[00:36] <[reed]> asac: "bloody dailies" hehe [00:37] <[reed]> indeed [00:40] ? [00:41] lol [00:43] <[reed]> [06:44:05AM] but we also want folks like [reed] that like to run the bloody dailies ... we want to help discover and track down regression for instance [00:43] that would be nice indeed. [10:11] Hi! [14:16] i really hate today [15:02] we really need to shut liferea up. it tells you its updating feeds. if you have alot (like me) it keeps asking i had over 20 of them cleared them and the panel(task panel) was filled up and still coming [15:04] ?? i have 50+ feeds in liferea, it's not asking me anything [15:08] fta: it tells me that it is updating feed would i like to view it continue and so on there are maybe 5 choices [15:09] eh? is that a new option? could you screenshot it? [15:09] there is an option it looks like [15:10] yes new option check if you have the first choice marked in prefferences>GUI [15:10] i cant show it since they are all updated [15:11] im gonna try again [15:12] ok let me find a place to paste it to [15:12] post it to [15:16] fta: here is some of them i kills liferea right after screenshot http://www.flickr.com/photos/26378196@N05/3300572344/ [15:19] 1.4.23-0ubuntu2 is he version [15:19] just uncheck the pref, it's unchecked here, i don't see that [15:19] ok i wasnt sure if thast was it or not [15:20] would be nice if it was just one popup [15:22] file a wish bug :) [15:23] fta: any chances to get v8 on amd64 ;)? [15:23] v8? [15:23] asac, with ia32 libs, yes [15:23] native, no [15:24] fta: yes, but can we properly build with ia32-libs? [15:24] yes [15:24] what's v8? [15:24] fta: what do i need? ia32-libs-dev? [15:24] BUGabundo1, the javascript engine used by chrome/chromium [15:24] ahh I thought so [15:24] if you guys build it, let me know [15:25] I would like to test chromium on Ubuntu 64 bits [15:25] BUGabundo1: look in ~chromium team ppa [15:25] chromium-team [15:25] hmm [15:25] there is no PPA :) [15:25] so i guess its fta ppa [15:25] asac, it's tricky to do because between hardy, intrepid and jaunty, the content of the ia32 packages changed [15:26] asac: I have another user on our locoteam that is aving trouble getting pptp vpn working with PPAs NM [15:26] the problem is libnss [15:26] fta: yeah. i am only interested in jaunty++ [15:26] I'll ask him to open a bug for it (ibex)... what do you need for debug? [15:26] hey guys. [15:26] how's your sunday so far? [15:26] BUGabundo1: do i already ship latest crack for ibex? or still 0.7 final? [15:27] LLStarks: i tried a computer ban, but failed miserably ;) [15:27] eh? [15:27] asac, now that my i386 build is back on track, i'll see what i can do for amd64 [15:27] then i tried IRC ban and found that i needed to ask fta about something ;) [15:27] no idea asac [15:27] I'm on jaunty [15:27] are you insinuating something? [15:27] BUGabundo1: let me check [15:27] Feb 22 12:12:31 hjrocha-laptop pppd[26722]: pppd 2.4.5 started by root, uid [15:27] or have i not gotten enough sleep? [15:27] humm [15:28] LLStarks: no. just chatting unimportant things ;) ... feel free to ignore me [15:28] pppd 245 ? that one is recent [15:28] I remember it was the one you forgot to update until last week [15:28] fontconfig still giving you the blues? [15:28] BUGabundo1: so i didnt update NM for ibex yet [15:28] I guess that could be the reason [15:28] BUGabundo1: better wait till final stuff is there [15:28] why his VPN is falingin [15:28] err .7.1 i mean [15:29] LLStarks: yes. do you know something about fontconfig? [15:29] asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/121444/ [15:29] nope. [15:29] and neither do the ubuntu devs. [15:29] here is what he emailed me [15:29] <____< [15:29] is 3.1 going to be default in jaunty or karmic? [15:30] LLStarks: right, we are still hoping for wisdom or bravery [15:30] LLStarks: karmic [15:30] so we still have some time left ;) [15:30] well. if ffox suddenly was final in the next two weeks we might reconsider the 3.0 decision [15:30] bug 305394 = depressing read [15:30] Launchpad bug 305394 in fontconfig "No subpixel smoothing" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305394 [15:31] but i dont see that happening [15:31] LLStarks: dont read it then ;) [15:31] LLStarks: i will have to bug our debian fontconfig maintainer I guess [15:31] if he doesnt know, nobody will [15:32] * BUGabundo1 would really like to see 3.1 as default [15:32] I can't use 3.0 anymore... to slow! [15:32] going through debian is going to be the death of ubuntu. people want to ship jaunty with ext4 support in key applications. [15:32] LLStarks: our current problem is that we need to understand why we made those changes in the psat [15:33] *without [15:33] to hell with debian merges! [15:33] asac: so the anwser to the user is : "wait a few more days until fix is uploaded to PPA"? [15:33] LLStarks: well. in fontconfig case its Keith Packard [15:33] dont see how that can be the death ;) [15:34] better put in writing and submit it to the debian bug system. [15:34] every debian packager i've ever spoken too has been apathetic towards the issues i report. [15:35] fta: so no deb yet on https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team ? [15:35] LLStarks: well. it requires some exercise to talk to debian folks. [15:35] you need to know the right buttons and handles ;) [15:36] BUGabundo1: no, i'm still unhappy with the status of the package, so it's in my PPA only for now. I will do dailies soon like for mozilla [15:36] well, their bug submission process is needlessly labrynthine and commandline based. that speaks volumes about them. [15:36] on your ppa? [15:36] * BUGabundo1 checks it out [15:37] LLStarks: it helps to not get bugged by shitloads of crap [15:37] asac: so the answer to the user is : "wait a few more days until fix is uploaded to PPA"? [15:37] yes. thats better i think [15:37] BUGabundo1: ^^ [15:37] ok [15:37] mea culpa for distracting asac. [15:37] there are a few things broken in 0.7 about noauth parameter ;) [15:37] fta: I'll need to force --i386 right? [15:37] LLStarks: all fine :) [15:38] just dont be pessimistic all over the place [15:38] that wont make things better for sure [15:38] and even feels bad for yourself and everyone around you ;) [15:38] asac: FYI this is on Interpid... [15:38] BUGabundo1: yes i know ;) [15:38] so archive NM fails to connect with PPTP, and the PPA version needs a bump in version [15:38] its hard when you run into the stupidest bugs and have to jump through hoops to find the proper person to complain to. [15:38] BUGabundo1: get the pppd command line he sees [15:39] while connect attempts [15:39] ps -eaf | grep pppd [15:39] BUGabundo1: ^^ [15:39] BUGabundo1, i won't advertise these debs just yet, please don't. [15:39] then you see a command line. [15:39] asac: just making sure... a lot of stuf and versions go under our nails... we get confused [15:39] the linux community universe is by design, very bureaucratic [15:40] fta I won't of course (/me looks at google spider eheh) but non the less I can test it, right? [15:40] yes, but it's only 32bit for now. [15:40] let me work on the ia32 thing [15:42] LLStarks: just be nice and constructive and things will move easier in every part of life. same is even more true when working with mostly volunteers [15:42] in FOSS [15:42] i do. but my patches always get buried in lists. [15:42] and that pisses me off royally. [15:42] so, i turn passive-aggressive. [15:43] LLStarks: thats a sad thing then. [15:43] LLStarks: what patches do you have that went unattended? [15:43] not really my patches. [15:43] i do a lot of advocacy for shy devs. [15:43] LLStarks, that was my case 2 years+ ago too, i joined some teams and contributed directly, now i'm happy [15:43] we are working on improving our sponsoring every day [15:44] but its like keeping your room clean - if you are overloaded it happens that things stack up. [15:44] basically, if community X has a patch for problem Y but is incapable of communicating with dev team Z, i step in and connect the chain. [15:45] LLStarks: thats great. thanks for doing that [15:45] that's how i got libass support into VLC. [15:45] we need more folks doing just that [15:45] <________< [15:45] but we also need more folks goig through endless list of bugs to find the gems [15:45] i know jack about coding though. [15:46] i can't say that i make up for it by being a mighty fine tester. [15:46] heck, i find bugs even when i'm not looking for them. [15:46] you should become a bug triager then. if you can formulate stuff in a developer-understandable fashion thats a huge win [15:47] look at manyb ugs in ubuntu, there is so much noise in there that you just work on a different bug because you dont uderstand what its about after looking a few minutes [15:47] i've thought about it. even though i've been using for a few years, i'm still quite a linux newbie. [15:49] LLStarks: I do the same.... im a really nice alpha/beta tester [15:49] but instead connecting devs to devs [15:49] then there's the issue of draconian entrance barriers *cough*amo editors*cough* [15:49] I make a liason between users and devs [15:49] LLStarks: if you feel there are entrace barriers too high thats a problem [15:49] LLStarks: which entrance did you try? [15:50] amo editor. my extension has been in review hell for months for a simple version bump. [15:50] and then my friend's extension has been trying to leave the sandbox for almost a year. [15:50] LLStarks: yes, i think AMO has process issues. they know that and work on improving that afaik [15:50] [reed]: ^^ ? [15:51] they are grandly understaffed but require such high demands to even become an editor. [15:51] LLStarks: well. there is always a trade-off [15:51] obviously they need to lower their standards. [15:51] they are overloaded, but dont want to lower the quality of reviews (if that is what editor is about) [15:51] well, my beef is how slowly they approve updates. [15:52] LLStarks: i am not sure how the process works, but it could be redesigned to be two staged [15:52] like "junior-reviewers" doing the first round and then the "senior-folks" working only on the already filtered/reduced list [15:52] 6 months for an approval to update your extension is just plain wrong. [15:52] when thats done they could more easily stack up the first level and also get those to senior level after a while [15:53] LLStarks: agreed. there are individual problems for sure, but thats not true everywhere [15:54] that is kind of reflected in my current liaison work. [15:54] LLStarks: you should talk to dholbach and jcastro [15:55] about your community work and ideas how to improve inter-project collaboration [15:55] i'm acting as a go-between for interested parties and the mplayer devs [15:55] but whenever i submit patches from the shy devs, they are glossed over and ignored while other things are approved with barely a glance. [15:57] LLStarks: right. maybe you need someone to get you better connected before being able to effectively mediate patches [15:58] i'm not mediating really. i'm just an advocate submitting patches to a dev list and trying to explain their importance. [15:59] LLStarks: where do you submit to? [15:59] a mailing list [16:00] a highly inefficient mailing list. [16:00] sure, it's a pipermail setup. but they're very little transparency on progress. [16:00] LLStarks: concrete examples ;)? [16:01] eh? i'm not naming names. [16:02] i'm just saying that if a patch or issue is not immediately addressed by the list subscribers, you have nag it to the top. [16:02] *have to [16:02] it's like pissing in an ocean. [16:02] well [16:03] i agree that its not always obvious how to get developers attention [16:03] but its different by project [16:05] what is the green plus sign at the bottom left of some messages in gwibber? [16:05] if you bump your patches, you come off as an ass. if you try to do 1-on-1 with specific people, you aren't transparent with the other subscribers. [16:05] it's a double-edged sword. [16:05] fta: its to expand the networks [16:06] I got a message sent to you from multiple places [16:06] fta: thats when you have the same message through multiple channels [16:06] e.g. if i send to twitter and identi.ca i get that [16:06] yea [16:06] and jorge is a naughty boy [16:06] oh, but i'm only on identi.ca [16:06] nevertheless, i enjoy doing what i can. heck, if it wasn't for linux, i would be going to law school instead of go for a masters of computer science. [16:06] fta: so was it arnegoetje who added the hints to fontconfig? [16:06] he closed ALL jaiku bugs on gwibber [16:07] saying jaiku is DEAD [16:07] fta: thats strange ;) ... maybe you sent two time the same message in the same minute and thats a bug? [16:07] fta: that is strange [16:07] screen shot? [16:07] it's not my message [16:07] fta: then maybe he did that ;) [16:07] asac: I've seen it merge 2 messages wrongly [16:07] fta: check on the website if tehre are two messages from him [16:07] there are 2 bugs on LP for that [16:07] BUGabundo1: ah ok. could be that then [16:08] * BUGabundo1 checks fta profile [16:08] fta: ? at lest the hinting medium patch was added by him [16:08] "effiejayx" [16:08] http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/Gwibber+plus.png [16:08] there are two DUPELICATED messages from this guy [16:08] maybe gwibber out smarted it self and merged them [16:09] first time is see it doing so... [16:09] lol [16:09] but good non the less [16:13] asac, no idea about fontconfig, i've spent enough time on this already :P [16:15] asac, http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/41e9154311779e1a [16:19] fta: ok. i will try something for fontconfig [16:19] lets see what happens here [16:19] how can i reproduce the issue? ffox 3.1 -> bad fonts? [16:19] fonts look the same on 3.2 for me [16:19] so using that [16:23] all the details are in the mozilla bug [17:36] fta: try the mt2 fontconfig build from the mt ppa [17:36] fta: not sure when it finishes ;) [17:36] since mt1 is still building [17:36] fta: can you plesae run: [17:37] dpkg --query fontconfig-config | pastebinit -i - ;) [17:37] err i mean --status ;) [17:37] dpkg: unknown option --query [17:37] BUGabundo: read last line ;) [17:37] http://paste.ubuntu.com/121500/ [17:37] you are too fast 4me [17:38] i cannot really say, but for me everything seems much faster after i did this fontconfig mt2 ;) [17:39] BUGabundo: that looks quite ok. when did you install that system? [17:39] a few days after ibex come out [17:39] i mean not ok wrt what my package fixes. [17:39] BUGabundo: ok thats good [17:39] at elast you dont have a bunch of obsolete files lying around [17:39] and then distupdate to jaunty when archives were open [17:39] http://paste.ubuntu.com/121496/ [17:39] thats what i had [17:39] thats why i wondered if you had obsolete too [17:39] I try to keep my system clean [17:40] 10GiBs / makes me do it [17:40] my system dates back to edgy i think [17:50] I don't know how you guys manage that! [17:51] BUGabundo: heh [17:51] BUGabundo: just think twice before installing something [17:52] and remember to uninstall when you see that it has no sense what you wanted to try [17:52] autoremove is your friend too [17:52] sudo apt-get autoremove [17:52] asac: I never think twice while testing [17:52] lol [17:52] see ... there we found the culprid. [17:52] see ... there we found the culprit [17:53] at least we you now know how to fix it ;) [17:53] fta: i really think its good now. at least it honours all gnome settings ;) [17:53] fta: if there are regressions with non-gnome apps with this update let me know [17:58] fta: i think i regressed some default font though ... so instead of Bitstream it should be Dejavu ... i just dropped the patch ;) [18:13] * asac feels blind wrt fonts and their appearence [18:13] * asac always found that best shapes is the best on his LCD ;) [19:05] back [19:05] asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/121527/ [19:31] asac, oh, a bunch of obsolete files, so it's a packaging mistake and it's not visible on fresh installs [19:52] fta: yeah. please remove them and test with the mt packages [19:52] fta: seems you have the same files as i do [19:52] fta: did you install edgy? [19:52] or even dapper? [19:53] (ihad pastes from feisty and hardy ... those were just the conf.avail ones) [19:54] <[reed]> asac: ah, he's gone [19:54] <[reed]> yeah, AMO team is working on improving that [19:54] <[reed]> I can poke people if needed [19:56] bug 332992 [19:56] Launchpad bug 332992 in fontconfig "fontconfig-config installs have accumulated obsolete config files that can lead to unpredictable results" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332992 [19:56] [reed]: not needed. just wanted you input as he claimed amo as an example where contributing is blocked by unresponsive devs [19:56] for outsiders [19:56] <[reed]> s/devs/editors/ [19:56] <[reed]> :) [19:56] <[reed]> completely different group [19:56] yeah [19:57] but this was part of a broader complain that those folks having power and knowledge to apply changes/fixes/review usually dont look at outsiders [19:57] while giving folks with credits a higher prio [19:57] (which is normal imo) [19:57] <[reed]> yeah [19:58] of course could be improved. in the end i think he had a few unhappy experiences because he didnt know the right buttons/lists [19:58] and hence thinks that we dont care for outsiders [20:14] asac: i have some question about firefox in hardy/intrepid about branding, have you little bit time ? [20:14] s/question/questions/ === asac_ is now known as asac [21:50] emgent: ? [21:55] asac, cdbs now runs lintian if it's available [21:57] fta: hmm. i use debuild which runs it anyway [22:08] i wonder if i should bump gwibber once again [22:08] ubuntu3 ? [22:08] why? [22:09] because it has been rejected once again (twice) [22:09] arch all vs any [22:09] ah [22:10] i fixed the python 2.6 bug btw, but then they fixed python so the fix is no longer needed [22:10] ehe [22:10] I saw [22:10] "they"= doko [22:10] yes [22:11] asac, what do you think? [22:11] that what happens when one reads all apt-changes [22:12] asac, ubuntu1 rejected twice, ubuntu2 still in the queue: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=gwibber should i name the fix ubuntu3 or 2 or 1? [22:12] maybe not 1 as 2 is still there [22:24] fta: ask seb [22:25] thought it didnt work with all [22:25] but maybe i mixed that up when looking [22:25] makes no sense to have it any though [22:30] seb only made the 1st review [22:30] well, i'll keep it open for now [22:53] bumping the version is always sane