[03:45] <thewrath> is there wobi for 9.04
[05:53] <dholbach> hiya
[05:53] <dholbach> anybody still/yet awake? :)
[06:50] <didrocks> dholbach: I am now ;)
[06:50] <dholbach> didrocks: all good - followed up on bug 331324 already
[06:50] <dholbach> nobody from France in  https://launchpad.net/~5-a-day-participants/+map !
[06:52] <didrocks> dholbach: did you blog about it? The new 5-a-day process ?
[06:52] <dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=366
[06:52] <didrocks> (didn't read yet the planet)
[06:52] <didrocks> great. I will do it during the general presentation before chasing bug
[06:53] <didrocks> so, I have to read the updated wiki pages :)
[06:54] <dholbach> the new stats are not up yet, still working on them, but they'll be in place for the GBJ
[06:54] <dholbach> now that xdm let me into my session, I can put some more work into it :)
[06:55] <didrocks> great! I joined and tell people who will be present on the D Day when I will teach them a little about LP
[06:55] <didrocks> yes, it's easier with a graphical session :p
[06:56]  * dholbach hugs didrocks
[06:56]  * didrocks hugs dholbach back :)
[06:57] <dholbach> mes amis français(es?) :-)
[06:58] <didrocks> dholbach: "françaises" might be more interesting for you ^^
[07:00] <dholbach> c'est le problème, si tu ne parles pas français du tout :)
[07:00] <dholbach> errr jamais
[07:01]  * dholbach shrugs :)
[07:01] <didrocks> excellent ^^
[07:01] <dholbach> excéllent! :-)
[07:01] <dholbach> e?
[07:01] <didrocks> if only my German had the same level
[07:01] <didrocks> no, only "e"
[07:01] <didrocks> excellent in French :)
[07:02] <didrocks> ell -> the sound is "è"
[07:02] <didrocks> ell -> [ "èl" ]
[07:02] <dholbach> I read a few Harry Potter books in French and was surprised how much of it I still understood, but speaking French and actually stringing French words together is a nightmare :)
[07:03] <didrocks> you seem to have a very good level. For every languages, I thing that reading/listening a language is easier that writing/speaking it
[07:04] <didrocks> for instance, I think I can understand English very well (high score à TOEIC, I read English book every day, see series in VO...)
[07:04] <didrocks> but as you can read, I make a lot of mistakes writing it
[07:05] <dholbach> absolutely
[07:06] <didrocks> "absolutely" -> "I do a lot of mistakes" ? :p
[07:06] <dholbach> noooooo :)
[07:06] <didrocks> ,-
[07:06] <didrocks> ;)
[07:06] <didrocks> (oupssss, it was a qwerty smiley)
[07:07]  * dholbach embrasse didrocks
[07:07] <dholbach> maybe I need to do holidays in France :)
[07:07]  * didrocks étreint dholbach 
[07:08] <dholbach> :-)
[07:08]  * dholbach didn't know that one
[07:09] <didrocks> it's not a very common one :)
[07:09] <didrocks> but it corresponds more to "hug" than "embrasser" :)
[07:09] <dholbach> ok :)
[08:42] <dholbach> seb128: sorry for pestering you already, but do you know something about bug 331324 and bug 331292? :)
[08:43] <seb128> dholbach: works for me
[08:43] <seb128> dholbach: that's why I'm trying to get the retracer working, cf my ping to pitti on the other channel
[08:43] <dholbach> WFM = NOTABUG? :-)
[08:43] <dholbach> *nod*
[08:43] <seb128> dholbach: no, just "no clue, need a backtrace from somebody having the issue"
[08:43] <seb128> works fine on my intel laptop and ati desktop
[08:43] <dholbach> I added retraced 331324 locally
[08:43] <seb128> danke
[08:48] <dholbach> bug 330621 is pestering me too :-/
[08:48] <dholbach> added a local retrace as well
[08:49] <seb128> dholbach: how do you fancing trying a gtk patch just in case that fix it?
[08:49] <seb128> dholbach: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gtk%2B/trunk/gdk/x11/gdkscreen-x11.c?r1=22327&r2=22370&pathrev=22370
[08:49] <dholbach> fix which one? the gdm one?
[08:50] <seb128> dholbach: yes, gdm didn't change recently the bug is a gtk one
[08:50] <dholbach> I noticed :)
[08:50] <dholbach> sure
[08:50] <dholbach> seb128,mvo: when did we drop bulletproof X?
[08:50] <seb128> dholbach: gutsy?
[08:50] <dholbach> now I can only click on "OK" when gdm is in the crash loop of hell
[08:51] <seb128> well, bulletproof X is about x not starting
[08:51] <seb128> the issue there is the gdm login screen crashing
[08:51] <seb128> nothing xorg can do about that
[08:51] <dholbach> it could install xdm!
[08:51] <dholbach> ;-)
[08:52] <dholbach> argh
[08:52] <seb128> dholbach: what?
[08:52] <dholbach> why does gtk use quilt?!
[08:52] <seb128> dholbach: just apply the patch to the source and build
[08:53] <dholbach> seems you couldn't stop the madness when I left the team ;-)
[08:53] <seb128> dholbach: debian did that not me rather
[08:55] <dholbach> haha
[08:55] <dholbach> lintian complains now
[08:55] <dholbach> patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff
[08:55] <dholbach> hi tseliot
[08:55] <tseliot> dholbach: hi :-)
[08:57] <dholbach> seb128: I'll let it build now and take the dog for a walk - will report back in a bit
[08:57] <seb128> dholbach: danke
[08:58] <dholbach> seb128: if there's anything I can do for the gnome-terminal/vte/something crash, let me know
[08:58] <dholbach> seb128: up until now I was always lucky to have saved my work before
[08:58] <dholbach> :-)
[08:58] <seb128> dholbach: I don't know about any crasher there
[08:58] <seb128> but maybe better to talk to mvo about vte
[08:59] <dholbach> bug 330621
[08:59] <dholbach> sorry, didn't get a better retrace done there
[08:59] <dholbach> pitti: how do I tell apport not to stop me from filing bugs but instead to pop up everytime?
[08:59] <dholbach> (just in case the issue comes up again)
[09:02] <pitti> dholbach: you mean for repeated crashes? just delete the old crash report, or move it away
[09:02] <dholbach> ok
[09:02] <dholbach> thanks
[09:28] <gicmo> MR holbach!
[09:29] <gicmo> dholbach: I recently read something of a baron d'holbach
[09:29] <gicmo> cool guy
[09:29] <mvo> haha
[09:30] <mvo> I will call him d'holbach from own on, with a fake french accent :P
[09:30] <dholbach> mvo: your french accent sounds anything but french ;-)
[09:31] <dholbach> gicmo: a relative of mine actually did the work to trace back where the Holbachs came from and in the 1700s they came from France
[09:31] <dholbach> not sure I'm related to THAT Holbach though
[09:31] <dholbach> haven't even read what he has to say :)
[09:31] <gicmo> mvo: hey hey, .. I love that idea! ;-)
[09:32] <gicmo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_d'Holbach
[09:32] <gicmo> dholbach: one of the first "self-described" atheist
[09:33] <dholbach> interesting biography
[09:34] <seb128> dholbach: still building?
[09:34] <dholbach> seb128: yep
[09:34] <dholbach> but almost done
[09:42] <dholbach> seb128,mvo: just while I was installing the new GTK: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/vte
[09:44] <dholbach> seb128: the gtk patch does not seem to fix the issue
[09:45] <seb128> grrr
[09:46] <dholbach> seb128: if you have another patch I should test, please let me know - I'm happy to help there
[09:47] <seb128> dholbach: what video driver do you use?
[09:47] <dholbach> seb128: nv
[09:47] <dholbach> hiya MacSlow
[09:47] <seb128> the issue seem to be mostly for nvidia users
[09:48] <seb128> can I recommend you buying a decent video card next time? ;-)
[09:48] <dholbach> all video cards  / drivers suck :)
[09:48] <MacSlow> hey dholbach, seb128, pitti, mvo
[09:48] <pitti> hi MacSlow
[09:48] <seb128> dholbach: I've no issue on my intel ;-)
[09:49] <seb128> hello MacSlow
[09:49]  * MacSlow has issues with intel on jaunty atm
[09:49] <dholbach> MacSlow: seems like a bunch of people took alsdorf for a test drive:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd  :-)
[09:49] <seb128> running jaunty now? ;-)
[09:49] <MacSlow> it's noticable jerkier than with intrepid
[09:49] <dholbach> seb128: the rewritten intel driver (or whatever is causing messed up screens) sucks :)
[09:50] <MacSlow> dholbach, well we want that ... although I have not yet beaten my "personal" list of bugs to fix :)
[09:50] <seb128> dholbach: free software crap as you say right?
[09:50] <dholbach> "free software shit!" - elmo's words
[09:51] <seb128> dholbach: ok, I used plan b for gtk and uploaded a version which doesn't do xrandr init, let me know how it works for you
[09:51] <seb128> graaa
[09:51] <seb128> cd ..
[09:51] <seb128> ls
[09:51] <seb128> ups
[09:51] <dholbach> seb128: shall I test it here locally or just upgrade later on and see?
[09:51] <seb128> dholbach: wait, I screwed and uploaded the version which has the svn fix but doesn't work
[09:52] <dholbach> seb128: with xdm I have a workaround now, so let me know when I shall test something - I'll do some other work now
[09:52] <seb128> will do thanks
[09:52] <dholbach> making "getting touched bugs of ~5-a-day-participants to produce statistics" work :)
[09:52] <mvo> hey MacSlow - the notification fading works now on my box just fine
[09:53] <dholbach> so no need for the client or the applet any more
[09:53] <mvo> (with latest compiz-fusion-plugins-main upload)
[09:53] <dholbach> mvo: do you get any crashes or "just a black notification for volume changes"?
[09:58] <dholbach> seb128: sorry - seems I have two separate vte crashes
[09:58] <seb128> dholbach: talk to mvo, I'm focussed on this gtk crasher for now
[09:58] <dholbach> right-o
[09:59] <MacSlow> mvo, thanks a lot for integrating the patches!
[10:04] <gicmo> MacSlow: ok, where are my screencasts, shots!
[10:04] <gicmo> I wants them nowz!
[10:05] <MacSlow> gicmo, hey there
[10:05] <gicmo> hey hey ;-)
[10:05] <MacSlow> gicmo, I'm bug-triaging right now
[10:05] <gicmo> sure, I figured you were pretty busy
[10:16] <asac> MacSlow: i wontfixed 331363 ... maybe check whether that was right
[10:17] <MacSlow> asac, that's correct -> "won't fix"
[10:17] <asac> good
[10:17] <MacSlow> asac, we still need to link to the spec for the jaunty notifcations so people can easily read up our rationale behind this
[10:18] <asac> MacSlow: hmm. couldnt we do that alrady?
[10:18] <asac> i mean the blueprint main page should be public ... and we could link to it from bugs
[10:19] <seb128> asac: what change are you speaking about?
[10:19] <MacSlow> asac, I don't know the URL :)
[10:19] <seb128> asac: anyway https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines
[10:19] <asac> ah cool
[10:19] <MacSlow> seb128, ah there mpt put it
[10:19] <asac> seb128: is that the main spec page?
[10:19] <seb128> asac: that's the whole design team spec, it's public since this night
[10:20] <asac> good
[10:20] <seb128> asac: hum no, not the whole spec for app change but the guidelines
[10:20] <asac> does that mention why we show only one notification at the same time?
[10:20] <seb128> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD
[10:20] <asac> seb128: yeah. i thought there was a blueprint specicificall for OSG
[10:20] <asac> OSD
[10:20] <seb128> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Concatenating%20existing%20bubbles
[10:21] <asac> yeah great.
[10:21] <asac> i just post both links to the wont fix bug
[10:21] <seb128> cool
[10:25] <mvo> asac: i try to reproduce the nm crash during upgrades now, is there anything you know about it? i.e. if there is a way to trigger it
[10:25] <mvo> (e.g. needs to be on a wired network, wireless etc)
[10:26] <asac> ok i twittered the notification wiki stuff ;)
[10:26] <asac> mvo: no ... i just know "it happened for me" and it happened for others
[10:26] <asac> mvo: i think its good thing to be connected to wired and wifi if possible
[10:26] <asac> but probably just one connect way is enough
[10:27] <mvo> asac: I see what I can do
[10:27] <asac> mvo: just keep it enabled in your upgrade tests
[10:27] <asac> and hopefully it will show up
[10:27] <mvo> asac: yeah
[10:27] <mvo> asac: apport is now enabled too on upgrades
[10:27] <mvo> so we should be good
[10:27] <asac> mvo: maybe the upgrade needs to be of long runinng nature
[10:28] <asac> mine took like 5 hours ;) because i forgot to remove the whole kde and xfce stack
[10:28] <seb128> pitti: can you bump the gtk+2.0 build priority at least on i386 and amd64?
[10:28] <asac> mvo: great. also for intrepid installs?
[10:28] <seb128> pitti: yesterday's upgrade makes gdm crash for some users = no login
[10:28] <mvo> asac: you mean for upgrades from stock intrepid? yes
[10:28] <asac> mvo: did you manage to get a systme-connection setup?
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: done
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: I did upload a quick workaround for now but having it building would be nice
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: danke
[10:29] <mvo> asac: no, not yet
[10:29] <mvo> asac: currently its plain dhcp
[10:30] <asac> mvo: ok. but you use NM?
[10:30] <asac> or not?
[10:30] <asac> i just want to ensure that NM is always used in your upgrade tests (except for server of course)
[10:30] <asac> thought you need a system connection for that
[10:30] <mvo> asac: its installed and running, do I need to do more?
[10:30] <mvo> ok
[10:30] <seb128> mvo: do you have any clue what is lacking on ati RV610 card or driver to get compiz working?
[10:31] <asac> mvo: i am not sure. if NM manages your network thats ok
[10:31] <mvo> hm, if I need a system connection I will have to add a option I guess
[10:31] <asac> if you use ifupdown in /etc/network/interfaces its probably not
[10:31] <mvo> asac: thanks, I look into it
[10:31] <mvo> seb128: what does compiz print when you try to start it?
[10:31] <mvo> seb128: I suspect the 3d support for the r6xx is just not quite there yet
[10:32] <seb128> Software rasterizer detected, abortingaborting and using fallback
[10:32] <mvo> seb128: you can force the start, but you will most likely get white windows everywhere
[10:32] <seb128> how?
[10:32] <mvo> seb128: try "SKIP_CHECKS=yes compiz"
[10:33] <asac> oh ... dont do that ;)
[10:33] <asac> the software rasterihzing feature at least killed me ;)
[10:34] <asac> when skipping checks
[10:34] <asac> amaraanth said that with software rasterizing you would probably get 2 frames ;)
[10:34]  * seb128 wonders why jockey is so slooooow
[10:34] <seb128> come on, taking 7-8 seconds to "detect drivers" when enable desktop effects
[10:35] <mvo> seb128: that is jockey
[10:35] <seb128> mvo: what I just wrote, * seb128 wonders why jockey is so slooooow
[10:35] <mvo> asac: have you tried it?
[10:35] <mvo> seb128: yes, just noticed
[10:35] <seb128> ;-)
[10:36] <mvo> some people get just white windows with no textures
[10:36] <seb128> ok, white screen
[10:36] <seb128> no compiz for me then, will teach me to buy a cheap and recent ati card
[10:36] <asac> mvo i got white screen too
[10:36] <mvo> http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature
[10:37] <mvo> that lists textures as "WIP"
[10:37] <asac> with bunch of manual things i had compiz once running
[10:37] <asac> but that was an accident and was not usable
[10:37] <mvo> asac: on what card?
[10:37] <asac> R580? let me look
[10:38] <mvo> the r5xx should be much better support
[10:38] <mvo> maybe you are unlukey
[10:38] <asac> 05:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc R580 [Radeon X1900] Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Device 0b12
[10:38] <asac> i think 580 is an exception
[10:42] <tjaalton> is slomo MIA? gst-plugins-bad-multiverse needs a rebuild against the new libmjpegtools and libx264
[10:42] <seb128> tjaalton: he's not doing ubuntu direct work for a while
[10:42] <tjaalton> seb128: ok
[10:44] <gnomefreak> is it known that the greeter app is crashing?
[10:44] <tjaalton> just what I was about to ask :)
[10:45] <seb128> gnomefreak: bug #331324
[10:45] <seb128> do you all use nvidia cards?
[10:45] <tjaalton> yes..
[10:45] <dholbach> gnomefreak, tjaalton: use xdm! :)
[10:45] <seb128> that seem to be nvidia specific, I don't get it on my intel or ati installs
[10:45] <tjaalton> dholbach: soo 90's ;)
[10:46] <dholbach> tjaalton: feels like 70s :)
[10:46] <seb128> the new gtk is building at the moment so try to get the updated deb in one hour and let me know if that fix your issue
[10:47] <tjaalton> sure, thanks
[10:48] <tjaalton> I'll try to build gst-p-b-m and if it does, upload
[10:52] <tjaalton> nope, didn't
[10:52] <tjaalton> lunch->
[11:27] <seb128> dholbach: gtk built now
[11:27] <seb128> dholbach: you are using amd64?
[11:27] <dholbach> yes
[11:28] <seb128> dholbach: ok, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/2.15.4-0ubuntu3/+build/875402 is waiting for binaries to be published now
[11:28] <seb128> dholbach: please try after your break
[11:29] <dholbach> will do
[11:34] <asac> MacSlow: so flickering is fixed after latest upgrades. thanks. i closed the bug
[11:35] <MacSlow> asac, you're welcome
[11:54] <mvo_> asac: hm, so I'm in NM now and click on "avaiable for all users" while editing a connection. that grays out the apply button
[11:56] <Laney> seb128: Could you ack (and process?) bug 330440? I think this is what causes bug 331023
[11:57] <seb128> Laney: acked
[11:57] <seb128> Laney: I'll do sync a bit later if nobody else is quicker, I'm about to go for lunch
[11:57] <Laney> cool, thanks
[11:57] <Laney> (you need to subscribe the archive in that case)
[11:58] <seb128> ah right, I closed the bug now and need to go, can you do that?
[11:58] <Laney> I can, but I cannot unsubscribe u-m-s
[11:58] <Laney> done
[11:58] <seb128> sponsors unsubscribed
[11:59] <fta2> seb128, gdmgreeter crashed with SIGSEGV in __libc_start_main(), known?
[11:59] <mvo_> mpt: do you think I should change the auto-launch interval for the unstable distro to something like 24h or 12h or so?
[11:59] <seb128> fta2: using nvidia videocard?
[11:59] <fta2> yes
[11:59] <seb128> fta2: known issue, upgrade the gtk when the new binaries will be published or get those on launchpad
[12:00] <fta2> seb128, ok, thanks.
[12:01] <mvo_> asac: geh, I get a huge dialog telling me "you are not connected to "wirded connection 1" in jaunty (with ok, cancel, dont'show)
[12:02] <mvo_> asac: but I'm still not able to set it systemwide
[12:07] <asac> mvo_: what are you trying to do?
[12:07] <asac> btw, that dialog will go away today
[12:08] <asac> obviously
[12:08] <mvo_> asac: I try to set a system connection
[12:09] <asac> mvo_: you have to create a new one
[12:09] <asac> and directly flag it as system
[12:09] <asac> (intrepid)
[12:09] <asac> _dont_ try to change auto connections
[12:09] <mvo_> asac: I'm on jaunty now
[12:09] <asac> mvo_: thats called "all users"
[12:10] <asac> "Connection available to all userse"
[12:10] <mvo_> asac: as soon as I click on the all users checkbox my apply button is set to insensitive
[12:10] <asac> let me try
[12:10] <asac> hmm doesnt happen here
[12:10] <maxb> Argh. Half my notify-osd bugs about how it omits features present in notification-daemon are getting closed "Invalid", "Won't Fix", "It's by design"
[12:10] <asac> maybe a policy kit thing?
[12:11] <mvo_> asac: I guess :/ if you can point me to a config file example I will just use that
[12:11] <asac> mvo_: what kind of config do you want?
[12:11] <asac> just dhpc?
[12:11] <mvo_> asac: just a dhcp on eth0 managed by NM
[12:12] <asac> mvo_: do you have two wired interfaces?
[12:12] <asac> if so give me the Mac of the interface you want to use
[12:12] <mvo_> asac: no, just one
[12:14] <asac> mvo_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/mvodhcp
[12:14] <asac> drop that in /etc/NetworkNanager/system-connections
[12:14] <asac> and killall nm-system-settings
[12:15] <mvo_> thanks asac
[12:16] <asac> i hope that config is compatible with intrepid
[12:16] <asac> i think so actually
[12:19] <dholbach> yoohooo
[12:19] <dholbach> new gtk fixes gdm login problem :)
[12:20] <fta2> hm, my camera is no longer auto-mounted, and nautilus is not able to mount it either :(
[12:21] <fta2> ok, the good old mount worked. bad gnome
[12:21] <fta2> gasp, tracker-extract crashed with signal 5 in IA__g_malloc0(), repetitively
[12:23] <mvo_> asac: that seems to work, I run a test with that now
[12:23] <asac> mvo_: good
[12:24] <asac> mvo_: so what did you do when it didnt work for you?
[12:24] <asac> just created a new connection and then tried to check the "all users" thing?
[12:24] <asac> i think there is a bug open abou tthat
[12:25] <mvo_> asac: yes
[12:25] <asac> but i didnt know that its actually reproducible by someone with skills ;)
[12:25] <mvo_> asac: crated new connection, click on "for all" - gone
[12:25]  * mvo_ wonders who that would be 
[12:25] <asac> you!
[12:25] <asac> ;)
[12:25]  * mvo_ hides under a rock
[12:26] <asac> mvo_: so now that there is such a connection ... can you still not create a new one?
[12:26] <mvo_> asac: the upgrade test it running just now, I can check when it is finished
[12:26] <asac> sure
[12:27] <asac> maybe it even goes away when i upload rc1 later today
[12:27] <asac> dan said he fixed some applet bugs
[12:27] <mvo_> ok, cool
[12:30] <asac> sigh
[12:30] <asac> so how to produce a tarball from git?
[12:30] <asac>        git-tar-tree(1)
[12:30] <asac>            (deprecated) Create a tar archive of the files in the named tree object.
[12:30] <asac> i remember i used something like export
[12:30] <asac> but i cannot find it anymore in man git
[12:31] <asac> hah git-archive ;)
[12:31] <asac>        git-archive(1)
[12:31] <asac>            Create an archive of files from a named tree.
[12:41] <seb128> dholbach: thanks for confirming it's fixed with the update!
[12:41] <mvo_> asac: hm, NM is not cool, it takes down my network connection during the upgrade
[12:41] <mvo_> asac: I can give you the full syslog output, but it seems its caused by hal disappearing
[12:42] <asac> mvo_: hal disappearing is a problem
[12:42] <asac> that shouldnt happen actually
[12:42] <mvo_> deactivating device (reason: 36) (I'm glad its not 42!)
[12:42] <mvo_> and there is also error 34
[12:42] <asac> 42? is that because you are 42 years old?
[12:42] <mvo_> I feel like 84
[12:42] <mvo_> (but I'm just 21)
[12:42] <mvo_> or maybe something in between
[12:43] <mvo_> I can put the syslog up once I have network back in this machine
[12:43] <asac> mvo_:     /* The device was removed */
[12:43] <asac>         NM_DEVICE_STATE_REASON_REMOVED,
[12:43] <mvo_> asac: hal is restarted early in the upgrade
[12:44] <asac> mvo_: why?
[12:44] <asac> cant that wait till reboot?
[12:44] <mvo_> asac: because that is what the hal postinst does
[12:44] <asac> hmm
[12:44] <mvo_> asac: pitti probably knows if it can be postpone
[12:44] <mvo_> d
[12:44] <seb128> seems to be a dbus like discussion
[12:45] <mvo_> it has also not given the device back
[12:45] <mvo_> I mean, I see that the device goes away on stop, but why did it not re-add it on start again?
[12:46] <asac> mvo_: i think i restarted hal a few times
[12:46] <asac> mvo_: maybe udev?
[12:47] <mvo_> asac: sec, I check
[12:47] <asac> mvo_: so at least my 3g doesnt go down on hal restart:
[12:47] <asac> Feb 19 13:47:28 tinya NetworkManager: <info>  HAL disappeared
[12:47] <asac> Feb 19 13:47:29 tinya acpid: client connected from 8290[110:122]
[12:47] <asac> Feb 19 13:47:29 tinya NetworkManager: <info>  HAL re-appeared
[12:47] <asac> Feb 19 13:47:29 tinya NetworkManager: <info>  Found radio killswitch /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_8086_4230_rfkill_4965AGN_wlan
[12:47] <mvo_> asac: udev is replaced, but it does not look like anything is started
[12:48] <asac> mvo_: hmm .. at best post your thing
[12:51] <seb128> asac, mvo_, pitti: are you guys still in a feature freeze rush or do you think you could do some sponsoring today or tomorrow?
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: working on my pre-last FF item (bug 124338)
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: next thing is to disable the indicator applet for stracciatella, then my FF stuff is done
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: 124338 is done, just uploading
[12:54] <seb128> bug #124338
[12:54] <pitti> the one above :)
[12:54] <mvo_> asac: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/nm-upgrade-syslog
[12:54] <mvo_> asac: check aroudn Feb 19 13:35:28
[12:54] <seb128> pitti: ah right
[12:54] <mvo_> seb128: should be ok, I need to finish a langauge-selector review
[12:54] <mvo_> but other than that
[12:55] <seb128> cool
[12:56] <seb128> there is no hurry but I've been trying to keep the desktop sponsoring queue under control in detriment of sleep this week but I need a good night today so any help on sponsoring tomorrow would be welcome
[12:57] <asac> seb128: sure.
[12:57] <mvo_> tseliot: could you please have a look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/120111/ ?
[12:57] <asac> i guess we are still nice about FFe because of sponsoring backlog?
[12:57] <mvo_> tseliot: happens duirng a test upgrade from intrepid->jaunty
[12:57] <mvo_> (regular ubuntu-desktop install)
[12:58] <seb128> asac: yeah, exception should be easy to get now, I'm happy to grant any reasonable universe desktopish one
[12:58] <seb128> GNOME has a standing freeze exception
[12:59] <asac> mvo_: Feb 19 13:43:52 ubuntu NetworkManager: <info>  HAL disappeared
[12:59] <asac> that one doesnt have a reappeared?
[13:00] <mvo_> asac: no idea, I can run it again and see if the same happens, it was not finished when I uploaded the syslog
[13:01] <asac> mvo_: ok so hal disappeared and then you ran dhclient manually?
[13:03] <mvo_> asac: yes, to get network to scp the file
[13:04] <asac> mvo_: can you please run lshal before you start upgrading and also after hal was restarted ?
[13:04] <asac> and keep that output?
[13:05] <asac> maybe the pci id changes or something and NM thinks its a different device ...  but then it should just reconnect - did NM do that?
[13:05] <asac> mvo_: ?
[13:05] <mvo_> asac: no, it did not reconnect for me
[13:05] <mvo_> asac: I wait for the hal restart and then do another lshal
[13:06] <mvo_> (that will take a bit)
[13:06] <mvo_> its still downloading
[13:06] <asac> mvo_: at best before and after your network is down ;)
[13:06] <mvo_> now its running
[13:06] <asac> yeah. thanks
[13:07] <asac> hmm
[13:07] <asac> Feb 19 13:36:04 ubuntu NetworkManager: <info>  HAL re-appeared
[13:07] <asac> Feb 19 13:36:04 ubuntu NetworkManager: nm_device_get_managed: assertion `NM_IS_DEVICE (device)' failed
[13:08] <mvo_> the good news is that there is no crash apparently :)
[13:21] <mvo> asac: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo//lshal-before and http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo//lshal-after - but hte later looks re
[13:21] <mvo>  really strange, just two devices left in it
[13:22] <asac> mvo: search for net.80203
[13:22] <asac> so NM wants devices with capability net.80203
[13:22] <asac> for wired
[13:22] <asac> your first one has one such device ... the next one has none
[13:23] <asac>  -> hal bug for sure
[13:23] <tseliot> mvo: if I import NvidiaDetector from the interpreter I can't trigger the problem
[13:23] <asac> not saying that NM has no bug ;)
[13:23] <asac> well hal or below
[13:23] <mvo> tseliot: it might be a problem with python modules not available during the upgrade
[13:24] <asac> mvo: are you sure hal is running "after"
[13:24] <asac> let me try what happens if i tear it down
[13:25] <asac> mvo: so ... i stopped hal and i am still here ;)
[13:25] <mvo> it was running, otherwise lshal does not give output afaics
[13:25] <tseliot> mvo: weird, that module is included in the nvidia-common package
[13:26] <asac> mvo: does restarting hal help?
[13:26] <asac> e.g. are ther emore devices again?
[13:27] <mvo> hm, now its not running
[13:27] <asac> mvo: but lshal gives an error then right?
[13:27] <mvo> tseliot: you could try "export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove" at the top of the rules file to prevent it from using its symlink sutff
[13:28] <mvo> asac: restarting it manually helps
[13:28] <mvo> asac: now I have 39 device
[13:30] <mvo> tseliot: let me check that
[13:30] <tseliot> mvo: ok but how do I test it? Or how do I simulate a dist-upgrade to make sure that this change fixes that
[13:30] <tseliot> ok
[13:32] <mvo> tseliot: hrm, nomove may not be enough becasuse we move to python2.6 soonish
[13:32] <mvo> tseliot: hm,
[13:32] <mvo> hm
[13:33] <asac> mvo: for me it looks a bit like hal is really down for you (according to syslog it disappeared and never came back)
[13:33] <asac> couuld be that dbus has issues
[13:33] <mvo> tseliot: but its probably worthwhile to upload with nomove, probably not worse than the current situation :/
[13:34] <mvo> tseliot: (no offense, its just that python packages are problematic since some time for upgrades)
[13:35] <mvo> that has nothing to do with nvidia-common, python-apt is having the same problems for example
[13:35] <tseliot> mvo: ok, let me commit the change to my bzr branch.
[13:35] <mvo> tseliot: thanks, I'm happy to sposnor and re-test
[13:35] <asac> mvo: triggered) in postinst is what?
[13:35] <asac> obviously "trigger" ;)
[13:36] <mvo> asac: it seems like it is restart once when it comes back (with limited output) and once when its gone
[13:36] <asac> mvo: why would it be restarted twice?
[13:36] <mvo> asac: do you still have the bugnumer at hand?
[13:37] <asac> are we sure udev and dbus are in proper state?
[13:37] <mvo> asac: no
[13:37] <mvo> asac: I mean, they may be in some strange limbo too, dbus may not like it that its not restarted for example
[13:38] <asac> right. maybe format changed or something and reload with the old daemon causes bad parsing
[13:38] <asac> or other errors
[13:38] <asac> what about udev ... is that restarted/reloaded?
[13:38] <mvo> yeah
[13:38] <mvo> I don't think so
[13:38] <mvo> the logs show nothing
[13:38] <asac> let me get the package
[13:39] <asac> mvo: http://pastebin.com/fd2a75be see line 191
[13:40] <mvo> hm
[13:40] <asac> also the # upgrade from intrepid hack ;)
[13:40] <asac> rm_ubunut_rules sounds a bit harmful
[13:41] <asac> so maybe its a bad order like:
[13:41] <asac> hal restarted with old udev ... and then udev restarted ;)
[13:42] <mvo> quite possible
[13:42] <asac> or hal not restarted, but udev and hal cheking whether devices it has in cache still exist ;)
[13:42] <asac> and they are not there and then we just have 2 devices ;)
[13:42] <asac> speculation speculation
[13:42] <tseliot> mvo: ok, I've just pushed revision 10 ( lp:nvidia-common )
[13:43] <asac> pitti: any clue how hal behaves if udev gets restarted?
[13:44] <asac> pitti: we seem to lose a bunch of devices during upgrade in lshal (e.g. from 39 to 2)
[13:44] <asac> mvo: #327053 ? you mean that?
[13:45] <asac> not sure if thats your bug. the bug refers to a segfault
[13:45] <mvo> asac: yes, I added comments
[13:48] <mvo> asac: I attach the full upgrade log when the upgrade is finished
[13:48] <asac> ok
[13:48] <mvo> that should give us information about the ordering of udev/hal restrarts
[13:48] <asac> yeah
[13:49] <mvo> tseliot: do you want me to sponsor it?
[13:49] <pitti> asac: not out of my head; does udev re-send all the device information (i. e. do a coldplug) when it gets started?
[13:49] <tseliot> mvo: yes, please
[13:49] <pitti> asac: I don't think I ever manually restarted udev and watched
[13:49] <asac> pitti: thats what i am wondering about too
[13:50] <asac> pitti: does udev actually push or does lshal pull?
[13:50] <asac> err hal ;)
[13:50] <asac> toomanytimeslshal ;)
[13:53] <pitti> asac: udev pushes
[13:54] <pitti> asac: particularly, it sends "kevents" over the udev socket
[13:57] <pitti> asac: try sudo udevadm monitor --environment
[13:57] <pitti> asac: that's pretty much the same what hal sees
[13:57] <asac> thanks
[13:57] <asac> let me check what happens when i restart udev
[14:01] <mvo_> asac: yep, confirmed. at some point, hal stops running, lets see if it gets started again
[14:01] <asac> mvo_: sure apport is on ? ... maybe it crashed?
[14:02] <asac> you probably could run hald --no-daemon or something manually before upgrading
[14:03] <asac> or hope that apport always works ;)
[14:03] <pitti> hal is stopped/restarted in the init scripts
[14:04] <mvo_> asac: apport is on (and detected a nvidia-detector crash ;) - but no hal crash
[14:04] <mvo_> yeah, probably stopped and not yet restarted
[14:05] <mvo_> asac: eh, hald --no-daemon for testing?
[14:05] <mvo_> asac: or as a general workaround ?
[14:05] <asac> mvo_: for testing and to run it in gdb ;)
[14:05] <asac> in case it segfaults
[14:05] <asac> --daemon=no
[14:05] <asac> it is
[14:05] <pitti> and --verbose=yes
[14:05] <mvo_> I don't think it does
[14:06] <mvo_> ok
[14:06] <mvo_> will do that for the next run (after this one is finished)
[14:14] <mvo_> asac: hal is not available simply because its stopped and then much later restarted (commmon beavhiour of daemons during upgrades)
[14:14] <mvo_> asac: log is attached
[14:15] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: good morning
[14:15] <asac> mvo_: thats a problem then
[14:15] <asac> pitti: why does hal do that?
[14:15] <kenvandine> good morning rickspencer3
[14:16] <asac> mvo_: can you actually associate the hal-goes-down event with network manager stopping device?
[14:17] <mvo_> asac: yes, but for the first hal restart already at around ~20% (see the bugreport for the correct number)
[14:19] <asac> mvo_: it says "restarting" not stopping for both times
[14:20] <pitti> asac: it's just the standard dh_installinit behaviour; we can certainly fix it if needed
[14:24] <asac> mvo_: sorry. all good. i was dumb enough to not search everything ;)
[14:24] <asac> mvo_: still the first few times it just gets restarted
[14:25] <asac> but wll. i will stare a bit more at the logs tomorrow
[14:26] <mvo_> asac: thanks, the image is here, so testing it is easy
[15:43] <seb128_> tseliot: there?
[16:36]  * pitti sets stracciatella-session to "beta available" and hugs everyone
[16:37]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[16:37] <seb128> that was a quick drafting to beta round!
[16:37] <pitti> indeed
[16:46] <kenvandine> pitti: so we should get stracciatella-session soon?
[16:47] <pitti> kenvandine: soon? it's in jaunty since yesterday :)
[16:47] <kenvandine> hehe... hummm
[16:47] <pitti> free ice cream for everyone!
[16:47] <kenvandine> i didn't see it
[16:47]  * kenvandine logs out to see
[16:47] <pitti> kenvandine: did you install it?
[16:47] <kenvandine> oh... i thought i would just get it :)
[16:48] <kenvandine> so it isn't by default...
[16:48] <pitti> no, that's as I understood the requirements
[16:48] <kenvandine> ok
[16:48] <pitti> and we also don't want to install the extra stuff onto the CDs, etc.
[16:48] <kenvandine> true
[16:48] <pitti> right now it's just notification-daemon, but in the future there's likely more stuff
[16:49] <seb128> pitti: speaking about CD space the evolution split didn't make any difference apparently?
[16:49] <pitti> seb128: it did, slangasek immediately added langpacks
[16:49] <seb128> ah ok
[16:49] <seb128> I just looked on cdimage
[16:49] <seb128> do you know which ones he managed to add?
[16:50] <pitti> seb128: it includes French ;)
[16:50] <seb128> yeah!
[16:50]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[16:50] <Davedan2> On XP I'm using notepad++. Is there something similar on ubuntu? A light-weight code editor
[16:50] <pitti> seb128: I told him that was a non-negotiable condition for you to apply that change :-P
[16:50] <seb128> you were right ;-)
[16:50] <seb128> Davedan2: try #ubuntu for user questions
[16:51] <seb128> Davedan2: you can try anjuta or gedit
[16:51] <pitti> Davedan2: gedit isn't really too bad
[16:51] <Davedan2> pitti: does gedit have syntax highliteing?
[16:52] <seb128> yes
[16:52] <Davedan2> thanks
[16:52] <seb128> it uses gtksourceview
[16:52] <Davedan2> what kind of quetion should I ask here and what on ubuntu?
[16:52] <seb128> this chan is not one for question but rather to discuss desktop work
[16:53] <Davedan2> k
[16:53] <seb128> #ubuntu is an user channel where you can ask questions
[16:54] <kenvandine> pitti: so should i get the old notification-daemon if i login with that session?
[16:54] <pitti> kenvandine: yes
[16:54] <kenvandine> pitti: i actually get no notifications..
[16:55] <pitti> hm, that's a bug then
[16:55] <pitti> kenvandine: echo $GDMSESSION?
[16:55] <pitti> kenvandine: is notification-daemon running?
[16:55] <kenvandine> notification-daemon isn't running
[16:56] <kenvandine> GDMSESSION is gnome-stracciatella
[16:57] <kenvandine> oh... it wasn't installed :)
[16:58] <kenvandine> that's better... installing it again did the trick
[16:59] <pitti> kenvandine: hm, stracciatella-session should depend: notification-daemon
[16:59] <kenvandine> it didn't pull it in :/
[16:59] <pitti> and it does
[16:59] <pitti> Package: gnome-stracciatella-session
[16:59] <pitti> Depends: gnome-session, notification-daemon
[16:59] <pitti> kenvandine: weird; how did you install this?
[17:00] <kenvandine> apt-get install gnome-stracciatella-session
[17:00] <kenvandine> didn't include any deps
[17:00] <pitti> kenvandine: if you can reproduce this, I'd be very interested
[17:00] <pitti> kenvandine: oh, I know!
[17:00] <seb128> pitti: notification-osd privides it
[17:00] <pitti> Package: notify-osd
[17:00] <pitti> Provides: notification-daemon
[17:00] <kenvandine> whoops
[17:00] <seb128> right
[17:00] <pitti> kenvandine: thanks for pointing out, fixing
[17:00] <kenvandine> :)
[17:00] <kenvandine> np
[17:01] <pitti> (>= 0) should do :)
[17:01] <seb128> pitti: if you don't want to drop the provide just version the depends ;-)
[17:01] <pitti> seb128: GMTA
[17:01]  * kenvandine lunches... 
[17:01] <seb128> wtf gmta? ;-)
[17:02] <pitti> "Great minds think alike"
[17:02] <seb128> ah right
[17:02]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[17:02]  * pitti hugs seb128
[17:05] <pitti> kenvandine: uploaded fixed package
[17:15] <tedg> seb128: bug 331656 adds the autoload feature to pidgin-libnotify.  Works for me in a guest session \o/
[17:15]  * seb128 reviews
[17:16] <tedg> As an interesting side note, should debdiffs be "UNRELEASED" or "Jaunty"  I'm not sure what the right answer is there.
[17:17] <seb128> tedg: neither of those, "jaunty" ;-)
[17:17] <tedg> seb128: Heh okay.
[17:19] <seb128> tedg: looks good to me too
[17:19]  * seb128 sponsors
[17:21] <tedg> seb128: Great, thanks!
[17:23] <seb128> tedg: thanks for sending the patch upstream too, you know about the patch tagging guidelines btw? ;-)
[17:24] <tedg> seb128: Yes, I need to get on that.  What's frustrating about that is there's no way to migrate the comments with the patch.  So for like the indicate one, changes to that patch becomes difficult.
[17:24] <seb128> what do you mean?
[17:24] <tedg> Probably should write a simple tool for that.
[17:24] <seb128> the cdbs-edit-patch dpatch-edit-patch and other quilt commands keep comments
[17:25] <tedg> I'm using bazaar :)
[17:25] <tedg> So the patches get generated by bazaar, which doesn't.
[17:26] <tedg> Perhaps I can add some metadata on the branch or something.
[18:03] <kenvandine> pitti: /me tests
[18:26] <maco> is there a way to change the font size for the new notification system? if not, will there be? that text is illegibly small (IMO) at the moment
[18:30] <kenvandine> maco: seems fine to me...
[18:35] <maco> it's like size 8 text
[18:36] <maco> ok this could be to do with my use case. i'm using gtk apps inside kde.
[18:36] <maco> the text in the notifications is *much* smaller than all the other text on my desktop
[18:38] <kenvandine> mine isn't huge, but seems very readable for me
[18:38] <kenvandine> not using kde though
[18:40] <mvo> mpt: if you have a moment, could you please have a look at the http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Language.png shot? I'm doing the review of arnes changes right now and would like to know if that matches the main window design that you decided on
[18:41] <james_w> maco: I believe it picks it up from the environment, so it may well be that that doesn't work too well under KDE
[21:40] <_MMA_> Ok guys. Need a hand as to where to file this bug. The new notification system hit Jaunty. It uses a new set of icons that don't follow FreeDesktop standards.
[21:40] <_MMA_> That's fine and good but the icons were only put in the Human theme and not a better place like hicolor. So, the system is broken for *every* theme but human.
[21:40] <_MMA_> So the question is, where to file the bug? Notification system or Human icon theme?
[21:41] <dobey> what freedesktop standard?
[21:41] <dobey> only app icons should be installed to the system hicolor theme
[21:43] <_MMA_> dobey: Can you link me to that documentation? And help with this obvious issue.
[21:43] <dobey> i don't know what the issue is. i'm not on jaunty yet
[21:44] <_MMA_> dobey: Pretty much what I 1st posted.
[21:44] <dobey> you said there are new icons which you think should be in hicolor
[21:44] <dobey> but i don't know what those icons are :)
[21:44] <_MMA_> dobey: If you're not on Jaunty, it will be hard for you to help.
[21:44] <dobey> i am guessing they are not app icons, though
[21:45] <_MMA_> So Ill wait for someone else.
[21:45] <dobey> can you not simply list the icons and their installation path?
[21:46] <_MMA_> dobey: Depends on your outlook on what the new notification system is But like I said, it will be hard for you to help.
[21:47] <dobey> if the icons are app-specific icons, then they should probably be doing http://live.gnome.org/ThemableAppSpecificIcons
[22:50] <seb128> lool: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=572502 btw
[22:51] <seb128> lool: I think you asked me to give you the bug number once I open one, that's similar to the issue you had during the sprint