[00:40] <slangasek> mathiaz: ping
[00:45] <mathiaz> slangasek: hello
[00:46] <slangasek> mathiaz: hi, is it ok for me to go ahead and assign bug #305264 to you, regarding openldap working around the gnutls behavior change?
[01:12] <mathiaz> slangasek: ok - I'm already assigned to the jaunty task though.
[01:14] <slangasek> mathiaz: rather, I just assigned it to you after asking the question here ;)
[01:17] <slangasek> Keybuk: do you have an ETA for uploading udev 137-3, or could I go ahead and do the upload?
[03:05] <Keybuk> slangasek: please don't
[03:06] <Keybuk> what from 137-3 are you after?
[03:06] <slangasek> Keybuk: er, the RC bugfix that's the only change in bzr?
[03:07] <Keybuk> that's not in bzr yet
[03:07] <Keybuk> it's in udev 138
[03:07] <Keybuk> which I haven't fully merged
[03:07] <slangasek> Keybuk: ok; the bzr log / changelog say otherwise
[03:07] <Keybuk> it came out today, I'll most likely fix it up tomorrow
[03:07] <Keybuk> I put the bug# in the changelog to remind me which it was ;)
[03:07] <Keybuk> I do that
[03:08] <Keybuk> message:
[03:08] <Keybuk>   Apply NAME rules when string_escape=none.  LP: #325690.
[03:08] <Keybuk> modified:
[03:08] <Keybuk>   debian/changelog
[03:08] <Keybuk> --
[03:08] <Keybuk> the changelog was all that was modified
[03:08] <slangasek> oh; the previous commit wasn't related?
[03:08] <Keybuk> partially related
[03:08] <slangasek> ok
[03:08] <Keybuk> it's not complete and introduces new bugs by being a partial merge
[03:08] <slangasek> right, good reason for me not to upload it. ;)
[03:09] <slangasek> tomorrow's fine, just wanting to make sure it's on track for alpha-5
[03:09] <Keybuk> I was just waiting for the upstream release
[03:09] <TheMuso> dtchen: Seen this bug? bug 326596, I vaguely remember why in Hardy we played the logon sound through a newly connected audio device, but I can't remember why.
[03:10] <TheMuso> s/vaguely remember why/vaguely remember/
[05:28] <dholbach> good morning
[06:23] <dholbach> does anybody else get gnome-terminal crashes as well?
[06:23]  * iulian is not getting any crashes.
[06:26] <dholbach> bug 330621 and bug 331462 is what I get
[06:26] <dholbach> it's mildly annoying
[06:31] <greg-g> I think pedro was getting some today, actually
[06:32] <dholbach> it's not easily reproducable but every now and then when I have the gnome-terminal with a few tabs open and ctrl-d-ing out of one of the tabs it takes down the whole thing
[06:32] <dholbach> one of the crashes was within gnome-terminal itself, the other one in vte
[06:33] <greg-g> bug 331740 is pedro's from today
[06:34] <dholbach> interesting, yet another one
[06:34] <greg-g> yeah, very weird
[06:35] <greg-g> but time for bed for me. g'night dholbach
[06:35] <dholbach> sleep tight greg-g
[07:45] <pitti> Good morning
[08:06] <mok0> Packages which are new in Debian Unstable, are they automatically sync'ed when Jaunty+1 opens or does it require a sync-request?
[08:07] <pitti> mok0: they'll get all synced; it's manually triggered, but we'll sync them wholesale
[08:07] <mok0> pitti: ok, thanks, exactly what I wanted to know
[08:30] <\sh_> moins
[08:31] <\sh> jdstrand: bug #331410 complete...
[08:41] <Lure> pitti: are you pushing all the hal-info changes upstream, or should we push it individually? I would like to get quirk from bug 328522 into hal-info...
[08:42] <pitti> Lure: I usually commit them directly upstream, yes
[08:42] <Lure> pitti: ok, will then wait for you to review and commit
[08:42] <Lure> pitti: thanks
[08:42] <pitti> Lure: if you want you can send them to the hal mailing list, but if you attach it to a bug and sub me, that's fine too
[08:43] <Lure> pitti: subscribe or assign?
[08:43] <pitti> either
[08:43] <Lure> pitti: done
[08:44] <pitti> Lure: I'm always a bit hesitant to change existing quirks, because they obviously worked for someone else
[08:44] <pitti> but that might have been with older kernels, x.org, etc.
[08:52]  * pitti arghs at git
[08:56] <pitti> what's the git equivalent of bzr blame -r 407 file.c ?
[08:56]  * pitti looked at git rev-list --help, but that didn't really help
[08:59] <amitk> pitti: git-blame?
[08:59] <pitti> amitk: right, sure, but specifying "everything before this commit"
[08:59] <pitti> but I found a workaround now
[08:59] <pitti> git blame, find the last commit, git log, look up the previous commit, and
[08:59] <pitti> git blame 123deadbeef file.c
[09:00] <pitti> that seems to work
[09:00] <ion_> Would git blame lastcommitid^ foo.c work?
[09:01] <pitti> what does ^ do?
[09:01] <ion_> It should refer to the previous commit.
[09:01] <pitti> I want "blame earlier versions up to, but not including, 1234"
[09:01] <pitti> ah, nice
[09:02] <pitti> ion_: that works, thanks
[09:08] <pitti> Lure: ok, archaeology done and committed, bug updated
[09:14] <lool> doko: I'd like to push a glibc to the archive with support for vfp hwcaps
[09:18] <doko> lool: sure, please go ahead. are test results the same as for the normal build? could you add a file for the expected test results?
[09:18] <lool> doko: I'm not adding the vfp pass yet, that one hangs
[09:18] <lool> doko: But adding the vfp hwcaps allow to proceed to enablement of other libs
[09:18] <doko> ok
[09:18] <cjwatson> hmm, still no testers for bug 313218 ...
[09:21] <lool> cjwatson: I have IPv6, internet is not particular fast, but I don't get the errors the people report
[09:22] <lool> cjwatson: Is there a clear way to see whether I'm affected?  I guess the system call in the strace will be the same
[09:26] <lool> Actually the fact that I have IPv6 connectivity is likely to prevent me from reproducing if I understand the fedora bug correctly
[09:46] <cjwatson> lool: the problem is for people who don't actually have real IPv6 connectivity, especially for those whose routers do funny things with it
[09:47] <cjwatson> lool: however, if you have real IPv6 connectivity, I'd appreciate you testing the package in my PPA to ensure that it doesn't break it
[09:51] <lool> Uh your ppa doesn't have the same pathname
[09:59] <cjwatson> lool: hmm?
[10:00] <lool> cjwatson: I copied my sources.list entry for my ppa for yours, and it failed; it surprized me; it seems we now have a /ppa in the URL; the old URL works for me still
[10:00] <lool> Anyway, irrelevant, ignore me
[10:00] <cjwatson> oh, yes, that was a relatively recent change
[10:01] <cjwatson> I don't use my PPA all that often so it was probably generated from scratch
[10:09] <soren> lool: Yes, it's the first step on the way to allowing users to have more than one PPA.
[10:09] <lool> cool
[10:26] <fta> did something change /wrt cdbs and python? some of my packages now ftbfs because of missing python2.6
[10:26] <fta> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22893842/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.gwibber_0.8-0ubuntu1~jaunty_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[10:27] <soren> fta: Perhaps you're missing a build-dependency on python-all-dev?
[10:28] <fta> sommer, it used to build fine, it started to fail 2 days ago
[10:28] <fta> oops
[10:28] <fta> soren, ^^
[10:28] <fta> sommer, nm
[10:28] <cjwatson> well, yeah, that's when python2.6 was added to the set of supported python versions ...
[10:32] <gnumdk> Hello
[10:33] <soren> cjwatson: How is that defined? I mean... How does a package know that it now has to try that as well?
[10:33] <soren> cjwatson: I was thinking python-central, but its changelog doesn't seem to mention anything about it.
[10:33] <gnumdk> I'm using jaunty for testing but i can't get Xorg to be as fast as Intrepid... I've looked a lauchpad, EXA is slow, UXA is slow and XAA just give me a kernel panic
[10:33] <fta> cjwatson, I build-dep on python python-central python-distutils-extra, it's a bit rude to suddenly fail on python2.6 setup.py
[10:33] <cjwatson> soren: python-defaults
[10:34] <cjwatson> $ pyversions -s
[10:34] <cjwatson> python2.5 python2.6
[10:35] <soren> cjwatson: I see. Thanks.
[10:35] <cjwatson> fta: hardly a matter of rudeness, I don't think the definitions of the build-dependencies have changed ... it's just the sort of thing you only actually notice during relatively small periods
[10:35] <cjwatson> i.e. whether your package is building extensions for things that aren't pulled in by build-deps
[10:36] <cjwatson> as soren says, sometimes python-all-dev is the right answer, or sometimes you only want extensions for a single version; if in doubt, ask doko
[10:37] <fta> well, it's just too bad that I have package in NEW for a few days that will fail because of this. bad timing
[10:38] <cjwatson> you can upload a new version while it's in NEW
[10:39] <fta> seb128, don't bother reviewing gwibber, it will fail because of the new python ^^ :(
[10:39] <pitti> jdstrand: ^
[10:39] <pitti> fta: jdstrand's archive day today
[10:39] <seb128> fta: well that can be newed anyway and you can fix the build in a new revision
[10:40] <directhex> aha, i wondered who had done my mono-addins sync
[10:40] <pitti> directhex: the bug should say
[10:40] <directhex> should fix bugs in f-spot et al
[10:40] <directhex> pitti, it was jdstrand - but i didn't recognise the name
[10:40] <fta> seb128, new push or new version?
[10:41] <cjwatson> change the version number, it's better practice anyway
[11:18] <Mez> is there a bugjam channel ?
[11:18] <dholbach> Mez: it'll just be #ubuntu-bugs
[11:18] <Mez> ah, kk
[11:19] <Mez> well, we're already here
[11:55] <doko> fta: yes, sorry, didn't send the email yet. please could you file a bug report for this package and assign it to me?
[11:58] <fta> doko, hi! it's not in the archive yet. it's still in NEW. I've fixed it and i'll re-submit once i'm sure it's fine (it = gwibber, the micro blogging client for gnome
[12:15] <asac> fta: i would think that NEWing gwibber still makes sense
[12:15] <asac> otherwise it will all start from scratch
[12:16] <slytherin> not sure if anyone has already noticed, but openjdk-6 build on armel is blocking all other builds that might be already queued up on that buildd. Anyway to requeue them on other servers?
[12:18] <fta> asac, what do you mean? let it fail and update afterwards? the fix is ready, i just need to test it on older dists
[12:19] <asac> fta: yes. either just upload new gwibber or wait till it fails and reup ;)
[12:20] <asac> fta: didnt know you have fix ready for upload
[12:55] <highvolt1ge> ogra: nice post
[12:55] <ogra> highvolt1ge, which one, i wrote multiple :)
[12:56] <highvolt1ge> ogra: the one about update-manager
[12:57] <ogra> ah, thanks :)
[12:58] <Keybuk> I discovered with glee this morning that purging notify-osd puts notifications back the way they were
[12:59] <ogra> ah, nice
[13:00]  * ogra did get the ugly little windows all over the desktop last time he tried that
[13:00] <Riddell> calc: any change in the OO icons recently?  my spelling icon has stopped being crystal http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/oo.png
[13:00] <Keybuk> ogra: I get the windows all over the desktop *with* notify-osd
[13:00] <ogra> its fun to get up in the morning and see that you got a small window for every mail you revied overnight
[13:00] <ogra> and i usually get between 150 and 300 /night
[13:01] <seb128> Keybuk: changing the notification will not stop update-manager to be auto-opened if that's what you are speaking about
[13:02] <seb128> ogra: disable the upstream mail-notification option, that's being worked and will not be activated by default
[13:02] <Keybuk> seb128: it will not; it stops me getting a screenful of dialog boxes and those insidious new notifications
[13:02] <Keybuk> I changed the gconf key to stop update-manager being auto-launched
[13:03] <seb128> Keybuk is reluctant to changes apparently ;-)
[13:03] <ogra> seb128, yeah, i found that after a week of a click orgy every morning :)
[13:03] <Keybuk> seb128: not so much
[13:03] <Keybuk> I have all my notifications very personally configured anyway
[13:04] <Keybuk> and that's in the *opposite* direction to what the DX team have taken
[13:04] <Keybuk> so all this new stuff killed all my preferences, and starting throwing pop-ups, dialogs and bubbles all over my screen again
[13:04] <seb128> bubbles go in a specific corner here
[13:05]  * kees is really motivated to test the dx stuff now. :)
[13:05] <ogra> haha
[13:05] <seb128> which is what is supposed to happen if I understand the thing correctly
[13:05] <Keybuk> seb128: I don't want them at all!
[13:05] <seb128> uninstall notify-osd and notification-daemon?
[13:05] <Keybuk> a bubble every time someone messages me on IRC is about the most distracting thing I can think of
 I discovered with glee this morning that purging notify-osd puts notifications back the way they were
[13:05] <seb128> don't enable the libnotify option for your IRC client?
[13:06] <kees> Keybuk: what were you and pitti comparing with boot speed tests the other day?
[13:06] <Keybuk> kees: readahead vs. sreadahead
[13:06] <seb128> I like the volume bubbles in the new system I've to admit, I'm not so much convinced about other messages etc
[13:06] <kees> Keybuk: sreadahead was the stuff arjan worked on for the ssd?
[13:06] <Keybuk> right
[13:06] <ogra> seb128, volume bubbles ?
[13:07]  * ogra doesnt have any display for vol up/down at all anymore
[13:07] <ogra> same for brightness
[13:07] <seb128> Keybuk: is there any known issue with bootchart atm btw? I can do standard bootcharting to gdm but if I use nostop and try to stop it after login it fails and don't create a chart
[13:07] <seb128> ogra: works for me
[13:07] <kees> Keybuk: and plain readahead won out? i.e. no change on our end?
[13:07] <ogra> strange
[13:07]  * ogra checks for updates ... 
[13:08] <Keybuk> kees: on rotary disk, which was not a surprise
[13:08] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah, it sometimes seems to crash - haven't debugged it yet
[13:08]  * kees nods
[13:08] <Keybuk> seb128: it'd probably work if you did it again
[13:08] <Keybuk> kees: more interesting will be to see whether I can patch sreadahead in such a way that it's good for both
[13:08] <ogra> gah, u-m doesnt show the number of avaliable updates anymore ?!?
[13:08] <Keybuk> (with a toggle option)
[13:08]  * ogra scrolls and counts ... how annoying
[13:09] <kees> Keybuk: ooh, that'd be fun :)
[13:09] <Keybuk> ogra: you care? :p
[13:09] <ogra> usually, yes
[13:09] <ogra> but i agree my mother wouldnt ...
[13:09] <ogra> but i like to see how much i get for my money ... thats the german in me :P
[13:11] <seb128> ogra: how does that matter? you get the number while it's downloading
[13:11] <ogra> seb128, *after* i clicked, yes :)
[13:11] <ogra> i like to know it before
[13:11] <ogra> so i can decide if i postpone or if its worth it
[13:11] <seb128> it displays what it will download
[13:12] <seb128> which is the useful thing to know
[13:12] <ogra> yeah, means i have to scroll around
[13:12] <seb128> what and how much rather
[13:12] <seb128> you decide on numbers? weird
[13:12] <seb128> I usually either upgrade or look to items in the list
[13:12] <ogra> having eh number on first look was an intresting info
[13:12] <Keybuk> I don't do any of those
[13:12] <seb128> having 60 or 70 updates doesn't make a real difference
[13:12] <ogra> but i might be special that i want to know it, as i said above
[13:12] <Keybuk> I upgrade just before going to do something when it's really important that my laptop work properly
[13:13] <ogra> having 50 or 250 makes one
[13:13] <seb128> not so much if they are 700 octets each
[13:13] <seb128> how much you will download is rather what you want to know no?
[13:14] <ogra> no, i want to know if its 200 packages that hog my system with postinst and unpacking for 20min
[13:14] <seb128> again that's not the number that makes a difference there but what they do
[13:14] <ogra> the download doesnt hog my CPU and ram
[13:14] <seb128> if you have to rebuild caches, etc that will take a while
[13:14] <ogra> right
[13:14] <seb128> if those don't do anything that will be quick
[13:17]  * ogra needs to reboot after upgrade, else he will forget about it :P ...
[13:17] <ogra> bbl
[13:17] <Keybuk> cjwatson: how do I do an "OR" in the seeds?
[13:18] <cjwatson> Keybuk: you don't
[13:18]  * directhex submits his NM application
[13:18] <Keybuk> cjwatson: oh, I thought it supported that
[13:18] <Keybuk> hmm
[13:18] <seb128> directhex: hey, good work on mono in jaunty ;-)
[13:18] <cjwatson> no, sorry
[13:18] <Keybuk> cjwatson: can you depend on a virtual package?
[13:18] <cjwatson> you need to select one entry that supports both, or have a metapackage or something
[13:19] <cjwatson> I think so
[13:19] <Keybuk> how does it determine which one is pulled in by default?
[13:19] <cjwatson> but exactly what happens is not all that well-defined
[13:19] <cjwatson> the usual "promote from other seed" rules, followed by random
[13:20] <directhex> seb128, thanks - much as i helped a bit with mono in intrepid in the last few weeks, i think jaunty is the release i'm going to feel responsible for in that area
[13:20] <cjwatson> seb128: number of packages does make a difference to some extent, because it affects number of forks required
[13:20] <seb128> directhex: that's very nice to have somebody responsive for that, mono was not really actively worked until jaunty
[13:20] <directhex> seb128, and it wouldn't be remotely as good as it is without help frmo those named in my message to ubuntu-devel (plus the sponsors & archive admins who put up with me)
[13:21] <seb128> directhex: right, still you did a very useful job coordinating those and letting know the lists about the changes, etc
[13:21] <Keybuk> is expiration not working on Launchpad?
[13:21] <Keybuk>  This bug report was marked for expiration 15 days ago. (find out why)
[13:21] <directhex> and slangasek's been very helpful too
[13:21] <slytherin> ogra: which post of yours was highvolt1ge was referring to?
[13:22] <seb128> Keybuk: there is no autoclosing no, they did it once and got flamed for it because there was buggy closing cases and stopped after that
[13:22] <ogra> slytherin, the "update-manager jumps in your face every two days" one
[13:22] <directhex> on a related note, gmime development seems to have come back from the dead, so the last thing pulling in mono 1.0 classlib onto the jaunty cds should soon be cleaned
[13:23]  * ogra really really wants that mail icon to vanish from his panel if there is no unread mail ... hrm
[13:34] <Lure> pitti: thanks for hal-info commit
[13:39] <kwwii> if anyone wants to see the new usplash and gdm, sponsor it in main :)
[13:40] <ikonia> kwwii: what do you mean a new uplash and gdm ?
[13:40] <ikonia> a new version, a totally new product, or a theme ?
[13:41] <ogra> themes
[13:41] <kwwii> ikonia: just new themes :(
[13:41] <directhex> an usplash which doesn't approach widescreen in a very very silly way?
[13:41] <directhex> oh, no, no such luck :/
[13:41] <kwwii> well, I did include two bigger pics, so it should be somewhat improved
[13:42] <kwwii> and plymouth isn't ready just yet
[13:42]  * directhex squashes kwwii to 4:3 then stretches him back to 16:9
[13:42] <directhex> hello jelmer!
[13:42] <ikonia> I'd be more interested in seeing development of the actual products, rather than just themes
[13:42] <ikonia> themes aren't really a great use of developer resource, rather artists
[13:42] <ogra> oh, cute ... now i know why i dont see my notificatils ... they actually pop under the panel aligned to the top of the screen
[13:43] <ogra> *notofocations
[13:43] <ogra> bah
[13:43] <directhex> ikonia, you still doing lots of HP-related work? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/moon/1.0-0ubuntu2/+build/874173 ;)
[13:44] <ikonia> directhex: lets see, and "yes2
[13:44] <ikonia> directhex: I'll give that a go if you want some feedback
[13:44] <directhex> ikonia, is hppa ubuntu big or little endian? the cpu seems to cope with both
[13:45] <ikonia> big would be better
[13:45] <ikonia> (in my opinion)
[13:45] <ikonia> as in built for big
[13:45] <ikonia> where is your ia64 port ?
[13:45] <ikonia> come on
[13:45] <ikonia> your slacking
[13:45] <directhex> hm. there's a known issue w/ multimedia codecs on bigel arches. i'd love to get it fixed, but have no bigel, and upstream don't exactly have it as a priority
[13:46] <directhex> ikonia, the ia64 buildd is heavily oversubscribed
[13:46] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[13:46] <ikonia> I can provide you access to some bigel boxes if you want ?
[13:46] <ikonia> no shying away now
[13:46] <kagou> bryce, for informations,  I'm trying to build a package https://edge.launchpad.net/~vetsel-patrice/+archive/ppa for Bug #325394
[13:46] <directhex> but since you asked...
[13:47] <directhex> jms@orac:~> file moon-1.0/src/.libs/libmoon.so.0.0.0
[13:47] <directhex> moon-1.0/src/.libs/libmoon.so.0.0.0: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, IA-64 (Intel 64 bit architecture), version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
[13:47] <ikonia> directhex: touche' nice
[13:48] <directhex> ikonia, i'm no c++ developer, i'm not well equipped to try & solve the issue myself
[13:48] <ikonia> wimp,
[13:48] <directhex> ikonia, if i hear bug reports from users, then i have something to beat upstream with
[13:48] <ikonia> (me neither though)
[13:49] <ogra> Keybuk, "- Loop devices now get persistent disk links too." does that mean we finaly have partition support there ?
[13:49] <ogra> *fnially
[13:49] <ogra> hrm ... i should stop correcting myself today, it only gets worse
[13:49] <directhex> hm, looks like there's a 3/50 chance of being assigned an AM who knows me, assuming (falsely) that AMs are assigned randomly
[13:49] <Keybuk> ogra: no
[13:49] <ogra> ah, sounded like
[13:50] <Keybuk> it means if you mount a file with -o loop, a /dev/disk/by-{uuid,label} symlink will appaer for it
[13:50]  * ogra is tired of having to compute offsets manually
[13:50] <ikonia> directhex: if he knows you - your screwed
[13:50] <directhex> ikonia, hm?
[13:50] <soren> ogra: kpartx.
[13:50] <ikonia> directhex: just kidding
[13:50] <kagou> bryce, I hope that it will solve the problem and that we can have it inluded in alpha5
[13:51] <directhex> ikonia, i don't spot anyone on the AM list who i know hates me, so that's a good start
[13:51] <ogra> soren, oh, thanks !
[13:51] <cjwatson> ikonia: kwwii is an artist, so it's a bit silly to tell him off for working on themes :)
[13:51] <soren> ogra: It's what all the cool kids use.
[13:51] <ogra> soren, well, i'm behind times as always :)
[13:51] <ikonia> cjwatson: I meant for development, themes are always welcome
[13:52] <directhex> cjwatson, neat. free software needs more talented artists
[13:52] <ikonia> concur
[13:52] <directhex> still think there are plenty of talented emos on deviantart as an untapped resource :p
[13:52] <Keybuk> it must be half term
[13:52] <ikonia> it kills me
[13:52] <ikonia> there are some great ones on there
[13:53] <directhex> to be fair, whomever designed the hardy heron wallpaper deserves cake. that looked awesome
[13:53] <ikonia> one of the best
[13:53] <ikonia> agreed
[13:53] <ikonia> I liked the cracked wall one too
[13:54] <ogra> so send flowers to kwwii for both then instead of attacking him ;)
[13:55] <ikonia> I didn't attack him
[13:55] <ogra> he deserves all the kudos
[13:55] <ikonia> he's getting public kudos here if he designed them
[14:21] <lool> doko: Pushing glibc; I've put the branch up for review as well
[14:22] <lool> There's a larger debdiff between the .dscs than just my changes, I think glibc doesn't clean properly, so my upload drops some files in control.in etc.
[14:22] <lool> it's a bit scary
[14:22] <lool> But fakeroot debian/rules debian/control doesn't change control, so I think it's fine
[14:24] <cjwatson> I generally go to some effort to sync up those control files even if clean doesn't do it properly
[14:25] <lool> cjwatson: By removing the things which should be removed, right?
[14:25] <lool> Cause that's what I'm uploading
[14:25] <lool> I guess I could add the clean:: snippet to actually remove them
[14:27] <cjwatson> lool: no, what I usually do is make sure that the diff between .dscs is the diff between the bzr branches, i.e. copy in those files from a previous source package if necessary
[14:27] <cjwatson> lool: I leave it to somebody else to work out whether they should actually be removed or not
[14:27] <lool> Wow, shutdown actually works from startx sessions now!  \o/
[14:28] <lool> cjwatson: Hmm I'm afraid I didn't do that; should I go cancel my merge request, add the files in a new branch, merge my previous branch in it, and resubmit the new branch for a merge request?
[14:30] <doko> lool: which files are different?
[14:30] <fta> seb128, fyi, a new gwibber is ready in NEW, whenever you have time to re-review it. thanks.
[14:30] <lool> glibc-2.9/debian/control.in/libc0.3
[14:30] <lool> glibc-2.9/debian/control.in/libc6.1
[14:30] <lool> glibc-2.9/debian/control.in/libc6
[14:30] <lool> glibc-2.9/debian/control.in/libc0.1
[14:30] <seb128> ok
[14:31] <lool> New compiz is great
[14:31] <doko> they can be kept, but we don't need to check those in
[14:31] <lool> Stops moving the background around
[14:31] <lool> doko: I think cjwatson wants to have a commit in the history representing the uploaded source exactly
[14:33] <Silicium> hi there
[14:33] <Silicium> where is the bootsplash .so saved on the live CD?
[14:33] <Silicium> in the initrd or directly in the kernel?
[14:50] <calc> Riddell: i changed the human set, but not the other sets
[14:50] <calc> Riddell: do you know when it changed, was it just when 3.0.1 was released?
[14:51] <Riddell> calc: changed when I did an install from monday's daily CD build
[14:51] <Riddell> I hadn't updated for a while before that
[14:54] <calc> Riddell: oh ok, well the crystal icon set may have had that icon removed, i know a lot of tango icons went away at least since 2.3.1, when i updated the set in bzr i noticed that part
[15:05] <PecisDarbs> pitti: got time to check out last patch for that sl-modem-daemon init script?
[15:06] <pitti> PecisDarbs: on my list, release team meeting right now
[15:16] <RenatoSilva> sorry but developers may know the answer
[15:17] <RenatoSilva> is there a way to make update manager run an apt-get autoremove & autoclean after applying updates?
[15:18] <RenatoSilva> does it have any trigger mechanism for running commands?
[15:19] <kirkland> apw: howdy, did you have a chance to check out my patch to test-suspend?
[15:25] <apw> kirkland, not yet
[15:27] <kirkland> apw: cool.  fwiw, i have a draft of a blog post, with instructions on how to run test-suspend --server, i'll wait to publish until you can review and update the script as posted on people.ubuntu.com
[15:42]  * calc got a bug about more gnome craziness, apparently gnome shell wants to use the name of the desktop file itself to name apps, not the name or genericname in the desktop file, but the freaking name of the file itself
[15:43] <calc> and so they decided to file a bug against OOo in Ubuntu because they didn't like what the ooo desktop files were named
[15:43] <azeem> bug number?
[15:43] <calc> please Gnome people stop this insanity there are standards for a reason
[15:43] <azeem> calc: gnome shell isn't gnome, you know
[15:44] <calc> azeem: its intended to be in gnome 3.0
[15:44] <calc> aiui
[15:44] <calc> bug 331768
[15:44] <azeem> well maybe
[15:44] <azeem> but you can't blame gnome people for it at this point
[15:44] <calc> so in Ubuntu 10.04
[15:44] <cjwatson> doko: are you going to merge lool's glibc branch or shall I? seeing as it's been uploaded and all :)
[15:45] <calc> azeem: so gnome shell isn't being written by gnome people just out of tree currently?
[15:45] <calc> azeem: aiui it is being written by gnome people
[15:45] <calc> azeem: and its hosted on gnome.org
[15:45] <azeem> sure, but that doesn't mean it automatically gets included I guess; they still need to get it approved
[15:46] <pochu> and anyway it wasn't the developers who reported that bug :)
[15:46] <pochu> (it's still a gnome-shell bug and not a OOo, of course ;)
[15:46] <calc> azeem: which doesn't seem to take much, so blaming gnome people who write gnome things that will go into a future gnome release for not following the standards they helped write is reasonable ;-)
[15:47] <azeem> calc: maybe it's an optimization; one stat() vs. parsing .desktop files
[15:47] <calc> azeem: you need to parse anyway for l10n
[15:47] <ogra> calc, mark it invalid for openoffice ... it follows todays xdg standard while the app developers of that app seem not to ... so they should enhace the standard first if they want it differently
[15:48] <calc> and if they are throwing away l10n then god help them
[15:48] <calc> ogra: yea
[15:48] <ogra> azeem, right, but still that needs to go into the widely accepted standard first
[15:49] <ogra> otherwise that bug is just noise
[15:49] <calc> and you aren't going to get names with spaces in them so the conversion to space will need to be documented, etc
[15:50] <calc> i have a feeling when they try to get the spec updated whoever is in charge of it will remind them to lay off the crack
[15:50] <cjwatson> wouldn't it be more productive to forward this bug to the gnome-shell developers, rather than flaming them here?
[15:50] <cjwatson> it could easily be a simple bug, which we all suffer from
[15:50] <calc> cjwatson: they filed the bug (aiui) against OOo, just mentioning the craziness of it
[15:50] <calc> at least the person filing the bug seemed to indicate he was involved with gnome shell
[15:50] <ogra> so mark it invalid for oo.o, open a task for gnome-shell
[15:50] <ogra> and then forwrd it
[15:51] <lool> cjwatson: I think you could merge it after adding the files from the previous glibc; that would require less steps then me doing the ones I described
[15:53] <cjwatson> the problem about adding them is that I think they get created/removed in some circumstances, and such files are awkward to add to bzr
[15:53] <calc> yea the bug reporter is Milan Bouchet-Valat who is a gnome shell dev
[15:53] <Keybuk> cjwatson: so I think I'm going to put the console and keyboard stuff on the shelf
[15:53] <Keybuk> at least for jaunty
[15:54] <cjwatson> Keybuk: oh?
[15:54] <Keybuk> cjwatson: some other changes have made them sufficiently fast that they're not appearing on most of my bootcharts
[15:54] <Keybuk> so it's merely inelegant that we do it so many times
[15:54] <Keybuk> and since we'll likely use KMS in kinky, it'll all change all over again anyway
[15:55] <Keybuk> so we may as well just get it right for KMS
[15:57] <cjwatson> Keybuk: hmm, ok, as long as it isn't just an anomaly that they aren't showing up
[15:58] <cjwatson> Keybuk: what's the current time for comparison?
[15:58] <Keybuk> cjwatson: on a mini 9 with metacity: 25s
[15:58] <cjwatson> bingo
[15:58] <cjwatson> with compiz?
[15:58] <Keybuk> with compiz 29s
[15:59] <Keybuk> so I'd rather spend some time getting compiz to go faster instead of futzing around with something that we'll have to break again next release
[15:59] <cjwatson> are we considering this to meet the agreed target or not?
[15:59] <cjwatson> I'm assuming not since it isn't stock
[15:59] <robbiew> Keybuk: so we just need mvo to squeek out 4 sec of compiz performance :P
[15:59] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I would like to see 25s with compiz
[15:59]  * cjwatson nods
[15:59] <Keybuk> X is up in 12s
[15:59] <Keybuk> I have a personal goal to get X up in 10s
[16:00] <Keybuk> because I like round numbers ;)
[16:00] <cjwatson> xkbcomp?
[16:00] <Keybuk> right, that's one of the patches I have to get this 25s
[16:01] <directhex> ... kinky?
[16:01] <doko> cjwatson: yes, I can do that (tomorrow)
[16:01] <robbiew> directhex: Keybuk's nickname for the yet to be announced 9.10
[16:01] <cjwatson> doko: oh, the reason I ask is that I've confirmed 313228 and wanted to upload that today
[16:02] <directhex> robbiew, i dread to think what a kinky koala looks like
[16:02] <cjwatson> doko: so if you're ok with me pulling lool's branch I could unblock myself
[16:02] <doko> cjwatson: please merge, leaving in 15min today
[16:02] <cjwatson> ok, will do
[16:02] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: 8 is rounder than 10. :-)
[16:02] <mvo> robbiew:  asac promised me some computer time on his mini9 :) that should make it possible to test stuff for me
[16:03] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: true, but I think I can only get 8 by ripping out apparmor
[16:03] <Keybuk> and kees would rip out my intestines for that
[16:03] <Mithrandir> mmm, brains.
[16:03] <robbiew> mvo: great thnx!
[16:03] <apw> kirkland, just reviewed that patch
[16:04] <apw> i think it makes more sense to treat --full as a collective enable
[16:04] <apw> and make --server the same
[16:04] <kirkland> apw: k
[16:04] <apw> so rather than having --server --full
[16:04] <kirkland> apw: that's fine
[16:04] <apw> and have server just turn off some of full
[16:04] <kirkland> apw: crossed my mind in retrospect
[16:04] <apw> it makes more sense to make --full == --desktop
[16:04] <apw> and --server == --server
[16:04] <kirkland> apw: right
[16:04] <apw> and enable what makes sense there, which is just exhaustive right now
[16:04] <kirkland> apw: i agree with that
[16:05]  * apw does that
[16:20] <pitti> Keybuk: hm @ bug 332017
[16:22] <Keybuk> pitti: since we were using ondemand before -> Invalid
[16:23] <ogra> well, wernt there machines where performance was used by accident ?
[16:23] <Keybuk> no, there were machines which had no scaling driver by accident
[16:23]  * ogra thought he read that in the thread
[16:23] <ogra> which results in full performance, no ?
[16:24] <ogra> since they dont know how to scale down
[16:37] <calc> where do bugs about problems resuming belong?
[16:39] <lool> doko: glibc ppc build failed; not sure what to do about it except retry -- it built in ppa
[16:40] <pitti> lool: it failed for me the first time as well, in a test case (small number difference)
[16:40] <pitti> lool: I just retried it, and it worked
[16:40] <cjwatson> I'm going to upload glibc again anyway, so you can just let me have the failure if you prefer ;-)
[16:40] <apw> Keybuk, i'd ask him for numbers
[16:41] <Keybuk> apw: exactly
[16:50] <lool> cjwatson: Ok
[16:55] <slangasek> apw, Keybuk: numbers> are you talking about 332017?
[16:55] <apw> indeed
[16:55] <Keybuk> yes
[16:59] <slangasek> apw, Keybuk: in that case, the submitter is maxb in this channel
[16:59] <slangasek> if you want to ask directly :)
[16:59] <maxb> bug 332017
[16:59] <maxb> ah, yes
[17:00] <apw> so what was the test case, and how much slower was it?
[17:01] <maxb> My "test" case was switching between channel tabs in xchat - performance: effectively instantaneous redraw; ondemand: the lines of text noticeably appear one-by-one from top to bottom, taking approximately a complete second to finish
[17:02] <Keybuk> maxb: how had you overridden the default to performance before?
[17:02] <maxb> other apps (gnome-terminal, firefox) were also impacted, but the xchat use-case was the most clear cut
[17:03] <maxb> I had not overridden it before, the problem started when the kernel config changed in -8.24
[17:03] <Keybuk> could you reboot into the previous kernel
[17:03] <Keybuk> making sure you still have powernowd installed
[17:04] <maxb> Previous as in -8.23, right, not -7.x?
[17:04] <Keybuk> maxb: right, 8.23 is fine
[17:04] <Keybuk> if you don't have that, but have a -7, that's fine too
[17:04] <maxb> -7.x would be easier but I accept that it would be a less useful datapoint
[17:05] <Keybuk> -7 would be ok for the first test I'd like to run with you
[17:05] <maxb> rebooting (powernowd is 1.00-1ubuntu3)
[17:06] <Keybuk> sweet, let me know when you're up
[17:07] <pitti> doko: please commit your cdbs changes to bzr
[17:09] <allquixotic> Hi, I am having problems with NetworkManager and wifi. if I connect to a network with NetworkManager (on gnome, nm-applet), it seems to continually "roam" between different APs. I am in a university with 10+ APs in the vicinity with >= 10% signal strength, all on the same network in master mode. dmesg indicates it tries to associate with a different one very often, between every 30 seconds to every 10 minutes.
[17:10] <allquixotic> If I kill NetworkManager and tell iwconfig 'ap auto' and set my essid and run dhclient, it sticks to the best AP without constant roaming.
[17:10] <allquixotic> so it's definitely NetworkManager that continually (mistakenly?) thinks the grass is greener on the other side, and hops. Over and over and over.
[17:10]  * pitti hugs doko for the python2.6 changes to drop the symlink madness
[17:10] <maxb> Keybuk: in -7, noticed error messages during bootup re failed to insert speedstep_centrino and acpi_cpufreq (No such device)
[17:10] <Keybuk> maxb: aha!
[17:11] <Keybuk> maxb: I had a feeling you might have actually hit _that_ bug instead
[17:11] <maxb> Panel applet complained about cpu frequency scaling unsupported on entering desktop
[17:11] <Keybuk> the default was always "ondemand"
[17:11] <Keybuk> but we seem to have been failing to load the right scaling driver for a little while
[17:11] <Keybuk> maybe even in intrepid
[17:11] <Keybuk> so you actually had no scaling at all
[17:11] <Keybuk> (and assumedly dreadful battery life)
[17:11] <Keybuk> can you confirm:
[17:12] <maxb> This is a desktop
[17:12] <Keybuk> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_{driver,governor}
[17:12] <Keybuk> ok, dreadful electricity bills then :p
[17:12] <maxb> I can confirm not having a cpufreq directory there at all
[17:12] <Keybuk> great
[17:12] <Keybuk> can you reboot back into 8.24 for me
[17:12] <maxb> here I go...
[17:13] <maxb> but I have a second machine here
[17:13] <Keybuk> maxb: what is that second machine running? 8.24 or earlier?
[17:13] <maxb> same. But it's a laptop
[17:14] <Keybuk> can you reboot that one into -7 as well, checking powernowd is installed
[17:14] <Trewas> Keybuk: powernowd has been selecting the wrong driver for a long time, bug 97042 for example (that one is because it selects speedstep-centrino instead of acpi-cpufreq)
[17:15] <Keybuk> Trewas: right, that's fixed now :)
[17:15] <Trewas> good :)
[17:17] <slangasek> Keybuk: so it may not be a regression in that sense, but if ondemand is causing that serious of performance problems, surely that should be considered a bug as well
[17:17] <Keybuk> I agree
[17:17] <Keybuk> but let's debug first
[17:17] <Keybuk> maxb: back in 8.24 on your desktop yet?
[17:17] <Keybuk> and in -7 on your laptop yet?
[17:18] <maxb> ok, up
[17:18] <Keybuk> maxb: ok
[17:18] <Keybuk> on the desktop, can you run:
[17:18] <Keybuk> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_{driver,governor}
[17:18] <Keybuk> and likewise on the laptop
[17:19] <maxb> laptop, -7, centrino ondemand
[17:20] <maxb> desktop, -8.24, p4-clockmod ondemand
[17:20] <Keybuk> maxb: ok, reboot back into 8.24 on your laptop and try again
[17:21] <Keybuk> so your laptop was running with ondemand before
[17:21] <Keybuk> your desktop wasn't
[17:21] <Keybuk> and your desktop is now using p4-clockmod
[17:21] <maxb> netbook, -8.24, acpi-cpufreq :-)
[17:21] <Keybuk> can you pastebin /proc/cpuinfo from your desktop
[17:22] <maxb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/120671/
[17:23] <Keybuk> interesting that it ends up with p4-clockmod rather than acpi-cpufreq
[17:23] <Keybuk> maxb: [desktop] cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies
[17:24] <Keybuk> maxb: in fact, to save IRC wear
[17:24] <maxb> 375000 750000 1125000 1500000 1875000 2250000 2625000 3000000
[17:24] <slangasek> p4-clockmod is the one that's terrible
[17:24] <Keybuk> maxb: [desktop] grep . /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/* | pastebin
[17:24] <Keybuk> :p
[17:24] <slangasek> so that much is expected
[17:24] <Keybuk> slangasek: indeed; so far this is what I had hoped to not see
[17:24] <Keybuk> frankly, if it's that bad, we should just disable it
[17:24]  * slangasek nods
[17:25] <slangasek> or make it a module only, for the masochists
[17:26] <ion_> keybuk: Btw, there’s ‘pastebinit’ which actually works exactly like that. :-)
[17:26] <maxb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/120675/
[17:26] <maxb> (pasted with pastebinit :-) )
[17:26] <Keybuk> maxb: ok, it's basically just your cpu governor that's whacked
[17:27] <Keybuk> err
[17:27] <Keybuk> no
[17:28] <Keybuk> DRIVER
[17:28] <Keybuk> maxb: do you like compiling your own kernels?
[17:29] <LaserJock> Karmic Koala, hmmm at least it's short this time
[17:29] <maxb> I haven't, but could do
[17:29] <Keybuk> maxb: give me a few minutes
[17:29] <Keybuk> in the mean time
[17:29] <pitti> LaserJock: oh, where did that leak?
[17:30] <slangasek> pitti: u-d-a :)
[17:30] <Keybuk> maxb: git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty
[17:30] <pitti> aah :)
[17:30] <Keybuk> pitti: it's all announced now
[17:30] <LaserJock> I know I'm gonna misspell koala a lot
[17:30] <ogra> better than katatocic katamaran :)
[17:30] <Keybuk> so the thirteen times it appears in various IRC logs can be safely ignored ;)
[17:30] <slangasek> Mez: why did you target bug #1 to jaunty?
[17:30] <ogra> *katatonic
[17:30] <LaserJock> ogra: heh
[17:32] <LaserJock> oh, more importantly UDS is in Spain again \o/
[17:35] <Keybuk> maxb: then when you've done that, git merge git://kernel.ubuntu.com/scott/ubuntu-jaunty and build
[17:35] <ogra> pitti, the original mail said gdm 2.24, i was aware of that ;)
[17:35] <Keybuk> maxb: that will give you a kernel without p4-clockmod - and hopefully your performance back (though it'll probably mean you have no scaling)
[17:35] <pitti> ogra: hm?
[17:35] <apw> kirkland, about?  could you try out the new script ... test-suspend-v6 (will copy it in officialy when you ok)
[17:35] <Keybuk> maxb: just to confirm though: you're not seeing any reduction in performance on your laptop or netbook?
[17:35] <ogra> pitti, your recent -desktop mail
[17:36] <Mez> slangasek: it was more of a trying to work out what the button did
[17:36] <pitti> ogra: right, I was saying that 2.20 doesn't use that keyboard env var at all; ceratinly the new gdm does
[17:36] <kirkland> apw: hmm, at the moment, i'm debugging broken wireless, jaunty update b0rked me
[17:36] <ogra> pitti, right, old gdm is out of question :)
[17:37] <pitti> ogra: just pointing out that starting to use that variable certainly introduces new issues, since gnome-settings-daemon evaluates it
[17:37] <ogra> yeah
[17:37] <apw> job
[17:37] <apw> joy even
[17:38] <maxb> Keybuk: this clone could take a while..... .  Confirmed, I've not noticed any performance issue with laptop or netbook.
[17:39] <slangasek> Mez: it makes the release manager angry :)
[17:39] <slangasek> Mez: please don't push the "aggravate the release manager" button
[17:39] <infinity> slangasek: Should we re-label it?
[17:39] <infinity> slangasek: If I knew it had that effect, I'd press it ALL THE TIME.
[17:39] <maxb> Keybuk: If the kernel build is purely to remove a module, does the fact that setting the governor to "performance" makes things good again prove the point just as well?
[17:40] <Keybuk> maxb: performance still uses the scaling driver
[17:40] <Keybuk> I'm obviously curious to see what happens if we remove that driver
[17:40] <Keybuk> whether you get another one take its place, or whether you end up with no scaling at all
[17:40] <slangasek> infinity: do not taunt the happy fun RM
[17:40] <maxb> ok. Well, it'll be ~15m for this clone to finish, I reckon
[17:41] <infinity> slangasek: That's your first mistake.  Release managers shouldn't be "fun".  That's how the world ended up with Windows ME, and the Ford Pinto.
[17:43] <Keybuk> ember: keen, aren't you?
[17:45] <Mez> slangasek: it's not clear what it is. Apologies
[17:46] <pitti> slangasek: I guess a friendly Launchpad admin can SQL it out again?
[17:47] <Keybuk> p4-clockmod and ondemand is a recipe for fail.
[17:47] <Keybuk>  -- Dave Jones
[17:48] <kirkland> apw: okay, where's your script?
[17:49] <apw> kirkland, http://people.ubuntu.com/~apw/suspend-resume/test-suspend-v6
[17:53] <kirkland> apw: cheers, looks good, thanks
[17:53] <apw> if it works ok then i'll make it the real one
[17:53] <pitti> kirkland: do you happen to have time for kernel NEWing, or should I just do it now and tell you later?
[17:54] <kirkland> pitti: the latter would be better, i'm afraid :-(
[17:54] <pitti> kirkland: that's fine
[17:54] <kirkland> pitti: i'm late for a meeting with kvm/qemu upstream
[17:54] <kirkland> pitti: i do want to learn the AA kernel magic at some point soon, though
[17:54] <ogra> MacSlow, is the fact that notifications pop up under the panel with the latest updates known ?
[17:54] <pitti> kirkland: we'll get a new one soon enough, don't worry :)
[17:55]  * pitti -> off for the weekend
[17:56] <MacSlow> ogra, that should not happen
[17:56] <MacSlow> ogra, that sounds like a start-order problem
[17:56] <ogra> well, it does since my upgrade and reboot around noon today
[17:56] <slangasek> pitti: I'm using it as a launchpadlib learning opportunity :)
[17:58] <MacSlow> ogra, I know the fix ... but a bit hard to implement bullet-proof atm
[17:58] <ogra> MacSlow, i also note that the notification blinks shortly before it disappears
[17:58] <MacSlow> ogra, just please file the bug on notify-osd at lp
[17:58] <ogra> will do
[18:00] <MacSlow> thanks
[18:01] <ogra> MacSlow, oh, it looks like bug 332094 just with the panel being on top instead of below
[18:02] <ogra> i'll just comment on that one then
[18:03] <MacSlow> ogra, you can add that that's probably a start-order problem of the panel and notify-osd
[18:03] <MacSlow> at least that's my best guess atm
[18:04] <ogra> well, the position is wrong
[18:04] <ogra> it shouldnt popup at the edge of the screen but respect the panel size
[18:04]  * ogra commented
[18:07] <directhex> karmic koala?
[18:12] <slytherin> is there some problem with buildd of ia64, hppa and armel. Builds seem to be getting stuck in 'needs building' state for long time.
[18:12] <Tm_T> perhaps just overcrowded?
[18:13] <directhex> both
[18:13] <majeru> hello, is how could I make suspend occur when some programs that usually inhibit it are running? (synaptic or vlc are blocking suspend)
[18:13] <directhex> openjdk on arm has been building for yonks though
[18:14] <majeru> when i close my laptop lid i expect it to suspend, not wait until i close transmission
[18:14] <majeru> i had a few times then i carried it powered on in my bag due to this issue
[18:15] <slytherin> Tm_T: looks like some particular servers are overcrowded and hence new packages are in needs building state for long time.
[18:16] <slytherin> directhex: yes, it is building for 2 days :-)
[18:16] <directhex> slytherin, that's the computing definition of "yonks"!
[18:38] <maxb> Keybuk: $ git merge git://kernel.ubuntu.com/scott/ubuntu-jaunty
[18:38] <maxb> fatal: 'git://kernel.ubuntu.com/scott/ubuntu-jaunty' does not point to a commit
[18:40] <Keybuk> maxb: + " master" ?
[18:41] <ion_> If that doesn’t work, perhaps git remote add keybuk git://kernel.ubuntu.com/scott/ubuntu-jaunty, git merge keybuk
[18:41] <Keybuk> ah, git; you've got to love that "don't do what I want, let alone what I mean" design philosophy
[18:45] <maxb> I think I've settled on 'git reset --hard keybuk/master'
[18:46] <Mithrandir> why not just git checkout keybuk/master?
[18:46] <maxb> it warned about it being nonlocal branch
[18:47] <Mithrandir> yes, it's just a warning.
[18:50] <ion_> Then git checkout -b foo to fork a local branch from it.
[18:50] <ion_> If you’re going to make any changes
[18:51] <LaserJock> mvo_: edubuntu ping
[18:53] <maxb> Is there a quick knob to twiddle to ask it to build generic flavour only?
[18:57]  * maxb hacks around in debian/rules.d/ and debian/control.d/, and starts the build
[19:53] <calc> slangasek: is it safe to upload yet?
[19:59] <calc> oh hmm i must be off by a week for a5, heh
[20:01] <superm1> maxb, if you look at the kernel/compile wiki page there is a quick command to trigger a build of just one arch.  you can't do it in a pbuilder/sbuild/ppa though, have to run it in your source tree
[20:04] <LaserJock> kees: around?
[20:14] <Lure_too> is it just me, or did root on lvm break with recent udev/dmsetup upload?
[20:23]  * sebner winks sistpoty 
[20:23] <sistpoty> huhu sebner
[20:25] <sistpoty> hm... /me wonders what yellow is doing atm. 17 minutes spent building faucc seems way over the top
[20:26] <laszlok> seb128: a new gstreamer-plugins-good was released today, do you know if it will make it into Jaunty or not because of feature freeze?
[20:29] <seb128> laszlok: we will get stable updates still no issue
[20:30] <ScottK> doko: I did convert all three boost* packages to Python 2.5/2.6 last night, so they're done.
[20:34] <laszlok> seb128: still allowed even if its a feature release? thats good, it has some pulseaudio fixes we would like for Jokosher
[20:34] <slytherin> I have question about gstreamer plugins packages. gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10 source is nothing but a copy of gst-plugins-ugly0.10 source, right?
[20:37] <laszlok> slytherin: -ugly-multiverse contains only gstreamer lame plugin, gstreamer-plugins-ugly in universe has the rest of the ugly ones
[20:38] <slytherin> laszlok: right, but the source is duplicated right?
[20:38] <laszlok> slytherin: you mean are there any source modifications?
[20:39] <slytherin> laszlok: No. I mean 'upstream does not release any separate source for ugly-multiverse, so we copy ugly and rename it ugly-multiverse'
[20:40] <seb128> laszlok: GNOME has a standing freeze exception and gstreamer is sort of GNOMish, I don't expect gstreamer stable update to be any issue
[20:40] <laszlok> okay thanks
[20:42] <slytherin> seb128: can you please my answer about the source of ugly-multiverse?
[20:44] <silas428> what is a good way to start developing for Ubuntu?
[20:44] <silas428> for someone who doesn't know how to program but is comfortable learning
[20:45] <seb128> slytherin: the multiverse version is the same source but build-depending on multiverse sources
[20:46] <slangase`> calc: hmm?
[20:46] <seb128> slytherin: the universe version can't depends on things which are in multiverse so there is an extra source to build those
[20:46] <sistpoty> silas428: we're always in need of persons trying to fix bugs... feel free to ask further questions in #ubuntu-motu
[20:46] <slytherin> seb128: Ok. The reason I am asking is that the ugly-multiverse source is quite old as compared to ugly.
[20:46] <silas428> sistpoty: I'll do that, thanks
[20:46] <seb128> slytherin: try to find a motu interested to update it?
[20:46] <slangasek> calc: ah - yes, a5 is next week :)
[20:47] <seb128> slytherin: the other one is in sync with debian, nobody seems interested to work on the multiverse variants
[20:47] <slytherin> seb128: There is one. Me. :-)
[20:47] <slytherin> I was just checking if my understanding is correct.
[20:47] <seb128> slytherin: ok, cool
[20:48] <slytherin> And that reminds me. A simple -bad source rebuild fails currently because of updated libcelt0. I need to contact the uploader who updated libcelt0 and file a bug then.
[21:28] <tobi> should translations to Chinese simple and traditional share the same folder in /usr/share/locale?
[21:30] <jdstrand> mathiaz: fyi-- I just uploaded new gnutls packages to the ubuntu-security-proposed ppa to fix bug #305264
[21:30] <slangasek> tobi: no
[21:30] <calc> tobi: isn't that zh_CN vs zh_TW ?
[21:30] <slangasek> tobi: they differ as calc describes
[21:30] <tobi> which is simple and which traditional?
[21:30] <calc> iirc simple is CN and traditional is TW
[21:31] <jdstrand> mathiaz: jaunty has gnutls26 2.4.2-6 now too
[21:31] <calc> slangasek may know more details than me
[21:31] <tobi> aren't the latter 2 characters for the different countries?
[21:31] <calc> tobi: yes
[21:31] <calc> taiwan and china
[21:32] <calc> ugh, dselect crashing :\
[21:32] <rmcbride> calc: you are correct in regard to simple vs traditional
[21:32] <jdstrand> dselect... man, that takes me back :)
[21:33] <tobi> ok, and all Taiwanese use traditional and all Chinese simple?
[21:33] <rmcbride> tobi: with regard to localization character set choices, yes.
[21:34] <tobi> kk, thank you guys
[21:35] <tobi> one more question: is this ubuntu specific or something general?
[21:36] <calc> tobi: read wikipedia :)
[21:36] <calc> tobi: its due to Mao iirc
[21:37] <slangasek> tobi: it's common across Linux distributions, at least
[21:38] <calc> wrt it being called traditional vs simplified its universal
[21:38] <calc> the directory layout on linux is common to linux :)
[21:39] <calc> tobi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_on_traditional_and_simplified_Chinese_characters
[21:43] <tobi> packaging can be quite educating :D
[21:46] <calc> tobi: also if you don't know yet (People's Republic of China) China doesn't acknowledge (Republic of China) Taiwan
[21:46] <jdstrand> zul: ^ (gnutls)
[21:47] <SyL> if I have a question about ubuntu-server, but it's jaunty, should I be asking it in here?
[21:51] <slangasek> tobi: ISTR that Hong Kong also uses Traditional instead of Simplified, since they were administratively separate from the PRC during the orthographic reform; but I could be mistaken about that, and in any case we don't normally have separate zh_HK translations
[22:01] <mathiaz> jdstrand: great - thanks
[22:20] <RainCT> slangasek: the update-manager windows needs 100MB memory? o_O
[22:20] <RainCT> sounds pretty much like a bug to me :P
[22:20] <sebner> RainCT: it's python :P
[22:20] <RainCT> sebner: and?
[22:20] <ScottK> SyL: #ubuntu-server
[22:21] <RainCT> Python can be efficient, and 100MB is... I don't know what that is :P
[22:21] <sebner> RainCT: should be rewritten in C# :P
[22:21] <RainCT> I have written a complete game in Python with fancy graphics and it needs less memory than that :P
[22:22] <sebner> RainCT: LINK!!!
[22:23] <SyL> ScottK: it looks like a kernel issue
[22:23] <RainCT> sebner: http://launchpad.net/freevial, or sudo apt-get install in Jaunty (the version in Hardy is outdated) :)
[22:23] <slangasek> RainCT: python + 64-bit pointers
[22:23] <slangasek> and this is 100MB of real memory, AFAICT, excluding shared libs
[22:24] <RainCT> slangasek: what is it used for? keeping the whole apt database in memory or what?
[22:24] <slangasek> RainCT: I haven't looked; you could ask mvo
[22:25] <slangasek> but there are a fair number of python modules involved, each of which contributes a bit for its data structures 'n'such
[22:25] <sebner> RainCT: /me looks
[22:27] <RainCT> Using Ubuntu with less than 700MB of RAM is a real pain.. With stuff like this I don't wonder why anymore :P
[22:27] <RainCT> sebner: if you want to write questions, contributors are welcome :)
[22:28] <slangasek> well, after getting nowhere trying to figure out why my system was so sluggish with 1GB of RAM, I upgraded it to 3GB this week. :)
[22:28] <sebner> RainCT: really crazy game. just funny to see mono logo floating around :P
[22:28] <slangasek> so while I'm still concerned about memory usage generally and think the problem needs more attention, it's no longer blocking my work :P
[22:28] <RainCT> sebner: That's *not* funny. Mono is evil! *g*        /me hides
[22:29]  * sebner slaps RainCT :P
[22:29] <calc> is launchpad dying?
[22:29] <calc> it keeps giving me errors
[22:30] <RainCT> calc: performance seems horrible lately.. here it takes ages too, and a while ago keyserver.ubuntu.com took over 2 minutes to respond -.-
[22:30] <calc> oh well this is giving me the error webpage pretty fast but often
[22:35] <maxb> Keybuk: kernel build done: performance is good, no frequency scaling method
[23:46] <calc> i hate launchpad, gah it ate my comment
[23:46] <calc> due to this stupid constant failing to show pages
[23:47] <calc> its getting really annoying and happens at a great time... bug jam weekend
[23:47] <directhex> calc, file a bug!
[23:48] <ScottK> calc: I think you're being too picky Launchpad does an awful lot of things, it's not like being a bug tracker is really one of its primary functions.
[23:50] <calc> directhex: heh yea if it will load
[23:52] <slangasek> "file a bug" - perhaps you didn't get the same error message I did, but the one I saw asked people to report issues to #launchpad; which is done now, the problem is being investigated
[23:52] <directhex> slangasek, i didn't get an error. but i live my life on the line between sarcasm and usefulness :)
[23:52] <calc> slangasek: ah ok
[23:53] <calc> it was happening so often i'm surprised it wasn't reported already
[23:53] <calc> almost every second page load it seemed
[23:54] <slangasek> I didn't see it for a half hour after your first comment here; then I reported it, they've been working on it since at least that time
[23:54] <calc> ok
[23:54] <ScottK> In all seriousness the line between "It does that" and "It's broken" isn't always easy to tell.
[23:55] <directhex> ScottK, especially on windows!
[23:56]  * calc bbl