[00:00] <Nubae-laptop> aaaaarghh... damn u xorg
[00:01] <Nubae-laptop> http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education
[00:01] <Nubae-laptop> check that out
[00:01] <Nubae-laptop> its from someone doing a usb spin for edu materials, most kde
[00:02] <LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: what part?
[00:02] <Nubae-laptop> whacha mean?
[00:06] <Nubae-laptop> LaserJock: just thought itd be an interesting article
[00:06] <Nubae-laptop> i talked to the guy involved and he was intrigued by edubuntu which he had strangely not heard of
[00:21] <LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: involved with what?
[00:21] <LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: that link is just a wiki page
[00:31] <Nubae-laptop> http://pastebin.be/16413
[00:36] <Nubae-laptop> it was an email sent to the sugar list, talking about making a unified learning environment on a usb stick
[00:36] <Nubae-laptop> something for everyone, not just kids 5-12
[00:37] <Nubae-laptop> also did u get my mail about the guy that wanted to package blender?
[00:38] <LaserJock> oh, the Fedora Education guys
[00:38] <LaserJock> I know them a bit
[00:38] <Nubae-laptop> yeah right
[00:38] <LaserJock> yeah, i did get the email about blender
[00:38] <LaserJock> not sure what to think about it
[00:38] <Nubae-laptop> me either, but though, if he wants to do it... its one less thing to worry about
[00:39] <Nubae-laptop> or one more thing, depending on how u look at it :d
[00:39] <LaserJock> well yeah
[00:40] <LaserJock> if you're not familiar with Ubuntu processes getting Blender into Main will not be trivial
[00:40] <Nubae-laptop> yeah but we have to start somewhere
[00:41] <Nubae-laptop> but I understand u dont want to take on all the workload
[00:41] <Nubae-laptop> i get that
[00:46] <LaserJock> well, certainly if people want to push for things that's awesome
[00:47] <Nubae-laptop> hows the uni stuff going anyway?
[00:56] <LaserJock> oh, decent
[00:56] <LaserJock> lots to do
[00:57] <Nubae-laptop> hopefully u've had some time to advance...
[01:01] <LaserJock> a little
[01:01] <LaserJock> had a lot of teaching to do
[01:01] <LaserJock> and my parents came for a visit
[01:13] <nothingman> hi, all
[01:18]  * Nubae-laptop  is about to throw his wacom cintiq tablet out the window...
[01:19] <Meshezabeel> heya nothingman
[01:28] <guntur_roxx> hey Ahmuck .. i'm just woken up..sorry
[01:28] <guntur_roxx> r u there?
[01:28] <Ahmuck> yes
[01:29] <guntur_roxx> how's my problem?
[01:29] <guntur_roxx> i haven't try with the safe graphics mode
[01:29] <guntur_roxx> coz i fell a sleep..haha
[01:29] <Ahmuck> at the keyboard i bet :)
[01:30] <guntur_roxx> but maybe i think it won't work too, coz the linux mint that already installed goes blank screen too
[01:30] <guntur_roxx> haha nope, on my bed of course..LOL..:)
[01:32] <Ahmuck> there is a xorg repair option when you boot.  when grub starts, u'll notice "esc" for grub menu, and then a repair option.  this will allow you to repair xorg
[01:32] <Ahmuck> which should set it to a safe graphics mode
[01:32] <guntur_roxx> owh
[01:32] <guntur_roxx> so i must press esc for entering safe graphics mode?
[01:33] <Ahmuck> to get to a grub menu with options
[01:33] <guntur_roxx> is this about this? http://i34.tinypic.com/a1sns.jpg
[01:34] <guntur_roxx> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Common%20Boot%20Options ?
[01:34] <guntur_roxx> i don't really understand those..:(
[01:35] <Ahmuck> yes
[01:37] <guntur_roxx> should i choose the recovery mode after pressing esc?
[01:37] <Ahmuck> yes, and it will boot.  it's the second option on the list
[01:37] <guntur_roxx> n what is the vga=771 for?
[01:37] <guntur_roxx> owh okay
[01:39] <Ahmuck> eventually a menu will com up, with an option at the bottom, try to fix xorg, or xfix
[01:39] <guntur_roxx> okay..
[01:39] <guntur_roxx> after that?
[01:39] <guntur_roxx> it starts to boot with the safe graphics mode?
[01:40] <Ahmuck> it'll write a customized xorg and backup your current one.  then it'll loop you back to the menu and you can select the first option, to resume a normal boot
[01:41]  * guntur_roxx is remembering...
[01:41] <guntur_roxx> :)
[01:43] <Ahmuck> r u on the system that is borken?
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> yeah
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> it's my pc
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> now i'm using windows xp
[01:43] <Ahmuck> ah, i thought you were working from another system
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> nope
[01:43] <Ahmuck> so ur using wubi?
[01:43] <Ahmuck> or dual boot?
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> using wubi
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> for linux mint
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> n after installation finished
[01:44] <Ahmuck> ah, then that might be a different story.  i've never used wubi
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> it does the same problem
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> nope
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> wait
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> before that
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> i do boot
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> from ubuntu 8.10 cd
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> then clicked "Install Ubuntu"
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> but after it finished loaded
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> it goes blank screen
[01:45]  * Ahmuck is confused now
[01:45] <guntur_roxx> that's the problem.. after that i tried to install linux mint too, i boot from cd, n there's the same problem
[01:45] <Ahmuck> so first you tried wubi, then tried the live cd?
[01:45] <Ahmuck> why don't we move to another channel
[01:45] <Ahmuck> this channel is more for edubuntu
[01:46] <guntur_roxx> argh
[01:46] <Ahmuck> join #Ahmuck
[02:24] <Nubae-laptop> man I wish they would stick to some conventions at least... getting my wacom board to work was like having to relearn linux...
[02:25] <sbalneav> Evening all
[02:45] <Ahmuck_Jr> no kidding
[02:45] <Nubae-laptop> man u know before intrepid... most xorg based stuff just worked... now its tweaking for everything
[02:46] <Ahmuck_Jr> which is why on my production ssytem i moved back to hardy this week
[03:15] <nubae> god... I reverted to my old install of ubuntu (still intrepid, but with fewer backports) and the cintiq works perfectly
[16:31] <lulemurfan> hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork
[16:44] <Ahmuck> edubuntu 8.10 ?
[16:45] <lulemurfan_> can anyone help me? - hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork
[16:47] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: I think the answer you got was that it would be easier with e recent version, like 8.04 LTS or 8.10
[16:47] <lulemurfan_> my laptop won't accept it
[16:47] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: the wifi drivers and network stack have seen a lot of work since 5.10
[16:47] <lulemurfan_> is there anyway?
[16:47] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: 5.10 is the _most_ recent version you can use?
[16:48] <lulemurfan_> yes
[16:48] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: what's the problem with newer version? I don't think 5.10 is supported anymore
[16:49] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: 6.04 was LTS, so it's still supported for a few more month
[16:49] <lulemurfan_> won't install proberly, the laptop as memory of about 128mb and hard drive space of about 3 gb
[16:49] <Ahmuck> xubuntu with ltsp ...
[16:50] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: hd space should be enough. For the memory, are you sure xubuntu on alternate install mode wouldn't install?
[16:50] <Ahmuck> lspci to find out what wireless chip u have
[16:50] <lulemurfan_> which exubuntu shall i download
[16:50] <Ahmuck> iirc, xubuntu requirements went to 256 in 8.10
[16:51] <loic-m> Ahmuck: do you think xubuntu 8.04 would install with 128mo ?
[16:51] <Ahmuck> as i recall it installs in 128
[16:51] <Ahmuck> but one should really use 8.04
[16:52] <Ahmuck> for that small mem.
[16:52] <Ahmuck> er, yes, what you said.  i'm misreading
[16:52] <lulemurfan_> ok, i'll download that, then it should work
[16:52] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan u need the alternate install
[16:52] <loic-m> "You need 128 MB RAM to run the Live CD or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM at install time." that's for Xubuntu 8.04
[16:53] <lulemurfan_> ok, i'll do that - thanks
[16:53] <Ahmuck> Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM.
[16:53] <loic-m> http://www.xubuntu.org/get strangely they also have the same requirements for xubuntu 8.10
[16:53] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan there are other options if you want something ubuntu flavored
[16:53] <Ahmuck> loic-m: yes, but i've tried both
[16:53] <loic-m> lulemurfan_ it depends if you have illimited bandwith, or if dl of a big iso is painful for you
[16:54] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan one option is crunchbang
[16:54] <Ahmuck> it uses openbox
[16:54] <Ahmuck> but has the repository strenght of ubuntu
[16:54] <lulemurfan_> ok, will that be ok using wi-fi?
[16:55] <Ahmuck> http://crunchbang.org/
[16:55] <Ahmuck> it's all ubuntu, just with different desktops
[16:55] <lulemurfan_> ok, i'll try that
[16:56] <Ahmuck> http://crunchbanglinux.org/
[16:57] <Ahmuck> there is the "lite" version as well
[16:57] <Ahmuck> but i'd recommend either crunchbang or xubuntu.  some people like e for a desktop, and it is very fast, but it took me a while to get used to it coming from windows
[16:58] <Ahmuck> the e version of ubuntu would be opengeu
[16:58] <Ahmuck> http://opengeu.intilinux.com/Home.html
[16:58] <Ahmuck> so now you have three choices :)
[16:59] <Ahmuck> but i think you might enjoy crunchbang on that laptop.  you may still need to work at getting the things working properly.  btw, do u know what wireless chip you have?
[16:59] <Ahmuck> i'm curious, why are you interetested in edubuntu?
[17:01]  * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan
[17:04] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: how's school?
[17:06]  * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan_
[17:08] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: ok
[17:08] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan_: i'm using crunchbang now
[17:09] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: u get ur masters yet?
[17:09] <LaserJock> I spent ~5 hrs solid teaching on Thursday
[17:09] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: no, I won't have a Masters
[17:09] <LaserJock> only PhD
[17:19] <LaserJock> anybody want to test Jaunty out?
[17:20] <Ahmuck> i'll give it a shot
[17:20] <Ahmuck> in a vm
[17:21] <Ahmuck> or r u wanting a full blown test?
[17:21] <Ahmuck> what's different about it?
[17:21] <LaserJock> just want to see if everything works
[17:22] <LaserJock> one of the problems we have is that we essentially release without having tested all the apps out
[17:25] <Ahmuck> yes, untested apps make me grumpy, but testing apps makes me grumpy as well
[17:25] <Ahmuck> when does jaunty get released?
[17:25] <Ahmuck> what's the status for management utilties in edubuntu?
[17:26] <loic-m> I tested tuxtype in a vm ;)
[17:26] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: Jaunty will be released in April
[17:27] <nubae> evening folks
[17:27] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: but we need testing pretty soon, we'll start freezing
[17:27] <LaserJock> loic-m: and how did that go?
[17:27] <LaserJock> loic-m: did you do a .desktop fix?
[17:27] <LaserJock> nubae: hola senor
[17:27]  * Ahmuck get's thaw thawmoto out
[17:28] <nubae> u know... I spent 6 hours trying to get my wacom cintiq pad working on intrepid yesterday... It had taken me 30 minutes under hardy
[17:28] <loic-m> LaserJock https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxtype/+bug/293397
[17:28] <nubae> and all because of stupid X's autoconfiguration screwing up yet again
[17:28] <loic-m> nubae did you use the wiki guide?
[17:28] <nubae> ye
[17:28] <nubae> yes
[17:28] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah, I know what you mean
[17:28] <Ahmuck> nubae: that's cause intrepid is now HAL rather than xorg.conf iirc
[17:29] <loic-m> nubae - I've got a cintiq too, but haven't installed jaunty (except in a vm)
[17:29] <nubae> the problem was that the hal .fdi file for the cintiq pad is screwed
[17:29] <nubae> meaning, everything was screwed
[17:29] <Ahmuck> iirc, jaunty is supposed to fall back to xorg.conf
[17:29] <loic-m> nubae the .fdi doesn't allow pad anyway if you already use the pen
[17:29] <nubae> thank god!
[17:30] <loic-m> nubae just configure in xorg.conf
[17:30] <nubae> well, I did like a millionn different things, and in the end, I ended up just doing it with specially modified wacom drivers
[17:30] <nubae> I wrote it up on my site
[17:30] <nubae> what should have been 5 minutes of work was 6 hours
[17:30] <nubae> sad sad
[17:30] <loic-m> nubae the fdi file should still be there in jaunty, but it doesn't get in the way of the xorg.conf anyway
[17:31] <nubae> I deleted it just in case
[17:31] <nubae> and then it all worked
[17:31] <loic-m> nubae: just write the right entries in xorg.conf, and should be ok
[17:31] <nubae> well the drivers from the repos were broken
[17:31] <Ahmuck> heh, i tried that and am using a generic video drive, got tired of messing with it
[17:31] <loic-m> nubae must say I also delete it just in case ...
[17:32] <nubae> iI had to use a special PPA to install
[17:32] <LaserJock> loic-m: so did tux type not need the icon in /usr/share/tuxtype/ as well?
[17:32] <LaserJock> loic-m: sometimes apps use it for an in-app icon
[17:32] <loic-m> nubae did the repo drivers work for you in intrepid?
[17:32] <nubae> anyway, my point is about xorg and its autcrappy configuration
[17:32] <nubae> I had similar problems with my graphics card
[17:32] <nubae> and with my thin clients
[17:33] <nubae> just ridiculous+
[17:33] <loic-m> LaserJock I corrected the desktop file. I can do a grep for the string, but I didn't notice anything not in place
[17:33] <nubae> whoever came up with the idea that xorg.conf was no longer needed was a total baboon
[17:33] <loic-m> LaserJock the icon was in debian/ so shouldn't be needed by the program
[17:33] <LaserJock> loic-m: oh
[17:33] <LaserJock> loic-m: the icon was in debian/ and they installed it to /usr/share/tuxtype??
[17:34] <nubae> ah.... rant over... I feel better now :-)
[17:34] <loic-m> nubae i can tell you who... just look in xorg mailing list for who proposed the .fdi file and advocated it on his blog
[17:34] <Ahmuck> nubae: ur not the only one that feels that way
[17:34] <nubae> well essentially they tried to fix a working system
[17:35] <Ahmuck> normally people don't like change, and if there is change, people expect it to be smooth
[17:35] <nubae> well, there was NO benefit to this change
[17:35] <nubae> non
[17:35] <LaserJock> sure there has
[17:35] <nubae> like?
[17:35] <loic-m> LaserJock: Yes, the packaging is... really old (had trouble understanding the rules)
[17:35] <LaserJock> for a lot of people X just works
[17:35] <LaserJock> loic-m: yeah. Thanks for the fixing, I'll upload it soon
[17:36] <loic-m> nubae there is a benefit, just that someone should have noticed it wouldn't work for wacom devices...
[17:36] <nubae> LaserJock: I don't know anyonw where they havent had to tweak x a little... just take a look at the ltsp mailing list and ull see what I mean
[17:36] <loic-m> LaserJock thx
[17:36] <LaserJock> nubae: ok, but you're pointing to LTSP, which is very much a corner case
[17:36] <nubae> no its just another example
[17:36] <nubae> alongside properitary video card drivers
[17:36] <LaserJock> right, but it simplified a lot of stuff
[17:37] <nubae> and wacom tablets
[17:37] <LaserJock> there are certainly regressions
[17:37] <nubae> are all those users just no important? are we really that experminental?
[17:37] <LaserJock> no, not unimportant
[17:37] <Ahmuck> my wacom tablet works, but if i have to redo xorg, it's essentially dead
[17:37] <LaserJock> it's just impossible to please everybody all the time
[17:38] <Ahmuck> wacom tablets adn nvidia and ai cards are fairl aminstream
[17:38] <nubae> Ahmuck: problem is this is a cintiq tablet, the kind that is a screen too
[17:38] <nubae> thats why it totally messes with X
[17:38] <Ahmuck> mine is wacom bamboo
[17:38] <Ahmuck> well, it works sorta
[17:38] <Ahmuck> the presure isn't right
[17:38] <nubae> yeah bamboo should auto work
[17:38] <Ahmuck> and the erasure doesn't work
[17:38] <nubae> ah... except pressure of course
[17:39]  * LaserJock hates to think what nubae thinks of Ctrl-Alt-Backspace going away :-)
[17:39] <Ahmuck> it is ?
[17:40] <LaserJock> yes
[17:49] <loic-m> Btw, does anyone know how one goes to request short translations (like for a desktop file) in different languages?
[17:50] <LaserJock> loic-m: is the package in Main
[17:50] <LaserJock> ?
[17:51] <loic-m> yes
[17:51] <loic-m> I asked sistpoty why, he said it might be because it's used in edubuntu. I didn't check edubuntu dependencies though, but the package was like that already
[17:52] <loic-m> LaserJock: were you talking about tuxtype or the question about desktop entry?
[17:52] <LaserJock> loic-m: the .desktop translation issue
[17:53] <loic-m> I've got .desktop files for both main (tuxtype) and universe
[17:54] <loic-m> the only one for main is tuxtype. No I think of it, maybe I shouldn't have used an [fr] entry since main packages have their translations in a separate pkg
[17:55] <LaserJock> yeah, we have Rosetta magic for Main packages
[17:56] <loic-m> LaserJock but how do I get informed of the translations and get the .desktop file back to send upstream+Debian?
[17:57] <loic-m> LaserJock: (since it was a new file I guess the [fr] lines aren't a pb. Also, french desktop entries can be... special)
[17:57] <LaserJock> loic-m: once the .desktop template is in Rosetta you can download the .po files and recreate the .desktop
[17:58] <loic-m> I'll have to try that. And do you know what the process is for unuverse pkg?
[17:59] <LaserJock> well ... you might email ubuntu-translators
[17:59] <LaserJock> you might be able to manage the translation manually
[17:59] <loic-m> For translations, I hate how most applications go from the English Name_desription to the French description_Name and you always spend hours trying to find the app you're looking for :( (Kubuntu program trads are better)
[18:00] <loic-m> LaserJock: ubuntu-translators is a list where people from different language are able to provide translations?
[18:00] <LaserJock> loic-m: it's the general list for translators
[18:01] <LaserJock> loic-m:  a "heah, can you email with your translation of ...." might work
[18:01] <LaserJock> loic-m: to have LP do it you might ask launchpad-users list
[18:01] <loic-m> LaserJock: thanks a lot. I've been trying to find a solution like that for a few days
[18:02] <LaserJock> for an existing LP project you can upload a .pot of the .desktop and let translators do their thing, then download the .po files
[18:02] <LaserJock> but I know that the LP devs want to make .desktop translation specifically easier
[18:02] <loic-m> Do they also use po files for simple lines in .desktop files?
[18:03] <LaserJock> po files
[18:03] <LaserJock> Launchpad works in po files
[18:03] <loic-m> o.v.e.r.k.i.l.l.
[18:03] <LaserJock> that's part of the problem
[18:03] <LaserJock> you have to generate a  .pot and then a script to go from .po to .desktop
[18:03] <LaserJock> I've done it a few times, but it's not so fun to maintain
[18:04] <loic-m> LaserJock: and for man pages, if I translate a man page in french or get some translations, for pkg in universe, I just put the .po files in the pkg, no?
[18:05] <LaserJock> loic-m: I'm not sure
[18:08] <Ahmuck> submit the .po files to the package maintainer iirc
[18:09] <nubae> LaserJock: ctrl alt backspace is going away!!?
[18:11] <loic-m> Ahmuck: I am the pkg mainainer
[18:13] <loic-m> If there's any doc on that, I'll be happy to read it, but the MOTU doc doesn't really address translation topics
[18:13] <nubae> wow, have u guys taken a look at diigo.com?
[18:13] <nubae> its an awsome tool for educators, teachers and students
[18:13] <loic-m> nubae it's going away in default Xorg release, so it will be the same in most distributions
[18:14] <nubae> I guess X is just intent on making my life miserable... boy will it be fun in the LTSP labs without a alt, cntrl backspace
[18:15] <nubae> anyway... diigo.com
[18:15] <nubae> totally awsome... thats what facebook SHOULD be like
[18:16] <alkisg> nubae: huh? an example, please?
[18:16] <nubae> have u loooked at the site?
[18:16] <alkisg> I.e. you give a url which highlights a specific paragraph into a page?
[18:17] <LaserJock> loic-m: yes, generally for Universe we send people upstream
[18:17] <nubae> no its kind of a bad intro page
[18:17] <LaserJock> loic-m: since we don't have the lang-packs, etc.
[18:17] <nubae> take a look at this: http://groups.diigo.com/browse?cg_id=16
[18:17] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah, there has been lots of discussion about ctrl-alt-backspace in the last few days
[18:17] <nubae> one has groups and communities of people either by subject or area, but for education based stuff there is really a lot
[18:18] <nubae> so u can create your own group for a particular education project there
[18:18] <LaserJock> nubae: upstream xorg has turned it off by default, but apparently there is a xorg.conf switch to turn it back on
[18:18] <nubae> then have people visit/bookmark/follow it
[18:18]  * alkisg is watching the diigo video intro...
[18:19] <nubae> welp.... then we know what I'll be doing
[18:19] <nubae> I'll tweet the instructions across the net
[18:19] <Ahmuck> what's the purpose of swtiching it off?
[18:19] <nubae> :-)
[18:19] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: apparently people hit it accidentablly and lose data
[18:19] <LaserJock> *accidentally
[18:19] <nubae> yeah and maybe security
[18:20] <nubae> another step towards making ubuntu idiot proof, and more windows like...
[18:20] <nubae> or better said X in general
[18:20] <Ahmuck> i don't have a real problem with it bieng windows like on the gui, but underneath is getting to be a problem
[18:20] <LaserJock> well, I don't know that I'd say idiot proff necessarily
[18:21] <Ahmuck> i know they were looking at LUK
[18:21] <Ahmuck> which i thought was great,b ut also had concerns about
[18:21] <nubae> LUK?
[18:21] <LaserJock> one of the people who it happens to is a kernel hacker and former Debian Project Leader ;-)
[18:21] <Ahmuck> Linux Unified Kernel
[18:21] <Ahmuck> wil run windows programs natively
[18:22] <nubae> we should be looking at microkernels
[18:22] <Ahmuck> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Unified_Kernel
[18:22] <Ahmuck> This kernel imports all the key features of the Windows operating system kernel into the Linux kernel to support both Linux and Windows applications and device drivers.
[18:22] <loic-m> LaserJock: indeed, but knowing how to do that is still useful (since I can always translate at least in my language, and for "pet" packages it's interesting)
[18:23] <LaserJock> loic-m: yeah
[18:23] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: that sounds like a real mess
[18:25] <nubae> it sounds like wine on top of a linux kernel
[18:25] <nubae> customised kernel
[18:26] <nubae> LaserJock: did u take a look at diigo.com?
[18:26] <Ahmuck> it's not wine. but it's coming.  and rest assured if it does what it says it can, many distros will change
[18:26] <Ahmuck> and if it comes down to supporting linux/windows i'll quite support for sure
[18:27] <Ahmuck> it's user utopia
[18:27] <nubae> they have 2 sections for education and a collection of thousands of education related groups and projects
[18:27] <nubae> http://groups.diigo.com/groups/educators
[18:27] <nubae> there is an example
[18:28] <nubae> its the perfect place to put projects after they have been kinda accepted into brainstorm
[18:28] <LaserJock> nubae: I looked at it when i was looking for a good Google Notebook type app
[18:28] <LaserJock> nubae: it didn't seem very useful for me personally, but I can see how it could be good for education
[18:28] <nubae> well, I see the strength in its communities
[18:29] <LaserJock> yeah, I just wanted a place to put my stuff
[18:29] <nubae> not the note taking stuff... not interested in that, take a look at the link I sent and ull see what I mean
[18:30] <nubae> it would be a great way to recruit people for projects
[18:30] <LaserJock> yeah, I've just already got information overload and am trying to lower my amount of social networking :-)
[18:30] <nubae> manage them
[18:30] <nubae> right, but for anyone needing contacts
[18:30] <nubae> in education
[18:30] <nubae> we can send them here
[18:31] <nubae> there is more edu content there than I have seen anywhere else
[18:31] <nubae> with real authors that one can connect with
[18:31] <nubae> seems like the facebook for educational institutions
[18:31] <nubae> anyway, I signed up and intend to find out some more on how to get involved with communities
[18:32] <LaserJock> would be good for a resources page
[18:32] <nubae> I'll create an edubuntu link there if there isnt one already
[18:32] <nubae> well resources, people, communities
[18:34] <nubae> it synchs with delicious too for your bookmarks
[18:34] <nubae> so thats really neat
[18:34] <LaserJock> mhm
[18:35] <LaserJock> we just need to figure out how to deal with information overload
[18:36] <nubae> well... like all these sites, its selective
[18:37] <LaserJock> too many mailing lists, too many RSS feeds, too many sites, etc.
[18:37] <nubae> u can make your dashboard as simple or as complex as u like
[18:37] <LaserJock> but they're all really good
[18:37] <nubae> I dont agree... its actually very organised when u link them all together
[18:37] <nubae> for example... from my site, I syndicate through to the rest
[18:37] <nubae> my tweets to twitter, to identi.ca
[18:37] <LaserJock> right, but my problem is just too much coming at me
[18:37] <nubae> my bookmarks to delicious
[18:38] <LaserJock> it's like trying to drink from a firehose
[18:38] <nubae> concentrate on the outgoing ;-)
[18:38] <nubae> u are a producer
[18:38] <Ahmuck> diarrhea?
[18:38] <LaserJock> but I'm not just a producer
[18:38] <Ahmuck> drinking is incoming
[18:38] <nubae> well, when u have the time to consume?
[18:38] <LaserJock> I can spend 4 hrs/day just keeping up with what Ubuntu is doing
[18:39] <LaserJock> let alone upstreams, Debian, Education in general, etc.
[18:39] <LaserJock> there's just so much stuff flying at me
[18:40] <nubae> yeah I hear ya... so digest and let out a fine misty spray of quality bite sized info
[18:40] <nubae> ;-)
[18:41] <nubae> I actually enjoy the interlinkedness of it all... I have my identi.ca linked to my phone, which is linked to twitter, linked to facebook status, linked to my website, including diggs from digg
[18:41] <LaserJock> having the different technologies just makes it time consuming
[18:42] <nubae> no.... link em all up
[18:42] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't like all that stuff
[18:42] <nubae> then u just have one place to hit send and voila syndicated
[18:42] <LaserJock> I want to look at certain things at certain times
[18:42] <LaserJock> for instance, I use twitter and identica for different things
[18:42] <nubae> well that choice is always there
[18:42] <nubae> actually, so do I
[18:43] <nubae> though I link them when I advertise a blog
[18:43] <nubae> I love it... I think people havent seen have the potential out there with all these sites along side each other
[18:44] <nubae> with xmpp support in these apps, we are going to be able to do some might fun stuff
[18:44] <nubae> cross all communication streams
[18:44] <nubae> in the whakiest of ways
[18:46] <nubae> I get identi.ca's gtalk bot to tweet me
[18:46] <LaserJock> yeah, I turned that off
[18:46] <nubae> specially cause sugar bugsquad is a member there
[18:46] <nubae> so I get to see what comes through
[18:46] <LaserJock> I just have issues with just *too* much
[18:46] <nubae> seee... thats pretty neat use
[18:47] <nubae> although email works just as well :p
[18:47] <LaserJock> neat, yes
[18:47] <LaserJock> easy to get into trouble with, definately
[18:47] <nubae> trouble?
[18:47] <LaserJock> it's just so easy to get too much information
[18:48] <LaserJock> and you end up spending enormous amounts of time trying to digest information
[18:48] <nubae> well its about getting info in a different format, we still take in the same amount
[18:48] <nubae> just instead of TV and radio
[18:48] <nubae> its a tweet here and there
[18:49] <at0m|c> i dont feel the urge to know when people are tired or getting a beer
[18:49] <nubae> at0m|c: twitter rarely has that kind of info
[18:50] <nubae> depends on your contacts i suppose, but facebook is MUCH more time wasting
[18:50] <nubae> as is myspace etc
[18:50] <at0m|c> i just see that at friend's places... even them using it are annoyed by it eh
[18:50] <nubae> the new gen are better
[18:51] <at0m|c> yea guess all their contacts feel like the need to let everyone know most trivial things
[18:51] <at0m|c> s/the/they
[18:51] <nubae> it all depends how u use the technology..
[18:51] <nubae> like anything it can be used for good or bad
[18:51] <LaserJock> nubae: if it was the same amount it wouldn't be so bad
[18:51] <at0m|c> sure, i'm just not taking the risk :>
[18:52] <nubae> but say u have a blog or a website, and u want to get it marketed or promoted... these services are perfect for that
[18:52] <LaserJock> but I get lots and lots more informationn through these newer technologies
[18:52] <at0m|c> nubae, sure, for professionals that's different
[18:52] <LaserJock> microblogging alone can double the amount of time I spend dealing with things
[18:52] <at0m|c> but didn't like myspace start of as a musicians site to show off new material
[18:52] <nubae> come one, a microblog takes less than a minute to write
[18:53] <nubae> at0m|c: yes, but it sucked
[18:53] <nubae> the difference is the interconnectedness of all these new gen technologies
[18:53] <nubae> myspace was never collaborative in the same way
[18:54] <nubae> it was just a place for kids to experiment with filling out forms and seeing their writing online
[18:55] <nubae> LaserJock: hah! finally got a picture of u....
[18:55] <nubae> :-)
[18:55] <LaserJock> nubae: uh oh
[18:56] <LaserJock> nubae: I don't produce that much information
[18:56] <LaserJock> nubae: it's the reading and integrating that's so time consuming
[18:56] <nubae> yeah, I hear ya
[18:56] <nubae> I try and avoid that
[18:57] <LaserJock> so I can go through several hundred emails a day
[18:57] <LaserJock> similar amounts of dents and tweets
[18:57] <nubae> man... it would sure be a good time to build a nice data mining robot for people
[18:57] <LaserJock> something like 50 blog posts
[18:57] <nubae> yeah... have u thought about putting ads on your blog yet?
[18:57] <LaserJock> and then a lot of that stuff can require resposnes
[18:58] <nubae> yeah the responses are the bitch
[18:58] <nubae> but still, I'd rather have a responsive blog than one no one reads
[18:58] <LaserJock> nubae: I've thought about it some. My blogs are on wordpress.com right now, which doesn't let you do advertising so much
[18:59] <nubae> bah... so move to habari
[18:59] <nubae> far better anyway
[18:59] <LaserJock> moving around isn't trivial
[18:59] <nubae> the stats engine I have piwik, is the shiznit...
[18:59] <nubae> sure it is
[18:59] <nubae> u can export from wordpress to habari with button presses
[19:00] <LaserJock> right, but I'm hosted on wordpress.com so the URL would change
[19:00] <nubae> and habari is totally open and u can advertise as much as u want
[19:00] <nubae> plus plugins for adsense et all already exist
[19:00] <nubae> oh....
[19:00] <LaserJock> I can't afford to host my own blog generally
[19:00] <nubae> u have a wordpress url?
[19:00] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:01] <nubae> that kinda sucks, but guess u could redirect
[19:01] <LaserJock> I have a domain name, but wordpress.com handles getting dugg much much better ;-)
[19:01] <nubae> I pay I think it is 60$ for a virtual dedicated server
[19:01] <nubae> where I currently host 4 sites
[19:02] <nubae> the ltsp bot
[19:02] <LaserJock> yeah, I pay $0 and I'm not sure I can really afford to pay for hosting
[19:02] <nubae> and get a decent amount of traffic... and never have a problem...
[19:02] <stgraber> nubae: I pay 30$ for a dedicated server with 100Mbit/s unmettered internet :)
[19:03] <nubae> well, u have collaueges and friends
[19:03] <nubae> stgraber: lucky bastard :-)
[19:03] <stgraber> nope, that's a regular offer from an hosting company
[19:03] <nubae> stgraber: was talking to LaserJock
[19:03] <nubae> mentioning he could get free hosting from u or me for example
[19:03] <stgraber> hehe
[19:04] <LaserJock> well, I'm already doing that now, that's where I park laserjock.us
[19:04] <LaserJock> but one digg or slashdot can use the bandwidth pretty fast
[19:04] <nubae> mine is 100mb unlimited too
[19:04] <stgraber> I also have a spare DELL 750 (rackmount 1U) here, if someone wants to pay for the DC hosting :)
[19:05] <LaserJock> I've been wanting to do dreamhost for a while
[19:05] <nubae> although the other day my server ran out of ram during a digg spike
[19:05] <nubae> lol
[19:05] <LaserJock> but just haven't worked up to forking over the money for it
[19:05] <nubae> its of course nice to have your own machine, gives u piece of mind
[19:06] <LaserJock> for my work on *buntu it'd be nice to have a decent host for things
[19:06] <nubae> I had 2 dedicated ones before, debian boxes in Germany, but was paying $50 per month
[19:06] <stgraber> nubae: http://www.kimsufi.co.uk/ though it's better from the french website as the euro prices are lower
[19:06] <LaserJock> where I can run scripts, etc.
[19:07] <nubae> LaserJock: really, u should be allowed to do that at edubuntu.org
[19:07] <LaserJock> we're eventually supposed to be able to use people.ubuntu.com, but I'm not sure we're going to get cron access there
[19:07] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah, well, only a few Canonical people can get on edubuntu.org
[19:07] <stgraber> nubae: http://www.isgenug.de/ 25.99 here 19.99 on the french website :)
[19:08] <nubae> ironic seeing as no one actually works on the site :-)
[19:08] <nubae> I got mine from webtropia.com
[19:08] <LaserJock> after some machines got hacked into they tightened up a bit
[19:08] <LaserJock> I think most all machines are Canonical-only
[19:08] <stgraber> fun, they are doing root servers with Atom CPUs :)
[19:09] <stgraber> LaserJock: yeah, what's in DC is canonical-only for shell access, code access requires security review of all code uploaded
[19:09] <nubae> stgraber: those are root dedicated or virtual?
[19:10] <nubae> kimsufi
[19:10] <stgraber> root
[19:10] <nubae> ok, thats a really good deal then
[19:10] <stgraber> yeah
[19:10] <nubae> might change, I'm on godaddy right now
[19:10] <nubae> silly choice, but i had to pick something
[19:11] <LaserJock> I'm looking for like $5-$10/month :-)
[19:11] <LaserJock> can't get much that's decent
[19:11] <nubae> LaserJock: I'll gladly give u space and shell access to my server if u want it without payment
[19:12] <LaserJock> nubae: nah, that's ok
[19:13] <nubae> stgraber: funny thing is, a while back I told them it was strange I couldnt get onto port 6667 with my shell irc client, to which they responded
[19:13] <nubae> no we've blocked irc access
[19:13] <nubae> so I changed the port number and voila got through
[19:13] <stgraber> ovh blocks IRC as well but you can unlock it through the web UI
[19:13] <LaserJock> my school blogs 6667 only
[19:13] <nubae> scares me a little to think that they have such a limited sense of security
[19:13] <stgraber> it's to avoid worms using IRC for communication, you have to give the IRC server IPs and they'll unlock theme
[19:14] <stgraber> *them
[19:14] <stgraber> or just use IRC over SSL :)
[19:14] <nubae> if they knew I was not only running irc scripts, but a full time bot on there, I'm sure they'd freak
[19:14] <stgraber> or even connect on 6667 but using IPV6 (OVH/kimsufi provides a /64 native IPV6) that's unfiltered
[19:15] <nubae> yeah theres lots a of ways to get around
[19:15] <nubae> proxies too
[19:16] <nubae> like plugging gushing water holes with kleenex
[19:16] <stgraber> only thing they really don't like is P2P, I used to have a torrent client to seed Ubuntu .iso but they asked me to stop it ...
[19:17] <stgraber> now I just moved it to another dedicated server I manage in Germany :)
[19:17] <stgraber> (seeding 2TB or so of Ubuntu .iso / month)
[19:17] <nubae> yeah I ran rtorrent on my webtropia account, but the are known to turn a blind eye
[19:17] <LaserJock> well, I'm not a fan of P2P so I'd be ok without it ;-)
[19:17] <nubae> p2p is the only real way to us the full capacity of a 100mb line
[19:18] <LaserJock> it's always so darn slow for me I just don't bother
[19:18] <nubae> LaserJock: no private sites?
[19:18] <LaserJock> I think I've used a torrent maybe 5 times
[19:19] <nubae> what kinda stuff do u like, tv or films?
[19:19] <LaserJock> I've only ever done .isos
[19:19] <LaserJock> I don't watch TV or movies generally, no time
[19:19] <LaserJock> it's either work or Ubuntu
[19:20] <nubae> hmmm... how about knoweledge like manuals
[19:20] <nubae> docus, ebooks
[19:20] <nubae> self learning materials
[19:20] <LaserJock> never used them
[19:20] <LaserJock> ebooks that is
[19:20] <LaserJock> I've just never found a use for torrents
[19:25] <nubae> i tend to download tv shows since we cant get them at all in Europe
[19:25] <nubae> these private sites download at the maximum bandwidth so u have a series in a couple of minutes
[19:33] <nubae> stgraber: so did u say u have a host that wouldnt mind the use of rtorrent?
[19:36] <stgraber> nubae: yes, klein-edv.de as long as they don't receive complaint from the publisher :)
[19:38]  * LaserJock renames seeds yet again
[19:39] <nubae> heh, I doubt they'd know anything is even running, other than massive traffic spikes
[19:39] <nubae> rtorrent can encrypt its connections
[19:41] <nubae> ooof but they're not cheap
[19:41] <nubae> webtropia is cheaper
[19:43] <stgraber> indeed, klein is quite expensive :) but they provide gigabit over 7-8 different providers so that's hyper-fast :)
[19:43] <stgraber> and they don't really care what you're doing with your internet
[19:43] <stgraber> cheap hosters usually care because they are looking for a reason to break the contract :) (they don't like people using all the bandwidth)
[19:44] <nubae> heh yeah
[19:44] <nubae> Laserjock on twitter:   3     Following                          34     Followers
[19:45] <nubae> info hub u are
[19:46] <LaserJock> nubae: not so much, I stopped following people who were on identica
[19:46] <LaserJock> I was planning to use twitter for politics ;-)
[19:47] <LaserJock> since most of the FLOSS people don't appreciate my politics
[19:48] <nubae> lol
[19:48] <nubae> yeah I heard through the grapevine u were a right wing fascist :p
[19:48] <nubae> j/k....
[19:49] <LaserJock> right wing, yes
[19:49] <LaserJock> fascist, I don't *think* so at least ;-p
[19:49] <nubae> I was just kidding
[19:49] <nubae> bad European humour
[19:50] <nubae> its good though, so u split your tagged blogs and send them off in 2 directions
[19:51] <LaserJock> well, there's no reason to be obnoxious
[19:51] <LaserJock> but I want to be able to just talk without getting a bunch of hate mail every time
[19:51] <nubae> yeah was a bad thoughtless comment
[19:51] <LaserJock> that wasn't meant towards you
[19:52] <LaserJock> :-)
[19:52] <nubae> oh
[19:52] <nubae> :-)
[19:52] <LaserJock> I was saying "there's no reason why blogging needs to be obnoxious for people, so it's good to categorize if you're going to be controversial"
[19:52] <nubae> ah yes
[19:53] <nubae> thing is.... open source seems to kinda go with left wing politics
[19:53] <LaserJock> it does in general
[19:53] <LaserJock> so I try to provide a little balance without being annoying :-)
[19:53] <nubae> obama seems to be reneging on all his promises anyway
[19:54] <LaserJock> of course, he's a politician
[19:54] <nubae> yeah but he has such conviction with his change speeches
[19:54] <LaserJock> he's already running for 2012 elections
[19:55] <nubae> for once I wish they'd just do what they say they're going to instead of pretending they just found out a whole bunch of impossible obstacles
[22:20] <Ahmuck> oss is going to have to close in part to be mainstream.  how else would brother be able to snoop?
[22:23] <nubae> What to Britney Spears and Obama have in common?
[22:30] <LaserJock> nubae: what?
[22:35] <nubae> they both tweet about great changes that never happen
[22:35] <nubae> :p
[22:35] <nubae> i totally just made that up... just thought it was funny they both actually do use twitter
[22:38] <LaserJock> yeah, lots of politicians and famous people are on twitter
[22:38] <LaserJock> it's kinda odd
[22:41] <nubae> sheeple
[22:42] <nubae> problem with identi.ca is its name
[22:42] <LaserJock> anybody got any thoughts on the long descriptions for edubuntu-desktop?
[22:42] <nubae> twitter is just much more fun
[22:42] <nubae> long descriptions?
[22:43] <LaserJock> each package has a short and long description
[22:43] <LaserJock> the current long description isn't very descriptive
[22:43] <nubae> oh right
[22:44] <nubae> how man chars?
[22:44] <nubae> about a tweet in lenght?
[22:44] <nubae> :p
[22:44] <LaserJock> there's no limit really
[22:45] <nubae> hmm its hard to lengthen that out
[22:47] <nubae> the set of packages that makes up the educational addon applications known as edubuntu, which include applications for children from ages 4-9, teenagers frin 10-16, and young adults from 16-21
[22:47] <nubae> something like that?
[22:47] <LaserJock> right now it says "This package depends on all of the packages in the edubuntu desktop system"
[22:48] <LaserJock> hmm
[22:50] <nubae> no?
[22:51] <LaserJock> well, that spends a lot of time talking about ages, etc.
[22:52] <nubae> well thats important, to understand its split into age groups
[22:52] <nubae> we could take out the ages I guess
[22:52] <LaserJock> yeah, but that doesn't really do anything for edubuntu-desktop
[22:52] <nubae> and add somehting more
[22:53] <nubae> well its a metapackage, but we cant really say that
[22:53] <LaserJock> we can point to ubuntu-edu-*
[22:53] <nubae> how about what I wrote above and then inclusion of something like, it also includes the artwork, icons, and edubuntu color and style
[22:54] <nubae> I think I'm too tired to be giving good answers on that right now... didnt sleep at all last night, and its now 11.54 pm here
[22:54] <LaserJock> go to bed!
[22:54] <nubae> waiting for my classmate to upgrade... damn thing is slow as molasses
[22:55] <nubae> cant, have to finish a website too
[22:55] <nubae> I snowed myself under
[22:55] <nubae> also doesnt help Im an insomniac
[22:57] <nubae> http://twitter.com/strjstrjkyufk  <--- didnt take them long to start spamming twitter