/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/02/05/#ubuntu-ops.txt

Jack_Sparrownickrud Is it a full moon...00:35
nikrud3/4's00:52
Flannelgibbous!00:54
nickrud_work day is done. Time for food!01:01
ubottuGrant-A called the ops in #ubuntuforums ()03:08
Grant-AUm03:27
Grant-AI have an issue with ops and others flaming me in #ubuntuforums03:27
Grant-Aand trolling03:27
Grant-AI have some screenshots and a very extensive chat log03:28
Grant-AI figure if it continues I could take it up with the freenode staff...03:28
Grant-Ait's quite a few screenshots, so what would be the preferred method of showing them?03:29
Grant-AA pastebin full of the imageshack urls?03:29
FlannelGrant-A: Sure03:46
Grant-Aalright03:47
Grant-Alet me get all this uploaded03:47
Grant-AI have a very large resolution screen, so this could take a bit03:48
Grant-Auh oh03:50
Grant-Aimageshack is compressing them03:50
Grant-Awill a zipfile work ok?03:50
Grant-Ayeesh! 34m!03:53
Grant-AI'll have to make these jpegs03:53
jribwow03:53
Grant-Ayeah, it's quite an extensive amount of evidence03:53
jribusually, you just keep logs as text instead of taking screenshots.  Is that no longer possible?03:53
Grant-Aincluding whois screenshots, channel screenshots, and text logs03:53
Grant-Awell, I figured that the screenshots would hold more weight03:54
Grant-Ain terms of evidence03:54
FlannelGrant-A: If you had both, we could read the text, and verify with screenshots as need be.  If you still can do text logs03:54
Grant-Awell, I do have logs03:54
tritiumtext is easier for grepping03:55
Grant-Awould you like me to pastebin them?03:55
FlannelPlease03:55
Grant-Ahttp://pastebin.com/m2210d45e03:55
Grant-Ahttp://pastebin.com/m1bc8d47c03:56
Grant-AI have a witness aswell03:56
Grant-Athe whois lists the people who I had problems with03:56
Grant-AThe problems ranged from malicious commands to trolling03:57
Grant-Aone even went as far as to mock me with a fake mibbit account called "Brant-B"03:57
Grant-AJacob and EDavidBurg are ops, if I'm not mistaken03:57
Grant-Awhich makes this all the more troubling03:57
Grant-AHence why I took screenshots, as I figured that they would probably deny this03:58
jribGrant-A: what lines should we be looking at?03:59
Grant-Alet me see...03:59
Grant-A6 was when EDavidBurg told me to stick rm -rf into my shutdown command04:00
Grant-A13 is where he tried to convince me to use it04:01
Grant-A81-83 is where P_Quarels harrassed me a bit04:02
Grant-A85- I counter04:02
Grant-A87 & 88 pretty immature behavior; trolling04:02
Grant-A95... more trolling...04:02
Grant-A97- EDavidBurg... again...04:03
Grant-A101 - trolling04:03
Grant-A136- Flaming04:03
Grant-A131- Cussing04:03
Grant-A124- trolling04:04
Grant-A(sorry for the out of order part there)04:04
Grant-AI scrolled a bit too fast04:04
Grant-A106- Justifying of flaming04:04
Grant-A142-164: trolling04:05
boredandbloggingwhere is jacob giving you trouble?04:05
Grant-A171-184: Me asking them to stop04:05
Grant-Aboredandblogging: 205-21604:06
Grant-A190-194: I try to change the subject04:06
jribin the beginning EDavidBurg doesn't address you, so his comment could be part of some earlier conversation before line 1.  The other stuff honestly isn't trolling.  Just some discussion about the color of lights going back and forth04:07
Grant-A195-202... Brant B04:07
Grant-A202+ trainwreck04:08
Grant-Athey kept going "prove it, prove it" to everything I said04:08
Grant-Athat was pretty much trolling04:08
Grant-Aand they ganged up on me04:08
Grant-Awell, I can go further back into the chat log to show that EDavidBurg was not trying to talk to someone else there04:09
Grant-Ahttp://pastebin.com/m1bc8d47c04:12
Grant-Athere is further back into the log04:12
Grant-AI can go farther back to 30 minutes, if you would like04:12
Grant-A*30 minutes before that04:12
Grant-Aso... what are we going to do?04:14
Grant-Awell, thanks for your help04:29
Grant-AI will continue to persue this issue tomorrow04:29
Grant-Aperhaps with the freenode staff04:29
Grant-Aseeing as they were trolling with freenode proxies04:29
Grant-Abye~04:29
* Flannel is still reading.04:30
FlannelEh, he left.04:30
boredandbloggingFlannel: don't see much where Jacob did anything04:31
Flannelboredandblogging: No, I don't either.  I think at that point he was in a "Everyone who says anything to me that isn't in agreement is out to get me" defensive mode04:32
boredandbloggingFlannel: agreed04:32
FlannelWe probably ought to get himback in here and talk him out of that mode.04:34
Flannelboredandblogging: then again, as an operator, he really shouldn't have let that go on as long as it did.04:35
FlannelI'm sure we're not getting the full story, and I don't mean to imply that Grant is entirely innocent, but it was just a situation that got out of hand, and it really shouldn't have gone on.04:37
boredandbloggingFlannel: yeah, some more background would be good04:42
FlannelHi demolition, how can we help you?04:45
demolitionHello I have an issue with being banned on the ubuntu channel since my roomate is the one that got me kicked out I told him not to do that anymore and was wondering if you could unblock the channel so I can use it since I have ubuntu also04:45
demolitionhe was using his account but you guys blocked our whole ip address04:47
demolitionnow im not able to get in04:47
Flanneldemolition: Generally lying is a bad idea, it certainly won't get you unbanned any faster.04:48
Flanneldemolition: Are you aware of our channel guidelines, and the code of conduct?04:48
demolitionwhat makes you think that two people dont live in a house04:49
Flanneldemolition: Not that.  I suppose I should ask ou to specify, what sort of separate account do you mean?04:50
demolitionok we run on the same network address he uses szrhawaii 04:50
demolitionas an account name 04:50
demolitionso we have two different account names but run on the same network 04:51
bazhangdemolition, I recall the situation04:51
demolitiondoes that help clarify 04:51
FlannelThis is ancillary anyway.  Have you read our IRC guidelines, and code of conduct?04:51
Flanneldemolition: You might look into getting separate user accounts on your machine.04:51
Flanneldemolition: (but again, this isn't important right now)04:52
demolitionhow do i go about that 04:52
demolitionand where are the guidelines at 04:52
Flanneldemolition: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct04:52
bazhangdemolition, just a second04:52
Flanneldemolition: Please read them and understand them.  And have your roommate do the same.04:53
stdindemolition: then why were you in #kubuntu-offtopic as szrhawaii ?04:53
Flannelbazhang: mute too04:53
bazhangFlannel, cheers04:53
demolitioni told you running on the same network 04:53
bazhangdemolition, please try to rejoin now04:54
demolitionill try 04:54
demolitionthank you guys 04:54
bazhangdemolition, try to speak04:55
demolitionappreciate it and now ill tell him not to do that anymore04:55
bazhangthe python script for xchat is behaving oddly; may have to learn the manual method for operations05:03
nickrudohnoes, not manual05:15
bazhangheh05:16
bazhangevery time I remove a ban, I get the entire ban list displayed; first time I thought it was removing all bans05:16
nickrudah, a Jack Sparrow :)05:17
bazhangthought he banned everyone; good thing it was not kb05:17
nickrudany catastrophic mass action is a Jack Sparrow05:18
* nickrud is just trying to get it labeled, before he does something that gets it named after himself05:19
stdinbazhang: have you run /cs update recently? I remember that being an old bug05:30
bazhangstdin, thanks, will give it a try05:32
stdineek, server error. guess downloading wont work05:34
stdinI have version 1.0.12 anyway05:34
bazhangjust have to ban alot less :)05:35
nickrudI'm glad to see I'm not the only lazy irc user. irssi just seems like too much work ;)05:36
stdinif I'm in X, I want an X client :)05:37
Tm_Tok, what we should do with this |_ocke ?05:48
FlannelTm_T: Ultimately, he needs to be unbanned from -ot05:52
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)06:34
ubottuFloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)06:34
|_ockei'm ok06:34
|_ockei'm not trying to hurt anyone or cuss06:34
|_ockebut they have a little problem with me there i guess06:34
|_ockeits cause i got drunk one night and was talking about my girlfriends06:36
|_ockethey didnt take kindly to it06:36
|_ockethere were several people who were either really interested or really acting the part for entertainment (which is very possible in here)06:36
tonyyarussoSpeaking of mass actions, the ban list in -ot is getting kind of long.06:36
tonyyarusso!login06:37
ubottuuse @login06:37
tonyyarusso@login06:37
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tonyyarusso121 bans in -ot and 388 in #ubuntu.  I'm guessing some of those could probably be cleaned.06:39
nickrudnone of mine, they're up to date. 06:40
Flanneltonyyarusso: If you could remove |_ocke's -ot forward, it'd be appreciated.  He's been waiting on it for a bit now.06:41
|_ockei'd appreciate it06:43
|_ockei was inappropriate, but i wasnt intentionally offensive06:43
|_ockei just was talking about my weird relationships and i was inappropriate so i got banned06:43
|_ockebut honestly i wish that i had learned about the situation i was in before i was in it06:43
tonyyarussoFlannel: That appears to belong to jussi01 - is he uncontactable?06:44
|_ockeit was highly unusual but i had to make a decision andi turned out to have made the wrong decision06:44
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Flannelubottu: tell aceat64 about away07:21
Tm_Telky: jumpy?07:56
Tm_Tbah07:56
Myrttibanforward removed08:22
FlannelMyrtti: It ought to eb just removed flat out08:22
Myrttithe ban?08:22
FlannelAye08:22
MyrttiFlannel: I disagree08:22
FlannelMyrtti: Feel free to discuss it with him then.08:23
FlannelIt's a month old, the party at hand has discussed things here on at least two separate occassions.08:24
MyrttiI'm getting sick and tired of seeing him ending up banned over and over again08:25
FlannelMyrtti: That too, was discussed.  I'm not sure three times really qualifies as "over and over again" though.08:27
FlannelHe's well aware that if it happens again, it will be longer (this was, of course, like two weeks ago, this particular ban has turned rediculous as is)08:28
elky2sorry guys, my connection appears to be on the fritz08:28
Tm_Telky2: jumpy elk08:29
elky2the prob is, i'm not sure where the issue is08:29
Flannelelky2: With your internet.. duh.08:29
elky2my bip was hoppy, so i'm running my vps through a few dist-upgrades now while it's down anyway08:30
elky2and just before i disconnected direct from my home connection08:30
MyrttiI'm still not convinced the ban should be lifted08:33
Myrttibut that's just me08:33
FlannelMyrtti: Care to explain why?08:36
elky2Myrtti, whose?08:39
Myrttielky2: |_ocke08:39
jussi01that guy has been here mre than 2 or 3 times...08:40
elky2oh god. hasn't he used up all his chances?08:40
jussi01elky2: IMHO yes, at least for a good while...08:40
Myrttihe just makes my skin crawl08:40
Myrttican't explain why, can't put my finger on it...08:40
FlannelMyrtti: That's no basis for banning.08:41
elky2he does not listen to a word anyone says. he is so self-absorbed he doesnt care how anyone else feels.08:41
MyrttiFlannel: technically I didn't ban him, I just took the banforward off and now we're discussing should the original ban be lifted08:41
jussi01He makes promises he continually breaks08:42
FlannelMyrtti: I'm aware.08:42
Flanneljussi01, elky2: The worst case scenario is you unban him, he goes off in -ot, you ban him again.  It's not a high risk endeavour.08:42
FlannelHe's fully aware that if he gets out of line again he'll be banned for a long period of time, and has had a few personal changes which should make it a non-issue.08:43
elky2Flannel, except it will incur another 3 hour 'please stop, no, locke, please stop. no, please stop' episode here.08:43
Flannelelky2: I don't believe so, no.08:43
jussi01Flannel: yeah, I know whagt you are saying. However, thats what my argument last time was, then I banned him again...08:43
elky2where he'll rant about what his willy has been up to, how he's obsessed and will not talk about her again, and then continue to rant about her08:43
MyrttiI should do a set of dice with all the excuses I've heard for bad behaviour (not only from him but from others as well)08:44
elky2because that's what he's done every single one of the times he's been banned08:44
elky2Myrtti, nah, bingo08:45
Myrtti"rollin rollin rollin, and the excuse today is..."08:45
Myrtti"NOT TAKING MY MEDICATION!"08:45
Myrttielky2: bingo is so passé08:45
FlannelAlright, well, explain to him the conditions of his current ban.  Since he's been banforwarded here without such explanations for a month now, with the rest of us having to stave off his inquiries.08:45
elky2Flannel, he's been explained it at least a dozen times by me08:46
elky2Flannel, if he's said he hasnt been explained, then he's a outright liar.08:46
Flannelelky2: That's incorrect.  You spoke to him once, and not in depth either.  There was no whining with regards to this current ban.  He came into -ops three hours later to inquire about its length (and wasn't answered), and hasn't been out of line at all in here for the past month.08:56
Myrttipoor elky08:57
FlannelMyrtti: The above is relevant to your prior comments as well.  We already have evidence of reasonable behavior, I don't see any reason to think that would magically disappear.08:57
elky2Flannel, then it's his previous ban for the same thing that i spent hours and hours on08:58
elky2but he clearly has not learned at all08:58
Flannelelky2: Yeah, that was in September.08:58
FlannelI disagree whole heartedly.08:58
elky2Flannel, then why are we having this conversation, if he has learned?08:59
Flannelelky2: What?08:59
elky2as in, why is he banned again08:59
elky2if he had learned. he would not be banned08:59
Myrttielky2: perhaps because Flannel doesn't have ops?08:59
FlannelMyrtti: What?08:59
Myrttiat -ot?09:00
elky2Myrtti, how did he get banned this time09:00
Myrttior do you09:00
elky2now, brb for half an hour, council teleconf09:00
MyrttiI don't see it in access list09:00
FlannelMyrtti: No, if I did, I would've removed it when I spoke with him in depth about it a week ago.09:00
FlannelHe was banned in January because he was in a conversation with people while inebriated and had a lapse in judgement.  Since then he has had some meatspace changes to his life, and I honestly don't think he'll be an issue anymore.  He understands the severity of being a repeat offender and what that means for any future run-ins.09:02
elky2Flannel, this is 100% on your head then. if he messes up, you're the one who let him.09:03
FlannelHeck, you don't have to take my word for it... talk to him yourself.  He's likely not awake right now, but I'm sure you'll have a chance to.09:03
elky2see, the thing is, he promised he'd had all these changes before09:03
elky2so, i dont trust a single word he says09:03
FlannelAlright.  That's your perogative.  As long as its handled in some sort of manner that doesn't involve forwards for no good reason.09:05
FlannelIf youre going to forward, you ought to have something to discuss.  Its not fair to the forwardee to have to remember to part this channel everytime they connect, nor is it appropriate to ask them to remove that channel from their autojoin.09:06
FlannelAnyway, I'm going to bed.09:07
elky2then i'm definately not removing it until you're back09:12
ikoniaJust to clarify - I've spoke to |_ocke in detail twice about his behaviour and asked him to remove his autojoin to #ubuntu-offtopic as well and explained why09:28
ikoniahe's been banned twice for being sexual explicit and on both occasions he has claimed he was drunk09:28
ikoniaas a side issue but not relevant to this actual ban, he continues with that sort of conversation - but not that graphics in other channels too09:29
ikoniacould someone remove |_ocke from this channel please 10:15
ikoniaand/or change his forward to a ban for the moment10:15
Myrttiikonia: the banforward was removed earlier10:18
ikoniaohh mega10:19
ikoniawas the forward removed or the ban10:19
ikonia(didn't see it in the logs)10:19
elkyjust the forward at this stage10:19
Myrttiforward10:19
elkythe ban will go when flannel is around to deal with the eventual messup10:19
ikoniayou need to op Flannel in -ot then10:21
Myrttior just to check if there's other -offtopic ops that think that |_ocke has served his punishment and can be let out10:23
Myrttiif Flannel is alone with his opinion to let Locke go, then it's really a no-brainer, n'est pas?10:24
ikoniamy personal opinion is not to - he needs a good stint away as he doesn't grasp that sex chat is not allowed and keeps using the excuse of "I'm drunk"10:26
ikoniabut that said if Flannels happy that he's ontop of himself, I'm not going to disagree10:26
elkysee, id prefer the person banning him not to be the one talking to him, and i want flannel to be the one talking to him.10:27
ikoniaseems sensible10:28
jussi01yippee!! 10:40
jussi01:D10:40
jussi01(ok, Im happy about my new car...)10:40
Myrttioh for gods sake10:42
jussi01Myrtti: ?10:43
TecnaTranuxThere seems to be a troll in #ubuntu10:53
Myrttiwhich one?10:53
jussi01gone10:53
TecnaTranuxoh, they just left10:53
Myrttioh, right.10:53
Myrttithanks10:53
jussi01Myrtti: Im handing -ot to you, Ive got work to do...10:57
Myrttijussi01: technically so do I...10:58
Myrtti*sigh*10:58
Tm_Ttechnically =)11:03
elkythese guys seem awful familiar11:04
Myrttiyup11:04
elkyespecially the ident here: n=rabiit@203-97-117-35.cable.telstraclear.net11:09
elkyoh yays, now i have shannon in PM telling me men f-word me11:10
Myrttioh yay!11:10
ikoniaelky: close the window walk away11:13
jussi01ikonia: pm11:14
ikoniajussi01 what new car did you get ?11:14
ikoniaahh bang on queue11:14
jussi01:D11:14
Jack_Sparrow@login12:52
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walrus17Hello, could someone unban me in #ubuntu please17:02
walrus17Hey17:03
walrus17i'm asking to unban me :/17:03
walrus17please, i have done nothing wrong there17:03
ikonia@bansearch walrus1717:09
ubottuMatch: *!*@client-212-117-5-175.inturbo.lt by Jack_Sparrow in #ubuntu on Feb 04 2009 18:50:43 (ID: 9759)17:09
ubottuMatch: *!*n=martyn*@client-212-117-5-175.inturbo.lt by cjwatson in #ubuntu-devel on Dec 27 2008 23:15:57 (ID: 8377)17:09
ikonia@btlogin17:10
ikoniahello walrus17 17:11
walrus17hello17:11
walrus17will you unban me?17:11
ikoniawell first of all do you want to explain your behaviour in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-devel that got you banned ?17:12
walrus17devel?17:12
ikonia#ubuntu-devel17:12
ikoniayou where using the nick "restartme"17:12
walrus17i never wasn't been there :O17:12
ikoniaso you're denying that17:12
walrus17well yes17:13
walrus17yesterfay i was joined to #ubuntu to get help eith drivers17:13
ikoniaok - so we'll put that to one side, how about your behaviour in #ubuntu17:13
ikoniayes, I saw 17:13
walrus17yesterday i was joined to #ubuntu to get help with drivers17:13
ikoniayes I saw17:13
walrus17so17:13
ikoniaso what about the behaviour that got you banned17:14
walrus17What i know ;>17:14
walrus17:D17:14
walrus17flame17:14
ikoniareally17:14
walrus17i tihnk17:14
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walrus17flame, spam... i dnt knw tht word17:15
ikoniaflame/spam/messing around, using swear words17:15
walrus17yes 17:15
walrus17and caps lock17:15
walrus17yes17:15
ikoniathat's right17:15
ikoniaso why did you keep doing that after you where asked many times to stop17:15
walrus17maybe because it suck everytime wen you instal newer version of ubuntu and you still see same shit in 800x64017:16
walrus17:/17:16
ikoniathat's not a reason17:16
walrus17thats reason17:16
ikoniaplus I have just checked and I can see you are also telling lies about not being in #ubuntu-devel17:17
walrus17well17:17
ikoniaso I so no reason to discuss this with you until you can at least be honest17:17
walrus17hey17:17
walrus17i wasn't been in devel17:17
walrus17yesterday17:17
ikoniayou where, and you where banned from there17:17
ikoniaon december the 27th17:17
walrus17no i wasn't17:18
walrus17wow17:18
walrus17how do you know that? o_O17:18
ikoniayou where using the nick reset me17:18
ikonia"resetme" sorry17:18
walrus17Hey :D17:18
ikoniaI've just checked - that's how I know17:18
ikoniaI'm not laughing17:18
ikoniaso until you can be bothered to be honest with me, I don't see any point moving this forward17:19
walrus17whatver 17:19
walrus17i dont care about that ban any motre17:19
ikoniaok17:19
ikoniabye then17:19
walrus17but you could still unban me17:20
ikoniano17:20
ikoniabye17:20
walrus17maybe in some time i will need some help with ubuntu... 17:20
walrus17what to do then?17:20
ikoniathen maybe you should consider telling the truth17:20
walrus17:(17:20
walrus17i'm not lying17:20
walrus17except devel17:20
ikoniaexcept devel - what do you mean by that17:21
walrus17but reason there was not very big17:21
ikoniayou where in #ubuntu-devel - you are admiting that now17:21
ikoniayes it was17:21
walrus17i dont remember :/17:21
ikoniaand you've just lied to me for 5 minutes17:21
ikoniayou denied ever being in there17:21
walrus17i wasn't remember17:21
ikoniaso I suggest you go away for a few weeks and come back when you are prepared to be honest and upfront 17:21
walrus17i dont have logs like you have and i just can't tell you where i was been in tseptember 2717:22
ikoniaDecember 2717:22
walrus17yes december... see17:22
ikoniawell, your behaviour in both channels is unacceptable, and both show you are unable to follow instructions on how to stop being a problem17:23
ikoniaplus - I don't appriciate being lied to and having my time wasted17:23
walrus17wath is reason in devel?17:23
walrus17i dnt remember17:23
ikoniayou trolled and used bad language17:23
walrus17bad languege heh? 17:23
ikoniaasking about nvidia drivers17:23
ikoniawalrus17: yes17:23
ikoniaagain, I'm not laughing17:24
ikoniaso, as I said earlier, I suggest you come back in a few weeks when you are prepared to be honest and not lie about things to discuss removing your ban17:25
walrus17whatever17:25
ikoniain the mean time you should read these documents to understand how to behave in Ubuntu irc channels17:25
ikonia!coc | walrus17 17:25
ubottuwalrus17: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/17:25
ikonia!guidelines | walrus17 17:25
ubottuwalrus17: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines17:25
walrus17i love these effects in ubuntu :D17:26
ikoniaPlease come back when you are prepared to be honest and have read and understood those documents17:26
walrus17i wont read these17:26
walrus17i have more job to do\17:26
ikoniaok then there is nothing more to discuss17:26
ikoniathank you17:27
Piciikonia: well handled anyway.17:27
ikoniaha, thanks17:27
Myrttiexcellently done17:27
ikoniathank you17:28
ikonia@mark walrus17 #ubuntu-ops is also known as the user restartme17:29
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jussi01can someone hilight me a few times please?17:40
ikoniajussi01: 17:40
ikoniajussi01: hello17:41
ikoniajussi01: highlight17:41
* jpds beams a light at jussi01 and say hi.17:41
jussi01thanks...17:45
Myrtti*stares at jussi01*17:48
Myrtti is there a special name for that plastic thing that holds pricetags on clothes?17:49
jussi01heh, not that I know of... but Ive been in Finland for too long so I dont remember lots...17:50
PiciMyrtti: I don't know an english name for it either17:58
Myrttioh well18:00
Pici'jauntry'18:07
boredandbloggingPici: how is your arm?18:39
Piciboredandblogging: I still need to keep it in the sling, but the doctor said that I can type with both hands now. I get bad muscle pain doing anything else.18:43
boredandbloggingPici: how much longer in a sling?18:54
Piciboredandblogging: Hopefully just another week.18:54
boredandbloggingPici: thats good19:02
jpdsPici: Ouch, what happened to you?19:22
Picijpds: I slipped on ice on my parent's driveway and fractured my arm19:23
Tm_Tjpds: he's lying, he got beaten by me, after swearing in irc19:23
* Tm_T is well known irc-nazi19:23
jpdsPici: Yikes, get well soon.19:25
Picijpds: I hope I do, its quite unpleasant19:25
* Tm_T makes magically curing hug for Pici 19:26
PiciIf only..19:26
jussi01Pici: I feel your pain...19:44
Priceywith a fake accent19:53
PriceyBut get well soon Pici!19:53
elkyTm_T, if you could avoid making that really-not-funny 'joke' as an op, it would make it so much easier for us to tell the users not to.20:55
PiciPlease get rid of any stale bans, the banlist is full again in #ubuntu21:34
prince_jammysnick 'buiu' spamming bad language at #ubuntu21:36
Piciyes. I know. 21:36
prince_jammysah, ok.21:36
Piciprince_jammys: sorry, ran out of ban slots, was looking for something I could get rid of.21:37
prince_jammysheh21:37
nickrudall those niven ones; someone (me peeks at bot barons) needs to write a script that pulls up a summary of those very old ones21:38
Priceysilly +Is aren't helpful either21:39
Priceyfloodbot hasn't been removing all +e's either. I'll do that now21:39
PiciPricey: Good thinking21:39
Picinickrud: Just search for yourself in BT and see if there are any old bans that can be removed.21:40
nickrud@btlogin21:41
nickrud@login21:41
ubottuThe operation succeeded.21:41
nickrud@btlogin21:41
Pricey8 lines21:43
PriceyMuch better.21:45
PriceyWould help if I didn't paste it in here first.21:45
PriceyBut yes, +b probably has a few more than it needs to.21:45
Pricey*too21:45
nickrud6 more21:52
ikoniaprince_j1mmys: what's up ?22:37
ubottuompaul called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (turtle_ flush that one out)22:37
Seeker`morning22:48
ikoniamorning ???22:48
Seeker`evening, whatever :P22:49
ikoniaSeeker`: thought you may have been in an odd time zone for an evening22:50
Seeker`heh, no22:51
Seeker`just the pub22:51
ikoniaclose enough22:51
Grant-Acould someone help me?22:55
Grant-AI am being abused by two ops22:55
Grant-AI have screenshots22:55
ikoniaGrant-A: not this again22:55
ikoniayes we know you posted them the other night22:55
Grant-Await till you see this...22:55
ikoniais this the same thing - or has this happened again today22:55
Grant-Ano, this is about jdong and p_quarels22:55
Grant-Athis just happened22:55
Grant-Alet me give you a log first22:55
ikoniaGrant-A: one moment please22:55
ikoniaI'm looking through the logs and I can't see any abuse ?22:56
ikoniawho is abusing you this time22:56
Seeker`in what channel?22:57
jdong#ubuntuforums22:57
Seeker`is that an official ubuntu channel?22:57
Grant-Ahttp://pastebin.com/m4861797222:57
jdonghttp://paste.ubuntu.com/114222/22:57
Grant-Aubottu is there, so I suppose so22:57
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)22:57
ikoniaGrant-A: what is the line that botheres you ?22:58
Grant-A#22:58
Grant-A16:51 < Grant-A> Wow, trolling, and ganging up on someone22:58
Grant-A#22:58
Grant-A16:52 < Grant-A> very mature22:58
Grant-A#22:58
Grant-A16:52 < jdong> garbage in, garbage out.22:58
ikoniaGrant-A: they are your comments - not someone elses22:58
ikoniaGrant-A: which comment by someone else bothers you22:58
Grant-A#22:58
Grant-AI just said it22:59
Grant-AJdong's22:59
ikoniajdongs comment ?22:59
Grant-Athese lines on my log:22:59
ikoniaGrant-A: this is the second time in 2 days you've come in saying people are abusing you, this is the second time I cannot see anything in the log22:59
Grant-A59-68 in particular22:59
Grant-AJdong essentially said that everything I say is garbage!22:59
ikoniaGrant-A: well your not making great "factual" statments in either the log today or yesterday 23:00
Grant-Atake a nice look at these lines:23:00
ikoniaI just did23:00
Grant-A69-7423:00
Grant-A16:53  * p_quarles gives Grant-A a phone; tells him to call someone who cares23:00
ikoniaGrant-A: I think that's because of your reputation over the last few days23:00
ikoniayou seem to have tried to provoke an incident 23:00
Grant-Ahow did I try to provoke an incident?23:01
ikoniaas I said in two days you've made random logs that people /operators are abusing you23:01
Seeker`Grant-A: Having read the log, ased on what was said I dont feel that anyones comments were unjustified23:01
Grant-Amade random logs?23:01
Seeker`operator abuse is someone kicking you for some invalid reason, "garbage in, garbage out" isn't really abuse23:01
Grant-Ait's trolling23:02
ikoniaGrant-A: it's not trolling23:02
Grant-Ahe is ridiculing me!23:02
Seeker`no, trolling is joining ubuntu and shouting "LINUX SUCKS"23:02
ikoniaGrant-A: the phrase random logs is in reference to pulling up conversations and claiming abuse when it doesn't look like it from what I've read23:02
Grant-Ahe is still saying derogatory and negative comments towards me23:02
Grant-A(In the log)23:02
ikoniaGrant-A: would it be less of a problem if he said "grant-a I find what you are saying not factual so I'd request you stop doing it"23:03
Grant-A...he said everything I say is garbage... that is verbal abuse, and according to the guidelines, it warrants a kick23:04
ikoniaGrant-A: would it be less of a problem if he said "grant-a I find what you are saying not factual so I'd request you stop doing it"23:04
Seeker`Grant-A: If you saw half of the things that go on, you'd realise that isn't really abuse23:04
Grant-Ayes, if that was the way he said it, I wouldn't have a problem, but the manner inwhich he said it was derogatory23:05
Grant-ASeeker`: What am I not seeing? The log is there plain as day.23:05
ikoniaGrant-A: I think your taking things out of context to be honest, and I think this is as a result of the comments/conversation you've made in that channel over the past day or so 23:05
Seeker`Grant-A: I mean some of the trolls / complaints that get made in here, I mean *real* abuse23:05
Grant-AI have never said anything in that channel that warrants abuse, nothing ever warrants abuse23:05
ikoniaGrant-A: you've made lots of comments that are not factual and actually turn out to be wrong23:06
Seeker`I think this comes down to a differing opinion of what constitutes abuse23:06
ikoniaso the "garbage in - garbage out" comment while it could have been phrased better in your eyes, is as a result or you not making factual statments which are "garbage" 23:06
Grant-Ahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines23:07
ikoniaGrant-A: I'm well aware of them23:07
Grant-A"Personal attacks against people: ban "23:07
ikoniaGrant-A: it wasn't a personal attack23:07
Grant-Asaying everything I say is garbage is not a personal attack?23:07
Grant-Athen what is it?23:07
Grant-Aa compliment?23:07
ikoniaGrant-A: no, I've just explained the phrase "garbage"23:07
ikoniajdong: you're in this channel - would you care to elaborate on this situation as I'm commenting from reading logs23:08
jdongyes, I  would; been staying silent due to conflict of interest...23:08
Grant-Aon top of that, ganging up on someone and trying to 'corner' them is not abuse?23:09
ikoniajdong: I thought as much hence why I made comment based on the logs I'd read in the past two days on this23:09
jdongI'd like to say, as ikonia said, that my comments were directed at the factual accuracy of your statements, not yourself, not a personal attack.23:09
ikoniaGrant-A: they are not ganing up on you, they share the same view23:09
jdongyes, I could have phrased it more politely, but frankly this is far from the first time we've had this situation, and patience is running a bit thin.23:09
Grant-Awould you like to show some logs of other times this has happened?23:09
ikoniaGrant-A: no - please no more logs23:09
jdongThe point I was trying to make was, if you keep saying things that are factually inaccurate, it is doing a disservice to everyone else in the channel listening in23:10
Grant-AI was asking jdong23:10
Seeker`Grant-A: so if ever more than 1 person disagres with you, it counts as "ganging up" on you?23:10
jdongAll I want is for a bit more judgement to be exercised before stating things as facts.23:10
Grant-A#23:10
Grant-A#23:11
Grant-A16:43 < p_quarles> Grant-A: your memory rarely serves, in my experience;23:11
Grant-A# citation needed23:11
ikoniaGrant-A: what is wrong with that ?23:11
Grant-A#23:11
Grant-A16:50 < p_quarles> Grant-A: what would it take to surprise you? flying lamp23:11
Grant-A# chops in the weather forecast?23:11
ikoniaGrant-A: ?23:11
ikoniaGrant-A: your pulling random lines23:11
Grant-Afrom the same log23:11
ikoniaGrant-A: how about posting someone of the incorrect information you post which has earned you this repuatation23:11
jdongboth p_quarles and I have tried more politely to let you know that what you are saying is consistently incorrect; you failed to listen, consistently.23:12
Grant-Ado you have proof that you have tried to tell me politely?23:12
Grant-Abecause I certainly do not remember it23:12
jdongagain -- this is part of the frustration...23:12
Grant-Ayes, false accusations are quite frustrating23:12
Grant-Ayou bark, and I bark back23:13
jdongyou say the sky is purple. We disagree. You immediately put the spotlight on us to give reputable proof that the sky is blue.23:13
Grant-Awtf?23:13
jdongwe are inconvenienced into dropping what we do and look for citations.23:13
ikoniaGrant-A: I'll make a deal - I'll go through some logs in ubuntuforums now, and if I find jdong and / or others informing you that your not making factual statments 23:13
ikoniaGrant-A: control your langauge23:13
ikoniaGrant-A: we know what WTF means and we don't need to see it23:13
Grant-A?23:13
Grant-Aok...23:14
ikoniaGrant-A: according to the irc guidelines you posted to us, bad language warrents a kick - do you want to be kicked ?23:14
ikoniaGrant-A: just making it clear that how you quote things at people can be used right back at you23:14
Grant-Aif I get kicked and jdong does as well, then gladly23:14
ikoniaGrant-A: jdong didn't use bad language23:14
ikoniaGrant-A: I'm just making the point that coming in here and throwing comments as "letter of the law" can be used back at you23:15
Grant-Aif the law isn't to be followed, then what is it there for?23:15
Grant-Aplease, if it makes the law more reputable23:15
ikoniaGrant-A: eg: if I go through the logs and find other people telling you nicley to stop making incorrect statments, do I ban you from #ubuntuforums for trolling ?23:15
Grant-AI was never trolling23:15
ikoniaGrant-A: eg: if I go through the logs and find other people telling you nicley to stop making incorrect statments, do I ban you from #ubuntuforums for trolling ?23:15
Grant-AI was simply trying to converse, but then people start coming in and asking me for citations!23:15
Grant-Aif I'm wrong, point it out, don't just blatantly and quite rudely just throw "citation needed" at me!23:16
ikoniaGrant-A: if I find people telling you nicley to be more accurrate - and you are not doing so - then thats trolling23:16
Grant-Awell, go ahead and look23:16
ikoniaGrant-A: ok - so thats the stance you want to take23:16
Grant-AI have no recollection whatsoever of anyone telling me nicely23:16
Grant-Aand if you can't find it, then you must ban all who were rude to me23:17
ikoniaGrant-A: I advise you not to go down this route, 23:17
ikonia!logs > ikonia 23:17
ubottuikonia, please see my private message23:17
Grant-Afair is fair23:17
Grant-Aif I go down, atleast it will have been with a fight23:18
Grant-AI will NOT stand back while being ridiculed23:18
Grant-Aand I will not take blatant abuse and rudeness23:18
ikoniawhy do you have to fight23:18
Grant-Abecause abuse is not right23:18
ikoniarats, #ubuntuforums is not logged23:18
jdongto be "fair", I do not want someone who exibits the above bellingerent behavior to be in #ubuntuforums.23:18
Grant-Ano matter how wrong or right someone is23:18
jdongWould you like that?23:18
ikoniaGrant-A: but it can be resolved nicley 23:19
jdongI am all for a positive resolution23:19
Grant-Aand it never was23:19
Grant-Athat's the problem23:19
ikoniaGrant-A: but your taking a very agressive stance23:19
jdongthat's what this channel is here for23:19
Seeker`Grant-A: Abuse is subjective, and as an impartial observer, I feel that you are maybe taking the definition a little far23:19
Grant-Alook, I'll apologize for possibly coming on as a troll, though I never meant to, if you apologize for the way you treated me23:19
Grant-Asincerlu23:19
Grant-A*sincerly23:19
Seeker`betz0r: how can we help you?23:20
ikoniaGrant-A: you don't apologies is someone else does, you apologies because you want to 23:20
mneptokthe comments made by jdong and p_quarles fall squarely outside the CoC, IMO.23:20
ikoniaGrant-A: this is not a school play ground, I'll shake hands if he does23:20
betz0rhey guys, i am online with irssi cuz i got a serious issue with my HDD. i wannted to join #ubuntu-de but i am banned? i havent been online the last days, so i even do not know the reason. can u help me with this issue?23:20
Grant-Amneptok: thank you for agreeing with me23:20
nickrudbetz0r, #ubuntu-irc for loco channels23:20
betz0rthx23:21
mneptokGrant-A: this does NOT mean "mneptok agrees entirely with Grant, and supports whatever cvlaims he may make."23:21
mneptok-v23:21
ikoniaGrant-A: jdong has already said he could have phrased it better23:21
ikoniaGrant-A: no-one is denying that it could have been better worded23:21
Grant-Aalright then23:21
ikoniaGrant-A: but you've been in for a few days making pretty "wrong" statments23:21
mneptokGrant-A: you could have walked away. you did not. you stood your ground and started throwing punches yourself. at that point, the shelter of the Ubuntu CoC is no longer available to you.23:21
ikoniaand as jdong said, patience with constantly correcting you was wearing thin23:22
Grant-Athrowing punches?23:22
Grant-AI never flamed back, not once.23:22
Grant-Abut I'll leave that at that23:22
ikoniaGrant-A: "scrot time then"23:22
mneptok17:52 < Grant-A> Wow, trolling, and ganging up on someone23:22
mneptok17:52 < Grant-A> very mature23:22
Grant-Ayes, for evidence23:22
mneptok< Grant-A> you do realize that you are in violation of the IRC user guidelines, correct?23:22
mneptokGrant-A: need i go on?23:22
Grant-Asince when is telling someone to stop against the rules?23:23
nickrudbetz0r, if you're done here, please see the topic about idling23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: in your own log23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: yes, but that's also a threat23:23
ikonia"I'll get a screen shot and show others"23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: you didn't tell anyone to stop23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: show me where you asked them to stop23:23
Grant-Athe "in violation of user guidelines" was meant to get them to stop23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: all I see if you baiting them and threatening them (by your own rules reading the logs line for line"23:23
mneptokGrant-A: calling someone immature is certainly against the CoC23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: was meant to is not doing23:23
Seeker`Grant-A: it wasn't a very nice way of trying to get them to stop23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: just as someone "told you politley"23:23
ikoniaGrant-A: lets put cards on the table shall we and be %100 honest23:24
mneptokGrant-A: it's not your position to enforce user guidelines on IRC. that's our job. and we'll thank you kindly to stop.23:24
mneptokGrant-A: is that crystal clear?23:24
Grant-Ayes23:24
mneptokthank you.23:24
Grant-Ait's perfectly clear... I see how it is.23:24
Grant-Athank you for your time...23:24
jdongGrant-A: Just like I said I could've worded *my* message more nicely, I think you could've expressed more kindly that you feel we were violating the CoC in the way we informed you were incorrect.23:25
jdongI apologize if you felt attacked, that was not my intention23:25
jdongI would just like for  you to make an honest effort at controlling the amount of incorrect information you give23:25
Grant-Aand I apologize if you felt as if I was trolling, but all I was trying to do was start a conversation in a very quiet channel23:25
mneptokGrant-A: now, i humbly suggest that instead of trying to change the some of the symptoms of your behavior (people acting outside of the CoC), you instead actually change the behavior and see if the symptoms stop.23:26
Grant-Aok then23:26
Grant-Athank you for your help23:26
mneptokGrant-A: for example, before you claim there is BSD licensed code in the MS TCP/IP network stack, read the Wikipedia article on Windows TCP/Ip implementation23:26
ikoniait's not unreasonable to ask for citation on that23:27
mneptokthat should alleviate people claiming you're giving out false or misleading info.23:27
mneptokand then, if they do, you can cite your source and blame the confusion on that source.23:27
mneptok"Not my problem. Go edit Wikipedia." etc etc23:27
mneptokmake sense?23:27
Grant-Ayes, i suppose so23:27
Grant-Abut last time I read that article it claimed that the TCP/IP stack was based on BSD code23:28
mneptoki'm fairly sure this will lead to people taking you more seriosuly.23:28
Grant-AI was unaware of factual inaccuracy23:28
mneptokGrant-A: i think what i'm saying is that "the last time you read that article" needs to equate to "just before i typed that line into IRC" ;)23:28
jdongGrant-A: I understood when you made the remark of the "grain of truth" so to speak that lead you to say that23:28
jdongif this were a one-time event it wouldn't be something that bothers me23:29
jdongeveryone is wrong sometimes.23:29
jdongjust this seems to happen day after day23:29
Grant-AI am sorry if it seems that way, but ganging up on a user isn't quite the best way to deal with it23:29
Seeker`Grant-A: what counts as ganging up?23:30
ikoniaughhh23:30
Grant-Aespecially when the user has no idea that they were incorrect23:30
ikoniado you listen to what's been said in here23:30
Grant-AI will stop here23:30
ikoniaor to you in the channel23:30
ikoniano-one is ganging up on you23:30
Grant-AI thank you all for your time and patience23:30
ikoniano - 23:30
jdongwell I would not like to stop "here"23:30
ikoniaand people are telling you about your factial incorrectness23:30
jdongwe have not even begun to solve the actual problem.23:30
ikoniathat has just been explained to you and you STILL think people are ganging up on you and you have no idea the comments you're making is wrong23:31
jdongI would like for you to pledge to make an extra effort to verify things you say before you say them....23:31
mneptokjdong: Rome was not built in a day. actual resolution can wait until people have cooled.23:31
jdongmneptok: agreed.23:31
mneptokperhaps everyone needs to step into the Big Blue Room, get massively drunk, and figure this out some other time.23:31
ikoniamneptok: I'm not happy with that23:31
ikoniathis accusation was made yesterday also 23:31
mneptokfor now, it seems Grant-A knows where he misstepped, and has agreed to look into ways to avoid future missteps. i call that a damned good day's work.23:32
Grant-Ayes23:32
mneptoknow, let's get liquored up.23:32
Grant-AI'll avoid making statements such as that all together, to make sure that this doesn't happen again23:32
Grant-Aand to abide with the idling rule, I believe it is time for me to go23:33
Grant-Abye~23:33
ikoniaI'm walking away on this now - but I'll make it public that I am not happy with this23:33
mneptokikonia: tomorrow's another day.23:33
ikonianight chaps23:33
Seeker`night23:34
jpdsNight all.23:36
=== prince_j1mmys is now known as prince_jammys

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