[00:03] <MTecknology> There's a spelling error on help.lp.net
[00:03] <thumper> MTecknology: or take the tour from https://launchpad.net
[00:03] <thumper> MTecknology: which is?
[00:03] <MTecknology> suite of tools that help ;; s/help/helps/
[00:04] <thumper> no, the do help
[00:04] <thumper> they don't helps
[00:04] <MTecknology> oh
[00:04] <MTecknology> I was thinking of suite, not tools
[00:05] <thumper> :)
[00:26] <maxb> Mez: not exactly an API, but: wget -O- -q http://ppa.launchpad.net/maxb/ppa/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/Release.gpg  | gpg --list-packets | sed -nr 's/.* keyid //p'
[00:29] <maxb> then wget -O- -q "http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x$keyid&op=get"
[00:57] <spm> MTecknology: (re paper) you could probably also google around for any reports of mark's talks on launchpad. they tends to have his thoughts on what/where/why etc.
[02:29] <MTecknology> How do I drop a blueprint?
[02:31] <persia> MTecknology, You mean, indicate that you don't care anymore?
[02:33] <MTecknology> persia: no, I want them gone
[02:33] <MTecknology> we got two somehow that should be bug reports and are entirely irrelivant to us
[02:35] <persia> I don't think you can do that.  I think "Obsolete" and "Superseded" are the closed to "gone" tha blueprints get.
[02:36] <MTecknology> persia: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/loco-drupal/+spec/blue-screen-of-life
[02:36] <MTecknology> I'll be right back, we're going to run to the library quick
[02:36] <MTecknology> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/loco-drupal/+spec/ctrl-alt-backspace-timer
[02:44] <MTecknology> persia: is there anything you can do about those?
[02:45] <persia> MTecknology, Me?  No.  I'm just a user.
[02:45] <MTecknology> err - a rubber ducky can do *
[02:45] <persia> No idea.
[02:48] <MTecknology> Ursinha: hi
[02:49] <MTecknology> Ursinha: got a minute?
[02:49] <Ursinha> MTecknology, I'll pass the message tomorrow, because mrevell is sleeping now :)
[02:49] <Ursinha> in person, I mean, because already forwarded to him
[02:49] <Ursinha> your mail, that is
[02:49] <Ursinha> MTecknology, what can I do for you? :)
[02:49] <MTecknology> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/61282
[02:49] <MTecknology> and thanks
[02:50] <MTecknology> Ursinha: I imagine you guys don't have much downtime, so I can see where he might prefer to wait a week to do it
[02:51] <Ursinha> MTecknology, I'm pretty sure he'll return to you tomorrow with an answer :)
[02:51]  * Ursinha pokes spm and hides
[02:52] <spm> Ursinha: howdy, how may I assist today? :-)
[02:52] <Ursinha> spm, do you have little time to delete two blueprints?
[02:53] <Ursinha> spm, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/61282
[02:53] <spm> Ursinha: not atm, but will reassign to losa's so one of us will get it in the next day or so
[02:53] <Ursinha> spm, thanks :)
[02:53] <MTecknology> spm: Ursinha: thanks :)
[02:53] <spm> np
[02:54] <Ursinha> MTecknology, usually you just file a request on answers and the person on CHR day will take care the day next
[02:55] <MTecknology> Ursinha: sorry, I've been on a rampage lately and bugging people in here a lot. I'm slowing down so I'll settle back to waiting for people to get to it :)
[02:56] <Ursinha> MTecknology, just telling you how it works, so you can be sure it'll be accomplished anyway
[04:44] <poolie> spm, is it just me or are downloads from the librarian really slow today?
[04:44] <poolie> like eg http://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/1.12/1.12rc1/+download/bzr-1.12rc1-2.win32-py2.5.exe
[04:45] <spm> poolie: 4,443,533    683K/s   in 9.2s
[04:45] <spm> flat out as far as my adsl goes. ?
[04:45] <poolie> iow "just me"
[04:45] <poolie> :/
[04:46] <spm> poolie: is it possible your PC has been infected by a virus/trojan and turned you into a zombie? :-P
[04:47] <poolie> quite possible
[04:47] <spm> poolie: you're a 'node customer: try downloading a test file from their mirror: wget http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/test/10meg.test
[04:48] <spm> that should eliminate any pacific/atlantic crossing issues. and focus on the syd<->adl link(s)
[04:48] <poolie> yes i was just trying an iso from them
[04:48] <poolie> about 250kB/s
[04:48] <spm> :-(
[04:48] <poolie> so kinda slow but not like 27kB
[04:48] <spm> are you adsl1 or 2+?
[04:48] <poolie> 2+
[04:49] <spm> hmmm
[04:49] <spm> I know telstra was killing those on RIM's to a max of 3mb/s - but you can't get 2+ via a RIM. so that ain't it....
[04:50] <spm> poolie: mtr? is that showing slower than usual links for you?
[04:51] <poolie> it looks reasonable
[04:52] <poolie> about 16ms to their router, 170ms to San Jose, and 350ms to London
[04:52] <poolie> that's what's strange
[04:52] <spm> very
[04:53] <poolie> should probably reset my router :/
[04:53] <spm> I hate to suggest that. but it might help....
[04:53] <spm> just sounds too much alt-clt-del'ish. :-(
[04:54] <spm> failing that, try snarfing a download via tcpdump/wireshark. have a squiz in tcptrace/xplot and see if you're getting full tcp windows or something?
[05:16] <spm> poolie: any joy?
[05:16] <poolie> no
[05:16] <poolie> i'm going to restart my pc
[05:16] <spm> hmmmm
[05:16] <poolie> about 50% because it might help and 50% because their support desk will ask me to
[05:18] <spm> actually - you haven't go tthat magic tcp slowdown stuff enabled have you? that you use for bzr testing? Going for the long shot here...
[05:18] <poolie> hee hee
[05:18] <poolie> pretty sure not
[05:18] <spm> cool :-) thought I'd ask the obvious, just in case :-D
[05:19] <poolie> why yes, the gun _was_ pointing at my foot
[05:19] <poolie> actually no.
[05:29] <poolie> spm, no good :/
[05:29] <poolie> also, not your problem :)
[05:30] <spm> heh
[05:31] <spm> poolie: may be relevant: "16:28:41] <-> great, optus cable break again" - near coff's apparently
[05:32] <poolie> i did check their status site and i don't see anything very relevant
[05:32] <poolie> maybe it's Stephen Conroy's fault
[05:32] <spm> everything else digital is
[07:39] <Mez> maxb: might be able to play with that
[07:55] <keithcu> I have a basic bazaar question. Can I ask it here?
[08:03] <thumper> keithcu: sure, or you can ask in #bzr
[09:26] <kallepersson> He
[09:26] <kallepersson> *Hey. I'm failing to check out a branch from launchpad
[09:26] <kallepersson> Is it down or something?
[09:27] <svenx> i've had problems for several days.. but thought it was just the project that was failing (squid3)
[09:27] <kallepersson> trying to run bzr branch lp:do but nothing happens
[09:28] <kallepersson> very annoying.
[09:33] <beuno> kallepersson, there's ni problem with codehosting
[09:33] <beuno> what's the error?
[09:35] <kallepersson> beuno: there is no error. run bzr branch lp:do just never finishes.
[09:35] <kallepersson> and it has worked before
[09:35] <kallepersson> beuno: does it work for you?
[09:35] <beuno> kallepersson, try:   bzr branch lp:do -Dhpss
[09:35] <beuno> and look in:  ~/.bzr.log
[09:35] <beuno> it will tell you exactly what it's doing
[09:35] <kallepersson> okay, thx.
[09:36] <beuno> kallepersson, pastebin the relevant bits of the file, and I can try and help
[09:37] <beuno> what version of bzr are you running?
[09:37] <kallepersson> 1.10
[09:38] <beuno> kallepersson, do you have a shared repository?
[09:38] <kallepersson> huh? I'm only trying to check out a branch
[09:38] <kallepersson> no, I don't
[09:38] <beuno> ok, good, less things to think about  :)
[09:39] <beuno> what is .bzr.log saying?
[09:39] <kallepersson> at the moment it's doing a lot of
[09:39] <kallepersson> 102.667  RemoteSSHTransport.readv 3 offsets => 1 coalesced => 1 requests (1)
[09:39] <kallepersson> 102.668  hpss call w/readv: 'readv', '/~do-core/do/trunk/.bzr/repository/packs/0eab7911ca7b40aef205f456ea068c04.pack'
[09:39] <kallepersson> and by lots I mean that's what it has been doing since i ran the command
[09:39] <beuno> so it's downloading
[09:39] <kallepersson> but it's never been this slow
[09:40] <beuno> it branched in 32 seconds here
[09:40] <beuno> 46 seconds actually  :)
[09:40] <kallepersson> So it works for you. Good
[09:40] <kallepersson> still not finished for me, 5+ minutes now
[09:41] <beuno> yeah, maybe your ISP is just misbehaving?
[09:41] <kallepersson> perhaps
[09:41] <kallepersson> but launchpad.net is working
[09:41] <kallepersson> ah, now it shows some status at least
[09:41] <kallepersson> Copying Revision texts 1/5
[09:42] <kallepersson> Extremely slow, but as long as it moves I'm fine
[09:42] <bigjools> sounds like you're lacking a local repo
[09:42] <kallepersson> Thanks for your help
[09:42] <kallepersson> a local repo of the thing I'm checking out? yeah, I am
[09:42] <kallepersson> Would that speed things up?
[09:42] <bigjools> oh *yes* :)
[09:42] <kallepersson> Good good
[09:42] <bigjools> bzr --init-repo
[09:43] <bigjools> well, see the help first, there's options
[09:44] <bigjools> erm bzr init-repo --1.6 should be enough
[09:44] <bigjools> then it will use stacking, which makes it very quick
[09:45] <kallepersson>  thx
[09:45] <bigjools> np, let us know how you get on
[09:45] <kallepersson> still awfully slow but I guess it will be done sooner or later :)
[09:47] <beuno> kallepersson, do a "bzr info -v" for me in the dir you're branching in
[09:47] <beuno> (as in, in the dir you're runing bzr branch...)
[09:48] <kallepersson> Location:
[09:48] <kallepersson>   shared repository: .
[09:48] <kallepersson> Format:
[09:48] <kallepersson>        control: Meta directory format 1
[09:48] <kallepersson>     repository: Packs 5 (adds stacking support, requires bzr 1.6)
[09:48] <kallepersson> Create working tree for new branches inside the repository.
[09:48] <kallepersson> Repository:
[09:48] <kallepersson>          0 revisions
[09:48] <kallepersson> Ow, sorry for pasting so many lines.
[09:56] <beuno> kallepersson, si you are using a shared repo  :)
[09:56] <beuno> s/si/so
[09:56] <kallepersson> yes, I added that since bigjools suggesed that
[09:56] <beuno> ah
[09:57] <kallepersson> anyway, gonna try later
[09:57] <kallepersson> thx for help
[09:58] <beuno> :)
[10:06] <CBro2007> guys I was wondering how I get a SSH key pair on my Mac?
[10:06] <CBro2007> are there instructions on how to do this for Mac OSX?
[10:09] <beuno> CBro2007, same instructions as for Linux I think
[10:09] <beuno> verterok may know
[10:09] <CBro2007> ok
[10:48] <rockstar> CBro2007, in the terminal, it's the exact same method as Linux.
[11:58] <Laibsch> Can some of the devs please enlighten me as to the motivation for this annoying change to check for the file name of a changes file in an upload to a PPA? -> bug 315643
[11:58] <Laibsch> and question 51583
[12:05] <cprov> Laibsch: well, the motivation is correctness, isn't it?
[12:05] <cprov> Laibsch: is there any use case for uploading filenames in other formats ?
[12:09] <cprov> Laibsch: 'reusing bash history commands' ? I don't think it's legitimate.
[12:15] <Laibsch> Why not?
[12:15] <Laibsch> Very legitimate use case
[12:16] <Laibsch> And what is incorrect in tmp.changes?
[12:16] <Laibsch> It's about the content that I sign
[12:16] <Laibsch> not the filename
[12:17] <Laibsch> Where exactly is that correctness defined?  RFC?  Debian policy?
[12:17] <Laibsch> There is no such thing
[12:17] <Laibsch> quite simply put
[12:19] <cprov> Laibsch: I'm sorry, but your are wrong. Who would benefit of downloading 10 tmp.changes files ?
[12:20] <Laibsch> Who downloads the .changes files?
[12:20] <Laibsch> I download dsc files
[12:20] <Laibsch> Or .deb files
[12:20] <Laibsch> orig.tar.gz files
[12:21] <Laibsch> diff.gz files
[12:21] <Laibsch> .changes?
[12:21] <Laibsch> never
[12:22] <Laibsch> you say "you are wrong", "bash history is not a legitimate use case", I still wait for *real* arguments from your side
[12:22]  * Laibsch wouldn't even know where the .changes files are stored
[12:22]  * Laibsch goes to look
[12:23] <Laibsch> found it, yet never used it
[12:23] <cprov> Laibsch: that's you, you are not the only LP user.
[12:24] <Laibsch> Well, I never implied this
[12:24] <cprov> Laibsch: note that you have to convince us that meaningful changesfile names are *not* beneficial
[12:24] <Laibsch> You demand a use case from me
[12:24] <Laibsch> I demand a use case from you
[12:25] <cprov> Laibsch: right, understood
[12:25] <Laibsch> That is what arguing (and finding the best solution) is about
[12:25] <Laibsch> wait a minute, you say you won't change unless I can prove that meaningful .changes filenames are detrimental?
[12:26] <Laibsch> Interesting trick
[12:26] <cprov> Laibsch: ehe, it's not tricky, it's correct
[12:26] <Laibsch> BTW, who corrected the filenames for the situations where I used tmp.changes?
[12:26] <Laibsch> All the filenames in my PPA seem to be correct
[12:27] <cprov> Laibsch: you only change if what you have is broken or if what is purposed is better.
[12:27] <Laibsch> Yet, I am sure I uploaded quite a few tmp.changes
[12:27] <Laibsch> well, you made the change from accepting tmp.changes to silently rejecting (which is still unfixed)
[12:27] <cprov> Laibsch: maybe you don't, but I can look for the upload logs
[12:28] <Laibsch> I am demanding why that is necessary and you turn around and say that I need to convince you that you won't change unless I can prove that meaningful .changes filenames are detrimental.  that is a trick in arguing
[12:28] <Laibsch> demanding to know
[12:28] <Laibsch> I'm talking about the first change
[12:28] <Laibsch> You switch to talk about the second change
[12:29] <Laibsch> -> rhetorical trick
[12:29] <Laibsch> cprov: IYO, how should the "upload from other distributions" work in a meaningful way?
[12:29] <cprov> Laibsch: because that's the only thing that matters ;) how the system is and what you are suggesting to change.
[12:29]  * Laibsch can only think this is to save the uploader some work
[12:30] <Laibsch> cprov: I'm still waiting for your ex-post reason to change and why that was so necessary to break a valid use case
[12:30] <Laibsch> "correctness" is not defined anywhere
[12:30] <cprov> Laibsch: okay, and I said that's not a sufficient argument for forcing users to download meaningless filenames from the UI.
[12:31] <Laibsch> And I have not yet heard anything else
[12:31] <maxb> cprov: Are changes downloadable?
[12:31] <Laibsch> see, maxb did not know, either
[12:31] <maxb> I thought they specifically needed to not be downloadable
[12:31] <Laibsch> gets better all the time
[12:31] <Laibsch> https://launchpad.net/%7Er0lf/+archive/ppa/+files/anki_0.9.7.8-1rolf1_source.changes
[12:31] <Laibsch> just an example
[12:32] <maxb> because if you can obtain someone's signed .changes, you can possibly forge an upload to somewhere else
[12:32] <cprov> maxb: signatures are striped in upload time
[12:32] <maxb> Laibsch: Whilst I sympathize to some extent with your point of view, I think you're being excessively confrontational to the point of damaging your own argument
[12:32] <Laibsch> Understood
[12:33] <Laibsch> I'm trying to really argue
[12:33] <Laibsch> not be confrontational
[12:33] <Laibsch> But I'm really mad about this change
[12:33] <Laibsch> and IRC does not convey so many things
[12:33] <Laibsch> Just text
[12:33] <Laibsch> And I dont feel I can type fast enough ;-)
[12:33] <bigjools> seems to me like you are ;)
[12:34] <cprov> Laibsch: but we can always 'try harder', right ? :)
[12:34] <Laibsch> Like everything technical, one is never fast enough ;-)
[12:34] <james_w> Laibsch: what command do you have in your bash history to repeat?
[12:35] <Laibsch> alright, if you give me some way to extract the information needed without changing the command line every time, I'm happy (you should still fix the silent ignore, soon, cost me quite a few times of "wth?")
[12:35]  * Laibsch looks at dpkg-parsechangelog for help
[12:35] <maxb> So, I think its fair to say that the root problem is that all the standard tools adhere to a strict format, but it's not written down in policy, so it's left open for interpretation whether it *should* be strictly checked?
[12:36] <cprov> maxb: on your point about about hiding changesfiles. It would make debug of extra tags a nightmare.
[12:36] <maxb> extra tags?
[12:36] <Laibsch> james_w: I'm trying to document best practice of "upload from other distro" in https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/51583
[12:36] <cprov> maxb: Launchpad-Closes, for instance
[12:36] <maxb> ah
[12:36] <james_w> Laibsch: do you often dput from outside the unpacked source package you are uploading?
[12:37] <cprov> maxb: I'm not too keen about it, just saying it would be hard if the files were not visible to users.
[12:37] <james_w> Laibsch: read "man dput"
[12:37] <maxb> No, I agree, making signature-stripped changes visible is the best option
[12:37] <Laibsch> maxb: what tool outside of LP is checking for .changes filenames?
[12:38] <james_w> Laibsch: oh, no, it's not in the man page, sorry
[12:38] <maxb> Laibsch: What tool outside your shell fragment is generating non-standard ,changes filenames?
[12:38] <maxb> :-)
[12:38] <Laibsch> maxb: tmp.changes
[12:38] <cprov> Laibsch: they don't check, but they do generate standard filenames.
[12:39] <Laibsch> cprov: Tell me the command to generate a .changes file with appropriate filename and we're all done
[12:39] <wgrant> debuild
[12:39] <Laibsch> I mean , that is my problem
[12:39] <cprov> Laibsch: debuild
[12:39] <Laibsch> doesn't help
[12:39] <maxb> I think the real question that needs solving is - how did the person who wrote the feature described here: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Using%20packages%20from%20other%20distributions anticipate you getting the .changes?
[12:39] <Laibsch> only 99%
[12:40] <james_w> Laibsch: I always use debuild to do exactly this
[12:40] <Laibsch> james_w: I did, too
[12:40] <Laibsch> until this one day when I filed an invalid bug
[12:40] <maxb> Laibsch: Didn't I write you a mkchanges script last time we were discussing this?
[12:40] <Laibsch> I'll get you the number in a minute
[12:40] <Laibsch> suspense
[12:40] <Laibsch> maxb: Not sure, I raised the point numerous times, it was never solved
[12:40] <Laibsch> IIRC
[12:41] <james_w> Laibsch: also, changestool from reprepro might interest you
[12:41] <Laibsch> bug 276391
[12:41] <maxb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/119192/
[12:41] <Laibsch> that is the case where debuild will not work
[12:42] <maxb> cprov: Do you happen to know how the "forced suite upload" feature of PPAs is supposed to be used?
[12:43] <cprov> maxb: over pristine changesfiles from debian, for instance
[12:43] <maxb> Yes... but how do you obtain those?
[12:43] <cprov> maxb: requires re-signing
[12:44] <maxb> I don't think Debian publishes signature-stripped changesfiles like LP does
[12:44] <cprov> maxb: mostly target for people who uploaded stuff for debian
[12:44] <maxb> right, so it's really for people uploading directly to debian, only
[12:44] <cprov> maxb: so they don't necessarily have to create a new debian/changelog entry for upload the same debian source to their PPA
[12:45] <Laibsch> james_w: I'm not sure what you are getting at wrt changestool
[12:45] <james_w> Laibsch: given a source package it can generate you a changes file I believe
[12:45] <james_w> without unpacking it at all perhaps
[12:45]  * Laibsch studies manpage diligently
[12:45] <maxb> changestools creates a very skeletal changes file, and won't pick the right filename for it automatically
[12:47] <Laibsch> james_w: yes, could be.
[12:47] <Laibsch> oh, seems like maxb tested, but came out negative
[12:47] <Laibsch> I was going along the line of "manipulte existing .changes" file
[12:48] <Laibsch> but that brings us back to the problem you already raised of "where to get Debian changes files"
 http://paste.ubuntu.com/119192/
[12:48] <maxb> script. prewritten. works.
[12:48] <maxb> :-)
[12:49] <Laibsch> Further, while this will mostly be about recompiling Debian packages, there will be other cases
[12:49]  * Laibsch gone multitasking, overloaded
[12:49] <Laibsch> I remember that script
[12:49] <Laibsch> rememberred, even
[15:24] <afflux> hi there. I'm the owner of a branch of a project and so I registered a team for the separated PPA and code branch. Now I'd like to have a mailinglist for my users, so that a.) non-team members can send mail to it (moderated), b.) anyone can subscribe to the list. Is that currently possible with LPs mailinglists?
[15:25] <andrea-bs> afflux: yes, if with "anyone can subscribe" you mean "any launchpad user can subscribe"
[15:26] <afflux> andrea-bs: do the subscribers have to be in the team then?
[15:26] <andrea-bs> afflux: currently yes
[15:27] <afflux> andrea-bs: then that's not what I want. It would mean that my users would have r/w access on the PPA and the code branch.
[15:27] <andrea-bs> afflux: you can create a separate team for the users
[15:27] <afflux> or should I rather create a -dev and a -users team for a one-developer and at most 20 users?
[15:29] <andrea-bs> afflux: at the moment you can only create a -users team or wait for bug #194126 to be fixed
[15:30] <afflux> if that's okay with the LP guys, I'll do that ;)
[15:30] <afflux> thanks.
[18:19] <mizipzor_> i want to branch a project, take the source and continue working in a completely new direction... is it that what launchpads branch tool is created to do? or is it better to just create a new project and commit every source file again as an initial commit?
[19:03] <MTecknology> joey: ping
[19:03] <MTecknology> bac: you bac from lunch?
[19:05] <MTecknology> Where are al the awesome people in the world? I feel like I've been put on a national mental ignore :(
[19:08] <MTecknology> mizipzor_: did you get an answer?
[19:08] <bac> hi MTecknology
[19:08] <MTecknology> bac: how's it going?
[19:08] <bac> good,thanks
[19:08] <MTecknology> bac: Do you know if joey or mrevell are around at all?
[19:09] <joey> I'm here...sorry on phone concentrating.
[19:09] <MTecknology> ok
[19:09] <MTecknology> joey: just pong me when you get a chance?
[19:10] <MTecknology> mrevell seems to have disappeared from the world entirely :P
[19:10] <bac> MTecknology: it's pretty late in the UK about now so i suspect matthew is gone until tomorrow
[19:10] <MTecknology> mizipzor_: That's a good use of the LP tools, Just create a new branch under the same project.
[19:10] <bac> MTecknology: was there something i can help you with?
[19:11] <MTecknology> mizipzor_: you can call the initial merge w/e you want, I'd call it just <- that though
[19:11] <MTecknology> bac: sorry, I just saw your nick change and wanted to say hi. It's joey and mrevell that I need to annoy
[19:17] <postalchris> Why do I get "same version already has published binaries in the destination archive" when I try to copy and re-build a package from Intrepid to Jaunty? There is no package with the same version for Jaunty in my PPA.
[19:17] <bac> MTecknology: ah, ok.  i'm sure joey will be with you when he gets a spare moment.
[19:18] <MTecknology> All the busy you people take on makes me want to apply for a job when I get out of college
[19:40] <joey> abentley, see postalchris Q ^^
[19:40] <joey> MTecknology, if you want to type in here or PM that's fine. I'm on back to back calls until 5:30pm EST
[19:41] <MTecknology> joey: I just never got that email
[19:43] <joey> MTecknology, ok. I did speak with him via email earlier.  Maybe if you send a follow-up to him he'll reply back.  Otherwise I can ask him directly to email you.
[19:43] <MTecknology> joey: is he right around you?
[19:43] <joey> MTecknology, no he's in the UK
[19:43] <joey> MTecknology, I'm in Colorado :-D
[19:44] <MTecknology> ok, i can ping him
[19:46] <MTecknology> joey: what about those suggestions you had for me for project management?
[19:46] <joey> MTecknology, you can ask him about it as well. I told him that I told you that I was talking with hIm.
[19:46] <MTecknology> ok
[19:46] <MTecknology> thanks
[19:53] <MTecknology> Is mrevell still alive?
[19:58] <abentley> MTecknology: He is on UTC, I believe.  It's 7:58 pm for him.
[19:59] <MTecknology> I tried getting him when it was 15:00 his time
[20:00] <abentley> postalchris: Sorry, I don't know much about PPAs, but I'll try to get someone who does.
[20:03] <abentley> postalchris: I don't think anyone's available right now.  Can you ask a Question on launchpad?
[20:05] <postalchris> abentley, sure.
[20:06] <postalchris> abentley: what's the right project/product to ask the Question in?
[20:06] <abentley> postalchris: Launchpad
[20:06] <abentley> Or Soyuz
[20:10] <postalchris> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/50883 implies this is a known issue
[20:13] <joey> MTecknology, he's here...
[20:13] <joey> MTecknology, he just is in the UK.
[20:15] <wgrant> postalchris: The archive contains more than one distroseries.
[20:15] <MTecknology> joey: I've been trying to contact him in channel, skype, and email - never any answer :P
[20:15] <wgrant> The message doesn't say anything about Jaunty.
[20:15] <MTecknology> I suppose he'll get to me when he wants to
[20:15] <MTecknology> bbiab
[20:16] <postalchris> wgrant: I don't think I understand
[20:16] <wgrant> postalchris: Both source and binary versions must be unique within an archive.
[20:16] <wgrant> Your PPA is an archive.
[20:17] <wgrant> If you copy only the source from one series to another, it would have to generate another set of binaries with the same version number. That can't work.
[20:17] <postalchris> Twiddling the version number and re-uploading (as suggested in 50883, above) seems to work...
[20:17] <postalchris> wgrant: So launchpad can't copy-and-rebuild within the same PPA?
[20:17] <wgrant> postalchris: It's nothing to do with Launchpad; it's how Debian archives work.
[20:18] <joey> MTecknology, you can catch him on here early in your morning.
[20:18] <wgrant> I generally upload to Hardy and then copy with binaries to Intrepid and Jaunty.
[20:18] <wgrant> But some things need recompiling, in which case I'll upload a ~8.04, ~8.10, ~9.04, etc.
[20:18] <postalchris> wgrant: It has to do with Launchpad insofar as Launchpad is giving me a perplexing error message after letting me try to do something it can't do.
[20:19] <wgrant> postalchris: It has to let you try, because copying without binaries is a fine thing to do when copying between archives.
[20:20] <postalchris> wgrant: I disagree. The selection for "rebuild" could be grayed-out when "This PPA" is selected.
[20:20] <wgrant> Perhaps some JS could be used.
[20:20] <wgrant> But what is confusing about the error message?
[20:23]  * wgrant disappears.
[20:23] <MTeck-mobile> joey, about what time?
[20:23] <postalchris> wgrant: your average PPA user is not necessarily a Debian sysadmin. None of the other 140 people in the room could answer the question before you showed up!
[20:24] <MTeck-mobile> assmuing they read it
[20:26] <Laibsch> Not sure about what is being discussed here
[20:26] <Laibsch> Not being able to copy and recompile in the same PPA between series A and B?
[20:27] <Laibsch> In that case, I ran into that issue once and could not quite figure out why LP would not let me do it.
[20:27] <Laibsch> Since I was copying from hardy to intrepid IIRC, I figured I wouldn't see any lib linking issues and just copied with binaries
[20:27] <Laibsch> I was a bit uneasy about it, though
[20:27] <Laibsch> My 2¢
[20:28] <Laibsch> postalchris: Was that what you were talking about?
[20:37] <postalchris> Laibsch: That's exactly the issue. I've filed a bug against this behavior: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/330711
[20:38] <Laibsch> I agree this can be difficult to comprehend
[20:38] <Laibsch> although it is a minor issue, I think
[20:40] <postalchris> Laibsch: Minor and really, easily fixable
[20:43] <wgrant> Laibsch: It explicitly asks you whether you want to copy the binaries.
[20:43]  * wgrant is gone again
[20:43] <joey> MTecknology, he's off for dinner around 9:30am MST
[20:43] <Laibsch> yes, wgrant?
[20:43] <Laibsch> I did not want to copy them
[20:43] <Laibsch> so I declined
[20:45] <MTecknology> joey: what is MST?
[20:46] <joey> MTecknology, mountain time
[20:46] <MTecknology> -7?
[20:46] <joey> MTecknology, or 11:30 eastern if that fits better for you
[20:46] <MTecknology> MST is -7?
[20:46] <MTecknology> yup
[20:47] <MTecknology> I'm CST
[20:47] <MTecknology> -6
[21:09] <jmillikin> Is there a way to push a branch for an existing project, without using that project's stacked branch? I would like to push a branch for Banshee, but since mine is created using bzr-svn it doesn't stack with the existing trunk.
[21:10] <beuno> jmillikin, if you use --overwrite
[21:10] <beuno> i won't stack
[21:11] <beuno> or it
[21:12] <jmillikin> Still gives me the error, and states "Using default stacking branch /~vcs-imports/banshee/main"
[21:12] <beuno> don't believe it
[21:12] <beuno> what error is that?
[21:13] <jmillikin> bzr: ERROR: RemoteRepository(...) is not compatible with KnitPackRepository(...) different rich-root support
[21:14] <beuno> hrm
[21:14]  * beuno calls in jml
[21:14] <jml> hi
[21:15] <beuno> jml, hi. This gentlemen here has an interesting problem for you
[21:15] <jmillikin> Full error output at http://pastebin.ca/1340445
[21:15] <jml> yeah, I see.
[21:15] <jml> Has Bazaar still not grown an option for "don't stack"?
[21:15] <jmillikin> If so, I can't find it.
[21:15] <jmillikin> I am using version 1.12, from the Ubuntu PPA
[21:16] <jml> poolie: ^^
[21:16] <jml> jmillikin: I'm just trying to figure out a workaround
[21:17] <jml> jmillikin: ok. let's try this.
[21:18] <jml> jmillikin: bzr init lp:~jmillikin/banshee/trunk; bzr push !$
[21:20] <jmillikin> The init seemed to work, but push printed the same error.
[21:21] <jml> jmillikin: ok.
[21:21]  * jml pokes
[21:21] <jmillikin> Ah! If I push with --stacked-on to the same repository, it says "Ignoring request for a stacked branch as repository already exists at the destination location.", but works anyway
[21:22] <jml> jmillikin: ooh, clever.
[21:22] <jmillikin> At least, it's preceded to copying content texts now
[21:22] <jml> jmillikin: that sounds like it's working
[21:22] <jml> jmillikin: if pain persists, ping me.
[21:23] <jmillikin> Will do, thanks.
[21:24] <poolie> jml, no there is no option at present
[21:24] <poolie> i didn't realize that launchpad's suggestion of stacking was so strong
[21:24] <poolie> really we need --no-stacked and a reconfigure option
[21:25] <jml> poolie: no-stacked would definitely be a good start.
[21:28] <jmillikin> Alternatively, when checking for a stacked branch, perhaps (repo-format, first-revid) could be sent, for finding an appropriate source? I assume there's some sort of logic in Launchpad itself for determining whether a trunk repo is usable.
[21:28] <poolie> that's a good idea too
[21:28] <poolie> it should probably just not stack rather than giving an error
[21:35] <AnMaster> hello
[21:35] <AnMaster> why doesn't the translation feature allow me to license under same license as the project?
[21:35] <AnMaster> I even suspect you can't legally license translations for a GPL software as BSD
[21:36] <AnMaster> has anyone investigated this?
[21:36] <henninge> AnMaster: Yes we have ;)
[21:36] <henninge> AnMaster: BSD is fully GPL compatible.
[21:36] <AnMaster> henninge, so if a project declare it's translations to be GPL, how can you legally convert it to BSD
[21:36] <AnMaster> sure BSD -> GPL is ok
[21:36] <AnMaster> but GPL -> BSD is not
[21:37] <henninge> you're right there.
[21:37] <henninge> but that is not what is happening
[21:37] <AnMaster> henninge, what about already translated strings then?
[21:37] <AnMaster> when the project is added to launchpad
[21:37] <henninge> they keep their license
[21:37] <henninge> the BSD is only for translaitons done in launchpad.
[21:37] <AnMaster> henninge, and what if you want to keep same license as the project?
[21:37] <AnMaster> There is no way I'm going to translate with a different license
[21:37] <AnMaster> than that of the project
[21:38] <henninge> Well, that is where the BSD compatiblity comes in.
[21:38] <AnMaster> henninge, also since the translation is a derivative work of the English, GPL licensed text, making the translation under BSD would be a GPL violation
[21:38] <AnMaster> if you disagree, please explain your reasoning
[21:38] <AnMaster> :)
[21:39] <henninge> Translations done in launchpad as such are under BSD but you can bundle them with your project under a different license.
[21:39] <AnMaster> henninge, "henninge, also since the translation is a derivative work of the English, GPL licensed text, making the translation under BSD would be a GPL violation" <-- now what about that...
[21:39] <henninge> ASIK they are not deemed derivative of the english text
[21:39] <henninge> AFAIK
[21:39] <AnMaster> henninge, according to who?
[21:40] <henninge> I'd have to look that up / ask others ... ;)
[21:40] <AnMaster> henninge, at least if it is a longer translated text, like a lot of background story of an open source game (which is what I wanted to translate) it would be derivative.
[21:40] <AnMaster> If you translate a book, doesn't the original author still have copyright?
[21:41] <AnMaster> sure it may not apply to "File" or "Save" or such. But to longer texts like "One day, Tux was out walking when <events that start the game happens, fills about a page>"
[21:42] <AnMaster> henninge, and I know at least two games that have such in their gettext files. One is on launchpad
[21:42]  * henninge looks something up
[21:42] <AnMaster> and I argue that it is a GPL violation
[21:44] <henninge> AnMaster: OK, I found this for the moment: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LicensingFAQ
[21:44]  * AnMaster looks
[21:44] <henninge> AnMaster: but I am not sure if that touches your situation.
[21:45] <henninge> It was written at the time when we introduced BSD licensing.
[21:46] <henninge> My understanding would be that "translations" are licensed under BSD, that is the pairing of an English and a translated text.
[21:47] <AnMaster> henninge, so you argue you could translate Harry Potter to for example Spanish or something, claim the translation is BSD licensed and then upload it on a website?
[21:47] <AnMaster> it seems the logical conclusion of what you just said
[21:47] <henninge> So if somebody used the translation of a text in a different program it would be because that program contains the same original English text - which would then still be under a different license (which may have been violated).
[21:47] <AnMaster> henninge, However I doubt the author would like it.
[21:49] <henninge> AnMaster: Admittedly, I am on a shaky foundation here and would like to get back to you when I have solid information.
[21:49] <AnMaster> henninge, that doesn't really answer the question I just asked. Because sure it depends on how it is used. But there is another issue, and that is that you host translations under a license that doesn't match the original. Which if it was allowed would allow re-licensing any book and or such
[21:49] <henninge> AnMaster: I see you point and I don't have the answer right now.
[21:50] <AnMaster> henninge, well I'm not likely to hang around all the time in this channel, so I guess you can contact me using the first email at https://launchpad.net/~anmaster
[21:50] <AnMaster> if that is public
[21:50] <AnMaster> no idea
[21:50] <henninge> AnMaster: I just checked that ... ;)
[21:51] <AnMaster> henninge, well I guess you are an admin or something and could see it anywya
[21:51] <AnMaster> anyway*
[21:51] <AnMaster> hm I seem to have lots of openids I never use these days
[21:51] <AnMaster> launchpad too
[21:51] <henninge> AnMaster: It is not public but other Launchpad users can see it.
[21:51]  * AnMaster never use openid
[21:51] <AnMaster> now it there was a way to connect these openids to each other..
[21:52] <AnMaster> like a key ring or something :D
[21:52] <AnMaster> (yes I was sarcastic...)
[21:52] <henninge> ;)
 AnMaster: It is not public but other Launchpad users can see it. <-- err
[22:21] <AnMaster> I have "    Hide my email addresses from other Launchpad users" checked
[22:22] <henninge> AnMaster: I just checked and logged in with a test account I have - no address visible.
[22:22] <AnMaster> ah
[22:23] <AnMaster> yes as long as the staff can see it when they answer the question I had :)
[22:23] <henninge> AnMaster: I don't have general admin powers but as a LP developer I get to see a little more, I guess.
[22:25] <henninge> AnMaster: btw you should set your location to somewhere in Stockholm, or something similar general but sensible.
[22:26] <henninge> as long as it is unset anybody can set it - where ever they like ... ;)
[22:26] <AnMaster> henninge, err what?
[22:26] <AnMaster> why can anyone set it
[22:26] <AnMaster> I don't want to set my location at all
[22:26] <AnMaster> I want to not have that info on launchpad
[22:26] <henninge> put it on Antartica then, although that defeats the purpose
[22:26] <AnMaster> well I'm going to do that
[22:27] <henninge> It is a little gimmick that helps teams to see where everybody is spread out.
[22:27] <AnMaster> henninge, also Stockholm/Europe is the timezone for the entire Sweden
[22:27] <AnMaster> *shrug*
[22:28] <henninge> Hey, mine is "Berlin" although that is 300 km away from me ...
[22:28] <AnMaster> interesting, I was able to move the marker to way outside the map
[22:28] <AnMaster> check now
[22:28] <AnMaster> it is like double the map width outside the map
[22:29] <AnMaster> err, 1.5*map height rather
[22:29] <AnMaster> henninge, is that supposed to work?
[22:29] <henninge> I am not sure.
[22:30] <henninge> I have seen that it can be moved around in strange ways ...
[22:30] <henninge> google code ... :-/
[22:30] <henninge> AnMaster: but you did something, the map is completely gone from your profile now.
[22:31] <AnMaster> henninge, I clicked "hide location info"
[22:31] <AnMaster> :)
[22:31] <henninge> and the timezone, too.
[22:31] <AnMaster> mhm
[22:31] <henninge> Ah, it's as easy as that ...
[22:31] <AnMaster> henninge, was on the map page
[22:31] <AnMaster> henninge, still I moved it outside the mpa
[22:31] <AnMaster> map*
[22:31] <AnMaster> could take a screenshot
[22:34] <AnMaster> henninge, http://omploader.org/vMTlncg
[22:35] <AnMaster> henninge, :)
[22:35] <henninge> AnMaster: That does look funny. :)
[22:35] <AnMaster> henninge, and buggy
[22:35] <henninge> AnMaster: I have seen the map moved that way but not the marker.
[22:36] <henninge> Well, it could mean "outer space" ... ;)
[22:36] <AnMaster> henninge, btw I used to commit to bzr using a email address on a domain that is no longer valid, is there any way I can get launchpad to credit me for these commits?
[22:36] <henninge> Really, it is missing a star map there ...
[22:36] <henninge> phh
[22:36] <henninge> don't know
[22:37] <AnMaster> henninge, I'm talking about maybe 500+ commits
[22:37] <AnMaster> at least
[22:37] <AnMaster> probably around 1000
[22:38] <henninge> You could file an answers request (a question) with launchpad-registry about that.
[22:38] <AnMaster> hm ok
[22:38] <AnMaster> henninge, anyway I see you at least finally fixed the long standing bug of showing ubuntuwiki as some sort of contact info... Even for FreeBSD users like me
[22:38] <henninge> If those uploads can be linked to you in some way, I am sure it could be hacked somehow...
[22:39] <AnMaster> henninge, well they were on anmaster@envbot.org instead of a similar address. Also I'm the sole developer on those projects
[22:39] <henninge> Yeah, we have been trying to untangle Ubuntu and Launchpad.
[22:39] <AnMaster> yeah I couldn't afford the domain... Students sometimes can't
[22:39] <AnMaster> :/
[22:39]  * AnMaster is a student yes
[22:40] <henninge> don't know what to say "I am sorry" or "Lucky you" ;)
[22:41] <AnMaster> henninge, hey the page https://launchpad.net/~anmaster/+editwikinames still use "Example: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/",  I suggest replacing that with the Gentoo Wiki ;P
[22:41] <henninge> :P
[22:42] <AnMaster> why not, it would definitely untangle you from ubuntu, like making the ubuntu guys angry at you probably.
[22:42] <henninge> That would take it a bit too far.
[22:43] <henninge> I guess ... ;)
[22:43] <AnMaster> henninge, hm why do you use different navigation bars on different pages
[22:43] <AnMaster> like the top black one at
[22:43] <AnMaster> https://launchpad.net/~anmaster/+editsshkeys
[22:43] <AnMaster> and one on the side at: https://launchpad.net/~anmaster/+editircnicknames
[22:43] <AnMaster> it seems a bit inconsistent?
[22:43] <henninge> The UI is in a transient state from what I understand.
[22:44] <AnMaster> um
[22:44] <AnMaster> in a good design, the navigation bar would be a separate component
[22:44] <AnMaster> so you would replace it in one place... and it would update everywhere
[22:44] <AnMaster> or do you mean it is hard coded in each page or something!?
[22:45] <henninge> The side menus (coloured components) will be going away, the gray menu bars are the new style.
[22:45] <henninge> No, but page groups.
[22:46] <AnMaster> henninge, so why that just replacing a global class NotTopButTheOneBelowNavigationBar: or something (yes I guess you use python, no I haven't heard of PEP 8, and even if I had I wouldn't remember it since I mostly code in C)
[22:46] <henninge> But that is something I had little to do with so far.
[22:47] <henninge> I have only been working on Launchpad since September...
[22:47] <henninge> Yes, it is Python.
[22:47] <henninge> and Zope.
[22:48] <AnMaster> henninge, hm did it finally go open source yet or=
[22:48] <AnMaster> s/=/?/
[22:49] <AnMaster> I guess not
[22:49] <AnMaster> "There are no branches for Launchpad itself in Launchpad."
[22:49] <domas> damn, when I see bzr looping in 'GC_*' functions, I guess I should just kill it ;-)
[22:50] <AnMaster> domas, sounds like a python bug to me
[22:50] <domas> or bazaar, or both
[22:50] <AnMaster> so I guess you should get a backtrace and report a bug
[22:50]  * domas kicks ddebs
[22:50] <AnMaster> domas, does bazaar use C modules?
[22:50] <AnMaster> if not: python, if yes: trickier
[22:51] <henninge> AnMaster: https://dev.launchpad.net/OpenSourcing
[22:51]  * AnMaster has actually worked more with the python C API than with python itself
[22:51] <domas> =))
[22:51] <AnMaster> henninge, "Soyuz and Codehosting", just wondering, what do they do?
[22:52] <maxb> Soyuz is the "buildds and archive management" bit
[22:52] <henninge> AnMaster: buildes, ppas, hosted branches
[22:53] <AnMaster> henninge, hosted branches as in those on launchpad? Well I guess without that launchpad is pretty much crippled
[22:54] <domas> AnMaster: maybe it is just bazaar not behaving nicely on 500MB repo
[22:54] <AnMaster> domas, well I guess that would make sense. Makes me wonder why on earth anyone use bzr for anything that large. I guess it is images or such?
[22:55] <domas> AnMaster: mysql
[22:55] <AnMaster> domas, I see. Hm...
[22:56]  * AnMaster uses PostgreSQL anyway
[22:56] <AnMaster> but I guess that too would have a huge repo
[22:56] <AnMaster> I always wanted something like that "shallow branch" thing that git has... in bzr
[22:56] <domas> I run 'bzr log -v'
[22:57] <domas> it goes for ~700MB of memory :)
[22:57] <maxb> !
[22:58] <maxb> Is that 1.12, or earlier?
[22:58] <AnMaster> domas, bug
[22:58] <AnMaster> wait 1.12? Wasn't 1.9 released like um 1-2 months ago?
[22:58] <domas> maxb: 1.12 on my side
[22:58] <maxb> bzr releases monthly
[22:58] <maxb> so, 3 months
[22:58] <AnMaster> ...and ads a new repo format bi-monthly
[22:58] <AnMaster> adds*
[22:58] <domas> =)
[22:59] <maxb> well.... it's hard to begrudge them playing with new formats, when the basic format is compatible right back to 0.92
[22:59] <AnMaster> I wish they could settle for one... I mean I still use pack-0.92 because last I looked it was default...
[22:59] <domas> well
[23:00] <AnMaster> it confuses users
[23:00] <domas> default doesn't work that well once you have people with 500MB trees that get cloned branched merged etc :)
[23:00] <domas> and you have hundreds of trees based on same knits
[23:00] <AnMaster> domas, so which format is best?
[23:00] <domas> newest! :)
[23:00] <domas> dunno
[23:00] <domas> I'd pick the one that would work now :))
[23:00] <AnMaster> err, I need backward compatibility
[23:01] <AnMaster> to like 1.5 or so
[23:01] <AnMaster> why not at least mark most of them as of interest only to developers?
[23:02] <domas> I'd love if bazaar would be multithreaded!
[23:02] <AnMaster> I mean, I remember back when bzr added the knit format
[23:02] <abentley> AnMaster: 1.6 provides a valuable new feature.  1.9 provides improved speed.
[23:02] <domas> would run this thing on fat box :)
[23:02] <AnMaster> domas, I'd love that it doesn't have a lot of threading overhead on my old single-core CPU :)
[23:02] <AnMaster> which is the best I have
[23:02] <AnMaster> a Sempron 3300+
[23:03] <AnMaster> abentley, what was that "valuable new feature"?
[23:03] <abentley> AnMaster: Stacking.
[23:03] <AnMaster> abentley, proper GPG signed revisions?
[23:03] <AnMaster> oh no...
[23:03] <maxb> `bzr help current-formats`
[23:03] <AnMaster> abentley, what do I use stacking for?
[23:03] <domas> abentley: which format does 'bzr log -v' fastest on huge repos? :)
[23:04] <maxb> there are only three formats (and a rich-root variant of each) that are advertised as interesting
[23:04] <maxb> So in a way, most of them *are* marked as of interest only to developers
[23:04] <AnMaster> maxb, I always looked at bzr help init-repo
[23:04] <AnMaster> where there are a lot more listed
[23:04] <abentley> AnMaster: Avoiding having to push up the whole history every time to push a new branch to Launchpad.
[23:04] <AnMaster> maxb, that one says "See also: branch, checkout, init, repositories", but doesn't mention "current-formats"
[23:05] <AnMaster> abentley, does this only work for launchpad or also for other ones?
[23:05] <AnMaster> abentley, also "Avoiding having to push up the whole history"... what about bzr init-repo
[23:05] <AnMaster> doesn't it solve that?
[23:05] <domas> AnMaster: locally, not on bzr-side
[23:06] <abentley> AnMaster: It works for anything that's got it set up.  It works locally too.
[23:06] <domas> AnMaster: the problem was that people would pull repo from ~userA and upload it to ~userB
[23:06] <abentley> init-repo is fine for a single user, but doesn't work well when the branches are owned by different people.
[23:06] <domas> AnMaster: before 1.6 it was pain
[23:06] <AnMaster> ah, that is why the repos should be per-project
[23:06] <AnMaster> not per-user
[23:06] <AnMaster> :)
[23:06] <domas> that wouldn't be distributed :)
[23:07] <AnMaster> domas, hm? it would just require a major redesign of launchpad
[23:07] <domas> argh. 'bzr log' : 24556 root      20   0  550m 479m 3244 R  100 12.1   7:42.86 bzr
[23:07] <AnMaster> but it works quite ok for my setup
[23:07] <AnMaster> doko, remove it?
[23:07] <AnMaster> and symlink to /dev/null
[23:07] <AnMaster> works for me
[23:08] <abentley> AnMaster: That would mean giving users write access to each others repos.
[23:08] <AnMaster> abentley, hm... wouldn't bzraccess handle that? I mean you can have shared svn repos without clobbering
[23:09] <abentley> AnMaster: No, bzraccess does not handle that.
[23:09] <AnMaster> so I guess it is just a case of making it possible to add revision files, but not remove or change other users' files
[23:09] <AnMaster> like group writable directory, user writable files
[23:09] <AnMaster> (I fail to see why that wouldn't work)
[23:09] <abentley> AnMaster: If you're trying to economize by only having one repo, for a bunch of users, it necessarily follows that you have multiple users writing to the same repo.
[23:09] <AnMaster> abentley, correct
[23:10] <AnMaster> abentley, but is each revision stored in a separate file?
[23:10] <abentley> AnMaster: No.
[23:10] <AnMaster> ah
[23:10] <AnMaster> then it is indeed more complex
[23:11] <AnMaster> abentley, btw I can I push fron 1.9 repo to a 0.92 repo?
[23:11] <AnMaster> oh also what is rich-root good for? And subtree?
[23:12] <abentley> AnMaster: Yes, you can push from 1.9 to 0.92.  AFAIK, you can push from 1.9 to knit, and possibly weave.
[23:13] <AnMaster> hehe
[23:13] <AnMaster> the oldest I used was metaweave :)
[23:13] <abentley> AnMaster: rich-root is required by bzr-svn.  You should only use it if you're using bzr-svn.
[23:14] <abentley> AnMaster: subtree enables the experimental Nested Trees feature.  You should only use it for experimenting.
[23:14] <AnMaster> ok, so what *is* rich-root then? I mean, bzr-svn uses it, but what is it actually
[23:14] <AnMaster> svn:foo attributes or what?
[23:14] <domas> hehehe, http://p.defau.lt/?p7tmQch8XRJa01AS_QTf1Q
[23:15] <domas> it spends quite some time walking dictionaries
[23:15] <AnMaster> domas, that output is from?
[23:15] <abentley> AnMaster: It is a format in which the same data is stored about the tree root as any other subdirectory, and in which the default file-id is randomly generated.
[23:15] <domas> AnMaster: oprofile
[23:15] <AnMaster> abentley, aha
[23:15] <AnMaster> 1.12-preview:
[23:15] <AnMaster>     (native) A working-tree format that supports views and content
[23:15] <AnMaster>     filtering.
[23:15] <AnMaster> sounds cool
[23:15] <AnMaster> but whyat is content filtering in this context?
[23:16] <AnMaster> or views. I guess this means I can do CREATE VIEW foo AS SELECT revid,logentry FROM revisions; or something similar
[23:16] <AnMaster> that is all "views" mean to me
[23:16] <abentley> AnMaster: Things like native line-endings and CVS tokens.
[23:16] <AnMaster> really docs need to get better
[23:17] <AnMaster> abentley, ah finally!
[23:17] <maxb> Hmm... it's not possible to comment on a bug at the same time as adding a tag, is it?
[23:17] <AnMaster> :D
[23:17] <AnMaster> abentley, now all I'm missing is cherrypicking like darcs :)
[23:17] <abentley> AnMaster: Docs for a preview feature that hasn't even landed?  I think that is unlikely.
[23:18] <AnMaster> not like that will ever be added I guess
[23:19] <abentley> AnMaster: Like Darcs?  Not likely.  Darcs is a very different concept from other VCSes.  Like Arch?  Quite likely.  Just needs someone to work on it.
[23:19] <jmillikin> jml: I am now trying to init another remote branch, stacked on my first branch, and receive the "ERROR ... is not compatible with ... different rich-root support" again. I cannot find any way to override the stacking branch in "bzr init"
[23:19] <AnMaster> abentley, haven't used arch so no idea
[23:22] <jml> jmillikin: I wouldn't use init there.
[23:22] <jml> jmillikin: instead 'bzr push --stacked-on FIRST-BRANCH'
[23:23] <jmillikin> jml: if I try that, I receive the error: Source format does not support stacking, using format: '1.6.1-rich-root'
[23:23] <jmillikin> I am using bzr init --1.9-rich-root, however.
[23:24] <jml> jmillikin: can you please pastebin 'bzr info -v FIRST-BRANCH' and 'bzr info -v SECOND-BRANCH'?
[23:25] <jmillikin> http://pastebin.ca/1340578
[23:27] <jml> jmillikin: ok, can you please do 'bzr info lp:~jmillikin/banshee/trunk' and also pastebin the output of the push --stacked-on command I gave earlier?
[23:30] <jmillikin> http://pastebin.ca/1340583
[23:32] <jml> jmillikin: thanks
[23:33] <jml> jmillikin: can you try that last command, but to a different URL, like lp:~jmillikin/banshee/test-stacking or something?
[23:33] <jmillikin> Sure
[23:34] <jml> jmillikin: fwiw, you are doing two interesting things here. 1. is using Launchpad with non-default stacking, 2. is stacking bzr-svn bugs.
[23:34] <jmillikin> Would you like me to let it upload?
[23:35] <jml> jmillikin: what does the output say?
[23:35] <jmillikin> source format does not support stacking, yada yada
[23:35] <jmillikin> Same as the pastebin. lp:~jmillikin/banshee/lp-test-stacking
[23:35] <jelmer> fwiw, stacking support in bzr-svn is experimental
[23:36] <jml> jelmer: that's good to know.
[23:36] <jelmer> there is a warning but it was accidently disabled between 0.4.x and 0.4.17
[23:36] <jmillikin> Once I branch from an svn repo, isn't the result simply a normal bzr branch?
[23:36] <jelmer> jml, it *should* work and I'm not aware of any problems, but it's not well-tested
[23:36] <jmillikin> I assume this would apply to a branch created entirely in bzr with --1.9--rich-root also
[23:37] <jml> jmillikin: branches from svn aren't quite normal bzr branches
[23:37] <jml> jmillikin: jelmer can explain in much more detail than I though ;)
[23:37] <jmillikin> jml: finished uploading to https://code.launchpad.net/~jmillikin/banshee/lp-test-stacking . It seems to have created a --1.6-rich-root repository instead.
[23:38] <jml> jmillikin: that should be ok
[23:38]  * jml takes a look
[23:39] <jml> jmillikin: that looks fine to me.
[23:39]  * jml keeps poking
[23:40] <jmillikin> But it's not stacked, right? So trying to push it will require uploading all revisions.
[23:41] <jml> jmillikin: well, stacked or not, once a branch is up there, only new revisions get pushed
[23:41] <jml> jmillikin: but if it uploaded in that short a time, I'd stay it's stacked
[23:41] <jmillikin> I mean that if I were to push another bugfix branch, it would require pushing all revisions.
[23:41] <jml> particularly since https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jmillikin/banshee/lp-test-stacking says it's stacked too
[23:42] <jmillikin> I thought stacking was added in packs 6?
[23:42] <jml> 5
[23:42] <lifeless> jmillikin: --1.6 flavour formats stack
[23:43] <jmillikin> Oh, very nice. Was it simply not adopted until post-1.6 then, even though the repository format could support it?
[23:43] <jml> gosh we need to work on our non-default stacking story
[23:44] <lifeless> jmillikin: we made further improvements, and the ability to autostack
[23:46] <lifeless> jmillikin: the version marker on the repository format is just a sequence number
[23:50] <jml> jmillikin: ok, so lp-test-stacking is *definitely* stacked
[23:50] <jmillikin> jml: Thanks for the confirmation :)
[23:50] <jml> jmillikin: and if you push up any other branches in the same way, they'll be stacked too.
[23:50] <jml> jmillikin: but you should use the http:// branch url, not the bzr+ssh one
[23:51] <jmillikin> Trying the http:// URL prints the error: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', 'Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)')
[23:53] <jml> jmillikin: is this pushing to a new branch or to an existing one?
[23:53] <jml> (you don't need any of the stacking options for pushing to an existing branch)
[23:54] <jmillikin> An existing one. Do I have to recreate the branch to change the stacking URL?
[23:54] <jml> jmillikin: not sure, I've never tried to do it using bzr command-line options :)
[23:54] <jml> jmillikin: I was just saying with future branches that you push up
[23:54] <RainCT> Arr.. An upload to Ubuntu is hanging at 68154k/68155k, is there some magic way to fix this? :P
[23:54] <jml> RainCT: excellent question!
[23:55] <RainCT> hehe
[23:57] <maxb> So if you stack a branch via bzr+ssh, what happens when someone tries to branch from it using http?
[23:59] <jml> maxb: that's a good question.