/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/02/19/#ubuntu-devel.txt

cjwatsonRIGHT00:00
slangasekmathiaz: hmmm where can I read about looms?00:00
cjwatsonoh, heh, I think I was 18 seconds late with the kickseed sync00:00
* cjwatson blames his local clock00:00
TheMusolol'00:01
cjwatson... which has yet to hit midnight00:01
slangaseklet's blame Keybuk00:01
sorenhahah!00:02
mathiazslangasek: http://www.flamingspork.com/blog/2008/02/22/bzr-loom-a-bzr-plugin-with-quilt-like-functionality/00:04
mathiazslangasek: https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr-loom/00:04
mathiazslangasek: looms is quilt for bzr00:04
slangasekyes, I gathered that, I was interested in getting ahold of the details :-)00:07
PhillipAhello, does anyone have blender and NetworkManager running on their ubuntu so I can confirm a bug? thanks00:09
PhillipAnon-ati video card preferred00:09
sorenWho can change build priorities?00:10
directhexsoren, an archive admin!00:11
Laneybuildd admin, rather00:11
sorenThinking about it some more, I'm not sure it'll make any difference.00:12
Laneyhttps://launchpad.net/~launchpad-buildd-admins/+members00:12
savvashm... mount command's manpage should be updated for -t ext4 type00:17
slangasekmathiaz: ah, hrm, if you're going to fire off all the patches in a batch, bug reports would probably be better00:31
calcupdate manager autolaunch, ugh, now i just need to go uninstall it entirely since apparently the notification icon wasn't annoying enough already00:31
* calc had thought he had somehow hit the button by accident until he read the bug report that this is a new "feature"00:34
=== pgraner_ is now known as pgraner
directhexcalc, how about xpsp2-style "your pc will reboot in 15 mins for an update"? :)00:40
calcdirecthex: heh that will be when everyone switches to fedora00:40
calcdirecthex: that is one of the reasons I refuse to use XP for anything more than bug testing00:40
=== Cxoliac is now known as Sevink
calcthough there is a way to disable it, that is well hidden, it is the most evil pos00:41
calcthe idea about getting a stock gnome setup though may have more users than originally intended depending on how far these feature changes go00:41
calciirc it was thought it would only be wanted by gnome devs00:42
* calc just used gconf-editor and disabled the autolaunch00:43
StevenKcalc: At least the update icon is unobtrusive00:43
calcStevenK: yea the new feature is that update notifier runs on your desktop every 2 days00:44
StevenKEek00:44
calcso really intrusive00:44
StevenKBad00:44
calcyea00:44
calcbug 331054, its considered a new 'feature'00:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 331054 in update-notifier "Do not launch in background" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33105400:44
* calc hopes the DX team doesn't manage to run off all the Ubuntu users00:45
calcit won't take too much to reach windows annoyance level which will drive users elsewhere00:46
TheMusoThat is a shocking feature.00:46
calcat least the users who don't know how to fix it on their machines, anyway00:46
TheMusoThat will get users in more trouble than it will help them IMO00:46
TheMusoI won't want to have to keep turning that off when I create a fres install/user.00:46
TheMusofresh00:47
calcTheMuso: feel free to bring it up on one of the mailing lists for discussion, apparently it was closed as invalid, since they want it to work that way00:48
TheMusoHrm.00:48
calcthough it looks like this might be a feature request from sabdfl after looking at the bug report :-\00:48
* TheMuso sighs.00:51
StevenKThe bug did say auto-updating isn't going to be the default ...00:51
calcStevenK: auto updating isn't default, but popping up to show you need to update will be00:51
StevenKAh00:52
* StevenK grumbles00:52
calcso every 2 days you get this dumb thing launched00:52
calcwhich i don't even use, i only don't remove it since it is depended on by ubuntu-desktop00:52
slangasekdoes it launch every two days, or only when there are pending updates?00:53
calcevery 2 days with pending updates, so for people tracking development releases, every 2 days :)00:54
calcregardless popping up a large app window is pretty annoying00:55
calci guess they considered the app icon showing up wasn't sufficient annoying so they wanted to make it worse00:55
calciirc it shows up red or something like that when you need to update00:56
* TheMuso will have to test it, and if it behaves badly with accessibility, will have to turn it off for accessibility use cases.00:57
calcthings popping up the user didn't explicitly ask for isn't particularly good ui design (imho), it causes confusion00:57
TheMusoon the live CD/installs etc.00:57
StevenKslangasek: FF is, or is not in effect yet?01:27
slangasekis01:28
StevenKDamn01:28
StevenKSo I need FFe's for all of the stuff I just cleared out of NEW?01:28
FrankT-QcHi ! There's been an important security update in vsftpd and I was wondering to whom should I raise a flag so that it makes it to the repos as fast as possible ??? Any Idea ?01:32
StevenKslangasek: Just worried that I should be processing NEW and syncs differently01:32
ScottKStevenK: From a motu-release perspective we have considered stuff that got uploaded prior to FF as OK even if it got processed out of new later.01:37
StevenKRight, so NEW is okay, but syncs need closer checking01:38
ScottKEven there I'd say if they were ack'ed and approved, pre-FF it's OK.01:39
ScottKUnless someone is starting a new ghc6 transition or something01:39
ScottKSomeone actually asked about updating ghc6 today.01:39
ScottKWe all said NO.01:39
StevenKI've only done binary NEW, so ...01:40
savvasFrankT-Qc: you could try #ubuntu-hardened - other than that, I don't know :) you could also file a bug report and check the box below the report to make it a "security risk" (or something like that) at http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug01:47
FrankT-Qcsavvas : thanks01:49
ScottKslangasek: If we're past FF, then I think a "Hey, stop now" mail would be in order.  I havene't seen one yet.01:50
StevenKIndeed01:50
slangasekScottK: will send it out in a couple of hours, unless you want to beat me to it01:50
* ScottK has to deal with kids for a few more hours, so probably not.01:51
ScottKThe good news is that means I don't have to stay up late tonight to finish something.  I can give myself an FFe on the weekend as easily as today.01:52
slangasek:-)01:52
ScottKslangasek: I changed /topic in #ubuntu-motu.  It's a start.01:53
StevenK$topic =~ s/open/FF (ish)/;  # ?01:54
=== cjwatson1 is now known as cjwatson
ScottKjcastro: Just read your blog on the tool for opening upstream tasks.02:27
ScottKI guess I don't understand what good a blank upstream task does?02:27
calcScottK: well it would make it clear the bug is an upstream issue versus something that needs fixing just in ubuntu02:31
maxbI'm rather getting the impression that the new notifier stuff was landed to get in before FF, not because it was ready :-(02:31
ScottKmaxb: You sound suprised.02:31
maxbnot surprised :-)02:32
ScottKcalc: I guess, it just seems like a lot of effort for little gain unless you are actually going to report the bug upstream and then link it.02:32
* maxb goes on bug-filing spree02:32
jcastroScottK: unfortunately the talk I gave at UDS wasn't recorded but basically, people who triage do a good job at linking once they find that it's an upstream bug02:32
jcastroScottK: so the idea is to get developers opening more open tasks so that triagers can link them02:33
ScottKjcastro: I see.  I guess that makes sense.02:33
=== dmb_ is now known as dmb
ScottKKind of.02:33
jcastrobasically, if developers can grow the pile of possible bugs, it's relatively easy to grind through them and open the bugs upstream02:34
ScottKI see.02:34
ScottKI thought the theory of Triaged was the was when it was ready for developer attention.02:34
ScottKNow I'm confused again.02:35
jcastroit only looks at triaged bugs02:35
ScottKOK.02:35
ScottKI'm caught in a mental catch 22 in that I don't know how you can mark it triaged and not know it needs upstreaming, but I never understand this stuff.02:36
calccool new 5-a-day group :)02:36
jcastroScottK: ok, so when you are looking at a bug and you know it's upstream, you can mark it as such, and then someone like me will go through the annoying (but relatively easier) task of filing it upstream.02:37
calcjcastro: how are the stats tracked with the new group?02:38
ScottKI see.02:38
jcastrothat way you do what you do best, and the triagers can do what they do best02:38
ScottKI guess that makes sense.02:38
ScottKjcastro: OK.  Thanks.02:38
jcastrothat's the /idea/ anyway02:38
* ScottK just wishes he see more triagers doing more than "-> Incomplete, can you still reproduce this in Jauntu".02:39
cjwatsonamen02:39
ScottKI'd even much prefer "I tried to reproduce this and couldn't, how did you do it and can you still"02:40
lifelessabsolutely02:40
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
lifelessI just put my bugs back to what they should be when folk do that to me02:41
lifelessusually with a snarky comment02:41
lifeless:(02:41
NCommanderdoes anyone know why gcj-4.3 on HPPA seems to be MIA?02:41
NCommanderLP says it built02:41
NCommanderthe binaries seem to have vanished into thin air ...02:41
ScottKYes.  Me too, although I'd describe my reponse is these cases more as 'pointed'02:42
AmaranthThe bug team doesn't test the bugs, they just look at the ones that are Incomplete for more than a month02:42
ScottKWe could script that.02:42
AmaranthScottK: It is scripted, the Launchpad Janitor02:42
ScottKAmaranth: That's for after they're incomplete.02:43
AmaranthI guess I missed half the conversation02:43
AmaranthDo you mean the "Does this still happen in jaunty?" ones?02:43
ScottKYeah.02:43
ScottKIt02:43
ScottKIt's a new bug and the first comment is can you reproduce it and set it to incomplete.02:44
ScottKWe could trivially replicate this by setting all bugs to incomplete at the last alpha and then marking them invalid if no one complains by release.02:45
ScottKI don't think this would be a good policy, but it would give us most of the same effect.02:45
calcas long as all doesn't include triaged bugs ;-)02:49
cjwatsonit would give us most of the same effect and it would suck even more completely. :-)02:49
calcheh02:50
NCommander+1 cjwatson02:50
NCommandercjwatson: quick question, how often are the ports alternate CDs being built? Each milestone, or more often?02:53
ScottKcjwatson: I'm definitely not arguing in favor of it, just trying to point out how mechanical the current 'triage' effort it.02:53
cjwatsonScottK: oh, I know02:54
cjwatsonNCommander: daily02:54
NCommanderOh02:54
* NCommander is lagging02:54
NCommanderI thought today was the 20th ...02:54
NCommanderAnd the last build was yesterday02:54
NCommander:-)02:54
* NCommander is actually trying to make our ports be shiny this release02:55
ScottK\o/ boost1.35 fixed on sparc.03:03
ScottKSpeaking of ports.03:03
NCommander?03:03
ScottKAkonadi built.03:03
NCommanderScore!03:04
cjwatsonspeaking of sparc, can somebody fix its asm/byteorder.h?03:04
cjwatsonhttp://launchpadlibrarian.net/22607976/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-sparc.glibc_2.9-0ubuntu10_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz03:04
NCommandercjwatson, testbuilding the fix now03:04
cjwatsonah good03:04
NCommander(I have to build a kernel, then the fixed glibc)03:04
cjwatsonI have a potential glibc change pending for the not too distant future anyway03:04
cjwatsonso maybe we can do those in one upload rather than separately03:04
NCommandercjwatson, powerpc and sparc are looking quite good for this release, and if I can get an itantic, it will look good with ARM :_)03:04
cjwatsonI need to get it tested from my PPA though, so tomorrow03:04
NCommandercjwatson, test what to where?03:05
cjwatsonpotential fix for bug 31321803:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 313218 in glibc "IPV6 causes slow internet access" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31321803:06
cjwatsonit's in 'deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/cjwatson/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main' if anyone wants to try it before I do and potentially hose their system ;-)03:06
NCommanderActually, I can test this03:07
* NCommander has an IPv6 network ... or did 03:07
cjwatsonthat's one of the components of the test03:07
cjwatsonI have an IPv6 network too03:07
NCommanderI haven't reset up the router since I replaced it03:07
cjwatsonalso needs testing from the folks actually afflicted by the bug, though, which is rather more those people who have broken IPv6 connectivity03:07
NCommanderoh03:07
NCommanderWhat did you change?03:08
cjwatsonpulled in a Fedora patch to disable gethostbyname4 for the time being03:08
NCommanderO_o?03:08
NCommanderThat sounds like a necessary bit of code ...03:08
cjwatsonit's from Jakub Jelinek who knows what he is doing wrt glibc.03:08
NCommanderWell, if my point just didn't burn and crash03:09
cjwatsonif gethostbyname4 isn't there it'll use gethostbyname3 - glibc tends to support older interfaces of things03:09
NCommanderglibc's source code scares me03:09
NCommanderI feel like its going to come and get me in the middle of the night and rip off my head03:09
cjwatsonspeaking of middle of the night ...03:09
NCommandercjwatson, I was about ot say it was kinda late your time.03:10
calci noticed we were switching to boost 1.35 but 1.37 is also in the archive, should packages migrate to that instead?03:11
ScottKcalc: We all need to use the same one.03:13
ScottKPlease let's not start another switch right now.03:13
ScottKThat and I just got 1.35 patched to work on sparc.03:14
NCommandercjwatson, do you know about anything on java on HPPA?03:14
ScottKNCommander: I don't think such a thing exists.03:15
NCommander:-/03:15
ScottKIIRC that's what lamont told me.03:15
* ScottK goes back to trying to understand what the heck he was thinking when we wrote this beautiful code 9 months ago.03:17
* NCommander watches ScottK's brain liquidify03:18
ScottKIt really was a lovely way to solve the problem I was having at the time.03:19
ScottKIt may, however, turn out to be just one increment short of extensible enough.03:19
NCommanderScottK, looks like kdebindings on HPPA is fixed03:21
ScottK\o/03:21
NCommanderIts nice to have that fixed.03:21
ScottKYep.  I don't think that's ever built.03:21
* NCommander is officially the KDE port gurur ;-)03:21
NCommander*guru03:21
NCommanderIt did in the 3.x series03:21
ScottKNo mono bindings in KDE3.03:21
NCommanderyay03:22
ScottKWe could have solved KDE4 easily enough be not shipping them.03:22
NCommanderI'm kinda suprised mono is disabled on HPPA03:22
NCommanderIt seems to be supported03:22
ajmitchit probably wasn't supported back in the distant past03:22
NCommandermaybe its worth seeing if we can kick the mono lines from PAS03:23
* ScottK knows just that he wants the fricking package to build.03:23
NCommanderWell, either way ...03:23
ScottKNCommander: Let's get pimlibs built on sparc before another upload first, so it'll have a chance there too.03:24
ScottKThat just needs a publisher run followed by a rescore.03:24
NCommanderstupid question: is porting a feature to a new architecture (i.e., fixing mono on HPPA) affected by feature freeze?03:25
ScottKNCommander: Was the lack of Mono a design decision or a bug?03:26
NCommanderI think the HPPA porting group just never realized mono was ported03:26
Amaranthwho has HPPA hardware?03:26
NCommanderPhysical, or access to one?03:26
NCommanderAmaranth, lamont :-)03:26
AmaranthNCommander: He runs a KDE desktop on there? :)03:27
NCommanderdunno03:28
NCommanderIts a sticking point with me tha tKDE been broken on HPPA03:28
NCommander(actually, just having a hosed port is :-P)03:28
=== Skiessi is now known as Guest424255
TheMusocjwatson: I have managed to get the ia64 kernel down to 10MB, which will appear to just fit inside boot.img. I can't go any smaller without sacrificing functionality. A lot of stuff was disabled and/or built in for the last kernel as it was.04:09
TheMusoNCommander: so you made the fix to glibc? I thought the fix had to be done in the kernel.04:11
NCommanderTheMuso, no, I made it to the kernel04:14
TheMusoNCommander: ah ok04:14
NCommanderTheMuso, ah, the sparc kernel just finished04:15
NCommander(like five seconds ago :-)04:15
TheMusotiming04:15
NCommanderBut ...04:15
NCommanderI built the wrong kernel04:15
NCommanderwait04:15
NCommanderHold on04:15
* NCommander is an idiot ...04:16
lamontNCommander: java/hppa vs doko is a long standing frustration of his.04:17
NCommanderlamont, I take it is a chicken and the egg problem because to bootstrap OpenJDK, you need a JDK already in place, right?04:18
lamontNCommander: doko was at least smashing his head against openjdk/hppa, iirc.  until he got tired of the threads/kernel/libc/whatever-the-hell-it-really-is bug04:20
NCommanderlamont, which seems to have gone away-ish04:20
lamontthe one that has me rapidly approaching the point where I craft the email to ubuntu-devel-announce announcing the retirement of the hppa port from ubuntu04:20
lamontish being the operative word04:21
lamontmostly, we just don't giveback things that we know kill it04:21
NCommanderlamont, well, I haven't experienced the fun it caused with Ruby04:21
lamontbecause, well, it hurts when we do that04:21
lamontNCommander: coolness04:21
* NCommander was one of the people who helped debug ruby on HPPA04:21
NCommanderI'd like to drop jaunty's kernel on the porting box and see if it works.04:21
NCommander^- better.04:21
NCommander(and then run glibc's test suite to see what our breakage level is at)04:22
lamontNCommander: here's a test for you:  pick anything amusingly interesting from _DAPPER_ and build it in a dapper+security chroot on that jaunty kernel - needs to work04:23
lamontat least until jun 201104:23
NCommanderI don't have a HPPA box I can install kernels on04:23
* NCommander has root at an HPPA box at HP, but thats on the other side of the US for me ...04:23
NCommander*sighs*04:25
* NCommander grabs a handbook on SPARC ASM04:25
NCommanderlamont, is there a HPPA virtualization solution? (I've been trying to find an actual HPPA box for some time, but they're damn pricy, even used :-/)04:27
lamontno solution that I know of04:28
NCommanderknow where I can get a cheap box?04:28
* lamont was part of an investigation into virtualizing hppa in about 1992ish, that determined that it would certainly require guest knowledge in lots of places, and then we dropped that04:29
NCommanderok, sparc should be fixed soonish04:30
* NCommander grumbles and backports more fixes04:31
NCommanderlamont, side issue, do you have access to the HPPA build chroots? They're misconfigured to disallow installing unsigned packages. I had a fun build failure in a devirtualized PPA due to that :-/04:32
lamontI'm gonna go with "no" to that, even though rules-lawyers might disagree04:39
NCommanderlamont, rules-lawyers?04:39
lamontNCommander: I have root on just about every machine in the data center.  and the others I have console on.04:40
NCommanderoh, I see04:40
lamontmostly, I'm just tired enough to not want to even understand the issue, let alone fix it.04:41
lamontwhich reminds me... I need to deal with the debian release on the debian/hppa buildd machines04:41
NCommanderlamont, this leads me to my next question on why HPPA is so bleck :-/. I do remember when it was a fairly loved architecture in Debian (before NPTL ...)04:43
lamontand there you go answering your own wquestion04:43
NCommanderOh04:43
NCommanderI'm just suprised HP hasn't sponsored work on it04:43
* lamont goes back to the pain that he knows, with: apt-get remove --purge libvirt-bin04:44
NCommanderouch04:45
* NCommander just wish PA-RISC boxs didn't command such a high price on ebay04:45
calchppa didn't even get bootstrapped until late 2000 iirc04:48
Cxoliacjoin #fedora04:48
NCommanderWell, HP seems to be fairly bipolar on it; I see them moving to IA-64, and yet HPPA is quite common from what I see on their server offerings04:49
calcNCommander: iirc ia64 was supposed to be the replacement... except that ia64 wasn't that great (aiui) once it actually came out04:50
NCommanderWell, ia64's are fairly cheap if your not too picky04:50
NCommanderSomeone told me at UDS that the ia64's in the data center were ebay specials ...04:50
calcNCommander: probably cheap because they aren't very useful, heh04:52
NCommanderwell, I can find plenty of SPARCStation 20's for less than 200 bucks. Might just snag one for installation testing04:53
lamontsparcstation 20 won't run ubuntu, iircf04:57
NCommanderbah04:57
NCommanderSo HP-UX supports Java, so pa-risc support is there04:58
* NCommander takes a look to see if the code to support it is there ...04:58
rootardhi all, quick q on building packages. What mechanism generates the .changes file once all of the .debs and sources are placed into the parent directory of the source?05:25
rootardoh, nm. I need caffeine05:26
ScottKIt looks like at least libgpod-nogtk-dev and possible other binaries from libgpod have fallen into Universe for some archs (e.g. for i386, but no am64).  I was wondering it an archive admin is around who would clean that up?05:33
dholbachgood morning05:40
dholbachbryce: wow... my gdm is in explosion loop of death and I can only click "OK"05:43
dholbachdoes anybody of you have something like this in your gdm log?05:51
dholbacherror setting MTRR (base = 0xe0000000, size = 0x08000000, type = 1) Invalid argument (22)05:51
dholbach ddxSigGiveUp: Closing log05:51
dholbachI believe gdm when it tells me that the xkbcomp problems are not fatal05:52
dholbach> Warning:          Type "ONE_LEVEL" has 1 levels, but <RALT> has 2 symbols05:52
dholbach>                   Ignoring extra symbols05:52
slangasek"error setting MTRR" - that's a hardware matter05:54
slangasekdefinitely no such error in my logs05:54
dholbachI dist-upgaded and restarted - that's what it looks like now (on my nv amd64)05:55
dholbachmy i386 laptop works fine05:55
dholbachand on the amd64 I can't switch to the consoles now05:55
dholbachwhich sucks05:55
superm1slangasek, can you retry the livefs build for ubuntu dvd?  yesterdays didn't come out, and we were counting on some fix(es) in it.05:56
dholbachhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/33129206:02
ubottuUbuntu bug 331292 in gdm "gdmgreeter crashed with SIGSEGV in __libc_start_main()" [Undecided,New]06:02
slangaseksuperm1: yep, running06:02
dholbachI guess that's my issue06:02
dholbachwhat happened to bulletproof X?06:03
dholbach:-(((06:03
dholbachhum, maybe it's not06:04
dholbachI wasn't using nvidia06:04
jdongheh with my video chipsets whenever X really fails it tends to lock everything with it...06:05
jdongI once had a mismatch between the kernel blob and userland that triggered hardlocks...06:05
=== slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: feature-frozen | alpha-4 released | Ubuntu 8.10 released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
dholbachwhat about http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/new-nm-dialogue.png - do we really mean to have that dialogue?06:08
dholbachand why does gnome-terminal crash on me?06:09
dholbachtoday is not going to be my day, I just know it06:09
jdongoh it is definitely one of those weeks where just about everything goes wrong :)06:11
jdongto pile up on my fun stuff this week I lost both of my Firefox profiles... on the same day... independent systems same bug :)06:11
dholbachok... xdm instead of gdm works06:13
Amaranthdholbach: Apps that try to use notification-daemon with buttons get an error that they think means notification-daemon isn't running and fall back to showing a dialog06:16
AmaranthI like how the "You are now running on battery power" dialog has a Cancel button06:16
AmaranthMaybe if I click it the computer will automatically attach the power cord again06:17
dholbachI'm not sure those dialogues help with anything06:17
AmaranthThey don't, it's something no one ever actually saw before because notifications always worked06:17
calcdholbach: does 5-a-day-stats get automatically updated by just joining the group now?06:18
johanbrAmaranth: That's apparently supposed to act as a reminder to patch those applications.06:19
dholbachcalc: that's the plan - I still have to do some work to do for that06:19
calcdholbach: ok06:19
dholbachcalc: now that I can log in to GNOME again, I'm one step closer to doing it :)06:19
calcdholbach: heh :)06:19
dholbachok, it's bug 33132406:20
ubottuBug 331324 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/331324 is private06:20
slytherinCan any of the archive admins please rescore libdvdread on ia64, hppa and armel? It is stuck at score 3255 for more than 30 hours.06:22
Mithrandirslytherin: no.  Done.06:25
Mithrandir(you need a buildd admin, not an archive admin)06:25
slytherinMithrandir: thanks06:28
ScottKslytherin: There is a bit of a line tonight.06:28
MithrandirScottK: though, if people are actively waiting for something to build, I'm happy to rescore it so they don't get blocked.06:32
ScottKMithrandir: Sure, I just mentioned it in there interests of 'nothing's wronge except everyone uploading tons the day before FF.'06:33
Mithrandiroh, sure.06:33
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
slangaseksuperm1: still fails to build; langpack conflicts07:13
slangaseklooks like it's because of the long build queues07:13
stefanlsdDoes anyone know if mom data is available in xml or csv or somthing?07:40
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
pittiGood morning08:09
ion_Hi08:09
KoonGood morning pitti08:12
scizzo-morning08:14
primes2hpitti: Good morning.08:14
dholbachpitti: do you know why bug 330621 was not retraced yet?08:16
ubottuBug 330621 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/330621 is private08:16
PecisDarbspitti: good morning, can I talk with you for a minute? :)08:21
pittiMeh, X froze again while I was showering08:48
pittiPecisDarbs: pong08:48
pittidholbach: when was it filed?08:49
dholbachpitti: nm, saw your conversation with seb128 about the retracer08:50
pittidholbach: "my conversation"?08:50
pittiit might be stuck again, but I didn't get a warning mail08:50
* pitti checks08:50
pittidholbach: oh, was it amd64? the retracer got stuck apparently08:52
* pitti restarts it08:52
pittiseb128: ^ FYI08:52
seb128pitti: cf #distro08:52
seb128pitti: stop ignoring me there dude ;-)08:52
pittiseb128: didn't see anything08:52
beunopitti, mine is freezing as well (we seem to share a lot of hardware!). I also have to log in twice to gdm. Is that a known issue?08:52
pittibeuno: happens to me, sometimes, a few minutes after suspend from hibernate; otherwise it's behaving08:53
beunopitti, it has happened to me twice in the past few days, but not related to hibernating or suspending, unfortunetly08:54
pittibeuno: can you still ssh in?08:56
pittibeuno: I can, and I tried stracing X, and got a busy loop with08:56
pitti--- SIGALRM (Alarm clock) @ 0 (0) ---08:56
pittisigreturn()                             = ? (mask now [])08:56
pittiioctl(11, 0x40046445, 0xbfb8e4a4)       = -1 EINTR (Interrupted system call)08:56
beunopitti, ah, I haven't tried. Will do next time.08:57
=== kagou` is now known as kagou
\shsoren: you have main powers, right? would you like to review bug #331410 (jaunty debdiff) for net-snmp09:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 331410 in net-snmp "CVE-2008-6123: not fixed in latest security releases" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33141009:00
pittibeuno: me too, I'll check if it's the same next time09:01
pittibeuno: oh, and I just tried stracing X in X; don't do that...09:01
pittigives a nice lockup :)09:01
beunohahah09:02
ion_:-D09:02
=== GuilhermeCunha is now known as guilhermeCunha
pittissh'ing in and kill -9'ing strace recovers, though09:03
beunopitti, other than those two things, Jaunty seems much more solid than Intrepid09:03
pittitseliot: btw, did GNOME stop respecting .config/monitors.xml a week ago (or so) as well?09:03
pittitseliot: that's pretty nasty, I always have to start the session with reconfiguring screens, compiz --replace, killall gnome-panel..09:04
pittibeuno: what hardware do you have?09:04
* pitti -> back in 509:04
tseliotpitti: no, did you file a bug report about it?09:04
beunopitti, dell xps1330 with GM965 and 3945ABG09:05
tseliotpitti: if you do, I'll be happy to fix that09:08
pittitseliot: yes, I did, let me find it09:15
pittitseliot: bug 32941009:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 329410 in gnome-control-center "does not set configured resolutions at GNOME startup any more" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32941009:16
pittitseliot: .config/monitors.xml didn't change AFAICS (did it?), so it seems that gnome-settings-daemon or whatever else is responsible for reading and acting on it doesn't work any more?09:16
tseliotpitti: no but there can be different (temporay) configuration files. I'll try to reproduce the problem here and I'll fix it09:18
pittitseliot: it just seemed to coincide with the new-style capplet (separate on/off, and so on)09:21
pittimight be pure coincidence, though09:21
pittitseliot: is g-settings-daemon the piece that should read it?09:21
tseliotpitti: yes, through libgnome-desktop.09:22
pittiah09:22
pittitseliot: so maybe something was ported to drop libgnome?09:22
tseliotpitti: I've done some serious work on it therefore I should be able to figure out where the problem lies09:22
pitti  * debian/control.in:09:22
pitti     - the new version doesn't require libesd, libpulse, libgnomeui09:22
pittignome-settings-daemon (2.25.2-0ubuntu1) jaunty; urgency=low09:22
tseliotI doubt they can be the cause of the problem09:23
pittiah, no, that's too  old09:23
pittiit just stopped working a week ago or so09:23
tseliotI have some suspects ;)09:24
=== guilhermeCunha is now known as GuilhermeCunha-
pittiArneGoetje: hardy/intrepid-proposed langpacks accepted09:43
cjwatsonNCommander: java/hppa> absolutely no idea09:51
cjwatsonTheMuso: ia64 kernel> thanks, sounds good09:52
PecisDarbspitti: did a changes in sl-modem-daemon.init patch you suggested, a little bit optimized all alsaload along the way. Patch attached to bug report.09:59
pittiPecisDarbs: great, thanks09:59
majeruhello, i'd like to propose some enhancements to the display manager applet, is there anyone that is in charge with it?10:00
pittianyone on current KDE? can you tell me where Konqueror stores its cookie file/database?10:01
pittimajeru: display manager applet? you mean the fast user switcher in the panel, with your name and status?10:02
majeruno, i mean that one that may change the screen resolution10:02
pittimajeru: tseliot primarily10:02
majeruok, thanks10:02
tseliotmajeru: what's the problem?10:03
=== Nicke_ is now known as Nicke
majeruthere's no problem, i have some usability proposals10:05
majerumostly for those people with multiple display setups10:06
majerulike having profiles accessible from the notification menu10:06
majeruand sub-menus for each display's resoluton10:07
tseliotmajeru: can you file a bug about it and send me a link to it, please? I'll have a look at it later10:07
majeruokay, thanks10:07
ogratseliot, oh, while you're at discussing the screen applet, do you know about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mid-screen-rotation ?10:08
pittiRiddell: can you tell me where Konqueror stores its cookie file/database?10:08
ogratseliot, would be nice to have a version for MID with all capabilities cut out of the applet apart from teh rotation settings, that way we could use it in MID10:09
tseliotogra: it can be done by reusing libgnome-desktop or doing it from scratch10:10
ogratseliot, well, thats what i wanted to avoid :)10:11
ograyouse seems perfect for the task, it just has to many options10:11
ogra*yours10:11
tseliotogra: which one?10:12
ograthe little display i can add to the systray10:12
ograMID uses a systray and the menu apart from the "open display settings" button is prefectly what we are looking for10:13
ograeither bryce to tjaalton told me that you wrote that10:14
tseliotI worked on it but that depends on libgnome-desktop though. It's part of gnome-control-center10:15
ograoh, even the applet ?10:15
tseliotyes10:15
ograah, k, i guess then i'll just steal your code and adapt it in 9.1010:16
tseliotok ;)10:16
ograi doubt we want libgnome-desktop or gnome-control-centerin MID10:16
* ogra needs to reboot after upgrade ... bbs10:16
tseliotit shouldn't be difficult to write something from scratch10:16
ograyeah, i grokked that, but its usually even easier to write a patch that just compiles code again with a different configure option to disable features :)10:17
ograpitti, is it normal that i dont get a reboot notification icon anymore ?10:17
ograi had the popup message telling me i need to restart after the upgrade ...10:18
pittiogra: I'm not sure, ask mvo?10:18
ogramvo, ^^^10:18
ograbut no icon in systray10:18
mvoogra: yes, its all part of the new design10:18
mvohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines10:18
ograhrm, so i dont have a way to postpone the reboot and still have a reminder10:19
ograthats a bit odd10:19
sorenIs there a way to see the the build queue? I mean the specific order in which stuff in "Needs building" is going to get built?10:20
persiasoren, I believe it is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+builds10:20
sorenpersia: I was expecting a link that didn't have "jaunty" in it.10:21
Riddellpitti: .kde/share/apps/kcookiejar/cookies10:21
soren-proposed and -backports and all that jazz is in the same queue, is it not?10:21
Riddellsorry for the delay there10:21
pittiRiddell: that's a file?10:21
Riddellpitti: yes10:21
pittiRiddell: thanks a lot10:21
persiasoren, As I understand it, they are different queues, and the queues are processed on the same buildds in a specific order.10:22
persiaHrm.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds seems to also work, but I believe it misses -security stuff (which also uses the same buildds).10:23
sorenpersia: Oh. I thought I tried ubuntu/+builds already. That's odd.10:23
sorenOh.10:23
sorenYou have to sepll "builds" correctly, apparantly.10:23
sorenAnd "spell" as well.10:24
* ogra thought that was deliberate :)10:24
persiaI seem to remember there was some reason why I always use /ubuntu/${dist}/+builds, but I can't recall the actual reason.10:24
sorenpersia: Do you happen to know how to limit it to a single arch?10:25
persiasoren, Only on a per-release basis (e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/hppa/+builds)10:27
persiaThat the generalised form doesn't work might be a bug, but you've the use case for it, so would be the better candidate to file than I.10:27
sorenpersia: That works. Thanks!10:27
sorenIs anyone filling in as the substitute archive admin of the day today?10:35
pittisoren: why substitute?10:35
sorenpitti: I'm told today is a bank holiday in Australia.10:36
pittioh, I see10:36
soren...and AFAIR, it's StevenK's aa day.10:36
sorenpitti: Did you just volunteer? :D10:36
pittinope10:36
pittiI stepped down from archive days :)10:37
sorenDidn't think so, but thought I'd try my luck anyway. :)10:37
* pitti has 150% hands full, sorry10:37
sorenpitti: Don't worry about it. I'll find another helpless victim.10:38
directhexme! me! pick me!10:39
PecisDarbsdirecthex: helpless victims usually don't show iniciative, so keep your voice down :)10:40
sorendirecthex: You're clearly not helpless.10:40
PecisDarbs:D10:40
sorendoing it wrong.10:40
cjwatsonarchive> I'll do some in a bit, but I need to reboot first10:46
directhex(into his vista partition)10:46
cjwatson:-P10:46
=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
MacSlowwhy can't I change the "Importance" of a bug in e.g. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/331235 ?10:50
ubottuUbuntu bug 331235 in notify-osd "Alsdorf doesn't work with composite enabled metacity" [Undecided,Confirmed]10:50
dholbachMacSlow: not in ~ubuntu-bugcontrol?10:51
directhexMacSlow, nobody can unless they have launchpad awesomeification powers10:51
directhexor what dholbach said10:51
MacSlowdholbach, directhex: but I could change the importance of some other bugs10:51
dholbachMacSlow: that were not in the lp.net/ubuntu namespace and your own project?10:52
MacSlowdholbach, directhex: problem there currently is ... there are 3 or 4 pages where pepole can file bugs on alsdorf/notify-osd10:52
Geek`N`ProudHey guys.  Is Ubuntu 9.04 getting Firefox 3.1 at any point?10:56
jeromegcould someone please review xfce4-notifyd which is waiting in NEW ?10:58
cjwatsonGeek`N`Proud: there's a firefox-3.1 package for people to play with; I don't know about the default11:04
Geek`N`Proudcjwatson: okay cool =]11:14
MacSlowwhat's gnome-stracciatella ?11:27
cjwatsonMacSlow: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/stracciatella-session11:29
cjwatsonI gather that stracciatella is some kind of fancy word for vanilla11:29
directhexMacSlow, hard to install on the command line, that's what11:29
cjwatsonactually a bit more than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stracciatella11:29
MacSlowcjwatson, I only know it as ice-cream11:30
MacSlowah interesting11:30
pitticjwatson, MacSlow: it's not plain vanilla GNOME, it still has some brownish bits in it (Ubuntu patches, and smaller Ubuntu changes)11:30
pittiMacSlow: yes, it indeed is a pun referring to ice cream11:30
giskardstracciatella == cream + chocolate drops (icecream)11:31
pittiproviding a pure vanilla GNOME session would be very hard to do with current technologies11:31
pittithat's rather for grumpy groundhog11:31
giskardanyway, i've sent a test mail to my ubuntu.com mail address and suddenly i'm receiving a lot of spam to this address. it's a coincidence?11:34
ogra"some brown crumbs" haha11:34
=== pochu_ is now known as pochu
=== evand_ is now known as evand
=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
maxbWhat determines whether a package is chosen to be in ubuntu-desktop's Depends, vs. its Recommends ? Is it just a matter of a design decision on the relative importance of the package? Or is there some greater significance?12:25
IntuitiveNippleDepends means it is required for the package to function, Recommends means it won't crash if that package isn't there12:26
IntuitiveNippleSee the Debian Policy for the precise definitions of course12:26
maxbIntuitiveNipple: those definitions don't really apply to a metapackage12:27
maxbubuntu-desktop doesn't "function" it just exists to cause the package manager to behave in certain ways12:27
IntuitiveNipplePolicy seems pretty clear to me: "The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations"12:31
IntuitiveNipple"This declares an absolute dependency. A package will not be configured unless all of the packages listed in its Depends field have been correctly configured"12:31
cjwatsonmaxb: loosely, the intent is that Depends are core parts of the desktop without which it really isn't the Ubuntu desktop, and Recommends are things like applications that you can reasonably swap out for alternatives12:31
cjwatsonthis is not necessarily implemented entirely consistently, but that's the idea12:31
cjwatsonIntuitiveNipple: I think he understands that, he's asking for reasoning12:32
* maxb wonders whether the argument "notify-osd can reasonably be swapped out for notification-daemon, please demote to recommends" would gain any sympathy12:33
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: Hah! While you're there. Those partman issues with Ubiquity... I've supported two other users via remote SSH with the similar situations. One was caused by the 'Automatic resize' option and left the partition table on-disk different to the one in-memory.12:33
cjwatsonI'm not here for long enough to diagnose that :-) I'm about to go out for lunch12:33
cjwatsonI assume you are busy gathering all the necessary log files, preferably including a hex dump of the boot sector12:34
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: No, I'm not expecting you to.... just a heads-up ... I spent 6 hours on it.12:34
cjwatson(od -Ax -tx1 -N512 /dev/sda)12:34
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: I have enough that I *hope* (when I can find time) to be able to reproduce it in a VM12:34
cjwatsonIntuitiveNipple: sounds like the sort of thing that could be caused by a missing ped_commit_to_disk or whatever it is, and that could well be due to a partman logic bug; /var/log/partman will be necessary12:34
TuTUXGafter update the restricted-modules, nvidia driver(180.29) keeps crash my X, I can see the nvidia logo but cannot get into gdm screen, any ideas?12:35
cjwatsonmaxb: do bear in mind, though, that it is not a design goal of Ubuntu that all conceivable changes can be made without removing the ubuntu-desktop package; indeed for certain changes it makes sense to remove ubuntu-desktop, since you're now taking broad responsibility for your own package selection12:35
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: It caused 'logical partition to overlap extended' - due to multiple sub-extended partition sectors12:36
TuTUXGjaunty12:36
cjwatsonwhat is a "sub-extended partition sector"?12:36
cjwatsonthe sector vs. cluster thing that you were talking about earlier?12:36
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: primary -> extended > extended > extended12:36
cjwatsonoh, you mean chained extended partitions12:37
IntuitiveNipplecjwatson: Yes :)12:37
IntuitiveNippleThe user's situation was two existing file-systems, one at start of disk, one towards the end, and resized to create gaps between where new extended/logical were created... poor thing just got itself confused :)12:38
ogracjwatson, did you make the changes for nslu2 in d-i to disable the keyboard selection ?12:39
ogra(the stuff i verified recently)12:40
cjwatsonogra: you mean removing console-setup-udeb? no, not yet12:43
cjwatsonogra: I'll do it after lunch12:43
ogracjwatson, there was more ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/120104/12:43
ograthough it still hits oom ... i'll need to see what i can do about bug 33151012:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 331510 in linux "ixp4xx kernel to big to use with debian-installer on NSLU2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33151012:44
pittiapw: just reviewed https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~apw/apport/suspend-resume-pt3/+merge/3684, needs some changes12:44
apwpitti, no problem12:44
apwpitti, where will you feedback?12:46
pittiapw: I did it in the merge request itself12:47
apwcool12:47
pittiapw: but great idea to autoamtically include it in the bug title -- that will also help to avoid filing dupes12:49
pittisince LP proposes existing bugs with the same title12:49
apwyeah i see how i missed the dmidecode one as the resume stuff is always root, bah12:49
pittiapw: I really think the existing info from hal should suffice12:50
apwyeah it does, i wish i'd noticed it was in there, i've been asking people for info12:50
apwwhich was hiding there all alone!12:50
pittiI guess it's not immediately visible, since it's an attachment12:51
apwyeah, silly error on my part12:51
ograalso please dont forget that we support arches that dont have PCI busses exposed to the system or dont have dmidecode :)12:51
apwyeah i knew that, and expect it to just add a not found to the report12:51
ograi.e. make them fail gracefully please if you implement something based on it12:51
pittiapw: also, do you actually need to run attach_hardware? the linux package hook already does that12:51
apwit gets run after the report generator runs12:52
pittiapw: if it isn't there on existing reports, then there's something wrong with the hook, or how it is called12:52
apwso i don't have the pr[Hal] th12:52
apwthing defined yet12:52
pittiright, indeed12:52
apwit gets defined on submit, ie after i needed it to set the title12:52
apwthat was one of my queries, if there was a correct way to run the hooks earlier12:52
apwi could add it unconditionally to all kernel reports i believe12:54
apwie, not doing it in the suspend specific parts, but it does feel like it would be nice to have it possible there12:54
apwpitti, it is a little supprising that the hooks don't run at apport.report.Report('foo') time12:55
pittiapw: they can't, they need the SourcePackage: and Package: fields first12:55
apwperhaps we could offer an optional12:55
apwapport.hookutils.trigger_hooks()12:56
pittiapw: so, for now it's fine to call attach_hardware in your script12:56
apwwhich runs them ealrly12:56
pittiapw: that's report.add_hookinfo()12:56
pittiadd_hooks_info(), sorry12:56
apwdoes it handle being run twice cleanly12:56
apwie. do nothing the second time.12:56
apwif so then that might be a clean way to do it12:56
pittishould, it's just not very efficient12:56
apwi add that, and make it do nothing the second time12:57
apwie. self detecting12:57
pittiapw: for now I propose that you just call attach_hardware()12:57
pittii. e. as you do now12:57
apwwill do12:57
pittitake it as it is, parse out system.hardware.product and system.hardware.vendor and mangle the bug title accordingly12:58
apwyep, on it12:58
NCommanderinfinity, or lamont, can someone determine why https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/kdebindings/4:4.2.0-0ubuntu2 didn't get dispatched to HPPA? (its not in P-a-s- as far as I know and 0ubuntu1 did get attempted ...)13:14
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
=== mvo__ is now known as mvo
dokoKoon: were you able to work with the updated ecj and eucalyptus?13:21
Koondoko: not exactly.13:22
apwpitti, ok, i've reworked that branch and pushed it up.  merge request updated13:24
pittiapw: great, thanks13:49
pittiapw: looks great now13:59
apwpitti, cool thanks14:00
pittiapw: I assume that you tested this already? or should I give it another go?14:00
apwi have tested it on my crashy laptop, let me test all three interfaces one more time14:01
apwseems to generate the right thing in all three on my crashy laptop14:02
* cjwatson attempts to resurrect his IPv6 networking14:08
cjwatsonI have to cast Turn Undead on the bloody thing every time I care14:09
mvo_hm, under what circumstance can X_LOADTEMPLATEFILE hang? I get this from grub/ucf on failed upgrades apparently14:19
mvo_when dpkg --configure -a runs for recovery14:19
cjwatsonmvo_: suggests to me that it isn't connected up to debconf properly14:36
cjwatsonif it runs properly, it's just walking through a file, there's no reason it should hang14:36
mvo_thanks cjwatson14:39
cjwatsonmvo_: of course IME the usual solution to this is to sit down and think very hard about what fds are connected to what other fds :-/14:43
cjwatsonsometimes involving paper14:43
seb128jdstrand_: hey, sorry I was busy when you pinged yesterday and forgot to reply to your question yesterday14:51
jdstrand_seb128: np! I know how these things go :)14:52
=== jdstrand_ is now known as jdstrand
seb128jdstrand_: alt-f2 is a gnome-settings-daemon shortcut I think14:53
jdstrandseb128: does it work for you?14:53
seb128jdstrand: is it listed in gnome-keybinding-properties as a "show the run application dialog box" action?14:53
seb128jdstrand: yes14:53
jdstrandodd...14:54
seb128jdstrand: do you use compiz?14:54
jdstrandseb128: I do, yes14:54
seb128could be a compiz issue, though I don't get the bug on my laptop which runs compiz14:54
seb128jdstrand: did you try with a new user?14:54
jdstrandseb128: yes, on my laptop, which doesn't run compiz, it works14:55
seb128that would tell us if that's due to some configuration for your user14:55
seb128I would first bet on some compiz setting creating the issue14:55
jdstrand(the yes was not an answer to your new user question, which is 'no')14:55
seb128could you try with a new user or guest session? ;-)14:55
cjwatsongrr, for some reason connect() to an IPv6 link-local address isn't working14:56
cjwatsonit seems to work to a global-scope address14:56
cjwatsonconnect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET6, sin6_port=htons(46372), inet_pton(AF_INET6, "feac:0:0:1499::11", &sin6_addr), sin6_flowinfo=0, sin6_scope_id=0}, 28) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)14:56
cjwatsonconnect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET6, sin6_port=htons(46374), inet_pton(AF_INET6, "2001:41a8:604::1:1", &sin6_addr), sin6_flowinfo=0, sin6_scope_id=0}, 28) = 014:56
cjwatsonmdz: ^- this is what we were seeing on the plane I think14:57
cjwatsonmdz: aha; the problem is that one needs to explicitly specify an interface when connecting to link-local addresses14:58
mdzcjwatsonweird14:58
cjwatsonping6(8) documents this (-I)14:58
mdzcjwatson: which applications actually let you do that?14:58
cjwatsontracepath6 doesn't14:59
cjwatsontraceroute6 does14:59
cjwatsonas for, you know, actual applications I have no idea14:59
cjwatsonbut at least now I know how to debug my network15:00
jdstrandseb128: I will check as a new user and look into compiz. if it is a real bug I'll file it. thanks for your help :)15:00
seb128jdstrand: you're welcome15:00
=== ember_ is now known as ember
siretartcjwatson: FYI, `ssh feac:0:0:1499::11%ethX` seems to do the trick for ssh15:04
cjwatsonthanks; interesting, that's undocumented15:04
cjwatsonah, it's implemented in getaddrinfo()15:06
cjwatsonso that's probably in fact quite widely-supported15:06
cjwatsonand indeed works with tracepath615:08
calcanyone happen to know if apt package list does not get updated if you are not on a regular net connection?15:24
calceg does it still update across mobile broadband, i'm looking at the script and it looks like it downloads anytime you are on mains power(?)15:24
calcyipee my new laptop hd will be here today :)15:34
pitticalc: ssd? fast as hell? :-)15:36
pitticalc: apt-get> I think that's correct, whenever you have a default route it'll download them15:37
pittiarguable if you are on a mobile connection, indeed15:37
calcpitti: not a ssd but a 7200 500gb drive15:38
pitticalc: wow, that'll fit a couple of OO.o trees :)15:38
calcpitti: yea for the mobile case that could be very expensive and even in flat rate cases usually have low limits15:39
calcpitti: heh yea15:39
calcpitti: the update-notifier change reminded me about the fact apt pulls the data daily15:39
ion_pitti: About three?15:39
calcfor devel releases that is around 1.3GB/month of package lists15:40
pittiion_: heh15:40
slytherinDoes anyone know any particular reason why *ubuntu-restricted-extras has direct recommends on libdvdread3 and libmp3lame0?15:40
pittiion_: well, I never had such a large internal hard disk (my /home is usually 50 GB), and I built OO.o before15:40
pittislytherin: isn't that its primary purpose?15:41
ion_calc: Someone should finish apt-sync. :-)15:41
pittito pull in the questionable codec/CSS stuff?15:41
slytherinpitti: but it already recommends gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad and other similar packages which will pull these libraries anyway.15:42
pittislytherin: ah, I see; I guess those can be droppped then15:42
slytherinpitti: are *-restricted-extras packages managed by any seed?15:43
pittislytherin: I don't think so; apparently it's not even in bzr15:43
slytherinok, then I will update those packages.15:43
seb128_tseliot: hey15:44
seb128_Original exception was:15:44
seb128_Traceback (most recent call last):15:44
seb128_  File "/usr/bin/nvidia-detector", line 2, in <module>15:44
seb128_    import NvidiaDetector15:44
seb128_ImportError: No module named NvidiaDetector15:44
seb128_is that a known issue?15:44
seb128_current jaunty15:44
pittiseb128_: you have nvidia-common installed?15:44
pitti$ nvidia-detector15:44
pittinone15:44
seb128_pitti: I guess since that's the postinst for this one breaking15:44
pittiah, python-central fun15:44
seb128_hum15:45
* seb128_ looks at doko15:45
tseliotseb128: mvo reported the problem to me and I committed what he suggested and volunteered to sponsor the upload15:45
dokowhich package is this?15:46
seb128_doko: nvidia-common15:46
tseliotseb128_:  we tried adding export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove to the debian/rules15:46
saispohi15:47
saispoit's possible to rsync somewhere old feisty* repository ?15:48
pittisaispo: old-releases.ubuntu.com15:48
saispopitti: thanks, will see15:48
pittisaispo: archaeology? :-)15:49
saispopitti: yep :/ i ha ve a lot of feisty server :/ and when i rsync i lost all things ;)15:49
pittisaispo: eww -- not in production on the internet, I hope15:50
savvassaispo: you can upgrade using the alternate cd, choose "No" when asked to upgrade from the internet15:50
saispopitti: it's hard to explain ;)15:50
savvashttp://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading#Upgrading%20Using%20the%20Alternate%20CD/DVD15:51
saisposavvas: with near 12000 server ? ;)15:51
saispopitti: old-release.ubuntu.com have an rsync server ?15:51
ograget some inline skates :)15:51
pittisaispo: I don't know15:51
savvashehe15:51
savvasogra: original :P15:51
saispoogra: in ethernet wired ? ;)15:52
savvassaispo: then support this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/319146 :P15:52
ubottuUbuntu bug 319146 in update-manager "When a release reaches End-of-Life, update manager should show EoL status and provide a link with working procedures and more information." [Undecided,Confirmed]15:52
saisposavvas: thanks to help me ;)15:53
savvassaispo: but the alternate cd and choosing "No" is the only working way I found, I don't know about the servers unfortunately, there's probably a similar "non-gui-through-console" way to mass-upgrade them15:55
=== ssweeny_ is now known as ssweeny
slytherinpitti: should I also remove libdvdread3 and libmp3lame0 for kubuntu-restricted-extras?16:03
kagoubryce, please hace a look at my last comment on #32539416:03
brycekagou: sure16:05
kagouthnaks16:06
kagouthanks16:06
pittislytherin: if it's pulled in by something else, then sure; but these libraries might get dlopen()ed, so please triple-check, and check the changelog why they were added16:08
Riddellslytherin: why remove them?16:10
cjwatsonI'd like anyone who can to test the glibc packages in "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/cjwatson/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main", relating to bug 31321816:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 313218 in glibc "IPV6 causes slow internet access" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31321816:10
slytherinpitti: they were added back in gutsy. No explanation as to why they should be there for kubuntu. kubuntu apps use xine backend by default IIRC.16:10
cjwatsonI'm interested in tests from people with real IPv6 connectivity as well as from people who suffer from that bug, since I've been unable to resurrect my IPv6 setup so far16:10
pittislytherin: for example, some programs used to dlopen() libdvdcss16:10
slytherinRiddell: I am just asking. In case of ubuntu and xubuntu they will be pulled by gstreamer plugins so no point in having those direct dependencies.16:10
BUGabundopitti: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/124338/16:11
ubottuUbuntu bug 124338 in apport "[feature request] apport/launchpad possibility to attach apport report to already reported bugs" [Wishlist,Fix released]16:11
slytherinpitti: right. I will leave them for kubuntu for now.16:11
BUGabundoits failing to build16:11
BUGabundohttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/0.132/+build/87550116:11
seb128BUGabundo: uploaders get build failure emails no need to ping on IRC too16:12
pittidh_pycentral: /usr/share/debhelper/autoscripts/prerm-pycentral does not exist16:12
pittimake: *** [binary-install/apport] Error 116:12
pittiWTF?16:12
BUGabundook seb12816:12
BUGabundoit seems pitti did not read the email in time16:13
BUGabundoehehe16:13
pittiBUGabundo: will look later16:13
BUGabundothanks16:13
BUGabundobtw can I just branch LP?16:13
BUGabundoits a python script right?16:13
seb128BUGabundo: if people don't read there email every 5 minutes that's often because they try to get work done ;-)16:13
seb128there -> their16:13
BUGabundoI know the feeling seb12816:14
BUGabundoI just read the announment and tried to get it16:14
BUGabundoand then found the failure16:14
seb128BUGabundo: well, IRC ping doesn't go in the right direction then, they just add extra noise to the stack16:14
pittiI know, people are probably eager to test apport-collect :)16:14
BUGabundosorry16:14
* BUGabundo shuts up16:14
BUGabundopitti: it will come in handy16:14
pittiBUGabundo: but in general seb128 is right, at FF everyone is busy and needs to batch their work for efficiency16:15
BUGabundoright now I just upload the logs to new bugs and get them marked as dupes16:15
seb128BUGabundo: don't get me wrong I appreciate you being enthousiastic but there is no need to ping people in the second something goes wrong, better to let them handle their schedule and ping after a while if nothing is happening16:15
pittiBUGabundo: feel like finding out what went wrong? it builds fine on my machine16:15
BUGabundohey you won't here from me more about *this* issue16:15
BUGabundopitti: I would if a I new a bit more about it16:17
BUGabundoand right now you guys don't have the time to hand carry me..16:17
BUGabundomaybe next time16:17
pittiah, there's a new python-central coming through apt-get dist-upgrade16:17
pittimaybe doko broke it :)16:17
BUGabundoehhe16:18
BUGabundosee.. know I learned something (from all this noise)16:19
seb128kirkland, james_w, jdstrand: does anybody of you want to process syncs today?16:29
seb128the list has quite some waiting and it would be nice to clean it16:29
kirklandseb128: i can push some through16:30
seb128kirkland: would be appreciated16:30
jdstrandkirkland: leave a couple for me. I haven't processed a sync request yet :)16:30
kirklandjdstrand: :-D16:31
slytherinI have a question. I filed a sync bug today (about 12 hours ago) not knowing FF was in effect. Do I need to convert it to FFE?16:31
kirklandjdstrand: you can tackle them if you want :-)16:31
jdstrandkirkland, james_w: sure-- I'll get started and ping you guys if/when there are any left16:31
kirklandjdstrand: no prob, have fun16:32
seb128slytherin: is that a new upstream version?16:32
slytherinseb128: yes16:32
seb128it's border line then, usually request filed before the freeze are just synced16:32
slytherinOk. I will add all the info needed by FFE to the bug anyway.16:33
slytherinWhen did the freeze come into effect exactly?16:33
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
=== Guest94594 is now known as jelmer
pittiapw: whoops, I forgot to upload apport with your changes; done now16:53
apwheh happens to the best of us16:53
LaserJockis a FFe needed for a new binary that results from a bugfix?16:56
kirklandjdstrand: i found it useful to do a few syncs by hand, and after i got the hang of it, i used syncbugbot16:56
LaserJockit lands in NEW so I'm guessing so, but it's not new source or new upstream release16:57
jdstrandkirkland: that is exactly what I am doing16:57
kirklandjdstrand: ;-)16:57
kirklandKeybuk: ping, regarding pitti's comments on ubuntu-devel@ about powernowd and the server17:01
kirklandKeybuk: we just recently added powernowd to the server to get cpu freq scaling (and ondemand by default)17:02
Keybukdid you add it because of the daemon or the init script?17:02
kirklandKeybuk: init script, i think;  the daemon isn't running17:03
Keybukok, great17:03
Keybukthat's solved by the kernel patches in 2.6.2817:03
Keybukin fact, the init script was broken anyway17:03
kirklandKeybuk: sweet, let me remove powernowd and reboot17:03
Keybukkirkland: make sure you have 2.6.28-8.2417:03
jdstrandkirkland: in the bugs I see 'Sync request ACKed'. am I to assume that this review is required to sync?17:04
kirklandjdstrand: yeah, check that it's ack'd by someone with MOTU or core-dev privs17:05
kirklandjdstrand: you might also check the changelog too17:05
kirklandjdstrand: to sort of make sure that the sync is mostly bug fixes at this point (past FF)17:06
kirklandKeybuk: linux-image-2.6.28-8-server17:06
Keybukkirkland: which version?17:07
kirklandKeybuk: rebooting atm17:07
Keybukthe version is important ;)17:07
kirklandKeybuk: ii  linux-image-2.6.28-8-server       2.6.28-8.24                       Linux kernel image for version 2.6.28 on x8617:08
kirklandKeybuk: rc  powernowd                         1.00-1ubuntu3                     control cpu speed and voltage using 2.6 kern17:08
kirklandKeybuk: ^ removed17:08
Keybukkirkland: that's ok - that includes the right patches17:09
kirklandKeybuk: ls /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ checks out17:09
kirklandKeybuk: rock-tastic17:09
Keybukkirkland: what does scaling_driver and scaling_governor say?17:09
calcthe drive actually arrived, i am somewhat surprised since i bought it from a questionable website17:09
kirkland$ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor17:09
kirklandondemand17:09
Keybukand driver?17:09
kirkland$ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_driver17:09
kirklandpowernow-k817:09
Keybuksweet17:09
calcno other companies in the US had the drive in stock though so i just went for it ;)17:09
kirklandKeybuk: cool, do you agree it's safe to remove powernowd from the server seed?17:10
LaserJockcalc: have you looked in the box? :-)17:11
calcLaserJock: yea and even checked to make sure the drive is listed as in warranty :)17:11
LaserJockcalc: I once bought a CD burner from Walmart that was an empty CD drive case with a photocopy of the burner's frontplate on the front :-)17:11
calcLaserJock: its a new seagate moments 7200.4 500gb g-shock drive17:11
calcabout to rip the tiny 160gb drive out of my x200 to replace it with this17:12
Keybukkirkland: I think I already removed it ;)17:13
KeybukI just didn't regenerate the meta package17:13
Keybukslangasek: if you want to remove powernowd from the archive ... <g>17:16
tkamppeterpitti, I have seen that you have passed the -proposed package of CUPS to the updates. Cab you take the next one from the queue to -proposed? It is supposed to fix 3 or 4 bugs.17:17
kirklandKeybuk: so you have :-)17:17
pittitkamppeter: I'll attack the SRU soon again, yes; these days are just pretty crazy due to FF17:18
jdstrandkirkland: for LPUID it should be the requester, not the acker, correct?17:18
Keybukpitti: btw, have you rebooted your laptop in the last couple of days?17:18
Keybukif not, want to check something17:18
tkamppeterpitti, yes, everyone is rushing in the last stuff, I have done arouind 20 dputs this week.17:19
pittiKeybuk: I reboot every day17:19
pittiKeybuk: I have some recent trouble with suspend/hibernate17:20
Keybukpitti: damn17:20
Keybukpitti: I guess you have a /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq ?17:20
kirklandjdstrand: i put the acker, if the requestor doesn't have commit priv's17:20
pittiKeybuk: yes; that didn't change in ages, AFAIK17:20
pitti(the structure, anyway)17:20
kirklandjdstrand: ie, the person we can track down and ask about it, if the sync goes boom :-)17:20
jdstrandkirkland: is that policy documented somewhere?17:20
Keybukpitti: are you sure?17:20
Keybukpitti: my laptop stopped loading a cpu scaling driver a while back17:20
Keybukso it wasn't actually working17:21
pittiKeybuk: well, admittedly it's the first time I looked into it in jaunty17:21
kirklandjdstrand: I think that's what Riddell advised me in #ubuntu-release17:21
kirklandRiddell: can you please confirm that I understood you correctly?17:21
pittiKeybuk: last time was probably in intrepid or even hardy17:21
kirklandjdstrand: if Riddle confirms, we should probably add that to the wiki page17:21
jdstrandkirkland: yes, I shall17:21
pittiKeybuk: I'm just 100% sure that the actual CPU scaling has always worked17:21
Keybukpitti: what does scaling_driver say?17:21
pittithus I had no real reason to poke it17:21
pittiKeybuk: acpi-cpufreq17:21
pittiKeybuk: I still have powernowd installed; shouldn't I?17:22
Keybukpitti: that at least has likely changed17:22
Keybukpitti: you can safely purge powernowd17:22
pittiKeybuk: $ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor17:22
pittiondemand17:22
Keybukpitti: powernowd's init script _probably_ preferred speedstep-centrino for your machine17:22
pittiI think that was "userspace" in ancient days; is that possible?17:22
Keybukpitti: powernowd does require that to be userspace17:22
Keybukbut the powernowd init script always set it to "ondemand" in recent years and didn't start powernowd17:22
Keybuknow we just changed the kernel config to be right to begin with ;)17:23
* pitti purges17:23
pittiI'm glad for every bit that doesn't slow down my boot ime :)17:23
Riddellkirkland: "first person who knows what they're doing" generally, so if the requester doesn't have upload right but is an active contributor who's likely to sort things out if there's a problem that's ok17:23
Keybukdo you still have freaky I/O ?17:23
Riddelljdstrand: ^^17:23
jdstrandRiddell: ok thanks17:23
kirklandRiddell: thanks.17:24
pittiKeybuk: should that have changed recently?17:24
Keybukpitti: I'm slowly narrowing that down, scarily it seems to only affect certain laptops17:24
pittioh17:24
pittiKeybuk: after purging powernowd17:24
pitti$ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor17:24
Keybukbootcharts I have from thinkpad users don't show it17:24
pittiperformance17:24
Keybukpitti: did you reboot after purging?17:24
pittino17:24
Keybukah, the init script probably changed it on its way out17:24
Keybukas a parting gesture17:24
pittiright and it doesn't scale right now17:24
Keybukreboot :p17:25
pittiheh, no problem17:25
pittiKeybuk: if I'm at it, I'll measure boot time with the kernel du jour17:25
cjwatsonsyncs> TBH I just feed the sync to syncbugbot and let it sort it out17:28
cjwatsonwhich generally produces the original requestor, but ... time17:28
calcdoes anyone know if there is a trick to ejecting an ultrabay device? i have a x200 ultrabase with a ultrabay dvdrw i want to eject but i can't determine how to make it eject17:28
pittiKeybuk: so the 12 second hang from grub to usplash reduced to 5, but total grub->gdm time increased slightly to 54 seconds17:29
Keybukgot a bootchart?17:30
pittiKeybuk: no, I'm usually running without; if you are interested, I can do one17:30
pittiKeybuk: eek, this now pulls in the entire openjdk17:30
LaserJockpitti: apport-collect sounds awesome, thanks for that17:31
pittiKeybuk: with -headless I just had to add a symlink to load the awt library at a different place17:31
pittiLaserJock: \o/17:31
LaserJockpitti: will it just be available for >= Jaunty or can it get backported somehow?17:31
pittiLaserJock: it just needs python-apport (pretty much any version >= gutsy should work) and python-launchpadlib17:32
slytherincalc: is that like slot loading drive?17:32
calcwow hdparm returns 97MB/s for this hd17:32
calcslytherin: its a removable drive for thinkpads, but i can't seem to make it remove17:32
Keybukpitti: oh, if there's a better way to fix bootchart, please upload17:32
pittiKeybuk: not sure how it figures out the library locations; it crashed with "cannot find /something/awt.so"17:33
tkamppeterpitti, I have a little SRU problem. See bug 303691. stek79 reports that the last fix on foomatic-rip (0ubuntu3) solved his problem. Unfortunately I have put a wrong bug number into the debian/changelog and so the bug does not get connected to the package. Can you move foomatic-rip 0ubuntu3 into -updates? Thanks.17:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 303691 in cups "Intrepid, print broken with Minolta PagePro 8L printer" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30369117:34
calcmy desktop drive only does 110MB/s so this laptop drive is pretty fast :)17:34
Keybukpitti: yeah, I know very little about Java :-(17:34
calcis there a high speed non zero device i can use to write data to disk? urandom doesn't seem that fast at least on this machine for some reason17:37
calcits only doing ~ 5MB/s17:38
pitticalc: you could cat >/dev/null an .iso file, to get it into the cache, and then cp it to a new file?17:38
pitticalc: or try hdparm -tT /dev/sda ?17:38
calcpitti: i'm trying to write to all sectors on disk to prime it for smart17:39
pitticalc: but what's actually wrong with /dev/null? I don't think it creates sparse files by default17:39
calci suppose writing zeros may be good enough for that17:39
calceg dd if=something of=/dev/sda bs=16M17:39
pittiif I want to properly delete all unused disk blocks on a HD I'm about to give away, I cat /dev/zero > bigfile and rm it afterwards17:39
pittiand it actually writes down zero blocks17:39
calcpitti: basically i want to force writes to all sectors on the drive because smart needs that (aiui) to detect if there are any bad sectors that need to be remapped17:40
pitticalc: well, at least with the drives I tried it on, dd was okay; that won't catch the reserve sectors, of course, since that's HD firmware controlled17:41
calcso i think using /dev/zero probably is good enough assuming linux isn't too smart and detects the sector is already zeroed out17:41
calcyes, thats fine :)17:41
calcwow intrepid cd is too old to recognize my wifi :-\17:46
cjwatsonslangasek,directhex: I've made britney treat Recommends from packages in Section: metapackages as if they were Depends; so that mono uninstallability we had will be caught in future17:50
directhexcjwatson, that's great!17:50
directhexnow to work on monodevelop17:51
slangasekKeybuk: removing powernowd from the archive> can we have a bug report, please? :)17:55
pittiKeybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/jaunty-20090219-1.png17:56
pittiKeybuk: note that this is with GNOMEified readahead17:57
pittiKeybuk: oh, and I removed l-r-m17:57
slangasekcjwatson: ok, cool :)17:58
=== fader is now known as fader|lunch
pittislangasek: do you just need grub-common in main, or grub-pc and friends as well?18:08
pittislangasek: with just -common I'd have a much less aching stomach :)18:08
slangasekpitti: grub-common now, but grub-pc eventually18:09
Keybukpitti: care to try http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/sreadahead_1.0-1~_i386.deb ?18:12
pittiKeybuk: with the default readahead list or my fat one?18:13
Keybukit doesn't matter18:13
pitti Conflicts: readahead18:13
pittiI see :)18:13
Keybukyou'll have to --force-depends --purge readahead anyway ;)18:13
Keybukthe first boot will generate you an sreadahead pack18:13
Keybuk(wait for /var/lib/sreadahead/pack to appear)18:14
Keybukthe second boot will use it18:14
pittiyay dynamism18:14
pittiKeybuk: when does it stop profiling?18:14
Keybukit profiles for one minute after boot18:14
pittiis that tweakable?18:14
Keybukyes18:14
pittione minute hardly gets me to gdm18:14
Keybukedit /etc/event.d/sreadahead and add -t 12018:14
Keybukfor example18:15
=== mvo_ is now known as mvo
pittiKeybuk: trying...18:15
pittiKeybuk: done18:25
pittiKeybuk: first run with sreadahead: grub->gdm 77s, gdm->desk 46s18:25
Keybukpitti: better with or without18:25
pittikees: second run (with pack): grub->gdm 80s, gdm->desk 16s18:25
pittierm, Keybuk ^18:25
Keybukwhat was it with old readahead?18:25
pittiKeybuk: so, with the grub->gdm is slightly slower, but gdm->desktop is very fast18:25
pittiKeybuk: including GNOME, grub->gdm 50s, gdm->desktop 20s18:26
pitti^ old readahead18:26
Keybukok18:26
Keybukthat fits my own testing18:26
pittiKeybuk: is it expected that bootchart stops working with sreadahead?18:26
Keybuksreadahead is much slower than readahead if you have rotary disk18:26
pittiI didn't get any18:26
Keybukpitti: probably a bootchart bug, I've noticed it fails to run sometimes18:27
kenvandinepitti: bootchart works fine for me with sreadahead18:27
pittinot even a log file18:27
Keybukthe question, of course, is whether sreadahead can be patched to behave like old readahead when you have a rotary disk18:28
Keybuksince it's collector is *far* better18:28
pittibootchart> hang on, I suck; forgot to stop it18:28
pittiKeybuk: do you need bootcharts from both cases?18:29
Keybukno, just your own observation is fine18:29
Keybukproves I'm not going nuts18:29
Keybukafaict. the problem is that sreadahead reads things in by order of when they were requested18:30
Keybukwhereas readahead reads things in by on-disk position order18:30
slytherinmay I please know who processed the sync for libdvdnav? I just finished adding all the info assuming that it was going to be FFE.18:30
pittiKeybuk: sreadahead seems to have very little effect on booting; I see a lot of I/O in actual programs/daemons18:30
Keybuk(sreadahead also runs in parallel, readahead runs in series)18:30
Keybukright18:30
Keybukbecause sreadahead is fighting with the other processes for the I/O they need18:30
pittireadahead in parallel had a similar effect18:30
Keybukand sends the disk seeking all over the place18:30
Keybukpitti: now you have an sreadahead list fil18:32
Keybukchange the event.d start on to "start on starting rcS"18:32
Keybukand delete/comment out the "service" line18:33
pittiKeybuk: oh, the test goes on; sorry, already reinstalled readahead18:34
pittiKeybuk: trying again18:35
Keybukno problem :p18:35
pittiKeybuk: hm, sreadahead doesn't trigger an initramfs rebuild, should it?18:35
Keybukno18:36
pittiok18:36
Keybuk(it's not done in the initramfs :p)18:36
Keybukoh, hmm, that doesn't work18:37
Keybukpitti: that might work with the updated package18:42
pittiKeybuk: you mean "start on starting rcS" won't work?18:44
pittiKeybuk: anyway, I'm producing more accurate numbers and bootcharts for all cases18:44
* pitti -> reboot again18:44
Keybukit'll work with the new sreadahead package I think18:44
Keybukheh, I just worked out why the powernowd init script doesn't work for me18:45
Keybukno, I just unworked it out again18:47
Keybukdamn, it wasn't the bug I thought18:47
Keybuknot that it matters, I killed it :p18:48
pittiKeybuk:18:52
pitti                1st     2nd     start on rcS18:52
pittigrub->gdm       82      84.5    7018:52
pittigdm->desktop    43.5    16      1618:52
pittiKeybuk: so "start on rcS" is not far behind with gnome-tweaked readahead, and just about on par with default readahead18:53
pittiwell, I tweaked sreadahead with -t12018:53
Keybuk Keybuk: including GNOME, grub->gdm 50s, gdm->desktop 20s18:54
Keybuk"on par" being 20s slower ? :p18:54
pittiright, still 16 secs18:55
pittiKeybuk: except that I apparently forgot to rm /etc/rc2.d/stop-bootchart18:55
pittiso it created the bootchart during boot sequence, and doesn't include the desktop18:55
pittigrrr18:55
Keybukheh18:56
pittiso a couple of seconds were wasted on that18:56
Keybukstill slower though :(18:56
pittiyes, definitively18:56
Keybukmuch faster on SSD tho18:56
Keybukmaybe I should just include the readahead code in sreadahead, so it can do both <g>18:56
pittibut right now SSD is still pretty much a corner case18:57
Keybukindeed18:57
Keybukright, bbl18:57
pittiKeybuk: can you re-sort the sreadahead pack by disk order?18:57
Keybukpitti: that's the idea18:57
Keybukie. write the code to do that18:57
pittidepending on whether it's rotary, of course18:57
pittiKeybuk: need any further tests?18:58
pittiotherwise I'll set up my desktop again and continue to do useful stuff :)18:58
pittidear compiz, please react properly to resolution changes. love, pitti18:59
pittis/compiz/gnome-panel/ as well18:59
=== fader|lunch is now known as fader
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
SvendoCan proftpd be compiled with mod_tls as default so there is security for the users accounts ?19:12
jdstrandkirkland, james_w: fyi, sync requests are done for now19:16
james_wthanks jdstrand19:21
SvendoI've been wondering about this for quite a while and appears odd. Why is ubuntu the only distribution that doesnt supply proftpd with encryption ?19:22
infinitySvendo: We do...19:24
Svendoinfinity, how ?19:24
infinitySvendo: It's linked with libssl, you just need to enable encryption in your configs.19:24
Svendo"proftpd -l" tells me there no mod_tls19:25
SvendoTheres no such thing you know19:26
SvendoNot in jaunty either as seems19:26
infinity/usr/lib/proftpd/mod_tls.la19:26
infinity/usr/lib/proftpd/mod_tls.so19:27
infinityIt's compiled as an external module, not statically.19:27
SvendoSo you have to add include statements you mean ?19:27
infinity/etc/proftpd/modules.conf19:28
infinityJust add LoadModule mod_tls.c19:28
infinityWhich is actually there on my config.19:28
infinityI'm betting that "proftpd -l" only lists statically compiled modules, not runtime-loaded ones.19:28
infinitySo, yeah.  I'd say it's working as intended, just configure SSL/TLS in your configs with whatever directives you need.19:29
infinityhttp://www.proftpd.org/docs/howto/TLS.html might prove helpful.19:30
=== asac_ is now known as asac
Svendoinfinity: That is true, all modules are compiled as such. Hence theres trouble supporting this feature on the debian/ubuntu side.19:33
SvendoChecked Jaunty dist19:33
SvendoNext, why cant bind/named be run within a chroot ?19:35
SvendoThis is an outstanding issue with Jaunty as seems .. ?19:35
Svendoand the ubuntu dists before it19:37
SvendoIt would be good if that can be done19:37
infinityadconrad@lucifer:~$ grep chroot /etc/init.d/bind919:37
infinity# for a chrooted server: "-u bind -t /var/lib/named"19:37
Svendocan you start it then ?19:37
infinity(Change OPTIONS in /etc/default/bind9)19:38
SvendoCheck it maybe..19:38
SvendoIn my Jaunty it cant even read etc/localtime19:38
Svendopermission denied19:38
SvendoEven though its started as root19:39
SvendoRead by named:named from the named process and localtime is chmod named:named19:40
infinitySvendo: README.Debian has a pointer to http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Chroot-BIND-HOWTO.html19:40
infinitySvendo: Which should, I assume, hilight the files that need to be copied to the target chroot directory for it to work.19:41
infinitySvendo: It's not going to magically be able to read anything it can't get at, that's sort of the point of a chroot.19:41
SvendoIts not getting permission to read its own files in the chroot that is owned by the process owner. Kinda odd19:42
SvendoCould it be an selinux issue with named running from another directory in /var/named/... ?19:43
Svendoor /var/bind/...19:44
infinityIf you're running selinux, it very much could be an issue, yes.19:44
Mithrandirselinux + chroots is teh fail, according to a friend of mine who played with it the other day.  Well, or at least needs a bit of tuning.19:44
infinityAnyhow, this has gone far beyond a -devel discussion, and is probably more appropriate for #ubuntu19:44
SvendoMithrandir: It cant be told to relax permissions so that named can read its own files ? .. wouldnt this make selinux less secure then ?19:45
MithrandirSvendo: no idea.  I don't use selinux.19:46
Svendosince bind cannot be run in a chroot19:46
Svendoi try to avoid it as much as possible too19:46
SvendoMy trust is with the source ;)19:46
SvendoSeriously, selinux can probably be good but im seeing the opposing factor19:47
sorenIf I have a new package that I'd like to upload, what's the procedure? Should I file an FFe and have it approved before I upload?19:52
soren...and then perhaps reference the FFe in the changelog?19:53
ScottKsoren: Generally it's FFe before upload.19:53
SvendoMithrandir: If the modules where compiled in like in all other dists, then the ubuntu users would have encrypted sessions. Instead they have plain text.. very good :=)19:54
MithrandirSvendo: huh?19:55
Mithrandirwhat does selinux have to do with encryption?19:55
SvendoNothing... you missed the other question i had 15-20 lines above ?19:56
Svendo<infinity> /usr/lib/proftpd/mod_tls.la19:56
Svendo<infinity> /usr/lib/proftpd/mod_tls.so19:56
Svendoit was a few lines before actually19:57
sorenScottK: Thanks.19:57
MithrandirSvendo: no idea, I couldn't care less about FTP.19:57
MithrandirI care less about FTP than I care about gopher.19:57
SvendoYou are a gopher :=) ... dunno the meaning of that19:58
Svendogo pho her ? :=)19:58
MithrandirSvendo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)19:58
SvendoLike in Zak McKracken ?20:00
Svendohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQgWV4tPOQ :)20:01
* directhex attacks Svendo with a bobby pin & some VISA codes20:02
Svendowww.celetania.com20:02
Svendodirecthex: sorry kidalot, didnt see you over that minute wall20:04
SvendoMithrandir: like a sock on a trumpet! ;)20:16
SvendoYeeHaw! /tehb0rk20:18
LaserJockcjwatson: I just tried a d-i install from the current Jaunty DVD and it still has all the preseeding20:42
cjwatsonSvendo: you're going increasingly off-topic for this channel20:45
cjwatsonLaserJock: hmm, so it does20:46
Svendocjwatson: Interresting since i havnt said anything for 30 minutes :)20:47
cjwatsonSvendo: I was away; but nevertheless20:48
Svendoyoure sorry ?20:48
cjwatsonno, I am not20:48
SvendoGo fuck yourself20:48
cjwatson(and don't come back)20:49
Picicjwatson: it should be +b *!?=svendo@ip-187-200-241-92.dialup.nmt.net20:50
cjwatsonwhat's the difference?20:50
PiciWell,  *!Svendo@ip-187-200-241-92.dialup.nmt.net wont match Svendo!n=Svendo@ip-187-200-241-92.dialup.nmt.net20:50
cjwatsonoh, right20:50
cjwatsonwill that do?20:51
scizzo-you learn something new everyday20:51
cjwatsonLaserJock: my own stupid mistake, I think I've fixed it now20:52
cjwatson(perl -ne ... vs. perl -ni -e ...)20:52
LaserJockcjwatson: ok, great20:53
Picicjwatson: That'll work20:53
=== fta2_ is now known as fta2
=== TheMuso_ is now known as TheMuso
ScottKdoko: boost1.35 (at least, haven't checked the others yet) now FTBFS due to the python 2.4/2.5 -> 2.5/2.6 change.  Can I go ahead and fix that or is there more stuff that you need to upload first?23:52

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