| RAOF | Is anyone else having compiz problems with nvidia-180? Mine seems to corrupt all the GL transformed textures. | 01:31 |
|---|---|---|
| RAOF | Woah! Wobbly is *trippy*. | 01:31 |
| andersk | RAOF: I'm not (but now I almost wish I did :-P). | 01:32 |
| RAOF | I wonder if istanbul will capture it. It's truly nifty. | 01:33 |
| RAOF | o/` Istanbul is Constantinople / now it's Istanbul not Constantinople / been a long time gone / Constantinople o/` | 01:35 |
| RAOF | Well, that's disappointing. Istanbul captures nothing but noise. | 01:37 |
| RAOF | Mmm, temporary craziness. Gotta love it. | 01:39 |
| RAOF | Oh, even better. Combined with that 'large windows sometimes don't update' XDamage bug. Sweet. | 01:39 |
| bryce_ | tjaalton: what's your thoughts on UXA for jaunty? | 10:37 |
| bryce_ | I'm leery of it being still too unstable | 10:37 |
| tjaalton | yeah, and there's the alpha-channel corruption thing | 10:39 |
| tjaalton | and it crashes my X on resume | 10:39 |
| bryce_ | tjaalton: I'm wondering if we should revert -intel back to 2.4.x given how many people complain about the performance | 10:46 |
| bryce_ | tjaalton: what are your thoughts? | 10:46 |
| bryce_ | tjaalton: I'm wondering if we should revert -intel back to 2.4.x given how many people complain about the performance... your thoughts? | 14:38 |
| tjaalton | bryce_: the ddx driver doens't have much to do about it | 14:39 |
| bryce_ | tjaalton: mesa? | 14:44 |
| tjaalton | bryce_: xserver 1.6 depends on 7.3 | 14:44 |
| tjaalton | I think it would be silly to go back :) | 14:44 |
| bryce_ | tjaalton: then how to fix the performance issues? | 14:45 |
| tjaalton | re-enable patch 107.. | 14:45 |
| tjaalton | and give KDE users the finger ;) | 14:45 |
| bryce_ | we were seeing performance issues before that was dropped | 14:45 |
| bryce_ | ^weren't | 14:46 |
| jcristau | gem is probably responsible for at least some of the performance problems | 14:47 |
| desrt | Alexia_Death: you wrote a program that reads the serial port and injects events into the kernel input layer, or...? | 14:53 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: No. I made a dbus daemon that adds and removes wacom devices. | 14:53 |
| Alexia_Death | Why the question? | 14:54 |
| desrt | just wondering why my tablet isn't working and what needs to be done to make it happen out of the box | 14:54 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: Jaunty with all the latest updates? | 14:55 |
| desrt | downloaded alpha2 | 14:55 |
| Alexia_Death | And what tablet? | 14:55 |
| desrt | it's an x200 tablet | 14:55 |
| desrt | (lenovo) | 14:55 |
| desrt | the tablet shows in hal. complete with the 'input' and 'input.tablet' capabilities and "Wacom" appearing in the product string | 14:56 |
| Alexia_Death | Its a serial TabletPC device? | 14:56 |
| desrt | and the wacom fdi file is installed... | 14:56 |
| Alexia_Death | you have stylus then. | 14:56 |
| desrt | ya. the serial.device points at /dev/ttyS0 | 14:56 |
| desrt | i suppose so | 14:56 |
| desrt | when i hacked up xorg.conf to manually handle this i added stylus and eraser sections | 14:57 |
| Alexia_Death | For taplet pc X xonf is OK. | 14:57 |
| desrt | did you just try to tab-complete irc? | 14:57 |
| Alexia_Death | Your serial device is not going anywhere. | 14:57 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: ? | 14:58 |
| desrt | 'xonf' | 14:58 |
| Alexia_Death | conf | 14:58 |
| desrt | ah. right. | 14:58 |
| desrt | i was sort of thinking that it would be nice, though, to have it working for jaunty out of the box | 14:59 |
| desrt | like, if i go edit my xorg.conf, then it works for me | 14:59 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: as to making it work out of the box, HAL should take care of enabling the stylus | 14:59 |
| desrt | but anyone else who installs on a thinkpad ends up thinking 'ubuntu sucks' | 14:59 |
| Alexia_Death | So it works there. | 14:59 |
| Alexia_Death | My daemon can be used for per user conf | 14:59 |
| desrt | so perhaps i need to know a little more about how X deals with hal | 15:00 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: if you are aup for making a configuration utility for it then thats good enough | 15:00 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: its really simple. | 15:00 |
| tjaalton | desrt: didn't you say it works OOTB as a stylus? | 15:00 |
| desrt | no | 15:00 |
| desrt | nothing happens at all out of the box | 15:00 |
| desrt | i mean.. i can make some nice drumming noises, i guess... | 15:00 |
| tjaalton | then why does lshal show it? pastebin pleas | 15:01 |
| tjaalton | +e | 15:01 |
| desrt | but the cursor isn't moving :) | 15:01 |
| desrt | erm | 15:01 |
| desrt | that's going to take a little while. hold on :) | 15:01 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: HAL should be able to make the stylus move if it recognizes it. | 15:01 |
| desrt | right. | 15:01 |
| desrt | so that's what i found odd :) | 15:01 |
| Alexia_Death | that is a bug | 15:01 |
| desrt | good! | 15:01 |
| desrt | now we're getting somewhere :) | 15:02 |
| Alexia_Death | the limitation of HAL is that it can add just one device | 15:02 |
| Alexia_Death | So no eraser. | 15:02 |
| desrt | it seems sort of like X should work around that | 15:02 |
| Alexia_Death | you need the daemon for that. | 15:02 |
| jcristau | Alexia_Death: that's the part i don't understand | 15:02 |
| Alexia_Death | X does. with allowing DBUS conf. | 15:02 |
| desrt | like.. this "one physical device = one XInput device" is an incorrect assumption in X, clearly | 15:02 |
| desrt | hmm | 15:03 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: Its an incorrect assumotion in HAL not X | 15:03 |
| jcristau | Alexia_Death: if the driver gets loaded, then it can add the other devices as it pleases | 15:03 |
| Alexia_Death | And hall people have said they wont fix it. | 15:03 |
| desrt | Alexia_Death: how is HAL to know? | 15:03 |
| jcristau | so no need for a daemon or dbus or anything? | 15:03 |
| Alexia_Death | jcristau: Im not a driver developer | 15:03 |
| Alexia_Death | I knw how I can do it now. | 15:04 |
| desrt | i could buy a brand new pen | 15:04 |
| jcristau | meh. nobody is. | 15:04 |
| desrt | and bring it near my laptop | 15:04 |
| Alexia_Death | Besides, I think its smart to keep that out of the drver | 15:04 |
| desrt | are you saying HAL should create a new device node for it when that happens? | 15:04 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: pen is not the device | 15:04 |
| Alexia_Death | device is the surface | 15:04 |
| desrt | absolutely agree | 15:04 |
| Alexia_Death | that supports pens and erasers | 15:04 |
| desrt | there is only one surface | 15:04 |
| Alexia_Death | HAL can only give you support for pen | 15:05 |
| desrt | supposedly i can use airbrushes and all sorts of other fancy stuff with this... | 15:05 |
| desrt | any wacom device | 15:05 |
| Alexia_Death | And like I said, Ive talked to HAL people about it. | 15:05 |
| Alexia_Death | airbrush is a kind of pen | 15:05 |
| Alexia_Death | IIRc. | 15:05 |
| desrt | but i would expect it to show as a separate xinput device | 15:05 |
| Alexia_Death | serials are used for that I think | 15:06 |
| Alexia_Death | That support is iffi. | 15:06 |
| Alexia_Death | I have to go for now. | 15:06 |
| desrt | k. | 15:06 |
| Alexia_Death | Ill be back in a little later. | 15:06 |
| tjaalton | the product mapping could live inside the driver, and initialize the devices it supports | 15:06 |
| desrt | i'll boot up the live cd again and get lshal | 15:06 |
| tjaalton | so yes, no daemon needed | 15:06 |
| desrt | tjaalton: that's sort of what i was thinking | 15:07 |
| Alexia_Death | tjaalton: DAemon is still needed fpr per user configuration | 15:07 |
| desrt | seems like it should be sufficient for hal to say "there's a wacom serial device here" | 15:07 |
| jcristau | Alexia_Death: why? | 15:07 |
| Alexia_Death | You dont expect all users to live with default conf do you. | 15:07 |
| desrt | and for X to create as many Xinput devices as are required from it | 15:07 |
| tjaalton | Alexia_Death: wacom should just support input properties, then the settings could live in .xsession or gconf or .. | 15:07 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: thats in the domain of wacom development. Talk to ping about it. | 15:08 |
| desrt | tjaalton: you'd need something to bridge the settings over, in that case | 15:08 |
| Alexia_Death | tjaalton: tablet properties need a UI and easy way to change. | 15:08 |
| jcristau | desrt: that's called a desktop environment | 15:08 |
| desrt | like gnome-settings-daemon or whatever | 15:08 |
| Alexia_Death | its not a set once thing. | 15:08 |
| desrt | jcristau: ya. exactly. | 15:08 |
| tjaalton | Alexia_Death: yes, but the gui should be provided by the DE (in the long run, we discussed this already :) | 15:09 |
| Alexia_Death | Nice dreams guys | 15:10 |
| tjaalton | hehe | 15:10 |
| Alexia_Death | But its not happening dor jaunty | 15:10 |
| tjaalton | no | 15:10 |
| Alexia_Death | what i do works now | 15:10 |
| jcristau | the ui is completely unrelated to how you pass those properties to the driver.. | 15:10 |
| desrt | this seems to be sort of similar to how gnome configures the keyboard layout and stuff | 15:11 |
| desrt | someone just needs to teach it about tablets :) | 15:11 |
| desrt | Alexia_Death: do you have a link to the stuff you wrote? | 15:12 |
| desrt | lshal -> http://pastebin.com/m49dbb4ad | 15:12 |
| tjaalton | desrt: ok, then Xorg.0.log | 15:12 |
| desrt | tjaalton: no mention of the word "wacom" anywhere in there | 15:13 |
| tjaalton | sure is | 15:13 |
| desrt | sure isn't | 15:13 |
| tjaalton | lines 318-333 | 15:13 |
| desrt | in the Xorg.log i mean | 15:13 |
| tjaalton | ah | 15:13 |
| tjaalton | was this on jaunty? | 15:13 |
| desrt | jaunty alpha 2 livecd | 15:13 |
| tjaalton | ancient! :) | 15:14 |
| desrt | :) | 15:14 |
| tjaalton | still, I'd like to see it | 15:14 |
| desrt | ok | 15:14 |
| desrt | gimme a sec | 15:14 |
| tjaalton | I'm surprised that hal picked that up | 15:14 |
| desrt | http://pastebin.com/mf39b2d0 | 15:15 |
| tjaalton | (WW) config/hal: no driver or path specified for /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pnp_WACf004 | 15:15 |
| desrt | ahah | 15:15 |
| desrt | good catch :) | 15:15 |
| desrt | thing about that is that i have this /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/20thirdparty/10-wacom.fdi | 15:16 |
| tjaalton | from the wacom driver | 15:16 |
| desrt | it says that if input.caps contains "input" and product contains "Wacom" then input.x11_driver is set to "wacom" | 15:17 |
| desrt | and indeed, in the lshal output: | 15:17 |
| desrt | input.x11_driver = 'wacom' (string) | 15:17 |
| desrt | input.x11_options.Type = 'stylus' (string) | 15:17 |
| desrt | for udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pnp_WACf004' | 15:17 |
| tjaalton | yes, but I think they should be for /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pnp_WACf004_serial_platform_0 | 15:18 |
| tjaalton | also the capabilities | 15:18 |
| tjaalton | that way the driver would be assigned for it | 15:18 |
| desrt | the one that has the linux.device_file | 15:19 |
| tjaalton | either kernel or hal boog | 15:19 |
| tjaalton | depends where info.capabilities is coming from.. | 15:19 |
| desrt | could also argue that it's an X bug for not querying subdevices to find ports | 15:20 |
| desrt | and, as these things go, i guess probably there -will- be an argument about that :) | 15:20 |
| tjaalton | well, if it would list the capabilities for the subdevice, it'd just work | 15:20 |
| tjaalton | you can do test that by not matching info.cap.. | 15:21 |
| tjaalton | -do | 15:21 |
| desrt | ya. i believe that it would work. | 15:21 |
| desrt | it's also not quite right, though | 15:21 |
| tjaalton | at least it should be confirmed, so that it's not something else | 15:21 |
| desrt | because then it will assign the x11 driver to both nodes | 15:21 |
| tjaalton | that's not a problem | 15:21 |
| tjaalton | it'll fail to use it for the first one | 15:22 |
| desrt | i know it's not a problem... X will just say "dur... dunno what to do, so i ignore" | 15:22 |
| desrt | but that's not right | 15:22 |
| desrt | seb128: this is why i switched to fedora! | 15:22 |
| seb128 | desrt: good for you! | 15:22 |
| desrt | damn X hackers breaking my tablet :p | 15:22 |
| desrt | (or hal hackers...) | 15:22 |
| tjaalton | whot has done the same already, so you lose :) | 15:23 |
| desrt | ya. i noticed. | 15:23 |
| LLStarks | yo. | 15:23 |
| LLStarks | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1058915 | 15:23 |
| LLStarks | hopefully i can get a nice tester pool for you guys | 15:23 |
| desrt | X guys need to have a talk with HAL guys, i think | 15:24 |
| desrt | and figure out what the correct thing to be doing here is | 15:24 |
| desrt | any workaround done at the vendor level in the meantime will be more or less at the "quick hack" level... | 15:24 |
| tjaalton | hal is just the messenger I guess | 15:24 |
| desrt | which is like, half of making a distribution anyway :) | 15:24 |
| jcristau | desrt: you know, you could send a mail to hal@ today, and get that fixed :) | 15:25 |
| tjaalton | right, hal is full of quirks | 15:25 |
| tjaalton | hal-info | 15:25 |
| tjaalton | desrt: but you should try removing the other match rule to see if it would work then | 15:26 |
| desrt | i'll just bug david on irc :p | 15:27 |
| desrt | it's actually really hard for me to check if adding that match rule would make it work | 15:27 |
| desrt | so i'm gonna hal-set-property instead | 15:28 |
| desrt | did you guys add nozap? | 15:29 |
| desrt | didn't fix it | 15:31 |
| desrt | i think X doesn't even look at the subdevice at all | 15:31 |
| desrt | i'm gonna try adding the linux device path to the parent node instead | 15:31 |
| tjaalton | you need to restart hal | 15:31 |
| desrt | i used hal-set-property | 15:31 |
| tjaalton | oh | 15:31 |
| desrt | i can't really make changes and restart... i'm running off of a livecd :) | 15:32 |
| tjaalton | sure you can | 15:32 |
| tjaalton | the console is right there | 15:32 |
| tjaalton | if it works | 15:32 |
| desrt | still no love | 15:33 |
| * desrt wonders what xorg log will have to say now | 15:33 | |
| tjaalton | don't bother, just pastebin it ;) | 15:34 |
| desrt | still "no driver or path" even when i specify the serial path | 15:34 |
| tjaalton | there should be two entries for them | 15:34 |
| tjaalton | ? | 15:34 |
| desrt | i think X doesn't bother visiting the second one | 15:35 |
| desrt | possibly because it doesn't have the input capability on it | 15:35 |
| desrt | lemme try adding that | 15:35 |
| jcristau | X just looks for input.x11_driver | 15:35 |
| jcristau | afaik | 15:35 |
| desrt | well, it has that | 15:35 |
| desrt | i'll try adding the cap | 15:35 |
| jcristau | then it's missing input.device | 15:36 |
| tjaalton | oooh, right | 15:36 |
| tjaalton | it's looking more and more like a hal bug :) | 15:37 |
| tjaalton | it doesn't seem to handle serial devices too well | 15:37 |
| desrt | ahh | 15:38 |
| desrt | X looks for input.device key? | 15:38 |
| jcristau | yes | 15:38 |
| desrt | can that be a serial device instead of an evdev? | 15:38 |
| jcristau | maybe not | 15:39 |
| tjaalton | try :) | 15:39 |
| desrt | i got X to notice the second device node by adding the input capability, btw | 15:39 |
| desrt | but it still fails due to no input.device :) | 15:39 |
| desrt | wtf | 15:40 |
| desrt | well | 15:40 |
| desrt | something happened? | 15:40 |
| desrt | after so many X server restarts X decided that i was bored of looking at brown | 15:40 |
| desrt | and put a nice purple pattern on my screen | 15:40 |
| desrt | lovely as it is, i can't read anything anymore and my system appears to have crashed | 15:41 |
| desrt | i guess this can't be blamed on HAL bug :) | 15:41 |
| tjaalton | so no console anymore? | 15:41 |
| desrt | nah. completely dead | 15:41 |
| desrt | my caps lock was flashing. that's usually a bad sign. | 15:42 |
| tjaalton | ok | 15:42 |
| desrt | probably some weird race in the video driver or something | 15:42 |
| desrt | and after so many restarts i finally hit it | 15:42 |
| tjaalton | a feature in the drm driver | 15:42 |
| tjaalton | or so | 15:42 |
| desrt | yes. feature. | 15:42 |
| desrt | "you've seen too much brown. how about some lovely purple?" | 15:42 |
| tjaalton | how did you kill the server? | 15:43 |
| desrt | either the ubuntu livecd boot has gotten one hell of a lot faster or my new laptop is cooler than i thought | 15:43 |
| desrt | i logged out | 15:43 |
| tjaalton | ok | 15:43 |
| desrt | i think you guys enabled nozap | 15:43 |
| tjaalton | no, upstream | 15:43 |
| desrt | ah | 15:43 |
| desrt | that is my preferred way of restarting X :) | 15:43 |
| desrt | s/is/was/ i guess | 15:44 |
| tjaalton | still there to be enabled if you wish | 15:44 |
| tjaalton | just not on by default | 15:44 |
| desrt | erm | 15:45 |
| desrt | ok. this is odd. | 15:45 |
| desrt | it's doing it again | 15:45 |
| desrt | this is the second time, now, that it has happened immediately after me adding input.device | 15:45 |
| desrt | i'm starting to suspect causation | 15:45 |
| desrt | i have no idea how that would work, though | 15:46 |
| desrt | but no capslock flash this time | 15:46 |
| desrt | maybe X has changed the video mode, but not put anything on the screen | 15:48 |
| desrt | then it goes to open the device and crashes | 15:48 |
| desrt | so i see the uninitialised screen -- purple | 15:48 |
| desrt | whereas had it gotten past opening the device, it would have gotten to the part where it puts non-purple stuff on the screen | 15:48 |
| tjaalton | dunno | 15:51 |
| desrt | i'm gonna try starting X under gdb over ssh | 15:51 |
| desrt | fecking network manager. nm-applet appears to tear down the wifi when you take down X | 15:53 |
| desrt | grrr | 15:53 |
| * desrt stops caring for now and tries to get some real work done instead | 15:54 | |
| desrt | maybe later :) | 15:54 |
| tjaalton | sure :) | 15:54 |
| Alexia_Death | desrt: http://a.death.pri.ee/watahod-0.4.1.tar.gz bonuspointd for figuring out without handholding how to use it. | 16:03 |
| LLStarks|Bored | hi. quick question. is there a reason why restarting x has been made impossible for laptops without a dedicated sysrq key? | 16:03 |
| bryce_ | LLStarks, because people accidentally hit the key combo and it kills their x. sysrq has little to do with it | 16:05 |
| tjaalton | LLStarks|Bored: try printscreen | 16:06 |
| jcristau | 'impossible'. heh. | 16:06 |
| jcristau | sudo killall Xorg still works :) | 16:06 |
| Alexia_Death | bryce_: its intentional that I cant kill my X with ctrl alt backspace? Awww... its such a usefull combo | 16:11 |
| tjaalton | Alexia_Death: sure you can, it's just not enabled by default | 16:12 |
| Alexia_Death | no clue how to enable it:P | 16:13 |
| jcristau | reading docs is hard | 16:13 |
| bryce_ | Alexia_Death: read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/ | 16:14 |
| Alexia_Death | jcristau: figuring out if its a bioug ora feature that it does not work is hard:P | 16:15 |
| jcristau | Alexia_Death: fair enough | 16:16 |
| Alexia_Death | :) | 16:18 |
| jcristau | maybe i should add that in NEWS.Debian so i at least can beat people with that stick :) | 16:19 |
| tjaalton | heh | 16:20 |
| _MMA_ | In Jaunty, what nvidia driver should one use for a GeForce 6 series card? | 16:45 |
| superm1 | _MMA_, jockey isn't ready in jaunty yet, but you will probably need nvidia-glx-180 or nvidia-glx-177 | 16:58 |
| _MMA_ | superm1: Ok. I think I got -180 installed and I *still* (since Edgy) cant get my proper res back on the HTPC. So I'm thinking I need to use a legacy driver or something. | 17:00 |
| superm1 | _MMA_, i would recommend holding off until jockey is ready. it will be able to tell you what driver you are supposed to be using | 17:00 |
| superm1 | resolutions are detected via the EDID of your television set generally | 17:01 |
| tjaalton | hmm so -180 supports the 6-series.. which means -177 should probably be dropped | 17:01 |
| _MMA_ | superm1: And that's when my problems started. ;) My modline no longer worked. :) | 17:02 |
| superm1 | _MMA_, if you have a bad TV EDID there are methods to add modelines. You'll have to read the NV readme on their website for the exact options to let you do it though | 17:03 |
| _MMA_ | superm1: Hell with it. I'll just stick with windows on the box 'till I build a new one. I've really put out tons posts and read alot to try to solve this. Gonna be easier to just buy new stuff. | 17:05 |
| superm1 | _MMA_, the problem is most likely your TV set if the EDID is bad. I'd check for TV firmware updates before you scrap all this | 17:05 |
| tjaalton | and not get nvidia this time?-) | 17:05 |
| superm1 | tjaalton, TV's with bad EDID's don't handle so well with any of the drivers from what i've seen.... | 17:06 |
| _MMA_ | tjaalton: Well they still work better than ATI. :) | 17:07 |
| _MMA_ | And I'm unsure if Intel can do 1080p. Still gotta look at that. | 17:07 |
| superm1 | at least for the moment the hardware acceleration you get out of NVIDIA drivers for XvMC and libvdpau and what not makes them more attractive generally for HTPC's. | 17:08 |
| superm1 | until Intel supports VA-API that will probably be the case | 17:08 |
| tjaalton | oh well, I'm happy to not need the craphics card (pun intended) on my htpc at all | 17:08 |
| _MMA_ | superm1: Any of the jaunty players using XvMC and libvdpau now? | 17:14 |
| superm1 | _MMA_, mythtv trunk does. we may or may not be uploading it to jaunty though. it's living in a PPA until upstream blesses it | 17:20 |
| superm1 | _MMA_, I dont think ffmpeg is getting uploaded with the support until jaunty+1, so the rest of the apps will follow that | 17:21 |
| _MMA_ | superm1: Ok. Maybe one day, I'll get this all sorted out. I can't even find a soundcard that works with SPDIF right. I have one, but have only had it work correctly once. | 17:22 |
| * _MMA_ shrugs. | 17:22 | |
| LLStarks | note to self. holding down printscreen for 1 second yields 100 prompts. | 18:48 |
| LLStarks | alt+printscreen as well. | 18:49 |
| LLStarks | i can't access sysreq from this inspiron. | 18:49 |
| LLStarks | and if i can't restart x on a whim, i'll be sad | 18:49 |
| LLStarks | also, i want to punch the google earth devs for having atmosphere on by default. | 18:52 |
| LLStarks | i know it sounds hypocritical with regard to my stance on uxa, but jeez. | 18:52 |
| tjaalton | does alt+prtscr+h work from the console? | 19:03 |
| tjaalton | should print out the hotkeys that work | 19:03 |
| === maxb_ is now known as maxb | ||
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