[00:32] <Lns> flyingsquirrel32: look into lts.conf settings in the documentation
[05:18] <LaserJock> stgraber: at some point before jaunty is released will you have time to look at the italic bugs?
[05:22] <alkisg1> LaserJock: iTalc bugs? which ones, he fixed most of them...
[05:22] <LaserJock> there's only 3
[05:23] <alkisg1> where? https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-italc-devel
[05:23] <LaserJock> alkisg1: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/italc
[05:24] <LaserJock> alkisg1: you can also get those from hitting "Show package report" from the URL you gave me
[05:26] <alkisg1> Ah, ok, it's just paperwork, he fixed other, more "critical" bugs :)
[05:26] <LaserJock> sure, that's why I said "sometime before jaunty is released"
[05:27] <alkisg1> LaserJock: when is the last date before we can send patches for bugs for jaunty?
[05:27] <LaserJock> well ...
[05:27] <LaserJock> depends on the bug
[05:27] <alkisg1> Small ones :)
[05:28] <alkisg1> No UI involved
[05:28] <LaserJock> April 9th
[05:28] <alkisg1> Ah, ok, I'll be waiting for the beta then before installing it :)
[05:28] <alkisg1> Ty!
[05:29] <LaserJock> what!
[05:29] <LaserJock> you can't do that! :-)
[05:29] <LaserJock> we need testers *before* we can no longer fix things :-)
[05:30] <LaserJock> well, I guess Beta gives us 2 weeks
[05:30] <alkisg1> I tried the alpha, but it doesn't work well in my laptop - no touchpad :(
[05:30] <LaserJock> Kubuntu or Ubuntu?
[05:30] <alkisg1> both
[05:30] <LaserJock> hmm, Kubuntu was having some problems with that
[05:30] <LaserJock> Ubuntu though has been doing ok for me that way
[05:30] <alkisg1> And all my personal files are there, so I'll have major problems with data loss... :O
[05:31] <LaserJock> meh, backups ;-)
[05:31] <LaserJock> I keep all my data on a separate partition, and back up that partition decently often
[05:31] <alkisg1> Nah... backups are for people that don't like risks :)
[05:31] <alkisg1> (or are not as bored of them as I) :P
[05:31] <LaserJock> but I blow away installs fairly often
[05:32] <LaserJock> I usually keep 2 OSs on my laptop and reinstall them every couple months
[05:32] <alkisg1> I usually have the latest + the previous ubuntu version in my laptop, and ~30 other OSes in vmware/virtualbox etc
[05:34] <LaserJock> I have latest + development and I don't have enough room for that many VMs :-)
[05:35] <alkisg1> Heh... win95a/dsl/delilinux etc only need ~100mb
[05:36] <LaserJock> I've got a XP partition (only Windows in the house) that 16GB
[05:36] <LaserJock> and then several ~5 GB linux VMs
[05:36] <alkisg1> Fortunately my laptop hd is 250Gb... otherwise I'd have to use an external one all the time
[08:45] <highvoltage> 12300 ilab3     20   0  4352  1504  1068 S  0.0  0.0  0:00.00 bash -c echo LTSPROCKS; /bin/sh -
[08:46] <highvoltage> ^^^ is that normal or is someone playing tricks on me?
[08:58] <ogra> thats the sentinel the first ssh connection (the one not forwarding X ) sets
[09:01]  * nubae2 waves to the German speaking ally
[09:02] <ogra> guten morgen nubae2 :)
[09:12] <alkisg1> Good morning all, hey nubae2, were you looking for me yesterday?
[09:13] <nubae2> i was alkisg1
[09:14] <nubae2> but cannot for the world rem,ember why
[09:14] <nubae2> something to do with ltsp on kde
[09:15] <alkisg1> Hm... I tried Kubuntu jaunty yesterday, the kernel has problems with my touchpad...
[09:15] <alkisg1> ...so I think I'll try it later on, maybe when it's beta
[09:16]  * ogra hopes alkisg1 filed a bug :)
[09:16] <alkisg1> ogra: nope :-D Filed another one for filezilla which corrupted ~2000 of my files, though... :P
[09:17] <alkisg1> nubae2: why don't the logs at #ltsp work?
[09:19] <alkisg1> nubae2: and I talked to pitt about system-config-user and users-admin... He told me that there's a try for a new user management tool in fedora: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-May/msg00006.html
[09:19] <nubae2> ah shit again?
[09:20] <nubae2> ok, gonna move the bot to another server
[09:20] <nubae2> its even cronned and everything
[09:20] <nubae2> but think the idiotic sysadmins at godaddy caught on
[09:20] <nubae2> I have to log #sugar now too anyway
[09:21] <nubae2> hmmm... why do I get this with sudo (and fix please): udo: /var/run/sudo owned by uid 1000, should be uid 0
[09:24] <alkisg1> Don't know, why don't you try deleting it with `gksu gnome-terminal` ?
[09:35] <nubae2> alkisg1: logs fixed
[09:36] <nubae2> not sure why they werent updating... anway we didnt loose them, they just werent getting to the page
[09:36] <alkisg1> Ah, good
[11:35] <nubae2> @locate alkigs1
[11:36] <nubae2> @blog gr alkisg
[11:36]  * alkisg doesn't have properties "locate" or "blog", try again...
[11:36] <alkisg> :P
[11:37] <nubae2> dfoh were not in ltsp
[11:37] <nubae2> of course bot wont respond
[16:06] <Ahmuck> is there a way to print out ttf font styles on a spec sheet that is in the ubuntu system?
[16:10] <alkisg> Ahmuck: huh? You mean a list of the ttf fonts in the system, rendered with the fonts themselves?
[16:11] <Ahmuck> yes
[16:11] <Ahmuck> something i could look at for font representation
[16:11] <Ahmuck> for scribus, and DTP
[16:12] <alkisg> Well, I don't know if any easier way exists, but you could make a very simple script that would produce an .html file with all your fonts, which you would then open with firefox
[16:13] <Ahmuck> i was thinking the same thing
[16:14] <alkisg> And I think I have some code to generate a .pdf from python, using a specific font
[16:17] <alkisg> Ahmuck: see `man fc-list` for an easy way to get the installed font list
[16:18] <Ahmuck> have you seen a application that would allow the creation of ttf fonts from someone's handwriting ?
[16:19] <Ahmuck> http://www.webpagepublicity.com/free-fonts-a2.html#FreeFonts
[16:19] <alkisg> I've heard of such applications, but I haven't tried any of them. And I think there was also a free web service for this.
[16:19] <Ahmuck> is ttf creation really that hard?
[16:19] <Ahmuck> it would seem to me it's a matter of creating a svg gallery of fonts
[16:20] <Ahmuck> and then inputing them into key signatures
[16:20] <Ahmuck> forgive my terminology
[16:20] <alkisg> To create a font from scratch? Yeah, it's really hard!
[16:20]  * Ahmuck gets out wacom bamboo and writes - new font
[16:21] <Ahmuck> via inkscape for svg font types, and then convert to ttf
[16:21] <Ahmuck> ?
[16:21] <alkisg> Well, a typographer would need some months to create a new font... I don't know how quickly you could do it. :)
[16:22] <alkisg> It's not only about drawing the letters; kerning, hinting etc take a _lot_ of time
[16:22] <Ahmuck> my question is why?
[16:22] <Ahmuck> why months ?
[16:22] <Ahmuck> that i understand, but what is a font really
[16:22] <alkisg> Because it takes 1 hour for each letter? :)
[16:22] <Ahmuck> it's a fancy letter
[16:22] <alkisg> Yeah, but you have to draw the points exactly
[16:23] <Ahmuck> and a handwriting font (someones handwriting) would only require they write two or three samples
[16:23] <Ahmuck> which then put in for a==a, etc.
[16:23] <Ahmuck> it may seem i'm over simplyfing things, but from my perspective, it seems simple
[16:24] <alkisg> Ahmuck: apt-get install fontographer and try it :)
[16:26] <alkisg> E.g. you may draw a letter, but when you try to use it at 12 points it may not draw well, so you have to move it, modify the line width etc
[16:27] <alkisg> And if you draw "a" and then "i" and you put them side by side and they're too far apart, you have to fix that. And not only for a specific size, for all sizes.
[16:27] <alkisg> And there are > 65000 characters to draw for a unicode font...
[16:28] <Ahmuck> ah
[16:29] <alkisg> And a lot of variations for the same letter or for letter combinations
[17:53] <Ahmuck> alkisg: what do u do?
[17:53] <Ahmuck> ? do u do ?
[17:53] <Ahmuck> heh
[17:54] <Ahmuck> ?doudo?
[17:56] <alkisg> Ahmuck: I'm a teacher
[17:57] <Ahmuck> science, math, computer ?
[17:58] <alkisg> computers, in kids 12-18 years old
[18:06] <LaserJock> awesome
[18:06] <LaserJock> alkisg: do you teach any programming then?
[18:07] <alkisg> Yeah, sometimes pascal, c, or basic, and mostly a greek programming language for which i've also build an ide/interpreter
[18:08] <LaserJock> alkisg: any Python?
[18:08] <alkisg> No, we don't teach python in greece. Shame, I know, it's a fine language
[18:10] <LaserJock> it is a shame
[18:10] <LaserJock> you could do some basic pyqt stuff fairly easily
[18:10] <alkisg> Sure, and it would be easier to teach, the kids would be interested in this
[18:19] <Ahmuck> i'd like to see a python learning enviroment such as alice, though i'm not into 3d
[18:20] <LaserJock> emacs is no good? :-)
[21:46] <nubae2> vi is better
[21:46] <nubae2> :p
[22:08] <nubae2> LaserJock: around?
[22:10] <nubae2> Lns: ?
[22:11] <LaserJock> nubae2: am now
[22:11] <nubae2> ah cool
[22:11] <nubae2> I need to run a vm for Jaunty debugging/testing
[22:11] <nubae2> I heard vbox is having problems
[22:11] <nubae2> u recommend kvm?
[22:12] <nubae2> and which jaunty... a daily build?
[22:14] <LaserJock> I'm using vbox and haven't had any problems really
[22:14] <LaserJock> nubae2: you could start with Alpha 4
[22:15] <LaserJock> nubae2: also starting next week we need to test the Ubuntu DVD
[22:15]  * ogra comforts LaserJock 
[22:15] <ogra> make sure to rsync daily else the downloads get huge
[22:15] <LaserJock> ogra: did you see the change cjwatson made?
[22:16] <ogra> nope ?
[22:16] <ogra> i only see dmraid related work from him today
[22:16] <LaserJock> I asked him about the DVD d-i installer
[22:16] <ogra> ah
[22:17] <LaserJock> it was being preseeded so that it only installed the normal Ubuntu install
[22:17] <LaserJock> so he took out the preseeding so that tasksel pops up
[22:17] <nubae2> the vbox problems I heard about were sugar related, which I need to run too inside the vm
[22:17] <LaserJock> so I *think* you should be able to select the Edubuntu tasks and get a Edubuntu install all in one go
[22:18] <LaserJock> nubae2: ah, then if you can run kvm I'd go for that
[22:18] <LaserJock> I can't on my laptop so I use vbox
[22:21] <LaserJock> ogra: I also filed a bug about LTSP not being in the F4 menu on the DVD
[22:22] <LaserJock> nubae2: should I write an email to -devel with details on what and how to test?
[22:33] <nubae2> maybe yeah, others will want to do the same
[22:33] <nubae2> also, alternate or desktop?
[22:34] <ogra> nubae2, alternate or DVD
[22:34] <ogra> there is no edubunti live anymore (which would be desktop)
[22:34] <ogra> *edubuntu
[22:37] <LaserJock> if the DVD thing works out it might be a really a nice system
[22:37] <LaserJock> -a
[22:40] <nubae2> ok, Ill try dvd then
[22:40] <nubae2> or are u saying in a week?
[22:42] <LaserJock> after Saturday
[22:42] <LaserJock> that's when the next DVD will be built with the change
[22:44] <nubae2> so for now?
[22:44] <nubae2> alternate
[22:46] <LaserJock> sure
[23:19] <nubae2> gosh, u still need that list of universe apps from me dont u?
[23:19] <LaserJock> it'd be handy
[23:21] <nubae2> oh, btw.... things became really really heated with sugar/debian/ubuntu cooperation
[23:21] <LaserJock> oh?
[23:21] <nubae2> so basically ubuntu has now officially forked from debian
[23:21] <LaserJock> good grief
[23:21] <nubae2> yeah... if u read the emails some would make u cry
[23:21] <nubae2> u know Jonas?
[23:22] <LaserJock> perhaps
[23:22] <nubae2> Smordgard
[23:22] <nubae2> debian packager
[23:23] <LaserJock> yeah
[23:23] <nubae2> and holger levsen
[23:23] <LaserJock> yep
[23:23] <nubae2> well, as u probably know Jonas is not the easiest person to deal with
[23:23] <nubae2> from what I hear
[23:23] <nubae2> just rumours, and from what I've seen in response to my mails
[23:24] <nubae2> so anyway, u know about the abiword issue
[23:24] <LaserJock> sure
[23:24] <nubae2> basically its ./configure --enable-libabiword and we have a lot of things suddenly fixed in sugar
[23:25] <nubae2> well, Jonas will not do anything but stick to releasing 0.82
[23:25] <nubae2> for lenny
[23:25] <LaserJock> right
[23:25] <nubae2> and holger suggested something in between
[23:25] <nubae2> which errupted into a little flame war
[23:25] <nubae2> he then went on to call ubuntu a fork
[23:26] <nubae2> and that we really dont know how to do packaging and dont understand debian policy
[23:26] <nubae2> etc etc
[23:27] <nubae2> so in the end David Farning wrote an official email stating that due to the political status quo, it was best to go our own ways and merge to experimental when the time comes
[23:27] <nubae2> just so u know :-)
[23:27] <ogra> which holger ?
[23:27] <ogra> levsen ?
[23:27] <nubae2> yup
[23:27] <ogra> grmpf ...
[23:27] <nubae2> nice guy
[23:27] <nubae2> holger
[23:27] <nubae2> I met him at fossdem
[23:28] <ogra> yeah, he is
[23:28] <nubae2> and he got some real grief from Jonas man...
[23:28] <ogra> he was the first person every showing me ltsp :)
[23:29] <nubae2> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 03:37:15PM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote:
[23:29] <nubae2> what I build.
[23:30] <nubae2> Please stop posting noise that can be mistaken as invitation to break
[23:30] <nubae2> >please relax...
[23:30] <nubae2> the second part was Jonas
[23:30] <nubae2> after holger had already been attacked and just quietly asked to relax
[23:30] <nubae2> amazing...
[23:31] <nubae2> so thats that... I guess that means abiword is also forked
[23:31] <nubae2> and all its deps
[23:32] <nubae2> its weird cause Holger seemed such a calm relaxed, just totally chilled out guy... and he was being attacked... made no sense
[23:32] <LaserJock> nubae2: where is that happening?
[23:33] <nubae2> iaep list
[23:33] <LaserJock> I checked debian-olpc-devel and didn't see anything
[23:33] <nubae2> its all sugar related
[23:33] <nubae2> its an education project list
[23:33] <nubae2> acutally u should probably subscribe, if u have the time
[23:33] <nubae2> its a very wide circle of educators
[23:34] <nubae2> I feel kinda bad, cause I started the entire thread... and it ended being 51 answers and forks of those emails
[23:34] <nubae2> jeez
[23:36] <nubae2> Hi,
[23:36] <nubae2> regards,
[23:36] <nubae2> thats all holder said...
[23:36] <nubae2> alioth gito repos.)
[23:36] <nubae2> (I'd be happy to sponsor if someone provides those packages as branch in the
[23:36] <nubae2> it in unstable...
[23:36] <nubae2> holger
[23:36] <nubae2> we could prepare sugar 0.83 (or 0.84) in experimental, as long as we dont want
[23:37]  * nubae2 sighs
[23:37] <LaserJock> well, it doesn't look at bad as it sounded
[23:38] <LaserJock> right now is a good time for Ubuntu to leap forward
[23:38] <nubae2> all I said was, look sugar doesnt work on ubuntu, we cant include it in jaunty in its current state
[23:38] <LaserJock> but surely once Lenny is out Debian will be looking at what Ubuntu's been doing
[23:38] <nubae2> 50% doesnt work... and the packagers responsible have no interest in doing anything but their git way
[23:39] <nubae2> freezing everyone else from moving forwards
[23:39] <nubae2> Lenny is now offficially to be released 14th
[23:39] <LaserJock> well, I think you need to kinda calm down a bit if you can
[23:39] <nubae2> holger at least confirmed this
[23:39] <LaserJock> it's going to take quite some work to get everything working
[23:39] <nubae2> oh, I am... now we can actually work
[23:40] <LaserJock> and is not a Lenny deal
[23:40] <nubae2> but as it stood.... nothing was going to change until lenny+1
[23:40] <nubae2> when would that be?
[23:40] <LaserJock> the 15th
[23:40] <nubae2> funny guy
[23:40] <nubae2> :p
[23:40] <LaserJock> no, I'm serious
[23:41] <nubae2> its the 14th
[23:41] <nubae2> and im talking lenny +1
[23:41] <LaserJock> on the 15th lenny+1 (called squeeze) starts
[23:41] <nubae2> oh
[23:41] <nubae2> i mean stable release
[23:41] <LaserJock> so that's when we can get everything moving
[23:41] <nubae2> u know what i mean
[23:41] <LaserJock> we don't care about what's in their stable release
[23:41] <LaserJock> only unstable
[23:42] <nubae2> i know
[23:42] <LaserJock> lenny is just currently blocking most movement in Debian
[23:42] <nubae2> i was more talking about debian's sugar release
[23:42] <LaserJock> so once that roadblock is released then we can sync up again
[23:42] <nubae2> not just debian though so many other upstream projects
[23:43] <nubae2> I mean I get it, I do... the stability and everything... but newer projects really really suffer because of that
[23:43] <LaserJock> yep, that's the way it works
[23:43] <LaserJock> it's a balancing act
[23:44]  * nubae2 is still learning the politics of it all
[23:44] <nubae2> and boy is there a lot of that
[23:44] <LaserJock> so has somebody filed a bug in Debian to split out libabiword?
[23:45] <nubae2> i guess the sugar ubuntu team will be hard at work tomorrow doing that
[23:45] <LaserJock> filing the bug?
[23:46] <nubae2> bugs
[23:46] <nubae2> whole of sugar is splitting off
[23:46] <LaserJock> nah, nah
[23:46] <nubae2> we move to 0.83/0.84, they stay at 0.82
[23:47] <LaserJock> sure
[23:47] <LaserJock> but that's not unusual
[23:47] <LaserJock> but what about abiword?
[23:47] <nubae2> http://luke.faraone.cc/2009/02/forking-sugar-from-debian/
[23:48] <LaserJock> this is kinda rediculous
[23:48] <LaserJock> I don't see a reason for all this
[23:49] <nubae2> the reason is that one guy is stopping sugar from progressing if this isnt done this way
[23:49] <nubae2> we're supposed to be a team
[23:49] <LaserJock> he can't stop you
[23:49] <LaserJock> it's git!
[23:50] <LaserJock> that's the wonderful part of distributed revision control
[23:50] <nubae2> but he has... its been 8 months with the same crap
[23:50] <LaserJock> no, no, no
[23:50] <LaserJock> hang on
[23:50] <LaserJock> you have a git repo
[23:50] <LaserJock> you guys can make a branch for Jaunty
[23:50] <LaserJock> with 0.84
[23:51] <nubae2> on ubuntu yes
[23:51] <nubae2> forking
[23:51] <LaserJock> no
[23:51] <LaserJock> forking is when you no longer merge
[23:51] <LaserJock> you guys *should* merge once Lenny is out
[23:51] <LaserJock> you're just moving ahead for a time for Jaunty
[23:51] <nubae2> but the main package maintainer doesnt want to
[23:51] <LaserJock> but that is *not* a fork
[23:51] <nubae2> he alrready calls it a fork
[23:52] <LaserJock> he wants 0.84 after Lenny is released, right?
[23:52] <nubae2> not until he decides its stable, no
[23:52] <LaserJock> ok, well fine
[23:52] <LaserJock> but whenever that is
[23:52] <LaserJock> so there's no reason why you can't create a 0.84 branch
[23:52] <LaserJock> to get everything ready
[23:53] <nubae2> but thats exactly what holger suggested
[23:53] <nubae2> and was blocked
[23:53] <nubae2> its the reason for the fork
[23:53] <LaserJock> well, i don't know that it really was blocked
[23:53] <LaserJock> I thought he blocked parallel uploads
[23:54] <LaserJock> does Jona refuse to let anybody create a 0.84 branch in git?
[23:54] <LaserJock> Jonas
[23:54] <nubae2> I believe it is more important to have a full core set of Sugar packages
[23:54] <nubae2> packages. But we are not there yet!
[23:55] <nubae2> Certainly it is best to have multiple fully working full sets of Sugar
[23:55] <nubae2> half-baked sets of packages that does not work fully.
[23:55] <nubae2> that actually works (even if not the very newest), than multiple
[23:55] <nubae2> >Couldn't we simply clone the current "stable" tree and import later
[23:55] <LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't answer my question
[23:55] <nubae2> packaging!
[23:55] <nubae2> Current source handling is already too complex: Noone except me is
[23:55] <nubae2> >releases into that, no extra software changes needed?
[23:55] <nubae2> I guess it requires some more upstream debain packagers to get involved
[23:56] <nubae2> I dunno
[23:56] <nubae2> but its the right decision imho to move forwards and whenever its decided its not experimental anymore (0.84) actually merge again
[23:57] <LaserJock> right, but you can work in the same git repo
[23:57] <LaserJock> same team
[23:57] <LaserJock> instead it's all "we're forking!"
[23:57] <LaserJock> which is not a great community builder
[23:57] <nubae2> right right, I strongly argued against that
[23:58] <nubae2> but Jonas wants to use topgit
[23:58] <nubae2> and only that
[23:58] <nubae2> we are a team, and we'd like to help, but if only he can push changes, what's the point of keeping the status quo?
[23:58] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure you guys could work it out, but I'll leave that alone
[23:59] <LaserJock> it's git, he doesn't have to be involved
[23:59] <LaserJock> but the issue now is how to get anything going in Ubuntu
[23:59] <LaserJock> does the sugar team have any MOTUs?
[23:59] <LaserJock> are they talking with Xubuntu?
[23:59] <nubae2> I can send u the email stream if u want, its 51 responses... but its just silly at this point... whats been explained to me, and I dont know enough about this stuff to comment is that he doesnt want to loose the power to control the sugar releases