[00:07] <andresmujica> at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport   Per-package Apport Hooks  could be the place
[00:12] <greg-g> bdmurray: is that apport-collect BUGNUMBER feature new? I never knew of it. So it just goes to the bug number, sees what package it is assigned to, then runs any apport hooks for that package and attaches the info automatically?
[00:14] <bdmurray> greg-g: it's relatively (February?) new.  pitti e-mail ubuntu-devel(?) about it.  It checks the bug number for open tasks and then does what you said.
[00:14] <greg-g> sweet!
[00:14] <greg-g> we need to blog that
[00:15] <greg-g> did I just volunteer myself?
[00:15] <bdmurray> I think so!
[00:20] <andresmujica> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#preview
[00:21] <andresmujica> err without preview
[00:21] <andresmujica> something like that would do it right bdmurray?
[00:21] <Skiess1> my laptop video driver defaults to vesa
[00:21] <andresmujica> also we would need to link that from DebuggingProcedures i believe...
[00:21] <Skiess1> though it says it's S3 Savage4
[00:21] <andresmujica> is kind of hidden
[00:23] <andresmujica> i'm going out of office, let me know if it's ok, and i'll finish it later with the intrepid ones..
[00:23] <andresmujica> see ya later
[00:27] <bdmurray> andresmujica: Looks great I threw in the new Jaunty ones
[00:29] <Skiess1> so where should I ask for help?
[00:39] <greg-g> Skiess1: #ubuntu is the general support channel, or you can ask in #ubuntu-x since it is video related.
[00:39] <greg-g> if it is a bug, feel free to report it on launchpad.net
[00:40] <andresmujica> great!
[00:59] <greg-g> bdmurray: blogged http://ur1.ca/225j
[01:27] <hggdh> yeee that was fast, greg-g :-)
[01:34] <andresmujica> which is the package needed to install apport-collect ?
[01:37] <james_w> andresmujica: apport on jaunty
[01:41] <andresmujica> yapp just found that.. downloading pitti script me
[01:41] <andresmujica> anwhile
[01:41] <andresmujica> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/apport-collect
[01:47] <andresmujica> hmm we would need some instructions or a backport so the users can get the script..
[01:53] <greg-g> hggdh: I was in class, too ;)
[01:54] <greg-g> andresmujica: yeah, I should have mentioned that it was in jaunty only right now
[01:58] <andresmujica> hmm we should add some kind of hint at the responses wiki...
[01:59] <andresmujica> and bug pitti to make it for intrepid and hardy
[01:59] <andresmujica> :)
[02:00] <greg-g> that would require a SRU, which, if I remember correctly, aren't for new features, only for bug fixes
[02:00] <greg-g> (and important bug fixes at that)
[02:02] <greg-g> "luckily" there aren't enough apport hooks to make this an extremely utilized tool, so we aren't missing /much/ from Hardy.
[02:05] <andresmujica> but the xorg, linux and nm would be enough!!.. at least for intrepid
[02:06] <greg-g> yeah, I know :(
[02:16] <greg-g> andresmujica: it requires python-launchpadlib, which isn't installed by default in Intrepid (as a dependency of apport). so it would require users to install that as well
[02:17] <andresmujica> that's the one that links the app with launchpad, right?
[02:17] <andresmujica> it seems pretty cool!!
[02:17] <greg-g> so, most likely this will not be updated for hardy/intredpid, unless it is via a PPA, which is also difficult for users
[02:18] <greg-g> andresmujica: yeah, it is, I just tested it: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76395
[02:19] <andresmujica> doing the same.. but bug #1 didn't wanted hooks :(
[02:20] <greg-g> andresmujica: that is a tough one to test on! :)
[06:44] <ewk> I believe Bug 328486 should be set to Wishlist
[06:48] <harrisony> your wish is my command
[09:34] <keith_> Should I do anything if a bug was marked as a duplicate and closed with no reference made to which bug it is a duplicate of?
[09:35] <harrisony> what bug number
[09:35] <keith_> Well, it is marked officially as a duplicate... I didn't see that. But no reference is made in the reply.
[09:36] <keith_> It is 337072
[09:36] <harrisony> bug 337072
[09:36] <keith_> what?
[09:36] <keith_> That doesn't even seem like the same thing
[09:37] <keith_> In fact, I am pretty sure they are completely unrelated
[09:42] <seb128> keith_: you can try to find the duplicate reference
[09:44] <keith_> seb128: Well, I found what it was marked as a duplicate of (though I wouldn't expect an average user to know where to look), but it seems to me that it isn't really a dupe
[09:45] <keith_> I am not sure what to do about it
[09:45] <seb128> the bug mail you get is pretty clear about the duplicate
[09:45] <keith_> seb128: The reply just says "Thank you for your bug report. This bug has already been reported, but please feel free to report any other bugs you find."
[09:45] <seb128> the bug is a duplicate, search for a butter number if you want
[09:46] <seb128> keith_: right, but it has been marked as duplicate and the email sent by launchpad has some lines stating clearly that it has been marked duplicate of the other bug and giving the url and bug title
[09:47] <keith_> seb128: ok, well... that aside, I disagree with the fact that it is a duplicate
[09:47] <seb128> that's a duplicate
[09:47] <seb128> maybe not of this bug
[09:47] <seb128> but looking for exact numbers is quite some work and sometime triager do that a bit quickly
[09:47] <seb128> you can try to find a better number if you want
[09:48] <keith_> That is my point. I haven't found a duplicate.
[09:48] <keith_> Unless you can convince me that it is a duplicate, then I believe it should be unmarked as such.
[09:49] <seb128> grrrr
[09:49] <seb128> ok, let me waste some minutes of my day to find the exact number
[09:49] <seb128> I can understand your point of view
[09:49] <keith_> Who is to say that the triager did not make a mistake?
[09:49] <seb128> but it's annoying to get hundred of duplicates every week and spend hours looking for number
[09:50] <seb128> I tend to just close those and not mark it duplicate often
[09:50] <seb128> me
[09:50] <seb128> I'm reading all the desktop bugs since warty and I can tell you that's a duplicate
[09:50] <seb128> anyway let me look for a number
[09:50] <keith_> Maybe I misunderstand the problem, but I have been unable to duplicate it
[09:51] <keith_> I have tried to duplicate the problem on Intrepid and Jaunty with no success
[09:51] <seb128> keith_: bug #62529
[09:52] <seb128> that's your number
[09:53] <keith_> Hmmm... I CAN confirm that behavior, but it is still different than the bug in question
[09:53] <keith_> In the bug I am looking at, he states that he is unable to delete the copy of the Desktop from the menu
[09:54] <keith_> er... that was poorly phased
[09:54] <keith_> phrased*
[09:54] <keith_> He says he copied the Desktop folder from the menu into a folder and then could not delete it
[09:54] <seb128> that's a poorly described bug
[09:55] <seb128> he describes several issues in a non clear way
[09:55] <seb128> that deserve to be closed
[09:55] <keith_> seb128: Shouldn't we request more information?
[09:55] <seb128> you can
[09:55] <seb128> we get enough poor quality bugs
[09:55] <seb128> one of the issues he describes is bug #
[09:55] <seb128> 62529
[09:56] <seb128> not sure about the other thing you mention
[09:56] <keith_> bug 62529
[09:56] <keith_> What part of his problem is related to that?
[09:57] <seb128> did you read the bug?
[09:57] <keith_> Yes
[09:58] <seb128> to me the issue is that the user would expect the dnd to create a launcher to this directory and not to do a copy
[09:58] <keith_> Sure
[09:58] <seb128> everything else then is sideeffect of the fact that the dnd does copy or move
[09:58] <seb128> which is the other bug I pointed two times now
[09:59] <seb128> the real issue there is that dnd doesn't do what expected
[09:59] <seb128> everything else is user story on how confused he has been
[09:59] <seb128> which is fine but not a bug
[09:59] <seb128> you don't agree with that?
[10:02] <keith_> I guess it depends on the root cause... is it the fault of the dnd for copying/moving incorrectly? or is it the fault of nautilus for not being able to delete the Desktop directory that was created?
[10:03] <keith_> If it was the former, then I agree with you
[10:05] <keith_> Sorry if I am being difficult, but I am fairly new to this process and I want to understand
[10:38] <rww> I'm looking at bug 321943. It's been fixed in the upstream bugtracker (to which I added a bug watch) and is fixed in Jaunty. What do I do next?
[11:00] <joumetal> rww: Somehow upstream bugwatch status is not updated in launchpad. You can set (Ubuntu) status to fix released.
[11:04] <joumetal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates has information about sru.
[11:05] <rww> joumetal: thanks :)
[11:07] <elmargol> Looks like the mainline kernel fixes my wireless problems :) (using the same kernel version)
[11:09] <elmargol> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22/+bug/103210
[14:13] <laszlok_work> is there any documentation for the python apport API?
[15:16] <bddebian> Boo
[21:42] <maco> bdmurray: ping?
[21:43] <bdmurray> maco: hi
[21:44] <maco> bdmurray: i was just looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[21:46] <maco> bdmurray: down at the part about incomplete bugs being invalidated, it says 4 weeks. this seems pretty short, yet long enough to be forgotten by the reporter. would it make sense to you to encourage posting a comment reminding the reporter that they were asked for information in case it just slipped their mind / to the 2nd page in their email?
[21:46] <maco> (2nd page of email is practically the bit bucket :P)
[21:47] <bdmurray> maco: something like "We really want to get to the bottom of this bug report but we haven't heard back from you.  Could you please provide this specific bit of information?"
[21:48] <maco> yep
[21:49] <bdmurray> Sounds great to me
[21:50] <maco> should the time for response then be bumped 8 weeks, you think?
[21:51] <maco> i usually prefer to allow 2 months
[21:51] <bdmurray> Maybe 4 then 2?
[21:52] <maco> ok
[22:36] <bcurtiswx> bdmurray: maco: I'm kinda for keeping it as it was or lowering that amount of time by a week.. If after 3 whole weeks the person hasn't bothered to respond to a bug request, it shouldn't be in our hands anymore.  Maybe pester the person after a week of no response?
[22:37] <bcurtiswx> i don't mean to start a war here, just my opinion
[22:38] <bdmurray> bcurtiswx: to what end?  moving bugs from incomplete to invalid is just busy work as far as I'm concerned
[22:39] <bcurtiswx> bdmurray: maybe i read too late into the convo, i was thinking the 4 weeks was how long a bug sits to be marked for expiration
[22:40] <bdmurray> bcurtiswx: that's correct but I don't think there is any reason to really hurry those along
[22:40] <bdmurray> time would be better spent looking at the ones w/ a response or other new ones
[22:41] <maco> bcurtiswx: not a matter of "hasnt bothered to respond" always. sometimes its "i got 200 emails that day and it got lost in the mess"
[22:41] <maco> or "i get 100 emails every day and sorting through them takes a while"
[22:42] <bcurtiswx> bdmurray: yeah, i see both points.  I can't disagree.  Just thought about it for a sec and figured i'd share my opinion
[22:45] <bcurtiswx> maco: thankfully i don't get very many e-mails a day.. otherwise i'd probably go crazy
[22:45] <guest> a bug i may ask a suggestion - do someone tried to replace a video board (nvidia, ati, s3, etc...) on an installed ubuntu, and during the boot appeared that text-mode display saying it was a x-server error? my suggestion for that is, instead, ubuntu calling a generic vesa driver while the driver for the new video board is not installed, and this install will be asked to the user - what do you all think about this?
[23:00] <guest> Another one: what do you all think about gspca webcams becoming trully supported, and being present on the live-cd installer, which takes a photo from you and save it at '~/.face', for the gdm login, and the default gdm theme being that one having .face files in that list?
[23:06] <maco_> guest: gspca are rather lacking on installed systems, let alone the live cd....
[23:09] <guest> i imagine, but i think this feature can be really useful, since it can show you if our webcam is really supported out-of-box, just like the wireless connections - and both seems to be very related to kernel modules, afaik...
[23:59] <bcurtiswx> whats the terminal command to get package version information?