[00:35] <Jack_Sparrow> nickrud Is it a full moon...
[00:52] <nikrud> 3/4's
[00:54] <Flannel> gibbous!
[01:01] <nickrud_> work day is done. Time for food!
[03:27] <Grant-A> Um
[03:27] <Grant-A> I have an issue with ops and others flaming me in #ubuntuforums
[03:27] <Grant-A> and trolling
[03:28] <Grant-A> I have some screenshots and a very extensive chat log
[03:28] <Grant-A> I figure if it continues I could take it up with the freenode staff...
[03:29] <Grant-A> it's quite a few screenshots, so what would be the preferred method of showing them?
[03:29] <Grant-A> A pastebin full of the imageshack urls?
[03:46] <Flannel> Grant-A: Sure
[03:47] <Grant-A> alright
[03:47] <Grant-A> let me get all this uploaded
[03:48] <Grant-A> I have a very large resolution screen, so this could take a bit
[03:50] <Grant-A> uh oh
[03:50] <Grant-A> imageshack is compressing them
[03:50] <Grant-A> will a zipfile work ok?
[03:53] <Grant-A> yeesh! 34m!
[03:53] <Grant-A> I'll have to make these jpegs
[03:53] <jrib> wow
[03:53] <Grant-A> yeah, it's quite an extensive amount of evidence
[03:53] <jrib> usually, you just keep logs as text instead of taking screenshots.  Is that no longer possible?
[03:53] <Grant-A> including whois screenshots, channel screenshots, and text logs
[03:54] <Grant-A> well, I figured that the screenshots would hold more weight
[03:54] <Grant-A> in terms of evidence
[03:54] <Flannel> Grant-A: If you had both, we could read the text, and verify with screenshots as need be.  If you still can do text logs
[03:54] <Grant-A> well, I do have logs
[03:55] <tritium> text is easier for grepping
[03:55] <Grant-A> would you like me to pastebin them?
[03:55] <Flannel> Please
[03:55] <Grant-A> http://pastebin.com/m2210d45e
[03:56] <Grant-A> http://pastebin.com/m1bc8d47c
[03:56] <Grant-A> I have a witness aswell
[03:56] <Grant-A> the whois lists the people who I had problems with
[03:57] <Grant-A> The problems ranged from malicious commands to trolling
[03:57] <Grant-A> one even went as far as to mock me with a fake mibbit account called "Brant-B"
[03:57] <Grant-A> Jacob and EDavidBurg are ops, if I'm not mistaken
[03:57] <Grant-A> which makes this all the more troubling
[03:58] <Grant-A> Hence why I took screenshots, as I figured that they would probably deny this
[03:59] <jrib> Grant-A: what lines should we be looking at?
[03:59] <Grant-A> let me see...
[04:00] <Grant-A> 6 was when EDavidBurg told me to stick rm -rf into my shutdown command
[04:01] <Grant-A> 13 is where he tried to convince me to use it
[04:02] <Grant-A> 81-83 is where P_Quarels harrassed me a bit
[04:02] <Grant-A> 85- I counter
[04:02] <Grant-A> 87 & 88 pretty immature behavior; trolling
[04:02] <Grant-A> 95... more trolling...
[04:03] <Grant-A> 97- EDavidBurg... again...
[04:03] <Grant-A> 101 - trolling
[04:03] <Grant-A> 136- Flaming
[04:03] <Grant-A> 131- Cussing
[04:04] <Grant-A> 124- trolling
[04:04] <Grant-A> (sorry for the out of order part there)
[04:04] <Grant-A> I scrolled a bit too fast
[04:04] <Grant-A> 106- Justifying of flaming
[04:05] <Grant-A> 142-164: trolling
[04:05] <boredandblogging> where is jacob giving you trouble?
[04:05] <Grant-A> 171-184: Me asking them to stop
[04:06] <Grant-A> boredandblogging: 205-216
[04:06] <Grant-A> 190-194: I try to change the subject
[04:07] <jrib> in the beginning EDavidBurg doesn't address you, so his comment could be part of some earlier conversation before line 1.  The other stuff honestly isn't trolling.  Just some discussion about the color of lights going back and forth
[04:07] <Grant-A> 195-202... Brant B
[04:08] <Grant-A> 202+ trainwreck
[04:08] <Grant-A> they kept going "prove it, prove it" to everything I said
[04:08] <Grant-A> that was pretty much trolling
[04:08] <Grant-A> and they ganged up on me
[04:09] <Grant-A> well, I can go further back into the chat log to show that EDavidBurg was not trying to talk to someone else there
[04:12] <Grant-A> http://pastebin.com/m1bc8d47c
[04:12] <Grant-A> there is further back into the log
[04:12] <Grant-A> I can go farther back to 30 minutes, if you would like
[04:12] <Grant-A> *30 minutes before that
[04:14] <Grant-A> so... what are we going to do?
[04:29] <Grant-A> well, thanks for your help
[04:29] <Grant-A> I will continue to persue this issue tomorrow
[04:29] <Grant-A> perhaps with the freenode staff
[04:29] <Grant-A> seeing as they were trolling with freenode proxies
[04:29] <Grant-A> bye~
[04:30]  * Flannel is still reading.
[04:30] <Flannel> Eh, he left.
[04:31] <boredandblogging> Flannel: don't see much where Jacob did anything
[04:32] <Flannel> boredandblogging: No, I don't either.  I think at that point he was in a "Everyone who says anything to me that isn't in agreement is out to get me" defensive mode
[04:32] <boredandblogging> Flannel: agreed
[04:34] <Flannel> We probably ought to get himback in here and talk him out of that mode.
[04:35] <Flannel> boredandblogging: then again, as an operator, he really shouldn't have let that go on as long as it did.
[04:37] <Flannel> I'm sure we're not getting the full story, and I don't mean to imply that Grant is entirely innocent, but it was just a situation that got out of hand, and it really shouldn't have gone on.
[04:42] <boredandblogging> Flannel: yeah, some more background would be good
[04:45] <Flannel> Hi demolition, how can we help you?
[04:45] <demolition> Hello I have an issue with being banned on the ubuntu channel since my roomate is the one that got me kicked out I told him not to do that anymore and was wondering if you could unblock the channel so I can use it since I have ubuntu also
[04:47] <demolition> he was using his account but you guys blocked our whole ip address
[04:47] <demolition> now im not able to get in
[04:48] <Flannel> demolition: Generally lying is a bad idea, it certainly won't get you unbanned any faster.
[04:48] <Flannel> demolition: Are you aware of our channel guidelines, and the code of conduct?
[04:49] <demolition> what makes you think that two people dont live in a house
[04:50] <Flannel> demolition: Not that.  I suppose I should ask ou to specify, what sort of separate account do you mean?
[04:50] <demolition> ok we run on the same network address he uses szrhawaii 
[04:50] <demolition> as an account name 
[04:51] <demolition> so we have two different account names but run on the same network 
[04:51] <bazhang> demolition, I recall the situation
[04:51] <demolition> does that help clarify 
[04:51] <Flannel> This is ancillary anyway.  Have you read our IRC guidelines, and code of conduct?
[04:51] <Flannel> demolition: You might look into getting separate user accounts on your machine.
[04:52] <Flannel> demolition: (but again, this isn't important right now)
[04:52] <demolition> how do i go about that 
[04:52] <demolition> and where are the guidelines at 
[04:52] <Flannel> demolition: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[04:52] <bazhang> demolition, just a second
[04:53] <Flannel> demolition: Please read them and understand them.  And have your roommate do the same.
[04:53] <stdin> demolition: then why were you in #kubuntu-offtopic as szrhawaii ?
[04:53] <Flannel> bazhang: mute too
[04:53] <bazhang> Flannel, cheers
[04:53] <demolition> i told you running on the same network 
[04:54] <bazhang> demolition, please try to rejoin now
[04:54] <demolition> ill try 
[04:54] <demolition> thank you guys 
[04:55] <bazhang> demolition, try to speak
[04:55] <demolition> appreciate it and now ill tell him not to do that anymore
[05:03] <bazhang> the python script for xchat is behaving oddly; may have to learn the manual method for operations
[05:15] <nickrud> ohnoes, not manual
[05:16] <bazhang> heh
[05:16] <bazhang> every time I remove a ban, I get the entire ban list displayed; first time I thought it was removing all bans
[05:17] <nickrud> ah, a Jack Sparrow :)
[05:17] <bazhang> thought he banned everyone; good thing it was not kb
[05:18] <nickrud> any catastrophic mass action is a Jack Sparrow
[05:19]  * nickrud is just trying to get it labeled, before he does something that gets it  named after himself
[05:30] <stdin> bazhang: have you run /cs update recently? I remember that being an old bug
[05:32] <bazhang> stdin, thanks, will give it a try
[05:34] <stdin> eek, server error. guess downloading wont work
[05:34] <stdin> I have version 1.0.12 anyway
[05:35] <bazhang> just have to ban alot less :)
[05:36] <nickrud> I'm glad to see I'm not the only lazy irc user. irssi just seems like too much work ;)
[05:37] <stdin> if I'm in X, I want an X client :)
[05:48] <Tm_T> ok, what we should do with this |_ocke ?
[05:52] <Flannel> Tm_T: Ultimately, he needs to be unbanned from -ot
[06:34] <|_ocke> i'm ok
[06:34] <|_ocke> i'm not trying to hurt anyone or cuss
[06:34] <|_ocke> but they have a little problem with me there i guess
[06:36] <|_ocke> its cause i got drunk one night and was talking about my girlfriends
[06:36] <|_ocke> they didnt take kindly to it
[06:36] <|_ocke> there were several people who were either really interested or really acting the part for entertainment (which is very possible in here)
[06:36] <tonyyarusso> Speaking of mass actions, the ban list in -ot is getting kind of long.
[06:37] <tonyyarusso> !login
[06:37] <tonyyarusso> @login
[06:37] <tonyyarusso> @btlogin
[06:39] <tonyyarusso> 121 bans in -ot and 388 in #ubuntu.  I'm guessing some of those could probably be cleaned.
[06:40] <nickrud> none of mine, they're up to date. 
[06:41] <Flannel> tonyyarusso: If you could remove |_ocke's -ot forward, it'd be appreciated.  He's been waiting on it for a bit now.
[06:43] <|_ocke> i'd appreciate it
[06:43] <|_ocke> i was inappropriate, but i wasnt intentionally offensive
[06:43] <|_ocke> i just was talking about my weird relationships and i was inappropriate so i got banned
[06:43] <|_ocke> but honestly i wish that i had learned about the situation i was in before i was in it
[06:44] <tonyyarusso> Flannel: That appears to belong to jussi01 - is he uncontactable?
[06:44] <|_ocke> it was highly unusual but i had to make a decision andi turned out to have made the wrong decision
[07:21] <Flannel> ubottu: tell aceat64 about away
[07:56] <Tm_T> elky: jumpy?
[07:56] <Tm_T> bah
[08:22] <Myrtti> banforward removed
[08:22] <Flannel> Myrtti: It ought to eb just removed flat out
[08:22] <Myrtti> the ban?
[08:22] <Flannel> Aye
[08:22] <Myrtti> Flannel: I disagree
[08:23] <Flannel> Myrtti: Feel free to discuss it with him then.
[08:24] <Flannel> It's a month old, the party at hand has discussed things here on at least two separate occassions.
[08:25] <Myrtti> I'm getting sick and tired of seeing him ending up banned over and over again
[08:27] <Flannel> Myrtti: That too, was discussed.  I'm not sure three times really qualifies as "over and over again" though.
[08:28] <Flannel> He's well aware that if it happens again, it will be longer (this was, of course, like two weeks ago, this particular ban has turned rediculous as is)
[08:28] <elky2> sorry guys, my connection appears to be on the fritz
[08:29] <Tm_T> elky2: jumpy elk
[08:29] <elky2> the prob is, i'm not sure where the issue is
[08:29] <Flannel> elky2: With your internet.. duh.
[08:30] <elky2> my bip was hoppy, so i'm running my vps through a few dist-upgrades now while it's down anyway
[08:30] <elky2> and just before i disconnected direct from my home connection
[08:33] <Myrtti> I'm still not convinced the ban should be lifted
[08:33] <Myrtti> but that's just me
[08:36] <Flannel> Myrtti: Care to explain why?
[08:39] <elky2> Myrtti, whose?
[08:39] <Myrtti> elky2: |_ocke
[08:40] <jussi01> that guy has been here mre than 2 or 3 times...
[08:40] <elky2> oh god. hasn't he used up all his chances?
[08:40] <jussi01> elky2: IMHO yes, at least for a good while...
[08:40] <Myrtti> he just makes my skin crawl
[08:40] <Myrtti> can't explain why, can't put my finger on it...
[08:41] <Flannel> Myrtti: That's no basis for banning.
[08:41] <elky2> he does not listen to a word anyone says. he is so self-absorbed he doesnt care how anyone else feels.
[08:41] <Myrtti> Flannel: technically I didn't ban him, I just took the banforward off and now we're discussing should the original ban be lifted
[08:42] <jussi01> He makes promises he continually breaks
[08:42] <Flannel> Myrtti: I'm aware.
[08:42] <Flannel> jussi01, elky2: The worst case scenario is you unban him, he goes off in -ot, you ban him again.  It's not a high risk endeavour.
[08:43] <Flannel> He's fully aware that if he gets out of line again he'll be banned for a long period of time, and has had a few personal changes which should make it a non-issue.
[08:43] <elky2> Flannel, except it will incur another 3 hour 'please stop, no, locke, please stop. no, please stop' episode here.
[08:43] <Flannel> elky2: I don't believe so, no.
[08:43] <jussi01> Flannel: yeah, I know whagt you are saying. However, thats what my argument last time was, then I banned him again...
[08:43] <elky2> where he'll rant about what his willy has been up to, how he's obsessed and will not talk about her again, and then continue to rant about her
[08:44] <Myrtti> I should do a set of dice with all the excuses I've heard for bad behaviour (not only from him but from others as well)
[08:44] <elky2> because that's what he's done every single one of the times he's been banned
[08:45] <elky2> Myrtti, nah, bingo
[08:45] <Myrtti> "rollin rollin rollin, and the excuse today is..."
[08:45] <Myrtti> "NOT TAKING MY MEDICATION!"
[08:45] <Myrtti> elky2: bingo is so passé
[08:45] <Flannel> Alright, well, explain to him the conditions of his current ban.  Since he's been banforwarded here without such explanations for a month now, with the rest of us having to stave off his inquiries.
[08:46] <elky2> Flannel, he's been explained it at least a dozen times by me
[08:46] <elky2> Flannel, if he's said he hasnt been explained, then he's a outright liar.
[08:56] <Flannel> elky2: That's incorrect.  You spoke to him once, and not in depth either.  There was no whining with regards to this current ban.  He came into -ops three hours later to inquire about its length (and wasn't answered), and hasn't been out of line at all in here for the past month.
[08:57] <Myrtti> poor elky
[08:57] <Flannel> Myrtti: The above is relevant to your prior comments as well.  We already have evidence of reasonable behavior, I don't see any reason to think that would magically disappear.
[08:58] <elky2> Flannel, then it's his previous ban for the same thing that i spent hours and hours on
[08:58] <elky2> but he clearly has not learned at all
[08:58] <Flannel> elky2: Yeah, that was in September.
[08:58] <Flannel> I disagree whole heartedly.
[08:59] <elky2> Flannel, then why are we having this conversation, if he has learned?
[08:59] <Flannel> elky2: What?
[08:59] <elky2> as in, why is he banned again
[08:59] <elky2> if he had learned. he would not be banned
[08:59] <Myrtti> elky2: perhaps because Flannel doesn't have ops?
[08:59] <Flannel> Myrtti: What?
[09:00] <Myrtti> at -ot?
[09:00] <elky2> Myrtti, how did he get banned this time
[09:00] <Myrtti> or do you
[09:00] <elky2> now, brb for half an hour, council teleconf
[09:00] <Myrtti> I don't see it in access list
[09:00] <Flannel> Myrtti: No, if I did, I would've removed it when I spoke with him in depth about it a week ago.
[09:02] <Flannel> He was banned in January because he was in a conversation with people while inebriated and had a lapse in judgement.  Since then he has had some meatspace changes to his life, and I honestly don't think he'll be an issue anymore.  He understands the severity of being a repeat offender and what that means for any future run-ins.
[09:03] <elky2> Flannel, this is 100% on your head then. if he messes up, you're the one who let him.
[09:03] <Flannel> Heck, you don't have to take my word for it... talk to him yourself.  He's likely not awake right now, but I'm sure you'll have a chance to.
[09:03] <elky2> see, the thing is, he promised he'd had all these changes before
[09:03] <elky2> so, i dont trust a single word he says
[09:05] <Flannel> Alright.  That's your perogative.  As long as its handled in some sort of manner that doesn't involve forwards for no good reason.
[09:06] <Flannel> If youre going to forward, you ought to have something to discuss.  Its not fair to the forwardee to have to remember to part this channel everytime they connect, nor is it appropriate to ask them to remove that channel from their autojoin.
[09:07] <Flannel> Anyway, I'm going to bed.
[09:12] <elky2> then i'm definately not removing it until you're back
[09:28] <ikonia> Just to clarify - I've spoke to |_ocke in detail twice about his behaviour and asked him to remove his autojoin to #ubuntu-offtopic as well and explained why
[09:28] <ikonia> he's been banned twice for being sexual explicit and on both occasions he has claimed he was drunk
[09:29] <ikonia> as a side issue but not relevant to this actual ban, he continues with that sort of conversation - but not that graphics in other channels too
[10:15] <ikonia> could someone remove |_ocke from this channel please 
[10:15] <ikonia> and/or change his forward to a ban for the moment
[10:18] <Myrtti> ikonia: the banforward was removed earlier
[10:19] <ikonia> ohh mega
[10:19] <ikonia> was the forward removed or the ban
[10:19] <ikonia> (didn't see it in the logs)
[10:19] <elky> just the forward at this stage
[10:19] <Myrtti> forward
[10:19] <elky> the ban will go when flannel is around to deal with the eventual messup
[10:21] <ikonia> you need to op Flannel in -ot then
[10:23] <Myrtti> or just to check if there's other -offtopic ops that think that |_ocke has served his punishment and can be let out
[10:24] <Myrtti> if Flannel is alone with his opinion to let Locke go, then it's really a no-brainer, n'est pas?
[10:26] <ikonia> my personal opinion is not to - he needs a good stint away as he doesn't grasp that sex chat is not allowed and keeps using the excuse of "I'm drunk"
[10:26] <ikonia> but that said if Flannels happy that he's ontop of himself, I'm not going to disagree
[10:27] <elky> see, id prefer the person banning him not to be the one talking to him, and i want flannel to be the one talking to him.
[10:28] <ikonia> seems sensible
[10:40] <jussi01> yippee!! 
[10:40] <jussi01> :D
[10:40] <jussi01> (ok, Im happy about my new car...)
[10:42] <Myrtti> oh for gods sake
[10:43] <jussi01> Myrtti: ?
[10:53] <TecnaTranux> There seems to be a troll in #ubuntu
[10:53] <Myrtti> which one?
[10:53] <jussi01> gone
[10:53] <TecnaTranux> oh, they just left
[10:53] <Myrtti> oh, right.
[10:53] <Myrtti> thanks
[10:57] <jussi01> Myrtti: Im handing -ot to you, Ive got work to do...
[10:58] <Myrtti> jussi01: technically so do I...
[10:58] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[11:03] <Tm_T> technically =)
[11:04] <elky> these guys seem awful familiar
[11:04] <Myrtti> yup
[11:09] <elky> especially the ident here: n=rabiit@203-97-117-35.cable.telstraclear.net
[11:10] <elky> oh yays, now i have shannon in PM telling me men f-word me
[11:10] <Myrtti> oh yay!
[11:13] <ikonia> elky: close the window walk away
[11:14] <jussi01> ikonia: pm
[11:14] <ikonia> jussi01 what new car did you get ?
[11:14] <ikonia> ahh bang on queue
[11:14] <jussi01> :D
[12:52] <Jack_Sparrow> @login
[12:52] <Jack_Sparrow> @btlogin
[17:02] <walrus17> Hello, could someone unban me in #ubuntu please
[17:03] <walrus17> Hey
[17:03] <walrus17> i'm asking to unban me :/
[17:03] <walrus17> please, i have done nothing wrong there
[17:09] <ikonia> @bansearch walrus17
[17:10] <ikonia> @btlogin
[17:11] <ikonia> hello walrus17 
[17:11] <walrus17> hello
[17:11] <walrus17> will you unban me?
[17:12] <ikonia> well first of all do you want to explain your behaviour in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-devel that got you banned ?
[17:12] <walrus17> devel?
[17:12] <ikonia> #ubuntu-devel
[17:12] <ikonia> you where using the nick "restartme"
[17:12] <walrus17> i never wasn't been there :O
[17:12] <ikonia> so you're denying that
[17:13] <walrus17> well yes
[17:13] <walrus17> yesterfay i was joined to #ubuntu to get help eith drivers
[17:13] <ikonia> ok - so we'll put that to one side, how about your behaviour in #ubuntu
[17:13] <ikonia> yes, I saw 
[17:13] <walrus17> yesterday i was joined to #ubuntu to get help with drivers
[17:13] <ikonia> yes I saw
[17:13] <walrus17> so
[17:14] <ikonia> so what about the behaviour that got you banned
[17:14] <walrus17> What i know ;>
[17:14] <walrus17> :D
[17:14] <walrus17> flame
[17:14] <ikonia> really
[17:14] <walrus17> i tihnk
[17:15] <walrus17> flame, spam... i dnt knw tht word
[17:15] <ikonia> flame/spam/messing around, using swear words
[17:15] <walrus17> yes 
[17:15] <walrus17> and caps lock
[17:15] <walrus17> yes
[17:15] <ikonia> that's right
[17:15] <ikonia> so why did you keep doing that after you where asked many times to stop
[17:16] <walrus17> maybe because it suck everytime wen you instal newer version of ubuntu and you still see same shit in 800x640
[17:16] <walrus17> :/
[17:16] <ikonia> that's not a reason
[17:16] <walrus17> thats reason
[17:17] <ikonia> plus I have just checked and I can see you are also telling lies about not being in #ubuntu-devel
[17:17] <walrus17> well
[17:17] <ikonia> so I so no reason to discuss this with you until you can at least be honest
[17:17] <walrus17> hey
[17:17] <walrus17> i wasn't been in devel
[17:17] <walrus17> yesterday
[17:17] <ikonia> you where, and you where banned from there
[17:17] <ikonia> on december the 27th
[17:18] <walrus17> no i wasn't
[17:18] <walrus17> wow
[17:18] <walrus17> how do you know that? o_O
[17:18] <ikonia> you where using the nick reset me
[17:18] <ikonia> "resetme" sorry
[17:18] <walrus17> Hey :D
[17:18] <ikonia> I've just checked - that's how I know
[17:18] <ikonia> I'm not laughing
[17:19] <ikonia> so until you can be bothered to be honest with me, I don't see any point moving this forward
[17:19] <walrus17> whatver 
[17:19] <walrus17> i dont care about that ban any motre
[17:19] <ikonia> ok
[17:19] <ikonia> bye then
[17:20] <walrus17> but you could still unban me
[17:20] <ikonia> no
[17:20] <ikonia> bye
[17:20] <walrus17> maybe in some time i will need some help with ubuntu... 
[17:20] <walrus17> what to do then?
[17:20] <ikonia> then maybe you should consider telling the truth
[17:20] <walrus17> :(
[17:20] <walrus17> i'm not lying
[17:20] <walrus17> except devel
[17:21] <ikonia> except devel - what do you mean by that
[17:21] <walrus17> but reason there was not very big
[17:21] <ikonia> you where in #ubuntu-devel - you are admiting that now
[17:21] <ikonia> yes it was
[17:21] <walrus17> i dont remember :/
[17:21] <ikonia> and you've just lied to me for 5 minutes
[17:21] <ikonia> you denied ever being in there
[17:21] <walrus17> i wasn't remember
[17:21] <ikonia> so I suggest you go away for a few weeks and come back when you are prepared to be honest and upfront 
[17:22] <walrus17> i dont have logs like you have and i just can't tell you where i was been in tseptember 27
[17:22] <ikonia> December 27
[17:22] <walrus17> yes december... see
[17:23] <ikonia> well, your behaviour in both channels is unacceptable, and both show you are unable to follow instructions on how to stop being a problem
[17:23] <ikonia> plus - I don't appriciate being lied to and having my time wasted
[17:23] <walrus17> wath is reason in devel?
[17:23] <walrus17> i dnt remember
[17:23] <ikonia> you trolled and used bad language
[17:23] <walrus17> bad languege heh? 
[17:23] <ikonia> asking about nvidia drivers
[17:23] <ikonia> walrus17: yes
[17:24] <ikonia> again, I'm not laughing
[17:25] <ikonia> so, as I said earlier, I suggest you come back in a few weeks when you are prepared to be honest and not lie about things to discuss removing your ban
[17:25] <walrus17> whatever
[17:25] <ikonia> in the mean time you should read these documents to understand how to behave in Ubuntu irc channels
[17:25] <ikonia> !coc | walrus17 
[17:25] <ikonia> !guidelines | walrus17 
[17:26] <walrus17> i love these effects in ubuntu :D
[17:26] <ikonia> Please come back when you are prepared to be honest and have read and understood those documents
[17:26] <walrus17> i wont read these
[17:26] <walrus17> i have more job to do\
[17:26] <ikonia> ok then there is nothing more to discuss
[17:27] <ikonia> thank you
[17:27] <Pici> ikonia: well handled anyway.
[17:27] <ikonia> ha, thanks
[17:27] <Myrtti> excellently done
[17:28] <ikonia> thank you
[17:29] <ikonia> @mark walrus17 #ubuntu-ops is also known as the user restartme
[17:40] <jussi01> can someone hilight me a few times please?
[17:40] <ikonia> jussi01: 
[17:41] <ikonia> jussi01: hello
[17:41] <ikonia> jussi01: highlight
[17:41]  * jpds beams a light at jussi01 and say hi.
[17:45] <jussi01> thanks...
[17:48] <Myrtti> *stares at jussi01*
[17:49] <Myrtti>  is there a special name for that plastic thing that holds pricetags on clothes?
[17:50] <jussi01> heh, not that I know of... but Ive been in Finland for too long so I dont remember lots...
[17:58] <Pici> Myrtti: I don't know an english name for it either
[18:00] <Myrtti> oh well
[18:07] <Pici> 'jauntry'
[18:39] <boredandblogging> Pici: how is your arm?
[18:43] <Pici> boredandblogging: I still need to keep it in the sling, but the doctor said that I can type with both hands now. I get bad muscle pain doing anything else.
[18:54] <boredandblogging> Pici: how much longer in a sling?
[18:54] <Pici> boredandblogging: Hopefully just another week.
[19:02] <boredandblogging> Pici: thats good
[19:22] <jpds> Pici: Ouch, what happened to you?
[19:23] <Pici> jpds: I slipped on ice on my parent's driveway and fractured my arm
[19:23] <Tm_T> jpds: he's lying, he got beaten by me, after swearing in irc
[19:23]  * Tm_T is well known irc-nazi
[19:25] <jpds> Pici: Yikes, get well soon.
[19:25] <Pici> jpds: I hope I do, its quite unpleasant
[19:26]  * Tm_T makes magically curing hug for Pici 
[19:26] <Pici> If only..
[19:44] <jussi01> Pici: I feel your pain...
[19:53] <Pricey> with a fake accent
[19:53] <Pricey> But get well soon Pici!
[20:55] <elky> Tm_T, if you could avoid making that really-not-funny 'joke' as an op, it would make it so much easier for us to tell the users not to.
[21:34] <Pici> Please get rid of any stale bans, the banlist is full again in #ubuntu
[21:36] <prince_jammys> nick 'buiu' spamming bad language at #ubuntu
[21:36] <Pici> yes. I know. 
[21:36] <prince_jammys> ah, ok.
[21:37] <Pici> prince_jammys: sorry, ran out of ban slots, was looking for something I could get rid of.
[21:37] <prince_jammys> heh
[21:38] <nickrud> all those niven ones; someone (me peeks at bot barons) needs to write a script that pulls up a summary of those very old ones
[21:39] <Pricey> silly +Is aren't helpful either
[21:39] <Pricey> floodbot hasn't been removing all +e's either. I'll do that now
[21:39] <Pici> Pricey: Good thinking
[21:40] <Pici> nickrud: Just search for yourself in BT and see if there are any old bans that can be removed.
[21:41] <nickrud> @btlogin
[21:41] <nickrud> @login
[21:41] <nickrud> @btlogin
[21:43] <Pricey> 8 lines
[21:45] <Pricey> Much better.
[21:45] <Pricey> Would help if I didn't paste it in here first.
[21:45] <Pricey> But yes, +b probably has a few more than it needs to.
[21:45] <Pricey> *too
[21:52] <nickrud> 6 more
[22:37] <ikonia> prince_j1mmys: what's up ?
[22:48] <Seeker`> morning
[22:48] <ikonia> morning ???
[22:49] <Seeker`> evening, whatever :P
[22:50] <ikonia> Seeker`: thought you may have been in an odd time zone for an evening
[22:51] <Seeker`> heh, no
[22:51] <Seeker`> just the pub
[22:51] <ikonia> close enough
[22:55] <Grant-A> could someone help me?
[22:55] <Grant-A> I am being abused by two ops
[22:55] <Grant-A> I have screenshots
[22:55] <ikonia> Grant-A: not this again
[22:55] <ikonia> yes we know you posted them the other night
[22:55] <Grant-A> wait till you see this...
[22:55] <ikonia> is this the same thing - or has this happened again today
[22:55] <Grant-A> no, this is about jdong and p_quarels
[22:55] <Grant-A> this just happened
[22:55] <Grant-A> let me give you a log first
[22:55] <ikonia> Grant-A: one moment please
[22:56] <ikonia> I'm looking through the logs and I can't see any abuse ?
[22:56] <ikonia> who is abusing you this time
[22:57] <Seeker`> in what channel?
[22:57] <jdong> #ubuntuforums
[22:57] <Seeker`> is that an official ubuntu channel?
[22:57] <Grant-A> http://pastebin.com/m48617972
[22:57] <jdong> http://paste.ubuntu.com/114222/
[22:57] <Grant-A> ubottu is there, so I suppose so
[22:58] <ikonia> Grant-A: what is the line that botheres you ?
[22:58] <Grant-A> #
[22:58] <Grant-A> 16:51 < Grant-A> Wow, trolling, and ganging up on someone
[22:58] <Grant-A> #
[22:58] <Grant-A> 16:52 < Grant-A> very mature
[22:58] <Grant-A> #
[22:58] <Grant-A> 16:52 < jdong> garbage in, garbage out.
[22:58] <ikonia> Grant-A: they are your comments - not someone elses
[22:58] <ikonia> Grant-A: which comment by someone else bothers you
[22:58] <Grant-A> #
[22:59] <Grant-A> I just said it
[22:59] <Grant-A> Jdong's
[22:59] <ikonia> jdongs comment ?
[22:59] <Grant-A> these lines on my log:
[22:59] <ikonia> Grant-A: this is the second time in 2 days you've come in saying people are abusing you, this is the second time I cannot see anything in the log
[22:59] <Grant-A> 59-68 in particular
[22:59] <Grant-A> Jdong essentially said that everything I say is garbage!
[23:00] <ikonia> Grant-A: well your not making great "factual" statments in either the log today or yesterday 
[23:00] <Grant-A> take a nice look at these lines:
[23:00] <ikonia> I just did
[23:00] <Grant-A> 69-74
[23:00] <Grant-A> 16:53  * p_quarles gives Grant-A a phone; tells him to call someone who cares
[23:00] <ikonia> Grant-A: I think that's because of your reputation over the last few days
[23:00] <ikonia> you seem to have tried to provoke an incident 
[23:01] <Grant-A> how did I try to provoke an incident?
[23:01] <ikonia> as I said in two days you've made random logs that people /operators are abusing you
[23:01] <Seeker`> Grant-A: Having read the log, ased on what was said I dont feel that anyones comments were unjustified
[23:01] <Grant-A> made random logs?
[23:01] <Seeker`> operator abuse is someone kicking you for some invalid reason, "garbage in, garbage out" isn't really abuse
[23:02] <Grant-A> it's trolling
[23:02] <ikonia> Grant-A: it's not trolling
[23:02] <Grant-A> he is ridiculing me!
[23:02] <Seeker`> no, trolling is joining ubuntu and shouting "LINUX SUCKS"
[23:02] <ikonia> Grant-A: the phrase random logs is in reference to pulling up conversations and claiming abuse when it doesn't look like it from what I've read
[23:02] <Grant-A> he is still saying derogatory and negative comments towards me
[23:02] <Grant-A> (In the log)
[23:03] <ikonia> Grant-A: would it be less of a problem if he said "grant-a I find what you are saying not factual so I'd request you stop doing it"
[23:04] <Grant-A> ...he said everything I say is garbage... that is verbal abuse, and according to the guidelines, it warrants a kick
[23:04] <ikonia> Grant-A: would it be less of a problem if he said "grant-a I find what you are saying not factual so I'd request you stop doing it"
[23:04] <Seeker`> Grant-A: If you saw half of the things that go on, you'd realise that isn't really abuse
[23:05] <Grant-A> yes, if that was the way he said it, I wouldn't have a problem, but the manner inwhich he said it was derogatory
[23:05] <Grant-A> Seeker`: What am I not seeing? The log is there plain as day.
[23:05] <ikonia> Grant-A: I think your taking things out of context to be honest, and I think this is as a result of the comments/conversation you've made in that channel over the past day or so 
[23:05] <Seeker`> Grant-A: I mean some of the trolls / complaints that get made in here, I mean *real* abuse
[23:05] <Grant-A> I have never said anything in that channel that warrants abuse, nothing ever warrants abuse
[23:06] <ikonia> Grant-A: you've made lots of comments that are not factual and actually turn out to be wrong
[23:06] <Seeker`> I think this comes down to a differing opinion of what constitutes abuse
[23:06] <ikonia> so the "garbage in - garbage out" comment while it could have been phrased better in your eyes, is as a result or you not making factual statments which are "garbage" 
[23:07] <Grant-A> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines
[23:07] <ikonia> Grant-A: I'm well aware of them
[23:07] <Grant-A> "Personal attacks against people: ban "
[23:07] <ikonia> Grant-A: it wasn't a personal attack
[23:07] <Grant-A> saying everything I say is garbage is not a personal attack?
[23:07] <Grant-A> then what is it?
[23:07] <Grant-A> a compliment?
[23:07] <ikonia> Grant-A: no, I've just explained the phrase "garbage"
[23:08] <ikonia> jdong: you're in this channel - would you care to elaborate on this situation as I'm commenting from reading logs
[23:08] <jdong> yes, I  would; been staying silent due to conflict of interest...
[23:09] <Grant-A> on top of that, ganging up on someone and trying to 'corner' them is not abuse?
[23:09] <ikonia> jdong: I thought as much hence why I made comment based on the logs I'd read in the past two days on this
[23:09] <jdong> I'd like to say, as ikonia said, that my comments were directed at the factual accuracy of your statements, not yourself, not a personal attack.
[23:09] <ikonia> Grant-A: they are not ganing up on you, they share the same view
[23:09] <jdong> yes, I could have phrased it more politely, but frankly this is far from the first time we've had this situation, and patience is running a bit thin.
[23:09] <Grant-A> would you like to show some logs of other times this has happened?
[23:09] <ikonia> Grant-A: no - please no more logs
[23:10] <jdong> The point I was trying to make was, if you keep saying things that are factually inaccurate, it is doing a disservice to everyone else in the channel listening in
[23:10] <Grant-A> I was asking jdong
[23:10] <Seeker`> Grant-A: so if ever more than 1 person disagres with you, it counts as "ganging up" on you?
[23:10] <jdong> All I want is for a bit more judgement to be exercised before stating things as facts.
[23:10] <Grant-A> #
[23:11] <Grant-A> #
[23:11] <Grant-A> 16:43 < p_quarles> Grant-A: your memory rarely serves, in my experience;
[23:11] <Grant-A> # citation needed
[23:11] <ikonia> Grant-A: what is wrong with that ?
[23:11] <Grant-A> #
[23:11] <Grant-A> 16:50 < p_quarles> Grant-A: what would it take to surprise you? flying lamp
[23:11] <Grant-A> # chops in the weather forecast?
[23:11] <ikonia> Grant-A: ?
[23:11] <ikonia> Grant-A: your pulling random lines
[23:11] <Grant-A> from the same log
[23:11] <ikonia> Grant-A: how about posting someone of the incorrect information you post which has earned you this repuatation
[23:12] <jdong> both p_quarles and I have tried more politely to let you know that what you are saying is consistently incorrect; you failed to listen, consistently.
[23:12] <Grant-A> do you have proof that you have tried to tell me politely?
[23:12] <Grant-A> because I certainly do not remember it
[23:12] <jdong> again -- this is part of the frustration...
[23:12] <Grant-A> yes, false accusations are quite frustrating
[23:13] <Grant-A> you bark, and I bark back
[23:13] <jdong> you say the sky is purple. We disagree. You immediately put the spotlight on us to give reputable proof that the sky is blue.
[23:13] <Grant-A> wtf?
[23:13] <jdong> we are inconvenienced into dropping what we do and look for citations.
[23:13] <ikonia> Grant-A: I'll make a deal - I'll go through some logs in ubuntuforums now, and if I find jdong and / or others informing you that your not making factual statments 
[23:13] <ikonia> Grant-A: control your langauge
[23:13] <ikonia> Grant-A: we know what WTF means and we don't need to see it
[23:13] <Grant-A> ?
[23:14] <Grant-A> ok...
[23:14] <ikonia> Grant-A: according to the irc guidelines you posted to us, bad language warrents a kick - do you want to be kicked ?
[23:14] <ikonia> Grant-A: just making it clear that how you quote things at people can be used right back at you
[23:14] <Grant-A> if I get kicked and jdong does as well, then gladly
[23:14] <ikonia> Grant-A: jdong didn't use bad language
[23:15] <ikonia> Grant-A: I'm just making the point that coming in here and throwing comments as "letter of the law" can be used back at you
[23:15] <Grant-A> if the law isn't to be followed, then what is it there for?
[23:15] <Grant-A> please, if it makes the law more reputable
[23:15] <ikonia> Grant-A: eg: if I go through the logs and find other people telling you nicley to stop making incorrect statments, do I ban you from #ubuntuforums for trolling ?
[23:15] <Grant-A> I was never trolling
[23:15] <ikonia> Grant-A: eg: if I go through the logs and find other people telling you nicley to stop making incorrect statments, do I ban you from #ubuntuforums for trolling ?
[23:15] <Grant-A> I was simply trying to converse, but then people start coming in and asking me for citations!
[23:16] <Grant-A> if I'm wrong, point it out, don't just blatantly and quite rudely just throw "citation needed" at me!
[23:16] <ikonia> Grant-A: if I find people telling you nicley to be more accurrate - and you are not doing so - then thats trolling
[23:16] <Grant-A> well, go ahead and look
[23:16] <ikonia> Grant-A: ok - so thats the stance you want to take
[23:16] <Grant-A> I have no recollection whatsoever of anyone telling me nicely
[23:17] <Grant-A> and if you can't find it, then you must ban all who were rude to me
[23:17] <ikonia> Grant-A: I advise you not to go down this route, 
[23:17] <ikonia> !logs > ikonia 
[23:17] <Grant-A> fair is fair
[23:18] <Grant-A> if I go down, atleast it will have been with a fight
[23:18] <Grant-A> I will NOT stand back while being ridiculed
[23:18] <Grant-A> and I will not take blatant abuse and rudeness
[23:18] <ikonia> why do you have to fight
[23:18] <Grant-A> because abuse is not right
[23:18] <ikonia> rats, #ubuntuforums is not logged
[23:18] <jdong> to be "fair", I do not want someone who exibits the above bellingerent behavior to be in #ubuntuforums.
[23:18] <Grant-A> no matter how wrong or right someone is
[23:18] <jdong> Would you like that?
[23:19] <ikonia> Grant-A: but it can be resolved nicley 
[23:19] <jdong> I am all for a positive resolution
[23:19] <Grant-A> and it never was
[23:19] <Grant-A> that's the problem
[23:19] <ikonia> Grant-A: but your taking a very agressive stance
[23:19] <jdong> that's what this channel is here for
[23:19] <Seeker`> Grant-A: Abuse is subjective, and as an impartial observer, I feel that you are maybe taking the definition a little far
[23:19] <Grant-A> look, I'll apologize for possibly coming on as a troll, though I never meant to, if you apologize for the way you treated me
[23:19] <Grant-A> sincerlu
[23:19] <Grant-A> *sincerly
[23:20] <Seeker`> betz0r: how can we help you?
[23:20] <ikonia> Grant-A: you don't apologies is someone else does, you apologies because you want to 
[23:20] <mneptok> the comments made by jdong and p_quarles fall squarely outside the CoC, IMO.
[23:20] <ikonia> Grant-A: this is not a school play ground, I'll shake hands if he does
[23:20] <betz0r> hey guys, i am online with irssi cuz i got a serious issue with my HDD. i wannted to join #ubuntu-de but i am banned? i havent been online the last days, so i even do not know the reason. can u help me with this issue?
[23:20] <Grant-A> mneptok: thank you for agreeing with me
[23:20] <nickrud> betz0r, #ubuntu-irc for loco channels
[23:21] <betz0r> thx
[23:21] <mneptok> Grant-A: this does NOT mean "mneptok agrees entirely with Grant, and supports whatever cvlaims he may make."
[23:21] <mneptok> -v
[23:21] <ikonia> Grant-A: jdong has already said he could have phrased it better
[23:21] <ikonia> Grant-A: no-one is denying that it could have been better worded
[23:21] <Grant-A> alright then
[23:21] <ikonia> Grant-A: but you've been in for a few days making pretty "wrong" statments
[23:21] <mneptok> Grant-A: you could have walked away. you did not. you stood your ground and started throwing punches yourself. at that point, the shelter of the Ubuntu CoC is no longer available to you.
[23:22] <ikonia> and as jdong said, patience with constantly correcting you was wearing thin
[23:22] <Grant-A> throwing punches?
[23:22] <Grant-A> I never flamed back, not once.
[23:22] <Grant-A> but I'll leave that at that
[23:22] <ikonia> Grant-A: "scrot time then"
[23:22] <mneptok> 17:52 < Grant-A> Wow, trolling, and ganging up on someone
[23:22] <mneptok> 17:52 < Grant-A> very mature
[23:22] <Grant-A> yes, for evidence
[23:22] <mneptok> < Grant-A> you do realize that you are in violation of the IRC user guidelines, correct?
[23:22] <mneptok> Grant-A: need i go on?
[23:23] <Grant-A> since when is telling someone to stop against the rules?
[23:23] <nickrud> betz0r, if you're done here, please see the topic about idling
[23:23] <ikonia> Grant-A: in your own log
[23:23] <ikonia> Grant-A: yes, but that's also a threat
[23:23] <ikonia> "I'll get a screen shot and show others"
[23:23] <ikonia> Grant-A: you didn't tell anyone to stop
[23:23] <ikonia> Grant-A: show me where you asked them to stop
[23:23] <Grant-A> the "in violation of user guidelines" was meant to get them to stop
[23:23] <ikonia> Grant-A: all I see if you baiting them and threatening them (by your own rules reading the logs line for line"
[23:23] <mneptok> Grant-A: calling someone immature is certainly against the CoC
[23:23] <ikonia> Grant-A: was meant to is not doing
[23:23] <Seeker`> Grant-A: it wasn't a very nice way of trying to get them to stop
[23:23] <ikonia> Grant-A: just as someone "told you politley"
[23:24] <ikonia> Grant-A: lets put cards on the table shall we and be %100 honest
[23:24] <mneptok> Grant-A: it's not your position to enforce user guidelines on IRC. that's our job. and we'll thank you kindly to stop.
[23:24] <mneptok> Grant-A: is that crystal clear?
[23:24] <Grant-A> yes
[23:24] <mneptok> thank you.
[23:24] <Grant-A> it's perfectly clear... I see how it is.
[23:24] <Grant-A> thank you for your time...
[23:25] <jdong> Grant-A: Just like I said I could've worded *my* message more nicely, I think you could've expressed more kindly that you feel we were violating the CoC in the way we informed you were incorrect.
[23:25] <jdong> I apologize if you felt attacked, that was not my intention
[23:25] <jdong> I would just like for  you to make an honest effort at controlling the amount of incorrect information you give
[23:25] <Grant-A> and I apologize if you felt as if I was trolling, but all I was trying to do was start a conversation in a very quiet channel
[23:26] <mneptok> Grant-A: now, i humbly suggest that instead of trying to change the some of the symptoms of your behavior (people acting outside of the CoC), you instead actually change the behavior and see if the symptoms stop.
[23:26] <Grant-A> ok then
[23:26] <Grant-A> thank you for your help
[23:26] <mneptok> Grant-A: for example, before you claim there is BSD licensed code in the MS TCP/IP network stack, read the Wikipedia article on Windows TCP/Ip implementation
[23:27] <ikonia> it's not unreasonable to ask for citation on that
[23:27] <mneptok> that should alleviate people claiming you're giving out false or misleading info.
[23:27] <mneptok> and then, if they do, you can cite your source and blame the confusion on that source.
[23:27] <mneptok> "Not my problem. Go edit Wikipedia." etc etc
[23:27] <mneptok> make sense?
[23:27] <Grant-A> yes, i suppose so
[23:28] <Grant-A> but last time I read that article it claimed that the TCP/IP stack was based on BSD code
[23:28] <mneptok> i'm fairly sure this will lead to people taking you more seriosuly.
[23:28] <Grant-A> I was unaware of factual inaccuracy
[23:28] <mneptok> Grant-A: i think what i'm saying is that "the last time you read that article" needs to equate to "just before i typed that line into IRC" ;)
[23:28] <jdong> Grant-A: I understood when you made the remark of the "grain of truth" so to speak that lead you to say that
[23:29] <jdong> if this were a one-time event it wouldn't be something that bothers me
[23:29] <jdong> everyone is wrong sometimes.
[23:29] <jdong> just this seems to happen day after day
[23:29] <Grant-A> I am sorry if it seems that way, but ganging up on a user isn't quite the best way to deal with it
[23:30] <Seeker`> Grant-A: what counts as ganging up?
[23:30] <ikonia> ughhh
[23:30] <Grant-A> especially when the user has no idea that they were incorrect
[23:30] <ikonia> do you listen to what's been said in here
[23:30] <Grant-A> I will stop here
[23:30] <ikonia> or to you in the channel
[23:30] <ikonia> no-one is ganging up on you
[23:30] <Grant-A> I thank you all for your time and patience
[23:30] <ikonia> no - 
[23:30] <jdong> well I would not like to stop "here"
[23:30] <ikonia> and people are telling you about your factial incorrectness
[23:30] <jdong> we have not even begun to solve the actual problem.
[23:31] <ikonia> that has just been explained to you and you STILL think people are ganging up on you and you have no idea the comments you're making is wrong
[23:31] <jdong> I would like for you to pledge to make an extra effort to verify things you say before you say them....
[23:31] <mneptok> jdong: Rome was not built in a day. actual resolution can wait until people have cooled.
[23:31] <jdong> mneptok: agreed.
[23:31] <mneptok> perhaps everyone needs to step into the Big Blue Room, get massively drunk, and figure this out some other time.
[23:31] <ikonia> mneptok: I'm not happy with that
[23:31] <ikonia> this accusation was made yesterday also 
[23:32] <mneptok> for now, it seems Grant-A knows where he misstepped, and has agreed to look into ways to avoid future missteps. i call that a damned good day's work.
[23:32] <Grant-A> yes
[23:32] <mneptok> now, let's get liquored up.
[23:32] <Grant-A> I'll avoid making statements such as that all together, to make sure that this doesn't happen again
[23:33] <Grant-A> and to abide with the idling rule, I believe it is time for me to go
[23:33] <Grant-A> bye~
[23:33] <ikonia> I'm walking away on this now - but I'll make it public that I am not happy with this
[23:33] <mneptok> ikonia: tomorrow's another day.
[23:33] <ikonia> night chaps
[23:34] <Seeker`> night
[23:36] <jpds> Night all.