[00:12] <ScottK> rgreening: Seen: http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=906
[00:22] <ScottK> Riddell and rgreening: If upstream is saying "Don't run 4.2 on Qt 4.5", it seems pretty risky to me.
[01:37] <lex79> ScottK: I'm trying to build kvpnc but I have this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/115838/
[01:37] <lex79> file rules http://paste.ubuntu.com/115837/
[01:38] <lex79> there isn't file configure in src, there was in old version
[01:38] <ScottK> This is a new release you are packaging?
[01:39] <lex79> yes
[01:39] <ScottK> You need to run build-prep
[01:39] <ScottK> make -f debian/rules build-prep I think.
[01:41] <ScottK> lex79: Is this something that can even work in Jaunty?
[01:42] <quassel17> for kpackagekit in jaunty is there something i need to do to be able to search and install stuff? do i have to reload the repos first?
[01:42] <lex79> kvpnc is a new release for kde4
[01:42] <jjesse-jaunty> also when i launched it from krunner it did not ask for my sudo password
[01:42] <ScottK> lex79: In that case does it use Cmake?
[01:42] <lex79> in repository there is a version for kde3
[01:42] <lex79> it uses cmake
[01:43] <ScottK> You need to change kde.mk to kde4.mk
[01:43] <jjesse-jaunty> installed kpackagekit from universe in jaunty btw in case that matters
[01:43] <lex79> ok..
[01:43] <lex79> ok but build-prep failed...
[01:43] <lex79> make: *** No rule to make target `build-prep'.  Stop.
[01:43] <ScottK> Build-prep was for a KDE 3 pacakge.
[01:43] <ScottK> I didn't know it was KDE4.
[01:44] <ScottK> No build-prep for KDE4.
[01:44] <lex79> ah ok
[01:44] <ScottK> kde4.mk also has the cmake.mk in it too.
[01:45] <lex79> ScottK: I have to add cmake.mk in debian/rules or only add kde4.mk ?
[01:45] <ScottK> Only kde4.mk.
[02:16] <jjesse-jaunty> hrmm kpackagekit from jaunty universe after a refresh of package list 45 minutes ago still shows "unknown" state
[03:27] <rgreening> DOes anyone know if EXT4 and all related tools are in for Jaunty yet?
[03:27] <JontheEchidna> Ext4 is in with the latest kernel, iirc
[03:28] <ScottK> ext4 yes, all related tools, no.
[03:29] <ScottK> Any idea how long koffice takes to build?
[03:30] <ScottK> It needs fixoring for libpoppler3 -> 4, no more arts, and no more kdelibs-doc.
[03:30] <ScottK> So I figured three cruft tasks piled up against one package was worth doing.
[03:34] <lex79> Sorry for the question...When I have to put in the package, package.install file ?
[03:34] <vorian> ScottK: about an hour on a dualcore
[03:34] <lex79> http://paste.ubuntu.com/115852/
[03:34] <ScottK> Lovely.
[03:34] <lex79> needs to create package.install ?
[03:34] <ScottK> vorian: Thanks.
[03:34] <vorian> no problemo ScottK :)
[03:35] <vorian> lex79: for multi-binary you need install files
[03:35] <lex79> vorian thanks
[03:35] <vorian> lex79: no problemo
[03:36] <vorian> for this, you could use a -data package
[03:36] <vorian> ScottK: it takes just as long to upload it seems :)
[03:37] <ScottK> Fortunately it's just a new revision so I don't need to upload the whole thing.
[03:38] <rgreening> ScottK: whats missing?
[03:39] <ScottK> rgreening: ? From what?
[03:39] <rgreening> ScottK: Does grub support it yet for me to boot from it? (EXT4)
[03:39] <rgreening> re; related tools for ext4
[03:39] <ScottK> I think so.  I saw some email about a libparted update, but I haven't really tracked it closely.
[03:39] <ScottK> I know DI supports it.
[03:40] <rgreening> Im thinking on taking the plunge....
[03:41]  * vorian wishes rgreening the best of luck :)
[03:42] <ScottK> Without actually knowing, I'd guess it very likely that if you can catch jdong on #ubuntu-motu he'll be able to precisely tell you where we are.
[03:43] <vorian> are we transitioning qtcurve from kde4-style-qtcurve in jaunty?
[03:43] <vorian> JontheEchidna: ^^
[03:57] <ScottK> We'd need a MIR for qtcurve to start with, but I'm all for it.
[03:57] <ScottK> seele: ^^^ Do you know?
[04:47] <a|wen> ScottK, vorian: we might need a revert for bug 292576 as well before moving it
[04:48] <ScottK> a|wen: That's not part of the 4.1.4 stuff.  It can stand or fall separately.
[04:49] <a|wen> weren't you talking about jaunty (as a MIR was involved)?
[04:50] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: and thx for migrating the todo/status!
[04:52] <a|wen> ScottK: and needs fixing in jaunty too
[04:52] <ScottK> Ah, right.
[05:01] <seele> ScottK: nope, i've no idea
[05:01] <ScottK> OK.
[05:04] <rgreening> seele: I've started looking at kpackagekit changes. I think I have a better handle on it now.
[05:07] <seele> rgreening: ok cool
[05:07] <seele> let me know how things go
[05:07] <nixternal> sebas: thanks for that post about not using Qt 4.5 with KDE 4.2
[05:07] <nixternal> wasabi peeps
[05:07]  * seele waves at nixternal 
[05:08] <rgreening> I may have somethnig by end of day tomorrow (if all goes well) seele
[05:15] <a|wen> ScottK: oem seems seriously broken in hardy ... choosing english+english and you want get further than the choose language step in oem-config; choosing english+german and you get through oem-config (but everything is still in english)
[05:16] <a|wen> still no idea if it is a regression, though
[05:25] <a|wen> ScottK: oh, we also need to verify bug 318866 before 4.1.4 can get copied (i have no printer here, so can't test)
[05:28] <nixternal> rgreening: you pinged me yesterday about the front page, care to ellaborate so I don't have to go back in the IRC history (there are 20GBs of that)
[05:28] <rgreening> nixternal: hey
[05:29] <rgreening> nixternal: someone indicated you were going to look at the Konqueror start page (I believe that was it)
[05:30] <rgreening> anyway, the items is listed on the Kubuntu TODO in the ~topic
[05:30] <rgreening> ~topic
[05:30] <kubotu> incorrect usage, ask for help using 'kubotu: help topic'
[05:31] <nixternal>  win7ternal <- that might be why I wasn't paying much attention to that page...my nick didn't highlight when I went to it
[05:32] <nixternal> "get flash" link  <- I would be the wrong person to add such a link since I am anti-Flash
[05:43] <a|wen> ScottK: er, the language is changed to german, just not for kde
[05:50] <nixternal> rgreening: there, fixed my name and set it to WIP - how do we want to do that flash link?
[05:51] <nixternal> I think we should leave that link out and put "Use Firefox for web browsing because Konqueror sucks right now"
[05:51] <rgreening> nixternal: Not sure. Do we have any flash experts?
[05:52] <rgreening> nixternal: it would be nice to have a Kubuntu specific flash anim to show via an <embed> which would force the installer to request flash to be installed
[05:52] <nixternal> I don't
[05:52] <nixternal> flash and konqueror is like beer fruit, they don't mix
[05:53] <nixternal> beer and fruit
[05:53] <nixternal> jeesh :)
[05:53] <rgreening> nixternal: what about the artwork guys? can anyone whip up something? Maybe seele can assist in describing something nice to show
[05:53] <rgreening> konq4 works better with flash
[05:53] <nixternal> see, when I signed on to do the konqi front page, it was to doctor it up for Kubuntu, not add flash crap
[05:54] <nixternal> konq might work better with flash, but its 1980s back end doesn't work well with websites
[05:54] <nixternal> it is slow and decreped (I know I didn't spell that right)
[05:55] <rgreening> nixternal: lol. true. no one expects you to write flash. however, writing a start page and making it part of k-d-s... just work in adding an embedded flash (we'll have to figure out how to get that piece done)
[05:56] <nixternal> holy shit, gmail and konqueror still blows goat ass
[05:56] <rgreening> maybe theres a utility to convert some pictures to flash. We can take some Kubuntu images and make a swf
[05:57] <rgreening> nixternal: set browser agent to safari to get the advanced features
[06:07] <nixternal> rgreening: that makes it even worse
[06:07] <rgreening> lol
[10:23] <Tonio_> hi there
[10:24] <freeflying> hi Tonio_
[10:28] <Riddell> hi Tonio_, back from fosdem ok?
[10:29] <Riddell> fosdem is strange, you get these old tramps coming in and sleeping http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/3263831615/ :)
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm sick, really sick.... fever and so on...
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's why I slept a bit during the conferences :) and why I wasn't very talkative....
[10:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm not at work today, because of that..
[10:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: how was the event or you ?
[10:31] <Riddell> Tonio_ not talking?  that really is an illness
[10:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: :)
[10:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's to be added to the broken foot... but the mind is good, that's the point
[10:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: and I'm there contributing, so everything's perfect :)
[10:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's your feeling about augeas ?
[10:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: it really is a great opportunity to write graphical frontends for system configuration imho
[10:39] <Tonio_> Riddell, rgreening: KDS uploaded with predefined kpackagekit settings for non automatic upgrades
[10:39] <raphink> hi Tonio_, Riddell && freeflying
[10:40] <Tonio_> raphink: have a warning on the "augeas" term ? :)
[10:40] <freeflying> raphink: long time no see :)
[10:44] <Riddell> Tonio_: it does look very interesting
[10:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think so too :)
[10:47] <raphink> Tonio_: yes
[10:47] <raphink> yes freeflying indeed
[11:22] <Tonio_> is there a ppa for quassel backports to hardy ?
[11:34] <ScottK> Tonio_: Not hardy.  It tried it once and it FTBFS on hardy.  Someone would have to disable the KDE integration.
[11:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum, yeah, cdbs may also not be compatible, since no kde4.mk
[11:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: we should take care at that since many people would like to get the serveur part working on an hardy box, no ?
[11:37] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think that's reasonable, but I'd prefer to wait for the 0.4 release to do an official backport.
[11:37] <Tonio_> hum oki :)
[11:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: also since you're there, do you have an example of working watch file for sourceforge ?
[11:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: the uscan documentation seems outdated....
[11:38] <Tonio_> ScottK: the debian redirector gives me a wonderfull "403" error code...
[11:38] <Tonio_> ScottK: and the alternative doesn't see any file...
[11:39] <ScottK> Tonio_: If the Debian redirector is down, it's temporary.
[11:40] <ScottK> I'd still use that approach.
[11:44] <ScottK> vorian: kpovmodeler is moved to multiverse, so you can upload the update now.
[11:54] <ScottK> It'd be really handy if someone with 4.1 on Intrepid could verify Bug #318866.  I don't have a local printer to test with.
[11:54] <ScottK> a|wen: Good catch.
[12:00] <Tonio_> someone to revu this please ? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/skrooge
[12:00] <Tonio_> we had kmymoney in the repos, I think it would be nice to get that one in...
[12:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I've just asked wstephens about the PNM and networkstatus... doesn't work at the moment, and it would be nice to make it to work :)
[12:40] <Tonio_> especially for kontact and kopete
[12:41] <Tonio_> also, this is a regression we have compared to kde3
[12:45] <Riddell> I'd just be happy if plasmoid-network-manager worked at all
[13:21] <rgreening> Tonio_: hey. Sry about your feeling sick. I see revu has your k3b package and it needs some attention. We'd like to get a package into the PPA as some people would like ot test ahead of time more thouroughly. And we only have days left till FF. Thoughts?
[13:21] <rgreening> Tonio_: maybe kubuntu testing PPA?
[13:21] <Tonio_> rgreening: I can fix the packaging for the lacks in it, but there is nothing new in svn....
[13:22] <Tonio_> rgreening: I don't know if anything will be fixed at time for FF... and if an exception could be handled on that point
[13:22] <Tonio_> rgreening: the packaging was a very first shot btw, but I'll try get it cleaned today, no pb
[13:22] <rgreening> Tonio_: That's ok. I think we do really need ot get the package tested
[13:22] <Tonio_> rgreening: kubuntu experimental ppa right ?
[13:23] <rgreening> Tonio_: I had no issues, but some said they did. Not sure if it was same SVN rev as I tested.
[13:23] <rgreening> Riddell, ScottK? ^^
[13:23] <rgreening> which PPA
[13:23] <rgreening> suggestion?
[13:23] <rgreening> Tonio_: prob as good as any unless Riddell or ScottKsay otherwise
[13:23] <Tonio_> rgreening: first thing is to split the libraries in 2 for the multiverse deps
[13:24] <rgreening> Tonio_: you da man. I really really really want to kick kde3 from the disk. :)
[13:24] <Tonio_> rgreening: let's go on the packaging :)
[13:25] <rgreening> Tonio_: Im working a patch today for kpackagekit. To give it a more user friendly Add/Remove which only shows apps. Hopefully today anyway.
[13:26] <Tonio_> rgreening: yeah, that would be nice since the current thing is a bit hard to figure out :)
[13:26] <Tonio_> rgreening: thanks for the patching effort :)
[13:26] <Tonio_> rgreening: will that replace the + and - icons ?
[13:26] <rgreening> Tonio_: np. I like the fact I can get my code in there :) heh
[13:26] <Tonio_> since the +- one drives me nuts :)
[13:27] <Tonio_> rgreening: "add somethign to delete", won't make sense for anyone I guess hehe :)
[13:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: doesn't work for you ?
[13:27] <ghostcube> ScottK i thought about what you said last night to use an package instead of patching source but isnt this dangerous too so u dont know what is codet inside the plasmoid maybe hehe
[13:27] <ghostcube> btw morning guys
[13:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: last PNM upload add an issue on the "create" call for new networks
[13:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just uploaded with a fix for that, so it may work for you toonight
[13:29] <ghostcube> going to test kde 4.2 now on xp :)
[13:29] <ghostcube> its just updating
[13:30] <Tonio_> ghostcube: I'd be very interested in the status of kmail :)
[13:31] <ScottK> ghostcube: Both approachs have their risks.  If you patch the KDE source then you hand the risk to every Kubuntu user.  If you package it separately, then the only people who get it are the ones who opt-in.
[13:32] <Riddell> Tonio_: currently it only works for me if knetworkmanager is also running
[13:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: weird...
[13:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: what I'd suggest :
[13:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: delete anything related to PNM in your kde4 wallet
[13:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: uninstall knetworkmanager
[13:33] <rgreening> pnm works fine for me with esiting configure wep or eth
[13:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: delete .kde/share/config/knetwork* and .kde/share/apps/knetwork*
[13:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: reboot and test :)
[13:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: things were changed deeply recently, so your existing datas might cause problems
[13:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: especially in the wallet, since that part was rewritten from scratch
[13:34] <Tonio_> rgreening: I've tested with wep, wpa 1&2, no pb on my side
[13:36] <rgreening> yup. no issues here
[13:37] <rgreening> Riddell: update-notifier-kde 0.10 FTBFS
[13:37] <rgreening> looking for /usr/bin/extract-messages.sh
[13:38] <nixternal> http://qashapp.blogspot.com/2009/02/my-wife-gave-up-on-kde.html  <- has everyone read this and the comments? there are some things we should look into...maybe instead of spending so much time catching up (Gap Analysis) maybe we should start looking at fixing issues...I know I have been super busy lately with personal work, but I would love to help get us back in shape
[13:39] <rgreening> rgreening: does this mean we need a dep on pkg-kde-tools in update-notifier-kde Riddell?
[13:39] <nixternal> in his post, only #1 can be fixed by us
[13:40] <rgreening> nixternal: maybe we shouldn't be backporting it at all. :)
[13:40] <rgreening> let 4.1 live there.
[13:41] <nixternal> #2 - I have 8 cores, 16GB of ram, and 4 SAS drives in RAID 0, and it is still slow, using Ubuntu
[13:41] <nixternal> rgreening: backporting is fine, just need to test it and fix it a bit more possibly
[13:41] <rgreening> nixternal: I think his issues are graphics related (prob has wrong driver)
[13:41] <nixternal> #3 - I have noticed the degredation as well wtih graphics
[13:42] <nixternal> using Intel
[13:42] <rgreening> nixternal: Has he open bugs for the issues?
[13:42] <nixternal> OpenSUSE on this same laptop and Debian run very well
[13:42] <nixternal> I doubt it
[13:42] <nixternal> as I am sure there are already bugs for everything he described
[13:42] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, I know there are
[13:43] <rgreening> I have intel and my system has always been snappy. I have an older system too.
[13:43] <nixternal> #5 - that tells me he is using NVIDIA probably
[13:43] <nixternal> #6 - who in their right mind utilizes AWT java apps?
[13:43] <rgreening> In fact I have Kubuntu Intrepid and Jaunty running on 3 systems with 0 issues. All intel based.
[13:43] <a|wen> nixternal: on the positive - #4, we already made it able to disable it for eg. copy jobs
[13:43] <nixternal> when will people realize that java sucks for desktop applications? I am a java developer and know it only belongs on the server
[13:43] <rgreening> My parents use one and my wife the other. they'd complain about any issues.
[13:44] <rgreening> java -> bin.Trash.execute()
[13:44] <nixternal> rgreening: 0 issues? that is a bit hard to believe...there are a bunch of issues, some just not as noticeable and not all KDE/Kubuntu's fault either
[13:44] <Riddell> rgreening: yes it does
[13:45] <nixternal> java as a server app > * :)
[13:45] <rgreening> nixternal: ok, I don't use bluetooth and use the system for Net, Main, developing and it's all Intel based.
[13:46] <rgreening> so I have zero issues for the most common things we use as a family :)
[13:46] <nixternal> same here
[13:46] <rgreening> Riddell: will you update it?
[13:46] <nixternal> you don't use Konqueror do you? :p
[13:46] <rgreening> nixternal: Yes. I hate FF
[13:46] <Riddell> rgreening: yes can do
[13:46] <rgreening> Riddell: ty
[13:47] <nixternal> the bug jam next week, I am spending 3 days working on Kubuntu bugs and I hope everyone else is as well :)
[13:47] <nixternal> actually that is in about 2 weeks
[13:48] <ghostcube> ScottK true
[13:48] <ghostcube> Tonio_: will tell u :)
[13:48] <Tonio_> nixternal: IMHO, and that's why I never worked on SRUs, I consider this dangerous
[13:48] <Tonio_> nixternal: especially with 4.2
[13:49] <Tonio_> nixternal: it is not the first time we broke things on a stable release, and btw, it takes a long time to work on those...
[13:49] <seele> Tonio_: in Riddell's picture.. are you sleeping with a cane?
[13:49] <Tonio_> nixternal: especially since the QA performed on SRUs on the long term...
[13:50] <Tonio_> seele: yeah, I was sick, with fever, no way to sleep the night before and a broken foot :)
[13:51] <Tonio_> seele: where are the pictures ?
[13:51] <Tonio_> nixternal: for new kde versions there should be a repo, but no SRUs imho.... maybe that should be discussed in the next meeting
[13:52] <a|wen> Tonio_: but SRU's are pretty much needed, unless we can make everything perfect prior to release ... and there is a reason why 4.2 wasn't an SRU
[13:52] <seele> Tonio_: ow, broken foot
[13:52] <seele> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/3263831615/
[13:52] <Tonio_> a|wen: fixing bugs is better than regressions
[13:52] <a|wen> Tonio_: but grave bugs needs to be fixed in the stable release
[13:53] <Tonio_> a|wen: and a 6 month dev cycle is acceptable to keep a 4.1 in place
[13:53] <Tonio_> a|wen: let's patch then :)
[13:53] <Tonio_> a|wen: do you have an example of "grave" bug that 4.2 fixed ?
[13:53] <Tonio_> a|wen: I have several examples of "grave" bugs 4.2 on intrepid added
[13:54] <a|wen> Tonio_: 4.2 was NOT put as an SRU, and will never be
[13:54] <ScottK> nixternal: The thing about the bluetooth errors is already fixed.
[13:54] <a|wen> Tonio_: and that was exactly why
[13:54] <Tonio_> a|wen: true the example is bad, sorry for that
[13:54] <Tonio_> a|wen: why ? because we tested 4.1 work weeks on intrepid
[13:54] <Tonio_> a|wen: how long was 4.2 tested ? couple of hours (that's exagerated, I know, but that's for the example)
[13:55] <a|wen> Tonio_: because 4.2 was not a point release ... the 4.1.3 and 4.1.4 has been / will be SRU'ed
[13:55] <Tonio_> a|wen: and again, was there a "grave" bug with 4.1 ? I only see features missing
[13:55] <ScottK> nixternal: On the graphics front, Ubuntu dropped the X compiz hack that was slowing us down.  A fixed package is in both my PPA and kubuntu-experimental.
[13:56] <Tonio_> a|wen: the thing is, when 4.2 is released AND packaged, people want to test, and since we cannot test as long as in the dev cycle, there are regressions
[13:56] <a|wen> Tonio_: currently 4.1.4 has been in -proposed for 27 days
[13:56] <Tonio_> a|wen: that's a lot worse than not releasing and say "wait 3 month for the next release"
[13:56] <Tonio_> a|wen: consequences of this are a lot better
[13:56] <Tonio_> a|wen: added to this, that prevents wasting time on this, and gives a better result on the n+1 release... my opinion
[13:56] <a|wen> Tonio_: and i'm sure ScottK can give you a nice list of bugs fixed by 4.1.3/4.1.4
[13:57] <Tonio_> a|wen: as said, that's my personal opinion :)
[13:57] <nixternal> ScottK: ya, that's why I said only #1 pertains to Kubuntu, the rest is Ubuntu in general
[13:57] <nixternal> Tonio_: agreed!
[13:57] <Tonio_> a|wen: maybe this is to be considered for LTS releases only
[13:57] <ScottK> I've in turn used 4.1.2, 4.1.3, and 4.1.4.  Each one has gotten better.
[13:57] <a|wen> Tonio_: it's completely fair ... but if you look at SRU's, comparing it to 4.2 has no relevance at all (they are indeed experimental)
[13:58] <Tonio_> a|wen: my collegues tried 4.2 on intrepid and had a lot of issues, and all of them said me "don't release backports/updates/whatever, is no QA is performed on them"
[13:58] <ScottK> I do think we may advertise the PPA a bit too heavily and downplay it's experimental nature.
[13:58] <Tonio_> a|wen: no packages released, they wouldn't have considered that a problem
[13:58] <Tonio_> ScottK: yeah, that would be good
[13:59] <Tonio_> ScottK: when the announcment is on kubuntu.org, they considered this part of the distro
[13:59] <Tonio_> ScottK: and they expect something stable
[13:59] <ScottK> Tonio_: When it comes to stable updates the 4.1.x updates have been heavily tested and to say otherwise is complete bullshit.
[13:59] <a|wen> Tonio_: i agree! ... but the SRU's of 4.1.x i still support 110%
[13:59] <ScottK> Tonio_: I'm not aware of any regressions from putting 4.1.3 in -updates.
[13:59] <Tonio_> ScottK: I said I missed the point with SRUs and was talking about 4.2/major releases
[13:59] <ScottK> OK.
[14:00] <Tonio_> ScottK: btw, where is the QA plan ? we don't have any (a real one I mean) even with jaunty :)
[14:00] <Tonio_> ScottK: testing is different that performing real QA
[14:00] <a|wen> Tonio_: then it seems we actually do agree ...
[14:00] <nixternal> to me 4.2 is the best yet...from what I have seen everyone in here has done an amazing job with the resources...I know I sound like an ass when I sit here and say what I say, especially when I have been MIA for damn near a year now...I hate being useless and want to fix that...
[14:01] <Tonio_> ScottK: but that's everyone's fault (including me) and we should consider discussing a real QA/release/backport policy
[14:01] <nixternal> I think I have gotten some what tired of packaging since that is what I tend to do quite a bit of at work, all be it CentOS/Red Hat packaging :/
[14:01] <ScottK> Tonio_: True, but I don't think we have the people for true QA.
[14:01] <Tonio_> ScottK: what to backport, what to test, and how can we consider something "tested"
[14:01] <ScottK> nixternal: Then write some docs.
[14:01] <nixternal> I am definitely tired of that
[14:01] <Tonio_> ScottK: true that, but that's something I'd like to discuss and eventually work on for a long time
[14:01] <Tonio_> ScottK: we should have a QA team btw, and advertise this
[14:01] <nixternal> I have to write that crap all day at work now...I enjoyed it more when it was a hobby, but my job has ruined my passion for documenting
[14:02] <Tonio_> ScottK: I don't blame your work, not at all, on SRUs, backports and so on
[14:02] <Tonio_> ScottK: I just consider the team too small, and the QA process inexistant, for this things to be handled properly
[14:03] <Tonio_> ScottK: your technical capabilities and hard work on this may not be sufficiant.... personal opinion, once again
[14:03] <nixternal> it seems the Ubuntu side has full-time QA and are working on automated tools and what not...maybe we need to approach them for some input...though automated tools don't catch everything and some people may not like them, they do tend to help with the tedious stuff
[14:03] <Tonio_> ScottK: and that's everyone's fault, including me not to do this
[14:03] <Tonio_> ScottK: we don't even have a "app by app" list of features to test
[14:04] <Tonio_> ScottK: we should write something, on the wiki, to start a real QA plan, at least
[14:04] <ScottK> So far the experience we've had with 4.1.x SRU seems good.  JontheEchidna and other triagers have been pointing me at bugs when they come up. a|wen has been doing a great job of finding patches in the KDE svn.
[14:04] <nixternal> argh, I am going to miss the 8:50 train...must...get...ready....for...work :(
[14:04] <nixternal> ScottK: everyone has been doing an amazing job imho, including you :)
[14:04] <Tonio_> ScottK: who had tested sieve support in kontact, it hangs the CPU to 100%, nobody knows, and nobody knows this should be tested, except from the people actually using this, like me...
[14:05] <ScottK> True.
[14:05] <Tonio_> ScottK: who has ever tested all protocol/network in kopete ? :) etc.....
[14:05] <ScottK> I agree it could be better, but I also think we'll never get 100% test coverage.
[14:05] <Tonio_> we should start a QA per application thing on the wiki, including all features (basic ones to start with) that should be tested before any release
[14:05] <nixternal> I know I never did because I went with bitlbee as I didn't like GUI IM apps, though I really like Empathy in GNOME
[14:06] <Tonio_> ScottK: starting with a QA material can help creating a QA team etc...
[14:06] <Tonio_> ScottK: people in the community might want to help on that point, but how would they right now ? :)
[14:06] <ScottK> Agreed.  It's just not really my cup of tea to write that stuff.
[14:06] <nixternal> Tonio_: I wold be interested in providing some help there, and I could even speak to the QA guy at work who has desktop app QA experience and is a KDE fan, though he has recently moved to Arch without my approval :)
[14:07] <nixternal> and he is that French guy I was telling you about :p
[14:07] <Tonio_> nixternal: great ;)
[14:07] <Tonio_> nixternal: one good start would be to simply list key features for all important softwares (kmail/kontact, kopete, amarok etc...)
[14:07] <Tonio_> and write tables
[14:07] <nixternal> we have another guy who has experience but it would take a lot of work for me to convince him to get on the KDE bus
[14:08] <Tonio_> something people can print and test, one item at a time etc...
[14:08] <nixternal> right...
[14:08] <Tonio_> nixternal: I'm currently working on that subject internally at work, since we have this pb, so I can help, eventually
[14:08] <nixternal> I will get back online in the next couple of hours and jot down some things in my TODO list...I need to hurry my ass to work now
[14:08] <Tonio_> nixternal: I'd say we even should have a complete meeting about this
[14:08] <nixternal> +1
[14:09] <nixternal> bbiab
[14:09] <Tonio_> nixternal: the thing is : how to merge the testing results and analyse them.... that's not easy
[14:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: but to resume my feeling, on a single release, like intrepid, 4.1.x updates are indeed very recommended
[14:11] <ScottK> OK.  Good.
[14:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: but as long as we don't have any QA/material, releasing 4.2/3 backports is too dangerous, since people will OBVIOUSLY test, and get regressions
[14:11] <ScottK> Now that PPAs are signed, I'm less anxious to try to stuff 4.2 into backports.
[14:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: and even if that's acceptable imho, they won't accept it :)
[14:12] <Tonio_> ScottK: better no packages that bad feeling
[14:12] <Tonio_> ScottK: as for example, everyone knows that fedora is an experimental distro
[14:12] <Tonio_> ScottK: look at what happend when they released 4.0 :)
[14:12] <ScottK> Except Linux apparently.
[14:12] <ScottK> Linux/Linux
[14:12] <ScottK> argh
[14:12] <ScottK> s on end of that word.
[14:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: not only linus, lots of users criticized kde4 because distros added it without the good warnings, QA etc...
[14:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: we have to be better on that point
[14:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: and before we are better and have the material, I would prefer not backporting suck critical things like new kde releases
[14:14] <Tonio_> ScottK: especially since both kubuntu and kd4 are 6 month release schedule...
[14:14] <Tonio_> ScottK: ask our users to wait 3 month when a new kde come out to update and get it is acceptable, don't you think ?
[14:14] <ScottK> I think the PPA serves a valuable purpose as we do a good job of pushing bugs upstream and then they get fixed in the point release.
[14:15] <ScottK> I think it needs to be better explained what it is.
[14:15] <ScottK> I do think there are plenty of people who want the new KDE and they want it now.
[14:15] <ScottK> We don't want to lose those enthusiasts.
[14:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: then they have to use fedora of gentoo :)
[14:15] <Lure> ScottK: +1 on that
[14:16] <ScottK> We have always made new KDE releases available in unofficial repos.
[14:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: geeks do, not my mother
[14:16] <Lure> Tonio_: that is why they are in kubuntu-experimental PPA
[14:16] <ScottK> Tonio_: Yes, but those geeks are important.  Your mother isn't going to add the experimental PPA.
[14:16] <Lure> Tonio_: and not even in backports
[14:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: and we always had lots of complains about the stability of Kubuntu
[14:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'd like this to change, even if that means we have to get rid of things done in the past
[14:17] <jussi01> does anyone know if its possible to do triple head with nvidia on kde4? ( I remember someone in here mentioning some problems)
[14:17] <ScottK> Which is why I'm working on the point updates.
[14:17] <ScottK> Tonio_: I would support making it clearer about what the PPA is.  I would not agree to stop it.
[14:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: as I said, I've no problem on updates, I've a problem with the lack of QA
[14:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: and the lack of QA is a point at every step, including the +1 dev cycle
[14:18] <davmor2> ScottK: do you still need kub.2 testing?
[14:18] <ScottK> davmor2: We do.
[14:18] <davmor2> I'll start shortly then :)
[14:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: we have different opinions, which is perfectly fine and acceptable :)
[14:18] <ScottK> davmor2: You can see on the iso page we've gotten a good start, but help is definitely needed.
[14:18] <Tonio_> ScottK: but we seem to agree on the rationale : our QA is pure shit !
[14:18] <ScottK> Tonio_: Agreed.
[14:19] <Tonio_> hum, someone has to get that in the pipe....
[14:19] <Lure> Tonio_, ScottK: QA is sometimes hard if you do it in your community time
[14:19] <Lure> I am personally egoistic and try to fix issues that bother me in the limited time I have to hack ;-)
[14:19] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah, but that's doesn't mean we should have material
[14:20] <Tonio_> Lure: this is a hard work to build, but quite easy to maintain
[14:20] <Tonio_> Lure: when major features are added, put them in the QA pipe
[14:20] <davmor2> ScottK: I'll make a start on alt 64 as it's not had a test
[14:20] <Tonio_> Lure: the point is "how do we start ?"
[14:20] <ScottK> davmor2: Thank you.
[14:20] <ScottK> Lure: I'm not paid to work on this either.
[14:20] <rgreening> We ar a small team and have a small userbase. It's pure economics. We don't have the resources to do real justice to QA and it shows.
[14:21] <Lure> ScottK: nobody is ;-(
[14:21] <rgreening> I test what I can but it is a limited set of things I use the system for.
[14:21] <Tonio_> rgreening: I may disagree with you on that point, our userbase is sufficient for that
[14:21] <Tonio_> rgreening: we all are experts in at least one software in the distro
[14:21] <Tonio_> rgreening: I can write a "features list to test" for PNM and kmail with ease
[14:22] <Tonio_> probably not for quassel, but for that ScottK is the man etc....
[14:22] <rgreening> Tonio_: well, take into accoun that from the userbase, only a handful submit bugs regularly (if at all) and most are crap reports
[14:22] <Tonio_> rgreening: maintaining is not hard, starting from scratch is, therefore we never did
[14:22] <Tonio_> rgreening: reports concern the stable release most of the time
[14:22] <rgreening> Tonio_: we should do what wine does. List of apps and tests to pass to say it's a good release.
[14:22] <ScottK> I could write a test plan for quassel.  I have a series of things I check for each update.  I've just never written it down.
[14:22] <Tonio_> rgreening: I don't talk about bug fixing
[14:23] <Tonio_> rgreening: I'm talking about basic features we have to take care of before we do a release
[14:23] <Tonio_> rgreening: those can be listed with ease
[14:23] <rgreening> Tonio_: I'm not disagreeing :)
[14:23] <Tonio_> rgreening: for example, we ALL are using imap for our mails, who will take care about POP support ?
[14:23] <Tonio_> rgreening: nobody
[14:24] <rgreening> I use POP
[14:24] <rgreening> :)
[14:24] <Tonio_> rgreening: you suck ^_^
[14:24] <Tonio_> rgreening: seriously, you get the idea :)
[14:24] <rgreening> Only if you ask nice :P
[14:24] <rgreening> lol
[14:24] <Tonio_> rgreening: testing everything is not the point, but testing the things used in the average day usage
[14:25] <rgreening> Tonio_: I totally agree (see my wine comment above)
[14:25] <Tonio_> rgreening: hum, I'll try to think about that and start a QA process thing, a real one
[14:25] <Tonio_> rgreening: the main difference with ubuntu is the user base
[14:25] <Tonio_> rgreening: it is hudge enough so that the QA is performed naturally
[14:26] <rgreening> Pick Kmail/Kontact, Bluetooth, Konqueror, OpenOffice, as core apps and write test cases.
[14:26] <Tonio_> rgreening: we have to enforce the process to get the same quality level at the release
[14:26] <Tonio_> rgreening: and then  the user base will grow and that's it
[14:26] <rgreening> I agre.
[14:26] <rgreening> If I had test cases to zip through, it would help
[14:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: any opinion who might be helpfull to help us on the functional process at canonical ?
[14:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: rick maybe ?
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> Oh, btw. Apparently Amarok 2.0.1.1 doesn't build with libgpod 0.7, which Ubuntu just updated to
[14:27] <Tonio_> rgreening: what we have to think about is also how to filter the QA reports
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> [09:28:00] <JontheEchidna> would it be "safe" to backport the iPod code from 2.1 trunk?
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> [09:28:11] <teuf> yes it would
[14:31] <Tonio_> ScottK, nixternal, rgreening: anyway, nothing will happen if nothing starts...
[14:31] <Tonio_> here is my proposal : create a launchpad team for that, initiate a wiki page with questions and the problems doing this, and eventually have a special meeting with this subject only
[14:32] <Tonio_> and then blog about the thing and try to get some community people involved in this, I'm pretty sure we can do it
[14:33] <Tonio_> seele: thanks for the link :)
[14:33] <Tonio_> seele: also your comment about all that QA discussion ?
[14:33] <rgreening> Tonio_: I down for that :)
[14:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: functional process of what?
[14:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: QA
[14:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's very interesting.  I've never got my ipod to work with amarok anyway
[14:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: what to test, where and how to communicate about that, and more important, how to get the information back, filter it and make it a usable material
[14:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: heno is the QA man.  try davmor2 too as a top QA contributor
[14:39] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: upstream (both libgpod and amarok) are being very helpful. It should be easy enough to patch
[14:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, I'll go this way
[14:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'm sure davmor2 and others have tried doing what you're describing in the past
[14:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: and ? it didn't happen ? :)
[14:40] <davmor2> what, what?
[14:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know that's hard, but I'd like to try something, since that's, imho, our major problem
[14:40] <Riddell> Tonio_: I don't know, talk to davmor2
[14:40] <Tonio_> davmor2: can you read above ? long discussion about QA issues with kde updates, releases, and generally kubuntu
[14:41] <Tonio_> davmor2: I'd appreciate to get your experience and feeling on that point :)
[14:41] <davmor2> reading
[14:41] <Tonio_> davmor2: super
[14:42] <seele> Tonio_: i wasnt paying attention, i have to go back and ready it
[14:42] <seele> Tonio_: you mean because no one has tested it yet?
[14:42]  * seele is confused
[14:43] <Tonio_> seele: I was curious about your feeling on what could/should be done on the QA side
[14:43] <Tonio_> seele: I consider you an in telligent person, that's why :)
[14:44] <rgreening> Riddell: you know about kcm right? If I wanted to launch a kcm module with different options, it there a command line support to do this?
[14:44] <Tonio_> rgreening: kcmshell
[14:44] <rgreening> Tonio_: ty
[14:45] <Riddell> rgreening: kcontrol modules aren't generally started from the command line, I don't know if they take command line parameters even with kcmshell4
[14:45] <Tonio_> seele: I don't know anyway if you have any experience with QA :) I seem to remember you do...
[14:45] <seele> Tonio_: i test stuff and get frustrated when i need to submit bugs and i dont know how to make them useful
[14:45] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm looking at kpackagekit and want to launch the AddRm module but with preset filters and some buttons possibly disabled to give a simplified view.
[14:45] <seele> telling someone something is broken isn't very helpful if i cant help them reproduce it
[14:46] <rgreening> Riddell: otherwise, I have to re-implement the whole module
[14:46] <Tonio_> seele: hum, interesting
[14:46] <Tonio_> seele: anyway, I think there is a difference between QA and bugfixing/triaging
[14:46] <Tonio_> seele: QA is interesting to get "global" thing
[14:47] <seele> i guess so, but they also go hand in hand. why report a bug if i can't provide useful information for people to do anything about it?
[14:47] <Tonio_> seele: if 40 people complain they have the same test case broken, it's different that one broken and 39 working
[14:47] <Tonio_> seele: anyway reporting bugs for that is a bad answer... it should be quicker
[14:48] <Tonio_> seele: like a QA app online, you have a test case, you make it, and then click "worked" yes or no, and eventually had a comment describing your context...
[14:48] <seele> ah, yeah sometimes i do that
[14:48] <Riddell> rgreening: I think you need to have a config option and have two kcontrol modules one which loads the code with that option set and one which loads it unset
[14:48] <Tonio_> seele: cause feeling bugs when people are asked to test 30 items on a software is a very bad way to get the information back :)
[14:48] <Tonio_> seele: do you know of any software that would make this ?
[14:49] <seele> doesn't the iso testing site do this? or do you mean on an application basis?
[14:49] <Tonio_> seele: probably... I never test isos, since lots of people are doing this and my spare time is limited :)
[14:49] <Riddell> iso testing just checks installation
[14:49] <rgreening> Riddell: so basically re-implement...
[14:50] <Tonio_> seele: not an application basis for the test, but to get the information back
[14:50] <Riddell> rgreening: you shouldn't need to duplicate any code if that's what you're thinking
[14:50] <Tonio_> let people perform tests, select their application and start answering the items after they test
[14:51] <Tonio_> so that they don't have to go through a hudge bug reporting
[14:51] <seele> no, i dont know of software, let along open source
[14:51] <rgreening> Riddell: not sure I understand.
[14:51] <seele> there are probably proprietary systems
[14:51] <Riddell> rgreening: how do you want this to be shown to users?  system settings has two modules, one simple and one complex?
[14:51] <Tonio_> seele: hum oki.... I'll investigate...
[14:52] <rgreening> Riddell: I'll look at system settings.
[14:52] <Tonio_> seele: lack of QA is annoying me for a while now... so I think I'll try something on that side
[14:52] <rgreening> Riddell: We wanted a simple Add/Remove of just Applications to be available to users (i.e. hide libs and such)
[14:54] <Riddell> rgreening: I don't know how the code is factored now but probably it's a class which inherits a KCModule.  you want to separate the class so that it just inherits QWidget or whatever and have two classes that inherit from KCModule, one which loads it with the full interface and one with the simple interface
[14:55] <rgreening> Riddell: ok. I'll have a look. ty for suggestions
[15:00] <JontheEchidna> kde rev 910854
[15:04] <Tonio_> seele: interesting, the ubuntu iso testing tracker is pretty much exactly what I was talking about :)
[15:10]  * Riddell wonders who moved amarok back to main
[15:11] <Riddell> amarok back in the meta package
[15:11]  * ScottK says "Not me".
[15:17] <Quintasan> hmm, the plasmoid packages should be called plasma-widget-<plasmoid name>?
[15:17] <rgreening> Riddell: the current kpackagekit kcm stuff is nicely seperated out into it's own class file. So I added a new .h .cpp and changed the kcm class name. I think this will work. Test building to see if it correctly produces two kcm modules.
[15:17] <a|wen> Tonio_: the tracker is used by eg. the mozilla team as well http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/ ... so we could probably get a kubuntu-one as well
[15:17] <ScottK> Quintasan: Yes.  That's what it looks like we're going with.
[15:18] <ScottK> We are just waiting to decide for sure to get confirmation from Debian that they'll use that too.
[15:18] <Tonio_> a|wen: yeah, I was thinking about that
[15:18] <rgreening> Riddell: are we going to use rosetta translations this time around or stick with the kde ones?
[15:20] <Riddell> rgreening: we can only use the rosetta translations, all packages in main do
[15:20] <Riddell> rgreening: they say they should have an export early this week so we should have something to test soon
[15:20] <rgreening> Riddell: ok. cool. btw, did you get update-notifier-kde up?
[15:21] <Riddell> rgreening: yes
[15:21] <rgreening> ty
[15:22] <rgreening> Riddell: so kpackagekit seems to be a go right? Are you refactoring update-notifier-kde to remove the bits that kpackage kit handles?
[15:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: interested in a kubuntu.qa.ubuntu.com ? I will get the testcases written, believe me :)
[15:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: this is pretty much what I had in mind during the previous discussion
[15:22] <davmor2> Riddell: I think ScottK denied that far to quickly ;)
[15:23]  * Tonio_ bugs davmor2 for being the more helpfull man of the day !
[15:23]  * Tonio_ s/bugs/hugs/ nevermind :)
[15:23] <ScottK> davmor2: Denied which?
[15:24] <davmor2> ScottK: amarok
[15:24] <Riddell> rgreening: it's on my todo list to look at what needs changed with update-notifier-kde
[15:24] <davmor2> ScottK: If you want to listen to music that badly just install it :P
[15:26]  * ScottK isn't running Jaunty currently, so that wouldn't be my motivation.
[15:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: do we keep update-notifier-kde ?
[15:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: what does it do kpackagekit doesn't ?
[15:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: appart from distro update :)
[15:28] <Tonio_> rgreening: one annoying thing with kpackagekit : when update set to manual, the icon blinks a message 'want to update blabla" and then disappears after 10 seconds
[15:28] <Tonio_> rgreening: I think it should stay in the systray unless one choose "no"
[15:28] <Tonio_> rgreening: don't you think ?
[15:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: distro update, apport notifier, reboot notifier and upgrade hooks
[15:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki :)
[15:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: so don't you think the kpackagekit icon should stay arround unless "no" is choosen ? that's something I noticed yesterday...
[15:30] <rgreening> Tonio_: I agree
[15:31] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes
[15:31] <Tonio_> rgreening: can you add this to your todo ? :)
[15:31] <Tonio_> rgreening: I'll have a look if you don't have time, shouldn't be hard to patch
[15:33] <rgreening> I'll add it. see what I can come up with. If you can point me in the right dirction, it would save some time (if you know)
[15:36] <Tonio_> rgreening: take care at doing this for the manual update case only :)
[15:36] <Tonio_> rgreening: the icon should go away in the case of automatic update, for example, so if that's the same test, it should be splitted I guess :)
[15:37] <rgreening> k
[15:41] <Riddell> rgreening: seen today's planet?  using KDE 4.2 and Qt 4.5 together seems to be causing debate
[15:44] <rgreening> Riddell: yeah. I think the plasma devs need to get in gear and make 4.2 ok with Qt 4.5. It "some" plasmoids that have issues, which are already fixed in kde 4.3 trunk. Backporting fixes from plasma trunk should resolve any issues (if someone wishes to do so).
[15:44] <rgreening> Personally, it's running fine here. though I have not used all plasmoids
[15:45] <rgreening> If we knew where they "hacked" to make it work for Qt 4.4 that would help
[15:45] <rgreening> who knows how to write cmake files?
[15:46] <Riddell> rgreening: ask and someone may know :)
[15:47] <rgreening> Riddell, Tonio_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/116108/
[15:47] <rgreening> That's to original
[15:48] <rgreening> here's my mod: http://paste.ubuntu.com/116109/
[15:48] <rgreening> I obviously do not know what I am doing
[15:48] <rgreening> :P
[15:49] <rgreening> I was trying to add KcmKpkAddSimple to the cmake (my cloned KCModule)
[15:49] <rgreening> Riddell: ^
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> I am thinking we should just go the install-package route
[15:49] <rgreening> I'm not sure if I just messed up the target/install lines or more
[15:49] <Riddell> rgreening: you also added KcmKpkAddRmSimple.cpp to the non simple target
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> in regards to the flash patch for konq
[15:49] <rgreening> oh. doh
[15:50] <rgreening> copy/paste fubar
[15:50] <rgreening> Riddell: anything else wrong that you can see?
[15:50] <Riddell> rgreening: nope
[15:50] <rgreening> Riddell: ok. Then I do somewhat know what I am doing in cmake. lol
[15:52] <rgreening> ty
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: the dialog flash patch downloads the tar.gz straight from adobe, so we don't get the advantages of a packaging system (updates, etc) nor the integration that the Ubuntu packages can have
[15:52] <davmor2> Riddell, ScottK: hardy.2 desktop effects chooser is a bit screwy.  If you select Custom Effects and then try changing to anything else you can't
[15:53] <ScottK> davmor2: Can you tell iif  this is a regression or not?
[15:53] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: that's actually ok, IMO as it is then per user.
[15:53] <Riddell> davmor2: nothing should have changed in that
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: that and it wants to install flash 9 :P
[15:53] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: and only ever installed local and can be removed and doesn't require admin rights.
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: have a readme to tell how to feed it links?
[15:54] <rgreening> ?
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: true dat
[15:54] <rgreening> :)
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: how do I make the config for the patch?
[15:54] <davmor2> ScottK: I can't remember that far back :)  I'll track down a copy of kubuntu hardy and check it latter moving on now
[15:54] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: what do you mean?
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> it currently wants to install flash 9 and can't find the license
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> you said we needed to put some links or somesuch into a file that is installed by default
[15:54] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: oh, is that due to kubuntu-default-settings
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> links to download locations
[15:55] <rgreening> ya
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> got docs?
[15:55] <rgreening> it's a file included in k-d-s
[15:55] <rgreening> 1 sec...
[15:56] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/apps/konqueror/konq_plugins.xml
[15:56] <rgreening> thats the file we need ot add plugins into
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> thx
[15:56] <rgreening> so it needs to be updated for flash 10
[15:57] <rgreening> Riddell: ty. that worked and has built fine.
[15:58] <rgreening> Riddell: now I just need to actually make my changes in the Simple class and kpackagkit to accept these parameters.
[16:02]  * Riddell hugs rgreening 
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> I can't get the license to show up in the dialog :(
[16:02] <nixternal> Tonio_ and Riddell: even if people tried it in the past and it didn't work, we shouldn't give up on it.  there have been a lot of things started in the past that never took off...reason being as they never had a solid driver...welcome to the open source community...part of the reason I gave up on open source in 2000 is because a) developers can't market and marketing then sucked, and b) because people never followed through...b is a tou
[16:03] <nixternal> and on that note, I shall get ready to kick off today's build for QA here at work :)
[16:03] <Tonio_> nixternal: I agree
[16:03] <a|wen> davmor2: when you find the "original" hardy cd i might have another issue (oem-install), i want you to test if it is a regression or not (unless ScottK got about doing it?)
[16:04] <rgreening> Riddell: hehe :P
[16:08] <davmor2> ScottK: meh I can only find hardy.1 that'll do though right?
[16:09] <a|wen> davmor2: comparing with hardy.1 should be fine
[16:10] <davmor2> a|wen: what do you need testing?
[16:11] <a|wen> davmor2: on a desktop cd do an oem-install (english) ... when you get past the oem-prepare state, to the oem-config try choosing english as language; does that work, or will it just stand and wait
[16:12] <davmor2> I'll have a look as soon as it has dl'd
[16:13] <a|wen> davmor2: thx
[16:16] <a|wen> davmor2: if you choose another language than english in oem-config, it should work (worked for me using german), but there is a lot of waiting through the oem-config ... and though the system-language is correct, it seems that the first user (at least kde apps) is still in english
[16:25] <a|wen> davmor2: if you could test out both parts, it would be perfect
[16:25] <davmor2> :) 93% dl'd
[16:29] <a|wen> :)
[16:45] <davmor2> a|wen: installing now
[16:45] <a|wen> davmor2: perfect
[16:50] <Quintasan> hmm the Wubi installer doesn't work under Win 7
[16:51] <davmor2> Quintasan: wubi installer in which version?
[16:51] <Quintasan> davmor2: 8.04.2 amd64
[16:51] <davmor2> No it won't do.  win7 support maybe available for jaunty
[16:52] <Quintasan> Ok
[16:52] <davmor2> win7 is still under development they need it released really to know how to integrate with it
[17:03] <rgreening> Riddell: we can probably get rid of gdebi-kde as kpackagekit appears to have a command line install package option. It would need to be tested and integrated.
[17:04] <Riddell> rgreening: which installs .debs?
[17:04] <rgreening> yep
[17:05] <rgreening> Riddell: I think a policykit piece need to be corrected for it to work (I get auth fail trying it). Tonio_, perhaps you could look into it with the kpackagekit devs
[17:06] <rgreening> Riddell: however, once that's corrected, we have a command line installer. I wonder if it could replace install-package as well?
[17:06] <Tonio_> rgreening: one second, lemme look at policykit rules by default
[17:06] <rgreening> It would be nioce to have one package provide it all. less to support.
[17:07] <Tonio_> rgreening: have you checked policykit permissions to install local files ?
[17:07] <rgreening> Tonio_: I know 0 about policykit inner workings... :(
[17:07] <Tonio_> rgreening: look in systemsettings, advanced, you have a policykit thing in there
[17:08] <Tonio_> go in org.freedesktop
[17:08] <Tonio_> you have packagekit permissions
[17:08] <Tonio_> and then you can set permissions to install local files
[17:09] <Tonio_> install untrusted local file for example
[17:09] <rgreening> Tonio_: I do not see this in my systemsettings
[17:09] <Tonio_> rgreening: just force granted for your user for tests and let me know what about :)
[17:09] <Tonio_> rgreening:  ?
[17:10] <Tonio_> rgreening: systemsettings > advanced > system > policykit authorization
[17:10] <Tonio_> rgreening: don't you see this ?
[17:10] <Tonio_> rgreening: if you don't then you don't have policykit-kde which is a problem :)
[17:10] <rgreening> hmm..  1 sec
[17:10] <Tonio_> rgreening: you should have it install, since kpackagekit depends on it
[17:11] <davmor2> a|wen: Worked fine here on hardy.1
[17:12] <a|wen> davmor2: okay ... are you up for trying using hardy.2 also, just to be sure, that it is the same conditions?
[17:13] <davmor2> a|wen: yes after still running alt tests
[17:14] <a|wen> davmor2: thx a lot
[17:14]  * a|wen is doing alt tests as well (on i386 though)
[17:14] <davmor2> amd 64
[17:15] <rgreening> Tonio_: nope. I have that package installed but no kcmodule showing up for policykit under system
[17:16] <rgreening> Riddell: can you see if you have one in your systemsettings under advanced/system?
[17:16] <Tonio_> rgreening: do you have both /usr/lib/kde4/kcm_pkk_authorization.so and /usr/share/kde4/services/kcm_pkk_authorization.desktop files ?
[17:16] <rgreening> Tonio_: checking
[17:16] <Tonio_> with those, you should get the kcm module in systemsettings..... otherwise, it doesn't make sense :)
[17:16] <a|wen> davmor2: btw, did you test using hardy.1 64-bit or 32-bit?
[17:16] <rgreening> nope Tonio_
[17:16] <rgreening> neither
[17:17] <Tonio_> rgreening: purge and reinstall the package :)
[17:17] <davmor2> a|wen: 64bit
[17:17] <rgreening> Tonio_: : http://paste.ubuntu.com/116137/
[17:18] <davmor2> a|wen: why were you 32bit?
[17:18] <Tonio_> rgreening: what's your package version ?
[17:18] <Tonio_> rgreening: don't tell me you are on intrepid :)
[17:18] <rgreening> Tonio_: no. Jaunty.
[17:18] <a|wen> davmor2: yeah, i were on 32 bit, so could potentially be a 32 vs. 64 bit problem as well ... in any case, if you test using hardy.2 as well, it will give us more info
[17:19] <Tonio_> rgreening: that looks very much like the policykit-kde available 3 montn ago :)
[17:19] <rgreening> Tonio_: it was a bad policykit-kde package
[17:19] <Tonio_> rgreening: think so :) you should look into the one in the archives ;)
[17:20] <Tonio_> rgreening: that would probably fix your auth issue btw, without any further config, since the defaults are to just ask user password
[17:20] <rgreening> Tonio_: will try again
[17:20] <Tonio_> rgreening: you may have to reboot or at least restart dbus for that to work also....
[17:20] <Tonio_> restarting kded is required anyway
[17:20] <rgreening> ok
[17:21] <rgreening> will reboot
[17:21] <Tonio_> rgreening: sorry for this :)
[17:21] <davmor2> ScottK: hardy.1 is the same.  If you select anything but but custom you can change it if you hit on custom you can't
[17:22] <rgreening> Tonio_: np
[17:23] <davmor2> ScottK: just thought custom requires another app which isn't installed do you think that would cause the lock?
[17:32] <rgreening> Riddell: kpackagekit works as a replacement for gdebi-kde (after updating policykit-kde package as per Tonio_'s suggestion.
[17:33] <rgreening> Riddell: we would just need the file associations put in place to reflect this. Someone else should test it though, to make sure it works for them.
[17:34] <Riddell> interesting
[17:36] <a|wen> davmor2: IIRC custom means that you want to control it with the compiz-settings package (or what is it called), and that isn't installed by default
[17:36] <davmor2> ccsm
[17:37] <rgreening> Riddell: it correctly resolves dependencies as well from commandline installs as well (so it can probably replace install-package) :)
[17:38] <Tonio_> rgreening: I can provide a desktop file for file associations, no problem
[17:38] <Riddell> install-package may well become the packagekit backend
[17:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: lemme know your feeling on that point :)
[17:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: what point?
[17:38] <rgreening> Riddell: really? oh, cause it has a functioning one
[17:38] <Tonio_> associate .deb with kpackagekit
[17:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: fine with me
[17:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki, doing this :)
[17:39] <Riddell> rgreening: it doesn't do conf files and debconf so they're looking at writing a custom backend that uses synaptic (which in our case would have to be install-package)
[17:39] <rgreening> :) and then we can demote gdebi-kde (punt from cd)
[17:39] <rgreening> Riddell: ah. I see
[17:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, they are going to do this ? I hope it'll be possible to switch the backend then :)
[17:40] <Riddell> rgreening: but jaunty install-package can probably be replaced by kpackagekit indeed
[17:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: cause the easy way to make it silent is, for me, in corp environement, a pure feature :)
[17:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: making adept/synaptic completly silent wasn't an easy job
[17:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: otherwise, as long as it is easy to switch the backend, I'm fine with it :)
[17:44] <rgreening> Tonio_: I'd like ot make the kdesu for Edit Sources in kpackagekit disappear. Any suggestion on who to ping for help on using policykit bits for that?
[17:45] <a|wen> g'night everyone
[17:45] <Tonio_> rgreening: I don't think you need too :)
[17:46] <Tonio_> rgreening: ho wait... well maybe pinging on the packagekit side would be better
[17:47] <rgreening> seele: I have the basic KCModule seperation done, and now just need to design the ui and code for the simple view. Any suggestions on the "text" I should use? The current uses Add or Remove Software. Should that change? What should the new simplified Applications only view say?
[17:47] <Tonio_> rgreening: you already have a org.freedesktop.packagekit.systemsources-configure
[17:47] <Tonio_> rgreening: if you address this in the auth process, it should work
[17:47] <rgreening> Tonio_: yes, so I expect it should be easy enough...
[17:47] <rgreening> I just need some assistance
[17:47] <Tonio_> rgreening: kpackagekit authenticates a lots in its sources :)
[17:47] <Riddell> rgreening: careful, the Ubuntu Desktop team have been discussing that one label for the last four weeks without resolution
[17:48] <rgreening> Riddell: that's why I want seele to make the suggestion, so she can push it up
[17:48] <rgreening> :)
[17:48] <rgreening> we all want the seal of approval :)
[17:48] <rgreening> pun intended
[17:48] <jussi01> rofl
[17:49] <rgreening> ;)
[17:49] <jussi01> rgreening: does this mean you have a nice intrpid package of kpackagekit for me?
[17:49] <rgreening> jussi01: see, my bad humor
[17:49] <Tonio_> rgreening: you might be able to check how is the auth process handled in kpackagekit and simply copy/paste with the good entry I suspect....
[17:49] <rgreening> jussi01: I don't. Don't know if Tonio_ has or plans ot backport?
[17:50] <rgreening> Tonio_: I'll investigate after I get the Simplified Add/Remove done.
[17:50] <rgreening> Tonio_: ty
[17:50] <Tonio_> jussi01: I won't backport.... jaunty is out in 3 month, that's fine :)
[17:50] <jussi01> Tonio_: ^^ ?
[17:50] <Tonio_> rgreening: probably kpackagekit upstream can help on that point
[17:50] <rgreening> :P
[17:50] <ScottK> davmor2: Thanks for looking into it.  I think that since this is not an LTS, we ought not worry about more than 'is a regression' or 'is not a regression'.  It sounds to me like neither of these issues are regressions.
[17:51] <Tonio_> jussi01: I never backport anything, except for showstopper bugs :)
[17:51] <jussi01> Tonio_: !!!!
[17:51] <rgreening> Tonio_: maybe. Is kpackagekit a KDE/Kubuntu/ or other?
[17:51] <ScottK> That and of course we should document htam.
[17:51] <jussi01> :(
[17:51] <Tonio_> jussi01: I know adept is not perfect, but I won't consider it a showstopper bug hehe
[17:51] <Tonio_> rgreening: KDE :)
[17:51] <davmor2> ScottK: i'm just running a 64 bit hardy.2 desktop oem to check
[17:52] <Tonio_> jussi01: I'm serious, backporting for backporting is for me a waste of time, since I'd have to backport packagekit, kpackagekit, policykit, policykit-kde
[17:52] <Tonio_> make tests etc.....
[17:52] <ScottK> Personally I consider the lack of proper handling for unsigned packages in both adept and kpackagekit to be showstoppers.
[17:52] <Tonio_> for a group of 10 geeks, and when this is already done in jaunty :)
[17:52] <Tonio_> jussi01: sorry but I won't do it :)
[17:52] <jussi01> Tonio_: you are forcing me to upgrade to jaunty? :/
[17:52] <ScottK> But they suck equally in that regard, so it doesn't really matter.
[17:52] <rgreening> Tonio_: was software-properties-kde pushed to KDE?
[17:52]  * jussi01 huggles Tonio_ :)
[17:52] <Tonio_> jussi01: or wait for the next stable :)
[17:53] <Tonio_> should I backport for hardy then too ? :)
[17:53] <jussi01> Tonio_: sorry, Im messing with you now - I do understand.
[17:53] <ScottK> davmor2: OK.  Appreciate all your efforts on this.
[17:53] <Tonio_> jussi01: I know that's rude, but that's the way I always worked, I refuse to backport new features to the stable version :)
[17:53] <Tonio_> jussi01: bugs are different purpose, and we had a long discussion with ScottK already :)
[17:54] <Tonio_> jussi01: but I'd help if you switch to jaunty, with pleasure, haha :)
[17:55] <ScottK> Riddell: I just tried to convince koffice to rebuild for libpoppler 3 -> 4 transition.  It failed due to lack of arts.  I added --without-arts.  It still fails.
[17:55] <rgreening> Tonio_: My patch to add software-properties-kde, was that pushed into KDE repo or somewhere else?
[17:55] <Tonio_> rgreening: I was told someone would upload.... I don't remember who...
[17:55] <ScottK> Riddell: $DOXDATA is '/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common' which does not name a directory
[17:55] <Tonio_> rgreening: wasn't it nixternal ?
[17:55] <ScottK> So I kind of give up unless you have suggestions.
[17:55] <rgreening> Tonio_: I thought you uploaded to bzr or something?
[17:56] <Tonio_> rgreening: I propose to upload and I was told it was in the process... I asked 3 times if bzr upload was done, and no response came out :)
[17:56] <Tonio_> rgreening: lemme look
[17:56] <jussi01> Tonio_: the switch to jaunty will happen just as soon as I get my 10/10 internet and off this darned 3g...
[17:56] <Tonio_> jussi01: :)
[17:57] <rgreening> Tonio_: I though JontheEchidna did the package diff upload and you had done the bzr
[17:57] <Tonio_> rgreening: by chance I still have the package I prepared for this..... happy guy :)
[17:57] <Tonio_> rgreening: right that was JontheEchidna
[17:57] <rgreening> :)
[17:57] <rgreening> Tonio_: my only concern was to not lose the patch/change
[17:57] <Tonio_> sure
[17:57] <rgreening> ;)
[17:58] <Tonio_> rgreening: bzr is not up to date.... fixing this
[17:58] <rgreening> Tonio_: ty
[17:59] <Tonio_> rgreening: revision 9 online
[17:59] <rgreening> k
[18:00] <Tonio_> rgreening: bzr branch lp:~packagekit/packagekit/kpackagekit-jaunty
[18:00] <Tonio_> rgreening: would you need write access to this ?
[18:00] <Tonio_> rgreening: I think would be helpfull :)
[18:00] <rgreening> Tonio_: sure
[18:00] <rgreening> add me in
[18:02] <Tonio_> rgreening: you need to subscribe to the PackageKit-Team ;)
[18:02] <Tonio_> rgreening: I'm a member but not owner of the team, I can't add you that way
[18:03] <Tonio_> rgreening: https://edge.launchpad.net/~packagekit
[18:05] <davmor2> ScottK, a|wen: oem install works fine on .2 too
[18:05] <davmor2> might be a hw/vm issue for a|wen
[18:06] <ScottK> Interesting.  It sounds like we're still on the good path then.
[18:06] <rgreening> Tonio_: will amm me
[18:07] <rgreening> s/amm/add/
[18:08] <rgreening> Tonio_: request sent
[18:08] <Tonio_> rgreening: let me know when you are about to commit, cause I'll had a couple of changes for .deb file association too :)
[18:08] <rgreening> Tonio_: ok.
[18:11] <Tonio_> rgreening: stupid question but how do you install a deb file with kpackagekit, manually ?
[18:11] <rgreening> kpackagekit <deb>
[18:11] <rgreening> no options required Tonio_
[18:12] <Tonio_> great :)
[18:12] <Tonio_> I just have to patch the existing desktop file for the mimetype then...
[18:12] <Tonio_> rgreening: doing that now so think about updating bzr :)
[18:14] <Tonio_> rgreening: hum..... it's there already..... MimeType=application/x-rpm;application/x-deb;
[18:14] <Tonio_> rgreening: what needs patching then ?
[18:15] <ScottK> So what happens if you feed kpackagekit an RPM on a Debian system?
[18:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: would be interesting I guess :)
[18:15] <rgreening> Tonio_: let me check something...
[18:15] <rgreening> ScottK: you's need the backend
[18:15] <ScottK> I think we should either know it does something useful or not have the mime type association.
[18:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: I agree, we have to patch this
[18:16] <rgreening> Tonio_: gdebi-kde currently has the priority for the mimetype.
[18:16] <Tonio_> rgreening: about the association with kpackagekit, I pretty much don't like to force associations with profilerc file
[18:17] <Tonio_> rgreening: looking...
[18:17] <ScottK> rgreening: We can remove that can't we?  I thought Riddell said somethign about that.
[18:18] <rgreening> Tonio_: If I move kpackagekit up in the mimetype list, it works perfectly. So, when we remove gdebi-kde all will be fine.
[18:18] <davmor2> ScottK: Kub alt 64 completed looks okay enduser image is a bit weird on nvidia gfx but that is an old, old bug
[18:19] <Tonio_> rgreening: that's my point :) forcing order via profilerc is dirty :)
[18:19] <rgreening> gdebi-kde can't be removed without removing install-package (currently) and that is a problem.
[18:19] <ScottK> davmor2: Great.  I suspect we'll have more than a few of those.
[18:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: should we drop gdebi from kubuntu-meta ?
[18:19] <davmor2> I'll pick up the stragglers tomorrow
[18:19] <davmor2> bye
[18:19] <rgreening> yes, but we need ot resolve the install-package dep
[18:20] <rgreening> Is there a way to make Kpackagekit have a higher priority for mimetype if it's installed so that gdebi is lower in the list (without using profilerc)?
[18:20] <rgreening> Tonio_, Riddell ^
[18:21] <Tonio_> rgreening: hum maybe in the desktop file, lemme check.....
[18:21] <Tonio_> rgreening: I think it is possible within the mimetypes entry in the desktop file....
[18:25] <Riddell> rgreening: set InitialPreference= higher
[18:25] <Riddell> Tonio_: only if nothing uses it
[18:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks ;)
[18:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: anyway, gdebi is already forced within profilerc, so I guess I can simply change in that file....
[18:26] <Riddell> ScottK: hum, I'm unsure if we should keep koffice 1 or not
[18:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: language-selector-qt uses install-package right now indeed
[18:26] <Tonio_> rgreening: I'll go the profilerc way, nevermind, it's already in there :)
[18:27] <ScottK> Riddell: Currently it's blocking NBS of libpoppler3 and kdelibs-doc, doesn't build in it's current state, and I've no idea if it actually works.
[18:27] <ScottK> nixternal: Did you get a chance to spend some time with Koffice2?  It was you that volunteered to look at it, right?
[18:29] <Tonio_> rgreening: hum that changed... now you have to override the mimetype in .local....
[18:29] <Tonio_> rgreening: we have to go with initialpreference then
[18:33] <seele> rgreening: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KPackageKitReview
[18:33] <seele> rgreening: Youre aware of that info right? if not, there it is :)
[18:36] <Tonio_> rgreening: revision 10 uploaded, fixed initialpreference to 9
[18:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: what exactly is the problem with koffice please ?
[18:38] <ScottK> Tonio_: 1.  Needs a rebuild for libpoppler 3 -> 4 transition.
[18:38] <ScottK> First FTBFS due to lack of arts.
[18:38] <ScottK> DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --without-arts fixes that.
[18:39] <Tonio_> ScottK: talking about koffice 1 right ?
[18:39] <ScottK> Yes
[18:39] <Tonio_> k
[18:40] <ScottK> Then it still ftbfs with this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/116148/
[18:40] <Tonio_> hum afai'm concerned.... koffice 2 is slow, kword unusable, but krita is nice :)
[18:40] <ScottK> Tonio_: So we also need to remove the build-dep on kdelibs-doc.
[18:41] <ScottK> Tonio_: I hit the point of it's more trouble than the amount I care so ....
[18:41] <ScottK> But I've still got the chroot where it failed if you want me to check anything.
[18:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: koffice is poorly used anyway, so I'd say going with koffice2 is probably acceptable in our case...
[18:42] <ScottK> Tonio_: If you're a regular user of it and feel that, then I think it's a good argument for it.
[18:43]  * ScottK looks at Riddell to make a decision.
[18:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: except for kword :)
[18:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: but kword never made it for me, and never worked correctly
[18:43] <Xand3r> hey ho,  is KOffice beta6 now in the repo?
[18:43]  * ScottK uses OOo due to the need for MS Office file format compatibility.
[18:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: but of course, krita won't be as stable as the kde3 one.... as won't be k3b, maybe not amarok too...
[18:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: but those are things we have to do thinking on the long term :)
[18:44] <ScottK> amarok is at least released ....
[18:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: and has bugs the kde3 version never had, but that's fine :)
[18:44] <Riddell> I'd prefer to keep koffice 1 in if someone can be bothered to fix it so it compiles
[18:44] <Tonio_> Xand3r: yes it is
[18:45] <Riddell> bug quite possibly nobody can
[18:45] <Xand3r> Tonio_: kk thx
[18:45] <Riddell> I used kword 1 only yesterday for a task no other application could do
[18:45] <Xand3r> Tonio_:  do you no the date when it cames in?
[18:45] <Tonio_> Xand3r: I uploaded the package on friday I think....
[18:46] <Xand3r> Tonio_: oh damn , thx
[18:46] <Tonio_> Xand3r: you're welcome :)
[18:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: hard to decide.... I know that feeling :)
[18:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: anyway I'm ready for packages transition and langpacks packaging when you confirm I can go :)
[18:47] <ScottK> Let's try it this way ...
[18:48] <ScottK> Who likes Koffice 1 enough they're willing to fix it so it builds?
[18:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know nobody that uses koffice on a daily bases... except from krita
[18:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: I can't help to find someone to fix :)
[19:08] <Riddell> hi Arby
[19:08] <Arby> hi Riddell
[19:09] <Riddell> Arby: seems s-c-p-k needs python-kde4-dev and python-dev installed now to get the kcontrol module stuff working, just incase you get stuck with weird errors like I did
[19:10] <Arby> Riddell: OK thanks for that.
[19:10] <Arby> I haven't looked at it for a few days but I should really get back on it
[19:10] <Arby> we have what, about 10 days to feature freeze?
[19:11] <Riddell> Arby: well we're doing well for features, I'm working on the Job Options page and I think that's the last major feature
[19:12] <Riddell> bugs of course are a different issue
[19:12] <Arby> yeah it's still pretty buggy
[19:12] <seele> string freeze isnt until march, correct?
[19:12] <Arby> I think I got rid of most of the crashes
[19:12] <Riddell> Arby: I'm using the ~kubuntu-members/system-config-printer/kcm-scpk branch, I think we can get rid of the other branches
[19:12] <Arby> Riddell: sounds reasonable to me
[19:13] <ScottK> Riddell: Did you see the feature status wikipage that a|wen did?
[19:13] <ScottK> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecsStatus
[19:13] <Riddell> ScottK: no, I will when I get a moment
[19:14] <Arby> Riddell: wow, you've been busy. Just had a look at the recent branch history :)
[19:15]  * Arby updates his branch
[19:17] <Lure> ScottK: somebody moved it to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[19:17] <ScottK> Oh.
[19:17] <Lure> ScottK: and no redirect :-(
[19:18] <Lure> ScottK: I noticed it only as I get all *Kubuntu* notifications via e-mail
[19:18] <ScottK> Handy.
[19:18] <ScottK> Any chance you could put in a redirect?
[19:18]  * ScottK has no idea how one does that.
[19:18] <Lure> ScottK: will check in help
[19:22] <Lure> ScottK: it is "#REDIRECT NewPageName"
[19:22] <Lure> done
[19:22] <ScottK> Great.
[19:42] <nixternal> ScottK: ya, KOffice2 is years away from being considered a replacement
[19:43] <ScottK> nixternal: Please fix KOffice1 to build then.
[19:53] <ScottK> Anyone with Windows?  We are mainly lacking Wubi install tests for 8.04.2.
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> my windows hdd is full
[20:03] <ScottK> nixternal: ?  ^^
[20:14] <nixternal> ScottK: KOffice2 is fine as an alternate - do not go with KOffice1
[20:14] <nixternal> nixternal->backTo(work);
[20:15] <ScottK> nixternal: How about some 8.04.2 installs in Windows using Wubi after work?
[20:15] <nixternal> how about no
[20:15] <nixternal> don't have winblows around anymore
[20:16] <nixternal> i beat cod4 in every way possible, so I no longer needed windows
[20:16] <ScottK> OK.
[20:17] <ScottK> Anyone else?
[20:51] <rgreening> Tonio_: kpk doesn't allow me to change whether to install Security Updates automatically.
[20:52] <Tonio_> rgreening: look at your permissions within policykit
[20:55] <rgreening> I should have default settings and lokng I don't see any issues. I hit the apply button and close that app. when I reopen, it says it's going to still auto install security updates, but I explicitly said no.
[20:57] <rgreening> not only that, the apply button doesn't grey out after I hit it. This means the settings are not updating and it still thinks the old setting is in play and not the current one I just tried to apply.
[20:57] <rgreening> Tonio_: ^
[21:02] <Tonio_> rgreening: that's weird...
[21:04] <rgreening> Tonio_: ya
[21:04] <rgreening> Tonio_: can you test?
[21:59] <Xand3r> Tonio_: i asked you if koffice-kde4 is in the repo
[21:59] <Xand3r> ist it in the repo of intrepid?
[22:25] <Tonio_> Xand3r: no jaunty only...
[22:29] <Xand3r> Tonio_: gnaaa i tought for both
[22:29] <Tonio_> :)
[22:29] <Xand3r> Tonio_: will it be backported?
[22:29] <Tonio_> Xand3r: not by me, anyway
[22:30] <Tonio_> Xand3r: but it should be easy to backport, simple rebuilt.... you can do it pretty easilly
[22:30] <Xand3r> Tonio_: i want to know if it will be backportet from someone in future for the backports
[22:31] <Xand3r> for the official repo
[22:31] <Tonio_> Xand3r: no chance, my friend :)
[22:31] <Xand3r> what?
[22:32] <Tonio_> Xand3r: neither updates, nor backports.... eventually a ppa...
[22:32] <Tonio_> Xand3r: backporting a beta app for another beta app... that's pretty useless, really
[22:32] <Tonio_> Xand3r: it's not like backporting kde4.2
[22:32] <Xand3r> Tonio_: kk
[22:32] <Tonio_> when it's stable, eventually, we'll handle backports
[22:34] <Tonio_> Xand3r: nevermind, it's not really usable at it's current stable for a daily usage
[22:38] <Xand3r> Tonio_: will it come in the " Unsupported Updates"
[22:38] <Xand3r> sorry for asking so much
[22:38] <ScottK> Xand3r: That's backports.
[22:38]  * ScottK notes that the naming of the different repos in Adept is really confusing for people.
[22:39] <Xand3r> ScottK: yes
[23:04] <ScottK> Riddell: I just added skanlite to the dvd seed (since ubuntu-mir approved it).  I think it's worth considering for the CD if there's room later.
[23:14] <Riddell> ScottK: groovy
[23:18] <jussi01> ScottK: great to see that get on :)