[00:30]  * sistpoty goes to bed... gn8 everyone
[00:34] <Laney> "# If the package does not have a packaging system and the patch is small, you can modify the source. It is an Ubuntu goal to keep diffs with Debian small and so if modifying the source makes a smaller diff than adding a patch system you should generally modify the source. " Oh really?
[00:36] <nhandler> Laney: This caused a big discussion on the mailing lists a couple of months ago
[00:36] <Laney> must have missed that one
[00:36] <nhandler> I'll try and find it. One second
[00:37] <nhandler> Laney: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-August/004426.html
[00:38] <Laney> thanks
[00:51] <slicer> Hi. Can someone start a rebuild of mumble-1.1.7-1? It failed on a number of platforms (basically everything but i386, amd64 and lpia) due to dependency errors, but I just got my hands on a powerpc machine and built it successfully in pbuilder.
[01:09] <dolanor> HAPPY 1234567890 everyone !!
[01:12] <DktrKranz> slicer, which ports do you want to give-back?
[01:12] <slicer> DktrKranz: Err.. Under the assumption "give-back" means "have the build daemons try it once more", all of them but i386, amd64 and lpia.
[01:13] <DktrKranz> slicer, give-back is exactly that
[01:14] <slicer> DktrKranz: If they still fail, I don't know what's wrong, as they complain about "libqt4-dev: Depends: xlibmesa-gl-dev but it is not going to be installed or libgl-dev", but the same build worked just now in a pbuilder on powerpc (which was the first arch that failed).
[01:14] <DktrKranz> given-back on failed ports, let's see what happens now
[01:14] <slicer> DktrKranz: Thanks :)
[01:14] <DktrKranz> you're welcome
[01:16] <DktrKranz> james_w, do you plan to process some NEW during your a-a duties? There are gnome-desktop-sharp2 binary NEW which I'd like to see in the archives soon.
[01:17] <vorian> nellery: root-system is at 5.18.00-2.3 on debian if you want to look at your merge again
[01:19] <Laney> vorian: What do you think to bug #306592? Do we want to make this change?
[01:19] <Laney> (iirc you are a kubuntu kinda guy)
[01:19]  * vorian looks
[01:19] <nellery> vorian: Must've just been uploaded, I'll update it
[01:19] <nellery> thanks
[01:23] <vorian> Laney: yes, BUT
[01:24] <vorian> it's now known as plasma-widget-weather
[01:24] <ScottK> slicer and DktrKranz: That's not going to work on ia64, sparc, or hppa.  Should be OK on powerpc though.
[01:24] <vorian> nellery: no problem, I HATE it when that happens :)
[01:24] <nhandler> vorian: Should we invalidate the plasmoid-* bug reports and file them against plasma-widget-* ?
[01:24] <ScottK> nhandler: Just change the package.
[01:25] <vorian> nhandler: well, we could just rename it
[01:25] <vorian> there is a valid SRU update that can be used in the same bug report
[01:25] <slicer> ScottK: Ok? Why won't it work on ia64, sparc and hppa?
[01:25] <nhandler> scottk: That is what I meant.
[01:26] <Laney> it's not a valid SRU debdiff
[01:26] <ScottK> Because the qt4-x11 version is older than the -dev package (which is built on 1386)
[01:26] <Laney> He's done it as a backport
[01:26] <ScottK> Until yesterday mesa was broken on all those archs.
[01:26] <ScottK> I'm working on getting them rebuilt, but it needs doing in a certain order.
[01:27] <vorian> ScottK: which ones have the base-stack done?
[01:27] <ScottK> armel and lpia are fully up to date.
[01:27]  * vorian checks recent uploads
[01:27] <slicer> ScottK: Aha :) That explains why my pbuilder worked, that was updated less than an hour ago. And I guess you fixed powerpc already?
[01:27] <ScottK> Yes
[01:27] <ScottK> power pc has all the central node packages built for KDE.
[01:28] <ScottK> Many of the leaf packages are still un queue to get rebult.
[01:28] <vorian> ScottK: can you press this button then https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soprano/2.2.1+dfsg-0ubuntu1/+build/866511
[01:28] <ScottK> qt4-x11 on sparc is caught in some kind of soyuz induced groundhog day situation on artigas (just builds it over and over).
[01:28] <vorian> :)
[01:29] <ScottK> Looking
[01:29] <ScottK> mesa is built now on ia64 and I think qt4-x11.
[01:29] <ScottK> It's a mess.
[01:30] <ScottK> vorian: Did librdf and mysql get built and did they finish before the last publisher run?
[01:33] <slicer> ScottK: Would it be possible to have the builders postpone building a package if something it Build-Depends: on is already in the build queue (or otherwise "out of date")?
[01:33] <vorian> ScottK: both are fully built on all archs
[01:34] <ScottK> vorian: Mashed the button.
[01:34] <vorian> excellent
[01:34] <ScottK> slicer: If a build-dep is missing, it will go into a dep wait status.
[01:35] <ScottK> slicer: but if the build-dep is uninstallable (as is the case here - the -dev package is the build-dep and its version mismatches with the arch specific main package) it fails the build.
[01:35] <ScottK> So I think this is a bug.
[01:36] <ScottK> Others consider it a feature, I'm not quite sure why.
[01:36] <slicer> ScottK: Ah, ok. Because when a build fails on an arch I don't have access too, I feel I'm on really thin ice when it comes to figuring out why it failed.
[01:37] <ScottK> For uninstallable build-dep like this one you can look and see when it's caught up and then ask to have it tried again.
[01:37] <ScottK> If it fails in the middle of compiling, that's different.
[01:37] <Laney> asomething: Lintian error on your quick-lounge-applet update: quick-lounge-applet source: build-depends-on-x-metapackage build-depends: xorg-dev
[01:37] <ScottK> slicer: If you look in the kubuntu-devel ML archive, you'll see a couple of recent mails from me on this.
[01:38] <maxb> qt4-x11 on artigas looks like it's succeeded this time :-)
[01:38] <slicer> ScottK: Ok. Thanks for clearing this up :)
[01:40] <ScottK> maxb: Cycled back to needs building.
[01:40] <ScottK> Wait, nevermind
[01:41] <ScottK> maxb: Sure enough.  Third time's the charm I guess.
[01:42] <ScottK> vorian and slicer: Now the trick for sparc then is that the publisher runs at 3 minutes after the hour.  Sometime shortly after that, the package should be available to build against.
[01:43] <vorian> fantastico
[01:43] <vorian> :)
[01:46] <vorian> Laney: i went ahead and adjusted the package name/version to get it into jaunty
[01:46] <Laney> vorian: That's cool, nice one
[01:47] <ScottK> slicer and vorian: Also remember that if you do a retry and it fails, the person that uploaded it gets mail in their inbox.  Don't blindly retry stuff you didn't upload.
[01:47] <lidaobing> is sistpoty here? can you help recheck http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fqterm, thanks
[01:47] <vorian> ScottK: i uploaded soprano
[01:48] <vorian> plus we'll need it for other goodness to build
[01:48] <ScottK> vorian: You packaged it.  Your sponsor uploaded it.  They'll get mail too.
[01:48] <vorian> ah, yes
[01:48] <ScottK> But that was just a general comment and we aren't blindly retrying it.  You checked that the needed things were built.
[01:51] <lidaobing> Hello, who can help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fqterm ? thanks.
[01:51] <vorian> lidaobing: what's it do?
[01:51] <lidaobing> vorian, a BBS client
[01:52] <lidaobing> vorian, BBS is still widely used in Mainland China, Taiwan and other places.
[01:52] <lidaobing> vorian, for example, ptt.cc has more than 100k people online (at the same time).
[01:53] <vorian> yowzer
[01:54] <ScottK> power pc is down to just over 200 binaries out of date.  It was almost 500 two days ago.
[01:54] <lidaobing> vorian, and ptt.cc does not belongs to any company, it is maintained by several students.
[01:57] <maxb> ScottK: where do those numbers come from, ooi? (people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/ says 355 main 1 restricted 364 universe 26 multiverse)
[01:57] <vorian> lidaobing: i see no "credits" file
[01:57] <ScottK> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/jaunty_outdate.html at the bottom.
[01:58] <ScottK> maxb: ^^^
[01:58] <vorian> lidaobing: nevermind
[01:58] <lidaobing> vorian, in res/credits, and it will be installed to the same directory with copyright after install :-)
[01:59] <vorian> lidaobing: don't you think it would be better to just add the authours to the debian/copyright?
[01:59] <vorian> authors, even
[01:59] <maxb> oh,right. The script generating the _all.txt variant must not be cronned as often
[02:01] <lidaobing> vorian, I don't think credits is not copyright holder
[02:01] <lidaobing> vorian, it's like "THANKS" file
[02:01] <lidaobing> vorian, I don't think credits IS copyright holder
[02:02] <lidaobing> vorian, some of them update the po file (many package does not add translator to copyright file)
[02:02] <vorian> i didn't say contributors
[02:02] <vorian> the credits file lists the authors
[02:03] <lidaobing> vorian, no the fqterm said fqterm is copyright by fqterm development group, not individual authors
[02:03] <lidaobing> vorian, just like gcc is copyrighted by FSF, not authors
[02:04] <ScottK> lidaobing: I think I remember someone mentioning earlier that fqterm links against openssl and is GPL.
[02:04] <ScottK> Is that correct?
[02:04] <lidaobing> ScottK, yes, then they change the license
[02:04] <lidaobing> ScottK, wait a minute, I can find out the bug number
[02:04] <ScottK> What's the license now?'
[02:05] <ScottK> vorian: You know what the problem with that is, right?
[02:05] <vorian> the license included in the source is plain old GPL2
[02:05] <lidaobing> ScottK, http://code.google.com/p/fqterm/issues/detail?id=165, it's in Chinese, by maybe google translation can help you.
[02:05] <ScottK> That's a fail then.
[02:05] <vorian> ScottK: opensll? nope - but I have a feeling i'll soon be smarter
[02:06] <ScottK> vorian: Does the package license have the openssl exception like shown in that bug?
[02:07] <lidaobing> ScottK, yes, in the end of LICENSE file
[02:07] <asomething> Laney: ya, I saw that, but if you look at the changelog xorg-dev was specifically added in 2.12.4-0ubuntu2 by DktrKranz to fix a FTBFS. Should I add an over-ride?
[02:07] <ScottK> OK.  If it has the openssl exception, then it's OK.
[02:07] <vorian> it does indeed
[02:07] <ScottK> vorian: Generally any code you link against has to be compatibly licensed.
[02:07] <ScottK> OK.  Then that's OK now.
[02:08] <vorian> the package is otherwise perfect
[02:08] <ScottK> GPL code linking against openssl is a common mistake, but we can't allow it in the archive without the exception.
[02:08] <lidaobing> ScottK, yes, it depends on libqt4, which has a openssl exception too
[02:08] <ScottK> Sounds fine then.
[02:08] <lidaobing> ScottK, total depends of fqterm:  libc6 (>= 2.4), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libqt4-network (>= 4.4.3), libqt4-script (>= 4.4.3), libqtcore4 (>= 4.4.3), libqtgui4 (>= 4.4.3), libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8f-5), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1)
[02:09] <ScottK> lidaobing: Has it been tested with qt 4.5?
[02:09] <lidaobing> ScottK, only qt 4.4 has been tested
[02:09] <ScottK> We will probably go to 4.5 for Jaunty although it's not decided for sure.
[02:09] <ScottK> OK.  I'd suggest testing with 4.5 sooner rather than later.
[02:10] <lidaobing> ScottK, where can I find a qt 4.5 ubuntu repos? I don't want to build from source
[02:10] <ScottK> That won't block archive inclusion, but if you've got 4.5 compatibility problems....
[02:10] <lidaobing> ScottK, like ppa
[02:10] <ScottK> ~roderick-greening
[02:10] <lidaobing> thanks
[02:10] <ScottK> His ppa.
[02:12] <Laney> asomething: Have a look at `aptitude show xorg-dev'. I doubt that was the right thing to build-depend on. It'd be good if you could find the correct subset of those -dev packages that are needed to get it to build
[02:13] <Laney> asomething: Especially read the note in the package description
[02:13] <Laney> this is a good time to fix the mistake
[02:13] <asomething> Laney: will do
[02:13] <Laney> thanks
[02:14] <lidaobing> vorian, thanks
[02:15] <vorian> lidaobing: no, thank you for your contribution
[02:15] <lidaobing> vorian, :-)
[02:27] <asomething> Laney: I just tried building quick-lounge-applet without the xorg-dev build-dep, and it built fine in a jaunty pbuilder without it. New diff.gz attached to bug Bug #309529
[02:27] <Laney> asomething: Does it work?
[02:28] <asomething> I'm on a intrepid box right now, so I can't actually test it. Some time latter tonight I can get on Jaunty
[02:28] <Laney> OK well I am going to bed soon
[02:29] <Laney> I can have another look tomorrow
[02:29] <asomething> cool
[09:51] <quadrispro> jdong: hi, could you add me to ubuntu-backporters?
[10:12] <pochu> how can I report a bug in GMail? :)
[10:15] <RAOF> pochu: In gmail, or from gmail?  One's (near) impossible, the other's merely annoying.
[10:38] <pochu> (in)
[10:39] <RainCT> Hey pochu
[10:47] <directhex> hm, looks like boycott novell is planning a shocking expose on corrupt ubuntu developers closing bugs about removing mono without acting upon them
[10:48] <RainCT> o.O
[10:58] <mok0> directhex: url?
[10:58] <directhex> mok0, reading yesterday's irc logs
[11:00] <directhex> mok0, http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/14/irc-log-13022009-1/#tFeb%2013%2016:52:31
[11:00] <mok0> directhex: thanks!
[11:01] <directhex> mok0, before doing anything, be sure to consider occam's razor and hanlon's razor, in that order
[11:01] <mok0> directhex: oh, I just want to read it
[11:02] <directhex> mok0, be careful the stupid doesn't avalance & crush you
[11:02] <mok0> directhex: I guess you remember I'm no mono fan ;-)
[11:04] <directhex> mok0, which is your prerogative. but don't fall into the trap of believing that site has any credibility, the way you couldn't ally yourself with jack "disbarred for life for gross misconduct" thompson if you felt videogames are a bit too violent
[11:04] <tuxmaniac> directhex: :)
[11:04] <mok0> heh
[11:04] <mok0> I've never seen the site before
[11:05] <directhex> lucky you. it's where most anti-mono stuff tends to link back to. a world where "reality" is a microsoft shill
[11:07] <mok0> directhex: my anti-mono stance comes from my own thinking, so I wasn't indoctrinated by anyone
[11:08] <directhex> mok0, which is why i don't point at you and call you an idiot. i have the utmost respect for anti-mono sentiment from intelligent human beings, but there are none to be found on that site
[11:09] <mok0> directhex: heh, well they are a bit conspiratorial in their discussion, aren't they?
[11:10] <mok0> A decision has been made to include mono in Debian and Ubuntu, that's basically it, so closing those bugs is natural.
[11:11] <mok0> I just think it makes us vulnerable to actions MS might take, that's why I think the inclusion is a bad idea
[11:12] <directhex> perhaps. but i'd say our "supports more than vorbis and theora" ffmpeg is a much bigger danger
[11:13] <directhex> and even then, the "no patents at all on theora & vorbis" thing is naive - patent trolls & broken patent systems are designed to attack "safe" things
[11:14] <mok0> Didn't canonical purchase a license to distribute those technologies?
[11:15] <directhex> no. have you seen the price?
[11:15] <mok0> no
[11:16] <directhex> mok0, just mp3 playback costs $0.75 per app. $2.50-$5 for encoding.
[11:16] <directhex> mpeg2 or others are FAR more
[11:17] <mok0> yuck
[11:17] <directhex> fluendo will sell you licensed codecs, and the gstreamer "install codecs" window has a button to do so
[11:19] <directhex> €16 for wma and wmv, €16 for mpeg2 and mpeg4, €28 for both the above plus h264, aac. they bundle mp3 decoding for free.
[11:19] <mok0> h264 is free I think
[11:19] <directhex> mpeg-la would disagree
[11:20] <mok0> Isn't h264 Apple's technology? I thought they decided to let everyone use it for free
[11:21] <directhex> free for <100k users
[11:22] <directhex> $20 per unit for 100-200k users
[11:22] <directhex> $0.20, even
[11:22] <directhex> $0.10 for >200k
[11:22] <mok0> wicked
[11:22] <mok0> Stupid way to make money
[11:23] <directhex> don't look at me, i just report the facts
[11:23]  * mok0 hugs directhex 
[11:23] <directhex> now, here's the funny thing. you know the €16 licensed wma/wmv codecs from fluendo?
[11:23] <mok0> err well no but you just told me about them
[11:24] <directhex> there's a company who will give you licensed wma/wmv/mp3 codecs free of charge
[11:24] <mok0> what's the catch?
[11:25] <directhex> they're licensed only for use in a web browser, i.e. not for desktop apps
[11:26] <mok0> so you can just make your mp3 app contain a webbrowser
[11:26] <mok0> distribute your mp3's from a webserver on localhost
[11:27] <directhex> that could work. or you could use fluendo's free licensed mp3 decoder (gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 package). or ignore the patent & just use your favourite app
[11:27] <directhex> free as in price, mind
[11:27] <mok0> Right
[11:27] <directhex> short version: media sucks ^_^
[11:27] <mok0> I agree
[11:28] <mok0> TBH, I am a sucker, I purchase or rent DVDs and watch them on my dvdplayer
[11:29] <directhex> but if you want to do it "legit", then mpeg-la need to get paid. which means either fluendo (free for mp3, paid for others), or the mysterious benefactors covering mp3 & ms codecs in a web browser context
[11:29] <mok0> I also purchase CDs, rip them for mp3s
[11:29] <directhex> i'm sure you've guessed who the latter are by now
[11:29] <mok0> Google?
[11:30] <directhex> http://ossguy.com/moonlight/microsoft_media_pack_eula.xhtml
[11:30] <mok0> Ha!
[11:31] <pochu> hi RainCT :)
[11:31] <mok0> Novell again huh
[11:31] <directhex> mok0, MS are the ones paying the fees, but essentially
[11:32] <directhex> silverlight-media-pack-linux-x64-5-1.so
[11:32] <directhex> now, i don't actually USE it. i just build against ffmpeg and damn the patenta
[11:32] <directhex> but it's a funny old world
[11:33] <Tonio_> mok0: thanks for the kcometen4 revu, uploading including the lintian override.
[11:33] <mok0> directhex: it is
[11:33] <mok0> Tonio_: great!
[11:33]  * Tonio_ doesn't like to override btw ;)
[11:33] <directhex> mok0, my aim is not to tell you steve ballmer is a big fluffy teddy bear. it's to tell you it's a funny old world :)
[11:33] <Tonio_> but that's a 3 years ago long debate, so.... time to change the inhabits :)
[11:34] <mok0> Tonio_: It makes sense to use it when Lintian reports something you can't fix
[11:34] <mok0> or wont, for a reason
[11:34] <Tonio_> mok0: ho sure, nevermind, just that a couple of years ago, people most of the time suggested not to override, and I had to change that once, hehe :)
[11:36] <directhex> mok0, but (big but) i think it's a reasonable sign that attacks against mono aren't currently considered a worthwhile avenue of revenue generation by some in power in MS - considering they're actively paying for people to have codecs in moonlight
[11:36] <mok0> Tonio_: There are automated Lintian reports made on all packages, and for the sake of the sanity of those, it's good to exclude bogus lintian errors that the packager "knows about"
[11:36] <mok0> Tonio_: ... but I always run lintian with -o :-)
[11:36] <Tonio_> mok0: :)
[11:37] <Tonio_> mok0: it's also true that the number of tests lintian performs right now is at least the double....
[11:37] <mok0> Tonio_: so, when an automated lintian report will be made on your package, you don't need to be embarassed for not including a watch file :-)
[11:37] <james_w> DktrKranz: I can do binary NEW for sure.
[11:38] <Tonio_> mok0: point ! :)
[11:38] <mok0> Tonio_: that said, we need to come up with a watch file concept that works for VCSs
[11:38] <Tonio_> mok0: concerning skrooge, upstream is gonna fix, last udate still had the /usr/lib no soname issue, btw
[11:39] <mok0> Tonio_: I'm not settled on the question if it's a blocker
[11:40] <Tonio_> it'll be fixed before FF, so it's fair...
[11:40] <DktrKranz> james_w, cool! If you could manage gnome-desktop-sharp2, that would be great :)
[11:40] <mok0> Tonio_: Sure, otherwise, plz get a second opinion from someone in the kubuntu team
[11:41] <mok0> Tonio_: it'd be cool to get it in jaunty
[11:41] <directhex> yes, g-d-s2 please
[11:41] <directhex> part of the messy "our ABI sucks. let's break it!" from upstream
[11:42] <directhex> worse, "our API sucks too"
[11:43] <Tonio_> mok0: hum, I know the kubuntu guys, they won't accept it with the soname issue :)
[11:44] <mok0> Tonio_: ok
[11:44] <mok0> Tonio_: that was my inclination too
[11:44] <Tonio_> mok0: well, eventually if that was a critical app, like k3b for example... but since that one is really optional...
[11:45] <mok0> Tonio_: Right
[11:45] <Tonio_> k3b would have given: ping upstream and upload, since we really have to replace our old kde3 version
[11:45] <mok0> Tonio_: Although the kubuntu team is really working hard to make jaunty shine
[11:46]  * Tonio_ notices he still has to split out the k3blibs package for multiverse deps...
[11:46] <Tonio_> mok0: I am too, hehe
[11:46] <mok0> Tonio_: thumbs up to you!
[11:46] <Tonio_> mok0: and we'll make it, believe me !
[11:47] <mok0> 1Tonio_: as a kubuntu user I salute you
[11:47] <Tonio_> mok0: and if you're still interested in revuing my packages : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/frescobaldi
[11:47] <Tonio_> mok0: the manpage was written especially for you, hehe
[11:47] <mok0> Tonio_: heh
[11:47] <Tonio_> mok0: /me hugs mok0 for being a kubuntu user
[11:47] <Tonio_> oups... I still lhave to get used to quassel, it seems
[11:48]  * directhex installs libqyoto4.3-cil on mok0 
[11:48] <mok0> Tonio_: ah, nice!
[11:48] <sebner> directhex: waah, gtk# ftw! :P
[11:48] <mok0> directhex: ouch! that hurt :-P
[11:48] <Tonio_> mok0: pain to write the deps, since that's python and using cmake, not pycentral...
[11:48] <mok0> Tonio_: uh-uh
[11:48] <Tonio_> mok0: but I think it should be okay..
[11:49] <mok0> Tonio_: I'll  take a look sometime today
[11:49] <directhex> sebner, it would be nice to see some decent mono apps gain "native" qt frontends. meebey designed his irc client to be able to do so, for example
[11:49] <sebner> directhex: I know but sebner just can't tolerate kde/qt :P
[11:50] <directhex> sebner, well, don't blame you on that ;)
[11:50] <sebner> hehe
[11:50] <DktrKranz> hoi sebner !
[11:50] <sebner> DktrKranz: !
[11:51] <mok0> Tonio_: aren't you s'posed to use lists and stuff for lists when you use the docbook dtd?
[11:51] <Tonio_> mok0: you mean ?
[11:52] <Tonio_> mok0: well I usually write docbook files by hand (vim rules...) and honnestly I'm not an expert in the docbook format
[11:52] <Tonio_> mok0: if you have suggestions to make that a better way, please say !
[11:53] <Tonio_> mok0: as you have understand, man page for desktop apps isn't for me a priority, but I'll make an effort ! ;)
[11:53] <mok0> Tonio_: well you have some lists in the page with "*" and "-" bullets, that will look awful if someone typesets the manpage for the printer
[11:53] <Tonio_> hum, true, that
[11:53]  * Tonio_ reads manpages with konqueror, so didn't figure out :)
[11:53] <mok0> Tonio_: just being picky :-)
[11:54] <Tonio_> mok0: know about a good docbook editor (gui prefered), on that point ?
[11:54] <mok0> Tonio_: no I don't. I think docbook is a blemish on the face of the planet, myself
[11:55]  * Tonio_ searches for a good editor
Why<interrobang /> <statement>you might say it's impossible to read</statement></reply>
[11:57]  * RainCT finds the source of hand-written roff manpages easier to read than docbook ones
[11:57] <mok0> .SH me too
[11:58] <mok0> :)
[11:58] <geser> james_w, ScottK: just read your mail on the MOTU ml, what do you propose for the pending sync requests so we don't pull in possibly unwanted changes from Debian unstable because of bad timing?
[12:03] <RainCT> uhm.. svn.debian.org is timing out here :S
[12:03]  * mok0 thought the point of the FF was to limit the number of uploads after that date, not before...
[12:03] <RainCT> is it down or does it just hate me? :P
[12:05] <mok0> RainCT: it's _not_ down...
[12:05] <DktrKranz> mok0, I'm inclined to think about FF some days before of it, just to make sure I'm not rushing too much
[12:05] <geser> mok0: but we don't want to start possible transitions now because the flood gates open in Debian again and we sync it from unstable
[12:05] <mok0> geser: true
[12:06] <mok0> In fact, there are loads of silly sync requests sitting in the uuc queue
[12:06] <mok0> already
[12:06] <Laney> don't be afraid to reject them!
[12:07] <mok0> Laney: well it takes time to reject them... I just ignore them...
[12:08] <Laney> but then someone else has to spend time looking at it
[12:08] <mok0> Laney: we can just mass-reject them after FF
[12:08] <mok0> Laney: but otherwise... point taken
[12:09] <DktrKranz> if there are silly ones, just remove u-u-s with a rationale behind it
[12:09] <directhex> accept them if they're from me :<
[12:10] <Laney> we should try to get to any good ones before FF
[12:10] <mok0> DktrKranz: yes, that's an option.
[12:10] <Laney> actually, I don't see a reason to do mass rejections
[12:11] <Laney> either we should upload now if they're good (+ new features), reject now if they're bad
[12:11] <Laney> and bugfix uploads are still OK
[12:11] <DktrKranz> Laney, I proposed a possible workaround: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-February/005432.html
[12:11] <Laney> yep, that's good
[12:12] <Laney> mass rejecting bugs just because we didn't get round to sponsoring is *not* good
[12:12] <geser> I usually ask the reporter why it should be synced now if it's not obvious from changelog or bug description
[12:13] <Laney> sounds fair
[12:13] <mok0> The problem is that sync-requests are not automatically closed when auto-sync resumes
[12:13] <Laney> but there shouldn't be any outstanding sync requests at that time
[12:13] <Laney> they should have either been done or closed
[12:14] <Tonio_> mok0: fixing the manpage using docbook templates...
[12:14] <DktrKranz> ugh, queue is 74 packages long! :(
[12:14] <Laney> it was much worse than that ;)
[12:15] <DktrKranz> really?
[12:15] <geser> Laney: it's still possible to sync after FF, but either is has to be the same upstream version or a exception was granted
[12:15] <Laney> I know
[12:15] <mok0> Tonio_: amazing
[12:15] <geser> it was over 130 a few days ago
[12:15] <Laney> so if it's not valid then we reject => off the sponsors radar
[12:15] <DktrKranz> OMG!
[12:15] <Laney> or accept => off the sponsors radar
[12:16] <DktrKranz> if no-one objects, I'll have a run at queue and tag bugs with a "ff-aware" tag
[12:17] <iulian> DktrKranz: Please go ahead.
[12:18]  * DktrKranz will be back in a couple of hours
[12:18] <iulian> I will have a look at the queue later on as well.
[12:18] <DktrKranz> iulian, 9.04-pre-ff sounds good?
[12:19] <iulian> DktrKranz: Yes.
[12:22] <Tonio_> mok0: should fit what you expect now, uploaded on revu and available in a couple of minutes.
[12:22] <mok0> Tonio_: thanks!
[12:23]  * Tonio_ will become what he never wanted to be: a manpage expert... ^^
[12:24] <Laney> wtf is the MOTU reviewers team?
[12:25] <mok0> directhex: are you dealing with the moonlight sync?
[12:25] <directhex> mok0, define "dealing with". i'm not a motu, but it's my request
[12:26] <mok0> directhex: It's finished?
[12:26] <mok0> ah
[12:26] <Laney> it should be good to upload
[12:26] <directhex> mok0, #329376
[12:26] <Laney> check out the epic copyright file
[12:26] <directhex> meebey wrote the epic copyright file
[12:27] <directhex> and counts as an advocate, since he submitted to debian NEW
[12:30] <directhex> and it's only epic due to embedded copies of pixman & cairo
[12:41] <james_w> DktrKranz, directhex: why is libgnomeprint2.18-cil_2.24.0-1ubuntu1_all.deb?
[12:42] <james_w> I mean, why "_all"?
[12:42] <directhex> james_w, should it not be? generally speaking, pure mono packages (i.e. ones containing only c#) are fully cross-platform
[12:43] <james_w> directhex: just querying as the other new binary is any
[12:43] <james_w> gnome-panel
[12:44] <directhex> james_w, mono packages are only non-all if they contain some C (e.g. C helper libs) or if they contain poorly-handled wrappers around variable-size system types. if you want to check, look at the package contents - if there's a .so, any is right, if there's only dll, then all is right
[12:44] <directhex> make sense?
[12:45] <james_w> thanks, accepted
[13:08] <Laney> james_w: what do you think about the snes9express removal? I want to recommend getting it done in Debian (along with getting the new emulator packaged there too)
[13:09] <james_w> Laney: I'm not sure, as I haven't really looked at it. If you think it's a good idea then go ahead
[13:09] <Laney> right
[13:09] <Laney> same for the NES ones too
[13:44] <ScottK> geser: I think as long as people are aware and have due consideration it is suffiicent.
[13:47] <danielm> Hi, good evening.
[13:47] <danielm> If i need a MOTU to review a package-update, i need to subscribe 'universe sponsors' and just wait.. right?
[13:48] <jpds> danielm: Yes.
[13:48] <danielm> ok, thanks
[14:01] <quadrispro> mok0: ping
[14:10] <dolanor> not a ubuntu-motu question, but how can I get a cloak ?
[14:10] <dolanor> on freenode
[14:11] <Laney> check the freenode website
[14:12] <jpds> dolanor: Make sure you've setup your nick as per http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup and ask in #freenode for a cloak.
[14:12] <_16aR_> ok jpds, thanks :)
[14:16] <ScottK2> mok0: pyproj uploaded, so I've started.
[14:19] <DktrKranz> james_w, thanks!
[14:19] <mok0> ScottK: thanks a bunch
[14:19] <mok0> quadrispro: pong
[14:19] <ScottK> mok0: Thank you that package was definitely it good shape.
[14:20] <mok0> ScottK: yeah we worked hard on that one
[14:21]  * ScottK is currently waiting to see if threats to killfile someone are effective on -devel-discuss.
[14:22] <loic-m> -devel-discuss has been a spamlist lately
[14:22] <ScottK> The discussion has not been very helpful.
[14:23] <loic-m> with both the C-A-B and another one i can't remember now
[14:23] <loic-m> I had to spend my time deleting emails (like 20 times a day)
[14:24] <loic-m> And there was indeed no point, plus there was the same discussion month ago, and that should have been over with
[14:24] <mok0> Hey cool I won a cash prize of €600.000 and a brand new Toyota Prius
[14:24] <ScottK> Yep.
[14:25] <ScottK> I think the decision not to include a GUI preference for re-enabling c-a-b is a bit bizarre, but then I use KDE, not Gnome.
[14:25] <loic-m> -thunderbird needs the ability to blacklist a whole thread
[14:26] <loic-m> ScottK: AFAIK there's xorg-options-configurator
[14:26] <ScottK> loic-m: It didn't make it.
[14:26] <ScottK> And the alternative to provide an option in another context was rejected.
[14:26] <loic-m> I just got an update from the blueprint today. Only the new interface didn't make it AFAIU
[14:26] <ScottK> I see.
[14:27] <ScottK> Withouth the new interface how do you change c-a-b?
[14:27] <loic-m> "2009-02-13 bryce: Uploaded to universe for Jaunty."
[14:27] <loic-m> ScottK: AFAIU it's the interface makeover that's on hold for J+1, the app should still come with one
[14:28] <ScottK> OK.  We'll see.
[14:29] <loic-m> tseliot, can you correct me if I'm wrong?
[14:29] <loic-m> xorg-option-editor should be the name, we just have to wait till it gets in the repos
[14:30] <loic-m> Oh yeah, the other oh so useful discussion was going from 2.6.28 to 2.6.29 just like 5 days before FF ;)
[14:30] <tseliot> loic-m: yes, it was uploaded yesterday but the current UI is not final
[14:31] <tseliot> s/final/very good as regards usability/
[14:31] <loic-m> tseliot thanks a lot. Is the name "xorg-options-editor"? I tried the one on your ppa, but the jaunty repos doesn't show it yet
[14:32] <tseliot> loic-m: the one you tried wasn't the final release. Let me see if I can find it
[14:32] <loic-m> As for usability, the Don't zap option was easy to set up last time I tried, and didn't blow up my xorg.conf
[14:35] <tseliot> loic-m: I can't find it right now. You can simply type "dontzap --disable" to do it from the command line
[14:36] <ScottK> tseliot: So there's still not gui for it in Gnome?
[14:36] <tseliot> ScottK: bryce wrote that it uploaded that package to universe
[14:37] <tseliot> (yesterday)
[14:37] <ScottK> So there's a package in Universe you can install if you want a GUI way to reenable c-a-b in Gnome.  Is that right?
[14:37] <quadrispro> ScottK: hi! how can I advocate packages in REVU?
[14:38] <ScottK> quadrispro: You just got MOTU, right?
[14:38] <quadrispro> it seems I'm logged in as contributor
[14:38] <quadrispro> ScottK: yes :)
[14:38] <tseliot> ScottK: yes, it's not as immediate as the one for Kubuntu as it's more general purpose
[14:38] <_16ar_> quadrispro: Hello
[14:38] <ScottK> You need a revu admin to change you.
[14:38] <iulian> quadrispro: Talk to RainCT_.
[14:38] <quadrispro> ah thanks!
[14:38] <quadrispro> _16ar_: hi
[14:39] <_16ar_> quadrispro: I have a question about debhelper version and debian/compat
[14:39] <ScottK> tseliot: I see.  Is there a K/Q U/I for the configurator too?
[14:39] <quadrispro> iulian: anyway, I would upload a package which looks good
[14:39] <tseliot> ScottK: no, not yet
[14:39] <_16ar_> debhelper version may be incompatible with the compat version, no ?
[14:39] <loic-m> tseliot: thanks for looking
[14:39] <tseliot> np
[14:39] <quadrispro> _16ar_: can you send me an email? I'm going away in 3-4 minutes :)
[14:40] <quadrispro> iulian: can I write a comment ("advocating") then upload it?
[14:40] <iulian> quadrispro: Sure.
[14:40] <iulian> quadrispro: Does it have two advocates?
[14:40] <quadrispro> iulian: thanks, anyway I'll leave a message to RainCT_
[14:41] <ScottK> tseliot: Are you still planning it?
[14:41] <quadrispro> iulian: I'm giving the second vote
[14:41] <iulian> quadrispro: Ah-ha, go ahead then.
[14:41] <iulian> And congratulations. ;)
[14:41] <ScottK> quadrispro: I think it's quite reasonable for you to comment 'advocating' and upload.
[14:42] <quadrispro> ScottK: just done, uploading now (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5115)
[14:43] <tseliot> ScottK: maybe. I worked on that patch for Kubuntu because I wasn't sure as to whether the KDE ui for xorg-options-editor could be ready in time for Jaunty
[14:43] <ScottK> quadrispro: For your comment on cairo-dock-plugins, I would just change it an upload if that's the only issue you found.
[14:44] <ScottK> tseliot: Personally I think if it only misses FF a bit an FFe for such a thing would be reasonable.
[14:44] <RainCT_> quadrispro, iulian: yes?
[14:45] <tseliot> ScottK: the problem is that I lack the time to do it. But I should have more after Jaunty's release
[14:45] <ScottK> tseliot: I see.  OK.
[14:45] <ScottK> tseliot: Thanks for the KDE patch.
[14:46] <quadrispro> ScottK: eh.. I'm not sure if it was the only issues, I should find the time to check better
[14:46] <tseliot> ScottK: you're welcome ;)
[14:46] <ScottK> quadrispro: Would you?
[14:46] <ScottK> quadrispro: You've already partly reviewed it, so I'd rather spend my time on another package.
[14:47] <RainCT> quadrispro: ok, you're reviewer now
[14:48] <quadrispro> eh ScottK, at the moment I have to go away :)
[14:48] <quadrispro> RainCT: thank you ;)
[14:48] <quadrispro> see you soon
[14:48] <quadrispro> bye!
[14:51] <RainCT> I've also changed Laney and didrocks to Reviewer. If you have commented possitively on some package don't forget to add an advocation to the comment so that it does't pull it into "needs work"
[14:51] <Laney> thanks
[14:52] <Laney> RainCT: Could this be made automated by checking for ubuntu-dev membership on LP?
[14:53] <ScottK> Laney: Are you doing some package review?
[14:53] <Laney> no
[14:53] <Laney> I'm on u-u-s
[14:53] <ScottK> OK
[14:54] <ScottK> Laney: At this point, it's probably best to leave anything that's bugfix until after FF and focus on stuff that would need an FFe if it's not done before.
[14:54] <RainCT> damn screen.. why does it die if I make the window small? -.-
[14:54] <Laney> probably a good idea
[14:54] <Laney> RainCT: bug?
[14:54]  * Laney tries
[14:55] <Laney> made mine 5x3 and it didn't die
[14:55] <RainCT> it says "suddenly the dungeon collapses and you die" and then dies, happened already several times -.-
[14:55] <iulian> It's working fine here.
[14:56] <RainCT> grr
[14:56] <RainCT> try with Terminator, moving the separator slide so that screen has 0x0 px
[14:57] <didrocks> RainCT: thx :)
[14:58] <RainCT> To iulian or whoever asked about automatically making MOTUs reviewers, yes, this is on my TODO. I have started writing a script (well, it's basically nothing yet :P), if someone feels like finishing it please poke me
[14:59] <jpds> Laney: ^
[14:59]  * Laney refrains from poking
[14:59] <iulian> It wasn't me.  But yeah, that sounds good.
[14:59] <Laney> but good
[14:59] <RainCT> it should be pretty trivial.. (if nobody steps up I may even finish it myself later today/tomorrow)
[15:01]  * Laney cuddles interdiff
[15:01]  * RainCT deletes bzr-pager because it makes "bzr status" slow :/
[15:08] <Tonio_> Adri2000: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/frescobaldi http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/socnetv
[15:09] <Adri2000> Tonio_: not that I have a lot of spare time, but I'll try to take a look :)
[15:09] <Tonio_> Adri2000: socnetv revu should be quick
[15:09] <Tonio_> Adri2000: frescobaldi is a bit longuer though, since that's a python one
[15:10] <Adri2000> nothing kde-ish I hope? :p
[15:11] <Laney> is $(...) a bashism?
[15:11] <RainCT> Laney: nope
[15:11] <Laney> good
[15:11] <Tonio_> Adri2000: all kde/qt, of course :)
[15:12] <Laney> oh hey, it's your script RainCT ;)
[15:12] <Laney> qtparted-root
[15:12] <RainCT> Laney: you can try it out yourself, just enter a terminal and type "sh" :)
[15:12] <RainCT> heh
[15:12] <RainCT> Laney: That's an old one.. :). Is there some problem with it?
[15:12] <Adri2000> Tonio_: ;s
[15:13] <Laney> RainCT: Just uploading a fix to it
[15:13] <Tonio_> Adri2000: socnetv is a pure qt app, not related to kde, btw :)
[15:13] <Laney> bug 257220 if you care
[15:17] <RainCT> Laney: Uhm, I don't like that script :P. It relies on gnome-panel, which is not necessarily used on all GNOME environments.. And neither on XFCE, etc
[15:18] <RainCT> and why is it twice in the file? XD
[15:18] <Laney> heh
[15:18] <Laney> you wrote it!
[15:18]  * Tonio_ wonders if qtparted should or not get removed from the archives....
[15:18] <Laney> is it obsolete?
[15:18] <Tonio_> Laney: it is unmaintained for years, and in jaunty we'll have partitionmanager, which is a lot better
[15:18] <Tonio_> Laney: pretty mich, yes
[15:19] <Tonio_> and unmaintained for.... 4 years at least :)
[15:19] <Laney> it is orphaned in Debian too
[15:19] <Tonio_> Laney: I just hope debian will drop it one day :)
[15:19] <Laney> Tonio_: You can be the one to make this happen!
[15:19] <directhex> is its replacement qt4?
[15:20] <Tonio_> Laney: I personaly let debian do the debian job, according to the debian policy, related to the debian archives :)
[15:20] <Laney> heh
[15:20] <Tonio_> directhex: it is kde4 replacement, yes, not qt4
[15:20] <RainCT> Btw, is there some more policykit usage, in Jaunty, or still only the core GNOME apps?
[15:21] <Tonio_> Laney: not that I don't want too, but they have different archives policy that I don't know about specially, and ubuntu is already a lot of work, btw..
[15:21] <Tonio_> Laney: and I don't think debian has partitionmanager since they don't have kde4 in stable right now
[15:21] <ScottK> Tonio_: Considering qtparted is actively dangerous in some respects I think removal in Ubuntu might be quite a reasonable thing to d.
[15:21] <pochu> RainCT: apt-cache rdepends libpolkit2 ;)
[15:21] <Tonio_> Laney: so they'll probably keep it until kde4 reaches the archives
[15:22] <RainCT> pochu: I'm not on Jaunty :)
[15:22] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'm not archive admin, but my opinion would be to get rid of it :)
[15:22] <directhex> RainCT, sudo DIST=jaunty pbuilder login
[15:22] <Laney> Tonio_: ok then
[15:22] <Laney> Tonio_: You are a MOTU, right? Then you can have packages removed
[15:22] <RainCT> directhex: uhm, right :P.   /me runs  cowbuilder-jaunty login
[15:22] <ScottK> Tonio_: Then file a bug and subscribe the archive.  Need to say source and binary package names and say it has no rdepends (make this true first if it's not).
[15:23] <Tonio_> Laney: I'm core-dev, but to blacklist a package from the debian sync requires archive admin I guess
[15:23] <Laney> yeah
[15:23] <Laney> but you can make this happen
[15:23] <RainCT> Tonio_: file a bug and ask for removal + blacklisting
[15:23] <Tonio_> yup, doing this right now :)
[15:25] <RainCT> I don't see any new policykit usage.. :(
[15:26] <RainCT> When will they finally have the python bindings done? at the end I'll have to write some myself :P
[15:31] <directhex> RainCT, are there cil bindings? ^_^
[15:32] <RainCT> directhex: doesn't look so
[15:32] <directhex> :(
[15:32] <directhex> :<
[15:32] <RainCT> Afaik you can still use it through D-Bus, but.. Who wants to use D-Bus? :P
[15:32] <Tonio_> ScottK: bug 329439
[15:35] <mok0> Uhm, we were talking about major transitions earlier today... just noticed that python2.6 hit the build queue...
[15:35] <ScottK> Tonio_: I marked it confirmed, but you could have too.
[15:35] <ScottK> mok0: Yep.
[15:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: a confirmation shouldn't be added by the reported right ? ^^
[15:36] <ScottK> Tonio_: For process bugs like this it's fine.
[15:36] <mok0> ScottK: isn't that a bit late? We'll have hundreds of python packages to check
[15:36] <ScottK> mok0: I want to argue with you slightly about sybmbols files including the debian revision.
[15:36] <RainCT> mok0: the default is still python2.5, I think
[15:36] <mok0> ScottK: alright, go ahead
[15:37] <ScottK> mok0: For a new package I agree, but patches can introduce symbol changes, so I don't think it's generally correct.
[15:37] <mok0> ScottK: oh, that would be highly irregular for a patch to do that
[15:37] <ScottK> The Debian gensymbols tools generate files with the revision included and I think it's somewhat pointless to remove them by hand.
[15:38] <ScottK> mok0: I've seen it happen.
[15:38] <mok0> ScottK: yes, and lintian complains about it...
[15:38] <ScottK> Good point.
[15:39] <ScottK> Perhaps the lintian maintainers and the dpkg-gensymbols maintainers should talk.
[15:39] <mok0> ScottK: well, I'll give in to the realities of life...
[15:39] <mok0> ScottK: perhaps they should :-)
[15:40] <mok0> ScottK: The idea of having a .symbols file in libraries is in principle a good one, but perhaps the introduction is a bit pre-mature
[15:40] <ScottK> It's a young technology.
[15:40] <mok0> Indeed
[15:40] <ScottK> At this point I think including them is good and eventually we'll figure out what to do with them.
[15:41] <mok0> ScottK: exactly. I advise people to include it, it's easier to do it right away than if we have to go back sometime and fix all the packages that don't have it
[15:42] <ScottK> RainCT and mok0: There is still some intent to go for Python 2.6 as default.
[15:42] <ScottK> There's a spec about this.
[15:42] <RainCT> ScottK: Is there a 2.6 package for Intrepid available?
[15:43] <mok0> ScottK: Oh, well then we know what to do after FF ;-)
[15:43] <ScottK> In a PPA some where.
[15:43] <mok0> RainCT: building as we speak
[15:43] <ScottK> mok0: Intrepid.
[15:43] <ScottK> doko also promises Python 3 support in pycentral.
[15:43] <mok0> ah intrepid
[15:44] <RainCT> doko: is your PPA safe? :P
[15:44] <mok0> I for one is looking forward to playing with "Python 3000"
[15:44] <RainCT> mok0: I see it's in his ppa :)
[15:44]  * ScottK plans to do it all in chroot.
[15:44]  * mok0 looks
[15:45]  * RainCT adds it to sources.list
[15:45]  * RainCT is sat that he couldn't just press an "Enable PPA" button in Launchpad *g*
[15:45] <RainCT> *sad
[15:45]  * RainCT hides
[15:46] <mok0> RainCT: uh-oh it has build failures
[15:46] <ScottK> There's an ubuntu2 in queue now.
[15:48]  * RainCT blames the author of python-config for not providing a manpage
[15:49] <mok0> RainCT: that package didn't go through my reviewing hands...
[15:49] <RainCT> hehe
[15:50]  * mok0 is known to uploaders as Mr. Manpage
[15:50]  * RainCT hugs mok0 
[15:50]  * mok0 hugs RainCT  back
[15:51] <mok0> Maybe I'm just too much of a CLI guy and not one of these pointy-clicky types
[15:51] <RainCT> uhm.. now why did I install python2.6 if I have no modules compatible with it anyway? :P
[15:51] <mok0> RainCT: ... rebuild the modules?
[15:52] <mok0> RainCT: are you installing it on spooky :-P
[15:52] <RainCT> Doesn't work, I guess I need a newer pycentral/pysupport
[15:52] <RainCT> lol
[15:54] <mok0> Is it acceptable to upload a package which depends on another package in the new queue?
[15:54] <RainCT> RFF (Request for Feedback :)): Who should be able to add/remove tags to packages on REVU?
[15:55] <mok0> RainCT:  motus
[15:55] <Laney> what are tags used for?
[15:55] <RainCT> Laney: nothing :)
[15:55] <mok0> Laney: yet
[15:55] <Laney> alright, what will they be for?
[15:55] <Laney> will there be a static list?
[15:56] <mok0> there should be
[15:56] <mok0> Laney: one uses would be to tag it for particular Ubuntu teams
[15:57] <Laney> reviewers then
[15:57] <Laney> unless, hmm
[15:57] <Laney> if it's a kind of triaging, then maybe the bug squad might like to help
[15:57] <mok0> Laney: copyright-checked, copyright-undetermined
[15:58] <mok0> fast-track
[15:58] <mok0> python, mono, c++
[15:58] <mok0> stuff like that?
[15:59] <ScottK> Laney: I don't think bugsquad is at all suited.
[15:59] <Laney> I don't know if I like the idea of the copyright ones, but the rest are reasonable
[16:00] <Laney> ScottK: Probably not, was just a though
[16:00] <Laney> t
[16:01] <RainCT> Okay, I'll allow it to Reviewers and Moderators then
[16:01] <mok0> Laney: perhaps, it came out of a discussion RainCT  and I had about a step of triaging the copyright of uploaded packages before actual reviewing begins
[16:03] <mok0> There often are uploads without COPYING files and it would be good to have a way to keep those out of the list until the problem is solved
[16:04] <Laney> This is just a part of normal reviewing IMO - each package should be taken as a whole
[16:05] <mok0> I've a few times seen packages with that problem that have gone through several cycles of review/upload. The uploaders become quite frustrated when you tell them that it won't be accepted without the license
[16:05] <mok0> understandably so
[16:06] <mok0> Laney: you are right of course, but in the heat of battle, reviewer do forget to check everything
[16:06] <Laney> we should get to this problem sooner then
[16:07] <AndrewGee> Hey all. Any MOTUs available to review my package, gpxviewer? It's an application that allows users to look at GPS traces files in GPX format. Thanks :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gpxviewer
[16:07] <Laney> educating reviewers and uploaders to check copyright basics first
[16:07] <Laney> AndrewGee: Did I see this on planet recently?
[16:07] <AndrewGee> Laney: Yeah. Probably :)
[16:07] <mok0> Laney: I suggested a separate step for copyright checks before reviews, and then rainct proposed the tag idea
[16:07] <Turl> hi, can you help me with some lintian warnings? I'm new to packaging
[16:07] <mok0> Laney: just throwing ideas around
[16:07] <RainCT> And a more technical question, my first idea was to store them in a varchar (in the form "tag1;tag2;tag3;" in the SourcePackages table). Is this reasonable or does someone see some reason why having two new tables instead (tid|tag, tid|usid)?
[16:08] <Laney> mok0: Don't use a database like that :(
[16:08] <RainCT> * would be better?
[16:08] <Laney> RainCT: *
[16:08] <mok0> RainCT: just store sid, text
[16:08] <mok0> RainCT: or sid, tagid
[16:08] <Laney> mok0: I can see the problem happening the other way round with this copyright step
[16:09] <mok0> RainCT: then you can have as many keywords as you like on a source package
[16:09] <RainCT> mok0: uhm right, one new table would be enough (sid|tag, for everything else we have GROUP BY :))
[16:09] <Laney> people ping upload for changes
[16:09] <Laney> upstream*
[16:09] <Laney> and then we decide we don't want the package after all
[16:09] <Laney> but maybe that will be more rare
[16:09] <RainCT> mok0: the amount of keyboards isn't really a problem.. I checked and with VARCHAR(255) I could get around 50 tags to fit
[16:09] <mok0> Laney: yes, that's true
[16:10] <RainCT> *keywoards XD
[16:10] <mok0> RainCT: :-D
[16:10] <Turl> how can I check if I can remove export DH_COMPAT=4 safely?
[16:10] <mok0> RainCT: but it's much simpler to scan a table for sid's
[16:11] <ScottK> Turl: If you have the file debian/compat and it has a number 4 or higher in it.
[16:11] <RainCT> Turl: You can. "export DH_COMPAT" is deprecated, create a file called debian/compat with content "4" isntad
[16:11] <RainCT> *instead
[16:11] <Turl> thanks ScottK, RainCT :)
[16:12]  * mok0 thinks compat should be a field in rules  O:) 
[16:12] <RainCT> mok0: But it requires an additional query in details.py. It will probably simplify other stuff later, though, so I think I'll go with it :)
[16:12]  * ScottK thinks put your Debian hat on and have a flamewar about it there.
[16:13] <mok0> ScottK: Perhaps now is a good time, when everyone is worked up and happy after celebrating Lenny's release
[16:14] <RainCT> mok0: I agree, but perhaps they will get angry at you because debian/control is requried by policy but debhelper is not :P
[16:14] <ScottK> Well I think they moved from debian/rules to debian/compat for some reason.
[16:14] <sebner> mok0: yeah, good idea. have an extra file just for one number in it ... :D
[16:14] <mok0> sebner: :-)
[16:15] <Laney> makes it easy for dh to parse it
[16:15] <mok0> sebner: another two-byte file
[16:15] <sebner> ehehe
[16:15] <mok0> Laney: AFAIK debelper knows how to parse control :-)
[16:15] <Laney> ah control
[16:15] <Laney> you said rules ;)
[16:15] <RainCT> cat|grep|cut (or cat|awk)
[16:15] <RainCT> isn't that difficuly to get a value from debian/control
[16:16] <mok0> I did :-/ I meant control of course
[16:16] <mok0> A field in control
[16:16] <Laney> yes, very easy to do it there
[16:16] <mok0> Laney: it definitely does _not_ belong in rules
[16:17] <Turl> now, a binary lacks its own manpage :/. but its mentioned on the main binary manpage. Lintian says I can make a symlink, how?
[16:17] <Laney> Turl: use dh_link
[16:17] <Laney> man dh_link
[16:17] <Turl> Laney: which package is it in?
[16:18] <RainCT> Laney: debhelper
[16:18] <Turl> I don't seem to have it installed :/
[16:18] <Laney> debhelper
[16:18] <RainCT> err, Turl :)
[16:18] <Turl> stupid me, I installed devscripts and not devhelper after reinstalling Jaunty :p
[16:23] <Turl> dh_link usr/share/man/man1/proxychains.1 usr/share/man/man1/proxyresolv.1
[16:24] <Turl> would that be ok?
[16:25] <iulian> That should do it.
[16:25] <Laney> I prefer to make a package.links file, but that's right too
[16:26] <Turl> another one, FSSTND-dir-in-usr usr/etc/
[16:26] <RainCT> Turl: config files go to /etc,  not /usr/etc
[16:26] <Turl> how can I change that RainCT?
[16:27] <Turl> in debian/rules I guess?
[16:27] <RainCT> Turl: yes, using mv in debian/rules is usally the easiest way
[16:27] <RainCT> Turl: but don't forget to patch any file referring to /usr/etc so that it looks in /etc
[16:27] <sebner> Turl: and squashing upstream :P
[16:28] <Turl> upstream is quite dead :p
[16:28] <RainCT> (you can do this with a normal patch or using sed in debian/rules, but if you do the later don't forget to revert the change in clean:)
[16:28] <Laney> #
[16:28] <Laney> If there are Ubuntu changes apart from debian/changelog or if FeatureFreeze is in effect:
[16:28] <Laney> * A copy of the entries from debian/changelog corresponding to the changes relative to the current version in Ubuntu
[16:28] <Laney> Anyone object to removing the first line of that?
[16:28] <Laney> (from w.u.c)
[16:28] <Turl> can I use a normal patch with quilt RainCT?
[16:29] <RainCT> Turl: sure
[16:29] <sebner> quilt \o/
[16:31] <Laney> sebner: can you look at the moon upload?
[16:31] <Laney> btw how was service this week?!
[16:32] <RainCT> mok0: suggestions on where to show the tags in details.py are welcome :P
[16:33] <RainCT> below "subscribers:" was my first idea, but if I want to convert the tags list into an input it looks ugly there
[16:34] <_16ar_> mok0: I have put the Debian GPL2 information in X-Comment now, I'm sorry I misguided quadrispro
[16:35] <dolanor> 3
[16:35] <mok0> ScottK: I've been trying to dist-upgrade my home intrepid box to jaunty, but I get the following conflict:
[16:35] <mok0> ... got any ideas on how to solve that?
[16:35] <dolanor> (oops)
[16:35] <sebner> Laney: it was ok since we had theoretic lessons mostly ... next week will be a little more tougher :\ , moon upload?
[16:35] <ScottK> mok0: What conflict?
[16:35] <Laney> bug 329376
[16:35] <RainCT> mok0: which conflict?
[16:36] <mok0> ScottK:  ugh it started with a / so IRC ate it
[16:36] <Adri2000> is it possible a request a FFe before FF and before the upstream version is out? :p
[16:36] <mok0>  /var/cache/apt/archives/kde-window-manager-4%3a4.2.0-0ubuntu4_i386.deb is trying to overwrite /usr/share/kde4/apps/kconf-update/plasma-add-shortcut-to-menu.upd which is also in package kdebase-workspace-data
[16:37] <sebner> Laney: ahaha! with more feeling
[16:37] <Laney> moonlight is sexy and we want it!
[16:37] <ScottK> mok0: Let me look into it.
[16:37] <sebner> Adri2000: well, ask motu-release folks! :D
[16:38] <sebner> Laney: pfff beta, tell directhex to update to final and sync/upload that stuff :P
[16:38] <Laney> it is final
[16:38] <Laney> check the version number
[16:39] <ScottK> mok0: Looks like a missing conflicts/replaces.  It should be safe to force it.
[16:39] <ScottK> Adri2000: You can always ask.
[16:41] <sebner> Laney: aha! I was wondering
[16:41] <Laney> heh
[16:41] <Adri2000> ScottK: actually the situation is: there is a new version upstream with new features, but I don't want to upload it now because there are known bugs. these bugs will be fixed in the next version (which will be bugfix only) probably released just after FF. what should I do?
[16:42] <sebner> Laney: BTW! just wondering .. you are MOTU now ^^
[16:42] <mok0> ScottK: ok, thanks
[16:42] <Laney> sebner: Yeah but I did a sync from NEW yesterday ;)
[16:42] <sebner> Laney: and?
[16:42] <ScottK> Adri2000: When is the bugfix release expected?
[16:42] <Laney> wanted to share the joy with you
[16:42]  * Laney is sponsoring other things atm
[16:43] <sebner> Laney: heh, well ... it's approved by meebey right? I'll look at it and upload it later then if you are fine with that?
[16:43] <Laney> yep
[16:43] <Adri2000> ScottK: the rc is out since yesterday, and upstream told me final is expected 6-7 days later
[16:44]  * pochu waves at sebner 
[16:44] <ScottK> Adri2000: Is the RC the known buggy one?
[16:44]  * sebner hugs pochu :D
[16:44]  * pochu hugs sebner back :)
[16:44] <sebner> Laney: good boys also attach the .dsc file :P
[16:44] <Laney> nahhhh
[16:44] <Laney> you actually look at that?
[16:45] <Adri2000> ScottK: nope, the previous stable release is the buggy one. that rc should fix the known bugs
[16:45] <sebner> Laney: hm?
[16:45] <RainCT> sebner: if you're talking about a new upstream version, you're supposed to download
[16:45] <ScottK> Adri2000: I'd upload the RC then.
[16:45] <Laney> sebner: Apply the diff to an empty directory and then run the get-orig-source
[16:45] <RainCT> * the .orig.tar.gz yourself to ensure that it wasn't modified, so a .dsc wouldn't make anything easier anyway
[16:45] <Laney> then you can make the dsc
[16:45] <sebner> Laney: I know, me is just lazy
[16:46] <sebner> :P
[16:46] <sebner> RainCT: dget :P
[16:46] <Laney> naughty
[16:46] <Laney> you need more military service
[16:46] <Laney> they haven't disciplined you yet!
[16:46] <RainCT> hehe
[16:46] <ScottK> sebner: It's not funny.  It's a potential security risk.  If you take a tarball from a non-developer it breaches the chain of trust.
[16:46]  * directhex flings betas @ sebner 
[16:47] <sebner> ScottK: of course it is. At least if the uploaders are unknown to me
[16:47] <sebner> directhex: ahahaha!
[16:47] <sebner> Laney: NAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[16:47] <Laney> wow
[16:47] <Laney> even more javascript on edge
[16:47] <ScottK> sebner: If the uploaders need sponsoring, it's a security risk.  You may trust them, but Ubuntu has not chosen to.
[16:47] <RainCT> Laney: where?
[16:47] <pochu> Laney: Launchpad 3.0 will switch from Python to JS
[16:48] <Laney> RainCT: bug titles
[16:48] <directhex> (use get-orig-source then)
[16:48] <RainCT> Laney: in links?
[16:48] <Turl> pochu: JS... on the server? :p
[16:48] <Laney> RainCT: No, editing bug titles
[16:48]  * Laney likes this not reloading business
[16:48] <RainCT> Laney: oh, for projects too :)
[16:48] <sebner> ScottK: understood :)
[16:48] <pochu> Turl: hola emilio :)
[16:49] <Adri2000> ScottK: given that I'm the co-maintainer of that package in debian, I wanted to package it in debian and then sync. I'm not sure debian wants me to upload a rc and a few days later the final, just because of ubuntu FF :p
[16:49] <RainCT> if they only got ride of that evil red thingie :P
[16:49] <Turl> hola pochu :)
[16:49] <RainCT> uhm.. now ScottK will kill me for saying "evil" :)
[16:49] <pochu> Turl: s/emilio/tocayo/ ;)
[16:49] <ScottK> Adri2000: Particularly not right in the post-lenny rush.
[16:49] <ScottK> Adri2000: I'd upload the RC here and then sync the final from Debian when ready.
[16:49] <directhex> sebner, that's why there's a get-orig-source rule on moon, if it bothers you
[16:50] <ScottK> RainCT: That particular individual has a history of being obnoxious.
[16:50] <ScottK> And yes, he didn't get and I will killfile him now.
[16:50] <Turl> asi que te llamas emilio tambien pochu? :p
[16:51] <directhex> ScottK, obnoxious people? on the internet? :o
[16:51] <Adri2000> ScottK: yep, that's a good idea
[16:51] <ScottK> Well they're welcome to be obnoxious, but I'm not obligated to listen.
[16:55]  * RainCT gets ride of the "reset" button in REVU's comment form
[16:57] <k0p> folks when is the freeze features of ubuntu 9.04?
[16:57] <RainCT> k0p: this tuesday, iirc
[16:57] <ScottK> The 19th
[16:57] <k0p> :-/
[16:57] <k0p> ok
[16:57] <k0p> thanks anyway
[16:58] <RainCT> ah, so thursday
[16:58] <k0p> yeap
[16:59] <Turl> guys, where should I put the mv command in debian/rules?
[16:59] <Turl> I need it to move a config file
[17:00] <geser> Turl: where is it currently and where do you want it?
[17:00] <RainCT> Do non-CDBS packages have a "install" target?
[17:00] <geser> yes
[17:00] <Turl> geser: its on /usr/etc/proxychains.conf and need it on /etc/proxychains
[17:01] <RainCT> then in the "install" target, Turl
[17:02] <Turl> any specific point RainCT?
[17:02] <imbrandon> r
[17:02] <Laney> s
[17:03] <geser> t
[17:03] <imbrandon> lol
[17:03] <Turl> u
[17:03] <RainCT> o.O
[17:03] <jpds> v
[17:04] <Nafallo> g
[17:04] <RainCT> c
[17:05] <DktrKranz> l
[17:05] <RainCT> (key next to G using Dvorak :P.. and no, I don't use Dvorak yet :P)
[17:05] <sebner> schalalalala!
[17:05] <sebner> !OT
[17:05] <jpds> What a jammy bunch we are.
[17:05] <RainCT> :9
[17:05] <RainCT> * :)
[17:06] <DktrKranz> a bit of crazyness between some uploads...
[17:06] <sebner> Laney: /me is wondering if I should eliminate the only lintian warning: W: moon source: dh-clean-k-is-deprecated
[17:06] <ScottK> sebner: You should.
[17:06] <sebner> DktrKranz: before Debian release! :D
[17:06] <Laney> sebner: Why not? Do it in SVN too
[17:07] <sebner> Laney: /me supposed Debian folks are lintian clean :P
[17:07] <sebner> ScottK: as you wish master =)
[17:07] <Laney> probably running an older lintian
[17:07] <Laney> that one is pretty new afaik
[17:07] <DktrKranz> sebner, yeah!
[17:08] <sebner> Laney: kk
[17:08] <sebner> DktrKranz: and then "penetrate" all the good stuff into ubuntu before FF ^^
[17:08] <Turl> what paths should I use in the mv in the install target in my debian/rules in my deb package of proxychains? :)
[17:08] <Turl> (to move the config file I talked earlier about)
[17:09] <RainCT> Turl: $(CURDIR)/<pkgname>/usr/etc  $(CURDIR)/<pkgname>/etc
[17:09] <DktrKranz> sebner, mmmmm
[17:09] <Turl> thanks RainCT
[17:09] <RainCT> where <pkgname> is the name of the binary package
[17:09] <RainCT> you're weñcome
[17:09] <RainCT> *welcome
[17:09] <Turl> RainCT: spanish too?
[17:09]  * RainCT can't type anymore since he uses the laptop :P
[17:09] <RainCT> Turl: Catalan :)
[17:10] <Turl> well, near
[17:10] <sebner> DktrKranz: bad idea?
[17:11] <DktrKranz> sebner, look at ubuntu-motu ML :)
[17:11] <Turl> next one, non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink usr/lib/libproxychains.so.3.0.0 usr/lib/libproxychains.so
[17:11] <Turl> any thought on that one?
[17:11] <sebner> DktrKranz: ah that mail about the Debian release and the FF? I think I hardly read the content :P
[17:12] <RainCT> Turl: btw, of you run  lintian -iI *.changes  you'll get more details
[17:12] <Turl> it's not a development library afaik
[17:12] <Turl> RainCT: I have the details :p
[17:13] <Turl> but idk what to do, as it isn't a devel library, afaik proxychains loads it on everything you "proxychain" so it uses the proxy
[17:13] <Turl> can I omit it?
[17:15] <ScottK> sebner: Uploads done immediately post-release in Debian are not famous for being well considered.  Do be careful.
[17:15] <sebner> ScottK: I know, It was more like a joke (I think I matured in that case) .. besides I only have inet access on weekends :(
[17:16] <ScottK> sebner: OK.
[17:26] <Turl> any idea how can I easily fix ancient-libtool ltconfig?
[17:26] <dolanor> Any MOTU available to revu/advocate my hexdiff package ? Tool to visually see differences in hexadecimal between files : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hexdiff
[17:29] <ScottK> Turl: Easily no.  Google relibtoolize
[17:29] <Turl> ok ScottK
[17:38] <ScottK> mok0: Fixed in bzr, so it'll be in the next upload.  The conflicts/replaces we there, just not correctly versioned.
[17:39] <mok0> ScottK: good to hear... btw my system upgrade worked and I now have a working KDE4.2! Woot!
[17:39] <ScottK> mok0: Excellent.
[17:39] <mok0> ScottK: the only thing I've discovered so far that's not working is my TV tuner card
[17:40]  * ScottK looks at the kernel then ....
[17:41] <dolanor> mok0: kde 4.2 under ubuntu 8.10 ?
[17:41] <mok0> dolanor: no unfortunately... 9.04
[17:41] <ScottK> dolanor: There are experimental packages for 8.10 in the kubuntu-experimental PPA.  Use at your own risk.
[17:42] <mok0> I tried those a few weeks ago and hosed my intrepid system...
[17:43] <ScottK> Hmm.  The only issue I know of with them is with plasma stuff that didn't get rebuilt?
[17:44] <mok0> I honestly can't remember the details, as I recall I could find no way to log in
[17:48] <ScottK> That doesn't sound promising.
[17:49] <mok0> I didn't have a lot of patience that day
[17:49] <ScottK> Understand.
[17:50] <Turl> ScottK, I think I'll leave the relibtoolize for a far, far future :p
[17:50] <Turl> fixed everything but it
[17:50] <ScottK> As I said, no easy way.
[17:58] <dolanor> mok0: I've fixed the debian/copyright problem with the X-Comment, if you could look at it ^^'
[18:08] <_16aR_> mok0: Thanks for advocation :)
[18:09] <_16aR_> (don't know if advocation is english, though ^^)
[18:09]  * RainCT realizes that he has never used Ajax, but AHAH :P
[18:10] <mok0> _16aR_: errr... what package?
[18:10] <mok0> RainCT: it's the big fad these days
[18:10] <_16aR_> need 1 more advocate on hexdiff package, utility to visually see differences between 2 files in hexadecimal : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hexdiff
[18:11] <mok0> _16aR_: ah, new nick?
[18:11] <dolanor_> Sorry mok0 :)
[18:11] <RainCT> mok0: yeah, that's why REVU is getting it :P
[18:11] <dolanor_> yes, I use both of them on IRC
[18:11] <Turl> RainCT: AHAH? I'm a web dev, and never heard that :p
[18:11] <mok0> dolanor_: the current one is easier to type
[18:12] <mok0> dolanor_: the other one sounds like a password
[18:12] <dolanor_> Yes, the problem is I can't begin IRC name with number ...
[18:12] <mok0> what's wrong with starting with a letteR?
[18:12] <RainCT> Turl: Me neither (until now :P). Seems like it is what Ajax is called when you directly use the data received from the server (ie, it's not XML/JSON/whatever, which you have to parse, but directly text or HTML)
[18:13] <dolanor_> no that's just a wordplay in french
[18:13] <RainCT> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHAH
[18:14] <Turl> cool RainCT. So I have been using a new technology without even knowing its name? :p
[18:15] <RainCT> hehe
[18:15] <Turl> anyway, that's quite unstandard :p
[18:16] <Turl> unless you use mootools' Request.HTML and then use DOM to insert it, but as that can be considered to be client-side parsing, it's AJAX again. what a dilema :p
[18:17] <dolanor_> 16 is pronounced : sayze (http://swac-collections.org/index.php?page=snd_info&idx=259281), and ar is pronounced : are == Cesar in french
[18:18] <dolanor_> mok0: the problem is to begin with 1, for 16aR. So I need to begin with another char. I choosed _
[18:19] <Turl> so in the end, it means you're 16-yo?
[18:22] <dolanor_> yes
[18:22] <dolanor_> and I'm packaging hotbabe :p
[18:23] <Turl> well, I'm 16-yo too :p
[18:25] <Turl> dolanor_: I won't be able to use your package, my cpu is always idle :(
[18:26] <dolanor_> install folding@home :p
[18:27] <Turl> I might install it on my old pentium3
[18:27] <Turl> :p
[18:27] <Turl> they don't work OK on jaunty, they rise the CPU clock even with schedtool :/
[18:28] <Turl> and cpu @ 2Ghz = burnt laptop :p
[18:30] <dolanor_> In fact
[18:30] <dolanor_> my f@h let the clock a 1Ghz on intrepid
[18:32] <Turl> I used to run them, but I can't anymore
[18:33] <Turl> btw dolanor_, the package you're making is already on medibuntu :P
[18:33] <Turl> and it has a little note on the end of the description: "This package is in Medibuntu because of its explicit content."
[18:35] <dolanor_> what package ? hexdiff ?
[18:35] <dolanor_> you're kidding ? :(
[18:35] <dolanor_> ah no hotbabe
[18:35] <dolanor_> I was joking :)
[18:35] <dolanor_> I know it isn't in ubuntu, and that's sad :/
[18:38] <Turl> cool. the new f-spot package wants to delete half my system :p
[18:38] <Laney> Turl: Pastebin the output please
[18:39] <ScottK> It's a feature.  Gnome doesn't want to confuse you with too many choices.
[18:39] <dolanor_> lol
[18:40] <sebner> gnome!!!!!
[18:40] <sebner> even linus switched to it
[18:40] <sebner> he knows what's good :P
[18:40] <Laney> to, and from, and to
[18:41]  * Laney is tempted to try xfce
[18:41] <Turl> Laney: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/553461/Pantallazo.png
[18:41] <DktrKranz> Turl, work in progress (tm) ;)
[18:41] <Turl> Laney: xfce is good, but isn't as featured as GNOME
[18:41] <Laney> Turl: Er, that looks right to me
[18:41] <Laney> how is that half your system?
[18:41] <Turl> tomboy, what's doing tomboy there :p
[18:41] <Laney> tomboy isn't transitioned yet
[18:42] <Turl> Laney: it's a way of saying
[18:42] <Laney> i thought it was something serious :(
[18:42] <Turl> Laney: the other day, for example, updating apt-get required to delete ubuntu-desktop, network manager, a bunch of gnome apps, ...
[18:42] <Turl> waiting solved it :p
[18:43] <Laney> this is what you get for running the dev release
[18:43] <Laney> all good fun!
[18:43] <Turl> so, should I install this f-spot thing? I can wait, I haven't ever launched it :p
[18:43] <Laney> it's a good application
[18:43] <DktrKranz> ubuntu hasn't bugs. we introduce some just to have something to fix
[18:43]  * Turl still wonders why does ubuntu bring tomboy. it's crap :p
[18:44] <Laney> how is it crap?
[18:44] <blueyed> Where can I get previous Debian packages for "experimental"? (I want to have a patch between the current version in experimental and the previous one, for merging into Ubunu)
[18:44] <Turl> blueyed: on debian packages page I guess? try packages.debian.org
[18:45] <Laney> I don't think snapshots does exp, does it?
[18:46] <blueyed> no, Laney.
[18:46] <blueyed> Turl: there's only the current version on e.g. http://packages.debian.org/experimental/virtualbox-ose
[18:46] <ScottK> blueyed: If the package is maintained in a VCS, that's probably your best bet.
[18:46] <blueyed> ScottK: it is, and I've thought about it, but would be nicer to have the "real release".
[18:47] <geser> blueyed: try google, perhaps it's still on some slow mirror
[18:47] <blueyed> how does MoM handle it? does it keep the old releases to create the patches?
[18:47] <ScottK> I think that's the only place you're likely to find it unless geser's low mirror theory works.
[18:47] <ScottK> blueyed: MoM doesn't look at experimental.
[18:48] <blueyed> ScottK: yes.. but does it use snapshots for unstable?
[18:49] <ScottK> I don't think so.
[18:49] <ScottK> I think it just uses whatever is current.
[18:58] <txwikinger> Is slocate substituted by mlocate in jaunty ?
[18:59] <geser> wasn't it already done in intrepid?
[18:59] <txwikinger> well.. could be :D
[19:00] <geser> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ubuntu-standard lists mlocate as recommended
[19:03] <RainCT> guuuuuys.. REVU has tags now! :)
[19:03] <RainCT> (well, you can set them, but they aren't useful for anything yet :P)
[19:03] <txwikinger> well.. slocate does not install... I think I should change my dependency
[19:32] <AndrewGee> Hey all. Any MOTUs available to review my package, gpxviewer? It's an application that allows users to look at GPS traces files in GPX format. Thanks :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gpxviewer
[19:47] <c_korn> hello, I try to make scilab ready for universe: http://pastebin.com/d7a1bb1e1 what dies binNMUable mean?
[19:47] <directhex> c_korn, it's a debianism
[19:49] <directhex> c_korn, essentially, on debian, you can upload binaries to the archive (on ubuntu you can only upload source). so if you have an arch-all package like libfoo which depends on an arch-any package like libfoo-native, then someone uploads a new binary version of libfoo, then there's no guarantees that libfoo-native will match up if the version numbers fall out of sync
[19:49] <directhex> it's a bit messy
[19:49] <c_korn> hm, ok
[19:50] <c_korn> which linitian warnings/errors should I fix?
[19:51] <Laney> c_korn: Have you spoken to the science team about thsi?
[19:52] <Laney> it would be better if you could do the update with them
[19:52] <c_korn> I am in contact to the sylvestre ledru who maintains the package in debian-science
[19:52] <c_korn> -to +with -the
[19:52] <Laney> cool
[19:53] <Laney> can you do the update in their VCS
[19:53] <Laney> ?
[19:53] <c_korn> unfortunately not
[19:55] <Laney> why so?
[19:56] <c_korn> I can mail him the changes that would be required.
[19:58] <dolanor_> need 1 more advocate on hexdiff package, utility to visually see differences between 2 files in hexadecimal : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hexdiff
[20:00] <Laney> c_korn: It would be ideal if you could hang out in their IRC channel and do the changes directly in Debian
[20:00] <Laney> then both distros benefit
[20:10] <c_korn> ok. btw. is there actually a chance for scilab-5.1 to come in jaunty? https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/scilab/+bug/272264
[20:10] <c_korn> there is fop and jeuclid missing
[20:10] <c_korn> jeuclid is in the debian queue
[20:10] <c_korn> the debian developers are busy because of the new release.
[20:11] <c_korn> so I don't think it will come out of the queue before jauntys FF
[20:24] <loic-m> I'm not at home these days, and i can't for the life of me remember where I got the script to have pbuilder-jaunty-i386, pbuilder-intrepid-amd64, etc...
[20:24] <loic-m> I've googled for a while and looked at the MOTU wiki, but with no success
[20:24] <directhex> loic-m, a pbuilderrc on the wiki?
[20:24] <Laney> loic-m: pbuilder-dist
[20:24] <loic-m> something like that, yes
[20:24] <Laney> in ubuntu-dev-tools
[20:25] <loic-m> ok, thanks a lot Laney
[20:25] <RainCT> loic-m: if you're in Intrepid get the version from intrepid-backports, pbuilder-dist there has been highly improved (that is, rewritten in Python :P)
[20:26] <RainCT> (and unlike what it may seem, the Python version is actually faster than the previous Bash one)
[20:27] <loic-m> RainCT: thanks. Since I had to make a USB disk install to use Ubuntu, I went for Jaunty, but I'll remember that when I'm on my computer again
[20:27]  * directhex runs RainCT in ironpython
[20:27] <RainCT> :/
[20:27] <Laney> the version in jaunty has it too
[20:27] <RainCT> what's actually the point for ironpython?
[20:28] <directhex> RainCT, python syntax w/ access to all mono libs
[20:29] <directhex> RainCT, .net's designed to be multi-language
[20:30] <RainCT> (omg.. have you seen the guy complaining about ctrl+alt+backspace being removed because this way he can't know if the login screen is real...? o_O!!)
[20:31] <RainCT> what's actually the point for .net?
[20:31] <RainCT> ^^
[20:31] <Pici> (well thats certainly original)
[20:31] <RainCT> hehe
[20:33] <directhex> RainCT, like i said, it's a question of multi-languageness. you can write a library in ironpython, and one in vb.net, and use them in your c# app without knowing the difference. there's also ironscheme & ironruby... hell, boo & nemerle. and java, through ikvm
[20:33] <directhex> RainCT, rather than the usual "to use a lib in any language, gotta write in c" thing made of suck
[20:33] <RainCT> ah, nice concept
[20:34] <RainCT> but.. isn't that slow as hell?
[20:34] <directhex> RainCT, that's the "cil" part of the package names. "common intermediate language" is the bytecode that *all* .net languages compile to - and once it's in that form, the original language is irrelevant
[20:35] <directhex> RainCT, compared to what?
[20:35] <pochu> to C :)
[20:35] <RainCT> directhex: running interpreters for like 5 different languages for a single app
[20:35] <RainCT> or are they all first compiled to that bytecode you just mentioned?
[20:36] <directhex> RainCT, everything is compiled to cil. once there, it's JITted on execution.
[20:36] <RainCT> OK, makes sense. Thx
[20:36] <directhex> pochu, compared to c, yes, it's usually slower. i wouldn't write a computationally intensive piece of code in c#. or python, or java, or etc etc etc
[20:38] <Turl> how was the sponsors group named in launchpad?
[20:38] <RainCT> Turl: ubuntu-{universe,main}-sponsors
[20:38] <Turl> thanks RainCT :)
[20:39] <Turl> subscribed them, hope they update proxychains now
[20:44] <RainCT> Alright, REVU has a tag cloud and you can filter the index using a tag
[20:45] <RainCT> And it's now also possible to see both archived and unarchived packages at once, or only archived updated packages, etc.. with updated={true,false,both} and archived={true,false,both} in the URL
[20:46] <RainCT> (tag filters from the tag cloud default to show new and updated packages which are unarchived, but you can override this using what I've just told + tag=<tag name>)
[20:46] <RainCT> nhandler, mok0 ^
[20:57] <mok0> RainCT: /me looks
[20:58] <dolanor_> mok0: is there konversation in Qt4 in kde4.2 now ?
[20:58] <mok0> dolanor_: I think the new IRC client is quassel
[20:58] <ScottK> dolanor: The kde4 Konversation is not released yet.
[20:59] <ScottK> Konversation (the KDE3 version) is still on the Kubuntu dvd, but it not the default IRC client anymore.
[20:59] <mok0> RainCT: "Number of tags: 0" :-)
[21:01] <pochu> talking about IRC, anyone using irssi and ignoring JOINS/QUITS/PARTS? If so, how do you do to not read the whole screen when you switch channels? Now that I ignore those, sometimes I start to read a few lines before the last message and then I realize that was written some hours before...
[21:02] <pochu> since without joins/quits everything is together :) perhaps some sort of "red line" as XChat has marking the last lines you read (i.e. where was the channel when you switched to another window)
[21:04] <dolanor_> by the way, does a jabber chat/conference for ubuntu somewhere ?
[21:14] <RainCT> mok0: I've send a mail about this to ubuntu-motu@
[21:17] <c_korn> is there a command to install the build-depends when I am in a chroot?
[21:17] <RainCT> c_korn: apt-get build-dep <pkgname>
[21:18] <mok0> RainCT: nice!
[21:18] <c_korn> ehm, I want to build a package in a chroot? but manually because I know it will fail at some point.
[21:18]  * mok0 likes
[21:18] <c_korn> -? +.
[21:18] <RainCT> mok0: :)
[21:19] <RainCT> c_korn: use --bindmounts to get the package's source into the chroot and then build it normally.. dpkg-buildpackage
[21:21] <c_korn> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: ...
[21:21] <c_korn> I want to install those dependencies
[21:22] <RainCT> dolanor_: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/18041/ :)
[21:23] <dolanor_> I was wondering, does it exists some apt-get/aptitude command to download every .deb for 1 package except for the base package ?
[21:23] <dolanor_> héhé, thanks RainCT :)
[21:23] <RainCT> c_korn: as I said,  apt-get build-deps, or if the package is new (so that apt doesn't know them):    sudo /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends
[21:24] <dolanor_> that's one of his cool usage :)
[21:24] <RainCT> c_korn: (outside the chroot, or there if you install ubuntu-dev-tools, you can use get-build-deps)
[21:25] <RainCT> dolanor_: get-build-deps, but it will install them
[21:25] <Laney> c_korn: are you using pbuilder?
[21:25] <c_korn> no
[21:25] <Laney> You can set up a pbuilder hook that will drop you into a shell...
[21:25] <Laney> ok
[21:26] <Laney> never mind!
[21:27] <c_korn> get-build-deps just output some text:  -> Creating pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy package
[21:28] <c_korn> I just want to have the build dependencies in debian/control installed so I can run debian/rules build
[21:28] <RainCT> c_korn: and it doesn't install them?
[21:28] <RainCT> get-build-deps is a wrapper around pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy which is the application used by pbuilder to install the dependencies
[21:28] <c_korn> http://pastebin.com/dc7b8b06
[21:29] <mok0> c_korn: I uploaded jeuclid today
[21:29] <c_korn> mok0: upload? where did you upload it to?
[21:29] <Laney> RainCT: broken control parser? ;)
[21:29] <c_korn> sorry, I am new to this ubuntu package upstream things ;P
[21:30] <mok0> c_korn: ubuntu archive
[21:30] <RainCT> c_korn: can you paste the debian/control file too?
[21:31] <c_korn> http://pastebin.com/d825a6fc
[21:32] <c_korn> mok0: ok. can you update the bug report please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/326179
[21:32] <c_korn> I need to know the status of jeuclid for scilab
[21:32] <nhandler> RainCT: I like the new tags. Would it be possible to automatically set certain tags on packages?
[21:32] <mok0> c_korn: it's still in the new queue
[21:32] <c_korn> hm, ok
[21:33] <RainCT> nhandler: everything is possible :)
[21:33] <mok0> c_korn: fortunately turn-around time in the new queue is not Debianish 8 weeks
[21:33] <RainCT> + patches are welcome ^^
[21:33] <nhandler> RainCT: I'll try. But as you probably saw from my last attemp, my python is pretty bad
[21:38] <c_korn> I am installing the dependencies manually now
[21:42] <RainCT> mok0: pbuilder-sat.. fails to parse the #
[21:42] <RainCT> are they even allowed by policy?
[21:49] <mok0> RainCT: you mean in control files?
[21:49] <dolanor_> RainCT: yes, but I think get-build-deps will only take the non-already installed package, right ?
[21:50] <dolanor_> I was meaning taking the whole dependency tree without the base package since it is already in every ubuntu
[21:51] <dolanor_> the goal : I have an offline server, I want to install some new package without getting every .deb by hand, and verifying dependencies myself
[21:53] <RainCT> mok0: yes
[21:54] <RainCT> dolanor_: perhaps you can create a download script with Synaptic
[21:54] <dolanor_> I want to package some game ... But it needs 1 library. But in the upstream package, it packages the dependency and build it ... Do I need to create a lib package for the dependency ? It is a static library right now
[21:57] <mok0> I've occasionally seen fields commented out with '#'s, it works that way
[22:08] <RainCT> mok0: so we should fix pbuilder?
[22:09] <loic-m> Laney: ping
[22:09] <Laney> hi
[22:09] <loic-m> Laney: did you try to build e-uae i386 on an amd64 OS?
[22:09] <Laney> yep
[22:10] <Laney> i386 pbuilder
[22:10] <loic-m> I think that's the problem ;)
[22:10] <Laney> how so?
[22:10] <loic-m> your error message has "asm" in it
[22:10] <loic-m> It builds fine on an i386 OS using pbuilder
[22:10] <Laney> does it build on real i386 hardware?
[22:10] <Laney> right
[22:10] <Laney> can you upload to a PPA to convince me? :)
[22:11] <loic-m> I'm not home, and I didn't take my key with me on my external HD
[22:11] <loic-m> I'm on holidays atm
[22:12] <Laney> hm
[22:12] <loic-m> The problem is the same with Jaunty e-uae packages already
[22:12] <mok0> RainCT: I'm fading, let's discuss pbuilder tomorrow
[22:13] <dolanor_> need 1 more advocate on hexdiff package, utility to visually see differences between 2 files in hexadecimal : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hexdiff
[22:14] <mok0> Of course we all read diffs in hex,  ascii is for sissys
[22:14] <mok0> :-)
[22:19] <Laney> loic-m: I will build on amd64 and trust you then
[22:21] <loic-m> Laney: Thanks. If you look at the diff, the only change is the addition of a .desktop file, the source is left same as before
[22:21] <directhex> hex is for sissys
[22:21] <directhex> octal!
[22:21] <Laney> loic-m: I know, but I can't upload a broken package
[22:22] <loic-m> Laney: But I'll upload them to my PPA is the packages haven't entered the repos when I get back home.
[22:25] <loic-m> Laney: if it can help, I've built the package on a Jaunty i386 pbuilder two times between your post and now, just to make sure, and checked the program run
[22:25] <dolanor_> mok0: :p
[22:27] <Laney> loic-m: building
[22:28] <dolanor_> By the way, why dh_make still suck with XSBC-Original-Maintainer etc
[22:28] <dolanor_> it should be patch for ubuntu :'(
[22:28] <loic-m> Laney: Good. On the machine I'm on atm, it takes aaaages
[22:36] <Laney> loic-m: Uploaded. I just removed a / from /usr/share/applications in your dh_install call
[22:36] <Laney> thanks for your contribution
[22:36] <Laney> double thanks for forwarding it to Debian
[22:39] <loic-m> Laney: thanks a lot
[22:39] <Laney> rock on \m/
[22:40] <dolanor_> nobody got an idea for packaging a static lib dependency directly in the game itself ?
[22:40] <loic-m> Laney: about the / you removed, you mean I should use usr/share/applications instead of /usr/share/applications ?
[22:40] <Laney> yes, that's right
[22:40] <Laney> check man dh_install
[22:40] <loic-m> Laney: thanks, I've learnt something ;)
[22:48] <RainCT> the CFLAGS stuff in debian/rules can be removed if make isn't used, or?
[22:59] <Laney> Suite: stable
[22:59] <Laney> Version: 5.0
[22:59] <Laney> Codename: lenny
[22:59] <Laney> !!!
[23:01] <directhex> ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/Release
[23:01] <directhex> :o
[23:01]  * Laney dist-upgrades
[23:05] <ia> hello. could you tell me, please, how should looks like line in "install" section of "rules" file, if for installing app in top directory needs to execute script "script.sh install"? I've tried "$(CURDIR)/script.sh install", but it doesn't work.
[23:06] <RainCT> ia: does it give some error?
[23:07] <RAOF> Probably it doesn't respect DESTDIR, and you'll need to patch the script.
[23:08] <RAOF> You want to install to $(CURDIR)/debian/somewhere, rather than /.
[23:19] <c_korn> someone I spoke with here wanted to compile fop when xmlgraphics-common 1.3.1 is in jaunty. it is in jaunty now and fop should compile now. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fop/+bug/326171
[23:20] <c_korn> bye