[00:00] <anakron> ups
[00:00] <anakron> yes :-)
[00:00] <Laney> A couple of other things - the version should have been 1ubuntu1
[00:00] <anakron> im not too familiar with this
[00:00] <Laney> and you should put the .xpm inside debian/
[00:00] <anakron> yes...
[00:00] <anakron> ...
[00:00] <anakron> o
[00:00] <anakron> ok
[00:00] <anakron> how i can do it
[00:00] <anakron> create a new patch?
[00:02] <Laney> anakron: I wonder if this patch is really necessary anyway? The bug is really minor in any event and introducing the change in Ubuntu means we have to maintain the patch until Debian or upstream take it
[00:02] <anakron> yes i know it
[00:02] <anakron> and this one?
[00:03] <anakron> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firestarter/+bug/301603
[00:03] <anakron> i edit a patch that changes su-to-root -X -c to gksu -X -C, but gksu does'nt have these options
[00:04] <Laney> shouldn't su-to-root work fine?
[00:04] <anakron> yes It will work
[00:04] <anakron> but the package have this patch
[00:04] <anakron> that change su-to-root to gksu
[00:05] <anakron> i don't know why
[00:05] <anakron> but add gksu with -X -c
[00:05] <Laney> what about kde users who don't have gksu?
[00:05] <anakron> Laney
[00:06] <Laney> You need to add a dependency on it for it to be available
[00:06] <anakron> i know that su-to-root its better for upstream than gksu
[00:06] <anakron> but, the maintainer set it
[00:06] <anakron> i could change it
[00:06] <anakron> or set it as dependence
[00:06] <Laney> aha, I misunderstood you
[00:07] <Laney> I thought you removed su-to-root ;)
[00:07] <anakron> :)
[00:07] <anakron> the problem is that the patch set gksu with -X -c
[00:07] <anakron> so, i remove -X -c
[00:07] <Laney> yeah, I get it
[00:08] <Laney> I don't understand the original patch though - drop it and it seems to launch fine
[00:08] <anakron> but i can change it and add gksu in dependences
[00:08] <anakron> i can't too
[00:10] <Laney> anakron: I think whoever did the last merge was wrong
[00:10] <anakron> ill see debian package
[00:11] <Laney> From reading bug 5269 it looks like the package originally used gksudo
[00:11] <Laney> but Debian changed to use su-to-root with -7, so we should have gone with this change
[00:12] <Laney> anakron: If you do a debdiff which drops the patch (and confirm it works) then I will be happy to sponsor that
[00:12] <anakron> ok
[00:13] <directhex> Laney, monodevelop debuggers, tuppence a bag!
[00:14] <directhex> Laney, got X going again then?
[00:14] <Laney> directhex: metacity compositor was the culprit here
[00:15] <Laney> although scrolling is still pretty slow especially in FF
[00:15] <directhex> silly metacity
[00:15] <directhex> evilwm!
[00:15] <Laney> I want my freedom-hating fglrx back :(
[00:25] <anakron> Laney, how i can take this patch away? it use dpatch
[00:25] <anakron> im trying
[00:27] <jmarsden> anakron: edit debian/patches/00list
[00:27] <anakron> but
[00:27] <anakron> that is all?
[00:27] <anakron> i thought in it
[00:28] <jmarsden> Well, you can delete the actual patch file too, once you are sure you want to get rid of it.
[00:28] <Laney> yep
[00:28] <Laney> delete it from 00list and then delete the actual file
[00:29] <anakron> actual file, patch file?
[00:29] <anakron> the last and first patch says that desktop file should use gksu
[00:30] <Laney> uh, confusing
[00:30] <anakron> yes
[00:30] <anakron> its weird
[00:30] <anakron> because first
[00:30] <anakron> desktop file says that Exec=firestarter, then apply 1st patch to > gksu firestarter
[00:31] <anakron> then i dont know which one but it changes to su-to-root
[00:31] <anakron> and the last patch changes it to gksu
[00:31] <anakron> xD
[00:31] <anakron> I'll take away the last patch
[00:31] <Laney> :q
[00:31] <Laney> you aren't vim!
[00:32] <anakron> ¿?
[00:32] <Laney> anakron: grep -r su-to-root . in the package directory will find it
[00:32] <anakron> ok
[00:32] <Laney> It seems like there were three patches touching the same line in Ubuntu
[00:32]  * Laney spanks everyone concerned
[00:33] <anakron> hi mruiz
[00:33] <mruiz> anakron, hi
[00:34] <Laney> anakron: please write in the changelog that no Ubuntu changes remain
[00:35] <anakron> why?
[00:35] <mruiz> anakron, sync?
[00:35] <anakron> yes it seems
[00:36] <Laney> so that the next uploader knows this
[00:36] <anakron> I'll look at debian package
[00:36] <mruiz> anakron, if Ubuntu changes are dropped they must be included by upstream or Debian
[00:36] <Laney> or more correctly, the person who merges it next
[00:37] <anakron> ok
[00:37] <anakron> grep -r su-to-root still looking for, but nothing appears
[00:38] <Laney> laney@chicken> grep -r su-to-root .                                ~/dev/ubuntu/packaging/firestarter/firestarter-1.0.3
[00:38] <Laney> ./debian/patches/11_desktop_file.dpatch:+Exec=su-to-root -X -c /usr/sbin/firestarter
[00:39] <anakron> mm here nothing happens
[00:39] <anakron> xD
[00:40] <anakron> it seems that the first patch must be deleted  and this one must be edited
[00:41] <anakron> and the last patch must be deleted too
[00:41] <Laney> what happens if you just delete 25?
[00:42] <anakron> but the first patch is useless
[00:42] <Laney> you should report a debian bug about it
[00:42] <anakron> it's more easy to just delete 25
[00:43] <savvas> ScottK: I found a patch that might fix the bmpx build for ppc/powerpc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/122614/ - http://www.mail-archive.com/pld-cvs-commit@lists.pld-linux.org/msg149860.html
[00:43] <Laney> we don't want to make additional changes over Debian if we can help it
[00:43] <anakron> i think that for this bug I only delete 25
[00:43] <anakron> and then I'll do changes and report it to debian directly
[00:43] <Laney> yes, that's a good way to do it
[00:43] <savvas> ScottK: I'm trying the patch in PPA, to see if it works for normal architectures as well: http://launchpad.net/~medigeek/+archive/ppa/+builds?build_text=&build_state=pending
[01:04] <ScottK> savvas: Great.  Let me know how it goes.
[01:05] <btm> ScottK: with gems drama and all, we're back in sync with debian, right?
[01:05] <ScottK> If the sync from experimental gets done, yes.
[01:05] <btm> ScottK: I guess I meant policy wise / culture wise. Cool.
[01:06] <ScottK> The one gems diversion did not stand, so I don't think it ended up being a significant diversion.
[01:06] <ScottK> It was mostly a question of enough people knowing.
[01:12] <Laney> gah
[01:12] <Laney> can we start uploading notification fixes?
[01:12] <Laney> I am about to rip Banshee's face off
[01:14] <ScottK> Laney: Got FFe?
[01:14] <Laney> ScottK: Is it a feature?
[01:15] <ScottK> Certainly.  Changing the system to integrate with a different notification system is definitely a feature.
[01:15] <ScottK> Not complying with something that isn't even a spec is not a bug.
[01:19] <Laney> Well the feature was introduced in the new notify-osd package. Is not what we have now a series of bugs in upstreams (not checking for capabilities)?
[01:19] <Laney> I guess you could argue that making notifications-with-actions into alerts is a misfeature
[01:20] <ScottK> Laney: Where is there any standard that requires checking for features?
[01:21] <ScottK> One can't take a draft, unapproved standard that is still under negotation, implement something new from it and then declare all non-supporters of this new feature buggy.
[01:21] <ScottK> Well one can, but it's really not cricket IMO.
[01:22] <Laney> Right; it has been done, and now we must implement the fixes.
[01:22] <Laney> I don't see the point in requiring paperwork to do so, since there is really no way we are going to leave the behaviour as it is now
[01:23] <anakron> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firestarter/+bug/301603
[01:24] <anakron> Laney, here it is
[01:24] <Laney> thanks
[01:29] <Laney> anakron: It doesn't build
[01:29] <Laney> applying patch 01_use_gksu to /build/laney-firestarter_1.0.3-7ubuntu2-amd64-hUSBIB/firestarter-1.0.3-7ubuntu2/debian/patches ... failed.
[01:29] <anakron> ¿?
[01:30] <anakron> i built it and then i create a debfile
[01:30] <anakron> and runs ok
[01:30] <anakron> mmm ill see it
[01:34] <anakron> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/122624/
[01:34] <anakron> i make debuild -S
[01:34] <anakron> and then dpkg-buildpackage
[01:37] <Laney> anakron: You should use pbuilder or sbuild to build packages
[01:37] <anakron> ups
[01:37] <Laney> often problems can be missed by using debuild/dpkg-buildpackage alone
[01:37] <tonyyarusso> Would someone be willing to explain gdb breakpoints to me?  I'm trying to examine the values of a variable at various points in the execution of a program (finch), and when I try setting one it tells me the source file isn't found.
[01:37] <mruiz> Laney, good point
[01:38] <anakron> mm
[01:38] <anakron> ok
[01:38] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: You need to instruct gdb where to find the source
[01:39] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: aaaah.  How do I go about that?
[01:40] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: Step 1) Get the source
[01:40] <tonyyarusso> Got that.
[01:40] <xoox> Is there a way to check from the command line what the version of a package is in a given release?
[01:40] <StevenK> xoox: rmadison
[01:40] <StevenK> However, that will only cover supported releases
[01:41] <StevenK> It requires Launchpad and a shovel to find out for unsupported releases
[01:41] <tonyyarusso> Is it just cd?  (http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemnet/use/info/gdb/gdb_5.html#SEC20)
[01:41] <xoox> Thanks StevenK
[01:41] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: Sounds plausible
[01:42] <Laney> anakron: I fixed a problem with a missing build-dep and now it's OK
[01:42] <anakron> ok
[01:43] <anakron> :) i do it when i try to do dpkg-buildpackage
[01:44] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: That gets me to a different error at least, so progress.  Now it says "No symbol table is loaded.  Use the "file" command."  (just typing 'file' says "No executable file now, No symbol file now")  I passed -g and -gstabs in CFLAGS when I compiled, but I'm entirely certain what that does / how to make use of it.
[01:45] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: Why did you feed into gdb to get that error?
[01:45] <tonyyarusso> uh, "Why" or "What"?  I had just said 'break save_pounce_cb' (that being a function I want to stop at)
[01:49] <savvas> ScottK: good news, lpia built! https://launchpad.net/~medigeek/+archive/ppa/+build/882034 - still waiting for i386 and amd64 though
[01:50] <tonyyarusso> Sounds like I have to tell it how to load symbols?
[01:52] <tonyyarusso> oh, found that.  'file /usr/bin/finch' is what it wanted.
[01:58] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: I was able to get a bit further now.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/122638/  a) I'm not sure why I'm getting that message about No such file or directory, b) How do I make sense of 0x8242158?  (dialog->on_status is what I'm concerned with)
[02:05] <Laney> anakron: I just uploaded it, thanks for your contribution
[02:05] <anakron> :)
[02:05] <anakron> thanks to you
[02:07] <Laney> now to see if it also ftbfs on sid
[02:07] <Laney> then I should go to sleep
[02:09] <anakron> when is UDS?
[02:11] <StevenK> anakron: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS
[02:11] <anakron> ok
[02:12] <Laney> I just applied for sponsorship \o
[02:12] <Laney> shot in the dark, but might as well try
[02:12] <anakron> :)
[02:12] <anakron> hey laney
[02:12] <anakron> one question, what can i do for this desktop file http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/122641/
[02:12] <Laney> yo
[02:13] <Laney> what's wrong with it?
[02:13] <tonyyarusso> I'm guessing 0x8242158 is a memory register address or something, but I need to be able to see the actual data (a pointer that actually just contains an integer, I want to know the integer) stored there.
[02:13] <Laney> do you know about desktop-file-validate?
[02:13] <anakron> because desktop-file-validate says that is not valid character
[02:13] <anakron> yes
[02:13] <Laney> right
[02:13] <ScottK> savvas: If you think you have it figured out, we should ask TheMuso if he'll do a powerpc test build.
[02:13] <anakron> but i can't validate it
[02:13] <Laney> you can replace it with ö
[02:13] <Laney> the utf-8 character
[02:13] <LaserJock> what's a good practice for changelog entries when Debian hasn't released yet?
[02:13] <anakron> :O ok
[02:14] <anakron> how i do it
[02:14] <LaserJock> i.e. when you're uploading something based on a Debian VCS version
[02:14] <Laney> anakron: But this is the kind of change we don't need to make
[02:14] <anakron> ok
[02:14] <Laney> LaserJock: I like -1~ubuntu1, but personal preference
[02:14] <Laney> -x~ubuntu1, generally
[02:14] <LaserJock> Laney: and do you keep the Debian entry even if it hasn't been uploaded yet?
[02:15] <Laney> LaserJock: I keep it, but add a comment at the top under my name: "uploading Debian SVN revision"
[02:15] <Laney> then the reason
[02:16] <tonyyarusso> ~ubuntu1?  I thought it was -0ubuntu1.  :S
[02:16] <Laney> Some people like that too (for new upstream versions). I think that ~ubuntu1 makes the heritage of an upload clearer
[02:17] <LaserJock> the problem is that Debian has a -1 entry, and then I'm going to add on top of that a -0ubuntu1, a lower version
[02:17] <LaserJock> that seems weird to me
[02:17] <Laney> I don't think LP would even let you upload
[02:17] <LaserJock> I would think it would
[02:18] <Laney> Oh, *debian* has it
[02:18] <Laney> yeah, that would work
[02:18] <Laney> you could either rename -1 to -0ubuntu1 or -1~ubuntu1. Doesn't matter really
[02:18] <LaserJock> Debian has an un-uploaded -1 entry
[02:18] <LaserJock> well, I guess it doesn't matter a bunch, but I am going to make it UNRELEASED
[02:18] <savvas> ScottK: I'll try and test it locally in about 10-15 minutes
[02:19] <LaserJock> just so people know Debian hasn't uploaded it yet
[02:19] <ScottK> OK.  Great.
[02:19] <Laney> bed
[02:19] <Laney> night all
[02:19] <ScottK> Laney: -0ubuntu1 is the standard way to do it.
[02:24] <theholyduck> if say. i wanted ubuntu to come with a non horribly broken x264, ffmpeg and mplayer, could i volenteer to motu and make updated packages for them?
[02:26] <superm1> theholyduck, what's wrong with those packages?
[02:26] <theholyduck> superm1, ffmpeg is built from a horribly old svn snapshot. x264 is built from a horribly old git snapshot. and mplayer is built from a release from 2007 instead of a svn snapshot
[02:27] <theholyduck> all 3 packages are unsported and unstable for anything OTHER than latest svn
[02:27] <theholyduck> but ubuntu still packages bad versions of them
[02:27] <superm1> theholyduck, well for mplayer, that's the latest stable release
[02:27] <superm1> 1.0~rc2
[02:27] <theholyduck> superm1, well yes :P
[02:28] <theholyduck> but svn is WAY stabler
[02:28] <savvas> ScottK: it works on amd64 :)
[02:28] <theholyduck> faster, and more usable
[02:28] <theholyduck> than that release
[02:28] <theholyduck> mplayer doesnt DO releases
[02:28] <ScottK> great.
[02:28] <theholyduck> wich is why its their "Latest stable"
[02:28] <superm1> theholyduck, well you can certainly do the work to file a group of FFe's for these and have the motu-release time evaluate them if you are interested
[02:28] <superm1> there would be no guarantees such things would be accepted, but that would be the process
[02:29] <superm1> theholyduck, you might want to talk to siretart before you do so though
[02:29] <theholyduck> superm1, well i currently resorted to writing a script for dling all deps and building and making a .deb for local system use
[02:30] <theholyduck> so that all the ubuntu users who clog up #Mplayer #ffmpeg and #x264 could get up to date pacakges
[02:30] <theholyduck> it doesnt do actual .deb packaging just checkinstall
[02:30] <theholyduck> but i cant see why ffmpeg and x264 gets developement versions but mplayer doesnt.
[02:30] <theholyduck> and why the developement versions dont get updated more frequently
[02:31] <theholyduck> x264 and ffmpeg both enjoy very rapid developement
[02:31] <superm1> theholyduck, i would imagine they generally have implications on other packages
[02:31] <superm1> such as the gstreamer stack (for ffmpeg)
[02:31] <theholyduck> doesnt gstreamer use its own package with its own ffmpeg
[02:31] <theholyduck> gstreamer-ffmpeg or whatever?
[02:32] <theholyduck> no reason you couldnt have a ffmpeg-svn x264-git and mplayer-svn package that fills the depends for their respective "stable" packages
[02:32] <theholyduck> but for people who want a usable system
[02:33] <superm1> theholyduck, no, it uses libavcodec from the system ffmpeg
[02:33] <theholyduck> arghh. why do everyone persist in dynamicly linking everything :P
[02:33] <superm1> saves space, encourages stable ABI & API
[02:34] <theholyduck> superm1, in a perfect world yes :P
[02:34] <theholyduck> but all its doing in this case is stagnating your ffmpeg
[02:34] <theholyduck> since people depends on how that stagnated ffmpeg work
[02:34] <superm1> theholyduck, so you will have more likelyhood of getting FFes on the parts that don't have potential to hurt other packages (such as mplayer)
[02:34] <anakron> ping Laney; hey, how i can see which dependecies are needed to add
[02:34] <theholyduck> the world isnt perfect thus dynamic linking doesnt work.
[02:35] <superm1> theholyduck, but feel free to file the set of FFes and let the release teams evaluate them and talk to siretart about ffmpeg
[02:35] <anakron> ups sorry
[02:35] <theholyduck> i might just stick to my supply a script that compiles x264, ffmpeg and mplayer statically. then integrates it into the packagemanager plan
[02:36] <theholyduck> more ideal since ffmpeg should be updated every day
[02:36] <xoox> theholyduck: Use rvm's PPA. http://ppa.launchpad.net/rvm/ubuntu
[02:37] <theholyduck> still no ffmpeg :)
[02:37] <anakron> someone here
[02:37] <theholyduck> but atleast mplayer is alteast sorta usably built
[02:38] <anakron> if when i use pbuilder and it says that "E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed"
[02:38] <superm1> theholyduck, you might consider setting up a PPA for daily ffmpeg builds then
[02:38] <anakron> what can i do?
[02:38] <theholyduck> x264 is still horribly  outdated on that one xoox
[02:38] <superm1> theholyduck, it would probably be useful to these same people who use your script
[02:38] <savvas> TheMuso: Can you test a powerpc package of bmpx 0.40.14-1ubuntu1 on jaunty using this debdiff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/122614/
[02:38] <theholyduck> 20080917 is so anicent its not really worth mentioning in x264 terms
[02:39] <xoox> theholyduck: I would try searching people's PPA's before trying to build it yourself.
[02:39] <anakron> i must look at debian/control and see which  things are needed to add as build-depends?
[02:39] <TheMuso> savvas: I will try it later, still don't have a build environment up yet sorry, will get to it as soon as I do.
[02:39] <xoox> theholyduck: I agree with you about the poor support for tracking rapidly developing packages.
[02:39] <savvas> TheMuso: thanks :)
[02:40] <hggdh> anakron, look at the output of the pbuilder run to find what was missing
[02:40] <hggdh> anakron, and add it in debian/control
[02:40] <anakron> i try to see it doing a dpkg-buildpackage
[02:40] <anakron> and it says that are some deps that are needed to install
[02:41] <hggdh> there you go
[02:41] <anakron> but all of thm are used by pbuilder
[02:44] <theholyduck> superm1, do i need to setup a launchpad team or project or something to get my own ppa?
[02:46] <theholyduck> google to the rescue
[04:20] <tonyyarusso> gah, I don't understand gdb at all.  I've managed to get output for 'print variable', but it looks nothing like what I expect to see in that variable.  :(
[04:20] <StevenK> You mean, it's a pointer?
[04:21] <tonyyarusso> Well, at least originally I was working with a pointer, but then I (thought I) created another dummy variable to hold the value of just the integer (gotten from GPOINTER_TO_INT()), and that doesn't help either, so I'm not really sure what's going on.
[04:22] <tonyyarusso> (Keep in mind though that I just started trying to have the concept of pointers explained to me yesterday.)
[04:22] <StevenK> Oh.
[04:22] <StevenK> I'm guessing the variable you're interested in is a struct?
[04:23] <tonyyarusso> I don't know?
[04:24] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: Well, what is the type of the variable you're interested in?
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> http://paste.ubuntu.com/122663/ - I'm trying to find out the value of dialog->on_status, so I can figure out why things aren't behaving like I expect around lines 200-207 and/or 468-473.
[04:25] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: I believe it's an integer that's been converted to a pointer (to match what the function is expecting), and then I try converting it back.
[04:26] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: And when you break at line 200, what is on_status_as_int ?
[04:27] <tonyyarusso> $1 = -1210495972
[04:28] <tonyyarusso> actually, wait - that's a few lines earlier I think.
[04:29] <tonyyarusso> still get the same thing.
[04:41] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: any idea why it's not 1, 2, or 3?
[04:41] <StevenK> Perhaps it's not an int ...
[04:43] <tonyyarusso> Time to hit the documentation for GPOINTER_TO_INT?
[04:43] <StevenK> Sounds like a good first step
[04:46] <tonyyarusso> sadly, this stuff seems to be quite poorly documented :(
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> This is the clearest thing I've found so far, but it seems to say I had it right - http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-app-devel-list/2001-July/msg00246.html
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> Also, http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-Type-Conversion-Macros.html, but that page is gibberish to me.
[04:50] <tonyyarusso> oh, wait a second
[04:51] <tonyyarusso> I'm not entirely clear about how things are stored in the combo box I think.  Looking for examples of that too...
[05:02] <tonyyarusso> I found a file that does similar things - http://paste.ubuntu.com/122670/.  Looking through that - hopefully it will help.
[05:42] <dholbach> good morning
[05:42] <dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
[05:43] <fabrice_sp> Hi dholbach :-)
[06:04] <fabrice_sp> dholbach, I've just update the debdiff of Bug #334035. I forgot to close the bug in the changelog :-/
[06:04] <fabrice_sp> and I saw too late your comment :-) Do you want me to update the patch?
[06:05] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: no, I uploaded it already - just close it manually
[06:06] <fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks!
[06:14] <fabrice_sp> A small question: what would be the Ubuntu's version for 0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2 ?
[06:14] <fabrice_sp> dch propose me 0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu1
[06:15] <dholbach> sounds good
[06:16] <dholbach> just add ubuntu1
[06:18] <fabrice_sp> ok. Just seemed to me a too long version number! :-)
[06:18] <dholbach> not our problem, we just add 7 characters to it ;-)
[06:18] <siretart> theholyduck: I wouldn't call the ffmpeg snapshot from a few weeks ago 'horribly outdated'...
[06:19] <theholyduck> well im talking hardy currently :P
[06:19] <theholyduck> i only deal with what i have to support
[06:19] <theholyduck> and the one in hardy is from sometime in 2008
[06:19] <siretart> theholyduck: it should even provide VDPAU, but I couldn't find someone to actually test it
[06:19] <theholyduck> siretart, well ffmpeg doesnt REALLY provide vdpau :P
[06:19] <theholyduck> atleast not fully :P
[06:19] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: are you going to forward the transcalc fix upstream?
[06:19] <theholyduck> you need to get the nvidas own build for that
[06:19] <siretart> well, ffmpeg in hardy is indeed nearly a year old, that's right.
[06:20] <siretart> we could update it in -backports, but this would break nearly all media players in ubuntu
[06:20] <theholyduck> siretart, yes. and there is no reaon you cant keep updating it:P
[06:20] <fabrice_sp> dholbach, I didn't find a up-to-date upstream page (2007, it seems), so I was opening a bug report in Debian
[06:20] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: sounds good
[06:20] <theholyduck> siretart, well a ffmpeg older than 1 weeks is way outdated
[06:20] <fabrice_sp> :-)
[06:20] <theholyduck> by ffmpeg standards
[06:20] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: do you use "submittodebian" for that?
[06:20] <siretart> theholyduck: breaking all media players *is* a very good reason
[06:20] <theholyduck> a x264 outdated by 3 days is outdated by x264 standards
[06:21] <siretart> says who?
[06:21] <StevenK> theholyduck: An ffmpeg outdated by one *commit* is ancient, for crying out load
[06:21] <StevenK> *loud
[06:21] <theholyduck> the guys CREATING the damn software
[06:21] <fabrice_sp> dholbach, I generally use reportbug, with manual email :-/ I'll check submittodebian :-)
[06:21] <theholyduck> StevenK, well yes. but when it hits a week its horrible :P
[06:21] <StevenK> theholyduck: Hardy is released. I can't see us updating it.
[06:22] <siretart> theholyduck: well, then try to provide a PPA with updated versions of x264 and ffmpeg. you don't even need to be a developer
[06:22] <theholyduck> siretart, well if players just built in the version of ffmpeg they used.
[06:22] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: the nice thing about it is that it makes use of the stuff in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging for you
[06:22] <siretart> theholyduck: I documented the update procedure pretty cleary in debian/README.upstream-upgrade
[06:22] <theholyduck> instead of insisting on the idiocy of dynamic linking
[06:22] <theholyduck> this wouldnt be a problem now would it?
[06:22] <theholyduck> ffmpeg isnt really THAT large a binary anyway
[06:22] <StevenK> IDIOCY!?
[06:23] <siretart> then maintain all media players with static copies of ffmpeg in your PPA
[06:23] <ScottK> We're pretty much in favor of dynamic linking around here.
[06:23] <theholyduck> ScottK, im not though :P
[06:23] <theholyduck> it encourages not updating packages
[06:23] <theholyduck> because other packages would break
[06:23] <siretart> ffmpeg is just about 8 MB of code (on i386). I would call that rather large...
[06:23] <dholbach> ?
[06:23] <ScottK> Not if they're sanely designed.
[06:23] <theholyduck> ScottK, well ffmpeg isnt sanely designed or developed
[06:23] <theholyduck> and never will be.
[06:23] <ScottK> Agreed.
[06:23] <theholyduck> most apps wont be
[06:24] <StevenK> theholyduck: No, it involves updating one package in the case of a security flaw, rather than 15.
[06:24] <ScottK> There I disagree.
[06:24] <theholyduck> dynamic linking is perfect in a perfect world :P
[06:24] <fabrice_sp> dholbach, I see. I'll check all that before submitting to debian. Tahnks for the pointers!
[06:24] <theholyduck> but the world is far from perfect. thus it doesnt work
[06:24] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: anytime
[06:24]  * ScottK declines to really get into it and goes to bed instead.
[06:24] <siretart> dynamic linking is okay for ubuntu & debian. I'd say we do a fairly good job so far, of course there is always room for improvements
[06:24] <dholbach> ScottK: sleep tight
[06:24] <siretart> ScottK: good night!
[06:25] <ScottK> Good night all.
[06:25] <theholyduck> and then you got softwares like x264.
[06:25] <theholyduck> with THIIIINY binaries.
[06:25] <fabrice_sp> good night ScottK
[06:25] <theholyduck> that makes even LESS sense to dynamically link
[06:25] <siretart> theholyduck: are you willing to actually help to improve the situation or are you only trying to make people work for your pleasing?
[06:26] <theholyduck> siretart, well i'll start working on trying to package usable mediaplayers for ubuntu. but it sorta saddens me since i wouldnt ordinarily use it :P
[06:26] <siretart> ubuntu already has rather useable media players: ffplay, gxine, vlc, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg using packages like totem, phonon + applications...
[06:27] <theholyduck> the only reason im willing to do it is because there are more and more people using the horrible abomination of mediaplayers known as vlc instead of mplayer because the mplayer in ubuntu is outdated
[06:27] <theholyduck> siretart, gstreamer and vlc are abominations.
[06:27] <theholyduck> ffplay isnt MENT to play files
[06:27] <theholyduck> it cant even demux propperly
[06:27] <siretart> what media players are missing?
[06:28] <theholyduck> siretart, well the problem with linux is that all the playback solutions are horribly flawed in some way
[06:28] <theholyduck> mplayer from svn is currently the only close to usable one
[06:28] <theholyduck> but no distros package it :D
[06:29] <siretart> well, then try to update the mplayer package
[06:29] <siretart> preferably based on this git branch: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/mplayer.git;a=summary
[06:29] <siretart> I could then consider uploading it to debian
[06:30] <theholyduck> well again. unless its a svn build its no good,,
[06:30] <theholyduck> actually you shouldnt even be packaging mplayer svn, but one of the custom git reps.
[06:30] <theholyduck> but thats another discussion alltogether
[06:31] <theholyduck> then some users might want mplayer with ffmpeg-mt, or mplayer with a non sucky libass.
[06:31] <theholyduck> etc :)
[06:31] <theholyduck> mplayer is not a package that lends itself to sanely be used in a packagemanager
[06:31] <siretart> then don't use the package at all, but install it in your ~/local or something. problme solved
[06:32] <theholyduck> siretart, wich is basicly what the script i've been working on does anyway
[06:32] <siretart> you could also craft script to automate this. just keep them out of ubuntu, please
[06:33] <theholyduck> siretart, anyways the idea was to create a interactive script to pick if you want uau's improved git. or plain mplayer svn, libass patches, gradfun patches, ffmpeg-mt and what not
[06:33] <theholyduck> then grab the deps and compile and install.
[06:34] <theholyduck> and the same for x264 and ffmpeg.
[06:34] <theholyduck> though alot of the situation would be fixed if ubuntu did the same thing with mplayer as they did with ffmpeg. as in package atleast a semi recent svn
[06:34] <theholyduck> its better than nothing anyway
[06:35] <siretart> as said, feel free to update the package. I even told you the url to the branch
[06:37] <theholyduck> siretart, seems pretty old if you ask me. but whatever. i'll think im going to stick with the script it approach for now, trying to stick to all the ubuntu packaging rules that i quite frankly think are idiotic isnt exactly my idea of fun
[06:38] <dholbach> theholyduck: I think it's a good idea to accept that the Ubuntu approach is a bit different because of our commitments wrt releases - if you want bleeding edge, that's fine too
[06:39] <theholyduck> dholbach, another thing i never understood about ubuntu. is that while SOME of the packages are pretty up to date. others seems to orginate from debian stable
[06:39] <dholbach> "live and let live"
[06:40] <dholbach> theholyduck: we import source packages from sid
[06:40] <theholyduck> dholbach, all of them?
[06:40] <dholbach> until DebianImportFreeze
[06:40] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule
[06:40] <siretart> theholyduck: bashing developers for doing something you don't understand is not a good way to get people do what you want them to do
[06:40] <siretart> anyway, need to hurry to work now, cu later
[06:40] <dholbach> have a great day siretart
[06:42] <ajmitch> hi
[06:43] <theholyduck> anyways. i just think its annoying when distros dont listen to upstream. and then you get all the people reporting bugs that have been fixed ages ago. but the distros dont package the relevant versions
[06:44] <dholbach> theholyduck: I understand your problem - the problem we have is that we need to be conservative with changes we make to something that is released already
[06:46] <theholyduck> well ffmpeg/mplayer/x264 was never MENT to be stable consistent software that you could just depend upon and forget.
[06:46] <StevenK> Why? Because API/ABI stability is pointless?
[06:47] <theholyduck> StevenK, because ideas and techniques to encoding and decoding keep changing
[06:47] <StevenK> That doesn't answer my question.
[06:47] <theholyduck> StevenK, well if you say you're going to stick to a api. you loose the ability to break compitability
[06:48] <theholyduck> for performance or cleanness reasons
[06:48] <dholbach> users of a release are not interested in having compatibility broken :)
[06:48] <theholyduck> the inability to break compitability is what makes things stagnate
[06:48] <dholbach> like my mom
[06:48] <dholbach> we can break it in the next release all we like
[06:48] <theholyduck> and stagnation is bad.
[06:49] <theholyduck> StevenK, like x264 added alot of major features not long ago
[06:49] <theholyduck> "psyvisual" optimizations
[06:50] <dholbach> and it's cool to add features in a new release, no? :)
[06:50] <theholyduck> that instead of trying to replicate how the video looks. you try to replicate how the video SEEMS to the human eye
[06:50] <siretart> StevenK: don't listen to him. lately, ffmpeg tracks API/ABI changes pretty carefully and adds lots of compatibility #ifdefs to avoid SONAME bumps...
[06:51] <theholyduck> siretart, well its still known for breaking things
[06:51] <siretart> theholyduck: whom do you tell that?
[06:52] <theholyduck> dholbach, once you start doing real releases. you start focusing on the releases. and deadlines and stuff. instead of writing new intresting features when you want to write new intresting features
[06:55] <dholbach> I'll give it a rest now - I'm not member of any ffmpeg team, so I don't feel I should discuss their release politics
[06:56] <dholbach> I'm just glad that a lot of projects do manage to do both: have predictability of releases and hack on new features
[06:57]  * theholyduck always used debian unstable/exprimental
[06:57] <theholyduck> predictablillity is overrated
[06:57] <siretart> dholbach: my impression of both ffmpeg and mplayer is that there is a lot of pressure from quite some very talented and good programmers who want to focus on writing code and improving quality instead of focusing on producing something usable for less active projects
[06:58] <siretart> dholbach: which is a pain for distros :-(
[06:58] <siretart> dholbach: but I'm in good contact with ffmpeg upstream about that
[06:58] <theholyduck> siretart, wich is why they reccomend people building their own svns :P
[06:58] <dholbach> as I said... I'm out of the discussion now
[08:49] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone please review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=webstrict ?
[09:58] <dholbach> Toadstool: good you're coming back!
[09:59] <dholbach> everybody give Toadstool a hug!
[09:59]  * dholbach hugs Toadstool
[09:59] <Toadstool> heh :)
[09:59] <Toadstool> hi everybody!
[10:00] <dholbach> hiya bdrung_
[10:43] <Teddy__> ScottK-desktop: Ping?
[11:12] <ScottK> Teddy__: Pong
[11:19] <Teddy__> ScottK: "mandos" 1.0.8-1 has now been uploaded to Debian.
[11:20] <ScottK> OK.  I'll have a look.
[11:20]  * ScottK waves to Toadstool.
[11:21] <Teddy__> Thanks!
[11:28] <Toadstool> heya ScottK
[11:29] <ScottK> Welcome back.
[11:29] <Toadstool> thank you :)
[12:03] <ScottK> Teddy__: Bug #334295
[12:04] <ScottK> That will likely get processed by an archive administrator in the next few days.
[12:08] <Teddy__> ScottK: Cool, thanks!
[12:08] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[12:09] <Teddy__> ScottK: ITYM "wave", not "waive"?
[12:09] <ScottK> Yes.
[12:09] <Teddy__> ScottK: Thanks (got a little confused there). :)
[12:14] <savvas> ScottK: bugs launchpad has commands like bts? is there a tool or a list with those commands?
[12:14] <ScottK> You still need to be registered.
[12:15] <savvas> I am :)
[12:15] <ScottK> Sorry, got confused who I was talking to.
[12:15] <savvas> :P
[12:15] <ScottK> savvas: There is a email interface and there's a help page on it.  I don't recall where.
[12:15] <nhandler> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
[12:16] <savvas> great, thanks nhandler :)
[12:17] <nhandler> You're welcome savvas
[12:24] <pkern> Hi there.  Is it possible nowadays to push things from a PPA into universe?
[12:25] <pochu> pkern: nope
[12:26] <pochu> you have to reupload
[12:26]  * Laney cuts banshee
[12:26] <Laney> ScottK: Can I have your ack #1 to upload a fix?
[12:26] <Laney> (notifications)
[12:27] <ScottK> Bug?
[12:27] <Laney> bug 327640, but I haven't done any paperwork on it
[12:27] <pkern> pochu: *grmbl* Ok.
[12:28]  * soren seems to have missed something.
[12:28] <soren> Laney: Why would you need an ACK for something like that?
[12:28] <Laney> soren: ScottK says so
[12:29] <Laney> I intend to take it to the mailing list, but I want to fix this particular case first
[12:29] <ScottK> soren: Featureful changes need FFes.
[12:29] <soren> ScottK: Ah.
[12:30] <soren> ScottK: I just wondered why he needed an ACK rather than a sponsor.
[12:33]  * pochu still thinks those are bug fixes
[12:33]  * Laney too
[12:33] <Laney> pochu: do you want to kick off a ML thread?
[12:33]  * james_w three
[12:35] <pochu> I already said it in #ubuntu-devel some days ago and in ubuntu-devel@ yesterday
[12:35] <Laney> Consensus from -release would be good

[12:57] <pochu> Laney: do -release think otherwise?
[12:57] <Laney> no, and motu-release seem to think that they do require FFes
[12:57] <Laney> hopefully we can get a standing FFe at the next ubuntu-release meeting
[12:58] <pochu> bah
[12:59] <pochu> they're clearly bug fixes
[13:00] <james_w> I've only heard the opinion of one member of motu-release so far
[13:03] <Laney> james_w: nhandler and DktrKranz agreed in #ubuntu-release when I solicited input
[13:03] <james_w> Laney: agreed that they needed FFe?
[13:03] <Laney> yep
[13:03] <james_w> ok, thanks
[13:04] <Laney> I asked ScottK if he wouldn't mind bringing it up at the next ubuntu-release meeting for a standing FFe (or a dx delegate), but he didn't reply yet
[13:04] <pochu> IMHO the feature is notify-osd, fixing apps to follow the specification are fixes, not features
[13:04] <james_w> when is the next meeting?
[13:04] <Laney> friday
[13:04] <james_w> ok
[13:05] <james_w> we're almost ready to request the FFe for them all anyway
[13:05] <Laney> I'd rather avoid as much of the busy work as possible
[13:05] <james_w> all the ones currently reported sorry
[13:05] <james_w> Laney: well, they've already stated they want busywork IMO
[13:06] <james_w> is the motu-release meeting the best place for that discussion?
[13:06] <Laney> yeah, but getting a blanket exception will reduce it
[13:06] <Laney> this is the ubuntu-release meeting
[13:06] <james_w> ah
[13:06] <pochu> we could promote all of them to main and fix them there, then put them back to universe
[13:06]  * pochu runs :)
[13:07] <Laney> to SAVE paperwork?!
[13:07] <pochu> just kidding ;)
[13:07]  * Laney notes http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/02/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html - slangasek at 15:07
[13:07]  * Laney spies muddy waters
[13:08] <james_w> it's less work for me to promote to main than apply for an FFe :-)
[13:08] <Laney> you and your l33t powers
[13:08] <james_w> not sure I'd risk the wrath of the MIR team though
[13:08] <pochu> what looks weird to me is that they are treated as bug fixes in main but features in universe
[13:09] <pochu> now tell me what new feature you see in this patch: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22833022/notification_check_for_actions_support.patch
[13:09] <asac> please dont misuse main ;)
[13:10] <pochu> asac: archive reorganization FTW :)
[13:10] <asac> notification_check_for_actions_support
[13:10] <asac> ;)
[13:10] <pochu> ?
[13:10] <pochu> is that a new API? :)
[13:11] <asac> pochu: no. thats how the patch is called
[13:11] <asac> pochu: is that in libnotify?
[13:11] <ScottK> Actually the next meeting is next week.  ubuntu-release meetings are every other week.
[13:11] <asac> ah
[13:11] <asac> seems not
[13:11] <Laney> the fridge lies then
[13:12] <pochu> asac: nope, the liferea patch
[13:12] <Laney> "Jaunty Weekly Release Meeting"
[13:12] <james_w> ScottK: how do you want to proceed with this?
[13:12] <ScottK> IMO adding features needs an FFe.
[13:12] <pochu> sure
[13:12] <james_w> ScottK: fine
[13:12] <pochu> but theose are not features!
[13:12] <james_w> ScottK: that's not what I asked
[13:12] <pochu> s/theose/those/
[13:13] <ScottK> My expectation is that Ubuntu Release will give one archive wide, but I'm not aware of them doing so.
[13:13] <james_w> ScottK: at the last ubuntu-release meeting it was stated that these can be considered bug fixes, and you are welcome to re-open that discussion if you like, but you were not present at the time to do so
[13:14] <james_w> ScottK: so would you like to re-open the discussion
[13:14] <ScottK> james_w: They aren't bugs.
[13:14] <james_w> unanimously declare them features?
[13:14] <james_w> grant a blanket exception?
[13:14] <ScottK> They are unless you redfine the words.
[13:14] <james_w> have FFe for each?
[13:14] <ScottK> I'd like to understand how these are going to be maintained.
[13:15] <pochu> ScottK: if you need to check for something but fail to do so, how is not that a bug?
[13:15] <ScottK> pochu: there is no requirement to check.
[13:15] <pochu> and how is *fixing* that to check for the support, a new feature?
[13:15] <pochu> sure there is
[13:15] <pochu> there is a spec
[13:15] <ScottK> Where?
[13:15] <ScottK> There is no approved spec.
[13:15] <pochu> http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/
[13:15] <ScottK> There is an unagreed draft.
[13:15] <pochu> approved by whom?
[13:15] <ScottK> FDO
[13:16] <james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess makes no mention of some requirement for maintainence to be declared
[13:16] <pochu> why should it be in FDO?
[13:16] <james_w> there is a de-facto spec
[13:16] <pochu> it was written by the very same guy who wrote libnotify and notification-daemon
[13:16] <ScottK> james_w: Normally we don't creat permanent divergence from upstream.
[13:16] <pochu> but upstreams are merging them
[13:16] <james_w> ScottK: it is not permanent
[13:16] <pochu> liferea, decibel-audio-player, banshee
[13:16] <ScottK> james_w: How do you know that.
[13:16] <james_w> ScottK: more than half of the current patches are upstream before Ubuntu
[13:16] <pochu> because they are already upstream
[13:17] <ScottK> That's all I want to hear.
[13:17] <Laney> what is the alternative anyway?
[13:17] <pochu> but that's irrelevant
[13:17] <ScottK> I was starting to say I don't see a need for full FFe for there.
[13:17] <ScottK> there/these
[13:17] <pochu> if they are bug fixes, there's no need to request a FFe
[13:17] <Laney> we cannot leave the behaviour as it is
[13:18] <james_w> I think Laney said it best last night, we're not really going to leave things as they are, so requiring two ACKs is silly
[13:18] <pochu> I'm dissapointed we are requiring FFe for this
[13:18] <james_w> you can request a bug documenting what happened if you like
[13:18] <pochu> it looks to me people are trying to block the move because they don't like notify-osd
[13:18] <james_w> pochu: +1
[13:19] <ScottK> I'm dissappointed Canonical dumped this into the archive without really considering the impact on the community.
[13:19] <james_w> I think you are wrong there
[13:19] <ScottK> All I ask is that if these patches go in we have someone committed to maintain them.
[13:19] <ScottK> If they are accepted upstream, that's taken care of.
[13:20] <pochu> but why do that for this and not for other things?
[13:20] <james_w> right, and you sounded satisfied on that point a moment ago
[13:20] <ScottK> james_w: If the changes are upstream, then I'm perfectly fine with them.
[13:20] <james_w> so can we move on from that, and you tell us what we are required to do so we can leave this all behind and move on to other things?
[13:20] <pochu> if they are bug fixes, they can be fixed. there's nothing else to discuss
[13:20] <ScottK> They aren't.
[13:20] <pochu> OK, so we disagree there
[13:20] <ScottK> Changing requirements are features and that's exactly what this is.
[13:21] <pochu> no, this is fixing apps to check for a capability they must check
[13:21] <james_w> "user gets an annoying pop-up" sounds like a bug to me
[13:21] <ScottK> There is no must.
[13:21] <pochu> there is
[13:21] <ScottK> This is all because notify-osd landed at FF.
[13:21] <ScottK> If it had been delivered on a more timely sched, we wouldn't have this discussion.
[13:22] <pochu> sure, but that's orthogonal
[13:22] <pochu> s/sure/maybe/
[13:22] <ScottK> No, if you land features before FF, no FFe is needed.
[13:22] <ScottK> Since notify-osd landed at FF, it makes it rather hard for Universe to accomodate it.
[13:22] <james_w> I think we would have had discussions that would have followed much the same pattern
[13:22] <ScottK> ... before FF.
[13:23] <pochu> I'll mail -motu tonight
[13:23] <pochu> gtg to uni now, later
[13:25] <Laney> I don't want to have to have endless discussions which amount to the same thing
[13:25] <Laney> in the end, we have to implement these fixes one way or another
[13:25] <dholbach> ScottK: can you tell me which problem you're trying to fix at the moment?
[13:29] <ScottK> dholbach: If we are going to land these patches late in the release cycle (and I'm reasonably certain we are), I'd like to ensure that we have someone who is going to mind after them if there are problems.  If that's upstream has accepted the patches and so we can expect them to support the change, that's fine, if it's a community developer that agrees to maintain it, that's fine, if it's Canonical Dx, that's great too, I just don't think we sho
[13:29] <ScottK>  injectling late changes into packages without someone who is paying attention.
[13:31] <dholbach> To me this all sounds like integration fixes and integration is what we do every day.
[13:33] <ScottK> dholbach: I disagree.
[13:35] <james_w> ScottK: "late in the release cycle (and I'm reasonably certain we are)" <- when do you mean?
[13:35] <ScottK> dholbach: I think if you go back and look at the other FFe I've commented on in previous releases, wanting to know who is going to keep track of it and fix it if there's a problem is a pretty consistent theme of mine.
[13:35] <ScottK> james_w: Post FFe is what I'd consider late.  This all should have been done already.
[13:35] <james_w> ScottK: ok
[13:36] <james_w> ScottK: but there's a reason we have FFe.
[13:36] <james_w> ScottK: and to me it feels like you are making it later
[13:36] <ScottK> I don't htink I understand.
[13:37] <ScottK> think even
[13:37] <james_w> I'm still yet to learn what you want to happen
[13:38] <RainCT> james_w: If I've understood him correctly, he wants someone to say «poke me if there's some problem with the patch or it need to be updated for a new release»
[13:38] <Laney> Can I please upload Banshee, given that the fix is upstream?
[13:38] <james_w> RainCT: that's fine
[13:38] <ScottK> Laney: I'm good with that then.
[13:39] <Laney> excellent
[13:39] <ScottK> I have several sets of wants around the notification changes.  The ones that are related to MOTU release involve wanting to make sure that these changes are going to be minded after and we aren't going to be stuck with last minute problems and no one to turn to.
[13:39] <ScottK> Additionally, I'd like for these changes not to be a long term maintenance burden on the community.
[13:40] <Laney> how would you have liked the releasing into the archive to have been different?
[13:40] <james_w> ScottK: so FFe per package?
[13:40] <Laney> (banshee uploaded, thanks)
[13:40] <ScottK> james_w: I think so, but not necessarily a full one (we don't always require that).
[13:40] <james_w> what does that mean?
[13:41] <pkern> http://paste.debian.net/29195/ <-- Is that ok changelog-wise, or will bad things happen when 0.7.15-1 is synced from Debian at some point?
[13:41] <ScottK> Laney: I'd like for there to have been a spec at UDS that was approved through the normal process and then for notify-osd to have landed soon enough for this work to have been done before FF.
[13:42] <dholbach> I disagree - this should be of no concern to MOTU Release - there's still no charter for the team and the FreezeExceptionProcess is all there is. It only speaks about new upstream releases and NEW packages.
[13:42] <RainCT> pkern: it is fine
[13:42] <RainCT> I think
[13:42] <dholbach> If you're really concerned about too much changes on the Ubuntu community's shoulders, you could raise it at a TB meeting or something.
[13:43] <ScottK> dholbach: The freeze is called a feature freeze exception.  Feature has a plain language meaning.
[13:43] <dholbach> Still I think that these are integration fixes.
[13:43] <RainCT> dholbach: +1
[13:44] <pkern> RainCT: Ok, thanks.
[13:45] <james_w> ScottK: could you please explain what a "not full FFe" would be?
[13:46] <ScottK> My main concern is that these changes be supported.
[13:48] <ScottK> I'm not particularly concern about build/install logs.
[13:48] <Laney> have any upstreams refused to accept patches?
[13:49] <Laney> I see no problem with requiring that they are upstreamed first
[13:49] <james_w> Laney: not that I have seen
[13:49] <ScottK> I have no idea.  I'd like to hear that they are upstream or an Ubuntu Dev is willing to deal with them.
[13:49] <james_w> Laney: there is one that has been un-reviewed upstream for a couple of weeks
[13:49] <james_w> ScottK: I would appreciate it if you helped me to understand what to do
[13:50] <james_w> I've already wasted too much time on this
[13:50] <james_w> ScottK: if you want me to just file a bunch of FFes in the normal manner then just say so
[13:50] <ScottK> james_w: Do you have a package for one of these notification patches pending?
[13:50] <ScottK> I do.
[13:51] <james_w> I'll live with the extra hassle so that users can get these fixes
[13:51] <dholbach> I still don't think it's the MOTU Release team's call to do so.
[13:51] <ScottK> dholbach: Who's is it then?
[13:51] <james_w> dholbach: can we postpone this discussion for a few minutes please?
[13:51] <james_w> I'd like to fix the problem, then we can discuss the issue
[13:52] <dholbach> james_w: ok... ping me in a bit then
[13:52] <Laney> How about, in the case where a bug is upstream but not reviewed yet, a MOTU may upload if he/she commits to merge if the committed patch is different?
[13:52]  * dholbach needs to finish a letter
[13:53] <ScottK> Laney: and also to watch the package for bug reports and deal with regressions.
[13:54] <ScottK> I'm more worried about that for this cycle than if the eventual upstream solution is different.
[13:55] <ScottK> dholbach: I don't think I'm doing anything that's not inherent in motu-release processes FFe for Universe/Multiverse, so I don't see as there's really anything to discuss.
[13:55] <savvas> tonyyarusso: here? are you willing to work on packaging the new version of kompozer? There's a new package at Debian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=406553 http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/k/kompozer/
[13:57] <james_w> ScottK: you are using your definition of feature to select what things you have to review for one thing
[13:57] <ScottK> james_w: Certainly, but what else could I do?
[13:57] <james_w> ScottK: use the uploader's definition of feature?
[13:58] <james_w> ScottK: use the general consensus?
[14:01] <ScottK> All I'm asking is that these are sent upstream and there is someone who agrees to watch over the packages in question for problems.  If there's a consensus against that, I should just quit.
[14:01] <james_w> I don't see why that's any different to any other change
[14:02] <ScottK> Because it's being driven by Ubuntu unique requirements.
[14:02] <RainCT> I think being responsible for your changes (in case they case breakage) is implicit with uploading the package
[14:02] <james_w> ScottK: that's not what I meant
[14:02] <james_w> I meant we should have that for every change
[14:02] <ScottK> That's why it's different.
[14:03] <RainCT> *case=cause
[14:03] <ScottK> RainCT: I agree, but that's not consistent among developers.
[14:04] <ScottK> james_w: I see from my bugmail that I'm now in a minority of motu-release in thinking these are features.
[14:05] <ScottK> So while I still think it's wrong, I'll desist.
[14:05] <slytherin> persia: do you have any idea if visualvm builds with latest netbeans packages? If it does then that should knock out 3 packages from NBS list.
[14:05] <RainCT> If there are developers uploading broken stuff and not caring about it, we have a more serious issue
[14:06] <ScottK> RainCT: I agree.  When I notice it I do chase after people.
[14:11] <james_w> ScottK: so I am free to upload?
[14:11] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[14:11] <ScottK> james_w: Yes.
[14:11] <james_w> ScottK: thanks
[14:12] <Laney> glad we got there in the end
[14:13] <Laney> ScottK: And I do think you have a point about it landing sooner, and the potential community implications this has. I'd be interested if you were to raise this to some kind of governing body to see if lessons can be learned
[14:13] <ScottK> RainCT: For webboard it sounds from your bug like it's currently in a 'not working' state.  Is that correct?
[14:13] <ScottK> Laney: The response has been "It was discussed at UDS so you all should have known it was coming."
[14:13] <RainCT> ScottK: It works, but you have to manually change the language every time
[14:14] <RainCT> it's only the "Plain text" entry which is broken
[14:14] <ScottK> Laney: Unfortunately for those of us that didn't go to UDS, none of the notifications related discussions were remotely accessible.
[14:14] <ScottK> RainCT: Thanks.
[14:14] <Laney> yep
[14:14] <RainCT> ScottK is right here. I hadn't heard anything about it neither, until it came up on Mark's blog.
[14:15] <Laney> Perhaps the TB or CC would be interested in hearing some views
[14:15] <iulian> Hi sistpoty.
[14:15] <sistpoty|work> hi iulian
[14:15] <ScottK> I think they're getting an earful on the ML already.
[14:16] <RainCT> heh
[14:17] <RainCT> ScottK: (btw, I think I'll get the webboard upload in through Debian, if I find a sponsor soon -which shouldn't be a problem with PAPT :)-)
[14:17] <ScottK> Great.
[14:17] <ScottK> I ack'ed it in mail.
[14:17] <RainCT> ScottK: Thanks :)
[14:18]  * RainCT is off to school now.. Will be back in 2-3 hours
[14:18] <ScottK> JFTR, I'd have been happier if Python 2.6 landed earlier too, but at least we had a spec for that.
[14:20] <Laney> is debian moving to 2.6 any time soon?
[14:21] <ScottK> Soonish, but not soon enough to give us much help for Jaunty.
[14:22] <Laney> fair
[14:22] <slytherin> If a package was synced from debian-mutimedia, has not been updated after warty, and is not present in debian-multimedia now, is it good candidate for removal?
[14:23] <Laney> ScottK: I see you're in the modules team. You might be interested in the patch on bug 332053 - installability of nevow is broken with 2.6
[14:23] <pkern> Oh and does Ubuntu indeed miss debtags completely?  Then goplay should be removed.  At least on intrepid it didn't work at all to lookup something with it.
[14:24] <slytherin> pkern: just because it doesn't work does not mean it should be removed.
[14:25] <pkern> *sigh*
[14:25] <mok0> pkern: on the contrary, it should be made to work
[14:25] <mok0> pkern: and we should use it
[14:26] <pkern> mok0: As debtags is very much infrastructurial, i.e. I think would need Launchpad support...
[14:26] <pkern> Hm, or maybe the tag DB is still separate.  Let's try it.
[14:26] <mok0> pkern: probably. LP should be using it
[14:28] <mok0> pkern, bug 3945
[14:28] <pkern> Old.  Very old.
[14:28] <mok0> pkern: sadly sp
[14:28] <mok0> so
[14:29] <ScottK> Hopefully as debtags get more momentum in Debian the priority will rise in LP.
[14:29] <mok0> ScottK, yes
[14:30] <slytherin> Can anyone please answer my question - ﻿If a package was synced from debian-mutimedia, has not been updated after warty, and is not present in debian-multimedia now, is it good candidate for removal?
[14:30] <mok0> 3945 even has "medium" importance
[14:31] <Laney> slytherin: does it still work?
[14:31] <mok0> slytherin: what do _you_ think?
[14:31] <Laney> is the functionality elsewhere? what is the popcon score? is there a new upstream version that we could update to?
[14:32] <mok0> slytherin: ... and most importantly, is it maintained upstream?
[14:36] <slytherin> Ok. The tools is cpvts. The functionality is available in other package (vobcopy, dvdbackup). The tools is not maintained upstream since 2003. So IMHO it is a candidate for removal.
[14:37] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable to me.
[14:38] <slytherin> filing a bug
[14:52] <mok0> ScottK, only 1 FTBFS left for r-cran-*
[14:53] <ScottK> mok0: Great.
[14:53] <mok0> ScottK, but a strange one
[14:54] <mok0> Error: package 'maps' required by 'mapdata' could not be found
[14:54] <ScottK> Dunno.
[14:54] <mok0> I'll see if I can find out where "maps" should come from
[15:00] <sistpoty|work> james_w: did you mean to subscribe motu-sru instead of motu-release for bug #86685?
[15:01] <james_w> sistpoty|work: I think I did that last cycle
[15:02] <sistpoty|work> james_w: oh, I see... no... seems like you actually subscribed motu-release during last cycle *g*
[15:02]  * sistpoty|work unsubscribe motu-release
[15:03] <sistpoty|work> that's really funny, I guess I noticed only now, because someone posted a comment to an old bug... how irritating
[15:05] <mok0> ScottK, apparently it's missing a build-depends, but why did the other archs succeed? I am puzzled
[15:05] <ScottK> Odd.
[15:05] <savvas> mok0: package?
[15:06] <mok0> r-cran-mapdata
[15:06] <mok0> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/r-cran-mapdata/2.0-22-1/+build/779326
[15:07] <savvas> maybe it's the way it looks for the package?
[15:08] <mok0> savvas: perhaps
[15:08]  * savvas looks
[15:17] <RoAkSoAx> heya guys, we have to put XSBC-Original-Maintainer on the control file always right?
[15:18] <Adri2000> if you're introducing ubuntu changes in the package yes
[15:19] <Adri2000> put the debian maintainer in there, and put the appropriate ubuntu team as maintainer
[15:19] <RoAkSoAx> thnks :)
[15:19] <Adri2000> (see update-maintainer in ubuntu-dev-tools for doing that with one command :))
[15:19] <slytherin> RoAkSoAx: more appropriately, use update-maintainer script from ubuntu-dev-tools package
[15:20] <mok0> ScottK, I get the same build failure on my sbuilder. Perhaps the missing package was installed on the buildd's for some freak reason
[15:20] <mok0> ScottK, except for one
[15:21] <ScottK> Odd.  Or maybe some build-dep of this package depended on it and then dropped it so this got build without due to archive skew.
[15:21] <RoAkSoAx> slytherin, i'm packaging from scratch an setting XSBC-Original-Maintainer to myself and Maintainer to MOTU devs.
[15:21] <mok0> ScottK, yes
[15:22] <slytherin> RoAkSoAx: right
[15:22] <mok0> ScottK, it builds for intrepid
[15:24] <mok0> ScottK, the package wasn't compiled for jaunty on the other platforms; only armel was added
[15:26] <ScottK> Sounds like a missing depends then.
[15:33] <mok0> hah, lintian dies on the source package!!
[15:36] <savvas> mok0: I think it has something to do with the file R/zzz.R (or maybe not)
[15:36] <mok0> savvas: on the system?
[15:37] <savvas> well the way I understood it, it gets the maps package from there
[15:37] <savvas> its location I mean
[15:37] <mok0> savvas: the problem is that it's not installed
[15:37] <mok0> savvas: it used to be (apparently)
[15:38] <savvas> oh.. so it needs r-cran-maps ?:P
[15:38] <mok0> savvas: that solves it
[15:38] <mok0> savvas: I haven't figured out why it didn't need it before... but the package hasn't been compiled since hardy on the other platforms
[15:38] <savvas> how come it builds for debian? https://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=r-cran-mapdata :\
[15:39] <mok0> savvas: don't know, but those builds are old too
[15:40] <savvas> ah wait, you're right, I think it's not built for armel yet
[15:41] <ScottK> mok0: You might toss that package as is at a PPA and see what happens.
[15:42] <mok0> ScottK, ... what would that do?
[15:42] <mok0> ScottK, I don't follow
[15:43] <mok0> ScottK, ah, you mean it would fail on all archs?
[15:43] <ScottK> If it builds on the archs it built on before, then you have a mystery.  If it FTBFS then you know you have an archive skew issue and a missing builddep
[15:43] <ScottK> Yes
[15:43] <mok0> ScottK, it builds on jaunty when I add the build-depends, so should I just upload it?
[15:44] <ScottK> I think that's reasonable and then I'd mail the Debian maintainer and ask.
[15:44] <mok0> ScottK, right, will do that
[15:47] <james_w> is anyone with a CD drive able to get goobox to do anything?
[15:52] <savvas> james_w: tried with a dvd-rw drive, used an audio cd, sound juicer works, but goobox says "invalid device"
[15:54] <james_w> savvas: yeah, me too
[15:59] <hggdh> dholbach, ping
[15:59] <dholbach> hggdh: about to have a call in just a bit
[15:59] <hggdh> dholbach, np
[15:59] <dholbach> hggdh: if it's about libpst - can you ask seb128 please?
[16:00] <dholbach> ... or wait :)
[16:00] <hggdh> dholbach, yes, I have, and he proposed one more change -- already done
[16:00] <hggdh> dholbach, I will wait ;-)
[16:00] <dholbach> if seb is cool with it, I'm a too
[16:00] <hggdh> dholbach, he is. I am just unsure on what to do now... I will wait for you
[16:01] <dholbach> hggdh: ask him to sponsor it :)
[16:11] <hggdh> dholbach, will do
[16:12] <dholbach> rock on
[16:18]  * skorasaurus is away: Away
[16:58] <LaserJock> c_korn: ping
[16:58] <c_korn> pong
[16:59] <LaserJock> c_korn: I'm looking at scilab and sivp
[17:00] <LaserJock> c_korn: the debdiff you put on the sivp bug has a lot of .svn junk
[17:00] <LaserJock> generally it's good to remove VCS files from a source package
[17:01] <c_korn> LaserJock: the .svn directory is in the debian directory. not in my package I uploaded to revu
[17:01] <c_korn> with debian directory I actually mean the debian directory in the debian package :P
[17:02] <LaserJock> c_korn: ah, ok
[17:03] <LaserJock> c_korn: is mok0 going to upload scilab and sivp if the FFe are approved?
[17:06] <c_korn> ehm, I think so
[17:06] <c_korn> he also pushed jeuclid in the jaunty queue
[17:07] <LaserJock> c_korn: I've ack'd both bugs and he's assigned to them
[17:07] <LaserJock> c_korn: so poke him about uploading ;-)
[17:09] <c_korn> well, jeuclid has to go into jaunty before scilab can be compiled
[17:09] <c_korn> and scilab has to go into jaunty before sivp can be compiled
[17:10] <LaserJock> c_korn: they can all get uploaded at the same time though
[17:10] <LaserJock> c_korn: and they'll just debwait until the others have built
[17:11] <c_korn> ah, great
[17:22] <slytherin> doko: do you think it is time to kill the openjdk build on armel? It has been running for 6 days now.
[17:23] <doko> slytherin: does it hurt you? the buildds seem to keep up
[17:24] <slytherin> doko: no it does hurt me anyway.
[17:24] <doko> I know, it's slow
[17:26] <a|wen-> if anyone wants to help finally getting aRts kicked out of the archive; three small debdiff's avaible at the bottom of bug 320915 still needs a sponsor
[17:27] <slytherin> doko: looking at the logs, it looks like the tests (assuming unit tests) have very large timeout value.
[17:28] <ScottK> a|wen-: I thought we were done?
[17:29] <a|wen-> ScottK: I thought so too, but there were some build-depends left
[17:29] <doko> apparently the timeout value is not big enough
[17:29] <ScottK> Ah.
[17:30] <a|wen-> ScottK: some dangling build-depends i presume? as no arts-stuff was included in the real depends
[17:30] <ScottK> That'd make sense.
[17:31] <ScottK> It seems the old kde.mk config settings pulled it in for everything.
[17:31] <geser> a|wen-: I will take care of the sponsoring for the three debdiffs
[17:32] <a|wen-> geser: thanks a lot!
[17:33] <a|wen-> ScottK: none of them has kde.mk referenced in debian/rules ... would it then have any effect?
[17:33] <ScottK> No.  That's not it then.
[17:35] <geser> a|wen-: what's the connection of mcopidl to arts? (currently looking at the ktimetrace debdiff)
[17:36] <a|wen-> geser: mcop = Multimedia Communication Protocol, an arts component
[17:43] <geser> a|wen-: I see that two packages are KDE3 programs. Do they still work with KDE4? (/me is no KDE user)
[17:44] <ScottK> geser: If they only depend on kdelibs they should be fine.
[17:44] <a|wen-> geser: they start and the gui works for me ... one is for collecting data from some serial-devices (or something like that) so couldn't test that part
[17:57]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[18:00] <geser> a|wen-: all three debdiffs sponsored
[18:01] <a|wen-> thanks a lot geser!
[18:26] <mrooney> Can anyone take a peek at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/333639 and see if there is anything else I should do?
[18:27] <mrooney> I am not sure what the normal response time should be from u-u-s
[18:28] <Laney> longer than a day ;)
[18:30] <james_w> mrooney: please attach the .diff.gz from your updated package to the bug
[18:30] <james_w> mrooney: the diff you have attached has "Binary file changed" in it, so applying it won't give the new file
[18:32] <mrooney> james_w: okay so do I use the version in jaunty as the .orig.tar.gz and then the updated version as the extracted? Is that what you mean?
[18:33] <james_w> mrooney: no
[18:33] <james_w> mrooney: if you build an updated source package, based on 0.4.1.0
[18:33] <james_w> you will have a wxbanker_0.4.1.0-0ubuntu1.diff.gz file
[18:33] <james_w> that's what we need
[18:34] <james_w> we will download the 0.4.1.0 tarball and combine it with that to get the updated package
[18:34] <james_w> then create diffs to review as needed
[18:45] <mrooney> james_w: hm okay, I'll give it a try. I don't understand what the diff.gz will contain but I'll find out!
[18:46] <james_w> heh
[18:47] <mrooney> james_w: isn't the diff.gz what is different from the orig.tar.gz?
[18:47] <a|wen-> mrooney: the diff.gz is all changes we have to the upstream tarball ... whereas the debdiff is an incremental changeset
[18:55] <mrooney> james_w: yeah I am still confused. I downloaded the upstream tarball, extracted, and debuild -S but I obviously don't get the diff.gz from the ubuntu version.
[18:55] <mrooney> what am I missing? (sorry, I am new to this :)
[18:55] <james_w> mrooney: you've got to add the packaging
[18:56] <james_w> mrooney: presumably you updated the packaging when you did this originally?
[18:56] <mrooney> james_w: well the packaging is already there, already up to date for 0.4.1.0
[18:56] <james_w> is that shipped in the upstream tarball?
[18:56] <mrooney> james_w: yeah
[18:56] <james_w> that'll be why then
[18:56] <mrooney> ah
[18:57] <mrooney> yeah the upstream tarball is literally ready to build and upload
[18:57] <mrooney> do I need to change something?
[18:57] <mrooney> I plan on moving the packaging to a different branch in the 0.5 series
[18:57] <mrooney> that seems saner perhaps
[18:59] <james_w> that is ok
[18:59] <james_w> though you may get complaints :-)
[19:00] <mrooney> james_w: yeah, at the time I thought it would make everything way easier for MOTU if it was all in one place
[19:00] <mrooney> now I have learned :)
[19:01] <mrooney> so what should I do now? Use the one in jaunty now as the orig?
[19:02] <james_w> nope
[19:02] <james_w> that would just be confusing
[19:02] <RainCT> (lol.. Just found this http://utils.eurion.net/hosted/bug_sebner.png on my webspace.. those were times XDD)
[19:05] <mrooney> james_w: ah okay, is there something I *should* do then?
[19:06] <james_w> mrooney: I don't think so
[19:06] <mrooney> james_w: okay thanks, I'll just wait :)
[20:07] <RainCT> Adri2000: is it merged? \o/
[20:09] <Adri2000> RainCT: merged into Keybuk's branch, and the server just got mod_python support enabled. last thing to do is to push the branch to production :)
[20:11] <RainCT> Adri2000: awesome, that was about time! :)
[20:12] <RainCT> Adri2000: can I use that module I had for the UI?
[20:17] <Adri2000> RainCT: that module?
[20:17] <RainCT> Adri2000: I don't even remember myself what it was.. :P
[20:18] <RainCT> Adri2000: well, I'll reformulate: if I get the new UI ready, what are the odds that it will be merged in less than a year? :P
[20:18] <savvas> anyone using flashplugin-nonfree ? do you get an md5sum error when you install it?
[20:18] <RainCT> savvas: I reinstalled it yesterday in Intrepid and it worked fine
[20:19] <jpds> Don't we use adobe-flashplugin now?
[20:20] <savvas> bug 173890 is reopened
[20:21] <savvas> jpds: isn't adobe-flashplugin in archive.canonical.com ?
[20:21] <savvas> I think it's considered third-party and not checked by default
[20:22]  * savvas bbl
[20:24] <Adri2000> RainCT: eheh, I hope it'll be easier than it's been for the comments...
[20:44] <tonyyarusso> savvas: Yeah, I've been speaking with the guy who was working on the Debian package.  I am hoping to get it put together for Ubuntu soon.
[21:28] <mdke> hiya. Can someone help me with signing a package - I get the error http://paste.ubuntu.com/123023/ and as far as I know my secret key is present and working ok
[21:35] <maxb> mdke: run "gpg --list-secret-keys" and check whether the EXACT uid "Matthew East <mdke@ubuntu.com>" is present
[21:36] <mdke> maxb: ah, that must be the problem
[21:36] <mdke> maxb: mine says Matthew East (Ubuntu) <mdke@ubuntu.com>
[21:37] <mdke> I'll try and edit that I guess
[21:37] <mdke> thanks!
[22:07] <maco> using debuild to make a .dsc so i can make a debdiff to close a bug. debuild's lintian says the standards version is out of date. does this have to be updated?
[22:07] <maco> (not in general, but rather...now)
[22:19] <maxb> No - For a package synced from Debian, Ubuntu doesn't change Standards-Version at all.
[22:44] <jamesrfla> Vote for nhandler!!!
[22:44] <Laney> what am i missing?
[22:46] <jpds> Laney: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls
[22:46] <Laney> aha
[22:46] <Laney> was there an email?
[22:46] <nhandler> Laney: Not yet
[22:46] <nhandler> Polls open in 15 minutes though
[22:46] <Laney> I demand hustings
[22:47] <Laney> and campaigning
[22:47] <pochu> nhandler: were you jamesrfla with a different nick? :P
[22:47] <Nafallo> 1h...
[22:47] <Nafallo> ;-)
[22:47] <nhandler> pochu: No
[22:47] <pochu> I guessed ;)
[22:48] <nhandler> Laney: Why do we need campaigning? We are not competing against each other
[22:48] <Laney> oh?
[22:48] <Laney> in that case I want an email even more
[22:48] <nhandler> They are expanding the MC to 7 people
[22:48] <nhandler> Laney: Read the Tech Board meeting logs from the other day
[22:48] <ajmitch> why are 7 people needed?
[22:48] <nhandler> Although I agree, an email would be nice
[22:49] <RainCT> Wow, 3 candidates I like :)
[22:49] <nhandler> ajmitch: I'm not really sure what caused that decision. Although I do know they are trying to get some non-canonical people on the MC
[22:49] <RainCT> oh
[22:49] <RainCT> Great, so I don't have to decide between one of them :9
[22:50] <RainCT> s/:9/:)
[22:50] <Laney> RainCT: you fail at reading the preceding lines!
[22:50] <RainCT> Laney: you too :D
[22:50] <Nafallo> jpds: did you just fall of the jabber?
[22:50] <Laney> RainCT: No, I fail at reading IRClogs
[22:51] <Laney> minutes from the TB haven't been sent out yet
[22:51]  * ajmitch shall have to dig up the TB meeting logs, since they haven't been posted
[22:51] <nhandler> Laney: But the IRC logs are available on irclogs.ubuntu.com
[22:51] <Laney> right
[22:51] <ajmitch> amongst several other meetings
[22:52] <RainCT> well, good night all
[22:52] <nhandler> Night RainCT
[22:53] <RainCT> nhandler: btw, I'm waiting for an email from you :P
[22:56]  * ajmitch still can't find the appropriate meeting log
[22:57] <nhandler> ajmitch: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/02/24/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
[22:57] <ajmitch> thanks
[23:03]  * ajmitch wonders if he should vote
[23:03] <Laney> hmm, weird
[23:03] <Laney> the selection process doesn't seem very transparent
[23:03] <ajmitch> it's not
[23:04] <nhandler> I agree. The first part (request for nominations) was fine. But after that, there really haven't been any updates
[23:04] <ajmitch> you get the right to approve/disapprove of the candidates listed
[23:09] <maco> you know the wtf command in bsdgames that defines acronyms for you? dholbach found this morning that it doesn't know how to define twss, so i filed a bug and attached a debdiff. is this something that requires an FFe?
[23:10] <maco> its adding 1 line to a text file, not code
[23:10] <ScottK> I'd say not.
[23:11] <maco> ScottK: so does that mean universe-sponsors or universe-release or um...who to subscribe?
[23:12] <ScottK> Universe sponsors
[23:13] <maco> ok then
[23:13] <maco> bug 334574 is waiting then
[23:15] <james_w> maco: would you forward the change to Debian please?
[23:15] <nhandler> james_w: I was just about to request the same thing ;)
[23:16] <james_w> we're like a broken record :-)
[23:16] <maco> james_w: er...i dont know how to do debian's rules
[23:16] <james_w> it's even QA maintained, so you could get it uploaded there :-)
[23:16] <maco> like i know the maintainer changes when going from debian to ubuntu
[23:16] <james_w> maco: for something like this just sending the bug is fine
[23:17] <maco> but debuild wont let me do it as just debian-way (without changing the maintainer)
[23:17] <maco> oh ok
[23:17] <james_w> maco: someone should be able to work out how to add the necessary line :-)
[23:17] <maco> heh :
[23:17] <nhandler> maco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers#Forwarding%20bug%20reports
[23:17] <maco> *:{
[23:17] <maco> bah i fail at typing!
[23:17] <maco> :P
[23:19] <maco> oh hey it explains the control file shtuffs
[23:23] <maco> james_w: how does one login to bts? i see no login link on bugs.debian.org
[23:23] <maco> i assume forwarding a bug involves logging in
[23:23] <james_w> maco: heh, seems like that page needs a little bit of work :-)
[23:24] <maco> is it to force you to look for dups before logging in?
[23:24] <james_w> oh, it does link to http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
[23:24] <james_w> no, there is no login
[23:24] <james_w> everything is done by mail
[23:25] <james_w> "reportbug -B debian bsdgames" will get you started
[23:25] <maco> ooh you can tell reportbug that you're not talking to ubuntu this time? well that's helpful
[23:26] <maco> LOL at this bug: bsdgames: number claims English output, but outputs in Americ
[23:32] <maco> james_w: i made a -0ubuntu1 package for spim in ubuntu. i should also send that to debian too now, but what should i say?
[23:32] <maco> i assume needs-packaging goes to the bts as well
[23:33] <nhandler> maco: Ask them to upgrade to the latest upstream version of the package
[23:33] <maco> well it was removed from debian's archive completely
[23:33] <maco> it was unmaintained
[23:34] <nhandler> maco: Are you planning on maintaining the package?
[23:34] <maco> sure
[23:34] <james_w> maco: what you need to do is send an "RFS", which is like requesting sponsorship in Ubuntu, but outside the BTS
[23:34] <nhandler> maco: See if there is a bug filed against wnpp regarding that package
[23:34] <james_w> they have the equivalent of needs-packaging, called ITP
[23:34] <james_w> (and RFP)
[23:34] <maco> er...
[23:35] <nhandler> ITP=Intent to Package and RFP=Request for Package
[23:35] <james_w> as nhandler says, these are bugs against the "wnpp" package
[23:35] <maco> so which of those TLAs is the thing to do?
[23:35] <maco> wnpp?
[23:35] <james_w> "reportbug -B debian wnpp" knows how to handle these
[23:35] <maco> cheating, with those 4-letter acronyms....
[23:35] <james_w> sorry about the acronyms :-)
[23:35] <maco> actually, THERE's some to check
[23:35] <maco> $ wtf rfp
[23:35] <maco> Gee...  I don't know what rfp means...
[23:36] <james_w> wnpp is for something like "work needed on packages package" or something equally bizarre
[23:37] <maco> ok so slowly and in the proper order.....
[23:37] <maco> file a wnpp bug with ITP in the title?
[23:37] <james_w> yeah
[23:37] <james_w> reportbug will give you a menu of the possible choices and get the template right for you
[23:38] <james_w> that's like filling a needs-packaging bug and assigning to yourself
[23:38] <nhandler_> maco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Abbreviations
[23:38] <james_w> once that is done you can make your package ready for Debian
[23:38] <james_w> and then send an "RFS" (request for sponsorship) to the debian-mentors@lists.debian.org list
[23:39] <james_w> where an interested DD would pick it up, review it, and possibly upload it
[23:39] <james_w> so it works a bit like REVU, but over email
[23:39] <james_w> there is mentors.debian.net where you can host a package for review like REVU, but you should still send the email
[23:39] <maco> ok
[23:39] <james_w> feel free to ask again if that's a bit much in one go :-0
[23:40] <nhandler> There is also a #debian-mentors channel on irc.oftc.net
[23:40] <maco> HOLY!
[23:41] <maco> why is reportbug asking me about 2792 outstanding bugs?
[23:41] <james_w> heh
[23:41] <nhandler> Probably to verify it isn't a duplicate
[23:41] <james_w> one of the options is "skip this, I know it's not there"
[23:41]  * directhex reckons an unupdate-maintainer could be helpful for applying ubuntu patches to debian
[23:41] <james_w> if you already searched on the web interface
[23:46] <Laney> directhex: I thought about this todayyyyyyyyyy
[23:46] <Laney> submitttttttdebbbbiaaaannnnnnn should do it
[23:46] <Laney> GASH
[23:46] <Laney> spot the broken keyboard
[23:46] <pochu> haha
[23:46]  * pochu waves good night
[23:46] <RAOF> Is that gash in your leg really wide?
[23:47] <nhandler> Night pochu
[23:47] <nhandler> Talk about nice planning. Launchpad will be going offline just as the MC vote begins
[23:48]  * Laney grumbles at 0ubuntu1s
[23:49] <directhex> Laney, they're ever so polite, especially with sid in full swing ¬_¬
[23:51] <Laney> tell me about it
[23:51] <ajmitch> Laney: what do you have against them?
[23:53] <Laney> I would rather they were done in Debian
[23:53] <ajmitch> I'm sure ubuntu doesn't have that many packages which don't exist in debian :)
[23:53] <RAOF> Laney: Of course, the fact that gnome is uninstallable in Sid makes 0ubuntu1s a bit more palatable.
[23:53] <Laney> ajmitch: I mean updating to new upstream releases in divergance from Debian
[23:54] <ajmitch> Laney: just because debian was frozen for a year or so
[23:54] <Laney> RAOF: Yeah, but team-maintained packages can always be staged in VCS
[23:54] <RAOF> Right.  Which is what I've done for beagle; but that's still a 0ubuntu1, because it can't be uploaded to sid.
[23:54] <Laney> of course
[23:55] <ajmitch> so what's the plan for getting all these dumped over the fence into sid?
[23:56] <Laney> ajmitch: I appreciate that. My problem is when we do such a diversion without consulting maintainers
[23:56] <Laney> I'd rather Ubuntu developers personally worked with Debian maintainers to get  0ubuntu1s turned into -1s
[23:56] <Laney> s/rather/like it if/
[23:57] <Laney> now that they are out of freeze
[23:57] <ajmitch> of course, then they'd stand a much higher chance of not just being neglected & being yet another merge to botch
[23:58] <directhex> debian NEW is a valid reason for 0ubuntu1
[23:58] <Laney> "Are you planning on updating foo to version frobble soon? We'd like the new version in Ubuntu and if you aren't then I am happy to do the work and forward you the changes."
[23:58] <directhex> on a related note, has anyone sponsored monodevelop-debugger-* yet? :p
[23:58]  * ajmitch hasn't