[00:09] <Brucevdk> Hi, question, I'm using a PPA and say if I want to distribute two types of the same program (e.g. a stable version and an alpha version) should I change the control file to have something like programname-alpha?
[00:11] <directhex> yes
[00:11] <directhex> and really you want a different name for the source package more than anything else, so it can coexist
[00:11] <directhex> on the ppa
[00:13] <Brucevdk> directhex: alright, I'm trying some stuff out, let's see if it works
[00:24] <Brucevdk> directhex: the packages should have seperate changelogs?
[00:25] <directhex> Brucevdk, assuming they have different source tarballs, that's mostly up to you
[00:25] <directhex> Brucevdk, but the names in the changelogs need to match the names in control
[00:31] <Brucevdk> directhex: not sure how to best approach this. This is the current situation: http://tinyurl.com/aqwwqu (the build_package.sh in packages/ubuntu) creates a temporary directory for building in tmp.
[00:36] <directhex> james_w, you're a very odd individual
[00:36] <james_w> directhex: thanks
[00:36] <directhex> now, make me a sandwich
[00:36] <james_w> I was quite surprised I wasn't the only one to have thought of that
[00:36] <james_w> No!
[00:40] <Brucevdk> wondering if I should just create three directories or so, one for each changelog and one for the common files then merge that using the build_package script at build-time.
[00:40] <Brucevdk> but I must be doing this wrong, because that just seems stupid
[00:42] <Andre_Gondim> I am trying to compile the amsn like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amsn/+bug/314805 but i recive this http://paste.ubuntu.com/121257/ what is wrong?
[00:43] <directhex> Andre_Gondim, there's a problem?
[00:43] <Brucevdk> Andre_Gondim: maybe it's just me, but that's just ./configure no? (launchpad is a little slow)
[00:45] <weboide> Hi, I'm having an issue with package name conflict here (with Eina music player and lib-eina with eina as src name in debian). Anyone familiar with this kind of issue?
[00:45] <Andre_Gondim> Brucevdk, when i do make deb i recive http://paste.ubuntu.com/121259/
[00:48] <Brucevdk> Andre_Gondim: sorry, compile errors aren't my game
[00:48] <Andre_Gondim> Brucevdk, ok
[00:48] <Andre_Gondim> does anyone know how to solve this problem http://paste.ubuntu.com/121259/
[00:49] <Brucevdk> "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution." -- I'm an administrator... :-|
[00:51] <weboide> Andre_Gondim: this post shows on how to compile amsn 0.98b (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=712425)
[00:51] <directhex> Brucevdk, are you committing to your PPA?
[00:52] <Brucevdk> directhex: yes, verifying my key right now
[00:52] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: you sure you're uploading to your PPA?
[00:52] <Andre_Gondim> weboide, thanks
[00:52]  * directhex high-fives LaserJock 
[00:52] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: well assuming committing is the same as uploading, yes :-)
[00:53] <Brucevdk> oh, you mean if I'm absolutely sure
[00:53] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: well, sometimes it's easy to miss the "where to upload to" part of dput
[00:53] <Brucevdk> hold on
[00:53] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: which means you end up uploading to Ubuntu instead of the PPA
[00:54] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: are you supposed to end incoming with /ubuntu/ ?
[00:54] <Brucevdk> think I still managed to screw it up, it's missing ppa
[00:54] <directhex> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
[00:54] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: so you did put the location in your actual dput line though?
[00:55] <directhex> incoming = ~myusername/ubuntu
[00:55] <Brucevdk> it was incoming = ~nautilussvn/ubuntu/
[00:55] <Brucevdk> changed to incoming = ~nautilussvn/ppa/ubuntu/
[00:57] <Brucevdk> also the documentation said a unique signing key should have been generated, but afaik it hasn't (it's been at least more than week now)
[00:59] <LaserJock> good grief, "i don't know" is not a very helpful bug description :(
[00:59] <nixternal> lol
[00:59] <nixternal> LaserJock: mark it as fix released :p
[01:00] <LaserJock> the one before that is filed against edubuntu-addon-meta with the title "my ubuntu don't know what is docx format"
[01:00] <Brucevdk> just letting you know, it still got rejected with incoming set to ~nautilussvn/ppa/ubuntu/
[01:00] <weboide> Is there anyone familiar with dealing with name conflict between a package already in repos and one that wish to enter?
[01:01] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: what was the command you ran?
[01:01] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: dput nautilussvn_0.12-1ubuntu1_source.changes
[01:01] <LaserJock> weboide: what's the package names?
[01:01] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: I'm guessing that's your problem
[01:02] <weboide> LaserJock: I have eina (a music player) and in debian repos there is eina (from enlightenment) as src name, libeina as bin name.
[01:02] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: you run dput as: dput <location to upload> <changes file>
[01:02] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: the default is to upload to the Ubuntu archives
[01:03] <LaserJock> weboide: so maybe eina-player
[01:03] <LaserJock> ?
[01:03] <weboide> LaserJock: yeah, I talked with enlightenment and they clear said "we won't change our name because of debian"..
[01:04] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: oh I assumed that was what incoming in ~/.dput.conf meant, so wait, what is <location to upload>. The help page just says: my-ppa
[01:04] <weboide> LaserJock: but now I need to know how deep the changes need to be in eina-player.
[01:04] <LaserJock> weboide: I wouldn't expect them to. The general rule is that the first one to the archive gets to keep it
[01:04] <weboide> LaserJock: hm okay, well, we lost :(
[01:05] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: well, what's the name of the PPA in your .dput file?
[01:05] <directhex> Brucevdk, the [ppaname] in dput.cf
[01:05] <LaserJock> weboide: seems like eina-player or something similar may work
[01:05] <weboide> LaserJock: I'm not sure if I just need to change the packaging of the orig.tar.gz or does the configure.ac needs changing too?
[01:06] <Brucevdk> LaserJock, directhex: so just nautilussvn?
[01:06] <LaserJock> weboide: are the files named the same?
[01:06] <Brucevdk> right, looks like it
[01:06] <weboide> LaserJock: what files?
[01:06] <directhex> Brucevdk, if that's what the [heading] in dput.cf is called
[01:07] <LaserJock> weboide: the name of the actual programs?
[01:07] <weboide> LaserJock: well eina from enlightenment is a lib, so binary package is named libeina.
[01:08] <LaserJock> weboide: I'm not talking about packages
[01:08] <LaserJock> weboide: I mean the actual files that get shipped in the .deb
[01:09] <LaserJock> weboide: if there isn't a conflict you could just rename the package eina-player (in debian/changelog debian/control and rename the .orig.tar.gz)
[01:09] <Brucevdk> directhex, LaserJock: ok thanks guys, looks like that was it, I'm feeling a little bit stupid (but the docs really weren't that obvious, really ;-)
[01:09] <james_w> Brucevdk: try "dput ppa:~nautilussvn/ppa nautilussvn_0.12-1ubuntu1_source.changes"
[01:09] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: yeah
[01:10] <weboide> LaserJock: well, it's a quite simple package, usr/share/doc/eina, usr/lib/eina, usr/bin/eina. except there is also eina-dev which is /usr/include/eina or something.
[01:10] <james_w> Brucevdk: "dput ppa:nautilussvn/ppa nautilussvn_0.12-1ubuntu1_source.changes" sorry
[01:10] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: just be glad your not a developer and accidently upload something to the wrong place. it doesn't get rejected ;-)
[01:11] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: indeed :-)
[01:11] <LaserJock> weboide: your eina or enlightenment's eina?
[01:11] <weboide> LaserJock: mine
[01:12] <weboide> LaserJock: it does look like a real messy thing to check and make sure it's not confliction :(
[01:12] <LaserJock> really?
[01:12] <weboide> LaserJock: conflicting*
[01:12] <weboide> LaserJock: I mean the process
[01:12] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: should I be worried that the general signing key hasn't shown up yet?
[01:12] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: I wouldn't think so
[01:12] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: I think it depends on when you uploaded last
[01:13] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: you need to have one upload for it to start generating one?
[01:13] <LaserJock> weboide: all you should need to see is if the enlightenment package ships a /usr/bin/eina
[01:13] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: yep
[01:13] <weboide> LaserJock: okay
[01:13] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: that explains it ;-)
[01:13] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: the signing is triggered off an upload
[01:13] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: doesn't that mean I need to re-upload? Or is it going to be signed twice?
[01:13] <weboide> LaserJock: i've got a conflict with /usr/lib/eina/
[01:13] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: oh wait, I didn't upload a binary
[01:14] <LaserJock> weboide: you'll rename that
[01:14] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: it'll just get signed
[01:14] <Brucevdk> LaserJock: so, you sign your source thingy with your own key, upload it, and then it signs the binary with the general key?
[01:14] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: you don't need to upload a binary
[01:14] <LaserJock> Brucevdk: right
[01:14] <directhex> Brucevdk, right
[01:14] <Brucevdk> right, alright, makes sense
[01:15] <weboide> LaserJock: would /usr/include/eina get renamed too then?
[01:15] <LaserJock> weboide: yep
[01:16] <LaserJock> weboide: the packaging should take care of all that basically
[01:16] <weboide> LaserJock: okay, so this looks good to me, I'll try to package it with the name change and see the changes.
[01:16] <LaserJock> weboide: you just want to retain /usr/bin/eina so users can find it
[01:17] <weboide> weboide: okay, should I do any link with /usr/bin/eina-player or no?
[01:17] <LaserJock> weboide: no, just ship it as /usr/bin/eina
[01:17] <weboide> okay, thanks a *lot* for your help :)
[01:28] <weboide> LaserJock: I do have to also rename the directory in the orig.tar.gz to eina-player-<version> right? (this will break any debian/watch updating though...)
[01:30] <ScottK> It won't.  uscan is smart enough to be able to mangle it appropriatelyl.
[01:31] <weboide> Hm, the annoying thing is to have to repackage the tar.gz from upstream everytime from now on, right?
[01:32] <weboide> hm
[01:32] <weboide> Nevermind that, if that works with uupdate
[01:32] <weboide> :p
[01:33] <LaserJock> weboide: it should mostly work ok without a lot of changes
[01:35] <weboide> okay, well thanks, I think I'm finally done with the questions now!
[01:57] <LaserJock> anybody about who uses git/bzr for packaging?
[02:00] <LaserJock> I'm wondering what a good strategy for using branches for patches
[02:00] <LaserJock> I guess if you create a branch off of an upstream branch it would work
[09:34] <madmartian> on the subject of bug 332722
[09:34] <madmartian> I was sent here to discuss it (as it's my project)
[10:35] <madmartian> i was sent here to discuss bug 332722 as it's my package
[10:44] <jpds> madmartian: Have you prepared a source package?
[10:44] <madmartian> it's in a ppa
[10:44] <madmartian> https://launchpad.net/~suvat-dev/+archive/ppa
[10:45] <jpds> madmartian: OK, we usually review new package at revu.ubuntuwire.com, would you like me to import it there?
[10:45] <madmartian> jpds: yes please
[10:50] <jpds> madmartian: OK; it appears that you have to login to revu to request to have a package imported, could you please do that?
[10:52] <jpds> ...although I could just dget your source package from the PPA and put it in the processing queue.
[10:55] <madmartian> jpds: done, thanks for your help
[11:11] <tdomhan> how do I name the orig src tarball if I want to package a piece of software that is only available through svn?(concerning the version)
[11:11] <james_w> hey tdomhan
[11:12] <james_w> it's usually done as version+svn<revno>
[11:12] <tdomhan> hi james
[11:12] <james_w> if there are no releases at all that is a bit more difficult
[11:12] <directhex> 0.0.0+svn ?
[11:12] <tdomhan> there has been a release 1.27
[11:12] <james_w> and you can use the date instead of the revno
[11:12] <jpds> I personally prefer: svnYYYYMMDD.
[11:12] <tdomhan> should I name it 1.28svn<revno>?
[11:12] <directhex> tdomhan, in that case, use 1.2.7+svn375218367853721
[11:13] <directhex> tdomhan, no, for 2 reasons
[11:14] <directhex> tdomhan, if it's BASED on 1.27 (e.g. from a 1.27 branch) then use 1.27+svn; if it's BASED on 1.28 (e.g. from trunk leading towards a 1.28 release) then use 1.28~svn
[11:14] <directhex> tdomhan, using the ~ in the second example is very important
[11:14] <tdomhan> kk, it's the latter one, what are the meanings of +/~?
[11:15] <directhex> tdomhan, 1.28~svn100 is "older" than 1.28
[11:15] <directhex> tdomhan, 1.27+svn100 is "newer" than 1.27
[11:20] <tdomhan> kk thank you
[11:24] <james_w> "dpkg --compare-versions" can be used to check that two version numbers sort in the way that you think
[11:25] <maxb> ooi, is there a clear documentation of the algorithm anywhere? I resorted to the source to learn it
[11:25] <mok0> maxb: there was a discussion on d-d some time ago on exactly that question
[11:26] <geser> I like 0~1 as a version. it's smaller than zero but positive :)
[11:26] <maxb> There's no such thing as a negative version
[11:27] <Yagisan> tdomhan, I use the naming system seen on the deng package here -> https://launchpad.net/~yagisan/+archive/ppa
[11:28] <maxb> That naming system is, IMO, inadvisable
[11:29] <maxb> It's overly verbose, and worse, it risks colliding with an official ubuntu package
[11:29] <geser> maxb: but 0~1 < 0
[11:29] <mok0> Yagisan's scheme is standard
[11:29] <maxb> mok0: for PPAs?
[11:30] <mok0> yep
[11:30] <Yagisan> maxb, consider my package is what will eventually be the offical ubuntu packe - I see no issues with it
[11:30] <maxb> It's not frowned upon to publish packages to PPAs that have versions which could be used in the primary archive?
[11:31] <mok0> No on the contrary
[11:31] <mok0> You should not use version numbers that might appear in the archive
[11:32] <mok0> -0ubuntu1~ppa1 is overwritten by -0ubuntu1 which gives the effect you want
[11:32] <maxb> the deng package in Yagisan's PPA ends -0ubuntu1, no ~ppa1, which is what I'm calling out as inadvisable
[11:33] <mok0> right
[11:33] <mok0> I've forgotten it too, occasionally
[11:34] <Yagisan> maxb, it's also been pending inclusion for what 2 years now ? It still can't get in, so the ppa can be skipped until I can actually get in
[11:35] <mok0> Yagisan: pending, where?
[11:35] <maxb> Yagisan: regardless, that doesn't mean you shouldn't practice good versioning hygiene
[11:36] <mok0> I agree
[11:36] <Yagisan> mok0, I've been sorting out license issues, and security issues ever since was it hoary or breezy - been such a long time now
[11:36] <mok0> Yagisan: what if it gets in with changes? Then your ppa version is not overwritten
[11:36] <Yagisan> I guarantee you'll never have an official ubuntu version that will conflict with it
[11:37] <mok0> Yagisan: you can't give such a guarantee
[11:37] <Yagisan> I sure can. as a former upstream, I can categorily state the is a remote eploitable security issue in it, and you can not include it under those grounds
[11:38] <Yagisan> thus
[11:38] <Yagisan> I can guarantee it
[11:38] <maxb> Well if that's the case, I'd say you should be deleting it from your PPA...
[11:38] <mok0> Yagisan: there are 330942 examples in Launchpad I can cite to disprove you :-)
[11:38] <Yagisan> (FYI - design issue - and getting that fixed has been more of a headache than the licensing issues were!)
[11:39] <maxb> Regardless of what you can say about any specific upstream version, that's no reason not to apply good versioning practices
[11:40] <Yagisan> I have. there will never be an official intrepid version, and when it finally can go in (assuming I haven't given up) any older versions will upgrade
[11:42] <mok0> Yagisan: where are you trying to get it in?
[11:44] <Yagisan> mok0, one day, far far far into the future it appears, I would like to see it in universe as it is/was a fun little game. Right now it fails a DFSG test over some issue with wording in an otherwise free license
[11:45] <mok0> Yagisan: If you are upstream, just fix the license then
[11:45] <Yagisan> mok0, and when I started, some 33% of the code base was GPL incompatible non-free code, so I'm doing well
[11:46] <Yagisan> mok0, **former** upstream, and that code didn't come from us. adocating it's removeal didn't go down well either ...
[11:47] <mok0> Yagisan: How sad
[11:48] <Yagisan> mok0, joys of politics mate - they no longer have a linux dev. That and I got canned over security fixes, and was vocal in my disapproval of windows only features being planned
[11:49] <mok0> Yagisan: perhaps you should move on and use your skills for a better cause
[11:50]  * Yagisan has. I have several other projects - but I do enjoy playing this one, and there is interest in an Ubuntu package, so I update it in my ppa
[12:13]  * RainCT wonders why Totem fails to play a song on a memory limited system with BadAlloc but Rhyhtmbox doesn't
[12:18] <maxb> Is there any channel where dbus experts hang out? Specifically I'm wondering "Is there any way to override session-bus service configuration on a per-user basis?"
[13:09] <fabrice_sp_> Hi. I'd like to apply to U-C-D and already setup my wiki page? Should I send first the email to the mailing list or get the comments of the people that sponsored my uploads?
[13:11] <geser> fabrice_sp_: get your sponsors comment on your application in your wiki page and when you have enough comments apply "formally"
[13:15] <fabrice_sp_> thanks geser!
[13:17] <fabrice_sp_> so, mok0, james_w and any MOTU whot sponsored my uploads recently: could you please put a comment on my wiki application page? Thanks!
[13:17] <RainCT> james_w: btw, http://jameswestby.net/weblog/bzr/03-sandwich.html gives a blank page here
[13:17] <james_w> RainCT: how, odd, it worked yesterday
[13:20] <james_w> RainCT: should be fixed now, thanks
[13:21] <RainCT> james_w: no problem. funny post :)
[13:21] <mok0> fabrice_sp_: sure
[13:22] <mok0> geser: did you see my reply to your question?
[13:23] <geser> mok0: yes
[13:23] <geser> mok0: so the PPA would only be used between FF and the next archive opening?
[13:23] <mok0> geser: Yes
[13:24] <mok0> geser: perhaps we come up with other uses, but that's the idea
[13:25] <geser> mok0: who should be able to upload there? only ~ubuntu-dev?
[13:25] <mok0> geser: yes
[13:26] <mok0> geser: when the package passes review, and if the main archive is closed
[13:27] <mok0> geser: or.... perhaps if some rigorous testing is required???
[13:38] <james_w> fabrice_sp_: do you have a list of uploads of yours that I sponsored?
[13:39] <james_w> oh, this is a U-C-D application, no need
[13:53] <ScottK> mok0: I also like the idea of an 'official' PPA to build against for libs so New doesn't add to latency for doing a sequence of packages.
[14:30]  * RainCT pokes asac 
[14:37] <mok0> ScottK: yes, it helps for packages that have a serial dependency
[15:22] <asac> RainCT: ?
[15:35] <RainCT> asac: Yesterday I asked whether we still want new extensions for Jaunty (now that FF has started, that is), like last cycle?
[15:35] <asac> RainCT: depends on the extension.
[15:36] <asac> i wont grant a general exception if thats what you ask
[15:36] <asac> there are a few that missed FF because i was too overloaded to sponsor. those will certainly get in
[15:36] <asac> on top i need to look at the specific extension
[15:51] <RainCT> asac: Ah OK. I was thinking that if there was to be a general exception again I could take a look at packaging google gears
[15:53] <asac> RainCT: is that free?
[15:54] <RainCT> asac: Yes, New BSD
[15:54] <asac> RainCT: go ahead and package it ... we can then look ;)
[15:54] <asac> if its an important addition to the ubuntu-extension eco system it might be worth looking into an exception
[15:55] <RainCT> Alright. The main advantage of having it packaged is that there's a patch to let it work with 64-bit systems, but Google hasn't accepted it so far. That's quite annoying as there are custom .xpi builds with it but when there comes a new version Firefox is all the time asking to update it (which it can't as it then tries with the 32 bit version)
[16:00] <asac> RainCT: yes, amd64 support is an important use case
[16:00] <asac> RainCT: is there a branch alreawdy
[16:00] <asac> i just have kind of dejavu now that i think about it
[16:00] <asac> like i already reviewed a package at some point
[16:10] <RainCT> asac: Afaik no
[16:12] <goshawk> can i create a watch file to look to a svn repo in which there are the release file and not a tar archive?
[16:12] <goshawk> if yes can someone point me an example?
[16:18] <asac> RainCT: then go for it ;) ... quick!
[16:20] <__iron> hi
[16:21] <__iron> what it is to do to get moto status ?
[16:22] <siretart> __iron: follow the links in the channel topic
[16:22] <__iron> k
[16:29] <goshawk> nevermind, solved in another way :)
[16:30] <RainCT> goshawk: you can write a get-orig-source rule
[16:32] <goshawk> RainCT: i solved using an http page in which there is a link to the tarbal
[16:32] <goshawk> so in a complete different way
[16:33] <RainCT> goshawk: ah, that's better :)
[16:33] <goshawk> the problem right now is this one: Newest version on remote site is 0.99.7.0.99.7, local version is 0.99.7
[16:33] <goshawk> it gets the version two times
[16:33] <goshawk> this is the watch
[16:33] <goshawk>  http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/SourceDownloads http://downloads.dsource.org/projects/tango/([\d\.]+)/tango-([\d\.]+)-src.tar.gz
[16:33] <RainCT> add ?: after the first (
[16:33] <goshawk> first one is the html page
[16:33] <RainCT> http://downloads.dsource.org/projects/tango/(?:[\d\.]+)/tango-([\d\.]+)-src.tar.gz
[16:35] <goshawk> perfect
[16:35] <goshawk> it works
[16:35] <goshawk> can you please tell me what that ?:
[16:35] <goshawk> mean?
[16:36] <RainCT> goshawk: parenthesis mark a group the content of which is selected; the ?: mean that you don't want that group
[16:38] <goshawk> ok perfect, understood :) thx as everytime...
[16:39] <RainCT> No problem. In case you have more difficulties with the watch file in the future, http://www.regular-expressions.info/ is a quite good resource.
[16:39] <RainCT> Although the rules in debian/watch are usually quite simple
[16:40] <goshawk> oki
[16:42] <goshawk> i've uploaded libtango to REVU
[16:42] <RainCT> nhandler: do you have some text for the FF warning?
[16:42] <goshawk> if someone have spare time, please review :) thx all
[16:43] <nhandler> RainCT: Not right now. I can write something up if you want
[17:00] <RainCT> nhandler: There's a warning now. Does it look good to you?
[17:01] <RainCT> nhandler: (it can be disabled once Koala is open changing "feature_freeze = 1" to 0 in /srv/revu-production/config/revu.cfg)
[17:04] <nhandler> RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/121479/. I made a few wording changes. I also removed the word "Jaunty" so that we don't need to update it for each release
[17:04] <RainCT> nhandler: the distribution name is also taken from the config file ;)
[17:04] <nhandler> Ok, I didn't know that. Then you can add Jaunty back in ;)
[17:07] <RainCT> nhandler: I'm also pondering changing the header (the "A Review Tool for MOTUs" - it's not only for MOTU :)). What do you think about "Collaborative Ubuntu packages reviewing"?
[17:12] <RainCT> (that's an open question to anyone who wants to answer :))
[17:13] <nhandler> RainCT: I have no objections. But we will also need to update a lot of the links that go to REVU
[17:13] <RainCT> nhandler: Erm.. Why?
[17:14] <nhandler> RainCT: Because a lot of links use the text "A Review Tool for MOTUs"
[17:15] <ScottK> It is a tool for MOTUs.
[17:15] <RainCT> ScottK: and for non-MOTUs who want to get a package into Ubuntu :)
[17:16] <ScottK> It's a tool to help us do reviews.
[17:16] <RainCT> and afaik MOTU is going away with archive reorg
[17:16] <ScottK> Yes, so eventually it will have to be changed.
[17:18] <RainCT> ScottK: So are you OK with changing the header?
[17:19] <ScottK> I think you should ask a broader section of MOTU than "is on IRC right now".
[17:19] <RainCT> nhandler: well, that REVU itself shows a different title doesn't mean that the links pointing to it must have the same name
[17:19] <ScottK> I'd prefer not, but it's not a big deal.
[17:19] <ScottK> So I don't object, other than please mail the MOTU ML first so others have a chance to object.
[17:20] <RainCT> I'll leave it for later then. Don't feel like sending a mail just to change a string :P
[17:21] <RainCT> nhandler: (the changes you've proposed will be up once LP processes my commit)
[17:21] <nhandler> scottk: I also don't agree that the entire MOTU community needs a chance to decide. It isn't as if we are changing the name of REVU, just the description
[17:21] <nhandler> Ok RainCT
[17:22] <ScottK> nhandler: It's been call that for years.  I do think people ought to at least get a chance to object.
[17:24]  * RainCT wonders why REVU is in Softpedia o_O
[17:27] <nhandler> scottk: I still disagree. We do not ask for input when we change a package's description. We don't ask for input when we change a team's description on LP, and we don't ask for input when we change a wiki pages description. I really do not think changing REVU description is a huge deal.
[17:29] <ScottK> nhandler: If you change the description of a team I'm a member of without getting input from the team, I would not appreciate that.  It's not very Ubuntu.
[17:31] <RainCT> ScottK: you didn't complain when the ~revu-uploaders description was updated
[17:31] <ScottK> Did I know?
[17:32] <ScottK> I don't see the harm in a quick mail to the ML saying, "I'm planning on doing X unless anyone objects".
[17:32] <hyperair> i'm curious, how many people here like update-manager to spawn whenever there's an update as opposed to just having update-notifier show an icon in the notification area?
[17:33] <hyperair> and how many don't notice the addition of a new icon in the notification area?
[17:33] <hyperair> especially one so bright and orange as the update-notifier icon
[17:33] <ScottK> I don't use Ubuntu, so I don't have the experience, but I can imagine from the descriptions I wouldn't like the change.
[17:34] <RainCT> hyperair: I guess I won't like it neither, but haven't seen it yet.
[17:34] <ScottK> I'd think a tooltip would be sufficient.
[17:34] <RainCT> Although it may actually be better than the tooltip in some use cases
[17:34] <hyperair> let's all tell that to ubuntu-devel!
[17:34] <RainCT> That damn tooltip once popped up once while I was playing a game and took ages to go away -.-
[17:34] <hyperair> i'm incredibly annoyed at this change
[17:35] <RainCT> Although that may already be fixed with the new notification system
[17:35] <RainCT> But yes, having to dismiss a dialogue asking to update each time there are updates is probably quite annoying, especially as I always upgrade from the terminal (but the icon remembers me to do it)
[17:36] <james_w> RainCT: the new notification system listens for screensaver inhibits and holds messages while they are active
[17:36] <james_w> RainCT: so as long as the game inhibits the screensaver it will work fine
[17:37] <RainCT> james_w: Ah. So I guess the game doesn't :(. Is there some CLI command to add an inhibit?
[17:37] <james_w> gnome-screensaver-inhibit or something
[17:38] <james_w> gnome-screensaver-command -i
[17:38] <james_w> there's "xdg-screensaver suspend", but that's trickier to use
[17:38] <RainCT> james_w: thanks
[17:39] <james_w> pass "-n" and "-r" to the gnome one as well
[17:39] <RainCT> james_w: and how do I delete the inhibit afterwards?
[17:40] <james_w> RainCT: the inhibit is active for as long as the command runs
[17:40] <james_w> I would have thought it was possible to have a command that took another command as argument and inhibited the screensaver for as long as the child was active
[17:41] <asac> anyone has a system that was installed before intrepid?
[17:41] <asac> if so, please paste dpkg --query fontconfig-config | grep obsolete
[17:41] <hyperair> asac: me
[17:41] <RainCT> asac: I have 2 upgraded from Hardy
[17:41] <asac> hyperair: ^^ ;)
[17:41] <asac> RainCT: hardy would be good to see too
[17:41] <hyperair> asac: hardy -> intrepid
[17:42] <asac> hyperair: yes. please run the command and paste it
[17:42] <asac> if there is any output at all ;)
[17:42] <RainCT> james_w: yeah, something like that would rock
[17:42] <hyperair> asac dpkg: unknown option --query
[17:42] <asac> hyperair: RainCT: sorry ... its --status ;)
[17:42] <RainCT> uhm.. how can I put on the network cable without having irssi reconnecting? :P
[17:42]  * asac dump ... made the same mistake twice in 2 minutes ;)
[17:42] <hyperair> RainCT: i think a shell script could do that =\
[17:43] <hyperair> asac:  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/README 296384642206e0c9952d5c73a5451eec obsolete
[17:43] <asac> hyperair: ok. just that?
[17:43] <hyperair> asac: yes just that
[17:43] <james_w> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/121504/
[17:43] <__iron> asac: ive got more
[17:43] <asac> james_w: thanks. when installed? hardy? gutsy?
[17:44] <james_w> umm, feisty?
[17:44] <asac> oh
[17:44] <asac> ok
[17:44] <hyperair> wow that's long
[17:44] <hyperair> heh
[17:44] <asac> james_w: thats less than i expected. i had a bunch more on my since-edgy system
[17:44] <hyperair> i'll probably reinstall for jaunty =\
[17:44] <hyperair> i want to switch to amd64
[17:44] <asac> __iron: please paste
[17:44] <__iron> http://paste.ubuntu.com/121506/
[17:45] <asac> james_w: can you run a md5sum on a few and see if they were changed?
[17:46] <asac> or maybe you __iron  ;)
[17:46] <__iron> asac: ?
[17:46] <james_w> asac: all match dpkg's values
[17:46] <asac> james_w: great. thanks a lot
[17:47] <RainCT> am I still alive?
[17:47] <james_w> RainCT: it's not clear
[17:47] <asac> __iron: nevermind. you can run md5sum on the file and see whether it matches the md5sum in the output
[17:47] <asac> __iron: but james already answered
[17:48] <RainCT> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/121510/plain/ (on one PC, the other one is offline right now)
[17:49] <asac> RainCT: also feisty install?
[17:49] <__iron> asac: one of them http://paste.ubuntu.com/121512/
[17:50] <RainCT> asac: nope, I use to make clean installs when I upgrade
[17:50] <asac> __iron: right. that matches.
[17:50] <asac> RainCT: so you installed when? intrepid?
[17:50] <asac> or even jaunty?
[17:50] <RainCT> asac: Ah. That one is an Intrepid upgraded from Hardy
[17:50] <asac> RainCT: see ;)
[17:51] <asac> so meaning the cruft is from hardy or intrepid
[17:51] <asac> feisty had the same
[17:51] <asac> my edgy had a bunch more ;)
[17:52] <tdomhan> what are menu-files for? to create a node under "applications" I have to provide a .desktop-file, haven't I?
[17:52] <RainCT> tdomhan: menu files are for Debian's menu, .desktop for all others
[17:53] <RainCT> tdomhan: although sometimes menu files are also used in Ubuntu (for example, the default menu in Openbox uses them)
[17:53] <tdomhan> they are not needed at all under ubuntu?
[17:54] <tdomhan> mh ok, just created one, then I will leave it
[17:57] <RainCT> tdomhan: they are encouraged, and not that difficult to create after all
[17:57] <tdomhan> RainCT, kk thanks for the information, I will just create a .desktop file aditionally
[17:58] <RainCT> tdomhan: Okay. Don't forget to run desktop-file-validate on it afterwards
[18:08] <mok0> RainCT: have you ever taken a look at storm?
[18:09] <RainCT> mok0: nope
[18:09] <mok0> RainCT: Looks really cool
[18:10] <mok0> RainCT: I think it's used for LP
[18:10] <ScottK> It is.
[18:10] <RainCT> mok0: what can it do?
[18:11] <mok0> RainCT: it wraps a database in python objects
[18:11] <RainCT> mok0: as in, removing the need for SQL?
[18:11] <mok0> RainCT: yes
[18:12] <mok0> RainCT: SQL is behind the scenes of course
[18:12] <RainCT> I guess persia likes it then :P
[18:12] <mok0> ScottK, have you used it?
[18:12] <ScottK> I have not.
[18:12] <ScottK> IIRC I sponsored you for an upload of it.
[18:13] <mok0> ScottK: yes, that's right!
[18:13] <mok0> ScottK: Good memory!
[18:13] <ScottK> Not usually.  I'm not sure why that one stuck in my head.
[18:13] <mok0> I didn't really take a look at it before, but I think I might use it for my next project
[18:14] <mok0> RainCT: How about rewriting revu using storm :-P
[18:14] <ScottK> I did just upload my first new style python extension.
[18:14] <mok0> ScottK: "new style"?
[18:15] <ScottK> --install-layout=deb
[18:15] <mok0> ah
[18:15] <mok0> Didn't know it was supported already
[18:15] <ScottK> Yep.
[18:15] <RainCT> Uhm. There is SQL in the tutorial
[18:16]  * POX detected "python" and "orm" so he has to mention SQLAlchemy (great module!) :-P
[18:16] <mok0> RainCT: yes, but I don't think you really need to use it
[18:16]  * ScottK waves to pox.
[18:16] <mok0> POX: is that the same idea?
[18:16]  * POX waves back
[18:16] <POX> yu[
[18:16] <POX> yup
[18:17] <POX> but Mike (SQLAlchemy and Mako author) is my hero
[18:17] <mok0> POX: can you tell a bit about the difference/similarity with storm?
[18:17] <POX> just check what SA can do
[18:19] <RainCT> mok0: Looks nice but I see no use for it. Perhaps for a bigger project it's interesting, but here I see it basically as an additional layer which just makes stuff slower :P
[18:19]  * POX is going thru python-sqlalchemy rdependencies again, if all will be 0.5-compatible this time (he contacted maintainers to ping upstream), 0.5.2 will be moved from experimental to unstable today
[18:20] <mok0> RainCT: what can be slower than developing those monster queries?
[18:20] <RainCT> mok0: I can use an object instead of a dictionary with it.. Well.. nice.. and? :P
[18:21] <mok0> RainCT: It abstracts the complexity of the SQL queries
[18:21] <RainCT> and the queries would be the same anyway, I just would have to learn how to write them in a different way first
[18:21] <mok0> RainCT: and how would you handle talking to several databases?
[18:22] <RainCT> we only have one
[18:22] <mok0> RainCT: yes, but you're dissing the module
[18:22] <RainCT> mok0: ?
[18:23] <mok0> RainCT: you're saying it's not useful
[18:23] <RainCT> mok0: I'm saying I don't see how it would be useful particularly for REVU.
[18:23] <mok0> RainCT: but sql quickly gets so complicated that you don't understand what's going on
[18:24] <mok0> RainCT: Yeah, ok
[18:25] <mok0> But looking at sqlalchemy I can't tell what it does that storm doesn't... looks quite the same from a first glance
[18:26] <RainCT> mako rocks, btw :)
[18:26] <mok0> It does!
[18:28] <mok0> sqlalchemy has much more documentation
[18:49] <RainCT> uhm.. how can I concatenate strings inline with C
[18:50] <RainCT> * with C++ (like in Python "a" + var + "b")?
[18:51] <mok0> RainCT: you need the function strcat
[18:51] <RainCT> that's the first I tried, but it fails to compile :/
[18:52] <mok0> RainCT: What?
[18:52] <mok0> pastebin your expression
[18:53] <RainCT> Ah. I need two of them
[18:53] <RainCT> strcat(strcat("[", (char *) sizeof(voices_list)), "]")   *ugly*
[18:54] <mok0> RainCT: you might also use sprintf
[18:54] <RainCT> and it segfaults :(
[18:55] <mok0> RainCT:ok
[18:55] <mok0> RainCT: I'd code that in 2 strcat statements
[18:55] <RainCT> I don't want any variable for that
[18:58] <geser> RainCT: it won't work that way as "[" isn't writable
[18:58] <RainCT> right, just seen that
[18:58] <RainCT> C/C++ is evil :(
[18:59] <geser> the easiest way is to use s(n)printf
[19:00] <RainCT> geser: how would that look like?
[19:01] <RainCT> I don't want to print anything, just pass that as an argument to another function
[19:02] <geser> char buf[100]; snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "[%d]", sizeof(voices_list);
[19:03] <RainCT> thx
[19:03] <geser> RainCT: what is voices_list?
[19:04] <geser> sizeof(voices_list) might don't return what you expect
[19:04] <RainCT> an arra
[19:04] <RainCT> y
[19:04] <geser> on the stack?
[19:04] <geser> of what data types?
[19:04] <RainCT> An espeak_VOICE structure
[19:05] <RainCT> so, a struct
[19:05] <geser> is the array malloc()ed?
[19:05] <RainCT> I don't know.. :P
[19:06] <RainCT> If what you're thinking about is that I may need to divide that with sizeof(espeak_VOICE), the value of that is 20 and sizeof(voices_list) is only 8 :P
[19:06] <geser> if it's malloc()ed than sizeof(voices_list) will return the size of the pointer to that array (4 byte on 32bit and 8 byte on 64bit)
[19:07] <RainCT> d'oh
[19:09] <geser> a pointer doesn't know how large the memory chunk it points to is, you need a separate variable to pass on the actual array size
[19:09] <RainCT> I don't have it :/
[19:09] <RainCT> but nevermind, I think I'm doing this wrong and actually don't need to know the length
[19:09] <RainCT> thanks anyway
[19:15] <mrooney> I copied my Jaunty PPA package to Intrepid and now it doesn't work because it requires python-central >= 0.6.9, but I am not sure why
[19:15] <ScottK> Because that's what it was compiled with.
[19:16] <ScottK> You have to upload source and build it in Intrepid.
[19:16] <mrooney> ScottK: ahh okay, I tried to do that but launchpad kept rejecting it
[19:17] <ScottK> You have to use a different revision number.
[19:17] <RainCT> geser: arr.. after all I do need it :(. Is there some other way to get the size other than incrementing a counter variable in a loop, then?
[19:17] <mrooney> ScottK: just doing like a ~ppa2 won't work?
[19:17] <ScottK> Yes  Should.
[19:18] <ScottK> I usually do ~releaseX~ppaY
[19:18] <geser> RainCT: no
[19:18] <mrooney> ScottK: do you know if I can delete the Intrepid package that was copied so the old one is installable?
[19:18] <geser> RainCT: in C the memory management is your task
[19:19]  * RainCT decides he hates c/C++ and whoever invented it :P
[19:19] <ScottK> Now you're getting into questions about how PPA's work, not general packaging, so I'd ask in #launchpad.
[19:20] <mrooney> ScottK: okay, thanks
[19:21] <mrooney> ScottK: does the changelog version stuff matter? ie it is Jaunty so all the versions there have Jaunty, do I have to change any of that to Intrepid for it to work there?
[19:21] <mrooney> or is that not relevant
[19:21] <ScottK> Yes.  You need to change the upload target to intrepid.
[19:22] <mrooney> ScottK: can I just change the most recent one, or do they all have to be Intrepid?
[19:22] <ScottK> Most recent is all that matters.
[19:24] <mrooney> ScottK: excellent! okay now hopefully one last question, can I leave the .orig.tar.gz as it is, and just change the extracted debian/ ?
[19:25] <ScottK> Yes
[20:38] <jcfp> Does having a hard dependency on something in multiverse put a package also in multiverse as a result?
[20:38] <ScottK> Yes
[20:38] <ScottK> Recommends too.
[20:39] <jcfp> ah.
[20:41] <jcfp> ScottK: must such a move be requested separately or can it be done at the same time as a minor bugfix update (by simply mentioning it should be done)
[20:42] <ScottK> It should be a separate bug.
[20:42] <geser> jcfp: file a bug requesting the move to multiverse
[20:42] <jcfp> Does it take long, should I subscribe somebody special?
[20:46] <geser> the usual sponsoring rules apply (if needed) or ubuntu-archive (else)
[20:47] <jcfp> geser: Just the separate bug for moving to multiverse, so I'll subscribe ubuntu-archive then. thanks
[20:50] <ScottK> jcfp: It should still be reviewed by a MOTU first.
[20:50] <jcfp> ScottK: the move?
[20:50] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:51] <jcfp> package is sabnzbdplus, recommends unrar (= multiverse)
[20:51] <jcfp> #333016
[20:51] <ScottK> jcfp: Better to change it to unrar-free | unrar and then it's fine.
[20:52] <jcfp> doesn't work with that program
[20:52] <ScottK> Oh.
[20:52] <geser> or move unrar to Suggests
[20:52] <ScottK> That was my next suggestion.
[20:52] <jcfp> geser: already got complaints coz it's only recommended
[20:53] <geser> does it work without unrar? if yes, the suggest it only and keep it in universe than move it because of this into multiverse
[20:53] <ScottK> jcfp: Can you adapt sabnzbdplus to work with unrar-free?
[20:54] <jcfp> geser: "work" as in start-up, yes. With a non-fatal warning. But the functionality is something the vast majority of users would want
[20:54] <geser> ScottK: unrar-free doesn't work with .rar in current use
[20:55] <ScottK> Oh.
[20:55] <jcfp> ScottK: don't think so, at least not without alot of work
[20:56] <ScottK> I would drop it to suggests and don't worry about complaints.
[20:58] <jcfp> What so bad about being in multiverse that one would go that far to prevent that?
[21:00] <geser> putting a FLOSS software into the "non-free" archive
[21:00] <ScottK> For one, it's the non-free section so stuff in there tends to get lower priority for work from MOTU.
[21:00] <ScottK> The 'proper' solution to this problem is to convince the unrar licensor to use a free license.
[21:01] <ScottK> Moving things that might use it to mulitiverse is just a bandaid on the real problem.
[21:03] <jcfp> I realise that, but the other option, making unrar to a mere suggest isn't looking too good either in that respect.
[21:18] <ScottK> The response to complaints from users I think is go ask the unrar people to fix their license.
[21:21] <jcfp> So it ends up between having a package where it doesn belong, or users ending up installing a package that misses important functionality :/
[21:22] <jcfp> nice.
[21:27] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:28] <lifeless> jcfp: important functionality that depends on unfree code; hmmm -> I'm not sure that that isn't an oxymoron for a free software distribution
[21:30] <jcfp> lifeless: that's not a choice of even the upstream devs: things on usenet tend to get distributed as rar files, and the only way to support that seems to be a non-free app
[21:30] <lifeless> or don't access those files, and tell the poster to use free software. There is always a choice, even if its not simple or convenient
[21:31] <lifeless> anyhow, its too early for this :P
[21:33] <jcfp> lifeless: good luck contacting posters on usenet ;)
[21:36] <jcfp> ScottK: if that bug needs a motu ack, please be so kind. When choosing between two evils, I'd at least want the package to work for end users - anything else kind of defeats the purpose of packaging in the first place..
[23:03] <anakron> Hi all
[23:11] <anakron> ping Laney, hi, how are you?
[23:24] <anakron> ping persia, hi, how are you?
[23:32] <anakron> there is a  motu here that can answer a question?
[23:34] <RAOF> !ask | anakron
[23:34] <anakron> XD
[23:34] <anakron> ok
[23:34] <anakron> how i can apply quilt patches without errors?
[23:34] <RAOF> The answer is "probably, but they'll be waiting for you to ask your question first :)
[23:35] <RAOF> anakron: Well, that will depend on what the errors are.
[23:35] <anakron> because im trying to apply them and i got one right applied
[23:35] <anakron> and the second one says that i must refrsh the first one
[23:35] <anakron> but even if i refresh the first one i can get to apply the second patch
[23:36] <RAOF> You probably want to pastebin a full terminal session of what you're trying to do; I may be able to spot the problem there.
[23:36] <anakron> mm
[23:36] <anakron> for ex
[23:36] <anakron> i get source of qtpfsgui
[23:36] <anakron> then i go to debian/patches
[23:36] <RAOF> You know about pastebin?
[23:37] <anakron> pastebin is to show the things that terminal says
[23:37] <anakron> like a webpage?
[23:37] <RAOF> !pastebin
[23:37] <RAOF> It's a _really_ good idea to just copy the text that's in the terminal there; that gives me exactly what you've done, and what error messages have come up.
[23:38] <anakron> ok im doing it
[23:41] <anakron> :O
[23:41] <anakron> it says that there is an error into a patch
[23:43] <anakron> how you can edit a patch?
[23:43] <RAOF> Right.  So, what you want to do is copy all the text in that terminal session to a pastebin.
[23:43] <RAOF> Then I can see what's happening, and can hopefully help you.
[23:43] <anakron> nono i understand it
[23:43] <anakron> but i need to modify the patch
[23:44] <anakron> that the reason of why it not added properly
[23:44] <RAOF> Well, at worst, you can just edit the patch in a text editor.
[23:45] <anakron> ups, my error
[23:45] <RAOF> But you should be able to push the patch, then fix it up so it applies cleanly.
[23:45] <anakron> im paste it in pastebin
[23:47] <anakron> http://paste.ubuntu.com/121614/
[23:47] <anakron> look it
[23:48] <RAOF> Why are you in debian/patches?
[23:48] <anakron> where i must apply it?
[23:48] <RAOF> If you run "QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt push -a" in the root of the package directory, does that work?
[23:48] <anakron> i get confused because i try to do it in source folder but i can't
[23:49] <RAOF> Yeah, quilt is a little bit wierd.
[23:49] <anakron> it runs
[23:49] <anakron> thanks!
[23:55] <mrooney> Okay, I have a package in jaunty/universe, I can still get bugfix only / translation sync updates in right?
[23:58] <anakron> one other: if when i try to do debuild -S, i got "Latest changelog entry has no Ubuntu version number" what can i do?
[23:59] <directhex> mrooney, yes
[23:59] <directhex> anakron, is this for a PPA?
[23:59] <anakron> no
[23:59] <anakron> ping RA0F, i got with debuild "Patch 10_remove_encoding_from_desktop_file does not remove cleanly (refresh it or enforce with -f)
[23:59] <anakron> "
[23:59] <mrooney> directhex: are there any examples of an appropriate bug report that I could use as a template for a sync?