[00:41] <Keybuk> Md: patches for all packages are available in Ubuntu to move to /lib/udev/rules.d
[00:42] <Keybuk> there isn't a single package left installing to /etc
[00:42] <Md> maybe the ubuntu maintainers could submit them to the debian bts then :-)
[00:53] <Keybuk> until now, you were dead set against such a change ;)
[00:53] <Keybuk> I can submit them in literally seconds if you upload a udev that moves to the default rules and uses /lib/udev/rules.d
[00:56] <Md> k
[00:57] <Md> well, I do not have immediate plans to switch to the default rules files
[01:01] <Keybuk> :-(
[03:03] <sadmac> Keybuk: Did you check out the patch on the mailing list?
[15:52] <bgamari> is there any way to have upstart execute a command as a given user?
[15:53] <bgamari> is su really the best way?
[15:53] <sadmac2> bgamari: for now, yes.
[15:53] <bgamari> alright
[15:54] <bgamari> thanks
[15:54] <bgamari> are there plans to change this?
[15:54] <sadmac2> bgamari: yes. In some pending release there should be a user stanza
[15:54] <bgamari> alright
[15:55] <bgamari> that's probably for the best
[15:55] <bgamari> thanks for your help
[15:57] <sadmac2> m[
[23:13] <solrize> hi, if this isn't too impertinent a question, is there a manual for upstart?  i don't see one on the website
[23:13] <solrize> thanks
[23:13] <solrize> one immediate thing i'm having trouble figuring out is how upstart knows whether a file in the config directory is in fact a config file
[23:17] <sadmac> solrize: it doesn't :) if it doesn't understand anything in the file it puts an error in the log and ignores it. It also ignores file names matching a few specific patterns (temp files and files that tend to be laid down by package managers)
[23:18] <solrize> what about .txt files?
[23:18] <solrize> or .sh ?
[23:18] <solrize> is there a doc saying what file names are ignored?
[23:19] <sadmac> solrize: sadly no. but I know it ignores neither of those
[23:19] <solrize> hmm
[23:22] <sadmac> hmm. can't even find the code that does it anymore
[23:22] <sadmac> Keybuk: ?^
[23:28] <solrize> well, can you tell me an example of a filename i can use to put some non-upstart stuff in the directory?  this idea of just treating every file as a config file and logging errors if it doesn't parse is unappetizing.
[23:32] <sadmac> solrize: why do you need this?
[23:34] <solrize> 1) to include some documentation for the config files, other than as # comments; 2) to put some of the service scripts in the same directory as the upstart config, so they're not scattered all over the place
[23:35] <solrize> i see that the directory now on the system i'm using has a .txt file with some docs, that i guess is getting parsed by upstart :(
[23:36] <sadmac> 1 is flat out wrong. pure documentation does not go /anywhere/ in /etc
[23:36] <sadmac> /usr/share/doc if necessary
[23:36] <solrize> it's just a readme saying what the different files do
[23:36] <sadmac> 2 should be another folder in /etc
[23:37] <sadmac> brb fire alarm in building.
[23:37] <solrize> yow
[23:37] <solrize> ok
[23:37] <solrize> get outside :)
[23:42] <sadmac> well that was interesting
[23:42] <sadmac> but yes, FHS says only configuration goes in /etc. Its extraordinarily adamant about it.
[23:44] <solrize> FHS?
[23:44] <solrize> false alarm i hope (re the fire alarm)
[23:44] <solrize> oh
[23:44] <solrize> www.pathname.com/fhs
[23:44] <soren> solrize: Filesystem Hierarchy Standard.
[23:44] <solrize> looking
[23:44] <soren> right :)
[23:48] <solrize> it says "No binaries may be located under /etc" nothing about "no docs"
[23:49] <solrize> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#AEN534
[23:50] <sadmac> "The /etc hierarchy contains configuration files. A "configuration file" is a local file used to control the operation of a program; it must be static and cannot be an executable binary."
[23:51] <sadmac> docs aren't used to control the operation of a program
[23:51] <solrize> by that logic, comments shouldn't be allowed in conf files
[23:51] <sadmac> its only granular to the file level.
[23:55] <ion_> sadmac is right, solrize is wrong. :-P
[23:55] <solrize> that is lame, how an application interprets its conf files is up to the application
[23:56] <sadmac> solrize: Unix is a large thing, and old.
[23:56] <solrize> yes, quite old.  i remember something called /etc/init which was an executable binary ;-)
[23:56] <sadmac> when was that?
[23:56] <solrize> before the dawn of time ;)
[23:57] <solrize> also /etc/update :)
[23:57] <solrize> remember that?
[23:57] <sadmac> well /usr used to be a kind of shared home folder.
[23:57] <solrize> that too :)
[23:57] <solrize> i mean, it got its name because that's where user directories were :)
[23:59] <solrize> anyway it is perfectly reasonable to treat some files as comments or no-ops, as upstart apparently already does