[04:12] <ScottK> lool: You seemed really on the ball about lanaguage issues with the xinelib SRU issue that recently came up.  I was wondering if you would be willing to take a look at Bug #325221
[06:49] <Hobbsee> fta: thanks for your thunderbird package - i've finally tried it now.  it's quite a change!
[08:33]  * slangasek bzr merges and hugs jelmer 
[08:42] <mathiaz> cjwatson: where can I find the cpio command used to create the initrd.gz file shipped on isos?
[08:43] <Mithrandir> in debian-installer, I suspect.
[08:47] <mathiaz> Mithrandir: thanks!
[09:02] <cjwatson> mathiaz: what Mithrandir said. Specifically:
[09:02] <cjwatson> define mkinitramfs
[09:02] <cjwatson>   (cd $(TREE) && find . | cpio --quiet -o -H newc) >
[09:02] <cjwatson> endef
[09:02] <cjwatson>         initramfs) \
[09:02] <cjwatson>                 $(mkinitramfs) $(TEMP)/initrd; \
[09:02] <cjwatson>                 gzip -v9f $(TEMP)/initrd; \
[09:02] <cjwatson>         ;; \
[09:03] <cjwatson> or abbreviate as '(cd $TREE && find . | cpio --quiet -o -H newc) | gzip -9c > $TEMP/initrd.gz
[09:03] <cjwatson> '
[09:13] <Chipzz> talking about debian-installer... has anyone ever tested ftp://ftp.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/gtk/ ?
[09:15] <Chipzz> been doing a lot of installs of lenny with the debian equivalent of that lately, and wondering how well that works on ubuntu/if it's tested/supported
[09:16] <slangasek> it's not widely exercised, because Ubuntu has its own graphical installer
[09:16] <Chipzz> I'm aware of that :)
[09:16] <directhex> i've not used gtk d-i
[09:16] <Chipzz> but does it get tested, or is it there just because debian builds it, and we get it for free?
[09:16] <directhex> but i've scripted dapper d-i before
[09:17] <slangasek> Chipzz: QAing the gtk installer isn't part of the Ubuntu release process at all
[09:19] <Chipzz> right, I would have expected that; but has anyone actually ran it to see if there's any semblence of it working at all, or not? :)
[09:19] <tjaalton> I've tried it, doesn't work
[09:20] <Chipzz> that's what I wanted to know, thx :)
[09:20] <tjaalton> needs porting libgtk+2.0-directfb to the current version
[09:21] <Chipzz> I might give it a shot anyway, maybe there have been improvements lately :)
[09:22] <tjaalton> no, it'll fail
[09:22] <davmor2> Chipzz: I'm about to test it now for the first time on jaunty cycle
[09:23] <Chipzz> tjaalton: about the porting; isn't that package built from the regular gtk+ source?
[09:23] <tjaalton> Chipzz: yes, ask seb128 how hard it is to maintain :)
[09:25] <tjaalton> does tar have a 2GB limit on 32bit systems, or why does dpkg -c fail listing a huge (2,7GB) dpkg on hardy?
[09:25] <Chipzz> I'ld expect that the ubuntu package is roughly the same as the debian package
[09:25] <Chipzz> but maybe the libdirectfb package is the problem?
[09:26] <davmor2> Chipzz: meh sorry no I'm testing standard netboot sorry misread the link
[09:39] <StevenK> directhex: So a whole bunch of Mono pre-2.0 is ending up in NBS, do you want to deal with f-spot and tomboy after alpha-4, or you have it handled?
[09:40] <StevenK> Er, do you want me to deal with
[09:40] <directhex> StevenK, what are the specifics?
[09:42] <StevenK> directhex: Both f-spot and tomboy Build-Depend and Depend on libgnome2.0-cil, which is NBS
[09:42] <directhex> ah, yes
[09:42] <directhex> f-spot is almost ready for syncing, but requires a mono-addins sync first
[09:42] <directhex> Laney prepared f-spot
[09:43] <DktrKranz> doko, mind looking at bug #324636 ?
[09:43] <directhex> tomboy i'm not sure where we stand, let me check
[09:43] <StevenK> directhex: Do you have a bug for mono-addins sync?
[09:43] <directhex> StevenK, bug 324741
[09:44] <StevenK> Right, it just needs a sponsor
[09:44] <directhex> right, f-spot 0.5.0.3-1 in experimental is free from libgnome2.0-cil
[09:45] <directhex> just checked
[09:45] <StevenK> \o/
[09:45] <directhex> and tomboy 0.12.2-2
[09:45] <StevenK> directhex: Getting those two sorted out rips out like 4 or 5 Mono bits, which makes me happy
[09:46] <directhex> StevenK, good. that was the plan!
[09:46] <directhex> i promised savings, i'm sure i promised savings ;)
[09:46] <doko> DktrKranz: please wait until Debian uploads the new .orig.tar.gz
[09:46] <StevenK> I'm the Steve who cares about archive consistency, the other Steve archive admin cares about CD savings
[09:48] <directhex> StevenK, the gnome# 2.24 transition was unexpected & unfortunate. i would normally expect abi-stability in a minor version update, but hey ho
[09:48] <DktrKranz> doko: ok, I'll keep it under my radar, thanks.
[09:49] <StevenK> directhex: It happens
[09:50] <directhex> StevenK, apparently so. we also made an executive decision not to do mono 2.2, since it reveals bugs in pretty much every app (bugs which need patching to fix FTBFS) and frankly we don't have the energy to do it for jaunty
[09:51] <StevenK> directhex: Hehe, it can wait for Jaunty+1
[09:53] <directhex> StevenK, upstream these days seems to be on a crusade to make life hard. 3-month major release cycle, no bugfix releases. we might jump to 2.4 when it's released & just harden it the way we have to lenny's 1.9.1
[09:55] <directhex> i lost count of the number of patches we had to apply for that
[10:08] <slangasek> superm1: are you aware of any reason that 30-keymap-dell.fdi shouldn't map the 'CRT|LCD' hoktey to KEY_SWITCHVIDEOMODE, which X receives and g-s-d honors, instead of KEY_DISPLAYTOGGLE which X can't see and hal doesn't handle?
[10:21] <lool> ScottK: Hmm sorry, I'm not sure how I can help with #325221; I'm not into l10n particularly, I don't use brasero, nor intrepid and backports, and I don't understand the issue nor the symptoms   :-/
[10:40] <pitti> superm1: wrt. slangasek's question, it's on http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2009-February/012938.html
[11:10] <ScottK> lool: OK.  Thanks for looking.
[11:17] <directhex> ScottK, anything more i can help you with?
[11:19] <ScottK> If you can figure out what brasero is switching languages on people (see Bug #325221), that'd be highly useful.
[11:20] <directhex> mmm, C. out of my zone of competence, really
[11:22] <seb128> brasero is likely unsetting the translation domain or something
[11:22] <seb128> would be worth looking upstream if they got bugs about that and fixed it
[11:25] <TheMuso> c
[11:25] <TheMuso> c
[11:25] <TheMuso> gah
[12:15] <ScottK> pitti: With the exception of reverification of Bug #290768 after the security update, I believe we've tested everything for getting KDE 4.1.4 to -updates from -proposed.  I don't imagine you'll want to deal with it until next week, but I think we are in good shape for it.
[12:40] <McEnroe> Quick question: is the default ubuntuan pulseaudio server per-user or system wide?
[12:42] <slangasek> per-user
[12:58] <McEnroe> slangasek: thanks
[13:03] <IntuitiveNipple> Is it intentional to have two identical 'sound' icons in the notification area; the volume applet and 'sound preferences' ?
[13:07] <tjaalton> IntuitiveNipple: no, the applet is "obsolete"
[13:07] <IntuitiveNipple> gnome-volume-control-applet, you mean?
[13:08] <IntuitiveNipple> OK... I assume mixer_applet2 is the 'new' one? Is that related to the pulseaudio volume control?
[13:08] <tjaalton> no applet, pulseaudio uses the notification area now
[13:09] <IntuitiveNipple> But, I presume the process is the '/usr/lib/gnome-applets/mixer_applet2 --oaf-activate-iid=OAFIID:GNOM' ?
[13:10] <IntuitiveNipple> As long as this isn't a bug :)
[13:11] <tjaalton> I don't have that running
[13:13] <IntuitiveNipple> hmmm... this is testing the daily 0203.1 liveCD (amd64) on Sony Vaio VGN-FE41Z (HDA StAC92xx audio)
[13:13] <IntuitiveNipple> I didn't see the two identical icons with the alpha 3 live CD
[13:15] <IntuitiveNipple> eeek Ubiquity/partman is causing the kernel to *lose* two partitions ... that's one more than the alpha-3 installer lost!
[13:49] <[diablo]> afternoon all... is there anyone around familiar with the RT kernel please?
[14:29] <cjwatson> Chipzz: as mentioned, it's known not to work at the moment, and we may stop building it again. Ubuntu is a major version of GTK ahead of Debian, and it turns out that there were some changes made to GTK in that cycle that changed the interface with GDK backends, and the X backend was updated but not the DirectFB backend. The update is non-trivial
[14:30] <cjwatson> Chipzz: we'd like to offer it but it may be that now is just an unlucky time
[15:15] <superm1> slangasek, pitti let me double check some things on a real system before i give an answer
[15:15] <superm1> slangasek, i uploaded a fixed mythtv and mythplugins.  can you queue a rebuild of live disks for mythbuntu with them now?
[15:16] <slangasek> superm1: sure - are 0ubuntu6, 0ubuntu4 the target versions?
[15:24] <pitti> ScottK: great to hear! so the second regression you were talking about was just the missing dependency?
[15:24] <slangasek> superm1: so we went back and looked at the Dell we were basing this on, and it actually has both a switchvideomode key /and/ a displaytoggle key; but g-s-d *does* a display toggle, when it receives the switchvideomode key, and there's no handling for displaytoggle at all in the stack :)
[15:24] <superm1> slangasek, what model was this?
[15:25] <seb128> slangasek: it doesn't really do a display toggle, it turns between configurations
[15:25] <seb128> slangasek: ie, xinerama, clone, laptop, projector, etc
[15:25] <slangasek> superm1: Inspiron 1505
[15:25] <slangasek> seb128: ok - it does a display "rotate" :)
[15:27] <superm1> slangasek, okay i'll try to get a good look at a variety of inspirons then... i know that i verified the current setup was working properly for many laptops display switch hotkeys in intrepid, i'll just reverify everything with jaunty paying attention to these two key symbols
[15:27] <slangasek> seb128: my point is that what it doesn't do is rotate through available resolutions
[15:27] <seb128> no, but not really toggle the display either
[15:28] <slangasek> superm1: sorry, I'm getting mixed up - it's not the Inspiron that had both the switchvideomode and displaytoggle buttons
[15:28] <slangasek> seb128: I think the current behavior is completely in line with what I would understand as "display toggling"
[15:30] <seb128> right
[15:30] <slangasek> superm1: in any case, intrepid vs. jaunty is definitely a difference here; g-s-d upstream provides better xrandr handling of the XF86Display (== switchvideomode) and we dropped an upstream patch that was interfering with this
[15:31] <slangasek> superm1: pitti and I independently reached the conclusion that this should be changed, so I'm fairly confident that it's correct - but would of course still be happy to have your review
[15:31]  * superm1 nods
[15:31] <seb128> slangasek: I'm wondering if upstream picked f7 because f8 is broken
[15:32] <seb128> or rather f8 doesn't trigger any xev
[15:32] <slangasek> seb128: you mean the 'switchvideomode' instead of 'displaytoggle'?  I think that's fairly certain
[15:32] <seb128> yes
[15:56] <lool> Keybuk: Did you intend to upload bootchart 0.9-0ubuntu8keybuk3 to jaunty?
[15:58] <Keybuk> Do I?
[15:58] <Keybuk> or Did I?
[16:00] <lool> Keybuk: Did you?
[16:01] <lool> Keybuk: It was uploaded, is it a mistake?
[16:01] <Keybuk> yes, was supposed to go to PPA
[16:03] <ion_> Why does dput have a default upload host again? :-)
[16:04] <henrik-hw0> Keybuk: regarding our talk earlier. did you find out anything of significance?
[16:05] <Keybuk> henrik-hw0: you didn't respond to my last question; grep for the module name in /etc/modprobe.d
[16:05] <henrik-hw0> Keybuk: Ah. I blame communication over the device we debugged. :/
[16:09] <henrik-laptop-hw> Keybuk: grepping for the module name in /etc/modprobe.d shows nothing
[16:10] <Keybuk> henrik-laptop-hw: no idea then, modprobe is being called
[16:10] <Keybuk> could be simply a module bug
[16:10] <henrik-laptop-hw> Keybuk: Alright. thanks for your help.
[16:30] <slangasek> superm1: mythbuntu candidates up
[16:51] <superm1> slangasek, thanks. i'll let my folks know to grab and test away
[18:43] <wolfeySI> hello guys i just tracerouted si.archive.ubuntu.com
[18:43] <wolfeySI> and you use one of worst possible servers for slovenian users
[18:43] <wolfeySI>  leningradskaya.canonical.com
[18:43] <wolfeySI> if that's russia
[18:43] <wolfeySI> that's far network wise
[18:43] <wolfeySI> .sk, .de, .it, .at, .hr would all be so much better
[18:44] <wolfeySI> just a thought, i changed to .de mirror long ago, but didnt traceroute until now
[18:44] <wolfeySI> so newbies get 1 kB/s download at updating ubuntu
[18:48] <pochu> wolfeySI: hi, I think #ubuntu-mirrors is the right channel for such suggestions
[18:49] <wolfeySI> ok thx
[20:53] <ScottK> pitti: re KDE 4.1.4, the second regression I mentioned before turned out to be a user configuration error unrelated to KDE.  The kdebluetooth missing dependency came up since, but was easy enough to verify.  The xine-lib SRU verification is really the only think that needs doing I think.
[20:55] <maxb> If two packages (bzr+bzrtools) need to be synced together, do I file two sync request bugs or one mentioning both?
[22:01] <dtchen> the cryptsetup/udev note in the jaunty alpha 4 release notes erroneously refers to an ltsp bug when it should refer to bug 325690
[22:02] <ScottK> dtchen: The wiki version of the tech overview is still editable.
[22:06] <neXyon> greetings
[22:43] <imme> uhm, how can I get jaunty to start gnome completely?
[22:47] <ScottK> imme: #ubuntu+1 for Jaunty support
[22:49] <imme> merci ScottK
[22:53] <ScottK> imme: You're welcome.
[22:59] <superm1> pitti, slangasek it looks like it's still doing the right thing on the handful of machines i've looked at with jaunty and that updated hal-info.  if i come across any with the wrong behavior i'll let you know
[22:59] <slangasek> superm1: ack, thanks
[23:03] <superm1> re the mythbuntu disks, looks like there might actually be a ubiquity regression.  i'll have to give it a more thorough look later on
[23:25] <calc> evolution is a big pos
[23:26] <calc> i just crashed it several times in a row just trying to view a message
[23:26] <calc> nothing weird with the messsage it was an old one i already read
[23:27] <calc> now it crashes every time i even try to search
[23:27] <calc> i wish thunderbird could sort
[23:28] <calc> maybe i just need to setup my own imap server to do server side filtering, so i can switch to thunderbird
[23:29] <directhex> surely you must be used to bloaty unmaintainable monsters, calc?
[23:34]  * ScottK whispers kmail to calc.
[23:36] <Keybuk> scottK: you mean Kreationism?
[23:36] <ScottK> It's actually one of the KDE apps that I understand has a big following among Gnome users.
[23:37] <jdong> does that require Oracle DBMS or something? ;-)
[23:37] <ScottK> Mysql unfortunately.
[23:38] <jdong> out of curiousity, what is the justification for what I feel is a overuse of MySQL in KDE4?
[23:38] <jdong> I really don't see much that a smaller/lighter DB backend couldn't have done
[23:39] <ScottK> They've got this thing called Akonadi that is meant to be the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything.
[23:39] <ScottK> It uses Mysql.
[23:39] <ScottK> That's the Kmail answer.
[23:39] <ScottK> The Amarok answer is when they were looking for help, the Mysql people volunteered to help them and did.  No one else was as interested.
[23:39] <jdong> it's the ultimate answer for making sure I structure my home directory how AppArmor wants it :)
[23:41] <ScottK> That too.
[23:44] <jdong> btw KDE 4.2 is pretty nicely polished overall now, I am impressed
[23:44] <jdong> the big area of work IMO is still with handling laptop multimedia keys
[23:44] <jdong> that whole kubuntu xmodmap thing needs to DIE :)
[23:57] <ScottK> jdong: We have pretty good luck with getting stuff fixed upstream.
[23:57] <ScottK> What we lack in this area is someone with enough focus and technical understanding to communicate it effectively.
[23:58] <ScottK> So please feel free to join us ....