[01:36] <emgent> !schedule rome
[01:36] <emgent> @schedule rome
[01:36] <nhandler> emgent: It doesn't handle the meetings anymore iirc
[01:36] <nhandler> Look at the Google calendar
[01:37] <emgent> ya will do, danke.
[17:14] <nhandler> Did I miss any messages?
[18:41] <asac> nhandler: in -meeting not for the last 7 hours ;)
[18:41] <asac> 17
[18:41] <asac> ;)
[18:45] <nhandler> asac: ???
[18:46] <jacob> nhandler: channel has been empty
[19:02] <nhandler> Is it time for the motu-release meeting?
[19:02] <DktrKranz> it is, waiting for sistpoty to arrive
[19:08] <cody-somerville> Wee
[19:09] <EDavidBurg> chat
[19:11] <sistpoty> hi, sorry for being late
[19:12] <DktrKranz> we were waiting for you :)
[19:12] <iulian> Hello sistpoty.
[19:12] <nhandler> No problem. ScottK wanted me to pass this message along "I won't be able to make the meeting. Please send my regrets. I may be able to pop in a bit via irc from my phone."
[19:12] <sistpoty> hi iulian
[19:12] <iulian> Ouh.
[19:12] <DktrKranz> oh...
[19:14] <sistpoty> so let's get started?
[19:14] <DktrKranz> \o/
[19:15]  * ScottK-palm2 is sort of here.
[19:15] <iulian> OK, great.
[19:15] <sistpoty> \o/
[19:15] <sistpoty> I guess we're first up with some nhandler grilling?
[19:15]  * DktrKranz is hungry
[19:15] <sistpoty> then go ahead DktrKranz :)
[19:16]  * nhandler hopes he tastes good
[19:16] <DktrKranz> yum... erm... dpkg :)
[19:16] <sistpoty> heh
[19:16] <iulian> I'm not but I can take a piece. ;)
[19:17] <DktrKranz> nhandler, in your email you stated you can say "no" to people requesting an update. What about if such a request comes from a core-dev?
[19:18] <DktrKranz> (or a well-known foundation team's member?)
[19:18] <nhandler> DktrKranz: I have interacted with many core-devs before. I won't be intimidated by them, and their title has no bearing on my decision
[19:18] <sistpoty> nhandler: just looking at your lp page: what is nUbuntu?
[19:19] <nhandler> sistpoty: It is a an Ubuntu derivitive that focuses on security tools. emgent could probably provide a lot more info than I could about that
[19:19] <sistpoty> ahh
[19:20] <DktrKranz> nhandler, we would manage several requests of package updates for GNOME, KDE, XFCE, and so on. Even if we have delegates, which DE do you usually use? Just to see if we have some non-KDE, non-GNOME guy here :)
[19:21] <nhandler> I am currently running an Ubuntu live cd. However, since becoming a MOTU, I have been getting involved with the Kubuntu team, and will probably install Kubuntu on my new laptop (once I get it)
[19:21] <sistpoty> nhandler: you do your ubuntu work from a live-cd? how does that work out?
[19:21] <ScottK-palm2> :-)
[19:23] <DktrKranz> nhandler, during last meeting, we decided to block almost every request of NEW packages. With your REVU coordinator hat on, could it be a problem?
[19:23] <nhandler> sistpoty: I've been using a live cd for a while now, since my laptop died. I have my old home folder backed up on an external hard drive, so I can copy over my settings. But a live cd is not fun
[19:23] <sistpoty> nhandler: ah, ok
[19:23] <DktrKranz> blackouts are evil :)
[19:23] <nhandler> There was talk about actually shutting down REVU to new packages after FF. This has not been decided on yet. However, as long as there is still a method to get important new packages into Ubuntu, I think this would be fine.
[19:24] <ScottK-palm2> nhandler: You've been around a lot less lately. Will you have time for this?
[19:25] <nhandler> If that question is regarding my time spent on the Kubuntu team, I would have to disagree. I have still been helping out with the release packaging/backports.
[19:26] <nhandler> Due to not knowing C++ and some of the other programming skills required, I haven't been able to help with some of the recent stuff that has been going on
[19:26] <nhandler> But yes, I think I will have enough time to devote to motu-release
[19:26] <sistpoty> nhandler: let's assume someone would come up with a FFe request for let's say ladr, can you describe how you'd try to assess this?
[19:26] <Scott-palm> I thought you were mostly here on weekends now, but I may be wrong.  If so, fine.
[19:26]  * Scott-palm needs to go.
[19:26] <nhandler> I'm here whenever I'm not in school
[19:27] <nhandler> When deciding when to accept something, the first thing I will look for is that the FFe contains all of the required information. Without this, it would be more difficult to make an educated decision. After that, I would analyze the changes to see if it is actually worth having them in the repositories at that point. Finally, I would do my best to use all of the information available to me in order to decide whether or not the upload sho
[19:28] <sistpoty> nhandler: let's say the FFe information is there, the changes don't look too intrusive... anything else you'd consider?
[19:29] <nhandler> sistpoty: I would look at what testing has been done. Does it build cleanly? Does it run fine? Any known regressions/bugs? Does it do only what it says it does?
[19:30] <sistpoty> nhandler: let's assume again it builds fine, and the reporter stated that prover9 works as expected... anything else to check in this case?
[19:32] <nhandler> Do the rdepends still work as expected?
[19:33] <sistpoty> nhandler: the rdepends (since from the same package only) also work. would you give your ack then?
[19:33] <nhandler> And you mentioned that the changes don't look too intrusive. Are the changes significant enough to bother applying at this point?
[19:34] <sistpoty> nhandler: the changes are about 4k big... would that answer your question?
[19:34] <sistpoty> kb
[19:35] <sistpoty> (i.e. size of the diff... let's just say a few pages in my vim *g*)
[19:36] <nhandler> Well, if the changes looked fine to me, the requester tested the package, I tested the package, there were no visible issues in the testing, rdepends worked fine, the patch did everything that it said it did and nothing more, and it built fine, then yes. I would ack it
[19:36] <sistpoty> nhandler: ok, seems fair enough...
[19:37] <sistpoty> nhandler: as a side remark, I don't intend to change ladr *g*... but I picked it on purpose, since it's building a shared library
[19:37] <sistpoty> nhandler: so you should always check for ABI/API breakages there (or ask another team member for input)
[19:38] <nhandler> Well, since this was hypathetical, I didn't actually pull it up. But I will be sure to ask about libraries (I don't have much experience with them)
[19:38] <sistpoty> nhandler: sure, that's why we're a team :)
[19:38] <iulian> OK, so in this case when you're unsure about something please don't hesitate to ask someone from the Release team.
[19:38]  * DktrKranz looks for sistpoty's library handling session at UDW
[19:38] <iulian> nhandler: On the other hand, you might want to join #ubuntu-release as well.
[19:39] <nhandler> iulian: I'll add it to my auto join list ;)
[19:39] <sistpoty> nhandler: got another question: you mentioned that you're not too proficient with c++... what programming language do you "speak"?
[19:39] <nhandler> sistpoty: The only language I would consider myself fluent in would be Perl
[19:40] <DktrKranz> last cycle, we sat there to help archive-admins to approve unapproved uploads, so a good IRC presence during "hot" days is welcome
[19:40] <nhandler> I can understand other languages, but I can't write them too well
[19:40] <sistpoty> nhandler: ah, thanks
[19:40] <iulian> nhandler: C is easy.
[19:41] <nhandler> iulian: C is on my long todo list of languages to learn
[19:41] <iulian> Excellent.
[19:42] <iulian> nhandler: If you'd like I can give you some great tutorials (learnt loads from it).
[19:42] <nhandler> Any more questions?
[19:42] <iulian> OK, do we have anything else on our -release TODO list?
[19:42] <nhandler> iulian: I'm actually learning Java (for school) right now, so I might hold off a little longer on C
[19:43] <sistpoty> iulian: I guess we should take a shot at the delegates list
[19:43] <sistpoty> http://paste.ubuntu.com/118916/
[19:43]  * iulian looks
[19:44] <nhandler> I also had 2 questions that I was not able to find answers to on the wiki
[19:44] <nhandler> Can a member of motu-release confirm their own FF exception request? I know for the backport team, they like to have a different member of the team approve it. Does the same go for the motu-release team?
[19:44] <persia> Ubuntu Mobile doesn't actuallly exist anymore: it was renamed to Ubuntu UMPC, and then dropped.  The Netbook Remix was adopted in it's place (which doesn't necessarily change the selection of delegate).
[19:44] <DktrKranz> gobuntu? did we have it latest cycle?
[19:45] <nhandler> I thought we got rid of it
[19:45] <DktrKranz> me too
[19:45] <sistpoty> persia: so mobile is netbook remix nowadays? is that s.th. different than MID?
[19:45] <sistpoty> DktrKranz: no
[19:45] <persia> Regarding Gobuntu: http://blog.canonical.com/?p=11
[19:45] <persia> sistpoty, Yes, and Yes.
[19:46] <sistpoty> thanks persia
[19:46] <sistpoty> we also didn't have edubuntu last FF
[19:47] <sistpoty> (and as I wrote, I'm unsure about it's necessary to have a delegation there)
[19:47] <persia> There might be ancillary packages, as with Ubuntu Desktop or Kubuntu
[19:48] <sistpoty> persia: do you know if _MMA_ is still active in regards to ubuntu studio?
[19:49] <jcastro> he's on a break
[19:49] <sistpoty> jcastro: ah, thanks... who'd be leader of ubuntu studio then atm?
[19:50] <persia> sistpoty, I'd suggest luisbg as a possible delegate.
[19:50] <jcastro> I think luis is
[19:50] <sistpoty> ah, sure, would make sense to me
[19:51] <sistpoty> ok, anything we should add to the list, or take from the list?
[19:53] <persia> The TB has mentioned possibly defining other sets of packages that would be grouped for upload, and managed by teams, but I think for next cycle, rather than this cycle.
[19:53] <DrKranz> (bad network!)
[19:53] <sistpoty> oh
[19:54] <sistpoty> persia: well, we've got mozilla team on the list... what other prominent teams are there that exist right now?
[19:54] <persia> sistpoty, I think none that are both operational and approved.
[19:55] <sistpoty> ok :)
[19:55] <sistpoty> thanks persia
[19:55] <sistpoty> DktrKranz: was just asking, if we should add to the list of delegates or remove from it...
[19:55] <sistpoty> nhandler, iulian: what do you think?
[19:56] <nhandler> sistpoty: It looks pretty good to me.
[19:56] <iulian> Here to, without Gobuntu.
[19:56] <iulian> s/to/too/
[19:56] <DktrKranz> I think teams are well represented
[19:56] <sistpoty> yep :)
[19:56] <sistpoty> well, and for ubuntustudio should I ask luisbg?
[19:57] <DktrKranz> +1
[19:57] <nhandler> Do Standing Feature Freeze exceptions need to be re-approved each cycle?
[19:57] <iulian> sistpoty: Yes, please do.
[19:57] <sistpoty> ok
[19:57] <sistpoty> nhandler: good question... /me takes a look what's actually there
[19:58] <nhandler> It still says "Feature Freeze exceptions for Hardy"
[19:58] <nhandler> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StandingFeatureFreeze
[19:58] <DktrKranz> I'm in favour of reset them, some are not current anymore
[19:59] <sistpoty> yes, /me also thinks that
[19:59] <nhandler> Very true DktrKranz. I also think they should need to be re-approved
[19:59] <iulian> Indeed, the transitions are done.
[19:59]  * iulian takes a look again.
[20:00] <sistpoty> hey _MMA_, I've just heard you're taking a break from ubuntu studio development? as we're looking for a delegate for FeatureFreeze and would be asking luisbg then, what do you think?
[20:00] <Jihui_Choi>  /join #ubuntu-locoteams
[20:00] <Jihui_Choi> oops
[20:01] <_MMA_> sistpoty: That's the general plan but I guess if I'm available I can so something. Can it be 2 people?
[20:01] <sistpoty> _MMA_: would be ok for me... nhandler, iulian, DktrKranz?
[20:01] <iulian> I'd say yes.
[20:02]  * DktrKranz is fine
[20:02] <nhandler> I have no issue with it. But how would we handle cases where the two delegates don't agree?
[20:02] <_MMA_> nhandler: Though there should be a plan for that, I know for sure it won't happen in this case.
[20:03] <DktrKranz> I think we should come to a collective agreement
[20:03] <sistpoty> I hope the delegates would escalate to motu-release then? *g*
[20:03] <iulian> Heh
[20:03] <nhandler> sistpoty: I think that would be appropriate
[20:03] <MK-1> #ubuntu-ko
[20:03] <sistpoty> and we'd talk to people until everyone agrees :)
[20:03] <_MMA_> sistpoty: In the end I should be the 2nd choice. If something needs done, *like now* and he isn't around I'm usually lurking.
[20:04] <sistpoty> _MMA_: excellent!
[20:04] <Jihui_Choi> where channel should i join for Loco team council meeting? here or #ubuntu-locoteams?
[20:04] <sistpoty> ok, any final words to the list of delegates? anyone not happy with a delegate in particular?
[20:05] <nhandler> I'm fine with it
[20:05] <boredandblogging> its time for the LoCo Council meeting
[20:05]  * iulian is fine as well.
[20:05] <iulian> Oh, I didn't even know there is another meeting after this one.
[20:05] <sistpoty> oh, then let's end the motu-release meeting... thanks everyone for coming :)
[20:06] <iulian> Thanks.
[20:06] <sistpoty> (and sorry for being over time)
[20:06] <DktrKranz> yay!
[20:07] <boredandblogging> juliux: ping
[20:07] <boredandblogging> JanC: ping
[20:07] <_MMA_> Hit me up if there's anything else.
[20:07] <MK-1> bundo: here
[20:08] <Jihui_Choi> Hi bundo
[20:08] <bundo> Hi everyone !
[20:09] <boredandblogging> we need one more person for LoCo Council quorum
[20:09] <Jihui_Choi> yes. humm how can we gather?? just wait?
[20:10] <MK-1> hi
[20:10] <boredandblogging> lets wait a few minutes
[20:14] <bundo> Hi boredandblogging  :  I am Korea Loco Team. My name is Kang Bundo
[20:14] <boredandblogging> bundo: hi, we are just waiting for quorum
[20:19] <Jihui_Choi> humm..
[20:20] <boredandblogging> lets wait a few more minutes
[20:20] <boredandblogging> if not, we'll need to reschedule
[20:20] <MK-1> hi,
[20:21] <MK-1> so how long do we have to wait?
[20:21] <Jihui_Choi> boredandblogging: I see.
[20:21] <nhasian> hello everyone
[20:21] <Jihui_Choi> hi nhasian :)
[20:22] <MK-1> boredandblogging: im here to help bundo and Jihui_Choi with translations
[20:22] <Jihui_Choi> MK-1: well.. I don't know. but we can wait until UTC 21:00 anyway..
[20:22] <nhasian> meeting starts in 40 mins yes?
[20:22] <Jihui_Choi> nhasian: loco council meeting doesn't start yet. we're waiting people.
[20:24] <MK-1> Jihui_Choi: can i talk to you next room..
[20:24] <Jihui_Choi> sure
[20:25] <Jihui_Choi> MK-1: your message is broken. I can't see.
[20:25] <MK-1> ok.. ill turn on diff. IRC
[20:27] <bundo> MK-1 You BaBo(Stupid)
[20:27] <MK-1> -_-)//
[20:29] <boredandblogging> ok, since we don't have quorum
[20:29] <boredandblogging> lets postpone the meeting
[20:29] <MK-1> until when?
[20:29] <Jihui_Choi> oh no..
[20:29] <Jihui_Choi> it's 5 am in here.
[20:29] <Jihui_Choi> I can't wake up again.
[20:29] <MK-1> ...
[20:30] <boredandblogging> hopefully we'll be able to reschedule for February
[20:30] <MK-1> boredandblogging // lets hope so..
[20:31] <boredandblogging> make sure to subscribe to the LoCoCouncilAgenda wiki page to be notified of the next meeting
[20:32] <Jihui_Choi> boredandblogging: well.. I can't help anything. Just wait next meeting.
[20:32] <Jihui_Choi> I see.
[20:32] <popey> sorry guys :(
[20:33] <bundo> boredandblogging  I see too
[20:33] <MK-1> thank you.
[20:33] <MK-1> so we'll here soon from you guys correct?
[20:33] <Jihui_Choi> I'm in my office now. and I can't come back to home.
[20:34] <MK-1> lolz
[20:34] <bundo> I SeeBal  B,.b
[20:34] <Jihui_Choi> And now 5:33am.. what shall I do? -_-;
[20:34] <MK-1> Jihui_Choi: too bad.. then work harder!!!
[21:00] <Technoviking> hello
[21:00] <nhasian> hiya
[21:00] <forumsmatthew> greetings
[21:00] <ubuntugeek> Hi
[21:00] <ubuntugeek> Lets get this party started
[21:01] <Joeb454> :| when did you all get here? lol
[21:01]  * Technoviking raises da roof
[21:01] <forumsmatthew> I've been here a bit
[21:01] <Rocket2DMn> party on
[21:01] <nhasian> i've been lurking for about an hour
[21:01] <ubuntugeek> The agenda for those who do not know https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[21:01] <EDavidBurg> oh hello
[21:01] <bapoumba> I'm here
[21:02] <ubuntugeek> First up the brainstorm moderator titles, is Nicolas Deschildre here?
[21:02] <ubuntugeek> In the past we've discussed this and voted it down. My feelings haven't changed much.
[21:02] <forumsmatthew> same here
[21:03] <Technoviking> same here
[21:03] <jacob> ubuntugeek: I don't think he is, pinged him about 30min ago in -brainstorm with no response. he hasn't said anything about it either, I don't think he knows it is still on the agenda
[21:03] <ubuntugeek> Ok
[21:03] <forumsmatthew> that's 60% -1, shall we move on
[21:03] <jdong> add another -1
[21:03] <ubuntugeek> Yes, lets move on
[21:04] <ubuntugeek> We are going to skip yours rocket2dmn and come back
[21:04] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[21:04] <ubuntugeek> Next up drubin
[21:04] <ubuntugeek> Clarity on forums policy for name changes regarding personal information
[21:04] <jdong> I'd love to follow those links BUT...
[21:04] <forumsmatthew> the basic deal is that if someone requests that we remove publicly accessible personal info, we do
[21:04] <drubin> ubuntugeek: can you give me 5 mins?
[21:04] <ubuntugeek> Sure
[21:04] <bapoumba> do not we already do that, forumsmatthew ?
[21:04] <ubuntugeek> We'll keep moving down the list
[21:05] <forumsmatthew> we'll come back so drubin can join us in 5
[21:05] <ubuntugeek> techstop, Name and description change to the desktop effects forum.
[21:05] <forumsmatthew> with the changes we are making right now, this will be easily accomplished by moving everything into General
[21:05] <ubuntugeek> I think as we grow and we should look at consolidating categories. I think this is a perfect example of one that can be moved into general
[21:05] <forumsmatthew> will==can
[21:06] <jacob> I don't think techstop actually knows that items is on the agenda, though i'm happy to speak for it. DE&C is crazy as it is
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> I added it for techstop
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> I did PM him that I added it though
[21:06] <ubuntugeek> Perhaps adding more prefixes to accommodate the merges.
[21:06] <drubin> ubuntugeek: on the prefixes can we get them for ppt ?
[21:06] <jdong> considering that desktop effects are now a globally standard feature and not some esoteric hack... I think merging it into General makes sense.
[21:07] <bapoumba> The rational when we created DE&C was when compiz was new
[21:07] <forumsmatthew> I took a long look earlier and most of the threads in DE don't have anything to do with desktop effects
[21:07] <jacob> ubuntugeek: i'm curious, what other merges are planned?
[21:07] <forumsmatthew> now days...
[21:07] <ubuntugeek> drubin: no, we decided awhile ago that ppt was not getting prefixes
[21:07] <drubin> ubuntugeek: sorry wasn't in on that meeting :(
[21:07] <Rocket2DMn> Compiz comes installaed (and enabled i think) by default now, that used to not be the case
[21:07] <bapoumba> Rocket2DMn, +1
[21:07] <ubuntugeek> So lets vote on moving desktop effects to general .. +1
[21:07] <jdong> Rocket2DMn: correct, same with KDE4 KWin effects.
[21:07] <jdong> +1
[21:07] <forumsmatthew> +1
[21:07] <jacob> I think "desktop effects" as a forum should be ditched, but there should probably be a place for theming, styles, etc
[21:08] <jdong> jacob: yes that would be a nice agenda item; Ubuntu needs more community involvement in artwork :)
[21:08] <ubuntugeek> OK we will make that change tonight then.
[21:08] <jdong> s/needs/could benefit from/
[21:08] <forumsmatthew> jacob, we used to have one for artwork, but it didn't get a lot of traffic
[21:08] <Technoviking> jacob: there is a art forum, we could make a [theme] prefix
[21:08] <ubuntugeek> nhasian, are you here?
[21:08] <nhasian> yes
[21:08] <forumsmatthew> is it still there? I don't remember...anyway, let's move on
[21:09] <jacob> forumsmatthew: it's kind of what DE&C is right now, though i'll wait until after these changes you're talking about
[21:09] <ubuntugeek> The Forum council still hasn't worked out exactly how we are going to approve new members. IN the meantime matthew is going to provide you with a URL to apply at one of the regional membership boards.
[21:09] <forumsmatthew> this is the url to use to begin the process https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards
[21:10]  * nhasian faints
[21:10] <forumsmatthew> you don't have to pick one that you live in, but rather one that has a meeting time that is convenient for you
[21:10] <ubuntugeek> We apologize.
[21:10] <nhasian> no worries
[21:10] <jacob> someone raised concern about the process of membership for the FC as a board. will the process be documented on the wiki along with all of the other boards?
[21:11] <ubuntugeek> Yes
[21:11] <bodhizazen> nhasian: We can help you on the BT channel
[21:11] <forumsmatthew> we will likely only process membership for staff at first
[21:11] <Rocket2DMn> Granted there are other priorities to take care of, when can we expect the FC to be ready to start with the membership process?
[21:11] <nhandler> And will an email be sent to one of the -announce mailing lists?
[21:11] <jdong> jacob: the FC is going to follow up with the CC on hammering out the specific process for membership
[21:11] <forumsmatthew> Rocket2DMn, when we have the info we need to do so
[21:12] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, just thought I'd ask
[21:12] <ubuntugeek> Ok let up on the agenda, Bill Day creation of the law or legal professionals forum.
[21:12] <ubuntugeek> Bill are you present?
[21:12] <williamsonday> Hi guys.
[21:12] <williamsonday> Yes, I am here.
[21:12] <williamsonday> Bear with me, I don't use IRC much.
[21:12] <forumsmatthew> no prob
[21:13] <bapoumba> williamsonday, me neither :)
[21:13] <williamsonday> I have discussed the proposal on the forums, but I would be happy to give a brief overview if you like.
[21:13] <Joeb454> oh hi bapoumba :)
[21:13] <forumsmatthew> I've read what you posted, is there anything you would like to add before we discuss it
[21:13] <forumsmatthew> yes, please give an overview
[21:13] <williamsonday> O.K.
[21:14] <williamsonday> Briefly, I think there are several reasons why a law forum is a good idea and ubuntu forums should host it.
[21:14] <williamsonday> First, legal professionals represent an important segment of the computer using population, but almost all legal specific programs are windows.
[21:14] <williamsonday> Ubuntu, as a user friendly desktop, could address  this.
[21:15] <williamsonday> Not only are lawyers in need of programs for specific kinds of data processing and formatting, but they also have a lot of influence over laws that affect free software.
[21:15] <williamsonday> It is not a great situation for most lawyers to be unfamiliar with ubuntu and Linux.
[21:16] <williamsonday> I hope that the Ubuntu community could take the initiative to help bring Linux to lawyers.
[21:16] <williamsonday> I would be happy to  try to address any questions.
[21:17] <ubuntugeek> Thanks Bill.
[21:17] <jacob> williamsonday: you do realize that 90% of the discussions in that proposed forum would be GPL v. BSD debates? :P
[21:17] <jdong> My concern is a catch-22 one: Is this going to be another section that sees little traffic that we'll have to approach as a merger in 3 months?
[21:17] <jdong> I think a good alternative is to set up a 3rd party project for this?
[21:17] <williamsonday> I hope not.  What I am aiming for is not substantive discussion of law but use of LInux as a legal tool.
[21:17] <ubuntugeek> jdong: agreed and we've already stopped creating 3rd party areas
[21:18] <jdong> oh oops
[21:18] <williamsonday> I would welcome any assistance or constructive suggestions re possible alternatives.
[21:18] <forumsmatthew> we used to have a medical forum for a similar purpose, and the amount of traffic was so small that we ended up merging it back into general
[21:18] <ubuntugeek> I think the idea is great, however these types of categories haven't worked out well in the past. We've recently been removing old and stale forums and I feel this might be better off as an independent forum.
[21:19] <forumsmatthew> it might be better to consider a standalone forum or site
[21:19] <forumsmatthew> it is a good idea that I think could be useful
[21:19] <jdong> I agree with forumsmatthew; I feel as of now although it's a great idea and I wish you the best of success, it's probably going to be yet-another-section of the forum that needs cleanup in the future.
[21:19] <ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: agreed, but I dont think that the UF is the place for this.
[21:20] <jdong> we've learned over time creating sections doesn't really work all that well
[21:20] <forumsmatthew> yeah, that's what I'm saying
[21:20] <williamsonday> My thought was simply that by locating it in the ubuntu forums,  there would already be a natural constituency of people interested in linux.
[21:20] <bodhizazen> Would there be any utility to a more general forums, say business / professional
[21:20] <forumsmatthew> most who are interested in this are also members of the Free Software Foundation
[21:20] <bodhizazen> rather then specific to professions (doctor, lawyer, accounting) ?
[21:20] <Technoviking> williamsonday: many of the thing you are wanting can be handle in our general section
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> http://www.fsf.org/
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> although, this looks like a good fit, too http://www.softwarefreedom.org/
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> again, I like the main idea
[21:22] <williamsonday> Technoviking: I understand, but it will be hard to direct lawyers to a general section if you want to get them interested in law specific use.
[21:22] <ubuntugeek> Let's go ahead and vote on this. -1 from me, while I think its a great idea these types of things haven't worked out well for us in the past. I think it would be better off as a standalone project.
[21:22] <forumsmatthew> -1
[21:22] <williamsonday> But I appreciate the URLs and will check them out.
[21:22] <forumsmatthew> with my best wishes
[21:22] <Technoviking> -1
[21:22] <jdong> -1 from me, too
[21:22] <jdong> though best of luck on your endeavor!
[21:22] <williamsonday> OK, thanks guys.  I appreciate your consideration.
[21:22] <ubuntugeek> I need to step out for a second and deal with the forums database
[21:22] <ubuntugeek> matthew can you take over the last 2 times
[21:22] <forumsmatthew> williamsonday, you are very welcome
[21:22] <forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, yep
[21:23] <jdong> now on to Snova's banning....
[21:23] <jdong> (joke!)
[21:23] <drubin> jdong: you joke....:)
[21:23] <forumsmatthew> let's go back to drubin and name changes
[21:23] <Snova> If I'd known, I'd have gotten here earlier.
[21:23] <drubin> forumsmatthew: It just seems like it goes against the faq
[21:24] <forumsmatthew> the main thing we (already) do and have as our policy is that we will not change names unless it is for a privacy related reason
[21:24] <forumsmatthew> there have been other rare exceptions, but very, very few
[21:24] <drubin> I don't know I just feel people know that the internet is indexed by google, and any information they put out there is their issue
[21:24] <forumsmatthew> agreed
[21:25] <forumsmatthew> yet, to make sure that our members feel as comfortable as possible, we will do this
[21:25] <jdong> drubin: it's surprisingly common, for some reason, for people to accidentally put their e-mail in the username field
[21:25] <bapoumba> drubin, when requested, we remove all private info and make the account non-accessible (admins do)
[21:25] <jdong> that's our #1 most common name change request.
[21:25] <forumsmatthew> bapoumba, thanks, I was about to mention that
[21:25] <drubin> forumsmatthew: I don't know if it was just that one week where like all those examples wanted their name changed/remove. I thought it would carry one. But it seems to have stoped so don't think it is that important any more
[21:25] <forumsmatthew> that was an odd week
[21:26] <drubin> jdong: I fully understand those type of requests. These were memebers that have a post count of like 300 and just get anoyed at the forums policy
[21:26] <forumsmatthew> do you feel clear enough for us to move on? (not trying to rush you)
[21:26] <bodhizazen> I think the current policy is fine and do not see a need for a change
[21:26] <EDavidBurg> It seems like there are lots of runs on the RC with similar threads about how you're all fascists
[21:26] <drubin> ye forumsmatthew
[21:26] <EDavidBurg> With certain themes :)
[21:26] <jdong> ok we good to go?
[21:26] <forumsmatthew> okay, let's move to another agenda item
[21:26] <drubin> Thanks for clearing it up
[21:26] <forumsmatthew> Rocket2DMn, and the expansion idea
[21:27] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, I think I have text around somehwere, gimme a moment to pastebin it
[21:27] <forumsmatthew> cool
[21:28] <bodhizazen> I have a *brief* question, not on the agenda if there is time
[21:28] <forumsmatthew> bodhizazen, while we wait for rocket, sure
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> OK, i think i deleted the text file, but i pulled a pastebin from my history - http://paste.ubuntu.com/95509/
[21:29] <Rocket2DMn> i think it changed a bit since then, but the idea is generally the same
[21:29] <forumsmatthew> bodhizazen, hang on, and we will get to your question
[21:29] <forumsmatthew> reading rocket's url
[21:30] <bodhizazen> Rocket2DMn: IMO you need to remove "hackintosh", use something more professional ;)
[21:30] <jdong> isn't "hackintosh" the technical term used by the community?
[21:30] <Joeb454> OS X86
[21:30] <Joeb454> or OSx86
[21:31] <jacob> or just add quotes around the phrase
[21:31] <bodhizazen> jdong: probably, but I think OSX or some such looks better
[21:31] <ubuntugeek> OK back
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> fyi, the forums are up. staff can see the original (prettier looking) version here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1025963
[21:31] <ubuntugeek> Forums are online
[21:31] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, well I was asked to put it on the agenda since the admins thought it would be better if it were more closely integrated rather than a standalaone thread
[21:31] <jdong> does the forum guidelines not cover EULA violations adequately?
[21:31] <jdong> I don't like listing out specifics in the policy
[21:32] <jdong> it leads to a lot of "well it doesn't exactly say X is not allowed" quibbles
[21:32] <ubuntugeek> jdong: agreed
[21:32] <Rocket2DMn> jdong, there i no specific mention of a "EULA" in the policy, and the origina lthread i wrote was designed to specifically name some of the common things we see
[21:32] <bodhizazen> +1 jdong
[21:33] <jdong> perhaps we just need to add a "respect software license agreements" sort of thing
[21:33] <jacob> perhaps a link from the policy to the thread to list some examples?
[21:33] <jdong> but that falls IMO under "illegal activities" by our interpertation
[21:33] <forumsmatthew> jdong, I agree. I think we cover this in the official document. Perhaps posting this somewhere as an unofficial explanation would be okay, but after thinking about it for 8 weeks or so, I don't think we need to add it in the official FCoC
[21:33] <ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: agreed
[21:33] <forumsmatthew> our rules are broad enough to cover this stuff already
[21:33] <Rocket2DMn> OK, there is more in the thread than EULA violations, too, in the later part of the thread
[21:34] <forumsmatthew> so this is more of an unofficial clarification
[21:34] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[21:34] <EDavidBurg> Well, gotta go. Nice meeting with you
[21:34] <jdong> yes I am fine with this being linked to as an unofficial clarification if quibbles come up
[21:35] <bodhizazen> can't link if it is in chit-chat
[21:35] <forumsmatthew> my feeling is that when we make lists, the grumpies take it as a way to define what is not covered and abuse the spirit of the rules
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> bodhizazen, hehe, yeah i posted it there for feedback first
[21:36] <jdong> forumsmatthew: +1
[21:36] <bodhizazen> Although detailed lists like this are very nice Rocket2DMn , and you spend a lot of time on them, they create problems
[21:36] <Rocket2DMn> So when I get around to posting it as a thread, where would you like it placed?
[21:36] <Technoviking> forumsmatthew: +1
[21:36] <ubuntugeek> I think the forums CoC is pretty clear and we have methods to deal with these types of situations. I think it's a great piece of work and alot of time was put into it. However, I am not comforatble linking this from the Coc. Our policy is pretty strong, so posting this or adding it to the official -1
[21:36] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i definitely see the point on lists
[21:37] <forumsmatthew> Rocket2DMn, I don't think we actually need to post it. If you want to, you can put it in the Cafe, but I think it will probably cause us more problems in the long run...
[21:37] <Rocket2DMn> Ok
[21:37] <ubuntugeek> Lets ago ahead and vote on this item, we all have a understanding of what it is.
[21:37] <Rocket2DMn> It doesn't need to be posted if you guys don't want it to be, the time put into it is not a problem either way
[21:38] <jdong> -1 on inclusion in the FCoC
[21:38] <forumsmatthew> nicely done, but after thinking about it, I'm -1 on posting it
[21:38] <Technoviking> -1
[21:38] <ubuntugeek> -1
[21:38] <forumsmatthew> Okay, is Lord Xeb here?
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, thanks for looking at it anyway :)
[21:38] <ubuntugeek> No problem :)
[21:39] <forumsmatthew> last call for LX
[21:39] <bodhizazen> o/ (again if time allows)
[21:39] <nhasian> i have a question too when your finished with all the agenda items
[21:39] <forumsmatthew> okay, whatcha got, bodhizazen
[21:39] <jdong> that's a shame; I really wanted to see him here.
[21:39] <bodhizazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=511315
[21:39] <ubuntugeek> :)
[21:40] <bodhizazen> is there a section in the Coc that covers malicious code ?
[21:40] <forumsmatthew> I would include that under such things as illegal activity or being polite
[21:40] <bodhizazen> It surfaces from time to time , but I could not find a specific policy
[21:41] <Rocket2DMn> I do like the idea of a short number about intentionally damaging computer systems
[21:41] <bapoumba> Along these lines, I could not find jdong's announcement the other day (with the forums search).
[21:41] <jdong> I agree, it falls under illegal activities in a LOt of jurisdictions
[21:41] <forumsmatthew> it certainly could be interpreted as not being kind, gentle, or using etiquette
[21:42] <jdong> and it is totally against "be respectful" in any interpetation
[21:42] <ubuntugeek> The question is we all know what category it falls under so do we really need to define it:?
[21:42] <bodhizazen> The grey area is when people wish to discuss these codes
[21:43] <bodhizazen> I tend to jail them and ask (In PM) they move the discussion elsewhere, which is when the request comes up for forums policy
[21:43] <forumsmatthew> I would lean toward allowing a discussion of code like this, provided clear warnings and disclaimers are made and it isn't being done maliciously
[21:43] <jdong> well I've expressed my opinion on discussions of these things before:
[21:43] <bodhizazen> So If I can just use ilegal activity / be polite, I am OK
[21:43] <jdong> I am fine with it if discussed in an educational manner without intention to abuse the code in any way.
[21:43] <ubuntugeek> jdong and matthew: agreed
[21:44] <jdong> it's the staff's discretion to draw the line
[21:44] <bodhizazen> I take it case by case
[21:44] <jdong> exactly
[21:44] <forumsmatthew> that's it
[21:44] <bodhizazen> thank you ;)
[21:44] <bodhizazen> and can we revive jdong 's announcement please ?
[21:44] <drubin> +1
[21:44] <jacob> bodhizazen: this one? http://ubuntuforums.org/announcement.php?a=54
[21:45] <bodhizazen> yes
[21:45] <bapoumba> it does not come up in searches
[21:45] <forumsmatthew> we're looking
[21:45] <drubin> "November 20th, 2007 until December 21st, 2008 "
[21:45] <bodhizazen> thank you ;)
[21:46] <forumsmatthew> it will be back up momentarily
[21:46] <ubuntugeek> It
[21:46] <ubuntugeek> its backup
[21:46] <ubuntugeek> :)
[21:46] <drubin> thanks
[21:46] <bapoumba> thanks ubuntugeek :)
[21:47] <forumsmatthew> nhasian, what did you have?
[21:47] <nhasian> I wanted to ask, do the forums have enough moderators?  or are you looking for more help in that area as well?
[21:47] <forumsmatthew> we are doing well at the moment
[21:47] <forumsmatthew> thanks
[21:47] <nhasian> i'm getting blocked at every turn :-P
[21:48] <Joeb454> /ignore nhasian >:)
[21:48] <ubuntugeek> We might be looking for new staff in the near future :)
[21:48] <nhasian> i'll keep my eyes open.  thanks
[21:48] <ubuntugeek> Does anyone else have anything else?
[21:49] <Technoviking> ubuntugeek: one thing
[21:49] <ubuntugeek> Sute
[21:49] <ubuntugeek> Sure
[21:49] <forumsmatthew> what's up
[21:49] <Technoviking> what should we do about the mailing list? The spam keeps a comming
[21:50] <drubin> Technoviking: don't put your email address as address@server.com on a public web page.
[21:50] <ubuntugeek> I think we need to change the email address if we can
[21:50] <forumsmatthew> agreed
[21:50] <Technoviking> drubin: someone signed the forums council meeting list to hundreds of spam list
[21:51] <drubin> sounds like a gumpy banned user
[21:51] <ubuntugeek> Techno: lets see if we can get someone to reply to the email you sent out earlier.
[21:51] <drubin> :(
[21:51] <Technoviking> ubuntugeek: ok, coolness
[21:51] <ubuntugeek> Yep
[21:51] <ubuntugeek> OK, anything else before we call it?
[21:52] <ubuntugeek>  -- end meeting
[21:52] <nhasian> thats a wrap
[21:52] <ubuntugeek> Thanks everyone for coming
[21:52] <forumsmatthew> ciao, baby
[21:52] <bapoumba> Bye everyone !
[21:52] <Rocket2DMn> Cool, thanks guys
[21:52] <bodhizazen> w00t :)
[21:52] <Joeb454> thanks al
[21:52] <Joeb454> all :)
[21:52] <Snova> Wow.
[21:52] <jacob> 52 minutes must be some sort of record
[21:52]  * jacob runs
[21:52] <Snova> This place sure empties out quickly...
[21:53] <ubuntugeek> :)
[21:54] <bodhizazen> ubuntugeek: thanks for all the hard work you put in on the forums, keep up the good work, and please don't burn out ;)
[21:55] <ubuntugeek> bodhi :)