[01:12] <VSpike> Anyone got any suggestion for an ultra simple program launcher suitable for nursery/reception age children?  (3-6yrs)
[01:13] <VSpike> I keep seeing these netbooks with really simple launchers, but none of them seem to have made it out into the wider world
[01:13] <HedgeMage> VSpike: My son (about to turn 6) has been using plain old Xfce with a selection of programs linked on the desktop since he was about 3.
[01:13] <HedgeMage> VSpike: So I haven't had cause to look for anything else.
[01:13] <VSpike> HedgeMage: It's certainly one option, and not a bad one... was just looking for alternatives
[01:13] <VSpike> I thought about wbar
[01:14] <HedgeMage> If you have it narrowed down to 2-3 options I can use my kid as a guinea-pig for you. ;)
[01:14] <VSpike> :)
[01:14] <VSpike> Heh, I have 2 of my own as willing testers but thanks for the offer :D
[01:15] <VSpike> TBH I'm more worried about the adults.  I want to recycle this PC a school discarded and give it back for use in the nursery school.
[01:16] <VSpike> I just fear that if it's not instantly obvious, it won't get used or even turned on
[01:16]  * HedgeMage nods
[01:16] <VSpike> For the adults, the fact that it looks not like windows may make them not switch it on for the kids, or fear it
[01:17] <HedgeMage> :(
[01:17] <HedgeMage> I hate to see that happen.
[01:17] <HedgeMage> Of course, my response is usually to turn it on and stick a kid or two in front, then make them watch what happens.
[01:17] <VSpike> Maybe I just need to go and *show* them a bit .. a couple of top programs, like tuxpaint
[01:17] <VSpike> Mine can show the others how to use tuxpaint :)
[01:18] <VSpike> What other faves do your kids have?
[01:18] <VSpike> KTuberling is usually popular
[01:21] <HedgeMage> ri-li, tuxpaint, fillets-ng (though he only half understands it, the secret agent fish have him hooked), ktuberling, monsterz, secret maryo, frozen bubble, gcompris...
[01:24] <VSpike> thanks, will check those out
[01:24] <HedgeMage> circus linux, tux racer, and I Have No Tomatos
[01:24] <HedgeMage> that's his whole list right now :)
[01:24] <VSpike> The graphics on this machine *suck*, which rules out a lot of things
[01:25] <VSpike> Trident Cyberblade
[01:25]  * HedgeMage nods
[01:25] <VSpike> Otherwise, it's OK. Athlon XP 1800+, 1GB of "found" RAM :)
[01:25] <HedgeMage> brb
[01:25] <VSpike> Sure
[01:26] <VSpike> For some reason I can't get a working face browser for GDM, but maybe I just need to enable auto-login
[01:31] <HedgeMage> back
[01:32] <HedgeMage> I have face browser working -- note that you have to have chosen a theme that works with it
[01:32] <HedgeMage> The only one of those apps I mentioned that might be a problem on old video is tux racer -- the rest are quite tolerant
[01:37] <VSpike> hehe ri-li is fun, never seen it before
[01:37] <VSpike> I will investigate the rest, because I've only seen a couple of them
[01:39] <VSpike> Yeah, I selected a theme with face browser, just get an empty one
[01:39] <VSpike> I've tried ticking the "include all users" option, and also turning it off an adding users manually
[01:41] <HedgeMage> hang on, let me open the configurator here and I will walk you through it. :)
[01:41] <VSpike> Oh, ta :)
[01:42] <HedgeMage> Under the "Local" tab:
[01:42] <HedgeMage> Style is "Themed with face browser"
[01:42] <HedgeMage> Theme is "selected only"
[01:43] <HedgeMage> From themes, choose "Happy Gnome with Browser" or "Human List"
[01:44] <HedgeMage> Then under the "Users" tab:
[01:45] <HedgeMage> Check "Include all users from /etc/passwd (not for NIS)"
[01:45] <HedgeMage> make sure you have a default face selected, and a faces dir with faces for people to choose
[01:45] <HedgeMage> Under the "Security" tab:
[01:46] <VSpike> Ah, you got it, thanks!
[01:46] <HedgeMage> Starting about halfway down
[01:46] <HedgeMage> set "Minimal UID" to 1000
[01:46] <VSpike> Didn't spot that I had to have "Themed with face browser" in style as well as selecting a theme with a face browser
[01:46] <HedgeMage> Uncheck "Allow local system administrator login"
[01:47] <HedgeMage> and check "Only allow login if user owns their home directory"
[01:47] <HedgeMage> No problem!
[01:47] <HedgeMage> do check those security settings even if everything else works, they can save you some headaches.
[01:48] <VSpike> Thanks, I have those ones as you say
[01:49] <HedgeMage> cool :)
[01:49] <VSpike> Just wondering, is there any way to customise the menus in GDM? I think you kinda need the power ones, but I'd like to get rid of the language and session ones
[01:49] <VSpike> It's a small thing but I can see people accidentally changing it and then getting confused
[01:50] <VSpike> Probably have to hit the gdm config file
[01:50] <HedgeMage> nah
[01:50] <HedgeMage> under the "local" tab:
[01:50] <HedgeMage> Uncheck "Show Actions Menu" -- it's just under the list of available themes.
[01:52] <VSpike> Doesn't that get rid of the power control options too?
[01:52]  * VSpike tries
[01:52] <HedgeMage> I didn't think so, but check and find out
[01:53] <HedgeMage> I have it all enabled here.  I'm the only one who uses my laptop, and the other box with a gui is only used by my son and I.
[01:53] <HedgeMage> He's been well indoctrinated in the world of Linux, he can actually select the correct kernel from a list on bootup!  (Our shared box is my dev box, so it's a mix of normal and unstable stuff)
[01:54] <VSpike> Heh it does the exact opposite of what I want :) remove the power stuff, keep the other stuff
[01:54] <VSpike> I'll have a look in the gdm config file and google a bit - just wondered if you knew
[01:55] <HedgeMage> hang on let me look at one other thing...
[01:55] <VSpike> those menus (language, session) exhibit a behaviour that I see quite often in ubuntu - they start scrolled down so that the selected option is at the bottom and the only one visible
[01:55] <VSpike> and the rest of the menu is empty space
[01:57] <HedgeMage> nope...I have no clue
[01:57] <VSpike> :) thanks for looking
[02:07] <HedgeMage> np
[03:27] <cdshan>  Hello! I have installed ubuntu 8.04 LTS server on my machine.  I have installed ltps and have configured dhcp.  The client boots into to the login screen but gives me an error message saying that .xsessions file is not present and window manager is not found.  What should I do?
[03:32] <HedgeMage> cdshan: you might want to repeat your question for ogra -- he knows more about LTSP than me
[03:36] <cdshan> this is the error I am getting after I enter the user name and password:
[03:36] <cdshan> Xsession: X session started for shan at Fri Feb  6 19:16:34 IST 2009
[03:36] <cdshan> Xsession: unable to start X session --- no "/home/shan/.xsession" file, no
[03:36] <cdshan> "/home/shan/.Xsession" file, no session managers, no window managers, and no
[03:36] <cdshan> terminal emulators found; aborting.
[13:59] <Nubae-laptop> hey there folks
[13:59] <Nubae-laptop> reporting from Fossdem
[14:00] <Nubae-laptop> Where I had a great talk with the kde guys
[14:00] <Nubae-laptop> who basically reiterated the fact the it is now an education project
[14:01] <Nubae-laptop> I strongly agree now with Laserjock and others that we should move to kd
[14:01] <Nubae-laptop> kde
[14:02]  * ogra wasnt aware LaserJock wanted that
[14:03] <Nubae-laptop> I was shown some example plasmoid apps that were education based that were extremely simply coded but amazingly useful. Basically kde 4 has become THE edu platform (apart from sugar) I think we should seriously discusss the move towards kde for edubuntu
[14:03] <Nubae-laptop> laserjock was the one who inititated this
[14:03] <ogra> as an optional thing as i understood
[14:03] <Nubae-laptop> optional?
[14:03] <ogra> whch exists since gutwsy but isnt maintained
[14:04] <Nubae-laptop> look, the point here is kde-edu has a massive amount of devs compared to edubuntu
[14:04] <Nubae-laptop> we need them
[14:04] <Nubae-laptop> we need plasmoidsç
[14:04] <ogra> as i understood him he was looking for maintainers taking care of edubuntu-addon-kde
[14:04] <ogra> which is dead since it exists
[14:04] <Nubae-laptop> perhaps, because we are going about it the wrong way
[14:04] <Nubae-laptop> we need to really involve the kde community
[14:05] <ogra> well, edubuntu is an educational addon
[14:05] <ogra> and needs to involve both communities of the big desktops
[14:05] <ogra> or even the small ones
[14:06] <ogra> in any cas its an addon and shouldnt care about the underlying desktops ... the addon and artwork packages need to integrate with both
[14:06] <ogra> (or all three if you count in xfce)
[14:08] <ogra> note that the edu apps were always used in a cross desktop manner in edubuntu
[14:09] <ogra> the only thing that was focused directly on the dektop was always only the artwork related issues (usplash, wallpaper, icons)
[14:09] <ogra> if you really want to re-fuel the old desktop wars, go for it ... but imho focusing on a single undelying desktop is the totally wrong approach
[14:10] <ogra> it is an addon, leave it being an addon and make sure the respective communities help with DE artwork integration
[14:13] <ogra> the only time wheer the desktop counted was when we still were building integrated installer CDs ... we siwtched away from that to exactly avoid the desktop specific issues ...
[15:33] <alkisg> Well, we should probably start with asking for ltsp to support KDE :P :) :D
[15:34] <ogra> send patches :P
[15:36] <ogra> we made an attempt pre-gutsy to at least get their volume control working ... but the fixes never made it into productions
[15:36] <ogra> -s
[15:36] <ogra> local devices support needs hal integration to properly work with KDE since it doesnt monitor /media like gvfs and gio do
[15:36] <alkisg> I'll give it a shot -probably at summer- but you know that greater forces would be needed :)
[15:37] <ogra> and there is a lot more
[15:37] <alkisg> Ouch... forget it, I don't know what you're talking about! :D :D :D
[15:37] <ogra> i know tha stgraber was pretty desparate with all the issues KDE had
[15:37] <ogra> though that was 3.x
[15:38] <ogra> its likely the perfect time to avoid all the issues from the start in KDE 4
[15:38] <alkisg> So if hal was used, then that would work in gnome also? Or are you talking about completely different implementations? (about localdevs)
[15:39] <ogra> the prob is that you need a connection between the session dbus on teh server and the system dbus on the client for ltspfs via hal
[15:39] <ogra> once you have that, you solve ltspfs for all desktops, shutdown/reboot/suspend ... and a lot more
[15:40] <alkisg> Doesn't sshfs now support all the things ltsp needs to replace ltspfs? (I thought it was missing some stat* function that got implemented later on...)
[15:40] <ogra> the only attempt i have seen yet that could work is a very hackish addition to dbus clled gabriael
[15:40] <ogra> *gabriel
[15:40] <ogra> that tried to establish an ssh tunnel between two machines to forward dbus
[15:41] <alkisg> OK, I'm certain that this isn't for me. :) So I'll just join the fan club with nubae and LaserJock and ask scotty / stgraber and the rest to support KDE :P :D
[15:41] <ogra> ltspfs is two parts ... the transport protocol (ltspfs and ltspfsd) and the mont scripts
[15:41] <ogra> the mount scripts need to be replaced by proper hal and dbus implementation, ltspfs transport is fine
[15:42] <ogra> hacking up sshfs for it would be an option indeed, but the prob lies elsewhere
[15:43] <ogra> the ltspfs communication layer needs to be fixed to work with all desktops which means to use hal and dbus instead of scripts that talk though the ssh tunnel
[15:43] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspfs-hal-root.png
[15:44] <ogra> that was the start of an attempt i made, but due to lacking time i never finished any actual implementation
[15:44] <alkisg> Argh... lucky netmobile users...
[15:45] <ogra> it created an ltspfs root device ... hal would then need to be hacked up to attach all client side devces to this rootdevice
[15:45] <ogra> then you could add .fdi files that make it use the ltspfs transport layer
[21:18] <nothingman> hi, all
[21:19] <Meshezabeel> heya nothingman
[21:19] <nothingman> what's new?
[21:19] <Meshezabeel> not much, you?
[21:19] <nothingman> besides I have three servers going now
[21:19] <Meshezabeel> wow :)
[21:19] <nothingman> one's my laptop, and I had some students at my smaller school logged in on laptops as thin clients
[21:20] <nothingman> after they left, I realized I had to add the fstab entry to mount the /home directory for the fat clients, so I played with that myself for a little bit
[21:20] <nothingman> need more RAM before things will work right, though
[21:20] <nothingman> :-P
[21:21] <nothingman> my laptop crawls with 5 logged-in thin client users, or 3 fat clients at login screen
[21:22] <Meshezabeel> lol, it's rare for a laptop to be a server ;)
[21:22] <nothingman> heh
[21:22] <nothingman> no desktops with decent enough specs at that school
[21:23] <nothingman> in fact, when I walk in my laptop's the best suited for the purpose
[21:23] <nothingman> but I'll probably still have to double my RAM to serve 9 clients
[21:25] <Meshezabeel> lol, indeed
[21:25] <Meshezabeel> I can just hear the fan running at full speed :p
[21:26] <nothingman> actually, it does OK
[21:27] <nothingman> I should probably kill gdm
[21:27] <nothingman> gain back about half
[21:28] <alkisg> My laptop (core 2 duo 2Ghz / 4 Gb RAM) works fine as an ltsp server with 8 clients, and I think it could handle twice as much... :)
[21:29] <nothingman> yeah
[21:29] <nothingman> mine's an Athlon 3200 with 1Gb
[21:30] <nothingman> up to 2.0Ghz
[21:30] <alkisg> ..and 100mpbs ethernet?
[21:30] <nothingman> yup
[21:30] <nothingman> that's what's gonna kill me, I think
[21:31] <alkisg> Yeah, with 2 gb ram you could serve 10 clients, but with 100 mbps you won't be able to provide good screen refreshing
[21:32] <nothingman> well, I'm hoping to use fat clients, but I still have to use a good amount of bandwidth for each client to access the NBD, right?
[21:33] <alkisg> I don't think so, at least booting (I didn't test fat clients) wasn't so bad with 100mbps
[21:34] <alkisg> I guess it's ok for fat clients