[00:00] hmm new nvidia driver fixes sys tray icon garbage here [00:00] oO [00:02] foget it it doesnt lol [00:02] Riddell: ok...would you like me to add the os notice? also...should I put the after bar below the options? I don't really like that [00:02] but it i sbetter than before [00:04] shtylman: I think the os notice would be nice. I agree the after bar shouldn't be split up from the before bar (and they should have labels to actually say what they are) [00:11] can anyone tell me what this means and how i fix it: E: Build-Depends dependency for kblogger-kde4 cannot be satisfied because no available versions of package kdebase-dev-kde4 can satisfy version requirements [00:12] from this: sudo apt-get build-dep kblogger-kde4 [00:13] do you experimental repositories [00:14] this one? deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-experimental/ubuntu intrepid main [00:15] it means that kblogger-kde4 hasn't been touched since hardy and uses all the temporary kde4 package names that no longer exist [00:16] hum, i wonder why he told me to do that if it wasnt going to work [00:16] can't really look at his app now, can i [00:16] damnit [00:17] what are you trying to do? [00:18] following instructions from a developer to get whatever i need to compile kblogger from svn [00:19] this is what he gave me: [00:19] apt-get build-dep kblogger-kde4 [00:19] cd /YOURBUILDDIROFCHOICE [00:19] svn svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/pim/kblogger [00:19] cd kblogger [00:19] make [00:19] sudo make install [00:20] seele, you can try apt-get source kblogger-kde4 [00:21] booooo [00:21] sh: dpkg-source: not found [00:21] Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x kblogger-kde4_1.0~alpha2-0ubuntu3.dsc' failed. [00:21] then get the svn, then cp the debian dir into a svn export of the svn dir. and do: a debuild -S -sa [00:21] Check if the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed. [00:21] E: Child process failed [00:21] lol [00:21] hmm... [00:21] let me try something here [00:22] seele: apt-get install cdbs cmake debhelper kdebase-dev kdebase-workspace-dev kdelibs5-dev kdepimlibs5-dev libkipi0-dev quilt [00:22] svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/pim/kblogger [00:22] cd kblogger [00:22] mkdir build [00:22] cd build [00:23] cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr -DDATA_INSTALL_DIR=/usr/share/kde4 .. [00:23] make [00:23] sudo make install [00:23] probably [00:23] * seele tries before she thanks :P [00:24] erm.. [00:24] The following packages have unmet dependencies: libkipi0-dev: Depends: libkipi0 (= 0.1.6-1ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed [00:24] E: Broken packages [00:24] seele: libkipi6-dev [00:25] this is why doing anything design related pre-release in open source is a pain in the ass [00:25] * seele tries again [00:25] whoo, 152 new packages to install.. [00:25] gonna be a while before i know if i can thank you or not :P [00:26] * seele checks the space available in / [00:26] apt-get clean time? [00:27] oh wait i should check that too [00:27] 862m available space on / [00:27] maco: i do it after every update [00:27] i need to switch to lvm [00:28] so that when i do silly things like have gnome and kde on a pre-release machine that gets hundreds of megs of updates a day i dont fill it up [00:28] 10gb is a fine / partition...if you only have one DE [00:35] seele: hows the download going? [00:35] rgreening: building at the moment *crosses fingers* [00:36] I just made a package up. I'll upload to my PPA assuming the package works here :) [00:36] seele: ^ [00:36] rgreening: LP is down right now. You might need to wait until it comes back online to push to your PPA [00:37] it.. looks like it works! yay [00:37] Riddell: thanks for the help ;P [00:38] cool [00:39] hmm.. what an interesting piece of software [00:39] of qt software? [00:39] seele: is it better than the hardy version? cause it had issues back then [00:39] * seele makes dinner before investing the remaining night [00:39] rgreening: dunno, apparently he's been working on it, that's why he asked me to look at it [00:40] cool. cause I need it. konq fails to work with blogspot. [00:41] seele: test building a deb package now. [00:42] works. [00:42] Uploaded to my PPA [00:45] seele: auto-configure didn't work. complains about io-slave [00:46] nm. apparantly you have to put in http:// in the URL. [00:48] seele: segfault/core dump when retrieving my last 10 articles from online. [00:52] dude, what's wrong with quicklaunch? [00:52] the icons are like 4x4 pixels [00:54] vorian: make it bigger? [00:56] seele: it certainly is crashy :) [00:57] vorian, maco: yeah, that patch fixed the crash but broke the usability of the applet. [00:57] maybe 4.2.1 will fix it correctly [00:57] er, which patch? [00:58] you and your fancy 4.5 [00:59] lol. [00:59] :) [01:00] kde broke plasma to make ot work with qt 4.4. now we have qt 4.5 and they have to unbreak plasma. [01:00] we backported some patches to accomplish this. [01:00] Im hoping 4.2.1 has the patches and working. [01:00] ghostcube: Are you on intrepid? [01:01] yes [01:01] ghostcube: Re the systray garbage do you have the stock Ubuntu xorg-xserver or the modified one either from my PPA or the kubuntu-experimental PPA? [01:02] i have the one from your repo and the new nvidia driver from another repo [01:02] that fixes the redraw errors with compiz here [01:02] OK, because I was going to suggest getting that if you didn't have it. [01:51] will ubuntu pull in the final x server 1.6? [01:56] I'd expect they'll test it and decide based on how the testing goes. [02:05] that and the new intel driver would be great [02:12] Compile from scratch :) [02:27] so my roommate just had a crazy idea while watching my poor laptop compile [02:27] make compilers that use the gpu [02:39] shtylman: nvidia [02:40] with their fpga graphics cards? [02:40] yea [02:40] if you could write a compiler that would run on the gpu it would be great...each compile of a separate file could be parallelized [02:41] AMD has a nicer setup for compilation if you are talking about GPU [02:43] !info gwibber jaunty [02:43] Package gwibber does not exist in jaunty [02:55] 10 hours and my imap is still synching...I thought KMail was an issue, so I am doing it with offlineimap instead, and it is just as slow [02:55] jesus [02:55] at least it is in the U's now :) [02:56] Kubuntu User...jeesh, I still have about 15 mailboxes left [03:00] DasKreech: It's still in New. [03:01] !find phoronix [03:01] Package/file phoronix does not exist in intrepid [04:01] Oh man [04:01] either I have been too wel ltrained or Gnome just runs against my DNA [04:06] I rember during Intrepid when Ubuntu broke KNetworkManager buy jumping to 0.7 before it was ready and I had to use whatever the Gnome equivalent is. [04:06] It just felt wrong. [04:07] Well I don't so much mind Gnome Tools [04:07] Esp like stuff I set once and leave alone [04:07] but stuff that I just expect to work just don't [04:07] OF course stuff I don't expect to work do :) [04:08] I've never really used it much. It just never appealed to me. [04:08] Our local public library is all Ubuntu, so I use it there sometimes. [04:08] morning everyone [04:08] o/ [04:10] It's pretty slick [04:10] and from the live CD at least things are pretty swishy [04:11] but Grrrrr why can't I drag and alt+tab? [04:13] seele: ping [04:13] Where I get frustrated is I expect stuff like using sftp://example.com/path/to/file to work in save as dialogues. [04:14] It doesn't? [04:19] Well if it does I can't figure out how to do it [07:36] DasKreech: pong [07:36] hmm.. not here. why did autocomplete work [08:07] rgreening: hmm.. yes it does seem to be crashing, although he said it ought to work on intrepid with 4.2.0 [08:46] hi, just mentioned this on kubuntu chat, but nobody that should reply does, so I'll mention this here [08:46] can somebody urgently update http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2 ? [08:46] following that guide breaks upgrade from 8.10 as kde base moved to backports instead of ppa [08:46] that is for 4.2 upgrade after a clean 8.10 install [08:47] or otherwise change the main page to no longer link to that page with big 4.2 letters [08:48] ScottK / ryanakca: did any of you look at a new kde4.2 news item? ^^ [08:50] I actually find it strange that apt automatically removes kdm, kwin, kdebase ...., because you add ppa on a clean install to your sources [08:50] and aRts is finally gone! yay [08:51] I would expect it to not remove things as the upgrade installs some 4.2 apps that are still in ppa [08:53] benny_: if you do a dist-upgrade apt is very keen on removing a lot of stuff for the benefit of upgrading just a few packages... [08:53] but this was just clicking the upgrade icon in the panel [08:53] that is, just following the guide of the website [08:57] benny_: somewhat same effect in many cases ... I've heard some talk about a new news-item + guide; it'll hopefully be here soon [08:59] well, my upgrade finished here, time to reboot. In the limited time I spend on kubuntu support yesterday there where 2 other requests :-) [09:14] hi guys [09:15] Riddell: I have tracked and patched k3b for iso dvd burning... [09:15] Riddell: there was 2 issues, one with growisofs ringbuffer and the other with the image path reading [09:15] Riddell: the package is building on my ppa so you can test in about an hour [10:09] Tonio_: ooh [10:15] * Riddell updates http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2 [10:18] perfect Riddell, thx [10:24] hola [10:24] ola [10:24] I have kde 4.2 installed, but as I got a crash I wanted to install the debug libs, but without much success [10:25] a crash in umbrello of all things [10:25] first kdesdk-dbg seems to not depend on its dependencies [10:25] then most of the dbg packages seems to depend on kde 4.1.4 packages [10:34] try the dbgsym packages maybe? [10:34] I was a bit surprised since I think it works on my home machine [10:42] maco: what is dbgsyms? [10:46] instead of -dbg [10:46] theyre in ddebs.ubuntu.com archive [11:21] a|wen-: I did ping ryanakca about it, but haven't heard back. It shouldn't remove stuff. [11:22] ScottK: okay ... yeah, it can give some problems if it does [11:25] is there any ppa to install Qt 4.5 rc1 on Intrepid? [11:33] * ghostcube loves his new nvidia drivers [11:39] Riddell: it worked for me with the first patch... but the second one could affect this too, so I hope it won't break because of the second fix :) [11:39] Riddell: please lemme know if that works for you :) [11:39] ScottK: yw :-) [11:41] Riddell: I guess k3b is our last kde3 libs dependant app on the cd right ? [11:42] ScottK: I have to get ready for school, but if I have time before taking the bus, I can stick it in, mind emailing / pastebinning / msg'ing me the text? [11:42] rg [11:42] oops... [11:43] ryanakca: I didn't have anything drafted and I'm on the way out the door. Basically it just needs to point to intrepid-backports instead of kubuntu-experimental. [11:43] Along with whatever the ^^^ was yesterday... [11:43] That was all I said yesterday. [11:43] ScottK: OK, same repository structure though? just s/intrepid-backports/kubuntu-experimental/g ? [11:43] ok [11:43] looking [11:45] ryanakca: Actually it looks to me like http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2 is updated. [11:45] ScottK: splendid, thanks to whoever took care of it :) [11:45] Yes. Thanks. [11:57] Tonio_: no, openoffice is :( [11:58] Riddell: ho yeah, true..... that's bad... === Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu Development | main frozen for alpha-5, CD testers needed | 8.04.2 released! - http://www.kubuntu.org/node/69 | Feature Freeze in effect - Fix bugs | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo [12:56] Whoa, aRts is gone. For good. [12:56] ~order cookies for a|wen- [12:56] * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to a|wen-. [13:00] jup, finally [13:45] seele: ping [13:46] if you talk to the kblogger dev, tell him that downloading my blog posts crashes kblogger. Appears to die trying to retrieve the .png images. Segfaults. [14:00] rgreening: pong [14:01] rgreening: the dev is weiles, dunno if he is on irc yet today or not [14:05] ok. seele, we should get him on for sure. I'll def help debug and fix if I can. [14:06] he might still be working on it, he was hoping to get a UI review before he officially releases the next version, but i'm not sure when that might be [14:12] wow.. 85 people in #kubuntu [14:17] seele: ? my list says 300... [14:17] hrm.. maybe you mean here... [14:18] er yeah, kubuntu-devel heh [14:18] * seele must not be awake yet [14:18] * jussi01 huggles seele and reminds her its 4.18pm... :P [14:18] ~time [14:18] JontheEchidna: America - New York - Thu Feb 26 09:18 EST [14:19] i was up until 4 and then up again a little after 7 [14:19] ouch [14:19] @now helsinki [14:20] yeah [14:20] hrm... [14:20] !test [14:20] sigh... again? I'm busy here, I already told you it failed. [14:21] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines#Layout cases (with examples in C, Python and C%23) [14:21] I kubuntu supposed to be implementing this as well? [14:23] s/I/Is :) [14:23] perfectly smooth aptitude dist-upgrade from intrepid to jaunty \o/ [14:25] sebas: yes, in a kde way [14:26] hey guys, for about a week now all my qt applications on Jaunty don't show text (fonts) properly, meaning theay are absolutely not readably and therefore every qt app is currently broken for me - can you hint me if there is a known major bug and a ticket for this? [14:27] ccm: I've not heard of that [14:27] rickspencer3: some things look really rough [14:27] i noticed after dist-upgrading there that my fonts changed but they are still readable [14:27] i.e. manual line-breaking [14:27] That will just break for people with larger fonts [14:28] And the amount of code seems ... excessive [14:28] anyone under jaunty experiencing random freezes? [14:28] hmmmm [14:28] Not to mention the limitation on "no actions", the two 'non-bullshit' examples both cry for a "act upon" button [14:29] sebas: are you talking about the notification bubbles, then? [14:29] Riddell: where would you file such a bug? [14:30] ccm: probably under qt4-x11 [14:30] Riddell: okay [14:30] Riddell: will do so now, thank you [14:30] rickspencer3: yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=icon-summary-body.py [14:32] sebas: I just joined the channel, so I'm not exactly sure what you're asking about [14:32] rickspencer3: you didn't miss much, I was just asking if Kubuntu is supposed to be implementing this as well [14:32] And I'm not quite thrilled about the design [14:33] aaah [14:33] isn't that just the gnome implementation? [14:34] Well, it still is very limiting [14:34] Hence my question if the same is supposed to be implemented for KDE [14:34] I think it's the "notification system" implementation [14:34] which currently lacks a KDE implemention [14:34] I can imagine the "just notification, no actions" is universal [14:34] only the GNOME one got done for 9.04 [14:35] Well, KDE has much more powerful notifications than this [14:35] KDE's notifications can't even have images [14:35] there's no way to do the kind of volume or brightness notification that Ubuntu Desktop now ha [14:35] has [14:36] sebas: unserstood [14:36] and the bubbles insist on having the application name at the top which is confusing. they also say "Notication from" which is just unnecessary [14:36] however, the notification bubbles fit into a larger system, that is not documented on that page [14:36] there's plenty that can be improved [14:36] Riddell: okay, filed it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/334916 [14:36] Ubuntu bug 334916 in qt4-x11 "fonts in qt4 applications on Jaunty totally unreadable " [Undecided,New] [14:37] Riddell: that'll be done as Plasmoid, it has nothing to do with notifications [14:37] It's a control element [14:39] sebas: so another disjointed UI element? [14:39] ccm: that is ugly :( [14:39] Riddell: yes, it is :) [14:39] Riddell: Why disjoint? [14:40] I'm thinking of something like the powerdevil applet [14:40] But integrated into the systray (which powerdevil will also be) [14:40] Notifications and volume control are fundamentally different things [14:41] * seele agrees [14:41] I disagree. the volume notification widget I implemented for kmix is ok but it would be so much nicer if it used the same visual notification bubbles as text notifications [14:41] What does volume need notification bubbles for? [14:42] you press your volume up key, it shows you the new volume [14:42] Visually we'll integrate it by means of Plasma theme [14:42] Ah, right, that's different [14:42] We can surely make the new volume controller suitable for that case [14:43] didn't start the work on that yet though [14:43] seems like the perfect job for a visual notification bubble to me [14:44] Yes, that can be done [14:44] I was thinking of the mini-mixer, for the cases without mm buttons [14:44] sebas: looking to 9.10, how would should we all be working together on this? [14:44] rickspencer3: you mean the notifications? [14:45] I mean the whole "notification system" [14:45] to us, the notification bubbles are part of a system for using the right methods of attracting a user's attention [14:45] rickspencer3: working with the upstream plasma team, or even discussing the ideas would make a lot of sense I think. We've done quite some work on these areas already, and ... our ideas are not matching the ubuntu spec, and I think for very good reasons [14:45] different kinds of things need different ways of notifiying users [14:45] rickspencer3: have you looked at the new system tray spec we started working on? [14:46] (Not that we did a good job documenting it ;)) [14:46] hehe [14:46] hi sebas, do you have pointers to that to speed up the discussion? [14:46] Right, that's exactly what the system tray in KDE will do [14:46] I'll look it up, sec [14:46] Riddell: conceptually system feedback (power/display information) is different information from a event notification [14:46] sounds like we need a forum to throw all the plans and ideas on the table [14:46] the user is in control of one, and not the other [14:47] just because it looks the same doesnt mean the same model applies [14:47] seele, that's true, and it was a toss-up whether we'd display them the same way or not [14:47] seele: also, the feedback has to be instantaneous for system feedback [14:47] yes, but it is important to make that distinction in your model, otherwise you fall in to the trap that "one is like the other, so it must follow..." [14:47] We do make the distinction [14:48] * seele checks the spec again [14:48] In they are labelled "notification bubbles" and "confirmation bubbles" [14:48] Confirmation bubbles confirm your pressing of keys for volume, brightness, etc, and appear instantly [14:48] Notification bubbles are for everything else, and are queued [14:49] Riddell: adding images should be easy enough :) [14:49] it's not confirmation, it's system feedback. confirmation means something else in most model taxonomies [14:50] and.. it's time to teach class. always the good conversations when i need to disappear [14:50] sebas: will you be at the desktop summit? [14:50] I don't know what a model taxonomy is, but "feedback" can also have multiple meanings :-) [14:50] mpt: there are multiple models for task analysis, a taxonomy is a consistent nomenclature for describing elements so everyone knows what you are talking about [14:51] rickspencer3: Which desktop summit? [14:51] combined Gaudek/aKademy [14:51] seele: that's right, they are different [14:51] rickspencer3, davidbarth: http://dot.kde.org/2009/02/11/plasma-team-looks-future has some pointers, I'm still trying to find our techbase page [14:51] seele: currently however, their layout is different, even if they are displayed with a similar look [14:52] http://vizzzion.org/stuff/systray-whiteboard.jpg here's a whiteboard shot from our design session [14:52] seele: it's a good warning that we need not make the assumption they are the same when designing new features around that model [14:53] The basic idea is that we categorize "stuff" that now ends up in the systray, so that we later can visualize it appropriately (i.e. not everything stuffed into the systray as it's now) [14:53] rickspencer3: sure will be [14:54] davidbarth, can you have a look at my message when you have a sec? [14:54] adding images is actually part of the plan, we already started implementing this, and in part it'll be in KDE 4.3 [14:54] sebas: ah nice, thanks [14:55] So the new systray spec allow apps to specify actions [14:55] it doesn't allow apps to control how those actions are visualised however [14:55] which makes for the consistency bit [14:56] sebas: sounds similar to the approach we've taken for the message indicator, ie a generic/system-wide facility to journal events and give some selected options to act on them [14:57] sebas: does the spec define the set of actions? or are they contributed by applications on the fly? [14:57] They're contributed by apps [14:57] Basically, apps offer a set of callbacks to the systray [14:58] makes a lot of sense (very oo'sih :> ) [14:58] So we get rid of that "apps embed their crap" system that makes it so horribly inconsistent [14:58] (and hard to control from the primary ui perspective) [14:58] sebas: sure [14:59] sebas: i guess limiting them is to complex/controversial [14:59] sebas: is there consideration for non-kde app notification integration, which is where this eventually will lead. [14:59] Well, it's not what we want, the systray is limited enough [15:00] sebas: where as a written policy could provide more sensible limits [15:00] We offer a basic set of functionality through the systray in a generic way, and apps that want more can create their own plasmoid for that [15:00] sebas: we don't want to locked down things, but we would like the system to be consistent and intelligible [15:00] sebas: ie, if the user expects application launchers or documents to be presented in a certain way [15:01] yeah, but apps are too diverse to be able to make up and maintain such a list [15:01] sebas: we would like to avoid that rogue application actions offer the same feature but it a totally different way [15:01] consistency is mostly taken care of because we control the visualisation [15:01] sebas: i agree, that's why a policy document is more efficient in this case (or an HIG if you prefer) [15:01] to be honest, I haven't seen apps doing that yet with the current system [15:01] sebas: and that's a very good thing [15:02] But that might be a limitation of that system [15:02] sebas: well.... i've seen tons of crazy stuff in the gnome applications [15:02] Yup, some sort of guideline is a good thing [15:02] sebas: when i was reviewing the code in search of notifications with actions... ;) [15:02] davidbarth: if ppl want crazy stuff, they can go all the way doing a plasmoid :> [15:02] sebas: uhuh ;) [15:03] I'm not saying crazy stuff is necessarily bad [15:03] sebas: neither am i; but we'd like to keep the crazy for us, and shielf Auntie Nora from it [15:03] s/shielf/shield/ [15:03] I'm personally doing at the moment some very rich "systray like" functionality, and I find it makes huge amount of sense [15:03] like? [15:04] http://commit-digest.org/issues/2009-02-01/ here's a mail notifier on steroids I'm hacking on the the mo [15:04] that's its own plasmoid of course [15:05] It's also stuff that's now in the systray, and which really shows the limitations tehre [15:06] sebas: that's the big window on the right, right? but it's using the old systray framework, not the one you were describing? or do i miss the point? [15:08] http://imagebin.ca/view/MZKMrtLb.html [15:08] Here's a more recent screenshot [15:09] It's a plasmoid, the "in panel" visualisation is not done yet [15:09] ok, will take a look [15:09] but +1 for being nempomuk aware [15:09] But it show which kind of functionality we can easily put right at your fingertips [15:09] With the idea in this case being that I only have to be disturbed once for an email [15:10] I'll be able to file / flag and trash it from the systray [15:10] Well, from lion mail :) [15:10] putting actions in direct context of the notification [15:10] (back) [15:11] sebas: the big divide from the past week as really been about what we call notifications and what they're supposed to do [15:11] sebas: in this case, i would say it's more about providing a new facility for applications to interact with the user [15:11] sebas: it's much more than a notification [15:11] Yes, absolutely [15:11] sebas: ie, you're not interrupting the user to inform him [15:12] sebas: you're really pushing information to him and expect feedback [15:12] Well, it'll be notifying you of new emails, so I do interrupt (when configured that way) [15:12] Well, yeah ... though feedback isn't mandatory [15:13] sebas: and that's the big divide... [15:13] But anyway ... I've to leave for some minutes [15:13] sebas: ie, if feedback is not mandatory, then it's not that good to "interrupt" [15:13] sebas: or rather, do it in a way that is visually an interuption [15:13] but all that i assume is going to be settled [15:14] mpt and seele should keep on discussing that [15:14] davidbarth: well, depends ... what I'm envisioning is that you can, per colletion define if it should interrupt you or not, and that you can configure that per activity [15:14] i try to be as neutral as possible here, but i do really think the distinction between, you know, the 4 ways of interacting with the user is a strong [15:14] so if you're working on Project ABC, you'll only get new email notifications for emails related to that project, for example [15:15] not a guideline, but a base for discussion [15:15] sebas: yes, i see the point [15:15] 2 ideas spring to mind [15:15] sebas, right, ideally Evolution and KMail etc would have options for "Notify me about messages in [choice of folder] by:" etc [15:16] if they're different they should be presented differently (thu shall not confuse your user) [15:16] so you could have filter-powered notifications [15:16] Lion Mail is not tied to a particular mail client, it's using Akonadi, mpt [15:16] and if it's quite difficult to get the configuration side right [15:16] yup [15:16] whoosh [15:16] for example, we were considering having a big preference panel, but opted for a per-application one [15:17] * mpt discovers what Akonadi is :-) [15:17] ie, the application and the user know better how all this work, whereas a central configuration switch would end up being a long confusing list of knobs [15:17] look at the growl system preferences on OS X [15:18] Not quite getting it but I'll be back in some minutes ... [15:18] ok, i will take a look at the pointers you sent [15:18] i have to go too (meeting) [15:19] but i'd like to bring this discussion to the xdg-list too, as a first effort to now standardize the galago (*not* FD.o ;) approach and the KDE approach [15:19] first acknowledging the differences for processing actions (ie, different daemons have different capabilities) [15:19] and then trying to work on the underlying theory [15:20] anyway, that was an interesting discussion [15:20]