/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/03/04/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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yao_ziyuani wonder if ubuntu can employ a mixed development model01:17
yao_ziyuanupdate core packages slowly,01:17
yao_ziyuanbut app packages quickly01:17
yao_ziyuanapps such as gimp, pidgin, supertuxkart01:18
yao_ziyuantheir latest versions better be released fast01:18
yao_ziyuanso you can have both stability and cutting-edge01:18
LaserJockyao_ziyuan: I think that happens fairly naturally anyway01:21
LaserJockyao_ziyuan: having 6 month releases allows core packages to go slowly but app packages to go quicker01:21
yao_ziyuanbut apps such as pidgin are still outdated01:22
yao_ziyuanubuntu pidgin is 2.5.201:23
yao_ziyuanlatest pidgin is 2.5.501:23
yao_ziyuanhow can you say apps get updated fast?01:24
Nafallojaunty  development  main  release  1:2.5.4-2ubuntu201:24
Amaranthyao_ziyuan: that doesn't sound too out-dated01:25
AmaranthUnless they rewrote pidgin between 2.5.2 and 2.5.501:25
LaserJockso we are 0.0.1 behind :-)01:25
yao_ziyuani'm interested in finding another repository that offers latest apps01:26
yao_ziyuangetdeb.net is one but not sure if it has a repository01:26
LaserJockand 2.5.5 was released 2 days ago01:26
yao_ziyuanis there a ppa.launchpad.net repository for my purpose?01:26
LaserJockso we're all ove 2 days behind :-)01:26
LaserJock*of01:26
LaserJockyao_ziyuan: you can go to launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas and search for it01:27
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TheMusoc02:36
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LaserJockyou know, I wonder if it'd be possible for the CD autorun thing to compare the Ubuntu version that's on the CD with the one that's currently running03:40
LaserJockI just put in a gutsy CD and it wanted to know if I wanted to upgrade :-)03:41
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ScottKMaybe it just has a poor opinion of the release you're running?04:03
TheMusoheh04:11
TheMusoROCK ON ALESSIO ABOGANI! You have made my day dude! We, (or at least I), have a bootable i386 RT kernel!04:13
TheMusowoops wrong channel04:13
* TheMuso has too much excitement atm. :p04:13
brycepitti: are you really sure the patch for 218671 should go to hardy and intrepid?  The patch isn't taken upstream and looks to me like it'd cause regression for all current users of -elographics?  I can put it in if you're certain it's the right fix, but personally I think it needs more work to not cause regressions.04:14
brycepitti: commented on 218671.04:33
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didrocksmdke: I will have a look today at it06:56
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pittiGood morning07:53
pittiScottK: stracciatella> I'm a package bug contact (or at least I'll watch them), but I'm of course interested in getting subscriptions to bugs which interact with it07:54
StevenKMorning pitti!07:54
pittibryce: no, not at all; apparently I misunderstood it as "came from upstream", and since I can't really judge it, I asked you to have a look07:55
brycepitti: ah ok07:56
brycepitti: yeah it's a confusing bug, but I think going upstream is the next step for it07:56
pittiabsolutely, and we shouldn't backport it too fast; it should at least spend some time in jaunty07:57
pittihey StevenK07:57
mdkedidrocks: many thanks08:04
didrocksmdke: that's very strange, the context of the patch didn't change too much. I was pretty confident. I will have a deeper look this evening :)08:05
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mdkedidrocks: ok.08:08
* slangasek waves to pitti from the far side of Debian bug #21521908:25
ubottuDebian bug 215219 in libpam-cracklib "libpam-cracklib: Does not call cracklib when doing passwd" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/21521908:25
pittislangasek: ugh, that's ages old :) great that it came to a good end eventually08:28
dokoseb128, slomo_ : I didn't follow https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470000 . Is this applied?08:42
ubottubugzilla.redhat.com bug 470000 in gstreamer-plugins-good "gstreamer + pulse leaking threads on sound output (pidgin crash)" [High,Closed: nextrelease]08:42
slomo_doko: gst-plugins-good 0.10.14 should have this fixed08:43
slomo_doko: and 0.10.13-something08:43
seb128doko: yes08:43
dokothanks!08:43
seb128slomo_: should we sync 0.10.14? is that a bug fix version?08:44
slomo_seb128: what's the current version in ubuntu?08:44
slomo_seb128: 0.10.13.2-1, ok... compared to that it's a bugfix release, yes08:46
seb128slomo_: ok, good to sync then? ;-) what about vala 0.1.7?08:47
slomo_good to sync, yes... same goes for gst-plugins-bad0.10 0.10.10-3 (or -2, whatever the latest is)08:47
seb128ok thanks08:48
* seb128 does syncing08:48
slomo_vala 0.1.7 has many bugfixes but also some new features iirc... but for such a new language that's ok i guess ;)08:48
seb128yeah, I don't think it will break lot of things08:50
directhexafaik thefre's only one app in the archive built using vala09:04
directhexso test that for buildability with 0.1.7, if it's fine, i see no pressing reason not to update it09:04
directhexa good vala dev environment is a nice thing to have for jaunty09:04
slytherinasac: hi, do you maintain network-manager-openvpn package?09:24
asacslytherin: ?09:28
slytherinasac: any idea where could I forward this bug 28513809:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 285138 in network-manager-openvpn "Does not import certificate and key settings" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28513809:29
asacslytherin: bugzilla.gnome.org09:30
asacslytherin: have you checked the NM on jaunty?09:31
YokoZarjcastro: I hope you don't mind me applying for sponsorship on the very last day.  I've been out with some particularly nasty food poisoning the past week09:32
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slytherinasac: no I haven't. I will do today.09:49
asacslytherin: yes, please do that. maybe its fixed09:51
slytherinasac: I feel this is more of the plugin issue. Still I will check.09:52
asacslytherin: not sure why you think that plugin hasnt changed in jaunty ;)10:00
asacjust check before forwarding ... thanks10:00
slytherinsure10:00
slytherinby the way, has anyone seen ath_pci causing kernel panic at boot time? I faced this issue on an acer laptop yesterday. searched google but didn't find sufficient information.10:02
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ogracjwatson, "Don't disable /dev/ramzswap* swap devices." in partman ? why is that ?12:05
ograoh, that means it shoudnt swapoff ?12:08
cjwatsonogra: this is a change that's been there for ages12:15
cjwatsonogra: yes, indeed, it inhibits swapoff on those12:15
ograright, i was just wondering, and then did remember the actual change12:15
mnabilguys ,i customizing intrepid alternate cd , i added some packages to the /pool/extras and i did every thing using else using uck , my question is how can i install these package automatically  i mean what is the statement to do this in the preseed file12:17
directhexd-i     pkgsel/install-pattern  string ~n^pkgname$|~n^anotherpkgname$12:18
directhexmnabil, ^^12:18
cjwatsongoodness, why would you use such a complicated syntax12:18
cjwatsond-i pkgsel/include pkgname anotherpkgname12:18
directhexdunno, an old sarge d-i guide i think12:18
directhexit'd help if d-i syntax didn't change between every build12:19
cjwatsondoubt it, I think that was an Ubuntuism12:19
cjwatsonyou can use Kickstart if you want a stable syntax12:19
mnabilk12:21
mnabilthanks12:21
directhexcjwatson, i had to switch target distro twice during the project, so whatever it came from initially, it works in etch12:22
cjwatsondirecthex: pkgsel/install-pattern is definitely not supported in etch; pkgsel/include is12:24
cjwatson(see e.g. http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/branches/d-i/etch/packages/pkgsel/debian/pkgsel.templates?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 and http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/branches/d-i/etch/packages/pkgsel/debian/postinst?op=file&rev=0&sc=0)12:24
directhexi might be looking at an old revision of the seed12:24
directhexwell guessed. i was looking at the dapper version of the file12:25
pitticjwatson: do you know where /etc/usplash.conf is written during install?13:11
* mneptok guesses /etc13:13
pitticjwatson: usplash's postinst attempts that, but that wouldn't normally run when installing with ubiquity?13:13
pittimneptok: right, sorry; I mean "how", "what part of the install", and "which resolution does it use"13:13
mneptokpitti: sorry, i try to be egalitarian and fair when spreading snarky comments. ;)13:15
* mneptok hugs pitti 13:15
* pitti hugs back mneptok13:15
ograpitti, just a gues ... update-initramfs ?13:17
ogra*guess13:18
ogra(i didnt look, just speculating)13:18
pittiogra: good shot; however, /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/usplash doesn't have detection code13:18
pittiit just copies /etc/usplash.conf into the initramfs13:19
ograhmm13:19
pittiideally it would be written in the installer, according to the currently dtected/configured X.org resolution13:19
mneptokpitti: wouldn't a dpkg-reconfigure of usplash call whatever piece you're looking for?13:20
pittiand I *think* that's what happens, but kwwii asked me to confirm13:20
ograeither that or by initramfs on boot13:20
pittimneptok: yes it would13:20
Keybukmy favourite bug of the day13:20
Keybukbug #33676213:20
ograif the .conf doesnt exist yet13:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 336762 in util-linux "ntfs hard links not working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33676213:20
directhexwasn't there some magic non-sucky replacement for usplash being mentioned?13:20
pittidirecthex: KMS and plymouth, but not for jaunty13:20
mneptokpitti: OK, so i would think there would be a way to watch that happen.13:20
pittiKeybuk: lol13:20
mneptokKeybuk: my favorite bug of the day slipped back beneath the underwear waistband before i could find tweezers. :/13:21
directhexpitti, something which can handle widescreen without rescaling badly 3 times would be welcome13:22
* Keybuk hands mneptok the Derbac13:22
pittidirecthex: you mean mode switching; and yes, KMS should provide that eventually13:22
mneptokKeybuk: in better news, from what i could see, he has your eyes.13:22
pittibut it's not quite there yet13:22
cjwatsonpitti: ubiquity explicitly runs dpkg-reconfigure usplash, so the postinst is run13:23
pitticjwatson: ah, that solves it; thanks13:24
cjwatsonand it removes /etc/usplash.conf first to force regeneration13:24
cjwatsona bit like Doctor Who13:24
directhexi need to mangle usplash.conf manually on my laptop or i get corruption on screen when booting13:24
Keybukcjwatson: following up on your rant13:26
KeybukI wonder whether the triage tendancy to post to any bug older than a few weeks asking whether it's still present ...13:27
Keybuk... is what causes people to keep posting to my bugs saying "THIS BUG IS STILL PRESENT IN JAUNTY! OMGZ!"13:27
directhexO NOEZ!13:27
cjwatsonthere seems to be a vast misestimation of available developer effort somewhere13:27
cjwatsonleading to people believing that if a bug hasn't been fixed then this must be because it's no longer relevant13:27
directhexcjwatson, every user assumes every other user is a developer (and they're the only "mooch")?13:28
Mirvshould the "Incomplete Language Support" light bulb be appearing in jaunty too, after installation? which package it's a problem of, as it does not? language-selector still has the strings at /usr/share/language-support/incomplete-language-support-gnome.note but those are not shown/triggered.13:45
MirvI guess it would be ubiquity, and I'd file a bug about it if cjwatson doesn't object. I don't know how things should go with the new notification systems etc.13:49
RainCTBtw, apport shows a notification which says "click the icon". Shouldn't the bubble and the notification icon be replaced directly by window?13:53
AnAntRegarding debian bug #411851 , I tried the pm-utils hook script but it didn't work, does Ubuntu something else other than pm-utils for suspend/resume ?13:53
ubottuDebian bug 411851 in sl-modem-daemon "slmodemd not restarted on resume" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/41185113:53
MacSlowhow do I create a pbuilder environment for jaunty (under jaunty again)?13:55
cjwatsonMirv: ubiquity does have code to do that, so bear that in mind when you file the bug - we'd need to figure out why the existing code isn't working13:55
huatsI am experiencing a weird issue :  when I am building a package in my pbuilder it builds fine, but in soyuz it fails because it cannot find a bdeps (liblocale-gettext-perl). This package is installed on my pbuilder, so why is it not installed in soyuz ?13:55
MacSlowwhat's the exact pbuilder command again?13:55
RainCTMacSlow: with pbuilder-dist or plain pbuilder?13:56
ScottKMacSlow: One of the easiest ways to do it is with pbuilder-dist.13:56
MacSlowpbuilder --distribution jaunty --create13:56
* ScottK notes RainCT must type faster than he does.13:56
primes2hdoko: Hi, I just added a link to the diff in bug 33372713:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 333727 in system-config-printer "[jaunty] Cannot add a printer " [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33372713:56
MacSlowhm... no pbuilder-dist command here13:57
RainCTScottK: Heh. Yeah, I have "learn Dvorak" on my TODO :)13:57
* MacSlow does "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools"13:57
primes2hdoko: This bug prevents me from translating the application correctly because I can't add a printer.13:57
MacSlow*sigh* why did that not survive my upgrade to jaunty?13:57
AnAntRainCT: isn't that the keyboard layout in UK ?13:57
ScottKIf you have pbuilder-dist (it's in ubuntu-dev-tools) it's just pbuilder-dist jaunty create13:58
cjwatsonAnAnt: *blink* no13:58
* MacSlow and packaging *sigh³*13:58
MacSlowhey tedg13:59
AnAntwhere should I ask about suspend/resume & pm-utils  ?13:59
RainCTAnAnt: No. See dvzine.org13:59
tedgGood morning MacSlow13:59
RainCTMacSlow: With pbuilder-dist, you can also create a symlink to it called pbuilder-<distro> and then use  pbuilder-<distro>  directly instead of  pbuilder-dist <distro>14:00
ograMacSlow, hey, remember my "notificatons pup under the panel issue" ? ... delaying the startup of notify-osd by 5 secs solves it (i simply added a wrapper script around notify-osd that gets called by the dbus service file and lets it sleep 5 secs)14:01
ogra*pop14:01
cjwatsonKeybuk: can I poke you to vote on my TB Landscape resolution?14:01
MacSlowogra, there is a temp. fix in place now, but it's not a wrapper-script14:01
ograMacSlow, yeah, wrapper scripts are hacks anyway, just wanted to give you a hint ;)14:02
MacSlowogra, don't worry I know about many issues :)14:03
ograoki :)14:04
dokoprimes2h: please let Till review and upload14:06
primes2hdoko: ok, I asked you because he is not here today.14:07
loolI just did a deboostrap and saw it detect new required base dependencies with the move to python2.614:08
loolI think python2.6 needs promotion to priority important and -minimal to required14:08
loolAnd python2.5 ones should be demoted14:09
loolIs an archive admin around to change that?14:09
* MacSlow remembers why he hates packaging14:10
MacSlowa command like "pbuilder-dist jaunty create" has do be done with sudo, right?14:10
Hobbseeyes14:11
MacSlow*sigh*14:11
MacSlow"nice" that it does not complain if I start it without sudo14:11
MacSlowjust diligently does thing and wasts time14:11
Laneypbuilder-dist calls sudo itself, no?14:12
MacSlowHobbsee, Laney: well it certainly did not create this /var/pbuilder/something/base.tgz14:12
MacSlowHobbsee, Laney: well it certainly did not create this /var/pbuilder/something/base.tgz14:13
MacSlowups14:13
LaneyIt makes them in ~/pbuilder/14:13
Hobbseehrm.  You might be right there, actually14:14
MacSlowLaney, how can I instruct pbuilder to use that  ~/pbuilder instead of /var/pbuilder/something?14:14
Laneypbuilder --basetgz (IIRC)14:14
MacSlowI have that actually14:14
Laneybut why not just use pbuilder-dist to build stuff?14:14
MacSlowLaney, I honestly have no idea what I'm doing right now14:15
MacSlowthe last package I did is months ago14:15
LaneyMacSlow: What are you trying to do? build a package?14:16
MacSlowLaney, well I want to use pbuilder to verify my package before I upload it to the build-server14:17
MacSlowPPA rather14:17
Laneyok, well14:17
Laneypbuilder-dist jaunty build xxx.dsc I believe14:17
directhexooh, xxx14:18
Laney18+ source package14:18
* Laney covers directhex's eyes14:18
MacSlowno I've to use pdebuild I think14:19
MacSlowI don't yet have a .dsc14:19
MacSlowfile14:19
Laneyjust run debuild -S inside the package dir and it will spit one out for you14:20
directhexLaney, hot-babe 0.2.2-3ubuntu1?14:20
MacSlowpdebuild -- --basetgz /home/mirco/pbuilder/jaunty-base.tgz14:20
Laneyguh, if you like14:20
MacSlowpackaging is like using git14:20
RainCTBtw, poweroff / reboot don't work anymore here since I updated my laptop to Jaunty ("halt" works, though)14:21
Laneysimple and intuitive?14:21
maxbI like --use-pdebuild-internal, which builds straight from a directory, doesn't need a source package14:21
MacSlowit only makes sense to people who do it on  a daily basis ... not if you only do it every 6 months14:21
directhexLaney, git is as intuitive as DIY laser eye surgery14:22
directhexand more painful14:22
* RainCT is away for 2 hours14:22
RainCTdirecthex: +1 :)14:22
LaneyHMM14:22
LaneyIDEA! pdebuild-dist14:22
maxbThe scary thing is how git starts to make sense after a while.... and you wonder how warped your brain has become :-)14:22
HobbseeMacSlow: the trick is to keep the scripts around, use sed on them, then upgrade them from there - not recreate from scratch each time ;)14:22
Laneyall it does is figure out your pbuilder-dist basetgz location and pass that to pdebuild, parsing changelog to get the right release14:23
AnAntRainCT: that was a nice comic !14:24
AnAntthanks14:24
cjwatsonlool: done the priority changes, thanks. (BTW, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/priority-mismatches.txt)14:25
loolcjwatson: ah didn't think it would check for that14:25
cjwatsonnow, what on earth is pulling gtk into standard14:26
loolcjwatson: one thing the mismatches report doesn't mention is the db4.214:26
loolI: Found additional base dependencies: libdb4.2 python2.614:26
cjwatsonif the report doesn't mention it, that's a good sign that something weird is going on ...14:27
cjwatsonlool: which architecture, to save me time?14:27
loolcjwatson: armel14:28
loolcjwatson: It's a foreign debootstrap of jaunty BTW14:28
MacSlowhm... what's -I meaning for debuild?14:28
looldebootstrap --arch=armel --keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg --verbose --foreign jaunty .14:28
loolMacSlow: Ignore vcs files when building the .tar.gz for native packages14:28
MacSlowthe manpage to debuild doesn't state this paramter14:28
loolMacSlow: it's a dpkg-buildpackage flag14:28
cjwatsondebuild's manual page says that most of its parameters are passed on to dpkg-buildpackage14:29
MacSlowlool, ah I was thing of -I (nclude) like in gcc14:29
ogradpkg-preconfigure: unable to re-open stdin: ...14:33
ograhmm, i wonder if that needs to worry me14:34
MacSlowdput is stuck14:38
MacSlowcan one savely Ctrl-C a hanging dput?14:39
cjwatsonogra: probably not overly14:39
pittiMacSlow: yes14:39
cjwatsonMacSlow: yes14:39
MacSlowhm... damn ... lp is dog-slow or so14:40
MacSlowno idea what's wrong14:40
MacSlowmust be UIF causing tons of uploads :)14:40
MacSlowis there some local log I can look up to see why it might be hanging?14:41
seb128MacSlow: using edge or normal server?14:42
MacSlowppa.launchpad.net14:42
sistpoty|workMacSlow: can you ftp to ppa.lp.net? if so, you can just upload the 4 files with ftp, (.changes file must be last) and see what's going wrong... dput does actually the same thing14:46
pittiasac: are we actually using the modem prober in jaunty now?14:49
pittiasac: I wonder what to do with bug 29133314:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 291333 in hal-info "Onda MT505UP / MF632 not working" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29133314:50
pittiwith just hal-info, I'm between a rock and a hard place14:50
pittiyou can't fix it for everyone :(14:50
asacpitti: could be that the latest package has a build system bug still14:50
asacpitti: do you have /lib/udev/nm*probe*14:50
asac?14:50
pittiasac: no, I don't14:51
pittiah, that's where it should be?14:51
asachmm. ok thats the problem then14:51
asacpitti: yes14:51
asacpitti: todays upload will certainly have that then14:51
pittiasac: so it's meant to be used in jaunty, awesome14:51
asacyes for sure14:51
pittiasac: how does that work wrt. priorities? n-m uses the modem prober, and if that doesn't find anything, falls back to reading hal fdi?14:52
pittior the other way round?14:52
asacpitti: yes. i played a bit around with changing that to "try hal" first, then udev14:52
asacbut i guess we should at least have the "upstream" order in beta14:52
asacso we see if there are issues14:52
pittiasac: hm, so that way around I'd actually need to remove those hal-info entries14:52
pittiasac: *nod*14:52
asacpitti: i think we will prioritize udev over hal from what i can see now14:53
pittiasac: i. e. if the hal-info is wrong for some people (like in above bug), the nm-prober wouldn't fix it14:53
asacpitti: yeah. thats why we should use udev first14:53
pittiasac: ok; let's see how that works; if we need to swap the priority (in case the udev prober needs overrides for some hardware), please let me know, and I'll remove that fdi entirely14:54
asacpitti: let me check if dan already tagged rc3. i can upload that then14:54
asacseems not. i will prod him to do that now14:55
MacSlowsistpoty|work, I need the .dsc (1st), .tar.gz (2nd) and .changes (4th) ... what's the third file (.diff)?14:55
ScottKYes14:55
sistpoty|workMacSlow: .diff.gz (in case you have it)14:55
pittiasac: ah, just found Dan's reply on the hal ML; he also says that hal is a fallback14:55
sistpoty|workMacSlow: basically all files mentioned in the .changes iirc14:55
MacSlowsistpoty|work, I'm not sure my manual ftp transfer triggered anything15:02
sistpoty|workMacSlow: triggered as in triggered a problem in dput, or as in makes the upload work in ppa?15:03
MacSlowsistpoty|work, makes the upload work in the ppa (e.g. I have yet to see it appear in the PPA-page or get an upload-confirmation email15:04
sistpoty|workMacSlow: ah, sorry... I just saw that the files need to be put to the remote directory "~%(ppa)s/ubuntu" (but I'm not exactly sure to what the ~%(ppa)s expands to15:07
sistpoty|work+)15:08
BUGabundoany reports of intel wifi 4965 stop working on Jaunty after linux-backports-modules-2.6.28 (2.6.28-8.7 upgrade?15:08
sistpoty|workMacSlow: however I assume that dput -s should give the hint of what it expands to ;)15:11
pittijames_w: o_O http://jameswestby.net/weblog/debian/09-for-the-record.html15:12
ograjames_w, liar15:15
ograogra@osiris:~$ apt-cache show crap|grep -i maintainer15:15
ograW: Unable to locate package crap15:15
ograE: No packages found15:15
pittiasac: do you have a lock on bug 317860 or shall I do that now?15:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 317860 in mobile-broadband-provider-info "Request to upgrade to latest SVN 3G profiles" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31786015:30
asacpitti: yes. antti is currently moving15:32
asaci wanted to get all the pending stuff from launchpad committed15:32
pittiokay15:32
pittijust saw it on the sponsoring queue15:32
asacbut probably we have to prepatch that then15:32
directhextseliot, tested it, nvidia 180 from jaunty works perfectly on intrepid, so is ripe for SRUdom15:33
asacsure. thanks for the prod. i have an update round on my high-prio todo list :)15:33
asac(not that its a short list)15:33
tseliotdirecthex: I'm not sure as to whether we should do an SRU for this. Have a look at this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/33587915:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 335879 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-180 "nvidia driver 180.35 breaks KDE 4" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:34
directhextseliot, erm... what an odd bug15:35
pittiasac: wasn't meant to be a prod, I'm happy to do the upload; just checking whether anything should block it15:35
tseliotdirecthex: maybe you could file a backport request instead15:35
emgentit's official.. http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/results.png15:36
directhextseliot, if it's breaking systems, perhaps i should wait15:36
asacpitti:  i wanted to take all the other submissions we had. but given the long number of bugs we should just do it i guess15:36
directhextseliot, it's in my PPA so i can use it that way15:36
tseliotdirecthex: even better ;)15:36
directhextseliot, i put the latest upstream fglrx in there too for kicks15:37
tseliotdirecthex: good work :-)15:37
asacpitti: hmm. seems the bzr branch is broken :(15:37
asacsigh15:37
directhextseliot, which needed gentle massage to compile *cough* superm1, that's your cue *cough*15:37
asacpitti: i guess you can just branch it and the pull the rest from playground15:37
asacor do it the old way15:37
pittiasac: broken how?15:37
pittiwell, I'll figure it out15:38
asacpitti: all bzr playground syncs are broken on launchpad15:38
asacpitti: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/mobile-broadband-provider-info/trunk15:38
directhextseliot, http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1946545&postcount=46 implies 180.35++ should be fine15:38
pittiasac: ah, that; ok, no prob15:38
asacwhich is kind of a shame now that gnome mirrors everythng there15:38
tseliotdirecthex: good to know. This means that I won't have to revert to a previous version in Jaunty15:39
directhextseliot, assuming the next revision happens before release15:39
tseliotdirecthex: yes, of course ;)15:39
directhextseliot, got anyone you can poke into pushing a 180.36?15:39
asacpitti: just use http://bzr-playground.gnome.org/mobile-broadband-provider-info/trunk to get the latest or svn ;)15:40
pittiasac: yep15:40
tseliotdirecthex: usually I file a FFE and bug pitti for the upload :-P15:40
directhextseliot, i meant at nvidia, to let them know you really really need 180.35++ before april15:41
tseliotdirecthex: there's Aaron Plattner and he's subscribed to that bug report15:42
MacSlowsistpoty|work, so now the manual upload worked15:44
sistpoty|work:)15:44
MacSlowsistpoty|work, still no idea what's wrong with dput15:44
calcdoko: ping15:45
sistpoty|workMacSlow: maybe firewall problems (in case dput doesn't use passive mode)? (there should be an option to force passive mode for dput as well, can't recall right now)15:45
Keybukcjwatson: the problem isn't the proposal, it's the length of it15:45
KeybukI'm easily distracted15:45
Keybukso if the proposal is pretty long and complicated, by about half way do..ooh, shiny15:45
calcanyone in here know how to tell ant to compile java app to a specific source version of java (eg javac -source 5 foo)?15:45
=== cprov is now known as cprov-lunch
ScottKMacSlow: I'm finding LP very slow today, so it may just be hitting some internal timeouts.15:46
dokocalc: ?15:46
MacSlowscottK: hm... manual ftp was super fast and responsive15:46
calcdoko: do you know how to tell ant (i guess via build.xml?) to compile code using a specific java version eg javac -source 5 ?15:47
ScottKMaybe what sistpoty|work said about passive FTP then.  Dunno.15:47
calcdoko: i am trying to port some old java code over to using default-jdk15:47
dokocalc: javac -source 1.515:48
sconklinasac (or anyone): I'm seeing some new and wrong behavior on my Intrepid desktop that apparently started with a recent update - as  kernel guy I'm not sure how to debug or report it. The little applet displays in the window manager panel aren't being displayed correctly. My screen is two displays which are tiled (laptop display and an external monitor).  If anyone can suggest what to report it against I'll put in a full descriptio15:48
calcdoko: but how do i stick that into a cdbs rules that uses ant to build? :)15:48
asacsconklin: can you get me a screenshot that shows the problem15:49
sconklinwell, it will take a photo because of the two screens.15:50
sconklinbut yes15:50
dokocalc: see the cdbs page, there is a marcro called ANT_ARGS or something like that15:50
calcdoko: ok15:50
* cjwatson buys Keybuk some attention span15:59
Keybukyou can buy that shit?16:00
mneptokDUDE! wait ... what?16:03
=== kyselejsyrecek1 is now known as kyselejsyrecek
superm1directhex, what was missing from fglrx?  do you have some stuff needed for packaging?16:06
directhexsuperm1, ftbfs without xinerama added to build-deps16:06
directhexthe binary lib, not the dev headers16:07
Pici0016:07
directhexsuperm1, for catalyst 9.2, this is16:07
sconklinasac: sent screenshot link and description by  email16:07
directhexsuperm1, dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: couldn't find library libXinerama.so.1 needed by debian/xorg-driver-fglrx/usr/lib/libatiadlxx.so (its RPATH is '').16:08
directhexhttp://launchpadlibrarian.net/23372288/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.fglrx-installer_2%3A8.582-0ubuntu1~intrepid~dhx1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz16:08
superm1directhex, did you check if phorogit had that already resolved?16:08
superm1directhex, http://www.phorogit.com/index.php?p=fglrx-packaging.git&t=097e896bf9c55b440b907541f6e3e18ff141474816:08
directhexsuperm1, never heard of it!16:09
superm1directhex, yeah it looks like the packaging that got included in the 9.2 was a little behind what was in phorogit.  AMD regularly takes snapshots when they do releases16:09
asacsconklin: instead of mail you could have opened a bug directly ;)16:10
savvaserm.. is the default locale dir /usr/share/locale or /usr/share/locale-langpack ?16:11
sconklinasac: I will, just don't know what to report it against16:11
slangasekseb128: desktop ISOs grew 4 MB overnight, with most of the new packages coming from GNOME; any ideas what grew?16:12
asacsconklin: if its the applet its network-manager-applet to start with16:12
asacsconklin: let me look at mail. wait a sec16:12
directhexsuperm1, so i'm just behind the times, then. still, 9.2 packages for intrepid \o/16:13
asacsconklin: whats the subject?16:13
sconklinscreenshot.16:14
sconklinno period16:14
superm1directhex, yeah i wish there was a good way to get those scripts updated on demand.  if you've got ideas, i'd be open16:14
seb128slangasek: no16:16
seb128slangasek: there was no major changes in GNOME packages as far as I know16:16
slangasekseb128: ok; I'll dig into it (and grumble some more about how we should store the package size info with the builds or in the logs :)16:16
directhexgraph it, per package, using historic data from launchpad!16:17
directhexthrow in some magic to let you see how much space a given dep tree used on a given timestamp, do it with ajax or flash or silverlight or something & make it responsive enough to be useful...16:21
* directhex tickles jcastro 16:26
ttxslangasek: I just read your comment @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/254151/comments/4 -- I suppose we should abandon the proposed 'fix' in bug 312449, then ?16:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 312449 in samba "samba-common fails to upgrade if smb.conf is deleted" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31244916:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 254151 in samba "samba fails to install prperly after unnistall+deleting smb.conf" [Undecided,Invalid]16:28
slangasekttx: yeah, no matter how obvious it might seem to restore a config file whose absence breaks the package, doing that automatically breaks one of the assumptions about how config files work in Debian...  if we think this is needed, then I would like it to get wider discussion on ubuntu-devel16:31
ttxslangasek: it's not really needed, it's just we keep on getting samba bug reports about it, so it's a triage effort to educate users to apt-get purge samba-common16:33
* ttx ponders echoing a more useful error message16:33
BUGabundoapw: ping16:33
BUGabundohttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/+bug/193970?comments=all16:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 193970 in linux "iwl3945 | iwl4965: Wireless can't be activated after disabling kill switch" [Medium,Confirmed]16:34
BUGabundoI'm one of those that lost WiFi16:34
apwBUGabundo, lets take that to #ubuntu-kernel16:34
ttxslangasek: Failing with <<Not replacing deleted config file /etc/samba/smb.conf -- run "sudo apt-get purge samba-common">> might help...16:35
* ttx will adjust patch.16:35
slangasekttx: should we tell them to purge the package, or just cp /usr/share/samba/smb.conf /etc/samba/smb.conf?16:36
ttxslangasek: cp sounds more productive.16:36
savvasAbout locale translations directory: should a program read /usr/share/locale-langpack as well as /usr/share/locale ?16:37
liwis there an .ics feed somewhere that actually has ubuntu release dates such as UI freeze?16:37
ttx"cp and dpkg --configure -a"16:37
slangasekliw: http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/JauntyReleaseSchedule.ics16:38
liwslangasek, I have that configured in evolution, it doesn't show anything about a UI freeze :(16:38
liwno, wait16:38
liwwebcal://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/UbuntuReleaseSchedule.ics16:39
liwthat's what I have16:39
slangasekliw: that's not JauntyReleaseSchedule :)16:39
liwslangasek, so I need both?16:39
cjwatsonor 'dpkg --force-confnew -i /var/cache/apt/archives/samba-common_whatever.deb'16:39
cjwatsonUbuntuReleaseSchedule is the 10000-foot view16:39
cjwatsonJauntyReleaseSchedule has the details16:39
slangasekcjwatson: is ucf going to honor --force-confnew?16:39
cjwatsonslangasek: oh, ucf? probably not then16:39
slangasekit might! but I haven't tried :)16:40
Mithrandirwe could teach it to, but currently dpkg doesn't pass it to subprocesses.16:40
* slangasek nods16:40
liwcjwatson, slangasek: so I only need the JauntyReleaseSchedule one?16:40
Keybukyou could walk your pid and read its cmdline16:41
Keybukppid16:41
* liw seems to have a long evening ahead of him, to fix a few UI problems in computer-janitor before tomorrow16:42
slangasekliw: you only need the {Jaunty,Karmic,Lackadaisical}ReleaseSchedules16:42
slangasekKeybuk: hiss16:42
liwslangasek, ok, thanks16:42
seb128slangasek: did you figure what changed between yesterday and today?16:43
slangasekseb128: not yet16:43
* RainCT is back16:57
RainCT>> Btw, poweroff / reboot don't work anymore here since I updated my laptop to Jaunty ("halt" works, though)     -     Any idea?16:57
slangasekseb128: gnome-games-data grew by 2M17:11
slangasekseb128: I guess that's not really bloat and we should find room for it :)17:11
seb128slangasek: I guess that's extra translations and screenshots17:12
slangasekah17:12
slangasekgnome-user-guide also grew by 1.6M17:13
seb128likely same story17:14
seb128I'm downloading the gnome-games-data to make sure17:14
seb128slangasek: gnome-games could be another good candidate for documentation split if we still want to win some CD space17:15
_MMA_Can anyone tell me if there's a written policy for installing *anything* to /root?17:15
highvoltageHas *anyone* at canonical actually looked at http://www.ubuntu.com/education/management#licence ?17:16
slangasekseb128: we're not desperate for CD space - I definitely have some langpacks I can kick off as needed - I'm just trying to stay on top of the size changes as they happen since that's way easier than figuring out where the space went afterwards17:16
highvoltageIt says "All Ubuntu software is released under GPL, which means it is effectively licence free as opposed to free licence. "17:16
Keybukcjwatson: been doing a bit of research into the whole /etc/adjtime thing17:16
Keybukcjwatson: what was ppc using that for?17:16
highvoltageit also says "# Ubuntu is Licence Free"17:16
Keybukbecause afaict, the contents of the file are never actually used by default17:16
Keybukjust kept up to date17:16
slangasekseb128: anyway, getting evolution off of python 2.5 is the first priority as far as space :)17:16
slangasek_MMA_: "don't"17:16
seb128slangasek: well, one of the things I would like for jaunty is as many language packs on the CD as possible17:16
seb128slangasek: doko said a rebuild would be enough and we did upload a new version?17:17
Chipzz_MMA_: I think it is considered a homedir just like other users' homedirs17:17
Chipzzwhich you shouldn't touch17:17
Chipzzslangasek: on that note, debian-installer DOES install a .profile etc in /root17:18
Chipzzor at least, sth does17:18
_MMA_slangasek: I need more than that. :) Why I worded things the way I did. Is what Chipzz said pretty much the reason? (the only one I could think of also)17:18
calcdoko: how do i determine what the default -bootclasspath is so i can override it sanely?17:18
slangasekseb128: ah - must not have been a livefs rebuild yet with that version of python; I do see that the alternate CDs have come down in size17:18
calcdoko: is there a way to have eg javac tell me?17:18
seb128slangasek: right, the current jaunty version depends on libpython2.617:19
slangasekChipzz: 'adduser' is what creates it in /root, using /etc/skel17:19
Chipzzslangasek: I don't think it is17:19
Chipzzslangasek: because the .profile etc for root differ from the .bash_profile for regular users17:20
cjwatsonKeybuk: I think it was the same as x86, but don't honestly remember for sure - the powerpc-utils package is probably more useful than I17:20
seb128slangasek: gnome-games-data17:20
seb128Installed-Size: [-43088-] {+40264+}17:20
seb128Version: [-1:2.25.91-0ubuntu1-] {+1:2.25.92-0ubuntu1+}17:20
cjwatsonhighvoltage: meep. Is there a website bug on this?17:21
Chipzzie regular users get a .bash_profile, root gets a .profile (which is substantially different from, and shorter than, the .bash_profile)17:21
Keybukcjwatson: you said you found that ppc was putting magic times in there to cope with obscenely old clocks17:21
seb128slangasek: weird that the deb got bigger17:21
Keybukand that ppc-utils was moving the file around?17:21
slangasek_MMA_: it is a homedir, and you shouldn't install things to it from a package for that reason, yes17:21
cjwatsonKeybuk: and then I said that I'd said that without looking at the code, and when I looked at the code I found that it was basically just a hwclock clone17:21
seb128slangasek: in fact they added quite some localized screenshots17:21
slangasekseb128: hmmm, strange17:21
Keybukcjwatson: oh, so it doesn't even use util-linux-ng's?17:22
slangasekseb128: unless the 'installed-size' between the two has been calculated on two different machines with different block sizes17:22
cjwatsonKeybuk: but I also said that there was a problem unique to powerpc where hardware battery failures could result in negative Unix time after boot, which means that it's particularly important on those systems to ensure a vaguely current time even if the network is not avaiable17:22
cjwatsonavailable17:22
Keybukcjwatson: right, but if it's not using hwclock, it's nothing to do with me - right? :p17:22
dokoslangasek: what are the current sizes?17:23
slangasekChipzz: well, .profile != .bash_profile, obviously; I could be mistaken about whether d-i uses adduser when setting up the root account, but that seems like it'd be doing things the hard way17:23
highvoltagecjwatson: LaserJock has just alerted news2000, I'll check check with him whether there's a bug17:23
cjwatsonKeybuk: the reason various people mentioned you was that the removal of adjtime broke installation of the powerpc-utils package17:23
cjwatsonChipzz: base-files installs /root/.profile in its postinst17:23
Keybukcjwatson: but I only changed the util-linux-ng postinst17:23
Keybuknot ppc-utils17:23
seb128slangasek: dpkg-deb -x and du gives 27 to 29 megas17:23
Chipzzslangasek: hrrrm I was mistaken too; regular users get a .profile; but it's still different17:23
seb128slangasek: I guess the "installed-size" is not smart about symlinks?17:23
cjwatsonKeybuk: didn't you arrange for /etc/adjtime no longer to be created at installation?17:24
dokocalc: why would you want to override it? afaik _rene_ did do some experiments on this, so maybe ask him17:24
Keybukcjwatson: no, just removed on upgrade17:24
Keybukin the util-linux postinst17:24
slangasekdoko: currently, 715/717 MB for the desktop CDs; python2.5 is still on there, looking into that now17:24
seb128slangasek: the new version added some localized screenshots, which means symlinks replaced by real files17:24
_MMA_slangasek: Thanx man. There's a desire floating around to make the theme look more "cautious" when using su/sudo/root. Something like some of the XFCE apps do. It involved having a theme in /root. On to find plan "b".17:24
KeybukI don't know what creates it17:24
Chipzzcjwatson: thx :)17:24
Keybukyou suggested base-files17:24
Keybukbut I haven't looked into that17:24
cjwatsonKeybuk: all I know is that TheMuso said stuff now broke17:24
Keybuk:)17:24
cjwatsonI no longer have a functioning powerpc system to try it out myself17:24
slangasekseb128: hrm, it certainly should account for symlinks, AFAIK 'installed-size' is meant to be equivalent to 'du' :)17:25
Keybukme neither17:25
cjwatsoninstalled-size is implemented with du -k -s17:25
Keybukcjwatson: base-files does create one though17:25
seb128slangasek: well it's not17:25
cjwatsonor 'cd $builddir && du -k -s .' really17:25
seb128$ du -ksh 9117:25
seb12827M9117:25
cjwatsonKeybuk: yes17:25
Keybukin its postinst17:25
seb128$ dpkg -I gnome-games-data_2.25.91-0ubuntu1_all.deb | grep Install17:26
seb128 Installed-Size: 4308817:26
Keybukcjwatson: and, in fact, hard-codes an assumption that the hardware clock is in UTC :p17:26
seb128where 91 is a dpkg-deb -x deb 9117:26
Keybukbet the installer doesn't change that17:26
cjwatsonKeybuk: I suspect the correct fix is to migrate whatever changes are in clock (the powerpc-utils one), migrate those to util-linux-ng, and then find whatever's calling the one from powerpc-utils and make it call the one from util-linux-ng insteas17:26
cjwatsoninstead17:27
Keybukright17:27
cjwatsonI don't think anyone is particularly attached to there being a separate version17:27
Keybuk*separately* to that17:27
Keybukwe need to decode whether or not we want an /etc/adjtime on our system17:27
Keybukif we do, I'll remove the rm from the util-linux postinst17:27
Keybukif we don't, we should remove its creation from the base-files postinst17:27
TheMusocjwatson: I don't think the utility from powerpc-utils actually gets used any more, so far as I checked. i.e its not used as an alternative, however I'll have to check that again.17:27
slangasekseb128: ok, I have no idea.  Maybe the buildd it builds on is using very large blocks17:28
KeybukI removed it because it's not *used*17:28
Chipzzcjwatson, Keybuk: on a seperate note, I'm doing automated installs using debian-installer and preseeding. in some cases I want to install configs in /etc . what should be the preferred way to do that?17:28
Keybukhwclock just keeps updating it17:28
Keybukwhich incurs a time cost17:28
seb128slangasek: ok, anyway the change is extra screenshots for localized documentation17:28
Keybukso I saved a few tenths of a second on boot and shutdown by not using it17:28
Keybukcjwatson: what are your thoughts here?17:29
cjwatsonKeybuk: the remaining value in base-files' creation of /etc/adjtime is that it gives a vaguely sane lower bound on the possible system time. I suggested that we replace this by having hwclock compare the system time with the timestamp on its own executable17:29
cjwatsonor something similar17:29
Keybukah17:30
cjwatsonsince the executable timestamp will be preserved during installation when extracting it with tar17:30
Keybukyou're missing the key piece of evidence17:30
Keybukyou can put whatever you like in that file17:30
Keybuk*hwclock doesn't use it*17:30
cjwatsonclock (from powerpc-utils) does17:30
Keybukso right now, the only purpose creating that file has, no matter what you put in it, is to slow down the boot and shutdown by a few tenths17:30
cjwatsonthat being the point of its postinst17:30
Keybukthat may be the key difference17:30
cjwatsonI suggest that you go and read its source; it should not take long17:31
Keybukif the ppc hwclock uses it as a baseline17:31
Keybukbut TheMuso says ppc doesn't use it anymore?17:31
cjwatsonit will certainly be faster than debating it with me, who has only gone and glanced over it :)17:31
Keybukcjwatson: what's the source package name?17:31
cjwatsonpowerpc-utils17:31
TheMusopowerpc-utils17:31
Keybuknot debating, seeking advice17:31
cjwatsonI'm not actually asserting that powerpc's clock setup is bug-free - not in the slightest17:31
cjwatsonit is entirely possible that it does not work properly17:31
cjwatsonnevertheless, this is a well-understood problem for those who have dealt with powerpc systems :)17:32
cjwatsonwe used to get Ubuntu bug reports fairly frequently that people rebooted their Mac and then the desktop wouldn't start17:32
cjwatsonand this turned out to be due to the clock17:32
cjwatsonso even if it doesn't get handled correctly right now, I think it should17:32
cjwatsonKeybuk: I think what you're missing is that I'm trying to describe what I think the correct state of affairs should be, rather than what the current state of affairs is :-)17:33
ograseb128, hey, i'm finally able to reproduce that gnome-keyring-daemon hang here ... getting the dbg version now and will attach some info to the bug17:33
cjwatsonI can no longer remember whether clock is called from anywhere17:33
seb128ok thanks17:33
KeybukTheMuso: does ppc still use this clock util instead of hwclock?17:33
seb128ogra: upstream is very responsive if you want to take that to bugzilla directly17:33
ograstrace just tells me FUTEX_WAIT if i attach to the process17:34
cjwatsonbut something along the lines of the above is the obvious way to fix this class of bugs17:34
TheMusoKeybuk: as I said above, I don't think so, but I would need to check on a working system.17:34
seb128ogra: would avoid having somebody doing the bug tracker pingpong for nothing17:34
ograseb128, understood17:34
seb128ogra: and they know their code better17:34
ograyup, though i'D love to know if its really only arm17:34
KeybukTheMuso: right, there's no init script in this package17:35
seb128ogra: we got no ubuntu desktop user running into that yet17:36
seb128ogra: so it's setup or arch specific17:36
ograseb128, yeah, thats what i thought17:36
liwI'm working on a new description for computer-janitor-gtk's main window. How does this sound: "This application helps you find and remove software packages that might not be needed anymore. It also suggests configuration changes that might benefit your system."17:38
cjwatsonI haven't thought hard about it, but just in case nobody else says, "anymore" => "any more"17:38
Keybukcjwatson: some brief packaging archaeology indicates that Ubuntu has *never* used clock on ppc17:38
Keybukit's always used hwclock17:38
cjwatsonKeybuk: ok17:38
Keybukand Debian hasn't for almost 8 years either ;)17:39
Keybuk+powerpc-utils (1.1.3-4) unstable; urgency=low17:39
Keybuk+17:39
Keybuk+  * Actually change maintainer name this time.17:39
Keybuk+  * No longer divert hwclock.sh; Debian kernels have included CONFIG_PPC_RTC17:39
Keybuk+    for a long enough time now.  Document the issue.  (Closes: #99875).17:39
Keybuk+  * Builds on current unstable now.  (Closes: #99735).17:39
Keybuk+17:39
Keybuk+ -- Daniel Jacobowitz <dan@debian.org>  Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:01:36 -070017:39
cjwatsonwould it be worth ensuring that the necessary magic from clock.c is now in hwclock.c?17:39
Keybukcjwatson: that's the thing, there isn't any "necessary magic"17:39
liwcjwatson, I'll change it to "any more"17:39
cjwatsonKeybuk: aha17:39
Keybukyou could do the same by just calling hwclock --adjust on boot17:39
cjwatsonin that case I see no reason why we can't just delete the adjtime stuff from powerpc-utils.postinst17:40
Keybukand we know why we don't want to do that :p17:40
Keybukcjwatson: TheMuso already has17:40
Keybukcjwatson: so separately to that, do we want to patch hwclock to use a common timestamp as a lower-bound for whatever it sets the system time to?17:41
cjwatsonKeybuk: I'm just thinking about how it will appear to users17:42
cjwatsonobviously we want to ensure that Unix time is always >= 017:42
cjwatsonbut it occurs to me that it might be rather confusing if it gets set to a (to a user) essentially random time17:42
cjwatsonwhich happens to be sometime around the release of your operating system17:42
cjwatsonmaybe the correct approach is if (time < 0) time = 0;17:43
cjwatsonthat way they say "hey, my computer says it's in January 1970" and we can easily say "ah, your hardware battery appears to have been eaten by a gorilla"17:43
cjwatsonand a lot of people would recognise "clock in January 1970" as a symptom of a hardware bug, whereas "clock in March 2009" maybe not so much17:44
cjwatsonyes, I have persuaded myself17:44
Keybukwhy would time be < 0 ?17:45
Mithrandirbecause macs are special.17:45
KeybukI'm just tracing the effect of the current adjtime file on hwclock17:45
* slangasek raises his fist at the battery-eating ape. "Koooooooooong!"17:46
Keybukbase-files sets last_adj_time = <bignum>17:46
Keybukand last_calib_time = <same bignum>17:46
Keybukbut drift_factor=0.0 and not_adjusted=0.017:46
Keybukonly drift_factor and last_adj_time are used17:47
cjwatsonKeybuk: the reason why time might be <0 is that the Mac epoch is somewhere in 190417:48
Keybukand last_adj_time is subtracted from the current time and multipled by the factor17:48
Keybukwhich is 017:48
cjwatsonso if a Mac's CMOS-battery-equivalent fails, it starts up with the hardware clock in 1904 by default17:48
Keybukso the adjustment will always be 017:48
Keybukthus the current base-files adjtime does nothing useful to hwclock17:48
cjwatsonI believe you17:48
Keybukit just says "hey, the clock last had 0 drift at <some time>"17:48
KeybukI suspect this is a regression from clock.c17:48
cjwatsonI'm not saying that /etc/adjtime in base-files is the right approach :)17:49
KeybukI know, I'm just following through all the lines to make sure I'm not missing the pachyderm in the pantry17:49
Keybuk*blink*17:50
Keybukerr17:50
Keybukclock.c multiplies by the drift factor as well17:50
Keybukso unless I'm mistaken17:52
Keybukthis "writing some standard time into adjtime" has no effect17:52
Keybukand didn't have any effect on ppc either17:52
cjwatsonmaybe that wasn't the intent at all17:53
cjwatsonI never actually saw a reason for it, and was extrapolating based on a best guess17:53
Keybukthe field it puts it in is just a comment, basically17:53
Keybukhwclock and clock.c only use it to avoid adjusting more than once a day17:53
cjwatsonperhaps the adjtime increments on all of Santiago's base-files uploads were for some other reason - an attempt to minimise drift?17:53
Keybukagain, wouldn't have any effect; the drift factor being 0.0 would tell hwclock to start afresh17:53
Keybukdoes Santiago IRC? :p17:55
=== cprov-lunch is now known as cprov
Keybuk(ie. could we ask him why he periodically updates it)17:59
slangasekno, he doesn't18:00
LaserJockjames_w: what do you mean by "LTS doesn't know what LTS+1 is going to be called"?18:04
james_wto implement it by mime types you would need to name the type for each cd differently18:05
RainCTLaserJock: Karmic+1 has no name yet18:05
james_we.g. x-content/ubuntu-cd-jaunty18:05
LaserJockwhy don't we use the release numbers?18:05
james_wI guess you could18:05
cjwatsonKeybuk: usually fairly responsive to mail IIRC18:06
Keybukint rtc_valid_tm(struct rtc_time *tm)18:06
Keybuk{18:06
Keybuk        if (tm->tm_year < 7018:06
Keybuk                || ((unsigned)tm->tm_mon) >= 1218:06
Keybuk                || tm->tm_mday < 118:06
Keybuk                || tm->tm_mday > rtc_month_days(tm->tm_mon, tm->tm_year + 1900)18:06
Keybuk                || ((unsigned)tm->tm_hour) >= 2418:06
Tm_TLaserJock: james_w: release numbers maight move too18:06
Keybuk                || ((unsigned)tm->tm_min) >= 6018:06
Keybuk                || ((unsigned)tm->tm_sec) >= 60)18:06
Keybuk                return -EINVAL;18:06
Keybuk        return 0;18:06
Keybuk}18:06
KeybukEXPORT_SYMBOL(rtc_valid_tm);18:06
Keybukoops18:06
Keybukoverpaste18:06
Keybukbut anyway, the kernel itself rejects any hardware clock with a year < 197018:06
LaserJockTm_T: how do you mean?18:06
james_wLaserJock: really the issue is that the spec doesn't have room to say x-content/ubuntu-cd-${something you find from the disk, i.e. release number}18:06
Tm_TLaserJock: I know it's not expected, but remember 6.06 (:18:07
LaserJockTm_T: no, but there's logic ther18:07
james_wLaserJock: if you read the shared-mime-info spec and can come up with a workable solution then please propose it18:07
LaserJockwell, I don't care about the mime stuff18:07
LaserJockI think we need logic18:07
LaserJockI don't care where it is18:07
LaserJockjust have the mime call a wrapper that does the proper logic18:07
slangasekcjwatson: what does this error point to?: Missing debootstrap-required python2.5-minimal18:08
slangasek(alternate CD build failure)18:08
james_wLaserJock: ok, please provide that logic in such a way that it can be reasonably integrated in to Ubuntu and I will happily review it. I couldn't see a way to achieve what you want given the current state of things18:08
keesdoes anyone know the right magic for CDBS to run test.py from a python package?18:09
Keybukkees: three chicken livers, a raw egg and twice widdershins by candle light iirc18:10
LaserJockjames_w: I would think x-content/ubuntu-cd could call a wrapper script that checks /etc/lsb-release and the .iso contents and pops up the appropriate dialog18:10
LaserJockjames_w: does that make sense?18:10
elmospeaking of clocks, it's never been clear to me why something (userland or kernel) doesn't automatically slew the time to 2009-01-01 12:00 if it finds the clock is set earlier than that18:10
elmoit would avoid the mac 1904 thing breaking your desktop, if nothing else18:11
Keybukelmo: that's pretty much the discussion we're having18:11
elmooh, ok18:11
elmosorry18:11
james_wLaserJock: apart from the fact that you are talking about a string running code, yes. Please go look at what is available and you will see that that is not so easy in the current framework.18:11
Keybukit looks like santiago regularly updates /etc/adjtime in base-files with a value Colin *thinks* is precisely for that purpose18:11
=== pgraner is now known as pgraner-afk
Keybukbut nothing will use that18:11
elmo\o/18:12
LaserJockjames_w: I didn't say it was easy, I just said that seems like the most logical way to handle use cases and be non-confusing to users18:13
james_wLaserJock: I agree18:13
james_wLaserJock: my proposal was something that for little effort could improve the situation. If you want to put in more effort and improve it further I have no problem with you doing so.18:14
LaserJockjames_w: I just don't want the Ubuntu Education CD to open nautilus, if our current popup still happens then I'm certainly OK with what you're doing18:15
cjwatsonslangasek: usually wrong priorities (see priority-mismatches.txt); but I already adjusted those priorities today18:15
cjwatsonslangasek: so I think that that should clear itself up tomorrow18:15
slangasekok, thanks18:15
james_wLaserJock: well, that's not what I understood from your email18:16
slangasekI'll probably do another CD build run today, to check sizes18:16
LaserJockjames_w: that my only real concern18:16
LaserJockjames_w: "what'd be nice" is different ;-)18:16
james_wLaserJock: in fact reading your email again I still don't get that message18:17
keesKeybuk: I hate adding chicken livers to the build-deps18:17
LaserJockjames_w: oh? I certainly wasn't attacking your proposal18:18
TheMusoab/c18:19
LaserJockjames_w: just saying that perhaps we can do even better (whatever the time frame) by adding more logic18:19
james_wLaserJock: no, but you seemed to be talking about the other thing more, and I completely missed the fact that you didn't want nautilus to open18:19
LaserJockjames_w: well, that's because I just have the one use case in the Edu CD18:20
LaserJockso I was trying to speak generally18:20
LaserJockbut the Edu CD is a concern for me regarding how the CD is opened18:21
LaserJockas that's actually our "installer"18:21
sconklinTheMuso: I have a bug reported against alsa and I'm not familiar with the structure or how to tell if it's kernel vs. userspace - if you suspend and resume with the headphones plugged in, you never get the speakers back on no matter whether the headphone is unplugged. Any advice?18:53
sconklinI need a skooling in alsa18:53
TheMusosconklin: bug number?18:55
sconklinTheMuso: in another chat18:56
TheMusosconklin: gotcha18:56
superm1sconklin, wouldn't that likely be an EAPD bit not getting set correctly on the kernel side most likely after resume?18:57
sconklinsuperm1: could be, I've not dealt with sound at all really18:58
=== fader is now known as fader|lunch
mvodoko: re the python relaeated upgrade question you asked during the meeting. there is currently #337705 pending, that needs to get resolved before we can give green light for upgrades again19:08
=== mrooney1 is now known as mrooney
kirklandmvo: hi there, around?19:17
mvokirkland: yes, but almost ready to leave for the evening19:18
kirklandmvo: okay, could you please point me to the file that updates /var/run/updates-available?19:19
kirklandmvo: there's a minor tweak i'd like to test, and send you a patch for19:19
kirklandmvo: basically, removing that file is giving me problems;  would be much better if it printed "0 updates available" instead ...19:19
tedgSo why am I blocked from calling ConsoleKit's "GetSessions" when I can just introspect on the ConsoleKit object and get the paths that are on the object anyway?19:21
Keybuka bug?19:22
tedgJust the latter one forces me to parse the strings to determine which are sessions (oh, and all the XML)19:22
mvokirkland: debian/99update-notifier removes it again19:22
mvokirkland: (in the lp:update-notifier source)19:22
kirklandmvo: awesome, thanks.19:22
kirklandmvo: i'll get this tested, and have a patch for you to review tomorrow19:23
tedgKeybuk: Hmm, so you don't see any reason?19:23
mvokirkland: ok, thanks19:23
Keybuktedg: no formal reason19:23
Keybukit's either a bug that you can introspect19:23
Keybukor a bug you can't call getsessions19:23
mvokirkland: on desktop system this should not be a issue because update-notifier is running all the time and notices that the cache changed and that it needs to update that file19:23
mvokirkland: for the server it is of course19:24
tedgKeybuk: Do you know of any security issues with knowing how many sessions there are?19:24
Keybuk*shrug*19:24
Keybuknot off hand ;)19:24
ograck-list-sessions showsw them all anyway19:24
mvokirkland: it would be nice if the calcuation would not be duplicated, ie. if the running u-n picked up the change already it should not be done agan by update-motd (but we can talk how to do this tomorrow)19:25
tedgogra: Hmm, so why can I do that, but I can't call it over DBus.  Does 'ck-list-sessions' not do DBus?19:25
ograno idea :)19:25
ograi just know that it shows all sessions19:25
kirklandmvo: you bet19:26
tedgHeh, so ck-list-sessions doesn't call "GetSessions" it calls "GetSeats" and then "GetSessions" on each seat, which I'm allowed to do :)19:32
liwslangasek, are you around? I'd like to ask about an ffe for computer-janitor, for some UI fixes19:33
slangasekliw: hi19:33
liwslangasek, this is embarrassingly basic, but... I'd like to have a new version of computer-janitor uploaded, with three UI changes and a package description change, all pretty small; should I file bugs to request freeze exception before the package gets uploaded, or should the upload happen first?19:39
beunoliw, computer-janitor!  I'm happy to see you solved it  :)19:40
tedgKeybuk: Do you know where that policy is set?  It seems like the consolekit stuff in /usr/share/PolicyKit/policy doesn't set these functions.19:40
liwbeuno, I failed to solve the more glaring usability problems, alas19:40
slangasekliw: bug first; if you upload, the package will go straight into the archive, so that gives the release team no opportunity to object19:41
beunoliw, did my suggestions not really fix the problem?19:41
Keybuktedg: that sounds like simple dbus policy19:41
Keybukso /etc/dbus-1/system.d19:41
liwbeuno, I failed to find a good way to implement them and the UI freeze snuck up on me, since I had subscribed to the wrong calendar and I generally suck19:41
genchoby default ? :)19:42
beunoliw, argh, sorry to hear that. Let me know if I can help you at all at any point19:42
liwslangasek, ack; and should I file bugs for the UI change that didn't have a bug, and the package description change?19:42
liwbeuno, sure, thanks19:42
slangasekliw: well - we're not in UI freeze yet, could those changes get in before tomorrow without a UIFe?19:42
slangasekliw: in any case, it's preferable from my end to have a single bug documenting all the changes in the upload, so I can review it at once19:43
liwslangasek, hm, I'm confusing myself, I think... they're not really feature changes, either, so perhaps I don't need feature freeze exceptions either19:43
slangasekliw: if that means adding information to the existing bug, or filing a completely new bug with a summary, either is fine for me19:44
slangasekliw: but if you can upload it without a freeze exception at all, even better, that saves us both time on paperwork :)19:44
liwslangasek, I'll decide that I don't need freeze exception at all, thanks; now I just need to find someone to upload this to main19:45
tedgKeybuk: Yup, that's what I wanted, thanks!19:45
slangasekliw: if you don't find anyone else, throw it at me and I can commit to uploading it before end of day19:46
liwslangasek, thank you19:46
* liw waves to mvo19:46
jelmerdidrocks, ping19:49
didrocksjelmer: pong19:50
slangasekliw: please be explicit that you're doing this, of course, so I know it's on my todo list :)19:50
liwslangasek, of course19:50
liwslangasek, I'll e-mail you if I can't lure mvo into uploading for me19:50
slangasekok19:50
davmor2meh I just found a bug but I'm not sure what to report it against.  If you use the youtube plugin in totem and get the codec update so it works you then can't install ubuntu-restricted-extras from add/remove? So what is at fault is it totem for installing the wrong thing, add/remove for poor package management or the codec that is causing the issue?19:53
slangasekpitti, doko: FYI, I'm taking care of transitioning postgresql-8.3 to python 2.619:55
davmor2D'oh wrong channel I need to look up from time to time :(19:56
didrocksjelmer: ? :)19:56
jelmerdidrocks: sorry19:57
jelmerdidrocks, I was wondering what's left to be done for evolution-mapi19:57
didrocksjelmer: it's ok, it will entered soon the archives. seb128 gave the FFe19:58
jelmerdidrocks: cool, thanks!19:58
didrocksjelmer: you're welcome :)19:58
* didrocks is striking on a yelp regression…19:59
=== beuno_ is now known as beuno
jdstranddoko: fyi-- I responded to your questions in bug #337705 (letting you know here since I didn't see you were subscribed to the bug)20:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 337705 in ufw "ufw crashes in trigger on intrepid->jaunty upgrade" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33770520:12
=== fader|lunch is now known as fader
pittislangasek: /away -all20:21
pittiargh, sorry20:21
pittislangasek: oh, ok; will grab the diff from LP then and commit it to Debian20:21
slangasekpitti: the diff is "build1"20:21
pitti:)20:21
mvojdstrand: I outlined a possible workaround there as well (not a great one, but good enough)20:22
mvojdstrand: the upgrade test is still running20:22
jdstrandmvo: you mean python conflicting with versioned ufw?20:22
mvojdstrand: yes20:23
jdstrandmvo: it seems we are seeing this primarily because ufw is a python app that uses triggers...20:24
jdstrandmvo: it would be best if this could be handled within ufw, since we know there will eveentually be other python transitions20:24
calcugh i crashed strace20:25
mvojdstrand: I think it will be less of a issue with the next transition because now it has "Depends: python (>= 2.5), python (<< 2.7)20:25
calcit helps if debugging utilities weren't buggy themselves, lol :)20:25
mvojdstrand: this will ensure that on the next transition ufw will get updated to a new version before the new python gets installed20:26
mvojdstrand: I put that as a altnernative (less good) solution to issue a update for the intrepid version that does the same (for python (<< 2.6)20:26
dokomvo, jdstrand: well, but it won't help if we have only one python version in the distro?20:27
mvojdstrand: more robustness inside ufw is always a plus of course :) I'm not sure what the best way to handle this is inside ufw, I do not enough enough about it20:27
mvodoko: what would not help? the >= 2.5,  <<2.7 depends?20:28
jdstrandmvo: I suppose I could program defensively around frontend.py not being available, but it would necessarily have to exit20:28
jdstrandmvo: and we lose the trigger...20:28
dokomvo: ahh, ok, but then the package could be updated in intrepid as well?20:28
mvojdstrand: I guess the question is what does a missed trigger mean20:29
dokojdstrand: are the iptables still in place when the package is removed?20:29
ivoksseb128: ping20:29
jdstrandmvo: it ends up being called later in the upgrade, so I don't think it would be too horrible20:29
mvodoko: right, I put that as a solution into the bugreport, its not ideal though because people may upgrade without intrepid-updates (e.g. when they do CD->CD upgrades without network)20:29
mvojdstrand: sounds like a good solution then, does not help for the problem with the intrepid version though20:30
jdstranddoko: yes. default is set to ACCEPT on purge20:30
seb128ivoks: contextless ping gives no reply20:30
mvowe could do some magic in update-manager (e.g. killing the trigger before the upgrade or something ugly like that). but I would prefer a solution that avoids that20:30
ivoksseb128: evolution-mapi didn't work at all; evolution crashed on authentication20:30
dokook, so the rules stay intact during upgrade20:30
ivoksseb128: right, sorry20:30
jdstranddoko: heh, I meant 'no. default is set to ACCEPT on purge'20:31
seb128ivoks: oh? did you get a stacktrace?20:31
seb128ivoks: thanks for testing20:31
dokojdstrand: but not on remove?20:31
dokoor upgrade20:31
ivoksseb128: not yet, i'll test more... i got vpn connection to that site, so i'll investigate more these days20:31
jdstranddoko: putting triggers aside, remove and upgrade does not touch the iptables rules20:32
dokojdstrand, mvo: another solution would be to create another symlink farm in /usr/share/ufw/lib or something like this, and fall back to this if the module cannot be found on sys.path. ugly as well ...20:33
seb128ivoks: thanks!20:33
mvodoko: and would mean to update the intrepid version again :/20:33
tedgIt seems that ConsoleKit is failing to build, but I'm reasonably certain I didn't do it :)  Is there any reason the documentation would fail to build?  http://www.tighturl.com/c1w20:34
dokomvo: please could you update python-defaults then? I'm away then. so it's not a packaging helper problem.20:34
mvodoko: sure, is it maintained in bzr or should I just use the package20:35
mvodoko: no helper problem, just a general upgrade problem20:35
ivoksseb128: np20:36
mvo(I initially though it was a unpack/configure race, but that was not it)20:36
mvotought20:36
mvothought *sigh*20:36
* mvo needs sleep20:36
jdstrandheh20:36
jdstrandmvo: I can certainly fix jaunty and do an SRU for intrepid which would minimize the impact20:37
jdstrandmvo: but if you are adjusting python deps, I guess the SRU is not needed20:38
jdstrands/deps/conflicts/20:38
mvojdstrand: yeah, I think so too20:38
mvojdstrand: the sru is not sufficient to deal with all users so we can as well skip it and add the workaround20:38
jdstrandmvo: can you add a task to the bug for whatever python package needs updating? will you handle the change to that package or shall I?20:39
mvojdstrand: I can do the python update20:41
calcanyone know why i see weird stuff in my strace log like this: 22379 14:39:51.796775 read(56, "\1\0\0\0\2\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\20\0\0\0output.strace\0\0\0"..., 1024) = 3220:41
calcit looks like strace is dumping some of its own info into the strace output file20:41
jdstrandmvo: cool, thanks. I'll fix up ufw20:41
davmor2Meh launchpad keeps timing out on me :(  is there anyway that libavcodec52 and libavutils49 can be replaced by lbavcodec-unstripped-52 and libavutils-unstripped-4920:45
davmor2meh sorry hit enter. when upgrading from totem's codec install to ubuntu-restricte-extras20:46
davmor2s/restricte/restricted20:47
oliver_g_1hi20:53
oliver_g_1I tried running `bzr  branch "http://package-import.ubuntu.com/v/vino/jaunty"` on my Debian Lenny system, and it complained that "Bazaar Branch Format 7 (needs bzr 1.6)"...20:53
oliver_g_1is there a mirror available of these repos which works with older bzr versions as well?20:54
oliver_g_1(bzr on my system is at 1.5-1.1)20:54
oliver_g_1or, do you know another way to quickly see the changes between Vino from Intrepid and Vino from Jaunty?20:55
Rocket2DMnpitti, ping, can I borrow a moment of your time?21:02
LaserJockoliver_g_1: you could grab the actual source packages and debdiff21:03
oliver_g_1LaserJock: sounds good21:04
oliver_g_1LaserJock: what would be the command to get a diff between two source packages?21:05
LaserJockoliver_g_1: debdiff <first package>.dsc <second package>.dsc21:06
calchow do i set a breakpoint for c++ code that has weird parameters?21:07
oliver_g_1LaserJock: thanks, that worked nicely21:10
oliver_g_1with 2x dget and then debdiff21:10
pittipersia, TheMuso: could you please pull lp:~pitti/usplash-theme-ubuntustudio/usplash-theme-4/ into lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/usplash-theme-ubuntustudio/ubuntu ? I just uploaded it21:17
TheMusopitti: sure, will take care of that now.21:17
pittiTheMuso: thank you21:18
LaserJockpitti: were you planning on updating edubuntu's usplash?21:22
pittiLaserJock: yes, I'm doing them all21:22
LaserJockpitti: don't bother, I'm removing it altogether21:23
pittiLaserJock: oh, ok; shall I remove the package now/21:23
pitti?21:23
LaserJockpitti: if you want21:23
pittiLaserJock: what shall I put as rationale?21:23
LaserJockwe decided with our status as an addon and the maintanence burden that we'd just get rid of our usplash21:24
TheMusopitti: pulled and pushed to our branch, thanks a lot.21:24
pittiokay21:24
LaserJockit doesn't make sense to change all branding when we're just an addon21:24
pittiright21:24
LaserJockand I don't want to mess with usplash bugs ;-)21:24
pittiTheMuso: thanks21:25
slangasekpitti: why did you mark bug #217504 as 'triaged' again for linux?  AFAICS there's no change we're going to make to the kernel for this21:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 217504 in linux "acpi_fakekey stopped working for certain keycodes" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21750421:27
pittislangasek: I thought we'd still need acpi-support for all the ACPI events that the kernel doesn't (yet) convert to key events?21:28
pittiif we instead want to fix all those in the kernel, I'm more than happy to drop the acpi_fakekey hack21:29
slangasekpitti: then that would be a bug on acpi-support, or am I missing some reason it should be assigned to linux?21:29
pittislangasek: it's meant to be on acpi-support, yes21:29
slangasekthe acpi_fakekey hack is already broken; are you proposing to revert the upstream kernel change?  oh, ok21:29
pittisorry if I screwed up something21:29
slangasekI was just confused because it was still listed against linux :)21:29
* TheMuso should have a play with plymouth at some point.21:30
pittisuperm1: hm, I'd like to fix mythbuntu-artwork-usplash, but the Vcs-Bzr: field is wrong; do you have the correct branch, or shall I just upload and send you the diff?21:31
superm1pitti, try lp:~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-artwork-usplash21:31
superm1what's it listed as?21:32
pittisuperm1: meh, I just typoed, sorry21:32
Davieypitti: What's up with it?21:32
pittiDaviey: I uploaded a new usplash which defines a new theme version, so I need to update/rebuild all usplash themes21:34
Davieypitti: okey, cool. Thanks21:36
pittiRocket2DMn: pong21:57
pittisuperm1: can you please pull lp:~pitti/%2Bjunk/mythbuntu-artwork-usplash-theme-4/ into lp:~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-artwork-usplash/ ?21:57
superm1pitti, sure21:59
* calc tries to get OOo to compile in full debug mode for debugging gvfs/gio breakage22:04
superm1pitti, merged, you can trash your branch now if you want22:04
pittisuperm1: thanks22:04
didrocksmdke: I found the issue in yelp. It's related to a new .in upstream file. Fixing it now22:06
calcit appears debug mode doesn't work it causes the build to fail, lovely :\22:06
calcyet another reason to attempt to switch to upstream version (/me bets this is ooo-build breakage)22:07
calcactually this looks like upstream never builds with debug mode (i think?) doesn't look like ooo-build broke it22:10
genchogood night guys and gals :)22:15
Rocket2DMnpitti, ping back22:23
pittigood night everyone22:29
Rocket2DMnah, good night, I'll talk to you tomorrow pitti22:31
mdkedidrocks: yay!! thanks a lot22:38
=== rgreening_ is now known as rgreening
mathiazslangasek: which test was failing for openldap 2.4.15 in debian? test034-translucent?23:36
slangasekmathiaz: no, it was a concurrency test23:36
slangaseki.e., it had 'concurrency' in the name23:36
slangasek(easy to guess why it failed, since it hung - non-trivial to debug, though)23:36
mathiazslangasek: hm ok. 2.4.15 fails to build because test034-translucent fails on jaunty23:37
slangasekhmm, not reproducible in sid23:38
avbguys, does gnome still use libgnome to play sound events?23:47
avbi figured out that only libgnome2-0 now depends on libesd23:47
avbso, once this functional is already depricated its probably will be good reason to drop this dependency and build it with --disable-esd23:48
TheMusoavb: no it now uses libcanberra, as of the verfsion in intrepid23:48
avbso it will be possible to drop libesd and esound-clients package from ubuntu-desktop23:48
TheMusoavb: No, because of pulseaudio's esound compatibility.23:49
TheMusoesound-clients maybe, but certainly not libesd23:49
TheMusobut again, I could be wrong.23:49
TheMusoit may no longer be needed.23:50
TheMusohaven't looked that deaply into it.23:50
avbi feel it should be more deeply researched.23:50
avbits hard to say for sure23:50
avbso just a thought for now23:50
TheMusoavb: certainly an idea for karmic.23:51
avblibesd will be installed as a dependency for an applications which it requires. and its nothing to do with pa esound  emulation, i feel23:51
TheMusook23:51
avbyes, i will research more what is what23:51
avband will send a mail to a ml23:51
avbprobably its a non needed job, coz i feel for gnome 2.28 libgnome will be completly deprecated23:52
TheMusoI don't know anything about that.23:54
avbhttp://live.gnome.org/ProjectRidley23:54
avbhttp://live.gnome.org/LibgnomeMustDie23:54
giacohello23:58
giacohow can I use the debug symbols I've downloaded from the mesa-swx11-dbg package now located in /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libGL.so.1.5.07020023:59
giaco? please23:59
slangasekthey're used automatically by gdb.23:59
azeemthat's a new one. Escalating from (I guess) #ubuntu to #debian and then to #ubuntu-devel23:59

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