[00:02] jdong_: With LP project<->team affiliations which are coming soon, comments by real people (ie. people connected to the project somehow) will be able to be shown as more important. [00:10] could somebody explain the reasoning why debtags and ept-cache are in the ubuntu repository but not integrated in ubuntu at all? [00:12] perhaps nobody has had time/interest to integrate it yet [00:12] yeah, i started but i got bored [00:12] i might write it in intercal [00:12] if 1 person would care to promote it in a suitable way there might be enough peope on #ubuntu-motu who contribute? [00:13] ideas are cheap. developers less so [00:14] enrico did all the word it needs from the developer side [00:14] i.e. feel free to make proposals, e.g. use brainstorm, but don't anticipate a flood of people to implement your ideas before anything else [00:15] before i waste my time the next weeks i am asking for the reasons why its potential use ignored by the core developers [00:15] use/is [00:15] I didn't even know ept-cache existed [00:15] I know about debtags but I'm not sure if we've got anything that would really make use of them [00:16] its one of the smartest ideas on how to handle thousands of package descriptions in such a way that users find what they are looking for - since binary packages were invented [00:17] because traditional categories for packages are fine for Ubuntu's CD 1 [00:17] but not for 20,000 packages [00:17] I think most people see the value in debtags (or at least the concept) [00:18] why the promotion without the debian community did not work is kind of logical. anything new is a danger to conservative people. but i dont get why the concept is completely ignored by ubuntu [00:18] without/within [00:19] I don't think it's completely ignored [00:19] just that nobody's had time to do anything interesting with it; as you say, it isn't really needed by the default installation so hasn't reached top-priority kind of status [00:19] I think we'd welcome somebody working on it properly [00:19] there's been no explicit "debtags sucks, let's ignore it" kind of decision AFAIK [00:19] Keybuk: will the new udev also declare a Breaks: on the old lvm2 (eventually)? [00:19] i am not even close to become an ubuntu developer. so its not the right task for me [00:20] Keybuk: also, are the changes to libs-cleanup.patch and drop-realtime.patch in lvm2 intentional? [00:20] it requires a person with enough influence to poke the right people so the necessary promotion starts. the volunteers who do the work will come to you automatically [00:20] I don't think it works like that at all [00:21] lots of things are bottom-up not top-down, in my experience [00:21] and volunteers CERTAINLY do not automatically materialise no matter what you do [00:21] slangasek: I had to refresh them, quilt told me to otherwise it would kill kittens [00:21] promotion is the key [00:22] Keybuk: ah; the refreshed patches look rather... different from the previous revision [00:22] Breaks - yes, it should probably have some of those [00:22] slangasek: really? I didn't look at them [00:22] anyone can do promotion [00:22] Keybuk: both patches now patch less than they did before :) [00:22] not sure why that would've happened with a refresh [00:22] slangasek: quilt is evil [00:22] although I would suggest a more constructive attitude than "before i waste my time the next weeks i am asking for the reasons why its potential use ignored by the core developers" / "but i dont get why the concept is completely ignored by ubuntu" [00:22] not IME [00:23] thats not true. when the right people post a comment on their blog it creates huge waves of attention [00:23] when i dedicate 5 servers it gains me nothing [00:23] consider how the right people became the right people [00:23] they did the work [00:23] anyway, this isn't my area of interest, I'm just advising; you can take it or leave it [00:24] fantastic for those who did the right things ages ago. maybe i become a hacker in my next life [00:25] fruchtix: Whining about not being influential and not actually doing stuff isn't likely to help you reach your stated goal. [00:25] so far your general tone has succeeded in persuading me to go off and do something else more productive. :-( [00:25] its just sad when you see for what rubbish some celebrities use their blog and a brilliant idea dies slowly because it gets no attention [00:26] fruchtix: Around here doing stuff tends to get you more attention than whining or blogging. [00:26] slangasek: looks like if you pop -a after building, quilt screws up - reuploaded with the original 2 patches [00:26] dude, this is not about writing code. nobody needs your code in this case. [00:27] the code already exists. and a lot of data exists too [00:27] but you see what reactions i get here on this channel? what do you think what reactions i get when i start "doing work", huh? [00:28] fruchtix: code does need to be written to integrate debtags into useful apps like gnome-app-install and synaptic [00:28] huh? the reaction you got from me was entirely due to your horrifically negative tone [00:28] so thats why i takes a person with a reputation to pick it up [00:28] fruchtix: or at least someone with a less-whiny tone [00:28] the people with reputations have an awfully large amount of work that they have to do already [00:28] my tone? you feel my tone by text only? [00:28] thats amazing [00:28] I'm entirely happy to support debtags work in any way I can usefully do so, but it isn't my area of expertise so I'd rather do something I'm expert in [00:28] i love this cyberspace thing [00:28] fruchtix: No, that's why it takes someone whoe doesn't have a horrifically negative tone to take it up. This may be in your grasp. [00:29] fruchtix: yes, you're full of biting sarcasm, thatd be tone. [00:29] text is the way in which you're communicating, so you need to be careful about how things come across; I'm afraid that's life [00:29] you're such an optimist, colin [00:29] Particularly when you're trying to convince other people they want to work on something that interests you more than the. [00:29] charisma might help [00:30] maybe the situation creates the sarcasm and the feeling of anger for people who believe the gained all the fame for themselves instead of using it for the benefit of the project and the users [00:30] or maybe you just want free developers to work on your pet projects [00:30] who can say, in this crazy world of ours [00:30] thats actually the sharing philosophy, even when your paycheck from canonical is sexy [00:30] hey uh you realise a big chunk of this channel gets no paycheck for FOSS? [00:30] fruchtix: Most of the people talking to you don't work for Canonical. [00:31] after all, its the code of upstream in most cases that makes you happy and proud [00:31] so how about you check your own tone when you talk to me? [00:31] fruchtix: who says people here dont work with upstream? [00:32] and how about this code of conduct. did i sign it yet or did you sign it? [00:32] fruchtix: So far everyone here has been trying to give you helpful advice. [00:32] oh yeah? [00:32] like I say, I'm entirely happy to support debtags work in any way I can [00:32] Yes. [00:32] by judging my person? [00:32] by complaining about my "tone"? [00:32] ScottK, i haven't, i've been gently dripping sarcasm as i usually do [00:32] by telling you that if you want to get something working, then you should go make it work [00:32] OK. Except him [00:32] You've commented about your perceived inability to influence people; in that context I think comments about your tone are entirely reasonable. [00:32] directhex: no more than fruchtix has :P === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler [00:33] dude, if you seriously believe in this rubbish "if you want something done then do it yourself" then why the heck are we talking about a community? [00:33] Because that's pretty much a direct input into your ability to influence people. [00:33] fruchtix: what do you think a meritocracy is? [00:33] "community" doesn't mean "people doing stuff i want when i want it" [00:33] of *course* if you want something done right you do it yourself [00:33] fruchtix: If you seriously believe popping into an IRC channel and saying "everyone do this" works, you have no idea how the world works. [00:33] that's how its been since humans evolved/were created/came from neptune [00:33] heard about co-operation? [00:33] heard about "i am dedicated to my work"? [00:34] fruchtix: Yes. You? [00:34] heard about "i care for ubuntu and i dont just hang around here because of my cool vhost"? [00:34] Keybuk: ta [00:34] * cjwatson looks at the upstream release he's preparing over --> there at 00:34 local time [00:34] because I care about my work [00:34] perfect [00:34] okay, now the unexpected reality blast: if you want to see "something" done with debtags, why not make a concrete proposal which people CAN look at and comment on and cooperate on? [00:34] don't preach at me [00:34] cjwatson: when did i address you personally? [00:34] rather than a handwavey "DO MY STUFF!" [00:34] quite a bit, as it happens [00:35] aha [00:35] you have a lose concept and a chip on your shoulder. sort BOTH to get results [00:35] I gave you useful advice, you got all offended [00:35] cjwatson: and the person who pays your salery (your boss) tells you straight into your face "lamer, listen. if i need something done i do it myself. go on vacation"? [00:35] you don't neccessarily need to write buckets of perl - just come up with a real proposal beyond "you guys should drop what you're doing, i command it so" [00:35] fruchtix: no, in that case you're being PAID [00:36] i'm spent, sarcasm mode back on. [00:36] fruchtix: unless you are intending to offer a cash bounty to the person who does what you want, don't be so bossy, please [00:36] so all of a sudden there is a difference between a paid job _for_ the community and a volunteer job _for_ the community? [00:36] so all of a sudden we all realize that we only move our arse for other people when the paycheck is sexy? [00:36] look, hackers'll hack on whatever they want whenever they want [00:36] is that the free software spirit now? [00:36] they don't need to take orders from anyway [00:36] I believe the only person in this conversation who is paid by Canonical is me [00:36] *anyone [00:36] hurrah for entitlement culture [00:36] kids these days [00:36] * ajmitch scrolls up to see what started this rant [00:37] well, thanks for the interview then. have a nice day [00:37] ajmitch, "USE TEH DEBTAGS NAO!" [00:37] so the paycheck rant is rather missing the point [00:37] directhex: ah ok [00:37] yeah... [00:37] and btw - thanks for trolling me, too [00:37] (and in any case I was involved with free software long before I was paid to do so) [00:37] you know, i think i WILL do "something" with debtags [00:37] the point is, people will work on what they'll work on when they want to work on it, and if they dont want to work on what you want to work on, then you can do it yourself or find someone else to do it for you [00:37] its the cheap tricks of a young journalist. but it seems to work [00:37] And oddly enough I've spent most of my FOSS time today working on stuff that other people asked me to do. [00:37] a bonsi buddy clone, written in visual basic.net, which picks a package at random and tells you its tags [00:37] sounds helpful! [00:38] directhex: you're a bad man [00:38] directhex: that's scary [00:38] ajmitch, by design! [00:38] just because person A finds something interesting doesnt mean person B will [00:39] directhex: paid by canonical or do you troll for hobby right now? [00:39] or that B will have the skills even if they find it interesting [00:39] fruchtix, for the love of it [00:39] directhex: cool [00:39] i am sure you have your fans [00:39] oh, i do [00:39] fruchtix: did ya miss the part where cjwatson is the only paid one here? [00:40] * directhex fires up monodevelop, looks for some pictures of a purple gorilla [00:40] And I'm pretty sure he's not on the clock at gone midnight local for him. [00:40] definitely not [00:40] O_O [00:40] how many hours a day do you spend on this colin? [00:40] ScottK, don't most hackers only start being productive at 10pm? or is that just me? [00:40] ... some [00:40] Depends. [00:40] doing a man-db upstream release at the moment, taking a bit longer than I'd hoped [00:41] so canonical gave up control over one of the most important ubuntu channels here on freenode. also interesting news and good to know [00:41] what? [00:41] but yeah, launchpad is ready [00:41] canonical never had control of this channel... [00:41] i can see the strategy [00:41] not really [00:41] fruchtix: Ubuntu has always been a community led distro. [00:41] directhex: I for one would appreciate it if you didn't taunt people quite so mercilessly when they're already clearly aggravated... [00:41] fruchtix: is there a specifc thing you want done with debtags? specifically or ept-cache or is there more? [00:42] canonical's probably got more tech support people than developers, i'd guess [00:42] LaserJock: how's the moodle merge going? :) [00:42] #ubuntu-devel was open to non-Canonical contribution from the start, and had significant community involvement from the start (I was there, so I can be pretty sure about this) [00:42] ScottK: that sounds quite romantic, but i think without Mark and his investment into Canonical ... most of you guys would suck on the nibble of Debian or other distros [00:42] slangasek: getting there. lots and lots of CVE reviews [00:42] slangasek: I'm waiting though on a MIR for smarty [00:42] fruchtix, most of the people you're arguing with are long-standing Debian Developers [00:42] fruchtix: Of course the Canonical investment is critical, but there is a very substantial community involvedm. [00:42] fruchtix: you mean if ubuntu didn't exist, period? [00:43] slangasek, is that a "shut up" or a "stop working on Debtag Buddy"? [00:43] certainly I've been a Debian developer since 2001 [00:43] ... involvement. [00:43] LaserJock: uh? there's an MIR of a template engine required to fix a moodle security bug? [00:43] directhex: maybe thats why i am in the middle of my schizophrenia again. its the debian personality aspects [00:43] directhex: 'yes'? [00:43] cjwatson: what would you say? more devs or 1-800-help-4-me people? [00:43] slangasek: not required, but I'm merging a new upstream release in [00:43] slangasek: the release fixes loads of bugs and security vulernabilites [00:43] LaserJock: so I'm thinking that's not going to all be ready between now and Thursday and I should probably bump the milestone? [00:43] slangasek: the template engine is a split out lib [00:43] * ScottK decides to go pick up his daughter from the mall since that's more productive than this discussion. [00:44] ScottK: the computer-y one? i say "hi" [00:44] maco: more developers [00:44] if you would be able to isolate the technical aspects of the work of a debian person, then well, then we would not need Mark and Canonical to create ubuntu as a "helper" for the broken social aspects, right? [00:44] LaserJock: oh, it's code that's already in the existing moodle package? that doesn't require a full MIR, just a bug saying that [00:44] fruchtix: the social aspects arent the problem [00:44] slangasek: well, kees asked for it. It's all there [00:44] fruchtix: its the ease of use stuff [00:44] slangasek: but then he went on vacation so I'm not sure where it stands [00:45] fruchtix: i mean, yeah, there's the coc stuff....but really....the 6mo release cycle and the aim for simplicity is what brings people to ubuntu, i think [00:45] its the reputation for being fairly easy to use [00:45] ....that's why my mom uses it [00:45] maco: you dont know much about debian then. i am observing the situation since 8-9 years. and its 95% home made ... and social aspects [00:45] LaserJock: "if a new source package contains only code which is already in main, it may not need a full report. Submitting a bug with an explanation is sufficient." https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess - so if that's the case for smarty, upload and we'll fix up the overrides... [00:45] fruchtix: what do you mean 95% home made? [00:46] maco: problems made by debian developers for other debian developers [00:46] he means that he's Patrick Frank [00:46] social problems were one reason we founded Ubuntu rather than simply funding work on Debian, but far from the only one [00:46] * maco is very confused [00:46] slangasek: how is helix? are you still doing her? [00:46] slangasek: it's bug #327367 [00:46] Launchpad bug 327367 in smarty "MIR: please promote smarty to Main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/327367 [00:46] slangasek: that would explain a lot [00:47] sorry, should've gone with my gut 20 minutes ago [00:47] that took longer than required [00:47] O_o [00:47] I hadn't twigged to the debtags connection [00:48] what's the connection? [00:48] google [00:48] has Patrick expressed interest in debtags before? [00:48] yes [00:49] didn't he once threaten OFTC with legal action? [00:49] freenode, yes; OFTC, I don't know [00:50] preemptive dispatch from #ubuntu-motu ? [00:52] no, he's just ranting away in -server now [00:55] slangasek: the moodle changelog has 26 security fixes and 20 debian bugs fixed since our current version [00:56] slangasek: I was guessing that would get me a FF exception [00:57] in Debian we've got a buildable package that has incorporated almost all of Ubuntu's diff [00:57] so I just need to test to make sure it's not totally broken, get FFe approval, and then I can upload [00:58] my apologies to this channel for being drawn in too far by a troll [00:58] *sigh* you make one little change to the task_struct, and you have to rebuild almost the entire kernel :-/ [00:58] [00:59] Keybuk: If you are using the build system used by the Ubuntu kernel, that happens even if you make a config tweak unfortunately. That can probably be fixed up though. [00:59] cjwatson, maybe you just see the good in people. i called you an optimist half an hour ago ;) [01:01] I'm only sorry that this means he'll probably infect our mailing lists for a while [01:01] mm, really? [01:01] its a moderated list... [01:01] ubuntu-devel is; ubuntu-devel-discuss and others would require more effort to keep clean [01:01] yeah [01:01] it might also ruin people's desire a little to actual do something with debtags [01:02] right, that concerns me more [01:02] I do think it's a useful system [01:02] LaserJock: just because itd make the jerk happy? [01:02] not necessarily [01:02] but getting involved in a "war" with him every time you try to do something would be pretty demotivating [01:02] as well as people just getting tired of the subject [01:03] And the author [01:03] the author? [01:03] i couldn't spot the name of the real author. google failed to find much from what /whois revealed [01:03] Enrico Zini [01:03] directhex: if you're referring to our guest, the name is Patrick Frank [01:04] (who as far as I can tell is nothing to do with fruchtix, and is generally a very laid-back nice guy) [01:04] a google on that name and debian or ubuntu is... elucidating [01:07] slangasek: so do you think I can get a FFe by Thursday? [01:07] hm. flashes of obnoxiousness [01:08] LaserJock: "by 6pm" is also "by Thursday", so sure [01:08] i think dragging erinn into the above little troll session was pushing it rather hard though. i do wonder about people like that [01:08] then i mentally file them in the same bin as boycottnovell contributors, and sleep easy! \o/ [01:09] directhex: stick around long enough and he'll give you plenty more fodder for wondering [01:09] slangasek, we'll see where my NM application takes me! [01:11] directhex: the condensed backstory there, btw, is that he had a habit of joining #debian-women, each time with a different alias, despite being told his presence was unwelcome and inappropriate; and as an op there I both a) got good at identifying him, b) pissed him off to no end [01:11] oh, he's been here too? [01:11] yes [01:11] And -server [01:11] * maco snorts [01:11] Hobbsee: that sentence told you who was being talked about? [01:12] the buzzing was probably enough to make that clear :) [01:12] oh, paddy. right [01:13] He is one of those people that wanted debian-women to stop existing, isn't he? [01:13] * StevenK tries to remember [01:13] StevenK, highly likely, given the above descriptions [01:15] james_w is warning #ubuntu-women ops [01:16] A k-line sounds appealing right about now [01:16] StevenK: well, that's the aim. [01:17] or at least, likely to be the end result [01:17] I was going to say, surely the aim is to keep the network productive ... [01:17] Hah [01:18] A K-line would surely just get him more wound up, anyway; we already know he morphs [01:19] he's trolling #ubuntu-ops now, they can deal with it [01:20] he needs a hobby [01:20] well, a DIFFERENT hobby [01:20] StevenK: not as such; he just wanted debian-women to not have ops that would kick him from the channel [01:21] Pity that he has moved on from annoying Debian to us. :-/ [01:21] StevenK, gotta go where the slangasek is! [01:21] slangasek: all the better to troll them with? [01:21] they all come our way eventually [01:22] StevenK: he goes back and forth on which community to harrangue [01:23] it'll be Sven Luther before too long [01:23] Friendly [01:23] can we send him to...i dont know...whatever community has Theodore de Raadst? that could be amusing. [01:23] (cant spell that name, you figure it out) [01:23] maco, openbsd [01:24] directhex: the point was theodore, not the community ;) i hear he likes to argue on the internet [01:24] maco, newsgroups, probably. these days, newsgroups are where you go if 4chan is too civilized [01:25] maco, it's where you can find some of my critics, for one thing ^_^ [01:27] 4chan? Civilized? [01:27] * StevenK chokes [01:27] StevenK: ok so we're laughing at the same thing [01:27] I think directhex was aiming for irony [01:27] Duh :-P [01:27] Keybuk, too sleepy for sarcasm [01:27] Keybuk, irony will have to do [01:28] * Hobbsee suggests the channel go back on topic? ;) [01:28] oh right [01:28] development [01:28] Hobbsee: that'd just be boring [01:28] sigh, I meant to do gparted 0.4.2 today [01:29] I guess that will have to be tomorrow, I'd rather not do it while half-asleep [01:29] cjwatson: I meant to do lots of things today :-/ [01:29] too much lvm inotify madness [01:29] did you make any significant progress by the end of the day? [01:29] Hobbsee, i've hit 90% of my jaunty goals already, though \o/ [01:29] there were a few too many trees for me to see the forest [01:29] directhex: \o/ [01:29] cjwatson: I believe I have fixed the bug [01:30] I'll be trying to confirm that as soon as amd64 binaries are available [01:30] yeah, the buildds are on a go-slow today [01:30] is openjdk still building on arm? [01:30] Yes [01:30] And koffice, and kdebindings [01:31] Started on 2009-02-18 [01:31] and that really isn't a dead build? [01:31] LaserJock: I don't see that a FFe request was actually filed? [01:32] sbuild will kill a build that spins for 150 minutes with no output, IIRC [01:32] it's ARM [01:32] it has to save up for compilation in installments [01:34] wait, was that a mortgage joke? [01:34] no, more of a "collect each monthly part and they build up to this nice collectable executable" [01:35] "pay by direct debit and get this attractive binder FREE" [01:35] oh, so it's not about adjustable-rate mortgages [01:35] no, are adjustable-rate mortgages especially on your mind right now? [01:35] i guess that means i no longer have that excuse to not use lvm (excuse being: it usually breaks badly during devel time) and should download a daily cd to install and test with [01:35] Keybuk: not particularly, I was just grasping at straws trying to parse "compilation in installments" :) [01:36] I wish I had a variable rate mortgage [01:36] mine's fixed [01:36] and now the interest rate is practically non-existant [01:36] Below inflation, for some people. [01:36] we have one on the condo that we haven't been able to sell, and it keeps costing us less and less every quarter [01:36] Keybuk: refinance? :) [01:36] slangasek: still in the fixed period [01:36] so should I be rebuilding d-i against the new udev once it builds everywhere [01:37] ? [01:37] there's penalty clauses for early closure [01:37] have only a year or so left [01:37] and will an email go out when there's a daily cd available with a hopefully-working udev/lvm combination? [01:37] Keybuk: sure; I assume you've looked at the math then, to determine whether it's worth paying the penalty [01:37] slangasek: yeah, marginally not worth it [01:37] I suspect that without a d-i rebuild the alternate install CD will have slightly hosed LVM [01:38] it wasn't really that high interest rate to begin with [01:38] maco: not explicitly; but if the bugs are still closed tomorrow, tomorrow's CD will have the fix [01:38] slangasek: Still can't sell the condo? :-/ [01:38] StevenK: nah - bearing in mind that it's still winter here, so the market is only just starting to pick up [01:39] slangasek: The housing market hibernates for the winter? [01:39] StevenK: yes [01:39] Odd [01:39] nobody wants to buy a house when they don't have enough light to look at it first [01:40] hurrah, my new kernel built \o/ [01:40] now to remember what I was going to do with it [01:40] make kernel panckaes [01:40] pancakes [01:40] slangasek: ok. / keeps filling so it seems i need to switch to lvm so i'll be able to resize it next time i fill it. [01:41] :) [01:41] slangasek: it is Tuesday here ;) [01:41] Tuesday is kernel pancake day? [01:41] maco: You have things like /usr and /var seperated? [01:41] Tuesday is Pancake Day [01:43] slangasek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancake_Day [01:43] Keybuk: wow, a cultural reference that totally eluded me :) [01:43] slangasek: I'm not entirely sure you knew about that [01:43] if not, that was an amazing piece of annual timing for a pancake joke [01:43] apparently so :) [01:49] slangasek: no, I didn't file one as I don't have the packages finalized [01:49] *package [01:50] LaserJock: oh. I guess that means I can't give you an FFe by 6 today [01:52] slangasek: why did you want it by 6 today? [01:52] LaserJock: because after 6, I'm not available to approve it until tomorrow :) [01:53] slangasek: 6 pacific time or central? [01:53] pacific [01:53] so 7 min [01:53] :) [01:53] hmmm, that's rather tight [01:53] as opposed to -113 min [01:53] LaserJock: don't sweat it [01:54] well, let me work on it and get it done now [01:54] if I get it in 7min fine [01:54] if not tomorrow will due [01:54] :-) [01:54] I need to get this bugger out the door [01:55] I've already spent quite a few hours digging through CVEs and inline patches [01:58] hmm [01:58] today's daily live is unwell [01:58] known ubiquity bug, milestoned [01:59] the fork-bombing nautilus? [01:59] install python-numpy by hand before invoking ubiquity if you want to use it [01:59] oh, no, that's not what other people reported with it :) [01:59] Nautilus now fork-bombs the system? [01:59] seems to [02:00] I get about 1,000 little "Starting File Manager" things along the bottom [02:00] Ow! [02:00] StevenK: it was mentioned in reference to update-manager mem usage, and didn't want to be outdone [02:01] Bwaha [02:02] Keybuk: can you spot any obvious reason why the fix in bug #291752 was wrong? [02:02] Launchpad bug 291752 in cryptsetup "[regression] cryptsetup does not work on raw encrypted drives" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291752 [02:03] Keybuk: checking for the device node, but not checking that vol_id returns something meaningful for the device, caused a regression for at least one user who says his crypted rootfs doesn't mount right anymore in intrepid [02:04] StevenK: no, i dont. just / and /home. i have to apt-get clean after each round of updates because i have gnome and kde installed and that leaves only 1gb for updates...which it is very easy to hit [02:04] slangasek: the vol_id check in the initramfs? [02:04] that's probably important [02:04]