[13:03] <ziroday> kwwii: ping
[13:08] <kwwii> ziroday: pong
[13:09] <ziroday> kwwii: hey, got your mail. Did you just send that?
[13:09] <kwwii> ziroday: yes
[13:09] <kwwii> about half an hour ago or so
[13:10] <ziroday> kwwii: right, was just wondering if my mail server was playing tricks on me again :)
[13:10] <ziroday> kwwii: yeah I would love to push that
[13:11] <ziroday> kwwii: what were you thinking of? Any specific place you want to target (DA, flickr etc) or just a wide competition?
[13:11] <kwwii> DA seems like the best place at the moment
[13:12] <kwwii> I'd like to try something like this out and see how it works, then we could do more
[13:12] <kwwii> flickr doesn't seem organized enough for me
[13:12] <ziroday> kwwii: yeah, DA has a serious community behind it
[13:12] <kwwii> also, I am discussing the idea with design schools
[13:12] <kwwii> ziroday: exactly
[13:12] <kwwii> ziroday: and I have a promise of something around 500€ for prize money, etc
[13:13] <kwwii> naturally, this is for jaunty +1
[13:13] <ziroday> kwwii: wow!
[13:13] <ziroday> kwwii: of course, of course
[13:13] <kwwii> ;)
[13:13] <ziroday> kwwii: well I doubt DA will budge unless somebody with a bigger title comes along (read: you)
[13:13] <_MMA_> kwwii: If you're gonna use DA for a competition don't do like the Inkscape guys and let it drag out forever. (their website contest)
[13:14] <ziroday> kwwii: and as for precedent wise, I know inkscape had a couple of competitions there, that didn't turn out so well
[13:14] <ziroday> _MMA_: jinx :P
[13:14] <_MMA_> ;)
[13:14] <_MMA_> They just let it go too long and people lost interest.
[13:14] <ziroday> kwwii: I can give you the lady who I was talking to in DA before
[13:15] <ziroday> kwwii: she has the authority, but is a hard ass
[13:16] <kwwii> ziroday: that would be awesome
[13:16] <kwwii> no worries, so is my boss :)
[13:16] <ziroday> haha
[13:17] <_MMA_> kwwii: I see we have a new guy lurking. :)
[13:17] <kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, just going to send an email to the list about that
[13:17] <kwwii> _MMA_: man, give me a chance!
[13:17] <_MMA_> hahahah
[13:18] <_MMA_> You'll get your chance. I'm going out for a bit.
[13:20] <ziroday> kwwii: http://anna.deviantart.com/
[13:20] <ziroday> kwwii: the only way I managed to get hold of her was sending notes via DA. The press and contact emails seem to be dead
[13:21] <ziroday> kwwii: now I still have the (very) rough guidelines from before, I can dig those up for you if you like
[13:29] <ziroday> kwwii: anyway I have to go now, mail or ping me if I can do anything (I love boring legwork)
[13:38] <kwwii> ziroday: will do
[13:38] <kwwii> sorry, had to grab lunch
[13:38] <kwwii> ziroday: the guidelines would be great, if you have them
[13:50] <SealV> I had to leave for classes yesterday, but good job on the login screen
[13:53] <kwwii> SealV: thnx
[13:56] <SealV> is there something you want us to be working on?
[13:57] <SealV> because the mailing list is mostly quibbles about random things. and breathe
[13:57] <SealV> whoops.. will be back in 2-3 hours
[14:00] <kwwii> SealV: I'll be back online in about 9 hours (flying home soon)
[14:02] <kwwii> SealV: at the moment, we could really use some good work on the wallpaper
[14:03] <kwwii> SealV: did you see the pdf I sent to the list?
[14:03] <kwwii> oops, too late
[14:05] <andreasn> kwwii, any luck with the relocation of the notification icons from human to hicolor?
[14:05] <andreasn> I bugged Macslow about it the other night, but he told me to bug you again :)
[14:06] <kwwii> andreasn: yes, I am working on it (just not atm)
[14:06] <andreasn> cool, great to hear
[14:06] <kwwii> andreasn: I hope to get it done either tomorrow or on the weekend
[14:07] <andreasn> oh, no hurry. I was mostly worried that it would be broken on the stable install.
[14:07] <kwwii> andreasn: I did tell the notification guys that they basically need to install the icons in the package to icon/hicolor/scalable/status instead of just in icons
[14:07] <kwwii> erm icons/hicolor...
[14:08] <andreasn> I think dobey recommended /usr/share/whatever-the-name-of-the-notify-thing-is/icons/hicolor/scalable/status
[14:09] <kwwii> andreasn: exactly :)
[14:09] <andreasn> I really don't know what the difference is, but he wanted that for some reason
[14:09] <kwwii> well, that is easier for me as all I have to do is tell the coders to do it :p
[14:09] <andreasn> :)
[14:10] <kwwii> andreasn: but when I do it, I want to rename everything first
[14:11] <kwwii> btw, if anyone is interested in the naming of these icons, please let me know!
[14:11] <kwwii> I don't *have* to do this all alone :p
[14:12] <andreasn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines#How do I get these slick icons
[14:12] <andreasn> sounds like pretty sane names to me, anything special you're thinking about?
[14:14] <kwwii> well, removing the upper case and fixing stupid mistakes, mainly
[14:14] <kwwii> *very-low doesn't make much sense
[14:14] <dashua> _MMA_: DarkMiu  http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_1.1235657572.png
[14:16] <andreasn> what use -very-low?
[14:17] <andreasn> the naming spec have something called *-caution for battery levels
[14:18] <dashua> Notice the blur on notify-osd.  Looks really good.
[14:18] <kwwii> erm, I seem to have fixed that one already :p
[14:19] <andreasn> where is the launchpad page?
[14:20] <kwwii> andreasn: for the icons? the ubuntu icons are directly in the human theme (so it would be on that page as well)
[14:20] <andreasn> ah, ok
[14:20] <kwwii> andreasn: notify-osd is the package name
[14:20] <andreasn> I'll see what I can do about the caps names
[14:21] <kwwii> andreasn: you do realize that I have put gnome icons in the package itself (and those are the ones that will go in /usr/share/icons/notify-osd/icons/hicolor/)
[14:21] <kwwii> andreasn: now worries, if you have better things to do let me take care of it on the weekend
[14:22] <SiDi> hello people
[14:23] <kwwii> hi SiDi
[14:28] <andreasn> kwwii, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-icon-theme/+bug/334472
[14:29] <dashua> SiDi: Hey, any luck with the updates?
[14:29] <SiDi> What do you mean dashua ?
[14:29] <SiDi> oh the Miu theme ?
[14:29] <dashua> Yeah
[14:29] <dashua> Still having issues?
[14:30] <SiDi> No
[14:30] <SiDi> it works great on thunar now, gz :p)
[14:30] <SiDi> damn i think i need to eat and sleep, i'm in a bad state atm :(
[14:30] <dashua> Ah good
[14:30] <kwwii> andreasn: lol, nice...should I make the gnome theme inherit from human?
[14:31] <andreasn> nooooooo!
[14:31] <kwwii> mat_t: hey!
[14:35] <mat_t> kwwii hi
[14:36] <kwwii> hey everyone...mat_t is this wierd guy sitting across from me in the office
[14:36] <kwwii> (he keeps staring!)
[14:36] <thorwil> kwwii: any opinion on my wallpaper concepts so far?
[14:36] <kwwii> actually, he is one of the members of our new design team
[14:36] <mat_t> hi everyone
[14:36] <thorwil> hi mat_t
[14:37] <kwwii> thorwil: actually, I wanted to talk to you about that
[14:37] <SiDi> hi mat_t
[14:37] <mat_t> good to meet you guys
[14:37] <kwwii> mat_t is the man when it comes to design ;)
[14:38] <SiDi> btw, does anyone know yet what will be the colours used in Karmic for the new theme ?
[14:38] <kwwii> SiDi: I heard pink
[14:39] <mat_t> SiDi, we haven't yet started thinking about it :)
[14:40] <mat_t> few ideas are hanging in the air, but nothing concrete atm
[14:40] <thorwil> mat_t: are you on the ubuntu-art mailing list?
[14:40] <SiDi> okies :)
[14:41] <mat_t> thorwil, not atm, but I will be shortly :)
[14:41] <kwwii> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[14:43] <thorwil> mat_t: do you have an online portfolio?
[14:44] <SiDi> reminds me i seriously should update mine. and the port 21 is blocked on my network, practical for FTP :(
[14:44] <mat_t> thorwil, not a personal website, but I used to work for an agency called Rawnet - www.rawnet.com
[14:45] <thorwil> ah, trendy :)
[14:45] <mat_t> thx ;)
[14:46] <thorwil> mat_t: you're the Senior Interactive Designer listed on their team, then
[14:47] <mat_t> I was, I think they still haven't taken me off the website :)
[14:47] <SiDi> means they miss you :p
[14:47] <mat_t> hahaha, they do apparently!
[14:47] <SiDi> What is the job of an Interactive Designer, by the way ?
[14:47] <mat_t> they're good guys, I miss them, too
[14:47]  * thorwil isn't pointing to the other less flattering explanation
[14:48]  * mat_t gets all soggy
[14:48]  * mat_t wonders what the other explanation may be
[14:49] <thorwil> mat_t: they didn't notice he departure? i'm sorry ;)
[14:49] <SiDi> hehe thorwil
[14:49] <swalko> thorwil: hi
[14:49] <thorwil> hi swalko
[14:49] <swalko> thorwil: today i readed wiki
[14:50] <swalko> thorwil: but i have much questions :)
[14:50] <swalko> more
[14:50] <thorwil> swalko: questions are there for being answered. go on :)
[14:51] <mat_t> thorwil, you can try calling rawnet and asking for me, see what happens. Maybe they'll start looking for me in the toilet desperately
[14:51] <mat_t> ;)
[14:51] <swalko> thorwil: breathe will be complete icons set (one time)
[14:51] <thorwil> heh
[14:52] <thorwil> swalko: yes
[14:52] <swalko> thorwil: there will be some icons choosed from oxygen icon set and reused?
[14:52] <swalko> thorwil: or parts od some oxygen icons
[14:53] <swalko> thorwil: of some icons
[14:53] <thorwil> swalko: i actually had something else in mind when you said "wiki". _MMA_ has the final say on anything breath. i will answer all i can, though
[14:54] <thorwil> swalko: at first, Oxygen is used to fill the gaps in Breath
[14:54] <swalko> thorwil: actualy is one big gap :)
[14:54] <thorwil> swalko: and it is well possible that some oxygen icons, just modified, will be used
[14:54] <swalko> thorwil: nothing bad
[14:55] <swalko> thorwil: modified is right word for me
[14:56] <swalko> thorwil: at example mimetypes icons
[14:56] <kwwii> I don't think that the plan is to include oxygen icons in the final set
[14:57] <kwwii> the idea was to make something similar to oxygen but unique to ubuntu
[14:57] <swalko> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Discussion use that background for mimetypes and reuse some parts (app logos) of oxygen icons?
[14:57] <kwwii> again, _MMA_ could tell you more
[14:58] <swalko> kwwii: has breathe icons set ambitions to be a "new ubuntu icons set"
[14:58] <thorwil> swalko: i don't think there has been a definite decision on how to go about the mimetype icons
[14:59] <swalko> thorwil: that was only example
[14:59] <kwwii> swalko: not necessarily, if it would be picked that would be nice but it is not being made with that intention
[14:59] <swalko> thorwil: for me i breathe looking like something that miss me in ubuntu
[14:59] <swalko> thorwil: and in gnome overall
[15:00] <thorwil> swalko: breath is meant to become a suitable option as ubuntu's default, but as we have no say on that, we don't rely on it
[15:00] <thorwil> or expect it
[15:00] <swalko> thorwil: good
[15:00] <thorwil> swalko: you mean you see something in breathe already that you miss elsewhere?
[15:01] <swalko> thorwil: today i cannot say if is it elsewhere, bacause in set are only few icons
[15:01] <SiDi> What i'd like to see in next releases is Dust + Kin + all those new themes designed at the ubuntu wiki instead of the old gnome themes installed by default in /usr/share/themes
[15:01] <SiDi> that'd be great
[15:02] <swalko> thorwil: from my look gnome overall use old styled icons
[15:03] <swalko> thorwil: and need renew
[15:04] <swalko> thorwil: or need "oxygen for gnome" (in meaning modern icon set)
[15:04] <swalko> thorwil: not concrete style or concrete icons set
[15:06] <kwwii> SiDi: indeed, I would also like to remove the cruft from the themes
[15:08] <swalko> may i find somewhere on net real new ubuntu theme?
[15:08] <andreasn> kwwii, cruft?
[15:09] <kwwii> andreasn: old stuff, I mean :)
[15:09] <andreasn> older looking widget themes n stuff?
[15:10] <andreasn> maybe we should lobby thos again to get rid of glider
[15:11] <andreasn> but in order to remove Mist, we need to come up with a widget set that still have the heavy steel feeling to it
[15:11] <andreasn> to replace it with
[15:14] <SiDi> well, it wouldnt be *so* hard to package them in a gnome-legacy-themes and to add an installed-by-default community-themes package containing all the themes you peeps do
[15:14] <andreasn> and Mist is flat and fast (I haven't seen any numbers though), even though the right solution probably is to make all the other ones faster
[15:15] <andreasn> SiDi, possibly. I'm looking at this from the upstream perspective, no idea about Ubuntu
[15:16] <andreasn> and I don't really care about themes or backgrounds, since everyone else care about that too much :)
[15:17] <SiDi> well, when former windows users come to ubuntu, they say "omg the themes apart from default are ugly", actually forgetting the non-default theme on windows is kinda ugly, too
[15:18] <andreasn> oh, really?
[15:18] <SiDi> not all of them say "omg", to be honnest :>
[15:19] <andreasn> I thought the general opinion was that the default was not optimal
[15:19] <andreasn> even though I've come to notice that most people don't really care
[15:19] <SiDi> Well, amongst the installed themes, i mean
[15:19] <SiDi> yeh most of people dont care or dont want to bother with switching. but if those dont like the default theme they may aswell stop using ubuntu, just for that
[15:20] <andreasn> as the important part is the things like the content in the web browser, the fact that Ooo works etc.
[15:20] <SiDi> what i mean is people who have a look at the theme choose window and see only old themes, etc.
[15:24] <andreasn> SiDi, would you like to collect some proper user testimonials about this? like written down and stuff?
[15:24] <andreasn> from like 20 people ()
[15:24] <andreasn> (or maybe 10 will do)
[15:24] <SiDi> err i dont have that much people whose pc i installed ubuntu on :)
[15:25] <andreasn> I think that could be quite useful
[15:25] <SiDi> well i'll do
[15:25] <SiDi> but i dont think i'll get that many :)
[15:25] <andreasn> because all we have right now is testimonials from ourselves
[15:26] <andreasn> and that kind of sucks :)
[15:26] <SiDi> basically i'm making my family use ubuntu, so i'll ask them their points of view, etc
[15:26] <SiDi> but as they usually throw me out for opensource fanatism when i say a word about linux (unless its because they have trouble with their pcs, of course), it might take time..
[15:29] <kwwii> I think that it is important for ubuntu to ship with a decent set of beautifull themes and that currently the gnome-themes package does need some sorting out
[15:31] <andreasn> so we would need replacements for one heavy (and cool), one light, one dark, hm, am I forgetting something now?
[15:31] <andreasn> one pink?
[15:33] <SiDi> hehe pink defo :D
[15:33] <SiDi> well, there are not that much different themes in default gnome
[15:34] <SiDi> apart from mist/industrial/crux, the others are not very used, i think
[15:34] <kwwii> yeah, crux....ouch
[15:34] <SiDi> and we have darkroom, dust, kin, miu, impression, human reprise that could be shipped by default
[15:34] <kwwii> I do think that having something like mist is really important as well
[15:34] <kwwii> but crux can be crucified ;)
[15:34] <SiDi> crux's icons, i meant :P when i get bored of gnome ones on old redhat pcs at uni, i put those
[15:34] <kwwii> :p
[15:35] <kwwii> purple is nice
[15:35] <SiDi> yeh :p
[15:35] <SiDi> btw, does any of you know where i'm likely to find the human theme, but in other colours ?
[15:36] <SiDi> i know a guy packed them on gnome-look.org with a lot of choice, but the site he uploaded them at is down
[15:38] <andreasn> kwwii, I'm not too happy about crux either, but I keep seeing it being used at conferences (I have no idea why)
[15:39] <andreasn> but I brought it up with thos, and we both think we should have something good to replace it with
[15:39] <SiDi> Well, people like purple apparently :p
[15:40] <kwwii> andreasn: yeah, I loved it about 6-7 years ago
[15:40] <andreasn> basically something heavy chrome-thing, kind of like how Apple Finder looks like in the most recent release
[15:41] <andreasn> not copied right off, but something in the same metal styl
[15:41] <andreasn> e
[15:45] <SiDi> not copied off, that'd be great :D
[15:45] <SiDi> i'm so so so sick of the macos/windows clones
[15:48] <SiDi> see you later, out of power on the laptop :)
[16:25] <thorwil> firefox and compiz both like to eat my memory
[16:28]  * _MMA_ is back.
[16:36] <swalko> _MMA_: hi
[16:37] <_MMA_> hi
[16:39] <swalko> _MMA_: i readed wiki
[16:40] <swalko> _MMA_: i want to talk with you about breathe
[16:40] <_MMA_> sure
[16:41] <swalko> _MMA_: i readed on wiki that some oxygen icons may be used or reused
[16:41] <_MMA_> Yes
[16:42] <swalko> _MMA_: have you some idea about criterias for choosing that icons?
[16:43] <_MMA_> Final goal is to redraw everything but if someone wants to reuse Oxygen thats fine.
[16:43] <swalko> _MMA_: my idea is
[16:43] <swalko> _MMA_: use some parts from oxygen icons
[16:43] <swalko> _MMA_: or for start use more oxygen icons
[16:44] <_MMA_> No criteria. Just personal preference. If someone makes a proposal that doesnt fit with what we are currently doing it doesnt go into Breathe.
[16:44] <swalko> _MMA_: with comming time their may be polished or replaced
[16:45] <_MMA_> swalko: What you said is already the plan. And I believe already mentioned on the wiki. I know Ive said it in emails. If not on the wiki I will post it there as well.
[16:46] <swalko> _MMA_: you are author od currently done icons?
[16:46] <swalko> _MMA_: of
[16:47] <_MMA_> The ones that use pieces of Oxygen I have done. The rest have been done by Sebastien.
[16:48] <swalko> _MMA_: it will be good if will be posted table with missing icons or urgently need icons
[16:49] <swalko> _MMA_: at example icon for desktop
[16:49] <_MMA_> swalko: Anything that doesn't have a image in the /Icons section of the wiki needs done.
[16:49] <swalko> _MMA_: almost everything :)
[16:49] <_MMA_> And as we're on no time-table, nothing is "urgent"
[16:50] <swalko> _MMA_: and what about small icon sizes?
[16:50] <_MMA_> What about them?
[16:50] <swalko> _MMA_: at example tray icons
[16:51] <swalko> _MMA_: it will not be better if these icons will be done in black/white version too?
[16:51] <_MMA_> If you want to work on one that isn't listed in the list (the list is mostly based off the FreeDesktop spec) go right ahead.
[16:51] <_MMA_> swalko: As the tech for the "tray only" icons aren't final yet, they aren't a focus.
[16:52] <_MMA_> If you want to keep up with what's going on there and work on those icons that would be great.
[16:52] <swalko> _MMA_: i may try to do some an we see if they will be usable
[16:53] <_MMA_> ok
[16:54] <_MMA_> swalko: As of now, the set mostly focuses on the icons needed for the FreeDesktop spec. Obviously ones will be needed outside of that and we will work on them or add them as they come.
[16:55] <swalko> _MMA_: may you post link to freedesktop specs?
[16:56] <_MMA_> It is linked to in the wiki. :) Should be on the front page. ;)
[16:56] <swalko> _MMA_: ok thanks
[16:57] <_MMA_> I really worked hard to add all the info needed for people to get involved. There will always be little things to add but for the most part the info there should cover the majority of the questions one would have.
[17:01] <_MMA_> swalko: I'm sorry. The link is at the top of the pages for the sections of the icons.
[17:01] <SealV> morning all
[17:01] <_MMA_> I'll add a not to the frontpage in a min.
[17:01]  * _MMA_ waves.
[17:01] <_MMA_> S/NOT/NOTE
[17:01] <_MMA_> (damn caps lock)
[17:03] <SealV> I have my casp lock reconfiged to a meta key under windows, no idea how to do that in linux
[17:05] <SealV> bloody hell, MMA is there any reason why the start here icon even needs to be 128 pix?
[17:06] <SealV> I mean it is essentially only going to be used on panels, right?
[17:07] <_MMA_> SealV: For use in other places, yeah. You know, that post to the list about the Brazian theme or something. The one with the attached screenshots. That had a nice looking logo in it. I think something like that would do. It was subtle but nice.
[17:07] <_MMA_> I'll post a link in a min if you don't know what I'm talking about.
[17:07] <_MMA_> (trying to wrap up some things around the house)
[17:09] <SealV> link me when you get the chance :)
[17:10] <_MMA_> k
[17:10] <SealV> found it
[17:10] <_MMA_> cool
[17:10] <_MMA_> I think it was the one used on the GDM.