/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/02/13/#ubuntu-motu.txt

mok0mrooney: don't worry about it00:00
=== santiago-pgsql is now known as santiago-ve
mrooneymok0: ahh I see, those are the individual debs for each arch?00:10
mok0mrooney: yes, they need to be approved too00:19
mrooneyI see, how glorious00:19
mrooneyI should start checking out other needs-packaging requests when I have time00:20
mrooneyis that a good place to start MOTU contributions?00:20
mok0mrooney: yes packaging from scratch is good, but so is doing bug-work00:22
mok0mrooney: the current trend is to move focus away from packaging-new-packages to maintaining what we have00:23
mok0mrooney: merges, syncs...00:24
mrooneyahh okay, I guess I should learn about harvest more, that would help in finding bugs and patches and such?00:24
mok0mrooney: getting -0ubuntu* packages into Debian00:24
mrooneyyeah also that, is there a guide for getting an ubuntu package into Debian? I haven't been able to find one on my own00:25
mok0mrooney: yes that should be an important part of your application00:25
mok0mrooney: you should maintain a MOTU diary so you can keep track of what you've done00:25
mrooneyahh okay, I guess I can blog and tag them with 'motu'00:26
vorianmok0: thanks for reviewing all those plasmoids <300:27
=== _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde
dolanorback01:06
dolanormok0: updated the hexdiff package with your comments solved :)01:07
dolanorhttp://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hexdiff01:07
mok0dolanor: great01:07
mok0vorian: you're welcome :-) ScottK owes me now01:08
mok0vorian: or you perhaps  8)01:08
vorian:)01:11
xooxHow can I automatically backport a package that requires many (backported) dependencies?01:24
rhpot1991hey guys question about debian/watch file, I made this code just for ubuntu and its host on bzr, do I need a debian/watch file?02:01
lifelessrhpot1991: yes, at this point02:02
lifelessrhpot1991: because, there are automated tools that read the package and look for updates02:02
rhpot1991lifeless: any way for it to play nice with bzr?02:03
lifelessrhpot1991: not yet, though I'm sure patches would be appreciated :)02:03
lifelessjames_w: which reminds me, upstream integration++02:03
nhandlerYou can also use a get-orig-source rule which might work better with bzr02:03
lifelessnhandler: good point02:04
nhandlerI think there are some examples on the wiki about how to do that02:04
rhpot1991nhandler: you can do that within the watch file?02:05
rhpot1991I have that in my debian/rules already02:05
nhandlerlifeless: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think a watch file is a strict requirement. It is just recommend that you have a watch file *or* get-orig-source rule02:06
rhpot1991nhandler: its reported as a "wishlist" from lintian02:06
lifelessnhandler: I don't recall; I was wondering what REVU will say myself02:06
lifelessI'm also not sure what the automated analsis tools do02:06
lifelessdo they try get-orig-source, or only look at watch02:07
nhandlerlifeless: I know the REVU warning says get-orig-source or watch file02:07
nhandlerlifeless: The stuff on qa.ubuntuwire only uses the watch files iirc02:07
RAOF_lifeless: The UEHS only looks at the watch file; bzr-buildpackage uses either.02:07
nhandlerThe issue with get-orig-source is that developers have different opinions about how it works. This means that it is not consistant accross all packages02:08
lifelessnhandler: when it even exists :P02:08
RAOF_Yes; that is annoying.02:08
lifelessit would be nice for watch to handle vcs *upstreams*02:08
RAOF_lifeless: Why?  Presumably there's a new upstream revision almost immediately.  Doesn't that make the watch file much less useful?02:09
RAOF_Hooray for capped internet.  apt thinks it'll be another hour before it's finished updating the package lists.02:09
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
lifelessRAOF_: I don't see why an upstream release branch would be any less frequent than an upstream tarball site02:09
RAOFThat's not the normal case of VCS packaging, though.  I don't think I've ever touched a packaged-from-VCS package that pulled from a release branch.02:10
lifelessRAOF: maybe because we make packaging from VCS harder than it should be, so its only used with 'give me crack' packages02:12
rhpot1991this may be silly but how the heck do I get a file in the downloads section of my LP project then?02:12
lifelessRAOF: certainly some upstreams do daily tarballs and we tend to ignore those in watch files :P02:13
lifelessrhpot1991: there is an upload button in the series02:13
RAOFlifeless: Fair enough.  And having a nice, standard way to describe 'tarball is pulled from release branch' would be a step in that direction.02:13
nhandlerRAOF: You can specify a vcs branch in debian/control02:14
lifelessrhpot1991: or I thought there was02:14
lifelessrhpot1991: ask on #launchpad :)02:14
RAOFnhandler: No, you're thinking of packaging-in-vcs, not packaging-of-vcs-upstream, right?02:14
RAOFrhpot1991: You first need to make a release, then you can upload to that release.02:14
nhandlerRAOF: Right02:15
RAOFnhandler: Whereas we're talking about pulling the upstream source from a vcs branch.02:15
nhandlerYeah, I caught that after I sent the message02:15
RAOFAlthough, strictly speaking, I don't think you _can_ specify an (abritrary) branch in the VCS field; there's no format for git.02:17
xooxHow can I automatically backport a package that requires many (backported) dependencies?02:21
rhpot1991thanks RAOF, lifeless02:21
RAOFxoox: You need to first backport the dependencies.02:21
xooxRAOF: That's not very practical is it?02:22
nhandlerxoox:02:23
nhandlerAre you sure all of the Dependencies need to be backported for it to work?02:23
xooxnhandler: Yes02:23
RAOFxoox: In what way is it impractical?02:23
xooxRAOF: There are many dependencies. I detest unnecessary work (backporting each package manually). Proof that the work is unnecessary is that other package managers do it automatically.02:25
RAOFxoox: Maybe you're talking about something different to what we think you are talking about.02:26
RAOFxoox: What is it that you actually want to do?02:26
xooxRAOF: I want to backport a package that has dependencies that need to be packported. If there a N packages in total I want to do 1 'manual' step, not N.02:27
RAOFxoox: What package?  What, exactly, do you mean by 'backport'?  Why do you need to backport the dependencies?02:27
xooxRAOF: It doesn't matter but the package is sagemath.02:28
xooxIt is in jaunty I want it in Intrepid.02:28
RAOFOk.  And what dependencies need backporting02:29
RAOFSo, we are talking about the same thing.02:30
xooxI imagine all the math libs. But I guess that is the first problem. It seems I have to manually determine that (I shouldn't have to).02:30
rhpot1991"Warning! This package could not be extracted; there's no browseable directory for it on REVU"02:30
rhpot1991do I need to worry about that?02:30
xooxRAOF: We are talking about the same thing but seemingly have different expectations on how things should work.02:31
RAOFxoox: So, what I would do is take the Jaunty source package and try to build it in an Intrepid environment.02:31
RAOFxoox: If that works, great, no further backporting required.  If it doesn't, then we need to backport one or more dependencies.02:31
RAOFxoox: How would you expect this to work?02:32
xooxRAOF: package-builder sage-math -> fetches and builds all dependencies. Have you ever used pacman or emerge?02:32
RAOFNo, and it's not a good fit for Ubuntu.02:33
RAOFI'm not sure why you'd want to (re)build all the dependencies.02:33
xooxRAOF: I'm talking about a very narrow feature (not the entire packaging system). When packaging dependencies should be retrieved and built automatically.02:34
xooxRAOF: I only want to rebuild the ones that need to be rebuilt.02:34
RAOFHow do you determine the ones that need to be rebuilt?02:34
xooxRAOF: A first stab would be intrepid depends on version X and jaunty depends on version Y > X.02:35
rhpot1991if there are any motu's around this should be a pretty easy one: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=508202:35
nhandlerrhpot1991: I'll take a look02:35
xooxtherefore package source needs to be fetched and rebuilt.02:35
RAOFxoox: Sounds like a prevu feature request.  You can probably provide a patch :)02:36
rhpot1991nhandler: thanks02:36
xooxEverytime I bring this up people seem to get defensive and 'apologist'. I can't understand why this doesn't appeal to anyone else.02:37
RAOFBecause it's not something that we do a lot, and generally needing to backport dependencies rules out actually doing the backport.02:37
RAOFxoox: It might be a useful feature for prevu.  But it's just not very commonly useful, at least for us.02:38
jdongI've considerd that idea02:39
RAOFThat's why it hasn't been implemented already.02:39
xooxjdong: And rejected it?02:39
jdongit's always failed in my imagination because I can think of and find in the repo, cases where it'd result in a chain of dependencies02:40
jdonga chain that will basically pull in half of Jaunty02:40
jdongthe alternate approach I've considered is forcibly ignoring build-deps and seeing if the build fails02:40
jdongif not then good02:40
xooxjdong: A chain that wouldn't happen by manually backporting?02:40
jdongif so, then follow to next level of deps02:40
jdongand repeat.02:40
jdongxoox: a human backporter is assumed to be smarter at figuring out if a build-dep is serious or a transition-tool during development of the distro02:41
rhpot1991I see some typos on the details.py page, is there someone who I should alert about these?02:41
jdongI'm open to the above recursive level-by-level giving in of pulling build deps from Jaunty02:41
jdongbut I'm not open to just-follow-the-build-deps-till-it-stops02:41
jdongthere's something called dist-upgrade for that ;-)02:41
nhandlerrhpot1991: The details.py page on REVU?02:41
rhpot1991nhandler: yes02:42
rhpot1991nhandler: I see an issue in lintian for what I just pointed you at too, I'm gonna fix that quick now02:42
nhandlerrhpot1991: File a bug about it on Launchpad. launchpad.net/revu02:43
xooxjdong: I think following the deps would be okay as long as it prompted you: "You are going to fetch and build X packages. Yes/No"02:43
nhandlerrhpot1991: Good, I was going to comment on that ;)02:43
rhpot1991nhandler: should it be 1.0 there?02:43
nhandlerrhpot1991: version=302:43
xooxIn an ideal world it would just be like apt but building from source.02:43
nhandlerrhpot1991: Read the uscan man page02:43
rhpot1991nhandler: on it, thanks02:44
jdongxoox: the problem right now is prevu does not have its own dep parser.02:45
xooxIgnoring build-deps seems imprudent. They are there for a reason and the package creator probably expects those dependencies to be fulfilled.02:45
jdongxoox: I can tell you as a backporter that 95% of build deps are for transitional rebuilds02:46
xooxjdong: There is a python apt library no?02:46
xooxWhat is a "transitional" rebuild exactly?02:46
jdongxoox: what good does that do for build-deps?02:46
jdongxoox: it's when I just uploaded libfoo 1.0->1.1, and now I want to rebuild foo using libfoo-1.102:46
jdongif I just say "rebuild foo", depending on archive propagation state it could build against the old 1.0 or new 1.102:47
jdongso I put in an explicit build-dep on >=1.1 to make sure the build waits until it can build against the new version.02:47
jdongthe only reason I put in the build dep is for that force-rebuild. Other than that the old 1.0 would work just fine.02:47
xooxjdong: I see.02:48
jdongin cases where a build-dep is intentional, the ./configure script should check for it explicitly and the changelog should yell.02:48
jdongat least I've been asking for the changelog to yell and people have been nodding :)02:48
jdongand python-apt really doesn't get me much further, I still have to parse build-deps02:49
jdongIt's not too much work to grab diff.gz's for build-dep lists and implement a parser02:49
jdongI mean, that's what pbuilder-satisfydepends is02:49
jdongbut I guess so far I haven't been troubled by hunting down build-deps to the poitn that I want to invest my effort towards this feature02:50
xooxjdong: What is the probability of try-build-without-deps-rebuild scheme being implemented?02:53
jdongxoox: lim(P_implement(year), year -> +infty) = 1.00002:54
jdonguntil someone blesses me with free time, I don't know at what point the 0->1 transition occurs :)02:54
jdong(read: Contribute patches for this behavior)02:54
jdongxoox: at the same time I'd like the diff.gz's to be grabbed first for a dry-run dependency check before the entire source package is grabbed.02:55
jdongthat way we don't have things like downloading 50TB for OpenOffice to figure out build-deps fail02:55
xooxjdong: Do you work for canonical?02:57
jdongno, I don't :)02:57
xooxWell, thanks for explaining the issues to me. Here's hoping free time blesses us all.03:00
jdong:) anyimte.03:00
jdongtime.03:00
jdongstupid new keyboard03:00
=== fabrice_sp_ is now known as fabrice_sp
dholbachgood morning06:23
dholbachpersia, soren: awake? :)06:35
persiaYes.  Where are we having this meeting?06:35
dholbach#u-meeting06:35
dholbachgeser, nixternal: I know you're likely not going to be there, but I'll try anyway: there? :)06:36
RAOFOh.  motu meeting?06:36
dholbachMC Meeting06:36
RAOFAh.  Not so immediately interesting to me, then :)06:37
persiaRAOF, You want a MOTU meeting?  I think the next one isn't scheduled, so if you've something to discuss, please call for one.  It's been a couple weeks.06:41
RAOFpersia: No, not really.  Its just that if there was one on, I could actually turn up!06:41
persiaheh.06:41
ScottKdholbach: What time is the meeting?06:45
dholbachScottK: 7 utc06:45
ScottKWho's on the agenda for this one?  Is it vorian or is he the next meeting?06:46
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting06:46
persiaHe's for the next meeting.06:46
dholbachScottK: didrocks, huats and Laney06:47
* dholbach gets another cup of coffee06:47
ScottKThanks06:48
didrockshey dholbach !06:52
dholbachhiya didrocks06:52
emgentmorning people06:55
huatsmorning06:55
* iulian waves06:55
didrocksmorning emgent & iulian06:57
a|wenhow is it, that you split a bug out to track the status for multiple releases at a time? ... do you need to do a nominate for release, or is there another way?07:27
ScottKThat's it.07:27
ScottKWith that, /me goes to bed.07:28
a|wenthx07:28
pochubah I'm late for the meeting :(07:49
dholbacharnegoetje asked me for help with the ibus-* packages on REVU07:51
dholbachI'll poke a few of them today - can anybody else help out too?07:51
pochudholbach: you were right! I got 85/120 in the TOEFL (and I needed ~80 or even +70)!! :)07:56
* dholbach hugs pochu07:56
dholbachROCK07:56
dholbachcongratulations!07:56
pochumy reading and writing saved me ;)07:56
pochuthanks :)07:56
didrockspochu: really? TOEFL in not on 990?07:57
didrocksoh, it was TOEIC, not TOEFL :)07:58
pochudidrocks: I hope it's not ;)07:58
didrockspochu: :D07:58
pochuor you will make me sad07:58
pochu:)07:58
didrocksno no, it was for TOEIC (I had to pass both of them :))07:58
pochudidrocks: I arrived late for the meeting... have you been processed already?07:59
didrockspochu: yep, it's done for me :)07:59
didrocksand everything was all right ;)07:59
pochudidrocks: cool! congrats :)07:59
didrockspochu: thanks ^^08:00
pochudidrocks: and Laney is last?08:00
didrockspochu: exactly08:00
dholbachLaney: awake?08:03
jonoheaded to bed, night everyone!08:18
dholbachnight jon08:18
dholbachjono :)08:18
lidaobingdholbach, hello, I am the packager of ibus-*08:19
dholbachlidaobing: ah great08:19
lidaobingI want to reply some question (not all)08:19
lidaobing1. why don't package ibus 1.1, ibus 1.1 change too much from ibus 0.1.1.*, and there is not enough time to package it for ubuntu 9.0408:20
lidaobingso I will package 0.1.1 for ubuntu 9.04 and ibus 1.1 for ubuntu 9.10 and 9.04-backport08:20
dholbachok08:21
lidaobingdholbach, and any suggested repos position for packaging?08:21
lidaobingI use lp:~lidaobing/+junk/<pkgname>, and I have no idea for any better postion08:22
dholbachlidaobing: I dunno... +junk just seemed like temporary :)08:22
lidaobingdholbach, I think it just means this repos does not link to a project08:23
dholbachis there a team already that takes care of the packaging of those input methods08:23
dholbachlidaobing: maybe talk to Arne about it08:23
dholbachit's not a blocker, just something I wondered about08:23
lidaobingit should be link to ubuntu project, but ubuntu does not support this08:23
lidaobingdholbach, I will fix other problems soon, thanks for your review.08:23
dholbach~inputmethod-pkg/ibus-hangul/ubuntu maybe? I'll leave it up to you :)08:24
lidaobingdholbach, I will have a look08:24
lidaobingdholbach, whois Arne?08:25
=== BugMaN1 is now known as BugMaN
dholbachlidaobing: oh, I thought you had worked with ArneGoetje already08:25
lidaobingdholbach, got it, Arne Goetje <arne@ubuntu.com>08:26
=== Juli__ is now known as Juli_
aradidrocks: congrats!08:44
didrocksajmitch_: thanks :)09:40
Laneydholbach: ...09:44
LaneyI had it in my head that it was 7pm09:44
* dholbach hugs Laney09:44
dholbachpersia, soren: ^09:44
sorenLaney: Aw.. Well, you're up again in two weeks :)09:45
dholbachI was just about to ask if you guys had time for an impromptu meeting :-)09:45
Laney no worries if you don't, completely my fault09:46
Laneysorry chaps09:46
sorenIf we keep it under 20 minutes, I'm cool with it.09:46
dholbachpersia: Señor Hikory? :)09:47
dholbachgeser: maybe you're available now too? :)09:47
persiaEstoy muy distraído09:49
proppypersia: ukeru09:50
persia(and I'm secretly glad because I only reviewed about half as many patches as I would have preferred).09:50
LaneyI thought "Man I'll have a nice lie-in so I'm fresh for the meeting this *evening*"09:51
directhex:(09:51
* Laney sprints off into the sunset, never to be seen again09:51
geserdholbach: yes, I'm available09:51
dholbachgeser, soren, Laney: shall we take the plunge and head to #ubuntu-meeting?09:51
persiaOK.  That's 3 1/2 of us.  Let's do it.09:52
dholbachrock on09:52
* Laney shreds09:52
pochudholbach: whereabouts?10:15
dholbachpochu: hu?10:15
pochudholbach: Laney's application :)10:16
pochuor is it already done?10:16
dholbachpochu: there's the IRC Council meeting going on right now10:16
Laneynoe, at 1110:16
pochuoh, so 45 minutes10:16
pochuok :)10:16
DaveMorrisHi, I'm trying to track down the cause of a problem in Ubuntu with the QtBrowserPlugin example.  It works fine on Debian but not on Ubuntu.  Is there an easy way (rather than manually) to see which libraries it uses (from ldd) are different from the Debian ones.  IE Which packages have had modifications rather than been direct copies from Debian?10:18
persiaDaveMorris, The version numbers would tell you, as Ubuntu libraries tend to have "ubuntu" in the revision string.10:19
DaveMorrischeers, I've no idea whats causing it not to work on Ubuntu but would be nice to fix it.  Since we are creating a 3D browser plugin for Geko based browsers10:21
LaneyDaveMorris: You can see the patch Ubuntu applied on http://patches.ubuntu.com10:23
Laney(or linked from the PTS afaik)10:23
Koondidrocks: congrats!10:36
=== thekorn__ is now known as thekorn
Koonhuats: congrats!10:51
huatsthanks Koon10:51
jpdshuats: congrats, mate :)11:03
huatsjpds:  thanks my friend11:10
Rafikhuats> toutes mes félicitations  !11:19
huatsRafik: thanks !11:20
mok0huats: felicitations!11:21
huatsthanks mok011:21
mok0didrocks: congrat!!11:21
james_wcongratulations didrocks11:23
james_wet tu huats11:23
huatsmerci james_w11:23
lidaobingdholbach, can you review ibus-hangul again, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5090 (I have come back home from work, so I can response ASAP)11:27
huatspersia: are you still around ?11:28
persiaNot really, but I should be around in about half an hour.11:31
dholbachhum11:32
dholbachdoes Mootbot still spit out meeting summaries?11:32
dholbachwww.novarata.net/mootboot has no meeting entries from Feb-200911:33
LaneyI never figured it out when we used it for u-uk meetings11:36
dholbachI just asked in #ubuntu-scribes11:37
lidaobingdholbach, ibus-anthy is also been uploaded again, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=509111:37
jpdsdholbach: I've contacted the person who runs it in #ubuntu-irc.11:38
dholbachlidaobing: I'll take a look in a bit - can you make the same changes to the other packages as well? was ibus-table unarchived again?11:38
dholbachjpds: perfect - thanks muchly11:38
lidaobingdholbach, OK11:38
dholbachLaney: seems I'm not admin of ubuntu-universe-sponsors11:38
dholbachsorry11:38
Laneyno probs11:39
* Laney pokes TheMuso11:39
Laneycan you add me to u-u-s?11:39
directhexso... is it done? is Laney infused with added awesome?11:40
* Laney is positively effervescent11:40
a|wenif I have a package in the archive (varnish on hardy) that i want to prepare an SRU for; but the package is (probably in error) uploaded as a native package (varnish_1.0.3-2.tar.gz), how should i then go about it? ... keep it as a native package, or do i have other optoins?11:42
huatshey Laney11:42
huatswhat happened this morning ?11:42
LaneyI got the time 12 hours wrong11:42
huatsdholbach: persia is the one who can add to u-u-s ?11:42
huatsbecause I'd like to be added to it...11:43
Laneyand TheMuso and DktrKranz11:43
huatsLaney: oh :(11:43
Laneyhuats: It's ok now!11:43
huatscongrats !!!11:43
huatsI haven't seen it :)11:43
Laneythanks muchly11:43
huatsyou deserve it !11:44
mok0Laney!!! Woot!11:45
huatsLaney: do you take care of the glom update or do you want me to do it ?11:45
Laneyhuats: I don't mind11:46
Laneybut what do you think to VCS packaging for it?11:46
huatsLaney: I am in favor :)11:47
Laneycool beans11:47
huatsI know didrocks did quite a lot of stuffs based on james_w work11:47
huatswe should ask him...11:47
Laneyprobably a good idea11:47
huatsLaney: I have some stuffs to finish11:48
james_wcongratulations Laney11:48
mok0Laney: congrats11:48
huatsif by the middle of next week you haven't touched it, I will have a look11:48
Laneythanks!11:48
directhexyay Laney11:49
Laneyand from my LP profile it looks like I've been a member for ages11:49
Laneysince I was accidently added in August11:49
didrockshum? :)11:49
Laneydidrocks: We want to get the glom package into VCS11:49
didrocksLaney: you can have a look to the email announcing my MOTUship, there is the log of the conversation and we discussed about that11:50
didrocksLaney: if you need more clue, do not hesitate :)11:50
huatsdidrocks: we won'"t hesitate... you know that :)11:50
Laney\o11:51
didrockshuats: from you? I'm sure of it :)11:51
didrocksdholbach: persia : same question as huats for u-u-s :)11:54
dholbachdidrocks: not an admin, excuser-moi11:54
didrocksdholbach: *excusez* :p11:54
persiaAdding both of you now...11:55
Laney(and me please)11:55
didrocks(dholbach: and don't ask me to speak Deutch as a revenge ^^)11:55
dholbachdidrocks: thanks for the correction :)11:55
mok0james_w: more and more often, people have their sources in VCS's and do not release tarballs, so the whole idea of the debian/watch file is defeated. Right now I am look at a package where the sources are in LP, and it is quite unsatisfactory that there is no way to do a "uscan --report-status" to see if the code is current. Do you have an idea on how to deal with this?11:55
dholbachmaybe I'll get it .......... one day11:55
huatsthanks persia11:56
persiaLaney, Sure.11:56
didrocksdholbach: everyone can understand, that's not an issue :)11:56
james_wmok0: the VCS can tell you if it is current, so perhaps we should come up with a way to allow the VCS to tell you11:56
mok0james_w: that would be really nice11:57
mok0james_w: in the current case, I can see that the ~bzrNN number which is part of the package name corresponds to the latest commit.11:58
brooniebut then you're back to requiring some intelligence to assess if upstream should be packaged.11:58
mok0broonie: yes it is a whole new ballgame11:59
dholbacha world without tarballs........... one day :)12:00
mok0broonie: I predict more and more projects will have sliding releases12:00
mok0dholbach: exactly12:00
dholbachmok0: I don't think it's a necessarily a frightening scenario - WDYT? :)12:00
mok0dholbach: oh, no, not frightening, it just doesn't fit very well into our current methodology12:01
dholbachthat's definitely right12:02
mok0and we might as well start to think about alternative strategies12:02
dholbachit'd just be sweet if we eliminated the "no shared history" problem wrt branches as we approach them today :)12:02
mok0Yes12:03
dholbacheven if future debian/rules (or whatever it might be) have to call auto tools or something12:03
mok0I agree12:03
mok0Well, we need an abstraction layer on top of all the various building methods people use; rules is as good as any12:03
didrockspersia: thanks :)12:03
dholbachit'll be a glorious and sun-shiny day that happens :)12:04
mok0Ah, Question: What is the best thing about reviewing packages from REVU???12:04
mok0Answer: You get to type the following often: "less rules" and "less control"12:05
voriandidrocks, Laney, contrats :)12:05
dholbachmok0: haha :)12:05
didrocksthanks vorian ;)12:06
mok0Of course that's another reason for using "less" over "more" :-)12:06
Tonio_mok0: got a response from skrooge upstream, last update should fix the issue.... I'll look and let you know for revu12:06
mok0Tonio_: Super!12:06
Laneyvorian: thanks12:07
Laneygood luck to you next time!12:07
mok0Skrooge upstream = Uncle Scrooge" ??12:07
vorianLaney: danke!12:07
* mok0 < lunch12:08
=== Rafik_ is now known as Rafik
voriandidrocks: if you truely want to help us on our next release, we will start work on Feb 25/26th on 4.2.112:11
voriani will need to walk you through our work flow :)12:12
didrocksvorian: just after the bug jub? Great! Which channel you advise me to join? ninja's one? :)12:12
TheMusoLaney: ?12:14
LaneyTheMuso: Never mind, it's sorted now12:14
Laney(I just saw that you were an admin of u-u-s)12:14
voriandidrocks: see your server window "_12:14
freeflyinghow can I advocate a package on revu? thanks12:35
Vest84mok0: hi, you've asked me to add manpage to my package (using manpage.1.ex). if I'm a developer of my software, can I add the page into .orig. package, or I still should use as you said debian/quod.1 directory?12:36
freeflyingVest84: prefer to add it into upstream12:36
freeflying:)12:36
persiafreeflying, If the account system is working properly, you should get an advocation checkbox next to the comment box.12:36
Vest84freeflying: thanks. it means it's better to add man for other distributions, not only to ubuntu. yes?12:38
freeflyingpersia: I login, but no such chechbox :)12:38
persiafreeflying, Hrm.  Let me check.12:38
freeflyingVest84: if you can add it into upstream, then any other distro may benefit from it12:38
freeflyingpersia: thanks, dude :)12:38
persiaWhat's your LP ID again?12:39
freeflyingpersia: zhengpeng.hou@gmail.com12:39
Vest84freeflying: "thanks, dude" :) (again)12:39
freeflyingVest84: welcome :)12:40
persiafreeflying, You have *three* LP accounts.  You ought merge them :)12:41
persiafreeflying, Try reloading the page, and tell me if the advocation option appears now.12:41
freeflyingpersia: got it, thanks12:42
hyperairi never knew it was possible to have multiple LP accounts, let alone merge them12:43
vorianhyperair: i think they are talking about REVU accounts12:44
* vorian was guilty of having two12:45
nhandlerhyperair: You can merge multiple LP accounts here https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge12:45
persiahyperair, You do it by doing things with LP with multiple email addresses, and not telling LP about them beforehand.  Merging just cleans up.12:45
hyperairvorian: i never knew that you could even have multiple revu accounts12:45
persiavorian, No, multiple LP accounts.12:45
vorianokie12:45
persiahyperair, When REVU switched to using LP accounts, people with legacy accounts needed to merge.12:45
hyperairi see12:46
nhandlerpersia: You saw that REVU admins can now merge accounts for people, right?12:46
persianhandler, I didn't, but that only helps with REVU.  The multiple accounts I discovered was in LP.12:47
persianhandler, Only one of the accounts is used for REVU, but tracking down which took me a couple minutes.12:47
a|wenif I have a package (varnish on hardy) that is in error uploaded as a native package (varnish_1.0.3-2.tar.gz) ... what should i then do with the next version; keep it as native, or get the original tarball to make it a non-native package?12:49
hyperairblargh geeez why is evolution taking so long to compile12:49
pochu_Laney: congrats!12:51
Laneythanks pochu!12:51
freeflyingdholbach: you would like have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5103 and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5102 again?12:52
persiaa|wen, Make it non-native with the next upstream version.12:52
dholbachfreeflying: can you ask ArneGoetje to review them too, right now I'm a bit hammered, but willing to check them out later today12:52
* dholbach is really crazy busy12:52
a|wenpersia: thx... i'll do that12:53
freeflyingdholbach: ok12:53
persiaOh, excellent.  Issue 222 is resolved!12:54
a|wenpersia: oh, new upstream relese. it is on hardy, so that want happen... so for an SRU i shoud keep it as native?12:54
persiaa|wen, SRU for new upstream is rare and hard, but do keep that native: the goal is to minimise the debdiff for SRUs.12:55
a|wenpersia: i thought so ... but there will be no debdiffs with a native version, so you could call that minimal ;)12:56
persiaa|wen, You can generate a debdiff on a native package.  It is more likely to fail to apply due to binary blobs, but it can be done.12:56
persiaThe goal is to minimize the changes, to address known issues.  Exactly what that means is open to intepretation, but changing the method of packaging is usually not recommended.12:57
a|wenpersia: oh, i didn't know that, i'll give it a try12:57
mok0 Vest84, I was AFK for a while... of course, you can put your manpage in the tarball! Good idea!12:58
Vest84mok0: ok, I'm working on it :) studying13:00
mok0Vest84: let me know if you need any help13:01
pochu_looks like we are on a killing spree!13:02
pochu_4 MOTUs in a row ;)13:02
=== pochu_ is now known as pochu
Vest84mok0: thank you in forward13:08
mok0pochu: are they killing MOTUs now? Oh, the horror!13:08
mok0pochu: users are getting more and more demanding13:09
mok0Who has admin rights to ubuntu-motu mailing list?13:11
sorenI do.13:11
mok0soren: can I ask you to approve a message I sent? I used my ubuntu email address and I am not subscribed with that13:12
sorenmok0: It's not in the queue.13:12
sorendholbach might have already approved it. He's like that.13:12
mok0soren: huh? It sent me a message that it's held for approval13:12
sorenThis is where you say: "But it's only been two minutes since I sent it", and I go: "Yes, he's like that. I just told you."13:13
dholbachnothing in the queue13:13
dholbachsorry guys13:13
mok0I sent it 2 hours ago13:13
dholbachdidn't it go through?13:14
pochumok0: was it a reply to nhandler's mail?13:14
pochuIf so, I saw it13:14
mok0Ah it did, sorry13:14
pochumok0: too much ET for me :)13:15
mok0No it was a reply to the guy who sent a patch to ical2sqlite13:15
pochuthat one too ;)13:15
mok0Where's quadripro? I want to shake his virtual hand13:16
c_kornis there a dput option to ommit the upload of the orig.tar.gz file?13:17
persiac_korn, No.  Whether the orig.tar.gz is uploaded or not is determined by the content of the .changes file.13:19
c_kornok, but uploading to the PPAs of launchpad I do not have to upload the orig.tar.gz again when it is already uploaded. but it has to be listed in the changes file to compare the checksums13:20
a|wenpersia: if i try to do a debdiff on the native package i just get a lot of "Use of uninitialized value ... in /usr/bin/debdiff ..."13:21
slytherinc_korn: when you do 'debuild' use only argument -S instead of -S -sa.13:21
mok0c_korn: I was gonna suggest that too13:22
persiaa|wen, How are you calling it?13:23
a|wenpersia: "debdiff varnish_1.0.3-2.dsc varnish_1.0.3-2ubuntu0.8.04.dsc"13:24
persiac_korn, the checksum needs to be listed in the .dsc file, but not in the .changes (unless you're uploading it).13:24
persiaa|wen, And both unpack cleanly with dpkg-source?  Very odd.13:25
persiaa|wen, What happens if you unpack both trees, and run diff -urN on the top-level directories?13:25
directhexLaney, how does the MOTU wizard's robe & hat feel?13:29
a|wenpersia: both unpack fine, and i get a diff out by running the command13:29
c_kornI don't know what the difference is, but when I now run dput -f ... it wants to upload the orig.tar.gz13:29
persiac_korn, Look at your source.changes file.  Is the orig.tar.gz listed therein?13:30
c_kornyes13:30
mok0c_korn: _What_ file are you trying to upload?13:30
persiaHow did you call debuild?13:31
c_korndebuild -S13:31
c_korndput -f ppa-getdeb scilab_5.1-1~ppa2_source.changes13:31
persiaWhat is the revision number?13:31
persiaI suspect you've hit a condition designed to reduce mistakes in Debian :)13:32
persiac_korn, Try calling debuild -S -sd13:32
=== LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox
c_kornI tried that before. then the orig.tar.gz is not uploaded but the PPA rejects the package because the orig.tar.gz is missing, (the entry in sources.changes [or dsc] is required for checksums I presume)13:34
slytherinc_korn: was orig.tar.gz ever uploaded to your PPA?13:34
c_kornyes13:34
a|wenugly... the source contains a .svn directory, which doesn't get included in the new .tar.gz ...gives me a huge diff13:34
c_kornoh, wait13:34
c_korndamn, I am dumb. I deleted the package in the PPA. the orig.tar.gz does not exist so. sorry for bothering you13:36
a|wenpersia: is there any way i can get the .svn directory to stay in the source when the .tar.gz is being rebuild by debuild? or is it okay to let the .svn directory go?13:41
persiaa|wen, How are you calling debuild?13:46
a|wenpersia: just "debuild -S"13:47
persiaTry debuild -i/^$/13:47
persiaSounds like someone turned on -i with the default string by default, which would normally be a rather reasonable thing to do.13:48
a|wenpersia: no luck, still the same13:50
sorena|wen: Native package?13:55
a|wensoren: yes13:55
sorena|wen: Then -i doesn't factor into it.13:55
soren-i specifies stuff that should be left out of the diff.gz.13:56
soren-I is for leaving stuff out of the orig.tar.gz.13:56
sorenWell.. Or the tar.gz, anyway13:57
soren(it's not an orig.tar.gz in the case of native packages)13:57
a|wensoren: thanks a lot, that was the trick13:58
sorenAny time.13:58
a|wennow it at least only fiddles with the config.sub and config.guess; that should be okay i suppose13:58
sorenI'm curious... Why do you want to leave the .svn directory in there?13:59
a|wensoren: it is an update to a hardy package ... build in error as a native by debian13:59
persiaa|wen, If config.sub and config.guess are copied at build time or clean time, yes, it's safe to ignore that part of the debdiff.  If someone complains, point out that it's automated, and changing the automation would be a larger change.13:59
a|wenpersia: they are copied at build-time, just checked debian/rules ... so agreed14:00
slytherincan any archive admin please process sync of xmlgraphics-commons from experimental? I am waiting for it to happen to work on fop merge. Bug 326172.14:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 326172 in xmlgraphics-commons "Please sync xmlgraphics-commons 1.3.1 (universe) from debian experimental" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32617214:09
persiaFor those watching, it's traditional to request actions of the archive-admins in #ubuntu-devel, rather than here.14:13
directhexand to offer them a pint as a reward14:20
quadrisprohi guys14:20
devfil2quadrispro: congrats14:20
quadrisprothank you :)14:20
mok0quadrispro, congratulations!14:21
quadrisprotoo nice, thank you very much14:21
Laneydirecthex: Dunno, no gpg key here14:24
directhex:o14:25
Laneyquadrispro: congrats14:25
Laneyit is a day of new MOTUs!14:25
directhexhow many of those new MOTUs are going to upload sublib, though? :o14:26
quadrisproLaney: congrats to you too!14:26
Laneyjust one14:27
Laneywho is just awesome14:27
DktrKranzLaney: didrocks, quadrispro: congrats \o/14:27
devfil2Laney: congrats14:28
devfil2Laney: now you are a MOTU, so you can upload your miro merge :)14:28
* Laney shreds his axe14:28
Laneyheh14:28
LaneyI will14:28
Laney(after reviewing it carefully.....)14:28
DktrKranzLaney: no review, just crack! :)14:29
Laneythose damn contributors, you can never be too thorough14:29
Laneyu-u-s queue is huge14:29
mok0quadrispro: just in time for REVU day!14:29
* Laney is scared14:29
quadrisproyes14:29
devfil2Laney: please remember that you can upload it until FF14:29
Laneyof course14:30
DktrKranzand remember, first upload *must* be14:30
DktrKranz1) a sponsor request14:30
DktrKranz2) a SRU14:30
Laneyboth of these things?14:31
DktrKranzone of these :)14:31
Laneyactually I have a long-standing GHC SRU14:32
Laney...........14:32
* Laney cackles14:32
persiaExtra points if it's not only both those things, but also for a bug that affects multiple packages because it's fixing a dependency.14:32
DktrKranzI started with a request for sponsorship for a SRU bug14:32
* devfil2 too14:32
nxvlhuats: congratulations!14:33
huatsThanks nxvl !14:33
mok0vorian?14:33
DktrKranzhuats: indeed! congrats (I forgot about "older" MOTUs)14:34
devfil2huats: congrats14:34
vorianmok0: yus?14:34
mok0vorian, bug 328321  should that be closed?14:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 328321 in amule "amule_2.2.3-1ubuntu1 that fixes (LP: #214100) and (LP: #89672) bugs" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32832114:34
vorianyes14:34
pochuquadrispro: congrats!14:35
mok0vorian: thx I'll do it then14:35
vorianmok0: thanks14:35
quadrisprothank you pochu14:35
mok0vorian: heh funny he closed two bugs bug not his own14:35
vorianthat's what I was just checking, mok0 :)14:36
mok0ok, another one gone from uus14:36
mok0hyperair: bug 328063 are you still on it?14:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 328063 in codelite "CodeLite FTBFS on hppa" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32806314:37
hyperairmok0: no it's done.14:38
hyperairmok0: could you sponsor it please?14:38
mok0hyperair: will do it right awayyy14:38
hyperairokay thanks =)14:38
mok0another one bites the dust14:41
RainCTheya14:42
mok0Hi RainCT, we have 4 new MOTUs with us today14:42
RainCTmok0: Uhm.. EMENOTUNDERSTAND :P14:43
mok0RainCT: go back to sleep14:43
RainCT-.-14:44
mok0;-)14:44
RainCToh14:44
RainCThuats, didrocks: congrats!14:44
RainCTand quadrispro :)14:44
quadrisprothank you RainCT :)14:45
RainCTand Laney14:45
RainCTo.O14:45
RainCTMOTU flood XD14:45
huatsRainCT: thanks !14:45
mok0he woke up14:45
Laney<3 the MC14:45
RainCTmok0: I've just arrived from school, I've headache and I'm still catching up with mail :P14:45
mok0RainCT: j/k14:46
dolanorHello14:46
dolanorIf an upstream package doesn't have any COPYING but every source file has the LGPL header, is it packageable ?14:47
mok0dolanor: no14:47
dolanoreven if the website tells so ?14:48
dolanorhttp://www.hawksoft.com/hawknl/14:48
mok0dolanor: we need a file that allows us to distribute the directory tree14:48
superm1wow 4 new MOTUs. congrats quadrispro Laney huats and didrocks.  sounds like between the 4 of you, you can easily complete the undocumented MOTU initiation tradition of knocking out all the packages on REVU your first day :)14:49
mok0dolanor: ... you are not packaging the website. Just sayin'14:49
dolanormok0: ok, I understand14:49
huats;)14:49
RainCTdolanor: you can repackage the tarball and add the COPYING, as a last resource14:49
huatsBTW, who is no yet involved in the mentoring program  ?14:49
mok0RainCT: ooh, that is on the edge14:49
huatsso that I can add all the new MOTUs :)14:49
dolanorRainCT: the probleme is : the developer doesn't reply to email. Maybe he is dead :/14:50
RainCTmok0: if there is evidence that they want that license then it is accepted14:50
mok0RainCT: well it makes sense, I agree to that14:50
mok0RainCT: but in 5 years, the package might still be around and the website is closed donw14:50
mok0maybe... that's a risk14:51
quadrisprosuperm1: thank you :) Do you remember of w-scan? Do you think we should wait until 16-17th Februray?14:51
superm1quadrispro, didn't that email say it was headed into experimental?14:51
huatsquadrispro: are you interested in joining the MOTU mentoruing program ?14:51
huatssuperm1: same question :)14:51
RainCTmok0: Not sure which effects that would have, but archive admins don't seem worried about this. I think I even have/had some package in Debian where I had to do this..14:51
mok0dolanor: if at all possible, you should try to get upstream to put a COPYING file in $topdir and package a new tarball14:52
superm1quadrispro, if you dont see it in experimental, go ahead and build the package from his svn as we discussed before and we'll sync it later when it gets into experimental.  i think now is fine at this point14:52
mok0RainCT: I see. Well be glad I am not archive admin :-P14:52
quadrisprohuats: it could be exciting, but at the moment I have too many things too, Perhaps, later :)14:52
huatsquadrispro: ok14:52
quadrisprosuperm1: ok, thank you14:52
superm1huats, i'm far too preoccupied with other ubuntu related things to be a mentor, sorry.14:52
huatssuperm1:14:52
quadrispro(huats: congrats to you too :))14:53
huatsand quadrispro: ok14:53
huatsplease do not hesitate to contact me if you change your mind14:53
huatsquadrispro: thanks ! and congrats to you too !!14:53
* RainCT glances at huats 14:53
huatsRainCT why glances ?14:53
mok0RainCT: I was just thinking this morning, to insert another stage between "Unreviewed" and "In progress", namely "Copyright", so all packages that pass through reviewing have to pass a stage where the copyright is affirmed14:54
mok0RainCT: so they would not enter reviewing before the copyright is clarified14:54
mok0PRobably overkill14:55
RainCTmok0: not sure. perhaps that could be done with tags (copyright-pending, copyright-verified, ..). I'll add support for tags soon14:55
mok0RainCT: cool!14:55
quadrisprocould someone add me to universe-sponsors?14:55
mok0RainCT: you have some code for that?14:55
RainCThuats: I'm waiting for someone to be assigned to me :). I'm also happy without a mentee, though :P14:55
RainCTmok0: no, but I'll probably get to it today or this weekend14:55
huatsRainCT: i know14:55
huatsyou are on the list14:56
Laneywhy should copyright be separate from review?14:56
huatsI have a bit too much things to handle14:56
* vorian cheers for huats and quadrispro 14:56
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
RainCTokay, just checking :)14:56
quadrisprovorian: thanks a lot!14:56
huatsso I deal with them in lots :)14:56
Laneythat is one of the major parts of review that people get wrong, isn't it?14:56
huatsRainCT: but don't worry14:56
huats:)14:56
dolanorRainCT: So right now, I try to recontact the upstream dev, and if he doesn't reply, I may be OK to add a COPYING myself and package frome that ? (and email the orig.tar.gz to the dev ?.)14:56
persiaquadrispro, Sure.  Doing so now.14:57
Laneydolanor: It's a bit dubious to add copyright information to someone else's work, imo14:58
mok0Laney: I agree14:58
RainCTdolanor: If it's clear enough (based on headers in files in the tarball, statement on the website, etc), yes. Just asking upstream to add the COPYING file to the next release (or release a new revision of the current one adding it, but NOT replacing the current one if is has already entered a distribution) is enough, personally I'd find receiving a tarball annoying.14:58
quadrisproI see, thank you persia :)14:59
dolanorLaney: yes, for sure ... But it is written nearly everywhere that it is LGPL, but no COPYING file15:00
dolanorI understand because of the source tree15:00
=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
dolanorbut I began this package 3 years ago ... still no answers15:01
slytherinquadrispro: Laney: huats: didrocks: Congratulations. :-)15:02
persiaThere's no requirement that there be a file called "COPYING", but the LGPL source preface does say "You should have received a copy of the license with this code..." (or similar veribiage).15:02
Laneythanks slytherin15:02
huatsthanks slytherin and vorian15:02
dolanorpersia: hmmm, yes, right15:03
RainCTpersia: afaik the package would be rejected without a COPYING file15:03
RainCT(at least in the case of GPL, but I guess LGPL is the same)15:04
slytherinAFAIK, COPYING or LICENSE is required.15:04
persiaRainCT, Nope.  It would be rejected for failure to include the license.  Doesn't matter if it's called "COPYING" or "LGPL" or "LICENSE" or what have you.15:04
RainCTpersia: Right.15:04
slytherinpersia: pm?15:05
bddebianHeya gang15:08
Laneyhi bddebian15:09
bddebianHi Laney, congrats :)15:09
sladenare there any of the ubuntu-mono packagers here15:13
sladenlibtaoframework is still FTBFS;  does it need to depend on cil-2.0 to get System.Windows.Forms?15:13
* ScottK looks around for directhex...15:16
ScottKHe's the one you want.15:16
quadrisprosuperm1: 20081106-3~ubuntu1 could be a good version ?15:16
directhexhm?15:16
quadrisprosuperm1: about w-scan15:16
quadrisprosuperm1: remember that it will be auto-synced since jaunty+115:17
dolanorwhat to do with upstream package with this tree15:18
superm1quadrispro, i thought we had decided it would be something that would still need to be manually synced?15:18
dolanorproject_v2.0.1/project/<root>15:18
dolanorI put the debian dir at the same levec of project ?15:18
chrismurfhi all, would a MOTU mind reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pyproj?  mok0 worked with me on it yesterday and advocated for it, I think it's ready.15:19
RainCTnhandler: merged your branch15:20
mok0hi chrismurf15:20
chrismurfmok0, heya!  Thanks again for the help15:20
chrismurfin hindsight, I think splitting it was the right approach15:21
chrismurfmodifying the debian version now to be split as well15:21
mok0chrismurf: I think so too... did the DDs arrive at the same conclusion?15:21
chrismurfhaven't bugged them about it - just gonna do it and poke them again ;-)15:21
chrismurflike you said, I doubt they'll say no15:22
directhexsladen, tao hasn't seen any love for a while15:22
nxvl!nixternal | nixternal15:23
ubottunixternal: Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Windows7 lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, and help on the MIRC client too! <nixternal> I LOVE MIRC!!!15:23
mok0chrismurf: yeah15:23
nxvlheh15:23
nxvlit has been updated15:23
mok0!nxvl15:24
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about nxvl15:24
mok0ubottu: neither do we15:24
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about neither do we15:24
mok0heh15:24
DktrKranzit's not that funny being on ubottu's list15:25
directhexsladen, gah, it's a mess tbh15:33
directhexhm, nope, it's worse than i thought15:40
tgm4883mok0, I've fixed most of the issues that you commented on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mythnettv  about COPYING.GPL missing, i'm assuming you are asking that because it is referenced in the COPYING file, but that file does not exist anywhere in the orig.tar or on the authors site.  Am I suppose to get that from elsewhere?15:43
mok0tgm4883: It is supposed to pre-exist in upstream's tarball15:44
tgm4883ah15:44
mok0tgm4883: it is that file that gives us the permission to distribute the source tree15:45
tgm4883let me contact upstream then, and see what I can find out15:45
mok0tgm4883: perfect!15:45
Laney[ubuntu/jaunty] miro 2.0-1ubuntu1 (Accepted)15:45
Laneygood times \o/15:45
tgm4883cause he just says use GPL or LGPL in that COPYING file15:45
mok0tgm4883: oh yes he does actually15:46
ScottKtgm4883: It must have a full, verbatim copy of the license.15:46
mok0tgm4883, yes so he should include both GPL and LGPL licenses15:47
jdongok, RMS lord, forgive me, but I am about to willfully order a Broadcom wifi chipset....15:47
tgm4883mok0, ScottK ok, i'll see what I can do15:47
mok0jdong: does it work with Ubuntu?15:47
jdongmok0: the wl.ko works flawlessly with Linux all the way up to full N speeds15:48
jdongmok0: but it is a pure blob of evil.15:48
mok0jdong: inserting trojans, malware and what not15:48
jdongmok0: from what I understand the driver derives from the same blob used on Broadcom routers that run Linux (like 90% of the market...)15:48
tgm4883mok0, i've also fixed http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mythnettv-gui per your request, so you can give it a +1, but if mythnettv doesn't get in it's a irrelevant, so you may want to wait15:48
jdongwhich probably explains its maturity/stability15:49
ScottKtgm4883: If upstream won't fix it, you can repack the tarball and add the file (documenting what you've done) as long as it's clear in the context of the package what upstream intended.15:49
mok0tgm4883: ok, thanks15:49
* ScottK had to do that on his very first package.15:49
jdongbut the ath9k based card I have right now is just... awful under Linux15:49
tgm4883ScottK, ok thanks15:49
jdongI had it when it took 10 minutes to associate to a node 3 feet away.15:49
ScottKjdong: Intel?15:49
jdongAtheros15:50
ScottKjdong: I'm suggesting why not get Intel?15:50
ScottKWFM.15:50
jdongthe other complicating factor is that this is an Apple notebook and I am still interested in the ability to dualboot its proprietary OS15:50
jdongif it were pure-Linux I would get an iwl496515:51
jdongand Apple's HCL consists of... two wifi cards? :)15:51
ScottKYum.15:51
jdongyea funny how people complain about Linux and hardware15:51
jdongstupidly enough the card works flawlessly under OS X15:52
ScottKApple is a special case.15:52
jdongbut I feel somewhat... bad... for going around running OS X on campus15:52
brooniejdong: Linux claims to work on rather more hardware than OS X does.15:52
ScottKSince they are really the only purveyors of an integrated hardware/software set.15:52
chrismurfoh crap - how does one "un"-archive?15:58
chrismurffound a new button... should NOT have pressed that.15:58
RainCTchrismurf: on REVU? click on Unarchive :P15:59
chrismurfoh hey :-)15:59
* chrismurf will not be tempted by other pretty icons15:59
* mok0 finds a button labelled "Do not press, danger!"16:04
* mok0 thinks it is a pretty button16:04
sorenmok0: What colour is it?16:05
mok0soren: red16:05
sorenThose are the best.16:05
mok0hehe16:05
mok0It is behind a small window of glass16:05
=== Nicke_ is now known as Nicke
Laneymok0: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/wallpapers/1200682311225.jpg16:09
* chrismurf thinks that's what the little hammer is for16:09
mok0hehe16:09
DktrKranzmok0: what about a "click here to have all MOTUs pulled out of the beds to review your package" button?16:09
mok0DktrKranz: ugh me no like16:10
chrismurfhaha - that seems like a horrible idea for all involved16:10
chrismurf"Your package has been EXPLODED."16:10
ScottKI guarantee any package reviewed after that button would not get advocated.16:10
mok0"Your package has been dissolved and the bytes scattered all over the Internet. You are free to use Google or other service at your disposal to attempt a recovery. Good Luck".16:11
Laneysounds like charlie and the chocolate factory16:12
RainCTlol16:13
DktrKranzmok0: just add "if you ever be able to gather them all again, don't remember to push the button again"16:13
DktrKranzs/remember/forget/16:14
mok0Laney: that's your wallpaper? Are you red-green colour blind?16:14
Laneymok0: I have it on a rotation16:15
Laneycolour blind?!16:15
mok0Laney: the color is so vivid it makes me want to start a fire16:15
Laneyhaha16:15
mok0Laney: well, if you're colorblind, it would appear to be a nice greyish color, possibly quite soothing16:16
LaneyI like the red16:17
Laneygets me fired up!16:17
mok0Laney: I'd hate to see your bedroom decor16:20
jpdsdholbach: Meeting logs should be back.16:34
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
jpdsdholbach: ^in case you didn't see the above ;-)16:35
dholbachjpds: THANKS16:36
quadrisprocan a .desktop file use a .SVG as icon?16:40
=== oojah_ is now known as oojah
RainCTquadrispro: depends on the menu application16:40
RainCTquadrispro: I think gnome-panel does, but I'm not really sure about this. (btw, in case you don't know, the name of the Icon in the .desktop file should have NO extension - the menu will figure it out by itself)16:42
quadrisproRainCT: I talk about a .desktop which should be installed in the Applications menu16:43
RainCTquadrispro: .desktop files are universal (a FreeDesktop.org standards). KDE, XFCE, etc. use them too16:43
quadrisprook perfect16:43
quadrisprothank you16:43
RainCTquadrispro: I think that if you have a SVG somewhere in /usr/share/icons gnome-panel will pick it up, but you'd better ask on #ubuntu-desktop16:44
* directhex declares it gohometime16:46
persiaThe .desktop file *shouldn't* specify a filetype for the icon: only an icon name.16:46
quadrisproyes, I know it16:46
persiaThe menu system will select the appropriate icon from the available icons based on that name.16:46
quadrisprook16:46
quadrisprothank you16:47
persiathe default menus for Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Ubuntu Desktop can all handle SVG icons.  I'm less sure about other launchers.16:47
pochuI think I'm going to love this /ignore * PARTS QUITS JOINS :)16:59
pochuthe ":)" is not ignored though :)16:59
pochuotherwise I'd ignore myself :(16:59
vorian/ignore pochu16:59
vorianoops16:59
vorian:P16:59
pochu:)17:00
AndrewGeeHey all. Any MOTUs available to review my package - gpxviewer - It's an application that allows users to look at GPS traces files in GPX format. Thanks :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gpxviewer17:37
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== Chris` is now known as ianto
Laneyember: I thought you were a MOTU :O18:05
iulianLaney: Congratulations!18:09
Laneythanks iulian!18:10
directhexrar, i am back18:12
* Laney blinks at bug #9544418:16
sebnerLaney: congratulations!18:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 95444 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-180 "No Screen Backlight Control; Notebooks (Vaio, Macbook, HP/Compaq, Samsung, Zepto et al.) with Nvidia Geforce8/Geforce9/Quadro series graphics" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9544418:16
Laneyrawr18:16
* Laney pounces sebner18:16
dolanorAny MOTU available to revu/advocate my hexdiff package ? Tool to visually see differences in hexadecimal between files : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hexdiff18:39
dolanorAM I the only one to get errors with ubuntuwire ?18:39
dolanornevermind, I had to restart firefox because of an update18:41
chrismurfIs there a second MOTU who could review pyproj?  It's a python wrapper for PROJ.4 (map projection library).  mok0 advocated, looking for one more.  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pyproj18:46
henrik-hw0MOTUs: your #1 uploader needs a 2nd advocate on libmirage.18:53
Laneyboo @ cowbuilder19:05
Laney(-dist). Doesn't work if /home and /var are on separate partitions19:05
henrik-hw0MOTUs: your #1 uploader needs a 2nd advocate on libmirage.19:22
lfaraoneHow hard would it take to get a debdiff accepted for a package in main?19:30
lfaraone(string fix mostly)19:30
Laneynot very19:30
Laneysubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors instead of u-u-s19:31
lfaraoneLaney: Ah, I expected a multi-level obsticle course upon completion it would be reviewed by the tech board and signed by the sabdfl. :)19:33
lfaraone*which upon19:33
asomethingLaney: thanks for the upload! Glad to see a new u-u-s19:42
Laneyno problem!19:43
Laneythe queue is of quite a scary size19:43
slytherinyes, 140+ is big size for any queue. :-)19:43
* Laney is judiciously unsubscribing u-u-s19:45
asomethingif any one wants an easy one out of the queue, i've got a sync that could use an ACK ;-) Bug #316305 builds in jaunty pbuilder, available in my PPA for testing19:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 316305 in deluge "please sync deluge/1.1.2.dfsg-1 from debian-experimental" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31630519:48
* Laney is processing in order19:49
* slytherin is processing java packages.19:52
asomethingheh, worth a shot19:52
asomethingLaney: anyways, congrats on becoming a MOTU19:53
Laneythanks19:53
Laneyyour turn soon, eh?19:53
slytherinasomething: I never saw ttf-rufscript in repositories. Did you drop plans to package it outside your PPA?19:54
asomethingslytherin: should be in jaunty, I got into debian19:55
* slytherin checks19:55
asomethinghttp://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/ttf-rufscript19:56
slytherinasomething: yes it is. Don't know how I missed it.19:56
slytherin:-)19:56
lfaraoneI added a .patch file to the debian/patches folder, dch -i'd, and debuilt the source. Why is it then that debdiff says there were no changes made to the dscs other than the changelog addition?19:59
slytherinlfaraone: what patch system does the package use?20:02
=== toabctl_ is now known as toabctl
asomethingwhat's the point of the Enhances field in debian/control? does it actually do anything? how does it get used?20:12
Laneyprobably in package managers20:12
* ScottK mentions ##1234567890 on the off chance people want to join.20:13
chrismurfasomething, "This field is similar to Suggests but works in the opposite direction. It is used to declare that a package can enhance the functionality of another package. "20:19
asomethingya, that's what the policy man says, but I guess I'm wondering how it gets used by say synaptic, not very important, just wondering for something I'm working on20:20
dolanorAny MOTU available to revu/advocate my hexdiff package ? Tool to visually see differences in hexadecimal between files : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hexdiff20:26
slytherinhow can I create a watch file that parses latest version of a package from this page - http://java.netbeans.org/servlets/ProjectDocumentList ?20:27
dolanorneed 1 more advocate20:27
slytherinfound out already20:29
sistpotyhi folks20:30
dolanorhi sistpoty20:32
sistpotyhi dolanor20:32
* ScottK waves to sistpoty.20:33
sistpotyhi ScottK20:33
sistpotyScottK: any tought tasks for me this friday night?20:34
* sebner winks sistpoty =)20:36
sistpotyhuhu sebner20:36
iulianHiya sistpoty.20:43
sistpotyyay, water pipe broken in our road, so no water until tomorrow afternoon20:53
jdongwhat are g-p-m battery warning levels determined by?20:53
jdongit is kinda silly on netbooks to do the whole DANGER WILL ROBINSON: YOU HAVE 35 minutes of battery left!!20:54
chrismurfjdong, gconf-editor: /apps/gnome-power-manager/thresholds20:57
maxbwhy silly?20:57
sistpotyhi iulian btw20:57
slytherinIs it necessary to remove hidden files from upstream archives?20:58
* sistpoty could still put big buckets of water aside for the night :)20:58
jdongmaxb: it makes it sound a lot more urgent than it should20:58
jdongmaxb: i.e. for some systems 10% of battery lasts quite a long time20:58
jdongwhile on my large notebook 10% is hurry or openoffice wont close before the system ZAPs20:58
maxbWell.... yeah, but you said an absolute time, not a % :-)20:59
slytherinIs it necessary to remove hidden files from upstream archives?20:59
sistpotyjdong: I assume it's some acpi magic?20:59
chrismurfjdong, sistpoty, it's a user setting in gconf.  /apps/gnome-power-manager/thresholds.21:00
jdongI guess that is a gracious definition of "user setting" but thanks :)21:00
ScottKjdong: KDE if you want user settings ....21:03
* sistpoty coughs at 4.* *g*21:03
sistpotybut maybe I just haven't properly adjusted yet to the new kde world order *g*21:04
jdongScottK: grin :)21:04
ScottKsistpoty: It's getting there pretty well with 4.2.21:05
sistpotyScottK: good to know... I'll check (as in upgrade) every now and then ;)21:05
sistpoty(and btw.: back when 3 was out, I felt 2.? somewhat better, but funnily, I wouldn't want to look back at 2.* nowadays)21:07
sistpotyScottK: I assume it's not possible to sync from debian/new?21:09
ScottKsistpoty: No, since packages in New aren't publically available.21:10
sistpotyah, just what I thought, thanks21:10
ScottKIt's usually possible to fish the packaging out of a VCS somewhere or ask the maintainer for it.21:10
ScottKThen make a -0ubuntu1 version  of it.21:11
* sistpoty asks myself as maintainer and even better myself as upstream as well *g*21:11
ScottK;-)21:11
* sistpoty gives himself OK21:11
ScottKI did this myself for one package.21:11
sistpotyheh21:11
ScottKIt's still in New after over a month.21:11
ScottKSo I'm glad I didn't wait.21:11
sistpotyok, then I guess you're in the queue above me21:11
sistpoty(only 1-2 weeks)21:12
sistpotycrap... I uploaded the *wrong* orig.tar.gz (a local built one instead of the released one)21:14
sistpotyalways these upstream maintainers *g*21:14
ScottKsistpoty: I can reject it. What package?21:14
sistpotyScottK: fauhdlc21:15
sistpotyScottK: thanks a lot... I'll respin with the proper tarball21:15
ScottKsistpoty: Rejected.21:16
sistpotythanks ScottK21:16
ScottKYou're welcome.21:16
=== smarter_ is now known as smarter
* sistpoty looks at http://www3.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/Research/fauhdlc/downloads/MD5SUMS.asc to be safe :)21:28
slytherinScottK: do you have time to process a sync?21:42
ScottKslytherin: I can't do sync's from the lP U/I.21:42
slytherinScottK: What other ways are possible?21:43
ScottKYes, just follow the regular process.21:43
sistpotyScottK: can you new a package? fauhdlc (now with proper orig.tar.gz) would be waiting and is completely uncontroversial in regards to copyright, as I wrote all files (and only a co-worker touched a few files recently)21:45
slytherinScottK: The package is already in the ubuntu-archive queue. But I am waiting for the package to be synced to evaluate fop merge/sync. That is why I asked you.21:49
slytherinasomething: deluge sync acked21:50
asomethingslytherin: thanks!21:50
* Laney spied some more ajax on LP just now21:51
Laney(subscribers list)21:51
ScottKI see.21:52
ScottKI may be abel to get to them in a bit.21:52
=== wgrant_ is now known as wgrant
RainCTLaney: Uhm, did they get ride of the tags?22:06
Laneywha?22:07
RainCTI don't see the tags list anymore22:07
RainCTgreat :D22:07
LaneyI still see them22:07
Laneymight be the greasemonkey scripts though22:07
AndrewGeeHey all. Any MOTUs available to review my package - gpxviewer - It's an application that allows users to look at GPS traces files in GPX format. Thanks :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gpxviewer22:19
Laneyhttp://launchpadlibrarian.net/22559597/gtranslator_1.9.4-1.build2 why would this ftbfs happen, anyone?22:30
Laney(I know that adding liblaunchpad-integration-dev fixes is, but why is that necessary for a synced package?)22:31
Laneys/s is/s it/22:31
sistpotyLaney: I assume seb128 would now the answer22:36
Laneymm22:36
Laneypochu is subscribed to the bug anyway ;)22:36
Laneyhe knows all about gnome22:36
sistpotyLaney: probably on a rdepends of liblaunchpad-integration-dev (or a different binary from launchpad-integration) is wrong in regards to depends22:37
sistpotyhm... somehow dist-upgrade wasn't kvirc friendly *g*22:41
sistpoty(and I timed out)22:41
maxbLaney: I suppose one of the .la files pulled in directly or indirectly via the -l options eventually references launchpad-integration22:42
maxbgrep in the pbuilder environment, maybe?22:42
Laneymaxb: Yeah. Does that indicate a missing depends?22:42
sistpotyLaney: did you get my response?22:42
Laneysistpoty: I did, thanks22:42
sistpotyLaney: that one that a depends was missing from a rdepends of lp-integration? or the former one?22:43
LaneyI need that pbuilder hook that drops you into the environment on a ftbfs22:43
Laneysistpoty: both!22:43
sistpotyok :)22:43
* Laney will grep it up22:43
sistpotydifferent question at everyone: the current list where motu-release delegates power is http://paste.ubuntu.com/117858/... is s.th there outdated/do we need more delegations?22:44
* sistpoty admits to have lost oversight over derivatives22:45
ScottKsistpoty: There's a wiki page somewhere.22:57
* ScottK doesn't recall where22:58
* sistpoty checks google22:58
vorianLaney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/117866/22:59
Laneyvorian: I found a similar one on the wiki, thanks23:00
Laney(will that cd line work with pbuilder-dist?)23:00
* sistpoty gets angry at the wiki for *not* hiding what he looks for23:04
sistpotyerm. for *hiding*23:04
nhandlerDo we have any real policy about what types of packages can be added to the repositories? Somebody uploaded a meta package to REVU that simply installs all of the packages they like to use. I would love to be able to point them to some wiki page that explains what types of packages are appropriate instead of just archiving the upload23:06
sistpotynhandler: I assume meta-packages are reserved for derivatives (now don't ask me what derivatives are... as I'd appreciate a pointer myself on this *g*)23:13
sistpotynhandler: but in general: package w.o. files in a binary package -> reject23:14
nhandlersistpoty: Did you send a message before "nhandler: but in general: packages w.o. files in a binary package -> reject"?23:15
sistpotynhandler: yep...23:15
sistpotynhandler: I assume meta-packages are reserved for derivatives (now don't ask me what derivatives are... as I'd appreciate a pointer myself on this *g*)23:15
ScottKI think there's a general requirement that a package be potentially interesting/useful to a range of people.23:16
nhandlersistpoty: Is there actual policy saying that? Or is it more of an unwritten policy?23:16
ScottKGeorge's favorites isn't in that catagory.23:17
ScottKnhandler: The other option is to just choose to ignore it.23:17
ScottKIn 6 days, it's not a concern for months.23:17
sistpotynhandler: binaries w.o. files -> archive admins choice (and I recall rejects for it). derivatives allowed meta-packages: no written policy AFAIK. So no, there's nothing written... at least to my knowledge23:18
sistpotynhandler: but maybe debian policy nowadays says s.th. about binaries w.o. files23:18
* slytherin plans to upload a package which pulls all java packages. :-P23:19
savvasjava-splatter23:19
sistpotyhaha23:19
savvas:)23:19
slytherinactually it is a long term plan. I am going to create a jubuntu-desktop package. :-D23:20
sistpotyslytherin: I guess you should first find out how to get a derivative accepted (and then tell me where the *.....* list of official derivatives is *g*)23:21
savvasin a long term plan, I see Sun acquiring slytherin :)23:21
maxb"binaries without files" .... even a metapackage needs a changelog, though?23:21
slytherinsavvas: I wish23:22
sistpotymaxb: I mean w.o. files as in "/usr/share/doc/<package>/<common_files> excluded"23:22
savvasmaxb: I think you can link one changelog for all the resulting binaries, I'm not sure though23:23
ScottKWe have metapackages for derivatives that are not built out of the official build system.23:23
sistpotymaxb: otherwise it couldn't even enter the archive (e.g. w.o. changelog.Debian.gz or copyright()23:23
ScottKSo I don't think there is a list of official derivatives.23:23
ScottKIchthux and Ubuntu Muslim Edition are two I know of.23:23
savvasmetapackages derived from dummy packages, right?23:23
sistpotyScottK: that's the term found on ubuntu.com.... not my idea :P23:23
ScottKOK.23:24
* directhex starts work on zoroastrian edition23:24
ScottKWe have Ubuntu, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, and Ubuntu Studio that do their CD images out of the Canonical infrastructure (plus MID, netbook remix, etc).23:25
* sistpoty starts to wonder if motu-release needs greater power to reject wherever MOTU packages want to go where no other MOTU packager went before *g*23:25
ScottKThose are all definitely 'official' for most any definition of official you'd want to pick.23:25
ScottKsistpoty: I think for New packages we can leave that to the archive admins.23:25
sistpotyhehe23:25
ScottKWhere MOTU release, I believe, may need to weigh in is on stuff they'd never see.23:26
sistpotyas in new upstream versions uploaded w.o. ack?23:27
sistpotyScottK: do we care about linking against openssl w.r.t GPL-2+ in ubuntu?23:29
sistpoty(i.e. w.o. exception)23:30
ScottKI think we do.23:30
ScottKI've certainly downchecked packages for it on REVU.23:30
sistpotyScottK: ok, then fqterm is out23:30
=== hanska is now known as Guest16833
=== hanska is now known as Guest83108
sistpotyis Brendt Wohlberg <osspkg@gmail.com> around?23:58

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