[07:11] <pitti> Good morning
[07:11] <mnemo> good morning pitti
[07:13] <pitti> xhaker: seems that asac already replied to the firefox translation problem?
[07:13] <pitti> asac, bryce: this deletion came from Debian, so was semi-automatically
[07:14] <pitti> hey mnemo!
[07:14] <bryce> pitti: yes asac noted that.  I think we sorted it out though.  xtrace seems to have superseded xmon
[07:15] <bryce> although it's not clear if maybe xmon was still worth keeping, but I'll leave that to asac to say
[07:56] <didrocks> good morning
[08:14] <hyperair> hi. what's the WM_CLASS of the notify-osd popups?
[08:14] <hyperair> or any other thing i can use to match in ccsm?
[08:17] <mnemo> hyperair: maybe you can use "xprop | grep WM_CLASS" and then point to the notification window in order to find out?
[08:18] <hyperair> mnemo: doesn't work.
[08:18] <hyperair> mnemo: i tried, and it went right through to the window underneath
[08:20] <didrocks> mvo: Hi :) seb128 told me "ok" yesterday in respond to what I pasted to you
[08:24] <mvo> didrocks: ok, doing it now
[08:25] <mnemo> hyperair: try "xlsclients -l" and find the app hosting the popups, then use "xwininfo -name BLAH" to find the window id, and finally do "xprop -id WIN_ID"
[08:25] <hyperair> hmm okay..
[08:25] <didrocks> mvo: thanks :)
[08:26] <seb128> hello there
[08:26] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:26] <seb128> guten tag pitti
[08:27] <seb128> how are you?
[08:27] <pitti> seb128: grumpy at the retracers which broke again... investigating
[08:27] <pitti> seb128: but in general, well
[08:27] <pitti> but horribly behind on TODO and email
[08:27]  * seb128 knows this feeling
[08:28] <pitti> I ought to not sync any email and not look at IRC for two days and catch up with everything
[08:28] <seb128> I spent my day cleaning evolution bugs yesterday I think that was productive, I managed to get upstream to fix some of the issues directly after doing IRC debugging
[08:28] <pitti> rocking
[08:28] <pitti> seb128: that didn't happen to include fixing google calendar by any chance? :-)
[08:29] <seb128> no, that one is known to be buggy and not trivial work
[08:29] <pitti> I don't see the gcal entries at all any more, neither in clock nor in evo itself
[08:29] <pitti> seb128: I guess they just disabled it for now until it's fixed, to avoid the hangs?
[08:30] <pitti> retracers> oh, loks like launchpad rollout
[08:30] <seb128> I don't know, I would have to check, the jaunty hang which has been fixed was a one liner bug fix to not do buggy libical calls
[08:30] <seb128> pitti: ah right that would explain that
[08:31] <pitti> lots of LaunchpadURLError
[08:33] <hyperair> mnemo: i nailed the issue with name=notify-osd =p
[08:33] <hyperair> mnemo: thanks for your help
[08:33] <mnemo> np
[08:34] <hyperair> mnemo: notify-osd was transitioning out twice. one by notify-osd, one by compiz
[08:34] <didrocks> hey seb128 :)
[08:35] <seb128> didrocks: hello
[08:40] <mvo> seb128: we are still in soft-freeze, right? no sposnoring ...
[08:40] <seb128> mvo: indeed, at least no CD sponsoring
[08:42] <mvo> thanks
[08:42] <asac> bryce: i cannot say. i didnt get xmon to work ;) ... and xtrace doesnt follow forks ;)
[08:43] <asac> ArneGoetje: have you figured why current langpacks are borked?
[08:43] <asac> e.g. for mozilla: -fi -> empty, -pt -> no pt-PT, etc.
[08:44] <asac> i looked into it yesterday and found a few issues that can be improvd in po2xpi transformer, but in general i think it must be kind of base vs. incremental export thing
[08:59]  * asac gets a tea
[09:20] <seb128> vuntz: hello
[09:29] <lool> asac: Hey, I managed to understand a bug I have since some weeks with firefox, but it's a bit weird and I wanted to check with you whether it makes sense to track it in launchpad: I open middle-click in a fresh tab to load an URL, then I switch back to some other app with alt-tab because I know it will take some time to load
[09:30] <lool> asac: If I'm too quick, middle-mouse-click is followed closely by <Alt> and firefox opens the "Save as" dialog and offers me to save the page at the URL as a .html
[09:31] <lool> I suspect the events are reordered (I open have this problem when I type in a terminal e.g. « " » + middle-click to paste + « " » => « "" <URL> » instead of « "<URL>" »
[09:32] <lool> asac: Does that sound like something useful to report to firefox?  or to xorg?  perhaps it's expected behavior that these events are in two queues and might mix
[09:32] <lool> I had in mind that perhaps firefox could check whether the alt modifier is set in the middle-click event, but I don't know whether the info is present
[09:36] <asac> lool: sounds a bit related to the "random menu item activated" bug we have
[09:36] <asac> though middle mouse is a bit unsure
[09:37] <asac> lool: why is it important to have middle mouse followed by ALT in your case?
[09:38] <asac> lool: maybe you use "middle mouse button emulation" and in fact its right click?
[09:38] <lool> asac: As I was saying, I often paste into a new tab and switch back to the app (usually a terminal, for instance my mail reader), with alt-tab
[09:39] <lool> asac: Emulate3Buttons is indeed turned on, but I'm using the real middle mouse button (I'm on a thinkpad which has both a three buttons and a two buttons mouse)
[09:40] <asac> lool: heh. i think i could reproduce ;)
[09:40] <lool> Cool
[09:42] <asac> thats really annoying
[09:43] <asac> again i need a good xevent tracer
[09:43] <lool> asac: There was this X proxy
[09:43] <lool> asac: I think it's xtrace
[09:43] <asac> xtrace seems to be the new hot thing
[09:43] <asac> but that doesnt support -f (like strace)
[09:44] <asac> so firefox just forks away
[09:44] <asac> and no events are ever retrieved
[09:44] <lool> xtrace is actually an old thing, it used ot be broken for me, but it was updated recently
[09:44] <asac> also has no pid or windowid option :(
[09:44] <lool> Can't you run the firefox bin directly, disregarding any running firefox?
[09:44] <asac> could be. ... seems that debian thinks it superseeded xmon ... and removed it
[09:45] <lool> Hmm I used to use xmon too I think, blah
[09:45] <asac> lool: no. it always forks on startup
[09:45] <asac> dont ask me why
[09:45] <asac> i needed to use -f since ever with strace ;)
[09:46] <asac> lool: i have xmon now ... do you know how i can simply monitor a process for X events ;)?
[09:46] <lool> Weird, I wouldn't expect a fork to help startup time
[09:46] <asac> like button/key
[09:46] <asac> the UI is really complex
[09:46] <lool> No, I don't recall at all :-)
[09:47] <asac> well. if you start early ;) the process is still small
[09:47] <asac> fork early i mean
[09:48] <asac> the reason they do that is that they need to restart ffox in case there are component/chrome/extension updates
[09:48] <asac> at least i would think thats the reason ;)
[10:03] <asac> lool: so you are right. the openUILink stuff is used generic fashion and if there is "alt" it will save
[10:04] <asac> but there is a "true" for ignoreAlt to prevent that
[10:04] <asac> strange that it hits the case anyway
[10:07] <asac> lool: are you using ffox 3.0 or 3.1?
[10:07] <lool> asac: 3.0
[10:11] <asac> lool: please replace your browser.jar with http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/browser.jar
[10:11] <asac> and use it for a while
[10:11] <asac> hopefully its gone
[10:12] <asac> its in /usr/lib/firefox-3.0.*/chrome/
[10:12] <lool> Will try
[10:18] <asac> filed mozilla bug 480290
[10:21] <asac> ok pach attached
[10:43] <asac> seb128: do you need more input/help on the evolution network-manager integration thing? not sure if you said that upstream is on it now or not.
[10:44] <seb128> asac: it's fixed to svn and I verified the fix
[10:44] <seb128> asac: I told you on IRC yesterday but you probably didn't notice ;-)
[10:47] <asac> seb128: great
[11:14] <Ng> hmm, my keyring stuff is still borked after rebooting
[11:25] <fta> seb128, thanks for gwibber!
[11:25] <seb128> fta: you're welcome, thanks to slangasek who double check too to make sure it was ok since that was after the freeze now ;-)
[11:28] <tjaalton> nice, hot-logging in gnome takes only 5s now
[11:28] <fta> seb128, excellent. I'm sorry it took 3 rounds to let it pass but now it's history ;)
[11:33] <seb128> fta: that's ok
[11:40] <sabdfl> we love gwibber :-)
[11:41] <seb128> indeed!
[11:41]  * seb128 lucnh
[11:41] <seb128> lunch
[11:41] <seb128> bbl
[11:43] <seb128> bbl
[12:01] <hyperair> does anyone know how the indicator-applet is supposed to work?
[12:01] <hyperair> i've got.. indicator-applet, evolution-indicator, both enabled, and all i see is "No Indicators"
[12:14] <davidbarth> hyperair: you need to add the indicator to your panel
[12:16] <davidbarth> hyperair: make sure also to disable the old mail notification plugin in evolution, or you'll get notifications twice, and one of them will display in a dialog box at that...
[12:32] <asac> davidbarth: for me there is no icon nor text next to the indicator applet grib in panel
[12:45] <davidbarth> asac, hyperair: the indicator only appears when you have a new message and the application is not focused
[12:46] <davidbarth> asac, hyperair: ie, if you have evolution opened and focused, the indicator applet will never annoy you with something you already know
[12:54] <hyperair> asac: i've added the indicator applet to my panel
[12:54] <hyperair> i mean
[12:54] <hyperair> davidbarth: ^
[12:54] <hyperair> and the indicator applet says "No Indicators"
[12:55] <hyperair> also i have the notification plugin enabled
[12:55] <hyperair> and it pops up the icon
[12:55] <hyperair> basically i've got the window de-focused
[12:55] <hyperair> and the indicator applet says "No indicators"
[12:55] <hyperair> even when i've got new mail
[13:04] <kenvandine[work]> good morning all
[13:05] <hyperair> morning
[13:06] <pitti> hey kenvandine[work]
[13:07] <ArneGoetje> asac: I didn't know mozilla translations were broken until you mentioned it.
[13:08] <ArneGoetje> asac: only in Jaunty or also Hardy and Intrepid?
[13:27] <asac> ArneGoetje: i havent looked. not sure if you rolled them oput
[13:27] <asac> ArneGoetje: so far i only heard of jaunty
[13:27] <asac> ArneGoetje: check dpkg -L language-pack-pt  | grep langpack.*mozi
[13:27] <asac> ArneGoetje: and dpkg -L language-pack-fi  | grep langpack.*mozi
[13:27] <asac> and -base
[13:38] <ArneGoetje> asac: the -pt ones have been changed from pt_PT -> pt
[13:38] <ArneGoetje> asac: fi should be there though...
[13:40] <asac> ArneGoetje: so what i found out is that previously to jaunty we had pt-BR.po and pt.po ... now we have pt-PT.po on top
[13:40] <asac> however, that didnt cause the issue; the po2xpi processor had a bug, but that shouldnt have led to the removal
[13:40] <asac> same for es*.po
[13:40] <asac> we should tell jtv about those bogus exports
[13:41] <asac> ArneGoetje: what we need is a log
[13:41] <asac> ArneGoetje: from the langpack-o-matic run of po2xpi
[13:41] <asac> maybe the problem is also related to base vs. update export
[13:43] <ArneGoetje> asac: langpack-o-matic -> pitti. he knows more about that.
[13:43] <asac> pitti: ^^
[13:44] <ArneGoetje> asac: I just approved your xulrunner fi upload.
[13:44] <asac> ArneGoetje: my?
[13:44] <ArneGoetje> asac: yep.
[13:44] <asac> i didnt upload anything for ages
[13:44] <ArneGoetje> asac: it was stuck in the queue...
[13:44] <asac> hmm
[13:45] <ArneGoetje> asac: ha... tha's why fi is missing...
[13:45] <asac> ArneGoetje: dont you preserve logs for runs?
[13:45] <asac> ArneGoetje: dont understand. its just a langpack update; the old bits should still be there?
[13:45] <ArneGoetje> asac: we do
[13:45] <asac> but could be of course
[13:45] <asac> but pt-PT is still a mystery
[13:45] <asac> ArneGoetje: can you get that log?
[13:46] <ArneGoetje> asac: fi was stuck in the import queue, if that one is not approved, newer updates won't go in either.
[13:46]  * ArneGoetje is looking
[13:54] <ArneGoetje> asac: right... fi is broken, pt and es are missing... I will investigate
[13:55] <asac> ArneGoetje: do you merge the base + incremental tarballs? otherwise please check whether there are really three pt.*po in the incremental pack
[13:55] <asac> maybe its just pt-BR - which might cause the po2xpi converter to run into troubles
[13:57] <asac> ArneGoetje: maybe you have added some santizing code that removes the bogus exports for pt and es and other?
[13:57] <asac> ArneGoetje: which causes the mozilla files to be removed by accident?
[14:01] <ArneGoetje> asac: no, I think that was my mistake when importing them in the first place... because Rosetta asks me which language the xpi should be imported into. For pt-PT I chose pt_PT and not pt, like I should... same for es-ES: should have gone into es, but went into es_ES
[14:01] <asac> ArneGoetje: well. as i said, i ran the po2xpi processor on the full export and it had no issues with fi nor pt
[14:02] <ArneGoetje> will ask jtv to marge those back where they belong.
[14:02] <asac> its just that we have pt-PT and pt in there now ;)
[14:02] <ArneGoetje> /marge/merge
[14:02] <asac> but that doesnt hurt. the files that are produced are definitly not in the packages ... so if you have logs i can see whether the problem is before quickly
[14:04] <ArneGoetje> asac: yep, according to the log, they were not in the updates tarball
[14:08] <ArneGoetje> asac: I will ask jtv
[14:09] <asac> ArneGoetje: could be that pt.po didnt change while pt-BR.po did
[14:09] <ArneGoetje> asac: yes
[14:09] <asac> ArneGoetje: i think lang-pack-o-matic would need some magic to merge missing sub-langs from the base tarball
[14:09] <ArneGoetje> asac: that's why they have to be merged
[14:09] <asac> right ;)
[14:09] <asac> ArneGoetje: but why the hell did this start to happen now?
[14:09] <asac> ArneGoetje: you need to merge them in langpack-o-matic i think
[14:10] <asac> dont wait for launchpad ... that will probably take too long ;)
[14:11] <asac> ArneGoetje: also the -base packages are empty wrt to mozilla
[14:11] <asac> maybe thats the real problem here
[14:11] <asac> and we just need to force another full export?
[14:12] <ArneGoetje> asac: we will have a new full export before release, but if we need one earlier, I can request one.
[14:13] <asac> ArneGoetje: so if fi.po is missing in the partial export and the pt + es things too
[14:13] <asac> ArneGoetje: then please request one
[14:13] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok
[14:13] <asac> sounds unnecessary risky to wait until last export before release
[14:13] <asac> thanks
[14:14] <asac> lets do that then and see how well it works out ;)
[14:14] <ArneGoetje> asac: ok
[14:14] <asac> if fixed po2xpi to properly dfeal with the "bad" exports. so that shouldnt be a problem either
[14:32] <lool> mvo: Around?  Not very interesting but this merge into compiz https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lool/compiz/ubuntu/+merge/1869 is open since November   O:-)
[14:33] <seb128> pitti: your camera issue is bug #326029
[14:42] <mvo> lool: *cough* I merge it now
[14:42] <mvo> lool: I think I did something wrong with LP, I want to get mails for merging proposals, but I don#t get them
[14:44] <james_w> mvo: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~compiz/compiz/ubuntu/+addsubscriber
[14:44] <james_w> add yourself or compiz packagers there
[14:44] <james_w> and choose the type of mails you want
[14:45] <james_w> the defaults are probably what you want
[14:45] <james_w> I believe the branch owner is now subscribed by default, but I don't think that was retro-active
[14:47] <mvo> james_w: aha, ok. thanks a lot
[14:47] <mvo> james_w: I do that for all my projects now
[14:51] <mvo> lool: merged, sorry for the delay
[14:55]  * hyperair wonders if there will be a way to configure notify-osd to allow actions/custom timeouts/whatever in the future
[14:56] <lool> mvo: that's fine; FYI there's another merge pending
[14:56] <lool> not by me though
[14:57] <lool> james_w: ah it's not the default
[15:01] <lool> Weird, I see Default Review Team compiz packagers, I'd expect these to receive a note
[15:03] <seb128> lut huats
[15:03] <huats> hello seb128
[15:03] <seb128> huats: how are you?
[15:04] <huats> seb128: a bit better... but not that weel yet :(
[15:04] <huats> how are you ?
[15:04] <seb128> huats: oh what do you have? I just though you were busy due to work change
[15:04] <seb128> huats: good thank you
[15:04] <huats> busy and sick :(
[15:04] <huats> (fever and all that nice things)
[15:04] <seb128> take care then
[15:05] <huats> I am trying to recover :)
[15:05] <huats> I think I will ask for a FF for anjuta
[15:05] <seb128> I can grant freeze exception for desktop component in universe so it's granted
[15:06] <lool> mvo: Sorry to bother again, I'm going through old team merge requests I got: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~brian-thomason/app-install-data-commercial/partner/+merge/1658 can't find the missing revs though, and you seem to know this branch; mind having a look?
[15:06] <huats> ok thanks :)
[15:06] <huats> hum ?
[15:07] <seb128> huats: what?
[15:07] <huats> seb128: there was a graphical glitch with previous lool msg but it is ok :)
[15:08]  * lool glitches
[15:08] <huats> ;)
[15:08] <dashua> mvo: How did you make out with the adding the protobuf dependencies for Compiz?
[15:09] <dashua> Need testing for your PPA?
[15:10] <mvo> lool: thanks, merging that too
[15:11] <mvo> dashua: I put it into my ~mvo ppa for now along with a compiz version that has some profiling output. if you want to run it, that is very welcome, for me it gives ~2s startup time (with protobuf and cache) compared to 3s without
[15:12] <mvo> dashua: that sounds encouraging, unfortunately some other things in libcompizconfig changed (notably global.xml got removed) so updating is a bit of owrk because our default options need now applied as indivial pactches on the core, plugins-main,extra packages
[15:12] <mvo> (profiling information is printed on stdout)
[15:13] <dashua> Ah, alright.  Maybe a future endeavor then?
[15:13] <dashua> Sounds like a lot of extra work for a sec =/
[15:15] <mvo> dashua: I have a fast machine, I happy to do the work if its worthwhile especially on lower end machines
[15:16] <dashua> My laptop is fast as well, so this may make a big difference on a lower end box.
[15:16] <kenvandine[work]> seb128: jcastro said you guys decided at the sprint to revert that horizontal volume slider
[15:16] <dashua> Ok cool :)
[15:16] <mvo> and at some point the needs needs to be done anyway. so I'm leaning toward adding it, but I wait for futher feedback
[15:16] <kenvandine[work]> seb128: is there an open bug to do that?
[15:17] <dashua> mvo: I'll uninstall master and test your packages later on :)
[15:17] <mvo> thanks dashua :)
[15:17] <dashua> Np
[15:17] <seb128> kenvandine[work]: we decided that?
[15:17] <kenvandine[work]> according to jcastro
[15:17] <kenvandine[work]> jcastro: ^^
[15:17] <seb128> kenvandine[work]: we decide to use the alsa, gstreamer controls and not the new pulseaudio ones
[15:17] <seb128> decided
[15:18] <seb128> which we did
[15:18] <seb128> gnome-volume-control is the intrepid version
[15:18] <seb128> we rolled back the gnome-settings-daemon volume actions
[15:18] <seb128> we build gnome-sound-properties
[15:18] <seb128> and we don't build the new notification area control but the gnome-applets volume applet rather
[15:18] <seb128> upstream did some changes to the look and feel of this one this cycle though
[15:19] <seb128> ie, changed the orientation and added the button
[15:19] <seb128> I'm not decided if that's worth changing back
[15:19] <seb128> the issue we had was to let users run alsa only if they want
[15:19] <seb128> not to fight every ui change
[15:19] <seb128> does what I write make sense? ;-)
[15:19] <kenvandine[work]> yes
[15:20] <seb128> I'm open to discussion about changing the slider
[15:20] <seb128> I think upstream did the change to add the volume control button and mute box
[15:20] <kenvandine[work]> yeah... it feels awkward to me
[15:20] <pitti> IMHO there's no reason to deviate from that
[15:20] <kenvandine[work]> but completely convinced it is wrong
[15:21] <kenvandine[work]> whoops
[15:21] <seb128> kenvandine[work]: maybe you can open a gnome-applets bug on bugzilla about that?
[15:21] <kenvandine[work]> but not completely convinced it is wrong
[15:21] <seb128> one issue we have with the new one is that it goes out of screen if placed near a border
[15:21] <pitti> if that's going to be reverted, then it should happen upstream, yes
[15:21] <pitti> seb128: I think that was fixed
[15:21] <jcastro> wait, so is the new slider horizontal or vertical?
[15:21] <pitti> I had that problem, and it's gone now
[15:21] <seb128> pitti: oh indeed
[15:21] <kenvandine[work]> jcastro: horizontal
[15:21] <seb128> pitti: I didn't try for a while but you are right
[15:22]  * seb128 goes to close the bug
[15:22] <pitti> ♪ another one bites the dust ♫ ♬
[15:22] <kenvandine[work]> :)
[15:22] <seb128> pitti: indeed ;-)
[15:22] <kenvandine[work]> horizontal feels awkward to me... but i am tainted from years of vertical
[15:23] <kenvandine[work]> it is nice to have mute and volume controls button there on a left click
[15:23] <kenvandine[work]> people struggle knowing when to right click imho
[15:23] <kenvandine[work]> like i said... i am not convinced
[15:23] <seb128> right, that's why they did the change
[15:23] <kenvandine[work]> jcastro: what do you think? should we open a bug upstream for more discussion?
[15:23] <seb128> I think calum did that
[15:23]  * kenvandine[work] knows jcastro always has opinions
[15:24] <jcastro> if we feel strongly, sure
[15:24] <seb128> "we" being?
[15:24]  * kenvandine[work] doesn't feel strongly
[15:24] <jcastro> what do you think seb?
[15:24] <seb128> we didn't get any user complain so far out of the "out of screen" issue which is fixed now
[15:24] <seb128> I think I don't use this applet
[15:24] <seb128> I use the mouse scroll on the icon not the slider
[15:24] <jcastro> people were complaining about it the first time.
[15:24] <seb128> they were complaining about it getting out of screen rather
[15:25] <kenvandine[work]> seb128: i didn't know that worked!
[15:25] <jcastro> though tbh I started using my wheel on my keyboard so I can see the new notification bling.
[15:25] <kenvandine[work]> awesome
[15:25] <jcastro> kenvandine[work]: that works on app volume controls too (totem, etc.)
[15:25] <kenvandine[work]> should we see the notify-osd if we use the mouse scrollwheel over it?
[15:25] <seb128> I'm not sure
[15:26]  * kenvandine[work] thinks we should... but we don't
[15:26] <seb128> I think that's rather a power user thing and they might not like getting too much visual noise
[15:26] <kenvandine[work]> true, it isn't obvious
[15:26] <kenvandine[work]> but it is the only way those of us without multimedia keyboards can get the bling :)
[15:26] <kenvandine[work]> but i don't really care much :)
[15:27] <seb128> hehe
[15:27] <kenvandine[work]> i guess i will when i get that new t400... can't wait!
[15:28] <kenvandine[work]> seb128: do you generally use rythmbox?
[15:28] <seb128> when I listen to music on the computer yes
[15:28] <kenvandine[work]> i hate that word... i never spell it right
[15:28] <seb128> why?
[15:28] <kenvandine[work]> seb128: does it stutter to you when you do things that spike the cpu?
[15:29] <seb128> no
[15:29] <kenvandine[work]> i never use it, but in my notify-osd testing i noticed it stutters a fair bit when i alt-tab with compiz on
[15:29] <kenvandine[work]> but banshee doesn't
[15:29] <seb128> bug #193578
[15:29] <seb128> try enabling the crossfading option maybe
[15:29] <kenvandine[work]> in rb?
[15:29] <seb128> I think that's suggested in this bug, that will change buffering
[15:29] <seb128> yes
[15:29] <kenvandine[work]> ah
[15:30] <seb128> you can also try without pulseaudio, that's another cause of frequent issues
[15:30] <pitti> it'll almost certainly work without pusle
[15:30] <pitti> plain alsa never caused me such problems :/
[15:31] <kenvandine[work]> ok, enabling crossfading did help
[15:31] <james_w> seb128: I heard a couple of grumbles about the horizontal orientation. Nothing on the level of some of the other changes though :-)
[15:31] <kenvandine[work]> i wonder if we should enable that by default, just to improve the user experience
[15:32] <kenvandine[work]> that stutter sucks... not that i ever plan to use rb more than just testing stuff :)
[15:32]  * kenvandine[work] hugs his banshee
[15:32] <seb128> kenvandine[work]: look at crossfading bugs, there was some side effects issues
[15:32]  * pitti hugs rhythmbox
[15:32]  * kenvandine[work] looks
[15:32]  * seb128 hugs rhythmbox
[15:32] <kenvandine[work]> ha... we all have opinions
[15:32] <seb128> I hate banshee
[15:32] <kenvandine[work]> i hate rb :)
[15:32] <jcastro> I can see where this conversation is headed ...
[15:32] <seb128> for whatever reason it's started when doube clicking on a ogv on my new desktop
[15:32] <kenvandine[work]> jcastro: you gotta chime in
[15:32] <seb128> I opened it by mistake twice this week
[15:33] <seb128> then closed it immediatly
[15:33] <seb128> to notice later that it didn't close
[15:33] <kenvandine[work]> seb128: yeah... we should change that
[15:33] <kenvandine[work]> it is registered to handle videos
[15:33] <seb128> the stupid thing understand close as go to notification area
[15:33] <kenvandine[work]> but if we ship totem, we don't want that
[15:33] <kenvandine[work]> in foresight i have a patch to make it not register as the default for videos
[15:33] <seb128> well, we can tweak the defaults.list to make totem default
[15:33] <kenvandine[work]> i already have a patch :)
[15:34] <kenvandine[work]> i will open a bug and attach a debdiff :)
[15:34] <seb128> the defaults.list is in desktop-file-utils
[15:34] <seb128> ok thanks
[15:34] <kenvandine[work]> isn't defaults.list modified when apps are installed?
[15:34] <seb128> no
[15:34] <kenvandine[work]> depending on mime data... in the .desktop
[15:34] <seb128> the cache is updated when app are installed
[15:34] <kenvandine[work]> right
[15:34] <kenvandine[work]> ok
[15:35] <vuntz> seb128: btw
[15:35] <kenvandine[work]> so my patch will work
[15:35] <kenvandine[work]> hey vuntz!
[15:35] <seb128> the defaults.list is a way to say "if several alternative are listed prefer this one"
[15:35] <vuntz> seb128: did you see the thread sbrabec started about generating defaults.list?
[15:35] <seb128> vuntz: hey
[15:35] <seb128> vuntz: no
[15:35] <vuntz> kenvandine[work]: hello there
[15:35] <seb128> vuntz: makes me think I need to try this gnome-panel patch to see if it fixes my xrandr intel issue ;-)
[15:35] <vuntz> seb128: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2009-February/010208.html
[15:35] <seb128> vuntz: I knew that was your fault ;-)
[15:36] <seb128> vuntz: I'm subscribed to the list but I tend to not read everything, reading the mail now
[15:36] <pitti> seb128: you mean killal gnome-panel after you increase screen resolution, to make the panel follow suit?
[15:37] <seb128> pitti: right
[15:37] <pitti> \o/
[15:37] <seb128> pitti: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-panel?view=revision&revision=11530
[15:37] <vuntz> seb128: actually, the latest panel patch shouldn't be needed
[15:37] <vuntz> seb128: was a gtk+ bug
[15:37] <vuntz> seb128: I'll revert this in 2.27
[15:38] <seb128> vuntz: right I read the comment but it's faster to build gnome-panel than gtk ;-)
[15:38] <vuntz> (don't want to revert just before 2.26)
[15:38]  * seb128 hates the debian gtk build
[15:38] <seb128> it's building
[15:38] <seb128> and then building static
[15:38] <seb128> and then building directfb
[15:38] <seb128> ...
[15:39] <didrocks> building this package seems so fun... (hi vuntz) :)
[15:51] <davmor2> Guys will notifyOSD get plugged into totem at all?
[15:52] <kenvandine[work]> davmor2: does totem send any notications now?
[15:53] <davmor2> kenvandine[work]: I don't think so which is odd in itself considering most media apps do
[15:54] <dobey> totem isn't quite the same as banshee/rbox
[15:54] <seb128> totem is a video player
[15:54] <seb128> you don't play videos in the notification area usually
[15:54] <dobey> it's not a media library manager crackbox
[15:54] <seb128> you want those on screen not in a bubble
[15:54] <pitti> please, no more notifiactions just because they are bling :)
[15:55] <davmor2> seb128: No I was thinking more of the fact that it now has the jamendo plugin
[15:55] <seb128> which is weird
[15:55] <seb128> totem is a video player
[15:55] <seb128> people should use rhythmbox to play audio
[15:55] <davmor2> plus any media you download tends to be opening in totem and not rhythmbox
[15:56] <seb128> well, when you download and open something that's usually to get to it now
[15:56] <seb128> bubbles are nice for things which go on in the background
[15:56] <hyperair> actually in the case of banshee, it registers itself as the default =\
[15:56] <hyperair> and yeah i agree regarding that.
[15:56] <hyperair> things which go in the background.. generally totem doesn't go in the background
[15:56] <seb128> that was discussed 15 minutes ago and is a banshee bug
[15:57] <hyperair> ah whoops
[15:57] <davmor2> seb128: I entitled to agree but it seemed to be the main multimedia app so I was just enquiring :)
[15:57] <hyperair> i should scroll up next time =\
[15:57] <seb128> you joined just after the discussion ;-)
[15:57] <hyperair> someone just filed it
[15:57] <hyperair> heheh
[15:57] <seb128> so not your fault
[15:57] <hyperair> oh
[15:57] <hyperair> i see
[15:57] <hyperair> heheh
[15:57] <hyperair> =p
[15:57] <hyperair> well anyway
[15:57] <hyperair> regarding the banshee issue...
[15:58] <hyperair> it looks like maintaining an ubuntu-only patch will be needed, unless we can persuade upstream to change this behaviour
[15:58] <seb128> no
[15:58] <hyperair> no?
[15:59] <seb128> we just need to change the defaults.list to list totem for all video types
[15:59] <hyperair> how does an app register as default anyway
[15:59] <seb128> it already lists most of those
[15:59] <hyperair> defaults.list?
[15:59] <seb128> but not ogv for example
[15:59] <hyperair> where's that
[15:59] <seb128> /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[15:59] <hyperair> aah
[15:59] <hyperair> i see
[15:59] <davidbarth> if the app is not listed in the list in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD then chances are it is not using notifications
[15:59] <hyperair> cool
[16:00] <hyperair> davidbarth: more like it's not using notifications that have actions
[16:00] <seb128> davidbarth: those guys are speaking about adding notifications to other applications because those are so cool nowadays ;-)
[16:00] <davidbarth> we're updating apps that already have support for libnotify
[16:00] <davmor2> davidbarth: I saw it wasn't listed I was wondering if it would be as it wasn't listed :)
[16:00] <davidbarth> hyperair: correct!
[16:00] <davidbarth> sorry, yes not using actions
[16:00] <hyperair> davidbarth: =)
[16:00] <hyperair> davidbarth: by the way, we were talking about the issue about evolution-indicator (and everything else that uses the indicator-applet)
[16:00] <seb128> brb
[16:00] <davidbarth> which means, that if they do have support for libnotify, they can enjoy the shinny new visual
[16:01] <davidbarth> but if they don't, well, back to the beginning, they're not listed, and so won't be updated for the moment
[16:01] <hyperair> davidbarth: i just got a new email, and with that i got a black bubble saying "1 new email" and a blinking icon.
[16:01] <davidbarth> however, we encourage people to add support to libnotify in their favorite app
[16:02] <davidbarth> take a look at the development guidelines recently posted by mirco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines
[16:02] <hyperair> i think the usb startup disk thing could use the libnotify popup thing
[16:02] <davidbarth> hyperair: you mean you've got the message indicator running now?
[16:02] <hyperair> davidbarth: that's right.
[16:02] <hyperair> davidbarth: and it has the text "No Indicators"
[16:03] <hyperair> davidbarth: is it supposed to register in dbus or anything? d-feet doesn't reveal anythingg
[16:03] <davidbarth> hyperair: err... then it means that no application is loaded that provides "indicators"
[16:03] <hyperair> davidbarth: but i have evolution-indicator loaded
[16:03] <davidbarth> hyperair: do you have evolution or pidgin running? with the plugins that is
[16:03] <hyperair> davidbarth: as well as pidgin-libnotify which is patched to support indicators
[16:03] <hyperair> davidbarth: yeah i have both, and they both don't register
[16:03] <hyperair> to be fair, i'm on intrepid
[16:04] <davidbarth> hyperair: the app registers at runtime, ie no app loaded, no indicator
[16:04] <hyperair> i backported some pacakges to my ppa
[16:04] <davidbarth> hyperair: evol and/or pidgin loaded: the message indicator is declared and multiple apps contribute content to the menu
[16:04] <davidbarth> hyperair: should work as is, we were developing on intrepid too
[16:04] <hyperair> davidbarth: okay, here's what happened. i added indicator applet, then i started evolution, and then i started pidgin. nothing.
[16:05] <hyperair> davidbarth: i backported notify-osd, indicator-applet, pidgin-libnotify, gobject-introspect, and evolution-indicator from jaunty to my ppa
[16:05] <hyperair> am i missing something?
[16:05] <davidbarth> k
[16:05] <davidbarth> you need indicator-message too
[16:06] <hyperair> indicator-message?
[16:06] <hyperair> hmm
[16:06] <davidbarth> indicator-messages - GNOME panel indicator applet for messages
[16:06] <hyperair> wait a sec, this is a panel applet as well?
[16:06] <hyperair> how's that differ from indicator-applet
[16:06] <davidbarth> yes, that's a lot of little modules, but it's part of a (overly inflated) grand scheme to make indicators better
[16:07] <davidbarth> indicator-applet is a sort of shell for indicators
[16:07] <hyperair> a shell eh
[16:07] <davidbarth> in the future, we'd like to have more indicators using the new scheme
[16:07] <davidbarth> and message indicator is the first
[16:08] <davidbarth> if you add indicator-messages, it will remove the "no indicators" message, and you will see... nothing!
[16:09] <davidbarth> but when evolution and pidgin register to it (with the new plugins)
[16:09] <davidbarth> then you will see an envelope icon (with two states whether there are new messages or not)
[16:09] <davidbarth> hyperair: you're almost there, just need to rebuild a last package... ;)
[16:20] <hyperair> davidbarth: alright thanks =)
[16:22] <seb128> re
[16:22] <seb128> vuntz: the gnome-panel change fixes the xrandr case
[16:33] <seb128> grrrr, xulrunner broke on closing again which breaks all authentifications, brb
[16:40] <seb128_> re
[16:40] <seb128_> ok, back to working desktop now
[16:45] <seb128> didrocks, Laney: could you review bug #327747 too?
[16:46] <Laney> seb128: There is a bad dependency in the control file
[16:46] <Laney> nautils-sendto (= ${Source:Version}) or similar
[16:47] <seb128> Laney: why do you consider that incorrect?
[16:47] <Laney> because it means they always have to be the exact same revision
[16:47] <Laney> -sendto and -sendto-universe
[16:48] <seb128> well, they should be the same source, I'm not sure how much you can fix versions
[16:48] <seb128> rather "how much you can mix versions"
[16:48] <Laney> it should express that they should be the same upstream version in some way
[16:48] <seb128> not sure if upstream version is enough
[16:49] <seb128> anyway that should not be a blocker for upload
[16:49] <seb128> that can be fixed easily or later
[16:49] <seb128> would be nice to get things moving
[16:49] <seb128> we have libpst evolution-mapi and nautilus-sendto-universe which are stucked for a while on review
[16:50] <Laney> are you sure? I can see it really being a problem
[16:51] <seb128> I'm sure it's easy to fix yet
[16:51] <seb128> just delete the (= ${Source:Version}) before uploading
[16:51] <seb128> yet -> yes
[16:51] <Laney> right, well if that's acceptable then fine
[16:51] <seb128> I don't have a strong opinion either way
[16:52] <seb128> I would just like to get things not stucked for week on such details ;-)
[16:52] <Laney> I do have a strong opinion that it's wrong and will easily and frequently cause uninstallability
[16:52] <seb128> right it's a bit too strict
[16:53] <Laney> but the rest of the packaging is fine IMO
[16:53] <seb128> good
[16:53] <seb128> can we get an upload? ;-)
[16:53] <Laney> possibly later tonight
[16:53] <Laney> I'm still at work
[16:53] <seb128> (yeah I could do that myself but I'm trying to encourage new motus to take over such tasks ;-)
[16:54] <seb128> ok thanks
[16:55] <Laney> actually, does it even need to depend on nautilus-sendto?
[16:55] <seb128> yes
[16:56] <Laney> k
[16:56] <seb128> no point to have those if you don't have the nautilus-sendto binary installed
[16:56] <seb128> ie no user interface to use
[16:56] <Laney> I didn't know it was a binary, thought they were just plugins to nautilus
[16:56] <seb128> no, it adds a "send files" menu entry
[16:56] <seb128> which opens nautilus-sendto
[16:57] <seb128> which has a combo listing choices
[16:57] <Laney> got it
[16:57] <seb128> would be too many menu items otherwise ;-)
[16:57] <Laney> I see an open sponsorship request for sendto-1.1.2
[16:57] <Laney> would be nice to have this updated too
[16:57] <Laney> but I won't block on that
[16:59] <seb128> Laney: I think somebody (mvo?) commented on that, I expect it to be uploaded after the freeze
[16:59] <seb128> does anybody has an opinion on bug #310353?
[16:59] <seb128> I'm not sure what is right with this dpi settings against font settings
[17:00] <mvo> Laney: waiting for the freeze to end :)
[17:00] <seb128> I've to admit that auto-dpi sucks in many cases, ie in a Xephyr session fonts make the UI not usable
[17:00] <Laney> I resized all of mine to 9
[17:00] <mvo> but I will not be around tomorrow, so anyone is free to take it
[17:00] <Laney> one of the first things I did after upgrading
[17:02] <pitti> seb128: hm, I just looked at that screenshot, and it seems fine to me
[17:03] <pitti> seb128: I guess many people just got used to tiny fonts :)
[17:03] <pitti> seb128: personally I don't think that auto-dpi is wrong, so if at all, then our default font sizes are too big
[17:03] <seb128> pitti: can yo try to sudo apt-get install xserver-xephyr and gdmflexiserver --xnest?
[17:03] <pitti> I tried that with xnest, looks fine
[17:03]  * pitti purges xnest and installs xephyr
[17:04] <seb128> pitti: you have xnest or xephyr?
[17:04] <seb128> you can keep xnest, xephyr is prefered over it
[17:04] <pitti> as I said, xnest; trying xephyr now
[17:05] <seb128> I've to admit I find the default value a tide too high on d630
[17:05] <pitti> a "tide"?
[17:05] <seb128> it detects 120 dpi and 96 looks much nicer
[17:05] <seb128> but changing 10 points to 9 is ok too
[17:05] <pitti> ah, I think I know
[17:05] <pitti> I guess the effect is that higher dpi screens are generally smaller
[17:06] <pitti> and people are sitting closer to it
[17:06] <seb128> pitti: "a bit"
[17:06] <pitti> so maybe it's not so much the dpi that counts, but rather the screen width/height
[17:06] <seb128> there was lot of discussions upstream about that
[17:07] <pitti> a 24" 150 dpi monitor at 10 points would just look fine
[17:07] <pitti> and with intrepid would be pretty much unreadable, I guess
[17:08] <pitti> eww, xephyr is using an insane resolution
[17:08] <seb128> you can change that easily
[17:08] <seb128> it supports xrandr
[17:08] <pitti> it's much bigger than my actual screen ;)
[17:08] <seb128> right, I get 1600 there
[17:09] <pitti> I get the big fonts, too
[17:09] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104341#c21
[17:09] <seb128> is interesting
[17:10] <pitti> xephyr reports 135 dpi, which is clearly wrong
[17:10] <pitti> it should have the exact same dpi value than the host x server
[17:10] <pitti> xnest gets that right
[17:11] <pitti> if I correct it to 96, it looks fine
[17:11] <seb128> right
[17:20] <calc> seb128: if we force dpi in gconf it doesn't seem to be picked up by gdm, is that a known issue?
[17:22] <calc> pitti: well you can get 300 dpi large screen monitors (aiui) for large sums of money, but i doubt any of our users have one
[17:23] <seb128> calc: yes, gconf is an user thing gdm is a system thing
[17:23] <seb128> calc: and the current gdm doesn't use gconf too
[17:25] <calc> what the users seem to miss is that most monitors are ~ 96 dpi natively, except for higher end laptops (more expensive), netbooks (due to tiny screens), and HDTV's
[17:25] <calc> and the govt spec monitors i mentioned earlier that are large screen (nearly tv sized) and 300 dpi
[17:25] <calc> seb128: ah ok
[17:27] <calc> to 'fix' this issue for users with much higher native DPI than 96dpi we probably need to just document it in the release notes, for much lower dpi (eg TVs) we may need to bump the default font size up substantially, since the fonts won't have enough pixels to be drawn
[17:28] <calc> since for much higher than normal we don't know if it is laptop (relatively small screen) or one of the expensive high res large screens that would be viewed for more of a distance
[17:28] <seb128> xorg does a if dpi < 50 then dpi = 96 apparently
[17:28] <calc> seb128: cool :)
[17:29] <calc> seb128: that helps a lot, i played with ~ 35 dpi a few years ago on a large tv and it was completely unusable until the dpi was set higher (since at the time it was hard to adjust font sizes for all apps)
[17:30] <calc> my current tv has ~ 36 dpi (61" 1920x1080)
[17:31]  * Tm_T would love to have ~160 dpi display
[17:31] <calc> seb128: is it considered a feature that nautilus desktop truncates mount point names (eg doesn't show storage-2_ instead shows storage-2 )?
[17:32] <Tm_T> as I cannot use small enough fonts with ~100 dpi
[17:32] <calc> seb128: because if you have duplicate mount points the automounter adds a _ to the end but then the desktop seems to truncate that and then you can't tell your mount points apart
[17:33] <seb128> calc: not sure, that would required to look at the gvfs code
[17:33] <calc> even in the nautilus file manager window its truncated except in the window title
[17:33] <seb128> and in gvfs-mount -li?
[17:33] <calc> the reason i noticed it was i am backing up a drive to a new drive which has the same fs label and it showed up
[17:34] <calc>     Mount(0): storage-2 -> file:///media/storage-2_
[17:34] <calc>     Mount(0): storage-2 -> file:///media/storage-2
[17:34] <calc> so calling them both the same thing :\
[17:35] <calc> they are technically the same label on disk, but it was mounted as storage-2_ to avoid duplication, so probably should keep that change throughtout the stack
[17:36] <calc> esp since you can't rename labels anyway not much need to keep it the same as on disk
[17:36] <calc> seb128: would this be a bug to file against gvfs or somewhere else?
[17:37] <seb128> gvfs I guess
[17:37] <seb128> since gvfs-mount lists the same naming
[17:38] <calc> ok
[17:46] <calc> bug 335032
[17:47] <seb128> ok
[17:48] <slomo_> seb128: you want to sync gst-plugins-base0.10 0.10.22-3 from unstable for the alsamixer fix ;)
[17:49] <seb128> slomo_: thanks!
[17:49] <seb128> will do later today after the freeze
[17:49] <slomo_> np :)
[17:57] <didrocks> Laney: you are afraid that if (= ${Source:Version}), most of the time, this package will not be installable?
[17:58] <didrocks> seb128: mvo just put it "in progress", no comment. Well, it will be sponsored after freeze, as you said
[17:59] <didrocks> (ok, sorry if I repeat something already said, 1h of backlog :))
[18:03]  * didrocks don't see nautilus-sendto-universe in REVU
[18:04] <seb128> didrocks: it's not in revu but on launchpad
[18:06] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so no advocate for the moment, once reviewed, we just comment on the bug report to advocate (or not) or ask explicitely to put it in REVU.
[18:07] <seb128> didrocks: no, just do review and upload, don't use revu ;-)
[18:07] <seb128> but Laney seems to be on it already
[18:08] <didrocks> ok, I will have a look at evolution-mapi so
[18:08] <seb128> thanks
[18:08] <crevette> hello
[18:08] <crevette> I'm seeing you're talking about n-sendto-universe
[18:08] <didrocks> seb128: hum, some comments from james_w the 16 Feb and no upload since then
[18:09] <didrocks> crevette: yep
[18:09] <james_w> talk to jelmer if you want to move it along
[18:10] <crevette> didrocks: are you waiting for something from me
[18:10]  * crevette is out of sync for 2 weeks
[18:11] <didrocks> crevette: see the little worry on Laney about (= ${Source:Version})
[18:11] <didrocks> crevette: appart from that, Laney is on it ;)
[18:12] <crevette> Nice,
[18:12] <crevette> I've been ill last week, and my work is sucking all motivation to do something when I'm home :/
[18:13] <didrocks> crevette: apparently, the package is good, just discuss with Laney :)
[18:23] <didrocks> crevette: btw, do you follow the last news from nautilus-sendto?
[18:23] <crevette> the last news ?
[18:24] <crevette> I seen a new upstream release, I started to package but didn't finished
[18:24] <didrocks> crevette: I updated it already
[18:24] <didrocks> crevette: if you looked at NEWS file, it says that
[18:24] <didrocks> "Add new evolution plugin"
[18:24] <crevette> yep
[18:24] <crevette> I tested it
[18:24] <didrocks> I can see the plugin in evolution, enable/disable it
[18:25] <didrocks> but can't see what it is used for :/
[18:25] <crevette> it adds a send to action in mail with attachement
[18:25] <didrocks> Hum?
[18:25] <didrocks> So, the use case is:
[18:25] <didrocks> I open evolution
[18:26] <didrocks> create a new mail and add attachement
[18:26] <didrocks> and I will be able to send the mail? :)
[18:26]  * didrocks is lost
[18:26] <crevette> didrocks: no for mail you receive
[18:27] <didrocks> I receive a mail with attachement and I can do what ? :/
[18:27] <crevette> example: you have a pdf in a mail you should have an action with the same send-to plugins as you find in nautilus
[18:27] <didrocks> let me check
[18:27] <crevette> like send to burn://, removable medias
[18:27] <didrocks> I right-click on the pdf?
[18:28] <crevette> no, there is a banner under the message, and a button with all actions you can do
[18:30]  * didrocks checks now
[18:30] <crevette> I can do a screenshot if you need it ?
[18:30] <didrocks> crevette: let me launch my jaunty vm and see if I can figure it out before bothering you with that :)
[18:40] <didrocks> crevette: got it, thanks :)
[18:40] <crevette> okay, super
[18:40] <didrocks> but evolution sucks in a 800x600 VM :/
[18:40] <crevette> for sure
[18:43] <mvo> didrocks: I will not be around tomorrow, so anyone can take it
[18:44] <didrocks> mvo: no pb. I will ask seb if he will have time :)
[18:45] <didrocks> time for dinner
[18:52] <crevette> mvo
[18:52] <crevette> rhaaa
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> hi tedg, are you about?
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> davidbarth - i just saw your response to bug 283095. are you suggesting that we remove the existing session options from the FUSA and replace them with "Shut Down" and "Log Out", which call the existing gnome-session dialog?
[19:00] <thewrath> hey is anyone using 9.04 alpha
[19:00] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: hi
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> hi:)
[19:01] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: fusa is now the only exit path now
[19:01] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: so yes it needs to call a confirmation dialog and i'm looking for the best option
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> i think calling the existing session dialog from the FUSA is quite good. i actually ran a patch locally on my intrepid machine which did exactly that, although it was a bit of a hack
[19:02] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: i'm not talking directly about simplifying the entries in the menu, though i would love to do so if it removes bugs
[19:02] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: eh, i'm interested in the patch!
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> i'll dig it out later and try and improve it
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> i did some changes to the FUSA recently, so if you want more changes and everybody is really busy, i might be able to help out a little
[19:04] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: that would be great!
[19:04] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: can you first send your existing patch
[19:04] <chrisccoulson> i'll do that - i'll have to find it first as i'm not running that version anymore
[19:04] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: and then you should get in touch with ted to see how to share the work
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> no problem
[19:05]  * kenvandine_ seems to have crashed his box by selecting the guest session
[19:05] <davidbarth> chrisccoulson: thanks
[19:05] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: eh...
[19:06] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: can i also take some of your time to try to debug a gnome-session pb?
[19:06] <kenvandine_> not cool...  no consoles
[19:06] <kenvandine_> davidbarth: yes
[19:06] <kenvandine_> no ssh... but network is up
[19:06] <kenvandine_> damn
[19:06] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: i haven't seen bugs about that, but it seems to happen on my mac mini but not my notebook
[19:06] <kenvandine_> davidbarth: got a bug  you want to assign to me?
[19:07] <kenvandine_> interesting
[19:07] <kenvandine_> intel graphics on the mac mini?
[19:07] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: a xterm failsafe session works (then i had metacity, etc.), but starting gnome-session locks the machine (the mouse moves, but the cursor spinner freezes)
[19:07] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: ideas?
[19:08] <davidbarth> intel graphics, gma950 or something
[19:08] <davidbarth> (not yet the new mac mini with the nvidia card ;)
[19:08] <kenvandine_> that is the same as i have in this box
[19:08] <kenvandine_> i would think an xorg bug
[19:08] <kenvandine_> probably related to trying to see if composting is supported
[19:09]  * kenvandine_ still doesn't know how we check for that
[19:09] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: yeah, but what's strange is that i can run metacity + compositing from the xterm failsafe session (adding things piece by piece)
[19:09] <kenvandine_> can you run compiz though?
[19:10] <kenvandine_> i wonder if we think compiz will work, and try it
[19:10] <kenvandine_> although compiz does actually work on mine
[19:10] <kenvandine_> just not very fast
[19:10] <kenvandine_> i have seen some weird behavior... hangs, etc
[19:10] <davidbarth> trying again
[19:11] <didrocks> crevette: does nautilus-sendto-universe have the same source than nautilus-sendto?
[19:14] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: ok, you were right, this is compiz that crashes/locks
[19:15] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: i thought my preferences were already set to metacity, but starting compiz reproduces the same black screen, locked cursor behaviour
[19:15] <kenvandine_> i really need to figure out what we do to check to see if compiz should work, and enable it automatically
[19:16] <crevette> didrocks: ouaip
[19:16] <crevette> this is the same tarball
[19:17] <didrocks> crevette: how do you choose plugins that goes on universe, libdep are in universe?
[19:17] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: my appearance settings are set to 'no effects': do you know which gconf/etc setting to look for?
[19:18] <kenvandine_> it isn't gconf
[19:18] <kenvandine_> all though... no effects should disable that...
[19:18] <kenvandine_> i would think
[19:18] <kenvandine_> look at startup applications
[19:18] <kenvandine_> is compiz enabled?
[19:18] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: except if gconfd is not yet running
[19:19] <didrocks> crevette: I don't see how you choose plugins you want exclude/include
[19:20] <didrocks> just remove b-d and let configure choosing the right things to build?
[19:26] <kenvandine_> davidbarth: gconfd should start on demand
[19:26] <kenvandine_> so if something queries it, it starts
[19:28] <crevette> didrocks: that's simple  look in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebmillemathias/%2Bjunk/nautilus-sendto-universe/annotate/head%3A/debian//nautilus-sendto-universe.install
[19:28] <crevette> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebmillemathias/%2Bjunk/nautilus-sendto-universe/files/head%3A/debian/ rather
[19:28] <crevette> in rules I added DEB_DESTDIR := $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
[19:29] <crevette> and I created a nautilus-sendto-universe.install which only copy so of the plugins I need
[19:29] <didrocks> oh, you specify only what you want to install in .install. Ok
[19:29] <didrocks> ok
[19:29] <didrocks> seems the right way :)
[19:30] <didrocks> be careful with DEB_DH_SHLIBDEPS_ARGS_ALL
[19:30] <didrocks> let me check one thing
[19:30] <didrocks> ok, you don't b-d on it
[19:30] <crevette> b-d ?
[19:30] <didrocks> build-depends :)
[19:31] <didrocks> for the evolution plugin, it does not install usr/lib/nautilus-sendto
[19:32] <didrocks> but in usr/lib/evolution
[19:32] <tedg> chrisccoulson: Not really.  My son is sick, and he's napping right now.  If you have a quick question I can probably answer it.
[19:32] <didrocks> so, add a depends (and not suggests) on evolution, which is not what we want :)
[19:32] <didrocks> crevette: you can remove Conflicts: evolution (<< 2.4)
[19:33] <crevette> didrocks: yeah I guess
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> it was about bug 283095, but it can wait :)
[19:34] <tedg> chrisccoulson: Okay.  I was going to work on that one.  I think we're going to have to give up on gnome-session really working :)
[19:35] <chrisccoulson> no problem. i wasn't sure whether the intention was that the FUSA should call the session dialog. if it was, then i could probably work on tha
[19:35] <chrisccoulson> *t
[19:36] <crevette> didrocks: this is the code of the 4 weeks old nautilus-endto-universe, so evolution pluging didn't exist and evo plugin is for nautilus-sendto package
[19:37] <didrocks> crevette: yes, I was just explaining this to you :)
[19:38] <didrocks> crevette: btw, for your previous gedit-plugins update, think to bump depends regarding configure.* file :)
[19:38] <tedg> chrisccoulson: I don't think so.  I think we're going to have to make our own dialogs.  The problem is the session manager has you make a choice of what you want to do, which you've already done with the menu.  I was thinking more a "Logging out in 5 seconds, hit cancel to stop" type of thing.
[19:38] <didrocks> (you forgot to bump the dependency to 2.25.2 for gedit)
[19:39] <crevette> didrocks: did it depend on this version ?
[19:39] <didrocks> crevette: yep, cf configure.ac
[19:39] <crevette> I obviously forgot to check configure.?
[19:39] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i wasn't sure whether you could replace the multiple options in the FUSA with just "Shutdown" and "Logout", similar to what was in the System menu
[19:39] <didrocks> apparently ^^
[19:39] <didrocks> no matter, I update it now :)
[19:50] <davidbarth> kenvandine_: works; i changed desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default
[19:53] <RainCT> Hey
[19:56] <RainCT> Just wondering, has anyone thought about adding GMail as a "Mail Reader" option in "Preferred Applications"?
[20:57] <wgrant> Is it intentional that I now get a notification dialog whenever a new email appears in my inbox?
[20:58] <kenvandine[work]> wgrant: not really, we have a fix coming for that
[20:58] <kenvandine[work]> wgrant: evolution right?
[20:59] <kenvandine[work]> in evolution, go to Edit->Plugins the select the Mail Notification plugin
[20:59] <kenvandine[work]> then the Configuration tab
[21:00] <kenvandine[work]> and uncheck "Show icon in notification area"
[21:01] <wgrant> kenvandine[work]: OK, thanks. It's not another instance of the new pop-unders-are-better policy?
[21:01] <kenvandine[work]> it is :)
[21:02] <wgrant> Huh?
[21:02] <kenvandine[work]> we favor the message indicator applet for mail notification now
[21:02] <wgrant> That notification is, without a doubt, the most annoying thing in Jaunty.
[21:02] <kenvandine[work]> as opposed to the build in mail notification plugin
[21:03] <wgrant> But this window pops up every few minutes in the background, and has to be dismissed manually!
[21:03] <kenvandine[work]> s/build/built
[21:03] <kenvandine[work]> that is what we want to avoid
[21:03] <kenvandine[work]> we have a fix for it, but it needs to get committed
[21:03] <wgrant> Ah, so it's not part of the pop-under policy.
[21:03] <kenvandine[work]> no
[21:03] <wgrant> I thought you just said that it was...
[21:04] <kenvandine[work]> i guess i missunderstood :)
[21:04] <wgrant> Ah, good.
[22:34] <Laney> grr, I wish there would be some movement on gnome bug 524977
[22:37] <seb128> Laney: could be gnome bug #570977 which has been fixed today
[22:37] <seb128> Laney: you can test the svn patch if you want
[22:38] <Laney> I can and will!
[22:38] <seb128> ;-)