| [reed] | asac: "bloody dailies" hehe | 00:36 |
|---|---|---|
| [reed] | indeed | 00:37 |
| fta | ? | 00:40 |
| BUGabundo | lol | 00:41 |
| [reed] | [06:44:05AM] <asac> but we also want folks like [reed] that like to run the bloody dailies ... we want to help discover and track down regression for instance | 00:43 |
| fta | that would be nice indeed. | 00:43 |
| marquinos | Hi! | 10:11 |
| gnomefreak | i really hate today | 14:16 |
| gnomefreak | we really need to shut liferea up. it tells you its updating feeds. if you have alot (like me) it keeps asking i had over 20 of them cleared them and the panel(task panel) was filled up and still coming | 15:02 |
| fta | ?? i have 50+ feeds in liferea, it's not asking me anything | 15:04 |
| gnomefreak | fta: it tells me that it is updating feed would i like to view it continue and so on there are maybe 5 choices | 15:08 |
| fta | eh? is that a new option? could you screenshot it? | 15:09 |
| gnomefreak | there is an option it looks like | 15:09 |
| gnomefreak | yes new option check if you have the first choice marked in prefferences>GUI | 15:10 |
| gnomefreak | i cant show it since they are all updated | 15:10 |
| gnomefreak | im gonna try again | 15:11 |
| gnomefreak | ok let me find a place to paste it to | 15:12 |
| gnomefreak | post it to | 15:12 |
| gnomefreak | fta: here is some of them i kills liferea right after screenshot http://www.flickr.com/photos/26378196@N05/3300572344/ | 15:16 |
| gnomefreak | 1.4.23-0ubuntu2 is he version | 15:19 |
| fta | just uncheck the pref, it's unchecked here, i don't see that | 15:19 |
| gnomefreak | ok i wasnt sure if thast was it or not | 15:19 |
| gnomefreak | would be nice if it was just one popup | 15:20 |
| fta | file a wish bug :) | 15:22 |
| asac | fta: any chances to get v8 on amd64 ;)? | 15:23 |
| BUGabundo1 | v8? | 15:23 |
| fta | asac, with ia32 libs, yes | 15:23 |
| fta | native, no | 15:23 |
| asac | fta: yes, but can we properly build with ia32-libs? | 15:24 |
| fta | yes | 15:24 |
| BUGabundo1 | what's v8? | 15:24 |
| asac | fta: what do i need? ia32-libs-dev? | 15:24 |
| fta | BUGabundo1, the javascript engine used by chrome/chromium | 15:24 |
| BUGabundo1 | ahh I thought so | 15:24 |
| BUGabundo1 | if you guys build it, let me know | 15:24 |
| BUGabundo1 | I would like to test chromium on Ubuntu 64 bits | 15:25 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: look in ~chromium team ppa | 15:25 |
| asac | chromium-team | 15:25 |
| asac | hmm | 15:25 |
| asac | there is no PPA :) | 15:25 |
| asac | so i guess its fta ppa | 15:25 |
| fta | asac, it's tricky to do because between hardy, intrepid and jaunty, the content of the ia32 packages changed | 15:25 |
| BUGabundo1 | asac: I have another user on our locoteam that is aving trouble getting pptp vpn working with PPAs NM | 15:26 |
| fta | the problem is libnss | 15:26 |
| asac | fta: yeah. i am only interested in jaunty++ | 15:26 |
| BUGabundo1 | I'll ask him to open a bug for it (ibex)... what do you need for debug? | 15:26 |
| LLStarks | hey guys. | 15:26 |
| LLStarks | how's your sunday so far? | 15:26 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: do i already ship latest crack for ibex? or still 0.7 final? | 15:26 |
| asac | LLStarks: i tried a computer ban, but failed miserably ;) | 15:27 |
| LLStarks | eh? | 15:27 |
| fta | asac, now that my i386 build is back on track, i'll see what i can do for amd64 | 15:27 |
| asac | then i tried IRC ban and found that i needed to ask fta about something ;) | 15:27 |
| BUGabundo1 | no idea asac | 15:27 |
| BUGabundo1 | I'm on jaunty | 15:27 |
| LLStarks | are you insinuating something? | 15:27 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: let me check | 15:27 |
| BUGabundo1 | Feb 22 12:12:31 hjrocha-laptop pppd[26722]: pppd 2.4.5 started by root, uid | 15:27 |
| LLStarks | or have i not gotten enough sleep? | 15:27 |
| BUGabundo1 | humm | 15:27 |
| asac | LLStarks: no. just chatting unimportant things ;) ... feel free to ignore me | 15:28 |
| BUGabundo1 | pppd 245 ? that one is recent | 15:28 |
| BUGabundo1 | I remember it was the one you forgot to update until last week | 15:28 |
| LLStarks | fontconfig still giving you the blues? | 15:28 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: so i didnt update NM for ibex yet | 15:28 |
| BUGabundo1 | I guess that could be the reason | 15:28 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: better wait till final stuff is there | 15:28 |
| BUGabundo1 | why his VPN is falingin | 15:28 |
| asac | err .7.1 i mean | 15:28 |
| asac | LLStarks: yes. do you know something about fontconfig? | 15:29 |
| BUGabundo1 | asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/121444/ | 15:29 |
| LLStarks | nope. | 15:29 |
| LLStarks | and neither do the ubuntu devs. | 15:29 |
| BUGabundo1 | here is what he emailed me | 15:29 |
| LLStarks | <____< | 15:29 |
| LLStarks | is 3.1 going to be default in jaunty or karmic? | 15:29 |
| asac | LLStarks: right, we are still hoping for wisdom or bravery | 15:30 |
| asac | LLStarks: karmic | 15:30 |
| asac | so we still have some time left ;) | 15:30 |
| asac | well. if ffox suddenly was final in the next two weeks we might reconsider the 3.0 decision | 15:30 |
| LLStarks | bug 305394 = depressing read | 15:30 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 305394 in fontconfig "No subpixel smoothing" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305394 | 15:30 |
| asac | but i dont see that happening | 15:31 |
| asac | LLStarks: dont read it then ;) | 15:31 |
| asac | LLStarks: i will have to bug our debian fontconfig maintainer I guess | 15:31 |
| asac | if he doesnt know, nobody will | 15:31 |
| * BUGabundo1 would really like to see 3.1 as default | 15:32 | |
| BUGabundo1 | I can't use 3.0 anymore... to slow! | 15:32 |
| LLStarks | going through debian is going to be the death of ubuntu. people want to ship jaunty with ext4 support in key applications. | 15:32 |
| asac | LLStarks: our current problem is that we need to understand why we made those changes in the psat | 15:32 |
| LLStarks | *without | 15:33 |
| LLStarks | to hell with debian merges! | 15:33 |
| BUGabundo1 | asac: so the anwser to the user is : "wait a few more days until fix is uploaded to PPA"? | 15:33 |
| asac | LLStarks: well. in fontconfig case its Keith Packard <keithp@debian.org> | 15:33 |
| asac | dont see how that can be the death ;) | 15:33 |
| LLStarks | better put in writing and submit it to the debian bug system. | 15:34 |
| LLStarks | every debian packager i've ever spoken too has been apathetic towards the issues i report. | 15:34 |
| BUGabundo1 | fta: so no deb yet on https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team ? | 15:35 |
| asac | LLStarks: well. it requires some exercise to talk to debian folks. | 15:35 |
| asac | you need to know the right buttons and handles ;) | 15:35 |
| fta | BUGabundo1: no, i'm still unhappy with the status of the package, so it's in my PPA only for now. I will do dailies soon like for mozilla | 15:36 |
| LLStarks | well, their bug submission process is needlessly labrynthine and commandline based. that speaks volumes about them. | 15:36 |
| BUGabundo1 | on your ppa? | 15:36 |
| * BUGabundo1 checks it out | 15:36 | |
| asac | LLStarks: it helps to not get bugged by shitloads of crap | 15:37 |
| BUGabundo1 | asac: so the answer to the user is : "wait a few more days until fix is uploaded to PPA"? | 15:37 |
| asac | yes. thats better i think | 15:37 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: ^^ | 15:37 |
| BUGabundo1 | ok | 15:37 |
| LLStarks | mea culpa for distracting asac. | 15:37 |
| asac | there are a few things broken in 0.7 about noauth parameter ;) | 15:37 |
| BUGabundo1 | fta: I'll need to force --i386 right? | 15:37 |
| asac | LLStarks: all fine :) | 15:37 |
| asac | just dont be pessimistic all over the place | 15:38 |
| asac | that wont make things better for sure | 15:38 |
| asac | and even feels bad for yourself and everyone around you ;) | 15:38 |
| BUGabundo1 | asac: FYI this is on Interpid... | 15:38 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: yes i know ;) | 15:38 |
| BUGabundo1 | so archive NM fails to connect with PPTP, and the PPA version needs a bump in version | 15:38 |
| LLStarks | its hard when you run into the stupidest bugs and have to jump through hoops to find the proper person to complain to. | 15:38 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: get the pppd command line he sees | 15:38 |
| asac | while connect attempts | 15:39 |
| asac | ps -eaf | grep pppd | 15:39 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: ^^ | 15:39 |
| fta | BUGabundo1, i won't advertise these debs just yet, please don't. | 15:39 |
| asac | then you see a command line. | 15:39 |
| BUGabundo1 | asac: just making sure... a lot of stuf and versions go under our nails... we get confused | 15:39 |
| LLStarks | the linux community universe is by design, very bureaucratic | 15:39 |
| BUGabundo1 | fta I won't of course (/me looks at google spider eheh) but non the less I can test it, right? | 15:40 |
| fta | yes, but it's only 32bit for now. | 15:40 |
| fta | let me work on the ia32 thing | 15:40 |
| asac | LLStarks: just be nice and constructive and things will move easier in every part of life. same is even more true when working with mostly volunteers | 15:42 |
| asac | in FOSS | 15:42 |
| LLStarks | i do. but my patches always get buried in lists. | 15:42 |
| LLStarks | and that pisses me off royally. | 15:42 |
| LLStarks | so, i turn passive-aggressive. | 15:42 |
| asac | LLStarks: thats a sad thing then. | 15:43 |
| asac | LLStarks: what patches do you have that went unattended? | 15:43 |
| LLStarks | not really my patches. | 15:43 |
| LLStarks | i do a lot of advocacy for shy devs. | 15:43 |
| fta | LLStarks, that was my case 2 years+ ago too, i joined some teams and contributed directly, now i'm happy | 15:43 |
| asac | we are working on improving our sponsoring every day | 15:43 |
| asac | but its like keeping your room clean - if you are overloaded it happens that things stack up. | 15:44 |
| LLStarks | basically, if community X has a patch for problem Y but is incapable of communicating with dev team Z, i step in and connect the chain. | 15:44 |
| asac | LLStarks: thats great. thanks for doing that | 15:45 |
| LLStarks | that's how i got libass support into VLC. | 15:45 |
| asac | we need more folks doing just that | 15:45 |
| LLStarks | <________< | 15:45 |
| asac | but we also need more folks goig through endless list of bugs to find the gems | 15:45 |
| LLStarks | i know jack about coding though. | 15:45 |
| LLStarks | i can't say that i make up for it by being a mighty fine tester. | 15:46 |
| LLStarks | heck, i find bugs even when i'm not looking for them. | 15:46 |
| asac | you should become a bug triager then. if you can formulate stuff in a developer-understandable fashion thats a huge win | 15:46 |
| asac | look at manyb ugs in ubuntu, there is so much noise in there that you just work on a different bug because you dont uderstand what its about after looking a few minutes | 15:47 |
| LLStarks | i've thought about it. even though i've been using for a few years, i'm still quite a linux newbie. | 15:47 |
| BUGabundo1 | LLStarks: I do the same.... im a really nice alpha/beta tester | 15:49 |
| BUGabundo1 | but instead connecting devs to devs | 15:49 |
| LLStarks | then there's the issue of draconian entrance barriers *cough*amo editors*cough* | 15:49 |
| BUGabundo1 | I make a liason between users and devs | 15:49 |
| asac | LLStarks: if you feel there are entrace barriers too high thats a problem | 15:49 |
| asac | LLStarks: which entrance did you try? | 15:49 |
| LLStarks | amo editor. my extension has been in review hell for months for a simple version bump. | 15:50 |
| LLStarks | and then my friend's extension has been trying to leave the sandbox for almost a year. | 15:50 |
| asac | LLStarks: yes, i think AMO has process issues. they know that and work on improving that afaik | 15:50 |
| asac | [reed]: ^^ ? | 15:50 |
| LLStarks | they are grandly understaffed but require such high demands to even become an editor. | 15:51 |
| asac | LLStarks: well. there is always a trade-off | 15:51 |
| LLStarks | obviously they need to lower their standards. | 15:51 |
| asac | they are overloaded, but dont want to lower the quality of reviews (if that is what editor is about) | 15:51 |
| LLStarks | well, my beef is how slowly they approve updates. | 15:51 |
| asac | LLStarks: i am not sure how the process works, but it could be redesigned to be two staged | 15:52 |
| asac | like "junior-reviewers" doing the first round and then the "senior-folks" working only on the already filtered/reduced list | 15:52 |
| LLStarks | 6 months for an approval to update your extension is just plain wrong. | 15:52 |
| asac | when thats done they could more easily stack up the first level and also get those to senior level after a while | 15:52 |
| asac | LLStarks: agreed. there are individual problems for sure, but thats not true everywhere | 15:53 |
| LLStarks | that is kind of reflected in my current liaison work. | 15:54 |
| asac | LLStarks: you should talk to dholbach and jcastro | 15:54 |
| asac | about your community work and ideas how to improve inter-project collaboration | 15:55 |
| LLStarks | i'm acting as a go-between for interested parties and the mplayer devs | 15:55 |
| LLStarks | but whenever i submit patches from the shy devs, they are glossed over and ignored while other things are approved with barely a glance. | 15:55 |
| asac | LLStarks: right. maybe you need someone to get you better connected before being able to effectively mediate patches | 15:57 |
| LLStarks | i'm not mediating really. i'm just an advocate submitting patches to a dev list and trying to explain their importance. | 15:58 |
| asac | LLStarks: where do you submit to? | 15:59 |
| LLStarks | a mailing list | 15:59 |
| LLStarks | a highly inefficient mailing list. | 16:00 |
| LLStarks | sure, it's a pipermail setup. but they're very little transparency on progress. | 16:00 |
| asac | LLStarks: concrete examples ;)? | 16:00 |
| LLStarks | eh? i'm not naming names. | 16:01 |
| LLStarks | i'm just saying that if a patch or issue is not immediately addressed by the list subscribers, you have nag it to the top. | 16:02 |
| LLStarks | *have to | 16:02 |
| LLStarks | it's like pissing in an ocean. | 16:02 |
| asac | well | 16:02 |
| asac | i agree that its not always obvious how to get developers attention | 16:03 |
| asac | but its different by project | 16:03 |
| fta | what is the green plus sign at the bottom left of some messages in gwibber? | 16:05 |
| LLStarks | if you bump your patches, you come off as an ass. if you try to do 1-on-1 with specific people, you aren't transparent with the other subscribers. | 16:05 |
| LLStarks | it's a double-edged sword. | 16:05 |
| BUGabundo1 | fta: its to expand the networks | 16:05 |
| BUGabundo1 | I got a message sent to you from multiple places | 16:06 |
| asac | fta: thats when you have the same message through multiple channels | 16:06 |
| asac | e.g. if i send to twitter and identi.ca i get that | 16:06 |
| BUGabundo1 | yea | 16:06 |
| BUGabundo1 | and jorge is a naughty boy | 16:06 |
| fta | oh, but i'm only on identi.ca | 16:06 |
| LLStarks | nevertheless, i enjoy doing what i can. heck, if it wasn't for linux, i would be going to law school instead of go for a masters of computer science. | 16:06 |
| asac | fta: so was it arnegoetje who added the hints to fontconfig? | 16:06 |
| BUGabundo1 | he closed ALL jaiku bugs on gwibber | 16:06 |
| BUGabundo1 | saying jaiku is DEAD | 16:07 |
| asac | fta: thats strange ;) ... maybe you sent two time the same message in the same minute and thats a bug? | 16:07 |
| BUGabundo1 | fta: that is strange | 16:07 |
| BUGabundo1 | screen shot? | 16:07 |
| fta | it's not my message | 16:07 |
| asac | fta: then maybe he did that ;) | 16:07 |
| BUGabundo1 | asac: I've seen it merge 2 messages wrongly | 16:07 |
| asac | fta: check on the website if tehre are two messages from him | 16:07 |
| BUGabundo1 | there are 2 bugs on LP for that | 16:07 |
| asac | BUGabundo1: ah ok. could be that then | 16:07 |
| * BUGabundo1 checks fta profile | 16:08 | |
| asac | fta: ? at lest the hinting medium patch was added by him | 16:08 |
| BUGabundo1 | "effiejayx" | 16:08 |
| fta | http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/Gwibber+plus.png | 16:08 |
| BUGabundo1 | there are two DUPELICATED messages from this guy | 16:08 |
| BUGabundo1 | maybe gwibber out smarted it self and merged them | 16:08 |
| BUGabundo1 | first time is see it doing so... | 16:09 |
| BUGabundo1 | lol | 16:09 |
| BUGabundo1 | but good non the less | 16:09 |
| fta | asac, no idea about fontconfig, i've spent enough time on this already :P | 16:13 |
| fta | asac, http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/41e9154311779e1a | 16:15 |
| asac | fta: ok. i will try something for fontconfig | 16:19 |
| asac | lets see what happens here | 16:19 |
| asac | how can i reproduce the issue? ffox 3.1 -> bad fonts? | 16:19 |
| asac | fonts look the same on 3.2 for me | 16:19 |
| asac | so using that | 16:19 |
| fta | all the details are in the mozilla bug | 16:23 |
| asac | fta: try the mt2 fontconfig build from the mt ppa | 17:36 |
| asac | fta: not sure when it finishes ;) | 17:36 |
| asac | since mt1 is still building | 17:36 |
| asac | fta: can you plesae run: | 17:36 |
| asac | dpkg --query fontconfig-config | pastebinit -i - ;) | 17:37 |
| asac | err i mean --status ;) | 17:37 |
| BUGabundo | dpkg: unknown option --query | 17:37 |
| asac | BUGabundo: read last line ;) | 17:37 |
| BUGabundo | http://paste.ubuntu.com/121500/ | 17:37 |
| BUGabundo | you are too fast 4me | 17:37 |
| asac | i cannot really say, but for me everything seems much faster after i did this fontconfig mt2 ;) | 17:38 |
| asac | BUGabundo: that looks quite ok. when did you install that system? | 17:39 |
| BUGabundo | a few days after ibex come out | 17:39 |
| asac | i mean not ok wrt what my package fixes. | 17:39 |
| asac | BUGabundo: ok thats good | 17:39 |
| asac | at elast you dont have a bunch of obsolete files lying around | 17:39 |
| BUGabundo | and then distupdate to jaunty when archives were open | 17:39 |
| asac | http://paste.ubuntu.com/121496/ | 17:39 |
| asac | thats what i had | 17:39 |
| asac | thats why i wondered if you had obsolete too | 17:39 |
| BUGabundo | I try to keep my system clean | 17:39 |
| BUGabundo | 10GiBs / makes me do it | 17:40 |
| asac | my system dates back to edgy i think | 17:40 |
| BUGabundo | I don't know how you guys manage that! | 17:50 |
| asac | BUGabundo: heh | 17:51 |
| asac | BUGabundo: just think twice before installing something | 17:51 |
| asac | and remember to uninstall when you see that it has no sense what you wanted to try | 17:52 |
| asac | autoremove is your friend too | 17:52 |
| asac | sudo apt-get autoremove | 17:52 |
| BUGabundo | asac: I never think twice while testing | 17:52 |
| BUGabundo | lol | 17:52 |
| asac | see ... there we found the culprid. | 17:52 |
| asac | see ... there we found the culprit | 17:52 |
| asac | at least we you now know how to fix it ;) | 17:53 |
| asac | fta: i really think its good now. at least it honours all gnome settings ;) | 17:53 |
| asac | fta: if there are regressions with non-gnome apps with this update let me know | 17:53 |
| asac | fta: i think i regressed some default font though ... so instead of Bitstream it should be Dejavu ... i just dropped the patch ;) | 17:58 |
| * asac feels blind wrt fonts and their appearence | 18:13 | |
| * asac always found that best shapes is the best on his LCD ;) | 18:13 | |
| fta | back | 19:05 |
| fta | asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/121527/ | 19:05 |
| fta | asac, oh, a bunch of obsolete files, so it's a packaging mistake and it's not visible on fresh installs | 19:31 |
| asac | fta: yeah. please remove them and test with the mt packages | 19:52 |
| asac | fta: seems you have the same files as i do | 19:52 |
| asac | fta: did you install edgy? | 19:52 |
| asac | or even dapper? | 19:52 |
| asac | (ihad pastes from feisty and hardy ... those were just the conf.avail ones) | 19:53 |
| [reed] | asac: ah, he's gone | 19:54 |
| [reed] | yeah, AMO team is working on improving that | 19:54 |
| [reed] | I can poke people if needed | 19:54 |
| asac | bug 332992 | 19:56 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 332992 in fontconfig "fontconfig-config installs have accumulated obsolete config files that can lead to unpredictable results" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332992 | 19:56 |
| asac | [reed]: not needed. just wanted you input as he claimed amo as an example where contributing is blocked by unresponsive devs | 19:56 |
| asac | for outsiders | 19:56 |
| [reed] | s/devs/editors/ | 19:56 |
| [reed] | :) | 19:56 |
| [reed] | completely different group | 19:56 |
| asac | yeah | 19:56 |
| asac | but this was part of a broader complain that those folks having power and knowledge to apply changes/fixes/review usually dont look at outsiders | 19:57 |
| asac | while giving folks with credits a higher prio | 19:57 |
| asac | (which is normal imo) | 19:57 |
| [reed] | yeah | 19:57 |
| asac | of course could be improved. in the end i think he had a few unhappy experiences because he didnt know the right buttons/lists | 19:58 |
| asac | and hence thinks that we dont care for outsiders | 19:58 |
| emgent | asac: i have some question about firefox in hardy/intrepid about branding, have you little bit time ? | 20:14 |
| emgent | s/question/questions/ | 20:14 |
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| asac | emgent: ? | 21:50 |
| fta | asac, cdbs now runs lintian if it's available | 21:55 |
| asac | fta: hmm. i use debuild which runs it anyway | 21:57 |
| fta | i wonder if i should bump gwibber once again | 22:08 |
| fta | ubuntu3 ? | 22:08 |
| BUGabundo | why? | 22:08 |
| fta | because it has been rejected once again (twice) | 22:09 |
| fta | arch all vs any | 22:09 |
| BUGabundo | ah | 22:09 |
| fta | i fixed the python 2.6 bug btw, but then they fixed python so the fix is no longer needed | 22:10 |
| BUGabundo | ehe | 22:10 |
| BUGabundo | I saw | 22:10 |
| BUGabundo | "they"= doko | 22:10 |
| fta | yes | 22:10 |
| fta | asac, what do you think? | 22:11 |
| BUGabundo | that what happens when one reads all apt-changes | 22:11 |
| fta | asac, ubuntu1 rejected twice, ubuntu2 still in the queue: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=gwibber should i name the fix ubuntu3 or 2 or 1? | 22:12 |
| fta | maybe not 1 as 2 is still there | 22:12 |
| asac | fta: ask seb | 22:24 |
| asac | thought it didnt work with all | 22:25 |
| asac | but maybe i mixed that up when looking | 22:25 |
| asac | makes no sense to have it any though | 22:25 |
| fta | seb only made the 1st review | 22:30 |
| fta | well, i'll keep it open for now | 22:30 |
| dtchen | bumping the version is always sane | 22:53 |
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