| LaserJock | stgraber: anything that has a bug report | 00:42 |
|---|---|---|
| LaserJock | stgraber: I'm looking at getting RCbugs/milestones going | 00:42 |
| nubae | gosh using a belgian keyboard is like learning how to type again | 02:44 |
| nubae | LaserJockus... how goes? | 02:46 |
| nubae | damn insomnia got me up again | 02:46 |
| nubae | bah no one around to keep me co,pany :( | 02:48 |
| LaserJock | nubae!! | 02:57 |
| LaserJock | nubae: I've been wondering where you went | 02:57 |
| nubae | here i q, | 02:58 |
| nubae | am | 02:58 |
| nubae | damn stupid belgian keyboard | 02:58 |
| LaserJock | nubae: I'm working on moodle | 02:59 |
| nubae | reallly!!! | 02:59 |
| nubae | u? | 02:59 |
| nubae | god heavens why? | 02:59 |
| nubae | not that I am unhqppy or qnything | 03:00 |
| nubae | qs u cqn see q gets replqced zith a | 03:00 |
| LaserJock | heh | 03:01 |
| LaserJock | I'm working on the moodle packaging | 03:01 |
| LaserJock | not moodle itself | 03:01 |
| nubae | aaaah | 03:01 |
| nubae | wow... Ill be happy bout that | 03:01 |
| LaserJock | there are a huge number of security vulnerabilities in our current versions | 03:01 |
| nubae | Ill do a little dance for u | 03:02 |
| LaserJock | anyway, I'm not a moodle user, so my testing consists of "does it load in the browser?" | 03:02 |
| LaserJock | if I were to upload to a PPA would you be willing to test? | 03:02 |
| nubae | but of course | 03:03 |
| nubae | Im so heqvily involved in moodle dev, it kinda makes my stomach turn | 03:03 |
| LaserJock | what Ubuntu version could you test on? | 03:04 |
| nubae | but as u can probably guess I installed everything from source | 03:04 |
| nubae | dude | 03:04 |
| nubae | while u are qt it::: please package mahara | 03:04 |
| nubae | ill test on whatever u tell me, hqve a teaching conference coming in a couple weeks | 03:05 |
| nubae | zould be good time to test in the field | 03:05 |
| nubae | so whatcha think about what I mentioned yesterday | 03:06 |
| nubae | ogra didnt seem too thrilled | 03:07 |
| nubae | but the kde folkds are like 100 percent with us | 03:07 |
| nubae | qt first when u mentioned it I kinda was on the fence... but talking to them I got pretty convinced | 03:08 |
| LaserJock | well, I know what ogra was saying | 03:08 |
| LaserJock | we can't just drop gnome and say "we're a KDE shop now!!!" | 03:08 |
| nubae | its qbout undoing his work | 03:09 |
| LaserJock | but on the other hand we're certainly not "no KDE allowed" obviously | 03:09 |
| nubae | that shit happens all the time in osp | 03:09 |
| LaserJock | no, he pioneered a lot of it | 03:09 |
| LaserJock | he stuck by KDE Edu from the first | 03:09 |
| nubae | i know thqt | 03:09 |
| LaserJock | the thing is we're trying to shoot for DE neutrality | 03:10 |
| LaserJock | more than shifting from one to the other | 03:10 |
| nubae | and am the first to appreciate that... but must we start alking backwards? | 03:10 |
| LaserJock | how do you mean? | 03:10 |
| nubae | walking | 03:11 |
| nubae | kde is clearly now the superior plqtform | 03:11 |
| LaserJock | well, that's somewhat irrelevent though | 03:11 |
| nubae | it wasnt when ogrq did all the wonderful stuff he did | 03:12 |
| nubae | no it isnt | 03:12 |
| LaserJock | well, it quite often was better | 03:12 |
| LaserJock | that's why we carried KDE deps forever | 03:12 |
| nubae | ze need the best damn edu platform to deploy | 03:12 |
| nubae | this is not about devs | 03:12 |
| LaserJock | because KDE Edu is a world class suite of software | 03:12 |
| nubae | this is about educators | 03:12 |
| LaserJock | exactly | 03:12 |
| LaserJock | whether those educators choose Gnome or KDE shouldn't matter | 03:13 |
| nubae | but they are kde guys LaserJock | 03:13 |
| LaserJock | great | 03:13 |
| LaserJock | so edubuntu-desktop-kde should rock! | 03:13 |
| LaserJock | and KDE Edu will continue to rock | 03:13 |
| nubae | we join we become 3 ti,es ,ore capable | 03:14 |
| nubae | right1 | 03:14 |
| LaserJock | no, I don't think so actually | 03:14 |
| nubae | but focus should be on that noz | 03:14 |
| nubae | now | 03:14 |
| LaserJock | we're a distro, a distro does inherently different things than upstreams | 03:14 |
| nubae | god I hate this keyboqrd | 03:14 |
| LaserJock | I can usually understand you :-) | 03:15 |
| nubae | our upstream is edu | 03:15 |
| LaserJock | right | 03:15 |
| LaserJock | of all flavors | 03:15 |
| nubae | zo fuck the platform | 03:15 |
| LaserJock | so we work with KDE, we work with gnome, we work with moodle, we work with tux4kids | 03:15 |
| nubae | use whats best qt the moment | 03:15 |
| LaserJock | well, it's not that easy though | 03:16 |
| nubae | and u tell me what is that? | 03:16 |
| nubae | in terms of guys getting involed | 03:16 |
| LaserJock | you can't focus down on a single DE and the be switching back-n-forth all the time | 03:16 |
| nubae | in terms of appps that really work? | 03:16 |
| LaserJock | for getting people involved, we'd certianly welcome KDE people | 03:17 |
| LaserJock | that doesn't mean we're KDE-only | 03:17 |
| nubae | ok lets take a step bqck... | 03:17 |
| nubae | I never meant that at all | 03:17 |
| nubae | but we must make it clear we are not a gnome project | 03:18 |
| LaserJock | well, that's what I've been doing with most of my time in Jaunty | 03:18 |
| nubae | and that my friend is not obvious | 03:18 |
| nubae | i realise | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | right now edubuntu-desktop-kde is equal, finally | 03:19 |
| nubae | but u are one man | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | I talked with asegio | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | we've made neutral app bundles | 03:19 |
| nubae | get the damn help from these guys thqt are itching to join | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | well ... | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | the channels have always been open | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | people don't step up | 03:20 |
| nubae | i dont belive thqt | 03:20 |
| LaserJock | if they want to, I'm very very happy | 03:20 |
| nubae | I was told i person that u guys dont communicqte | 03:20 |
| LaserJock | but I've made quite a few calls for help, as has sbalneav, ogra, and others in the last couple years | 03:20 |
| nubae | ok, to zho? | 03:21 |
| LaserJock | and stgraber and I are the only ones left standing | 03:21 |
| nubae | jeez... who | 03:21 |
| LaserJock | to Planet Ubuntu | 03:21 |
| LaserJock | edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users | 03:21 |
| LaserJock | any time I've talked with upstreams I've said we're more than happy to collaborate and get help | 03:21 |
| nubae | i will join u soon; I promise... let me get the hang of pqckqging | 03:21 |
| nubae | but I also like the community binding part | 03:22 |
| LaserJock | sure | 03:22 |
| LaserJock | I mean, bottom line, it takes a lot of work to keep things running | 03:22 |
| LaserJock | and right now there isn't anybody to do it right | 03:22 |
| LaserJock | so yeah, we could do better at getting people involved | 03:22 |
| nubae | LaserJock u are thinking inisie the box | 03:23 |
| LaserJock | I'm thinking in current reality | 03:23 |
| LaserJock | so yeah, a bit inside the box | 03:23 |
| LaserJock | but I'm facing Feature Freeze in 9 days | 03:23 |
| nubae | no; u mentioned devel and users | 03:23 |
| nubae | sorry that is not the edu community | 03:23 |
| LaserJock | people want results, but very very few want to help | 03:24 |
| nubae | thats not even 10% | 03:24 |
| LaserJock | well, more *can* help than want | 03:24 |
| LaserJock | I know there are a lot of well-meaning people out there that would love to get involved and help | 03:24 |
| nubae | so do what u can, no one will ever be ungrqteful | 03:24 |
| LaserJock | but it currently takes around 1 year to "create" a dev | 03:25 |
| nubae | but we need to grow this community | 03:25 |
| LaserJock | and most people just won't make it | 03:25 |
| nubae | big time | 03:25 |
| LaserJock | I totally agree | 03:25 |
| LaserJock | I'd like to reach out more to upstream to try to get them involved | 03:25 |
| LaserJock | as they already know the software | 03:25 |
| LaserJock | they just need the packaging bits | 03:25 |
| LaserJock | but a lot of them are already overloaded, and I've really had very little success with getting upstreams deeply involved | 03:26 |
| nubae | ok, why dont we try this for a testing period | 03:26 |
| nubae | let ,e be the communicqtor | 03:26 |
| nubae | between attrqcting talent | 03:26 |
| nubae | i know the technics... I know the politics | 03:27 |
| nubae | in fact I belive i would be more help ther than on strqight dev | 03:27 |
| LaserJock | well, I understand what you're saying | 03:28 |
| LaserJock | but what happens if we attract some people? | 03:28 |
| LaserJock | if say a KDE dev emails the list and says "how can I help?", what do we do? | 03:28 |
| nubae | isnt that any easy quetion to answer? | 03:31 |
| LaserJock | no, it's not | 03:31 |
| nubae | explqin | 03:31 |
| nubae | fucking keyboard | 03:31 |
| LaserJock | right now I'd have to say "go spend 6 months learning packaging and get back to me" | 03:31 |
| nubae | wait wait wait | 03:32 |
| nubae | their job would be to integrqte edubuntu into jde | 03:32 |
| nubae | kde | 03:32 |
| nubae | qlong zith plas,oids I mentioned yestereday | 03:33 |
| LaserJock | well | 03:34 |
| LaserJock | that's more a KDE thing | 03:34 |
| LaserJock | I mean, I don't see plasmoids, etc. as really a Edubuntu-specific thing | 03:35 |
| LaserJock | so you're talking more about people developing *for* Edubuntu, not people *developing* Edubuntu | 03:35 |
| LaserJock | right? | 03:35 |
| nubae | absoliutely | 03:36 |
| nubae | does the platform matter? | 03:36 |
| LaserJock | well | 03:36 |
| LaserJock | the problem is I need people actually putting Edubuntu together | 03:37 |
| nubae | ze trying to get ,ore users... or force the, to use mostly crqp | 03:37 |
| nubae | sugqr is another great example of thqt | 03:37 |
| LaserJock | people writing plasmoids and stuff is great | 03:37 |
| LaserJock | but that's a pretty upstream task | 03:37 |
| LaserJock | though one we can certainly play a role in | 03:38 |
| LaserJock | but if people write 30 new apps for Edubuntu and yet nobody is there to make sure the packaging is maintained, we're not in a good position | 03:38 |
| LaserJock | I'd really like to see Edubuntu expand and offer more and more to users | 03:41 |
| nubae | ok, maybe this is just ,y ignorance | 03:41 |
| LaserJock | but I think our first priority needs to be making sure that the current stuff actually works | 03:41 |
| nubae | isnt packagn the same for kde folks qs for gno,e folks? | 03:41 |
| LaserJock | no | 03:42 |
| nubae | hmmm | 03:42 |
| LaserJock | it's like two different worlds :-) | 03:42 |
| LaserJock | and that doesn't really matter | 03:42 |
| nubae | now I get u then | 03:42 |
| LaserJock | I don't have gnome people | 03:42 |
| LaserJock | it's just me for everything but LTSP | 03:42 |
| nubae | sorry debiqn/ubuntu | 03:42 |
| LaserJock | what do you mean? | 03:43 |
| LaserJock | is the packaging different between the two? | 03:44 |
| nubae | no no::: I meqn differentation between kde gnome | 03:46 |
| LaserJock | ok | 03:46 |
| LaserJock | well KDE packaging is fairly different | 03:47 |
| LaserJock | it's pretty well organized and standardized though | 03:47 |
| nubae | but cqn u guys synchro? | 03:47 |
| LaserJock | between Debian and Ubuntu? | 03:48 |
| nubae | well stupid auesstion:: | 03:48 |
| nubae | u do already zith kdeedu | 03:48 |
| nubae | no kde gno,e | 03:48 |
| LaserJock | I don't know what you'd syncronize | 03:49 |
| nubae | fuck fuck fuck:::: killl me noz::: never ,qke ,e use q belgiqn keyboqrd again | 03:49 |
| nubae | packaging | 03:49 |
| LaserJock | well, they're just totally different things | 03:50 |
| LaserJock | the thing is with most gnome apps is they have no consistency | 03:50 |
| nubae | ok more simply... can u guys zork together to mqke q common structure? | 03:50 |
| LaserJock | no | 03:50 |
| LaserJock | there's just too many things going on | 03:51 |
| LaserJock | you'd have to coordinate a lot of people, and a lot of people will disagree | 03:51 |
| nubae | ok... so use packagekit | 03:51 |
| nubae | or s,qrt | 03:51 |
| nubae | smart | 03:51 |
| LaserJock | that doesn't help | 03:51 |
| nubae | zork together dammit | 03:51 |
| nubae | zork... funny | 03:51 |
| LaserJock | ok, but that doesn't change anything | 03:52 |
| LaserJock | gnome/kde packaging style differences is not a big deal | 03:52 |
| nubae | yes it does... it brings a commonly focused community togethere | 03:52 |
| nubae | more than one ltsp and gnome guy | 03:52 |
| LaserJock | well, but it really doesn't do much | 03:53 |
| nubae | and suddenly a bunch o f edu guys::: even getting paid for what they do | 03:53 |
| LaserJock | packaging is done basically on a per/app basis | 03:53 |
| nubae | so???? | 03:53 |
| LaserJock | well, so I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve | 03:53 |
| nubae | its community plqnning and organizing | 03:54 |
| LaserJock | oh, well we can do that | 03:54 |
| LaserJock | but we need a community | 03:54 |
| nubae | we do what u stqrted... an objective, mission statement | 03:54 |
| nubae | but one big enough where it matters ands it not just ( members at most | 03:55 |
| nubae | I dont wanna make ya feel vad really | 03:55 |
| LaserJock | well, I like the current doc ok | 03:56 |
| LaserJock | for now | 03:56 |
| nubae | I just wanna see this wonderful group of people be successful | 03:56 |
| LaserJock | as we grow we can grow it | 03:56 |
| LaserJock | but I don't know if you can make it much bigger without it being kinda useless | 03:56 |
| nubae | useless | 03:57 |
| nubae | ok? what negative ,ind set brought that on? | 03:57 |
| nubae | sorry, I, euro; I can be a bit blunt at times | 03:57 |
| LaserJock | well | 03:58 |
| LaserJock | what I mean is, if you paint *too* large of a misson/objective it's very difficult to get down to specifics and people aren't really very focused | 03:59 |
| LaserJock | you know what I mean? | 03:59 |
| LaserJock | nubae: btw, do you know of any good ways to get Edubuntu disks or like the Ubuntu DVD | 04:01 |
| nubae | how do u mean | 04:06 |
| nubae | physically? | 04:06 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 04:06 |
| LaserJock | I got an email from a teacher in the US who is doing a workshop for ~ 100 technology coordinators from all over the world | 04:08 |
| LaserJock | he's wondering how to get some CDs/DVDs to pass out | 04:08 |
| LaserJock | grrr, 239 open bugs and 208 unassigned | 04:09 |
| nubae | wai... ubuntu cds or edubuntu qddoncds? | 04:10 |
| LaserJock | well, he says DVDs | 04:11 |
| nubae | ok so must meqn the entire suite | 04:11 |
| nubae | well had u asked me 2 ago | 04:12 |
| nubae | I wass at fossdem wherer I got free cds from everyone imqginqble | 04:12 |
| nubae | U could hqve seriously helped | 04:13 |
| nubae | ill talk to riched if see hi, | 04:13 |
| nubae | him | 04:13 |
| LaserJock | I don't know what to tell people other than to buy them online | 04:14 |
| nubae | dude why should gcompris go in games? | 04:14 |
| nubae | its totally a teacher app especialllcy with the ,onitoring tools | 04:15 |
| nubae | in fqct sugar is moddeling their entire teacher ,onitoring suite on it | 04:16 |
| LaserJock | well, because that's what it calls itself | 04:16 |
| LaserJock | an educational game | 04:16 |
| LaserJock | we basically do games == preschool | 04:16 |
| nubae | ok? maybz u dont need my opinion but that just confuses | 04:17 |
| nubae | if its edu | 04:17 |
| nubae | put it edu | 04:17 |
| LaserJock | well, it is in edu | 04:17 |
| LaserJock | it's just edu -> games | 04:17 |
| LaserJock | well | 04:17 |
| LaserJock | on the installer anyway | 04:17 |
| LaserJock | in the application menu it's split up I think | 04:17 |
| LaserJock | gcompris is in games and the admin tool is somewhere else, maybe Other | 04:18 |
| nubae | aha | 04:19 |
| LaserJock | if we put everything edu in Education then it gets pretty overloaded | 04:19 |
| nubae | not at all | 04:19 |
| nubae | then it looks like we hqve qn edu suite | 04:20 |
| LaserJock | no, but like 30 apps in there isn't going to do very well | 04:20 |
| nubae | we cqn subsplit them | 04:20 |
| LaserJock | that's what edubuntu-menus is for | 04:21 |
| LaserJock | which we need to finish | 04:21 |
| nubae | so what co,plicq-ate sg-shit? | 04:21 |
| LaserJock | well, we need a GUI that runs the alacarte menu editor, then fix up the results | 04:22 |
| nubae | or sorry are you saying iy nrrds to be done that way in the edu menu? | 04:23 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 04:23 |
| nubae | ok | 04:23 |
| LaserJock | we can't change the normal menu | 04:23 |
| LaserJock | but we can use edubuntu-menus | 04:23 |
| nubae | y not? | 04:23 |
| LaserJock | because Gnome just implements the XDG standard | 04:24 |
| LaserJock | and it does so with only one level of menus | 04:24 |
| nubae | that doesnt meqn anything to me | 04:24 |
| LaserJock | well, essentially it means that the Applications menu is pre-determined | 04:24 |
| LaserJock | unless you override it as we do with edubuntu-menus | 04:25 |
| nubae | y? | 04:25 |
| LaserJock | well, because there's a menu standard | 04:25 |
| LaserJock | so we have to override the standard to do anything different | 04:26 |
| nubae | so? | 04:26 |
| LaserJock | well, so our way to do that is edubuntu-menus and we haven't finished it | 04:26 |
| LaserJock | because we lack a GUI to allow for editing the menus | 04:26 |
| nubae | ok | 04:26 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I need to take edubuntu-desktop-kde off the .iso | 04:28 |
| LaserJock | at least if we want it to be self-consistent, which I think we do | 04:29 |
| nubae | i gotta get some sleep... but pleqse lets cntinue this conv. | 04:29 |
| nubae | ze do | 04:29 |
| nubae | u are totally correct | 04:30 |
| nubae | gnight | 04:30 |
| LaserJock | bah, why the heck is moodle installing both mysql and postgresql bits | 04:34 |
| LaserJock | geeze, had to track it way back to apr-util | 04:47 |
| beachsurfin | could someone please specify to me what type of thin clients could be used w/ edubuntu? | 05:00 |
| LaserJock | it sort of depends on the server I think | 05:01 |
| beachsurfin | wouldn't it be difficult to use blender is such a setup? | 05:01 |
| LaserJock | beachsurfin: you might want to try #ltsp actually | 05:01 |
| LaserJock | it probably would | 05:01 |
| LaserJock | you'd probably want to go with a fat-client setup for that | 05:01 |
| beachsurfin | thanks LaserJock | 05:01 |
| marabout | LaserJock: OK as I want to set up a network using Ubuntu for my children so I figured that was the way to go..? | 05:24 |
| marabout | *Edubuntu rather | 05:24 |
| LaserJock | marabout: how many machines? | 05:25 |
| marabout | LaserJock: I have 2-3 right now, compaq 5000US, emachine T3046, and a G3 mac tower | 05:26 |
| marabout | LaserJock: any insights, tips...? or I guess it is all pretty straight forward | 05:33 |
| LaserJock | well, I just wonder if LTSP is going to be worthwile for you | 05:34 |
| LaserJock | having 1 machine to administer rather than 3 is certainly nice | 05:34 |
| LaserJock | but if the setup turns out to be not straightforward it might not be worth it | 05:35 |
| LaserJock | you can *certainly* give it a shot and see if it works out for you | 05:35 |
| LaserJock | and if it doesn't just go with non-LTSP installs | 05:35 |
| LaserJock | marabout: and if you need some LTSP help the #ltsp channel is a great resource | 05:35 |
| marabout | LaserJock: Ok thanks will do. Take care | 05:36 |
| LaserJock | have fun | 05:37 |
| nubae | LaserJock pleqse take out the postgres mess from the moodle installer | 07:13 |
| nubae | it makes no sense and on top of it breaks | 07:14 |
| LaserJock | nubae: we're trying to figure that out | 07:20 |
| LaserJock | nubae: Debian wants to take our changes | 07:20 |
| LaserJock | but we need to figure out how to deal with the DBs | 07:20 |
| nubae | i hace so much animosity to some of these purists | 07:21 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm getting a lot of mixed messages here | 07:21 |
| LaserJock | a lot of people want mysql, a lot of people don't | 07:22 |
| LaserJock | since moodle can use either I don't see how we can lock people into just one | 07:22 |
| nubae | we STILL dnt have libabiword co,piled into abizord (./configure --enqble-libabiword) for 8 god ddamned months | 07:22 |
| LaserJock | welcome to my world :-) | 07:23 |
| nubae | dont believe that... I work in the field (moodle), its what I curre"ntly get pai for | 07:24 |
| nubae | only ever seen one postgres install and when they get that big, they figure out hoz to installl the,selves | 07:25 |
| nubae | mysal, is plenty and used by th ! deployments I currently work with | 07:25 |
| LaserJock | I know, but as soon as I lock into mysql I'll get all kinds of bug reports about postgresql | 07:26 |
| LaserJock | if we can make the choosing work, we should do it | 07:26 |
| LaserJock | if not, then we can talk about choosing one | 07:26 |
| LaserJock | if people install via edubuntu-server they'll get postgresql and it should all work ok right now | 07:27 |
| nubae | jeezzz fucking numbers are reveresed on begliqn keyboard... hqve to press shift plus number to get number :) 8 deps I meant | 07:27 |
| nubae | LaserJock fqr greater gurus thqn u hqve tried (olpc for one) and gqve up | 07:28 |
| nubae | tond give urself thqt headache plese | 07:28 |
| nubae | dont focus on the shinny bits as Martiin Langhoff is fa,ous for saying | 07:29 |
| LaserJock | ok, but I'm not sure I exactly have a choice here | 07:29 |
| nubae | y the hell not? | 07:31 |
| nubae | qho forces u to put postgres in the packages? | 07:31 |
| nubae | qnd then cause ,oodle to fail installing | 07:31 |
| LaserJock | well, postgresql doesn't make it fail | 07:32 |
| LaserJock | having 2 different DBs does | 07:32 |
| nubae | give q nqme qnd I`ll go beat them with my seaqel stick | 07:32 |
| nubae | so then take postgres out | 07:32 |
| LaserJock | but I think it's general policy that if a package can support multiple DBs then the packaging should as well | 07:32 |
| nubae | it is by fqr the most unused | 07:33 |
| nubae | qnd anyone wanting to use it knows how to instqll it believe me | 07:33 |
| nubae | no rocket science | 07:33 |
| nubae | Ive done it | 07:33 |
| nubae | qnd im not even q dev | 07:33 |
| LaserJock | I can talk with the Server Team and see what they think | 07:36 |
| LaserJock | I'm just not sure we can drop to 1 DB | 07:37 |
| nubae | it works like thqt zith every other distro | 07:37 |
| nubae | lqve the dbe in, just dont codependit | 07:38 |
| nubae | bt... did u get to see the litte utube video of the kids using the xos in graz | 07:38 |
| nubae | check my page | 07:38 |
| LaserJock | waht do you mean by codependent? | 07:40 |
| nubae | i meqn instqll mysql with moodle | 07:42 |
| nubae | make postgres qs q db availabke but not installed into moodle | 07:42 |
| nubae | no choice | 07:43 |
| * nubae is going to kill himself if he needs to use q belgian keyboqrd qny longer | 07:43 | |
| LaserJock | I suppose, but if you want postgresql that means you have to have mysql installed to get moodle from apt | 07:43 |
| LaserJock | nubae: that video is pretty fun | 07:44 |
| nubae | dude... for someone who knows how to both instqll and manage postgres; unsinstalling mysql is not too hard | 07:44 |
| nubae | believe ,e | 07:44 |
| nubae | me | 07:44 |
| LaserJock | no, I mean they'd lose moodle as well | 07:45 |
| LaserJock | so the options are: | 07:45 |
| nubae | first deployment in Europe! | 07:45 |
| LaserJock | 1) mysql + our moodle | 07:45 |
| nubae | no why | 07:45 |
| nubae | right | 07:45 |
| LaserJock | 2) postgresql + mysql + our moodle | 07:45 |
| nubae | no | 07:45 |
| LaserJock | 3) postgresql + not our moodle | 07:45 |
| nubae | that doesnt and will nevver zork | 07:46 |
| nubae | option 3 | 07:46 |
| nubae | option 1 as defqult | 07:46 |
| LaserJock | if mysql is a dep then if you remove it you remove moodle | 07:46 |
| nubae | if u qre using moodle | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | so people are stuck in one of those 3 options | 07:47 |
| nubae | its highly unlikely ud be re,oving ,ysql | 07:47 |
| nubae | give people some credit | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | why? | 07:47 |
| nubae | cquse they knoz the 2 are connected | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | I mean, that's exactly what I'd do | 07:47 |
| nubae | qnd if they are postgres guys | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | so I wouldn't think it'd be *that* uncommon of a case | 07:48 |
| nubae | they knoz how to fix q postgres install in secs | 07:48 |
| LaserJock | ok, but that's not my point | 07:48 |
| LaserJock | installing postgresql is not the issue, it's moodle | 07:48 |
| nubae | ok what is? | 07:49 |
| nubae | yes it instqlls with the default server mysql | 07:49 |
| LaserJock | if I wanted to use postgresql I'm stuck with option 2 or 3 | 07:49 |
| LaserJock | and I suspect people mostly don't want 2) | 07:49 |
| nubae | no::: then u usually q highly trqined experience ad,in zho zould knoz in seconds hoz to uninstqll mysql qnd then postgres | 07:50 |
| LaserJock | so that leaves people with not installing moodle from the archives | 07:50 |
| nubae | there is q MASSIVE difference between the knowledge level of q postrgreser qnd and a mysqlr | 07:51 |
| LaserJock | but not in terms of just installing moodle | 07:51 |
| nubae | postgres is the oracle of the linux world | 07:51 |
| LaserJock | I can just as easily choose one or the other, no diff | 07:51 |
| nubae | its not needed | 07:51 |
| LaserJock | other than a lot of people I know like postgres better | 07:51 |
| LaserJock | so I usually go that route | 07:51 |
| nubae | it causes confusion and conflicts | 07:52 |
| LaserJock | right | 07:52 |
| nubae | its teachers installing this stuff | 07:52 |
| LaserJock | yep | 07:52 |
| nubae | of course they do, they qre devs | 07:52 |
| nubae | co talk to some teachers and ,mention posgres whatch their reaction | 07:52 |
| LaserJock | ok, but that doesn't really matter | 07:53 |
| LaserJock | mention mysql and you'll get a similar reaction | 07:53 |
| nubae | yes it does::: we want ,ore educqtors using our software | 07:53 |
| nubae | ze dont want to ,ake it co,plex and i,pôssible to install | 07:54 |
| nubae | no u zon | 07:54 |
| nubae | wont | 07:54 |
| nubae | educqtors knoz wat mysql is | 07:54 |
| nubae | cuqse its used in everything | 07:54 |
| nubae | zithin moodle it should be possible; but a coice mqdfe by qn qdmin | 07:54 |
| nubae | that make sense? | 07:55 |
| LaserJock | right | 07:56 |
| LaserJock | but my problem is if say the IT staff say they want postgresql | 07:56 |
| LaserJock | then the person can't use moodle from ubuntu | 07:56 |
| nubae | then let them go ahead and do it | 07:56 |
| nubae | its like ' lines of bqsh | 07:56 |
| nubae | zhere is the issue? | 07:56 |
| nubae | thats not true | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | the issue is, the point of packaging this stuff is so that users can install it | 07:57 |
| nubae | postgres exists qs q seperqte pqckqge | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | I know that | 07:57 |
| nubae | users! | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | but if moodle depends on mysql then they're screwed | 07:57 |
| nubae | admins instqll postgres | 07:57 |
| nubae | users install the base | 07:58 |
| LaserJock | users install it as well | 07:58 |
| nubae | instqll what as well postgres? | 07:58 |
| nubae | never | 07:58 |
| LaserJock | they are now! | 07:58 |
| nubae | qt least ive never seen it | 07:59 |
| LaserJock | we default to postgresql | 07:59 |
| LaserJock | so quite a few people are installing it | 07:59 |
| nubae | which doesnt zork my friend | 07:59 |
| LaserJock | postgresql works just fine | 07:59 |
| nubae | i have q how to on my zebsite to prove it | 07:59 |
| nubae | not zithin the moodle instqller | 08:00 |
| LaserJock | how do you mean? | 08:00 |
| nubae | go qheqd qnd try install moodle right now | 08:01 |
| nubae | see what i mean | 08:01 |
| nubae | the postgres part fails | 08:03 |
| nubae | ive done it at least 5 times | 08:04 |
| nubae | same result | 08:04 |
| nubae | unless something changed of course, but I severely doubt it | 08:05 |
| LaserJock | ah right | 08:06 |
| LaserJock | I've got a pile of bug reports for that | 08:06 |
| nubae | hmmmm | 08:06 |
| LaserJock | but that's a problem with moodle's packaging I'm pretty sure | 08:07 |
| LaserJock | not postgresql | 08:07 |
| nubae | so what is the easizst most praxctical solution | 08:07 |
| nubae | right | 08:07 |
| nubae | take the ,other fucker out | 08:07 |
| LaserJock | dude, I realize what you're saying | 08:08 |
| LaserJock | I don't like having to worry about this stuff | 08:08 |
| LaserJock | but I don't always get to do it the easy way | 08:08 |
| nubae | let experienced admins choose it when they need it (1000+° users | 08:08 |
| LaserJock | I'll be talking to Debian and the Server Team about it | 08:09 |
| nubae | ok | 08:09 |
| LaserJock | Debian was OK with using postgresql | 08:09 |
| nubae | cool | 08:09 |
| nubae | fuck debiqn in this cae | 08:09 |
| LaserJock | but I'll double check | 08:09 |
| nubae | they screwed up enough shit alreqdy | 08:09 |
| LaserJock | well, they've really stepped up with the new maintainers | 08:10 |
| LaserJock | who include a moodle developer | 08:10 |
| nubae | for moodle really? | 08:10 |
| nubae | then y u fixing the issue? | 08:10 |
| nubae | its not a ubuntu bug | 08:11 |
| LaserJock | because it needs to be done now | 08:11 |
| LaserJock | well, it is, sorta | 08:11 |
| LaserJock | we totally redid the debconf stuff | 08:11 |
| nubae | yeah, I gqvee u workable solution | 08:11 |
| LaserJock | well, it's not exactly an easy solution | 08:12 |
| LaserJock | it's not bad, but not trivial either | 08:12 |
| nubae | we do not need to 2 dbs for moodle | 08:12 |
| nubae | ze need the most common zorkable one | 08:13 |
| LaserJock | well, that's not exactly the traditional way we do things | 08:13 |
| nubae | k enough nbeed to get breqkfqst, its 9 here | 08:13 |
| LaserJock | but it may need to happen in this case | 08:13 |
| LaserJock | I need to get to bed | 08:13 |
| nubae | do it | 08:14 |
| nubae | sleep my good friend | 08:14 |
| LaserJock | I'll keep poking people about it though | 08:14 |
| LaserJock | we'll either fix it up or go with 1 | 08:14 |
| LaserJock | the current situation isn't very good | 08:14 |
| nubae | no it sucks | 08:14 |
| nubae | no one installs from repos | 08:15 |
| nubae | thqt is a big no no | 08:15 |
| LaserJock | night | 08:16 |
| nubae | ok sleep well | 08:16 |
| Nubae-laptop | alkisg: u there? | 09:29 |
| alkisg | Nubae-laptop: yup | 09:41 |
| alkisg | (classroom break :P) | 09:41 |
| === hfsdo_ is now known as hfsdo | ||
| LaserJock | nubae: I talked with one of the Debian moodle maintainers | 18:40 |
| LaserJock | nubae: they suggested that maybe dbconfig-common could help us out | 18:41 |
| Ahmuck | does ubuntu ltsp have a admin management user/console? | 19:22 |
| Ahmuck | outside of sudo? | 19:22 |
| === merriam_ is now known as merriam | ||
| Lns | Ahmuck: what do you mean admin management user/console? | 20:01 |
| Ahmuck | outside of sudo. like jr-admin | 20:01 |
| Ahmuck | for user add, passwd, vbox managment, etc. | 20:01 |
| ogra | since you do all that on a normal ubuntu machine, you use System->Administration usually | 20:05 |
| ogra | vbox brings its own interface no need to duplicate that | 20:06 |
| Ahmuck | system-admin usualy requires sudo access ? | 20:07 |
| flyingsquirrel32 | How do I modify my dhcp.conf to make my LTSP install work with a single nic? | 20:19 |
| ogra | if your NIC IP matches the network defined in the file you dont need to modify it at all | 20:20 |
| ogra | dont forget that ubuntu ltsp uses /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf though | 20:21 |
| LaserJock | ogra: somehow I've managed to become part of the moodle maintainers in Debian ;-) | 20:23 |
| ogra | wohoo | 20:23 |
| LaserJock | ogra: they're really making a lot of improvements and they want to work with Ubuntu quite a bit | 20:23 |
| ogra | cool ! | 20:23 |
| LaserJock | they were even linking up CVEs in LP, etc. | 20:23 |
| ogra | i wonder if we should move moodle out of main though | 20:24 |
| LaserJock | I wonder | 20:24 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 20:24 |
| ogra | that would loosen the deps | 20:24 |
| LaserJock | we could make edubuntu-server be in Universe | 20:24 |
| LaserJock | not worry about it on the CD | 20:24 |
| ogra | postgres is the main DB because its in main | 20:24 |
| LaserJock | mysql is in Main as well though isn't it? | 20:24 |
| ogra | though there was a contract about e-s at some point | 20:25 |
| ogra | yes, it wasnt when moodle came in though | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | ah | 20:25 |
| ogra | and postgres was the supported DB | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | well, Debian suggested looking into dbconfig-common | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | which is in Main | 20:25 |
| ogra | right | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | I think the big problem is the embedded libraries | 20:26 |
| ogra | probably best is to talk to the server team to ask them what they suggest | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | it's sort of weird, but I think getting all the deps in Main might be pretty hard | 20:26 |
| ogra | is there still so much ? | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | quite a few, but a lot of the packaged ones are in Universe | 20:26 |
| ogra | shouldnt be | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | I filed a MIR for smarty | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | but yui would require javascript-common and wwwconfig-common | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | not sure about the others yet | 20:27 |
| ogra | they were in main already, just make sure you follow an advice of the security team to have them split out | 20:27 |
| ogra | and that it was our initiative that convinced upstream | 20:27 |
| ogra | so we have a responsibility imho | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | well, the problem in some cases is that the packaged versions have deps we don't want | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | in Main anyway | 20:27 |
| ogra | wwwconfig-common is a nono | 20:28 |
| LaserJock | even though the embedded version doesn't require them | 20:28 |
| ogra | that needs to be worked around | 20:28 |
| LaserJock | right, just not something I'm going to do in a weekend ;-) | 20:28 |
| ogra | no idea about javascript-common, its the first time i see it | 20:28 |
| LaserJock | I've seen it a few times | 20:28 |
| ogra | our package shouldnt have any deps on wwwconfig-common | 20:28 |
| ogra | since it entered main | 20:28 |
| LaserJock | I know | 20:29 |
| LaserJock | and it doesn't | 20:29 |
| ogra | right, thats a delta we always carried | 20:29 |
| LaserJock | the problem is that the Debian-packaged version of the embedded libs *do* dep on it | 20:29 |
| ogra | hmm | 20:30 |
| LaserJock | so the concern is tracking down all the maintainers for the split out libs | 20:30 |
| LaserJock | and making sure they're not using wwwconfig-common or whatever else would cause problems | 20:30 |
| LaserJock | so if we could drop edubunt-server and moodle to Universe for a while until we get that all figured out | 20:31 |
| LaserJock | we could also include some other good apps like mahara | 20:31 |
| LaserJock | I don't know if dropping it from Main would cause any issues for Canonical or not | 20:33 |
| ogra | supportability | 20:44 |
| LaserJock | ogra: my plan regarding embedded libs was to just do what I can and keep the internal copies of the ones I can get into Main for now | 21:06 |
| LaserJock | for right now only smarty and yui have been split out by Debian | 21:07 |
| LaserJock | 1 I can get into Main, the other not right now | 21:07 |
| ogra | yeah, sounds like a good plan | 21:07 |
| LaserJock | for Jaunty+1 we can take another look | 21:08 |
| LaserJock | I told the Debian maintainers that we don't want wwwconfig-common | 21:09 |
| LaserJock | and they said they'd looked over our changes to moodle and were ok with them | 21:09 |
| LaserJock | so I'm hoping to have by Alpha 5 a almost completly syncable moodle | 21:09 |
| ogra | cool | 21:12 |
| flyingsquirrel32 | ogra: Thanks for the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf tip. That explains things... | 21:39 |
| Ahmuck | back | 21:43 |
| paulgm | Is there an edubuntu livecd? I can't find it anywhere on the site, only an addon CD for an existing ubuntu | 22:42 |
| LaserJock | paulgm: no, there isn't a livecd | 22:53 |
| LaserJock | paulgm: it wouldn't nearly fit | 22:53 |
| paulgm | That's a shame. I'd like to show this to a local library that has asked me to sort out the group of PCs they let kids play around on. | 23:11 |
| paulgm | No chance of getting it on a DVD either? | 23:11 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm looking at that right now | 23:11 |
| LaserJock | the edu stuff is on the DVD | 23:12 |
| LaserJock | but it's not "installed" in the Live part | 23:12 |
| LaserJock | I'm trying to do it to see if it works right now | 23:12 |
| LaserJock | darn, ran out of RAM | 23:13 |
| LaserJock | paulgm: I think it'd work if you have enough RAM to load the stuff in | 23:14 |
| LaserJock | paulgm: you can load the DVD, then install the Edu stuff you want | 23:14 |
| LaserJock | paulgm: another option, if you're up for it, would be to make your own Live disk using something like Ubuntu Customization Kit (UCK) | 23:16 |
| LaserJock | paulgm: we just don't have the resources to maintain a DVD on our own right now and the CD doesn't have nearly enough space for all the educational apps | 23:19 |
| paulgm | Sure, I understand. I hadn't heard about the Ubuntu Construction Kit - I'll go have a play and see what I can come up with. | 23:21 |
| paulgm | Thanks for the help :) | 23:22 |
| LaserJock | paulgm: no problem | 23:22 |
| loic-m_ | paulgm: you could also install first it on a usb key or an external harddrive (provided the computer support booting on USB devices, or else you swap the hd) | 23:28 |
| LaserJock | or you can bring in a laptop | 23:31 |
| flyingsquirrel32 | How can I add screen resolutions to my ltsp client? | 23:48 |
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