[00:36] <[reed]> asac: "bloody dailies" hehe
[00:37] <[reed]> indeed
[00:40] <fta> ?
[00:41] <BUGabundo> lol
[00:43] <[reed]> [06:44:05AM] <asac> but we also want folks like [reed] that like to run the bloody dailies ... we want to help discover and track down regression for instance
[00:43] <fta> that would be nice indeed.
[10:11] <marquinos> Hi!
[14:16] <gnomefreak> i really hate today
[15:02] <gnomefreak> we really need to shut liferea up. it tells you its updating feeds. if you have alot (like me) it keeps asking i had over 20 of them cleared them and the panel(task panel) was filled up and still coming
[15:04] <fta> ?? i have 50+ feeds in liferea, it's not asking me anything
[15:08] <gnomefreak> fta: it tells me that it is updating feed would i like to view it continue and so on there are maybe 5 choices
[15:09] <fta> eh? is that a new option? could you screenshot it?
[15:09] <gnomefreak> there is an option it looks like
[15:10] <gnomefreak> yes new option check if you have the first choice marked in prefferences>GUI
[15:10] <gnomefreak> i cant show it since they are all updated
[15:11] <gnomefreak> im gonna try again
[15:12] <gnomefreak> ok let me find a place to paste it to
[15:12] <gnomefreak> post it to
[15:16] <gnomefreak> fta: here is some of them i kills liferea right after screenshot http://www.flickr.com/photos/26378196@N05/3300572344/
[15:19] <gnomefreak> 1.4.23-0ubuntu2 is he version
[15:19] <fta> just uncheck the pref, it's unchecked here, i don't see that
[15:19] <gnomefreak> ok i wasnt sure if thast was it or not
[15:20] <gnomefreak> would be nice if it was just one popup
[15:22] <fta> file a wish bug :)
[15:23] <asac> fta: any chances to get v8 on amd64 ;)?
[15:23] <BUGabundo1> v8?
[15:23] <fta> asac, with ia32 libs, yes
[15:23] <fta> native, no
[15:24] <asac> fta: yes, but can we properly build with ia32-libs?
[15:24] <fta> yes
[15:24] <BUGabundo1> what's v8?
[15:24] <asac> fta: what do i need? ia32-libs-dev?
[15:24] <fta> BUGabundo1, the javascript engine used by chrome/chromium
[15:24] <BUGabundo1> ahh I thought so
[15:24] <BUGabundo1> if you guys build it, let me know
[15:25] <BUGabundo1> I would like to test chromium on Ubuntu 64 bits
[15:25] <asac> BUGabundo1: look in ~chromium team ppa
[15:25] <asac> chromium-team
[15:25] <asac> hmm
[15:25] <asac> there is no PPA :)
[15:25] <asac> so i guess its fta ppa
[15:25] <fta> asac, it's tricky to do because between hardy, intrepid and jaunty, the content of the ia32 packages changed
[15:26] <BUGabundo1> asac: I have another user on our locoteam that  is aving trouble getting pptp vpn working with PPAs NM
[15:26] <fta> the problem is libnss
[15:26] <asac> fta: yeah. i am only interested in jaunty++
[15:26] <BUGabundo1> I'll ask him to open a bug for it (ibex)... what do you need for debug?
[15:26] <LLStarks> hey guys.
[15:26] <LLStarks> how's your sunday so far?
[15:26] <asac> BUGabundo1: do i already ship latest crack for ibex? or still 0.7 final?
[15:27] <asac> LLStarks: i tried a computer ban, but failed miserably ;)
[15:27] <LLStarks> eh?
[15:27] <fta> asac, now that my i386 build is back on track, i'll see what i can do for amd64
[15:27] <asac> then i tried IRC ban and found that i needed to ask fta about something ;)
[15:27] <BUGabundo1> no idea asac
[15:27] <BUGabundo1> I'm on jaunty
[15:27] <LLStarks> are you insinuating something?
[15:27] <asac> BUGabundo1: let me check
[15:27] <BUGabundo1> Feb 22 12:12:31 hjrocha-laptop pppd[26722]: pppd 2.4.5 started by root, uid
[15:27] <LLStarks> or have i not gotten enough sleep?
[15:27] <BUGabundo1> humm
[15:28] <asac> LLStarks: no. just chatting unimportant things ;) ... feel free to ignore me
[15:28] <BUGabundo1> pppd 245 ? that one is recent
[15:28] <BUGabundo1> I remember it was the one you forgot to update until last week
[15:28] <LLStarks> fontconfig still giving you the blues?
[15:28] <asac> BUGabundo1: so i didnt update NM for ibex yet
[15:28] <BUGabundo1> I guess that could be the reason
[15:28] <asac> BUGabundo1: better wait till final stuff is there
[15:28] <BUGabundo1> why his VPN is falingin
[15:28] <asac> err .7.1 i mean
[15:29] <asac> LLStarks: yes. do you know something about fontconfig?
[15:29] <BUGabundo1> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/121444/
[15:29] <LLStarks> nope.
[15:29] <LLStarks> and neither do the ubuntu devs.
[15:29] <BUGabundo1> here is what he emailed me
[15:29] <LLStarks> <____<
[15:29] <LLStarks> is 3.1 going to be default in jaunty or karmic?
[15:30] <asac> LLStarks: right, we are still hoping for wisdom or bravery
[15:30] <asac> LLStarks: karmic
[15:30] <asac> so we still have some time left ;)
[15:30] <asac> well. if ffox suddenly was final in the next two weeks we might reconsider the 3.0 decision
[15:30] <LLStarks> bug 305394 = depressing read
[15:31] <asac> but i dont see that happening
[15:31] <asac> LLStarks: dont read it then ;)
[15:31] <asac> LLStarks: i will have to bug our debian fontconfig maintainer I guess
[15:31] <asac> if he doesnt know, nobody will
[15:32]  * BUGabundo1 would really like to see 3.1 as default
[15:32] <BUGabundo1> I can't use 3.0 anymore... to slow!
[15:32] <LLStarks> going through debian is going to be the death of ubuntu. people want to ship jaunty with ext4 support in key applications.
[15:32] <asac> LLStarks: our current problem is that we need to understand why we made those changes in the psat
[15:33] <LLStarks> *without
[15:33] <LLStarks> to hell with debian merges!
[15:33] <BUGabundo1> asac: so the anwser to the user is : "wait a few more days until fix is uploaded to PPA"?
[15:33] <asac> LLStarks: well. in fontconfig case its Keith Packard <keithp@debian.org>
[15:33] <asac> dont see how that can be the death ;)
[15:34] <LLStarks> better put in writing and submit it to the debian bug system.
[15:34] <LLStarks> every debian packager i've ever spoken too has been apathetic towards the issues i  report.
[15:35] <BUGabundo1> fta: so no deb yet on https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team ?
[15:35] <asac> LLStarks: well. it requires some exercise to talk to debian folks.
[15:35] <asac> you need to know the right buttons and handles ;)
[15:36] <fta> BUGabundo1: no, i'm still unhappy with the status of the package, so it's in my PPA only for now. I will do dailies soon like for mozilla
[15:36] <LLStarks> well, their bug submission process is needlessly labrynthine and commandline based. that speaks volumes about them.
[15:36] <BUGabundo1> on your ppa?
[15:36]  * BUGabundo1 checks it out
[15:37] <asac> LLStarks: it helps to not get bugged by shitloads of crap
[15:37] <BUGabundo1> asac: so the answer to the user is : "wait a few more days until fix is uploaded to PPA"?
[15:37] <asac> yes. thats better i think
[15:37] <asac> BUGabundo1: ^^
[15:37] <BUGabundo1> ok
[15:37] <LLStarks> mea culpa for distracting asac.
[15:37] <asac> there are a few things broken in 0.7 about noauth parameter ;)
[15:37] <BUGabundo1> fta: I'll need to force --i386 right?
[15:37] <asac> LLStarks: all fine :)
[15:38] <asac> just dont be pessimistic all over the place
[15:38] <asac> that wont make things better for sure
[15:38] <asac> and even feels bad for yourself and everyone around you ;)
[15:38] <BUGabundo1> asac: FYI this is on Interpid...
[15:38] <asac> BUGabundo1: yes i know ;)
[15:38] <BUGabundo1> so archive NM fails to connect with PPTP, and the PPA version needs a bump in version
[15:38] <LLStarks> its hard when you run into the stupidest bugs and have to jump through hoops to find the proper person to complain to.
[15:38] <asac> BUGabundo1: get the pppd command line he sees
[15:39] <asac> while connect attempts
[15:39] <asac> ps -eaf | grep pppd
[15:39] <asac> BUGabundo1: ^^
[15:39] <fta> BUGabundo1, i won't advertise these debs just yet, please don't.
[15:39] <asac> then you see a command line.
[15:39] <BUGabundo1> asac: just making sure... a lot of stuf and versions go under our nails... we get confused
[15:39] <LLStarks> the linux community universe is by design, very bureaucratic
[15:40] <BUGabundo1> fta I won't of course (/me looks at google spider eheh) but non the less I can test it, right?
[15:40] <fta> yes, but it's only 32bit for now.
[15:40] <fta> let me work on the ia32 thing
[15:42] <asac> LLStarks: just be nice and constructive and things will move easier in every part of life. same is even more true when working with mostly volunteers
[15:42] <asac> in FOSS
[15:42] <LLStarks> i do. but my patches always get buried in lists.
[15:42] <LLStarks> and that pisses me off royally.
[15:42] <LLStarks> so, i turn passive-aggressive.
[15:43] <asac> LLStarks: thats a sad thing then.
[15:43] <asac> LLStarks: what patches do you have that went unattended?
[15:43] <LLStarks> not really my patches.
[15:43] <LLStarks> i do a lot of advocacy for shy devs.
[15:43] <fta> LLStarks, that was my case 2 years+ ago too, i joined some teams and contributed directly, now i'm happy
[15:43] <asac> we are working on improving our sponsoring every day
[15:44] <asac> but its like keeping your room clean - if you are overloaded it happens that things stack up.
[15:44] <LLStarks> basically, if community X has a patch for problem Y but is incapable of communicating with dev team Z, i step in and connect the chain.
[15:45] <asac> LLStarks: thats great. thanks for doing that
[15:45] <LLStarks> that's how i got libass support into VLC.
[15:45] <asac> we need more folks doing just that
[15:45] <LLStarks> <________<
[15:45] <asac> but we also need more folks goig through endless list of bugs to find the gems
[15:45] <LLStarks> i know jack about coding though.
[15:46] <LLStarks> i can't say that i make up for it by being a mighty fine tester.
[15:46] <LLStarks> heck, i find bugs even when i'm not looking for them.
[15:46] <asac> you should become a bug triager then. if you can formulate stuff in a developer-understandable fashion thats a huge win
[15:47] <asac> look at manyb ugs in ubuntu, there is so much noise in there that you just work on a different bug because you dont uderstand what its about after looking a few minutes
[15:47] <LLStarks> i've thought about it. even though i've been using for a few years, i'm still quite a linux newbie.
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> LLStarks: I do the same.... im a really nice alpha/beta tester
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> but instead connecting devs to devs
[15:49] <LLStarks> then there's the issue of draconian entrance barriers *cough*amo editors*cough*
[15:49] <BUGabundo1> I make a liason between users and devs
[15:49] <asac> LLStarks: if you feel there are entrace barriers too high thats a problem
[15:49] <asac> LLStarks: which entrance did you try?
[15:50] <LLStarks> amo editor. my extension has been in review hell for months for a simple version bump.
[15:50] <LLStarks> and then my friend's extension has been trying to leave the sandbox for almost a year.
[15:50] <asac> LLStarks: yes, i think AMO has process issues. they know that and work on improving that afaik
[15:50] <asac> [reed]: ^^ ?
[15:51] <LLStarks> they are grandly understaffed but require such high demands to even become an editor.
[15:51] <asac> LLStarks: well. there is always a trade-off
[15:51] <LLStarks> obviously they need to lower their standards.
[15:51] <asac> they are overloaded, but dont want to lower the quality of reviews (if that is what editor is about)
[15:51] <LLStarks> well, my beef is how slowly they approve updates.
[15:52] <asac> LLStarks: i am not sure how the process works, but it could be redesigned to be two staged
[15:52] <asac> like "junior-reviewers" doing the first round and then the "senior-folks" working only on the already filtered/reduced list
[15:52] <LLStarks> 6 months for an approval to update your extension is just plain wrong.
[15:52] <asac> when thats done they could more easily stack up the first level and also get those to senior level after a while
[15:53] <asac> LLStarks: agreed. there are individual problems for sure, but thats not true everywhere
[15:54] <LLStarks> that is kind of reflected in my current liaison work.
[15:54] <asac> LLStarks: you should talk to dholbach and jcastro
[15:55] <asac> about your community work and ideas how to improve inter-project collaboration
[15:55] <LLStarks> i'm acting as a go-between for  interested parties and the mplayer devs
[15:55] <LLStarks> but whenever i submit patches from the shy devs, they are glossed over and ignored while other things are approved with barely a glance.
[15:57] <asac> LLStarks: right. maybe you need someone to get you better connected before being able to effectively mediate patches
[15:58] <LLStarks> i'm not mediating really. i'm just an advocate submitting patches to a dev list and trying to explain their importance.
[15:59] <asac> LLStarks: where do you submit to?
[15:59] <LLStarks> a mailing list
[16:00] <LLStarks> a highly inefficient mailing list.
[16:00] <LLStarks> sure, it's a pipermail setup. but they're very little transparency on progress.
[16:00] <asac> LLStarks: concrete examples ;)?
[16:01] <LLStarks> eh? i'm not naming names.
[16:02] <LLStarks> i'm just saying that if a patch or issue is not immediately addressed by the list subscribers, you have nag it to the top.
[16:02] <LLStarks> *have to
[16:02] <LLStarks> it's like pissing in an ocean.
[16:02] <asac> well
[16:03] <asac> i agree that its not always obvious how to get developers attention
[16:03] <asac> but its different by project
[16:05] <fta> what is the green plus sign at the bottom left of some messages in gwibber?
[16:05] <LLStarks> if you bump your patches, you come off as an ass. if you try to do 1-on-1 with specific people, you aren't transparent with the other subscribers.
[16:05] <LLStarks> it's a double-edged sword.
[16:05] <BUGabundo1> fta:  its to expand the networks
[16:06] <BUGabundo1> I got a message sent to you from multiple places
[16:06] <asac> fta: thats when you have the same message through multiple channels
[16:06] <asac> e.g. if i send to twitter and identi.ca i get that
[16:06] <BUGabundo1> yea
[16:06] <BUGabundo1> and jorge is a naughty boy
[16:06] <fta> oh, but i'm only on identi.ca
[16:06] <LLStarks> nevertheless, i enjoy doing what i can. heck, if it wasn't for linux, i would be going to law school instead of go for a masters of computer science.
[16:06] <asac> fta: so was it arnegoetje who added the hints to fontconfig?
[16:06] <BUGabundo1> he closed ALL jaiku bugs on gwibber
[16:07] <BUGabundo1> saying jaiku is DEAD
[16:07] <asac> fta: thats strange ;) ... maybe you sent two time the same message in the same minute and thats a bug?
[16:07] <BUGabundo1> fta: that is strange
[16:07] <BUGabundo1> screen shot?
[16:07] <fta> it's not my message
[16:07] <asac> fta: then maybe he did that ;)
[16:07] <BUGabundo1> asac: I've seen it merge 2 messages wrongly
[16:07] <asac> fta: check on the website if tehre are two messages from him
[16:07] <BUGabundo1> there are 2 bugs on LP for that
[16:07] <asac> BUGabundo1: ah ok. could be that then
[16:08]  * BUGabundo1 checks fta profile
[16:08] <asac> fta: ? at lest the hinting medium patch was added by him
[16:08] <BUGabundo1> "effiejayx"
[16:08] <fta> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/Gwibber+plus.png
[16:08] <BUGabundo1> there are two DUPELICATED messages from this guy
[16:08] <BUGabundo1> maybe gwibber out smarted it self and merged them
[16:09] <BUGabundo1> first time is see it doing so...
[16:09] <BUGabundo1> lol
[16:09] <BUGabundo1> but good non the less
[16:13] <fta> asac, no idea about fontconfig, i've spent enough time on this already :P
[16:15] <fta> asac, http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/41e9154311779e1a
[16:19] <asac> fta: ok. i will try something for fontconfig
[16:19] <asac> lets see what happens here
[16:19] <asac> how can i reproduce the issue? ffox 3.1 -> bad fonts?
[16:19] <asac> fonts look the same on 3.2 for me
[16:19] <asac> so using that
[16:23] <fta> all the details are in the mozilla bug
[17:36] <asac> fta: try the mt2 fontconfig build from the mt ppa
[17:36] <asac> fta: not sure when it finishes ;)
[17:36] <asac> since mt1 is still building
[17:36] <asac> fta: can you plesae run:
[17:37] <asac> dpkg --query fontconfig-config | pastebinit -i - ;)
[17:37] <asac> err i mean --status ;)
[17:37] <BUGabundo> dpkg: unknown option --query
[17:37] <asac> BUGabundo: read last line ;)
[17:37] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/121500/
[17:37] <BUGabundo> you are too fast 4me
[17:38] <asac> i cannot really say, but for me everything seems much faster after i did this fontconfig mt2 ;)
[17:39] <asac> BUGabundo: that looks quite ok. when did you install that system?
[17:39] <BUGabundo> a few days after ibex come out
[17:39] <asac> i mean not ok wrt what my package fixes.
[17:39] <asac> BUGabundo: ok thats good
[17:39] <asac> at elast you dont have a bunch of obsolete files lying around
[17:39] <BUGabundo> and then distupdate to jaunty when archives were open
[17:39] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/121496/
[17:39] <asac> thats what i had
[17:39] <asac> thats why i wondered if you had obsolete too
[17:39] <BUGabundo> I try to keep my system clean
[17:40] <BUGabundo> 10GiBs / makes me do it
[17:40] <asac> my system dates back to edgy i think
[17:50] <BUGabundo> I don't know how you guys manage that!
[17:51] <asac> BUGabundo: heh
[17:51] <asac> BUGabundo: just think twice before installing something
[17:52] <asac> and remember to uninstall when you see that it has no sense what you wanted to try
[17:52] <asac> autoremove is your friend too
[17:52] <asac> sudo apt-get autoremove
[17:52] <BUGabundo> asac: I never think twice while testing
[17:52] <BUGabundo> lol
[17:52] <asac> see ... there we found the culprid.
[17:52] <asac> see ... there we found the culprit
[17:53] <asac> at least we you now know how to fix it ;)
[17:53] <asac> fta: i really think its good now. at least it honours all gnome settings ;)
[17:53] <asac> fta: if there are regressions with non-gnome apps with this update let me know
[17:58] <asac> fta: i think i regressed some default font though ... so instead of Bitstream it should be Dejavu ... i just dropped the patch ;)
[18:13]  * asac feels blind wrt fonts and their appearence
[18:13]  * asac always found that best shapes is the best on his LCD ;)
[19:05] <fta> back
[19:05] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/121527/
[19:31] <fta> asac, oh, a bunch of obsolete files, so it's a packaging mistake and it's not visible on fresh installs
[19:52] <asac> fta: yeah. please remove them and test with the mt packages
[19:52] <asac> fta: seems you have the same files as i do
[19:52] <asac> fta: did you install edgy?
[19:52] <asac> or even dapper?
[19:53] <asac> (ihad pastes from feisty and hardy ... those were just the conf.avail ones)
[19:54] <[reed]> asac: ah, he's gone
[19:54] <[reed]> yeah, AMO team is working on improving that
[19:54] <[reed]> I can poke people if needed
[19:56] <asac> bug 332992
[19:56] <asac> [reed]: not needed. just wanted you input as he claimed amo as an example where contributing is blocked by unresponsive devs
[19:56] <asac> for outsiders
[19:56] <[reed]> s/devs/editors/
[19:56] <[reed]> :)
[19:56] <[reed]> completely different group
[19:56] <asac> yeah
[19:57] <asac> but this was part of a broader complain that those folks having power and knowledge to apply changes/fixes/review usually dont look at outsiders
[19:57] <asac> while giving folks with credits a higher prio
[19:57] <asac> (which is normal imo)
[19:57] <[reed]> yeah
[19:58] <asac> of course could be improved. in the end i think he had a few unhappy experiences because he didnt know the right buttons/lists
[19:58] <asac> and hence thinks that we dont care for outsiders
[20:14] <emgent> asac: i have some question about firefox in hardy/intrepid about branding, have you little bit time ?
[20:14] <emgent> s/question/questions/
[21:50] <asac> emgent: ?
[21:55] <fta> asac, cdbs now runs lintian if it's available
[21:57] <asac> fta: hmm. i use debuild which runs it anyway
[22:08] <fta> i wonder if i should bump gwibber once again
[22:08] <fta> ubuntu3 ?
[22:08] <BUGabundo> why?
[22:09] <fta> because it has been rejected once again (twice)
[22:09] <fta> arch all vs any
[22:09] <BUGabundo> ah
[22:10] <fta> i fixed the python 2.6 bug btw, but then they fixed python so the fix is no longer needed
[22:10] <BUGabundo> ehe
[22:10] <BUGabundo> I saw
[22:10] <BUGabundo> "they"= doko
[22:10] <fta> yes
[22:11] <fta> asac, what do you think?
[22:11] <BUGabundo> that what happens when one reads all apt-changes
[22:12] <fta> asac, ubuntu1 rejected twice, ubuntu2 still in the queue: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=gwibber  should i name the fix ubuntu3 or 2 or 1?
[22:12] <fta> maybe not 1 as 2 is still there
[22:24] <asac> fta: ask seb
[22:25] <asac> thought it didnt work with all
[22:25] <asac> but maybe i mixed that up when looking
[22:25] <asac> makes no sense to have it any though
[22:30] <fta> seb only made the 1st review
[22:30] <fta> well, i'll keep it open for now
[22:53] <dtchen> bumping the version is always sane