[00:00] <Voltron_> terminal based? I don't know about that...
[00:00] <SwedeMike> then you're not serious about irc and should choose something else.
[00:00] <billybigrigger> rolf lol serious about irc? or ADDICTED to irc haha
[00:00] <RAOF> Voltron_: If that server's always on, then you can use screen+irssi to make an awesome always-on IRC client.
[00:00] <Voltron_> !smuxi
[00:00] <billybigrigger> who in their right mind opens 330 irc windows?
[00:01] <SwedeMike> billybigrigger: just because you dont understand doesnt mean you should insult people who do.
[00:01] <Voltron_> So I would install irssi on my server and then ssh into the server?
[00:02] <Voltron_> I have X forwarding enabled for sshd already
[00:02] <SwedeMike> irssi isn't X based.
[00:02] <billybigrigger> SwedeMike, totally not an insult
[00:02] <billybigrigger> i used to be addicted to irc
[00:03] <billybigrigger> never 100+ windows but many
[00:03] <SwedeMike> billybigrigger: it has nothing to do about addiction. It's like saying someone with 100 RSS feeds isnt of right mind.
[00:03] <billybigrigger> im just saying you must spend a hell of alot of time on irc to have even more than 100 windows open
[00:04] <SwedeMike> why?
[00:04] <billybigrigger> and defensiveness is a sign of addiction...just pointing that out :P
[00:04] <SwedeMike> I dont spend a hell of lot of time
[00:04] <SwedeMike> just because I am on a lot of channels doesnt mean I read them all
[00:04] <billybigrigger> well it must take you a good hour to open up 330 windows
[00:04] <SwedeMike> open? I never shut them down.
[00:04] <billybigrigger> haha ok, this is getting out of hand man, i wasn't making fun OF you
[00:04] <billybigrigger> just making a joke
[00:04] <SwedeMike> and they open automatically when someone msg:s me etc
[00:05] <billybigrigger> i get it, im just bugging you
[00:05] <billybigrigger> sorry if i offended you
[00:05] <SwedeMike> you didnt.
[00:06] <billybigrigger> good, i hoped i didnt
[00:06] <billybigrigger> some people get offended easy, you never know
[00:06] <SwedeMike> I've been on irc since 1993 and I've been an irc server admin for 4-5 of those, my skin is quite thick when it comes to people saying thing to me.
[00:07] <SwedeMike> things
[00:09] <billybigrigger> now that i think of it, me too
[00:09] <billybigrigger> about 94 for me
[00:10] <billybigrigger> since i was like 12 or 13
[00:10] <billybigrigger> wait no longer than that
[00:10] <billybigrigger> bah whatever
[00:11]  * billybigrigger finds it funny how the most downloaded gtk/compiz themes look like they belong on the next M$ OS
[00:12] <billybigrigger> on gnome-look anyway
[00:12] <billybigrigger> and can't find a good looking set of icons for the life of me
[00:14] <Volkodav> xorg eating 30 % of memory after recent upgrade ?
[00:15] <billybigrigger> 3501 root      20   0  212m  82m  13m S    2  4.4   1:51.01 Xorg
[00:15] <billybigrigger> not here
[00:15] <billybigrigger> 4.4%
[00:15] <Volkodav> 3665 root      20   0 1243m 850m  22m S    4 29.8   7:58.51 Xorg
[00:16] <Volkodav> that's a lot
[00:16] <billybigrigger> i'd say
[00:16] <Volkodav> I may need to restart X
[00:16] <Volkodav> brb'
[00:19] <dean> how do I use the intel framebuffer library intelfb
[00:19] <dean> I tried adding video=intelfb:mode=1280x800@16-60 to my grubmenu.lst
[00:19] <dean> but I got "Video mode must be programmed at boot time"
[00:20] <syockit> is that how you are to use it? I can't find the docs
[00:44] <Voltron_> on my Jaunty setup, using speedtest.net I get 3000kbps download speed. On my wifes Vista laptop, she gets 19340kbps. Is JauntyWhat could be acausing the problem?
[00:44] <FFForever> J/W What happened to packaging CNR with ubuntu? (wasn't it suppose to come in 8.04 or 8.10?)
[00:44] <Voltron_> What could be causing the problem*
[00:45] <genii> Gah freespire
[00:45] <FFForever> genii, i remember reading that it was going to be packaged no?
[00:46] <genii> FFForever: There seemed to be something on it maybe a year ago or more. But I don't think it got embraced by the *buntu community
[00:48] <FFForever> genii, ahhh, i forgot about it and then i saw it on another distro and im like hmm.....
[00:52] <FFForever> does mark ever come in here?
[00:56]  * genii looks around for sabdfl
[00:56] <genii> or so
[01:00] <Voltron_> 
[01:08] <Voltron_> my upload using Jaunty is way faster than my wife on her Vista machine, but the download is 1/4 the speed
[01:08] <genii> Maybe she's hogging all the bandwidth
[01:09] <Voltron_> she is just checking her gmail right now though
[01:09] <Voltron_> I just had her run the speedtest.net test and she got almost 20000kbps
[01:09] <Voltron_> I get 5000kbps
[01:10] <Voltron_> ping times are WAY higher on my machine too, sometimes the network connection just drops randomly also
[01:10] <Voltron_> I attempted to tune my TCP settings but that made no difference so I just went back to the defaults
[01:27] <cwillu> can anyone verify that the latest update of uswsusp breaks s2disk/s2both?  (segfaults when run)
[01:28] <mn> how is the dev going?
[01:42] <dyf> does anyone else have problems with pulseaudio?
[01:42] <dyf> or is it just me?
[01:42] <billybigrigger> i find my audio in 9.04 is pretty low
[01:42] <billybigrigger> with speakers maxed out and every volume switch i can find maxed aswell
[01:43] <dyf> sometimes, it slows my whole system down for a few seconds.. when i open gnome-system-monitor, i see pulseaudio taking up most of the CPU
[01:43] <Ienorand> If I'm doing a script for running at login and only want affected user to be able to execute it, should I change group to users group (1000) and have no executability for root and group only?
[01:44] <Ienorand> *Have executability for...
[02:12] <jpedroza> Is there anyone currently testing Jaunty on a Dell Mini 12?
[02:13] <jpedroza> If not, I have one and can volunteer
[03:04] <cancerdude> JOIN #ubuntu+1
[03:40] <_VIM_> Hi, anyone else having probs getting guest addtions working in vbox? Host is Ubuntu 8.04 desktop, and guest is Ubuntu 9.04 ... I installed the kernel-source and headers or whatever but still wont let me install guest additions
[03:42] <yesyes> is the firefox not working, not 3.0 or 3.1, bug known yet?
[03:43] <yesyes> not sure if i should report it or not. can't find the place to report bugs, or any reference to it.
[03:43] <yesyes> can't ^
[03:45] <RAOF> yesyes: Firefox works here; https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bugs is where you'll be looking for the bugs.
[03:46] <yesyes> is your version the latest version in the repo?
[03:46] <yesyes> jaunty obv.
[03:47] <th3raid0r> Okay, I am in dependency hell with the latest gnome packages update... HELP!
[03:48] <th3raid0r> Um, is there anybody out there?
[03:49] <th3raid0r> A little help would greatly be appreciated
[03:50] <th3raid0r> Okay, Is anyone awake? Coherent? ALIVE!
[03:50] <RAOF> Yes.
[03:50] <RAOF> But it's only been 3 minutes since you first spoke, and dependency issues are fairly common in a development release.
[03:51] <th3raid0r> Okay, thank you... when will this be fixed... I am running on pure GTK right now... Gnome is dead for me...
[03:51] <RAOF> Generally the solution is to wait until everything has been built, and then it'll work.  Until you can update without removing anything, don't update.
[03:51] <th3raid0r> Thanks, that is a good rule of thumb
[03:51] <danbhfive> th3raid0r: what happened?
[03:52] <th3raid0r> I have never been in a developement branch before...
[03:53] <yesyes> RAOF, what version does sudo dpkg -l firefox-3.0 output?
[03:53] <yesyes> i'm on 3.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu1
[03:53] <th3raid0r> Oh, nothing much... A recent update put me in dependency hell with gnome panel and other essential gnome parts... It affects XFCE as well... which is odd... so right now I am running on pure GTK... Now I just patiently wait...
[03:53] <RAOF> yesyes: Yup; that's my version.
[03:54] <yesyes> hmm. there has to be a problem my end then.
[03:54] <yesyes> odd.
[03:54] <_VIM_> Hi, anyone else having probs getting guest addtions working in vbox? Host is Ubuntu 8.04 desktop, and guest is Ubuntu 9.04 ... I installed the kernel-source and headers or whatever but still wont let me install guest additions
[03:54] <RAOF> Hm.  He disappears before I can say that there's nothing wrong _here_ :)
[03:55] <yesyes> is there anything more i have to do to go from alpha 3 to 4 except apt-get update/upgrade?
[03:55] <yesyes> perhaps that's the problem. although everything else works fine.
[03:55] <th3raid0r> Hmm... this is odd... I have a new error...
[03:55] <danbhfive> yesyes: yes
[03:56] <th3raid0r> What does this mean? sudo dpkg --configure -a
[03:56] <th3raid0r> dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 31775 package `lsof':
[03:56] <th3raid0r>  EOF after field name `Descr'
[03:56] <danbhfive> EOF = End Of File usually
[03:57] <danbhfive> th3raid0r: maybe it got corrupted?
[03:57] <akio> is there an app that is like a service nanny? basically restarts/starts services that crashed?
[03:58] <th3raid0r> Yes, most likely, but how would I go about fixing it?
[03:58] <yesyes> danbhfive, do you mean i have to use update-manager to go from alpha 3 to 4? and i cannot simply use apt-get upgrade?
[03:58] <danbhfive> yesyes: apt-get dist-upgrade should work, I think
[03:59] <danbhfive> th3raid0r: just a guess, but maybe force remove the package, clear your package cache, then reinstall
[03:59] <th3raid0r> Thank you, I will give that a try
[03:59] <akio> try using aptitude instead
[03:59] <yesyes> thanks dan.
[04:00] <akio> it won't help but I'm ocd about using aptitude
[04:00] <RAOF> th3raid0r: That means that your dpkg database is corrupted.  This is bad.  Hopefull runing "apt-get update" will refresh the available cache.
[04:00] <th3raid0r> I have tried that before...
[04:00] <th3raid0r> hmmm
[04:01] <akio> consult the debian docs prolly
[04:01] <akio> there should be help for that
[04:01] <th3raid0r> Eh, I will back up and reinstall...
[04:01] <akio> thats what i did before i was good enough to wing things
[04:02] <th3raid0r> I just don't feel like fixing it...
[04:03] <th3raid0r> I was thinking about rebuilding dpkg from source but nah
[04:03] <akio> i could have sworn that I saw something for what I mentioned earlier, no ideas?
[04:04] <danbhfive> akio: /etc/init.d?
[04:04] <akio> yep
[04:05] <th3raid0r> It is much easier and quicker to reinstall
[04:05] <danbhfive> you want something that manages it?
[04:05] <akio> basically if mysql craps out it restarts it
[04:05] <akio> i work at a webhosting company and i could have sworn that there was a thing to just keep services alive after crashes
[04:06] <akio> even though its wrong
[04:07] <akio> like imapd
[04:07] <akio> apache
[07:13] <scizzo-> moin
[07:16] <Sergeant_Pony> is it possible to activate restricted drivers from a console?
[07:20] <CosmiChaos> hi there, got a strange thing going on with my /home partition under jaunty alpha+ dist-uprades. first of all i have 3 ext4 partitions on 2 different drives /dev/sda1=/boot(active), /dev/sda6=/home and /dev/sdb2=/. so the problem does not directly after boot because for some minutes all goes right. but after some time, even when i do nothing, my /home partition because write-protected
[07:21] <CosmiChaos> it was /dev/sdb1=/
[07:22] <CosmiChaos> may a fsck.ext -fcy can repair it?
[07:24] <CosmiChaos> sry for my bad english it should me "becomes write-protected" :X
[07:26] <CosmiChaos> brb
[08:07] <scizzo-> Sergeant_Pony: you can install it with apt-get
[08:16] <jussi01> Im getting some repos being unable to connect this morning, anyone else having that issue?
[08:20] <jussi01> looks like somethings up with the .fi archive. meh, Ill use the main one for a bit
[08:27] <scizzo-> jussi01: I am using gb. arechive without any problem
[08:29] <jussi01> scizzo-: yeah, seems .fi had issues, main repo is fine
[09:22] <ripps> I have to say, I'm pleasantly suprised at how much better Jaunty runs compared to Intrepid. HD videos, which used to stutter alot in Intrepid, are seamless and play almost perfectly.
[09:23] <ripps> The dshow coreavc with mplayer works great now.
[09:24] <ripps> EXA in my R300 Ati driver is much more stable now, but still too unstable. Luckily, XAA seems to be much faster now, so it's not as annoying as it was before.
[09:26] <ripps> If they can hammer out the EXA issues in the ATI driver, than I can probably call this best version of Ubuntu yet.
[09:57] <histo> was there a net split or someting what happened in #ubuntu?
[09:57] <TheInfinity> histo: netsplit is always server wide, so also in this channel ;)
[09:57] <histo> Well I don't see them because i'm set to ignore everything.
[10:02] <howlingmadhowie> hi everybody. the ram usage of jaunty on my computer is growing :( it's at 1.5GB atm, and i only have a couple of programs running :(
[10:04] <howlingmadhowie> how do i find out what's using the memory? according to conky, X is using 888 MB
[10:04] <TheInfinity> howlingmadhowie: top or ps ?
[10:05] <howlingmadhowie> i had a look, but nothing seems to be using more than 2 or 3 percent (apart from firefox)
[10:05] <TheInfinity> if you relaunch ff?
[10:05] <howlingmadhowie> i'll shut firefox and see what happers
[10:05] <howlingmadhowie> happens :)
[10:06] <TheInfinity> and what do you meean by ram usage exacly?
[10:06] <howlingmadhowie> oh, that freed 330MB according to conky
[10:06] <howlingmadhowie> by ram i mean that top tells me that (now) 1136552k is used
[10:08] <howlingmadhowie> oh, interesting. when i don't do anything, the number stays the same in top. maybe it really is just firefox
[10:09] <howlingmadhowie> last night, after the computer had been running for 12 hours, it had filled up all my ram (3GB) and the mouse was slow. shutting firefox freed about half a gig
[10:10] <TheInfinity> howlingmadhowie: i dont know what conky is (and i think its not the right instrument to get information about your pc ;) )
[10:11] <howlingmadhowie> conky just shows some stuff about the X server
[10:11] <SiDi> howlingmadhowie, don't you have swap ?
[10:11] <howlingmadhowie> i have 4 Gig swap
[10:12] <SiDi> is it in use right now ?
[10:12] <SiDi> cause 1.5 gb is huge
[10:12] <howlingmadhowie> nope. swap is empty
[10:12] <SiDi> i don't have swap and i'm at 800/900 with xchat+trans+ff+ other stuff
[10:12] <SiDi> ok then there must be a bug, it may not be able to use the swap for some reason
[10:12] <SiDi> that's why your ram grows so much imho
[10:13] <howlingmadhowie> i blame flash :-D
[10:13] <howlingmadhowie> but then i always blame flash :-D
[10:14] <howlingmadhowie> i wonder who jetty is. let me see what google has to say about that
[10:14] <scizzo-> unless the machine starts swaping the mem usage is not that often any big problem
[10:14] <scizzo-> it can be cached memory that is being used
[10:17] <howlingmadhowie> yesterday it really did start to slow down :(
[10:19] <howlingmadhowie> oh i see a problem. i installed netbeans6.1 and it's installed a java servlet engine which gets started automatically.
[10:21]  * howlingmadhowie will remove netbeans :-D
[10:32] <BUGabundo> good morning everyone
[10:32] <BUGabundo> how's our beloved jakalope threating you today?
[10:37] <BUGabundo> that good enh !? eheh
[10:48] <howlingmadhowie> oh manno! tragoedie! ich habe wrestling noch nicht downloadet!
[10:48] <howlingmadhowie> sorry! wrong window!
[10:53] <smeg0l> in firefox kubuntu 9.04 alpha 4 i have no sound with flash
[10:53] <BUGabundo> howlingmadhowie: it would seem soo ehehe
[10:53] <BUGabundo> smeg0l: humm if it was gnome I would say PA
[10:54] <BUGabundo> but kde uses plone
[10:54] <BUGabundo> I don't know enough about it...
[10:54] <smeg0l> okay
[10:54] <BUGabundo> maybe some else here can point it out
[10:54] <BUGabundo> are there any bugs on LP about it?
[10:54] <smeg0l> dunno
[10:55] <smeg0l> i will check
[10:55] <BUGabundo> go and search...
[10:55] <BUGabundo> and let us know
[10:55] <smeg0l> yes
[11:01] <smeg0l> i don't find it to be reported in launchpad
[11:01] <maxb> Is there a GUI widget to turn off the new update-manager auto-launch, or do I dive into gconf-editor?
[11:25] <Oli``> Can somebody tell me what nice level their pulseaudio is running at, please?
[11:26] <Oli``> Mine starts up at 0 and I'm getting stuttering but I saw somebody in the forums had -11 by default... Wondering if mine or theirs is incorrect
[11:28] <maxb> 0 here
[11:31] <scizzo-> Oli``: you mean that the sound starts to jump a little at certain points?
[11:31] <smeg0l> BUGabundo, i have reported it on lp
[11:31] <Oli``> scizzo-: yup
[11:31] <Oli``> scizzo-: and it can't hold sync with videos
[11:31] <scizzo-> Oli``: I have that also
[11:32] <scizzo-> Oli``: not really sure but I believe it might be a known problem
[11:32] <Oli``> scizzo-: what's your PA's nice value (out of interest)?
[11:33] <scizzo-> Oli``: can't see that from here.....
[11:39] <BUGabundo> Oli``: did you read the email sent to devel discuss?
[11:40] <Oli``> BUGabundo: no, I've not seen it
[11:44] <howlingmadhowie> oh boy. something strange is going on here. total mem used (according to top): almost 2GB. of which X (according to conky): 950 MB
[11:52] <BUGabundo> Oli``: crisum mentioned what to do to workaround that
[11:52] <BUGabundo> let me get the archive link for you
[11:53] <BUGabundo> Oli``: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-February/007108.html
[11:53] <BUGabundo> howlingmadhowie: that's disk cache!
[11:54] <mvo> maxb: unfortunately there is curretnly just the gconf key - you are welcome to give feedback to the design team if you think this is not a good default
[11:54] <maxb> It's a pretty horrendous default if you prefer to use aptitude :-)
[11:55] <maxb> Sorry, it's probably a reasonable to default to shove updates in the face of novice users and make sure they pay attention
[11:55] <howlingmadhowie> BUGabundo: i hope so. firefox is starting to slow down as well :(
[11:56] <maxb> However, anyone vaguely power-user should be able to turn it off
[11:57] <howlingmadhowie> BUGabundo: and memory usage in growing at about 400kB per second even when i don't do anything
[11:58] <mvo> maxb: unfortunately there is curretnly just the gconf key - you are welcome to give feedback to the design team if you think this is not a good default
 It's a pretty horrendous default if you prefer to use aptitude :-)
 Sorry, it's probably a reasonable to default to shove updates in the face of novice users and make sure they pay attention
 However, anyone vaguely power-user should be able to turn it off
[11:59] <BUGabundo> howlingmadhowie: you must have a memory leak
[11:59] <BUGabundo> (intall and) run sudo atop 2
[11:59] <BUGabundo> then press 'm'
[11:59] <BUGabundo> to order by memory and see what's up
[11:59] <BUGabundo> if need, kill it with -9
[11:59] <mvo> maxb: if you raise your concern in a bugreport or a mail to the mailinglist I will ask the design team to come up with a solution that is fine for both novices and power users. the gconf key exists because a lot of users do not like the new behaviour
[12:00] <BUGabundo> howlingmadhowie: if you have pidign and some player running that could be it
[12:00] <maxb> bugreport on update-manager? -notifer?
[12:00] <mvo> maxb: update-notifieir please
[12:00] <maxb> which mailinglist, ooi?
[12:00] <howlingmadhowie> BUGabundo: okay, i'll have a look :)
[12:01] <mvo> maxb: ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-devel-discuss should both be fine (maybe the later is a bit better)
[12:01] <maxb> ok, I will u-d-d it and bugreport it
[12:02] <howlingmadhowie> BUGabundo: mon dieu! firefox has a vsize of 1.0G !
[12:05] <mvo> maxb: thanks, please let me know the bugnumber so that I can pass it on
[12:07] <maxb> will do, but it'll be in a few hours, need to go back to work now
[12:07] <howlingmadhowie> okay. i've killed firefox, openoffice, emacs and this strange jetty process and i'm now down to 1.6 GB used of which 1.0GB is cache.
[12:08] <howlingmadhowie> i think i'll restart X and see what happens
[12:30] <Oli``> scizzo-: did you upgrade or do a fresh install?
[12:32] <Andre_H> hi, i want ext4 in intrepid...how to get the jaunty-kernel working?
[12:35] <ActionParsnip1> hey all, I tied to install Jaunty a while back and the install breezed through on my MD5 / CD verified media. The first bootup became stuck on checking battery despite it being a desktop system. Is there a fix for this / has this been resolved?
[12:51] <scizzo-> Oli``: I did a upgrade
[12:51] <Oli``> scizzo-: Me too. I suggest adding yourself to the pulse-rt group and restarting.
[12:53] <ActionParsnip1> Oli``: are you aware of the issue I had above?
[12:55] <Oli``> ActionParsnip1: I can only say I haven't run into that problem at all. Did you report it to launchpad? If so, check its status. If not, how do you expect it to be fixed without a bug report?
[12:57] <ActionParsnip1> Oli``: it was a glancing curiosity but its already been logged
[13:01] <ActionParsnip1> i'll wait for release, easier too
[13:07] <elvirolo>  i'm trying to install jaunty to test it, but the prob is I don't have any blank cd's, just an external hd... so i used unetbootin to make the second partition bootable, containing the jaunty install cd, but it won't boot from it
[13:13]  * maxb congratulates the developers of alsdorf on a truly unique package name :-)
[13:13] <maxb> elvirolo: Have you considered using usb-creator?
[13:14] <elvirolo> maxb : ah ? haven't heard about that, i'll look it up thks
[13:14] <Oli``> elvirolo: I unetbootin wouldn't work for me either but the built-in usb creator did
[13:15] <maxb> It's a bit like unetbootin specifically for Ubuntu install cds
[13:15] <Oli``> but it does require a USB stick... you can't write to HDs
[13:17] <elvirolo> looks great
[13:17] <elvirolo> the problem is I'm using windows right now
[13:17] <elvirolo> hmmm
[13:18] <Oli``> okay long way round... Wubi first... then when you're in Wubi-Ubuntu, burn to USB... and then do your real install...
[13:18] <elvirolo> BTW, is it possible to use just one single partition on the disk ? the thing is I already have a lot of data on the disk, and i don't want to format it
[13:18] <Oli``> Seems a little silly, I have to say
[13:20] <elvirolo> i'll try and use someone else's ubuntu box
[13:20] <elvirolo> thanks for the tip anyway :)
[14:26] <maxb> So, this new shiny notification thingy, does it have any configuration?
[14:28] <maxb> or documentation?
[14:31] <Oli``> as part of the updates, I just installed alsdorf... I'm trying to find out what the package provides, what it does, etc... But I can't find it on packages.ubuntu.com or in synaptic...
[14:31] <Oli``> ah, found it by looking manually in synaptic... search can't find it for some reason
[14:32] <scizzo-> Oli``: try to use: apt-cache show <package>
[14:32] <Oli``> WHOA!
[14:32] <Oli``> that was a fancy notification
[14:32] <Oli``> scizzo-: say my name again >_<
[14:32] <maxb> Oli``: it's a shame it's no longer in the place I want, nor staying on screen for as long as I want, though :-(
[14:33] <Oli``> maxb: my old ones were always on the wrong screen (I use Twinview) so this is an improvement for me... but yeah.. they're a bit fast to go, aren't they?!
[14:33] <maxb> I use twinview too
[14:33] <maxb> they used to appear just in the right place for me to read them
[14:34] <maxb> now they appear where I have to turn my head away from what I'm primarily working on
[14:35] <Oli``> Hopefully they'll be configurable
[14:36]  * maxb senses much bug reporting to do :-(
[14:36] <maxb> the new thing also handles multiple notifications worse than the previous version
[14:37] <Oli``> I've not seen that yet
[14:40] <scizzo-> maxb: maybe there are a bunch of bugs being worked on already
[14:40] <scizzo-> maxb: its new to ubuntu with the notification stuff so I would not be suprised if there are bugs
[14:40] <Oli``> oh yeah... just used notify-send to spam myself... that's not great
[14:41] <Oli``> It's a pity there isn't one notification protocol that both KDE and Gnome (and others) could follow and they could each build their systems on top of that so running a KDE app under gnome could still send notifications, etc
[14:42] <Oli``> Doesn't sound like a desperately complex thing to begin with but I know some notifications do more than just display a message...
[14:50] <kuaera> As of an update sometime yesterday, knetworkmanager will no longer "act" on encrypted wireless networks.
[14:50] <kuaera> You can add them, you can click them, but knetworkmanager does nothing.
[15:10] <guijemont> hi
[15:12] <guijemont> I'd like to know the chances of bug #315704 (sync elisa from debian experimental) to be fixed for jaunty
[15:12] <guijemont> yeah, that one
[15:13] <guijemont> cool bot, I want the same on #elisa
[15:28] <BUGabundo> guijemont: today is the last day for sync! tomorrow we enter in feature freeze
[15:28] <BUGabundo> you better ask on #ubuntu-archive
[15:28] <BUGabundo> and read up on the wiki what the procedure is
[15:29] <guijemont> what's #ubuntu-archive?
[15:29] <guijemont> didn't know it existed
[15:29] <guijemont> maybe it should be listed there: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat#Channels
[15:30] <guijemont> hmm, actually, there doesn't seem to be any #ubuntu-archive on freenode, am I mistaken?
[15:34] <guijemont> BUGabundo: what do you mean by #ubuntu-archive?
[15:36] <BUGabundo> the irc channel
[15:36] <guijemont> on freenode?
[15:37] <guijemont> doing /join #ubuntu-archive results in a lot of loneliness for me
[15:47] <BUGabundo> humm do a search for it then... I must have some typo on it
[16:17] <billybigrigger> pidgin crashes every time i send a message to someone on msn, anyone else have this problem?
[16:18] <billybigrigger> actually the other user is using pidgin, just we are both using the msn protocol
[16:19] <BUGabundo> billybigrigger: try to disable all plugins
[16:19] <BUGabundo> its usually one of them
[16:20] <billybigrigger> nautilus integration is the only plugin active, its disabled now
[16:20] <BUGabundo> and try to kill/suspend pulse audio
[16:20] <BUGabundo> brb
[16:20] <BUGabundo> reboot
[16:23] <_VIM_> Can someone help me get higher resolution than 800x600 in vbox? I have Jaunty in vbox 1.5.6
[16:53] <tretle> so the new notifications landed
[16:53] <tretle> http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4476/screenshotfx9.png
[16:54] <BUGabundo> I have alredy been seen something diff for a while
[16:57] <fosco__> tretle, is that your desktop?
[16:58] <tretle> yup
[16:58] <Pici> pretty
[16:58] <fosco__> let's see the notifications
[16:59] <noodlesgc> is that with or without compiz-fusion running?
[16:59] <tretle> I sent an email to the guy who made the wallpaper about ubuntu and jaunty's art submission page and hes interested in submitting stuff
[16:59] <tretle> no I have compiz running
[17:00] <BUGabundo> tretle: really big desktop enh !?
[17:01] <tretle> 1080i 15" laptop screen
[17:01] <tretle> :D
[17:01] <BUGabundo> btw does compiz fusion work for you guys?
[17:01] <BUGabundo> when I use it, it always fails to reload
[17:01] <tretle> yup with opensource ati drivers
[17:01] <BUGabundo> not sure if it local or bug
[17:02] <crdlb> pastebin the output of compiz
[17:02] <tretle> by the way the new notifications look the exact same minus the transparancy and animations but still has curved angles etc without compositing
[17:03] <BUGabundo> tretle: was it an update, option or ppa ?
[17:03] <BUGabundo> I don't have them look as you
[17:03] <Oli``> BUGabundo: fails on start-up but works when I enable it from visual effects
[17:03] <BUGabundo> Oli``: humm looks like me
[17:03] <tretle> its part of the ubuntu-desktop package
[17:03] <BUGabundo> when I choose to get compiz via compizfusion
[17:03]  * BUGabundo checks for updates
[17:04] <tretle> if its being held back update it from synaptic
[17:05] <BUGabundo> my queue is clean
[17:05] <mvo> BUGabundo: what does ~/.xsession-errors show when you start compiz (or the terminal when you start it from a terminal)?
[17:06] <BUGabundo> I just loose my WM when I start from cli
[17:06] <BUGabundo> if I don't have a terminal at hand, I can't reload it
[17:06] <BUGabundo> :(
[17:06] <BUGabundo> let me look at erros?
[17:07] <mvo> BUGabundo: hm, could you please log into a "failsafe terminal" and run "compiz" there and put the output into a paste.ubuntu.com ?
[17:07] <BUGabundo> sure
[17:07] <mvo> BUGabundo: or just upload your ~/.xsession-errors file
[17:07] <BUGabundo> let me just clean my .xseesion-errors
[17:07] <mvo> (but that probably contains a lot more stuff :)
[17:07] <BUGabundo> and try to run it now!
[17:08] <BUGabundo> mvo: regular Appearance->extra, or can I try compiz fusion
[17:09] <BUGabundo> mvo humm do you do work on UM too, right?
[17:09] <mvo> BUGabundo: yes
[17:09] <BUGabundo> remember that old bug about lines being cut?
[17:09] <mvo> oh, yes
[17:09] <BUGabundo> just got it, right now
[17:09] <BUGabundo> for the first time in months
[17:09] <BUGabundo> it was okay 1 hour ago
[17:09] <mvo> I have seen it too recently, I suspect its a bug with gtk, I don't know what u-m could do to trigger it :/
[17:10] <BUGabundo> me neither
[17:10] <BUGabundo> any logs around?
[17:26] <fosco__> tretle, i've done a dist-upgrade and still having only the two normal themes for popup notifications
[17:26] <fosco__> did you do something special?
[17:29] <tretle> go into software sources and make sure that proposed packages are enabled
[17:30] <fosco__> ok
[17:31] <tretle> well did that work?
[17:31] <tretle> you should see an update for ubuntu desktop
[17:32] <fosco__> ummm nop, still the same
[17:33] <fosco__> let's try reinstalling ubuntu-desktop
[17:34] <BUGabundo1> tretle: I'm stuck a no updates either
[17:38] <tretle> enable proposed and backports then make sure your doewnloading from the main server and dont forget to refresh update manager after the chages
[17:38]  * BUGabundo1 checks if ubutnu-desktop ended removed
[17:39] <BUGabundo1> LOLOLOLOL
[17:39] <BUGabundo1> it was removed
[17:39] <BUGabundo1> mvo: didn't UM -d forced to install ubuntu-desktop?
[17:39] <BUGabundo1> hummm that reminds me of a bug of a friend of mine
[17:40] <BUGabundo1> using ibex xubuntu ended up with Ubuntu jaunty
[17:40] <BUGabundo1> not sure its related
[17:40]  * BUGabundo1 there comes all evo crap
[18:22] <fosco__> ups, now i don't have notifications menu
[18:22] <fosco__> :-?
[18:23] <bruce89> they've replaced it with something else
[18:25] <bruce89> apparently a black rectangle is better than a bubble
[18:25] <fosco__> i can't see where it is
[18:30] <cwillu> fosco_, this falls under the category of "not entirely unexpected breakage when running alpha's and dailies of unreleased distro's" :p
[18:30] <cwillu> fosco_, still broken if you log in as a new user?
[18:31] <cwillu> btw, can anybody verify that s2disk/s2both segfaults after chvt'ing to vt9 after the latest update to uswsusp?
[18:32] <cwillu> on 32bit
[18:34] <Ienorand> cwillu: I'll try in a bit, updating...
[18:35] <BUGabundo1> cwillu: I already have the UM logs I mention the other day
[18:35] <BUGabundo1> need to open a bug for it
[18:35] <BUGabundo1> let me pastebin then so you can take a look
[18:45] <fosco__> let's try
[18:50] <fosco__> still the same, notification options aren't there
[18:52] <Fjordside> Hi, Im on 9.04 / how do I disable IPv6?
[18:52] <Fjordside> ive tryed blacklist bad_list aliases and so on none seem to bite
[18:53] <Fjordside> in under modprobe
[19:04] <fosco__> can someone tell me how the notification program is called?
[19:05] <fosco__> i want to execute it from console
[19:05] <Amaranth> that'd be notify-send
[19:05] <bruce89> you need libnotify-bin installed for that
[19:05] <Amaranth> Right, which is not installed by default
[19:05] <Amaranth> So there is no easy way to do it from a default Ubuntu install
[19:06] <Amaranth> unless screwing with dbus-send is your idea of easy
[19:06] <ali1234> "screwing with dbus" isn't that hard with python
[19:06] <Amaranth> sure, but from console you have to use dbus-send
[19:06] <bruce89> not as easy as just installing libnotify-bin
[19:07] <ali1234> true
[19:07] <ali1234> i just got the new notify stuff in todays updates
[19:07] <ali1234> seems like a lot of things in gnome arn't using it
[19:08] <ali1234> is this still WIP?
[19:08] <bruce89> clearly
[19:08] <Amaranth> It's not even officially allowed in GNOME
[19:08] <fosco__> notify-send is used to print a notification, i want to know the name of the notifications configurator programa
[19:08] <fosco__> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rgO8m__aY7g/SXJH3xzoZMI/AAAAAAAABQk/wbot6Ak-Ec4/s1600-h/notificaciones_jaunty.jpg <- this
[19:08] <Amaranth> Apps that use it have to have a compile-time way to disable using it
[19:08] <ali1234> example: n-m is putting up "ok/cancel/dont show this again" dialogs
[19:08] <bruce89> quite right so
[19:09] <bruce89> although I think libnotify is in GNOME now
[19:09] <Amaranth> fosco__: notification-properties
[19:09] <Amaranth> I think it was finally allowed as an external dependency
[19:10] <Amaranth> But there was a fight even for that since it is completely unmaintained
[19:10] <bruce89> but of course the daemon that actually displays them isn't
[19:10] <Amaranth> that's fine though
[19:10] <Amaranth> You can use libnotify without the daemon and it just won't do anything
[19:10] <bruce89> but I think Ubuntu should have left things alone, and waited for what GNOME 3.0 came up with
[19:10] <fosco__> thanks Amaranth, was that
[19:10] <Amaranth> But you don't have to #ifdef the hell out of your code
[19:11] <bruce89> yes, that makes sense
[19:11] <Amaranth> bruce89: From what I've seen of GNOME 3.0 we're much better off working on things ourselves
[19:11] <bruce89> why?
[19:12] <Amaranth> Have you seen gnome-shell?
[19:12] <bruce89> yes, it's still a prototype
[19:12] <Amaranth> Not only do I think the whole concept is broken it also doesn't allow you to use compiz or gnome-do
[19:12] <bruce89> Mutter surely makes compiz obselete
[19:13] <Amaranth> It surely doesn't
[19:13] <bruce89> and there was talk about doing gnome-do stuff straight in GTK+
[19:13] <Amaranth> It's still the cheerios of window managers
[19:13] <Amaranth> bruce89: By gnome-do I actually meant Docky, sorry
[19:13] <bruce89> I doubt that gnome-shell will be what 3.0 is actually
[19:14] <bruce89> but Ubuntu are clearly trying to make 2.0 as much like it as possible
[19:14] <Amaranth> How do you figure?
[19:14] <bruce89> the notification stuff
[19:15] <Amaranth> How is that like 3.0? I haven't seen anything from GNOME about notifications in 3.0
[19:15] <bruce89> and the removal of the notification applets to be replaced by a single applet
[19:15] <bruce89> all of which bypasses upstream I may add
[19:16] <Amaranth> When upstream goes crazy what choice do you have?
[19:16] <bruce89> GNOME 2.26 is not crazy
[19:16] <bruce89> so there's no need to make it so
[19:17] <Amaranth> I'm talking about 3.0
[19:17] <Amaranth> None of the changes you're talking about are going to be in 9.04
[19:17] <bruce89> well, the notifications are there now, I'd know
[19:17] <Amaranth> Maybe 9.10, by then GNOME 3.0 is right around the corner
[19:17] <Amaranth> They really aren't
[19:18] <bruce89> Amaranth: how so, I've got them right now
[19:18] <Amaranth> Notifications in general have been there in every distro for like 5 years
[19:18] <Amaranth> Ubuntu's changes to them are not there
[19:18] <bruce89> they are
[19:18] <Amaranth> You have black bubbles with transparency?
[19:18] <Amaranth> that slide in and fade out?
[19:18] <bruce89> yu[
[19:19] <bruce89> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6756611&postcount=21
[19:19] <fosco__> i have black rounded rectangles only
[19:19] <bruce89> well, it's as far as they've got now
[19:20] <Amaranth> I still have the orange brown looking ones
[19:20] <bruce89> that's only slightly barmy, but autolaunching of update-manager is the full straightjacket
[19:20] <Amaranth> Wait, are you using a dark theme?
[19:22] <ali1234> well the new notifications *are* kind of ugly
[19:22] <bruce89> changing notification daemon for no reason is pretty pointless
[19:22] <BUGabundo1> and it works only sometime....
[19:22] <Amaranth> bruce89: Looks like at most a theme change
[19:23] <bruce89> indeed, but I think they have more plans (read: patches)
[19:23] <Amaranth> bruce89: Sure, but those plans require compositing everywhere
[19:24] <bruce89> yes, I don't like that either
[19:24] <bruce89> but as others point out, it'll likely not come to pass
[19:24] <Amaranth> Sure it will
[19:25] <bruce89> not if I get my way
[19:25] <bruce89> or GNOME
[19:25] <Amaranth> With a even somewhat decent computer you can do compositing in software
[19:25] <Amaranth> Simple transparency and shadows only, of course
[19:25] <Amaranth> bruce89: gnome-shell depends on compositing always being possible
[19:25] <bruce89> true
[19:25] <bruce89> but at least that's GNOME doing it
[19:25] <Amaranth> and compiz 0.10 will support XRender compositing
[19:26] <mvo> bruce89: if you don't like the autolaunch, raise it on the mailinglist and/or file a bug. the design team will have a look
[19:26] <bruce89> I have
[19:26] <bruce89> they said take it to the mailing list, so I did
[19:27] <Amaranth> autolaunch?
[19:27]  * Amaranth does a dist-upgrade
[19:27] <Amaranth> Guess I am a couple days behind...
[19:27] <bruce89> Amaranth: update-manager will launch automatically every 2 days
[19:27] <Amaranth> oh, it's about time
[19:28] <BUGabundo1> humm bruce89 is nt it on every boot???
[19:28] <bruce89> it's supposed to be 2 days
[19:28] <bruce89> I don't know why they want to make the window list a notification area
[19:29] <peterz> someone else have had their wireless stuff stop working recently?
[19:30] <maco> peterz: what kind of wireless?
[19:30]  * maco is installing a kernel update right now
[19:31] <peterz> maco: intel 5300
[19:31] <peterz> maco: but I suspect its not the kernel, just network-wanker going bad
[19:31] <maco> peterz: you could use wireless tools to test that theory
[19:31] <peterz> I can iwlist wlan0 scan the thing
[19:32] <peterz> network thingy just won't connect
[19:32] <peterz> won't even show the blue gear thingy
[19:32] <maco> can you connect with iwconfig too?
[19:32] <maco> blue gear? knetworkmanager?
[19:32] <peterz> don't have any open access point
[19:32] <peterz> maco: yeah, kde
[19:32] <maco> is it WEP or WPA?
[19:32] <peterz> wpa2
[19:32] <maco> >< i dont know how to use wpa_supplicant
[19:33] <maco> did you try plasmoid-network-manager?
[19:33] <peterz> nope, but I suspect the actual fronend won't do much good
[19:34] <BUGabundo1> maco: its quite easy
[19:34] <maco> ive had gnome's nm-applet break and knm work fine. the following week i had knm break and then gnome's nm-applet worked fine.
[19:34] <BUGabundo1> just need to create /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf
[19:34] <maco> BUGabundo1: dtchen showed me how to edit /etc/network/interfaces to do it
[19:34] <maco> BUGabundo1: dude, that file is like 50 feet long
[19:34] <maco> you can add like 4 lines to /etc/network/interfaces and be done with it
[19:35] <maco> i just dont know the 4 lines
[19:35] <maco> well one is something like: driver "wext"
[19:35] <peterz> wpa-driver wext, and such, I found some example
[19:35] <maco> BUGabundo: you missed that i said there are about 4 lines to add to interfaces, but i dont lknow them
[19:35] <peterz> I'll poke a bit at that
[19:35] <maco> peterz: link please?
[19:35] <maco> so i can learn
[19:36] <peterz> maco: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=202834
[19:36] <maco> thanks
[19:44] <Amaranth> Neat, a bug in metacity window handling that compiz handles properly
[19:45] <Amaranth> Don't see those too often, hopefully will be seeing more like that soon :)
[19:45] <peterz> and here I thought all of metacity window handling was a bug ;-)
[19:46] <ali1234> compiz is really the only compositing wm with even a single useful feature
[19:46] <ali1234> and it really is a single useful feature too
[19:46] <maco> ali1234: lies!
[19:46] <maco> you haven't used kwin
[19:47] <ali1234> yes i have
[19:48] <fde> ali1234: kwin has most of the features compiz has... you just didn't set them up... also, there is xfwm4 but I haven't played with that... what is this "useful feature"?
[19:48] <ali1234> zooming
[19:48] <Amaranth> :D
[19:48] <Amaranth> ezoom is awesome
[19:48] <Amaranth> I always try to do it on Windows
[19:48] <Amaranth> Of course you can do it on OS X so when I try there it actually works :)
[19:48] <ali1234> yes me too
[19:49] <fde> ali1234: kwin can do zooming
[19:49] <ali1234> in kwin after i zoom in i can't pan around
[19:49] <Amaranth> ezoom is the reason I'm not using compiz++ right now
[19:49] <maco> i consider the most useful features of compiz to be: i can jump from workspace #last to workspace #1 directly, without passing through the rest. kwin does this. metacity fails. the other most useful thing is Scale/Exposé. Kwin does this too.
[19:49] <ali1234> kwin also lacks the ability to zoom in to fit a single window with a shortcut
[19:50] <Amaranth> ezoom also does zoom box, I don't think kwin does
[19:51] <ali1234> so as usual, kde does everything, but nothing well :/
[19:51] <maco> didnt know that one existed in compiz...
[19:52] <Amaranth> ali1234: The problem with compiz is that it does everything :P
[19:53] <ali1234> you know what i like the least about the new notifications? it has two different sized fonts. the over use of many different font sizes is my number 1 reason for hating kde...
[19:53] <Amaranth> that reminds me, is it possible to make the clock in KDE smaller text and/or 12 hour time?
[19:53] <Amaranth> I was using plasma with docky for awhile but that just drove me nuts
[19:53] <maco> Amaranth: regional settings for 12h time
[19:54] <ali1234> the kde panel clock changes font size to fit the panel. so make the panel smaller
[19:54] <Amaranth> maco: Well it was ignoring my settings then
[19:54] <maco> apparently HH means 24hour time and pH or whatever it is is 12hr
[19:54] <Amaranth> I wanted the panel that size and the date showing next to the time was in a smaller font
[19:54] <ali1234> yeah that would be nice. but impossible afaik
[19:55] <Amaranth> the time seemed to literally push all the way to the edges of the panel, no padding at all
[19:55] <ali1234> yes, it;s extremely ugly
[19:55] <ali1234> the time should be the same size as the date, both of which should be the same size as all the other text, all of which should be whatever size i say they should be
[19:56] <Amaranth> Or don't let me choose the size but include a little padding
[19:56] <fde> Amaranth: yes... both are possible... right click > Preferences
[19:57] <fde> Amaranth: padding is automatic based on size you choose and font etc
[19:57] <fde> Amaranth: it tries to fill the widget with the text though
[19:58] <Amaranth> the time also seems to stretch to take all possible horizontal space
[19:58] <Amaranth> so I had my time in the middle of the panel and the date on the right side
[19:58] <Amaranth> In any case, I went back to gnome-panel for now
[19:58] <Amaranth> Probably just write my own
[20:00] <billybigrigger> lol, what is gnome-thumbnail???
[20:00] <billybigrigger>  8226 root      20   0 33096 1684 1364 R  100  0.1  69:23.67 gnome-thumbnail
[20:00] <billybigrigger> been running cpu2 @ 100% for ever
[20:00] <ali1234> generates the thumbnails you see in nautilus
[20:00] <billybigrigger> haha
[20:00] <billybigrigger> cool
[20:00] <ali1234> do you have a nautilus open on a folder where a video is being downloaded (ie torrent)
[20:00] <billybigrigger> nope
[20:00] <ali1234> if so it regenerates the thumbs constantly
[20:01] <billybigrigger> just closed my 3 nautilus windows
[20:01] <ali1234> also same goes for desktop
[20:01] <billybigrigger> still running @ 100
[20:02] <billybigrigger> safe to kill this process then?
[20:02] <ali1234> you might not see any new thumbnails until you reboot... but other than that yeah i think it is safe
[20:02] <billybigrigger> well cpu2 dropped to normal, and cpu1 is @ 100% now
[20:03] <billybigrigger> well whats causing this?
[20:03] <ali1234> dunno
[20:03] <ali1234> try lsof on the process etc
[20:03] <ali1234> or look in proc what it has open
[20:03] <billybigrigger> you'd think gnome-thumbnails would kill itself if no nautilus windows are open no?
[20:03] <mnemo> try:
[20:03] <mnemo> gdb -p `pidof gnome-thumbnail`
[20:03] <mnemo> and then to "bt" a couple of times
[20:03] <mnemo> and see what the functions are called
[20:04] <ali1234> well there's always the files on desktop
[20:04] <billybigrigger> gnome-thumbnail: No such file or directory.
[20:04] <billybigrigger> Illegal process-id: pidof.
[20:04] <maco> maybe $() insted of ``?
[20:05] <savvas> Has anyone else noticed the white screen while using fast user switch applet?
[20:05] <billybigrigger> sudo gdb -p $(pidof gnome-thumbnail)
[20:05] <billybigrigger> ?
[20:05] <billybigrigger> (gdb) bt
[20:05] <billybigrigger> No stack.
[20:07] <savvas> I can't remember if it was compiz or nvidia's fault for the white screen in login.. hm..
[20:12] <maco> savvas: i think it was the combination
[20:12] <maco> or wait...
[20:12] <maco> you mean when two compiz sessions are running simultaneously?
[20:12] <maco> if that, then it's compiz. intel can't do it either
[20:13] <maco> if it's just plain white screen with only 1 compiz session running, then thatd be nvidia, i think
[20:13] <RAOF> nvidia can do two sessions simultaneously, but with bugs.
[20:14] <RAOF> The most interesting of the bugs, and the one you've probably run into is: any textures (windows) created on a VT that's not active are empty - pure white.
[20:15] <savvas> maco: yes, login with one account, use fast user switch applet to log in to another account, then use the applet to switch back to the former account - it shows a white screen, and only a reboot allows me to use the desktop manager again, "sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart" using the console (ctrl-alt-f1) doesn't do the trick unfortunately
[20:16] <maco> oh i dont mean switch back
[20:16] <maco> i remember back during edgy (havent tried it since) if you had compiz going and switched to another user, that user would jsut get white
[20:16] <Amaranth> savvas: The white screen is actually gnome-screensaver
[20:17] <Amaranth> savvas: If you blindly type your password you get back in
[20:17] <savvas> there was a similar bug fixed for intrepid if I remember well
[20:17] <savvas> Amaranth: if I disable the screensaver, I won't have this problem?
[20:17] <Amaranth> savvas: Shouldn't
[20:17] <savvas> doesn't hurt to try :)
[20:17] <savvas> be right back
[20:18] <Amaranth> We only have the bug because we force gnome-screensaver to be unredirected for security reasons
[20:18] <Amaranth> err, to not be unredirect
[20:18] <Amaranth> ed
[20:19] <Amaranth> Confused? Me too.
[20:20] <savvas> heheh
[20:22] <Amaranth> savvas: Did it work?
[20:22] <savvas> Amaranth: disabled screensaver but still getting the white screen, thanks for the blind typing tip though!!
[20:22] <Amaranth> So the screensaver still comes on
[20:23] <Amaranth> I don't think you can make it not come on on user switch without uninstalling it
[20:23] <savvas> wait, I'll try and kill it
[20:23] <Amaranth> dbus will start it again when something tries to use it
[20:23] <savvas> woohoo!
[20:24] <Amaranth> or not
[20:25] <savvas> there were a running gnome-screensaver processes: ps aux | grep screensaver
[20:26] <savvas> -a
[20:29] <maco> Amaranth: ive had the screensaver hang on letting me log back in. it is definitely killable from a TTY
[20:31] <billybigrigger> what is the best way to install flash for 9.04 64bit, straight from adobe's site?
[20:31] <savvas> billybigrigger: I think it's already in use as flashplugin-nonfree, isn't it?
[20:32] <billybigrigger> hopefully it works
[20:33] <savvas> hm.. maybe I'm wrong
[20:33] <savvas>     - backout switch to native 64-bit alpha/beta plugin; reinstantiate
[20:33] <savvas>       nspluginwrapper logic for _all_ archs
[20:33] <fde> Will Firefox 3.1 be the version released with jaunty?
[20:35] <savvas> fde: sudo apt-get install firefox-3.1
[20:35] <fde> savvas: well, I saw that... what I meant is will that be the default version for jaunty?
[20:36] <savvas> no idea
[20:37] <Amaranth> no
[20:37] <MamboKurt> i got a problem with my ati grphics card. maybe the drivers do not work with xorg from jaunty. glxinfo says "Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0"." and ccc does have problems initialising and says there are no drivers or are not properly working
[20:37] <Amaranth> Too late
[20:37]  * fde cries
[20:37] <fde> Guess I'll be wondering back to Fedora come release time then
[20:37] <Amaranth> MamboKurt: fglrx does not work with jaunty
[20:37] <bruce89> fde: probably a good idea anyway
[20:38] <MamboKurt> Amaranth: thanks. you have an idea why and when it will :)
[20:39] <Amaranth> MamboKurt: The DDX ABI changed, fglrx needs to be modified to match
[20:39] <fde> bruce89: hah... yeah, Rawhide tends to be much more buggy than Ubuntu pre-releases though... they do a lot of annoying things with SELinux during release cycles that I do not enjoy testing
[20:40] <bruce89> at least they don't bugger about with GNOME as much
[20:40] <savvas> billybigrigger: as far as I can see, flashplugin-nonfree still uses npwrapper and not 10.0.d21.1 - you can install it in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins from http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/flashplayer10/libflashplayer-10.0.d21.1.linux-x86_64.so.tar.gz though
[20:40] <Amaranth> When? Well, last release we ended up with an Ubuntu-only pre-release fglrx driver from ATI so...
[20:41] <fde> bruce89: umm, they use the pre-releases of gnome... I don't notice much patched stuff in Ubuntu's Gnome... except for some niceties like the notification thing and the improved fast-user-switch applet
[20:41] <billybigrigger> savvas, i have flashplugin-nonfree installed and working now thanks
[20:41] <bruce89> I was thinking about the lack of PackageKit etc.
[20:41] <fde> indicator isn't a patch though, its just an add on to gnome
[20:42] <savvas> billybigrigger: but it's not the 64-bit native by adobe :)
[20:42] <Amaranth> bruce89: PackageKit isn't GNOME
[20:42] <Amaranth> PackageKit is Fedora and they're trying to push it into GNOME
[20:42] <bruce89> I know, I'll shut up
[20:42] <fde> bruce89: packagekit isn't part of gnome... it also doesn't cater to apt very well
[20:42] <RAOF> bruce89: And you're welcome to install PackageKit.
[20:42] <bruce89> yes thank you
[20:42] <RAOF> It works much, much better than last time I tried it :)
[20:42] <bruce89> it's FreeDesktop actuall
[20:42] <billybigrigger> savvas, oooh
[20:42] <fde> bruce89: (mostly the fact that apt utilizes stdout a lot for interaction.... they refuse to support it, so packagekit is a pain on .deb systems)
[20:42] <Amaranth> RAOF: Can it still only do one package at a time?
[20:43] <fde> bruce89: no its not
[20:43] <RAOF> Amaranth: No!  It no longer blocks for 30sec every time you click on its UI, either!
[20:43] <Amaranth> fde: That's not true, any package that uses stdin is considered broken in Debian and Ubuntu too
[20:43] <fde> bruce89: its yet another thing redhat is trying to ram down our throats, they are not colaborating via fd.o though
[20:43] <Amaranth> fde: And debconf can use a frontend that doesn't use stdin
[20:43] <bruce89> fde: and how's that any different to Ubuntu?
[20:44] <fde> Amaranth: I didn't say stdin though... packagekit would not by able to use debconf due to lack of stdout support
[20:44] <billybigrigger> savvas, libflashplayer.so from the archive you showed me to download, place that in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
[20:44] <bruce89> for instance, upstart, usplash, ubiquity etc.
[20:44] <Amaranth> fde: Ah, in that case they can use other methods, debconf is pretty configurable
[20:45] <fde> Amaranth: I might be wrong, but from what I've seen of the code for the different outputs, they use stdout too?
[20:45] <savvas> billybigrigger: yep, then restart firefox and visit this url: about:plugins
[20:45] <Amaranth> fde: The GTK+ one uses stdout?
[20:45] <fde> Amaranth: but why when Ubuntu already has methods for such things?
[20:45] <Amaranth> Exactly
[20:45] <Amaranth> PackageKit is still not better then synaptic and gnome-app-install so there is no point in using it
[20:46] <fde> Amaranth: last time I looked, yes... although I haven't looked since Ubuntu started utilizing it, so could be its heavily modified since?
[20:46] <billybigrigger> savvas, ok
[20:46] <bruce89> apart from the fact it is not distro-specific
[20:46] <fde> Amaranth: uhh... gnome-codec-install *  ;)
[20:46] <billybigrigger> savvas, installed, what am i looking for in about:plugins?     File name: libflashplayer.so
[20:46] <billybigrigger>     Shockwave Flash 10.0 d21
[20:46] <Amaranth> bruce89: But the package names are so...
[20:46] <mvo> fde: one problem with packagekit is that it does not support debconf (by design)
[20:47] <Amaranth> mvo: I thought that was fixed?
[20:47] <fde> bruce89: non-distro specific = overall lacking... you can't specialize on functionality as you have to cater to more
[20:47] <fde> mvo: I already brought that up
[20:47] <mvo> Amaranth: its a ongoing discussion with upstream, we can set DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive, but thats about it
[20:47] <mvo> fde: oh, thanks. missed that
[20:47] <Amaranth> mvo: Ugh
[20:47] <fde> Amaranth: no, the guy doing PackageKit said it wasn't a bug, and decided to start a flame about stdout being bad practice.
[20:47] <Amaranth> mvo: So no java license question, no conffile management, etc
[20:48] <mvo> its unfortunate, PK is nice
[20:48] <mvo> Amaranth: yes
[20:48] <bruce89> I see
[20:48] <mvo> we could deal with conffiles with some pretty big workarounds
[20:48] <mvo> but nothing like the java stuff
[20:48] <Amaranth> PackageKit == broken by design then
[20:48] <fde> Amaranth: Last I checked, the only answer currently accepted by Richard is for debconf to be set to high so it doesn't ask questions... but it still breaks things like java due to required signing of the license
[20:48] <mvo> or basicly anthing wehere nointeractive will make the package fail
[20:49] <Amaranth> wtf
[20:49] <mvo> Amaranth: PK clams its the other way aorund :) debs are broken by design
[20:49] <Amaranth> gnome-power-manager popped up a dialog saying I was running on battery power
[20:49] <Amaranth> But the buttons on the dialog are "Don't show me this again", "Cancel, and "OK"
[20:49] <fde> Hence the current stand off... and lack of packagekit crud in Ubuntu
[20:49] <bruce89> Amaranth: yet another daft patch
[20:49] <Amaranth> If I push cancel does it connect my AC power again?
[20:50] <fde> Amaranth: during an update? its annoying but I don't think its fixable... its due to reloading it afaik
[20:50] <ali1234> Amaranth: i get that too since the notification changes. n-m and also the unmounting stuff does it too
[20:50] <Amaranth> fde: No, my power flickered
[20:50] <fde> Amaranth: ew
[20:50] <savvas> billybigrigger: yep, that's it!
[20:50] <Amaranth> fde: The problem is why is there a cancel button
[20:50] <bruce89> Amaranth: dodgy coding
[20:51] <Amaranth> Honestly there shouldn't be a dialog at all
[20:51] <ali1234> Amaranth: surely the problem is it is showing that dialog at all rather than using the notification-daemon?
[20:51] <fde> ali1234: I get that in every distro I use when updating g-p-m ... but I've never had it flicker
[20:51] <Amaranth> Pop up a notification every time or don't show anything and play a little sound or something
[20:51] <bruce89> Amaranth: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/2.24.2-2ubuntu1/+changelog
[20:51] <Amaranth> bruce89: I'm aware of the changes
[20:51] <fde> Amaranth: you can set it to stay there....
[20:52] <fde> Amaranth: there is a check box in System > Preferences > Power Management to have it show it always
[20:52] <Amaranth> fde: I know, I set that first thing after install
[20:52] <MamboKurt> hey there. anybody else noticed, that the repositories are "broken". and by broken i mean that evolution-common (2.25.91-0ubuntu1) isn't the but evolution-common (2.25.90-0ubuntu1). at least at the german repo. i head to switch to the main repo to get the update-manager to install the updates and not pointing at me and shouting "you killed ubuntu" :)
[20:52] <bruce89> that notification shouldn't be a dialogue though, bug time
[20:53] <Amaranth> MamboKurt: Not broken, mirror is a little out of sync
[20:53] <MamboKurt> ok
[20:53] <MamboKurt> just wanted to tell somebody
[20:53] <Amaranth> MamboKurt: It just needs to update, wait an hour or so
[20:53] <MamboKurt> Amarath: i was waiting 5h before i switched
[20:54] <fde> MamboKurt: to avoid it becoming annoying... just use sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ... then such things will simply be held back rather than displaying an error
[20:54] <billybigrigger> savvas, cool beans, thanks alot
[20:54] <savvas> np :)
[20:55] <savvas> billybigrigger: be sure to check the adobe site frequently to be sure you have the latest 64-bit though: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
[20:55] <Amaranth> MamboKurt: In that case perhaps your mirror is broken
[20:55] <fde> Why aren't they packaging the 64bit version in jaunty?
[20:56] <fde> They packaged 10 before it was released on 386
[20:56] <MamboKurt> fde: i know, but the update-manager told me something about resolve and so, and i had a little red failure sign on my systray.
[20:56] <MamboKurt> Amaranth: its the official german repo
[20:56] <fde> MamboKurt: yeah, the update-manager does some goofy things when dealing with pre-release versions...
[20:57] <fde> MamboKurt: umm, that is just a pointer to another mirror
[20:57] <mvo> MamboKurt: do you remember what exact message there was in the red failure sign?
[20:57] <fde> If Ubuntu actually tried to serve everyone that didn't bother switching mirror, they would be slashdotted constantly
[20:58] <fde> mvo: probably evolution not being installable
[20:58] <MamboKurt> mvo: not exactly. i could try to reproduce it
[20:58] <fde> MamboKurt: don't bother unless its still there next update
[20:58] <MamboKurt> fde: doesn't work: http://ge.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/e/evolution/evolution-common_2.25.91-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[20:58] <fde> MamboKurt: also, System > Administration > Software Sources ... change mirror to something faster maybe?
[20:58] <mvo> thanks, it should not show the red error in this case, that is just used when something on the local system is not ok
[20:59] <fde> MamboKurt: mvo: as was stated, the mirror just hasn't synced yet
[20:59] <MamboKurt> fde: switched to main server
[20:59] <fde> mvo: yes it should... because errors were encountered trying to update a package
[21:00] <MamboKurt> fde: but the other evolution packages where already .91
[21:00] <fde> MamboKurt: so they're in the process of syncing  :/
[21:00] <fde> MamboKurt: run sudo aptitude update in like an hour as was stated
[21:01] <MamboKurt> fde: 5h and evolution does not have all packages the same version?
[21:01] <MamboKurt> fde: i already switched
[21:01] <fde> MamboKurt: welcome to the world of beta distros
[21:01] <fde> If such things aren't satisfactory, go back to stable  :/
[21:01] <MamboKurt> fde: alpha :)
[21:02] <MamboKurt> fde: i crashed my system and i thought it was a good time to switch
[21:08] <tretle> is there a channel for packaging?
[21:09] <Pici> !newpackage
[21:10] <Pici> tretle: also, #ubuntu-motu
[21:10] <billybigrigger> anyone here use audacious?
[21:10] <billybigrigger> when i open an mp3 audacious loads but doesn't play the song, it loads in the playlist, pressing start does nothing
[21:10] <billybigrigger> is there another audio player like audacious around? vlc does the job, but looks ugly
[21:13] <Amaranth> nope, audacious is the only music player we have
[21:13] <Amaranth> the rest are somewhat broken music managers
[21:13] <Amaranth> well, they're basically music players that look like music managers but yeah
[21:14] <maco> billybigrigger: by which Amaranth means iTunes-y things
[21:14] <Amaranth> iTunes is still the best music player/manager in existence :P
[21:14] <MamboKurt> i have a small question. there is an update for ubuntu-desktop, but it would deinstall notification-daemon and install alsdorf. my question is: what is alsdorf and would it be good to update ubuntu-desktop?
[21:15]  * Amaranth wants Party Shuffle and live updating Smart Playlists
[21:15] <Amaranth> MamboKurt: alsdorf is the new notification-daemon from the Design Team
[21:15] <Amaranth> Black, translucent, no links or buttons allowed
[21:16] <MamboKurt> and it would be good to have it because it really kicks ass?
[21:16] <Amaranth> well, it looks pretty
[21:16] <MamboKurt> is it opengl?
[21:16] <Amaranth> no...
[21:16] <MamboKurt> because of translucency...
[21:17] <Amaranth> Oh, no
[21:17] <Amaranth> You can do translucent things without opengl, you're thinking of compiz
[21:17] <MamboKurt> isn't compiz opengl too?
[21:17] <Amaranth> compiz is a compositor (which is what allows you do to transparent things) that uses opengl
[21:17] <Amaranth> you can have a compositor that uses XRender (metacity) and still get translucent windows and shadows
[21:17] <MamboKurt> thats what i ment
[21:18] <MamboKurt> and xrender doesnt utilize opengl
[21:18] <MamboKurt> ?
[21:18] <Amaranth> and the app that uses translucent windows doesn't have to be OpenGL at all, it just has to use RGBA colors (mostly)
[21:18] <Amaranth> nope
[21:19] <Amaranth> XRender can be done completely in software although most video card drivers accelerate parts of it
[21:19] <Amaranth> But unless you have a sub-1Ghz processor even doing it in software should be fine
[21:19] <MamboKurt> this sounds good, but doesnt this make your cpu heat up like hell?
[21:19] <Amaranth> No, not really
[21:20] <Amaranth> And if you don't use a compositor the notification will just not have rounded corners or be translucent
[21:20] <MamboKurt> thanks for your patience. i will give it a trie
[21:20] <MamboKurt> try
[21:22] <SwedeMike> there has been a lot more breakage the past two weeks than the first month I ran jaunty, now my wireless is broken every few times I boot, the two latest kernel revisions -7 and -8 seem to be flakey when it comes to that
[21:23] <SwedeMike> I thought it would be more stable as we approached beta?
[21:24] <billybigrigger> Amaranth, maco figured out the audacious problem, was trying to use pulse
[21:25] <billybigrigger> can i ask a question thats probably been asked/discussed 1,000,000 times, but why is pulse audio inluded in ubuntu? imo its junk, and never works
[21:25] <billybigrigger> alsa has always worked for me, why try and change something that works?
[21:25] <Amaranth> SwedeMike: Feature Freeze is approaching, everything is being jammed in before the freeze
[21:25] <Amaranth> It then gets fixed afterward
[21:27] <RAOF> billybigrigger: Because pulseaudio allows things to work better.
[21:27] <billybigrigger> like what?
[21:27] <SwedeMike> Amaranth: check.
[21:27] <RAOF> In particular, hotplugging audio devices.
[21:27] <billybigrigger> i've never had anything work correctly with pulse
[21:27] <RAOF> billybigrigger: Then you haven't tried in the right way :)
[21:28] <billybigrigger> obviously not
[21:28] <billybigrigger> maybe it should setup properly out of the box
[21:28] <RAOF> As it's set up in Jaunty, it is.
[21:28] <MamboKurt> alsdorf just shows me some stupid window instead of an cool notification
[21:28] <Amaranth> Without pulseaudio when you plug in a USB headset you have to close all apps using audio and reconfigure them
[21:28] <billybigrigger> well i have to disable pulseaudio sounds in pidgin because it kept crashing pidgin when i send a message
[21:28] <Amaranth> Or at least close them, I think it may reconfigure automatically
[21:29] <Amaranth> With pulseaudio it just transfers audio to the headset on-the-fly
[21:29] <billybigrigger> well ill just stick to alsa
[21:29] <billybigrigger> pulseaudio is junk in my books
[21:30] <RAOF> It certainly has some problems.  But it can do some things that are really useful that alsa just can't.
[21:30] <maco> RAOF: well, alsa *can* ....via very manual means with lots of Black Magic
[21:31] <RAOF> maco: alsa can transparently switch physical devices under an application's nose?
[21:32] <maco> RAOF: dtchen said that most of what pulseaudio makes easy is possible otherwise, but only if you know the audio stack almost as well as he does :P
[21:32] <maco> (that's major paraphrasing)
[21:32] <RAOF> You can write a layer _above_ also which does that; phonon is (in part) an example of that layer.
[21:36] <fde> RAOF: Phonon and PulseAudio aren't even closely related... Phonon is an API providing media functionality to developers, it is more similar to Gstreamer
[21:36] <maco> he did say it's possible to to move a stream from one device to another while it's playing
[21:36] <maco> he did not say *how* and i think my eyes would've glazed over if he'd tried to explain it
[21:36] <fde> RAOF: Phonon can then use PulseAudio if you're retarded, but its better to just use dmix
[21:37] <RAOF> fde: The GStreamer-like part of phonon is boring.  The interesting part of Phonon is the "handle device hotplug" part, which _is_ like pulseaudio.
[21:37] <fde> Pulse is pretty much the worst thing to happen to Linux in the 12+ years I've been using it.
[21:37] <maco> fde: phonon-through-pulse will likely be what happens to a lot of us that have kubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop installed but are using KDE in the next few days
[21:37] <fde> RAOF: boring? it is the only interesting part
[21:38] <RAOF> fde: What's interesting about it?
[21:38] <maco> pulseaudio is being set to autospawn to get rid of all the weird timing stuff that happens when gnome starts and the login sounds play and if pulseaudio has/hasn't started different things happen
[21:38] <fde> RAOF: ease of development... it is a very powerful API... you can add media functionality to any Qt app with like 10 lines of code.
[21:38] <_VIM_> After getting the updates i get "greeter application crashed, attempting to use a different one" or something, what is this? was working fine till i updated it
[21:39] <RAOF> fde: That's not a huge amount more code than just using raw gstreamer.
[21:39] <ali1234> pulse is going to autospawn? but i like being able to pulseaudio -k to run software that hates pulse...
[21:40] <RAOF> fde: Until I tried KDE 4.2 I didn't see why phonon existed.  Once I saw that it handled device hotplug, it was obvious that it was more than just a gstreamer abstraction layer, and it made more sense.
[21:40] <Geek`N`Proud> RAOF: abstraction layer for Xine too :P
[21:40] <fde> RAOF: you're kidding? I'm not talking about just being able to play a sound or something btw... I'm talking about an entire media player in 10 lines of code......
[21:40] <Geek`N`Proud> it handles loads of multimedia-related stuff
[21:41] <Amaranth> RAOF: That's solid, actually
[21:41] <fde> RAOF: you sure? Pretty sure Solid does that
[21:41] <RAOF> fde: The transfer-of-running-streams-to-policy stuff?
[21:41] <Amaranth> RAOF: phonon is still useless other than talking to solid for you
[21:41] <RAOF> I take it back.  I don't understand why Phonon, then :)
[21:42] <fde> RAOF: the point of Phonon is the clean up the sound situation on KDE systems... now every KDE app just uses Phonon, and lets the user choose backend etc
[21:42] <ali1234> fde: "x in 10 lines of code" argument is stupid. i can code an entire media player in 1 line of shell script: mplayer $1
[21:42] <RAOF> fde: Contrast that with: "The point of GStreamer is to clean up the sound situation on KDE systems.  Now every KDE app uses just GStreamer"
[21:42] <Amaranth> fde: It actually only exists because they got burned with arts and were afraid gstreamer's ABI would change before KDE 5
[21:43] <RAOF> fde: I really don't see where 'woo!  You can drop in xine!' gains you a huge amount.
[21:43] <fde> ali1234: now embed that into your cool new web browser that consists of 100 lines of code in all (via webkit and phonon)
[21:43] <_VIM_> After getting the updates i get "greeter application crashed, attempting to use a different one" or something, what is this? was working fine till i updated it
[21:43] <Amaranth> fde: And you get a web browser that doesn't do history or bookmarks combined with a media player that doesn't do anything
[21:44] <fde> Amaranth: umm, not really... the discussions I read related more to the complexity of gstreamer, and the possibilities to do better... fwiw, I believe gstreamer was the first completed backend for phonon (bask when it was still kmm or whatever)
[21:45] <Amaranth> It was, yes
[21:45] <Amaranth> But they could have made a gstmm library or something
[21:45] <Amaranth> phonon exists to abstract the gst ABI out so they can switch to gst 0.12 or some other framework later if gst 0.10 goes away
[21:46] <fde> Amaranth: bad example... but still, it would be able to play that microsofts streaming protocol better than gstreamer currently does if you chose xine as the backend
[21:46] <Amaranth> Otherwise gst works on OS X and Windows and the Xine part was a side effect of creating Phonon the way they did, not something they planned
[21:47] <fde> Amaranth: well, in part... it also abstracts xine atm... and can be used for anything related really (still waiting on an mplayer backend)
[21:47] <ali1234> fde: did it ever occur to kde people that i might want to use a different backend in different programs?
[21:47] <ali1234> for example in web browser, i am more interested in the formats that commonly occur on webpages
[21:47] <RAOF> How about a different backend for each stream of a program!
[21:47] <Amaranth> Eh? You can't do that in GNOME either
[21:48] <ali1234> while in a video editor i want whatever backend works best with dv
[21:48] <fde> ali1234: so you think its fair to have users install 10 backends just because you can't decide as a developer which to use?
[21:48] <Amaranth> Your choices are gstreamer, gstreamer, or a non-GNOME app that probably uses gstreamer (except for gxine and mplayer)
[21:48] <ali1234> as a users i *have* to use all of them because they all have different strengths and weaknesses
[21:48] <Amaranth> ali1234: The solution is to make one of them not suck
[21:48] <RAOF> Miro still uses xine by default.  For Jaunty+1 it won't, though.
[21:48] <ali1234> lol
[21:48] <ali1234> Amaranth: which one though? ;)
[21:48] <fde> Amaranth: umm... there are currently 3 backends to phonon... gstreamer sucks still, so your real choices are xine or yaurt or whatever
[21:49] <Amaranth> ali1234: gstreamer, of course
[21:49] <fde> Amaranth: point of Phonon is that the app doesn't choose anymore for you... the devs just use phonon
[21:49] <Amaranth> fde: I haven't seen a file that doesn't play in gstreamer in a long time
[21:49] <RAOF> fde: To be fair, it's the gstreamer phonon backend that sucks, not gstreamer
[21:50] <Amaranth> There are still some problems with streaming media but mplayer doesn't handle most of those any better
[21:50] <RAOF> And this is one reason why Phonon is a bad idea: by introducing your abstraction layer, you introduce more bugs!@
[21:50] <fde> Amaranth: try an mms stream? try any codec newer than about 4 years
[21:50] <Amaranth> fde: What codec is newer than 4 years?
[21:50] <ali1234> if i ever want to play a video file i try mplayer first, then vlc. i don't even bother trying totem or whatever, it literally never works
[21:51] <fde> RAOF: Well, except that you now know where the bug is... and once you fix it once, everything automatically benefits
[21:51] <RAOF> ali1234: You're either trying an entirely separate set of a/v files than me, or haven't tried totem in ages.
[21:51] <Amaranth> I think it still has problems with subtitles but I don't watch anime so...
[21:52] <ali1234> totem is also far far slower than the others
[21:52] <fde> ali1234: you expect different results from mplayer and vlc? then you're doing it wrong... vlc uses libdvdcss and ffmpeg ... just get rid of that sludge and use the codecs in a better interface
[21:52] <Amaranth> fde: gstreamer uses libdvdcss and ffmpeg too
[21:52] <RAOF> fde: What?  That's entirely backward.  You now _don't_ know whether the bug is in gstreamer or in Phonon's gstreamer backend.
[21:53] <fde> ali1234: totem has a few backends available... try the xine one?
[21:53] <fde> Amaranth: gstreamer sucks
[21:53] <fde> RAOF: yes you do... its in the phonon backend if its a playback bug....
[21:53] <Amaranth> fde: Try using GNOME for a week instead of KDE and see if your problem is phonon or gstreamer
[21:54] <RAOF> fde: But what if the bug is in gstreamer?
[21:54] <Amaranth> I literally have not seen a problem with any files on my disk in over a year
[21:54] <Amaranth> I have seen a couple files vlc chokes on that totem-gstreamer handles fine though
[21:55] <fde> Amaranth: I have used Gnome for something like 3 years now... and am royally sick of the media stack here... I have tried KDE4 a few times, and it is much cleaner in this respect... I am likely going back to Arch soon, but I switched back to Ubuntu due to ext4 support not being around yet for Arch at that time
[21:56] <ali1234> totem cannot handle mpeg2-ts recorded by my mythtv box
[21:56] <fde> Amaranth: only issue I have with KDE is using Firefox and a KDE based media player... tends to lack plugins
[21:56] <Amaranth> Besides, despite any problems with codec support the gstreamer framework is technically superior compared to xine so...
[21:57] <fde> ali1234: gstreamer* ... like I said, 'sudo aptitude install totem-xine && sudo aptitude purge totem-gstreamer'
[21:57] <fde> ali1234: it isn't totems fault, totem is just a collection of pretty pictures and buttons
[21:57] <ali1234> xine is no better
[21:58] <fde> I'm just saying VLC doesn't do anything special... its just a crap frontend on top of the work done over at mplayer-hq
[21:58] <ali1234> gstreamer sucks, xine sucks, totem is ugly, the new qt gui of vlc is *very* ugly... mplayer is currently the best video player for linux
[21:58] <Amaranth> fde: and mplayer is a crap frontend on top of ffmpeg
[21:58] <Amaranth> and ffmpeg never does a damn release so every project is using a different version
[21:58] <RAOF> And wouldn't it be nice if ffmpeg wasn't user-hostile
[21:59] <Amaranth> so vlc is doing something special, it is using a different snapshot of ffmpeg
[21:59] <Amaranth> newer, older, whatever, it may not have a bug one of the other ones has
[21:59] <Skiessi> is libsamplerate staying at 0.1.4 for jaunty?
[21:59] <fde> Amaranth: mplayer is a frontend to the plethora of codecs I have around... of which ffmpeg happens to be one
[22:00] <Amaranth> fde: The only other thing it could be a frontend for is w32codecs
[22:00] <fde> Amaranth: and libdvdcss ... yes
[22:00] <Amaranth> And those aren't even needed and are really illegal so...
[22:00] <RAOF> libdvdcss not being in any way a codec, of course.
[22:00] <fde> How are they illegal? I was forced to buy them when I purchased a system that had Windows installed  :/
[22:01] <Amaranth> fde: You aren't allowed to use them outside of windows
[22:01] <RAOF> You don't have the right to make copies into RAM
[22:01] <Amaranth> fde: and a bunch of them aren't included with windows
[22:01] <Amaranth> RAOF: Actually US Copyright law has an exception for that
[22:01] <Amaranth> RAOF: You aussies might be screwed though :P
[22:02] <Amaranth> Essentially the exception says if the software is only useful being copied into RAM it isn't illegal
[22:02] <RAOF> Amaranth: Really?  The recent Blizzard-vs-Glider case suggested that the copy of WoW in RAM was infringing copyright once the user broke the EULA.
[22:02] <Amaranth> RAOF: Yeah well judges do tend to ignore the law
[22:02] <fde> Amaranth: anyway, I've been using them for like 12 years, and haven't been sued yet... I also didn't agree to the license terms, but I did pay for the software
[22:03] <RAOF> fde: If you didn't agree to the license terms, then you don't have a license to use them.
[22:03] <Amaranth> fde: If you pay for it but don't accept the agreement your only option is to return the software, not use it anyway
[22:03] <RAOF> You should ask for your money back ):
[22:03] <fde> RAOF: *shrug* then they shouldn't have left them on my system when Windows started up....
[22:03] <RAOF> By starting windows you've agreed to the license terms :)
[22:03] <Amaranth> fde: So you accepted the windows and/or OEM license agreement
[22:03] <fde> RAOF: I did actually, but it had been too long apparently
[22:04] <fde> Amaranth: pre-installed system... I was never prompted...
[22:05] <Amaranth> fde: You opened the box
[22:05] <fde> Amaranth: so?
[22:05] <Amaranth> ooh pepsi is going to use real sugar again
[22:05] <RAOF> By opening the box you agree to this EULA.
[22:05] <fde> Amaranth: If that covered it, why are there even EULA's and the like? If just using the software is enough, they shouldn't even bother creating them...
[22:05] <Amaranth> oops, wrong channel
[22:06] <RAOF> fde: Because they need to enumerate the rights that they're giving you.
[22:06] <fde> Why do they require user interaction if just turning the machine on means I'm obligated?
[22:06] <RAOF> Otherwise, it'd be copyright infringement.
[22:07]  * DanaG thinks it should be illegal to use ALL CAPS IN DOCUMENTS.
[22:07] <DanaG> If nothing else, they should use small caps.
[22:07] <fde> You can get your money back if you can provide evidence that you never agreed to the terms... so clearly it isn't required to sign them....
[22:08] <fde> RAOF: also, its not like its Microsofts to charge me... they license the stuff themselves
[22:08] <DanaG> random question: does anyone actually USE FreeDOS?
[22:08] <fde> DanaG: I have via dosbox for some old games?
[22:08] <RAOF> They license the patents; (at least some of) the code is theirs, I guess.
[22:08] <DanaG> freedos ≠ dosbox
[22:09] <ali1234> DanaG: i think one of the HD manufacturer's diagnosis tool comes on a disk image with freedos to boot. but i forgot which one
[22:10] <fde> DanaG: ahh, I meant dosemu
[22:10] <DanaG> Some BIOS update disk images use freedos.
[22:10] <DanaG> But that's not the same as "using" the OS, as people used to use it in the old days.
[22:10] <ali1234> maybe somebody out there is using it to run some legacy app
[22:11] <ali1234> i doubt anybody uses it as their main OS just because they love DOS so much. except perhaps the author.
[22:11] <maco> hah
[22:11] <fde> DanaG: shouldn't really matter afaik... I have heard of people updating their BIOS via dosemu
[22:12] <Amaranth> fde: Those guys are crazy
[22:13] <fde> Amaranth: indeed... lol... but afaik it worked
[22:36] <DanaG> Anyone else have notification bubbles suddenly replaced by actual dialog boxes?
[22:36] <DanaG> I'd call that a major regression.
[22:38] <DanaG> oh wait, that's just pidgin.
[22:38] <Geek`N`Proud> DanaG: Pidgin is on it's way out
[22:38] <DanaG> apparently if notification daemon isn't running, it switches to dialogs.
[22:38] <Geek`N`Proud> 9.10 will probably see Empathy as the default
[22:38] <DanaG> Ugh, say hello to unconfigurable things.
[22:39] <DanaG> And inability to share the log files with Windows Pidgin.
[22:39] <Amaranth> DanaG: Anything that uses buttons in notifications is being switched to dialogs
[22:39] <Geek`N`Proud> tofrodos can sort that Dana
[22:39] <Amaranth> and/or having the notifications removed
[22:39] <Geek`N`Proud> unix2dos will let you share logs
[22:39] <Geek`N`Proud> =]
[22:40] <DanaG> Ugh, dialogs suck -- they're ugly.
[22:40] <DanaG> It's not a DOS-Windows thing, it's a Pidgin-Empathy thing.
[22:40] <DanaG> I'd imagine Empathy does logging differently.
[22:42] <DanaG> Oh, and it appears in the top right... even though it's set to bottom right.
[22:42] <DanaG> Volume thingy also isn't working.
[22:42] <DanaG> Er, not displaying anything.
[22:42] <DanaG> ** (notify-osd:18474): CRITICAL **: load_icon: assertion `info' failed
[22:42] <DanaG> ** (notify-osd:18474): CRITICAL **: load_icon: assertion `info' failed
[22:42] <DanaG> ... and so on.
[22:43] <Geek`N`Proud> hmm that sucks
[22:44] <bardyr> Hey, i cant start the gnome greater application, is there a known bug? and fix??
[22:47] <DanaG> Oh, I hit the volume key... and this time I got an empty black rectangle.
[22:47] <DanaG> Thaaaaanks.
[22:48]  * DanaG wants the old notification daemon back!
[22:49] <bardyr> DanaG: yea
[22:49] <bardyr> DanaG: even trough i havent seen the new, but i will miss my buttons
[22:50] <Amaranth> DanaG: It was pushed in to make feature freeze, bug fixing comes later
[22:51] <DanaG> being ugly is not quite a bug, though.
[22:52] <DanaG> And what's with the fixed black color?  It ignores my color theme -- and clashes wildly.
[22:52]  * cwillu ponders the existence of a colour that clashes with black
[22:53]  * charlie-tca is sure there must be one?
[22:53] <DanaG> Well, check out my theme.
[22:54]  * cwillu is sure there isn't an opposite to black any more than there is an opposite to the origin of a graph
[22:54] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/Screenshot.png
[22:55] <DanaG> In case you're wondering... I used the color picker to grab a color from the wallpaper, for the primary color of the theme.
[22:56] <DanaG> Black clashes with that.
[23:04] <DanaG> Mmm, big empty black rounded rectangle.
[23:05] <nazgul> I'd like to read up how startup time was reduced in jaunty- it went down noticably! :) however I could not google up notes on what was done.
[23:05] <nazgul> can someone point me?
[23:08] <burnier> Hi, I wanted to install wicd from a deb and ended up removing the plamoid network manager so now I have no internet to install wicd dependencies or installing the plasmoid back... Anyone knows a quick solution?
[23:10] <nazgul> burnier: a)borrow a laptop that can connect, and let it act as a route. link your box to it with a LAN cable.
[23:11] <nazgul> b) download deb packages manually and put them into /var/cache/apt/archives
[23:16] <joumetal> nazgul: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/BootPerformance
[23:18] <fde> burnier: sudo ifup eth0 should give you terminal internet access again
[23:19] <nazgul> joumetal: thanks
[23:20] <fde> wait, that came out wrong... it should allow you to connect to the network via at least your terminal
[23:20] <fde> as apposed to internet access that can kill you