/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/02/18/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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liwI guess we're about to start, so... hi16:29
robbiewhi16:29
robbiew:)16:29
* mvo__ waves16:29
TheMusoHey folks.16:30
* robbiew just realized there's a meeting here in 30min...so short meeting today :)16:30
cjwatsonafternoon16:30
evandhi-ya16:30
* slangasek waves16:30
robbiew#startmeeting16:30
MootBotMeeting started at 10:30. The chair is robbiew.16:30
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:30
robbiewsorry for not sending out an agenda16:30
TheMusonp16:31
robbiewbeen trying to muddle through the email and action items from the past two sprints16:31
robbiewI'm thinking with FF tomorrow, we can probably go around the "room"16:31
robbiewto see if anyone has any issues16:31
robbiewor concerncs16:31
robbiewconcerns16:32
robbiewliw: does computer janitor look good?16:32
liwrobbiew, not entirely -- I am not sure I will get the UI changes done before FF :( (I've spent most of today fighting my laptop, but that's not an excuse, I should've done that UI changes much earlier)16:32
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liwrobbiew, other than that, c-j is looking reasonably good, we're preparing c-j and update-manager uploads with mvo for tonight16:33
robbiewliw: okay, thanks.  will c-j be installed automatically in Jaunty?16:33
robbiewie, by default16:34
liwrobbiew, nope; the ubuntu-desktop mailing list vetoed that16:34
robbiewhmm...ok16:34
robbiewthat's unfortunate16:34
cjwatsoneek, first I heard of that16:34
robbiewbut not in our control16:34
cjwatsonhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2009-February/001951.html16:34
robbiewwhen did the "veto" occur?16:34
cjwatsonthat doesn't seem to be as strong as a veto16:35
liwcjwatson, should I have escalated it to you after pitti was negative?16:35
cjwatsonprobably not necessary, I was just a bit surprised16:35
liwcjwatson, hmm, I asked pitti further questions on irc, and didn't get a sense of a possibility of a change to a positive result... perhaps I should've pushed harder16:36
cjwatsonif it's part of update-manager, then perhaps the facility can be on the system but not exposed in the UI by default, and that would make it easy to run after upgrades16:36
robbiewcjwatson: +116:36
liwthe plugin mechanism is going to be in u-m tonight, and some of the plugins will be shared; the c-j ui and some other plugins will be in a different package, and not installed by default16:37
mvo__isn't it a tool that should be run in the middle of the life-cycle of distro use? I mean, update-manager tries to tidy up during the upgrade16:37
robbiewliw: so will it be used as Martin suggested in u-m?16:37
cjwatsonbut I agree with Lars that not all of this is going to make sense purely after upgrades16:37
cjwatsonliw: what date was the IRC discussion, so I can go back and review the logs?16:37
liwcjwatson, let me grep16:38
robbiewok...moving on16:39
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robbiewevand: any concerns/issues/problems/complaints..etc :)16:39
robbiewshould I take silence as a "no"?16:40
evandrobbiew: No really major concerns or issues.  The oem ID stuff is basically done, I just need to rip out the old code.  jaunty-ubiquity-usability is mostly done there's just a few minor items that I might be able to knock off, and I've been keen to get some last minute suggestions from mpt in.  The slideshow work was deferred as Julian's team didn't have time for it.16:40
robbiewcool16:41
robbiewthnx16:41
robbiewslideshow work deferred yet again...:(16:41
evandI'm also hoping to get one more usb-creator upload in, then beg for a freeze exception later in the week for add/remove programs functionality in it that I almost have done16:41
evandindeed :(16:41
robbiewat least it's not our fault ;)16:41
robbiewheh...ok16:41
evandbut Julian is pushing hard to get time for it, as far as I could tell from our sprint conversation16:41
robbiewevand: ok, so I guess we'll put in on the plate for 9.1016:42
evandgreat16:42
robbiewcjwatson: I have the updates from you...anything you want to add?16:42
cjwatsonright, you have it by mail, but for the record16:43
cjwatsonmy biggest concern from last week was manual package selection in the installer; that should now be done modulo bugs, as per mail to ubuntu-devel@16:43
cjwatsonthere are still a couple of small things that I want to hoover up, but am being slightly impeded by local infrastructure (mirror run ran out of disk last night and is taking a while to fix itself up)16:43
robbiewdoh!16:44
robbiewok16:44
cjwatsonthose are task selection in oem-config, and a password strength checker in the installer16:44
cjwatsonbut I have code written for those and just need to test16:44
robbiewok16:44
robbiewdoko: python 2.6/3.0 work looking good?16:45
robbiewok..16:46
robbiewwill follow up on that later16:46
robbiewmvo: any concerns?16:46
mvostuff looks good, the computer-janitor merge is the biggest outstand issue16:47
mvothe not-automatic branch changes that I talked about at the sprint with slangasek and cjwatson will not make it :/16:47
mvo(we do not have a "propper" spec for it, just discussed it informally)16:48
* robbiew doesn't even recall hearing about it 16:48
mvo /end16:48
mvo:)16:48
dokorobbiew: it does look ok, but I won't upload it today. The rebuilding will definietely take longer than until Thursday.16:48
slangasekrobbiew: that's about letting users have -proposed enabled but not automatically pulling in everything from proposed by default16:49
slangasek(and -backports)16:49
robbiewslangasek: ah...ok, thanks16:49
robbiewdoko: so when do you expect to upload?16:49
mvothe remaining problem is that apt is not clever (at all) when its about resolving dependencies from not-automatic source (i.e. it does not resolve them :/16:49
dokotonight, or tomorrow morning16:49
robbiewmvo: ok16:50
robbiewdoko: ah, ok..thanks!16:50
robbiewjames_w: still around?16:50
robbiewI know he had to skoot to the airport....16:50
robbiewTheMuso: I know you don't have any "features", but how is dmraid/accessibility/audio looking...any concerns?16:51
TheMusoNo concerns, thers a chance I may have dmraid on the live CD, which users have been asking for, but I am not phased one way or the other if it makes it or not. Dmraid and ubiquity seem to behaving together, the issue currently is whether we activate arrays by default, and if not, where do we ask the question. Atm I am working on not activating by default, and asking at the usplash stage of live CD bootup.16:52
TheMusoPulseaudio and alsa are in "pull fixes from git" mode, and should stay that way till release as bugs come up.16:53
TheMusoAccessibility works again for only-ubiquity mode, which I am pleased about, as well as for the live CD.16:53
robbiewgreat..thanks for the update16:53
TheMusoStill waiting on portaudio19 to be completely transitioned from universe, but everything shyould be in place for that.16:54
TheMusoSince espeak + alsa works somewhat nicer, especially now that portaudio19 has a patch to better work with pulseaudio.16:54
TheMusoOnce that change is made, I can remove hacks in gnome-speech to make espeak work via pulseaudio.16:54
robbiewTheMuso: ok16:55
robbiewslangasek: last 5min for you :) (I know Keybuk's status all too well)16:55
Keybuk*must*boot*faster*16:56
Keybukthough I should probably ask slangasek about a standing feature freeze exception for boot performance work16:56
slangasekstill trying to get the grub2 spec in some semblance of order, unfortunately; the good news is that most of the design is in place (AIUI grub-installer can already be forced to install grub2, which is what we want), and most of the rest is really bugfixes that don't need excepted16:57
slangasekshould have the spec available for approval within the hour - was going to have it yesterday, but lost a couple hours of draft when my laptop decided not to resume :(16:57
robbiewslangasek: ok..16:57
robbiewouch16:57
robbiewdid you bug the kernel guys? :)16:57
slangasekno, there was nothing debuggable16:58
robbiewah..damn16:58
robbiewok16:58
slangasekanyway, hotkey stuff is looking good - no sweeping changes to make there16:58
slangasekand samba got a new upstream version drop earlier this week; openldap should have the same yet today, I think16:59
slangasekthat's all from me16:59
* mvo expects compiz 0.8 this week too16:59
robbiewmvo: is it faster? :P16:59
robbiewjoking16:59
mvoheh :)16:59
Keybukseriously16:59
Keybukcompiz takes a third of the boot chart now :)17:00
robbiewslangasek: is the power management work FF dependent?...is it still going to make this release?17:00
mvoKeybuk: I'm happy (well, maybe not happy, but..) to look into this after FF17:00
Keybukmvo: I shall give you a hand17:00
cjwatsonoh, I missed one thing, I think I might be able to land LVM support in Kickstart17:01
cjwatson(sorry to interrupt) that was off-spec but a lot of people have asked for it17:01
slangasekrobbiew: AFAIK the actionable power management cleanup is "spot the bits that aren't used and chop them off" - there's a mailing list discussion about powernowd, which if we decide we can drop that, I think warrants a freeze exception17:01
robbiewcjwatson: ha! cool17:01
robbiewslangasek: ok...sounds good17:01
slangasek(freeze exception> because it makes the CDs smaller! Whoo!)17:01
robbiewlol17:01
Keybukslangasek: we should be able to drop that now17:02
KeybukTim merged my kernel patches17:02
robbiewok...I think we're going into another meeting timeslot17:02
Keybukso all the governors and drivers are just compiled into the kernel (as of 8.24) and the kernel will pick one17:02
slangasekKeybuk: are we confident to make the call that powernowd isn't needed as a fallback?17:02
Keybukwell s/now/when 8.24 is uploaded/17:02
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Keybukslangasek: powernowd can't do anything without a scaling driver17:02
Keybukso I'm not sure what kind of fallback you're thinking of ;)17:02
robbiew#endmeeting17:02
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:02.17:02
henothanks robbiew17:03
mvothanks!17:03
evandthanks!17:03
TheMusothanks17:03
slangasekKeybuk: the one where 'ondemand' doesn't work, which is the fallback set up in the init script?17:03
liwthanks17:03
robbiewheno: sorry about that17:03
slangasekthanks all :)17:03
henoPermit me to transition with a reference to http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ubuntu-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html ;)17:03
robbiewheh17:03
henoWe've made to for you guys, please use it! :)17:04
cjwatsonincentive for me to unassign more of the bugs that have been assigned to me since we moved from bugzilla ;-)17:04
henocjwatson: absolutely17:04
henothese lists are only useful if they are realistic17:05
* heno waves to the QA team17:05
* ara waves17:05
henoeveryone ready?17:05
* cgregan waves17:05
bdmurrayaye!17:05
pedro_hey hey17:06
fader_Yo17:06
jcozensHi.17:06
sbeattiehey17:06
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cr3ready red rooster17:06
* ogasawara waves17:07
henoschwuk, davmor2: meeting ping17:07
heno#startmeeting17:07
MootBotMeeting started at 11:07. The chair is heno.17:07
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:07
davmor2hello17:07
henoWelcome all!17:07
henoagenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings17:07
schwukheno: sorry - was on phone17:08
heno[TOPIC] Monday 23rd, new features testing day17:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Monday 23rd, new features testing day17:08
arathat's mine17:08
araNext Monday we are having a new testing day17:08
araWe will test some new features for Jaunty, now that we are reaching FF17:09
arahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/2009022317:09
araWe are going to test screen-profiles, LVM partitions in the debian installer and netbook usb images17:09
henoI see it's been well-advertised on planet already17:09
pedro_\o/17:10
cr3hm, I should be adding automated lvm testing17:10
henoschwuk, cr3: we should test the new checkbox features too17:10
araso, please, if you want to find cool new bugs, join us next Monday17:11
cr3ara: can I add Checkbox to your wiki page?17:11
henocan we get those cases added to http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/ as we go along too?17:11
aracr3, heno: could we test checkbox the following Monday?17:11
davmor2meh17:11
henoI guess peoole will be doing some free form testing, but it would be good to capture that17:12
cr3hm, maybe Checkbox should have tests for itself :)17:12
araheno: sure17:12
henoara: following Monday> I'm happy with that17:12
araheno: I could add to the wiki page that people willing to contribute to the testcases page are more than welcome17:13
davmor2Yes after main testing for a5 sound good17:13
henoUnfortunately I'm away on Monday (and this Friday)17:13
araUnfortunately? you should be glad!17:13
henoara: that's great, thanks17:13
henoara: but I'll miss the testing day! ;)17:14
heno[TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights17:14
MootBotNew Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights17:14
pedro_I've add that17:14
pedro_Last Thursday we had the new bugs without a package hug day https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/2009021217:15
pedro_we had a good participation from the community, thanks everybody!17:15
pedro_and specially thanks to mangilimic who did a lot of work during that hug day17:15
pedro_and to mrkanister for creating the page17:16
pedro_both folks are truly rockstars ;-)17:16
heno\o/17:16
pedro_and tomorrow we have the Network Manager Applet hug day https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090219 so don't miss it17:16
pedro_mangilimic already started to do some work17:16
davmor2:)17:17
bdmurrayI stuck some bugs with patches in there too17:17
bdmurrayor a section with them17:17
henobdmurray, pedro_: is asac aware of those?17:18
pedro_bdmurray: great!, should we put that as a recommendation to the bug day lists?17:18
heno(he is now I guess)17:18
bdmurraypedro_: I think so yes17:18
pedro_bdmurray: perfect i'll edit the wiki page then17:18
henoHave we decided on a topic for next week17:19
pedro_heno: he's always around in #ubuntu-bugs  ;-)17:19
bdmurraythere's a --patch option for bugnumbers so its trivial to add them17:19
henopedro_ is away next week17:19
pedro_oh that, I'm away next week17:19
henopedro_: ok, cool17:19
heno(about him being in #u-b)17:20
pedro_and there's supposed to be an apport-failed-retrace hug day17:20
bdmurraypedro_: that's a tag right?17:20
pedro_bdmurray: correct, but maybe the triagers are going to need more help looking at those bugs17:21
bdmurraywon't a fair number of them be private?17:21
pedro_i don't know how many people know how to read backtraces and so on17:22
davmor2bdmurray: if that's the case won't the only people with access be bug-control anyway?17:22
pedro_bdmurray: yes, i was thinking in doing some pre triage, for marking them as public17:23
pedro_not all, but probably a ~10017:23
henopersia: you've held a class on reading traces AFAIR - could you be available for a bug day like this?17:23
* persia reads context17:24
bdmurraylooking at it there are probably enough public ones17:24
persiaCould it be a Monday?17:24
henoThe alternative is to run a server bug day - they have requested we do one17:24
bdmurrayheno: I don't think they have any reference material for us yet17:25
persiaIf so, I'd even be willing to do two stack reading sessions, 12 hours apart to help people use those bugs.17:25
pedro_heno: regarding that i've contacted mathiaz and i'm waiting for his response17:25
henopersia: we've got a good rythm of running them on Thursdays and testing days on Mondays17:25
henobdmurray, pedro_: ok17:26
pedro_should we go for the other target then? the flashplugin-nonfree product17:26
pedro_that's the next one on the list17:27
persiaThursday is much less good for me: I can be around some, but could probably only do one session.17:27
bdmurrayIf the retrace failed what are the possible courses of action?17:27
henopersia: ok, thanks. We could refer to logs of your previous sessions too17:27
persiabdmurray, If the retrace failed, it's usually mostly hopeless, although if someone can get a similar environment, they can run apport-retrace locally and sometimes recover.17:29
bdmurrayRight, in which I'm not sure how much instruction is needed17:29
henopedro_: your call - looks like either option will be fine17:29
henoin any case - can we get some support from others to be around on that day - bdmurray, ogasawara, sbeattie, fader?17:30
ogasawarayup, I'll be around17:31
bdmurraythe 26th? yes17:31
sbeattieI'll be around as well.17:31
faderI'll be here17:31
henook great :)17:31
pedro_heno: ok let's stick with the schedule then and go for the apport-failed-retracer one ;-)17:31
henosettled :)17:32
heno[TOPIC] Checkbox PPA - schwuk17:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Checkbox PPA - schwuk17:32
schwukWe have checkbox PPA now:17:32
davmor2Short and to the point nice :)17:33
schwukhttps://launchpad.net/~checkbox-dev/+archive/ppa17:33
henofeaturing the suspend-resume test script17:33
heno(and other cool changes :)17:33
schwukThe 0.5 package is in Jaunty, but we're going to use the PPA to publish development/testing versions between releases.17:34
araschwuk: is 0.5 the final release in Jaunty?17:34
schwukThere won't be much difference between the packages in there and Jaunty right now (apart from the suspend-resume script), but after FeatureFreeze we'll be using the PPA to get new features tested.17:35
davmor2schwuk: will this be more for testing and development than general usage for joe public?17:35
schwukara: 0.6 will be the final release.17:35
schwuk(for FF)17:35
schwukdavmor2: Depends. We have Intrepid and Hardy packages in there for 0.5, so that might of use by Joe Public.17:35
davmor2okay cool17:36
cr3ara: you'll be pleased to know I'll be pushing policykit support at the finishing line for ff17:36
schwuk0.6 will have a number of new features :)17:36
aracr3: \o/17:36
henogreat, thanks schwuk, cr317:37
schwukBut whether you're using Jaunty or not, please try out the packages in the PPA and give us some feedback.17:37
schwukThanks heno.17:37
heno[TOPIC] Launchpad Greasemonkey - prefilled descriptions?17:37
MootBotNew Topic:  Launchpad Greasemonkey - prefilled descriptions?17:37
davmor2cr3: does checkbox have a bluetooth test?  Cause bluetooth has been really sucky since intrepid17:37
cr3davmor2: nope, let me check if there's already a bug for that17:38
bdmurrayHi, so I wrote a new greasemonkey script for the OEM team that prefills the bug description.  You can see a screenshot at http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/greasemonkey/prefilled-description.png.17:39
bdmurrayAnyway, I wonder if this would be useful for Ubuntu too.  I'm not quite sure the people using the greasemonkey scripts are the same people who need the description prefilled.17:39
sbeattiebdmurray: nice.17:39
henowhere are the canned texts stored?17:40
cr3davmor2: created bug #33113217:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 331132 in checkbox "checkbox should include a bluetooth test" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33113217:40
bdmurrayIn the script itself.17:40
arabdmurray, sbeattie: btw, thanks for the update on the firefox plugin: neat!17:41
bdmurrayara: thanks, it was a lot of fun17:42
bdmurrayI guess it can't hurt to have the prefilled description script in the bzr tree - does the prefilled description seem reasonable?17:43
henothe best would be if casual bug filers got that template17:44
henois that too much to ask of the LP team?17:44
davmor2heno: is there a lp bug about it?17:45
bdmurrayits worth a shot I don't think there is a bug about it17:45
henoat least for bus without a package ...17:46
henobdmurray: can you file one?17:46
bdmurrayheno: of course17:46
henoThe template seems fine, fwiw17:46
henobut getting it to the right audience is indeed the trick17:46
bdmurraythat's all I had about that17:48
henobdmurray: this is not in firefox-launchpad-plugin right, but in the greasemonkey collection?17:49
henoin qa-tools17:49
bdmurrayheno: well, it's in launchpad-gm-scripts but yes not in the plugin17:49
henook, thanks bdmurray17:50
henoAOB?17:50
davmor2Anyone got pcmcia card and slot, is it hot pluggable or not?17:51
faderdavmor2: I know they're supposed to be hot-pluggable, but I don't have a card to test17:51
davmor2fader: that's the problem I have here :(17:52
henothat reminds me - http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com is looking in good shape now! thanks davmor2, fader and schwuk!17:52
sbeattiedavmor2: what do you need tested.17:52
henodavmor2: I might have some I can send you17:52
henoold modems and such17:52
davmor2heno: I don't have a lappy with pcmcia17:53
henooh, ok17:53
sbeattiedavmor2: I've got both; I could even send you a pci->pcmcia bridge. :-)17:53
faderdavmor2: I have an older laptop with two pcmcia slots17:53
davmor2sbeattie: I just need to know what happens when you add the device is it auto reckonised and used automatically or do you have to tinker to get it up17:54
faderI actually planned to order a wifi card for it... this gives me an excuse :)17:54
sbeattiedavmor2: it's generally auto-recognized and used automatically.17:55
davmor2Cool so norm is a wifi card plug in and click on n-m select wifi connection17:56
davmor2should work17:56
davmor2sbeattie: ^17:56
henook, let's wrap up.17:56
henothanks everyone!17:56
heno#endmeeting17:56
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:56.17:56
arathanks!17:57
davmor2ta17:57
sbeattiedavmor2: it should; mind you, I tend not to rely on n-m. But yeah, it just appears as another network device.17:57
araone question? are we finally sending summaries?17:57
araof these meetings?17:57
davmor2sbeattie: Ta I'll write that one up after then :)17:57
henoara: we should on http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/17:59
henoany takers for that? ^18:00
* davmor2 runs as quickly as possible18:00
araheno: I'll do that18:01
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