[00:00] <Tonio_> what is impressive with kde4 is the beautifullness of it
[00:00] <astromme> Hmm, well the next LTS is still quite far off
[00:00] <Tonio_> most people are just asking me (lots of gnomists at work...)
[00:00] <Tonio_> I did you tweak to get that ?
[00:00] <Tonio_> "bah this is just kde4 defaults, without any tweaking :)"
[00:00] <Tonio_> "really ??????????????????????????"
[00:00] <astromme> I honestly think that Jaunty will be the release where I can resonably expect a non-linux/non-kde expert to work with his system, configure his system, be happy with his system, and think it's beautiful at the same time.
[00:00] <Tonio_> that's so good to ear, hehe
[00:01] <Tonio_> astromme: needs to be a lot more stable
[00:01] <astromme> You've still got some months
[00:01] <Tonio_> astromme: current desktop stability is not even as good as vista
[00:01] <Tonio_> can't be compared to gnome
[00:01] <astromme> And it helps big time to send backtraces
[00:01] <Tonio_> or osx
[00:01] <Tonio_> or windows xp
[00:01] <Tonio_> not big bugs, but lots of little ones
[00:01] <Tonio_> that's the problem with it right now
[00:02] <astromme> Honestly (imho) the only way that stability will come is by distros testing and sending problem reports (including bt, etc) upstream.
[00:02] <Tonio_> astromme: yeah :) also the full plasma+dbus stuff makes it very difficult to backtrace for a lambda user....
[00:02] <astromme> Because not only is it hard for developers to find every corner case, it's also not "as fun" to just sit for months looking for bugs to fix
[00:03] <Tonio_> astromme: debuging is probably more complicated for non developers with kde4...
[00:03] <astromme> True
[00:03] <astromme> Well, for plasma at least. For other things I think it's just as it was before
[00:03] <Tonio_> astromme: for apps it's just apps
[00:04] <Tonio_> for plasmoids, that's different
[00:04] <Tonio_> you can't just strace a process and look for the segfault....
[00:04] <Tonio_> maybe a plasma monitor somehow would be usefull in the future to help reporting bugs
[00:05] <Tonio_> next big app we miss is a good and complete video player and also k3b.... then we're done feature compliant with kde3...
[00:06] <Tonio_> I think strueg is planing to polish k3b.... which sounds good
[00:06] <astromme> Eh, I find vlc good enough for my needs
[00:07] <astromme> and dragonplayer is there if you want the kde goodness with kio, etc
[00:07] <Tonio_> astromme: yeah, but not well desktop integrated
[00:07] <Tonio_> and doesn't make use of phonon
[00:07] <Tonio_> but phonon can use vlc so....... :)
[00:07] <Tonio_> astromme: kaffeine was more than just a video player
[00:07] <Tonio_> dvd player on the run too....
[00:07] <Tonio_> that, we miss right now
[00:09] <Tonio_> time to sleep here, see you tomorrow :)
[00:12] <astromme> Dragonplayer is a dvd player.... Dragonplayer is a video player, network video player. I'm confused as to what's important that it lacks and kaffiene had (I know Tonio_ left, just putting my comments out there)
[00:23] <JontheEchidna> opensuse has a flash installation prompt patch too
[00:23] <JontheEchidna> rgreening may be interested
[00:40] <ScottK> JontheEchidna or vorian: kopete-cryptography never got uploaded. It's in universe so ...
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: so it needs updating?
[01:36] <knusperfrosch> segmentationfault on pyqt4 from the ppa with pyexpat: http://dpaste.com/116387/
[01:43] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I assume it got released with the rest of extra-gear, but didn't get uploaded because it need kdepim-dev
[01:43] <ScottK> Which we didn't have until today.
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> oh, I think vorian was working on that one (or at least not me :P)
[01:45] <ScottK> JontheEchidna or vorian or nhandler or any other motu ....  I've got KDE well along to building on lpia and started on armel.  I'd appreciate it if someone would trigger retries on the universe plasmoids and such on lpia.   We should have enough built now.
[01:45] <JontheEchidna> ok
[01:47] <ScottK> Thanks.
[01:48] <ScottK> I'm working through the extragear list now.
[01:48] <seele> LDN sure likes to pick up on my stuff.. although this time around it is pretty good
[01:48] <seele> http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/blog-entry/will-jackalope-finally-turn-kubuntu-around
[01:49] <ScottK> Nobody did guidance-power-manager either.
[01:49]  * ScottK looks for smarter ....
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: oh, well I just retried rsibreak since it has rdepend on libplasma3
[01:49] <seele> good for kubuntu that is, not good for me, heh
[01:50] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: rsibreak isn't extreagear.
[01:50] <ScottK> extra even
[01:50] <JontheEchidna> oh, right
[01:51]  * JontheEchidna mumbes about konqueror being unstable
[01:51] <ScottK> My immediate reaction to his article isn't printable.
[01:54] <seele> oh come on.. in the end it is a positive outlook for kubuntu. adept and translations are unarguable weaknesses of intrepid *and* we are switching to kpackagekit which seems to be what people want
[01:57] <JontheEchidna> translations should be back to hardy levels, I think
[02:05] <ScottK> seele: I think the entire meme about 4.1 being unusable is complete crap.
[02:05] <ScottK> "Oh dear, I can't have two rows on the taskbar, it's a friggin' unusable disaster".
[02:06] <ScottK> Actually my printable response is sounds like you want Debian Lenny.
[02:06] <ScottK> Which is fine, but don't bitch at us for not being Debian.
[02:06] <Tm_T> ScottK: it looks different than the old one -> it's unusable (;)
[02:07] <ScottK> Plus I have limited patience from people who neither pay for this stuff nor help make it work.
[02:07] <Tm_T> ScottK: aye, useless bitching is, well, useless, AND bitching
[02:08] <seele> debian is useless.. i get more questions about why stuff is broken in kde because of debian packaging than i do for ubuntu
[02:08] <Tm_T> ScottK: I usually challenge people to help, if they don't then I go and silence them usually
[02:08] <ScottK> Debian is old.
[02:08] <ScottK> If you want a stable, well tested boring desktop, it's great.
[02:09] <ScottK> I don't put up with useless whining from my kids and I don't appreciate it from strangers any more.
[02:09]  * Tm_T huggles ScottK 
[02:09] <Tm_T> we old and grumpy <3
[02:10] <ScottK> Just will the motrin to kick in faster so my headache goes away ...
[02:11] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: btw, most plasmoids seem to have built on armel
[02:11] <ScottK> OK.
[02:11] <ScottK> They probably built against 4.1.96 then
[02:11] <ScottK> Urgh.
[02:11] <JontheEchidna> eek
[02:12] <ScottK> It'd be worth a check to see if they build-dep on 4.2.0
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> iirc most don't
[02:17] <ScottK> We can fix it with the next upload or something.  I doubt we'll get enough lpia usage to matter.
[02:18]  * ScottK notes that kpovmodeler says vorian on it and it says uploaded, but it's not.
[02:19] <JontheEchidna> with any luck there won't be an abi break for a while now that 4.2 has been released with libplasma in kdelibs
[02:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Up for a bit of extragear packaging?
[02:19] <JontheEchidna> need to finish these rebuilds
[02:19] <JontheEchidna> almost done
[02:19] <ScottK> Looks like guidance-power-manager, kpovmodeler, and kopete-cryptography all need updating
[02:19] <ScottK> Great.
[02:22]  * ScottK notes that there now exists a failed build for kdebindings on hppa, so maybe PAS got fixed (Soyuz failed to know to build it at all before).
[02:23] <vorian> ScottK: whoopsie, let me take care of that
[02:23] <JontheEchidna> done with universe plasmoids
[02:23] <vorian> ScottK: with my power outtage issue, i wasn't able to complete it
[02:23] <ScottK> OK.
[02:24]  * ScottK wonders why it was marked uploaded then ....
[02:24] <ScottK> Oh well, let's move on.
[02:24] <JontheEchidna> so, g-p-m?
[02:24] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: So guidance-power-manager and kopete-cryptography are wanting doing.
[02:24] <ScottK> Yeah.
[02:35] <ScottK> Looks like we'll pick up two more working archictectures this week.  That's good.
[02:35] <JontheEchidna> oh?
[02:36] <ScottK> As in working on KDE, not new to the archive
[02:36] <ScottK> lpia is making good progress and kde4libs is moving along on armel.
[02:37] <ScottK> Now is someone would just update other ports kernels, we'd be in business.
[02:38] <ScottK> is/if
[02:38] <vorian> ScottK: http://machine-crusade.net/kpov/ if you please :)
[02:39]  * ScottK grabs
[02:47] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: do you happen to know which guidance patches can be removed?
[02:48] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: No.  Usually those get pushed upstream right away, but no idea.
[02:48] <JontheEchidna> ok, thanks
[02:49]  * ScottK voted to remove it completely, but Riddell said no.  
[02:49]  * ScottK has erased his brain of all he knew about guidance
[02:49] <JontheEchidna> looks like all of them can go \o/
[02:50] <JontheEchidna> rm -rf debian/patches is so satisfying
[02:50] <ScottK> ;-)
[02:50] <ScottK> The uninstallable count for lpia went down by about half already.
[02:50] <nhandler> ScottK and JontheEchidna: Do you still need retries for the plasmoids?
[02:50] <JontheEchidna> nhandler: I think I got them all
[02:51] <nhandler> Ok JontheEchidna
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> kopete-cryptography still needs updating though
[02:52]  * nhandler is pretty worthless right now. His main laptop won't charge, so he is using a live cd
[02:52] <JontheEchidna> ouch
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> wow, guidance is a nice quick compile
[02:55] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Tell me about it. I don't feel like spending money to fix it, so I'll probably just get a new laptop
[02:56] <vorian> kopete-crypto uploaded
[02:58]  * vorian just purchased some major upgrades to his desktop
[02:58] <ScottK> vorian: I just remembered I can't upload kpovmodeler right now anyway due to the freeze.
[02:58] <vorian> ah, good point
[02:58] <vorian> ScottK: at least its ready for fridayish
[02:59]  * ScottK will upload after the Alpha milestone.  Please check and make sure I don't forget.
[02:59] <ScottK> Yep.
[02:59] <vorian> will do
[03:01] <JontheEchidna> guidance-power-manager uploaded
[03:02] <vorian> JontheEchidna: it's still main, yes?
[03:02] <JontheEchidna> nope, demoted
[03:03] <vorian> excellent, at least it's not dropped
[03:03] <JontheEchidna> I also synced the bzr branch
[03:04] <nhandler> I just saw a message on identi.ca about someone looking for help with the KDE Mexico website. I thought I might as well pass it along to this channel.
[03:14]  * ScottK was hoping for dropped.
[03:36]  * ScottK wonders what vorian thinks about the impressive results from his kopete-cryptography upload?
[03:38] <claydoh> now we are a KDE4 cult :
[03:38] <claydoh> http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3101189.msg168245#msg168245
[03:38] <claydoh> lmao
[03:38] <vorian> what in the world ...
[03:39] <ScottK> claydoh: Did you see my ping about future release notes?
[03:41] <claydoh> um, nope
[03:42]  * claydoh doesn't see it
[03:43]  * claydoh is tempted to either completely ignore forum crap posts or stop frequenting/moderating them at all
[03:44] <ScottK> It's just as well I don't have an account there as the trouble of registering is enough to keep me off that thread.
[03:45]  * claydoh could get you in lol
[03:45] <claydoh> endless sameness endless junk
[03:46] <ScottK> I almost never look at forums and whenever I do my blood pressure goes up and I'm unhappy.
[03:46] <ScottK> Then I don't repeat the experience for awhile.
[03:47]  * claydoh has high blood pressure for real, and it makes me boil
[03:47] <claydoh> getting harder to keep my cool, and not be a 'fanboi'
[03:48] <ScottK> Do me a favor and post something that says if you want KDE3, Lenny is that way --->
[03:48] <claydoh> oh well not dwelling on that, got more KDE4 Kult work to do :)
[03:48] <claydoh> ScottK: already done by one of the regs
[03:49] <ScottK> OK.
[03:49]  * ScottK stares at kdepim and figures our why Soyuz thinks kdepim-dev in uninstallable.
[03:51] <dtchen> well that's cute. the latest plasma-n-m upload in jaunty doesn't seem to display anything unless it's attempting to associate ;)
[03:52] <dtchen> plasmoid-n-m*
[03:55] <ScottK> To quote what the kubuntu desktop seed comments say about hal, "it's not very polished but it's the future".
[03:56] <ScottK> dtchen: Knm is still there, just doesn't autostart ... just in case .
[04:02] <ScottK> Looks like it's Soyuz being brain dead about provides again.
[04:04] <ScottK> vorian: The answer to why that failed is Soyuz not liking provides I'm pretty sure and kdenetwork needs the libboost transition done to it.
[04:04] <ScottK> Since I'm pretty sure that doesn't affect anything in Main, it'll have to wait I think.
[04:07] <ScottK> Oh damn.  I do have an account on kubuntuforums.
[04:12]  * ScottK reads his reply and considers if he should report himself to the moderators.
[04:22]  * claydoh goes and bans ScottK s he has Tha Powa
[04:22] <EagleScreen> i cannot build kdesudo package from the source package
[04:23] <EagleScreen> see http://pastebin.ca/1326882
[04:23] <claydoh> ScottK: don't get sucked into the quagmire like I did
[04:24] <ScottK> It'll be fun for a bit.
[04:24] <EagleScreen> http://pastebin.ca/1326883
[04:25] <ScottK> EagleScreen: Install quilt.
[04:27] <ScottK> claydoh: Can you shine me up with some kind of developer tag or whatever it is you all have on the kubuntu forums?
[04:28] <EagleScreen> thanks that fixed this problem
[04:28] <ScottK> EagleScreen: Would you like to know how you could have figured that out yourself?
[04:28] <EagleScreen> yes, sure
[04:29] <ScottK> The error says you're missing a file called patchsys-quilt.mk
[04:29] <EagleScreen> yes
[04:29] <EagleScreen> looking for in dpkg?
[04:30] <nhandler> ScottK: Someone should really create a wiki page that explains some common things to look for in build logs and how to resolve them.
[04:30] <ScottK> Go to packages.ubuntu.com and use "Search the contents of packages" and search for that filename.
[04:30] <ScottK> EagleScreen: You'll see the search results tell you that file is in the package quilt.
[04:31] <ScottK> nhandler: Go for it.  Glad you volunteered.
[04:31] <EagleScreen> i can remember tha there is a command to do that
[04:31] <ScottK> You'll remember packages.ubuntu.com more easily though.
[04:33] <EagleScreen> yes, it is more easily
[04:33] <EagleScreen> but less quickly
[04:34] <ScottK> Honestly I can never rember the other way.  I just use p.u.c.
[04:35] <ScottK> OK.  kdewebdev-kde4 needs boost stuff too.
[04:35] <nhandler> scottk: I might actually write it up. It isn't like I can do much else right now
[04:35] <ScottK> More documentation is better.
[04:36] <ScottK> Once you get it drafted, you might also then do a MOTU School session on it.
[04:37] <nhandler> ScottK: Good idea. Maybe I can make up for not giving a session at open week or dev week
[04:38]  * ScottK doesn't see it as making up required.  Volunteer as you will.
[04:47] <obsidian> Strange problem - kdebase source package does not build
[04:47] <obsidian> apt-get source kdebase, debuild binary fails.
[04:48] <obsidian> patching file apps/kfind/kfind.desktop
[04:48] <obsidian> Hunk #1 FAILED at 81.
[04:48] <obsidian> on the package's internal diff??
[04:48] <obsidian> this seems very wrong to me. Have never been unable to build a deb before.
[04:48] <obsidian> This is on intrepid...
[04:52] <ScottK> Which version?
[04:54] <obsidian> 8.10
[04:54] <ScottK> Which version of KDE?
[04:54] <obsidian> kdebase-4.1.3
[04:54] <obsidian> kde4.1 as is currently shipping in intrepid
[04:55] <ScottK> Obviously it built once.
[04:55] <ScottK> Did you try it once, have a problem, then try again?
[04:55] <ScottK> obsidian: ^^
[04:55] <obsidian> no
[04:55] <obsidian> i mean
[04:55] <obsidian> i have tried many times, many ways
[04:56] <obsidian> have a friend here with me
[04:56] <obsidian> repro'd problem on 2 intrepid machines
[04:56]  * ScottK tries.
[04:56] <obsidian> build many debs from sources so many obvious things ( build-essential etc) are all there already
[04:56] <obsidian> thank you for trying
[04:56] <obsidian> for me it's just apt-get source kdebase
[04:56] <obsidian> cd kdebase-4.1.3
[04:56] <obsidian> debuild binary
[04:56] <obsidian> and it bombs
[04:56] <obsidian> which freaks me out
[04:56] <ScottK> I'm going to guess you tried more than once and it's either a bad patch or a buggy clean rule.
[04:57] <obsidian> bad patc
[04:57] <obsidian> Applying patch kubuntu_04_hide_kfind.diff
[04:57] <obsidian> Hunk #1 FAILED at 81.
[04:57] <obsidian> but how is that possible?
[04:57] <obsidian> isn't packaging automated?
[05:03] <obsidian> were you able to reproduce it?
[05:03] <obsidian> skottk?
[05:04] <obsidian> scottk?
[05:04] <ScottK> Not yet
[05:04] <obsidian> ah,
[05:04] <obsidian> ok
[05:04] <ScottK> My laptop is kind of slammed with another build and I'm set up to work on Jaunty packages ....
[05:04] <obsidian> :D
[05:05] <obsidian> we are trying to put together a patch
[05:05] <obsidian> but can't test it cause can't build kdebase  :(
[05:06] <ScottK> I can't seem to get the build-deps right at the moment.
[05:07] <obsidian> hmm
[05:07] <obsidian> not sure I understand
[05:07] <ScottK> I've got 4.1.4 installed.
[05:07] <obsidian> k
[05:07] <ScottK> And so I'm having a problem unrelated to yours.
[05:07] <obsidian> i c
[05:08] <ScottK> My recommendation is download the package again from the archive in a new directory.
[05:08] <ScottK> Then without making any changes to that one try to build it.
[05:08] <obsidian> we do that every time, unfortunately
[05:08]  * ScottK considers another way
[05:08] <obsidian> this is pristine, apt-get source kdebase
[05:09] <obsidian> cd kdebase-4.1.3
[05:09] <obsidian> debuild binary
[05:09]  * obsidian shrugs apology
[05:10] <obsidian> and i wipe it all and start over with each new attempt
[05:10] <obsidian> i have jaunty in a vm
[05:10] <obsidian> it's booting up
[05:11] <obsidian> curious to see if I can repro it there.
[05:13] <ScottK> Getting the build-deps in a clean chroot now.
[05:13] <obsidian> :D
[05:19] <ScottK> obsidian: Worked fine here.
[05:19]  * obsidian eyes widen
[05:19] <obsidian> trade computers?  ;)
[05:20] <obsidian> i guess we have the jinx over here
[05:20] <obsidian> 2 diff. intrepid systems, both have it fail
[05:20] <obsidian> same error
[05:20] <ScottK> What is the exact error again?
[05:20] <ScottK> And how are you starting the build?
[05:20] <obsidian> ready for a copy paste?
[05:20] <obsidian> I say
[05:20] <obsidian> apt-get source kdebase
[05:20] <obsidian> cd kdebase-4.1.3
[05:20] <obsidian> debuild binary
[05:20] <obsidian> and I get (after some preamble):
[05:20] <obsidian> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/obsidian/Projects/kde/kdebase-4.1.3'
[05:21] <obsidian> cd . && QUILT_PATCHES=/home/obsidian/Projects/kde/kdebase-4.1.3/debian/patches quilt --quiltrc /dev/null push -a || test $? = 2
[05:21] <obsidian> Applying patch kubuntu_04_hide_kfind.diff
[05:21] <obsidian> patching file apps/kfind/kfind.desktop
[05:21] <obsidian> Hunk #1 FAILED at 81.
[05:21] <obsidian> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file apps/kfind/kfind.desktop
[05:21] <obsidian> Patch kubuntu_04_hide_kfind.diff does not apply (enforce with -f)
[05:21] <obsidian> make: *** [debian/stamp-patched] Error 1
[05:21] <obsidian> debuild: fatal error at line 1305:
[05:21] <obsidian> couldn't exec debian/rules:
[05:21] <ScottK> Just debuild.
[05:21] <obsidian> just debuild binary
[05:21] <ScottK> Let it build the source package too.
[05:22] <obsidian> ...
[05:22] <obsidian> it is the source package?
[05:22] <obsidian> ok just debuild you say?
[05:22] <obsidian> no binary argument?
[05:23] <ScottK> If I do debuild binary I can replicate it.
[05:23] <obsidian> ahhhh
[05:23] <obsidian> ok so just "debuild"
[05:23] <ScottK> if you do debuild and build both it'll work.
[05:23] <obsidian> fascinating
[05:23]  * obsidian is trying it
[05:23] <rgreening> ScottK: hi
[05:24] <ScottK> Heya rgreening.
[05:24] <obsidian> hey so why have i never had htis problem before?
[05:24] <rgreening> konversation kde4 seems to work dandy
[05:25] <obsidian> I build lots & lots of pkgs this way
[05:25] <obsidian> or by debian/rules binary
[05:25] <obsidian> 1st time it failed.
[05:25] <obsidian> yeah that worked btw
[05:25] <obsidian> THANK YOU!
[05:25] <obsidian> :D
[05:27] <ScottK> When you call debuild binary you're telling it to run a specific part of debian/rules.  That's (as you know) not what you want.
[05:27] <ScottK> obsidian: You're welcome.
[05:28] <ScottK> obsidian: If you want to just build the binary it's -b or -B (I don't recall).  See man dpkg-buildpackage.
[05:28] <obsidian> I clearly am still climbing the deb learning curve  :)
[05:28] <ScottK> No problem.  Glad I could help.
[05:28] <obsidian> our patch will fix kde3 applications that run on kde4
[05:29] <obsidian> currently none of them can succesfully integrate with konqueror or help, or other things
[05:29] <obsidian> they all throw an error when attempting to launch them
[05:29] <obsidian> there's an open issue or two on this
[05:29] <enodo> ScottK: I am here with obsidian
[05:29] <enodo> Here is the bug we're talking about
[05:29] <obsidian> :D
[05:29] <enodo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/120006
[05:30] <ScottK> Well Amarok in Jaunty is Amarok2, so not a problem.
[05:30] <obsidian> right but there are still other kde3 apps
[05:30] <ScottK> OK.
[05:30] <obsidian> and anything in them that launches a browser, help, even bug reporting will fail ;)
[05:30] <enodo> I actually discovered this problem in digiKam
[05:31] <ScottK> That'll also be a KDE4 version in Jaunty.
[05:31] <obsidian> and he figured out the fix, too   :)
[05:31] <ScottK> Great.
[05:31] <enodo> So I heard
[05:31] <obsidian> I was just trying (feebly) to help get a fix into a patch that might be useful  :)
[05:31] <ScottK> If it's not a technically risk patch, I can see the benifit.
[05:31] <ScottK> risk/risky
[05:32] <enodo> All it is is to create a symlink
[05:32] <enodo> From /usr/share/applications/kde4/kfmclient*
[05:32] <ScottK> You might do better to work on the 4.2 packages in kubuntu-experimental.  Those are very close to what we have in Jaunty right now.
[05:32] <enodo> to /usr/share/applications/kde/
[05:32] <obsidian> these patches can probably be applied even there.
[05:32] <obsidian> very simple.
[05:32] <obsidian> one to kdelibs, one to kdebase
[05:33] <obsidian> few lines
[05:33] <obsidian> would be curious to get your thoughts
[05:33] <obsidian> let's see if this  builds, then open an issue and you can read it
[05:33] <ScottK> I won't argue it.  It's very late here and I'm quite tired.
[05:33] <obsidian> us too :D
[05:34] <obsidian> if we open it on kdebase/kdelibs will you see it?
[05:34] <obsidian> or if not I'll also paste the link here
[05:34] <obsidian> later when we finish it
[05:37] <ScottK> I won't and I'm not the best person to review it anyway.  You can subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug after you attach the fix.
[05:38] <obsidian> thank you for the advice
[05:39] <ScottK> You're welcome.  Thank you for working to make Kubuntu better.
[05:40] <obsidian> Aw, this was work?
[05:40] <obsidian> I thought we were just having fun  :D
[05:40] <obsidian> have a good night man  :)
[05:40] <ScottK> Well that's true of almost all of us.
[05:40] <ScottK> There's only one paid dev on Kubuntu.
[05:41] <ScottK> The rest of us are here for fun.
[05:41] <obsidian> right on.
[05:44] <ScottK> rgreening: I got all but three KDE core packages built or queued for lpia.
[05:44] <ScottK> So by tomorrow we ought to be good on lpia almost all the way around (actually it's 4)
[05:45] <ScottK> Need to upload the boost changes for kdenetwork before that'll build.
[05:45] <ScottK> That has to wait until after the Alpha.
[05:48] <ScottK> Riddell: kpovmodeler is in Main and on the DVD, but recommends package in multiverse.  It looks to me like it will have to be moved ....
[05:48] <ScottK> Good night all.  I'm off to bed.
[05:49] <enodo> good night!
[08:01] <Riddell> ScottK: hmm, that shouldn't be like that
[08:20] <mrvanes> Is it by-design that knetworkmanager no longer starts automagically after logon?
[08:21] <mrvanes> Jaunty/4.2.0 btw
[08:22] <Riddell> yes, to encourage testing of plasmoid-network-manager [Dmr	
[08:30] <mrvanes> Riddell: ok, started thinking I was crazy ;)
[08:30] <mrvanes> Riddell: I'll give plasmoid-network-manager a try then
[08:35] <jussi01> so is there a current kpackage kit ppa for intrepid?
[08:37] <Mamarok> Riddell: hi,  btw, Pastebin widget works now, with pastebin.com
[08:38] <Mamarok> still have problems with folderview for remote folders though
[08:38] <Tonio_> hi there
[08:38]  * Tonio_ tracks a strange kmail bug fedora doesn't have with kde4
[09:44] <Riddell> ScottK: backports view on bug 325221 ?
[10:06] <Ebdomos> Hey there, I made some artwork for a kde application (kdenlive), what would be a good license for it?
[10:07] <Ebdomos> I heard some creative commons licenses are not compatible with gpl
[10:07] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: if you don't mind, going with the upstream project licence is probably the best and easiest way :)
[10:08] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: in any case BSD like licence avoids any kind of issue :)
[10:08] <Ebdomos> thanks
[10:08] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: and for my own, I usually use the WTFPL licence
[10:08] <Ebdomos> oh gosh
[10:09] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: same as bsd, but without anything complicated in it to understand :)
[10:09] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: not a, joke, I really find it usefull for my needs
[10:09] <Ebdomos> what about proprietary venders taking your work
[10:10] <Ebdomos> and not redistributing the changes?
[10:10] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: I don't care
[10:10] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: your much more relaxed than I am :)
[10:10] <Riddell> Ebdomos: oxygen icons uses the GPL 3+, KDE policy requires BSD, GPL 2+ or GPL 3+
[10:10] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: I don't plan to make money with my work :)
[10:11] <Ebdomos> Riddell: in terms of artwork, many people use CC, why is that?
[10:11] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: I prefer to see MS using ssh by default than reinventing the wheel with something uncompatible with us
[10:11] <Sput> actually oxygen is LGPL v3+
[10:11] <Riddell> Ebdomos: CC causes problems for some distros, notably Debian
[10:12] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: think about how usefull and widelly deploied ssh is and you'll understand the benefits of the bsd licence :)
[10:12] <Riddell> Sput: good point
[10:12] <Tonio_> lgpl is nice for artwork since it can be reused by proprietary apps in order not to break the global artwork
[10:12] <Sput> plus BSD and GPL are *not* compatible, and GPL'd projects need to specifically add an exception if they want to allow to link to openssl, for example
[10:13] <Riddell> Sput: BSD and GPL are compatible
[10:13] <Sput> so I'm not sure if going with BSD makes sense
[10:13] <Riddell> openssl isn't BSD, that's why it causes problems
[10:13] <Sput> oh?
[10:13] <Tonio_> Sput: they are...
[10:13] <Ebdomos> lgpl3 I guess it is then
[10:14] <Tonio_> Sput: I don't think BSD can be incompatible with any other licence, but I may be wrong....
[10:14] <Sput> depends on the advertising clause
[10:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: would you like PNM in the panel ?
[10:14] <Sput> I don't think BSD-with-advertising is compatible with GPL
[10:14] <Riddell> Tonio_: it should already be so
[10:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: great :)
[10:14] <Riddell> Sput: right, BSD-with-advertising is what openssl uses, and that's evli
[10:15] <Riddell> Ebdomos: LGPL 3+, good choice :)
[10:15] <Sput> ah I see they have removed that clause in recent versions of the BSD license, so yeah, newer versions are compatible
[10:15] <Sput> not the original though
[10:15] <Sput> but yeah, for KDE artwork LGPLv3+ is probably sanest :
[10:16] <Sput> :)
[10:16] <Tonio_> I sometimes would like to make people think about the benefits of the BSD licence :) this sounds so shocking for linux users, but terribly true...
[10:16] <Ebdomos> Riddell/Sput: Good, thanks for the advice
[10:16]  * Sput doesn't see any benefits in the BSD clause
[10:16] <Sput> eh, license
[10:17] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: I maintain kdenlive package, feel free to lemme test :)
[10:17] <Tonio_> Sput: benefit ?
[10:17] <Tonio_> Sput: I prefer to have ssh working with linux/windows/osx that just linux to linux, point
[10:18] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AFLxS-VwgM
[10:18] <Tonio_> Sput: proprietary stuff will always be arround, and bsd helps getting unified standards
[10:18] <Sput> Tonio_: so use LGPL
[10:18] <Sput> that allows use in proprietary apps and requires giving back modifications
[10:18] <Sput> I find that sane
[10:18] <Tonio_> Sput: any LGPL stuff will never end up in windows for example, few chances in OSX
[10:18] <jcastro> Nightrose: are you guys planning to participate in the GBJ?
[10:18] <Tonio_> Sput: by default I mean...
[10:19] <Sput> so what? I don't want *my* code to end up in windows without being compensated
[10:19] <Tonio_> Sput: matter of choice, I can understand that ;)
[10:19] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: Unfortunately I do not have a great understanding towards the variety of licenses today. Some of the things that I think are important is that the content in question is protected from being abused by proprietary vendors
[10:19] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: and I understand that too :)
[10:20] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: So my ideal license would abide by that, however, I dont know much about them to know the crucial differences
[10:20]  * Sput likes that Gallium3D is GPL for example, to enforce opening up graphics drivers that want to benefit from the technology
[10:20] <Tonio_> but if you want any technology to become a de facto standard, bsd licence helps since most vendors will tend to adopt it
[10:20] <Tonio_> Sput: I don't want anyone to be forced :)
[10:20] <Tonio_> Sput: different vision of freedom :)
[10:21] <Sput> yeah, the old dispute :)
[10:21] <Tonio_> Sput: I'm a linux lover
[10:21] <Tonio_> Sput: but I'd like to see zeroconf/bonjour by default on windows
[10:21] <Sput> for me freedom does not imply forcing me (as an enduser) into having to use proprietary closed crap
[10:21] <Sput> so I welcome any incentive for vendors to open up their drivers
[10:21] <Tonio_> Sput: that would be VERY cool, and will never happen with a gpl/like licence
[10:22] <Tonio_> Sput: zeroconf could become a way more widelly standard if there was a BSD implementation
[10:22] <Sput> isn't bonjour an apple protocol?
[10:22] <Tonio_> Sput: but that's not true in any context
[10:22] <Sput> and why can't MS just implement the spec themselves?
[10:22] <Tonio_> Sput: yeah, it is
[10:22] <Sput> no need to steal code
[10:22] <Sput> as long as specs are open
[10:22] <Tonio_> Sput: as I said, there is no steal of code with the BSD :)
[10:23] <Tonio_> Sput: to make my vision simple : GPL is perfect to protect the dev
[10:23] <Tonio_> Sput: BSD is more a benefit for the end user
[10:23] <Tonio_> I understand the first option, but do prefer the second ;)
[10:23] <Sput> sorta, but e.g. in the case of drivers it depends - because BSD allows the vendor to keep specs closed, which results in lower-quality or non-existing drivers
[10:24] <Tonio_> Sput: bah... GPL + NDA isn't any better ;)
[10:25] <Tonio_> Sput: most linux gpl drivers are coded with an NDA on the specs, specs <> driver code
[10:25] <Sput> well, a GPL driver can easily be reverse-engineered :)
[10:25] <Tonio_> Sput: not any easier than with bsd since the code also is available somewhere ;)
[10:25] <Tonio_> at the very source at least ;)
[10:26] <Tonio_> but it can *also* be used somewhere else where you won't get the sources, true that
[10:26] <Sput> for intermediate stuff like Gallium3D this means that a vendor can take that code, and glue a closed driver around that
[10:26] <Sput> -> no benefit for the enduser
[10:26] <Tonio_> Sput: never ending discussion :) no big deal as long as we respect each other
[10:27] <Tonio_> Sput: don't think about linux to linux
[10:27] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: A combination of both licenses would work best.
[10:27] <Tonio_> Sput: I consider global computing world, including MS, osx, and anything else
[10:28] <Tonio_> Sput: that's just a matter of dev, but believe me, when I see gpl2 incompatible with gpl3, that's just PAIN in the a**
[10:28] <Tonio_> and never ending discussions about "we can't package this because of the licence, not good blabla"
[10:28] <Sput> yeah, deep in my heart I hate all licences :)
[10:29] <Tonio_> Sput: that's why I said the WTFPL :)
[10:29] <Tonio_> Sput: bsd compatible, but no deep reading requires, fully compatible and no need to discuss :)
[10:29] <Tonio_> Sput: the perfect one ;)
[10:29] <Tonio_> http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/
[10:30] <Tonio_> Sput: licence from sam hocevar, a previous DPL
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: will you let knetworkmanager on the cd or demote it to universe ?
[10:32] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's on the CD, we'll throw it out of the archive if plasmoid-n-m proves to actually work
[10:33] <Ebdomos> will kubuntu Jaunty have any kde3 libraries?
[10:34] <Riddell> Ebdomos: yes but we hope to get rid of them from the CD, not sure if we'll manage that or no
[10:34] <Ebdomos> Good luck
[10:35] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: we still have k3b, that's the latest kde3 stuff we cannot replace right now
[10:35] <Riddell> gosh, amarok compiled
[10:35] <Riddell> ** please test amarok from my PPA    deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jr/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
[10:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: I saw you talking about trueg re-working on it ?
[10:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: what are the changes to test ?
[10:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: if it works and if the music collection still works
[10:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: of ! so there is no improvement ? ^^
[10:36] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: next version assumingly is going to be k4b?
[10:36] <Riddell> Tonio_: helio seemed confident that trueg would get a KDE 4 k3b release out
[10:36] <Riddell> Tonio_: the improvement is that this could go into main
[10:36] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: no, that's the funny joke ! :)
[10:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah, mysql problems fixed.... testing right now
[10:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: gotten it to work with 5.0 mysql then ?
[10:37] <Ebdomos> Tonio_:  sheesh. Recently I read a interview with Shuttle, and he talked about the possibility of porting gnome to qt. I think that would be pretty nice, a ton of apps could probably drop the k from their name
[10:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: no 5.1
[10:38] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: don't dream, that's unlikelly to happen :)
[10:38] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: it was a shuttleworth little provocation to create the debate, and that was very intelligent :)
[10:39] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: but that'll *never* happen ;)
[10:39] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: it means rewrite *everything* from scratch in gnome
[10:39] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: look at how hard it was for kde to just "port" everything.... rewritting gnome is mostly impossible right now
[10:40] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: im sure it could manage
[10:40] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: but occasionally, some apps can be ported to Qt, like vlc for example
[10:40] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: gnome devs love C, and not C++ :)
[10:40] <Tonio_> gnome going Qt, all devs leaving the project :)
[10:41] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: its a tricky situation
[10:41] <Tonio_> but on the other hand, qt is probably the perfect toolkit for portable application
[10:41] <Tonio_> Sput: we'll agree on that point I think :)
[10:42] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: well that is why nokia grabbed it, wasnt it?
[10:42] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: they also wanted qtopia ;)
[10:42] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: but yes I was a bit affraid, but they are doing amazing things with it...
[10:42] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: porting to new environments, fix the licencing problems and so on....
[10:42] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: really, a big thank you to nokia on that point :)
[10:43] <Ebdomos> ah, thats good
[10:43] <Ebdomos> Tonio_: hows the port to windows going?
[10:43] <Tonio_> kde port ?
[10:44] <Ebdomos> yes
[10:44] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: still experimental.... kdepim crashes quite often
[10:44] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: my only interest in the port is kdepim, to be honnest
[10:44] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: amarok is great, but windows has plenty of very nice audio players
[10:44] <Tonio_> Ebdomos: it really misses a good pim client if you except Outlook, which is very expensive
[10:45] <Riddell> what nice audio players does windows have?
[10:45] <Tonio_> I heeard konqueror and dolphin were working correctly, although I doubt that's very usefull for the end user
[10:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: winamp
[10:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: foobar2000 (best ever...)
[10:45] <Tonio_> and honnestly, WMP isn't that bad in it's last version
[10:46] <Ebdomos> Im not to stoked on songbird
[10:46] <Riddell> winamp has no collection and a UI from the 1990s
[10:46] <Riddell> WMP doesn't work with ipods
[10:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: HU ?????? have you tested a recent winamp ?
[10:46] <Ebdomos> It is far to slow
[10:46] <Riddell> nope, don't use windows :)
[10:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: winamp isn't the winamp 3 you knew :)
[10:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://notasueltas.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/winamp-bento.jpg
[10:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: all options activated in this case, but it can look like this (the default is a little lighter !!)
[10:48] <Tonio_> WMP doesn't work with ipid -> IPOD doesn't work with WMP :)
[10:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's the correct order, Ipods are bad, that's my opinion :)
[10:48] <Riddell> I really hope that colour scheme isn't the default
[10:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: nope, default is blueish
[10:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: but the UI is very modern since winamp 5
[10:50] <Tonio_> well I'm fine to see kde ported to windows, but I doubt that's usefull for most apps... except from kdepim :)
[10:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: isn't that the winamp you talked about ? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DuUr1onTzXQ/R14x-l-g7fI/AAAAAAAAAEE/u55DcYuO2gs/s400/winamp.gif
[10:50] <Riddell> yes
[10:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah that's pretty outdated (4 years at least...)
[10:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: and linux should have foobar2000... really this app rocks (and is free software... but windows only)
[10:53] <Tonio_> hum, no it changed to go closed sources.... so bad :)
[10:54] <ScottK> Riddell: Re brasero and backports is I don't see a bug against brasero claiming it will do this.  We'd need to supercede it with a higher version, not just remove it so people who've installed it get fixed too.
[10:55] <ScottK> Riddell: So ideally I'd like to see this get fixed on Jaunty and backport that.
[10:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: and windows also has itunes, which is (outside the closed and ipod link aspects) a very good mediamanager/audioplayer :)
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: so as I said, there are lots of good apps for windows, and I doubt amarok will be successfull in there...
[11:16] <Tonio_> xorg is really not stable on jaunty right now......
[11:16] <Tonio_> I get a crash/cpu hang/memory leak every day....
[11:25]  * Mamarok knows why she did *not* make the step yet
[11:26] <Tm_T> I'm slowly being in a point where my system has more jaunty than intrepid packages
[11:44] <Nightrose> jcastro: if you tell me what i need to do and when i am in (sorry but i havn't kept up with planets during the last week so i am out of the loop kinda)
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: we have to take care at koffice2 a bit...
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: ftbfs on the current 4.2 dev packages...
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21756111/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.koffice2_1%3A1.9.98.5-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[12:03] <jcastro> Nightrose: no worries! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam
[12:05] <Nightrose> jcastro: thx   /me looks
[12:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: found the fix for this ;) uploading
[12:10] <mrvanes> basket misses libartskde.so.1 in jaunty
[12:12] <Nightrose> jcastro: alright - so i just put my name under upstream projects and do some promo when the time is near? and then help people triage amarok bugs when needed on that weekend?
[12:12] <jcastro> Nightrose: sure, whichever way works for you. :D
[12:12] <jcastro> Nightrose: I will likely blog about it also
[12:13] <Nightrose> ok
[12:13] <jcastro> Nightrose: we have a little grid there of bug lists for people to work on
[12:13] <Nightrose> *nod*
[12:13] <jcastro> if you want you can feel free to add a list and then you can send people to it
[12:13] <jcastro> \m/
[12:13] <Nightrose> ;-)
[12:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: amarok works for me :)
[12:15] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: fanzy being the downstream contact for amarok for the clobal bug jam? else i'll just be up and downstream contact
[12:16] <Tonio_> hum questions about the ppa... is tarbal needed for initial ppa upload ?
[12:16] <Tonio_> if the package already exists in ubuntu ?
[12:16] <Tonio_> coz I don't want to upload koffice from here, to be honnest :)
[12:24] <mrvanes> Or should I file a bug? Seems like a packaging issue to me...
[12:52] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: what's a downstream contact?
[12:53] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: the kubuntu contact for the clobal bug jam
[12:53] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: if the tarball's published in the archive you only need to do a diff upload
[12:53] <JontheEchidna> Nightrose: sure
[12:53] <Nightrose> *global
[12:53] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: great ;)
[12:53] <Nightrose> great - will put you down in a minute
[12:53] <Tonio_> I wasn't just sure with the ppas :)
[12:56] <JontheEchidna> yeah, tricksy things those ppas
[13:07] <Riddell> clobal?
[13:09] <JontheEchidna> [07:53:00] <Nightrose> *global
[13:15] <Riddell> ** daily CD ISOs need testing for alpha 4
[13:15] <Riddell> oh I wish I had bandwidth
[13:17] <Lure> Riddell, Tonio_: k-d-s needs change due to rename of networkmanagement plasmoid
[13:17] <Lure> /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/share/config/plasma-appletsrc still mentions networkmanager
[13:17] <rgreening> I wish I had ten additional pairs of hands
[13:17] <Tonio_> Lure: I saw that, I'll handle this one
[13:17] <Riddell> Lure: what is it calle dnow?
[13:17] <Tonio_> Lure: right now :)
[13:18] <Lure> Riddell: networkmanagement
[13:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I forgot to mention you, that changed yesterday
[13:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm fixing
[13:18] <rgreening> k-d-s needs to have konversation removed I assume, yes?
[13:19] <Tonio_> rgreening: hum, true that
[13:19] <Riddell> in what version?  I have 0.0+svn920287 and my ~/.kde/share/config/plasma-appletsrc says plugin=networkmanager
[13:19] <Lure> Riddell: did you have time to look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLensFun
[13:19] <Tonio_> Riddell:  0.0+svn920770-0ubuntu1
[13:19] <Lure> Riddell: I did not open bug yet, as pakcage is still in NEW
[13:19] <Riddell> oh, our local mirror is out of date
[13:20] <Riddell> these sprints are really painful for development
[13:20] <Lure> oh, you are on spirnt
[13:20] <Lure> Riddell: any interesting development for kubuntu?
[13:20] <Riddell> although it does mean I get to use the word Crudités for the first time in my life
[13:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: :)
[13:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah, I never understood why we don't call that "légumes"...
[13:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: it becomes "crudités" in front of the table.... so stupid :)
[13:27] <Tonio_> Lure: KDS uploaded, bzr up to date
[13:27] <Riddell> Lure: got amarok in main sorted
[13:28] <Riddell> Lure: david barth seems to want to get the message indicator in kubuntu for jaunty and we spoke about how to do that, he seems to be keen to make sure it all works in a suitably KDE way
[13:30] <ScottK> Riddell: We have no spec for that.  KC would need to accept it IMO.
[13:35] <Riddell> hope so
[13:37] <ScottK> Tonio_: Did we really need that last kdepim upload in the middle of a freeze?
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's up with the ppas ?
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: kdepimlibs5-dev: Depends: libboost1.35-dev but it is not going to be installed
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: no problem to install locally, did I miss something ?
[13:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: bah it'll go in when the freeze ends, no?
[13:43] <ScottK> Tonio_: You're trying to install something else at the same time athe wants boost
[13:43] <ScottK> Tonio_: No.  The freezes are soft now.  It's up to you not to upload.
[13:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: oups, oki, sorry for the issue then....
[13:43] <ScottK> Only the Beta/RC freezes are hard freezes.
[13:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: changes are minor, btw
[13:43] <ScottK> Tonio_: Now you know ...
[13:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: the thing is that with sieve activated, kdepim hangs the cpu and will crash kde by the end....
[13:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: can be annoying :)
[13:44] <ScottK> It's more a question of if it causes any CDs to have to be respun.
[13:44] <ScottK> Not sure about where we are on that.
[13:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: yeah, I can understand that....
[13:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: well that's the first part of the patch.... kdepimlibs is coming too
[13:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: I think now kdepim is uploaded, better upload the second patch right ?
[13:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: and once again sorry, I thought it was a hard freeze
[13:45] <ScottK> Argh.  What's the effect of just having the one part patched?
[13:45] <ScottK> Is there a regression or is it just not fixed?
[13:46] <Tonio_> ScottK: nothing, it just won't fix the crash :)
[13:46] <ScottK> I'd say hold it then unless Riddell says he wants it.
[13:47] <Tonio_> ScottK: the bug impact is null for people not using sieve, but for people doing so, it makes kmail unusable...
[13:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: you decide :)
[13:47] <ScottK> I'm good with whatever he says.
[13:47] <Riddell> wait until freeze is over else we'll never have a chance of doing this alpha
[13:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: I didn't understand your comment with libboost1.35-dev.... this is not a conflict, it says package is broken, which is obviously wrong
[13:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, I'll wait for kdepimlibs then
[13:48] <Riddell> test some ISOs in the mean time!
[13:48] <ScottK> It is.
[13:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: not showstopper bug, but for people like, not being able to use kmail is a bit painfull...
[13:48] <ScottK> libboost and libboost1.35 aren't con installable.
[13:49] <ScottK> con/co
[13:49] <ScottK> We're in the midst of transition currently
[13:49] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum, looking on that point then
[13:49] <ScottK> Tonio_: I've got a kdenetwork upload waiting for the freeze to be over.
[13:50] <Tonio_> ScottK: ok
[13:50] <ScottK> Currently anything that build-dep on kdenetwork-dev and anything that's transitioned (like kdepim-dev) will get that error on the buildds.
[13:50] <ScottK> If there are others, feel free to prep those too.
[13:51] <Tonio_> ScottK: no libboost-dev or anything reference, and apt-get build-dep liboost1.35-dev works
[13:51] <ScottK> I didn't upload it as it didn't seem to affect anything in Main.
[13:51] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'm a bit lost it fails in my ppa...
[13:51] <snikker> Lure: Hi, i'm trying to install your digikam package (from lunchpad), but  the package manager say that it's not authenticated (even if i've add your gpg key to my keyring)...
[13:51] <ScottK> Tonio_: What's failing?
[13:51] <Tonio_> deps check....
[13:51] <ScottK> Tonio_: Which package?
[13:52] <ScottK> snikker: Did you install the PPA's key or Lure's key?
[13:52] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum wait, I think I didn't test the good package, you may be right :)
[13:52] <snikker> ScottK: ppa key
[13:53] <ScottK> OK.  Then I'd ask in #launchpad.  We've no control over PPAs here.
[13:53] <Tonio_> ScottK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21978462/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.koffice2_1%3A1.9.98.5-0ubuntu4~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[13:54] <Tonio_> ScottK: right, it build-deps on liboost-dev.....
[13:54] <snikker> ScottK: ok, i wait
[13:54] <Tonio_> ScottK: thanks for the tip
[13:54] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[13:59] <ScottK> Tonio_: Is there a bug on the seive problem?
[14:00] <ScottK> I'm thinking we ought to add it to known issues for the Alpha 4 release notes.
[14:00] <Tonio_> ScottK: nope, I generally report when I can't fix myself, and as I had the bug....
[14:00] <Tonio_> the fix...
[14:00] <Tonio_> ScottK: reporing the issue
[14:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: we have a new koffice2 beta if you're looking for packaging it
[14:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: great, will do that tomorrow then, I'll be on contrib day
[14:07] <Riddell> unstable/koffice-1.9.98.6 on ktown
[14:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: great, downloading, I'll probably work on that toonight
[14:09] <Riddell> super
[14:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, where is it hidden ? ktown leads me to the techbase...
[14:10] <Tonio_> ktown.kde.org right ?
[14:11] <ScottK> Tonio_: There's a 'known issues' section in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/Alpha4/Kubuntu where it'd be good to document your seive issue.
[14:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: okay, doing right now
[14:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah.... svn tag...
[14:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: tired, sorry :)
[14:19] <Riddell> Tonio_: you have to log into ktown, I seem to rememebr you have access
[14:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: hmm, no you don't
[14:22] <Riddell> Tonio_: ok I added your ssh key, try ssh ftpubuntu@ktown.kde.org
[14:40] <Notch-1> hi, i've created a script in /etc/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/, but it seems to run 2 times, does anybody know why?
[14:42] <rgreening> !kubuntu
[14:42] <rgreening> Notch-1: we do kubuntu here, so no low level support here
[14:42] <rgreening> just the KDE desktop and related apps
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> I think kpackagekit has a bug
[14:43] <seele> shouldn't that be updates? i thought we had a discussion about Kubuntu not being Ubuntu + KDE but it's own thing
[14:43] <Notch-1> rgreening:  thank you, where i sould ask?
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> Hovering over the "action" column for any package puts a small + icon, even when then action icon is a minus
[14:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: anyway, there is a tag on the svn.... I go can with that, no ?
[14:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for giving me access
[14:44] <rgreening> Notch-1: not 100% sure, but you could try asking in the ubuntu channel
[14:45] <Notch-1> rgreening: you mean ubuntu-devel?
[14:46] <Riddell> Tonio_: always use the official tar
[14:46] <Riddell> ah, glatzor
[14:46] <Tonio_> oki doki
[14:46] <Riddell> glatzor: did you see the packagekit MIR issue?
[14:46] <rgreening> Notch-1: sure.
[14:46] <JontheEchidna> http://imagebin.ca/view/WD61_0.html
[14:47] <Riddell> seele: you talking about the bot factoid?  just suggest a better wording and we can poke whoever controls that
[14:49] <Notch-1> rgreening: thanks, i't just hard to get attention on some channels...
[14:49] <rgreening> ya
[14:54] <davmor2> Riddell: Stop bloody re-spining you git :D
[14:54] <glatzor> Riddell, hello Riddell, Right. I was at a seminar the last days and could not take a look at it.
[14:55] <glatzor> Riddell, I will so in the next hours.
[14:57] <Riddell> davmor2: I protest innocence
[14:57] <Riddell> ooh, still half an hour until I download this ISO.  which is the same as it was an hour ago
[14:58] <davmor2> Riddell: Meh lose you off this time then :)
[14:58] <Riddell> 20090127.1?  that date looks wrong
[14:58] <JontheEchidna> can anybody try searching for "dolphin" in kpackagekit? It fails for me
[14:59] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: try flipper
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> lol
[14:59] <rgreening> Im old
[14:59] <rgreening> :P
[14:59]  * JontheEchidna is barely old enough to get that reference
[15:00] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: btw, did you get to look at that suse patch?
[15:00] <smarter> Riddell: tried using rsync?
[15:00] <davmor2> Riddell: it's bloody hardy.2
[15:00] <rgreening> not yet. I dl it... JontheEchidna, hopefully in an hour or so...
[15:01] <Riddell> smarter: I don't have my normal ISO download computer here so nothing to rsync to
[15:01] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: I can find dolphin in kpackagekit
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: do you get a failure message?
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> oh, you can
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[15:01] <rgreening> nope
[15:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: one stupid question.... what is katelier ? I never heard about it :)
[15:02] <Riddell> Tonio_: can't remember, we don't need it, it's for windows or something
[15:02] <Tonio_> oki ;)
[15:02] <Tonio_> yeah I know it's not packaged, that was just for curiosity :)
[15:18] <Lure> Riddell: archive.ubuntu.com get stuck very often for me from work, but is fast from home
[15:18] <Lure> Riddell: at work, the only way to get large things down is to reget often
[15:18] <Lure> maybe something like this hits you at sprint...
[15:19] <Lure> Riddell: btw, you are in London/CanonicalHQ?
[15:21] <Riddell> if only, Canonical Tower has a direct fibre link to the data centre, no bandwidth problems there
[15:21] <Riddell> I'm in a concrete block hotel in East Berlin, surrounded by concrete blocks of flats for miles around
[15:22] <seele> sounds depressing
[15:23] <Riddell> well at least I get a hot date with ellen tomorrow :)
[15:23]  * seele sighs
[15:23] <seele> i see how it is
[15:23] <seele> hehe
[15:24] <Lure> Riddell: very inspiring setting... ;-)
[15:25] <davmor2> Lure: It is the more he fixes the quicker he's allowed to come back home :)
[15:27] <Riddell> we went go-carting last night, the gnome packager ran me over and my knee now has no skin on it
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> oww
[15:31]  * Lure thinks that Riddell will skip next Akademy due to too many gnome's in the neighbourhood ;-)
[15:31] <davmor2> See how he blames gnome guys to continue the flame war......
[15:32] <davmor2> :)
[15:32] <Lure> davmor2: lol
[15:32]  * Lure -> home, be back later (and it is about time to get quassel-core on some system) ;-)
[15:54] <davmor2> Riddell: I'm starting on kubuntu now
[15:55] <Riddell> davmor2: I'm doing amd64 desktop now
[15:55] <davmor2> Riddell: I'm starting with i386 alt :)
[15:57] <nixternal> Riddell: is this for ISO testing?
[15:58] <nixternal> if so, I have successfully installed x86 and x86_64 alternates within the past 24 hours utilizing different install routines
[15:58] <davmor2> nixternal: yeap
[15:58] <nixternal> roger that, I will do a quick qa check on the website then
[15:59] <davmor2> nixternal: It needs to be the candidate image
[15:59] <nixternal> when was the candidate image released?
[16:02] <davmor2> sorry phone
[16:02] <davmor2> nixternal: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all
[16:03] <nixternal> ya, those are the ones I used
[16:04] <Riddell> nixternal: this european morning
[16:04] <Riddell> 12 hours ago or so
[16:05] <davmor2> less than that Riddell
[16:05] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, i just got them not even 8 hours ago
[16:11] <nixternal> wow, the iso site is super slow this morning
[16:11] <Riddell> nixternal: it's because you're stuck in a hotel with slow ADSL being used by 60 geeks
[16:11] <Riddell> oh wait..
[16:11] <nixternal> lol, that is you?
[16:11] <Riddell> mmm
[16:12] <nixternal> hahaha, I am at work with super faster internet and it is still slow
[16:14] <Riddell> "scanning the mirror" says ubiquity, that'll be it stuck for the next hour then
[16:15] <nixternal> heh, I actually installed everything pretty fast this morning
[16:15] <nixternal> did 4 installs with pxe and about 6 w/o pxe
[16:16] <Riddell> nixternal: netboot?
[16:16] <nixternal> no, pxe
[16:16] <nixternal> regular alternate isos via pxe
[16:16] <Riddell> isn't pxe netboot?
[16:17] <nixternal> ya
[16:17] <davmor2> nixternal: Riddell:  That's because it's being uploaded to by 60 geeks stuck in a concrete jungle :)
[16:18] <Riddell> wow, I have five battery plasmoids now
[16:18] <nixternal> hehe, must be a super laptop
[16:18] <rgreening> ha
[16:19] <Riddell> has anyone had a problem of black text on plasmoids?  rick from the server team as just moaning to me
[16:19] <nixternal> ext4 kicks ass!
[16:19] <nixternal> Riddell: which plasmoids? I haven't noticed anything like that
[16:19]  * Riddell kicks nixternal's arse
[16:19] <Riddell> nixternal: all of them
[16:19] <nixternal> haha
[16:19] <nixternal> no, I have not come across that
[16:20] <nixternal> on Intel chips on both Intrepid and Jaunty
[16:20]  * JontheEchidna hasn't come across that either
[16:20] <nixternal> now my workstation here at work is NVIDIA Quadro NVS290 - which means KDE 4 w/o composite only :(
[16:21] <nixternal> I can't live without compositing because it makes things easer in a lot of cases for me...so I am using GNOME instead
[16:24] <Riddell> yay, it installed
[16:24] <Riddell> strangely compositing works great on the CD session for me but not from my installed session
[16:30] <Riddell> works if I wipe my kwinrc, must be some plugin that doesn't work on ym machine
[16:37] <davmor2> Riddell: I got unable to load widget on nm
[16:38] <Riddell> davmor2: known issue, fixed earlier today but won't get on the CDs unless we respin (which I really don't want)
[16:38] <Riddell> ScottK, Sput: quassel seems to pleasingly "just works"
[16:38] <davmor2> Riddell: hmm I'd say the was pretty major
[16:39] <Riddell> ScottK, Sput: where is the default channel set?
[16:40] <Riddell> ScottK, Sput: it joins #kubuntu but you still have to click on it in the left bar to see it, I think it should switch to the channel as soon as it joins (same on /join #foo)
[16:40] <Riddell> ScottK, Sput: how can we turn off the show me everything window?  I'm really not a fan of it
[16:41] <glatzor> Riddell, is ist possible to only upload a subset of the binary packages to main? Or is only handled on the source package level?
[16:41] <Riddell> glatzor: source packages in main can have some of their binaries in universe
[16:41] <glatzor> Riddell, I don't want to have the mozilla and gstreamer plugin in main
[16:41] <glatzor> Riddell, are there some special tags required?
[16:42] <Riddell> glatzor: I'll just keep those ones in universe when I move the rest to main
[16:42] <Riddell> it's an archive admin task
[16:42] <jussi01> Riddell: just view -> chat monitor
[16:43] <glatzor> Riddell, fine.
[16:44] <Riddell> jussi01: I mean in config files, in kubuntu-default-settings
[16:44] <jussi01> Riddell: oh please dont :( !!!
[16:45] <davmor2> nixternal: How did you do a whole drive install using ext4 when the default for whole drive is ext3?
[16:49] <Riddell> jussi01: why not?
[16:49] <Sput> Riddell: we still have to decide upstream if the chat monitor should be default or not... I guess in any case, we can provide you with a kubuntu only patch that tweaks defaults for you
[16:50] <Sput> (probably easier to change the default in code than in settings files for these things)
[16:51] <Sput> the startup-experience will still be tackled
[16:51] <seele> Sput: i think having it turned off by default simplifies the UI more for the audience we are going for
[16:51] <davmor2> Riddell: are you on your laptop on wifi?
[16:51] <Sput> (such as, selecting the status buffer or the first channel)
[16:51] <seele> it's up to you if you want a patch, or we can ship the option in the config file
[16:51] <Sput> seele: yes, but if we decide to have it like that upstream anyway, we don't need to patch it :)
[16:51] <Riddell> davmor2: yes
[16:51] <seele> Sput: ah :)
[16:52] <Sput> so I think it'll be sensible to wait until we have the startup defaults the way we like it, and then patch for kubuntu from there :)
[16:52] <davmor2> Riddell: so how did you configure it without the use of nm?
[16:52] <Riddell> davmor2: alt-F2   knetworkmanager
[16:53] <Riddell> davmor2: or Cashew, add network manager plasmoid
[16:54] <davmor2> Riddell: Meh still think it needs to be in by default :)
[16:57] <jussi01> Riddell: in my humble opinion, the chatview is one of the super features of quassel and to me its not something that shoud overly confuse people, so whhy not have it. once the user gets used to it (if they used irc before) its good, and if they havent they dont know any different. but meh, whatever.
[16:58] <Riddell> jussi01: what's the point?  it's too small to be useful, if someone says my name elsewhere I'll see a highlight, it's just a random distraction to me
[16:59] <ScottK> Well it can be a bit confusing at first and if it will be present by default it ought to be easy to remove.
[17:01] <ScottK> claydoh: Do you think any of your KDE3 living forum dwellers could be interested to do some iso testing?
[17:01] <ScottK> We have candidate images for a Kubuntu 8.04.2 that need testing.
[17:03] <ScottK> The tech board approved doing Kubuntu 8.04.2 image, so we need testers for that.  Anyone?
[17:04] <Riddell> wow, this kdebluetooth icons is doing something
[17:04] <davmor2> ScottK: I can but not till jaunty is outta the door ref #ubuntu-release :)
[17:04] <Riddell> not convinced that systray is the best place to put the UI, but at least it wworks
[17:05] <Riddell> ScottK: I can't until I'm back with real bandwidth I'm afraid
[17:05] <ScottK> davmor2: Thanks and understand the priority.
[17:05] <ScottK> Riddell: Roger.  Have fun in the 3rd world.
[17:07] <davmor2> Riddell: is there a bug for n-m plasmoid being borked
[17:07] <Riddell> ScottK: 2nd, not going to the 3rd until March
[17:07] <Riddell> davmor2: no, it's a bug in kubuntu-default-settings which is now fixed anyway
[17:07] <ScottK> Riddell: Given the bandwidth, I thought maybe Berlin qualified as 3rd...
[17:08] <Riddell> how do I put images in the wiki these days?
[17:08] <davmor2> Riddell: yes but not on the cd's so I need a bug to report against :P
[17:08] <Riddell> davmor2: go ahead and report one if you wish, we'll just set it to Fix Released :)
[17:09] <a|wen> ScottK: any relevance if the test-result arrives in ~20-24 hours
[17:09] <ScottK> a|wen: Yes.  Definitely.
[17:09] <davmor2> Riddell: np's but I need to do my job too :)
[17:10]  * a|wen starts downloading with his 2nd-3rd world class internet
[17:11] <a|wen> ScottK: how's status on the extra kdebluetooth update in intrepid-proposed?
[17:11] <ScottK> Good point.
[17:11] <ScottK> Let me check
[17:12] <Riddell> it's still in unapproved queue
[17:12] <ScottK> Candidate ISOs for Kubuntu 8.04.2 are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/hardy/daily-live/20090126.1/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/hardy/daily/20090127.1/
[17:12] <Riddell> pitti is currently in a meeting with important people so I can't disturb immediately
[17:12] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you ask pitti to accept it?
[17:12] <ScottK> Riddell: Or would you?  It just adds a missing depends.
[17:14] <Riddell> ScottK: his meeting might be ending
[17:14] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks for taking care of it.
[17:14] <a|wen> ScottK: links in topic? ... as the links on the qa iso-tracker doesn't work
[17:14] <Riddell> Sput: why is the default username not the users's account name?
[17:15] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Could you look at the Universe plasmoids and retry as needed on armel?
[17:15] <Riddell> Sput: and why is the real name not set from /etc/passwd?
[17:15] <ScottK> a|wen: Yes, the links in the iso tracker are wrong.
[17:15] <Sput> Riddell: interesting ideas... probably because that information is not easily available in a platform-independent way
[17:16] <Riddell> hum, I'd expect it to be somewhere in Qt or kdelibs but maybe not
[17:16] <Sput> but could be #ifdef'd
[17:16]  * ScottK notes that the other main developer appears to use something called a "Mac".
[17:16] <Sput> yeah, he's strange
[17:16] <Sput> EgS uses emacs too :)
[17:17] <jussi01> hahah
[17:17]  * ScottK senses some kind of near recursion there.
[17:17] <jussi01> EgS: is strange, but we love him :D
[17:17] <Sput> in a purely platonic way
[17:17] <jussi01> hehe
[17:17] <jussi01> yeah
[17:18] <Sput> anyway, any such issues you guys find, please tracker them as feature requests
[17:19] <ScottK> jussi01: Would you mind grabbing Riddell's suggestions and putting them in the Quassel tracker?
[17:20]  * Sput cookies jussi01 if he does that
[17:20]  * Sput resumes working on the job that actually pays him meanwhile
[17:22] <jussi01> Sput: Im just getting visitors, but if nobody has done it by tomorrow/tonight if they leave early enough Ill do it.
[17:24] <ScottK> Maybe astromme will do it in the meantime.
[17:25]  * astromme wakes from a sleep
[17:25] <astromme> hmm?
[17:27] <astromme> ScottK: What might I do? Riddell's suggestions? Where?
[17:28] <ScottK> astromme: Read the scrollback a bit.  Jr had some suggestions about Quassel default setup that Sput asked to have added as feature requests in their tracker.
[17:28] <ScottK> Would you be up for that?
[17:28] <ScottK> astromme: Starts about 50 minutes ago
[17:29] <astromme> ScottK: Possibly. I'm quite busy today but if I need a break from engineering, I'll take a look.
[17:29] <ScottK> astromme: Great.  You and jussi01 can tag team or something.
[17:37] <a|wen> ScottK: how is 4.1.4 in general going ... any issues turned up here the last days we need to deal with?
[17:38] <ScottK> a|wen: Glad you asked.  Just one.  Let me get you the bug number.
[17:38] <ScottK> a|wen: Have a look at Bug #324232.  I'd love some suggestions.
[17:41] <a|wen> ScottK: uh oh, that looks kind of strange, yeah ... do we have anyone that can confirm the wrong behaviour being consistent? (my 4.1.4 install is on a netbook, so no room for gnome)
[17:41] <ScottK> No.  All I got is someone clicking it affects Gentoo also.
[17:42] <ScottK> Would you be up for a drag through the KDE svn to see if anything has turned up post release?
[17:45] <a|wen> ScottK: found kde bug 183123 with one from gentoo having the problem in 4.1.4 ... i'll link them
[18:00] <ScottK> a|wen: I'm not sure the Gentoo guy has the same problem and I can't reproduce his issue.
[18:01]  * Sput has Gentoo but no Gnome to test
[18:03] <mluser-work> should'nt mplayerthumbs be pulled in for vidio file previews in both konqueror and dolphin?
[18:05] <ghostcube> hmm guys i have a problem in kde 4.1.1 there was an option to get compiz startet by an self made script inside systemsettings wheere is this option gone oO
[18:05] <ghostcube> 4.1.4
[18:05] <ghostcube> now in kde 4.2 i cant find it anymore oO
[18:06] <ghostcube> afaik it was sessionmanagement
[18:08] <a|wen> ScottK: i'm not entirely sure either ... but they could very well be caused by the same change
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> ghostcube: it got moved to default applications
[18:09] <astromme> Can somone ping me? I want to test out some notification stuff
[18:09] <ghostcube> JontheEchidna, thank you very much :)
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> astromme: pling
[18:09] <ghostcube> i never had searched there lol
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> ;-)
[18:09] <astromme> JontheEchidna: Thanks. Once more?
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: all of them built
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> astromme: ping
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> oh, there's one
[18:11]  * JontheEchidna retries
[18:12] <a|wen> ScottK: we want a fix for kde bug 179921 right? (commit in 4.1 branch marked as "bad regression in 4.1.4!")
[18:16] <ScottK-desktop> a|wen: I don't have that problem.
[18:16] <ScottK-desktop> It works for me.
[18:16] <ScottK-desktop> At least as well as it always has, which is you need to have both windows open before you copy.
[18:17] <a|wen> ScottK-desktop: do you have the paste in context-menu?
[18:18] <ScottK-desktop> I do if both windows are open first.  I've had that needed since 4.1.2, but that patch may fix it.
[18:18] <ScottK-desktop> Let me look into it.
[18:18] <ScottK-desktop> It may not be a regression, but it'd sure be a handy fix.
[18:21] <a|wen> ScottK: nothing about fullscreen issues though ...
[18:29] <ScottK-desktop> nixternal: You have Gnome, don't you?
[18:30] <vacationlogger> neversfelde: sure, I'll be near nurmberg in about 1.5 years...
[18:30]  * vacationlogger sings a song about how tired he is
[18:30] <ScottK-desktop> Mayne he can try to replicate it.
[18:30] <ScottK-desktop> Mayne/Maybe
[18:31]  * ScottK-desktop pours a cup of coffee for vacationlogger.
[18:31] <vacationlogger> oh noes, I have to go to bed in approx 2 hours :S
[18:32] <ScottK-desktop> If coffee now will keep you awake in two hours, you aren't tired.
[18:35] <vacationlogger> well
[18:35] <vacationlogger> if coffee had a psychological effect on me, that might be so
[18:35] <vacationlogger> but since caffeine gets taken up by the stomach it would only get distributed after > 30 minutes
[18:36] <vacationlogger> + it got a half-life >2 hours, so it ought to be fatal ;-)
[18:38] <a|wen> ScottK: if you can get any kind of confirmation out of a gnome user please add it ... in the mean time, i'll try to do some debugging together with him, to see if it is a conf-file problem
[18:40] <ScottK-desktop> Thanks.
[18:40]  * a|wen will go to bed ... 8.04 iso remaining time ~5h :/
[18:42] <nixternal> ScottK-desktop: yes I have GNOME
[18:43] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: that flash patch is SuSE specific it would seem
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> well, yes. but it could be adapted
[18:43] <rgreening> the function ymp_flash
[18:43] <apachelogger> rgreening: it's suse, Suse, SUSE, or openSUSE
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: tmp_flash is a QUrl
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> *ymp
[18:43] <ScottK-desktop> nixternal: If you're on Intrepid with your Gnome, would you please install Kontact from intrepid-proposed and see if you can replicate Bug #324232
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> horrible naming scheme, I know
[18:44] <rgreening> oh, a variable class instance
[18:44] <rgreening> I see.. right
[18:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: isn't there some fancy gnome app that does that fullscreen stuff?
[18:44] <JontheEchidna> I was thinking maybe we could get it to call install-package instead of downloading a .ymp file
[18:44] <apachelogger> made for the netbook thingies
[18:44]  * ScottK-desktop boggles a bit that miscapitalization of SuSE is enough to snap vacationalogger back to apachelogger.
[18:44] <ScottK-desktop> Hildon?
[18:45] <nixternal> ScottK-desktop: well according to the description, no I cannot replicate...I run a multitude of KDE apps in my GNOME session and have never had that behavior
[18:45] <apachelogger> nah, that is the menu IIRC
[18:45] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yes, but that would mean that both gnome and kde apps would be affected at once3
[18:45] <nixternal> I will install Kontact now
[18:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: might as well not
[18:45] <ScottK-desktop> nixternal: Do you have 4.1.4 from intrepid-proposed?
[18:45] <ScottK-desktop> Thanks.
[18:45] <apachelogger> we know how ubuntu thinks of well established X standards
[18:45] <apachelogger> :P
[18:45] <nixternal> err, 4.2 stuff
[18:45] <apachelogger> one patch here, and one there, and \o/
[18:45] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[18:45] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: I assume that we would simply point it at the flash-nonfree deb in our repo?
[18:46] <nixternal> ScottK-desktop: 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu2
[18:46] <nixternal> that what I want?
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: I was thinking maybe we could call install-package to install the package rather than loading a file
[18:46] <ScottK-desktop> This is where apturl would come in Handy.
[18:46] <rgreening> right
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> not point at a deb
[18:46] <ScottK-desktop> nixternal: No, 4.1.4-0ubuntuwhatever it is in -proposed.
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> since that would change each new version of flash
[18:46] <nixternal> bbiaf....phone call
[18:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: in either case that would only be controlable bye the window manager ... that is: if the bug is about _real_ fullscreen
[18:48]  * JontheEchidna testbuilds basket
[18:54] <Lure> Riddell: do you know if anybody uploaded fixed kdeedu (marble packaging) to intrepid (k-experimental)?
[18:54] <Lure> Riddell: tackat is complaining that they are getting many bug reports
[18:55] <JontheEchidna> So, basket's debuild clean target directly modifies the source... is that bad?
[18:57] <ScottK> Riddell: I'm pleased to report KDE all built on lpia and good progress on armel.
[18:57]  * ScottK is currently staring at prumnopitys and willing it to peddle faster on kdebindings.
[18:58] <ScottK> The other ports archs are currently totally broken due to kernel/libdrm mismatches, so nothing to do there.
[19:01] <rgreening> ScottK: does that mean we could have an iso for lpia?
[19:01] <rgreening> kubuntu one I mean
[19:02] <ScottK> I'm checking where kubuntu-meta is with lpia
[19:02] <ScottK> I'll know in a moment
[19:02] <rgreening> cause my Acer one would simply love it
[19:04] <ScottK> Yep.
[19:15] <ScottK> rgreening: I've asked.
[19:16] <davmor2> Should oem end user be just grey?
[19:21] <rgreening> k ScottK.
[19:31] <davmor2> I'm going to try an kubuntu oem install with the nvidia module enabled and see if it will go through to the end and install the end user
[19:34] <EgS> ScottK, Sput, jussi01: I really don't know what to say... :P
[19:35] <Sput> EgS: "sorry"?
[19:35] <Sput> :)
[19:36] <EgS> Sput: stfu!
[19:36] <Lure> Riddell: I have uploaded fixed kdeedu (marble) to kubuntu-experimental/intrepid to make #kde-edu people happy
[19:36] <EgS> (you know: as in "sharp thoughts for you!")
[19:36] <Sput> hrhr LD
[19:36] <Sput> eh
[19:36] <Sput> XD
[19:41] <ScottK> claydoh: I'm not that familiar with kubuntuforums, so this may be totally in the wrong place: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3101429.0 - please move it somewhere better if there's a good spot.
[19:41] <ScottK> OK, so I've blogged on planet and trolled on kubuntuforums looking for KDE3 testers.  We'll see what happens.
[19:42] <davmor2> ScottK: are you not on planet Ubuntu>
[19:42] <ScottK> Will be in a minute.
[19:43] <ScottK> Unless of course planet is somehow hosed.  We'll see.
[19:46] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: I have modified the patch. Will attempt applying and building now.
[19:46] <JontheEchidna> ^_^
[19:46] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: btw: http://tmp.vuntz.net/opensuse-packages/browse.py
[19:46] <JontheEchidna> <3
[19:46] <rgreening> using KProcess to launch install-package and request to install flass-nonfree
[19:47] <rgreening> I assume thats correct
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> I think so, we could probably steal the code our adept modification uses to launch software-properties-kde
[19:47] <rgreening> thats what I was looking at.
[19:47] <rgreening> :)
[19:47] <JontheEchidna> lol
[19:48] <JontheEchidna> So how was the kde3 approach compared to this?
[19:48] <rgreening> But I didn't go as far as it does to disable the parent window
[19:48] <rgreening> this is mui el simple
[19:48] <rgreening> tres facile
[19:49]  * ScottK notes feature freeze in 10 days, but no pressure.
[19:51] <rgreening> I don't think ufw-kde will make it :( no time with everything else that's more important to do...
[19:52] <ScottK> I think that's correct prioritization.
[19:52] <ScottK> FWIW
[19:53] <rgreening> I know :) I need more hands and brain cells
[19:59] <Lure> ScottK: do you know if anybody is working on qt-creator packages? afair it should be released soon (arount qt 4.5 release)
[19:59] <Lure> ScottK: this would be great to get in before FF
[19:59] <ScottK> Not afaik.
[19:59] <ScottK> I'd look for a needs-packaging bug and see if anyone has said they are.
[19:59] <ScottK> You might look in Debian too.
[20:01] <Lure> ScottK: will check and open bug otherwise
[20:01] <rgreening> fabo was Lure / ScottK
[20:02] <Lure> rgreening: oh, great, will check with him then...
[20:07] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: btw, here's a bug number for debian/changelog: bug 203967
[20:09] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: cool. thanks.
[20:10] <Lure> is ppa upload warning about size something to be concerned (kubuntu-experimental)?
[20:10] <smarter> nop
[20:11] <rgreening> smarter: they are soon enforcing PPA size.
[20:11] <smarter> oh, didn't know that
[20:11] <rgreening> I was speaking with a LP dev today on it.
[20:11] <smarter> so we should probably ask for more spaces
[20:12] <rgreening> smarter: yes
[20:12] <rgreening> ScottK: ^^
[20:12] <rgreening> or JontheEchidna ^^
[20:12] <rgreening> :)
[20:12]  * JontheEchidna isn't admin of that team
[20:12] <rgreening> I have $WORK issues
[20:12] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ^^
[20:12]  * ScottK notes NCommander is the one that got us the PPA
[20:13]  * JontheEchidna wonders how far the referral chain can go :P
[20:13] <rgreening> thats the Private one not this one though, correct
[20:13] <JontheEchidna> The private one would need a size limit exception too though
[20:13] <rgreening> though it should be checked as well. 4GB for all opur PPA's should be what we need atm
[20:14] <rgreening> s/all/each/
[20:14] <rgreening> KDE takes ~2.5 - ~3.0GB
[20:14] <ScottK> I can pretty well guarantee you don't want me going to LP devs and asking for favors.
[20:14] <rgreening> lol
[20:15] <rgreening> I got mine set at 3GB
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> If I start building Qt regularly I'd probably want 2 GB
[20:17] <Tm_T> I would build Qt regularly if I had reasonable cpu powers to do it
[20:17] <Lure> rgreening: my upload warned me that we are above 4 GB
[20:17] <JontheEchidna> well, that's what PPA's are for
[20:18] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: not suitable for my use, I'd say
[20:18] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: regularly could mean daily
[20:18] <JontheEchidna> oh
[20:18] <rgreening> Lure: really. hmm...
[20:18] <Tm_T> I build KDE4 trunk several times every day
[20:18] <JontheEchidna> I just use it when I test patches every once and a while
[20:18] <rgreening> we prob need to delete some superceeded stuff
[20:18] <rgreening> Lure: ^
[20:19] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: I have been build Qt regularly... :(
[20:19] <Lure> rgreening: probably yes
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[20:23] <davmor2> Ha kubuntu oem failing is down to the nv driver
[20:24]  * smarter thought davmor2 was speaking dutch when reading the first half of his sentence
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> heh
[20:25] <davmor2> smarter: :P
[20:25] <smarter> :]
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> kubotu: chat about freaky-deaky dutch
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> kubotu: chat
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> kubotu: ping
[20:26] <kubotu> pong
[20:34] <rgreening> sugar.. my PPA is gone past 3GB now... dam lpia starting to successfully build
[20:35] <JontheEchidna> lol
[21:06] <ScottK> vorian: kpovmodeler currently recommends a package in multiverse.  It can't be in Main and do that.  Would you please look at it and see if it's better to keep it in Main and drop the recommeds to suggests or to move it to Multiverse?
[21:08] <ryanakca> nixternal: ping, what's the status on your build magic for help.kubuntu.org?
[21:17] <ScottK> ryanakca: I'll guess the answer is, "zomgosh, I am SOOO busy, I haven't got to it yet".
[21:28] <ryanakca> ScottK: *nod*, haven't seen him in a while, but then, I guess I haven't been around here lately either. Thanks :)
[21:39] <jpds> ryanakca: Don't get him excited.
[21:40] <jpds> 15:39:13 < nix.ternal> jeesh, had me excited there for a second..thought you wanted to give me some free money
[21:40] <ryanakca> heh.
[21:52] <Lure> any intrepid/experimental user around? does recent kdeedu works for you?
[21:53]  * Lure has fixed marble packaging to prevent digikam crashes and complaints from #kde-edu
[22:05] <danimo> somebody was looking for me?
[22:06] <claydoh> ScottK: I moved your post to Kubuntu announcements :)
[22:07] <ScottK> claydoh: Thanks.
[22:07] <ScottK> I'm expecting the usual amount of actual help I get from such requests, but at least I tried.
[22:07] <Lure> ok, if somebody has problem with kubuntu-experimental/kdeedu, direct him to my e-mail...
[22:07]  * Lure ->bed
[22:09] <ScottK> NCommander: kdebindings built on armel \o/
[22:09] <Sime> ScottK: for ARM based CPUs you mean?
[22:09] <ScottK> Sime: Yes.
[22:09] <Sime> ok, cool
[22:10] <ScottK> armel is our ARM port.
[22:10] <ScottK> 4.2.0
[22:10] <Sime> and IIRC, you've got a big patch which makes that possible.
[22:10] <ScottK> I think so, but I think it got submitted upstream.
[22:11] <ScottK> If not, let me know and I'll fix it.
[22:11] <Sime> I haven't seen anything.
[22:11] <Sime> upstream to where?
[22:11] <Sime> debian?
[22:12] <ScottK> OK.  No, I was thinking kde.org
[22:12] <ScottK> Let me look
[22:16] <ScottK> Sime: Looks like mostly we have a patched PyQt4 and http://pastebin.com/f579b37c6 - We've also disable nepomuk related bindings.
[22:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[22:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't know if you are aware of that
[22:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: but there is an issue with your amarok.... I thought it worked out, but after a reboot, it is broken...
[22:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: Error message:
[22:18] <Tonio_> QLibrary::load_sys: Cannot load /usr/lib/kde4/libamarok_collection-sqlcollection.so (libmysqlclient.so.16: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
[22:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I hope that helps... strange that it worked after a killall and restart.... but that's what happened
[22:19] <ScottK> Tonio_: For your koffice package, please be sure to drop kdelibs4-doc from depends/recommends since we aren't building it anymore.
[22:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: yup thanks for the reminder :)
[22:20] <ScottK> YW.  I was looking at NBS and koffice is the only rdepend left.
[22:26] <ScottK> Oh my.  armel build of kdepim 4:4.2.0-0ubuntu7 in ubuntu jaunty RELEASE   Started 8 hours ago   [ 38%] Building CXX object  ...
[22:27] <ScottK> So only ~13 hours to go.
[22:38] <martijn81> when i want to compile ktorrent from source, i get a cmake warning that kdepimlibs folder cannot be found
[22:38] <JontheEchidna> do you have kdepimlibs5-dev installed?
[22:38] <martijn81> do anyone of you know what this folder is renamed in?
[22:38] <martijn81> i have install kdepimlibs5 and kdepimlibs5-dev and it still does not work, see this-> http://pastebin.ca/1327506
[22:39] <martijn81> yeah, is installed
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[22:40] <Riddell> martijn81: it's looking for KDE 4.3
[22:40] <Riddell> we only package KDE 4.2
[22:41] <ScottK> Riddell: What do you think about Kubuntu ISOs for lpia and armel?
[22:42] <Riddell> ScottK: mm, does Ubuntu Desktop have them?
[22:42] <ScottK> lpia no.  Let me look at armel
[22:42] <Riddell> I mean those arches want more customised images for different install types I think
[22:43] <ScottK> Riddell: armel does have an Ubuntu Desktop image.
[22:43] <Riddell> where?
[22:44] <ScottK> Riddell: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily-live/current/jaunty-desktop-armel.iso
[22:44] <ScottK> The customized images are under mid and other dirs.
[22:44] <ScottK> I don't see a reason why standard images couldn't go in ports.
[22:45] <ScottK> rgreening has an lpia device he'd like to run Kubuntu on.
[22:45] <Riddell> I wonder what sort of hardware takes ARM ISO images
[22:45] <ScottK> In theory KDE 4.2 should ~work without the tons of customizations that Gnome needed.
[22:46] <ScottK> seele has an N810 that runs KDE 4.1.  Dunno how it got on there.
[22:46] <martijn81> Riddell: well, under kde 4.1.3 it worked well
[22:46] <ScottK> I think it'd be good to just provide standard Kubuntu Desktop images and see what people can do with them.
[22:47] <Riddell> here they have various curious thing http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mobile/releases/hardy/
[22:48] <ScottK> Actually I looked again and we have armel in our ports dir
[22:48] <ScottK> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/ports/daily-live/current/
[22:48] <Riddell> I'm all for getting Kubuntu on wee devices I just don't know if a CD ISO is any use as a format
[22:48] <ScottK> I missed it the first time I looked.
[22:49] <ScottK> rgreening seemed to think it'd be of use for him on his acer.
[22:50] <martijn81> but what can i do about this>
[22:50] <martijn81> ?
[22:50] <davmor2> ScottK: no cd in the acer
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> martijn81: oh, they changed some things in KDE 4.2
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> in the cmake build system
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> what version of ktorrent is this?
[22:51] <martijn81> subversion
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[22:51] <martijn81> the newest
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> don't know why it would fail then
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> unless its too new
[22:51] <ScottK> davmor2: OK.  Dunno what he thought he was going to do with it.
[22:52] <martijn81> JontheEchidna: the developer says it is out of his control
[22:52] <ScottK> davmor2: How does mobile get stuff on there?
[22:52] <davmor2> he might be planning on using the usb writer tool
[22:53] <davmor2> ScottK: normally they are .img files and you dd them to your usb device and boot of that
[22:53] <ScottK> I see.
[22:53] <martijn81> here see this-> http://ktorrent.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2860
[22:57] <martijn81> anyone knows what todo?
[23:00] <martijn81> well otherwise, how can i compile and ignore the warnings?
[23:09] <martijn81> nobody?
[23:11] <seele> ScottK: package fairies put it on there
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> what version of KDE again?
[23:13] <martijn81> JontheEchidna: 4.2
[23:13] <ScottK> seele: Did you see http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3879
[23:14] <seele> ScottK: whoa! no i didnt!
[23:14]  * seele adds it to the KDE Mobile page
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> martijn81: for some reason cmake is thinking that your KDE4 library directory is in /usr/lib
[23:14] <ScottK> I thought you'd be interested.
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> er
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> /usr/lib/cmake
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> when it needs to be /usr/lib
[23:16] <seele> ScottK: thanks for the link.. i don't keep up with all kdedevelopers stuff, just what shows up on planet
[23:16] <JontheEchidna> So that's how it fails, but I have no idea why
[23:16] <martijn81> JontheEchidna: so the cmake file needs to be changed here?
[23:16] <seele> oh duh.. it is on planet, i just didn't read my feeds recently enough
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> martijn81: well this is the line where it fails:
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> find_package(KdepimLibs ${KdepimLibs_FIND_VERSION} QUIET NO_MODULE PATHS ${KDE4_LIB_DIR}/KdepimLibs/cmake )
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> somewhere along the cmake chain it thinks ${KDE4_LIB_DIR} is /usr/lib/cmake
[23:18] <JontheEchidna> or at least I think that's the problem
[23:18] <JontheEchidna> though I am having second thoughts
[23:20] <martijn81> JontheEchidna: i will try the RC1 release and see whether that goes on
[23:26] <martijn81> JontheEchidna: the weird thing is that the RC1 release DOES compile
[23:26] <martijn81> so there must be something wrong in current svn
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[23:30] <martijn81> i reported it on the forums, lets see what it gives