[13:08] <asac> hmm ... moblin git seems to be down for connman ... anyone sees this for other moblin stuff too?
[13:08] <asac> for me its down for 2 weeks or so :(
[16:11] <asac> fyi, http://www.asoftsite.org/s9y/archives/159-New-connman-in-ubuntu.html
[16:19] <ogra> asac, so wordy ...
[16:34] <asac> ogra: sorry, didnt want to go into detail on what doesnt work ;)
[16:34] <ogra> heh
[18:37] <compguy1011> i have a hp mini netbook and installed ubuntu remix, it was fine for a week or so then now is so slow i have to keep restarting it, and sometimes it will boot correctly and others not. and waking from sleep it just sits with a blank screen, any ideas? or maybe a different distro/version?
[18:37] <Dillizar> can i install ubuntu on AMR9?
[18:42] <Dillizar> any one
[18:43] <persia> Dillizar, You can run Jaunty there, but installing might be tricky.  #ubuntu-arm might also be a good place to ask.
[18:43] <ogra> a beter one indeed :)
[18:44] <ogra> *better
[18:44] <persia> compguy1011, Hard to say.  I'd probably either try to track down the problems and file bugs, or try a reinstall.
[18:45] <Dillizar> persia, isnt jaunty the name of the ubuntu 9.04??
[18:45] <compguy1011> i reinstalled, same thing
[18:46] <compguy1011> someone said try debian umm
[18:46] <compguy1011> some lite version of debian
[18:47] <persia> Dillizar, Well, except that Ubuntu 9.04 isn't done yet, but yes, Jaunty will become 9.04.
[18:47] <persia> compguy1011, Well, you could.  You might also try Xubuntu, or just plain Ubuntu.
[18:47] <Dillizar> persia, i am asking bout ubuntu mobile 
[18:48] <Dillizar> this is not the channel for ubuntu mobile??
[18:48] <persia> It is.
[18:48] <compguy1011> persia, well with reg ubuntu... wouldnt that be too intense for the atom processor and a gig of ram?
[18:48] <persia> Ubuntu Mobile is a project that works on a couple flavours of Ubuntu.  There's nothing separate from Ubuntu.
[18:49] <Dillizar> persia, i think we are not on the same line here 
[18:49] <persia> compguy1011, Not at all.  Some people run it on 486s with 128MB RAM.
[18:49] <Dillizar> i have a sony ericsson p910 
[18:49] <persia> OK.
[18:49] <Dillizar> and i want to install ubuntu 
[18:49] <ogra> Dillizar, try to dee mobile as a desktop flavour ... the underlying CPU arch doesnt matter for that 
[18:49] <ogra> *see
[18:49] <Dillizar> !install
[18:50] <ogra> ubuntu mobile focuses more on screensizes and apps, not actually on the CPU so much
[18:51] <Dillizar> hmm 
[18:51] <Dillizar> are talking bout the MID 
[18:53] <persia> RIght.  There are currently two flavours, one targeting MIDs and one targeting subnotebooks/netbookx/umpcs/etc.
[18:53] <Dillizar> so how do you run the MID on a phone?? last time i asked they said i need phone with intel CPU
[18:54] <persia> Oh, that got fixed for jaunty: you can now run on any architecture supported by Ubuntu.
[18:54] <ogra> though we dont have prebuilt images for all arches 
[18:55] <Dillizar> persia, so you are saying that i can put regular 9.04 on my phone??
[18:55] <persia> Well, assuming you can get it to install.  My phone boots off USB, and I've even run a Desktop LiveCD there (with a USB CD drive).
[18:56] <persia> Note that resolution is the most critical factor.  Anything less than 1024x768 gets awkward right now, although we're trying to get that down to 800x600, and few phones have that resolution.
[18:56] <Dillizar> mine is 208 x 320 pixels
[18:56] <persia> The target is to get down to 640x480, which is available on lots of things, but that will be a while.
[18:57] <persia> Yeah, that's a little too small for desktop :)
[18:57] <Dillizar> hmm 
[18:57] <ogra> even to small for MID i'd assume
[18:58] <Dillizar> 2.9 inches
[18:58] <persia> Yeah.  I don't think MID works well below 800x480 right now, although I just got my 640x480 device fixed, and haven't tested recently.
[18:58] <persia> Dillizar, inches aren't so important.  One of my devices is 852x480 at 2.7".
[18:59] <Dillizar> :D
[19:01] <Dillizar> wait size and resolution are two different things right
[19:01] <Dillizar> so
[19:01] <persia> Right.
[19:01] <Dillizar> my display is :Size 	208 x 320 pixels, 2.9 inches, 40 x 62 mm
[19:01] <Dillizar> doesnt means its the resolution 
[19:01] <persia> Well, 208x320 is the resolution, the others are the size.
[19:02] <ogra> well, your display size is: 2.9 inches, 40 x 62 mm
[19:02] <ogra> ... what persia said
[19:02] <persia> Of course, this gets confusing because we tend to say "large" or "small" for both size and resolution.
[19:03] <Dillizar> damn 
[19:04] <persia> ian_brasil, Hey!  How's gypsy coming?  I definitely have some time for a review today.
[19:06] <Dillizar> its ok i will find a good theme :D and a splash screen :D that looks the same like ubuntu :D
[19:06] <persia> For that hardware, that's likely your best bet :)
[19:07] <ian_brasil> persia..ok..i will try to do it after work!
[19:07] <persia> ian_brasil, Oh, sorry.  I'm not tracking timezones well today.  Catch you then :)
[19:07] <Dillizar> persia, do ya know any LCARS linux 
[19:07] <Dillizar> D:
[19:08] <ian_brasil> cool
[19:09] <persia> Dillizar, Sorry, no.
[20:19] <wasabi> So... is this thing runnable on a normal Ubuntu install yet? Seems a bit convoluted to get it working on Intrepid.
[20:20] <persia> You mean in parallel?
[20:21] <wasabi> I don't know what you mean by parallel. I'd expect it to be little more than a setup consisting of a different window manager and default application set.
[20:21] <wasabi> Semes I'm wrong.
[20:22] <persia> Well, the netbook flavour is that and some gconf keys, so ought mostly work in parallel, although the gconf changes might cause some confusion.
[20:22] <wasabi> Well, can't figure out what's required then.  ubuntu-mobile and hildon-desktop seem to get a bunch of different components on it.
[20:22] <wasabi> But I'm unsure how to start a session... found hildon-start, which is hard coded to DISPLAY=:1
[20:22] <persia> The MID flavour uses startx in place of a display manager, which gets a little funny.
[20:23] <wasabi> Okay. That's fine. I can write an xsession file.
[20:23] <wasabi> So what do I need to run, in what order?
[20:23] <persia> OK.  What are you trying to accomplish?
[20:23] <wasabi> Get a ubuntu mobile desktop launched from GDM. ;)
[20:23] <persia> OK.  Which release?
[20:24] <wasabi> Oh. I see. MID and Mobile are different things?
[20:24] <wasabi> Intrepid.
[20:24] <persia> OK.
[20:24] <persia> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile
[20:24] <wasabi> Done.
[20:24] <persia> Now that's just desktop + gconf keys.  Log in with GDM, and see the difference.
[20:25] <wasabi> Eh? 
[20:25] <wasabi> It takes over an existign gnome desktop?
[20:25] <ogra> yes
[20:25] <persia> For intrepid, the "ubuntu-mobile" metapackage is just a few extra apps, and some gconf keys, to make GNOME look better on UMPCs.
[20:25] <wasabi> Ahh.
[20:26] <wasabi> Okay, so the different session, with the different application launcher: what do you call that?
[20:26] <ogra> fi you uninstall ubuntu-mobile-default-settings it will revert 
[20:26] <persia> Somehow I think we should step back again.
[20:26] <persia> What are you trying to accomplish?
[20:26] <wasabi> I have no idea. ;) To get a touch-screeny-like interface on a desktop, preferably without killing my existing gnome setup. :0
[20:26] <persia> You want a hildon environment launched from GDM?
[20:26] <ogra> i think you are talking about ubuntu-netbook-remix 
[20:26] <ogra> or MID
[20:26] <wasabi> Maybe I am.
[20:27] <ogra> have a screenshot of what you want ? 
[20:27] <wasabi> Nothing I can find describes the differences or even what these things are in full.
[20:27] <persia> That's mostly because every time I wrote it down it changed.
[20:27] <wasabi> Heh
[20:27] <persia> As long as I don't write it down, it seems stable.
[20:27] <wasabi> ogra: Not really. I want to try it all.
[20:27] <wasabi> ogra: So I can figure out what it is.
[20:28] <ogra> netbook-remix: http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/06/03/canonical-announces-the-ubuntu-netbook-remix/ 
[20:28] <ogra> MID: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
[20:28] <wasabi> Ahh. That grid on the mboile page.
[20:28] <ogra> umpc: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/
[20:28] <wasabi> That's what I was intiially interested in
[20:29] <persia> That's what you just installed, but because it's done mostly with gconf, it's not available in parallel.
[20:29] <persia> Oh, sorry.  mistaken interpolation.
[20:29] <ogra> yeah
[20:29] <ogra> he wants MID
[20:29] <wasabi> I see, so mobile is just some gconf tweaks to make windows fullscreen and colors dark, and set an icon theme.
[20:29] <wasabi> got it.
[20:29] <persia> Right.  So, the software that would have been used to generate those screenshots never existed in an installable form within Ubuntu.
[20:30] <persia> The closest you'll find in intrepid is from installing ubuntu-mid.
[20:30] <ogra> (the image, not the metapackage)
[20:30] <persia> However, you'll need to hack apart some of ubuntu-mid-default-settings if you want to get that working through GDM.
[20:30] <persia> ogra, Or the metapackage.
[20:31] <ogra> in intrepid ? 
[20:31] <wasabi> metapackage exists in intrepid. Cannot vouch for it's operation. :)
[20:31]  * ogra doubts that makes sense ... though its techinically possible
[20:31] <persia> Well, there are 12 applications that were very slightly different, but kourou wasn't one of them.
[20:31] <wasabi> Weird Java stuff coming along with it.
[20:31] <ogra> yes, its used to build the image
[20:32] <ogra> but -mid is more, its the cut down system below as well
[20:32] <persia> So, ubuntu-mid-default-settings installs two things that will cause issues with being in parallel.
[20:33] <persia> The first is /etc/event.d/session which is a respawning startx running as the user "ubuntu".
[20:33] <wasabi> Nice.
[20:33] <persia> The second is /etc/X11/Xsession.d/25${somethingorother} which is the session definition for the environment.
[20:34] <ogra> wasabi, so what drove you in the mobile direction as a server guy :)
[20:34] <wasabi> I'm not just a server guy.
[20:34] <persia> If you fiddle with those, you can probably hack up something that lets you use GDM.
[20:34] <ogra> well, thats what i have known you for the last years :)
[20:34] <wasabi> Because that's what I engage with you on. :)
[20:34] <ogra> haha
[20:34] <wasabi> I'm also a permanent establishment in #gnome-hackers.
[20:35] <wasabi> And do Mono and Gtk# development
[20:35] <ogra> oh, i didnt know 
[20:35] <wasabi> And right now, I'm doing a house up with touchscreen interfaces.
[20:35] <persia> And talk about all three of those on #ubuntu-devel :)
[20:35] <wasabi> Embedded into the walls.
[20:35] <ogra> cute !
[20:35] <wasabi> So I'm taking a look at what Ubuntu has on teh front that might assist that.
[20:35] <ogra> MID is likely good for that but you will surely need custom home automation apps
[20:35] <wasabi> I've also got Android running on an x86 just to check that out. :)
[20:36] <persia> wasabi, Calling any of it "Embedded" is a bit of a stretch.  It's just interface changes.
[20:36] <wasabi> Oh, no doubt. I might give up and do nothing more than a single full screened Gtk app with some tabs.
[20:36] <wasabi> My biggest itnerest right now is to explore the onscreen keyboard and input stuff, touch specific.
[20:36] <wasabi> Stuff hildon contributed to.
[20:36] <wasabi> No matter what I develop, I'll want that.
[20:40] <ogra> well, there are other tools
[20:41] <ogra> i personally prefer the cellwriter keyboard as onscreen kbd 
[20:41] <wasabi> Hildon's on screen keyboard... the one that pops up below, and moves the window out of the way... '
[20:41] <wasabi> what's that called, and is that non-hildon specific at this point?
[20:41] <ogra> its non hildon, its the one you see in the screenshots for umpc
[20:42] <wasabi> it seems to pop up on top of things, instead of making them smaller.
[20:42] <ogra> but it doesnt move stuff out of the way (yet)
[20:42] <wasabi> ahh
[20:42] <ogra> right
[23:30] <ian_brasil> persia: i have built gypsy in intrepid fine ..i have a jaunty pbuilder set up and i am running sudo pbuilder build gypsy_0.5-2.dsc 
[23:31] <ian_brasil> but i get errors running pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
[23:31] <ian_brasil> it says this package is broken
[23:32] <ian_brasil> i ran pbuilder update too