[00:02] general question regarding libraries....the answer will save me time... [00:03] is it possible to have a program and its plugin both use the same instance of a library? [00:03] there is a problem with globals... [00:06] provided it's a dynamic library (.so) it should work fine, IIUC [00:08] phil_ps1: its normal [00:08] phil_ps1: its a problem for a progrm and plugin to use different instances [00:09] I don't understand how to make them the same instances... [00:09] *how to make them use the same instances... [00:09] they will by default [00:10] okay, maybe this is not the problem. I just read it was...have to verify it [00:10] you have to go to some effort [or some special edge cases] to avoid it [00:10] read it on a bug report....https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin-otr/+bug/248684 [00:10] Launchpad bug 248684 in pidgin-otr "pidgin resolver process crashes with ldap accounts" [Undecided,Confirmed] [00:10] packaging is potentiall one such edge case :P [00:11] asked here because people would know about libraries...sorry if its the wrong topic... [00:11] phil_ps1: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin-otr/+bug/248684/comments/7 [00:11] Launchpad bug 248684 in pidgin-otr "pidgin resolver process crashes with ldap accounts" [Undecided,Confirmed] [00:12] phil_ps1: not libraries in general, one specific library, apparently. [00:12] yeah that is what I read...trying to find a fix...without exhaustively removing globals [00:13] okay, I will read more about libgcrypt...thanks lifeless [00:16] phil_ps1: so, its nothing to do with libraries [00:16] graphics on my Lifebook C1020 default to vesa, which I think is wrong... [00:16] phil_ps1: imagine you have two different uses for the gcrypt functions in one program, - two unrelated uses. [00:17] okay === bdefreese2 is now known as bddebian [00:17] phil_ps1: as long as that works, without the programing needing its own globals, it will work fine if the gcrypt stuff is in alibrary; if not it won't [00:17] [IOW, globals are bad, get rid of them] [00:17] yeah, pidgin dies when a whole bunch of threads are spawned... [00:17] so there is a shared state [00:18] yes, I agree, globals are bad [00:18] (what does IOW mean, I am new. :) [00:19] In Other Words [00:19] I should make a program that first finds globals...would help in my parallel computing research... [00:19] thanks StevenK [00:19] oh, wait I have one.... [00:19] by my professor... [00:20] for grading student's assignments [00:20] we enforce no globals, no public data, cyclomatic complexity of function < 10, line count of function < 50 lines [00:23] maybe things in here will fix my problem...http://olympus.het.brown.edu/cgi-bin/dwww?type=file&location=/usr/share/doc/libgcrypt11-doc/html/gcrypt_2.html#SEC9 [00:24] also my ibm desktop ubuntu installation doesn't work... [00:24] I get as far as a login screen and then just a black screen [00:24] is this because no video driver? [00:25] Tonio___: knemo seems to have the same problem, no FFe for a new package [00:25] (and not even a needs-packaging bug for this one) [00:25] why is my jaunty debootstrap pulling in an MTA? [00:25] admittedly, the script is also installing a boatloadd of build-deps [00:25] slangasek: yeah, I discussed this with Riddell... it was in the repos as a KDE3 app but was removed in the KDE4 transition... [00:25] slangasek: shouldn't be considered a new app for him, as well as kblogger [00:25] Riddell: ^^ is knemo ok to re-add to the archive (FFe)? === Tonio___ is now known as Tonio_ [00:26] lamont: which MTA? [00:26] slangasek: I know a bug would have been nice, but I expected him to take care of that sooner, hehe :) [00:26] lamont: oh, you're running a script - SEP :-P [00:27] Tonio_: ok, I can just leave those in the queue for Riddell to review ;) [00:27] sladen: yup, that should concern kblogger and knemo, and skrooge is waiting for your or his approval... [00:28] slangasek: halley:~lamont/make-chroot.sh [00:29] slangasek: yeah I'll get to them tomorrow [00:30] lamont: so maybe the 'ssmtp' listed as a build-dep is the clue? :) [00:30] lamont: also, did you mean to install git-core instead of git? :) [00:31] heh [00:31] dunno [00:31] oh, you're grabbing the build-deps /of/ the packages listed in builddep... hmm [00:31] slangasek: it'll have git-core and a few other things (kernel builddeps) before I'm done with it [00:32] anyway, smartmontools Recommends: mailx | mailutils, mailx Depends: m-t-a [00:32] ah ha [00:32] Riddell: thanks :) [00:32] it was more one of "wtf??" without otherwise looking at it [01:37] Hmm, anyone have any input on bug 336992, is that expected? [01:37] Launchpad bug 336992 in ubiquity "UUID of existing partitions are changed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336992 === asac_ is now known as asac [02:07] pitti: what is the likelihood of getting an update of apport for hardy/intrepid to include the apport-collect feature? as it is a new feature I don't believe it qualifies for a SRU. [02:18] greg-g: that could be pretty awesome [02:19] pitti: after testing it, I see it requires a new dependency (python-launchpadlib) so that probably decreases the chances even more. [02:19] mrooney: yeah, it would be great [02:24] doko: are you in charge of libxalan2-java? :) [02:56] Hey, if I'm commenting on a bug in launchpad, how do I reference a bug properly so that it shows up as a link to that bug? [02:57] Bug #nnnnnn is enough [02:57] thanks [02:57] YW [03:35] where can I go to find the changes in the latest kernel/headers/restricted modules ? [03:48] I know this is a little off-topic, but does anyone know of a package that will list the files that dpkg's database doesn't know about? [03:50] ebroder: apt-file [03:51] TheMuso: will that list files that dpkg doesn't know about? [03:51] No, no - I'm trying to figure out where all of my data is so I know what to backup on this machine. I want to know the files that are currently on my system that dpkg didn't put there [03:51] LaserJock: it will list files from packages that dpkg doesn't yet know about [03:51] ebroder: ah ok [03:52] well you could script something. [03:52] get a list f all files on your system, dump all package file lists of isntalled packages, and compare. [03:52] Yeah, sure [03:52] That was what I was going to do if someone hadn't done it already :) [03:52] I suspect that'll be very unhelpful though [03:53] Anyone know where can I go to find the changes in the latest kernel/headers/restricted modules ? [03:53] maybe not "very", but there's a lot of stuff there that are created postinst, for instance [03:53] LaserJock: good point [03:53] LaserJack: Maybe. I'm willing to see what it comes up with. It might be filterable by-hand [03:53] and you've got things like /var [03:54] Hmm...yeah, but a lot of the files I want this script to track down are in /var. Maybe I can come up with a relatively short blacklist [03:54] anyway, not saying you shouldn't do it, but you're like to get thousands of files and going through by hand might be a bit tedious [03:54] *likely [03:58] leftyfb, look here: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=kernel&searchon=names&suite=stable§ion=all [03:59] foxbuntu: how does that help me? [03:59] that's not ubuntu or the latest kernel [04:00] leftyfb, the Ubuntu kernel comes from upstream Debian [04:00] I didn't think every update came from upstream. There is a kernel dev team at ubuntu [04:00] leftyfb: are you wanting changelog or patches? [04:01] leftyfb, they submit upstream [04:01] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/322879 [04:01] Launchpad bug 322879 in linux "Verizon CDMA card no longer works" [High,Incomplete] [04:01] foxbuntu: not everything comes from Debian [04:01] leftyfb: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty{,-lrm}.git;a=summary [04:01] i'm looking to see if that was fixed in the latest update that was pushed yesterday [04:01] LaserJock, not saying it does [04:01] leftyfb: replace jaunty with the intended Ubuntu release [04:01] it seems to be working, but I'd like to confirm it was fixed and then submit that that bug be closed [04:02] dtchen_: 403 Forbidden - No such project [04:02] leftyfb: that's shorthand for http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty.git;a=summary and http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-jaunty-lrm.git;a=summary [04:04] LaserJack: Apparently `diff -u <(sort -u /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list) <(find / -xdev)` runs pretty damn fast :) [04:06] dtchen_: thanks ... might have found what I was looking for [04:06] do you think " * USB: gadget: cdc-acm deadlock fix" is what fixed the bug i posted previously? [04:09] foxbuntu: The kernel is one place we explicitly do not take from Debian. Generally we are on a newer version than Debian and the kernel team works directly from upstream kernel sources. [04:10] ScottK, ah, well thanks for clearing that up for me [04:10] However the way the kernels are built is loosely derived from Debian. [04:10] True. [04:10] So if your interested in kernel packaging methods, Debian is a good place to look. [06:34] does anyone know how I could run a process after a given amount of idle time? (as root) is that something i could do via upstart? [06:51] haha what's "idle time" defined as? [07:00] jdong_: user idle time I guess? based on mouse/keyboard use. [07:00] I don't think at this time that's an upstart answerable question [07:01] I guess you can have a proxy in each user's X session that reports whether it's idle [07:02] jdong_: :-/ any idea how gnome-screensaver does it? I'm not sure I want to depend on the same mechanism, but if that's the best i've got i'm interested [07:02] tjaalton_: hmm, on fdo #19574 it is said that our patch 156 should be upstream, however the change doesn't appear to be present in our xserver git tree [07:02] i suppose xscreensaver probably uses the same method, whatever it is, [07:02] tjaalton_: this is our bug 311254 btw [07:02] Launchpad bug 311254 in xorg-server "Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in CopyKeyClass()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311254 [07:03] Ademan: yeah I would guess it's a *-screensaver API call on the GNOME side [07:03] Ademan: also look at how gnome-power-manager grabs idle time for DPMS blanking [07:03] because that also works on the KDE side [07:04] thanks jdong i'll poke around [07:04] which leads me to believe there's some DBUS-ish call for it [07:04] or other freedesktop.org tpye call [07:04] hrm, i didn't think kde 3.x used dbus at all... either way... freedesktop may have a spec for that, thanks === tjaalton_ is now known as tjaalton === Trewas666 is now known as Trewas [07:33] Good morning [07:33] Ditto [07:33] http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2009-03/msg00032.html Relevant to anyone who likes playing with the toolchain [07:33] calc: ah, thanks for the heads-up [07:34] and also because I'm crazy and need attention so I can fill an information gap (i.e. why the hell does/doesn't this work and why hasn't it been done this way if it actually works as I think) [07:34] greg-g: apport-collect> indeed; you can get it from http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/apport-collect and ask people to run it; it will point out that you need to install python-launchpadlib [07:34] cprov: can see you are a soyuz contact, i'm sorry for disturbing you this unorthodox way, but we are a little in a hurry, kde4.2.1 is due out today and we've reach the limit in the ppa for release packaging -> https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/62925 [07:36] morning pitti [07:37] yo, Hobbsee [07:37] * Hobbsee stomps on Mithrand1r's feet [07:37] hello, imposter! === Mithrand1r is now known as Mithrandir [07:37] * ion_ returns Mithrandir’s i, thanks for the loan. [07:38] 08:37 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- 31 failed logins since last login. [07:38] hmm [07:38] 31 imposters? [07:38] or just one who's trying a fair bit. [07:39] unless it was yours :P [07:40] last time I checked, I did not irc off a host in Germany. [07:41] Perhaps you need to check again [07:41] blame pitti. [07:41] .com? [07:41] it must be pitti's fault. [07:44] sheesh! [07:53] pitti: architecture-mismatches.txt looks tasty. I'm happy to sort it out, but should I be demoting or promoting? [07:55] ugh, I'm lost where on cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release is a plain ol 32-bit live CD [07:55] lifeless: It's on releases.u.c [07:55] http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ [07:55] *thats* not confusing at all. No really. [07:58] (thanks btw) [07:58] I could rant more if you like [08:12] if hal loses the plot [08:12] how do I get it to release the .hal-mtab lock and start over [08:46] StevenK: promote; it's recommended by libgpod4 [08:47] StevenK: that is, gpod-common; python-gpod doesn't have main rdepends, so that should be demoted [08:47] pitti: Okay, gpod-common gets a promote, and python-gpod gets demoted. I'll sort it out. [08:47] StevenK: great, thanks [09:01] pitti, StevenK: if somebody of you does some NEW could you give a quick review to nautilus-sendto-universe and evolution-mapi? I did work with the contributors on those so would be nice to have somebody else checking too === simira_ is now known as Simira [09:30] mvo: You might recall I had lost my keybindings in compiz after an upgrade? this was on my desktop and it hit my laptop yesterday (hadn't updated it for a while) [09:41] lool: is the gnome compat option enabled? [09:54] seb128: I can't check on the laptop right now, but it was enabled on my desktop [09:55] lool: I suspect the gnome compat module, I'm not 100% sure what the best way to fix it is, but I have it on my radar [10:00] seb128, mvo_: Was disabled indeed [10:00] mvo_: Ok if you know about it then I'm fine === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_ [10:40] Keybuk: ping [10:40] mok01: hello [10:40] Keybuk: hi [10:40] Keybuk: have you seen I've proposed a branch for merge with m-o-m [10:40] ? [10:41] no [10:41] Keybuk: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk/+merges [10:41] Keybuk: it's a couple of very simple things [10:43] could you e-mail me, and I'll take a look at some point [10:43] Keybuk: sure [10:43] someone else is working on a redesign of MoM's pages (RainCT), you might want to co-ordinate with him [10:43] Keybuk: it's rainct [10:44] Keybuk: will do, ok! Thanks! === directhe` is now known as directhex [11:07] pitti: gnargh [11:07] I have to update all my slides [11:07] DeviceKit is no more [11:07] Keybuk: huh? [11:08] wooa if thats true [11:08] Keybuk: 003 was just released yesterday [11:08] http://hal.freedesktop.org/releases/ [11:08] as in my goodness [11:08] Keybuk: is it DavidKit now? [11:08] did you read the release notes? :) [11:08] Keybuk: no [11:08] what, back to hal? [11:08] ah, read them ;) [11:08] Keybuk: url? [11:08] no [11:09] basically the current DK will become simply the D-Bus API to udev [11:09] and the D-Bus name will be just org.kernel.udev [11:09] you'll still have DeviceKit-power and stuff [11:10] aah [11:10] Keybuk: I didn't see release notes on http://cgit.freedesktop.org/DeviceKit/DeviceKit/tree/ [11:10] are there still plans for device kit sound, as that seems pointless now, at least to me [11:10] TheMuso: pointless how? [11:10] Keybuk: nice if it just gets integrated into udev [11:11] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/devkit-devel/2009-March/000123.html [11:11] Keybuk: well most sound related stuff goes through alsa-lib [11:11] if not all of it [11:12] I didn't know there were plans for a DK-sound [11:12] since HAL doesn't really have any kind of sound API right now [11:12] Keybuk: I thought there were, but I don't know where i heard that [11:27] is there an offline bug reader for lp ? [11:38] email? [11:41] random Q of the day [11:41] pitti: bah [11:41] does anyone have a machine that doesn't have ACPI anymore? [11:41] pitti: that doesn't go back in time [11:42] Keybuk: is that new or old? I have a pentium that I still can't boot a current ubuntu kernel on ... [11:42] lifeless: when was the last time you could boot it? [11:42] Keybuk: couple of releases back, its my firewall :P [11:42] did it work on hardy? [11:43] lifeless: try leonov, iirc it has some caching so you can use it offline [11:43] Keybuk: don't think so, I thik thats where I started complaining to ben :P [11:45] Keybuk: anyhow, if you want before-acpi, that may qualifyt [11:46] I'm asking because we don't have any bugs that I can see that non-ACPI machines aren't working anymore [11:46] and we think they've been broken for a couple of releases now [11:46] and since nobody's complained [11:46] and we hadn't actually noticed they were broken [11:46] lifeless, i have an old clunker which does work even though acpi says "noooooo" [11:46] that maybe we should just note that we don't support them anymore :p [11:46] Keybuk: how can I tell its non-acpi ? [11:46] lifeless, what is the symptoms? [11:47] if you can't boot it it is hard [11:47] apw: my one, is hard-lock on boot [11:47] last thing it says? [11:47] apw: no monitor :P [11:47] I don't understand this "nobody's complained" mentality [11:47] heh [11:47] apw: and I last tried about 9 months back [11:47] doesn't it mean "I haven't seen any complaints"? [11:47] apw: because its such a high hurdle to test [11:47] unless you read all bug reports and all forums posts :-) [11:48] best way to tell if a machine (thats running) is acpi ? [11:48] cjwatson, yeah it means the machine is blowing up and noone has brought it to the attention of [11:48] I suspect it may just be that developers are biased towards newer machines, and so there is a higher chance that people with older machines will report problems in the "wrong place" [11:48] I'm not sure that translates accurately into "nobody complained" [11:48] cjwatson, i think that is very likely [11:48] 2.6.15-23-386, [11:48] we are demand dirven though as we have nothing to test on [11:49] model name : Pentium 75 - 200 [11:49] it took me half a day to get this machien with a floppy to even work [11:49] no, I understand that, I just dislike the "nobody managed to file bug reports, let's bin it" approach [11:49] cjwatson: me too :P [11:49] Keybuk: its running 8.04 [11:50] cjwatson, indeed, but if we lost something and didn't notice and need to maek a kernel change to fix it but cannot as we have none, its very hard to do anything about [11:50] apw: do you know, how I can tell if this is acpi or not ? [11:50] there are acpi_available and apm_available iirc [11:50] which exit 0 if there is some of that [11:51] apw@dm$ acpi_available ; echo $? [11:51] 0 [11:51] apw@dm$ apm_available ; echo $? [11:51] 1 [11:51] apw: neither command exists [11:51] gurgle [11:51] :) [11:52] [ -d /proc/acpi ] [11:52] :p [11:52] cat /proc/apm [11:52] ls -l /proc/acpi [11:52] $ [ -d /proc/acpi ] [11:52] robertc@lifelessgwy:~$ echo $? [11:52] 1 [11:52] so no acpi [11:52] apm ? [11:52] cat /proc/apm [11:52] cat: /proc/apm: No such file or directory [11:52] apw: apm only covers power, not device discovery/enablement [11:53] right, but having apm tells us you don't have acpi [11:53] Keybuk: so, I can't until next weekend, but then I can, get a newer kernel and see if its bootable and report back [11:53] Keybuk: and if it boots answer any other queries while I upgrade from 8.04 [11:53] lifeless, sounds good to me [11:53] apw: not necessarily [11:53] I have a laptop that has both [11:54] double gurble [11:54] * apw climbs back into his nice shiney acpi only world, la la la, can't hear you [11:55] Keybuk: will that help you? [11:56] cjwatson: I'd claim the opposite [11:56] thost people who are trying to run Linux on older machines are more likely to be tech savvy and trying to keep the older machines running, so more likely to complain in the right place [11:56] (or at least complain somewhere audible) [11:56] lifeless: I'd be interested to see the results [11:56] Keybuk: [11:57] bah. [11:57] Keybuk, a resonable conjecture [11:57] ok, will fiddle around to get a newer kernel and a monitor and give it a spin [11:57] if it doesn't work, I may bite the bullet and replace it, and shit it to you. Its about 1/8th of a cubic metre. [11:58] Keybuk: neither of our opinions is supported by data, I suppose :-) [11:58] lifeless: hey, I didn't say I was going to _fix_ it :p [11:58] Keybuk, that reminds me, if you are shipping an empty modprobe.d how are we handling blacklisting [11:58] I'm somewhat concious that the amount of work needed to put code into the kernel to deal with the non-ACPI cases is so large and error-prone that it may simply not be worth it [11:58] I keep reading stuff at the moment about how people are more likely to be recycling old machines in the depths of a recession, rather than buying new ones [11:59] apw: they're probably going in /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/modules.conf [11:59] so we will be cslurping them up basically [11:59] cjwatson: "old" in this case does mean "1999 and before though", no? [11:59] yeah i was amazed to find there was a floppy on a machine that worked any more [11:59] for osmeone to complain about it [11:59] I've learned never to make that kind of generalisation :-) [12:00] I was trying to get Ubuntu to work last night with a monitor that doesn't support DDC [12:00] heh [12:00] I'd say the monitor is at least 15 years old, at a guess [12:00] Keybuk, so are you handling the integration with the kernel or does someone here need to start thinking about it? [12:00] "Writing X Mode lines for dummies" [12:00] cjwatson: I think that's the point though - we don't actually support those monitors either right now, do we? [12:00] cjwatson: Interesting you should say that, some cheap KVM switches out there don't support DDC either. [12:00] I gave up, but I'd rather argue that I shouldn't have to [12:00] because if I weren't an Ubuntu developer, I'd be installing some other operating system on it right now [12:00] apw: I'll handle it ;) [12:01] Keybuk, ok cool. /me scuttles off to his tunnels [12:01] cjwatson: I'd be intrigued to know whether the current version of any other operating system works either [12:01] I'd wager lots of money that neither Vista nor Mac OS X would support that monitor [12:01] I could, for example, reinstall the Windows 2000 that was on there when I got it [12:01] Win 2000 is EOL [12:01] you could install warty on it [12:01] * apw wonders if hardy would work [12:01] so what? (from the point of view of somebody who isn't an OS person) [12:01] works > current [12:02] I guess I don't see "the current version doesn't work -> use an older one" as a problem [12:02] * sistpoty|work wonders wether qemu than does work OOTB with a daily, since iirc it doesn't support ddc either [12:02] we probabally don't recommend it loudly enough [12:02] since that's generally the solution [12:02] the operating system that was already there will get a free pass in a lot of people's minds, whether it's old or not [12:02] "if you have pre-2000 h/w" you might want to start with this version [12:02] Keybuk: security fixes [12:02] some *other* old operating system will not get that same free pass [12:02] lifeless: Win 2000 doesn't have security fixes from MS anymore [12:03] Keybuk: I don't use win2000, so thats irrelevant :) [12:03] cjwatson: and this is the end of the world? [12:03] Keybuk: oh FFS [12:03] "this is a bug, I'm trying to get you to acknowledge that" != "end of the world" [12:03] stop turning everything into the worst possible extreme [12:03] I'm not saying it's not a bug [12:03] I'm saying its a bug I'm inclined to Won't Fix [12:03] or even "we should fix this" != "end of the world" [12:04] * TheMuso has jaunty running on a dual celeron 466 box, and the board was from 1999. Works fine, appart from the broken mga driver for the matrox card in there last I checked. :) [12:04] TheMuso, woh thats old! [12:04] i should introduce it to my thinkpad 570e, they are the same age [12:05] sistpoty|work: qemu support some modeline that X tries by default; this monitor apparently doesn't [12:05] cjwatson: maybe that's where we're disagreeing here [12:05] apw: heh, its an abit BP6. I keep it around because it has ISA slots, which allows me to muck around with some ISA hardware speech synthesizers i have. [12:05] cjwatson, the right thing to do is fedex the thing to bryce ... [12:05] cjwatson: I'm not disagreeing that things don't work (they clearly don't) [12:05] Keybuk: I have consistently been given direction that we are to support the long tail of hardware in Ubuntu [12:05] I'm claiming that the effort to fix those things is probably too large compared to the benefit [12:05] cjwatson: ah, makes sense [12:06] cjwatson: and at some point, the tail has to end [12:06] we can't support all hardware ever created [12:06] maybe we'd like to [12:06] but that's an awful lot of work [12:06] I acknowledge that; I think you perhaps overestimate how frequently people upgrade hardware, though [12:06] I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about here, but just an idea, what if we only rip out support for non-ACPI machines in the desktop kernel. That would allow people who really cared about getting Ubuntu running on their P2 to still do so through the server CD. [12:06] I think we're cutting off a bigger tail than you think [12:06] and you'd get into the strange situation that the exotic hardware you're supporting only exists in your labs, because you purchased all available models of that hardware to test it on ;) [12:07] evand: this is about the work required to reintroduce support dropped due to a bug [12:07] oh, my mistake then [12:07] evand: it's not about the space required to keep support [12:07] i would say peoples first experience with ubuntu is as often as not installed on their 'old' laptop after an upgrade [12:07] it's not necessarily "because of a bug" [12:07] Keybuk: that's a gross exaggeration, and unhelpful in this case [12:07] pre-ACPI hardware is not as rare as all that [12:07] it's not a "oh, look, a one line patch" [12:07] or a "this little patch broke non-ACPI machines" [12:08] "due to a bug"> OK, that was an excessive abbreviation [12:08] it's "the kernel really assumes ACPI for a lot of things now, and there's no equivalent non-ACPI code" [12:08] cjwatson, i wonder if machines booted acpi=off count [12:08] (and there probably wasn't any non-ACPI code before - since the kernel didn't bother with such niceties in those days) [12:08] ie. we never had non-ACPI hotplug [12:09] it cirtainly assumed synchronised userspace [12:09] we did have userspace hotplug though [12:09] and its our removal if that which broke things [12:09] we used to run isapnp and write config files, and then use those [12:09] so the appropriate way to do this would be to post somewhere very public saying "we've discovered that we don't appear to support pre-ACPI machines any more; do you care? if so, please write to us" [12:09] apw: nah, that was just how we _found_ this underlying problem [12:10] that is hotplug in userspace [12:10] and assess the responses objectively [12:10] cjwatson: which was my suggestion [12:10] * TheMuso still has an ISApnp sound card, that actually still works. === azeem_ is now known as azeem [12:10] TheMuso: it should work on an ACPI-machine [12:10] Keybuk: I didn't see that suggestion - where? [12:10] Keybuk: It does. [12:10] you said [12:10] 11:46 that maybe we should just note that we don't support them anymore :p [12:10] which sounded like a release note "hi guys, unsupported, you lose" :-) [12:10] anyway, bed time for me. [12:11]