[00:22] <dtchen> vorian: http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/2008olf.odp
[00:41] <vorian> thanks dtchen
[00:42] <vorian> ScottK: kpov is up up and away
[00:43] <vorian> ScottK: what news on bug 323266?
[00:43] <ScottK> Was I working on that?
[00:43] <vorian> yeah, it shows you assigned to it :)
[00:43] <vorian> i can pick it up if you like
[00:44] <ScottK> Please
[00:44] <vorian> you got it
[00:44]  * ScottK totally forgot.
[00:44] <ScottK> Thanks.
[01:01] <lex79> ScottK:  can you subscribe this?
[01:01] <lex79> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kvpnc/+bug/326679
[01:04] <vorian> lex79: what are you wanting to do?
[01:04] <vorian> meh
[01:10] <vorian> lex79: what are you trying to do with that bug?
[01:11] <lex79> vorian: I updated the package
[01:11] <lex79> kvpnc in repository is for kde3
[01:11] <lex79> this version is works in kde4
[01:12] <vorian> hmmm
[01:12] <lex79> is works -> bad english :)
[01:12] <vorian> hehe, me too
[01:12] <lex79> yeah :)
[01:14] <vorian> lex79: so it now is made to work with kde4?
[01:14] <lex79> vorian: yes
[01:14] <vorian> or it's KDE 3, and works with KDE 4
[01:14] <lex79> no
[01:14] <lex79> it's kde4
[01:14] <vorian> ok
[01:14] <lex79> and works with kde4 :)
[01:15] <vorian> lex79: for the future: use "new upstream release" instead of "sync-request"
[01:15] <vorian> sync request is used when we sync a package directly from Debian (unchanged)
[01:15] <vorian> secondly
[01:16] <vorian> erm, nevermind :)
[01:16] <lex79> vorian: pe3k opened this bug
[01:16] <lex79> no me :)
[01:17]  * vorian looks
[01:19] <lex79> maybe this update, fix this bug:
[01:19] <lex79> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kvpnc/+bug/237577
[01:20] <vorian> lex79: that is debian specific - (the patch in the package)
[01:22] <vorian> lex79: did you test it to see if it solves that bug?
[01:22] <lex79> vorian: yes
[01:22] <lex79> now works great
[01:22] <vorian> and does it?  :)
[01:23] <lex79> you can build the package and see
[01:23] <vorian> All i'm saying, if it closes a bug, you should close the bug in the changelog :)
[01:25] <lex79> yes, but I'm not sure, so I didn't close the bug :)
[01:25] <lex79> in changelog
[01:25]  * vorian tries
[01:26] <lex79> vorian: thanks I send you a kiss from Italy LoL  :)
[01:28] <vorian> lex79: hmmm
[01:28] <vorian> I got a segfault
[01:28] <vorian> care to take a closer look at that package?
[01:29] <lex79> uhm in my system works
[01:29] <lex79> You have a segfault when start application?
[01:30] <vorian> lex79: and you have to use your sudo password
[01:30] <lex79> I'm trying now and works
[01:31] <vorian> hmm, got another
[01:32] <lex79> vorian: when? when it start?
[01:32] <vorian> I was using the wizzzzard, creating a ssh connection
[01:33] <vorian> You have some obsolete package versions installed. Please upgrade the following packages and check if the problem still occurs:
[01:33] <vorian> libgcc1, libpq5, libasound2, libstdc++6, libpulse0, gcc-4.3-base
[01:44] <ghostcube> btw kvpnc crashes if importing an existing cisco profile
[01:47] <lex79> ghostcube: yes, https://gna.org/bugs/?12779
[01:48] <ghostcube> lex79, hmm it doesnt freeze it just get killed here
[01:49] <ghostcube> can i run gdb against a super user pid
[01:49] <ghostcube> oO
[01:51] <lex79> vorian: the problem is in upstream, I try to build kvpnc from sources and same issue "core dumped"
[01:52] <lex79> I can try to take 0.9.1-rc2 instead 0.9.1 stable
[01:57] <lex79> uhmm no...it's for kde3
[02:03] <ghostcube> lex79, hmm i have a backtrace for the import crash if you want it
[02:07] <lex79> you can also send here: https://gna.org/bugs/?group=kvpnc
[02:08] <lex79> :)
[04:34]  * ScottK starts doing plasmoid-foo -> plasma-widget-foo (doing quickaccess first).
[04:34]  * ScottK considers alchohol step 0.
[04:34] <nhandler> ScottK: Are we just renaming them? Or are there more changes that need to be done?
[04:37] <ScottK> Renaming source and binary, adding appropriate conflicts/replaces, and adding transitional packages if they existed in Intrepid.
[04:38] <nhandler> ScottK: Is there a bug/wiki page to track this?
[04:38] <ScottK> nhandler: No.  We should probably have one (wiki I would say).
[04:40] <nhandler> scottk: I'm about to head to bed, otherwise I would make one. As for the actual packages, I'll try and take care of spellcheck and playwolf (the two I packaged).
[04:40] <ScottK> K
[04:49] <ScottK> vorian: You still up?
[04:49] <rgreening> allo
[04:49] <vorian> ScottK: kind of
[04:50] <ScottK> Allo.
[04:50] <ScottK> Looking for people to dive in and rename stuff.
[04:50] <vorian> k
[04:50] <vorian> do we have a list?
[04:50] <ScottK> I just did quickaccess.
[04:50] <vorian> ok
[04:51] <ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/116315/
[04:51] <ScottK> vorian: ^^ List
[04:51] <ScottK> Less quickaccess it's the output of reverse-build-depends libplasma-dev|grep plasmoid
[04:52] <vorian> ScottK: ok, i'll start at the bottom
[04:52] <ScottK> Great.
[04:52] <ScottK> rgreening: Want some?
[04:53] <ScottK> vorian: Did you see nhandler's note about the ones he'd do?
[04:53] <vorian> no ...
[04:53] <vorian> yes
[04:53]  * vorian just scrolled up
[04:53] <ScottK> OK
[04:53] <ScottK> Don't do those.
[04:53] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:55] <rgreening> ScottK: I'm currently working on Kpackagekit fixes
[04:55] <ScottK> rgreening: That's definitely more important
[04:56] <rgreening> I'm trying to get the "simplified" Add/Remove programs view from Adept_manager/Adept into Kpackagekit. Struggling a bit... but that's mostly due to my C++ rustiness
[05:00]  * ScottK hands rgreening a can of oil.
[05:00] <rgreening> ty
[05:00] <rgreening> ScottK: know any c++?
[05:01] <ScottK> Nope.  It's one of the beauties of KDE.  I can't actually fix stuff so I don't need to feel guilty.
[05:01] <ScottK> It's one reason I was so happy to see Guidance go away.  I do know Python, so I could fix that.
[05:02] <rgreening> lol
[05:02] <ScottK> vorian: My policy for this is no transitional package if it wasn't in intrepid.  Users of development releases are supposed to keep up with this stuff.
[05:02] <ScottK> vorian: How say you?
[05:02] <rgreening> I have two constructors, and I want one to call the other with an extra parameter
[05:03] <rgreening> stumped
[05:03] <vorian> ScottK: agreed
[05:03] <ScottK> Excellent.
[05:05] <ScottK> vorian: Looks like descriptions will need some adjustment too.
[05:05] <ScottK> nhandler: ^^^
[05:06] <vorian> s/plasmoid/plasma widget/ ?
[05:08] <ScottK> Yes
[05:08] <vorian> plasma-widget-windowslist finished
[05:08] <vorian> on to wifi
[05:08] <ScottK> Oh man, don't make me race you, I've been drinking.
[05:08] <vorian> haha
[05:11] <ScottK> vorian: I'm checking for new upstream releases as I go too.
[05:13] <vorian> alrighty
[05:27] <vorian> wifi done
[05:28] <vorian> ScottK: here is the updated list http://paste.ubuntu.com/116329/
[05:28]  * vorian sleeps
[05:29] <ScottK> vorian: Thanks.
[05:29] <vorian> no problemo
[05:29] <vorian> i have to get ready for a day of but chewing from my boss on the morrow
[05:30] <ScottK> Lovely.
[05:31] <ScottK> I'd have thought lack of sleep and a hangover would be perfect for that.
[05:31] <ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/116332/ is updated even more.
[06:06]  * a|wen starts downloading hardy.1 i386 to find out if the oem issues really is a regression
[06:07] <yuriy> rgreening: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/ctors.html#faq-10.3
[06:11] <a|wen> ScottK: apart from oem, which i just need to check is a regression or not, wubi is the only thing missing on i386
[06:21] <ScottK> a|wen: Great.  I keep looking for someone with windows ....
[06:21] <ScottK> No one confesses to have it.
[06:21] <ScottK> Not even the great Vista lover himself.
[06:25] <a|wen> yeah, it is not that widespread, he
[06:26]  * a|wen confesses to have windows xp on a comp of mine... but it is more than 3500 miles away locked away in a cellar
[06:28] <ScottK> OK.  New topic has the status on the plasmoid rename.  Somone else's turn.
[06:28]  * ScottK is off to bed.
[06:29] <a|wen> nn ScottK
[09:44] <Riddell> morning Kubuntu
[09:45] <rickspencer3> morning Mr. Riddell
[09:50] <Tonio_> morning everyone :)
[09:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: have you seen the kcometen4 screensaver ? it's a must have, really
[09:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can package it if you're interested
[09:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: I've seen amarok sometimes stoping at the end of a song and then unable to play anything...
[09:54] <Tonio_> you have to quit and restart
[09:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I didn't have this problem before your last upload... don't know if there is a link or not since I can't trace what happens...
[09:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm on contrib on friday... I think I'll try to work on a starting kubuntu qa process, as we discussed quickly at the UDS
[09:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: never need kcometen4
[09:59] <Riddell> hmm, that's not right
[09:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: never seen kcometen4
[10:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: also I've not seen amarok stopping at the end of a song, do you have the collection working?
[10:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll put a little package on my ppa :) that's just fancy btw, but it's really very beautifull :)
[10:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah that's inside my collection btw
[10:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: it happens quite often.... sometimes it won't even quit and I have to kill the process...
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: if you want to test this little screensaver, you can install it from my ppa :)
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm in love with it
[11:38] <Riddell> ~twitter update there's a thin line between blending fruit to make a nutricious smoothie and blending fruit to make baby food
[11:38] <kubotu> status updated
[11:45]  * Nightrose waves @ Riddell and Tonio_
[11:45] <Tonio_> hey Nightrose :)
[11:45] <Nightrose> how are you Tonio_?
[11:46] <Tonio_> still a bit sick.... but feeling a bit better :)
[11:46] <Tonio_> Nightrose: at fosdem arrived with a 39° fever....
[11:46] <Nightrose> meh
[11:47] <Tonio_> Nightrose: Riddell took a photo from me sleeping in the middle of a conference :)
[11:47] <Tonio_> that was unfair hehe
[11:47] <Nightrose> hehe yea seen it
[11:47] <Nightrose> fregl and I walked around brussles yesterday before driving back home - that was fun
[11:47] <Nightrose> the drive back home not so much
[11:47] <Sput> train++
[11:48] <Tonio_> :)
[11:49] <Nightrose> police stopped us for a control, it was snowing and raining all the time and there were many traffic jams because of accidents on the highway
[11:49] <Sput> train++
[11:49] <Sput> :)
[11:49]  * Nightrose still wonders why were were stopped by police though
[11:49] <Sput> I bet it took you more than the 4 hours it took me to get from brussels to KA :)
[11:49]  * Nightrose stabs Sput
[11:50] <Sput> I also bet you didn't have a restaurant with warm foods and cold beers in walking distance for the whole trip :
[11:50] <Sput> :P
[11:50] <Nightrose> pffft
[11:50] <Nightrose> i had a nice travel companion though :P
[11:50] <Nightrose> and only one of them!
[11:50] <Sput> well, you could've concentrated much better on each other if one of you didn't have to drive!
[11:51] <Nightrose> *lol*
[11:51] <Sput> I love traveling between Frankfurt and Cologne with 300 km/h alongside a highway that's clogged with cars :)
[11:54] <Tonio_> Sput: since you're there, I've had a lot of question about quassel at work :)
[11:55] <Sput> well, best to ask them in #quassel :)
[11:55] <Tonio_> Sput: everyone's impressed, but lots of people noticed an issue with non-existent shortcuts for common tasks (aka ctrl+w -> close buffer...)
[11:55] <Sput> hmm, shortcuts need tons of work
[11:55] <Tonio_> Sput: yeah sure, but I don't wanna ping if that's a known issue and being in the work :) if needed to ping, I'll do, of course :)
[11:56] <ScottK> vorian: I looked at plasmoid-flickr and I'm a bit confused where you got the update as the upstream page listed in debian/control has version 0.1, but you updated it to 0.3.1?
[11:59] <Sput> Tonio_: we'll get to improving shortcuts, not sure when though...
[11:59]  * Sime waves at Nightrose
[11:59] <Nightrose> heya Sime :)
[12:00] <Tonio_> Sput: perfectly fine :)
[12:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: is there a reason we have no phonon-backend-vlc in the archives ?
[12:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: could be usefull for legal reasons in some countries (including france...)
[12:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, although it can't be part of the phonon source package since vlc is in multiverse
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah, but external packaging, even in multiverse, could be usefull
[12:27] <Riddell> go ahead
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: testing :)
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: for MS formats support, vlc is the only legal option here for example :)
[12:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: and I guess everywhere, btw, since w32codecs is hardly deployable in corp environment :)
[12:28] <Sput> or on a amd64 box
[12:29] <Riddell> vlc isn't a subscritute for w32codecs, w32codecs is only for stuff where there's no free implementation, if there's a free implementation then it can also be used by xine or mplayer
[12:35] <smarter> and there's w64codecs too :p
[12:36] <nhandler> For the plasmoid renaming, after modifying the package and uploading, do I have to file a removal request for the old version of the plasmoid?
[12:46] <nhandler> scottk: ping
[12:57] <nhandler> scottk: Is it necessary to file removal requests for the old versions of the plasmoids?
[13:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: looks like the current git is unlikelly to build... I'll try to ping the vlc maintainer...
[13:07] <ScottK> nhandler: Yes, but let's get them all done and then make one request.
[13:08] <Quintasa1> nhandler: where I should submit renamed package?
[13:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: about vlc vs xine, I agree with you, xine could read it, but the fact is that there are proprietary formats that only vlc can handle the opensource way...
[13:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: cause xine supports w32codecs and then nobody cares an opensource implementation for those
[13:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm not happy with that, but this is real life in corp env :)
[13:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have to do with what exists, and I'm stick with VLC atm
[13:30] <Tonio_> s/stick/stuck/
[13:33] <Tonio_> at least vlc is now QT, better than nothing :)
[13:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: a simple example is wma support, how do you do with xine and without w32codecs -> no way...
[13:34] <Tonio_> vlc handles them
[13:37] <ghostcube> Tonio_: but vlc isnt very stable
[13:37] <ghostcube> its still buggy as hell
[13:38] <ghostcube> xine works much better
[13:39] <Tonio_> ghostcube: yep, but for example, when the french parliament wants linux, and wma support, what would you do ? ;)
[13:40] <Tonio_> ghostcube: and vlc isn't that unstable, we're using it for 2 years and had maybe 5 or 6 bug reports for it
[13:40] <Tonio_> ghostcube: I wouldn't say you about thunderbird, for example :)
[13:40] <ghostcube> lol ok 1:0 for u
[13:40] <rgreening> seele, Riddell: I am close to getting a working Add/Remove (simplified) for KpackageKit... very close...
[13:41] <jjesse__> yay
[13:41] <ghostcube> Tonio_: but it has probs with peg files
[13:41] <ghostcube> mpeg
[13:41] <Tonio_> ghostcube: I'll always use xine on my own, but phonon + vlc is, at the moment, a great opportunity for corp environement, before people switch to open formats
[13:41] <ghostcube> Tonio_: ok thats true :)
[13:41] <Tonio_> ghostcube: switching formats is a lot longuer and harder job than switching the OS :)
[13:42] <ghostcube> hehe
[13:42] <ghostcube> if your pc is fast enough :D
[13:42] <Riddell> rgreening: we don't believe you until you supply screenshots :)
[13:42] <Tonio_> and that because for a parliamenter, if linux can't handle a specific format, that's a bug
[13:42] <ghostcube> Tonio_: sure like politicans always do blaming things they dont really get :D
[13:42] <Tonio_> on the long term, they finally understand the real cause, and tend to understand, which is really good on the politics side, but that's a long, long story
[13:43] <Tonio_> ghostcube: not only politicians, *normal* users :)
[13:43] <ghostcube> oh ok :)
[13:43] <Tonio_> ghostcube: users just consider opening a file should work by a click
[13:43] <rgreening> Riddell: lol
[13:43] <Tonio_> ghostcube: and they're not wrong imho
[13:44] <ghostcube> Tonio_: no thats true that vlc can handle it natively
[13:44] <ghostcube> but they still need to get the nightly build server back up and running
[13:44] <ghostcube> :D
[13:44] <Tonio_> ghostcube: but vlc UI is bad, so for example phonon-backend-vlc + amarok + kaffeine/dragonplayer
[13:44] <Tonio_> ghostcube: that would make a legal desktop, a lot more consistent and well integrated
[13:44] <ghostcube> Tonio_: one thing thats better on vlc is the mozilla plugin cause it works with midori too
[13:45] <ghostcube> Tonio_: the prob for vlc is the advanced GUI
[13:45] <ghostcube> u get lost in this one if you dont know what to do
[13:45] <Tonio_> ghostcube: and for this web problem, you then have phonon-backend-vlc + konqueror/webkit + kmplayer
[13:45] <Tonio_> and you're done
[13:45] <Tonio_> ghostcube: now you see my point :)
[13:45] <Tonio_> and still consistent web browsing with a good plugin and a legal engine
[13:45] <ghostcube> hmm yep ok makes sense
[13:45] <ghostcube> :f
[13:45] <ghostcube> :D
[13:46] <Tonio_> but for that we need the backend in the repos, hehehe :)
[13:46] <raphink> hi guys
[13:46] <ghostcube> Tonio_: isnt the vlc backend there i thought its available by apt-cache search oO
[13:46] <Tonio_> ghostcube: there isn't that many linux desktop in corp environments, and very few people know the real problems in there
[13:46] <Tonio_> ghostcube: was droped with 4.1 or 4.2
[13:46] <ghostcube> oh
[13:47] <Tonio_> seele: talking about that, I reallize we discussed a potential conf for the next akademy.... would you still be interested in this ?
[13:47] <Tonio_> seele: the present discussion is exactly what I could be talking about :)
[13:47] <rgreening> Riddell: here http://imagebin.ca/view/R25FVK.html and here http://imagebin.ca/view/JqVavc.html
[13:48] <rgreening> Riddell: the empty box on the left in second shot needs to be populated (working that now).
[13:49] <rgreening> Riddell: also, wording for Software Management needs to be changed/updated to show two different purposes (Package vs Application)
[13:49] <rgreening> seele: ^^
[13:49] <rgreening> believe me now Riddell :) muhahahah
[14:09] <seele> Riddell: not use enough water/yogurt/ice in your smoothie?
[14:10] <Riddell> rgreening: yay
[14:10] <Riddell> seele: none at all actually
[14:10] <rgreening> :P
[14:10] <seele> Riddell: that's probably why it was baby food :P
[14:10] <Tonio_> hum... I'm sick of those X crashes...
[14:11] <jjesse> my wife has just started making our own baby food for my son.... most of it looks disgusting
[14:11] <seele> rgreening: what about Applications and Packages -- Management? or will that be too long?
[14:11] <seele> Tonio_: i dont know what you are talking about. what conf?
[14:12] <vorian> ScottK: it seems there are two flickr plasmoids :/
[14:12] <rgreening> dunno seele
[14:12] <vorian> ScottK: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Flickr+On+Plasma?content=94800
[14:12] <Tonio_> seele: when we discussed those corp things and problem, you told me it would be very nice giving a talk about that at next akademy :)
[14:13] <Tonio_> seele: sorry I used the bad word s/conference/talk :)
[14:13] <Tonio_> seele: don't you remember ?
[14:13] <seele> oh yes, i do, but i meant for you to give that talk :)
[14:14] <Tonio_> seele: I know :) the thing is that I had lots of work recently and couldn't spend time thinking about that :)
[14:14] <seele> Tonio_: btw.. i hear the weather sucks in paris. i'm surprised you have power now
[14:14] <Tonio_> seele: I'm sirprised too :)
[14:14] <seele> Tonio_: well the call for papers hasn't been released yet so you have plenty of time to think about it :)
[14:15] <Tonio_> seele: great, I'll consider this then, cause the discussion we just had with ghostcube makes me think those issues are sometimes not understood :)
[14:16] <ghostcube> Tonio_: yeah if u live in germany like me its normal to first of all install th w64codecs
[14:16] <ghostcube> :D
[14:16] <ghostcube> then start the rest
[14:16] <Tonio_> is that legal ? :)
[14:16] <ghostcube> so i dont really have noticed its not always the best to do so
[14:16] <ghostcube> Tonio_: yep
[14:17] <Tonio_> how can it be ? the microsoft licence explicitely forbids that... was this point judged in a court ?
[14:17] <ghostcube> the only one thats discussed is libdvdcss
[14:17] <ghostcube> its not forbidden to use the codecs here
[14:17] <Sput> which microsoft license? :P
[14:17] <ghostcube> never seen any process talking about
[14:17] <Sput> the one I never agreed to?
[14:17] <ghostcube> lol
[14:17] <Tonio_> Sput: yeah, that one :)
[14:18]  * Sput notes that EULAs are illegal and void in the EU
[14:18]  * jussi01 huggles Sput
[14:18] <Sput> except if explicitly agreed on pre-deal
[14:18] <Tonio_> ghostcube: I can't imagin using the wma.dll for example is legal anywhere outside of the windows context...
[14:18] <Riddell> there's no copying licence
[14:18] <ghostcube> hmm no idea but its not illegal here to use it
[14:18] <Sput> licenses for use are void anyway
[14:19] <Sput> they can only cover copyright
[14:19] <Riddell> w32codecs don't have copying licence
[14:19] <davmor2> Riddell, ScottK: all the hardy.2 tests should be finished soon
[14:19] <ghostcube> all german linux users first install the w32codecs without you wont be able to watch any web tv here all wmv :D
[14:19] <ScottK> vorian: So I guess the package needs to be updated to reflect that one.
[14:20] <Sput> Riddell: well, they are published by mplayer, so not a downstream problem, is it?
[14:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: the package, but the files in it, at least the MS ones, are covered by the MS one
[14:20] <vorian> ScottK: yeah, i'm working on it now since i'm the one that changed it
[14:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: we have an advocate at work that looked at that very deeply
[14:20] <davmor2> Sput: I think you'll find that Microsoft would still take you to court if they found you to be in breech of their EULA
[14:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: you can use and copy them if :
[14:20] <Tonio_> you have paid a Windows licence
[14:20] <Sput> davmor2: not the first time they'd lose that one... shrinkwrapped licenses are not valid in the EU
[14:20] <Tonio_> AND you are not using 2 copies of the same file
[14:21] <Tonio_> so bying windows, not installing it, and use w32codecs, yes that's legal
[14:21] <Sput> as soon as you have bought something, there is no way for the seller to impose additional restrictions on the deal
[14:21] <Tonio_> as long as you have a windows licence per computer running w32codecs.
[14:21] <ScottK> davmor2: Great.  I really appreciate all the help.
[14:22] <ScottK> vorian: OK.
[14:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: same with ie4linux for example.... that's illegal except if you have a windows licence.... that sucks, I know :)
[14:22] <Riddell> Sput: if the files don't have a copying licence of course its a downstream problem
[14:23] <ghostcube> davmor2: microsoft cant do anything inside EU they arent allowed to take you to court
[14:23] <ghostcube> even if you miswatch eula and use the libraries on linux
[14:23] <ghostcube> the MS Eula is pure not accepted in EU
[14:23] <Sput> Riddell: hmm true, mplayer seems to not add anything to their files
[14:28] <Tonio_> ghostcube: that's probably true in germany but not in france :)
[14:28] <ghostcube> yes thats true too lol
[14:28] <ghostcube> :D
[14:28] <ghostcube> but i know how to get an french win 98 to login as admin rofl
[14:28] <ghostcube> just change the speach
[14:28] <ghostcube> :D
[14:28] <ghostcube> its not allowed to crypt the passes
[14:28] <ghostcube> :D
[14:29] <ghostcube> something strange isnt it :)
[14:31] <ghostcube> i think the french pc politic isnt the best they ever done in the past haha
[14:35] <Riddell> ghostcube: there's nothing difficult or locale specific about w32codecs, they're proprietry software without a copying licence
[14:37] <shtylman> will guidance-power-manager still be in jaunty? and if so, with whom do I speak about a proposed change I have to the battery display? Thanks in advance
[14:37] <ghostcube> Riddell: i know was just joking a bit
[14:37] <ghostcube> :)
[14:47] <Tonio_> shtylman: jaunty will use powerdevil by default
[14:47] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: guidance will still be available for install, but it won't be installed by default
[14:47] <Tonio_> shtylman: afaik guidance-power-manager is still in universe, but due to the change, I'll probably stay poorly maintained in the future...
[14:48] <shtylman> Tonio_: will powerdevel also be the frontend? or just the backend? I am reading on kde-apps that it will feature a plasmoid "soon", where can I find more information?
[14:49] <Tonio_> shtylman: the plasmoid is already in 4.2 and works like a charm :)
[14:50] <shtylman> Tonio_: I have 4.2 installed, what would the plasmoid be called? cause I have 4.2 installed over ibex and guidance still keeps popping up
[14:51] <Tonio_> battery monitor
[14:51] <shtylman> Tonio_: I hacked at guidance to change the battery display from the default (3 discrete bars) to a continuous display, and want to see if the new plasmoid can do the same
[14:52] <Tonio_> shtylman: the plasmoid does it ;)
[14:52] <shtylman> Tonio_: excellent news!
[14:52] <Tonio_> :)
[15:03] <shtylman> Tonio_: so I popped open my laptop to try the battery monitor instead, and it too seems to break the battery full indication into sections versus being continuous (is this in a new version that isn't out yet)?
[15:04] <davmor2> Riddell, ScottK: test done :)
[15:05] <Tonio_> shtylman: it has 4 bars, but the gradiant of the bar is proportional to the battery level
[15:07] <shtylman> Tonio_: I see, thats not very obvious to me, and I could easily see others missing it. Is that plasmoid writting in python like guidance was? or something else? and where could I grab the source for it (kde repos?), I would like to make it be a continuous battery display. Thanks
[15:09] <Sput> powerdevil++
[15:09] <Sput> also powerdevil can display a percentage
[15:10] <Sput> on hover or always
[15:10] <shtylman> Sput: yea I know about that, but I would like to make it have a continuous battery display as well..good for small icons where the percent text isn't as easy to see
[15:11] <shtylman> The battery percentage is inherently contnuous, at least integer step, and I don't see a benefit to breaking it up into thirds or fourths, that just hides the true information (imho)
[15:12] <Tonio_> shtylman: it's C++
[15:12] <shtylman> Tonio_: cool, I know that too (even better than python) :)
[15:14] <Tonio_> shtylman: see with upstream first if he is interested in the change :)
[15:15] <shtylman> Tonio_: how would I go about doing that? is there a particular person I want to talk to? Also, I am going to make the change for myself first (just to have), and can send along a patch to whomever as an example, would that be a better thing to do?
[15:17] <Tonio_> shtylman: the applet developer, probably :)
[15:17] <Tonio_> apt-get source powerdevil and look in the sources what is the maintainer e-mail address
[15:18] <shtylman> Tonio_: thanks a bunch...will do
[15:18] <Tonio_> shtylman: you're welcome
[15:19] <smarter> JontheEchidna: what's that plasmoid rename thingy?
[15:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: thinking about the topic, should we rename all plasmoid* packages to plasma-widget* ? thinking about pnm for that :)
[15:21] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes that's what the topic says
[15:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, since some of them were only existing in jaunty, should we provide the old name or not ?
[15:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: not needed for intrepid -> jaunty, but for our users,could be usefull I think, no ?
[15:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: or do we want a standard conflicts/replace ?
[15:27] <Riddell> shrug
[15:27] <Riddell> I probably wouldn't bother
[15:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, that was my first plan, but I wanted to be sure about you on that point :)
[15:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll ping you when plasma-widget-network-manager wil be in NEW
[15:31] <scarabeus> hi, do you ship any patches for kopete that add some functionality?
[15:32] <scarabeus> we in gentoo have this bug https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258428
[15:32] <scarabeus> and i dunno if we forget something
[15:32] <scarabeus> or it is that you add something special
[15:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, we probably don't want our users to complain there is a conflict with the old one so I'll keep a conflict for couple of weeks in the package, waiting for people to install it
[15:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: the jaunty users I mean...
[15:41] <JontheEchidna> scarabeus: I think we ship a pretty much untouched kopete, no patches aside from a string change in the "now listening" preferences
[15:42] <scarabeus> JontheEchidna: mhm, thanks, that means there is some magic elsewhere :]
[15:42] <a|wen> scarabeus: in the help menu item there is some items pointing to launchpad, that you probably don't have ... but apart from that no
[15:43] <a|wen> scarabeus: he seems to be talking about the shortcut configuration, and that is an upstream item
[15:44] <scarabeus> hm, we ship it unchanged  i will ask for screenie and see what he means exactly then
[15:44] <scarabeus> thanks very much for points
[15:52] <rgreening> Riddell, seele, Tonio_: getting close now. I have it displaying icons (not centered/sized properly, but there at least). http://imagebin.ca/view/swfd6LbN.html
[15:53] <Riddell> rgreening: wow
[15:53] <Tonio_> rgreening: superb work :)
[15:54] <ghostcube> [ot] songbird coders are a bit strange oO
[15:54] <ghostcube> :D
[15:54] <rgreening> ty both. It's getting there.... Hopefully today/tomorrow to have a patch ready for submission.
[15:55] <rgreening> my C++ is slowly coming back to me :P
[15:56] <shtylman> Tonio_: fyi .. the plasmoid code is in the kdebase-workspace source package, not the powerdevil package. The battery plasmoid and powerdevil are a part of kde now so it seems.
[15:57] <Tonio_> shtylman: which makes sense :)
[15:57] <ghostcube> hmm question if i build compiz++ with cmake it will detect the qmake by default if alternative is set correct ?
[15:58]  * Sput huggles jussi01 back
[15:58] <smarter> like any of use actually uses compiz++ when we have our shiny kwin :p
[15:59] <jussi01> :)
[16:02] <rgreening> seele, Riddell, Tonio_: I was thinkng on moving the text from under to icon to a tooltip instead in the package categories. thoughts? or should I just leave it as it and center the icons?
[16:03] <Tonio_> rgreening: hum... I'd keep the text...
[16:03] <rgreening> Tonio_: ok, then off to center.
[16:04] <Tonio_> rgreening: you can wait for the expert's opinion :) I'm not a usability specialist
[16:05] <rgreening> hehe
[16:11] <agateau> rgreening: the second list needs more horizontal space
[16:11] <agateau> it should center then
[16:12] <rgreening> agateau: ty. I need to set proper minimum and expanding attributes in the .ui
[16:15] <agateau> yes
[16:15] <Riddell> rgreening: the text is important there, you can't work out what it means from the icon alone, I'd leave it under the icon,
[16:16] <rgreening> Riddell: tooltip could provide, but I'll leave under icon as suggested.
[16:18] <davmor2> Riddell: I'm getting incomplete Language Support on smoketest
[16:20] <Riddell> rgreening: relying on tooltips never works
[16:20] <rgreening> Riddell, Tonio_: who is proficient in Qt .ui file settings? I need some assistance I think
[16:21] <Riddell> rgreening: have you got this installing and removing software yet?
[16:22] <rgreening> Riddell: oh, that all works (as I re-used the existing code). WHat it doesn't do yet is simplify the right hand side where package selection occurs. That's next. I need to read the app-install-data desktop files for applications/categories and show only those.
[16:23] <Riddell> rgreening: ok great
[16:24] <rgreening> :)
[16:24] <seele> rgreening: you mean in the left navigation?
[16:24] <rgreening> Riddell: This is actually a lot easier that I thought it would be :P
[16:24] <rgreening> seele: wrt which question? :) cause I said a lot :P
[16:25] <rgreening> seele: the icon text?
[16:25] <seele> yes
[16:25] <seele> sorry, i'm in between classes. i can't pay atention to irc
[16:25] <rgreening> seele: yes. In the app categories, text is under the icons. Is that what you prefer?
[16:25] <rgreening> seele: I assume yes.
[16:26] <seele> yes
[16:29] <rgreening> seele: ok.
[16:29] <agateau> rgreening: i can probably help with .ui
[16:30] <rgreening> agateau: ok, I'll paste my .ui.. 1 sec
[16:35] <rgreening> agateau: I can't seem to paste the file to paste.ubuntu.com.. 1 sec
[16:36] <agateau> no pb
[16:37] <rgreening> agateau: ok, try this... http://pastebin.ca/raw/1332859
[16:38] <rgreening> This is the Application Icon widget: <widget class="QListWidget" name="groupsLW">
[16:38] <rgreening> I need this to resize tightly around the Icons/Text
[16:38] <rgreening> and let the package list to the right of it expand agateau
[16:39] <davmor2> Has konqueror slowed down?  planet.ubuntu.com seems to take ages to fully render
[16:39] <agateau> ok
[16:39] <smarter> rgreening: do you plan to backport your qt4.5 packages to intrepid?
[16:39] <smarter> rgreening: I'm not really motivated to upgrade to jaunty atm :p
[16:40]  * agateau looks at the .ui
[16:40] <rgreening> smarter: I'm not sure what the plan for Qt4.5 is now. KDE Plasma team does not want anyone to use KDE 4.2 with Qt4.5.. apparantly issues in Plasma
[16:40] <smarter> rgreening: yup but the trolls want them to use it :p
[16:40] <smarter> rgreening: I think we'll put it in backports
[16:40] <smarter> with 4.2.x
[16:40] <smarter> and/or kubuntu-experimental
[16:41] <rgreening> I am planning on finishing my build (merge with debian changes) and then I can bp to Intrepid easy enough.
[16:41] <smarter> cool
[16:41] <smarter> agateau: thanks for Gwenview! :P
[16:42] <agateau> smarter: my pleasure :)
[16:42] <smarter> (also, you on this channel probably increases the rate of French people here of 33% :p)
[16:42] <rgreening> Tonio_: I am really liking packagekit
[16:43] <Tonio_> rgreening: hehe
[16:43] <rgreening> mon dieu. ce n'est possible, nes pas?
[16:43] <rgreening> my french is really terrible, so I add on 0.001%
[16:43] <smarter> rgreening: :D
[16:43] <Tonio_> rgreening: :D
[16:45] <agateau> hehe
[16:45] <rgreening> eu sait, eu fala Portugues se faz favor
[16:45] <rgreening> hehe
[16:45] <agateau> rgreening: I remember writing some code to compute the minimum width of a QListView in icon mode
[16:45] <agateau> I need to dig it
[16:46] <rgreening> OMG. that would be cool
[16:46] <rgreening> agateau: though, shouldn't it be achievable via the ui?
[16:46] <agateau> rgreening: unfortunately, I didn't manage to get it to work reliably from the ui
[16:47] <rgreening> ah
[16:47] <rgreening> me neither it would seem
[16:48] <agateau> rgreening: I found it
[16:48] <agateau> http://trac.qutecom.org/browser/libs/qtutil/src/WidgetUtils.cpp
[16:48] <agateau> you get the width with computeListViewMinimumWidth()
[16:48] <agateau> and set it with setFixedWidth()
[16:48] <agateau> oups, the FIXME probably suggest some work
[16:50] <rgreening> agateau: so I only need the compute function right
[16:50] <agateau> yes
[16:50] <rgreening> ok, I can try that
[16:51] <agateau> about the FIXME: you should only need to call option.decorationPosition = QStyleOption::Top
[16:51] <agateau> err, QStyleOptionViewItem
[16:52] <smarter> heh, when I heard "minimum width of a QListView", I thought malloc(sizeof((QListView)), I must be doing too much low level stuff :p
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> heh
[16:54] <glatzor> Tonio_, hello, do you want to ship a later version of kpackagekit?
[16:54] <agateau> :)
[16:54] <Tonio_> glatzor: well, latest versions didn't compile yet....
[16:54] <Tonio_> glatzor: is that better with the latest packagekit upload ?
[16:55] <Tonio_> glatzor: rgreening is writting patches atm, so we'll probably wait for the patches to be finished, since we'll have to port them, I guess :)
[16:55] <glatzor> Tonio_, kpackagekit actually follows the 0.4 branch of PackageKit. but we should stay with 0.3.x
[16:56] <Tonio_> yeah, so we'll probably stay with that one...
[16:56] <Tonio_> glatzor: I'll wait for rgreening patches to be over and then will push the package and update bzr
[16:56] <glatzor> Tonio_, there have been some invasive changes quite late in the 0.3.x release series, since fedora has got a different release cycle
[16:57] <rgreening> Tonio_, glatzor: I should have my stuff done today/tomorrow if all goes well.
[16:57] <Tonio_> glatzor: well kpackagekit just seems to work decently with our current 0.3 version... any problem you noticed/are affraid of ?
[16:58] <glatzor> Tonio_, I wrote to Trever about this and I think we could backport the changes in libpackagekit-qt
[16:58] <Tonio_> glatzor: I'm fine with this as long as this doesn't break kpackagekit :)
[16:58] <Tonio_> glatzor: but a test is always fine
[16:59] <Tonio_> glatzor: what are the changes exactly ?
[17:01] <Tonio_> glatzor: my only concern is that since kpackagekit is now our default manager... and the svn doesn't follow 0.3.x.... well we have to take care at not breaking everything :)
[17:02] <glatzor> Tonio_, It was just an offer that we could backport changes of packagekit-qt from the 0.4 so that you could update kpackagekit to the current svn version
[17:02] <glatzor> Tonio_, I won't introduce any patches by myself :)
[17:03] <Tonio_> glatzor: ah :) I thought you were talking about recent changes in the .3 series...
[17:03] <glatzor> perhaps I was a little bit unclear about this
[17:03] <Tonio_> glatzor: well, as long as it works, and doesn't lack any major feature, maybe it's fine like this, no ?
[17:03] <glatzor> Tonio_, it depends totally on you.
[17:04] <Tonio_> glatzor: I'll not decide this myself, alone :)
[17:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's your feeling about this ?
[17:04] <glatzor> Tonio_, If you don't need any changes in the latest kpackagekit svn we can just keep things as they are
[17:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: keep as it is since it works and seems stable, or try to backport libpackagekit-qt, and use a recent svn snapshot ?
[17:05] <Tonio_> glatzor: well what we need right now is not on svn, it's mostly UI cleaning and usability stuff, that we'll try to get commited later :)
[17:05] <Tonio_> glatzor: but thanks for keeping in touch and taking care about us :)
[17:05] <Tonio_> glatzor: we have quite a few svn snaps and experimental things in kubuntu jaunty right now :)
[17:06] <Tonio_> glatzor: better not changing what works well, imho :)
[17:06] <glatzor> Tonio_, fine.
[17:07] <ScottK> davmor2: Outstanding.
[17:21] <ScottK> If anyone wants to write a Kubuntu 8.04.2 release announcement, feel free.  If not, I'll get to it later today.
[17:46] <jussi01> the links on the iso testing site to the cd downlods for jaunty are borked
[17:47] <Riddell> we're not testing jaunty CDs currently
[17:48] <jussi01> Riddell: Ahh ok then :)
[17:49] <jussi01> Riddell: how is todays daily, do you know? installable?
[17:49] <davmor2> jussi01: Fine ish
[17:50] <jussi01> davmor2: ok, Ill give it a try then :)
[18:01] <a|wen> ScottK: got to test oem on a hardy.1 now; same issues, so i have seen no regressions
[18:26] <rgreening> anyone here have an nVidia card using Xorg 1.5 (like in intrepid)?
[18:53] <Quintasan> Where should I submit renamed plasma packages? To REVU?
[18:54] <Riddell> Quintasan: revu is good yes
[18:54] <Riddell> then poke this channel
[18:54] <ScottK> a|wen: Perfect.
[18:55] <a|wen> so 8.04.2 looks good to go
[18:55] <ScottK> Yep.  Just need to write up a release announcement.
[18:56] <a|wen> thats needed
[18:57] <smarter> what's that rename thingy?
[19:00] <ScottK> smarter: Upstream likes widget and Debian never liked plasmoid, so in agreement with Debian to follow the same naming scheme we are doing plasmoid-foo -> plasma-wdiget-foo on all the current plasmoid packages.
[19:00] <smarter> okay
[19:00]  * smarter changes plasmoid-xbar
[19:01] <ScottK> Excellent.
[19:01]  * smarter would have liked to be notified of it somehow :p
[19:04] <Quintasan> Riddell: poke :3
[19:05] <ScottK> smarter: Writing kubuntu-devel is on my TODO.  Just haven't gotten to it yet.
[19:05] <smarter> ok
[19:05] <Riddell> Quintasan: got a URL?
[19:05] <Quintasan> Riddell: hm? url to the package? nope
[19:07] <Riddell> Quintasan: did you upload to revu?
[19:07] <Quintasan> Riddell: yeah, using dput
[19:07] <Riddell> well let me know what URL it appears at
[19:07] <Quintasan> ok
[19:10] <Quintasan> Riddell: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/plasma-applet-flickr   But it seems I've done something wrong because it didn't upload the orig.tar.gz
[19:10] <Riddell> don't we already have that uploaded?
[19:12] <ScottK> Riddell: It'll need to be rerolled for the new name.
[19:12] <Riddell> I'm sure I just accepted it under the new name
[19:12] <ScottK> Oh
[19:13]  * ScottK goes back to what he was doing.
[19:13] <Riddell> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-widget-flickr
[19:14] <Quintasan> I checked the paste that JontheEchidna posted...
[19:17] <Riddell> a pastebin sdeems the wrong medium for that
[19:18] <Quintasan> Riddell: looks like, are there any packages left for renaming?
[19:19] <cbr> what's a good music player apart from amarok?
[19:19] <Riddell> sorry Quintasan, SEEMS LIKE A WASTED EFFORT :(
[19:20] <Quintasan> Riddell: Not wasted for me, I'm still new to packaging so I consider it as a practice :)
[19:20] <Quintasan> lol
[19:24] <ScottK> Riddell: It would be better in a wiki page, but it was late and we were tired.
[19:27]  * seele oggles at Riddell's caps yelling
[19:27] <Riddell> my server is going mad
[19:30] <ScottK> Riddell: I fiddled the seeds for plasmoid-quickaccess -> plasma-widget-quickaccess.  I left plasmoid-quickaccess (transitional package) in supported.
[19:31] <Riddell> thanks
[19:31] <ScottK> No problem.
[19:31]  * raphink wonders if there is a plasmoid to embed flash apps directly (swf)
[19:33] <Quintasan> vorian: ping
[19:35] <smarter> raphink: video plasmoid with the right phonon backend?
[19:35] <raphink> smarter: it's not for a video
[19:35] <smarter> oh, ok
[19:35] <raphink> just a flash thingy that I use on webpages and would be cool on my desktop
[19:35] <raphink> http://www.biblegateway.com/usage/votd/votd.swf
[19:35] <raphink> if I could embed that on my desktop, that would be great
[19:36] <raphink> maybe a general HTML widget
[19:36] <smarter> yup
[19:36] <smarter> and qt4.5
[19:37] <raphink> ok, so I should wait for Qt4.5 to make its way into KDE :)
[19:37] <raphink> thanks for the answer smarter
[19:37] <smarter> you're welcome ;)
[19:38] <smarter> yes, 4.5 is required for netscape plugins support, like flash
[19:39] <raphink> ok
[19:43] <vorian> Quintasan: pong
[19:43] <Quintasan> vorian: have you checked the skim error I told about?
[19:44] <vorian> Quintasan: i have not
[19:44] <Arby> Riddell: I'm looking at scpk again. I think we should hide the 'New Network Printer' and 'New Special Printer' buttons
[19:44] <Arby> do you agree?
[19:44] <vorian> i will be able to tomorrow
[19:44] <vorian> sorry
[19:45] <Arby> Riddell They don't currently do anything
[19:45] <Quintasan> vorian: no problem :)
[19:48] <cbr> is there a sane way to get global shortcut keys for rhythmbox in kde?
[19:53] <ScottK> Anyone with KDE 4.1 and a local printer that could verify Bug #318866?
[19:53] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure that's the last step needed before we move 4.1.4 to -updates.
[19:58] <Quintasan> hmm how do I force a rebuild in PPA?
[20:11] <ScottK> If it failed to build, there's a web U/I for it.
[20:11] <ScottK> If it built, you need to upload a new revision.
[20:20] <Quintasan> ScottK: thanks
[20:48] <ScottK> ryanakca: The text in https://shipit.kubuntu.org/ still talks about Hardy, but we are supplying Intrepid CDs ...
[20:52]  * ScottK is doing a 8.04.2 release annoucement.
[20:52] <Tm_T> ScottK: thanks <3
[21:04] <ryanakca> ScottK: you'll have to bug the sysadmins, I only have access to the text on www.kubuntu.org
[21:04] <ScottK> Ah.
[21:34] <ScottK> OK folks, feel free to mark on this https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Kubuntu/ReleaseAnnouncement.2
[21:34] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^
[21:34]  * ScottK heads out.
[21:34] <ScottK> Riddell: If no one complains and you like that, then I'd say release.
[22:53] <claydoh> ScottK or Riddell: re https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Kubuntu/ReleaseAnnouncement.2
[22:53] <claydoh> 8.04.2 is listed as LTS, do we need to change that?
[23:18] <ScottK-palm> claydoh: Yes we do need to remove anf LTS reference as well as Ubuntu/Kubuntu (I'm sure I missed some).
[23:18] <ScottK-palm> claydoh: Please edit.
[23:56] <rgreening> Riddell: k-d-s needs old amarok removed from favorites and new amarok added. Just did an intstall on a friends and it was the old shortcut
[23:57] <nhandler> Is the paste.ubuntu.com entry for the plasmoid renaming still up-to-date? If so, unless there are any objections, I'll take care of the rest right now