[00:00] aaaaarghh... damn u xorg [00:01] http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education [00:01] check that out [00:01] its from someone doing a usb spin for edu materials, most kde [00:02] Nubae-laptop: what part? [00:02] whacha mean? [00:06] LaserJock: just thought itd be an interesting article [00:06] i talked to the guy involved and he was intrigued by edubuntu which he had strangely not heard of [00:21] Nubae-laptop: involved with what? [00:21] Nubae-laptop: that link is just a wiki page [00:31] http://pastebin.be/16413 [00:36] it was an email sent to the sugar list, talking about making a unified learning environment on a usb stick [00:36] something for everyone, not just kids 5-12 [00:37] also did u get my mail about the guy that wanted to package blender? [00:38] oh, the Fedora Education guys [00:38] I know them a bit [00:38] yeah right [00:38] yeah, i did get the email about blender [00:38] not sure what to think about it [00:38] me either, but though, if he wants to do it... its one less thing to worry about [00:39] or one more thing, depending on how u look at it :d [00:39] well yeah [00:40] if you're not familiar with Ubuntu processes getting Blender into Main will not be trivial [00:40] yeah but we have to start somewhere [00:41] but I understand u dont want to take on all the workload [00:41] i get that [00:46] well, certainly if people want to push for things that's awesome [00:47] hows the uni stuff going anyway? [00:56] oh, decent [00:56] lots to do [00:57] hopefully u've had some time to advance... [01:01] a little [01:01] had a lot of teaching to do [01:01] and my parents came for a visit [01:13] hi, all [01:18] * Nubae-laptop is about to throw his wacom cintiq tablet out the window... [01:19] heya nothingman [01:28] hey Ahmuck .. i'm just woken up..sorry [01:28] r u there? [01:28] yes [01:29] how's my problem? [01:29] i haven't try with the safe graphics mode [01:29] coz i fell a sleep..haha [01:29] at the keyboard i bet :) [01:30] but maybe i think it won't work too, coz the linux mint that already installed goes blank screen too [01:30] haha nope, on my bed of course..LOL..:) [01:32] there is a xorg repair option when you boot. when grub starts, u'll notice "esc" for grub menu, and then a repair option. this will allow you to repair xorg [01:32] which should set it to a safe graphics mode [01:32] owh [01:32] so i must press esc for entering safe graphics mode? [01:33] to get to a grub menu with options [01:33] is this about this? http://i34.tinypic.com/a1sns.jpg [01:34] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Common%20Boot%20Options ? [01:34] i don't really understand those..:( [01:35] yes [01:37] should i choose the recovery mode after pressing esc? [01:37] yes, and it will boot. it's the second option on the list [01:37] n what is the vga=771 for? [01:37] owh okay [01:39] eventually a menu will com up, with an option at the bottom, try to fix xorg, or xfix [01:39] okay.. [01:39] after that? [01:39] it starts to boot with the safe graphics mode? [01:40] it'll write a customized xorg and backup your current one. then it'll loop you back to the menu and you can select the first option, to resume a normal boot [01:41] * guntur_roxx is remembering... [01:41] :) [01:43] r u on the system that is borken? [01:43] yeah [01:43] it's my pc [01:43] now i'm using windows xp [01:43] ah, i thought you were working from another system [01:43] nope [01:43] so ur using wubi? [01:43] or dual boot? [01:43] using wubi [01:44] for linux mint [01:44] n after installation finished [01:44] ah, then that might be a different story. i've never used wubi [01:44] it does the same problem [01:44] nope [01:44] wait [01:44] before that [01:44] i do boot [01:44] from ubuntu 8.10 cd [01:44] then clicked "Install Ubuntu" [01:44] but after it finished loaded [01:44] it goes blank screen [01:45] * Ahmuck is confused now [01:45] that's the problem.. after that i tried to install linux mint too, i boot from cd, n there's the same problem [01:45] so first you tried wubi, then tried the live cd? [01:45] why don't we move to another channel [01:45] this channel is more for edubuntu [01:46] argh [01:46] join #Ahmuck [02:24] man I wish they would stick to some conventions at least... getting my wacom board to work was like having to relearn linux... [02:25] Evening all [02:45] no kidding [02:45] man u know before intrepid... most xorg based stuff just worked... now its tweaking for everything [02:46] which is why on my production ssytem i moved back to hardy this week === Ahmuck_Jr is now known as Ahmuck [03:15] god... I reverted to my old install of ubuntu (still intrepid, but with fewer backports) and the cintiq works perfectly [16:31] hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork [16:44] edubuntu 8.10 ? [16:45] can anyone help me? - hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork [16:47] lulemurfan_: I think the answer you got was that it would be easier with e recent version, like 8.04 LTS or 8.10 [16:47] my laptop won't accept it [16:47] lulemurfan_: the wifi drivers and network stack have seen a lot of work since 5.10 [16:47] is there anyway? [16:47] lulemurfan_: 5.10 is the _most_ recent version you can use? [16:48] yes [16:48] lulemurfan_: what's the problem with newer version? I don't think 5.10 is supported anymore [16:49] lulemurfan_: 6.04 was LTS, so it's still supported for a few more month [16:49] won't install proberly, the laptop as memory of about 128mb and hard drive space of about 3 gb [16:49] xubuntu with ltsp ... [16:50] lulemurfan_: hd space should be enough. For the memory, are you sure xubuntu on alternate install mode wouldn't install? [16:50] lspci to find out what wireless chip u have [16:50] which exubuntu shall i download [16:50] iirc, xubuntu requirements went to 256 in 8.10 [16:51] Ahmuck: do you think xubuntu 8.04 would install with 128mo ? [16:51] as i recall it installs in 128 [16:51] but one should really use 8.04 [16:52] for that small mem. [16:52] er, yes, what you said. i'm misreading [16:52] ok, i'll download that, then it should work [16:52] lulemurfan u need the alternate install [16:52] "You need 128 MB RAM to run the Live CD or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM at install time." that's for Xubuntu 8.04 [16:53] ok, i'll do that - thanks [16:53] Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM. [16:53] http://www.xubuntu.org/get strangely they also have the same requirements for xubuntu 8.10 [16:53] lulemurfan there are other options if you want something ubuntu flavored [16:53] loic-m: yes, but i've tried both [16:53] lulemurfan_ it depends if you have illimited bandwith, or if dl of a big iso is painful for you [16:54] lulemurfan one option is crunchbang [16:54] it uses openbox [16:54] but has the repository strenght of ubuntu [16:54] ok, will that be ok using wi-fi? [16:55] http://crunchbang.org/ [16:55] it's all ubuntu, just with different desktops [16:55] ok, i'll try that [16:56] http://crunchbanglinux.org/ [16:57] there is the "lite" version as well [16:57] but i'd recommend either crunchbang or xubuntu. some people like e for a desktop, and it is very fast, but it took me a while to get used to it coming from windows [16:58] the e version of ubuntu would be opengeu [16:58] http://opengeu.intilinux.com/Home.html [16:58] so now you have three choices :) [16:59] but i think you might enjoy crunchbang on that laptop. you may still need to work at getting the things working properly. btw, do u know what wireless chip you have? [16:59] i'm curious, why are you interetested in edubuntu? [17:01] * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan [17:04] LaserJock: how's school? [17:06] * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan_ [17:08] Ahmuck: ok [17:08] lulemurfan_: i'm using crunchbang now [17:09] LaserJock: u get ur masters yet? [17:09] I spent ~5 hrs solid teaching on Thursday [17:09] Ahmuck: no, I won't have a Masters [17:09] only PhD [17:19] anybody want to test Jaunty out? [17:20] i'll give it a shot [17:20] in a vm [17:21] or r u wanting a full blown test? [17:21] what's different about it? [17:21] just want to see if everything works [17:22] one of the problems we have is that we essentially release without having tested all the apps out [17:25] yes, untested apps make me grumpy, but testing apps makes me grumpy as well [17:25] when does jaunty get released? [17:25] what's the status for management utilties in edubuntu? [17:26] I tested tuxtype in a vm ;) [17:26] Ahmuck: Jaunty will be released in April [17:27] evening folks [17:27] Ahmuck: but we need testing pretty soon, we'll start freezing [17:27] loic-m: and how did that go? [17:27] loic-m: did you do a .desktop fix? [17:27] nubae: hola senor [17:27] * Ahmuck get's thaw thawmoto out [17:28] u know... I spent 6 hours trying to get my wacom cintiq pad working on intrepid yesterday... It had taken me 30 minutes under hardy [17:28] LaserJock https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxtype/+bug/293397 [17:28] Launchpad bug 293397 in tuxtype "no application menu entry" [Low,Confirmed] [17:28] and all because of stupid X's autoconfiguration screwing up yet again [17:28] nubae did you use the wiki guide? [17:28] ye [17:28] yes [17:28] nubae: yeah, I know what you mean [17:28] nubae: that's cause intrepid is now HAL rather than xorg.conf iirc [17:29] nubae - I've got a cintiq too, but haven't installed jaunty (except in a vm) [17:29] the problem was that the hal .fdi file for the cintiq pad is screwed [17:29] meaning, everything was screwed [17:29] iirc, jaunty is supposed to fall back to xorg.conf [17:29] nubae the .fdi doesn't allow pad anyway if you already use the pen [17:29] thank god! [17:30] nubae just configure in xorg.conf [17:30] well, I did like a millionn different things, and in the end, I ended up just doing it with specially modified wacom drivers [17:30] I wrote it up on my site [17:30] what should have been 5 minutes of work was 6 hours [17:30] sad sad [17:30] nubae the fdi file should still be there in jaunty, but it doesn't get in the way of the xorg.conf anyway [17:31] I deleted it just in case [17:31] and then it all worked [17:31] nubae: just write the right entries in xorg.conf, and should be ok [17:31] well the drivers from the repos were broken [17:31] heh, i tried that and am using a generic video drive, got tired of messing with it [17:31] nubae must say I also delete it just in case ... [17:32] iI had to use a special PPA to install [17:32] loic-m: so did tux type not need the icon in /usr/share/tuxtype/ as well? [17:32] loic-m: sometimes apps use it for an in-app icon [17:32] nubae did the repo drivers work for you in intrepid? [17:32] anyway, my point is about xorg and its autcrappy configuration [17:32] I had similar problems with my graphics card [17:32] and with my thin clients [17:33] just ridiculous+ [17:33] LaserJock I corrected the desktop file. I can do a grep for the string, but I didn't notice anything not in place [17:33] whoever came up with the idea that xorg.conf was no longer needed was a total baboon [17:33] LaserJock the icon was in debian/ so shouldn't be needed by the program [17:33] loic-m: oh [17:33] loic-m: the icon was in debian/ and they installed it to /usr/share/tuxtype?? [17:34] ah.... rant over... I feel better now :-) [17:34] nubae i can tell you who... just look in xorg mailing list for who proposed the .fdi file and advocated it on his blog [17:34] nubae: ur not the only one that feels that way [17:34] well essentially they tried to fix a working system [17:35] normally people don't like change, and if there is change, people expect it to be smooth [17:35] well, there was NO benefit to this change [17:35] non [17:35] sure there has [17:35] like? [17:35] LaserJock: Yes, the packaging is... really old (had trouble understanding the rules) [17:35] for a lot of people X just works [17:35] loic-m: yeah. Thanks for the fixing, I'll upload it soon [17:36] nubae there is a benefit, just that someone should have noticed it wouldn't work for wacom devices... [17:36] LaserJock: I don't know anyonw where they havent had to tweak x a little... just take a look at the ltsp mailing list and ull see what I mean [17:36] LaserJock thx [17:36] nubae: ok, but you're pointing to LTSP, which is very much a corner case [17:36] no its just another example [17:36] alongside properitary video card drivers [17:36] right, but it simplified a lot of stuff [17:37] and wacom tablets [17:37] there are certainly regressions [17:37] are all those users just no important? are we really that experminental? [17:37] no, not unimportant [17:37] my wacom tablet works, but if i have to redo xorg, it's essentially dead [17:37] it's just impossible to please everybody all the time [17:38] wacom tablets adn nvidia and ai cards are fairl aminstream [17:38] Ahmuck: problem is this is a cintiq tablet, the kind that is a screen too [17:38] thats why it totally messes with X [17:38] mine is wacom bamboo [17:38] well, it works sorta [17:38] the presure isn't right [17:38] yeah bamboo should auto work [17:38] and the erasure doesn't work [17:38] ah... except pressure of course [17:39] * LaserJock hates to think what nubae thinks of Ctrl-Alt-Backspace going away :-) [17:39] it is ? [17:40] yes [17:49] Btw, does anyone know how one goes to request short translations (like for a desktop file) in different languages? [17:50] loic-m: is the package in Main [17:50] ? [17:51] yes [17:51] I asked sistpoty why, he said it might be because it's used in edubuntu. I didn't check edubuntu dependencies though, but the package was like that already [17:52] LaserJock: were you talking about tuxtype or the question about desktop entry? [17:52] loic-m: the .desktop translation issue [17:53] I've got .desktop files for both main (tuxtype) and universe [17:54] the only one for main is tuxtype. No I think of it, maybe I shouldn't have used an [fr] entry since main packages have their translations in a separate pkg [17:55] yeah, we have Rosetta magic for Main packages [17:56] LaserJock but how do I get informed of the translations and get the .desktop file back to send upstream+Debian? [17:57] LaserJock: (since it was a new file I guess the [fr] lines aren't a pb. Also, french desktop entries can be... special) [17:57] loic-m: once the .desktop template is in Rosetta you can download the .po files and recreate the .desktop [17:58] I'll have to try that. And do you know what the process is for unuverse pkg? [17:59] well ... you might email ubuntu-translators [17:59] you might be able to manage the translation manually [17:59] For translations, I hate how most applications go from the English Name_desription to the French description_Name and you always spend hours trying to find the app you're looking for :( (Kubuntu program trads are better) [18:00] LaserJock: ubuntu-translators is a list where people from different language are able to provide translations? [18:00] loic-m: it's the general list for translators [18:01] loic-m: a "heah, can you email with your translation of ...." might work [18:01] loic-m: to have LP do it you might ask launchpad-users list [18:01] LaserJock: thanks a lot. I've been trying to find a solution like that for a few days [18:02] for an existing LP project you can upload a .pot of the .desktop and let translators do their thing, then download the .po files [18:02] but I know that the LP devs want to make .desktop translation specifically easier [18:02] Do they also use po files for simple lines in .desktop files? [18:03] po files [18:03] Launchpad works in po files [18:03] o.v.e.r.k.i.l.l. [18:03] that's part of the problem [18:03] you have to generate a .pot and then a script to go from .po to .desktop [18:03] I've done it a few times, but it's not so fun to maintain [18:04] LaserJock: and for man pages, if I translate a man page in french or get some translations, for pkg in universe, I just put the .po files in the pkg, no? [18:05] loic-m: I'm not sure [18:08] submit the .po files to the package maintainer iirc [18:09] LaserJock: ctrl alt backspace is going away!!? [18:11] Ahmuck: I am the pkg mainainer [18:13] If there's any doc on that, I'll be happy to read it, but the MOTU doc doesn't really address translation topics [18:13] wow, have u guys taken a look at diigo.com? [18:13] its an awsome tool for educators, teachers and students [18:13] nubae it's going away in default Xorg release, so it will be the same in most distributions [18:14] I guess X is just intent on making my life miserable... boy will it be fun in the LTSP labs without a alt, cntrl backspace [18:15] anyway... diigo.com [18:15] totally awsome... thats what facebook SHOULD be like [18:16] nubae: huh? an example, please? [18:16] have u loooked at the site? [18:16] I.e. you give a url which highlights a specific paragraph into a page? [18:17] loic-m: yes, generally for Universe we send people upstream [18:17] no its kind of a bad intro page [18:17] loic-m: since we don't have the lang-packs, etc. [18:17] take a look at this: http://groups.diigo.com/browse?cg_id=16 [18:17] nubae: yeah, there has been lots of discussion about ctrl-alt-backspace in the last few days [18:17] one has groups and communities of people either by subject or area, but for education based stuff there is really a lot [18:18] so u can create your own group for a particular education project there [18:18] nubae: upstream xorg has turned it off by default, but apparently there is a xorg.conf switch to turn it back on [18:18] then have people visit/bookmark/follow it [18:18] * alkisg is watching the diigo video intro... [18:19] welp.... then we know what I'll be doing [18:19] I'll tweet the instructions across the net [18:19] what's the purpose of swtiching it off? [18:19] :-) [18:19] Ahmuck: apparently people hit it accidentablly and lose data [18:19] *accidentally [18:19] yeah and maybe security [18:20] another step towards making ubuntu idiot proof, and more windows like... [18:20] or better said X in general [18:20] i don't have a real problem with it bieng windows like on the gui, but underneath is getting to be a problem [18:20] well, I don't know that I'd say idiot proff necessarily [18:21] i know they were looking at LUK [18:21] which i thought was great,b ut also had concerns about [18:21] LUK? [18:21] one of the people who it happens to is a kernel hacker and former Debian Project Leader ;-) [18:21] Linux Unified Kernel [18:21] wil run windows programs natively [18:22] we should be looking at microkernels [18:22] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Unified_Kernel [18:22] This kernel imports all the key features of the Windows operating system kernel into the Linux kernel to support both Linux and Windows applications and device drivers. [18:22] LaserJock: indeed, but knowing how to do that is still useful (since I can always translate at least in my language, and for "pet" packages it's interesting) [18:23] loic-m: yeah [18:23] Ahmuck: that sounds like a real mess [18:25] it sounds like wine on top of a linux kernel [18:25] customised kernel [18:26] LaserJock: did u take a look at diigo.com? [18:26] it's not wine. but it's coming. and rest assured if it does what it says it can, many distros will change [18:26] and if it comes down to supporting linux/windows i'll quite support for sure [18:27] it's user utopia [18:27] they have 2 sections for education and a collection of thousands of education related groups and projects [18:27] http://groups.diigo.com/groups/educators [18:27] there is an example [18:28] its the perfect place to put projects after they have been kinda accepted into brainstorm [18:28] nubae: I looked at it when i was looking for a good Google Notebook type app [18:28] nubae: it didn't seem very useful for me personally, but I can see how it could be good for education [18:28] well, I see the strength in its communities [18:29] yeah, I just wanted a place to put my stuff [18:29] not the note taking stuff... not interested in that, take a look at the link I sent and ull see what I mean [18:30] it would be a great way to recruit people for projects [18:30] yeah, I've just already got information overload and am trying to lower my amount of social networking :-) [18:30] manage them [18:30] right, but for anyone needing contacts [18:30] in education [18:30] we can send them here [18:31] there is more edu content there than I have seen anywhere else [18:31] with real authors that one can connect with [18:31] seems like the facebook for educational institutions [18:31] anyway, I signed up and intend to find out some more on how to get involved with communities [18:32] would be good for a resources page [18:32] I'll create an edubuntu link there if there isnt one already [18:32] well resources, people, communities [18:34] it synchs with delicious too for your bookmarks [18:34] so thats really neat [18:34] mhm [18:35] we just need to figure out how to deal with information overload [18:36] well... like all these sites, its selective [18:37] too many mailing lists, too many RSS feeds, too many sites, etc. [18:37] u can make your dashboard as simple or as complex as u like [18:37] but they're all really good [18:37] I dont agree... its actually very organised when u link them all together [18:37] for example... from my site, I syndicate through to the rest [18:37] my tweets to twitter, to identi.ca [18:37] right, but my problem is just too much coming at me [18:37] my bookmarks to delicious [18:38] it's like trying to drink from a firehose [18:38] concentrate on the outgoing ;-) [18:38] u are a producer [18:38] diarrhea? [18:38] but I'm not just a producer [18:38] drinking is incoming [18:38] well, when u have the time to consume? [18:38] I can spend 4 hrs/day just keeping up with what Ubuntu is doing [18:39] let alone upstreams, Debian, Education in general, etc. [18:39] there's just so much stuff flying at me [18:40] yeah I hear ya... so digest and let out a fine misty spray of quality bite sized info [18:40] ;-) [18:41] I actually enjoy the interlinkedness of it all... I have my identi.ca linked to my phone, which is linked to twitter, linked to facebook status, linked to my website, including diggs from digg [18:41] having the different technologies just makes it time consuming [18:42] no.... link em all up [18:42] yeah, I don't like all that stuff [18:42] then u just have one place to hit send and voila syndicated [18:42] I want to look at certain things at certain times [18:42] for instance, I use twitter and identica for different things [18:42] well that choice is always there [18:42] actually, so do I [18:43] though I link them when I advertise a blog [18:43] I love it... I think people havent seen have the potential out there with all these sites along side each other [18:44] with xmpp support in these apps, we are going to be able to do some might fun stuff [18:44] cross all communication streams [18:44] in the whakiest of ways [18:46] I get identi.ca's gtalk bot to tweet me [18:46] yeah, I turned that off [18:46] specially cause sugar bugsquad is a member there [18:46] so I get to see what comes through [18:46] I just have issues with just *too* much [18:46] seee... thats pretty neat use [18:47] although email works just as well :p [18:47] neat, yes [18:47] easy to get into trouble with, definately [18:47] trouble? [18:47] it's just so easy to get too much information [18:48] and you end up spending enormous amounts of time trying to digest information [18:48]