[16:29] <liw> I guess we're about to start, so... hi
[16:29] <robbiew> hi
[16:29] <robbiew> :)
[16:29]  * mvo__ waves
[16:30] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[16:30]  * robbiew just realized there's a meeting here in 30min...so short meeting today :)
[16:30] <cjwatson> afternoon
[16:30] <evand> hi-ya
[16:30]  * slangasek waves
[16:30] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:30] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:30. The chair is robbiew.
[16:30] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:30] <robbiew> sorry for not sending out an agenda
[16:31] <TheMuso> np
[16:31] <robbiew> been trying to muddle through the email and action items from the past two sprints
[16:31] <robbiew> I'm thinking with FF tomorrow, we can probably go around the "room"
[16:31] <robbiew> to see if anyone has any issues
[16:31] <robbiew> or concerncs
[16:32] <robbiew> concerns
[16:32] <robbiew> liw: does computer janitor look good?
[16:32] <liw> robbiew, not entirely -- I am not sure I will get the UI changes done before FF :( (I've spent most of today fighting my laptop, but that's not an excuse, I should've done that UI changes much earlier)
[16:33] <liw> robbiew, other than that, c-j is looking reasonably good, we're preparing c-j and update-manager uploads with mvo for tonight
[16:33] <robbiew> liw: okay, thanks.  will c-j be installed automatically in Jaunty?
[16:34] <robbiew> ie, by default
[16:34] <liw> robbiew, nope; the ubuntu-desktop mailing list vetoed that
[16:34] <robbiew> hmm...ok
[16:34] <robbiew> that's unfortunate
[16:34] <cjwatson> eek, first I heard of that
[16:34] <robbiew> but not in our control
[16:34] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2009-February/001951.html
[16:34] <robbiew> when did the "veto" occur?
[16:35] <cjwatson> that doesn't seem to be as strong as a veto
[16:35] <liw> cjwatson, should I have escalated it to you after pitti was negative?
[16:35] <cjwatson> probably not necessary, I was just a bit surprised
[16:36] <liw> cjwatson, hmm, I asked pitti further questions on irc, and didn't get a sense of a possibility of a change to a positive result... perhaps I should've pushed harder
[16:36] <cjwatson> if it's part of update-manager, then perhaps the facility can be on the system but not exposed in the UI by default, and that would make it easy to run after upgrades
[16:36] <robbiew> cjwatson: +1
[16:37] <liw> the plugin mechanism is going to be in u-m tonight, and some of the plugins will be shared; the c-j ui and some other plugins will be in a different package, and not installed by default
[16:37] <mvo__> isn't it a tool that should be run in the middle of the life-cycle of distro use? I mean, update-manager tries to tidy up during the upgrade
[16:37] <robbiew> liw: so will it be used as Martin suggested in u-m?
[16:37] <cjwatson> but I agree with Lars that not all of this is going to make sense purely after upgrades
[16:37] <cjwatson> liw: what date was the IRC discussion, so I can go back and review the logs?
[16:38] <liw> cjwatson, let me grep
[16:39] <robbiew> ok...moving on
[16:39] <robbiew> evand: any concerns/issues/problems/complaints..etc :)
[16:40] <robbiew> should I take silence as a "no"?
[16:40] <evand> robbiew: No really major concerns or issues.  The oem ID stuff is basically done, I just need to rip out the old code.  jaunty-ubiquity-usability is mostly done there's just a few minor items that I might be able to knock off, and I've been keen to get some last minute suggestions from mpt in.  The slideshow work was deferred as Julian's team didn't have time for it.
[16:41] <robbiew> cool
[16:41] <robbiew> thnx
[16:41] <robbiew> slideshow work deferred yet again...:(
[16:41] <evand> I'm also hoping to get one more usb-creator upload in, then beg for a freeze exception later in the week for add/remove programs functionality in it that I almost have done
[16:41] <evand> indeed :(
[16:41] <robbiew> at least it's not our fault ;)
[16:41] <robbiew> heh...ok
[16:41] <evand> but Julian is pushing hard to get time for it, as far as I could tell from our sprint conversation
[16:42] <robbiew> evand: ok, so I guess we'll put in on the plate for 9.10
[16:42] <evand> great
[16:42] <robbiew> cjwatson: I have the updates from you...anything you want to add?
[16:43] <cjwatson> right, you have it by mail, but for the record
[16:43] <cjwatson> my biggest concern from last week was manual package selection in the installer; that should now be done modulo bugs, as per mail to ubuntu-devel@
[16:43] <cjwatson> there are still a couple of small things that I want to hoover up, but am being slightly impeded by local infrastructure (mirror run ran out of disk last night and is taking a while to fix itself up)
[16:44] <robbiew> doh!
[16:44] <robbiew> ok
[16:44] <cjwatson> those are task selection in oem-config, and a password strength checker in the installer
[16:44] <cjwatson> but I have code written for those and just need to test
[16:44] <robbiew> ok
[16:45] <robbiew> doko: python 2.6/3.0 work looking good?
[16:46] <robbiew> ok..
[16:46] <robbiew> will follow up on that later
[16:46] <robbiew> mvo: any concerns?
[16:47] <mvo> stuff looks good, the computer-janitor merge is the biggest outstand issue
[16:47] <mvo> the not-automatic branch changes that I talked about at the sprint with slangasek and cjwatson will not make it :/
[16:48] <mvo> (we do not have a "propper" spec for it, just discussed it informally)
[16:48]  * robbiew doesn't even recall hearing about it 
[16:48] <mvo>  /end
[16:48] <mvo> :)
[16:48] <doko> robbiew: it does look ok, but I won't upload it today. The rebuilding will definietely take longer than until Thursday.
[16:49] <slangasek> robbiew: that's about letting users have -proposed enabled but not automatically pulling in everything from proposed by default
[16:49] <slangasek> (and -backports)
[16:49] <robbiew> slangasek: ah...ok, thanks
[16:49] <robbiew> doko: so when do you expect to upload?
[16:49] <mvo> the remaining problem is that apt is not clever (at all) when its about resolving dependencies from not-automatic source (i.e. it does not resolve them :/
[16:49] <doko> tonight, or tomorrow morning
[16:50] <robbiew> mvo: ok
[16:50] <robbiew> doko: ah, ok..thanks!
[16:50] <robbiew> james_w: still around?
[16:50] <robbiew> I know he had to skoot to the airport....
[16:51] <robbiew> TheMuso: I know you don't have any "features", but how is dmraid/accessibility/audio looking...any concerns?
[16:52] <TheMuso> No concerns, thers a chance I may have dmraid on the live CD, which users have been asking for, but I am not phased one way or the other if it makes it or not. Dmraid and ubiquity seem to behaving together, the issue currently is whether we activate arrays by default, and if not, where do we ask the question. Atm I am working on not activating by default, and asking at the usplash stage of live CD bootup.
[16:53] <TheMuso> Pulseaudio and alsa are in "pull fixes from git" mode, and should stay that way till release as bugs come up.
[16:53] <TheMuso> Accessibility works again for only-ubiquity mode, which I am pleased about, as well as for the live CD.
[16:53] <robbiew> great..thanks for the update
[16:54] <TheMuso> Still waiting on portaudio19 to be completely transitioned from universe, but everything shyould be in place for that.
[16:54] <TheMuso> Since espeak + alsa works somewhat nicer, especially now that portaudio19 has a patch to better work with pulseaudio.
[16:54] <TheMuso> Once that change is made, I can remove hacks in gnome-speech to make espeak work via pulseaudio.
[16:55] <robbiew> TheMuso: ok
[16:55] <robbiew> slangasek: last 5min for you :) (I know Keybuk's status all too well)
[16:56] <Keybuk> *must*boot*faster*
[16:56] <Keybuk> though I should probably ask slangasek about a standing feature freeze exception for boot performance work
[16:57] <slangasek> still trying to get the grub2 spec in some semblance of order, unfortunately; the good news is that most of the design is in place (AIUI grub-installer can already be forced to install grub2, which is what we want), and most of the rest is really bugfixes that don't need excepted
[16:57] <slangasek> should have the spec available for approval within the hour - was going to have it yesterday, but lost a couple hours of draft when my laptop decided not to resume :(
[16:57] <robbiew> slangasek: ok..
[16:57] <robbiew> ouch
[16:57] <robbiew> did you bug the kernel guys? :)
[16:58] <slangasek> no, there was nothing debuggable
[16:58] <robbiew> ah..damn
[16:58] <robbiew> ok
[16:58] <slangasek> anyway, hotkey stuff is looking good - no sweeping changes to make there
[16:59] <slangasek> and samba got a new upstream version drop earlier this week; openldap should have the same yet today, I think
[16:59] <slangasek> that's all from me
[16:59]  * mvo expects compiz 0.8 this week too
[16:59] <robbiew> mvo: is it faster? :P
[16:59] <robbiew> joking
[16:59] <mvo> heh :)
[16:59] <Keybuk> seriously
[17:00] <Keybuk> compiz takes a third of the boot chart now :)
[17:00] <robbiew> slangasek: is the power management work FF dependent?...is it still going to make this release?
[17:00] <mvo> Keybuk: I'm happy (well, maybe not happy, but..) to look into this after FF
[17:00] <Keybuk> mvo: I shall give you a hand
[17:01] <cjwatson> oh, I missed one thing, I think I might be able to land LVM support in Kickstart
[17:01] <cjwatson> (sorry to interrupt) that was off-spec but a lot of people have asked for it
[17:01] <slangasek> robbiew: AFAIK the actionable power management cleanup is "spot the bits that aren't used and chop them off" - there's a mailing list discussion about powernowd, which if we decide we can drop that, I think warrants a freeze exception
[17:01] <robbiew> cjwatson: ha! cool
[17:01] <robbiew> slangasek: ok...sounds good
[17:01] <slangasek> (freeze exception> because it makes the CDs smaller! Whoo!)
[17:01] <robbiew> lol
[17:02] <Keybuk> slangasek: we should be able to drop that now
[17:02] <Keybuk> Tim merged my kernel patches
[17:02] <robbiew> ok...I think we're going into another meeting timeslot
[17:02] <Keybuk> so all the governors and drivers are just compiled into the kernel (as of 8.24) and the kernel will pick one
[17:02] <slangasek> Keybuk: are we confident to make the call that powernowd isn't needed as a fallback?
[17:02] <Keybuk> well s/now/when 8.24 is uploaded/
[17:02] <Keybuk> slangasek: powernowd can't do anything without a scaling driver
[17:02] <Keybuk> so I'm not sure what kind of fallback you're thinking of ;)
[17:02] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
[17:03] <heno> thanks robbiew
[17:03] <mvo> thanks!
[17:03] <evand> thanks!
[17:03] <TheMuso> thanks
[17:03] <slangasek> Keybuk: the one where 'ondemand' doesn't work, which is the fallback set up in the init script?
[17:03] <liw> thanks
[17:03] <robbiew> heno: sorry about that
[17:03] <slangasek> thanks all :)
[17:03] <heno> Permit me to transition with a reference to http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ubuntu-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html ;)
[17:03] <robbiew> heh
[17:04] <heno> We've made to for you guys, please use it! :)
[17:04] <cjwatson> incentive for me to unassign more of the bugs that have been assigned to me since we moved from bugzilla ;-)
[17:04] <heno> cjwatson: absolutely
[17:05] <heno> these lists are only useful if they are realistic
[17:05]  * heno waves to the QA team
[17:05]  * ara waves
[17:05] <heno> everyone ready?
[17:05]  * cgregan waves
[17:05] <bdmurray> aye!
[17:06] <pedro_> hey hey
[17:06] <fader_> Yo
[17:06] <jcozens> Hi.
[17:06] <sbeattie> hey
[17:06] <cr3> ready red rooster
[17:07]  * ogasawara waves
[17:07] <heno> schwuk, davmor2: meeting ping
[17:07] <heno> #startmeeting
[17:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:07. The chair is heno.
[17:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:07] <davmor2> hello
[17:07] <heno> Welcome all!
[17:07] <heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[17:08] <schwuk> heno: sorry - was on phone
[17:08] <heno> [TOPIC] Monday 23rd, new features testing day
[17:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Monday 23rd, new features testing day
[17:08] <ara> that's mine
[17:08] <ara> Next Monday we are having a new testing day
[17:09] <ara> We will test some new features for Jaunty, now that we are reaching FF
[17:09] <ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20090223
[17:09] <ara> We are going to test screen-profiles, LVM partitions in the debian installer and netbook usb images
[17:09] <heno> I see it's been well-advertised on planet already
[17:10] <pedro_> \o/
[17:10] <cr3> hm, I should be adding automated lvm testing
[17:10] <heno> schwuk, cr3: we should test the new checkbox features too
[17:11] <ara> so, please, if you want to find cool new bugs, join us next Monday
[17:11] <cr3> ara: can I add Checkbox to your wiki page?
[17:11] <heno> can we get those cases added to http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/ as we go along too?
[17:11] <ara> cr3, heno: could we test checkbox the following Monday?
[17:11] <davmor2> meh
[17:12] <heno> I guess peoole will be doing some free form testing, but it would be good to capture that
[17:12] <cr3> hm, maybe Checkbox should have tests for itself :)
[17:12] <ara> heno: sure
[17:12] <heno> ara: following Monday> I'm happy with that
[17:13] <ara> heno: I could add to the wiki page that people willing to contribute to the testcases page are more than welcome
[17:13] <davmor2> Yes after main testing for a5 sound good
[17:13] <heno> Unfortunately I'm away on Monday (and this Friday)
[17:13] <ara> Unfortunately? you should be glad!
[17:13] <heno> ara: that's great, thanks
[17:14] <heno> ara: but I'll miss the testing day! ;)
[17:14] <heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights
[17:14] <pedro_> I've add that
[17:15] <pedro_> Last Thursday we had the new bugs without a package hug day https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090212
[17:15] <pedro_> we had a good participation from the community, thanks everybody!
[17:15] <pedro_> and specially thanks to mangilimic who did a lot of work during that hug day
[17:16] <pedro_> and to mrkanister for creating the page
[17:16] <pedro_> both folks are truly rockstars ;-)
[17:16] <heno> \o/
[17:16] <pedro_> and tomorrow we have the Network Manager Applet hug day https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090219 so don't miss it
[17:16] <pedro_> mangilimic already started to do some work
[17:17] <davmor2> :)
[17:17] <bdmurray> I stuck some bugs with patches in there too
[17:17] <bdmurray> or a section with them
[17:18] <heno> bdmurray, pedro_: is asac aware of those?
[17:18] <pedro_> bdmurray: great!, should we put that as a recommendation to the bug day lists?
[17:18] <heno> (he is now I guess)
[17:18] <bdmurray> pedro_: I think so yes
[17:18] <pedro_> bdmurray: perfect i'll edit the wiki page then
[17:19] <heno> Have we decided on a topic for next week
[17:19] <pedro_> heno: he's always around in #ubuntu-bugs  ;-)
[17:19] <bdmurray> there's a --patch option for bugnumbers so its trivial to add them
[17:19] <heno> pedro_ is away next week
[17:19] <pedro_> oh that, I'm away next week
[17:19] <heno> pedro_: ok, cool
[17:20] <heno> (about him being in #u-b)
[17:20] <pedro_> and there's supposed to be an apport-failed-retrace hug day
[17:20] <bdmurray> pedro_: that's a tag right?
[17:21] <pedro_> bdmurray: correct, but maybe the triagers are going to need more help looking at those bugs
[17:21] <bdmurray> won't a fair number of them be private?
[17:22] <pedro_> i don't know how many people know how to read backtraces and so on
[17:22] <davmor2> bdmurray: if that's the case won't the only people with access be bug-control anyway?
[17:23] <pedro_> bdmurray: yes, i was thinking in doing some pre triage, for marking them as public
[17:23] <pedro_> not all, but probably a ~100
[17:23] <heno> persia: you've held a class on reading traces AFAIR - could you be available for a bug day like this?
[17:24]  * persia reads context
[17:24] <bdmurray> looking at it there are probably enough public ones
[17:24] <persia> Could it be a Monday?
[17:24] <heno> The alternative is to run a server bug day - they have requested we do one
[17:25] <bdmurray> heno: I don't think they have any reference material for us yet
[17:25] <persia> If so, I'd even be willing to do two stack reading sessions, 12 hours apart to help people use those bugs.
[17:25] <pedro_> heno: regarding that i've contacted mathiaz and i'm waiting for his response
[17:25] <heno> persia: we've got a good rythm of running them on Thursdays and testing days on Mondays
[17:26] <heno> bdmurray, pedro_: ok
[17:26] <pedro_> should we go for the other target then? the flashplugin-nonfree product
[17:27] <pedro_> that's the next one on the list
[17:27] <persia> Thursday is much less good for me: I can be around some, but could probably only do one session.
[17:27] <bdmurray> If the retrace failed what are the possible courses of action?
[17:27] <heno> persia: ok, thanks. We could refer to logs of your previous sessions too
[17:29] <persia> bdmurray, If the retrace failed, it's usually mostly hopeless, although if someone can get a similar environment, they can run apport-retrace locally and sometimes recover.
[17:29] <bdmurray> Right, in which I'm not sure how much instruction is needed
[17:29] <heno> pedro_: your call - looks like either option will be fine
[17:30] <heno> in any case - can we get some support from others to be around on that day - bdmurray, ogasawara, sbeattie, fader?
[17:31] <ogasawara> yup, I'll be around
[17:31] <bdmurray> the 26th? yes
[17:31] <sbeattie> I'll be around as well.
[17:31] <fader> I'll be here
[17:31] <heno> ok great :)
[17:31] <pedro_> heno: ok let's stick with the schedule then and go for the apport-failed-retracer one ;-)
[17:32] <heno> settled :)
[17:32] <heno> [TOPIC] Checkbox PPA - schwuk
[17:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Checkbox PPA - schwuk
[17:32] <schwuk> We have checkbox PPA now:
[17:33] <davmor2> Short and to the point nice :)
[17:33] <schwuk> https://launchpad.net/~checkbox-dev/+archive/ppa
[17:33] <heno> featuring the suspend-resume test script
[17:33] <heno> (and other cool changes :)
[17:34] <schwuk> The 0.5 package is in Jaunty, but we're going to use the PPA to publish development/testing versions between releases.
[17:34] <ara> schwuk: is 0.5 the final release in Jaunty?
[17:35] <schwuk> There won't be much difference between the packages in there and Jaunty right now (apart from the suspend-resume script), but after FeatureFreeze we'll be using the PPA to get new features tested.
[17:35] <davmor2> schwuk: will this be more for testing and development than general usage for joe public?
[17:35] <schwuk> ara: 0.6 will be the final release.
[17:35] <schwuk> (for FF)
[17:35] <schwuk> davmor2: Depends. We have Intrepid and Hardy packages in there for 0.5, so that might of use by Joe Public.
[17:36] <davmor2> okay cool
[17:36] <cr3> ara: you'll be pleased to know I'll be pushing policykit support at the finishing line for ff
[17:36] <schwuk> 0.6 will have a number of new features :)
[17:36] <ara> cr3: \o/
[17:37] <heno> great, thanks schwuk, cr3
[17:37] <schwuk> But whether you're using Jaunty or not, please try out the packages in the PPA and give us some feedback.
[17:37] <schwuk> Thanks heno.
[17:37] <heno> [TOPIC] Launchpad Greasemonkey - prefilled descriptions?
[17:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Launchpad Greasemonkey - prefilled descriptions?
[17:37] <davmor2> cr3: does checkbox have a bluetooth test?  Cause bluetooth has been really sucky since intrepid
[17:38] <cr3> davmor2: nope, let me check if there's already a bug for that
[17:39] <bdmurray> Hi, so I wrote a new greasemonkey script for the OEM team that prefills the bug description.  You can see a screenshot at http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/greasemonkey/prefilled-description.png.
[17:39] <bdmurray> Anyway, I wonder if this would be useful for Ubuntu too.  I'm not quite sure the people using the greasemonkey scripts are the same people who need the description prefilled.
[17:39] <sbeattie> bdmurray: nice.
[17:40] <heno> where are the canned texts stored?
[17:40] <cr3> davmor2: created bug #331132
[17:40] <bdmurray> In the script itself.
[17:41] <ara> bdmurray, sbeattie: btw, thanks for the update on the firefox plugin: neat!
[17:42] <bdmurray> ara: thanks, it was a lot of fun
[17:43] <bdmurray> I guess it can't hurt to have the prefilled description script in the bzr tree - does the prefilled description seem reasonable?
[17:44] <heno> the best would be if casual bug filers got that template
[17:44] <heno> is that too much to ask of the LP team?
[17:45] <davmor2> heno: is there a lp bug about it?
[17:45] <bdmurray> its worth a shot I don't think there is a bug about it
[17:46] <heno> at least for bus without a package ...
[17:46] <heno> bdmurray: can you file one?
[17:46] <bdmurray> heno: of course
[17:46] <heno> The template seems fine, fwiw
[17:46] <heno> but getting it to the right audience is indeed the trick
[17:48] <bdmurray> that's all I had about that
[17:49] <heno> bdmurray: this is not in firefox-launchpad-plugin right, but in the greasemonkey collection?
[17:49] <heno> in qa-tools
[17:49] <bdmurray> heno: well, it's in launchpad-gm-scripts but yes not in the plugin
[17:50] <heno> ok, thanks bdmurray
[17:50] <heno> AOB?
[17:51] <davmor2> Anyone got pcmcia card and slot, is it hot pluggable or not?
[17:51] <fader> davmor2: I know they're supposed to be hot-pluggable, but I don't have a card to test
[17:52] <davmor2> fader: that's the problem I have here :(
[17:52] <heno> that reminds me - http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com is looking in good shape now! thanks davmor2, fader and schwuk!
[17:52] <sbeattie> davmor2: what do you need tested.
[17:52] <heno> davmor2: I might have some I can send you
[17:52] <heno> old modems and such
[17:53] <davmor2> heno: I don't have a lappy with pcmcia
[17:53] <heno> oh, ok
[17:53] <sbeattie> davmor2: I've got both; I could even send you a pci->pcmcia bridge. :-)
[17:53] <fader> davmor2: I have an older laptop with two pcmcia slots
[17:54] <davmor2> sbeattie: I just need to know what happens when you add the device is it auto reckonised and used automatically or do you have to tinker to get it up
[17:54] <fader> I actually planned to order a wifi card for it... this gives me an excuse :)
[17:55] <sbeattie> davmor2: it's generally auto-recognized and used automatically.
[17:56] <davmor2> Cool so norm is a wifi card plug in and click on n-m select wifi connection
[17:56] <davmor2> should work
[17:56] <davmor2> sbeattie: ^
[17:56] <heno> ok, let's wrap up.
[17:56] <heno> thanks everyone!
[17:56] <heno> #endmeeting
[17:56] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:56.
[17:57] <ara> thanks!
[17:57] <davmor2> ta
[17:57] <sbeattie> davmor2: it should; mind you, I tend not to rely on n-m. But yeah, it just appears as another network device.
[17:57] <ara> one question? are we finally sending summaries?
[17:57] <ara> of these meetings?
[17:57] <davmor2> sbeattie: Ta I'll write that one up after then :)
[17:59] <heno> ara: we should on http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/
[18:00] <heno> any takers for that? ^
[18:00]  * davmor2 runs as quickly as possible
[18:01] <ara> heno: I'll do that