[00:00] <ScottK> I would appreciate it if someone with Qt skillz would look at scribus-ng and make it build (with libboost-python1.35-dev although I'm pretty sure that's not the problem).
[00:02] <ScottK> http://pastebin.com/m5a01980d
[00:02] <ScottK> rgreening: ^^^
[00:02] <ScottK> Can you look at that?
[00:18] <rgreening> ScottK: sure. I'll see what I can do
[00:21] <ScottK> rgreening: Thanks.
[00:26] <rgreening> np
[00:30] <rgreening> o/ rickspencer3
[00:30]  * rickspencer3 wave
[00:30] <rgreening> the build system is being sooooo slow. KDE still building.
[00:31] <rickspencer3> with UIF tomorrow, I bet a lot of stuff in the queue
[00:31] <rgreening> i386 has almost 400 packages
[00:31] <DaSkreech> o/ rickspencer3
[00:31] <rgreening> this is hurting us :(
[00:32] <rgreening> oh well...
[00:32] <DaSkreech> Yeah I've seen three people jump in the chan to install KDE 4.2
[00:32] <DaSkreech> rgreening: This isn't on backports right? It's experimental?
[00:32] <DaSkreech> They are probably going to end up with some zombie parts of 4.2.0 and 4.2.1
[00:33] <rgreening> Jaunty = main, Intrepid = ~kubuntu-experimental
[00:33] <DaSkreech> How goes rickspencer3?
[00:33] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[00:33] <rickspencer3> things are good
[00:33] <rgreening> good news is , kde 4.2.0 + 4.2.1 shouldn't mean breakage
[00:33] <DaSkreech> So for luckily no one is jumping to Jaunty just to try out KDE 4.2
[00:33] <rgreening> bugfixes, so incremental...
[00:33] <DaSkreech> Though we have been asked that a lot >_>
[00:34] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: Good
[00:34] <rickspencer3> had lunch with some old friends today, and had a lap to myself at the pool, so basically, a good afternoon :)
[00:34] <rickspencer3> still using Kubuntu (day 3 now)
[00:35] <DaSkreech> rgreening: tamasrepus: Patiently waiting for the latest ! KDE 4.2.1 packages to filter into ! Ubuntu # Jaunty
[00:35] <DaSkreech> :-D
[00:36] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: Questions? Thoughts ?
[00:36] <rickspencer3> not really
[00:36] <rickspencer3> it didn't take me long to learn
[00:36] <DaSkreech> \o/
[00:37] <rickspencer3> I guess I would need to learn pyqt to really consider myself a user of the platform though
[00:37] <DaSkreech> 4.1 or 4.2 btw ?
[00:37] <rickspencer3> I installed alpha 5, so I think that was 4.1?
[00:38] <rgreening> rickspencer3: I think 4.2
[00:38] <DaSkreech> Ah right Jaunty No jaunty is pure 4.2
[00:38] <rickspencer3> cool
[00:38] <rickspencer3> then 4.2
[00:38] <DaSkreech> Just like Koala will be pure 4.3
[00:38] <rgreening> rickspencer3: pyqt is real easy to program in
[00:39] <rgreening> and there are some great books
[00:39] <rickspencer3> I can chuck pygtk around pretty good, but I don't consider myself to really know a platform until I can create a basic native app in it
[00:40] <rickspencer3> I guess for most users, that's not really an issue
[00:40]  * DaSkreech ponders what a basic app entails
[00:40] <rgreening> rickspencer3: qt-creator or kdevelop or qt-designer are all our friends in KDE land.
[00:40] <DaSkreech> Pretty sure we can pull up some stuff that's a hole in KDE land
[00:40] <rgreening> and make it sooooo easy
[00:41] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:41] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: You could be publishing stuff to KDE SVN ;-)
[00:41] <rickspencer3> I have enoguh to do!
[00:41]  * ScottK has never actually written anything that has a U/I.
[00:41] <rickspencer3> svn, not bzr?!?
[00:41] <rickspencer3> hehe
[00:41]  * rickspencer3 ducks
[00:41] <DaSkreech> Well a service manager I think woudl be simple enough
[00:41] <ScottK> rickspencer3: bzr is basically unheard of outside LP/Ubuntu.
[00:41] <DaSkreech> Quakks
[00:41] <rgreening> ScottK: ever write anything which acked for input?
[00:41] <rgreening> asked even
[00:41] <ScottK> rgreening: Nope.  It's all serverish stuff.
[00:41] <rgreening> thats a UI, just not a G-UI
[00:41] <rgreening> :)
[00:42] <ScottK> Actually I take that back.
[00:42] <rgreening> he
[00:42] <rgreening> heh
[00:42] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: Ha ha Don't worry distributed revision is in the crosshairs
[00:42] <ScottK> I did write a web thingy once that dit.
[00:42] <ScottK> dit/did
[00:42] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: Too high a target to aim at?
[00:43] <rickspencer3> DaSkreech: I just don't see myself having the time to write and then maintain an app right now
[00:43] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: Well work with the Kubuntu team :)
[00:43] <rickspencer3> not to mention learning all the KDE tools
[00:43] <rickspencer3> maybe, let me think about it
[00:43] <DaSkreech> They work with upstream so it would be a flow from here to upstream
[00:43] <rickspencer3> I have a programming project right now that is taking up a lot of my free time (though it is very work related)
[00:44] <DaSkreech> as long as it's not upstart specific (no issues having support) it would start being picked up by all distros
[00:44] <DaSkreech> Having upstart support would actuallly be sweet
[00:44] <DaSkreech> people are still kinda confused as to how upstart makes a difference
[00:44]  * ScottK is currently downloading the vegastrike svn logs hoping to find that magic commit message that say "Make it work with boost1.35"
[00:45] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: Free time? Never heard of it!
[00:45] <rickspencer3> lol
[00:45] <shtylman> is 4.2.1 build for jaunty yet?
[00:45] <ScottK> Building
[00:45] <DaSkreech> shtylman: Kindaish
[00:45] <shtylman> heh, nice
[00:45] <DaSkreech> depends on which package you are talking about :)
[00:46] <DaSkreech> rgreening: I forget wat's in kubuntu-memebers-kde4 ?
[00:48] <rgreening> not been used recently... dunn
[00:48] <rgreening> dunno
[00:50] <DaSkreech> bah I'll disable
[00:50] <DaSkreech> Think it was KDE 4.1 when that came out
[00:51] <DaSkreech> seele: ha implicit save
[00:58] <smarter> one day, all our PPAs will collapse on themselves and crush the world, and we still won't know what they were for.
[00:58]  * smarter shouldn't write stuff at 2AM
[01:03] <rickspencer3> I see lots of KDE change mails in my change mail folder
[01:03] <rickspencer3> busy day here, huh?
[01:07] <rgreening> we're hardly ever idle here. I wish  I had 10 hands to do all the work I need to.
[01:07] <rgreening> or would like to.
[01:08] <rgreening> OMG over 300 email since 2 hours ago.
[01:08] <rgreening> wth
[01:09] <rgreening> translation templates.. 300 emails about that
[01:09] <rgreening> omg. that's insane
[01:09] <DaSkreech> rgreening: If you are responding to rickspencer3 he left
[01:09] <rgreening> cat /dev/null > mail
[01:10] <rgreening> DaSkreech: nah, just chatting out loud
[01:20] <seele> DaSkreech: huh?
[01:20] <rgreening> scott_ev: ping
[01:21] <rgreening> sry, meant ScottK
[01:21] <DaSkreech> seele: I clicked on a repo in adept's software-properties-kde and it crashed When I opened it the repo I had clicked off was off
[01:21] <DaSkreech> implicit save :)
[01:21] <DaSkreech> Which I guess was inherited from the gnome tool
[01:22] <DaSkreech> It was a little strange
[01:22] <seele> yeah, by design or by accident, heh
[01:22] <DaSkreech> I guess if it was pervasive I'd be used to it
[01:23] <DaSkreech> Just not sure how much I like clicking something accidently or something and having it applied instantly
[01:23] <DaSkreech> Thinking about it more it does work well for Gnome since they have very very stripped options
[01:23] <DaSkreech> Even the compiz effects in ubuntu are off on on&&pretty --very
[01:24] <DaSkreech> Where as there are quite a few  fiddly bits in the default KDE compositing layout
[01:25] <DaSkreech> so KDE naturally falls into a way of showing you what your choice looks like before you apply it since it may have consequences that you (and KDE) don't anticipate
[01:26] <DaSkreech> whereas I would guess Gnome's main way of thinking is we know exactly what happens when you click this
[01:27] <DaSkreech> Bah Now I'm thinking about usabilty psychology
[01:28] <DaSkreech> seele: drat you and your efficient promo regime!
[01:28]  * seele is confused
[01:30] <ScottK> rgreening: There's a bug about the translation notifications you can whine in.
[01:30] <ScottK> rgreening: Pong
[01:31] <DaSkreech> seele: :-)
[01:31]  * DaSkreech hugs seele and wanders off for some hot malt
[01:31] <rgreening> ScottK: I set a filter > /dev/null :) taken care of
[01:31] <rgreening> ScottK: debian has a newer scribus-ng 20090209
[01:31] <ScottK> It's more fun to beat on the LP devs in the meantime.
[01:32] <rgreening> Im going to test that one
[01:32] <scott_ev> rgreening: yes
[01:32] <ScottK> rgreening: Excellent.
[01:32] <rgreening> np
[01:32] <scott_ev> rgreening: sorry, was afk
[01:33] <rgreening> scott_ev: I keep pinging you, cause my tab completion autocompletes to your name rather than scottk :) sry
[01:33] <scott_ev> all good
[01:33] <scott_ev> I do that sometimes too
[01:34] <scott_ev> well, I'm here is you decide I can help in some way
[01:34] <rgreening> 1/10 times I fail to catch the tab complete error :)
[01:34] <scott_ev> hehe
[01:35] <rgreening> ScottK: Quassel needs more intelligent <tab> completion.
[01:35] <ScottK> rgreening: Already in Git for 0.5.
[01:35] <scott_ev> funny
[01:35] <rgreening> cool
[01:36] <ScottK> That and the multi-line paste protection are the two things I still miss from Konversation.
[01:37] <ScottK> I love kdesvn.
[01:37] <ScottK> This commit message from the vegastrike svn "compat with the new boost python 1.35"
[01:37] <ScottK> I can haz patch.
[01:39] <DaSkreech> rgreening: What client?
[01:39] <DaSkreech> Oh Quassel :)
[01:39] <rgreening> konsole click'n'highlight seems to have changed. It now delineates words on '-', so I used to be able to doubleclick a file name and now it only selects a portion or the whole line if I triple click. ANNOYING.
[01:40] <rgreening> ScottK: ^ any idea if that's configuarble somewhere?
[01:40] <DaSkreech> Yeah I like konversation's listing of people sorted by the last time they spoke in the chan
[01:40] <DaSkreech> Makes tab completion very very easy
[01:40] <DaSkreech> As long as you aren't in #kde
[01:41] <ScottK> rgreening: It is, but I can't remember where.
[01:41]  * vorian huggles his irssi
[01:41] <rgreening> well, the default changed somewhere along the way, and its really ticking me off.
[01:41] <rgreening> ScottK: would it be a bash thing or Konsole thing?
[01:42] <ScottK> I'll go with Konsole.
[01:43] <rgreening> ScottK: found it...
[01:43] <rgreening> konsole...
[01:43] <ScottK> Maybe something we need to set in k-d-s?
[01:44] <rgreening> prob
[01:45] <rgreening> ah, thats much better...
[01:45] <rgreening> stupid changing settings...
[01:46] <rgreening> ScottK: new scribus builds with boost 1.34...
[01:46] <rgreening> so next to change it to 1.35
[01:46] <ScottK> Perfect
[01:48] <ScottK> rgreening: Since the entire point of scribus-ng is to have the latest crack, I think by definition it's OK to update.
[01:48] <rgreening> hehe
[02:15]  * ScottK just had another FTBFS due to no arts ....
[02:18] <ScottK> The list of packages that build-dep on kdelibs, but not cdbs probably need checked.
[02:18] <ScottK> a|wen: ^^^
[02:29] <DreadKnight> for some reason i don't have sound in firefox / flash videoes recently
[02:29] <DreadKnight> :\
[02:32] <DaSkreech> Are we planninga human changelog for Kubuntu Jackalope ?
[02:33] <DreadKnight> flash totally sucks for me.. hangs up ... stops playing .. .no sound T_T
[02:36] <ScottK> DaSkreech: I think we just do release notes.
[02:36] <ScottK> If you think we ought to have something more extensive, I'd say go for it.
[02:36] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Should we look into doing a human changelog?
[02:36] <DaSkreech> I'll try start something
[02:37]  * ScottK doesn't even know what that means exactly.
[02:37] <rgreening> ScottK: scribus-ng built successfully
[02:38] <ScottK> rgreening: Excellent.  Make a merge bug and shove a debdiff into it an I'll sponsor it.
[02:38] <rgreening> ok
[02:38] <DaSkreech> ScottK:  http://www.fsckin.com/2008/03/28/ubuntu-hardy-heron-804-release-notes-rewritten-in-plain-english/
[02:40] <ScottK> DaSkreech: I think that'd be great.  I know I'm totally unqualified to write it.
[02:40] <DreadKnight> DaSkreech: change log from hardy to jaunty?
[02:42] <DaSkreech> DreadKnight: Not sure that's needed
[02:43] <DaSkreech> changelog from hardy to loping leopard should be interesting
[02:43] <DreadKnight> yeah
[02:44] <DreadKnight> it will probably be lion, because mapple used leopard..
[02:44] <DaSkreech> lemming
[02:45] <DaSkreech> most likely going to go with something like ladybird or lamb
[02:46] <jjesse_> how about leaping lizard
[02:46] <DaSkreech> Yeah that goes in the Hungry Hippo bin
[02:47] <DaSkreech> as long as it's not lamprey or leech or lightningbug we should be ok I think :)
[02:48] <DaSkreech> Unless he ups the take on mac line to the next level and names it Liger
[02:48] <etank> ok im really confused
[02:49] <DaSkreech> etank: hi I'm really Roger
[02:49] <etank> nice to meet you DaSkreech ;)
[02:49] <DaSkreech> :-)
[02:55] <DaSkreech> DreadKnight: but I think the KDE 4.2 official Kubuntu release should have a human changelog to it
[03:02] <JontheEchidna> 141 emails....
[03:03] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: rgreening wins :)
[03:03] <rgreening> scottk: bug 338073
[03:03] <JontheEchidna> I got like 50 emails earlier. I guess he still wins though :P
[03:03] <rgreening> I had over 300 JontheEchidna
[03:03] <ScottK> rgreening: Looking.
[03:03] <JontheEchidna> I have 200 - 225ish (I deleted a bunch already)
[03:03] <ScottK> Please go whine in the bug.
[03:06] <ScottK> rgreening: What I need in the bug is a debdiff from the Debian version.
[03:06] <rgreening> It is
[03:06] <ScottK> Which I see now you put there
[03:06] <rgreening> lol
[03:06] <ScottK> nevermind
[03:09] <JontheEchidna> Whoa, I picked up 1000 karma points for translations
[03:09] <jjesse_> yay
[03:09] <JontheEchidna> Actually, that a bug :P
[03:09] <jjesse_> did y ou trade them in for something good?
[03:09] <JontheEchidna> haha
[03:10] <ScottK> My poor laptop.
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> The number is still dwarfed by my 56006 bug management karma poitns :D
[03:10] <jjesse_> JontheEchidna do you get sicfk of marking the nepomuk bug as duplicate?
[03:10]  * ScottK has 3 pbuilds going and one debuild -S -sa
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> jjesse_: I have the bug number memorized
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> bug 317271
[03:11] <JontheEchidna> which is somewhat sad on many levels
[03:12] <dtchen_> it's not sad until you memorise the launchpadlibrarian urls to dget older dscs that don't exhibit said bugs, or until you memorise git changesets down to the particular bisect preventing a bug
[03:12] <JontheEchidna> I concur. That is sad. :P
[03:13] <JontheEchidna> I have git bisected wine before for regression testing. That's a pain.
[03:13] <jjesse_> i have no idea what you have all just said
[03:13] <JontheEchidna> heh
[03:13] <JontheEchidna> git allows you to apply/unapply changes, then rebuild
[03:14] <JontheEchidna> it narrows down commits until you find the buggy commit
[03:14] <rgreening> I've had my share of git bisects in mesa
[03:14] <rgreening> not pretty
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> I think Kubuntu 9.04 is turning out pretty good. :)
[03:20] <rgreening> It's not bad at all.
[03:21] <rgreening> I still wish we have more people/time to polish things.
[03:22] <jjesse_> i just need to get my ass together and work on documentation and all of that stuff
[03:22] <JontheEchidna> Has anybody tried translations since the langpacks were updated to 9.04?
[03:22] <JontheEchidna> If all the importation success emails mean anything, then they should be pretty good
[03:23] <JontheEchidna> or at least better than what we released with intrepid ;-)
[03:23] <JontheEchidna> I think the main gripes with 8.10 were: crappy translations, poor search capabilities in Adept (otherwise it was great imo), and knetworkmanager sucking
[03:24] <JontheEchidna> I remember people moaning in multiple of my blog posts that we should adopt KPackageKit
[03:24] <JontheEchidna> they'd better be happy :P
[03:24] <rgreening> no, they still will moan at something we missed :)
[03:25] <rgreening> ScottK: hows the scribus-ng looking
[03:25] <JontheEchidna> Oh, they also moaned that 8.10 was "unstable" but I never found anybody who could give me anything more general than that, and certainly not anything to make me think it was crashes caused by errors on our end
[03:26] <ScottK> rgreening: pbuildering away on my poor overloaded laptop.
[03:26] <rgreening> I still get some random plasma freezes up
[03:26] <rgreening> ScottK: cool. diff looked ok
[03:26] <ScottK> Yep
[03:26] <rgreening> xcellent
[03:28] <JontheEchidna> People will always find something to moan about. They will then proceed to find people moaning about other things (may or may not be related) and come to the conclusions that in some broad manner, $DISTRO sucks
[03:29] <rgreening> I'd like to institute a rule: if you make a complaint, you must help fix the issue.
[03:29] <DaSkreech> jjesse_: Do you think that a human changelog is a good idea?
[03:29] <etank> rgreening: that would either stop complaints or get the issues fixed faster for sure
[03:29] <rgreening> :)
[03:29] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: People ask why we are adopting kpackagekit
[03:30] <JontheEchidna> DaSkreech: lol
[03:30] <DaSkreech> Granted the overwhelming number just want something that's not adept
[03:30] <rgreening> cause adept sucks, is not goingt o be maintained, etc.
[03:30] <JontheEchidna> It's un-maintainance was sorta caused by the move to kpk though....
[03:30] <rgreening> theres always aptitude :)
[03:30] <DaSkreech> Yes I know
[03:30] <JontheEchidna> and aside from search sucking I think Adept was great
[03:31] <DaSkreech> I loved adept :(
[03:31] <rgreening> no, it was bad
[03:31] <DaSkreech> I wants debtags
[03:31] <etank> wait ... you mean there is a gui for installing packages in ubuntu??? :)
[03:31] <JontheEchidna> It is nice and fast and stable, unlike adept 2.0
[03:31] <etank> aptitude ftw
[03:32] <rgreening> anyone watch "Life on Mars"?
[03:33] <JontheEchidna> Oh, also my "crash-on-boot-with-any-kernel-newer-than-the-last-one-from-hardy" bug got fixed today, so I'm stoked
[03:33] <JontheEchidna> I should just make a disjointed, rambling attempt at a blog today, heh.
[03:35] <a|wen> ScottK: which one did FTBFS this time due to no arts?
[03:36] <ScottK> a|wen: regina-normal.  I fixed the configure and it still FTBFS due to a test failure
[03:36] <ScottK> I suspect it's the new python
[03:37] <a|wen> okay ... you build it locally?
[03:37] <ScottK> Yes and it died.
[03:38] <ScottK> The very helpful error message was Running trigeneral.test ... TEST FAILED
[03:39] <a|wen> oh, yeah that is not very specific
[03:40] <ScottK> a|wen: Here's my debdiff if you want to fiddle with it (I won't have more time for it tonight) http://pastebin.com/f1a9c0eba
[03:42] <a|wen> okay, i might take a look at it a little later
[03:45] <JontheEchidna> Once 9.04 is out the door I think I will make a python plasmoid to fill the time until the archive reopens
[04:58] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: There will be plenty of SRU to do in the meantime.
[06:16] <DaSkreech> Argh
[06:16] <DaSkreech> 4.2.1 is crashy
[06:17] <Tm_T> DaSkreech: -dbg packages installed?
[06:17] <DaSkreech> for kde-network
[06:17] <DaSkreech> Should I remove them?
[06:17] <Tm_T> no, -dbg packages are good, can you provide traces?
[06:18] <DaSkreech> I guess let me see
[06:18] <DaSkreech> Konqueror is part of base right? not network?
[06:19] <Tm_T> yes
[06:19] <DaSkreech> ok I'll have to install that -dbg
[06:19] <DaSkreech> It's easy  to replicate for me though
[06:19] <DaSkreech> open konqueror window
[06:19] <DaSkreech> crash
[06:20] <Tm_T> :-P
[06:21] <DaSkreech> hmm fair amount of kdebase-*-dbg packages which one is konqueror in ?
[06:22] <Tm_T> kdebase-dbg ?
[06:24] <DaSkreech> dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `acl' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed.
[06:24] <DaSkreech> I get that quite often now
[06:31] <DaSkreech> konqueror(28257) KServiceFactory::findServiceByDesktopPath: "findServiceByDesktopPath: searchproviders/.desktop not found"
[06:31] <DaSkreech> KCrash: Application 'konqueror' crashing...
[06:31] <DaSkreech> sock_file=/home/skreech/.kde/socket-Released/kdeinit4__0
[06:31] <DaSkreech> Without gdb
[06:32] <DaSkreech> seems to betied to KHTML
[06:38] <DaSkreech> Tm_T: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com:80/126583/ with gdb
[07:28] <markey> yay, just got KDE 4.2.1 updates :)
[07:28] <markey> kubuntu ftw
[07:28] <Tm_T> brrrrh
[07:37] <Tonio_> hi guys
[07:58] <Mamarok> just FYI, still got that error on install with kde-icons-oxygen package (running a 64-bit)
[07:58] <Mamarok> have to override it manually, same issue since 4.1 times
[07:59]  * Mamarok wonders if nobody else reported this problem...
[07:59] <markey> thanks for 4.2.1 update
[07:59] <markey> works great :)
[08:10] <Tonio_> Mamarok: what's the error message exactly ?
[08:10] <Tonio_> Mamarok: file conflict between 2 packages ?
[08:11] <Mamarok> Tonio_: yes, allways the same, can't install because it tries to write into an existing directory
[08:11] <Mamarok> but --force-overwrite does the trick
[08:11] <Tonio_> Mamarok: which directory/file ?
[08:12] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I can fix, but you should have a conflicting package which isn't installed for me...
[08:12] <Tonio_> I need either the file/dirctory or the package name conflicting with it
[08:12] <Mamarok> seems to be koffice-data-kde4
[08:12] <Tonio_> Mamarok: and which other one ?
[08:12] <Tonio_> krita-data ?
[08:13] <Mamarok> Tonio_: see above, kde-icons-oxygen
[08:13] <Tonio_> hum oki
[08:13] <Tonio_> Mamarok: running jaunty ?
[08:13] <Mamarok> nope, Intrepid
[08:13] <Tonio_> I guess no since I fixed that one for jaunty :)
[08:13] <Tonio_> Mamarok: okay, that explains...
[08:13] <Tonio_> Mamarok: well it's fixed in jaunty
[08:13] <Mamarok> ok, will see then
[08:14]  * Mamarok ponders upgrading to Jaunty since quite some time
[08:14] <Mamarok> no more X problems?
[08:14] <Tonio_> Mamarok: kde4.2 maintainance in intrepid isn't as good as in jaunty since backporting fixes takes a lot of time, so we don't do for minor fixes, unfortunatelly
[08:14] <Tonio_> Mamarok: depends on your driver, but seems to work nicelly here
[08:15] <Mamarok> hm, I still can build Intrepid packages in Jaunty with chroot, can I?
[09:35] <Lure> anybody knows why kdeplasma-addons-data is 4.2.1, while kdeplasma-addons is only 4.2.0
[09:35]  * Lure needs his notes widget back ;-)
[09:41] <jussi01> that was a short visit by the sabdfl... :D
[10:40] <Nightrose> any reason there is no news about 4.2.1 on kubuntu.org?
[10:42] <smarter> Nightrose: ninjas felt asleep uploading it? (:
[10:42] <Nightrose> smarter: haha
[10:42] <Nightrose> smarter: is it save to install on intrepid?
[10:42] <Nightrose> i can deal with file conflicts
[10:42] <smarter> not sure
[10:42] <Nightrose> but would rather not have a b0rked system
[10:43] <smarter> I've upgrade my EEE last night and it worked quiet well today :)
[10:43] <smarter> but all was not up at that time
[10:43] <Nightrose> hehe
[10:43] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: ^
[10:58] <a|wen> Nightrose: i upgraded without a single file conflict ... and works quite well
[10:59] <Nightrose> thanks a|wen :)
[10:59] <a|wen> is kde4.2.1 officially released from the kde team?
[11:00] <Nightrose> yes
[11:04] <a|wen> oh, then we need to get some news on kubuntu.org
[11:05]  * a|wen just lost all keyboard input in his session ... logging out and in solved it
[11:05] <smarter> a|wen: that happens since I upgraded to jaunty
[11:05] <a|wen> does hope that doesn't happen again
[11:05] <smarter> usually after a few minutes it works again
[11:05] <a|wen> smarter: i'm on intrepid
[11:05] <smarter> the joy of Xorg :p
[11:05] <a|wen> yeah, probably xorg is to blame
[11:06] <a|wen> next time i'll try to wait 5 mins
[11:07] <smarter> sometimes the alt key get "stuck" too
[11:07] <Nightrose> happenes here sometimes as well
[11:09] <a|wen> i'm only victim to the alt-key problem when logged in via remote desktop to a windows pc
[11:16] <cortex_sk> a|wen:  no you're not
[11:18] <a|wen> let's hope it gets fixed ... sounds like the problem is greatest in jaunty
[11:18] <ScottK> Tonio_: Whatever you fixed in Jaunty that's not fixed in Intrepid, please upload a fix for Intrepid too.
[11:19] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know it won't be fixed....
[11:19] <Tonio_> ScottK: but I have no time for this
[11:19] <Tonio_> ScottK: and the process is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long that I don't want to waste my time on this
[11:19] <markey> anyone know when Qt 4.5 final is estimated to hit a repo?
[11:19] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know that's a bit rude....
[11:19] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think it's rather unfair to the people who are maintaining the Intrepid stuff that you just complain it's not well maintained and then refuse to help.
[11:19] <markey> I'm eager to test it with amarok 2, as we have some bug reports against it
[11:20] <ScottK> markey: Yesterday.
[11:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: but as you know it I consider we shouldn't provide kde backports for the current stable release
[11:20] <markey> really? oh
[11:20] <markey> ScottK: can you tell me the repo, please?
[11:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's my free time, I do whatever I want
[11:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: let canonical engage me and I'll do it :)
[11:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: IMHO backporting kde4.2 to intrepid is a waste of time
[11:21] <Tonio_> ScottK: since it dupes the effort and so on...
[11:21] <ScottK> Tonio_: It's already done.  Can you at least give me the specifics?
[11:21] <Nightrose> Tonio_: you'd make me very unhappy with that ;-)
[11:21] <markey> fwiw, 4.2.1 works great here on 8.10
[11:21] <Nightrose> like very
[11:21] <markey> very happy with the update
[11:21] <Nightrose> <- would sob all day
[11:21] <markey> ScottK: so, what's the repo for Qt 4.5, please?
[11:22] <Tonio_> ScottK: yup lemme check the source package for changes...
[11:22] <a|wen> markey: it is in jaunty/main
[11:22] <Tonio_> ScottK: don't get me wrong, but I consider whatever I do, that's never "unfair" as long as it's on my free time :)
[11:22] <markey> well I am on 8.10, is there a backport available?
[11:22] <a|wen> markey: no ;)
[11:22] <markey> is it planned, then?
[11:23] <markey> at least in some PPA
[11:23] <a|wen> afaik it's not
[11:23] <markey> I need the thign :)
[11:23] <ScottK> Tonio_: The part that really annoys me is you also then making negative remarks about the quality of the maintenance in Intrepid.  I take it personally.
[11:23]  * markey bets someone will offer it, just a question of time
[11:23] <ScottK> Probably no one here.
[11:23] <markey> you'd do us amarok devs a big favour
[11:23] <Tonio_> ScottK: you got me wrong then
[11:24] <ScottK> Tonio_: That's how it sounded.
[11:24] <a|wen> markey: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11 ... download it and upload it to intrepid in your PPA; if you are lucky it compiles ;)
[11:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: I said that if we want the same QA for 4.2 in intrepid than for jaunty
[11:24] <Tonio_> then we need to backport EVERY fix
[11:24] <markey> I was hoping for a bit more ;)
[11:24] <Tonio_> and due to the hudge process of SRU, that's just impossible
[11:24] <Tonio_> therefore I consider we should only bugfix the intrepid version of kde
[11:24] <markey> you want a stable amarok in kubuntu, right?
[11:25] <Tonio_> and as our users to wait for the next one
[11:25] <markey> that calls for a bit of cooperation
[11:25] <Tonio_> since because of the SRU process, there is no way to provide a good fixing cycle for the stable release
[11:25] <ScottK> Tonio_: Backports has no huge SRU process.  That's totall BS.
[11:25] <Nightrose> Tonio_: I know a few people who would leave kubuntu then :/
[11:25] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's not because of you, but because of the process
[11:25] <Tonio_> ScottK: QA is
[11:25] <Tonio_> ScottK: and as we don't have a decent QA process...
[11:26] <Tonio_> ScottK: well that's my personnal opinion, I don't complain about that every day
[11:26] <ScottK> Tonio_: For backports you need approval from an ubuntu-backporter.  That's it.
[11:26] <a|wen> markey: i can try to shuffle it in my PPA and see if it compiles ... might do, might not
[11:26]  * ScottK is one, so if something needs backporting the bureacracy is "Ask Scott".
[11:26] <Tonio_> I consider working on SRU, for *me*, useless, and don't to it... everyone is free to backport my changes, no pb
[11:26] <Tonio_> but I won't do it
[11:26] <ScottK> Tonio_: SRU != Backports.
[11:26] <Tonio_> and that's absolutly not against you, or the quality of your work
[11:26] <markey> a|wen: that would great, I'd be thankful :)
[11:27] <markey> would be*
[11:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: right, sorry I was talking about backports then
[11:27] <a|wen> markey: let's see if the thing compiles first :P
[11:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: 4.2 backportig to intrepid
[11:27] <ScottK> No SRU there
[11:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: my fix is for koffice, which shouldn't even be packaged fir intrepid
[11:28] <Tonio_> ScottK: sorry if I wasn't clear
[11:28] <ScottK> Well it's a little late for not putting it in Intrepid.
[11:28] <Tonio_> ScottK: but don't consider whatever I say against you, that's not my point, really
[11:29] <Tonio_> ScottK: so I wasn't talking about SRU, but about backports :)
[11:29] <Tonio_> ScottK: with a 6 month release schedule, the small team, and the lack of decent QA process, we shouldn't backport kde/koffice and so on
[11:29] <ScottK> It sounds like there is a problem in Intrepid because you've declined to fix it.  That's you're right, but I don't think you should then give armwaving about lower quality packages in backports.
[11:30] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'm happy to see people doing this, but I won't :)
[11:30] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum... how many uploads for kdelibs 4.2 in intrepid ?
[11:30] <ScottK> I think the backports are critical to getting enough people using the new release to get enough bugs upstream to get stuff fixed for us before release.
[11:30] <Tonio_> ScottK and how many uploads for jaunty ?
[11:31] <ScottK> I think two, but one collected a lot of the fixes from several Jaunty uploads.
[11:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: are you sure every fix is backported ? no
[11:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: so that's lower quality
[11:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: not because of you
[11:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: because of small team and lack of time
[11:32] <Tonio_> and probably because too short release schedule, that make people like me focussing on stable+1
[11:32] <Tonio_> ScottK: this isn't a criticism, just my objective feeling, and since I respect you, I don't want to lie
[11:32] <ScottK> I agree we can't afford to backport every fix, but the ones that have to do with basic package installability, I think we need to do those.
[11:32] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's absolutly not personal (how could it be ^^)
[11:33] <ScottK> OK
[11:33] <Tonio_> ScottK: I have seen people testing 4.2 on intrepid
[11:33] <ScottK> I'm running 4.2 on Intrepid.
[11:33] <Tonio_> ScottK: the bugs they had, the problems they had
[11:33] <Tonio_> ScottK: that I never had on jaunty, and that will be fixed *before* people use it
[11:33] <ScottK> When I installed it, I had some installability issues, but they are all fixed now.
[11:33]  * Nightrose uses 4.2 on intrepid as well
[11:33] <Nightrose> works ok
[11:34] <ScottK> BTW, many of those same bugs existed unreported in the Jaunty packages.
[11:34] <Tonio_> ScottK: but people used to install it and saw those issues
[11:34] <Tonio_> ScottK: they won't with jaunty cause it'll be fixed before they see it
[11:34] <ScottK> So I can tell you based just on me using the Intrepid backport, the Jaunty packages got better.
[11:34] <Nightrose> the only thing you accieve with not backporting to stable is making people switch to another distro or to a very early unstable
[11:34] <ScottK> Tonio_: The problems hadn't even been reported.
[11:34] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's probably true too, indeed, good point
[11:35] <ScottK> And that's the value of the backport for Jaunty is we find out stuff we wouldn't otherwise get until too late.
[11:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: well, that's something I'd live to discuss with you, with a good beer
[11:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: just a matter of opinion btw
[11:35] <ScottK> I wouldn't recommend everyone run the backport.  I did not put it on my kid's computer.
[11:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: but they do, cause they consider it "official"
[11:35] <ScottK> But I think it has a lot of value to making Kubuntu and KDE better.
[11:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: Or, we should communicate that those may contain bugs, blabla, in the release comment
[11:36] <ScottK> It is 'officia', but 'unsupported'.
[11:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: and then I'm all with you
[11:36] <ScottK> officia/official.
[11:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: people don't know that
[11:36] <ScottK> Tonio_: I agree we could do better about communicating the risks associated with these packages.
[11:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's what I mean.... they install it, experience problems, and report "Kubuntu sucks and kde 4.2 is shit"
[11:37] <ScottK> Tonio_: In Adept, backports is called "Unsupported Updates", so if they don't know it, they don't read and that's not my problem.
[11:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's what I eard at work... not my point I love kde/kubuntu, but that's the feedback I got
[11:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's fine.... most people don't use adept btw :)
[11:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: since it is soooooooooooo bad :)
[11:38] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's about the release announcement
[11:38] <ScottK> Alternatively people could upgrade to Jaunty to get 4.2 and then weeks later find their system FUBAR due to the Python transition
[11:38] <ScottK> I agree the release announcements could be better.
[11:38] <Tonio_> ScottK: we should say "if you're not an experienced user that is ready to experience integration problems, you should consider keep your kde version and wait for the next kubuntu version"
[11:38] <Tonio_> ScottK: print out this, and I'm all with you
[11:38] <ScottK> I think for most users who really want the latest KDE the backports are safer than the development release.
[11:39] <ScottK> Tonio_: I'm good with something like that.
[11:39] <Tonio_> ScottK: unless this happens, I'll consider the backports a trully respectable effort, but with bad consequences
[11:39] <ScottK> You'll get no objection from me.
[11:39] <Tonio_> ScottK: great then :)
[11:39] <Tonio_> ScottK: but to switch back to the default
[11:40] <ScottK> I don't think I understand what you mean by that?
[11:40] <Tonio_> ScottK: s/default/pevious point
[11:41] <ScottK> OK
[11:41] <Tonio_> ScottK: the thing is that we should also consider the point where something is fixed in jaunty
[11:41] <Tonio_> what, how, which processes leads the fix backporting, outside the willing of one person ?
[11:41] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'm working 50/55 hours a week.... my time for kubuntu is limited
[11:42] <Tonio_> I work on it at mid-day, in the evening and in the WE...
[11:42] <Nightrose> can't we have a list for such stuff so people who have the time can pick it up?
[11:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: most people are like me... when we do something in +1, what defines the limit it has to go back to the backport ? who will take care  etc...
[11:43] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think installability fixes must go back.  All else is a judgement call.
[11:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: so when I fix a fiole conflict in jaunty, I have to consider people using the backports, the kubuntu-experimental repo
[11:44] <Tonio_> where is the limit ?
[11:44] <ScottK> Personally I don't worry so much about experimental.  It's very clearly labled crack.
[11:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: for me, if the bug exists in kubuntu, so with 4.1, I have to fix it with an SRU
[11:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: if that's a 4.2 bug, no need to fix
[11:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: no judgement there, it is very clear
[11:44] <ScottK> OK.
[11:45] <Tonio_> at least, clearer for me
[11:45] <ScottK> If you fix installability stuff, would you at least let me know.
[11:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: I whish I had time to do more... but that's not possible right now...
[11:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: I did, remember kdebluetooth
[11:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'm not that rude
[11:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: just that ubuntu's going in a lot of cirections
[11:45] <ScottK> Yes, but this koffice2 related problem ....
[11:45] <ScottK> What needs to be done with that?
[11:46] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'll give you the diff, gimme a moment
[11:46] <Tonio_> ScottK: .install files to fix... gimme 10 minutes to branch bzr
[11:46] <ScottK> Thanks.
[11:47] <Tonio_> ScottK: the thing is that the very reason of ubuntu/kubuntu is :
[11:47] <Tonio_> - short dev cycle
[11:47] <Tonio_> - stable never changes
[11:47] <Tonio_> without this, we go back to debian sid
[11:47] <Tonio_> and the backporting of kde4.2 breaks this, imho, that's the very what I think
[11:47] <ScottK> Yes, but the KDE cycle is also short, so if we want to get stuff fixed between 4.x.0 and our release, we need to get the packages in people's hands.
[11:47] <Tonio_> with a 1 year dev cycle, I'll have another vision of this :)
[11:48] <Mamarok> Tonio_: well, I think it was necessary, as 8.10 was shipped with a very broken KDE 4.0 something
[11:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: going from 4.1.0 to 4.1.1 with SRU, that's fine with me
[11:48] <apachelogger> 8.10 had 4.1
[11:48] <ScottK> Mamarok: It was 4.1
[11:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: 4.1 to 4.2 is too much of a big change...
[11:48] <Mamarok> and *that* was not well communicated by anybody, so...
[11:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'd be curious to know what ubuntu does with gnome and new major releases...
[11:48] <apachelogger> Tonio_: what is the discussion about anyway?
[11:48] <ScottK> Tonio_: That's why it's not in -updates, it's in -backports.
[11:49] <Mamarok> Tonio_: the average user is not supposed to use Backports anyway
[11:49] <ScottK> Tonio_: I've used Kubuntu since Dapper and we've always had packages for the newer KDE.
[11:49] <Tonio_> ScottK: John Doe doesn't figure out and activates everything
[11:49] <Tonio_> ScottK: and then complain it doesn't work.... that's stupid, but that's the people :)
[11:49] <ScottK> Tonio_: That's John Doe's problem then.
[11:49] <ScottK> So let's just get rid of backports entirely.
[11:49] <Mamarok> ScottK: +1, but there are others who think it's our fault
[11:49] <Tonio_> apachelogger: the begining was that I fixed a bug on jaunty but didn't backport the bug to "-backports"
[11:50]  * apachelogger drinks his bloody mary
[11:50] <Mamarok> (+1 for JohnDoes fault)
[11:50] <ScottK> Tonio_: You also didn't fix it and then complained the maintenance was poor.
[11:50] <Tonio_> Mamarok: 95% of our users are john doe pepple
[11:50] <ScottK> It was the combination of the two that started this.
[11:50] <Tonio_> Mamarok: let's say we don't mind if they dislike kde, because that's their fault....
[11:51]  * apachelogger finds the discussion rather weird TBH
[11:51] <Tonio_> Mamarok: that's disrecpecfull for our users... very debianish I'd say
[11:51] <Tonio_> ScottK: yep, and that's unfair
[11:51] <Mamarok> Tonio_: nope, we should have communicated better with the 8.10 release, stating that 4.1 is *not* for JohnDoes
[11:51] <apachelogger> oh
[11:51] <apachelogger> we did
[11:51] <apachelogger> a lot
[11:51] <apachelogger> even created a wiki page just to make that clear
[11:51] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I wanted us to *discard* intrepid release
[11:51] <apachelogger> we don't even prompt for upgrade
[11:51] <Tonio_> just push isos and communicate about 4.2 and jaunty
[11:51] <Mamarok> apachelogger: well, obviously not well enough, if you read the kubuntu-users ML
[11:52] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I said that to riddell in the UDS :)
[11:52] <apachelogger> Mamarok: yeah, they do not read
[11:52] <Mamarok> Tonio_: no way, you can't do that before the support cycle is over
[11:52] <Tonio_> ScottK: once again sorry for the missunderstanding on that point
[11:52] <Tonio_> ScottK: but I have the right not to do something and complain
[11:52] <ScottK> The biggest problems I have in Intrepid are kernel problems, not KDE.
[11:52] <Tonio_> ScottK: I complain about mandriva and don't contribute there
[11:52] <Mamarok> if you don't want to loose all these JohnDoes over to Gnome
[11:53] <ScottK> Mamarok: I now a lot of people switched to KDE during Intrepid and more now.
[11:53] <ScottK> Some long term, committed Gnome users.
[11:53] <Tonio_> ScottK: and the thing is that whenever I fix that won't change anything to my opinion since the fact it is "poorly" maintained is simply due to the small team
[11:54] <Tonio_> not the people doing this (I repect your work, and you know it !)
[11:54] <Tonio_> ScottK: I just listen to users and analyze what they say
[11:54] <Mamarok> oh shit, lagging again
[11:54] <Tonio_> ScottK: we have a different feeling :)
[11:54] <ScottK> And if you'd said something like "... and is not as well maintained because some developers, like myself, just focus on the new release ..." you'd have gotten no objection.
[11:55] <Tonio_> but that's fair, no pb with that
[11:55] <Tonio_> ScottK: but also, I don't want, because some people decided to backport, to be forced to backport my fixes
[11:55] <Tonio_> ScottK: there are MLs, filters, changelogs and diffs in bzr :)
[11:56] <ScottK> Tonio_: Agreed.
[11:56] <Tonio_> ScottK: I don't blame people for backporting, but as I wouldn't do it myself, don't blame me for not contributing :)
[11:56] <Tonio_> ScottK: friends again then ?? ^^
[11:56] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think it was the word 'poorly' that got to me.
[11:56] <ScottK> It implies bad work.
[11:56] <ScottK> Yes.
[11:57] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum, maybe "poorly" sounds worse in english that in french... really I didn't want it to be that rude
[11:57] <ScottK> I can understand how it might be different.
[12:03] <Tonio_> ScottK: lemme get you the diff
[12:03] <ScottK> OK.
[12:04]  * ScottK is going to go lay down for a bit, so I'll be back.
[12:04] <Tonio_> Mamarok: when I said to riddell I thought we should discard intrepid, it was during the intrepid UDS :)
[12:04] <Tonio_> Mamarok: long before we release
[12:04] <Tonio_> Mamarok: cause we knew, already, that 4.1 wouldn't make it for john doe
[12:05] <apachelogger> on the other hand 8.10 help KDE and those us to resolve remaining issues
[12:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: http://pastebin.com/m5a8c2a52
[12:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: all removed files are already in kde-icons-oxygen
[12:13] <Tonio_> apachelogger: true that
[12:13] <Tonio_> apachelogger: as I said, we should have released isos
[12:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but announcing not everyone was supposed to update
[12:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger: same problem than the 4.0 kde annoucement
[12:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger: boog thing but bad communication
[12:14] <hunger> webshortcuts in konq stopped working with the kde 4.2.1 upgrade.
[12:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I never saif to forget about intrepid, but maybe discard the cds, and releasing isos with a clear annoucement it was not ready for everyone
[12:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger: same thing as kde should have done for 4.0, imho
[12:15] <apachelogger> IMHO 8.10 was about what ubuntu 8.10 was
[12:15] <apachelogger> pretty unusable
[12:15] <apachelogger> and I see it ubuntu is going to continue with 9.04
[12:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it was said, but not on the "official" annoucements, only on geeks board and MLs :)
[12:15] <Tonio_> apachelogger: yeah, but our case was special due to kde status
[12:16] <apachelogger> users do not know about KDE
[12:16] <Tonio_> apachelogger: what are the problems on the gnome side for jaunty ?
[12:16] <apachelogger> small annoyances all over the place
[12:16] <apachelogger> at least my gnomie friends say so
[12:17] <Tonio_> apachelogger: that's no problem in fact since there is the LTS for noobs
[12:17] <Tonio_> apachelogger: everything is a problem with the communication
[12:17] <apachelogger> TBH
[12:17] <apachelogger> communication itself is the problem
[12:17] <apachelogger> you can never communicate such stuff properly
[12:17] <apachelogger> _never_
[12:17] <Tonio_> apachelogger: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/8.10-release
[12:18] <apachelogger> not even if you make a 10 minute blinking text at installation that plays some britney spears song
[12:18] <Tonio_> apachelogger: a little mention "This is the very first KDE4 implementation for Kubuntu, so don't expect it to be perfect, and consider keeping Hardy if you're not an experienced user"
[12:18] <Tonio_> that one liner message would have help people understanding, imho
[12:19] <apachelogger> 4. If you would rather stay with what you know then remember that Kubuntu 8.04 is still fully supported, see KDE3-KDE4Migration and Is KDE 4.1 for you? for more information on deciding.
[12:20] <Tonio_> apachelogger: have you read the page "is kde 4.1 for you ?" :)
[12:21] <apachelogger> no
[12:21] <apachelogger> and I really do not care, as mostly no-one reads announcements
[12:21] <Tonio_> apachelogger: that's very different from a single note saying "Not for my aunt"
[12:22] <apachelogger> well, anyway
[12:22] <apachelogger> that is so last year
[12:22] <apachelogger> literally
[12:22] <Tonio_> apachelogger: anyway that's past, and jaunty will rock :)
[12:22] <Tonio_> apachelogger: but in case we go through something equivalent, I hope we'll remember we could have communicate better that time
[13:08] <ScottK> Tonio_: Thanks.
[13:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: you're welcome :)
[13:10] <ScottK> Tonio_: I can upload an update to the Intrepid koffice2 to backports to fix that.
[13:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: oki maybe considering backporting the latest beta no ?
[13:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: when the backport is done why not maitaining it... ^^
[13:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: it's been uploaded in jaunty yesterday
[13:12] <ScottK> Tonio_: I don't know koffice well enough to know if that's a good idea.
[13:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: koffice2 is broken, whatever :)
[13:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: a new version is always a good idea :)
[13:27] <Tm_T> Tonio_: broken?
[13:29] <Tonio_> Tm_T: doesn't work well, let's say that
[13:29] <Tonio_> Tm_T: alpha, pre-alpha, whatever :)
[13:29] <Tm_T> how it doesn't work?
[13:29] <ScottK> Tonio_: Some of the Debian guys were saying that with KDE4 they thought Koffice2 was more usable than Koffice.
[13:30] <Tonio_> Tm_T: it crashes, is unstable, doesn't import OOo odt files well etc...
[13:30] <Tonio_> ScottK: well koffice never was good enough too :)
[13:30] <ScottK> Neither play well with MS Office files so are pretty useless for me.
[13:30] <Tonio_> ScottK: even koffice devs asked us to never ship it by default.... except for krita
[13:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: but if I had to choose, I would backport it,you'll have my and other fixes in it
[13:31] <Tonio_> ScottK: and will not be worse than the current one :)
[13:31] <ScottK> Well I'd need someone to test the backport.
[13:31]  * ScottK looks for volunteers.
[13:32] <Tonio_> ScottK: I can help in backporting eventually but can't test since no intrepid here
[13:34] <ScottK> OK.  I need someone on Intrepid to test ....
[13:34] <etank> im on intrepid but using Gnome on the box
[13:35] <ScottK> I think it should be someone that actually uses Koffice2.
[13:35] <Tm_T> ScottK: test KOffice?
[13:35] <ScottK> Yes.
[13:35] <Tm_T> bring it on
[13:36] <ScottK> Tm_T: OK.  At some point today I'll try and get a test version in my PPA.
[13:36] <Tm_T> roger
[13:37] <Tonio_> Mamarok: you had the issue with koffice ? :)
[13:37] <Tonio_> Mamarok: would be test a new backport to see if it works well for you ?
[13:42] <Mamarok> Tonio_: I'm currently upgrading to Jaunty...
[13:42] <Mamarok> just a silly question: why does that dist-upgrade want to install lilo?
[13:52] <Tonio_> Mamarok: hum..... should be recommended by some new dep...
[13:52] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I usually disable the auto installation of recommended packages....
[13:55] <Quintasan> Hi
[14:00] <Quintasan> Hmm there are version conflicts with kdeplasma-addons.
[14:27] <cumulus007> Hi, my Phonon falls back every time to PulseAudio
[14:27] <cumulus007> I don't want that, because PulseAudio's sound has a lot of craks in it
[14:27] <cumulus007> I'm on jaunty alpha 5
[14:42] <DaSkreech> Morinng
[14:42] <DaSkreech> 4.2.1 is really crashy for me :(
[14:43] <DaSkreech> at least consistently so
[14:46] <rgreening> really? on Jaunty?
[14:47] <DaSkreech> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/126737
[14:47] <DaSkreech> No ibex
[14:48] <DaSkreech> That's trying to open a new window
[14:48] <ScottK> cumulus007: We don't use pulseaudio in our setup, so I'm guessing you have Ubuntu Desktop installed too?
[14:48] <DaSkreech> I'm not sure where the searchproviders/.desktop it coming from
[14:48] <cumulus007> yes, but I disabled all GNOME's stuff afaik
[14:49] <ScottK> cumulus007: Except pulse.
[14:49] <rgreening> scottk: are you sure on that? I believe pulse works and is installed now (or at least there was talks of it)
[14:49] <ScottK> rgreening: It's not seeded in kubuntu-desktop
[14:49] <rgreening> and pulse works here without crackling
[14:49] <DaSkreech> rgreening: As soon as I try to open a new window in Konquerer it takes everythign down
[14:49] <rgreening> oh, I must have installed it :)
[14:49] <cumulus007> ScottK: I disabled pulseaudio
[14:50] <DaSkreech> I'm going to try and open a new one with no khtml to see
[14:50] <rgreening> DaSkreech: can you verify all your KDE packages are 4.2.1 and doo you have Qt 4.4.3 or Qt 4.5.0?
[14:50] <ScottK> Acutally we have it on kubuntu-dvd-live.
[14:50] <DaSkreech> verify?
[14:50] <ScottK> Which seems odd.
[14:50] <rgreening> ScottK: pulse works now with Solid.
[14:51] <rgreening> and works well (IME)
[14:51] <ScottK> rgreening: I'm not aware of any problems I'm having that adding it would solve.
[14:51] <rgreening> DaSkreech: check and see if everything got updated. maybe something got stuck at 4.2.0
[14:51] <ScottK> Ubuntu has had it for two releases now and it's still problematic.
[14:51] <cumulus007> Is 4.2.1 in the repos?
[14:51] <DaSkreech> rgreening: Oh Umm I'm not sure I updated last night when I didn't see any more updates coming i
[14:52] <DaSkreech> in
[14:52] <DaSkreech> I didn't really check to see if each package got updated
[14:52] <rgreening> DaSkreech: could you try in a new user account? make sure it isn't something buggered in current.
[14:52] <DaSkreech> Yeah let me do that
[14:53] <rgreening> ScottK: I use pulse by default here. no issues thus far.
[14:55] <DaSkreech> rgreening: fun note if I run konqueror ~ it works
[14:55] <ScottK> rgreening: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/01/i-will-not-drink-koolaide.html
[14:56] <ScottK> rgreening: It may work for you, but it doesn't actually appear to provide anything I don't have already that I actually want.
[14:57] <rgreening> ScottK: true. though better integration options will be under pulse going forward. alsa is a beast and people want to make it disappear.
[14:57] <ScottK> Right, so I say leave it until it actually provides something I want.
[14:57] <rgreening> :P
[14:58] <ScottK> It'll be really great someday is no reason to add it now.
[14:58] <rgreening> hmm... I was getting fails on my hda-intel before pulse audio. pulse removed those fails
[14:59] <ScottK> OK.  My intel stuff works fine.
[14:59] <rgreening> I guess I should try removing pulse again and see what happens
[14:59] <Quintasan> anyone has version conflicts on kdeplasma-addons?
[14:59] <rgreening> ScottK: you have a lappy?
[14:59] <ScottK> Yes.  Latitude D430
[14:59] <rgreening> I was geting this mostly on suspend/hibernate + resume
[15:00] <rgreening> ScottK: Bug 338251
[15:01] <DaSkreech> rgreening: bugs in another account as well same error
[15:01] <rgreening> thats what I pointed out yesterday
[15:01] <rgreening> hmm..
[15:01] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: ping
[15:01] <ScottK> Sure enough
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: pong
[15:02] <rgreening> see bug 338251
[15:02] <rgreening> want to look at backport?
[15:02] <DaSkreech> rgreening: seems to work fine with files
[15:02]  * JontheEchidna throws it on the list on top of kdebase-workspace and kdeadmin fixes
[15:03] <DaSkreech> and doesn't look for the searchproviders/.desktop
[15:03] <DaSkreech> Also opens with the sidebar open for some reason
[15:03] <rgreening> DaSkreech: weird.
[15:03] <rgreening> DaSkreech: sounds like some kde3 foo hanging around and confusing it
[15:04] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: I can apply it and test it if you want :)
[15:04] <rgreening> DaSkreech: can you use kdebugdialog to troubleshoot
[15:04] <rgreening> Quintasan: that would be awsome
[15:04] <DaSkreech> kdebugdialog?
[15:05] <rgreening> yeah. it allows you to turn on debug channels
[15:05] <rgreening> and if you run the app from commandline, you can see the debug output.
[15:05] <DaSkreech> ah right I was just using gdb :)
[15:05] <rgreening> so, enable khtml channel for example.
[15:05] <rgreening> and see what it's doing befor ecrash
[15:06] <rgreening> DaSkreech: I think someone else in #kubuntu has similar issue. should colab with them to troubleshoot
[15:06] <rgreening> 'alarm' I think...
[15:07] <rgreening> DaSkreech: can you drop to commandline and run"sudo apt-get install -f"
[15:07] <rgreening> make sure everything was properly installed/setup
[15:07] <DaSkreech> Just tells me to get rid of mysql
[15:08] <rgreening> ok.
[15:08] <DaSkreech> ha ha
[15:08] <DaSkreech> It's the Konqueror start up page that's making it crash
[15:09] <DaSkreech> Just tried to open a URL directly and it works
[15:09] <DaSkreech> open new window and it crashes
[15:10] <DaSkreech> I set it to open new windows on a blank page and it works fine again
[15:10] <DaSkreech> I wonder what the searchproviders/.desktop is
[15:11] <DaSkreech> Oh .. sorry let me set it back to crash mode to get the backtrace :)
[15:14] <rgreening> nixternal: ^
[15:14] <rgreening> nixternal: did you or Riddell make that patch?
[15:14] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: that patch should prob be removed for Intrepid. It's a Jaunty thing.
[15:16] <DaSkreech> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/126750
[15:19] <Quintasan> rgreening: looks like the patch is already applied.
[15:22] <Quintasan> lol
[15:22] <Quintasan> http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=935236
[15:22] <Quintasan> rev 935237 accualy does word separation :D
[15:23] <Quintasan> actually*
[15:24] <DaSkreech> Quintasan: Couldn't install :(
[15:24] <Quintasan> DaSkreech: Raptor?
[15:25] <rgreening> heh, Quintasanmaybe we want a kubuntu-default-settings then to update the options for konsole, since hte behaviour has changed.
[15:25] <DaSkreech> Quintasan: yeah requires trunk Which I'm not running now :(
[15:25] <rgreening> I can confirm altering the options returns to m yprev behavious
[15:25] <rgreening> behaviour even
[15:26] <Quintasan> rgreening: The revision says: "Revert 930327.  Patch actually does word separation." so this "feature" is propably not wanted.
[15:28] <apachelogger> kubotu: order tea, earl grey, hot
[15:28]  * kubotu is replicating a hot cup of earl grey for captain apachelogger.
[15:28] <Quintasan> apachelogger: \o
[15:28] <apachelogger> Quintasan: o/
[15:32] <rgreening> apachelogger: o/
[15:32] <apachelogger> Tonio_: the kdesudo invoked by kpackagekit's edit software sources button really ought to tell me something useful instead of the app name it invokes
[15:32] <Quintasan> rgreening: I'm not supposed to add entry in changelog? :P
[15:32] <apachelogger> rgreening: hullos
[15:32] <rgreening> apachelogger: that was my patch. feel free to update if you like
[15:32] <DaSkreech> Nightrose: Groupie mode on!
[15:33]  * apachelogger doesn't feel like it :P
[15:33] <Nightrose> DaSkreech: whaaaaaaaaaaat?
[15:33] <apachelogger> rgreening: just make up some sensible description and wrap it in a i18n()ed qstring ;-)
[15:33] <DaSkreech> Nightrose: the apachelogger makes a grand appearance :)
[15:33] <apachelogger> not that anyone would translate it in launchpad anyway ;-)
[15:33] <Nightrose> weeeeeeee
[15:33] <Nightrose> apachelogger: o/
[15:34]  * apachelogger huggles the Nightrose
[15:34] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I'm always up for translating (to Polish only :P)
[15:34] <Quintasan> Nightrose: \o
[15:34] <apachelogger> Quintasan: TBH, I wouldn't even want to ask knowing how crappy the rosetta UI is
[15:35] <Quintasan> hmm
[15:36] <Quintasan> brb, my comp will propably crash
[15:37] <apachelogger> so
[15:38] <Quintasan> Hmm, I broked my pdebuild envs :<
[15:38] <apachelogger> where was that pet bug of Riddell about making konqui always restore $crashed session
[15:38] <apachelogger> I am right now in the anticipated behaviour of konqueror looping itself to crash
[15:39] <Nightrose> apachelogger: JontheEchidna was having it as well iirf
[15:39] <Nightrose> *iirc
[15:39] <ScottK> So how come my Konqueror knows how to spell Ubuntu, but not Kubuntu?
[15:40] <apachelogger> ScottK: the underlying dict stuff I assume
[15:40] <DaSkreech> apachelogger: Whee I just got Konqui to crash consistently when opening ;)
[15:40]  * ScottK too.
[15:40]  * ScottK was hoping someone would know
[15:40] <apachelogger> anyone cares to remove that stuff?
[15:40] <Quintasan> How come mine doesnt crashes?
[15:40] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Yeah it's added in the dict. Submit a new entry
[15:40] <ScottK> What package?
[15:40]  * apachelogger , being a user right now, is very annoyed
[15:41] <apachelogger> Quintasan: it's not because of the change, the change only prevents me from taking an appropriate action
[15:41] <apachelogger> it always restores the crashed session
[15:42] <apachelogger> so I was on youtube, and nspluginviewer went down taking konqueror with it, and now it alyways starts with youtube leading to the very same crash over and over again
[15:42] <Quintasan> oh shi-
[15:43] <apachelogger> ah, jonny already removed it in bzr
[15:43] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna++
[15:43] <DaSkreech> apachelogger: ummm there is an not right now button on the konqueror restore session
[15:44] <Quintasan> I didn't know Konq was so fast with flash, Opera sometimes takes 10 seconds to load the flash ...
[15:44] <apachelogger> DaSkreech: the pet bug suggested to change that to always use restore
[15:44] <apachelogger> since the dialog is pretty useless for the average user
[15:44] <apachelogger> then again an always crashing konqueror is even more ;-)
[15:45]  * ScottK often gets that dialogue just from opening a new window.
[15:45] <cumulus007> Is Konqueror already working fine with Flash on 64 bit?
[15:45] <Quintasan> cumulus007: Works for me
[15:45] <ScottK> So No almost always the right answer for me.
[15:45] <cumulus007> 50 % of the times I want to use flash, the animation doesn't load
[15:45] <cumulus007> like Youtube
[15:46] <cumulus007> I need to refresh the page several times before the clip gets started
[15:46]  * apachelogger is wondering if kdewebkit uses nspluginviewer or QtWebKit's own implementation
[15:46] <DaSkreech> apachelogger: no crash protection like plasma?
[15:46] <apachelogger> DaSkreech: plasma has a no-crash protection?
[15:47] <DaSkreech> no it has crash protection
[15:47] <apachelogger> anyway, using arora I have the feeling Qt's nsplugin stuff doesn't crash as often as KDE's
[15:47] <apachelogger> DaSkreech: how does that work?
[15:47] <DaSkreech> It checks the average of the last three times it started and shut back down
[15:48] <DaSkreech> if it aproaches some small figure it stops auto starting itself
[15:48] <DaSkreech> since it's likely that it's autostarting then crashing then autostarting
[15:48] <DaSkreech> Konqui could do the same then present the session dialog
[15:49] <DaSkreech> avg time for the last three sessions is 28 hours
[15:49] <apachelogger> well, the nsplugins (being the most likely cause of 90% of all crashes) could easily take down the system as well I suppose
[15:49] <DaSkreech> 3 hours
[15:49] <DaSkreech> 5 seconds
[15:49] <DaSkreech> ok present dialog
[15:50] <apachelogger> probably something that ought to be discussed with upstream
[15:50]  * Quintasan likes Arora
[15:50] <apachelogger> the dialog needs to become more useful anyway
[15:51] <DaSkreech> how so?
[15:51]  * DaSkreech waits for the add options to the dialog suggestion
[15:51] <apachelogger> DaSkreech: hand that dialog to a normal user and he will either go "wha?" or "I prolly best click the button with the least aggressive icon or the one that says ok" ;-)
[15:52] <DaSkreech> Which is probably the right one
[15:53] <DaSkreech> restore session
[15:53] <apachelogger> well, it is not as this is what is causing problems if the window crashed :P
[15:53] <DaSkreech> if that's not what the user wants they will notice quite quickly
[15:53] <DaSkreech> any of the other two are viable at that point
[15:53] <apachelogger> they might just walk through the options
[15:53] <apachelogger> which is not the point of a dialog
[15:54] <DaSkreech>  the only possible issue is saying dump my last session when in reality you wanted to keep it
[15:54] <apachelogger> the 10% of users that actually read should at least be able to make a sane decission
[15:54] <apachelogger> which is kinda hard with the current dialog IMHO
[15:54] <DaSkreech> and I don't think that's a likely prospect esp not more than once
[15:54] <apachelogger> bug 326803
[15:54] <DaSkreech> Are we talking about the same dialog?
[15:54] <apachelogger> can someone please beat up the triager and triage the bug properly?
[15:55] <DaSkreech> apachelogger: three buttons? one says restore session one says not now ?
[15:55] <apachelogger> what session?
[15:55] <apachelogger> and why?
[15:56] <apachelogger> and what should I be using?
[15:57] <DaSkreech> I can tell you the mindset I walked through when I first saw this in Firefox
[15:57] <DaSkreech> I'd assume it's what others do too
[15:57] <DaSkreech> IT's the same my mother does
[15:57] <DaSkreech> You are used to having multiple sessions and a manager for it
[15:57] <DaSkreech> For most people the important part isn't sessions but restore
[15:58] <apachelogger> well, why restore in the first place then?
[15:58] <DaSkreech> because it gets you back something you had before
[15:59] <DaSkreech> like restore files
[15:59] <DaSkreech> It's by far the most likely to be clicked
[15:59] <DaSkreech> and most likely it's correct
[15:59] <DaSkreech> if it's not then the user will know that and next time will click one of the other two
[16:00] <DaSkreech> which in general is also correct
[16:00] <DaSkreech> with the possible exception of konqueror crashing and they want to keep the session in general but not load what is making it crash and they click the second option which dumps the old session
[16:01] <DaSkreech> which as I said I don't think is likely and would happen once ever for most people
[16:07] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I got bit by the infinite crash loop myself
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: The thing is that the same dialog also shows up when doing the normal KDE session restore on login, so Riddell thought that was the only way the dialog would show up
[16:09] <JontheEchidna> he said he totally forgot that the dialog came up after crashes
[16:10]  * JontheEchidna goes back to Pink Panther
[16:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: someone even pointed out the loopiness of that concept in the bug report ;-)
[16:11] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: btw, is the kde session restore bug 326803
[16:11] <Wellark> Hi! I've been using ubuntu for manu years now, but now I'm seriously considering switching to kubuntu.. umm, just to be sure.. I'm not the only one who has constantly plasma/random app crashes and hard freezes with alpha5? :)
[16:12] <apachelogger> Wellark: might be a X problem I guess
[16:12] <apachelogger> no crashes here, just some X glitches
[16:13] <Wellark> ok.. too bad my laptop doesn't have serial port.. serial console would be nice with those hard freezes
[16:14] <apachelogger> ssh ... assuming your system doesn't get eaten by those freezes ;-)
[16:14] <apachelogger> in that case ssh wouldn't make much sense either I suppose
[16:14] <Wellark> it does.
[16:15] <Wellark> caps lock starts blinking => kernel panic
[16:16] <apachelogger> hm, then I really think it's not caused by KDE
[16:17] <Wellark> well, no. not that :)
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I don't think that's the one. It could be related though
[16:35] <JontheEchidna> oh, maybe it is the one
[16:38] <Tonio_> apachelogger: yeah I have to look at that....
[16:39] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I guess there is no desktop file associated at this point
[16:39] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I'll try to fix that one.
[16:39] <apachelogger> \o/
[17:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: Any chance you could put on your developer hat long enough to look at vorian's amarok update?
[17:05] <apachelogger> ScottK: that depends entirely on the amount of changes
[17:05] <apachelogger> where can I find it?
[17:05] <JontheEchidna> kdeplasma-addons needs a retry on amd64
[17:05] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'll get you the link
[17:06] <a|wen> markey: looks like it might actually buil on intrepid: https://launchpad.net/~andreas-wenning/+archive/ppa
[17:07] <a|wen> markey: qt4.5 build on amd64 at least... so good chance that it will do on the other arches as well
[17:07] <ScottK> apachelogger: http://machine-crusade.net/amarok/amarok_2.0.2mysql5.1.30-0ubuntu1.dsc
[17:08] <apachelogger> we really should find a way to use lzma for the origs ;-)
[17:09] <apachelogger> way more efficient on source than binary
[17:09] <smarter> is it a known bug that on 4.2.1/4.5, actions on notifications don't work, at least on Kopete and KPackageKit?
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> It worked for me for today's KPK updates
[17:10] <smarter> (btw, KPackageKit still fails to work with a laconic "Authentification error :  :" here)
[17:10] <smarter> JontheEchidna: kpk?
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> KPackageKit
[17:10] <smarter> ah :)
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> :)
[17:11] <smarter> strangy
[17:11] <smarter> one positive point about my jaunty upgrade: boot time really seems to have decreased, even thought I have a ton of more or less useful service started :p
[17:12] <rgreening> smarter: try with EXT4. Even better
[17:12] <rgreening> :)
[17:12] <smarter> I'm on ext4 :)
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> How do I modify what services it tries to run at startup?
[17:12] <rgreening> ya. it rox
[17:12] <smarter> but I didn't experience anything special with Intrepid+ext4
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> I removed mysql and now it always tries to start it at startup. Since its not installed it fails
[17:12] <markey> a|wen: wow great, many thanks. will try soonish (shower now) :)
[17:12] <smarter> JontheEchidna: you forgot to remove a package then
[17:13] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: should have purged it
[17:13] <apachelogger> hm
[17:13] <smarter> JontheEchidna: dpkg -S /etc/init.d/mysql-whatever
[17:13] <apachelogger> ScottK, vorian: is it me or is most of the recent stuff not in bzr?
[17:13] <rgreening> remove doesn't always get rid of rc scripts
[17:13] <ScottK> apachelogger: Dunno.  I haven't looked.
[17:13] <rgreening> apachelogger: it should be up to date with Jaunty
[17:13] <smarter> rgreening: I'd consider it a bug if it doesn't remove the symlinks in /etc/rc*.d
[17:14] <rgreening> At least all my packages were (I uploaded to bzr myself)
[17:14] <rgreening> smarter: I agree
[17:14] <JontheEchidna> The package it is in is uninstalled :(
[17:14] <ScottK> apachelogger: I've never looked at amarok before and with Riddell out of town ...  I thought of you.
[17:14]  * JontheEchidna rm's the config
[17:14] <smarter> thought even that is fixable, use sudo aptitude purge $(dpkg -l|grep "^rc"|awk '{print $2}')
[17:14] <rgreening> Riddell updated bzr for his packages as well.
[17:14] <smarter> JontheEchidna: try that? ^ (:
[17:14] <rgreening> so, thats about half of them apachelogger
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> smarter: I just rm'd the mysql init scripts
[17:15]  * JontheEchidna reboots, he needs to test the new works-with-my-computer style kernel
[17:15]  * apachelogger tries pulling again
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> Fortunately Linus had the same bug as me :D
[17:16] <smarter> what bug?
[17:17] <JontheEchidna> Oh, certain nvidia cards do their own funky PCI stuff, causing modprobe to crash with any kernel from Intrepid onward
[17:17] <JontheEchidna> halting the startup process
[17:17] <smarter> ouch
[17:17] <apachelogger> vorian: you really need to changelog why you did something :S
[17:17] <JontheEchidna> I've been running a .26 kernel since the intrepid alphas
[17:17]  * JontheEchidna reboots for reals
[17:18] <apachelogger> rgreening: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/ubuntu
[17:19] <rgreening> lol
[17:21] <apachelogger> hm
[17:22] <apachelogger> yes, or rather no
[17:23] <ScottK> So I think I'm glad I asked you.
[17:23] <JontheEchidna> Meh, it's not fixed :(
[17:25] <apachelogger> vorian: +usr/share/kde4/apps/amarok/scripts/librivox_service/COPYING ..... see 1.4.8-2 + librivox is gpl2+, so same as all of amarok anyway, so unless there is a good reason to install it (e.g. awkward behaviour in script manager or something) -> leave it alone
[17:26] <apachelogger> vorian: +usr/share/dbus-1/interfaces/org.freedesktop.MediaPlayer.player.xml and others .... if something didn't change a lot since I became inactive those are only necessary for development, and since there is no -dev package...
[17:26] <apachelogger> vorian: same applies to all *.so in amarok.install
[17:26] <smarter> is the networkmanager plasmoid usable?
[17:27] <apachelogger> vorian: the bump to depend on later versions of kdelibs and soprano is unnecessary unless upstream bumped the deps
[17:27] <apachelogger> vorian: I don't know why you removed the kubuntu-debian-diff file, so at least document the reasoning for that
[17:27] <apachelogger> I like the removal of .directory though :)
[17:28] <apachelogger> vorian: while you are at it, you might want to check if we can gain some cd space by using lzma on the amarok packages
[17:29] <Quintasan> rgreening: Don't know how should it work but patched applies and compilation throws no errors
[17:29] <Quintasan> patch*
[17:30] <JontheEchidna> smarter: It works for my very limited usecase of a DHCP wired connection
[17:31] <smarter> Tonio_: ping
[17:33] <apachelogger> vorian: you might also want to evaluate if using lzma compression on the tars (rather than gzip) gives us some advantage ... I would expect 30-40% size loss of the origs
[17:33] <apachelogger> the good thing about tarball-in-tarball packaging: one can use non-gzip compression :D
[17:35] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: about bug 338251, If I "ls -al" and dobule click on a name of file, let's say "text.txt." it selects filename WITH extension. Is that expected behavior?
[17:35] <JontheEchidna> I dunno
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> Do you have the settings set up like in the KDE bug report?
[17:36] <Quintasan> Let me check
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> touch lol@lol.txt
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> ls -l
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> double click on lol@lol.txt
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> would be a good testcase, I'd imagine
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, it doesn't work here
[17:38] <Quintasan> selects everything here
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> good
[17:38] <Quintasan> I'm sending you diff, ok?
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> Sure
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> actually this was committed to the 4.2 branch
[17:39] <JontheEchidna> since it's not anything vital we should probably just wait until 4.2.2
[17:40] <Quintasan> sent :P
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> If I find something that needs fixing in kdebase before 4.2.2 I'll commit it
[17:41] <JontheEchidna> But I am feeling a bit lazy right now and have other bugs to fix :P
[17:42] <Quintasan> hmm, I have an important exam coming in April and I'm too lazy to prepare for it >_<
[17:46]  * Quintasan is going to learn history, test tomorrow
[17:48] <apachelogger> vorian: please run gunzip amarok_2.0.2.orig.tar.gz mysql-dfsg-5.1_5.1.30.orig.tar.gz  && lzma -9 amarok_2.0.2.orig.tar mysql-dfsg-5.1_5.1.30.orig.tar .... amarok goes from 6.6 to 3.5 and mysql from 18 to 9.4
[17:49] <apachelogger> don't forget to add lzma as build-dep and change the tar xf in rules :)
[17:49] <ScottK> apachelogger: He's at work.  Can you just fixor it up an upload?
[17:49] <apachelogger> I really didn't want to wear my hat that long :P
[17:59] <apachelogger> ScottK: ping
[18:00] <ScottK> apachelogger: Pong
[18:00] <apachelogger> ScottK: do we have some minion to digg into lzma?
[18:00] <ScottK> iirc JontheEchidna looked into it a bit.
[18:01] <apachelogger> devscripts got support orig.tar.lzma yesterday
[18:01] <apachelogger> and there is an open bug for soyuz to add tar.bz2 support
[18:01] <ScottK> apachelogger: But squeezing the tarball doesn't help on CD.  It's the .deb needs squeezing.
[18:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah, but it makes us more efficient
[18:02] <ScottK> Yes.  And policy calls for GZIP=-9
[18:02] <apachelogger> lzma -9
[18:02] <apachelogger> I squeezed almost 5 MiB out of the amarok+mysql orig
[18:02] <blizzz> konqueror crashes here after upgrade to 4.2.1 (intrepid). is this known?
[18:03] <smarter> blizzz: tried restarting KDE?
[18:03] <JontheEchidna> Oh, the new about page crashes Konq
[18:03] <JontheEchidna> bug 336057
[18:03] <blizzz> smarter: i did a reboot after upgrade
[18:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if you get a chance please testbuild more stuff with lzma ;-)
[18:04] <blizzz> JontheEchidna: that's it
[18:04] <maco> i hear plasma in intrepid-backports is broken today
[18:04] <apachelogger> even with a rate of 5 MiB on binaries, that makes a good amount if we apply lzma to the core KDE stuff we have on the CD
[18:04] <blizzz> passing another url works
[18:04] <JontheEchidna> aiee, where's Riddell?
[18:04] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: nigeria
[18:05] <apachelogger> hm
[18:05] <seele> ~twitter update i don't care what my office mates say, olives and garlic are brain food
[18:05] <apachelogger> how so?
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> Is he helping a nigerian price transfer a large sum of legitimate money?
[18:05] <kubotu> status updated
[18:05]  * Nightrose pokes JontheEchidna apachelogger and ScottK about pushing amarok 2.0.2
[18:05]  * JontheEchidna is but a humble MOTU
[18:05] <ScottK> maco: backports or kubuntu-experimental?
[18:05]  * apachelogger pokes Nightrose back
[18:05] <Nightrose> ;-)
[18:05] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: kinda like that yea
[18:05] <Nightrose> :D
[18:05] <ScottK> maco: Nothing's changed in backports recently.
[18:05] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: uh, you also got offered that transfer?
[18:06] <JontheEchidna> lol
[18:06] <maco> ScottK: experimental
[18:07] <apachelogger> ScottK: quassel needs to go lzma too :P
[18:07] <maco> ScottK: (i'm going back and forth between jabber-person and you)
[18:07]  * ScottK is reminded by seele's tweet that he's got some olives stuffed with something (garlic or cheese, he's not sure) in the fridge.
[18:07] <maco> -_- stop reminding me that i need to go grocery shopping for more garlic!
[18:07] <Nightrose> garlic--
[18:07] <Nightrose> seriously
[18:07] <apachelogger> someone change the channel topic to Kubuntu - the garlic OS
[18:08] <ScottK> maco: Do they have any plasma-widgets/plasmoids installed that didn't come from -experimental?
[18:08] <apachelogger> or Kubuntu - we ain't liking those darn vampires
[18:08] <maco> ScottK: he said all the plasmoids are gone
[18:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: I hear it keeps the Desktop Experience people away.
[18:08] <Nightrose> *lol*
[18:08] <Nightrose> ScottK: can you check what the status of amarok 2.0.2 is please?
[18:08] <apachelogger> Kubuntu - keep away from our broken but otherwise smooth notifications
[18:09] <Nightrose> rofl
[18:09] <maco> ScottK: he said that he installed updates but kdeplasma-addons didnt get updated with it (i guess its being held back?)
[18:09] <ScottK> Nightrose: The status is apachelogger just looked at it, but doesn't feel up to fixing it and upload it.
[18:09]  * Nightrose pokes apachelogger again
[18:09] <Nightrose> :P
[18:09] <ScottK> maco: There was someone here earlier talking about a file conflict.
[18:09] <maco> apachelogger: about those notifications
[18:09] <ScottK> I didn't catch the details.
[18:10] <maco> apachelogger: have you seen the "persistent notification" talk in the "Everyone's mad that update-notifier is gone and update-manager launches" thread?
[18:10] <maco> why isnt the kpackagekit update notification persistent?
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> because controlling the length of KNotifications is completely broken for the system tray widget
[18:11] <JontheEchidna> The old-style notifications are persistant
[18:11] <snikker> i've updated kubuntu (kubuntu ppa repositories) but now, i'm unable to reinstall "kdeplasma-addons". I've got this error: "kdeplasma-addons: Depends: kdeplasma-addons-data (=4:4.2.0-0ubuntu1~intrepid1) but 4:4.2.1-0ubuntu1~intrepid1 will be installed" Can i force it?
[18:11] <maco> uh huh
[18:12] <maco> i think that's what the guy im talking to is hitting
[18:12] <apachelogger> ScottK: I am doing the buildering
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> which come to think of it might be another reason to implement bug 338206
[18:12] <apachelogger> well, build start anyways, to ensure my lzma stuff works
[18:12] <ScottK> apachelogger: Excellent
[18:12] <maco> snikker: was just asking about that...
[18:12] <snikker> maco: :)
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> Did anybody retry kdeplasma-addons on amd64 yet?
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> ScottK, apachelogger^
[18:13] <snikker> JontheEchidna: i'm on amd64
[18:13] <ScottK> No.  I'll do it now.
[18:13] <apachelogger> I shall not do multitasking while not actually being here at all :P
[18:13] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: thanks
[18:13] <JontheEchidna> snikker: yeah, it failed to build on amd64. maybe the deps shouldn't have been so tight
[18:14] <snikker> JontheEchidna: oh, i understand
[18:14] <JontheEchidna> (very tight build-deps caused a FTBFS)
[18:14] <apachelogger> hm, I better don't say what I am thinking right now
[18:14] <JontheEchidna> wow, a lotta stuff in the ppa looks like it ftbfs'd
[18:14] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if it were tight enough it should have caused a dep-wait
[18:14] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Yep.  Somone needs to clean that up.
[18:15] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: the kdepimlibs-dev file was at the correct version, but not the libs
[18:15] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think a lot of it's archive skew.
[18:15] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That's probably built on i386, but not amd64.
[18:15] <JontheEchidna> oh, its retrying amd64 in the ppa right now
[18:15] <ScottK> I just did that.
[18:15] <apachelogger> well
[18:15] <apachelogger> you know
[18:15] <apachelogger> if I wasn't so short on time
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> I checked. kdepimlibs was built for all main archs this morning
[18:16] <ScottK> I did both PPA and Jaunty
[18:16] <apachelogger> I would rewrite soyuz in ruby and in a sensible matter :P
[18:16] <ScottK> Hmmm.
[18:21] <JontheEchidna> Oh, tonio reuploaded kdeplasma addons
[18:24] <Tonio_> hum I have a propper jaunty installation just nearby, and when I edit the kmenu, it hangs plasma
[18:24] <Tonio_> 100% reproductible
[18:24] <Tonio_> no pb on my machine....
[18:24]  * Mamarok_ is running Jaunty now :)
[18:24] <Tonio_> can someone test so that if it can be confirmed i'll report the bug please ?
[18:25] <JontheEchidna> using kmenuedit?
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> Works fine here
[18:26] <Mamarok_> Tonio_: doesn't hang here, 64-bit
[18:27] <Mamarok_> but kded4 is running heavy on CPU, goes up to 95% when idle
[18:30] <Mamarok_> hm, still have some packages not updated to 4.2.1: kdeutils, kdepim, kdeedu, kdenetwork, kdeadmin, kdesdk
[18:32] <Tonio_> Mamarok: oki
[18:32] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I think they ftbfs due to build-deps and need reupload
[18:32] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I'll have a look toonight at all of those and reup what's needed
[18:33] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I just reuploaded kdeplasma-addons because of that
[18:34] <Tonio_> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/4:4.2.1-0ubuntu1
[18:34] <Tonio_> Mamarok: as you can see, it failed with amd64... I hope everything will be fixed toonight
[18:34] <ScottK> Tonio_: I think a lot of these just need retries.
[18:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: I think you can do retries, I cannot :)
[18:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: needs to be archive admin right ?
[18:35] <ScottK> Tonio_: No.  Anyone who can upload can retry now.
[18:35] <Tonio_> ScottK: hum yeah when I said fixing I thought about "reuploading" :)
[18:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's what I did for kdeplasma-addons and it fixed up the issue
[18:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: nevermind, I'll reupload all the packages toonight
[18:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: I have some time now :)
[18:36] <ScottK> Generally a retry is better because then all archs don't have to get rebuilt.
[18:36] <Tonio_> ScottK: how do you do the retry then ?
[18:37] <ScottK> Let me get you an example
[18:37] <apachelogger> go to the build's lp page
[18:37] <apachelogger> or use buildd from ubuntu-dev-tools
[18:37] <apachelogger> buildd would only work for official builds of course
[18:37] <ScottK> Tonio_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/4:4.2.1-0ubuntu1/+build/892354 should have a retry link for you
[18:37] <Tonio_> "you can retry".... indeed :)
[18:37] <Tonio_> ScottK: I never figured that one out... stupid of me
[18:37] <ScottK> It came in while you were inactive, so one of those catching up things.  Not a big deal.
[18:38] <Mamarok_> Tonio_: thx in advance!
[18:39] <Tonio_> Mamarok_: yw :)
[18:39] <Tonio_> ScottK: yeah it changes so fast.... leave for 3 month and you almost have to re-learn everything from scratch...
[18:40] <Tonio_> ScottK: I hope I won't have to leave again :)
[18:40] <ScottK> kdeadmin does need re-upload to the PPA.  It's currently depwait python-kde4 (>= 4:4.2.1)
[18:42] <ScottK> Also kdeartwork.  It's a real FTBFS due to packaging bug.
[18:44] <Tonio_> Mamarok: all packages are in the queue for rebuilt...
[18:44] <Tonio_> ScottK: will o the kdeadmin thing
[18:46] <ScottK> I just retried all the failed amd64 builds in the PPA except for those two.
[18:46]  * ScottK REALLY needs to go focus on $WORK.
[18:46] <ScottK> So please someone fix and upload kdeadmin and kdeartwork.
[18:46] <ScottK> .. to the PPA.
[18:48] <apachelogger> hum
[18:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: kdeadmin seems fixed for me
[18:48] <Tonio_> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeadmin/4:4.1.2-0ubuntu2
[18:48] <Tonio_> ScottK: i'll fix kdeartwork
[18:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: recompressing the runtime orig.tar with lzma makes it go from 71 to 56 MiB :D
[18:48] <ScottK> Tonio_: I'm talking about in the PPA.
[18:49] <Tonio_> ScottK: ah right...
[18:52] <Tonio_> scott_ev: afaics, kdeamdin just needs rebuilds, towards to python-kde4 and kdepimlibs (which concerned most packages
[18:52] <Tonio_> ScottK: that was for you sorry
[18:53] <scott_ev> Tonio_: yuou do it too...haha
[18:53] <Tonio_> scott_ev: one of you 2 has to change :)
[18:54] <scott_ev> well, he and I can thumb wrestle for it
[18:54] <ScottK> Tonio_: The problem in kdeadmin is the build-dep is 4:4.2.1, not 4:4.2.1~
[18:54] <ScottK> For Juanty that'd be fine.
[18:54] <ScottK> Wait.
[18:55] <Tonio_> ScottK: it worked for i386 so...
[18:56] <ScottK> Tonio_: Altnernatively the problem is no one uploaded kde4bindings.
[18:56] <ScottK> No, it's depwait.
[18:56] <ScottK> Tonio_: I'm still on the PPA.
[18:57] <Tonio_> ScottK: which one ? experimental ?
[18:57] <ScottK> Yes https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-experimental/+archive/ppa
[18:57] <Tonio_> ScottK: I was talking about the archives, only :)
[18:58] <Tonio_> ScottK: as I've been rude with you (and I'm still really sorry) I'll try to help on the ppa side once I get all depwait and build issues fixed in jaunty :)
[18:58] <ScottK> Thanks.
[18:58] <Tonio_> ScottK: yw
[18:58]  * ScottK really needs to do $WORK
[18:59]  * ScottK figures JontheEchidna'll have if fixored in no time anyway
[19:01]  * Tonio_ goes back home seya :)
[19:01] <apachelogger> ehm
[19:01] <apachelogger> a) something is weird about that amarok packaging
[19:01] <apachelogger> b) something is weird about those orig.tars
[19:19] <FireRabbit> hey are there plans to add kdebindings 4.2.1 to the kubuntu-experimental PPA for intrepid?
[19:21] <ScottK> FireRabbit: There are.  It was an oversight.
[19:21] <FireRabbit> okay i'll keep an eye on it, thanks
[19:22] <apachelogger> I don't get it
[19:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: could you please try to testbuild vorian's package in a pbuilder
[19:23] <ScottK> apachelogger: Some of the stuff that's in there is deep voodoo that Riddell was required to do to get anything with mysql 5.1 in it into Main.
[19:23] <ScottK> Dunno if that relates or not.
[19:23] <apachelogger> for some reason it runs dpatch before extracting the amarok tarball, and for some reason it can't find the mysql dir ... might be related to my lzma changes
[19:23] <ScottK> OK
[19:23] <apachelogger> if I run it from within the error-shell it all works just fine
[19:24] <apachelogger> maybe it is dpatch hating me again :S
[19:30] <apachelogger> 322M    tarballs-gzip
[19:30] <apachelogger> 265M    tarballs-lzma
[19:30] <apachelogger> 4.2.0 that is
[19:32] <FireRabbit> what would I do to apply to become a developer so I can help you guys out with this stuff in the future?
[19:32] <ScottK> It's grinding away
[19:32] <ScottK> FireRabbit: Show up here and start helping.
[19:33] <ScottK> FireRabbit: You're half way there.
[19:33] <FireRabbit> okay, well i've done that. I wrote those patches for the latest kdebindings package..
[19:35] <smarter> there's no official kubuntu dev status :)
[19:35] <FireRabbit> okay :)
[19:35] <apachelogger> smarter: define "official"
[19:35] <smarter> you can become a kubuntu member if that's not already the case
[19:35] <FireRabbit> i dont think i am
[19:36] <smarter> apachelogger: #define officia(x)l hasALPTeamWithName(x)
[19:36] <smarter> *official(x)
[19:36] <ScottK> NCommander: Can you rescore up the amd64 retries from kubuntu-experimental PPA?
[19:36] <apachelogger> that said
[19:36] <apachelogger> letz switch to sf.net
[19:36] <apachelogger> :P
[19:36] <smarter> yay
[19:36] <apachelogger> or some rails based thingy
[19:36] <smarter> google code + github seems to be all the hype
[19:37]  * NCommander looks at the build queues
[19:37] <FireRabbit> github is actually very nice
[19:37] <apachelogger> google code is not
[19:37] <ScottK> NCommander: Thanks.
[19:37] <FireRabbit> apachelogger: not at all
[19:37] <NCommander> ScottK, er, whats the justification for the rescore? (I can do it, but ... seriously, rescoring a PPA?)
[19:38] <ScottK> NCommander: We've got users with half upgraded KDEs that are broken.
[19:38] <NCommander> That's a good reason
[19:38] <NCommander> rescoring
[19:38] <ScottK> Thanks
[19:38] <apachelogger> hm
[19:38] <apachelogger> that question was weird, you know :P
[19:38] <apachelogger> oh
[19:38] <apachelogger> ScottK: it appears my pbuilder is just broken
[19:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: soyuz successfully started to build with my lzma stuff
[19:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: So I can kill my build?
[19:39] <apachelogger> aye
[19:39] <apachelogger> thx anyway
[19:39] <ScottK> It did also start
[19:40]  * apachelogger uploads to ubuntu
[19:40] <ScottK> I also managed to kill the correct one and not my third try and fixing samba4 for the python transition.
[19:40] <ScottK> and/at
[19:51] <seele> ~twitter update scientific research is the ultimate form of creativity
[19:52] <kubotu> status updated
[19:52]  * ScottK waves some garlic to seele.
[19:53] <seele> mmm.. garlic
[19:54] <apachelogger> you have 18 updates
[19:54] <apachelogger> did I already mention that kpk is not exactly translated to german :P
[19:56] <maco> seele: how does this kubotu thing work?
[19:57] <maco> apachelogger: youstein havenstein 18 updaten?
[19:57] <seele> kubotu help
[19:57] <kubotu> help topics: 10 core modules: auth, basics, config, filters, httputil, irclog, remote, unicode, userdata, wordlist; 45 plugins: alias, autoop, autorejoin, babel, bans, bar, botsnack, chanserv, debug, dns, eightball, excuse, factoids, hangman, host, iplookup, karma, keywords, lart, lastfm, modes, nickrecover, nickserv, q, quote, reaction, remind, ri, roshambo, rot, rss, salut, script, search, seen, shiritori, time, topic,
[19:57] <kubotu> translator, twitter, uno, urban, usermodes, wheeloffortune, wserver (help <topic> for more info)
[19:57] <seele> maco: i can't really tell you because i only know a few of the commands
[19:57] <maco> ok
[19:57] <seele> i would just ask kubotu for help, that'sl how i figured out twitter
[19:58] <apachelogger> help twitter
[19:58] <apachelogger> ~help twitter
[19:58] <kubotu> twitter status [nick] => show nick's (or your) status, use 'twitter friends status [nick]' to also show the friends' timeline | twitter update [status] => updates your status on twitter | twitter identify [username] [password] => ties your nick to your twitter username and password | twitter actions [on|off] => enable/disable twitting of actions (/me does ...)
[19:58] <apachelogger> if it only supported identica
[19:58] <maco> apachelogger: exactly what i was thinking
[19:58] <apachelogger> maybe it does
[19:58] <apachelogger> but I am not feeling like upgrading :P
[19:58] <maco> the API is twitter-compatible....
[20:02] <apachelogger> maco: feel free to implement support for identica then ;-)
[20:07] <maco> what language is kubotu written in?
[20:08] <Tm_T> maco: /whois it, it says it's ruby bot
[20:08] <maco> in that case.....no
[20:10] <maco> already have to either learn C++ or python to try to do qt stuffs for school. not trying to learn ruby at the same time.
[20:10] <stdin> maco: you can use Qt in ruby too :)
[20:11] <stdin> after learning python, ruby is quite simple to learn too
[20:11] <maco> after isnt the issue. simultaneous is.
[20:15] <rgreening> ruby = evil twin of python
[20:16] <ScottK> rgreening: I'll give you half of that.
[20:16] <rgreening> :)
[20:17] <rgreening> hmm... resurrecting old lappy for ubuntu studio...
[21:10]  * ScottK notes the continued lack of kde4bindings in kubuntu-experimental.
[21:10] <ScottK> It'll be a good 4-6 hours before I can get to it...
[21:19] <JontheEchidna> blargh
[21:19] <DaSkreech> bleaugh
[21:21] <JontheEchidna> Now that I've barfed I feel better... XP
[21:25] <DaSkreech> Well I can't imagine a situation where holding back barf would make you feel better
[21:41] <Tonio_> hi there
[21:41] <Tonio_> ScottK: remind me what packaging you need for the intrepid ppa ?
[21:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: wasn't it kde4bindings ?
[21:42]  * JontheEchidna is on it
[21:43] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: great :)
[21:45]  * Tonio_ plans on finishing the k3b work tomorrow.... I just have to buy some rewritable dvds..
[21:45]  * JontheEchidna uploads kde4bindings
[21:47]  * Tonio_ wonders why we still ship with koffice1....
[21:47] <Tonio_> does anybody nows why we didn't replace it with koffice2 ?
[21:48] <Tonio_> I mean, koffice has very limited userbase, isn't stable and koffice2 isn't any worse, imho....
[21:48] <DaSkreech> Cause it hasn't been released yet?
[21:48] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: k3b hasn't been released, plasmoid-network-manager too
[21:48] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: we have lots of svn components on jaunty
[21:48] <DaSkreech> plasmoid-network-manager hasn't been released for time consideration not for crashing issues
[21:49] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: well I have an interesting list of bugs with it, hehe
[21:49] <DaSkreech> Any way I think the next version of Koffice is going to be RC so we can take a look at that
[21:50] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: Any that can wipe out your last month's worth of work?
[21:51] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: hum, nope, nothing critical indeed
[21:52] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: but I must say I don't know any person that use koffice on a working purpose (except from krita...)
[21:52] <DaSkreech> ok Well when it does that and you still feel that it should be included we can resume talks :)
[21:52] <DaSkreech> koffice1 is crashy but I don't think it has data loss bugs
[21:52] <DaSkreech>  koffice 2 does
[21:53] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: bah any productivity oriented app that doesn't save on the fly and that crashes is potentially datalos app to me ;)
[21:53] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: but yeah, maybe we should consider waiting a bit :)
[21:54] <DaSkreech> I have no problems with offering it but it really should be treated like KDE 4.0
[21:54] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: absolutly true
[21:54] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: but as I say to me koffice isn't any better
[21:54] <DaSkreech> Not on by default and the user should have to work to get it just so they can know that it's not quite ready
[21:54] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: I wouldn't even consider replacing koffice1 if it ware any better than koffice 2
[21:55] <Tonio_> w/ware/were
[21:55] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: Fine. But people seeing an upgrade from Koffice 1 to Koffice 2 are going to naturally say ooooh the better version is out
[21:55] <smarter> Tonio_: is current network-manager plasmoid in Jaunty usable?
[21:55] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: hum, that indeed makes sense
[21:55] <Tonio_> smarter: yep
[21:55] <Tonio_> smarter: the only thing that won't work for me is changing specific vpn options
[21:55] <smarter> Tonio_: cool! :) does it handles WPA?
[21:56] <Tonio_> smarter: yep
[21:56] <smarter> great
[21:56] <DaSkreech> WPA2?
[21:56]  * DaSkreech winces
[21:56] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: yep
[21:56] <DaSkreech> Serious?
[21:56] <DaSkreech> Whoohoo!
[21:56] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: yep :)
[21:56] <DaSkreech> I can reinstall kubuntu on my friends laptop
[21:56] <DaSkreech> That was the killer for her
[21:56] <valgaav> I couldn't connect to a hidden network with it though ...
[21:57] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: the only thing I've seen is some people that tried the broken version a couple of month ago getting annoyance due to cache entries in kwallet
[21:57] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: but as long as you are free of any plasmoid-network entries, it works like a charm :)
[21:57] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: even the networkstatus things do work :)
[21:57] <DaSkreech> hmm so will the Jackalope package have to ensure that is so  ?
[21:58] <DaSkreech> Wow Working stuff in KDE4? So the stories aren't true!
[21:58] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: nope since technically people having entries are people that tested jaunty at it's very early stage....
[21:58] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: any hardy/intrepid user is empty of any crap cache
[21:58] <DaSkreech> ah ok :) I wonder if some joker has a third party repo up with it
[21:58] <Tonio_> one thing I'm affraid of is people getting their inhabits...
[21:59] <Tonio_> they'll still use knetworkmanager unless it gets removed
[21:59] <Tonio_> same goes for adept since they might miss kpackagekit in systemsettings
[21:59] <Tonio_> we need to document the changes very clearly
[21:59] <DaSkreech> wait kpackagekit isn't going to conflict with adept ?
[22:00] <DaSkreech> Wait no yeah that's stupid
[22:00] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: nope, they both can work together...
[22:00] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: we removed the recommends from the metapackage
[22:00] <DaSkreech> .debs are associated wtih Gdebi still ?
[22:00] <Mamarok> kpackagekit is supposed to be in systemsettings?
[22:00] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: but it won't be uninstalled for people upgrading... that concerns me...
[22:00] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[22:00] <Tonio_> Mamarok: it feets in systemsettings indeed
[22:01] <DaSkreech> Well I think for the most part community will step in
[22:01] <Mamarok> so it didn't install on upgrade then
[22:01] <DaSkreech>  lots of people hate Dept enough anyway
[22:01] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: debs are associated to kpackagekit since it also can install local debs :)
[22:01] <DaSkreech>  Will the xapian bug be patched in jackalope?
[22:01] <DaSkreech> Adept
[22:01] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: and we get rid of gdebi afaik
[22:01] <DaSkreech> \o/
[22:01] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: nope
[22:01] <DaSkreech> Awww :-( Why ?
[22:01] <Tonio_> adept is demoted to universe and unmainted...
[22:02] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: plus our energy now goes to kpackagekit...
[22:02] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: but I don't know if we should consider drop adept completly
[22:02] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: it is buggy, unmaintained and btw, not very popular...
[22:03] <DaSkreech> Yes I know that's kinda why I thought it would conflict
[22:03] <Mamarok> to be honest, I always use synaptic...
[22:03] <Mamarok> it's ugly as hell but it's working really fine
[22:03]  * DaSkreech just wants debtags :)
[22:03] <Tonio_> Mamarok: you are on jaunty right ?
[22:04] <Tonio_> Mamarok: try out kpackagekit :)
[22:04] <Tonio_> Mamarok: and let me know your feeling please :)
[22:05] <maco> bug!
[22:05] <maco> oh no wait
[22:05] <maco> just slow
[22:05] <maco> i'm looking at kpackagekit :P clicked a package and no info showed so i thought it was a bug. my computer's just not redrawing anything very fast...i'm typing faster than echo
[22:05] <Tonio_> latest k3b kde4 will be built on my ppa for interested testers.... we really want it in jaunty so any feedback is very welcome
[22:06] <vorian> Tonio_: what linky?
[22:06] <Tonio_> launchpad.net/~tonio
[22:06] <vorian> I was just about to burn a few iso's
[22:06] <Mamarok> Tonio_: just did
[22:06] <Mamarok> it should be installed by default
[22:06] <Mamarok> like it :)
[22:06] <maco> what would be nice in update-manager and kpackagekit is if, when it says there's a blocked update, the "package info" section included why it was blocked.
[22:06] <valgaav> @Mamrok you can make synaptic to look kde4 like with qt gtk engine
[22:07] <valgaav> but it needs a little hack to work
[22:07] <Tonio_> Mamarok: kpackagekit isn't as powerfull as synaptic fyi, and will never be
[22:07] <maco> um..why is kpackagekit launching gksudo?
[22:08] <Tonio_> maco: that's not gksudo
[22:08] <Tonio_> maco: that's probablu policykit-gnome...
[22:08] <maco> oh
[22:08] <Tonio_> maco: now the question is : why do you have it installed :)
[22:08] <Tonio_> we now have policykit-kde
[22:09] <maco> Tonio_: i have both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop installed
[22:09] <Tonio_> I don't know which one is used if both are installed btw...
[22:09] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: It's expected to have a full release during the jackalope cycle correct?
[22:09] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: a full release ? you mean ?
[22:09] <Tonio_> maco: can you confirm the policykit-kde package is installed for you ?
[22:09] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: k3b
[22:10] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: afaik trueg wants it finished and regularly commits yes
[22:10] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: and it already isn't that bad...
[22:10] <DaSkreech> Yeah I think the cacaphony is getting to him
[22:11] <maco> Tonio_: ah you're right. apparently i dont have that package installed...no idea what i uninstalled that took it out though...
[22:11] <Tonio_> maco: no idea...
[22:12] <Tonio_> well kpackagekit depends on policykit-kde|policykit-gnome
[22:12] <Tonio_> maco: so if you have the -gnome one, the -kde won't get installed with it...
[22:12] <Tonio_> maco: simple and logic
[22:12] <maco> um....kpackagekit says (hehe this window needs to default to bigger):
[22:12] <maco> title: An internal system er
[22:12] <maco> A problem that we were not expe\nPlease report this bug with the e
[22:13] <maco> (i installed policykit-kde in term while kpk was running, then quit kpk and restarted it)
[22:13] <maco> after that i got this error
[22:13] <Tonio_> maco: hu ??????
[22:13] <Tonio_> ouch..... I never saw any crash with it...
[22:13] <Tonio_> maco: can you reproduce or ?
[22:13] <maco> it didnt crash, just through an error at me
[22:14] <maco> details button says "The backend took too much time to process the synchronous request - you need to fork!"
[22:14] <Tonio_> maco: weird...
[22:14] <Tonio_> maco: hum I know that one, but that's packagekit related, not kpackagekit...
[22:15] <Tonio_> maco: are you up to date ? there should be a workarround for that one in the last upload...
[22:15] <maco> Tonio_: anything that could be done about the error window's size?
[22:15] <maco> i was about to install updates when it errored at me
[22:15] <maco> i clicked "Software Updates" and got that error
[22:15] <Tonio_> maco: yeah, well up2date it "should" work :)
[22:16] <Tonio_> maco: about the window size ? I must say I have no idea, as I can even reproduce your proble
[22:16] <Tonio_> maco: we probably have to make sure there is no error in the first place :)
[22:16] <maco> if i click "refresh" it does that too
[22:18] <maco> clicked refresh again...98% loading cache...still no error
[22:18] <maco> oh there it is
[22:20] <Tonio_> maco: I'd be interested to know if you still have the issue once updated...
[22:31] <markey> konsole with Qt 4.5 is kinda amazing.. creates artwork patterns in the background
[22:31] <markey>  http://mark.kollide.net/konsole_qt45_borked2.png
[22:32] <markey> anyone got similar issues?
[22:37]  * ScottK thinks we should have done 4.5 and then KDE 4.2.1, just to be safe.
[22:38] <markey> I dunno what's causing my specific issue. I hear e.g. it work ok on gentoo
[22:38] <markey> might be a combination of nvidia driver, and whatnot
[22:38] <markey> but nice, it's not ;)
[22:38] <DaSkreech> markey: wow. That's deafening
[22:39] <Quintasan> markey: desktop effects on? :P
[22:39] <markey> yes, using composite and effects, as usual
[22:40] <Quintasan> looks nice :P
[22:40]  * Quintasan likes 22 opened windows in irssi
[22:40] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[22:41] <DaSkreech> Deafening
[22:41] <Quintasan> No effects for me, Radeon 9550
[22:42] <Quintasan> lol, they work :D
[22:43] <Quintasan> Ok, Qt 4.5 needs to be done first
[22:43] <Quintasan> I dont see right click menus :P
[22:44] <markey> a minor inconvenience ;)
[22:44] <Quintasan> Or it's drivers fault
[22:45] <markey> seriously, I think Qt 4.5 causes a lot of regressions, compared to the usual quality Qt releases
[22:45]  * DaSkreech blames jambi
[22:46] <Quintasan> Hmm you know, I should go to sleep because its near midnight and I have to get up at 7 o'clock to school :P
[22:46] <Quintasan> nearly*
[22:47]  * Quintasan is off
[22:47] <Quintasan> bye :P
[22:48] <markey> cya
[23:03] <ScottK> Tonio_: This is from #amarok:
[23:03] <ScottK> [18:03:06] <Mamarok> hm, somebody should talk to the French loco, I already told them month ago, but they still announce Kubuntu 8.04 to be LTS...
[23:04] <Tonio_> ScottK: indeed that's pretty bad ;)
[23:04] <Tonio_> ScottK: well technically the core is, but not the kde support...
[23:04] <ScottK> Yes, so Kubuntu is not.
[23:05]  * smarter already pointed them at it (:
[23:05] <Tonio_> ScottK: yup`:)
[23:05] <Mamarok> hm, I'm not part of the French team, just left a message to their webmaster some time ago, nothing changed
[23:05] <smarter> not sure if a bug has been reported
[23:05] <smarter> that'd be the easiest way to ensure someone will notice it
[23:05] <Mamarok> oh, right, that would be an idea
[23:05] <Tonio_> Mamarok: where is that announced ? the french loco team leader is a very goo friend of mine, so maybe I can just ping him :)
[23:06]  * ScottK suspects that one of you who is French would have the best chance to get it fixed.
[23:06] <Mamarok> not tonight though, bed is calling, will check that tomorrow, promised
[23:06] <Mamarok> Tonio_: who is the leader?
[23:06] <smarter> Mamarok: you're French? :)
[23:06] <Tonio_> Mamarok: nickname is huats
[23:06] <Tonio_> Mamarok: real name is Christophe Sautier
[23:07] <smarter> here is the lp project to report bug against: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-fr-website
[23:07] <Mamarok> ok, will do that tomorrow, thx
[23:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: I have a little request about NEW
[23:09] <ScottK> OK.  You can ask ....
[23:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: riddell was supposed to look at knemo and kblogger...
[23:10] <Tonio_> ScottK: any chance you can look at it eventually ? riddell really doesn't have time for this I guess..
[23:10] <ScottK> Tonio_: I can try.  I will tell you that for source New if I have any doubts I won't accept it due to legal concerns.
[23:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: oki ;)
[23:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: both packages don't have any FFE, since according to riddell they shouldn't be considered new, as they existed before being droped and reintroduced as kde4 apps
[23:12] <ScottK> OK.
[23:12] <ScottK> The major reason to stop accepting new packages is so the archive admins can focus on other stuff.  If I do it, it's not a concern.
[23:16] <Mamarok> ok, bug submitted: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-fr-website/+bug/338505
[23:17] <Mamarok> Tonio_: maybe ping your friend about that bug
[23:17] <Mamarok> good night everyone :)
[23:17]  * Lure has written his notices for clean Jaunty install to kubuntu-devel ML
[23:18] <Tonio_> Mamarok: yup :)
[23:18] <Tonio_> Mamarok: I'll subscribe him :)
[23:27] <Lure> Tonio_: it looks like kdeplasma-addons rebuild did not help
[23:28] <Tonio__> Lure: it builds on my ppa...
[23:29] <Tonio_> Lure: it is quite a bit better ;) jaunty amd64 Successfully built (ACCEPTED)
[23:30] <Lure> Tonio_: but kdeplasma-addons is still not installable here
[23:30] <Lure> kdeplasma-addons: Depends: kdeplasma-addons-data (= 4:4.2.0-0ubuntu3) but 4:4.2.1-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
[23:30] <Lure> strange is that -data did install
[23:31] <Tonio_> hum....... cache issue ?
[23:31] <Tonio_> what does apt-cache policy report ?
[23:31] <Tonio_> and eventually check the deps.... I don't know, it should be okay
[23:32] <Lure> Tonio_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/126974/ / just strange
[23:33] <Tonio_> Lure: bah.... repo sync incomplete or so.... it should get fixed automagically soon I guess :)
[23:34]  * Lure tries other mirror
[23:36] <Lure> same problem...
[23:50] <ScottK> Tonio_: If it's "Accepted" that means it's built, but not published yet.  You need a publisher run (at :03) to get it to "Done".
[23:56] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know, but it took a very long time...
[23:57] <Tonio_> ScottK: lots of packages accepted yesterday long after this upload where in the archives long before :)
[23:57] <Tonio_> ScottK: that's why I thought there was a problem
[23:57] <Tonio_> strange queue thing I suspect...
[23:57] <ScottK> It FTBFS due to archive skew the first time, so I retried it.
[23:57] <ScottK> It built on the 2nd try
[23:58] <ScottK> Unfortunately the people that uploaded yesterday didn't really follow it....