[00:00] what is impressive with kde4 is the beautifullness of it [00:00] Hmm, well the next LTS is still quite far off [00:00] most people are just asking me (lots of gnomists at work...) [00:00] I did you tweak to get that ? [00:00] "bah this is just kde4 defaults, without any tweaking :)" [00:00] "really ??????????????????????????" [00:00] I honestly think that Jaunty will be the release where I can resonably expect a non-linux/non-kde expert to work with his system, configure his system, be happy with his system, and think it's beautiful at the same time. [00:00] that's so good to ear, hehe [00:01] astromme: needs to be a lot more stable [00:01] You've still got some months [00:01] astromme: current desktop stability is not even as good as vista [00:01] can't be compared to gnome [00:01] And it helps big time to send backtraces [00:01] or osx [00:01] or windows xp [00:01] not big bugs, but lots of little ones [00:01] that's the problem with it right now [00:02] Honestly (imho) the only way that stability will come is by distros testing and sending problem reports (including bt, etc) upstream. [00:02] astromme: yeah :) also the full plasma+dbus stuff makes it very difficult to backtrace for a lambda user.... [00:02] Because not only is it hard for developers to find every corner case, it's also not "as fun" to just sit for months looking for bugs to fix [00:03] astromme: debuging is probably more complicated for non developers with kde4... [00:03] True [00:03] Well, for plasma at least. For other things I think it's just as it was before [00:03] astromme: for apps it's just apps [00:04] for plasmoids, that's different [00:04] you can't just strace a process and look for the segfault.... [00:04] maybe a plasma monitor somehow would be usefull in the future to help reporting bugs [00:05] next big app we miss is a good and complete video player and also k3b.... then we're done feature compliant with kde3... [00:06] I think strueg is planing to polish k3b.... which sounds good [00:06] Eh, I find vlc good enough for my needs [00:07] and dragonplayer is there if you want the kde goodness with kio, etc [00:07] astromme: yeah, but not well desktop integrated [00:07] and doesn't make use of phonon [00:07] but phonon can use vlc so....... :) [00:07] astromme: kaffeine was more than just a video player [00:07] dvd player on the run too.... [00:07] that, we miss right now [00:09] time to sleep here, see you tomorrow :) [00:12] Dragonplayer is a dvd player.... Dragonplayer is a video player, network video player. I'm confused as to what's important that it lacks and kaffiene had (I know Tonio_ left, just putting my comments out there) [00:23] opensuse has a flash installation prompt patch too [00:23] rgreening may be interested [00:40] JontheEchidna or vorian: kopete-cryptography never got uploaded. It's in universe so ... [01:20] ScottK: so it needs updating? [01:36] segmentationfault on pyqt4 from the ppa with pyexpat: http://dpaste.com/116387/ [01:43] JontheEchidna: I assume it got released with the rest of extra-gear, but didn't get uploaded because it need kdepim-dev [01:43] Which we didn't have until today. [01:44] oh, I think vorian was working on that one (or at least not me :P) [01:45] JontheEchidna or vorian or nhandler or any other motu .... I've got KDE well along to building on lpia and started on armel. I'd appreciate it if someone would trigger retries on the universe plasmoids and such on lpia. We should have enough built now. [01:45] ok [01:47] Thanks. [01:48] I'm working through the extragear list now. [01:48] LDN sure likes to pick up on my stuff.. although this time around it is pretty good [01:48] http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/blog-entry/will-jackalope-finally-turn-kubuntu-around [01:49] Nobody did guidance-power-manager either. [01:49] * ScottK looks for smarter .... [01:49] ScottK: oh, well I just retried rsibreak since it has rdepend on libplasma3 [01:49] good for kubuntu that is, not good for me, heh [01:50] JontheEchidna: rsibreak isn't extreagear. [01:50] extra even [01:50] oh, right [01:51] * JontheEchidna mumbes about konqueror being unstable [01:51] My immediate reaction to his article isn't printable. [01:54] oh come on.. in the end it is a positive outlook for kubuntu. adept and translations are unarguable weaknesses of intrepid *and* we are switching to kpackagekit which seems to be what people want [01:57] translations should be back to hardy levels, I think [02:05] seele: I think the entire meme about 4.1 being unusable is complete crap. [02:05] "Oh dear, I can't have two rows on the taskbar, it's a friggin' unusable disaster". [02:06] Actually my printable response is sounds like you want Debian Lenny. [02:06] Which is fine, but don't bitch at us for not being Debian. [02:06] ScottK: it looks different than the old one -> it's unusable (;) [02:07] Plus I have limited patience from people who neither pay for this stuff nor help make it work. [02:07] ScottK: aye, useless bitching is, well, useless, AND bitching [02:08] debian is useless.. i get more questions about why stuff is broken in kde because of debian packaging than i do for ubuntu [02:08] ScottK: I usually challenge people to help, if they don't then I go and silence them usually [02:08] Debian is old. [02:08] If you want a stable, well tested boring desktop, it's great. [02:09] I don't put up with useless whining from my kids and I don't appreciate it from strangers any more. [02:09] * Tm_T huggles ScottK [02:09] we old and grumpy <3 [02:10] Just will the motrin to kick in faster so my headache goes away ... [02:11] ScottK: btw, most plasmoids seem to have built on armel [02:11] OK. [02:11] They probably built against 4.1.96 then [02:11] Urgh. [02:11] eek [02:12] It'd be worth a check to see if they build-dep on 4.2.0 [02:13] iirc most don't [02:17] We can fix it with the next upload or something. I doubt we'll get enough lpia usage to matter. [02:18] * ScottK notes that kpovmodeler says vorian on it and it says uploaded, but it's not. [02:19] with any luck there won't be an abi break for a while now that 4.2 has been released with libplasma in kdelibs [02:19] JontheEchidna: Up for a bit of extragear packaging? [02:19] need to finish these rebuilds [02:19] almost done [02:19] Looks like guidance-power-manager, kpovmodeler, and kopete-cryptography all need updating [02:19] Great. [02:22] * ScottK notes that there now exists a failed build for kdebindings on hppa, so maybe PAS got fixed (Soyuz failed to know to build it at all before). [02:23] ScottK: whoopsie, let me take care of that [02:23] done with universe plasmoids [02:23] ScottK: with my power outtage issue, i wasn't able to complete it [02:23] OK. [02:24] * ScottK wonders why it was marked uploaded then .... [02:24] Oh well, let's move on. [02:24] so, g-p-m? [02:24] JontheEchidna: So guidance-power-manager and kopete-cryptography are wanting doing. [02:24] Yeah. [02:35] Looks like we'll pick up two more working archictectures this week. That's good. [02:35] oh? [02:36] As in working on KDE, not new to the archive [02:36] lpia is making good progress and kde4libs is moving along on armel. [02:37] Now is someone would just update other ports kernels, we'd be in business. [02:38] is/if [02:38] ScottK: http://machine-crusade.net/kpov/ if you please :) [02:39] * ScottK grabs [02:47] ScottK: do you happen to know which guidance patches can be removed? [02:48] JontheEchidna: No. Usually those get pushed upstream right away, but no idea. [02:48] ok, thanks [02:49] * ScottK voted to remove it completely, but Riddell said no. [02:49] * ScottK has erased his brain of all he knew about guidance [02:49] looks like all of them can go \o/ [02:50] rm -rf debian/patches is so satisfying [02:50] ;-) [02:50] The uninstallable count for lpia went down by about half already. [02:50] ScottK and JontheEchidna: Do you still need retries for the plasmoids? [02:50] nhandler: I think I got them all [02:51] Ok JontheEchidna [02:51] kopete-cryptography still needs updating though [02:52] * nhandler is pretty worthless right now. His main laptop won't charge, so he is using a live cd [02:52] ouch [02:53] wow, guidance is a nice quick compile [02:55] JontheEchidna: Tell me about it. I don't feel like spending money to fix it, so I'll probably just get a new laptop [02:56] kopete-crypto uploaded [02:58] * vorian just purchased some major upgrades to his desktop [02:58] vorian: I just remembered I can't upload kpovmodeler right now anyway due to the freeze. [02:58] ah, good point [02:58] ScottK: at least its ready for fridayish [02:59] * ScottK will upload after the Alpha milestone. Please check and make sure I don't forget. [02:59] Yep. [02:59] will do [03:01] guidance-power-manager uploaded [03:02] JontheEchidna: it's still main, yes? [03:02] nope, demoted [03:03] excellent, at least it's not dropped [03:03] I also synced the bzr branch [03:04] I just saw a message on identi.ca about someone looking for help with the KDE Mexico website. I thought I might as well pass it along to this channel. [03:14] * ScottK was hoping for dropped. [03:36] * ScottK wonders what vorian thinks about the impressive results from his kopete-cryptography upload? [03:38] now we are a KDE4 cult : [03:38] http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3101189.msg168245#msg168245 [03:38] lmao [03:38] what in the world ... [03:39] claydoh: Did you see my ping about future release notes? [03:41] um, nope [03:42] * claydoh doesn't see it [03:43] * claydoh is tempted to either completely ignore forum crap posts or stop frequenting/moderating them at all [03:44] It's just as well I don't have an account there as the trouble of registering is enough to keep me off that thread. [03:45] * claydoh could get you in lol === ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Main Archive: frozen for alpha-4| claydoh new release notes dude \o/ | e-mail Riddell for STICKERS | Specs! http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs [03:45] endless sameness endless junk [03:46] I almost never look at forums and whenever I do my blood pressure goes up and I'm unhappy. [03:46] Then I don't repeat the experience for awhile. [03:47] * claydoh has high blood pressure for real, and it makes me boil [03:47] getting harder to keep my cool, and not be a 'fanboi' [03:48] Do me a favor and post something that says if you want KDE3, Lenny is that way ---> [03:48] oh well not dwelling on that, got more KDE4 Kult work to do :) [03:48] ScottK: already done by one of the regs [03:49] OK. [03:49] * ScottK stares at kdepim and figures our why Soyuz thinks kdepim-dev in uninstallable. [03:51] well that's cute. the latest plasma-n-m upload in jaunty doesn't seem to display anything unless it's attempting to associate ;) [03:52] plasmoid-n-m* [03:55] To quote what the kubuntu desktop seed comments say about hal, "it's not very polished but it's the future". [03:56] dtchen: Knm is still there, just doesn't autostart ... just in case . [04:02] Looks like it's Soyuz being brain dead about provides again. [04:04] vorian: The answer to why that failed is Soyuz not liking provides I'm pretty sure and kdenetwork needs the libboost transition done to it. [04:04] Since I'm pretty sure that doesn't affect anything in Main, it'll have to wait I think. [04:07] Oh damn. I do have an account on kubuntuforums. === santiago-pgsql is now known as san === san is now known as santiago-ve [04:12] * ScottK reads his reply and considers if he should report himself to the moderators. [04:22] * claydoh goes and bans ScottK s he has Tha Powa [04:22] i cannot build kdesudo package from the source package [04:23] see http://pastebin.ca/1326882 [04:23] ScottK: don't get sucked into the quagmire like I did [04:24] It'll be fun for a bit. [04:24] http://pastebin.ca/1326883 [04:25] EagleScreen: Install quilt. [04:27] claydoh: Can you shine me up with some kind of developer tag or whatever it is you all have on the kubuntu forums? [04:28] thanks that fixed this problem [04:28] EagleScreen: Would you like to know how you could have figured that out yourself? [04:28] yes, sure [04:29] The error says you're missing a file called patchsys-quilt.mk [04:29] yes [04:29] looking for in dpkg? [04:30] ScottK: Someone should really create a wiki page that explains some common things to look for in build logs and how to resolve them. [04:30] Go to packages.ubuntu.com and use "Search the contents of packages" and search for that filename. [04:30] EagleScreen: You'll see the search results tell you that file is in the package quilt. [04:31] nhandler: Go for it. Glad you volunteered. [04:31] i can remember tha there is a command to do that [04:31] You'll remember packages.ubuntu.com more easily though. [04:33] yes, it is more easily [04:33] but less quickly [04:34] Honestly I can never rember the other way. I just use p.u.c. [04:35] OK. kdewebdev-kde4 needs boost stuff too. [04:35] scottk: I might actually write it up. It isn't like I can do much else right now [04:35] More documentation is better. [04:36] Once you get it drafted, you might also then do a MOTU School session on it. [04:37] ScottK: Good idea. Maybe I can make up for not giving a session at open week or dev week [04:38] * ScottK doesn't see it as making up required. Volunteer as you will. [04:47] Strange problem - kdebase source package does not build [04:47] apt-get source kdebase, debuild binary fails. [04:48] patching file apps/kfind/kfind.desktop [04:48] Hunk #1 FAILED at 81. [04:48] on the package's internal diff?? [04:48] this seems very wrong to me. Have never been unable to build a deb before. [04:48] This is on intrepid... [04:52] Which version? [04:54] 8.10 [04:54] Which version of KDE? [04:54] kdebase-4.1.3 [04:54] kde4.1 as is currently shipping in intrepid [04:55] Obviously it built once. [04:55] Did you try it once, have a problem, then try again? [04:55] obsidian: ^^ [04:55] no [04:55] i mean [04:55] i have tried many times, many ways [04:56] have a friend here with me [04:56] repro'd problem on 2 intrepid machines [04:56] * ScottK tries. [04:56] build many debs from sources so many obvious things ( build-essential etc) are all there already [04:56] thank you for trying [04:56] for me it's just apt-get source kdebase [04:56] cd kdebase-4.1.3 [04:56] debuild binary [04:56] and it bombs [04:56] which freaks me out [04:56] I'm going to guess you tried more than once and it's either a bad patch or a buggy clean rule. [04:57] bad patc [04:57] Applying patch kubuntu_04_hide_kfind.diff [04:57] Hunk #1 FAILED at 81. [04:57] but how is that possible? [04:57] isn't packaging automated? [05:03] were you able to reproduce it? [05:03] skottk? [05:04] scottk? [05:04] Not yet [05:04] ah, [05:04] ok [05:04] My laptop is kind of slammed with another build and I'm set up to work on Jaunty packages .... [05:04] :D [05:05] we are trying to put together a patch [05:05] but can't test it cause can't build kdebase :( [05:06] I can't seem to get the build-deps right at the moment. [05:07] hmm [05:07] not sure I understand [05:07] I've got 4.1.4 installed. [05:07] k [05:07] And so I'm having a problem unrelated to yours. [05:07] i c [05:08] My recommendation is download the package again from the archive in a new directory. [05:08] Then without making any changes to that one try to build it. [05:08] we do that every time, unfortunately [05:08] * ScottK considers another way [05:08] this is pristine, apt-get source kdebase [05:09] cd kdebase-4.1.3 [05:09] debuild binary [05:09] * obsidian shrugs apology [05:10] and i wipe it all and start over with each new attempt [05:10] i have jaunty in a vm [05:10] it's booting up [05:11] curious to see if I can repro it there. [05:13] Getting the build-deps in a clean chroot now. [05:13] :D [05:19] obsidian: Worked fine here. [05:19] * obsidian eyes widen [05:19] trade computers? ;) [05:20] i guess we have the jinx over here [05:20] 2 diff. intrepid systems, both have it fail [05:20] same error [05:20] What is the exact error again? [05:20] And how are you starting the build? [05:20] ready for a copy paste? [05:20] I say [05:20] apt-get source kdebase [05:20] cd kdebase-4.1.3 [05:20] debuild binary [05:20] and I get (after some preamble): [05:20] make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/obsidian/Projects/kde/kdebase-4.1.3' [05:21] cd . && QUILT_PATCHES=/home/obsidian/Projects/kde/kdebase-4.1.3/debian/patches quilt --quiltrc /dev/null push -a || test $? = 2 [05:21] Applying patch kubuntu_04_hide_kfind.diff [05:21] patching file apps/kfind/kfind.desktop [05:21] Hunk #1 FAILED at 81. [05:21] 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file apps/kfind/kfind.desktop [05:21] Patch kubuntu_04_hide_kfind.diff does not apply (enforce with -f) [05:21] make: *** [debian/stamp-patched] Error 1 [05:21] debuild: fatal error at line 1305: [05:21] couldn't exec debian/rules: [05:21] Just debuild. [05:21] just debuild binary [05:21] Let it build the source package too. [05:22] ... [05:22] it is the source package? [05:22] ok just debuild you say? [05:22] no binary argument? [05:23] If I do debuild binary I can replicate it. [05:23] ahhhh [05:23] ok so just "debuild" [05:23] if you do debuild and build both it'll work. [05:23] fascinating [05:23] * obsidian is trying it [05:23] ScottK: hi [05:24] Heya rgreening. [05:24] hey so why have i never had htis problem before? [05:24] konversation kde4 seems to work dandy [05:25] I build lots & lots of pkgs this way [05:25] or by debian/rules binary [05:25] 1st time it failed. [05:25] yeah that worked btw [05:25] THANK YOU! [05:25] :D [05:27] When you call debuild binary you're telling it to run a specific part of debian/rules. That's (as you know) not what you want. [05:27] obsidian: You're welcome. [05:28] obsidian: If you want to just build the binary it's -b or -B (I don't recall). See man dpkg-buildpackage. [05:28] I clearly am still climbing the deb learning curve :) [05:28] No problem. Glad I could help. [05:28] our patch will fix kde3 applications that run on kde4 [05:29] currently none of them can succesfully integrate with konqueror or help, or other things [05:29] they all throw an error when attempting to launch them [05:29] there's an open issue or two on this [05:29] ScottK: I am here with obsidian [05:29] Here is the bug we're talking about [05:29] :D [05:29] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/120006 [05:29] Launchpad bug 120006 in amarok "Amarok's bug reporting reports error'kfmclient'" [Low,Incomplete] [05:30] Well Amarok in Jaunty is Amarok2, so not a problem. [05:30] right but there are still other kde3 apps [05:30] OK. [05:30] and anything in them that launches a browser, help, even bug reporting will fail ;) [05:30] I actually discovered this problem in digiKam [05:31] That'll also be a KDE4 version in Jaunty. [05:31] and he figured out the fix, too :) [05:31] Great. [05:31] So I heard [05:31] I was just trying (feebly) to help get a fix into a patch that might be useful :) [05:31] If it's not a technically risk patch, I can see the benifit. [05:31] risk/risky [05:32] All it is is to create a symlink [05:32] From /usr/share/applications/kde4/kfmclient* [05:32] You might do better to work on the 4.2 packages in kubuntu-experimental. Those are very close to what we have in Jaunty right now. [05:32] to /usr/share/applications/kde/ [05:32] these patches can probably be applied even there. [05:32] very simple. [05:32] one to kdelibs, one to kdebase [05:33] few lines [05:33] would be curious to get your thoughts [05:33] let's see if this builds, then open an issue and you can read it [05:33] I won't argue it. It's very late here and I'm quite tired. [05:33] us too :D [05:34] if we open it on kdebase/kdelibs will you see it? [05:34] or if not I'll also paste the link here [05:34] later when we finish it [05:37] I won't and I'm not the best person to review it anyway. You can subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug after you attach the fix. [05:38] thank you for the advice [05:39] You're welcome. Thank you for working to make Kubuntu better. [05:40] Aw, this was work? [05:40] I thought we were just having fun :D [05:40] have a good night man :) [05:40] Well that's true of almost all of us. [05:40] There's only one paid dev on Kubuntu. [05:41] The rest of us are here for fun. [05:41] right on. [05:44] rgreening: I got all but three KDE core packages built or queued for lpia. [05:44] So by tomorrow we ought to be good on lpia almost all the way around (actually it's 4) [05:45] Need to upload the boost changes for kdenetwork before that'll build. [05:45] That has to wait until after the Alpha. [05:48] Riddell: kpovmodeler is in Main and on the DVD, but recommends package in multiverse. It looks to me like it will have to be moved .... [05:48] Good night all. I'm off to bed. [05:49] good night! [08:01] ScottK: hmm, that shouldn't be like that [08:20] Is it by-design that knetworkmanager no longer starts automagically after logon? [08:21] Jaunty/4.2.0 btw [08:22] yes, to encourage testing of plasmoid-network-manager [Dmr [08:30] Riddell: ok, started thinking I was crazy ;) [08:30] Riddell: I'll give plasmoid-network-manager a try then [08:35] so is there a current kpackage kit ppa for intrepid? [08:37] Riddell: hi, btw, Pastebin widget works now, with pastebin.com [08:38] still have problems with folderview for remote folders though [08:38] hi there [08:38] * Tonio_ tracks a strange kmail bug fedora doesn't have with kde4 [09:44] ScottK: backports view on bug 325221 ? [09:44] Launchpad bug 325221 in intrepid-backports "Please UN-backport Brasero 0.9.1 since it's breaking non-English systems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/325221 [10:06] Hey there, I made some artwork for a kde application (kdenlive), what would be a good license for it? [10:07] I heard some creative commons licenses are not compatible with gpl [10:07] Ebdomos: if you don't mind, going with the upstream project licence is probably the best and easiest way :) [10:08] Ebdomos: in any case BSD like licence avoids any kind of issue :) [10:08] thanks [10:08] Ebdomos: and for my own, I usually use the WTFPL licence [10:08] oh gosh [10:09] Ebdomos: same as bsd, but without anything complicated in it to understand :) [10:09] Ebdomos: not a, joke, I really find it usefull for my needs [10:09] what about proprietary venders taking your work [10:10] and not redistributing the changes? [10:10] Ebdomos: I don't care [10:10] Tonio_: your much more relaxed than I am :) [10:10] Ebdomos: oxygen icons uses the GPL 3+, KDE policy requires BSD, GPL 2+ or GPL 3+ [10:10] Ebdomos: I don't plan to make money with my work :) [10:11] Riddell: in terms of artwork, many people use CC, why is that? [10:11] Ebdomos: I prefer to see MS using ssh by default than reinventing the wheel with something uncompatible with us [10:11] actually oxygen is LGPL v3+ [10:11] Ebdomos: CC causes problems for some distros, notably Debian [10:12] Ebdomos: think about how usefull and widelly deploied ssh is and you'll understand the benefits of the bsd licence :) [10:12] Sput: good point [10:12] lgpl is nice for artwork since it can be reused by proprietary apps in order not to break the global artwork [10:12] plus BSD and GPL are *not* compatible, and GPL'd projects need to specifically add an exception if they want to allow to link to openssl, for example [10:13] Sput: BSD and GPL are compatible [10:13] so I'm not sure if going with BSD makes sense [10:13] openssl isn't BSD, that's why it causes problems [10:13] oh? [10:13] Sput: they are... [10:13] lgpl3 I guess it is then [10:14] Sput: I don't think BSD can be incompatible with any other licence, but I may be wrong.... [10:14] depends on the advertising clause [10:14] Riddell: would you like PNM in the panel ? [10:14] I don't think BSD-with-advertising is compatible with GPL [10:14] Tonio_: it should already be so [10:14] Riddell: great :) [10:14] Sput: right, BSD-with-advertising is what openssl uses, and that's evli [10:15] Ebdomos: LGPL 3+, good choice :) [10:15] ah I see they have removed that clause in recent versions of the BSD license, so yeah, newer versions are compatible [10:15] not the original though [10:15] but yeah, for KDE artwork LGPLv3+ is probably sanest : [10:16] :) [10:16] I sometimes would like to make people think about the benefits of the BSD licence :) this sounds so shocking for linux users, but terribly true... [10:16]