[13:00] <thorwil> dashua: i'm happy to see one of backgrounds used, but please add a reference ;)
[13:49] <dashua> thorwil: Added :)
[13:50] <thorwil> cool, ty
[13:50] <dashua> Np, sorry about that.
[13:52] <_MMA_> dashua: I like your theme, but I have 1 /general/ rant. :) Why are so many of the themes lately 1 step from monotone? :) And that drab light gray? :) I do think there are some limitations that tend to push us that way but we could do so much more. Even with existing tech.
[13:54] <dashua> I just tried a generic colorscheme.  Do you suggest something lighter? More vibrant?
[13:55] <_MMA_> dashua: Like I said, "general rant". I'm not suggesting a new design direction for you. :)
[13:57] <_MMA_> dashua: Though they get flack for being "slow" I'm going to look into a all pixmap theme. On modern systems (last 2 years) pixmap should be just fine.
[13:59] <darkmatter> lol... slow my butt. by the way. pixmap will run smooth as silk on old systems as well (like, p2 450 old). a few microseconds performance difference isn't 'slow'
[14:00] <_MMA_> darkmatter: You *always* had the uber-nerds complaining about the few "microseconds" ;)
[14:01] <_MMA_> I've never had issue myself.
[14:01] <dashua> I'm using almost all of the murrine SVN options currently available, absent rgba patches.
[14:02] <dashua> I'll try some different options and I'm always up for suggestions.
[14:02] <darkmatter> _MMA_: if by 'uber-nerds' you mean 'idiotic newbs with over-inflated and deluded opinions of themselves and the importance of their psychological defects' then I fully agree
[14:02] <dashua> I like murrine because it seems very fast to me and you can get a lot done with minimal code.
[14:04] <dashua> The hybrid, light / dark themes, are also very popular, but can be difficult to create.
[14:04] <_MMA_> dashua: Yeah, Murrine has been good that way. I just feel the only way to really do something different is with pixmap.
[14:04] <_MMA_> dashua: Yeah. I use Dust alot. Along with the Studio theme.
[14:04] <dashua> _MMA_: Yeah, for sure.  You're pretty much limited to the engine with Murrine.
[14:05] <dashua> I made Dust with Nodoka but it seems a little slow to me.  The murrine version is the one I use most.
[14:06] <dashua> I was trying to come up with a balance between glaringly bright to something more subdued and warm for a somewhat lighter theme.
[14:07] <_MMA_> dashua: I'm gonna try the new theme on my desktop with Breathe in a few mins. (gotta start some laundry) :)
[14:08] <darkmatter> of course, because application developers are complete idiots that have no common sense for how to PROPERLY use widgets, you also lose themability with a proper theme, as to properly theme the crap we call a toolkit basically requires application specific rc files for a lot of cases, as well as a few custom images etc. royal pita. so basically a consistent interface = mac themability (read 'none', at least not at an 'easy' level)
[14:08] <dashua> Nice.  Breathe is what's setting a majority of the warmth for me with the gtkrc bringing in the balance.
[14:09] <dashua> I guess it should be the other way around =/
[14:10] <dashua> darkmatter: Apparently, they are working these issues out with GNOME 3.0
[14:10] <_MMA_> darkmatter: You're just beating a dead horse there. I've had people send patches to upstreams to fix things we've found because of the dark Studio theme. I don't think 1 of them has been applied.
[14:10] <dashua> We'll see,
[14:10] <darkmatter> _MMA_: indeed
[14:14] <darkmatter> _MMA_: I've consistently themed my desktop before. it took about 2 megs of data and several .desktop edits to override the default gtkrc. Trust me, if you really want to see just how much gtk is abused try pixmap, as it's lacking the dirty hacks used to 'ignore' crappy coding decisions ;)
[14:16] <_MMA_> I'm sure I'll find out this year (later in the year) as I plan to do a new Studio theme in pixmap.
[14:23] <darkmatter> there's more than a few glaring (IMHO) issues within gnome itself, but the real problems start with third party apps (obviously) and since a ton of what the average distro ships is third party or distro specific, you tend to get 'eep' as an initial result with anything other than hacky engines. The point being, engines shouldn't _have_ hacks to work around crap. if an app (native gtk flavor). if a developer can't properly use the tool
[14:24] <darkmatter> there are exceptions of course. (non gtk apps trying to blend in)
[14:35] <thorwil> i guess it's a similar situation as with html/css. no browser and no theme engine should ever have started with including workarounds
[16:08] <Cimi> tretle: did you see macslow's surprise?
[16:09] <tretle> no
[16:09] <tretle> been waiting though
[16:09] <tretle> u?
[16:12] <Cimi> i'm on windows
[16:12] <Cimi> and I use fedora
[16:12] <tretle> well it hasnt hit jaunty's repos yet
[16:13] <tretle> interested to see what its liek
[16:13] <tretle> liek - like
[16:16] <tretle> think its part of ubuntu-desktop which is being held back for some reason
[16:36] <tretle> cimi - just forced the installation of ubuntu-desktop and the new notifications work, looks pretty.. tested with rhythmbox thus far
[16:41] <tretle> though banshee is not compatible with the new notifications
[17:28] <dashua> https://dl-web.getdropbox.com/get/Photos/Screenshot.png?w=4f4fb216
[17:29] <dashua> Pretty cool
[17:29] <_MMA_> 403
[17:29] <dashua> Bah
[17:32] <dashua> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_1.1234978299.png
[17:32] <dashua> Working sporadically though
[17:32] <dashua> Audio notifications work, nothing with wifi
[17:33] <_MMA_> Nice. The changes should hit Studio in the next day or so.
[17:35] <dashua> i just installed sudo apt-get install evolution-indicator indicator-applet alsdorf libgnomepanel2.24-cil indicator-messages
[17:35] <dashua> Seemed to work
[17:35] <dashua> I'm running compiz from git so ubuntu-desktop is no good, but that'll work fine
[19:27] <_MMA_> dashua: Damn. The power option icons are not applied in the same way they used to be. :(
[19:28] <dashua> Yeah, I just noticed
[19:28] <dashua> Pulled and rebuilt and nothing
[19:28] <_MMA_> No no. I didnt upload yet.
[19:28] <_MMA_> Just working locally.
[19:28] <dashua> Oh
[19:28] <dashua> Gotcha
[19:29] <dashua> I was trying to view the changes in launchpad, but Epiphany kept crashing on me
[19:29] <_MMA_> dashua: If you look at the Human theme for instance, in apps, they have images for the options but they arent used.
[19:30] <dashua> Yeah, I'm looking through .33 now
[19:31] <_MMA_> And the "switch users" image comes from "system-users". Whicj is used for many things where our button would look weird.
[19:32] <_MMA_> "Hibernate" uses a drive icon.
[19:32] <dashua> These look new or were never used
[19:32] <dashua> Notification icons
[19:32] <dashua> Wireless
[19:32] <dashua> Maybe that's for the new system
[19:34] <_MMA_> Grab rev.12 of debian-packaging. It's according to FD guidelines but I'm gonna look into what I can do to make things consistent on the dialogs. "Reboot" uses the "Refresh" icon for instance.
[19:35] <_MMA_> If I could figure out if they are using the actual image or a symlink I might be able to work something out. Though, anything that uses it might be screwed.
[19:37] <dashua> Kk
[19:40] <_MMA_> dashua: I'm also getting a Intrepid/Jaunty inconsistency. The logout/shutdown icons show in the menu and on the dialogs. In Jaunty they only show in the menu.
[19:41] <_MMA_> dashua: This /could/ be a difference in the 'icon-naming-utils' package.
[19:42] <dashua> Should FUSA have a log out icon or shut down?
[19:43] <dashua> They all seem to have taken.
[19:43] <_MMA_> huh?
[19:43] <_MMA_> FUSA?
[19:43] <dashua> Fast User Switcher Applet
[19:43] <dashua> In the upper right corner
[19:43] <_MMA_> Oh. I don't have that. I dont know. Screenshot?
[19:44] <dashua> Sure, it's installed by default
[19:44] <dashua> One sec
[19:45] <_MMA_> Not on Studio, so I never see it.
[19:45] <dashua> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_2.1234986323.png
[19:45] <_MMA_> ATM, the set only uses links generated but the naming-utils package.
[19:46] <_MMA_> dashua: The applet at the far right?
[19:46] <dashua> Yeah
[19:46] <_MMA_> Seems fine to me.Should it be something else?
[19:47] <dashua> It was the shut down icon there before
[19:47] <dashua> Red
[19:47] <dashua> Maybe they changed something around
[19:47] <dashua> For the applet
[19:47] <_MMA_> Since I'm doing nothing outside of FD spec, it comes down to the app.
[19:47]  * _MMA_ shrugs.
[19:48] <_MMA_> And I can see it using the Logout image there. Make sense.
[19:48] <dashua> Yeah, that's fine
[19:49] <_MMA_> Since you're not shutting down with it right?
[19:49] <dashua> Human's log out was the red icon
[19:49] <dashua> No
[19:49] <_MMA_> So what about the dialogs?
[19:50] <_MMA_> Do the icons appear on them?
[19:50] <dashua> It's fine.  I thought something was switched.
[19:51] <_MMA_> I'm gonna have to pull it and build on my laptop.
[19:51] <dashua> Logout dialog is still the green running man
[19:51] <dashua> Shutdown is there, no suspend
[19:51] <dashua> Hibernate looks pixellated
[19:51] <_MMA_> Yeah see. Its the new image in Intrepid. Somethings changed.
[19:52] <dashua> Ah.
[19:53] <_MMA_> I wonder how I can figure out what images the apps are referencing short of pulling the source.
[19:53] <_MMA_> (and without messin' with the set)
[19:54] <dashua> These dialogs are not complete on Jaunty it seems.  They are not pulling in the theme.
[19:55] <_MMA_> dashua: If you look, I actually can't apply *any* theme to them.
[19:55] <_MMA_> Outside of GNOME that is.
[19:56] <dashua> Yeah, it's not even taking Clearlooks
[19:56] <dashua> Think it still needs some work
[19:57] <dashua> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-Shut_Down_the_Computer.png
[19:58] <_MMA_> dashua: Yep. Ok. Seems like something out of my control.
[19:58] <dashua> Yeah, for now until this is fixed.
[19:58] <dashua> I haven't checked for a bug report yet.
[19:58] <_MMA_> Man that makes me bummed.
[19:59] <_MMA_> Ok. Well, time to update the wiki.
[20:00] <dashua> Power option icons look good, better on lighter theme actually
[20:00] <dashua> You missed the outline on darker themes
[20:00] <dashua> miss*
[20:02] <_MMA_> Man that fade between wallpaper changes needs to be set faster.
[20:03] <dashua> It's pretty fast, about a second
[20:04] <savvas> looks good here as well
[20:05] <_MMA_> dashua: Since it's CPU-driven, maybe it's me. Though, I never thought I'd see the day when a 1.3ghz CPU wasn't enough to gracefully fade a wallpaper.
[20:06] <_MMA_> It kinda steps here.
[20:06] <dashua> Ha yeah.
[20:06] <_MMA_> tick, tick, tick.
[20:07] <dashua> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_5.1234987608.png
[20:07] <dashua> That is really nice.
[20:07] <_MMA_> Not too shabby. :)
[20:08] <lucazade> dashua how do you get that notification style?
[20:09] <dashua> Just landed in Jaunty.
[20:09] <lucazade> :) tnx
[20:09] <dashua> It's their new system.
[20:09] <lucazade> let me update jaunty ..
[20:19] <lucazade> alsdorf what a name!
[20:20] <_MMA_> :P
[20:20] <dashua> It's going to change to notify-osd, alsdorf look like docs
[20:20] <dashua> I think
[20:21] <dashua> Evolution just worked, nice
[20:21] <lucazade> seems pretty.. i'm using jaunty under vbox
[20:23] <dashua> Yeah, it's pretty.
[20:29] <lucazade> compiled alsdorf on intrepid.. nice with composite activated
[20:30] <_MMA_> Compiz *still* doesn't work here on Intel.
[20:33] <Cimi> tretle: are the notifications with buttons as before or the thing posted by shuttleworth?
[20:34] <lucazade> the one posted by mark
[20:35] <lucazade> only passive, no interaction
[20:38] <Cimi> another reason not to install ubuntu :)
[20:39] <lucazade> far better than notification daemon, if it was a difficult thing
[20:39] <tretle> tut tut tut :D
[20:39] <Cimi> lucazade: i prefer the notification daemon
[20:39] <tretle> I personally prefer how android handles notifications
[20:39] <lucazade> '80 style
[20:39] <Cimi> buttons are important and they are used in a lot of ways
[20:40] <Cimi> they could have themed notification-daemon instead rewriting their usage
[20:41] <Cimi> this patch will be ubuntu-only since it doesn't work on a lot of applications (packagekit,  system updaters, rhythmbox, banshee, lastfm, gnome-do...<)
[20:41] <tretle> it will be gone in gnome 3.0 anyway most likely
[20:41] <tretle> cimi it works on rhythmbox
[20:41] <tretle> and gnome do
[20:41] <tretle> that I have tested
[20:41] <Cimi> yes, but how about action buttons?
[20:41] <tretle> there are none
[20:42] <Cimi> when "a new plugin is avaible, upgrade now"
[20:42] <Cimi> there are
[20:42] <Cimi> maybe on ubuntu they were removed
[20:42] <tretle> not for rhythmbox
[20:42] <Cimi> that's why I think those notifications are not good
[20:42] <_MMA_> In the end, Celeste hit the nail on the head. Too bad well-though-out, educated analysis often falls on deaf ears around here. http://weblog.obso1337.org/2009/response-to-the-proposed-canonical-notification-system/
[20:42] <Cimi> tretle: iirc rhythmbox has "skip this song"
[20:43] <tretle> and as for do the notifications I have seen thus far, twitter plugin etc all seem to work
[20:43] <tretle> cimi I think your thinking of banshee, I never noticed buttons on the rhythmbox notifications
[20:43] <Cimi> ok
[20:43] <Cimi> I'm sure packagekit has
[20:43] <tretle> though they might have been patched like you say
[20:43] <Cimi> and maybe banshee or lastfm
[20:44] <Cimi> i have "skip this song"
[20:44] <Cimi> or similar
[20:44] <lucazade> i like a lot the translucency effect, really useful during work
[20:44] <tretle> ubuntu doesnt currently use packagekit as default in jaunty
[20:44] <Cimi> tretle: this is not a reason to break it
[20:44] <tretle> sometimes things need a breaking
[20:44] <tretle> :D
[20:45] <tretle> though I agree in this case it didnt need a breaking
[20:45] <tretle> but its still nice
[20:45] <tretle> :D
[20:46] <Cimi> tretle: they could have themed the previous system
[20:46] <Cimi> I just don't understand why we should have those useless blobs
[20:46] <tretle> useless blobs?
[20:46] <Cimi> yeah
[20:47] <tretle> to notify you i presume
[20:47] <Cimi> if they don't have actions, why we should have a desktop full of those blobs?
[20:47] <Cimi> anyway
[20:47] <tretle> which was the original intent of the previous system before it was butchered
[20:47] <Cimi> cimi /stops rant
[20:47] <lucazade> :)
[20:48] <tretle> much like the notification tray, instead of just fixing the tasks applet
[20:48] <tretle> :D
[20:50] <Cimi> screenshot anyway?
[20:50] <lucazade> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_5.1234987608.png
[20:51] <tretle> hmmm... didnt notice it now handles the sound too
[20:52] <tretle> lucazade - have you been able to have multiple notifications stacked like in marks blog post?
[20:53] <Cimi> no shadows?
[20:53] <lucazade> no, i tried with the mail notification
[20:53] <lucazade> only one
[20:53] <Cimi> i don't like them without the shadows
[20:56] <lucazade> http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/695/schermatamx5.png
[20:57] <lucazade> 1°C .. how is cold!!
[21:15] <lucazade> i can't figure out how alsdorf autostart in the session
[21:30] <tretle> stacking notifications also seems to work
[21:30] <tretle> http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9537/screenshotrg5.png
[22:15] <Cimi>  			Johan Says: 						
[22:15] <Cimi> 			February 18th, 2009 at 11:05 pm   			The new notifications look nice. But I’m, well, less than enthusiastic, about notifications with actions having turned into ordinary dialog boxes that have to be dismissed manually.   		
[22:16] <Cimi> oh that's is really bad
[22:16] <Cimi> dialogs as in windows xp
[22:18] <tretle> thats a gtk# bug
[22:19] <tretle> your very judgmental of others work when u haven't even used it yet
[22:20] <tretle> by the way did u go to the gtk hackfest?
[22:23] <Cimi> tretle: it's not a gtk bug
[22:23] <Cimi> tretle: the new notifications don't handle actions
[22:24] <Cimi> so they translate action notifications into dialogs
[22:25] <tretle> boo hoo
[22:25] <tretle> :)
[22:26] <tretle> actions were overused and as a result were taken out
[22:27] <_MMA_> I can cay this. we're gonna remove it from Ubuntu Studio. I already see sever areas where I don't like it.
[22:34] <tretle> :(
[22:34] <tretle> see what uv done cimi
[22:34] <tretle> :D
[22:34] <tretle> lol
[22:36] <Cimi> I'm proud of it
[22:36] <tretle> why?
[22:37] <Cimi> cause I don't like those notifications
[22:38] <_MMA_> Trust me. Cimi doesn't influence me at all.
[22:38] <_MMA_> ;)
[22:38] <Cimi> _MMA_: grrr