[00:00] <ghostcube> hmm new nvidia driver fixes sys tray icon garbage here
[00:00] <ghostcube> oO
[00:02] <ghostcube> foget it it doesnt lol
[00:02] <shtylman> Riddell: ok...would you like me to add the os notice? also...should I put the after bar below the options? I don't really like that
[00:02] <ghostcube> but it i sbetter than before
[00:04] <Riddell> shtylman: I think the os notice would be nice.  I agree the after bar shouldn't be split up from the before bar (and they should have labels to actually say what they are)
[00:11] <seele> can anyone tell me what this means and how i fix it: E: Build-Depends dependency for kblogger-kde4 cannot be satisfied because no available versions of package kdebase-dev-kde4 can satisfy version requirements
[00:12] <seele> from this: sudo apt-get build-dep kblogger-kde4
[00:13] <codecyphix> do you experimental repositories
[00:14] <seele> this one? deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-experimental/ubuntu intrepid main
[00:15] <Riddell> it means that kblogger-kde4 hasn't been touched since hardy and uses all the temporary kde4 package names that no longer exist
[00:16] <seele> hum, i wonder why he told me to do that if it wasnt going to work
[00:16] <seele> can't really look at his app now, can i
[00:16] <seele> damnit
[00:17] <Riddell> what are you trying to do?
[00:18] <seele> following instructions from a developer to get whatever i need to compile kblogger from svn
[00:19] <seele> this is what he gave me:
[00:19] <seele> apt-get build-dep kblogger-kde4
[00:19] <seele> cd /YOURBUILDDIROFCHOICE
[00:19] <seele> svn svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/pim/kblogger
[00:19] <seele> cd kblogger
[00:19] <seele> make
[00:19] <seele> sudo make install
[00:20] <rgreening> seele, you can try apt-get source kblogger-kde4
[00:21] <seele> booooo
[00:21] <seele> sh: dpkg-source: not found
[00:21] <seele> Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x kblogger-kde4_1.0~alpha2-0ubuntu3.dsc' failed.
[00:21] <rgreening> then get the svn, then cp the debian dir into a svn export of the svn dir. and do: a debuild -S -sa
[00:21] <seele> Check if the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed.
[00:21] <seele> E: Child process failed
[00:21] <rgreening> lol
[00:21] <rgreening> hmm...
[00:21] <rgreening> let me try something here
[00:22] <Riddell> seele: apt-get install cdbs cmake debhelper kdebase-dev kdebase-workspace-dev kdelibs5-dev kdepimlibs5-dev libkipi0-dev quilt
[00:22] <Riddell> svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/pim/kblogger
[00:22] <Riddell> cd kblogger
[00:22] <Riddell> mkdir build
[00:22] <Riddell> cd build
[00:23] <Riddell> cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr -DDATA_INSTALL_DIR=/usr/share/kde4 ..
[00:23] <Riddell> make
[00:23] <Riddell> sudo make install
[00:23] <Riddell> probably
[00:23]  * seele tries before she thanks :P
[00:24] <seele> erm..
[00:24] <seele> The following packages have unmet dependencies: libkipi0-dev: Depends: libkipi0 (= 0.1.6-1ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[00:24] <seele> E: Broken packages
[00:24] <Riddell> seele: libkipi6-dev
[00:25] <seele> this is why doing anything design related pre-release in open source is a pain in the ass
[00:25]  * seele tries again
[00:25] <seele> whoo, 152 new packages to install..
[00:25] <seele> gonna be a while before i know if i can thank you or not :P
[00:26]  * seele checks the space available in /
[00:26] <maco> apt-get clean time?
[00:27] <maco> oh wait i should check that too
[00:27] <maco> 862m available space on /
[00:27] <seele> maco: i do it after every update
[00:27] <maco> i need to switch to lvm
[00:28] <maco> so that when i do silly things like have gnome and kde on a pre-release machine that gets hundreds of megs of updates a day i dont fill it up
[00:28] <maco> 10gb is a fine / partition...if you only have one DE
[00:35] <rgreening> seele: hows the download going?
[00:35] <seele> rgreening: building at the moment *crosses fingers*
[00:36] <rgreening> I just made a package up. I'll upload to my PPA assuming the package works here :)
[00:36] <rgreening> seele: ^
[00:36] <nhandler> rgreening: LP is down right now. You might need to wait until it comes back online to push to your PPA
[00:37] <seele> it.. looks like it works! yay
[00:37] <seele> Riddell: thanks for the help ;P
[00:38] <rgreening> cool
[00:39] <seele> hmm.. what an interesting piece of software
[00:39] <maco> of qt software?
[00:39] <rgreening> seele: is it better than the hardy version? cause it had issues back then
[00:39]  * seele makes dinner before investing the remaining night 
[00:39] <seele> rgreening: dunno, apparently he's been working on it, that's why he asked me to look at it
[00:40] <rgreening> cool. cause I need it. konq fails to work with blogspot.
[00:41] <rgreening> seele: test building a deb package now.
[00:42] <rgreening> works.
[00:42] <rgreening> Uploaded to my PPA
[00:45] <rgreening> seele: auto-configure didn't work. complains about io-slave
[00:46] <rgreening> nm. apparantly you have to put in http:// in the URL.
[00:48] <rgreening> seele: segfault/core dump when retrieving my last 10 articles from online.
[00:52] <vorian> dude, what's wrong with quicklaunch?
[00:52] <vorian> the icons are like 4x4 pixels
[00:54] <maco> vorian: make it bigger?
[00:56] <rgreening> seele: it certainly is crashy :)
[00:57] <rgreening> vorian, maco: yeah, that patch fixed the crash but broke the usability of the applet.
[00:57] <rgreening> maybe 4.2.1 will fix it correctly
[00:57] <vorian> er, which patch?
[00:58] <vorian> you and your fancy 4.5
[00:59] <rgreening> lol.
[00:59] <vorian> :)
[01:00] <rgreening> kde broke plasma to make ot work with qt 4.4. now we have qt 4.5 and they have to unbreak plasma.
[01:00] <rgreening> we backported some patches to accomplish this.
[01:00] <rgreening> Im hoping 4.2.1 has the patches and working.
[01:00] <ScottK> ghostcube: Are you on intrepid?
[01:01] <ghostcube> yes
[01:01] <ScottK> ghostcube: Re the systray garbage do you have the stock Ubuntu xorg-xserver or the modified one either from my PPA or the kubuntu-experimental PPA?
[01:02] <ghostcube> i have the one from your repo and the new nvidia driver from another repo
[01:02] <ghostcube> that fixes the redraw errors with compiz here
[01:02] <ScottK> OK, because I was going to suggest getting that if you didn't have it.
[01:51] <shtylman> will ubuntu pull in the final x server 1.6?
[01:56] <ScottK> I'd expect they'll test it and decide based on how the testing goes.
[02:05] <shtylman> that and the new intel driver would be great
[02:12] <DasKreech> Compile from scratch :)
[02:27] <shtylman> so my roommate just had a crazy idea while watching my poor laptop compile
[02:27] <shtylman> make compilers that use the gpu
[02:39] <maco> shtylman: nvidia
[02:40] <maco> with their fpga graphics cards?
[02:40] <shtylman> yea
[02:40] <shtylman> if you could write a compiler that would run on the gpu it would be great...each compile of a separate file could be parallelized
[02:41] <DasKreech> AMD has a nicer setup for compilation if you are talking about GPU
[02:43] <DasKreech> !info gwibber jaunty
[02:55] <nixternal> 10 hours and my imap is still synching...I thought KMail was an issue, so I am doing it with offlineimap instead, and it is just as slow
[02:55] <shtylman> jesus
[02:55] <nixternal> at least it is in the U's now :)
[02:56] <nixternal> Kubuntu User...jeesh, I still have about 15 mailboxes left
[03:00] <ScottK> DasKreech: It's still in New.
[03:01] <DasKreech> !find phoronix
[04:01] <DasKreech> Oh man
[04:01] <DasKreech> either I have been too wel ltrained or Gnome just runs against my DNA
[04:06] <ScottK> I rember during Intrepid when Ubuntu broke KNetworkManager buy jumping to 0.7 before it was ready and I had to use whatever the Gnome equivalent is.
[04:06] <ScottK> It just felt wrong.
[04:07] <DasKreech> Well I don't so much mind Gnome Tools
[04:07] <DasKreech> Esp like stuff I set once and leave alone
[04:07] <DasKreech> but stuff that I just expect to work just don't
[04:07] <DasKreech> OF  course stuff I don't expect to work do :)
[04:08] <ScottK> I've never really used it much.  It just never appealed to me.
[04:08] <ScottK> Our local public library is all Ubuntu, so I use it there sometimes.
[04:08] <a|wen-> morning everyone
[04:08] <ScottK> o/
[04:10] <DasKreech> It's pretty slick
[04:10] <DasKreech> and from the live CD at least things are pretty swishy
[04:11] <DasKreech> but Grrrrr why can't I drag and alt+tab?
[04:13] <DasKreech> seele: ping
[04:13] <ScottK> Where I get frustrated is I expect stuff like using sftp://example.com/path/to/file to work in save as dialogues.
[04:14] <DasKreech> It doesn't?
[04:19] <DasKreech> Well if it does I can't figure out how to do it
[07:36] <seele> DasKreech: pong
[07:36] <seele> hmm.. not here. why did autocomplete work
[08:07] <seele> rgreening: hmm.. yes it does seem to be crashing, although he said it ought to work on intrepid with 4.2.0
[08:46] <benny_> hi, just mentioned this on kubuntu chat, but nobody that should reply does, so I'll mention this here
[08:46] <benny_> can somebody urgently update http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2 ?
[08:46] <benny_> following that guide breaks upgrade from 8.10 as kde base moved to backports instead of ppa
[08:46] <benny_> that is for 4.2 upgrade after a clean 8.10 install
[08:47] <benny_> or otherwise change the main page to no longer link to that page with big 4.2 letters
[08:48] <a|wen-> ScottK / ryanakca: did any of you look at a new kde4.2 news item? ^^
[08:50] <benny_> I actually find it strange that apt automatically removes kdm, kwin, kdebase ...., because you add ppa on a clean install to your sources
[08:50] <a|wen-> and aRts is finally gone! yay
[08:51] <benny_> I would expect it to not remove things as the upgrade installs some 4.2 apps that are still in ppa
[08:53] <a|wen-> benny_: if you do a dist-upgrade apt is very keen on removing a lot of stuff for the benefit of upgrading just a few packages...
[08:53] <benny_> but this was just clicking the upgrade icon in the panel
[08:53] <benny_> that is, just following the guide of the website
[08:57] <a|wen-> benny_: somewhat same effect in many cases ... I've heard some talk about a new news-item + guide; it'll hopefully be here soon
[08:59] <benny_> well, my upgrade finished here, time to reboot. In the limited time I spend on kubuntu support yesterday there where 2 other requests :-)
[09:14] <Tonio_> hi guys
[09:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have tracked and patched k3b for iso dvd burning...
[09:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: there was 2 issues, one with growisofs ringbuffer and the other with the image path reading
[09:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: the package is building on my ppa so you can test in about an hour
[10:09] <Riddell> Tonio_: ooh
[10:15]  * Riddell updates http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2
[10:18] <a|wen-> perfect Riddell, thx
[10:24] <larsivi_> hola
[10:24] <Riddell> ola
[10:24] <larsivi_> I have kde 4.2 installed, but as I got a crash I wanted to install the debug libs, but without much success
[10:25] <larsivi_> a crash in umbrello of all things
[10:25] <larsivi_> first kdesdk-dbg seems to not depend on its dependencies
[10:25] <larsivi_> then most of the dbg packages seems to depend on kde 4.1.4 packages
[10:34] <maco> try the dbgsym packages maybe?
[10:34] <larsivi_> I was a bit surprised since I think it works on my home machine
[10:42] <larsivi_> maco: what is dbgsyms?
[10:46] <maco> instead of -dbg
[10:46] <maco> theyre in ddebs.ubuntu.com archive
[11:21] <ScottK> a|wen-: I did ping ryanakca about it, but haven't heard back.  It shouldn't remove stuff.
[11:22] <a|wen-> ScottK: okay ... yeah, it can give some problems if it does
[11:25] <EagleScreen> is there any ppa to install Qt 4.5 rc1 on Intrepid?
[11:33]  * ghostcube loves his new nvidia drivers 
[11:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: it worked for me with the first patch... but the second one could affect this too, so I hope it won't break because of the second fix :)
[11:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: please lemme know if that works for you :)
[11:39] <sabdfl> ScottK: yw :-)
[11:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I guess k3b is our last kde3 libs dependant app on the cd right ?
[11:42] <ryanakca> ScottK: I have to get ready for school, but if I have time before taking the bus, I can stick it in, mind emailing / pastebinning / msg'ing me the text?
[11:42] <Tonio_> rg
[11:42] <Tonio_> oops...
[11:43] <ScottK> ryanakca: I didn't have anything drafted and I'm on the way out the door.  Basically it just needs to point to intrepid-backports instead of kubuntu-experimental.
[11:43] <ryanakca> Along with whatever the ^^^ was yesterday...
[11:43] <ScottK> That was all I said yesterday.
[11:43] <ryanakca> ScottK: OK, same repository structure though? just s/intrepid-backports/kubuntu-experimental/g ?
[11:43] <ryanakca> ok
[11:43] <ScottK> looking
[11:45] <ScottK> ryanakca: Actually it looks to me like http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2 is updated.
[11:45] <ryanakca> ScottK: splendid, thanks to whoever took care of it :)
[11:45] <ScottK> Yes.  Thanks.
[11:57] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, openoffice is :(
[11:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: ho yeah, true..... that's bad...
[12:56] <JontheEchidna> Whoa, aRts is gone. For good.
[12:56] <JontheEchidna> ~order cookies for a|wen-
[12:56]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to a|wen-.
[13:00] <a|wen-> jup, finally
[13:45] <rgreening> seele: ping
[13:46] <rgreening> if you talk to the kblogger dev, tell him that downloading my blog posts crashes kblogger. Appears to die trying to retrieve the .png images. Segfaults.
[14:00] <seele> rgreening: pong
[14:01] <seele> rgreening: the dev is weiles, dunno if he is on irc yet today or not
[14:05] <rgreening> ok. seele, we should get him on for sure. I'll def help debug and fix if I can.
[14:06] <seele> he might still be working on it, he was hoping to get a UI review before he officially releases the next version, but i'm not sure when that might be
[14:12] <seele> wow.. 85 people in #kubuntu
[14:17] <jussi01> seele: ? my list says 300...
[14:17] <jussi01> hrm.. maybe you mean here...
[14:18] <seele> er yeah, kubuntu-devel heh
[14:18]  * seele must not be awake yet
[14:18]  * jussi01 huggles seele and reminds her its 4.18pm... :P
[14:18] <JontheEchidna> ~time
[14:18] <kubotu> JontheEchidna: America - New York - Thu Feb 26 09:18 EST
[14:19] <seele> i was up until 4 and then up again a little after 7
[14:19] <jussi01> ouch
[14:19] <jussi01> @now helsinki
[14:20] <seele> yeah
[14:20] <jussi01> hrm...
[14:20] <jussi01> !test
[14:21] <sebas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines#Layout cases (with examples in C, Python and C%23)
[14:21] <sebas> I kubuntu supposed to be implementing this as well?
[14:23] <sebas> s/I/Is :)
[14:23] <seaLne> perfectly smooth aptitude dist-upgrade from intrepid to jaunty \o/
[14:25] <Riddell> sebas: yes, in a kde way
[14:26] <ccm> hey guys, for about a week now all my qt applications on Jaunty don't show text (fonts) properly, meaning theay are absolutely not readably and therefore every qt app is currently broken for me - can you hint me if there is a known major bug and a ticket for this?
[14:27] <Riddell> ccm: I've not heard of that
[14:27] <sebas> rickspencer3: some things look really rough
[14:27] <seaLne> i noticed after dist-upgrading there that my fonts changed but they are still readable
[14:27] <sebas> i.e. manual line-breaking
[14:27] <sebas> That will just break for people with larger fonts
[14:28] <sebas> And the amount of code seems ... excessive
[14:28] <Quintasan> anyone under jaunty experiencing random freezes?
[14:28] <rickspencer3> hmmmm
[14:28] <sebas> Not to mention the limitation on "no actions", the two 'non-bullshit' examples both cry for a "act upon" button
[14:29] <rickspencer3> sebas: are you talking about the notification bubbles, then?
[14:29] <ccm> Riddell: where would you file such a bug?
[14:30] <Riddell> ccm: probably under qt4-x11
[14:30] <ccm> Riddell: okay
[14:30] <ccm> Riddell: will do so now, thank you
[14:30] <sebas> rickspencer3: yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=icon-summary-body.py
[14:32] <rickspencer3> sebas: I just joined the channel, so I'm not exactly sure what you're asking about
[14:32] <sebas> rickspencer3: you didn't miss much, I was just asking if Kubuntu is supposed to be implementing this as well
[14:32] <sebas> And I'm not quite thrilled about the design
[14:33] <rickspencer3> aaah
[14:33] <seaLne> isn't that just the gnome implementation?
[14:34] <sebas> Well, it still is very limiting
[14:34] <sebas> Hence my question if the same is supposed to be implemented for KDE
[14:34] <rickspencer3> I think it's the "notification system" implementation
[14:34] <rickspencer3> which currently lacks a KDE implemention
[14:34] <sebas> I can imagine the "just notification, no actions" is universal
[14:34] <rickspencer3> only the GNOME one got done for 9.04
[14:35] <sebas> Well, KDE has much more powerful notifications than this
[14:35] <Riddell> KDE's notifications can't even have images
[14:35] <Riddell> there's no way to do the kind of volume or brightness notification that Ubuntu Desktop now ha
[14:35] <Riddell> has
[14:36] <rickspencer3> sebas: unserstood
[14:36] <Riddell> and the bubbles insist on having the application name at the top which is confusing.  they also say "Notication from" which is just unnecessary
[14:36] <rickspencer3> however, the notification bubbles fit into a larger system, that is not documented on that page
[14:36] <Riddell> there's plenty that can be improved
[14:36] <ccm> Riddell: okay, filed it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/334916
[14:37] <sebas> Riddell: that'll be done as Plasmoid, it has nothing to do with notifications
[14:37] <sebas> It's a control element
[14:39] <Riddell> sebas: so another disjointed UI element?
[14:39] <Riddell> ccm: that is ugly :(
[14:39] <ccm> Riddell: yes, it is :)
[14:39] <sebas> Riddell: Why disjoint?
[14:40] <sebas> I'm thinking of something like the powerdevil applet
[14:40] <sebas> But integrated into the systray (which powerdevil will also be)
[14:40] <sebas> Notifications and volume control are fundamentally different things
[14:41]  * seele agrees
[14:41] <Riddell> I disagree.  the volume notification widget I implemented for kmix is ok but it would be so much nicer if it used the same visual notification bubbles as text notifications
[14:41] <sebas> What does volume need notification bubbles for?
[14:42] <Riddell> you press your volume up key, it shows you the new volume
[14:42] <sebas> Visually we'll integrate it by means of Plasma theme
[14:42] <sebas> Ah, right, that's different
[14:42] <sebas> We can surely make the new volume controller suitable for that case
[14:43] <sebas> didn't start the work on that yet though
[14:43] <Riddell> seems like the perfect job for a visual notification bubble to me
[14:44] <sebas> Yes, that can be done
[14:44] <sebas> I was thinking of the mini-mixer, for the cases without mm buttons
[14:44] <rickspencer3> sebas: looking to 9.10, how would should we all be working together on this?
[14:44] <sebas> rickspencer3: you mean the notifications?
[14:45] <rickspencer3> I mean the whole "notification system"
[14:45] <rickspencer3> to us, the notification bubbles are part of a system for using the right methods of attracting a user's attention
[14:45] <sebas> rickspencer3: working with the upstream plasma team, or even discussing the ideas would make a lot of sense I think. We've done quite some work on these areas already, and ... our ideas are not matching the ubuntu spec, and I think for very good reasons
[14:45] <rickspencer3> different kinds of things need different ways of notifiying users
[14:45] <sebas> rickspencer3: have you looked at the new system tray spec we started working on?
[14:46] <sebas> (Not that we did a good job documenting it ;))
[14:46] <rickspencer3> hehe
[14:46] <davidbarth> hi sebas, do you have pointers to that to speed up the discussion?
[14:46] <sebas> Right, that's exactly what the system tray in KDE will do
[14:46] <sebas> I'll look it up, sec
[14:46] <seele> Riddell: conceptually system feedback (power/display information) is different information from a event notification
[14:46] <rickspencer3> sounds like we need a forum to throw all the plans and ideas on the table
[14:46] <seele> the user is in control of one, and not the other
[14:47] <seele> just because it looks the same doesnt mean the same model applies
[14:47] <mpt> seele, that's true, and it was a toss-up whether we'd display them the same way or not
[14:47] <rickspencer3> seele: also, the feedback has to be instantaneous for system feedback
[14:47] <seele> yes, but it is important to make that distinction in your model, otherwise you fall in to the trap that "one is like the other, so it must follow..."
[14:47] <mpt> We do make the distinction
[14:48]  * seele checks the spec again
[14:48] <mpt> In <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD> they are labelled "notification bubbles" and "confirmation bubbles"
[14:48] <mpt> Confirmation bubbles confirm your pressing of keys for volume, brightness, etc, and appear instantly
[14:48] <mpt> Notification bubbles are for everything else, and are queued
[14:49] <rgreening> Riddell: adding images should be easy enough :)
[14:49] <seele> it's not confirmation, it's system feedback. confirmation means something else in most model taxonomies
[14:50] <seele> and.. it's time to teach class. always the good conversations when i need to disappear
[14:50] <rickspencer3> sebas: will you be at the desktop summit?
[14:50] <mpt> I don't know what a model taxonomy is, but "feedback" can also have multiple meanings :-)
[14:50] <seele> mpt: there are multiple models for task analysis, a taxonomy is a consistent nomenclature for describing elements so everyone knows what you are talking about
[14:51] <sebas> rickspencer3: Which desktop summit?
[14:51] <rickspencer3> combined Gaudek/aKademy
[14:51] <davidbarth> seele: that's right, they are different
[14:51] <sebas> rickspencer3, davidbarth: http://dot.kde.org/2009/02/11/plasma-team-looks-future has some pointers, I'm still trying to find our techbase page
[14:51] <davidbarth> seele: currently however, their layout is different, even if they are displayed with a similar look
[14:52] <sebas> http://vizzzion.org/stuff/systray-whiteboard.jpg here's a whiteboard shot from our design session
[14:52] <davidbarth> seele: it's a good warning that we need not make the assumption they are the same when designing new features around that model
[14:53] <sebas> The basic idea is that we categorize "stuff" that now ends up in the systray, so that  we later can visualize it appropriately (i.e. not everything stuffed into the systray as it's now)
[14:53] <sebas> rickspencer3: sure will be
[14:54] <mat_t> davidbarth, can you have a look at my message when you have a  sec?
[14:54] <sebas> adding images is actually part of the plan, we already started implementing this, and in part it'll be in KDE 4.3
[14:54] <davidbarth> sebas: ah nice, thanks
[14:55] <sebas> So the new systray spec allow apps to specify actions
[14:55] <sebas> it doesn't allow apps to control how those actions are visualised however
[14:55] <sebas> which makes for the consistency bit
[14:56] <davidbarth> sebas: sounds similar to the approach we've taken for the message indicator, ie a generic/system-wide facility to journal events and give some selected options to act on them
[14:57] <davidbarth> sebas: does the spec define the set of actions? or are they contributed by applications on the fly?
[14:57] <sebas> They're contributed by apps
[14:57] <sebas> Basically, apps offer a set of callbacks to the systray
[14:58] <rgreening> makes a lot of sense (very oo'sih :> )
[14:58] <sebas> So we get rid of that "apps embed their crap" system that makes it so horribly inconsistent
[14:58] <sebas> (and hard to control from the primary ui perspective)
[14:58] <davidbarth> sebas: sure
[14:59] <davidbarth> sebas: i guess limiting them is to complex/controversial
[14:59] <rgreening> sebas: is there consideration for non-kde app notification integration, which is where this eventually will lead.
[14:59] <sebas> Well, it's not what we want, the systray is limited enough
[15:00] <davidbarth> sebas: where as a written policy could provide more sensible limits
[15:00] <sebas> We offer a basic set of functionality through the systray in a generic way, and apps that want more can create their own plasmoid for that
[15:00] <davidbarth> sebas: we don't want to locked down things, but we would like the system to be consistent and intelligible
[15:00] <davidbarth> sebas: ie, if the user expects application launchers or documents to be presented in a certain way
[15:01] <sebas> yeah, but apps are too diverse to be able to make up and maintain such a list
[15:01] <davidbarth> sebas: we would like to avoid that rogue application actions offer the same feature but it a totally different way
[15:01] <sebas> consistency is mostly taken  care of because we control the visualisation
[15:01] <davidbarth> sebas: i agree, that's why a policy document is more efficient in this case (or an HIG if you prefer)
[15:01] <sebas> to be honest, I haven't seen apps doing that yet with the current system
[15:01] <davidbarth> sebas: and that's a very good thing
[15:02] <sebas> But that might be a limitation of that system
[15:02] <davidbarth> sebas: well.... i've seen tons of crazy stuff in the gnome applications
[15:02] <sebas> Yup, some sort of guideline is a good thing
[15:02] <davidbarth> sebas: when i was reviewing the code in search of notifications with actions... ;)
[15:02] <sebas> davidbarth: if ppl want crazy stuff, they can go all the way doing a plasmoid :>
[15:02] <davidbarth> sebas: uhuh ;)
[15:03] <sebas> I'm not saying crazy stuff is necessarily bad
[15:03] <davidbarth> sebas: neither am i; but we'd like to keep the crazy for us, and shielf Auntie Nora from it
[15:03] <davidbarth> s/shielf/shield/
[15:03] <sebas> I'm personally doing at the moment some very rich "systray like" functionality, and I find it makes huge amount of sense
[15:03] <davidbarth> like?
[15:04] <sebas> http://commit-digest.org/issues/2009-02-01/ here's a mail notifier on steroids I'm hacking on the the mo
[15:04] <sebas> that's its own plasmoid of course
[15:05] <sebas> It's also stuff that's now in the systray, and which really shows the limitations tehre
[15:06] <davidbarth> sebas: that's the big window on the right, right? but it's using the old systray framework, not the one you were describing? or do i miss the point?
[15:08] <sebas> http://imagebin.ca/view/MZKMrtLb.html
[15:08] <sebas> Here's a more recent screenshot
[15:09] <sebas> It's a plasmoid, the "in panel" visualisation is not done yet
[15:09] <davidbarth> ok, will take a look
[15:09] <davidbarth> but +1 for being nempomuk aware
[15:09] <sebas> But it show which kind of functionality we can easily put right at your fingertips
[15:09] <sebas> With the idea in this  case being that I only have to be disturbed once for an email
[15:10] <sebas> I'll be able to file / flag and trash it from the systray
[15:10] <sebas> Well, from lion mail :)
[15:10] <sebas> putting actions in direct context of the notification
[15:10] <davidbarth> (back)
[15:11] <davidbarth> sebas: the big divide from the past week as really been about what we call notifications and what they're supposed to do
[15:11] <davidbarth> sebas: in this case, i would say it's more about providing a new facility for applications to interact with the user
[15:11] <davidbarth> sebas: it's much more than a notification
[15:11] <sebas> Yes, absolutely
[15:11] <davidbarth> sebas: ie, you're not interrupting the user to inform him
[15:12] <davidbarth> sebas: you're really pushing information to him and expect feedback
[15:12] <sebas> Well, it'll be notifying you of new emails, so I do interrupt (when configured that way)
[15:12] <sebas> Well, yeah ... though feedback isn't mandatory
[15:13] <davidbarth> sebas: and that's the big divide...
[15:13] <sebas> But anyway ... I've to leave for some minutes
[15:13] <davidbarth> sebas: ie, if feedback is not mandatory, then it's not that good to "interrupt"
[15:13] <davidbarth> sebas: or rather, do it in a way that is visually an interuption
[15:13] <davidbarth> but all that i assume is going to be settled
[15:14] <davidbarth> mpt and seele should keep on discussing that
[15:14] <sebas> davidbarth: well, depends ... what I'm envisioning is that you can, per colletion define if it should interrupt you or not, and that you can configure that per activity
[15:14] <davidbarth> i try to be as neutral as possible here, but i do really think the distinction between, you know, the 4 ways of interacting with the user is a strong
[15:14] <sebas> so if you're working on Project ABC, you'll only get new email notifications for emails related to that project, for example
[15:15] <davidbarth> not a guideline, but a base for discussion
[15:15] <davidbarth> sebas: yes, i see the point
[15:15] <davidbarth> 2 ideas spring to mind
[15:15] <mpt> sebas, right, ideally Evolution and KMail etc would have options for "Notify me about messages in [choice of folder] by:" etc
[15:16] <davidbarth> if they're different they should be presented differently (thu shall not confuse your user)
[15:16] <mpt> so you could have filter-powered notifications
[15:16] <sebas> Lion Mail is not tied to a particular mail client, it's using Akonadi, mpt
[15:16] <davidbarth> and if it's quite difficult to get the configuration side right
[15:16] <sebas> yup
[15:16] <mpt> whoosh
[15:16] <davidbarth> for example, we were considering having a big preference panel, but opted for a per-application one
[15:17]  * mpt discovers what Akonadi is :-)
[15:17] <davidbarth> ie, the application and the user know better how all this work, whereas a central configuration switch would end up being a long confusing list of knobs
[15:17] <davidbarth> look at the growl system preferences on OS X
[15:18] <sebas> Not quite getting it but I'll be back in some minutes ...
[15:18] <davidbarth> ok, i will take a look at the pointers you sent
[15:18] <davidbarth> i have to go too (meeting)
[15:19] <davidbarth> but i'd like to bring this discussion to the xdg-list too, as a first effort to now standardize the galago (*not* FD.o ;) approach and the KDE approach
[15:19] <davidbarth> first acknowledging the differences for processing actions (ie, different daemons have different capabilities)
[15:19] <davidbarth> and then trying to work on the underlying theory
[15:20] <davidbarth> anyway, that was an interesting discussion
[15:20] <davidbarth> sebas: thanks
[15:21] <rgreening> Tonio_: yo
[15:21] <rgreening> Tonio_: is k3b ready yet and/or packaged?
[15:22] <Tonio_> rgreening: I patched a bit bot growisofs support, you can find it on my ppa
[15:22] <rgreening> Tonio_: cool. I'll try it out.
[15:23] <rgreening> Tonio_: bt, kpackagekit 0.4 is nice. THe new Find options rock.
[15:23] <rgreening> we need to get that in
[15:23] <rgreening> Also, we need to add a dep on kpackagekit for newer packagekit 0.3.14 0ubuntu3 iirc
[15:25] <Tonio_> rgreening: yup
[15:25] <rgreening> Tonio_: Build-Depends: needs libpackagekit-qt-dev (>= 0.3.14-0ubuntu3~ppa1) and Depends: needs packagekit (>= 0.3.14-0ubuntu3~ppa1)
[15:25] <rgreening> Tonio_: Build-Depends: needs libpackagekit-qt-dev (>= 0.3.14-0ubuntu3) and Depends: needs packagekit (>= 0.3.14-0ubuntu3)
[15:25] <rgreening> actually.... ^
[15:25] <Tonio_> rgreening: I prefer to add the good deps once packagekit is in the archives
[15:25] <Tonio_> rgreening: that's the reason I didn't add them yet
[15:26] <rgreening> as it stands, the current kpackagekit does not install packagekit and is non-function without it.
[15:27] <sebas> davidbarth: I'll add some content to the techbase draft shortly, it's at http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/NewSystemTray
[15:27] <Tonio_> sebas: hey ! long time no see !
[15:28] <sebas> hey Tonio_ :>
[15:28] <Tonio_> sebas: since you're there, I have a little question about the networkmanager plasmoid
[15:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: ooh, k3b is doing something
[15:28] <Tonio_> sebas: most of the clickable options in the connections details are not clickable right now (system connection, vpn options etc...)
[15:29] <Tonio_> sebas: is that wanted purpose ?
[15:29] <davidbarth> sebas: k
[15:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: great to ear my patches do work, hehe :)
[15:29] <sebas> Tonio_: yeah, need to work on that :)
[15:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: fixing them wasn't easy, especially since my C++ sucks, and k3b codebase is hudge... :)
[15:29] <sebas> networkmanager is a bit fishy and hard to grok, and everything is totally dynamic, so hard to test
[15:29] <Tonio_> sebas: yup
[15:30] <Tonio_> sebas: I posted a couple of messages on the ML to describe my issues, but none receive any response yet :(
[15:30] <sebas> Which list?
[15:30] <Tonio_> sebas:
[15:30] <Tonio_> kde-networkmanager@kde.org
[15:31] <sebas> Ah, maybe I should subscribe to that list, I didn't know it existed :D
[15:31] <Tonio_> sebas: will asked me to post there when I sent him a couple of patches
[15:31] <kwwii> sebas: still learning about this kde stuff, eh?
[15:32] <Tonio_> sebas: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-networkmanager/2009-February/thread.html
[15:32] <Tonio_> sebas: also, about networkstatus, the issue seems to be on kdepim side, since kopete seems to handle this correctly
[15:33]  * Tonio_ crosses his finger for Riddell's dvd burning attempt to reach the end...
[15:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: it seems to have frozen right at the end
[15:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum....
[15:34] <sebas> Tonio_: I'm sure we'll make the networkstatus working :)
[15:34] <Tonio_> I need to buy some rewritable dvds to perform tests...
[15:34] <sebas> brb
[15:34] <Tonio_> sebas: afaics it does, kopete reacts dynamically with the plasmoid connection status
[15:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: I had to kill it :(
[15:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: I only had one dvd, and without the ringbuffer stuff it worked...
[15:35] <sebas> kwwii: definitely :D
[15:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: there is probably an issue with the buffer closing at some points...
[15:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll try to get that fixed, and will discuss the issue with trueg
[15:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: It's probably easy to fix for him
[15:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: cd burning stuff is globaly working, and for what I've seen, the dvd codebase is mostly the same than the kde3 one
[15:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: the good and final fix is probably a matter of a couple of lines to patch
[15:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: also, as we discussed the file sharing during the uds...
[15:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: the kde samba component is still going the very old smb.conf way
[15:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: I looked at what gnome does, and they have a very simple "net usershare" implementation, that makes it possible to create shares without admin permissions
[15:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: coding something equivalent for kde should be very simple I guess...
[15:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll try to get something done later, or engage one of the kubuntu devs for this :)
[15:41] <Tonio_> maybe a _stefans_ would be interested...
[15:42] <Riddell> right, it wouldn't be too hard, that's why it frustrates me so much
[15:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: the idea would be to fork the existing compopent and remove everything that is not needed
[15:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: if only I was a coder.... :)
[15:44] <Tonio_> when I see the efforts to port the current component.... it would have been much easier to clone the gnome one and doing the userspace file sharing...
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: do you remember what the solution to your middle-click paste problems in konq were?
[15:45] <rgreening> yes. you have to disable konqueror gestures
[15:45] <JontheEchidna> so it's just a config problem, right?
[15:45] <DreadKnight> how come i can't find kpackagekit anymore in the repo on my dad's laptop?
[15:45] <rgreening> yes.
[15:45] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: are gestures on by default?
[15:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:ewg-TOSaPY4J:www.swerdna.net.au/linhowtousershares.html+kde+%22net+usershare%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&client=opera
[15:45] <rgreening> so, kubuntu-default-settings should be able to be updated JontheEchidna
[15:46] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: it appears so. it happened on a fresh install for me
[15:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: here you can see the nautilus thing.... very, very simple
[15:46] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: it's part of input actions in system settings
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> khotkeys, lovely
[15:49] <rgreening> lol
[16:05] <mofux> hi
[16:10] <mofux> i know this might be not the best place for a feature request... but is there any change to backport the new oxygen windec buttons to 4.2 ?
[16:11] <mofux> i asked the oxygen devs to include them in 4.2.1 but they see it more as a new feature unfortunately
[16:11] <mofux> ^change = chance
[16:12] <mofux> those new windec buttons arrived in svn just a few days after 4.2.0 was tagged
[16:13]  * seele is back.. for 15 minutes
[16:36] <nixternal> vorian: you ready?
[16:37] <vorian> nixternal: YES!
[16:38] <vorian> although i'm quite nervous
[16:38] <Tm_T> vorian: don't worry, you can kick to his groins
[16:38] <vorian> haha
[16:38] <nixternal> you shouldn't be, this is just to approve you to move on to the TB...now that is when you should get nervouse :p
[16:38]  * Tm_T has no idea what you are doing
[16:39] <vorian> oh great, i'll be puking for sure then :)
[16:40] <nixternal> nah, you shouldn't worry...I don't see anything that would hold you back
[16:40] <vorian> \m/
[16:42] <nixternal> \o/   (o)   (o(    /o\   - It's fun to do the "Y! M! C! A!"
[16:42] <nixternal> kind of hard to do that in ascii
[16:43] <vorian> haha
[17:39] <yao_ziyuan> regarding qtcurve and openoffice.org3,
[17:40] <yao_ziyuan> the cause for ooo3 to reset the current kde4 style back to Oxygen has been found.
[17:41] <yao_ziyuan> ooo3 finds the current kde3 style to be qtcurve which is also the default kde3 style so it sets the "current kde style" to empty
[17:41] <yao_ziyuan> it believes it saves the current kde3 style but it's actually the current kde4 style
[17:41] <yao_ziyuan> so the current kde4 style is reset to empty, which means Oxygen
[17:42] <yao_ziyuan> the solution is to edit all the system-wide "kdeglobals" files and add: [General] widgetStyle = qtcurve
[17:43] <yao_ziyuan> this sets the DEFAULT kde4 style to qtcurve, so ooo3 will always resets the current kde4 style to qtcurve
[18:12] <Tonio_> looks like I was offline, if not sorry for the double message...
[18:12] <Tonio_> Am I the only one who got a few glinches and graphical artefacts since we pushed qt4.5 ?
[18:18] <Quintasan> Hmm, can anyone of you drag a folder to Trash applet?
[18:19] <Quintasan> It says, the protocol trash is not capable of creating folders
[18:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: as we are in freeze, I'm trying to play with kde file sharing....
[18:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: it's a matter of 4 files (and small ones...) to patch
[18:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm sure there is something we can do, looking at nautilus-share code.... it's really simple to do
[18:45] <Tonio_> anyone interested to help ?
[18:47] <rgreening> Tonio_: sure...
[18:47] <Tonio_> rgreening: oki, so here is the plan... maybe we should go in private do discuss in calm :)
[18:47] <rgreening> sure
[18:54] <ScottK> vorian: Just read the meeting backlog.  Looks good.  Congrats.
[18:55] <seele> yay.. dolphin is getting usability testing
[18:55]  * seele is excited
[18:57] <Quintasan> hmm, I wonder why my pendrive is sooo slow, It's supposed to be usb 2.0 but the write speed is ~900 kb/s :/
[19:00] <DreadKnight> seele: it's damn annoying when hidding the menu bar to get the "show menubar" option in right-click menu, first thing
[19:01] <seele> DreadKnight: i didn't quite parse that
[19:03] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you please accept kdeedu in intrepid-backports.  It cleans up another set of pakcage install conflicts.
[19:03] <vorian> thanks ScottK
[19:03] <DreadKnight> seele: http://imagebin.ca/view/Eb9sWJ.html
[19:03] <DreadKnight> that's just playing horrible
[19:03] <DreadKnight> plain*
[19:04] <DreadKnight> seele: and e recommend to have the panels like i'm using, only on one side; takes way less space :P
[19:04] <DreadKnight> i*
[19:07] <ScottK> The panels are one of the reasons I don't use Dolphin.  It seems to me like they take up a huge amount of space I've got better use for.
[19:08] <DreadKnight> you can resize them and such
[19:08] <ScottK> I still don't see what it has over Konqueror as a file manager.
[19:08] <DreadKnight> nautilus has it's sucky issues as well :P
[19:08] <DreadKnight> konqueror as a "do it all" sucks imo; used to like the idea a long time ago, but it even sucks as a webbrowser atm
[19:09] <seele> DreadKnight: ah yes.. i remember that being discussed a while ago but people didnt want to remove the option because they wanted to be able to do kiosk mode
[19:09] <seele> i actually like the way microsoft office 2007 does it by hiding it in the menubar
[19:09] <DreadKnight> it feels too bloated konqueror trying to do everything, no wonder my apple succeeds with mac os x... that finder is damn simple.. even has category for applications as far as i know
[19:10] <DreadKnight> bloated like kopete.... = phail; instead of focusing on one thing and do it right
[19:11] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: for me Konqueror and Kopete are best choices in every platform, including MS Windows
[19:11] <DreadKnight> i think they are the most fugly apps in kde, dragging it down
[19:12] <DreadKnight> and i'm speaking in terms of usability etc.. what would be best for the average user
[19:12] <DreadKnight> people who don't even know about this channel :D
[19:12] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: weird, my wife who I could consider an average, is hating the times when she cannot use Kopete
[19:12] <DreadKnight> firefox = better brand, easier to get and install as well as customize = better.
[19:13] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: for me Firefox is not easier to customize
[19:13] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: or, tell me how you customize keyboard shortcuts?
[19:13] <DreadKnight> kopete  doesn't even has a first time wizard, the default emoticons used in kubuntu are damn fugly.. has a lot of bugs.. and the chat window is a mess
[19:14] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: Kopete does have first time wizard, to get your first account added
[19:14] <DreadKnight> i don't customize keyboard shortcuts, just learn default ones, and btw, non geeks usually don't even use hotkeys.
[19:14] <DreadKnight> Tm_T: strange, don't recall any wizard in ages
[19:14] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: you generalise hard, with no real sources, son (:
[19:14] <DreadKnight> and the account manager is rather non intuitive placed compared to pidgin... it's in settings... a bit obscure
[19:15]  * seele loves kopete
[19:15] <DreadKnight> then why the heck most people posting screenies of they kde desktop have pidgin in their tray?
[19:16] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: and no, I will not learn to use Firefox shortcuts, as they are bad
[19:16] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: ask them
[19:16] <DreadKnight> you think i'm talking crap? can't receive files over yahoo.. no avatars displayed (fixed in trunk now) and so on
[19:16] <Quintasan> http://imagebin.ca/view/bTIApmv.html
[19:16] <Quintasan> You'd better check this out :O
[19:16] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: no, you're not talking crap, but you generalise
[19:16] <DreadKnight> ctrl + L; ctrl +tab, ctrl + shift + tab, ctrl + w; those are the shortcuts i use;
[19:17] <Tm_T> and generalisation without proper sources etc
[19:17] <DreadKnight> proper sources?
[19:17] <DreadKnight> geez
[19:17] <a|wen> DreadKnight: then don't use yahoo ;)
[19:17] <seele> i thought yahoo chat was out of fashion
[19:17] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: I mostly live without even touching mouse, but hey, that's why I use KDE, I can do things way I want (:)
[19:17] <seele> it's all about google talk/xmpp now
[19:17] <DreadKnight> yahoo is damn popular in my country, number one
[19:17] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: anyway, if you think in somewhere is bug, file it
[19:18] <DreadKnight> Tm_T: you're a geek, don't compare yourself with average people
[19:18] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: I'm not a geek, son
[19:18] <Tm_T> and I don't compare
[19:18] <DreadKnight> average people keep one hand on mouse and just click stuff
[19:18] <DreadKnight> :3
[19:18] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: but flaming here won't help things, really
[19:19] <DreadKnight> i am talking usability; not sure why you people get feelings hurt so easly
[19:19] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: nah, I don't feel hurt, I'm talking about usability too
[19:20] <DreadKnight> most people use firefox and pidgin in kde, it's a fact
[19:20] <a|wen> DreadKnight: missing avatars with particular plugins, emoticon style = usability?
[19:20] <DreadKnight> all those small things add up when trying to introduce someone to linux
[19:20] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: most?
[19:21] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: I dare to challenge that accusation (:
[19:21] <a|wen> DreadKnight: the first one is a feature; the other one is design imo
[19:21]  * Tonio_ is tired of disconnections.....
[19:21] <Tonio_> seele: in case you didn't got my previous message -> ping ? :)
[19:21] <DreadKnight> windows users have their im apps with adds and custom emoticons, skins whatever; auditables on yahoo and imviroments; if they look at the old damn msn icons used as default in kopete they get scared.
[19:22] <yao_ziyuan> i'm downloading kubuntu 8.04.2
[19:22] <yao_ziyuan> will run it in vbox
[19:22] <yao_ziyuan> and then compile QtCurve/KDE3
[19:22] <DreadKnight> they even get scared when the dc++ client thingy looks way uglier than what they used on windoze
[19:22] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: I never saw "old msn icons" in any Kopete by default
[19:22] <yao_ziyuan> then my OOo 3.0.1 will have QtCurve/KDE3
[19:22] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: and about dc++, I really honestly don't care about that side of computer world
[19:23] <DreadKnight> you don't
[19:23] <seele> Tonio_: pong
[19:23] <seele> sorry i missed it
[19:23] <DreadKnight> that doesn't means it's not there
[19:23] <a|wen> Tm_T: agreed ... though i can't really remember the msn icons
[19:23] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: I know
[19:23] <Tonio_> seele: my bad connection, nevermind :)
[19:23] <Tonio_> seele: I was wondering about the new kpackagekit from the ppa....
[19:23] <DreadKnight> kde4 icon set in kopete = fugly icons that where used in msn long time ago
[19:23] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: untrue (:
[19:24] <Tonio_> seele: there is a "view in group" option that clearly separates installed from available packages
[19:24] <DreadKnight> i couldn't find kpackagekit earlier today in dad's laptop
[19:24] <Tonio_> seele: I was wondering if that should be enabled by defualt
[19:24] <yao_ziyuan> let's make qtcurve+crystal the default for kubuntu 9.04, /me speaks shakingly
[19:24] <Tonio_> seele: the thing is, you have to click on "X installed packages" to expand... and I don't like adding more clicks :)
[19:24] <Tonio_> seele: but the view is better imho in terms of usability.... your opinion ?
[19:24] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: no thank you (:
[19:25] <seele> Tonio_: i'm going to have to install 0.4.0 and look more in to it
[19:25] <Tonio_> seele: oki ;)
[19:25] <seele> there were a few issues with how lists were filtered, so im not sure exactly what you mean
[19:25] <Quintasan> http://imagebin.ca/view/bTIApmv.html  <--- It's occuring even after deleting .kde/share/apps/amarok
[19:25] <yao_ziyuan> very well...
[19:25] <Tonio_> seele: I can show you when you have everything installed from the ppa
[19:25] <yao_ziyuan> at least next kubuntu will have the latest qtcurve and crystal
[19:26] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: that's good news
[19:26] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: this "crystal" is exactly what, kwin theme?
[19:26] <yao_ziyuan> Tm_T: yes
[19:26] <Tm_T> theme/style/engine
[19:26] <DreadKnight> son :D
[19:26] <yao_ziyuan> Tm_T: Crystal is kwin4
[19:26] <yao_ziyuan> dad :)
[19:26] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: ah, it's updated to kde4 world now, nice
[19:27]  * vorian notes that dekorator is also available in jaunty
[19:27] <yao_ziyuan> Tm_T: and it fixed a bug that shows hollowed window borders
[19:27] <DreadKnight> new kmess version just wipes the floor with kopete regardin im chat window and usability/polishness from what i've seen
[19:27] <yao_ziyuan> dekorator doesn't have good themes
[19:27] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: with 1 px thick borders I prefer that never been an issue (:
[19:28] <yao_ziyuan> i notice dekorator has "Nodoka"
[19:28] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: hmm, how many protocols that one has?
[19:28] <yao_ziyuan> Tm_T: it's actually 2px
[19:28] <Tm_T> has/supports
[19:28] <DreadKnight> Tm_T: :P
[19:28] <DreadKnight> that's a lame excuse
[19:28] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: for you maybe (:
[19:28] <yao_ziyuan> 3px actually
[19:28] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: it's not
[19:28] <DreadKnight> it's stuff that can still be implemented into kopete
[19:29] <Tm_T> DreadKnight: then work for it, this is not the place for Kopete development
[19:29] <yao_ziyuan> Tm_T: see some screenshots for yourself:
[19:29] <yao_ziyuan> (08时37分44秒) yao_ziyuan: http://i43.tinypic.com/2aeumqa.png
[19:29] <yao_ziyuan> (08时37分44秒) yao_ziyuan: http://i40.tinypic.com/23magbn.png
[19:29] <yao_ziyuan> (08时37分44秒) yao_ziyuan: http://i41.tinypic.com/2i7075k.png
[19:29] <yao_ziyuan> (08时38分36秒) yao_ziyuan: http://i43.tinypic.com/5eagdz.png
[19:30] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: yes, but you know, it's opensource, you can modify it (;
[19:30] <DasKreech> seele: ping a semi professional question
[19:30] <DasKreech> Whats the flood of images for?
[19:33] <seele> DasKreech: pong
[19:34] <DasKreech> seele: Would it make sense for a notification to be intangible if the mouse was already over the spot or in the vicinity ?
[19:34] <DasKreech> This is more of a "do you think" than a I'd like the research on question
[19:34] <seele> DasKreech: you mean not clickable?
[19:34] <DasKreech> Just that your thinking is probably more informed than most people's :)
[19:35] <DasKreech> seele: yes
[19:35] <seele> DasKreech: i think it would be confusing if there were inconsistencies in the state of the notification. also the intent would be hard to detect.
[19:37] <DasKreech> seele: Ok I was just thinking that a moment's intangibilty is good if the mouse was in that area (actually in motion) before the notification came in
[19:37] <DasKreech> So if you were clicking on something there you wouldn't have the notification jump in and intercept the click before you knew what was going on
[19:37] <DasKreech> Or what the notification was even about
[19:37] <DasKreech> in that case I think being intangible would be useful even if only for say 1.75 second
[19:38] <DasKreech> Does that make any sense?
[19:38] <DasKreech> I understand the inconsistency
[19:38] <seele> DasKreech: the location of the notification isn't in a high traffic area. also, the notification could be configured to not consider clicks within the first 100ms while it appears so the user has a chance to recognize the new element
[19:39] <DasKreech> I was just wondering if that Idea held any water
[19:39] <DasKreech> seele: You don't know that
[19:39] <DasKreech> In KDE4 I can put my notifications anywhere
[19:39] <seele> DasKreech: i dont care about the customizations, i care about the defaults
[19:39] <DasKreech> seele: Well yes this would be a customization
[19:40] <DasKreech> seele: as you say the user would say I'd like the notification untouchable for x period if it's likely to be a misclick
[19:41] <DasKreech> Though I suppose you are right and not having a prerequisite may be nicer
[19:41] <DasKreech> So it's consistent at least
[19:54] <ScottK> It just occurs to me it'd be nice to have some Alpha 5 release notes.
[19:56] <davmor2> ScottK: D'oh
[20:13] <LaserJock> has there been any one person looking after the new NM plasmoid?
[20:13] <seele> i think sebas or wstepheson
[20:13] <seele> i forget which one
[20:14] <DasKreech> sebas
[20:14] <maco> LaserJock: having any trouble with it? other than that thing where if you have too many APs visible they run outside their box?
[20:14] <LaserJock> maco: yeah, I can't connect to anything
[20:15] <LaserJock> wired or wireless
[20:15] <maco> O_o
[20:15] <davmor2> Riddell: you about still?
[20:15] <jussi01> sebas: is doing prettyness and wstephenson funtionality iirc
[20:15] <LaserJock> maco: static IPs seem buggered on the hostmask thing again
[20:16] <maco> yuck
[20:16] <LaserJock> maco: I don't know why I can't connect to the wireless, it just doesn't connect and doesn't give any reasons why
[20:16] <maco> im not using network manager because...well i told you. if i connect using NM, i cant launch any applications
[20:16] <maco> can you do it with wireless tools?
[20:16] <LaserJock> maco: what do you mean?
[20:16] <maco> ifup?
[20:17] <maco> or iwconfig
[20:17] <maco> (just to rule out lower level things)
[20:17] <LaserJock> maco: I don't know how to use iwconfig and the CLI wifi tools
[20:17] <LaserJock> maco: for eth0, yeah /etc/network/interfaces works fine
[20:17] <maco> is there enryption involved?
[20:17] <LaserJock> yep
[20:17] <maco> ok
[20:17] <maco> wep or wpa?
[20:17] <LaserJock> wpa
[20:17] <maco> ok PM
[20:19] <davmor2> Guys you know the bluetooth app/plasmoid in Kubuntu should it automatically switch off if you remove the dongle?
[20:24] <DreadKnight> vlc is in 2 windows again... and custom hotkeys settings not really working
[20:24] <DreadKnight> can't make it one window
[20:25] <DreadKnight> screen saves still showing up even if it's disabled...
[21:10] <Tonio_> davmor2: the icon should dissapear, indeed
[21:10] <Tonio_> davmor2: won't work for you ?
[21:11] <davmor2> Tonio_: Didn't disappear until I hit quit.
[21:11] <Tonio_> weird....
[21:11] <Tonio_> davmor2: can that be reproduced ?
[21:12] <davmor2> Tonio_: pass I only wanted to see if my dongle would work in Kubuntu which it doesn't massive bluetooth bug
[21:12] <davmor2> I'm now installing something else
[21:12] <Tonio_> k
[21:13] <davmor2> Tonio_: I can try again Monday maybe :)
[21:13] <Tonio_> that would be nice :)
[21:13] <davmor2> np's :)
[21:13] <Tonio_> I don't have a dongle myself to test.... I have a bluetooth chip in...
[21:17] <neversfelde> Tonio_: dissappearing of the bluetooth icon works for me in jaunty. If that is, what needed testing :)
[21:17] <Tonio_> neversfelde: glad to read this :)
[21:18] <neversfelde> even filetransfer was successfull on an intrepid system of a friend of mine. I was impressed :)
[21:19] <davmor2> neversfelde: ah you have a dongle that works :)
[21:19] <neversfelde> davmor2: two
[21:19] <neversfelde> better three
[21:20] <davmor2> I got an msi one works perfectly with anything pre intrepid beta
[21:21] <neversfelde> davmor2: mhh and you are using kdebluetooth 0.3 now?
[21:21] <davmor2> neversfelde: what ever is in jaunty today
[21:22] <davmor2> if it's based on bluez0.4.0 I think, it's screwed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/268502
[21:22] <neversfelde> ah ok, no such problem here. I will ask our kubuntu users for some more testing, we have a thread in forum.kubuntu-de.org about that
[21:23] <seele> Tonio_: do i need jaunty to try your kpackagekit ppa stuff?
[21:23] <Tonio_> seele: I think yes :)
[21:24] <Tonio_> seele: https://edge.launchpad.net/~packagekit/+archive/ppa
[21:25] <Tonio_> seele: the packagekit package is jaunty only, indeed...
[21:30] <seele> Tonio_: not a problem, just needed to know if i should fire up virtualbox
[21:30] <Tonio_> seele: hehe oki :)
[21:38] <nookie^> hi! i have just installed jaunty in vmware but for some reason everytime it's booted the panel is gone
[21:39] <nookie^> is there anywhere a way to recover it?
[21:41] <ScottK> Which -dbg do I need for Konqueror tracebacks?
[21:54] <DreadKnight> nookie^: delete .kde folder.... happened to dad as well today... panels got messed up really bad
[21:55] <DreadKnight> nookie^: and reset it or something
[21:55] <DreadKnight> i'm outta here for now
[22:14] <ScottK> Anyone want to leap up and whip out some release notes for Alpha 5 in the next hour?
[22:16] <dtchen> can you give me a template and significant changes?
[22:16] <maco> "stuff's still broken. sound is REALLY broken. the end"
[22:16] <maco> ?
[22:16] <dtchen> sound is not broken on kubuntu...
[22:16] <dtchen> remember kubuntu doesn't seed pulseaudio
[22:17] <maco> dtchen: i know, but dont they share release notes?
[22:17] <dtchen> to some extent i'm sure
[22:18] <dtchen> i doubt kde 4.2 being in would be an ubuntu release note
[22:18] <maco> i thought there was just one wiki page that says "here's the alpha 5 release notes"
[22:19] <dtchen> steve's question in u-devel addressed kubuntu specifically
[22:22] <maco> dtchen: i didnt see that, sorry
[22:26] <ScottK> I took the Alpha 4 notes and started updating them.
[22:27] <ScottK> Kubuntu generally does it's own to augment the Ubuntu tech overview.
[22:27] <ScottK> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/Alpha5Kubuntu if anyone wants to take over.
[22:30] <dtchen> ScottK: 9.04 will ship with a KDE 4.2 base, correct?
[22:30] <ScottK> Yes.
[22:30] <ScottK> That's the wrong URL.  Let me move the page
[22:31] <ScottK> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/Alpha5/Kubuntu is the right one
[22:31] <ScottK> dtchen: We have 4.2.0 now, will go to 4.2.1 shortly, and may get 4.2.2 before release.
[22:31] <davmor2> ScottK: new and improved Everything, could you be any more vague :D
[22:32] <ScottK> davmor2: I could, but that would take more time than I have.
[22:35] <maco> lol
[22:36] <ScottK> dtchen: let me know when you're done with your editing and I'll move the update over to the new url.
[22:37] <ScottK> I'm assuming your editing since you had an edit lock on the page.
[22:38] <neversfelde> When will Alpha 5 be release?
[22:38] <neversfelde> +d
[22:39] <ScottK> When it's ready.
[22:40]  * ScottK notes http://elcuco2.blogspot.com/2009/02/qdevelop-027-is-out.html
[22:40] <neversfelde> ok, if it's not ready tomorrow, I probably can put some bad german english in that article :)
[22:41] <ghostcube> yeah
[22:41] <ghostcube> genlish
[22:41] <ghostcube> :)
[22:41] <neversfelde> hehe
[22:42] <dtchen> ScottK: i'm editing JauntyJackalope/Alpha5/Kubuntu, though
[22:43] <ScottK> dtchen: Great.  That's the one we want done.  Thanks.
[22:56] <dtchen> ScottK: are the knetworkmanager and plasmoid-n-m issues still relevant?
[22:58] <ScottK> Yes.  We still (AFAIK) have both.
[22:58] <ScottK> Except it's plasma-widget-n-m now.
[22:59] <ScottK> We renamed to plasma-widget-foo at upstream's request.
[22:59] <ScottK> It has also been updated, so it should work better.
[23:04] <dtchen> ScottK: ok, but i don't know what that means regarding wireless connectivity not working, etc.
[23:04] <dtchen> ScottK: i.e., that blurb was in the Alpha 4 release notes
[23:04] <dtchen> ScottK: please look at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/Alpha5/Kubuntu
[23:04] <dtchen> i've removed the udev<->encrypted LVM note, because that was resolved
[23:06] <dtchen> (please note that i didn't add anything; i'm squashing alsa issues ATM)
[23:18] <ScottK> Great.
[23:19] <ScottK> dtchen: Thanks.  Looking.
[23:19] <codecyphix> does alpha5 support ati drivers yet?
[23:22] <ScottK> Anyone here who's wiki-foo is sufficient to fix the images?
[23:27] <jussi01> hrm, my restart and log out buttons have disappeared....
[23:29] <Riddell> you're trapped
[23:30] <Riddell> ScottK: I've never worked out images in that wiki.  nixternal always fixed them
[23:30] <ScottK> And claydoh did the last ones.
[23:30] <ScottK> He's not around.
[23:45] <yao_ziyuan> o no, i downloaded ubutnu 8.04.2
[23:45] <yao_ziyuan> not kubuntu
[23:46] <neversfelde> whats introduced with alpha 5?
[23:46] <ScottK> Mostly continued improvements of what we had before.
[23:46] <ScottK> Quassel is a final release now.
[23:47] <ScottK> The Marble Python bindings are pretty cool if you enjoy such things.
[23:47] <neversfelde> I have added Qt 4.5 rc1, but I do not have more infos about that
[23:47] <neversfelde> If it's totally wrong, delte it :)
[23:51] <Riddell> neversfelde: shtylman's ubiquity changes
[23:52] <neversfelde> it is WIP in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[23:53] <neversfelde> is everything done?
[23:54] <yao_ziyuan> i'm preparing a vbox virtual macine that can compile kde3 styles
[23:54] <seele> anything not done is probably jaunty+1
[23:54] <yao_ziyuan> currently i'm installing a ubuntu 8.04.2 which i mistakenly downloaded
[23:54] <Riddell> neversfelde: no but a good amount has been merged in, I'll do some screenshots
[23:55] <neversfelde> Riddell: ok, I added a passage about that and will have some time tomorrow, so I can improve it
[23:56] <neversfelde> but you should have a look at it before release, my latin is better than my english ;)
[23:57] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/ubiquity-alpha5.png
[23:57] <shtylman> neversfelde: actuall items 1, 2, 5 and 6 are done
[23:57] <neversfelde> k
[23:57] <shtylman> *actually
[23:57] <shtylman> I just have some fixes and tweaks left