[04:01] <LaserJock> sbalneav: hi
[04:03] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey!!!
[04:03] <sbalneav> How's it going?
[04:05] <LaserJock> sbalneav: going alright
[04:05] <LaserJock> sbalneav: how are you?
[04:05] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I heard from #ltsp that you were neck deep in work
[04:06] <sbalneav> yeah
[04:06] <sbalneav> Still working on and off on the sabayon though
[04:06] <LaserJock> yeah? awesome
[04:07] <LaserJock> I've been tackling moodle
[04:07] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you get anything usable out of sabayon yet?
[04:08] <sbalneav> Well, I think you nailed it right on the head.  They've taken short cuts by assuming certain "seed" values for panels, apps, etc.
[04:09] <sbalneav> So, what I've been doing, in between getting a recalcitrant accounting system up and going...
[04:09] <sbalneav> is figuring out the "best" way to generalize how to search the panel gconf namespace.
[04:10] <sbalneav> This is the first night I've had a break for two weeks :)
[04:10] <sbalneav> how are you making out?
[04:10] <LaserJock> well
[04:10] <LaserJock> crazy times
[04:10] <LaserJock> last week my wife was gone and I had to speak at a funeral
[04:11] <LaserJock> Feature Freeze hit and there's still quite a bit to do in Edubuntu land
[04:11] <sbalneav> But we've still got time for bugs?
[04:12] <sbalneav> I was hoping to take Friday off to spend on it.
[04:12] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:12] <LaserJock> and we've got some room to play with for important stuff
[04:12] <LaserJock> like moodle I'm trying to get for Alpha 5 on Thursday
[04:13] <LaserJock> we've got lots and lots of bugs we can look at
[04:13] <LaserJock> then the usual doc/artwork sprint
[04:14] <sbalneav> ok
[04:14] <jsgotangco> hey kids
[04:14] <sbalneav> Good, I'll book off firday then
[04:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:14] <sbalneav> Hey! How's it going?
[04:14] <LaserJock> RichEd has been a bit MIA so I've been trying to make sure the stuff he was going to push is covered
[04:14] <LaserJock> brb
[04:15] <jsgotangco> sbalneav: busy is good
[04:24] <LaserJock> ok, back
[04:24] <LaserJock> sbalneav: so this Friday you're gonna work on bugs?
[07:11] <land> where am i?
[11:34] <pem725> anyone know how to get 1440x900 resolution with the intel 945G chipset?
[11:34] <pem725> specifically, do I use the 915resolution program via an xterm or via a local root term Ctl+Alt+F1?
[11:37] <pem725> well I will give it a shot both ways...
[18:42] <LaserJock> Lns: I've got a question for you
[18:43] <LaserJock> I've been thinking about these silly Universe metapackages again
[18:43] <LaserJock> for tertiary and even perhaps for secondary education we'll likely want to split out subjects
[18:44] <LaserJock> so you could have like ubuntu-edu-tertiary-extras-physics or something
[18:44] <LaserJock> which seems extrordinarily long
[18:45] <Lns> LaserJock: hrm
[18:46] <Lns> LaserJock: Is there a possibility that some of these apps would bleed over into other situations where it wouldn't be so strictly tied to, say, "tertiary" ?
[18:46] <Lns> We don't want to get too specific imho, otherwise people wont' install and use apps even if it could be of use
[18:47] <Lns> you know what i mean?
[18:53] <LaserJock> Lns: secondary and tertiary will often overlap
[18:53] <Lns> ok
[18:53] <Lns> should we consider putting them together?
[18:54] <LaserJock> well, the point was that a secondary teacher is looking for secondary
[18:54] <LaserJock> and they are going to be slightly different
[18:55] <LaserJock> basically, metapackages suck for this kind of control
[18:56] <Lns> LaserJock: hrm
[18:57] <Lns> it seems as though maybe we're taking too much decision away from the individual school as to which apps they will have
[18:57] <Lns> is there any other way to have a collection of apps without mandating that certain ones belong in a certain metapackage and not another as well? Or can you do that?
[18:57] <LaserJock> well, it's not about taking decision away
[18:58] <LaserJock> it's more about how to get apps to people
[18:58] <Lns> LaserJock: right
[18:58] <LaserJock> especially in secondar and tertiary there are hundreds and hundreds of apps
[18:58] <LaserJock> so the goal would be to have a set of "install this and you should be pretty set"
[18:59] <LaserJock> packages can belong to any number of metapackages
[18:59] <Lns> LaserJock: oh ok cool
[18:59] <Lns> so that makes it much more flexible
[18:59] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:59] <Lns> hmmmm
[18:59] <LaserJock> the problem is if you select the metapackage you get everything in that metapackage
[19:00] <LaserJock> when you get to secondary and tertiary education that's a whole lot of stuff that you may or may not need
[19:00] <Lns> yeah
[19:00] <Lns> i think splitting the subjects would be a good thing(tm)
[19:01] <LaserJock> however, that's a lot of maintanence and packages for people to look at
[19:02] <Lns> LaserJock: on the other hand, maybe people (teachers?) who specialize in certain subjects would be better taking care of their subject's metapkgs
[19:03] <Lns> and then maybe a few people that overlook the groups overall
[19:03] <LaserJock> well, that would help but it's still an issue
[19:04] <Lns> sure but it'd be an issue either way wouldn't it?
[19:04] <LaserJock> if we even have 5 subjects that puts the number of Edubuntu metapackages at 22
[19:04] <Lns> oh
[19:05] <LaserJock> most distros do *maybe* 5
[19:05] <Lns> sounds like we're going about this the wrong way
[19:06] <LaserJock> well, that's what I'm wondering
[19:07] <Lns> especially if educational types aren't familiar with stuff like this...i'm almost thinking some web-based app description/howto install them thingie
[19:07] <Lns> i keep wanting to say we should make videos on how to do these kinds of things and put them up on YT or something
[19:08] <LaserJock> yeah, but you don't want to have that for like 20-30 packages
[19:08] <Lns> It's such a good resource and it makes HOWTOs very easy to show with screencasts, etc
[19:08] <Lns> no, not each one
[19:08] <Lns> a single/few videos on how to do things in general like installing the edubuntu apps
[19:08] <Lns> and maybe quick vids on how to use each one
[19:09] <Lns> it would be a lot of work initially but once you get it out there it's really just there for good
[19:09] <LaserJock> right, but *how* do you install the edubuntu apps is the problem
[19:10] <Lns> well, i'd think a simple howto/vid/whatever on add/remove would be sufficient, wouldn't you? It doesn't get a whole lot easier than that
[19:10] <Lns> even if we did away with metapackages
[19:10] <Lns> of course that's an extreme
[19:11] <LaserJock> ok, but like I said, there are hundreds of apps
[19:11] <LaserJock> are we expecting teachers to pick through them all to figure out what they need?
[19:11] <Lns> i think we need to talk to some educational types about what they think would be most sane way to chunk them together
[19:12] <Lns> LaserJock: I have a feeling that a lot of teachers would want to pick single apps that they had heard about, and not see a bunch of others install and clutter up their systems..
[19:12] <Lns> i'm sure that's not universal, but still
[19:12] <Lns> of course you can do that i'm sure
[19:12] <LaserJock> well, they don't want clutter, for sure
[19:12] <Lns> without metapkgs
[19:13] <Lns> we just need to establish the hierarchy
[19:13] <LaserJock> but if you're teaching chemistry I'm sure you want to be able to say "I want secondary Chemistry apps, go!"
[19:13] <LaserJock> not "ok, I guess I need to find a periodic table, hmm there are 3 of those. Now I need a 2D editor, gosh there are 5 of those. ..."
[19:14] <Lns> yeah
[19:15] <Lns> well
[19:15] <LaserJock> that's sort of the issue I'd like to be able to solve
[19:15] <LaserJock> but without creating a large headache for ourselves
[19:15] <Lns> i think the most logical way to do it would be to separate firstly by grade (primary/secondary/etc)
[19:15] <LaserJock> so we're doing that for Jaunty
[19:15] <Lns> of course that's just how schools are here in cali/US mostly. Not many K-12 schools
[19:16] <LaserJock> preschool, primary, secondary, tertiary
[19:16] <Lns> ok
[19:16] <Lns> and THEN by subject probably
[19:16] <LaserJock> that's where it gets tricky
[19:16] <Lns> ubuntuedu-primary-mathematics
[19:17] <LaserJock> right, but we've got Main/Universe split in there
[19:17] <LaserJock> so we end up with ubuntu-edu-primary-extras-mathematics
[19:19] <Lns> wow..yeah i see the predicement
[19:20] <LaserJock> Main/Universe split will eventually go away
[19:20] <Lns> when?
[19:20] <LaserJock> don't know yet
[19:20] <LaserJock> next release or two
[19:20] <LaserJock> but I think the concept of -extras is a good one
[19:20] <highvoltage> hmm
[19:20] <LaserJock> there's a lot of educational software out there
[19:21] <LaserJock> but I doubt we're going to get the kind of developer community that can really support it all
[19:21] <LaserJock> so it makes sense to have a "we can't support this fully but we think it's useful for you and want to make it easy to get"
[19:22] <LaserJock> or should I just ditch the Universe stuff for Jaunty?
[19:22] <LaserJock> I've got a seed branch ready to go
[19:22] <LaserJock> but still don't have package lists to put in them
[19:23] <LaserJock> nor has anybody reviewed the ubuntu-edu-* ones in Main
[19:23] <highvoltage> that's the kind of thing that is nice to workshop face to face
[19:25] <Lns> obviously we should make sure the Main apps are completely bulletproof and easy to install/use/etc
[19:25] <Lns> first
[19:25] <Lns> since they'll get the most exposure
[19:27] <LaserJock> well, yeah, that'd be nice
[19:27] <LaserJock> but there's an element of timing
[19:27] <LaserJock> for a new package I need to really hurry since we're already past Feature Freeze
[19:28] <LaserJock> finalizing the package lists has until around Beta
[19:28] <LaserJock> but we've also got docs and artwork to take care of
[19:28] <LaserJock> moodle and sabayon are still unusable
[19:29] <LaserJock> I'm trying to get it so you can install Edubuntu via the DVD but that's having some problems
[19:29] <LaserJock> and I'm  just about out of steam
[19:30] <Lns> Well  we don't want to have stuff in there that we've only tested a bit.. maybe it'd be better to push for a later date for some of this stuff
[19:32] <LaserJock> right now not much of anything has been tested on Jaunty
[20:04]  * Lns doesn't like that symlinks can't become immutable :(
[20:55] <Approximated> Hello
[20:55] <Approximated> Is there anybody who can help me?
[20:58] <alkisg> !ask
[20:58] <Approximated> I have installet ISO LINUX
[20:59] <Approximated> but when starts Linux it require username and password
[20:59] <Approximated> which is the username and password
[20:59] <Approximated> Linux for Macedonia
[20:59] <Approximated> Edubuntu Haier
[21:13] <Lns> Approximated: didn't you set up a user acct. during install?
[21:17] <Approximated> Now
[21:17] <Approximated> I didn't set it
[21:17] <Approximated> No*
[21:17] <Approximated> I didn't see any field for username and password
[22:13] <dewmon689> hi
[22:13] <Lns> hi dewmon689
[22:15] <dewmon689> lns, do you use edubuntu alot?
[22:15] <Lns> dewmon689: what aspect of edubuntu?
[22:16] <dewmon689> well I'm looking for people who use it as a school soloution, specificly ltsp
[22:16] <Lns> dewmon689: edubuntu != ltsp anymore, LTSP is integrated with the core OS
[22:16] <Lns> Edubuntu is now a collection of educational applications, themes, artwork, etc
[22:17] <dewmon689> where do you think I could best recieve support fot the ltsp side of it?  the ubuntu channle is overflowing with people
[22:18] <Lns> dewmon689: #ltsp
[22:19] <dewmon689> thank you
[22:22] <dewmon689> damn, no one is saying anything in there
[22:23] <alkisg> dewmon689: just ask your question, if people can help you, they probably will...