[06:44] <crevette> hello
[07:11] <crevette> salut huats
[07:11] <huats> hello crevette
[08:48] <seb128> good morning there
[08:48] <mvo> hey seb128!
[08:48] <seb128> hello mvo
[08:48] <seb128> mvo: I'm on my laptop now ;-)
[08:48] <mvo> did you had a chance to look at the gconf output?
[08:49] <mvo> great :)
[08:49] <seb128> can you give me the gconf key again?
[08:49] <seb128> or rather gconf directory
[08:49] <mvo> gconftool --get /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins
[08:49] <seb128> $  gconftool --get /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins
[08:49] <seb128> [core,ccp,dbus,place,mousepoll,gnomecompat,move,resize,decoration,png,svg,imgjpeg,text,neg,video,wall,snap,animation,scale,scaleaddon,expo,staticswitcher,regex,resizeinfo,workarounds,ezoom,vpswitch,extrawm,fade,session]
[08:50] <mvo> but with this config its now working, right?
[08:50] <seb128> no
[08:50] <mvo> does that include the latest uploads I did from yesterday?
[08:50] <mvo> oh
[08:50] <seb128> I did upgrade to the version you uploaded yesterday and use the capplet to reset normal effects
[08:51] <mvo> but you still get the windows on multiple workspaces?
[08:51] <seb128> yes
[08:51]  * mvo scratches his head
[08:51] <seb128> mvo: if you open the applications menu, accessories and select screenshot there it's only listed on one workspace?
[08:53] <mvo> seb128: yes, but with the live-cd from yesterday I saw the same effect as you, just not on my normal system. I will try harder to reproduce
[08:53] <seb128> just select the normal effects in the appareance capplet?
[08:54] <seb128> mvo: that's weird, if I run 'gnome-screenshot --interactive' which is the desktop command I don't get the bug
[08:54] <seb128> using the run application dialog or a command line
[08:54] <seb128> but when starting it from the gnome-panel menu I get the issue
[08:54] <mvo> and its evo and gnome-screenshot? or everything you start from the panekl?
[08:55] <seb128> same for evolution
[08:55] <seb128> starting it on a command line = no bug
[08:55] <seb128> using the launcher installed by default = bug
[08:55] <seb128> everything I start using a launcher
[08:55] <seb128> or menu entry
[08:55] <seb128> I get it with gedit too now
[08:57] <seb128> mvo: get the bug too now?
[08:57] <mvo> not ready yet, give me a minute :)
[08:59] <seb128> that sounds like a "let me get some tea first then I can have a look" ;-)
[08:59] <mvo> heh .) no, tea is already ready
[08:59] <mvo> *yum*
[08:59] <seb128> ;-)
[09:00] <mvo> but the compiz test machine was not booted yet
[09:00] <seb128> ah ok
[09:00] <mvo> seb128: do you compiz 1:0.7.9+git20090211-0ubuntu3 ( ?
[09:00] <seb128> "compiz test machine", I see
[09:01] <mvo> :)
[09:01] <seb128> you don't run this compiz crap on your normal boxes right? ;-)
[09:01] <mvo> the laptop can't run compiz, it freeze after 5min (ati driver issue)
[09:01] <mvo> and everything else runs compiz (i.e. my regular workstation)
[09:01] <seb128> let me restart my session to be sure
[09:03] <seb128> $ dpkg -l | grep compiz
[09:03] <seb128> ii  compiz                                     1:0.7.9+git20090211-0ubuntu3      OpenGL window and compositing manager
[09:03] <seb128> still getting the issue after a session restart
[09:03] <seb128> mvo: so you still don't get the bug?
[09:03] <mvo> woah, that is very strange, *now* I get it too, but I did not restart or anything, just clicked on the menu
[09:04] <mvo> that is puzzeling
[09:04] <seb128> mvo: you didn't even try before did you?
[09:04] <mvo> seb128: you click on the workspace switcher applet? or use the key (ctrl-alt-left) ro swithc?
[09:05]  * seb128 can see mvo saying "compiz bug, yeah, yeah, another of those gtk bugs rather"
[09:05] <mvo> seb128: *plong*
[09:05] <seb128> mvo: doesn't make a difference but neither of those, I've switch to workspace-n set for the workspaces I use often
[09:06] <seb128> but using ctrl-alt-arrows or mouse doesn't make a difference
[09:06] <mvo> I think I can reproduce it now too
[09:07] <seb128> what did you change in your workflow to get it?
[09:07] <mvo> starting it via the gnome-panel seems to be the key
[09:08] <seb128> right
[09:08] <mvo> hm
[09:09] <mvo> _NET_WM_DESKTOP = 4294967295 does not look quite right :)
[09:09] <mvo> (especiall when a manually started xterm has "0")
[09:10] <mvo> metacity gets that right, I think here is the problem
[09:10]  * mvo digs into the changes
[09:10] <mvo> thanks a lot seb128!
[09:10] <seb128> mvo: thanks to you ;-)
[09:11] <mvo> I bet its a off-by-one error, 4294967295 is FFFFFFFF
[09:24] <pitti> didrocks: congratulations to your MOTU badge!
[09:25] <seb128> pitti: where has that been announced? did huat get accepted too?
[09:27] <pochu> seb128: yeah :) check the motu ml
[09:28] <pochu> seb128: or ubuntu-devel@
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: yes, huats too
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: u-d or u-d-d
[09:33] <seb128> got the emails now
[09:33] <seb128> you guys are too quick at reading those ;-)
[09:34]  * pochu was at the end of the meeting ;)
[09:34] <seb128> I tend to not poll on my emails every minutes or I spend half of the day doing that ;-)
[09:34] <pitti> seb128: just by accident, I figure
[09:34]  * pitti usually processes mails three or four times a day
[09:34] <seb128> btw other topic
[09:35] <seb128> but do you guys have an opinion on all those netbook patches which randomly add scrollbars?
[09:35] <seb128> that seems rather an ugly workaround to me and I don't like those very much though there is no strong technical reason for that
[09:36] <pitti> scrollbars??
[09:36] <seb128> I'm wondering if we should just apply those or should discuss other ways too?
[09:36] <pitti> eww
[09:36] <pitti> I thought they'd rearrange the dialogs to fit into small screens?
[09:36] <seb128> pitti: no, they do add scrollviews for when < 600
[09:37] <seb128> pitti: bug #324464 is one example
[09:38] <seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22549603/90_1024x600_gnome-mouse-properties.c.patch
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: well, *shrug* if it doesn't alter the default look if you have more than 600 pixels, it's certainly bearable for jaunty, but IMHO the dialogs should just be rearranged upstream
[09:41] <seb128> right, my opinion too
[09:41] <didrocks> pitti: thanks a lot ;)
[09:41] <seb128> several of those changes patch glade files though
[09:41] <seb128> didrocks: congrats
[09:41] <seb128> and patching glade = no fun to do updates
[09:41] <didrocks> hi seb128 and thanks too :)
[09:41] <pitti> seb128: for jaunty they won't change that much any more, and the original authors should push to get them upstream; otherwise we'll just drop them again in the next release and ask them to re-do the patch
[09:42] <seb128> pitti: ok, I dislike the changes but I guess we can do that for jaunty
[09:46] <pitti> seb128: btw, does the evo integration in the clock applet work for you?
[09:46] <pitti> seb128: I never get any appointments/TODOs there any more
[09:46] <pitti> and with google cals in evo enabled, it even hangs the panel
[09:47] <seb128> I don't want to click on the applet now, I got too many hangs recently and ctrl-alt-backspace not working ;-)
[09:47] <pitti> heh
[09:47] <pitti> killall gnome-panel helps
[09:48] <seb128> right when you think about opening a command line before having the issue ;-)
[09:48] <pitti> ctlr+alt+f1 :)
[09:49] <seb128> pitti: ok, can't use clock applet, hangs every time
[09:50] <seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570765
[09:50]  * seb128 grrrrrs at vuntz
[09:58] <seb128> re
[09:58] <seb128> pitti: the clock applet seems to list events correctly when not freezing after starting evolution
[09:59] <seb128> ie I restart, open the calendar, nothing listed, start evo, open the calendar, then they are listed there
[10:58] <mvo> seb128: I think I nailed it down, sn_startup_sequence_get_workspace() return 0xffffffff when opened by the gnome-panel. I'm not sure if this is (also) a bug in the panel, but I added a workaround into compiz and sent a patch upstream
[10:59] <seb128> mvo: ok thanks, that worked fine with compiz before the recent updates so compiz did change in some way
[11:00] <mvo> seb128: yeah, I suspect its really compiz that is faulty, let me know if the new version (-ubuntu4) fixes it for you too, thanks again for the good description of the problem :)
[11:00]  * mvo off for lunch
[11:00] <seb128> mvo: you're welcome, thanks for the quick fixing ;-)
[11:22] <huats> hey seb128 :)
[11:22] <huats> we missed you this morning ;)
[11:22] <seb128> lut huats, congrats
[11:23] <huats> thanks seb128
[11:23] <seb128> huats: too early for me ;-)
[11:23] <huats> you deserve a great share for that...
[11:24] <seb128> huats: now we can count on your for universe desktopish updates ;-)
[11:24] <huats> yep !
[11:30] <seb128> pedro_: hello, g_slice crashes require a valgrind log
[11:30] <seb128> huats: how was the meeting then? did you get many questions?
[11:30] <huats> seb128: not a lot
[11:30] <pedro_> seb128: i know, I'm getting one since same crash is happening here
[11:31] <huats> mainly about my opinion on how to improve the desktop work
[11:31] <seb128> pedro_: ok
[11:32]  * asac hugs huats for reaching MOTU decoration ;)
[11:32] <huats> thanks asac !
[12:23] <rickspencer31> pitti: ping
[12:29] <Laney> seb128: What's the deal with bug #327747?
[12:37] <seb128> Laney: what do you mean exactly?
[12:38] <seb128> Laney: that's a new package that needs review and sponsoring?
[12:38] <Laney> Yeah, is there a reason why it's not on REVU?
[12:38] <Laney> and why it's native?
[12:39] <seb128> Laney: there is a diff.gz on the bug, how native?
[12:39] <Laney> I see no orig
[12:39] <seb128> Laney: is using REVU a rule? I for one don't have an account on REVU and don't use it
[12:39] <seb128> Laney: the orig is the nautilus-sendto one
[12:39] <Laney> ah
[12:40] <Laney> REVU isn't technically required, but I doubt that any MOTU will review and upload straight from launchpad
[12:40] <Laney> unless the package is special for some reason
[12:40] <seb128> I will if they don't
[12:40] <seb128> MOTU sucks sometimes
[12:40] <seb128> I don't get why using REVU should be a requirement
[12:40] <seb128> that's a normal sponsoring request
[12:40] <seb128> need to talk to dholbach about it
[12:44] <Laney> maybe its fine, I just didn't get what it was about
[12:45] <seb128> Laney: it's about building code which requires universe build-depends
[12:45] <seb128> Laney: the choice are to either promote those build-depends or have an universe package which does the build
[12:47] <Laney> oh right, I get it
[12:47] <Laney> it wasn't very clear, sorry for the confusion
[12:47] <seb128> that's alright
[12:48] <seb128> just curious but was not clear?
[12:48] <seb128> the description and package name should give good clue
[12:49] <Laney> I understood the purpose, but not the implementation
[12:50] <seb128> what do you consider as suboptimal?
[12:50] <seb128> or what is weird for you?
[12:50] <Laney> It wasn't clear that this was a fork of an already-existing package, and that it uses the same orig
[12:51] <Laney> maybe it's just the way I read it though
[12:51] <seb128> well, it doesn't use the same orig exactly
[12:52] <seb128> or rather than a cp nautilus-sendto.orig.tar.gz nautilus-sendto-universe.orig.tar.gz
[12:52] <Laney> yeah
[12:52] <Laney> md5sum-identical
[12:52] <seb128> the idea is to have the same source but ship the things which have universe depends only
[12:52] <Laney> anyway I will review it later
[12:52] <seb128> thanks
[12:52] <seb128> I was going to do that but if you do it that's better so I can NEW it
[12:53] <seb128> I prefer to not have the same person doing the review and NEWing
[12:53] <seb128> for what is worth I did look at the debdiff and it's trivial
[12:53] <seb128> it's basically extra build-deps over the main package and a .install to install the things which are not in nautilus-sendto
[12:58] <seb128> Laney: welcome on your new MOTU membership btw ;-)
[13:01] <Laney> thanks
[13:03] <seb128> welcome -> congrats
[13:03] <seb128> rather ;-)
[14:22] <ember> congrats huats didrocks and Laney :p
[14:22] <huats> thanks ember
[14:54] <bluesmoke> mvo: Please do a snapshot of plugins-main, wall is so awesome now :)
[14:54] <mvo> bluesmoke: you should still have commit access to the team ;)
[14:55] <mvo> bluesmoke: but yeah, sounds great. I need some "commitment" from danny that there will be a stable releas at some point
[14:55] <mvo> otherwise I get into trouble :)
[14:55] <bluesmoke> Supposedly 0.8 was supposed to be out now
[14:55] <mvo> but just compiz, no? the plugins-{main,extra} are not branched
[14:55] <mvo> or is trunk just what will be 0.8?
[14:56] <mvo> (for the plugins)
[14:56] <bluesmoke> They planned on doing it all together
[14:56] <mvo> cool
[14:56] <mvo> I missed that
[14:56] <mvo> Amaranth: I make a update into the compiz ppa now, sounds like we should be prepared
[14:56] <Amaranth> mvo: They want 0.8 to be the first release that drops the fusion name, from what I can understand of it
[14:56] <Amaranth> Which I think is too much, they should just do the release and worry about that stuff for 0.9
[14:57] <mvo> I agree, its just a name afterall
[15:02] <pitti> rickspencer31: pong
[15:14] <seb128> huats: do you have universe upload rights already?
[15:14] <seb128> didrocks: or you?
[15:14] <seb128> bug #329020 seems a good first desktop sponsoring ;-)
[15:17] <huats> seb128: I don't know :)
[15:18] <seb128> huats: good opportunity to try if you want ;-)
[15:18] <huats> seb128: I am a bit on a rush now :(
[15:18] <seb128> huats: ok no hurry, maybe something to try this weekend if you want
[15:18] <huats> yep
[15:18] <huats> I am taking care of it , but this WE or monday :)
[15:19] <seb128> ok
[15:19] <huats> (of course I'll look if nobody deal with it ))
[15:24] <ember> mvo or seb128 care to accept the gnome-desktop-sharp2 binaries? tomboy requires libgnomepanel2.24-cil
[15:24] <mvo> Amaranth: plugins are now in the compiz-ppa
[15:25] <Amaranth> mvo: woohoo
[15:25] <mvo> ember: seb128 will have to do that, I can not do NEW
[15:25] <Amaranth> mvo: have you seen the feature I'm talking about in wall?
[15:25] <mvo> Amaranth: :) I like the "keep dock windows in place" when doing the place
[15:25] <mvo> eh, switch
[15:25] <mvo> is that what you mean?
[15:25] <Amaranth> yep
[15:26] <Amaranth> It's like the static plugin but it works for the desktop too
[15:29] <mvo> Amaranth: yeah, its very cool
[15:29] <mvo> a small thing, but looks much nicer
[15:29] <Amaranth> I was asked to ensure this gets into jaunty :)
[15:30] <mvo> haha
[15:31] <mvo> Amaranth: by danny? or some users :) ?
[15:31] <Amaranth> users
[15:31] <Amaranth> gnome-do developers, actually
[15:32] <mvo> nice
[15:32] <mvo> I guess it should be safe to upload it into jaunty proper
[15:33] <Amaranth> until 0.9 compiz is still "the latest git snapshot is better then the last release"
[15:33] <Amaranth> 0.9.x is going to be hard to deal with
[15:34] <mvo> did you actually start to package the compiz++ branch?
[15:38] <asac> Riddell: i tried kubuntu-desktop yesterday on my ati system and after login it ends up with a white screen similar to what happens if i force compiz under gnome.
[15:38] <Amaranth> mvo: Nope, not really worth it yet
[15:39] <Amaranth> mvo: everything is going to be moving around
[15:39] <asac> mpt_: see msg
[15:39]  * mvo nods
[15:40] <Riddell> asac: if you're in a testing mood, see if this helps  echo -e "[Compositing]\nEnabled=false" > ~/.kde/share/config/kwinrc
[15:40] <asac> Riddell: ok so you dont run similar blacklisting as we do for compiz
[15:40] <asac> =
[15:41] <asac> Riddell: Riddell you ment ">>" not ">" right=
[15:41] <asac> damn keyboard
[15:41] <Riddell> asac: it should use the blacklist from compiz
[15:41] <Riddell> asac: depends if you care about about kwin settings :)
[15:41] <asac> i appended that now to my config. next time i log in i will check
[15:42] <asac> Riddell: probably not ... i never used kde in the last years or so
[15:42] <asac> oh i started it in intrepid for networkmanager i think
[15:42] <asac> Riddell: the only thing that makes compiz fallback on my card is "Software Rasterizing" ... you probably want to check for that too
[15:45] <asac> Riddell: anyway ... will let you know if that helped at all
[16:25] <seb128> re
[16:25] <seb128> mvo: so how many compiz updates can you screw in a week? ;-)
[16:26] <mvo> *pff*
[16:28] <seb128> mvo: just jocking, your new version fix my issue ;-)
[16:28]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[16:28] <crevette> hey gentlemen
[16:28] <crevette> I plan to do the update of the lastest bluez version
[16:36]  * mvo hugs seb128
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128 - just looking at bug 314263 again - the uploaded patch is not correct, which is part of the reason it doesn't work anymore
[16:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson: feel free to submit a debdiff to fix it
[16:54] <chrisccoulson> i will do, but i just tested it with the patch applied correctly, and it still doesn't work correctly. it doesn't pass any uri to the application now
[16:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson: what is wrong in the patch?
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> the patch does what was intended, but i'm wondering whether something changed between 2.19.5 and 2.19.6. i'm going to apply it to 2.19.5 in a minute and make sure it still works
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> i'm doing a build with some g_debug's in at the moment so i can try and work out what is going on
[17:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll provide a corrected debdiff for that. it seems to be working now after logging out and back in again
[17:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson: what did you change now?
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> i havent changed anything, other than correcting the patch so that it applies properly
[17:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson: you don't want to tell me what was wrong or not correctly applied then?
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the patch actually patched itself (if that makes sense), because of a copy/paste error from the debdiff i provided
[17:19] <seb128> ah ok
[17:19] <seb128> I did screw the 2.15.6 update because my local copy was not uptodate
[17:19] <seb128> and your debdiff added another revision rather than fixing that
[17:19] <seb128> so I did tweak it
[17:20] <seb128> but I did it quickly and probably did something wrongly there
[17:20] <seb128> next time I will ask for an updated debdiff rather ;-)
[17:20] <chrisccoulson> that's ok ;)
[17:20] <chrisccoulson> just in case it didn't make sense, i copied the extracted patch to http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/117746/ so you can see
[17:21] <chrisccoulson> it's a direct copy and paste from the debdiff i think and as a consequence it actually patches itself;)
[17:53] <asac> bryce: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/browser-benchmarks-2-even-wine-beats-linux-firefox ... hmm
[17:54] <asac> thats partly firefox fault. most time probably goes lost on cairo/X11/driver level
[17:55] <asac> just FYI
[17:59] <bryce> asac: bummer
[18:01] <bryce> asac: hmm, I wonder exactly what differences in the stack exist between wine and non-wine
[18:01] <bryce> asac: I'd think they're using the same X11/driver bits underneath but who knows
[18:01] <bryce> could easily just be some difference in cairo backends
[18:01] <asac> bryce: its gtk + cairo + xrender vs. windows.dll toolkit that probably doesnt use cairo and maybe not xrender underneath
[18:02] <asac> bryce: i am quite sure its cairo (if not gtk), but not sure if its really cairos folk or just its heavy use of xrender or other X11 features
[18:02] <asac> i know that cairo has a few cases where it has bugs ... like rendering of box borders
[18:03] <asac> not sure if those can explain all
[18:03] <bryce> mm
[18:03] <bryce> well I'm good friends with cworth (he lives the next town over) so if there's specific work or questions you need, I'd be happy to get his help
[18:05] <bryce> asac, hmm in fact i'll send him this article now and get  his feedback
[18:05] <bryce> asac: btw have you run that benchmark to confirm the findings on ubuntu?
[18:07] <asomething> seb128: not to distract from your discussion in devel, but I was wondering if there are any 2.25.90 updates that still need some one to handle them.
[18:09] <seb128> asomething: I don't think so but 2.25.91 coming soon ;-)
[18:09] <seb128> asomething: you can work on split evolution documentation by locale if you want
[18:10] <seb128> that would be nice to win cd space
[18:10] <asomething> seb128: interesting, I'll look into that. that would be something new for me
[18:11] <seb128> basically list evolution-documentation-nn where nn is a locale for each locale in the control file and move things in the rules or something I would expect
[18:11] <seb128> you can try looking at how gimp does that
[18:12] <asomething> i'll give it a shot
[18:12] <asac> bryce: no, but a commentor did: 161 (wine) vs 130 (native)
[18:12] <bryce> mm ok
[18:12] <bryce> I'll cc you
[18:22] <crevette> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/327747/comments/6
[18:23] <crevette> hey Laney
[18:23] <crevette> you're here
[18:23] <Laney> yessir
[18:23] <crevette> about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/327747/comments/6
[18:24] <seb128> Laney: control.in, that's a copy of nautilus-sendto mostly so better to keep changes low to make easier to do updates and keeping those in sync
[18:24] <crevette> if you I replace Universe by Supplementrary in short description, wiil it make you happy?
[18:25] <seb128> Laney: ie, cleaning that would only means extra diff over nautilus-sendto and work to do merges for no real win
[18:26] <Laney> seb128: Well I was imaginging that merges would be done manually anyway so it wouldn't matter
[18:26] <Laney> but I dont' feel strongly about it, it was more stylistic
[18:26] <seb128> right, I've no strong opinion either
[18:26] <crevette> as you want
[18:27] <Laney> crevette: I was thinking more along the lines of the nautilus-sendto one
[18:27] <Laney> integrates xxx and yyy into nautilus or something
[18:27] <Laney> also, there were some indentation inconsistencies in control, but now I'm really nitpicking :)
[18:28] <crevette> so should I drop control.in ?
[18:29] <Laney> I will upload either way, so pick what will make you more happy as maintainer
[18:31] <crevette> Laney: I'm not technically speaking a maintainer, and I don't consider myself as a maitainer
[18:31] <crevette> I'm just some guy helping ubuntu  :)
[18:32] <crevette> I appreciate any good advice
[18:32] <crevette> :)
[18:32] <Laney> well IMO it isn't necessary, especially as the changelog history will differ, and this is the main point of uploaders.mk
[18:33] <Laney> why did you add DEB_DESTDIR btw?
[18:33] <crevette> Laney: to be able to only provide the two *.so files
[18:34] <crevette> I've been advised to do so
[18:34] <crevette> :)
[18:34] <Laney> oh, was the whole directory installed by default in nautilus-sendto?
[18:34] <crevette> Laney: yes
[18:34] <Laney> i.e. not adding it would install all of the plugins again
[18:34] <Laney> OK, got it
[18:34] <Laney> (might be nice to say this in the changelog)
[18:35] <crevette> Laney: we rebuild whole nautilus-sendto why that, and we only pick up the so we want to have
[18:35] <Laney> yeah, I understand
[18:52] <crevette> Laney: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m4b7895d5
[18:52] <crevette> is it better for you?
[18:53] <Laney> crevette: How about "integrates Empathy and UPnP into the Nautilus file manager"?
[18:53] <Laney> following nautilus-sendto
[18:54] <seb128_> Laney: are you a native english speaker?
[18:54] <Laney> yes
[18:54] <seb128_> just wondering ;-)
[18:54] <seb128_> Laney: ok, so you pick the description, will probably be better than what french guys (ie crevette or me for example) can do ;-)
[18:54] <Laney> heh, I was just going for consistency
[18:54] <Laney> but it sounds better to me too
[18:54] <seb128_> Laney: yeah, I think your suggestion makes sense
[18:55] <pochu> seb128: I didn't know the notification bugs where actually valid upstream bugs
[18:55] <pochu> seb128: that makes things quite different
[18:56] <pochu> I've already forwarded one upstream and I'm going to prepare a patch for another one
[18:56] <Laney> they are?
[18:56] <pochu> Laney: yes
[18:56] <Laney> interesting
[18:56] <Laney> I was under the impression that Ubuntu was being quite heavy-handed here
[18:56] <pochu> Actions may or may not supported by the daemon, so they should check that it's supported before using it
[18:56] <Laney> in what sense are they valid?
[18:56] <Laney> oh, that is cool
[18:56] <pochu> see "Actions" in table 1 in http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/0.9/x81.html
[18:56] <seb128> pochu: right, they are but they have no strong reason to go this way, they are just wishlists
[18:57] <pochu> "This functionality may not be implemented by the notification server, conforming clients should check if it is available before using it"
[18:57] <pochu> seb128: who are "they"?
[18:57] <seb128> Laney: well, the idea is to stop using notification in bubbles
[18:57] <Laney> Yeah, I know the idea
[18:57] <Laney> I just thought that it was an Ubuntu quirk
[18:57] <seb128> pochu: upstream, GNOME, the daemon they use support actions so they might not see the issue
[18:58] <seb128> where the new daemon will not
[18:58] <pochu> seb128: right, but they are ignoring the spec, which makes those valid bugs
[18:58] <pochu> even if they are low prio
[18:58] <seb128> right, bugs are valid
[18:58] <seb128> I just say it's not really a priority for them
[18:58] <pochu> yeah
[18:58] <seb128> but no doubt opening bugs makes sense
[18:58] <pochu> bug my two affected upstreams are not GNOME ;)
[18:58] <seb128> ;-)
[18:58] <pochu> and actually I'm now upstream for Liferea itself
[18:59] <pochu> although if you tell me Liferea consumes 100% cpu, I'll blame Xulrunner :)
[18:59] <seb128> pochu: congrats
[18:59] <pochu> thanks :)
[19:00] <crevette> pochu: time to switch to webkit :)
[19:00] <pochu> crevette: oh yeah :)
[19:00] <pochu> crevette: trunk is webkit only
[19:00] <seb128> pochu: btw where are you running for motu membership then?
[19:00] <crevette> really ?
[19:00] <pochu> no Xulrunner, no GtkHtml anymore ;)
[19:00] <pochu> crevette: yeah
[19:00] <seb128> where -> when
[19:00] <pochu> and 1.6 will be released soon
[19:00] <pochu> seb128: I'm MOTU for more than a year ;)
[19:00] <seb128> hum, I was not sure, should have checked
[19:01] <seb128> pochu: you should do universe sponsoring ;-)
[19:01] <pochu> yeah...
[19:01] <seb128> good to see new people helping there with Laney, huats and didrocks who joined today
[19:01] <seb128> anyway dinner time
[19:01] <seb128> bbl
[19:01] <pochu> enjoy
[19:02]  * crevette stays UNMOTU
[19:02] <crevette> :)
[19:02] <pochu> crevette: not for long!
[19:02] <crevette> pochu: you're tracking applications using action in notifications ?
[19:03] <pochu> crevette: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=dxteam
[19:04] <crevette> pochu: gnome-user-share uses actions (I coded notification for it)
[19:05] <crevette> but I don't see the gain removing actions, but it is true I didn't read docs related to the changes you're doing
[19:05] <pochu> crevette: I'm not tracking them... maybe the Dx team missed that
[19:05] <pochu> crevette: or maybe they didn't report it yet ;)
[19:05] <crevette> what is dxteam ?
[19:06] <pochu> crevette: well, the point is that according to the notification-daemon spec, the daemon may not have actions support
[19:06] <pochu> crevette: so you should check if it has, and if it doesn't, don't use them
[19:06] <crevette> okay
[19:06] <pochu> crevette: Desktop Experience team
[19:06] <pochu> (new Canonical team)
[19:06] <crevette> okay
[19:06] <pochu> crevette: so the bugs are for applications that don't check whether the daemon has actions support before using them
[19:07] <pochu> those that do are fine
[19:08] <mclasen_> pochu: yet the bugs all read '...shouldn't use notifications with actions'
[19:09] <pochu> mclasen_: yeah, I guess the title is incorrect
[19:09] <pochu> mclasen_: the body says "they should check if the daemon supports Actions"
[19:09] <mclasen_> fair enough
[19:09] <pochu> or actually
[19:09] <pochu> "Instead, the buttons should be made conditional on whether the notification server supports actions."
[19:10] <pochu> which is the direction that patches have
[19:10] <pochu> e.g. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22449526/goobox-notify.diff
[20:50] <asac> pochu: where did you read that?
[20:50] <asac> 20:09 < pochu> "Instead, the buttons should be made conditional on whether the notification server supports  actions."
[23:12] <pochu> asac: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liferea/+bug/328606
[23:20] <pochu> asac: see comment #3 in bug 328609
[23:38]  * asac looks
[23:45] <asac> pochu: (on liferea) but the presence of the option makes it difficult to remove ... what does that mean
[23:49] <pochu> asac: I think they mean the presence of the option in liferea's preferences, but I'll have to check it
[23:49] <pochu> I don't have libnotify enabled so I'm not sure
[23:49] <pochu> will try to have a look tomorrow
[23:49] <asac> which option?
[23:50] <asac> "presence of the option" - what option? what do you control with that? enable/disable notifications?
[23:50] <pochu> the preference option->yes
[23:50] <pochu> and the notifications have actions in it
[23:50] <pochu> like "mark those new items as read" and things like that
[23:50] <asac> i understand that part.
[23:51] <asac> for me "option" was not defined at all in the bug ... could be any option
[23:51] <asac> so lets assume its "enable/disable" notification optoin
[23:51] <asac> let me reread
[23:52] <pochu> Liferea has a “Show a popup window with new headlines.” option that is on by default
[23:52] <asac> pochu: heh
[23:52] <asac> true
[23:52] <pochu> it's cleary the preference option in the GUI tab, isn't it?
[23:52]  * asac rereads ;)
[23:52] <pochu> :)
[23:52] <pochu> s/cleary/clearly/
[23:53] <asac> pochu: so this bug is about removing action buttons
[23:53] <asac> why all the rest of this info?
[23:53] <asac> i mean its fine, but it isnt related to the bug ;)
[23:53] <asac> or am i missing the connection?
[23:54] <asac> so notifications are "These are annoying and unusable" ... because you get flooded ... now we remove actions which doesnt fix the flood ;)
[23:54] <asac> pochu: so are those libnotify notifications?
[23:55] <pochu> asac: yes
[23:56] <pochu> "Instead, the buttons should be made conditional on whether the notification server supports actions."
[23:56] <pochu> that's the key
[23:56] <pochu> the notification-daemon specification doesn't guarantee the daemon will support Actions
[23:56] <pochu> so the application (liferea) should check that the daemon does, and if so it can use Actions
[23:56] <pochu> there's an API to check that
[23:57] <pochu> but liferea currently doesn't check it, it just uses Actions unconditionally
[23:57] <pochu> the Dx team plans to change notification-daemon to not provide Actions support, so those apps that don't check if there's support for them will be buggy
[23:58] <pochu> those are bugs in the apps because of the spec says they need to check that
[23:58] <pochu> so that's what we need to fix :)
[23:59]  * pochu -> bed, g'night!