/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/02/09/#ubuntu-devel.txt

slangasek(other than a question of the distribution of developer time)00:00
superm1slangasek, there have been a number of failures (not reported to the tracker though)00:04
superm1slangasek, i'm attempting to see how difficult fixing some of them are.  if it's not doable today, then we'll be skipping A400:04
slangaseksuperm1: ok00:04
Adri2000slangasek: ok. then the sooner it's in debian unstable and synced to jaunty the better. when do you think it could be uploaded to debian?00:05
slangasekAdri2000: I don't know, not having looked at it at all yet.  Maybe within the week if left up to me; I can't speak for any of the comaintainers00:06
Adri2000ok00:07
calcis there a way to pad a number in shell, eg seq 000 150 and have the numbers show as 001, etc ?00:17
directhexyes00:18
directhex-w00:18
calcthx!00:18
directhexjms@destiny:~$ seq -w 99 10000:18
directhex09900:18
directhex10000:18
directhexand so to bed00:19
freazerHi, I need some help with mdadm and update-initramfs, can anybody point me to a channel [on another server if necessary] that can help? my dpkg is completely crippled because it thinks a raid device is missing01:59
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
d-bhi i'm not 100% sure of the current status of reporting bugs in launchpad. but last time my friend had an issue he had to login to launchpad to report it (8.10), is this the case and if so would it not be possible to send bugs for users without a launchpad id to another place, like a mailing list ?04:35
LaserJockd-b: I think the ubuntu-users list has been used for that in the past. I'm not sure though if that's the current recommended process04:39
d-bLaserJock: ok. but can a user report bugs there atm via the gui bug reporting interface ?04:40
LaserJockd-b: I don't think so04:41
d-bLaserJock: do i add this as a wishlist item ?04:41
d-band if so where should i best do this04:41
LaserJockI'm not sure04:41
LaserJockI think generally we discourage people from using the mailing list04:42
LaserJockit should be more of a last resort I'd think04:42
d-bstill where should i propose this ?04:42
lifelessyou should start with a discussion, perhaps on the forums, or the ubuntu development mailing lists04:43
lifelesseither MOTU or -devel, probably -devel though the topic lines are a bit grey04:44
LaserJock-devel would be the most general04:44
lifeless*if* you get a consensus forming filing a bug on launchpad is appropriate, but honestly, I don't think this is percieved as a problem by the community.04:44
lifelessIts pretty nice not having spam come in as new bug reports on packages, and knowing you can contact the users that filed reports.04:44
d-blifeless: right but there is a group of users who do have a launchpad account and might not want to sign up for one.04:45
d-bits just the extra effort that they might not want to go to after gnumeric  or oo.o crashes with their work...04:45
LaserJockd-b: sure, but generally those bugs aren't going to be very useful04:46
johanbrI don't thin kthere is a problem with a dearth of bug reports.04:46
lifelessd-b: you are asserting that this group is sufficiently large to generate unique bug reports, and that they will go to the effort of filing the report and working with devs to get it fixed04:46
lifelessd-b: this is an unsubstantiated claim; the barrier to entry to get an lp account is nearly zero (have an email address, receive one email at it, click on a link).04:47
d-blifeless: i do not. i assume that if the bug is not already reported and enough information is able to be reported then it might be worth receiving a bug report.04:47
d-bsure if it is not going to contain info then .. its pointless.04:47
lifelessd-b: arguing that this barrier is higher than the barrier to file and work through a bug report in the first place is pretty doubtful as an assertion04:47
d-blifeless: right. but ok so lets consider the alternative platform... i dont' need a microsoft account to file a bug when that crashes.04:48
Hobbseeand does anything happen to those bug reports, most of the time?04:48
d-bi'm suggesting these bugs could be used differently.04:48
lifelessd-b: actually, last time I filed a bug with MS I needed a credit card with AUD 280 on it04:48
d-bHobbsee: nothing ^^04:48
Hobbsee(the MS bug reports, i meant)04:49
d-bHobbsee: i have no idea. all i know is the software doesn't get much better.04:49
ScottKd-b: Mailing lists make very poor bug trackers.04:49
lifelessredhat uses bugzilla, same as lp vis-a-vis accounts04:49
lifelessnovell, same04:50
lifelessgentoo I haven't filed bugs on04:50
lifelessgnome use bugzilla, needs an account too04:50
ScottKSame with KDE.04:50
lifelessall of sourceforge need accounts04:50
lifelesssavannah needs accounts04:50
LaserJocklifeless: sourceforge doesn't need an account to file04:50
d-bScottK: it was just a suggestion... i agree that the use of an account is useful but perhaps if you submit a bug report and then they click on a validation email it could work better / if the gui allowed the user to sign up quickly for launchpad ?04:50
lifelessLaserJock: it doesn't?04:50
LaserJocklifeless: no, you can file as "anonymous"04:51
d-blike i'm just trying to suggest making it easier for new users to submit bugs...04:51
lifelessLaserJock: oh, eep, my bad04:51
ScottKd-b: Also, in comparison to every attempt at a bug report I ever made to Microsoft got zero repsonse.  Here stuff actually gets fixed sometimes.04:51
LaserJockScottK: sometimes ;-)04:51
d-bScottK: totally agree.04:51
LaserJockd-b: if we were lacking bug reports I can understand wanting to make it easier04:51
lifelessd-b: I've said my bit; talk to the larger community, get consensus. I think you'll get a resounding 'not a big issue'. We have lots of bugs04:52
ScottKd-b: If you have suggestions on improving the Launchpad signup process, you should probably discuss it with Launchpad developers in #launchpad.  We've really got no control over that here.04:52
lifelessThere isn't a perception that we are missing out on important r-c bugs04:52
d-blifeless: yeah mostly likely these would be small fidly bugs. sure.04:52
lifeless(with the number of beta users we get, that do file bugs, missing an rc bug would be a surprise)04:52
ScottKlifeless: It does seem to me that fewer people are reporting bugs.  I do think there is a problem, but not that LP accounts are too hard to get.04:53
LaserJockd-b: the problem I see with adding an "anonymous" button is that people will just be lazy and hit that generally04:53
ScottKWon't help the currenlty not to bad spam situation either.04:54
LaserJockd-b: if it actually were a "use only if you absolutely can't do a Launchpad" account I could maybe agree04:54
d-bLaserJock: well i meant like "email here" then you could have them click something in their email...(which could be used to spam people )04:54
lifelessScottK: I think we have a bunch of issues in bug reporting and management; as I raised in the MOTU/community sessions at UDS04:54
ScottKAgreed.04:54
ScottKI just don't think this is one of them.04:54
LaserJockd-b: ok, but that's essentially the same thing as getting a Launchpad account, and an account is much more useful04:54
lifelessScottK: but adding anonymous accounts is rather orthogonal; and adding unverified email access is just a 'please be a spam multiplier' request04:54
ScottKYep.04:54
d-bok. i don't think that bug sure. i agree its not that important.04:55
d-b*remove bug04:55
LaserJockconsidering that we're currently at over 43k open bugs I'm not all that eager to add anonymous bug filing :-)04:57
Hobbseewhy not? Then one could make bug stew ;)04:58
LaserJockover 47k04:58
LaserJockhmm, and 40k of them are unassigned04:58
d-bLaserJock: and of those 7k out of interested how many are reported upstream if required...04:59
LaserJockthat I have no idea04:59
LaserJockI think a decent number get upstream, probably more than are assigned if I had to guess05:00
tritiumLaserJock: speaking of bugs, we want to invite you down to NM to speak to the LoCo.  Maybe we can have a bug jam.05:00
LaserJocktritium: ok, have your people call my people and set something up ;-)05:01
tritiumLaserJock: roger that ;)05:01
LaserJocktritium: where is Ubuntu NM HQ?05:02
tritiumLaserJock: Albuquerque is where most of our members are located05:03
LaserJocknice05:03
tritiumHome of the MITS Altair.  You might say birthplace of the PC, really.05:03
tritiumI won't mention that Microsoft was first headquartered here too.  Well, I guess I just did.  ;)05:04
LaserJocktritium: well, I'm glad you guys managed to kick them out05:21
tritiumLaserJock: ;)05:48
dholbachgood morning06:33
ion_ing06:34
dholbachhi ion_06:35
ion_What’s up?06:35
dholbachgetting up, sipping my coffee and triaging my inbox - and it's snowing again Berlin06:36
dholbachhow are you doing?06:36
ion_Quite okay, thanks06:36
ion_About to go to sleep. :-P06:37
dholbach:)06:37
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
pittiGood morning07:19
pitticjwatson: glib pkgstriptranslations> I didn't fix it, I could never reproduce it07:20
pitticjwatson: so I'll have another look07:21
slangasekmorning07:23
pittihey slangasek07:23
slangasekpitti: I'm working on shuffling invocation of the hotkey-setup code into modprobe.d, as we discussed; but how should this be future-proofed against the module being compiled into the kernel, or against the module being included in an initramfs?07:25
pittislangasek: it'll still have an init script, right? maybe postinst could test whether modinfo thinkpad_acpi exists, and if not, call update-rc.d?07:26
pitti(just a hack, though)07:26
slangasekhmm, eew :)07:26
slangasekthere's no way to get udev to trigger it for us? :)07:27
pittislangasek: I think there is07:27
pittislangasek: but I'd rather have Keybuk's advice for that07:27
* slangasek nods07:27
slangasekthat seems the more reliable way, though - "do this when the hardware is seen by the kernel" rather than "do this when the module is loaded"07:28
pittislangasek: if you have a corresponding device in /sys, you can still call something on that07:28
pittislangasek: maybe it's in fact better to write this as an udev rule in the first place, rather than a modprobe.d script07:28
pittisince that's what we actually want (based on device, not based on module)07:29
pittislangasek: and since it gets autoloaded, it must have something in /sys that triggers it (see modinfo thinkpad_acpi|grep ^alias)07:29
slangaseksure, seen that previously :)07:30
pitticjwatson: glib> one possible reason is that glib defines DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS_PARALLEL07:48
pitticjwatson: and sets MAKEFLAGS; wouldn't MAKEFLAGS apply to debian/rules itself, too?07:49
pittiit has two dh_testdir etc. as well07:51
* pitti asks soyuz guys08:00
pitticjwatson: ok, now I'm pretty sure that the buildds define DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="parallel=2" or something similar08:08
pittihowever, why does this only happen for glib2.0, and not for any other package, ever?08:09
pittiah, because it sets MAKEFLAGS08:10
* scizzo- thinks that someone tried to talk to him in this channel a few days ago but irssi does not have it in backlog.... :(08:17
slangasekscizzo-: mis-tab-completion08:22
scizzo-o...right...08:22
scizzo-now I feel unimportant... :P08:22
slangaseksorry :)08:22
pitticjwatson: ok, fixed pkgbinarymangler uploaded (with locking)08:55
slangasekpitti: autosyncing from testing grabs us 104 updates; do you want to look them over at all before I commit?08:59
pittislangasek: I'll do some random samples, but in theory all of them should be RC fixes09:00
* slangasek nods09:00
pittislangasek: I read the changelogs from a to m, they all look sane to me09:01
pittiso thumbs up from me09:01
slangasekack, flushing09:01
pittislangasek: for the "eliminate/minimize acpi-support/powernowd/acpid" spec Robbie asked me to contribue to, is there already an existing blueprint?09:02
slangasekgood question09:03
slangasekdoesn't look like it09:03
slangasek(wiki says BLUEPRINT: TBD)09:03
pittiok09:03
pittislangasek: btw, HotkeyArchitectureSpec's release note says "removed acpi-support"; I don't think that's feasible, I'll update that09:04
slangasekright09:04
cjwatsonpitti: yay, thanks. I suspect we'll have to delete that broken binary somehow09:07
pitticjwatson: as soon as the new pkgbinarymangler is in the buildd chroots, I'll upload a no-change glib2.0, but I don't know how automatic/manual the buildd chroot upgrade is09:08
pittiI asked in soyuz, but nobody is really awake yet09:08
pitticjwatson: how was it worked around last time?09:09
cjwatsonSQL DELETE09:09
pitti\o/09:09
cjwatsonJulian should know09:09
cjwatsonbuildd chroot upgrade> I don't know offhand either, ask #is maybe09:09
pitticjwatson: we can't just reject the binaries from accepted?09:09
cjwatsonbut they'll probably recommend waiting for Adam to wake up09:09
cjwatsonI tried that, it refuses09:09
pitticjwatson: hm, just worked for me09:10
cjwatsoncurious09:14
cjwatsonoh, maybe I forgot to say -Q accepted, duh09:14
pittiI just bumped the build prio of pkgbinarymangler09:14
pittialthough it seems that there is a more general problem with buildds09:14
pittinone of the i386 ones grab any09:15
slangaseksiretart: hum, who is Fabian Greffrath?09:29
gaspaseb128: Hi, saw your comment. I really wanted to do it but I haven't had time ( and I still need an account for bugzilla )09:33
seb128gaspa: hi, what comment? I do comment on hundred of bugs every week09:34
gaspalol, sorry...09:34
gaspabug #32700309:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 327003 in gnome-panel "add transparency to panel run dialog." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32700309:34
directhexhe's a busy bunny is seb12809:34
seb128ah ok, thanks for the work on it, the screen looks good ;-)09:35
dholbachbut normally seb128 remembers all the bug numbers09:35
dholbachseems like he's getting old :)09:35
slangasekhaha09:35
seb128directhex: I will look at your sync requests today if nobody else is quicker09:35
directhexcool, thanks09:35
gaspaseb128: in the meantime, do you think it can be included? Or it needs review?09:35
seb128dholbach: don't worry I just got a cold, I should be back to normal in a few days ;-)09:35
* directhex is a little concerned @ debian NEW delays right now. seems the ftp-master team is busy with other things09:36
* dholbach hugs seb12809:36
seb128gaspa: I would prefer having comments from somebody who has a clue about all that, would it work for people who have no compositor?09:36
* seb128 hugs dholbach09:36
gaspaseb128: it works for me, without compositor.09:36
* directhex checks seb128's lp account, ensures he's in the dholbach-huggers group09:36
slangasekjelmer: bzr-svn 0.5.0-1 build-depends on python-subvertpy, not in the archive (Debian or Ubuntu)?09:41
jelmerslangasek, subvertpy is in NEW atm09:42
slangasekok09:42
jelmerslangasek, there's a package in the bzr PPA09:42
jelmerslangasek, I was just talking about dholbach about the best way to get it into jaunty09:42
slangasekone that I can sync into Ubuntu, so I can sync bzr-svn? :)09:42
slangasekok09:42
directhexjelmer, oh, the joys of uploading apps when their deps are in NEW for a few months :)09:42
directhexjelmer, we've got that problem for finishing off the mono 2.0 transition \o/09:42
dholbachjelmer: just add the link to the PPA on the bug report09:43
jelmerdholbach, will do09:43
dholbachsuper09:43
slangasekjelmer: and how about bzr* uploads to Debian unstable? :)09:45
slangasekjelmer: the version of python-subvertpy in Debian NEW is less than the one in the ppa; what do you think about getting 0.6.1-1 uploaded to Debian NEW, and then fakesyncing it into Ubuntu?09:54
directhexslangasek, problem is if he doesn't wait for the current one to clear NEW, then it's to the back of the queue with the new version09:55
slangasekthat's not my understanding of the Debian NEW queue ordering09:56
directhexslangasek, it's my experience.09:56
slangasekseb128: eh?  it's my archive day and I'm in ~/syncs :)10:00
seb128slangasek: I did ssh, ls, noticed and closed my ssh ... ie if somebody is hijacking your syncs that's somebody else ;-)10:01
slangasekhrm10:01
* pitti is innocent10:02
pittiwell, at least wrt. to cluttering syncs ATM :)10:02
seb128we have 3 new people who have ssh access now, maybe we need to start being carreful with locks10:02
slangasekseb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-svn/+bug/325930/comments/3 - token collision or something?10:02
ubottuUbuntu bug 325930 in bzr-svn "Please sync bzr-svn 0.5.0-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,Fix released]10:02
slangasekseb128: I was addressing you because yours was the name in the email :)10:02
seb128urg10:02
seb128how did that happened?10:03
slangasekgood question10:03
seb128james_w: hello?10:03
seb128slangasek: did you run syncbugbot at all today?10:06
slangasekseb128: yes, that's what I've been using10:06
slangasekI just don't understand why I'm getting your cookie10:07
seb128slangasek: it seems you are using my launchpadid for some reason?10:07
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
siretartslangasek: a very nice and active contributor to pkg-multimedia.10:37
siretartslangasek: why do you ask?10:37
loolsiretart: I guess because of his debian-devel@ post10:37
james_whello seb12810:37
slangaseksiretart: what lool said; a curious post citing ffmpeg as an example10:38
siretartah, right, ffmpeg is a delicate example. we (lool, fabian and I) have been discussing 'weak' build dependencies last week and I suggested that we should raise that topic on debian-devel10:39
slangasekah10:39
slangasekthen I repeat here what I said on debian-devel: opportunistic build dependencies are a terrible idea :)10:39
cjwatsonwouldn't hold your breath even if it were a good idea, that idea has been floating around for approximately a decade10:39
directhex"weak" build deps?10:40
siretarthowever the mess with alsa not being available on non linux arch makes the build depends line look horrible as well10:40
directhexas in build-suggests?10:40
cjwatson"install this build-dependency if it's available, but don't complain if it isn't"10:40
directhexbuild-recommends!10:40
directhexi like it. make it so, number one!10:40
cjwatsonsiretart: my recommendation would be to take the approach used by debian-installer10:41
loolI didn't know about the control fields proposal and all10:41
siretartwell, in effect that is what ffmpeg needs. In multiverse there are additional libraries ffmpeg can make use of10:41
cjwatsonsiretart: build-deps written out line-by-line in debian/control, debian/genbuilddeps can be run manually to sync this into the actual Build-Depends line10:41
lool(I share the concerns raised on debian-devel@, but saved myself the time to word them properly since others did)10:41
cjwatsonsiretart: so when merging you can throw away any changes to the Build-Depends line itself and just run debian/genbuilddeps after resolving all the other conflicts10:42
loolcjwatson, siretart: Right, we have something like this in gstreamer packages10:42
cjwatsonthis makes it a lot easier to deal with complex build-deps10:42
directhexlool, OOo writes its own buil-deps too10:42
loolAnd we allow end users to add some features by rebuilding the packages with some flags10:42
siretarthm. debian/control is already generated in ffmpeg...10:42
loolcjwatson: But I guess you need to run that and upload a different source to ubuntu though10:43
cjwatsonlool: yes, I don't regard that as a major problem though10:43
loolIt's not, but one of the goals is to have the same source package in Debian and Ubuntu; I don't think I would mind libfaad-dev | ubuntu-minimal though10:43
* slangasek chuckles10:44
* lool already has some hacks for backports, I think Ubuntu could be supported here as well10:45
cjwatsonaesthetically horrible but probably functional10:45
directhexcjwatson, it's a delightfully elegant hack, no?10:45
loolLet's call it pragmatic!   :-P10:46
cjwatsondirecthex: your notion of elegance and mine are clearly different :)10:46
directhexhacks which make you groan & go "that's horrible!" are the best kind!10:46
* slangasek wails and gnashes his teeth at the elegance10:46
directhexwell, not as good as the ones that make you got "oh, that's just..." at a loss for words to convey the beauty of it10:47
cjwatsonmy notion of elegance is closely associated with generality10:48
apwevand, ping10:54
evandapw: pong10:55
apwevand, just looking at usb-creator and i see symlinks say "need to fix this"10:55
apwwondering if you have any context on why its not enabled, security perhaps/10:56
apw?10:56
evandvfat doesn't support symlinks, AIUI10:56
apwahhh, its a vfat fs we make10:56
apwyeah that would break it10:56
evandthe "need to fix this" comment is poorly written :).  It should say something to the effect of "does this subtly break anything?"10:58
apwwell that answer to that is yes :) it breaks the alternate installer10:58
apwspecificlaly the cd upgrade part, but its probabally easier to fix the way it works10:58
evandhooray10:59
pittithekorn: good morning10:59
pittithekorn: do you know how to entirely disable cookie caching in ~/.python-launchpad-bugs.conf?10:59
evandindeed; we're in a bit of a bind from the usb-creator perspective as we want to stick with vfat to ensure compatibility with already formatted by Windows USB disks.11:00
apwevand, yeah, not sure its sensible to try and fix it, the link thats missing is to a directory too11:00
apwso the chances of representing it are low11:00
evandah, ok11:01
thekornpitti, hi, I don't think there is a switch for this (yet), let me look at the code to be sure11:09
pittithekorn: ok, thanks11:10
james_wcjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/ubuntu-seeds/platform.jaunty.apt-transport-https for you to review at your convenience.11:13
james_wcjwatson: it adds it as Recommends on standard11:13
thekornpitti, hmm, no, no such option and no easy way to not write the cookies to thiss file11:14
ograseb128, if i delete mail in my inbox my evo reliably crashes, is that known already ?11:16
seb128jaunty?11:17
ograyep11:18
seb128there is a crasher which is known an seems to be triggered when deleting mails which have images if you have the option to load those11:18
ograthough i didnt try the delete icon in the toolbar yet ... i'm used to use the del key11:18
ograseb128, hmm, doesnt happen with the toolbar icon11:19
seb128should not make a difference11:19
seb128it might depends of the emails11:20
ograbut it was spam that got through which included the last two times at least11:20
ogra*included pics11:20
seb128right, that's a known issue11:20
seb128it tries to load the image and you deleted those before it was done11:20
ograah, k11:20
ograah, it doesnt seem to happen if i'm fast enough (before it starts the download)11:21
ograonly if the download process actually runs11:21
seb128right11:21
seb128known issue no need to open a new bug11:21
ogragreat :)11:21
cjwatsonapw: we should probably just remove our reliance on that symlink. Is it just cdromupgrade? I reassigned that bug to update-manager rather than closing it ...11:28
cjwatsonjames_w: merged, thanks11:28
james_wthanks cjwatson11:29
apwcjwatson, yeah its still there, i was looking at fixing usb-creator, but thats not going to happen now i know the underlying reason11:29
apwwill look at fixing the script instead11:29
cjwatsonthe dists/stable and dists/unstable symlinks are definitely legacy11:29
apwi assume those refer to the debian aliases for their releases11:30
ogracjwatson, is  /build/config/armel/ixp4xx/netboot.cfg originally coming from debian like that (despite your recent changeds indeed) ?11:35
ogra(in d-i)11:35
cjwatsonogra: yeah11:37
cjwatsonapw: right11:37
ograweird, someone on the debian-arm ML pointed out their ernel is armeb so wouldnt need endianess swapping11:38
ogra*kernel11:38
* ogra tries to find out why ours doesnt boot at all11:39
cjwatsonogra: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kamion/debian-installer/main/annotate/head%3A/build/config/armel/ixp4xx/netboot.cfg (though that branch needs an update)11:39
ograright, both call devio ... strange ...11:40
ograi can boot the kernel standalone but not from di-nslu2.bin11:42
apwis it normal for a package to require you have python-distutils-extra installed for a source build and not tell you?11:43
ograshould be in the build-deps either by itself or through a dep of something there11:44
jelmerslangasek: sorry, was away11:46
jelmerslangasek: I was waiting until squeeze before uploading to sid again, although new RC-bugs would be very unusual at this point11:47
jelmerdirecthex: I was under that impression as well, though I've never tried it in fear that my uploads would end up at the tail of the queue11:49
* directhex REJECTs jelmer 11:49
apwmvo, seems you own update-manager, is that a direct debian sync?11:53
ograheh11:53
ograis u-m in debian ?11:53
apwdunno hard to tell, its one of those things where the normal" version number tell you everthing"  rule falls down11:54
apwto restate things, i have a patch for it, what do i do with it11:55
apwit behaves oddly as it claims to have a real maintainer, unlike most packages11:55
cjwatsonit's maintained in Ubuntu11:55
ograright11:55
cjwatson(in the absence of mvo telling you otherwise) either attach the patch to a bug report; or create a branch (since it's in bzr), commit your patch there, and send a merge request11:56
ograapw, the control file should tell you about the original bzr branch11:57
cjwatsondebcheckout update-manager; cd update-manager; fiddle; bzr push lp:~apw/update-manager/name-of-your-branch11:58
ograpfft, always these advanced tools11:58
apwahh missed the "its in bxr" whine, its simply not loud enough11:58
* slangasek fixes apt to depend on figlet12:02
directhexslangasek, figlet is non-free. try toilet12:14
mvoapw: hello, what is the issue with update-manager?12:16
slangasekoh, thank you - would've been terribly embarrassing to get the wrong banner printer pulled into the base system ;)12:16
apwmvo, an issue with cdromupdate when converted to a usbstick.  symlinks get lost, it doesn't work.  simplest solution to avoid using the links.  am just pushing a bzr branch with a proposed fix12:17
mvoapw: aha, cool. just give me branch location when the push is finished12:18
apwmvo will do, its a trivial change12:18
directhexslangasek, well, putting apt into restricted would be awesome, but...12:18
slavikwill evolution come with the libmapi plugin in 9.04?12:19
seb128slavik: evolution-mapi will be available, not sure if it will be in the default installation or universe though12:20
directhexevolution-mapi is the non-OWA exchange thing, yes?12:20
slavikyes12:20
directhexneato12:20
slavikit's supposed to be part of gnome 2.2612:20
seb128that's the new version using openchange12:20
slavikbut it also depends on samba412:20
slavikhence me asking12:20
seb128it's waiting for review right now12:20
seb128slavik: it will be in universe for sure12:21
slavikseb128: k, thanks ... I tried building it myself, but couldn't get it to work12:21
slavikawesome12:21
seb128there is a package available in a ppa, look to the need-packaging bug on launchpad12:21
slaviklooking, heh12:22
slavikfound it12:25
apwmvo, branch should be here, hopefully I handled the changelog right, let me know if you need me to change it or have any commentslp:~apw/update-manager/cdromupgrade-avoid-links12:29
mvoapw: thanks, merging now12:30
mvoapw: thanks, looks good12:31
apwmvo, cool12:32
slangasekcjwatson: can you help me understand why adding '* Extra-Exclude: libjtidy-java-doc' to ubunt.jaunty/supported doesn't appear to have affected component-mismatches?12:48
directhexwoo, m-a 0.412:50
Laneysynced?12:51
ogram-a ? who is using that in times of dkms12:51
Laneymono-addins not module-assistant12:51
ograhaha12:51
ograyay for abbreviations12:52
cjwatsonslangasek: my guess would be that it needs to be done in kubuntu.jaunty etc.12:52
seb128Laney: yes, I did the sync now12:52
Laney:D12:53
Laneyand now we can sync f-spot12:53
directhexLaney, which means you can become the proud owner of an f-spot sync if you like12:53
Laneylater12:53
seb128Laney: are you sure?12:53
Laneyactually it might FTBFS, there was some weird problem12:53
Laneyyes12:53
seb128Laney: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22054264/debdiff12:54
Laneyis that the one from chriscoulson?12:54
seb128Laney: that's a pending sponsoring request12:54
Laney(my internet isn't working)12:54
seb128Laney: yes12:54
Laneyright, well I've put that into Debian SVN12:54
Laneyso it'll be in -212:54
seb128Laney: there is ar4545_locales-import change listed there12:54
seb128ok so we can't sync yet12:54
seb128it updates the build-depends too12:55
Laneygrr12:55
seb128Laney: have you looked at the other suggested changes for notebooks, etc?12:55
* Laney mutters about having been told sooner12:55
Laneyno12:55
seb128Laney: told what? we can sync but that's as cheap to upload this debdiff for now and sync -2 when it will be uploaded to debian12:55
seb128being is sync in nice but should not stop bug fixes to be uploaded to ubuntu12:56
Laneythere could always be the next patch12:57
Laneywhich leaves us constantly chasing the sync but never getting there12:57
seb128well, I would sync if the build-depends was correct12:58
seb128but if we sync f-spot now it will not got to dep-wait for the new version but ftbfs directly12:58
seb128if you can get that fixed in debian we can sync12:58
Laneythat's in ther etoo ;)12:58
seb128there being svn or experimental?12:59
Laneysvn12:59
seb128we can't use that for syncs ...12:59
seb128anyway let's upload to debian can be synced12:59
seb128thanks for you work there ;-)12:59
seb128let's -> nex12:59
seb128next12:59
slangasekcjwatson: strange; I can't seem to find jtidy anywhere in germinate-output/{ed,k,}ubuntu/all13:00
slangasekit's openoffice.org -> lucene2 -> jtidy, but it doesn't show up at all...13:01
slangasekohhh, because lucene2 is an obsolete OOo build-dep13:02
slangasekok, let's fix it that way then :)13:02
cjwatsonall_edubuntu_jaunty_ia64:classpath-doc                             | classpath                             | libjtidy-java-doc                                | Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>                         |        30605094 |          31398413:02
cjwatsonfrex13:02
slangasekright, which will go away when the ports catch up on OOo13:03
cjwatsonyeah, it shows up only on ia64/powerpc/sparc13:03
cjwatsonwhich explains why you don't see it on people.ubuntu.com's germinate-output, which is i386 only; I looked in cocoplum:/srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-germinate/13:03
slangasekok13:03
pittimvo: thanks for testing metacity-clutter! *hug*13:04
mvopitti: cheers13:06
mvopitti: having debs would be cool too, its a bit cumbersome though13:06
mdeslaurLaney: I can't reproduce your vim upgrade bug13:07
mdeslaurLaney: what packages did you have installed before the upgrade?13:07
Laneymdeslaur: I think you might need vim-gnome?13:07
Laneyor maybe vim-full13:07
mdeslaurLaney: ok, will try, thanks13:08
=== LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox
jelmerslangasek, Am I mistaken to think that I'll lose my position in NEW by uploading a new version of a package?13:27
slangasekjelmer: I don't know.  In the past I've understood that it would not change the package's position in the queue, but it's possible the current ftpmaster policy perversely punishes uploaders for fixing bugs in packages that are still in NEW13:28
cjwatsonor perhaps just that ftpmasters operate on shiniest/easiest first :-)13:32
pittislangasek: just committed the last sleep quirk from acpi-support to hal-info, will do an upload of hal-info; want me to rip out those bits from acpi-support, or want to wait for spec review or something else?13:40
slangasekpitti: well, please go ahead and at least commit the change to the acpi-support branch.  Which bits are the sleep quirks? suspend.d?13:42
pittislangasek: *.config (see the spec I just wrote, I answered to Robbie's mail)13:42
slangasekah, the lib/*.config13:43
slangasekso all of these quirks are known to hal-info?  Rockin'13:43
pittithere wasn't a lot left, just three commits13:43
* slangasek nods13:43
pittiand as explained in the spec, ACPI_SLEEP should just go completely13:44
jelmerslangasek, I've uploaded 0.6.1-1 to NEW and uploaded the matching source to http://people.debian.org/~jelmer/new/subvertpy_0.6.1-1_source.changes; will also mention that in the bzr-svn bugreport13:48
slangasekjelmer: cheers13:48
slangasekpitti: you wrote in the spec that you committed your changes to acpi-support bzr - ENEEDSPUSH?14:06
pittislangasek: still working on it14:06
slangasekok14:06
pitti(sorry, pressed Enter too fast)14:06
slangasek:-)14:06
pittislangasek: pushed14:12
pittineed to stop working on this now, I have a job interview soon14:12
slangasekpitti: ta14:12
slangasekpitti: as an interviewer or an interviewee? :-)14:13
pittislangasek: the former :)14:14
slangasekoh good, so I don't have to worry with you competing with me for this job I'm applying for at Novell ;-)14:14
jdongpitti: hope you don't get an answer like "Because ISO/IEC 14882:2003 section 14.1 paragraph 4 said so" from your interviewee....14:16
jdong:D14:16
jdongthat went down in my books as the most impressive answer for why you can't use float or double literal as a template parameter...14:17
slangasekpitti: one consequence of rev 109 would appear to be that acpi-support can still be invoked manually for suspend/resume, but will do Wrong Things on the quirked platforms, so we should follow through on nuking the suspend handling completely?14:17
pittislangasek: yes, that's the idea14:18
* slangasek nods14:19
pittislangasek: but I want to drop it carefully, i. e. for each removal do grep -r's of reverse references14:19
slangaseksure14:19
pittiIMHO pm-suspend and friends should be the only supported interface14:19
slangasekI think we want to take care of the top of the tree before the next upload, at least, to make sure the wrong suspend method doesn't get called14:19
pittislangasek: AFAICS, handling the model specific acpi events should be the only thing which we should keep14:20
pittislangasek: the most crucial bit to remove is now /etc/acpi/events/sleepbtn and friends14:20
slangasekok14:21
pittiI guess that's what you mean with "accidentally invoke"14:21
slangasekyes14:21
* pitti reuploads his rejected g-p-m; race condition with apt-get source and another upload14:22
slangasekpitti: note the Vcs-Bzr field as well, then :)14:22
ScottKslangasek: Could I have a moment of your time with your archive-admin had on?14:23
slangaseksure14:23
slangasekpitti: btw, when ripping out events/sleepbtn, there are probably a few dozen LP bugs to close ;)14:23
ScottKI've prepared the input for syncbugbot for the clamav rdepend backports.14:23
pittislangasek: \o/14:24
slangasekScottK: ok14:24
ScottKhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/116088/ and my LP cookie should be available.14:24
ScottKI can go ahead and accept the source backports (which I pre-loaded over the weekend).14:24
slangasekScottK: these are intrepid or hardy?14:24
ScottKThe target is Hardy.  These are all from Jaunty.14:24
* slangasek nods14:25
pittislangasek: g-p-m uploaded and bzr-pushed14:26
slangasekpitti: oh, also, please hold off on uploading those acpi-support rip-out-the-guts changes until I have a chance to talk further with Bart Samwel (Debian maintainer)14:26
slangasek(i.e., until i catch up on my email)14:27
slangasekpitti: g-p-m> thanks :)14:27
pittislangasek: noted; right now it's only half-baked anyway (sleep button still active, etc.)14:27
* slangasek nods14:27
ScottKslangasek: Thank you.14:27
slangasekScottK: no prob14:28
dholbachslangasek: bug 327209 (for bug 325930)15:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 327209 in ubuntu "Please sync subvertpy from Debian NEW" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32720915:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 325930 in bzr-svn "Please sync bzr-svn 0.5.0-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32593015:12
slangasekdholbach: right, thanks15:13
* dholbach hugs slangasek15:13
dholbachgracias15:13
slangasek(not that we can actually do a sync from NEW, but we'll do something that resembles it :)15:13
dholbachslangasek: right... put the link to the .dsc file there15:13
slangasekok, cool15:13
alex-weejmvo: hey15:21
alex-weejyou committed a change of mine to compiz-fusion-plugins-main15:22
alex-weejit's the first time i've done a debdiff properly15:22
alex-weeji got 4 emails shortly afterwards saying it failed to build! :(15:22
mvoalex-weej: no worries15:24
ScottKalex-weej: That'll be due to kernel issues in sparc, ia64, powerpc, and hppa15:25
alex-weejok... good :D15:26
mvoalex-weej: I adjusted the change slightly to make it into a cdbs patch instead of a inline patch, but otherwise it was fine15:28
alex-weejmvo: yeah i realised it was using cdbs soon after uploading15:30
alex-weejby the way, do you know much about compiz configuration handling? i opened a bug yesterday about a default value not actually being the default...15:31
alex-weejthe window resize plugin to be precise15:31
alex-weejin gconf, it is set to 0 (normal), but it clearly behaves as rectangle until i change it then change it back on a fresh intrepid installation15:32
alex-weeji figured it may also bork for that config file change i submitted15:32
alex-weejif there's some weird interplay between compizconfig/gconf15:32
alex-weej(yay for unnecessary abstractions)15:33
seb128alex-weej: there is different config backend are you sure you are using the gconf one?15:34
alex-weeji'm not sure of anything with compiz to be honest15:34
mvoalex-weej: for config default changes, best use the metadata/*.xml files15:34
alex-weejmvo: that i did for my patch15:34
mvoalex-weej: they auto-generate gconf schemas15:34
alex-weejright, that's sort of what i suspected15:34
alex-weejwhen does the gconf schema get generated? build time?15:34
mvohm, and that did not work?15:34
mvoyes, build time15:35
alex-weeji'm not sure i haven't actually tested it -- let me find the bug i reported15:35
alex-weejhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/32669015:35
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/326690/+text)15:36
alex-weejmvo: at build time of plugins-main or backend-gconf?15:38
ogra_Keybuk, hey ... you had a hack for bootchart to make it possible to measure desktop startup times iirc, can you explain NCommander how to do that (or point him to a doc)15:53
Keybukbuild the current bootchart from source15:54
Keybukboot with bootchart=nostop15:54
Keybukthen run sudo /etc/init.d/stop-bootchart start once the desktop is up15:54
NCommanderKeybuk, I'm going to guess that requires initramfs support15:54
NCommander(or is there a way I could modify bootchart not to require that)15:54
Keybukno, the current bootchart will work without an initramfs too15:55
Keybukbut you do have to build it from source, because building java appears to be broken on the builds15:55
NCommanderOh, very handy15:55
mvoKeybuk: thanks for the hint for the metacity-clutter branch, it does indeed provide sme additional effects over the stock metacity compositor :)15:57
Keybukmvo: did you build it from git?15:58
mvoKeybuk: yes15:58
kirklandfresh install of alpha4, logging in through gdm loads the desktop background but just kinda hangs there16:01
kirklandsome noise about pulse-audio in /var/log/messages16:01
loolcjwatson: Hmm could you advice on how to pull wireless-crda in main?  I don't quite know about hardware specific packages (in this case wifi): how should these be pulled on some installs and upgrades?  bug #32580116:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 325801 in ubuntu "Main inclusion request: wireless-crda" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32580116:01
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
=== ScriptRipper_ is now known as ScriptRipper
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
kirkland(compiz was to blame for my problem)16:13
ograyeah, thats an easy victim ... as NM is :)16:14
pittislangasek: FYI, uploading a new pm-utils now with the last bit of acpi-support-edness dropped (vbetool counterpart)16:17
james_wpitti: I was just about to prepare a debdiff for pm-utils16:18
james_wbug 32618316:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 326183 in pm-utils "No need to run hwclock on suspend/resume" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32618316:18
slangasekdamn, I was working on fixing the pm-utils side of 59695 - ok, will queue my patch :)16:18
james_wany chance you could fold that in?16:18
pittioh, wow16:18
james_wheh16:18
pittisorry, I wasn't able that so many people were hammering on it ATM :)16:18
slangasek<cough>bzr</cough>16:18
pittislangasek: it's not ATM16:19
slangasekI know16:19
slangasek:)16:19
pittianyway, package should hit https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pm-utils in one minute16:19
slangasekack16:19
pittijames_w: I'll be happy to sponsor it, or just send it to slangasek if he'll do an upload anyway?16:20
pittijames_w: otherwise just subscribe me to the bug afterwards, I can sponsor it16:20
james_wsure, thanks16:20
pittiok, before I step on anyone else's toes when doing sponsoring...16:20
pittiseb128: ok for me to upload totem{,-pl-parser}?16:21
pittioh, -ENOSEB16:21
NCommanderKeybuk, I got bootchart setup, but I'm not sure where/if I need to kill the process at the end of the graphical startup (bootchart.org source ball says nothing about killing it, the init.d item for Ubuntu seems to be Ubuntu specifc)16:24
Keybukthen run sudo /etc/init.d/stop-bootchart start once the desktop is up16:25
pittiKeybuk: incidentally I was playing around with that as well yesterday16:27
pittiKeybuk: and I couldn't figure out how to update /etc/bootchart/desktop16:27
pittierm, /etc/readahead/desktop, I mean16:27
Keybukpitti: I was going to say, somebody's confusing bootchart and readahead there ;)16:27
Keybukpitti: you don't have a separate /usr ?16:28
pittiKeybuk: when I used profile and disabled stop-readahead, it'd make /boot huge, and not touch desktop16:28
pittiKeybuk: no, I don't; do I need to?16:28
Keybukif you don't have a separate /usr, /etc/readahead/desktop is unused16:28
pittiah, ok16:28
Keybukif you do have a separate /usr, it's update automatically16:28
pittithat explains why my desktop startup with cold cache is so excrutiatingly slow16:29
Keybukto get it to include desktop, rm /etc/rc2.d/S99stop-readahead and run the init script manually when the desktop is up16:29
Keybukno it doesn't16:29
Keybukthe default lists don't include the desktop16:29
pittiKeybuk: i. e. this puts everything in /etc/readahead/boot (guess that should work fine)16:29
Keybukright16:31
seb128pitti: is your bootchart available somewhere?16:34
pittiseb128: still need to do a current one16:34
seb128ok16:34
slangasekjames_w: I have my pm-utils changes merged onto pitti's last upload; feel free to ping me when you have a fix for 32618316:38
=== hefe_bia_ is now known as hefe_bia
james_wslangasek: http://pastebin.com/f4d3ec23316:57
slangasekjames_w: ah, looks good :)16:58
slangasekjames_w: is there any sort of reference for the 'no longer needed' bit?16:59
=== sadfasdf is now known as DBO
james_wslangasek: will the tinitus and general numbness I feel following the 3 hour discussion between Scott and Colin on clock handling do?17:00
slangasekheh17:01
Keybukit was a complicated topic ;)17:01
james_wKeybuk: do you have the wiki page?17:02
Keybukwiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareClock17:02
slangasekKeybuk: could you confirm that we don't need to run hwclock on resume for current kernels?  That's what I remember, but my memory is fallible17:02
james_wthanks17:02
Keybukyour filesystem may be at risk if you fail to keep your system clock in sync with your hardware clock17:02
Keybukslangasek: I can confirm17:02
calcRiddell: what is the multimedia framework for KDE?17:02
james_wit was an interesting discussion, but I really didn't want to know that much about clocks17:02
Keybukthe kernel clearly resets the system clock from the hardware clock on resume, based on the delta it measured on suspend17:02
slangasekKeybuk: and that's true for resume from hibernate, as well as resume from suspend?17:02
superm1pitti, regarding http://cgit.freedesktop.org/hal-info/commit/?id=d3509c6af4c939d0b52dc4314b364bd4c4c33228 , I suspect you need more granularity to that quirk.  The system probably ships with multiple different graphics cards, and you may be altering the behavior for all of them with such a quirk17:03
Keybukslangasek: as far as the kernel is concerned, they're the same17:03
slangasekokie17:03
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
Keybukit's in the RTC driver _suspend()_resume() code17:03
james_wKeybuk: the first section of that page asserts that the system clock is unreliable, and then states that it is reliable two lines later17:04
calcRiddell: it doesn't use gstreamer directly does it? iirc i had read at one point it can use it but not by default?17:04
Keybukjames_w: I probably got confused between reliable and accurate ;)17:04
Riddellcalc: currently we use xine via the Phonon API17:05
Keybukjames_w: ah, no, I just confused myself - fixed17:05
Riddellcalc: Phonon does have a gstreamer backend but I believe it's not very good as well as the usual gstreamer lacking DVD menus17:05
calcRiddell: ok so if OOo were to somehow grow native multimedia support for KDE it would need to use Phonon?17:05
Keybuksystem clock = accurate, hardware clock = reliable, network clock = both but slow17:05
Riddellcalc: that would be the best way yes, although it could just use gstreamer or whatever directly17:06
calcRiddell: ok, yea it currently uses gstreamer, just wondering if is is good enough like that or if it would be wishlist to get phonon support17:06
stgraberogra: for that ltsp install failure, /cdrom is already mounted in /target, what's the best ? Drop --mount-cdrom ?17:07
ograstgraber, yes, that was a temp. workaround anyway17:07
Riddellcalc: it should work fine, just means a second multimedia library on the CDs, not the end of the world17:07
NCommanderKeybuk, I have bootchartd setup, but it seems to immediately return when loaded as init=/sbin/bootchartd17:08
stgraberogra: ok, will do in the next upload17:08
calcRiddell: ok17:08
* calc bbl, finding dinner17:09
KeybukNCommander: where did I tell you to load it like that?17:09
KeybukNCommander: just boot normally17:09
ograNCommander, i'm pretty sure the package works as advertised if Keybuk tells you so ;)17:11
ograhe's its biggest user17:11
* NCommander has no doubt of the packaging working, it just happens the user in this case should probably not read the upstream docs in favor of asking questions to Keybuk 17:11
Keybukwell, yes ;)17:12
Keybukthe only bit of the upstream package we use is the java code to draw the pretty chart17:12
Keybukeverything else is custom to Ubuntu17:12
NCommanderAh, I wasn't aware of that17:12
slangasekjames_w: curious how suspend/resume seems faster with this patch applied ;)17:14
Keybukslangasek: the hwclock patch?17:14
Keybukbecause you're not sleeping for >1s on suspend to sync the two, and >1s on resume to sync them the other way17:14
pittisuperm1: possibly; but the previous change was a regression, so I wanted to fix the regression first17:18
pittisuperm1: if someone has a similar system, and different graphics card, we can still fix it for that17:18
=== sadfljsadkfjsa is now known as DBO
slangasekKeybuk: er, yes, I was there all last week, I know why it's faster... :)17:20
superm1pitti, okay17:21
Keybukslangasek: but you're still curious?17:21
slangasekKeybuk: no, I'm "curious ;)"17:21
Keybukahh17:22
KeybukI'm tired17:22
bryceW: Bizarre Error - File size is not what the server reported 55233 2761717:33
bryceheh17:33
bryce(reran apt-get update and it went away, but funny, haven't seen "Bizarre Error" before from apt)17:34
=== asac_ is now known as asac
shankhshi guys I am learning shell programming and GUI development in Linux , I just made a small program of stopwatch which GUI program you prefer Qt or GTK?Why?18:02
shankhsThe shell program will be the back end for the front end GUI18:02
shankhsPlease help I am really confused ...18:04
shankhsI know here only ubuntu development related stuff is discussed but isnt Qt and gTK part of ubuntu?18:04
KeybukUbuntu uses GTK+, Kubuntu uses Qt18:05
shankhsKeybuk: what a beginner should prefer?Do you know any good tutorial for both of them?Thanx18:06
cjwatsonlool: the ship or server-ship seed or something like that would be the usual place, but getting it installed on upgrades is sort of tricky18:07
cjwatsonlool: I don't suppose it would be appropriate for the kernel image package to recommend it?18:07
Keybukshankhs: are you more familar with C or C++ ?18:08
shankhsKeybuk: ya i have been programming in C/C++ for 3 years now18:08
Keybukshankhs: which?  they're quite different languages18:09
shankhsKeybuk: I first learned C and then C++18:09
Keybukshankhs: well, GTK+ is pure C; Qt is pure C++18:10
shankhsKeybuk: hmmm...18:10
shankhsKeybuk: so I think I will go for GTK+18:11
shankhsKeybuk: thanx for your help18:11
shankhsKeybuk: Do you know a good tutorial for GTK+?18:12
ograshankhs, http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk-tutorial/stable/ ... first hit on google for "gtk tutorial"18:12
calcwow gnome locked up on me again, for the second day in a row18:17
calci clicked on the clock applet and it hung hard18:17
calcthe apps i am running still work but it appears the panel at minimum is dead18:17
ogradont click on the clock applet then :)18:17
calcogra: :-P18:17
jdonglol18:17
jdongremember that one bug about clicking panel applets in a certain sequence triggers a mouse-lockup?18:18
calcjdong: no that sounds fun too18:18
jdongit always amuses me how people find bugs like that and reproduce it :)18:18
jdongI believe it's some combination of right and middle clicking18:18
jdongit locks the cursor into the draggy-hand-thingie18:18
calcRiddell: mandriva does not have qt support, they just totally turned off qt/kde support entirely18:19
calcok well i hope i can brb, need to kill gnome18:20
calchmm kill -HUP fixed it18:20
* ogra hands calc a KDE shotgun18:20
slangasekpitti, cjwatson: hrm, very strange; trying to test the pm-utils fix for bug #59695, and I'm finding that in jaunty, something is overriding the disk pm setting that I'm applying when disconnecting AC... I see only one call to hdparm with the right setting, but when I check afterwards, -B254 is set instead of -B12818:24
slangasekpitti, cjwatson: and if I call hdparm directly, this isn't the case18:24
ubottuError: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/59695/+text)18:24
slangasekkilling hal and g-p-m appears to make no difference18:24
shankhsogra : thanx18:25
slangasekpitti, cjwatson: ok, no, ignore me; hdparm is being difficult generally18:30
ogralets just drop it from the archive ...18:31
ograsolves all probs with it18:31
=== Omegamoon is now known as Omegamoon|away
CarlFKanyone know a phone number for Canopus (want to ask some questions about the twinpact)18:48
CarlFKwhops, wrong #chan - sorry18:49
cjwatsonKeybuk: HardwareClock> generally excellent, but --stepsys => --hctosys?18:54
cjwatsonKeybuk: presumably with --hctosys in udev, udevadm trigger becomes especially obvious since your clock changes :)18:55
cjwatsonKeybuk: or is --stepsys new?18:56
cjwatsonyeah, I can't read18:56
cjwatsonI love the phrase "legacy APIs such as stat()" - it clarifies what a useless word "legacy" is18:57
cjwatsonit can mean anything from "will be removed next week" to "your entire system depends on it"18:57
keeswhy would stat() be considered legacy??18:59
loolcjwatson: I guess a recommends on the kernel image package is what we will use then; thanks18:59
cjwatsonkees: time_t rather than struct timespec18:59
slangasekkees: meet Keybuk18:59
loolcjwatson: I have no problem with that, just not enough good judgment to take the best decision18:59
slangasekkees: anything that wasn't invented next week is legacy :P19:00
Keybukcjwatson: --hctosys is an existing call that copies the hardware clock to the system clock adding a delta for timezone if necessary19:00
cjwatsonKeybuk: s'ok, I worked it out19:01
Keybuksince the system clock has already been copied from the hardware clock by the kernel, there's no reason to do that -- all we need to is step the system clock by the timezone delta19:01
Keybukslangasek suggesting doing that in hwclock to keep it all in the same place19:01
cjwatsonthe only thing I'd say there is that it would be nice, as a sanity check, to read the hardware clock and compare it (roughly!) with the system clock so that we can avoid accidentally stepping twice19:01
cjwatsonwe don't need subsecond accuracy for that19:02
Keybukby "legacy stat() call" I meant just that19:02
Keybukthe legacy stat() syscall19:02
keesah!19:02
cjwatsonexcept that POSIX stat() has the same property19:02
KeybukPOSIX can be legacy ;)19:02
cjwatsonhence my "useless word" comment :-)19:02
kees*whew*  stat(2) has been time_t for as long as I could find.  okay, syscall.  /me tunes back out19:03
calcgah, not this vile unforgiven cover again :\19:05
* calc wonders if anyone else from the sprint got exposed to it19:05
Keybukyeah, glibc fills in those values for you ;)  the kernel uses struct timespec internally19:07
Keybuk(of course, then if you read the kernel source you'll find out that time_t isn't compatible with one returned by time() and you'll want to hide in a small hole somewhere and forget about the whole thing)19:11
=== IaguK is now known as j_ack
ograKeybuk, oh, you are poking at hwclock ... could you fix it for all arm arches while you're at it ? :P19:28
Keybukno, you can do that ;)19:28
ograbah :)19:29
Keybukwhat's broken about it?19:29
ogratimes out waiting for the clock ticks ... not sure yet19:29
Keybukin which direction?19:29
ograi honestly havent had time to look closely yet, NCommander has it on his todo though19:29
ograboth19:29
Keybukpun intended?19:29
ogranot really, no :)19:30
Keybukwhich /dev/rtcN appear on an ARM? what are their drivers?19:30
ograits a sad issue ... since it blocks the system from powering donw on some SoCs19:30
ograthe devices appear fine19:31
KeybukdeviceS19:31
Keybuk?19:31
ograwell, on the beagle it uses whatever the defconfig defines ... which i assume is the correct one ... let me check19:32
ogragrmbl, i dont have the config handy19:32
Keybukdo you have the system handy?19:32
ograCONFIG_RTC_DRV_TWL4030=y19:33
ogranot set up after the sprint yet19:34
ograso its integrated in the TWL4030 chip19:34
NCommanderKeybuk, if you want access to my board to debug, your welcome to it; I traced it to the ioctl call which hangs19:34
KeybukI have other things to do19:35
Keybukand know about as much as you - so you're already in a better place to fix it ;)19:35
jdonganyone know what kind of "offensive words" pwgen refers to with regard to the --no-vowels option?19:38
jdongI've tried reading 5 screenfuls of pwgen with a dirty mind and am wondering whether or not it's a real risk?19:39
directhexjdong, wndws19:39
jdonglol19:39
ograboobs4u19:39
Mithrandirfck, possibly?19:40
Keybukjdong: you're basically asking us to say very offensive things to you, you know that? :p19:40
jdonglol19:40
ograhehe19:40
MithrandirKeybuk: he probably likes it19:40
KeybukMithrandir: it's the opposite way round19:40
jdongwell I am just wondering if using pwgen passwords in password resets will have a bad effect.19:40
jdongbut as Mithrandir points out, seems like there's problems either way :)19:40
Keybukfor example, it's perfectly possible for pwgen to generate the password "fuckyou"19:41
ograthat requires some switches though ...19:41
jdongwell considering you're randomly generating "pronouncable" words, the chances that eventually you'll hit an offense-sounding one is probably high.19:41
ograno number and no capital letter ...19:41
Keybukno it doesn't?19:41
Keybukwell19:41
KeybukFuckY0u then19:41
ograyeah, that would work19:42
jdongI guess debian bug 387461...19:43
ubottuDebian bug 387461 in pwgen "pwgen lacks option to generate passwords without vowels" [Minor,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/38746119:43
* jpds just walked and saw Keybuk's last message and wondered what hit the fan before reading up.19:43
jdongI guess the given example is not english?19:44
Keybukjpds: my phrasing was deliberate ;)19:44
jdonglol screw it I'm going to use regular pwgen for this19:46
jdongI don't see anything that bad after a good 20 minutes (famous last words)19:47
jdongthe worst I've seen so far is "Mah8ineU" and you have to read that with a really really really questionable mindset to see anything.19:47
* Keybuk changes his root password19:47
jdongLOL19:47
Keybukwe used to have a password generator that simply took two words from /usr/share/dict/words and join them together19:48
Keybukthat changed when a director got the password boysenberrybuttocks and objected19:48
jdongLOL19:49
cjwatsonjdong: the given example in the bug is a racist term in English19:49
Keybukneedless to say, a variation on that became the root password for a while ;)19:49
cjwatsonthe last four letters anyway19:49
jdongcjwatson: well I guess I learned something new today.19:49
jdongnot something useful, but new :)19:49
Keybukcjwatson: I've just noticed who _filed_ that bug ;)19:49
Keybukelmo: do we run pwgen with --no-vowels? :p19:49
elmoKeybuk: spads does ;-)19:50
Keybuk:D19:50
ograapparently :)19:50
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: I tested and confirmed your patch for Ubiquity/partman_commit silent failure generates an error dialog, and I've added instructions to the other bug (lost partitions) to easily recreate the problem environment in a VM.19:52
cjwatsonIntuitiveNipple: yay, thanks. did the update-dev change help?19:53
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: umm... define "update-dev" ? I may be missing something here :)19:53
cjwatson17:37 <@cjwatson> IntuitiveNipple: if you fancy doing another test after the partman_commit one, try deleting the "udevadm trigger" line from /bin/update-dev19:56
cjwatson17:38 <IntuitiveNipple> okay, will try that... with VMs its easy and quick.19:56
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson, oh... ok *now* I recall. I'm currently in the first run of the install on a brand new 400G drive... the 200G drive with all my 'stuff' on is cold on the desk so I'm making-do right now19:58
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: I'll do that update-dev test once I've got all the VM images copied over.20:00
cjwatsongreat, thanks - and thanks for the reproduction recipe, I'll try to get to that20:00
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: If you do use the recipe, after doing the partition-table create with fdisk, the interesting bit (which I forgot to list) is to show the partition table using fdisk in 'cylinder' mode - makes the cause more obvious20:01
IntuitiveNippleiwl3945/NetworkManager - is it known that WPA2 AES+TKIP fails for a (hidden) SSID and then only offers WEP methods for the 2nd attempt?20:05
LaserJockare MIRs for packages that Main packagers were using an embedded copy generally easier?20:07
cjwatsonLaserJock: yes, if it's just a split-out then it doesn't require explicit approval20:08
LaserJockit's not a split out exactly20:09
LaserJockfor some reason moodle was using it's own copy of smarty and yui20:09
LaserJockDebian has removed those and added the deps20:09
LaserJockso for me to merge I've got to get smarty and yui into Main20:10
ograLaserJock, there is an ancient proposal from kees to split the modules out and use their deps instead ... i think you can refer to that20:10
LaserJockok20:11
LaserJockI just wasn't sure how eager people would be to add a couple more php packages to the Main pot20:11
LaserJockalthough if moodle already had a copy of the code one would presume it'd be ok20:11
ograhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuContentServer see the bottom20:12
ograeffectively these modules were in main already since they enetered with moodle20:12
LaserJockright20:13
ograyui is new though20:13
ogra(as in: not in the list on the spec)20:13
* ogra needs to go cooking ... back later20:13
mathiazjames_w: hi - I'm using bzr and bzr-builddeb to merge mysql-dfsg-5.1 from experimental20:14
mathiazjames_w: is there a way to make bzr bd -S generate a .changes file that includes all the relevant changelog entries?20:15
slangasekmathiaz: bzr bd -S --builder 'spell out the full command' :(20:28
slangasekmathiaz: known limitation, has to do with the way bzr plugins parse arguments20:29
mathiazslangasek: thanks!20:49
=== Omegamoon is now known as Omegamoon|away
cjwatsonkees: bug 57091 didn't get automatically closed by your procps upload since it wasn't filed on procps; you might want to close it by hand21:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 57091 in ubuntu "proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_syncookies=1 should be seriously considered to permit SYN flood defense..." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5709121:17
keescjwatson: erk, d'oh, thanks for the catch.21:23
LaserJockogra: darn, Jaunty's yui wants to pull in javascript-common, which pulls in wwwconfig-common :(21:24
=== Omegamoon|away is now known as Omegamoon|Dozing
seb128soren: could you look at bug #227837 it's on the sponsoring list for some months now22:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 227837 in libvirt "[Hardy] overzealous masquerading affects vm to vm traffic" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22783722:22
sorenslangasek: Do we respin DVD's for point releases?22:28
slangaseksoren: no22:28
sorenseb128: It's on my list. Somewhere :(22:28
sorenslangasek: How come?22:28
keessuperm1: can you take a look at 323327?22:29
superm1BUG 32332722:29
ubottuBug 323327 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/323327 is private22:29
slangaseksoren: it's not justifiable in terms of the relative volume of DVD vs CD use, and DVDs take a lot longer to QA.  This is no different than what was done for dapper point releases.22:30
superm1kees, oh fun fun22:30
superm1kees, should be an easy enough fix at least22:30
sorenslangasek: Alright. Thanks.22:30
keessuperm1: yeah, ran out of time to test it while sprinting last week22:30
superm1kees, did you have a diff to test with already then?22:31
sorenslangasek: Is this written down in a policy somewhere?22:31
keessuperm1: nope, wanted to reproduce for sure22:31
superm1kees, ah.  well i've  got an AMD box at home, i'll try'n double check it with later on then22:31
keessuperm1: cool, thx22:32
slangaseksoren: I don't believe so22:32
sorenslangasek: Alrighty. No worries.22:32
* soren calls it a day22:33
lamontwhere did dev-mapper go in hardy, I wonder?22:53
lamontmore to the point, how do I get lvm to just shut up and build the lv?22:53
IntuitiveNipplelvm2 ?22:54
lamontya22:54
IntuitiveNippleI use lvm2/crypsetup on Hardy... it ain't gone anywhere I know about!22:54
IntuitiveNippledm-mod loaded?22:55
anderskI have been waiting for over two months for a MOTU sponsor in bug 303112, which would be a regression in Jaunty.  Is anyone willing to look at this?23:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 303112 in openafs "Please upgrade to 1.4.8 for Jaunty kernel 2.6.28 support" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30311223:00
lamontIntuitiveNipple: that'd be the spelling I hadn't thought of.  thanks23:04
IntuitiveNipplehehehe23:06
IntuitiveNippleIt confused me in Jaunty... now it is built-in!23:06
james_wmathiaz: you'll have to add "--builder 'debuild -S -vwhatever'" I'm afraid23:42
mathiazjames_w: yeah - slangasek gave me the same tip and it works well! :)23:43
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying

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