[00:31] <rickspencer3> mrooney: what kind of hints are you looking for?
[00:33] <mrooney> rickspencer3: well, if it is a valid bug or not, basically. Is that a standard for the desktop, or do we want to say it is fine for some things in System -> Preferences to not dismiss via escape?
[00:33] <rickspencer3> I believe it is a valid bug, and should be fixed, however ....
[00:34] <rickspencer3> I would check with mpt, our UI guru and all around smart Ux guy
[00:34] <mpt> I'm not awake. Fortunately, this is the sort of question I can answer in my sleep
[00:35] <mpt> There should be a standard key combo for closing dialogs, and there should be a standard key combo for closing windows.
[00:35] <mpt> Currently, there is neither.
[00:35] <rickspencer3> mpt: thanks. Didn't mean to wake you
[00:35] <rickspencer3> mrooney: I think if most of the preference dialogs dismiss on escape, we should pick that as the standard, and have all of them do so
[00:35] <rickspencer3> my $.02
[00:36] <mpt> In dialogs, Esc means Cancel, so it would be/is confusing for that to close instant-apply windows (as most of the Preferences windows are) without reverting whatever changes you'd made.
[00:38] <mpt> That's one of the things that flummoxes a standard. The other is the Emacs etc users who don't like Ctrl W being used to close windows. :-)
[00:38] <rickspencer3> I thought alt-f4 was the standard way to close all windows
[00:39] <mpt> That is a standard, but not usably so -- on some keyboards it's very difficult to reach with one hand, and on others it requires three keypresses rather than two (Alt Fn F4).
[00:40] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[00:40] <rickspencer3> perhaps a uds topic on keyboard standardization?
[00:40] <rickspencer3> in the meantime, what should mrooney do?
[00:44] <mpt> Basically I think it needs someone to have the audacity to devise a keyboard combo that can be consistent and easy to reach, and to get it implemented in the window manager so that applications have to go to extraordinary lengths for it not to work.
[00:45] <rickspencer3> like alt-f
[00:45] <rickspencer3> 4
[00:45] <mpt> (Audacity because any keyboard combo meeting those requirements will conflict with something important. Like Cmd M and Cmd H did when they were introduced in Mac OS X, for example.)
[00:45] <rickspencer3> it seems like just replacing that would be a good approach
[00:46] <mpt> right
[00:46] <rickspencer3> I'll put in on the list for consideration as a UDS topic
[00:47] <rickspencer3> in the meantime, sounds like mrooney doesn't really have a "standard" to appeal to. The hig does not cover this?
[00:47] <mpt> And if you thought the complaints about update-manager were bad, just wait until you see what the complaints would look like about changing a keyboard combo like that :-)
[00:48] <mpt> http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/input-keyboard.html.en#standard-shortcuts defines Ctrl W and Alt F4
[00:52] <mrooney> alright so it sounds like if all the other ones in that menu do it, to file bugs against the very few that don't conform?
[00:54] <mrooney> oh hey mpt I think we had breakfast together one morning at UDS Jaunty? that sounds vaguely familiar
[00:54] <mpt> mrooney, sure, if you like
[00:55] <james_w> mpt: I'm confused by the changes in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-user-share/+bug/337352 , the statement from the NotifyOSD page about the package also confuses me
[00:55] <james_w> mpt: would you comment tomorrow if I subscribe you?
[00:57] <mpt> james_w, the statement on the NotifyOSD page about gnome-user-share is not "the desired operation", it's a description of the behavior with notification-daemon.
[00:57] <james_w> that's what I thought
[00:57] <james_w> I wondered why it was cited as a description of the change when the patch implements something completely different
[00:58] <mpt> I'm not sure what the patch does. It looks like it auto-opens the file??
[00:59] <james_w> assuming close is still sent by nofify-osd it seems to show then notification then auto-open the file at the end of the notification
[00:59] <mpt> hm, that's not good
[01:00] <james_w> it's certainly not a simple "query for action support" patch
[01:02] <mpt> no
[01:04] <mpt> james_w, have you seen this notification in action? If so, could you possibly provide a screencast or screenshot? I tried with several people's Bluetooth phones to send a file like that but could not.
[01:04] <james_w> I haven't
[01:04] <mpt> And it's hard to redesign what I can't see. :-)
[01:04] <james_w> and I don't have bluetooth, sorry
[01:04] <james_w> crevette is hot on bluetooth I think
[01:05] <james_w> but he's in our sort of timezone, so probably being sensible and sleeping
[01:07] <mpt> oh, why did I think gnome-user-share was Bluetooth? According to Synaptic it's WebDAV or ObexFTP.
[01:08] <james_w> obex is bluetooth isn't it?
[01:11] <dobey> obex is a protocol, doesn't really /have/ to be over bluetooth, but lots of bt devices support it
[01:19] <mpt> james_w, commented
[01:19] <james_w> thanks mpt
[07:52] <pitti> Good morning
[08:26] <didrocks> hello pitti
[08:30] <didrocks> hey seb128 o/
[08:30] <seb128> hello didrocks
[08:37] <seb128_> hum
[08:38] <seb128_> restarting dbus nowadays not a good idea it bring you back to gdm with no keyboard or mouse working
[08:38] <crevette> yep :)
[08:38]  * crevette already experienced that
[08:38] <crevette> (hello everybody)
[08:39] <didrocks> thanks for the info, I will avoid to do this :)
[08:39] <didrocks> lut crevette
[08:43] <seb128_> lut crevette
[08:43] <seb128_> hey mvo MacSlow
[08:44] <MacSlow> salut seb128_, mvo, pitti
[08:44] <MacSlow> seb128_, this time your tail is showing ;)
[08:44] <MacSlow> seb128_, ISP problems?
[08:45] <seb128_> MacSlow: yeah, don't try to restart dbus or you could get the same ;-)
[08:45] <seb128_> it closed my session and sent me back to gdm with no mouse or keyboard
[08:45] <mvo> hey seb128_, MacSlow
[08:46] <MacSlow> seb128_, outch
[08:55] <davmor2> crevette: Bluetooth didn't work with my dongle I'm afraid :(  I might try it out on my laptop latter today.  bug 268502 is the one for bt not working.  Which is strange because it worked fine with intrepid till beta which is when bluez4 went in
[08:58] <crevette> davmor2, bluez 4 has some border effect, but I wanted to know if there is no regression between 4.30 and 4.32 ?
[08:59] <crevette> salut seb128_ , and davmor2
[09:00] <davmor2> crevette: Like I say I'll try it out on my laptop latter which has bluetooth working in intrepid
[09:03]  * mvo takes the cheese sponsoring
[09:12]  * crevette wins 600 points of karma in 1 day
[09:13] <crevette> davmor2, when yoy says your dongle didn't work, could you ellaborate? or open a bug
[09:20] <davmor2> crevette: 268502 is the bug I wrote one and it got tied into that one :)
[09:21] <davmor2> It's a big bug too lots of people adding themselves to it
[10:02] <mvo> seb128: what should I do with something like bug #333422 ? it looks like a gtk theme engine issue to me
[10:09] <seb128> mvo: I've no real clues about those
[10:09] <seb128> I tend to either send those upstream or ask a valgrind log
[10:09] <seb128> what make you think that's a theme issue?
[10:16] <mvo> seb128: nothing really, just gut feeling
[10:16] <seb128> mvo: we have gtk hackers now in the dx team, maybe try asking brasch when he's around?
[10:16] <mvo> seb128: sounds good, will do
[10:17] <seb128> I'm interested to know how to read those crashes too
[10:17] <huats> morning everyone
[10:19] <seb128> lut huats
[10:20] <huats> hey seb128
[10:20] <seb128> huats: comment ca va ?
[10:20] <huats> seb128: bof
[10:20] <huats> :(
[10:21] <huats> seb128: I think I am on the good way to be better... but for the moment I just "think" that.... I hope I ill feel it too sooon :)
[10:21] <seb128> oh :-(
[10:21] <huats> how are you ?
[10:21] <seb128> good thank you
[10:22] <huats> and I have dozens of things to do and it is hard tostay a bit focussed...
[10:22] <huats> but I will !
[10:23] <seb128> good luck ;-)
[11:08] <seb128> ArneGoetje: hi, do you know why indicator-applet is not translatable on launchpad?
[11:09] <seb128> ArneGoetje: is the template waiting for moderation or something?
[11:25] <asac> soren: i would think so. the other reason might be that rosetta seems to have issues - e.g. i got like 200 mails over night for network-manager translation imports (and also a bunch of failed ones), which i never got before
[11:25] <asac> soren: that was for seb ;)
[11:39] <eeejay> bug 329245
[11:41] <eeejay> bug 329296
[11:45] <seb128> eeejay: what about those?
[11:46] <eeejay> seb128: just getting the URL :) not used lp URL formats
[11:46] <seb128> please don't abuse the channel for that
[11:47] <eeejay> seb128: sorry
[11:47] <seb128> that's ok, just don't do it again ;-)
[11:51] <asac> 12:25 < asac> soren: i would think so. the other reason might be that rosetta seems to have issues -  e.g. i got like 200 mails over night for network-manager translation imports (and also a  bunch of failed ones), which i never got before
[11:51] <asac> :)=
[11:51] <asac> seb128: ^^
[11:51] <asac> that was for you, when you were away
[11:52] <asac> topic: moderation
[11:52] <seb128> asac: yes, there is some bugs open about that, that's a wanted change (the emails one)
[11:53] <seb128> asac: they will stop sending success import emails
[11:53] <seb128> asac: do you know where we can see a filtered import queue?
[11:53] <seb128> the current one has almost 50000 entries
[11:55] <asac> seb128: heh :) ... no sorry. i always looked after uploading
[11:55] <asac> so they were still on top
[12:03] <Ng> mvo: thanks for applying the patch from bug 328164 :)
[12:19] <asac> pitti irc proxy down?
[12:29] <asac> seb128: for translation errors. i would really prefer that launchpad batches the failed imports and sends a digested mail every 24 hours or so
[12:30] <seb128> asac: talk to danilo ;-)
[12:30] <asac> i will tell that jtv when he is back
[12:30] <asac> ah ok
[12:30] <asac> or him
[12:30] <seb128> asac: they plan to do a summary on launchpad too apparently
[12:30] <asac> seb128: yeah. so a reminder mail like: "you have translation import issues pending" would be great
[12:31] <didrocks> seing as I get spammed with no many packages, I can't imagine what it can be for you
[12:31] <seb128> didrocks: I got over 6000 emails from rosetta since monday
[12:35] <didrocks> seb128: not bad ^^ I only got 600 ;)
[12:49] <fta2> seb128, my desktop is broken after the last upgrade + reboot. gdm is fine then, just a black screen, nothing on it. it seems gnome-session is not starting anything, or even, is not there
[12:50] <seb128> fta2: you are the first to have a such issue, log into a non-GNOME session and run gnome-session by hand and see what's going on?
[12:51] <fta2> ok, thanks. will try that after a meeting.
[13:20] <ArneGoetje> seb128: indicator-applet is still in the import queue and hasn't been approved yet. I'm waiting for a fix to land in Rosetta.
[13:20] <seb128> ArneGoetje: ok, can you make sure it will be approved?
[13:21] <ArneGoetje> seb128: yes
[13:21] <seb128> thanks
[13:32]  * kenvandine_wk wonders why pidgin wants to use 100% of my cpu today
[14:06] <pitti> hey tedg
[14:06] <tedg> pitti: Good morning
[14:09] <kenvandine> hey tedg
[14:10] <seb128> hello tedg kenvandine
[14:10] <kenvandine> tedg: fusa isn't happy with me
[14:10] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:10] <tedg> Good morning kenvandine and seb128
[14:10] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[14:10] <tedg> kenvandine, oh, no!  What's unhappy?
[14:10] <kenvandine> tedg: testing fusa from your ppa
[14:10] <kenvandine> well 2 things
[14:10] <kenvandine> i am not getting the policykit dialog on restart with 2 users logged in
[14:10] <kenvandine> and
[14:10] <kenvandine> user switching is only working sometimes...
[14:11] <kenvandine> seems to be X related
[14:11] <tedg> kenvandine, I'm sure those are PolicyKit and GDM bugs ;)
[14:11] <kenvandine> i do get the logout/restart/shutdown confirmation dialogs though
[14:11] <kenvandine> even the restart required one
[14:11] <tedg> Okay, so that means that when we query, we're not seeing that you need to authenticate.
[14:12] <kenvandine> just not prompted to authorize restart with more than one user logged in
[14:12] <tedg> And, if you're not getting the dialogs, it seems you don't.
[14:12] <kenvandine> right :)
[14:12] <tedg> Okay, I know nothing about PolicyKit, that's a pitti question :)
[14:12] <kenvandine> right now i am stuck waiting for user switching to fail
[14:12] <tedg> But, it's good to know that it works when PolicyKit is configured differently ;)
[14:12] <kenvandine> after a few minutes it fails and lets me back in as me :)
[14:13] <seb128> tedg: are you the indicator-applet maintainer? ;-)
[14:13] <tedg> seb128: Upstream ;)
[14:13] <tedg> seb128: What's up?
[14:13] <seb128> tedg: sometime the icon vanish and it doesn't list either evolution nor pidgin, I need to restart the app to get those there
[14:13] <seb128> tedg: I didn't figure what trigger that yet, but what debug info would be useful?
[14:14] <seb128> ie the indicator is still there but doesn't see evolution or pidgin running
[14:14] <tedg> seb128: Yeah, if you can figure something out there.  I'll look at it some more.
[14:14] <seb128> any debug hint?
[14:14] <tedg> seb128: I've had a case where the indicator (ping) doesn't go away in some cases... I'm looking at tracking that down today.
[14:15] <seb128> ok
[14:15] <tedg> seb128: If you compile it from source, there's a "test/listen-and-print" program, which acts like a listener on the bus.
[14:15] <tedg> I was thinking about putting that as an example or something.  But, it's compiled code.
[14:15] <tedg> Should that be a separate package?
[14:16] <seb128> tedg: if that's useful for debugging just pust it as an example in the indicator-applet binary
[14:16] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: how much do you know about the user  switching stuff?
[14:16] <seb128> tedg: we have some softwares already for that, ie /usr/lib/nautilus-cd-burner/list_cddrives
[14:16] <tedg> seb128: Okay, in like $(libexec)?
[14:17] <seb128> already *doing* that
[14:17] <seb128> tedg: yes
[14:17] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: http://pastebin.com/m2ce92b51
[14:17] <kenvandine_wk> ConsoleKit thinks i am logged in twice... i guess i probably am :)
[14:17] <kenvandine_wk> i logged in as ken, then switched to test, then switched back to ken
[14:17] <tedg> seb128: Okay, will do, I think that'd be helpful.  Maybe I'll figure out an apport hook too :)
[14:17] <kenvandine_wk> looks like switching back to ken actually gave me a new login session
[14:18] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: one of those is a ssh session
[14:18] <kenvandine_wk> oh... duh!
[14:18] <kenvandine_wk> interesting
[14:18] <tedg> kenvandine, oh, that's the problem.  We only support logging in as "ken-thinks-ubuntu-is-better-than-forsight" ;)
[14:18] <kenvandine_wk> i didn't think you got that from ssh
[14:18] <kenvandine_wk> good
[14:18] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: the other session is ssh
[14:18] <seb128> "#
[14:18] <seb128>         remote-host-name = 'dhcp248.home.vandine.org'"
[14:18] <kenvandine_wk> hahaha
[14:18] <kenvandine_wk> i didn't read close enough
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> tedg: yeah... and on foresight that session isn't listed in CK
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> ok, good
[14:19] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: by default, CK allows local users to shut down if there's just a single session, and asks for auth if there are multiple
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> well i can't switch again to test :/
[14:19] <pitti> it's debatable if that's a feature or a bug
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: well... i had the test user and the ken user logged into gnome at the same time
[14:19] <kenvandine_wk> and it didn't give me the PK dialog
[14:20] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: new login sesssion when switching back> sounds like X.org crashed, can you look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old?
[14:20] <kenvandine_wk> well, i used fusa to switch back and forth
[14:20] <kenvandine_wk> now i can't switch again
[14:20] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[14:21] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: doesn't look like a failure
[14:21] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: hm; is your session still on another VT then?
[14:21] <pitti> check "who"
[14:21] <kenvandine_wk> no, i actually did logout
[14:22] <pitti> ah, ok
[14:22] <kenvandine_wk> now i can't get both users logged in again :)
[14:22] <pitti> I thought you logged in as ken, then as test, and switched back to "ken", and found a new login screen instead of your existign session
[14:22] <kenvandine_wk> well... i did actually
[14:22] <kenvandine_wk> not sure how that works in ubuntu
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> should i get a unlock dialog or gdm screen on switching back?
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> in foresight i get the unlock dialog, but we use the newer gdm
[14:23] <kenvandine_wk> in this case i got the gdm login screen... so maybe switching users actually logged me out of the other session
[14:24]  * kenvandine_wk should have opened some apps to verify the session was the same :)
[14:26] <kenvandine> [    1.769235] (EE) intel(0): Failed to initialize kernel memory manager
[14:26] <kenvandine> in Xorg.20.log
[14:26] <kenvandine> while switching...  i wonder if that is the failure
[14:26]  * kenvandine tests with vesa to rule out drivers
[14:28] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:28] <kenvandine> good morning
[14:28] <rickspencer3> morning kenvandine
[14:28] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[14:29] <rickspencer3> hey hey
[14:29] <pitti> kenvandine: yes, on switching back you should get gnome-screensaver lock dialog
[14:29] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:29] <pitti> kenvandine: seems like it; as I said, this sounds like an X.org crash
[14:30] <kenvandine> pitti: ok... working much better with vesa :)
[14:30] <kenvandine> good
[14:30] <kenvandine> tedg: now i am getting the PolicyKit dialog too
[14:30] <kenvandine> so looks great
[14:30] <rickspencer3> seb128: hope your doing well today. Been a lot of change mails with your name associated this week!
[14:31] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, so you didn't really have two sessions any more, because the first one crashed :)
[14:31] <seb128> rickspencer3: yes, a bit tired, new GNOME weeks are always a bit of a rush until wednesday then it's cool
[14:31] <pitti> kenvandine: so it seems to come together
[14:31] <seb128> I'm doing some bug triage today ;-)
[14:31] <pitti> seb128: heh, me too
[14:31]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[14:31] <kenvandine> pitti: yup... damn xorg drivers!
[14:31] <pitti> after-UIF brings some time for turning to bugs
[14:31] <seb128> pitti: gnome-mount question for you
[14:32] <pitti> seb128: got about 70 apport bugs triaged today
[14:32] <pitti> seb128: shoot
[14:32] <tedg> kenvandine: Woot!  Cool.
[14:32] <seb128> pitti: if you put a data CD in your drive, unmount it (don't eject but unmount) then run gnome-mount -e -v -b -d <device>
[14:32] <kenvandine> tedg: so kick ass work on the fusa stuff... looks really nice
[14:32] <seb128> pitti: do you get an ugly error dialog too?
[14:32]  * kenvandine loves the transparency in the confirmation dialogs :)
[14:32]  * pitti finds a CD
[14:32] <tedg> kenvandine: Heh, just followed mpt's spec ;)
[14:33] <pitti> $ gnome-eject -vbd /dev/sr0
[14:33] <pitti> gnome-mount 0.8
[14:33] <pitti> ** (gnome-eject:12970): DEBUG: Ejecting /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_label_ctsw0902
[14:33] <pitti> Laufwerk /dev/sr0 befindet sich in /etc/fstab mit Einhängepunkt »/media/cdrom0«
[14:33] <pitti> /dev/sr0 wurde ausgeworfen (durch /etc/fstab)
[14:33] <pitti> seb128: ^
[14:34] <pitti> seb128: no error message
[14:34] <pitti> seb128: shall I remove it from fstab?
[14:34] <seb128> pitti: you unmount it first right?
[14:34] <pitti> right
[14:34] <pitti> gnome-umount -vbd /dev/sr0
[14:34] <seb128> $ gnome-eject -vbd /dev/sr0
[14:34] <seb128> gnome-mount 0.8
[14:34] <seb128> ** (gnome-eject:20823): DEBUG: Ejecting /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_label_Ubuntu_8_10_i386
[14:34] <seb128> Device /dev/sr0 is in /etc/fstab with mount point "/media/cdrom"
[14:34] <seb128> ** Message: eject said error 256, stdout='', stderr='eject: tried to use `/media/cdrom0' as device name but it is no block device
[14:34] <seb128> eject: tried to use `/media/cdrom0' as device name but it is no block device
[14:35] <seb128> eject: unable to find or open device for: `/media/cdrom'
[14:35] <seb128>  
[14:35] <seb128> I get that
[14:35] <seb128> on my d630
[14:35] <seb128> and the CD doesn't get ejected
[14:35] <pitti> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    6 2009-02-08 21:22 cdrom -> cdrom0
[14:35] <pitti> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2009-02-08 21:22 cdrom0
[14:35] <seb128> if it's mounted eject works fine
[14:35] <pitti> ^ /media/
[14:35] <seb128> $ ls -ld /media/cdrom*
[14:35] <seb128> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    6 Oct 20  2007 /media/cdrom -> cdrom0
[14:35] <seb128> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 21  2008 /media/cdrom0
[14:35] <davidbarth> kenvandine: hey ken! are you testing ted's console kit patches?
[14:35] <pitti> seb128: looks fine
[14:36] <pitti> seb128: how does it call eject for you?
[14:36] <kenvandine> davidbarth: not consolekit, but fusa
[14:36] <kenvandine> yeah... works well :)
[14:36] <kenvandine> davidbarth: once i got past xorg crashing on user switching
[14:37] <seb128> pitti: [pid 20917] execve("/usr/bin/eject", ["eject", "/media/cdrom"], [/* 43 vars */] <unfinished ...>
[14:37] <pitti> pid 13136] execve("/usr/bin/eject", ["eject", "/media/cdrom0"], [/* 48 vars */]) = 0
[14:37] <seb128> $ eject /media/cdrom
[14:37] <seb128> eject: tried to use `/media/cdrom0' as device name but it is no block device
[14:37] <seb128> eject: unable to find or open device for: `/media/cdrom'
[14:37] <pitti> seb128: heh, nice timing
[14:37] <seb128> iz eject bog
[14:37] <pitti> $ grep cdrom /etc/fstab
[14:37] <pitti> /dev/scd0       /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec,utf8 0       0
[14:37] <seb128> $ grep cdrom /etc/fstab
[14:37] <seb128> /dev/scd0       /media/cdrom   udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec 0       0
[14:37] <pitti> a-haa
[14:37] <pitti> eject not resolving symlinks
[14:38] <seb128> bad eject! no cookie!
[14:38] <pitti> bad idea to have cd-rom in fstab in the first place
[14:38] <pitti> even scd0 is obsolete
[14:38] <pitti> it should be /dev/cdrom at least
[14:39] <seb128> I don't think I did that
[14:39] <seb128> I just installed $ubuntu-version and upgraded since
[14:39] <seb128> anyway thanks for the help debugging, I will fix my fstab
[14:40] <pitti> seb128: see #u-devel
[14:40] <pitti> it's not your bug, but reminded me of that hardcoded device name again
[14:51] <asac> rickspencer3: you being here meaning you are awake already?
[14:51] <asac> or should i rather come back in 1h ;)
[14:53] <rickspencer3> asac: this is not too early for me
[14:53] <asac> rickspencer3: good morning then.
[14:53] <rickspencer3> hehe
[14:53] <asac> rickspencer3: take a coffee and  look at your inbox :) ... mozillaaaaa
[14:53] <rickspencer3> asac: I saw
[14:53] <asac> rickspencer3: ah cool. i replied too
[14:54] <rickspencer3> I haven't replied yet
[14:54] <asac> with technical hat on ;)
[14:54] <rickspencer3> heh
[14:55] <asac> the change is not trivial ;)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> asac: I'm not sure what I think yet
[14:55] <rickspencer3> maybe my coffee hasn't soaked in yet
[14:55] <rickspencer3> I agree with your recommendation
[14:55] <asac> rickspencer3: yeah. take your time ;). i guess nobody expects you to answer at 5:30 ;)
[14:56] <asac> or was it 4:55 even?
[14:56] <rickspencer3> it's 6:56
[14:56] <rickspencer3> :)
[14:57] <rickspencer3> pitti: SteveA says that he has a camera which cheese doesn't see on Jaunty
[14:57] <rickspencer3> shall he log a bug?
[14:58]  * seb128 looks at the gnome-mount bug lists, over 80 bugs there, *shrug*
[14:58] <rickspencer3> ug
[15:00] <pitti> seb128: yeah, triaging that is on my todo list...
[15:00] <pitti> rickspencer3: erm, sure
[15:00] <seb128> pitti: I'm looking at some of those bugs now
[15:00] <pitti> rickspencer3: I just don't know whether I could help, I don't have a webcam, nor any experience with them
[15:00] <rickspencer3> pitti: I thought you were the guy who got all the cameras working
[15:00] <rickspencer3> not true?
[15:01] <pitti> rickspencer3: webcams? no
[15:01] <pitti> well, digicams I can deal with
[15:01] <rickspencer3> oookay
[15:01] <pitti> but in the "photo" sense
[15:02] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[15:03] <rickspencer3> so if an internal usb web cam doesn't work, this is a kernel issue, right? The kernel doesn't have drivers for it?
[15:06] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: most likely
[15:06] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: that's what I thought. I took care of it :) thanks
[15:06] <kenvandine_wk> :)
[15:07]  * kenvandine_wk just got is first webcam ever... this week :)
[15:15]  * pochu rofls at Keybuk's mail
[15:16] <kenvandine_wk> tedg: i am trying out pidgin again for irc... maybe the message indicator is enough to push me over the top :)
[15:16] <tedg> kenvandine_wk: That or the notifications.  ;)
[15:16] <kenvandine_wk> hehe
[15:16] <kenvandine> kenvandine_wk: test
[15:16] <tedg> Maybe we shouldn't port xchat, then as everyone moves to Pidgin the transition to Jabber will be easier :)
[15:17] <pochu> rickspencer3: libv4l and gstreamer are between cheese and the kernel too
[15:18] <rickspencer3> pochu: thanks
[15:19] <pochu> rickspencer3: bug 260918 must be the bug with more comments after #1 :)
[15:19] <kenvandine_wk> tedg: it is pretty damn nice to be able to close the window and stay in the channel :)
[15:19] <kenvandine_wk> i don't remember that before
[15:20] <kenvandine_wk> pochu: i got a libv4l error in the console when i ran cheese yesterday, with my gspca camera... but it still worked fine
[15:21] <kenvandine_wk> that's a long thread :)
[15:22] <pochu> indeed
[15:23] <pochu> in the end it was the kernel and libv4l's fault IIRC
[15:35] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: pochu: what package is right for such a bug? It is, in fact, a missing module which is available
[15:36] <huats> seb128: I wanted to upload a fixed version of anjuta in my ppa (2.25.902-0ubuntu2) to test build it there before putting it in the archives, but I get rejected by the ppa saying that there is already a version like that in jaunty. The thing is that https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anjuta does not list that version (the latest is the one that FTBFS 2.25.902-0ubuntu1). Any idea ?
[15:36] <seb128> huats: did you have this version in your ppa already?
[15:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: pochu: referring to web cam ^
[15:36] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: you mean he doesn't have the module installed?
[15:36] <huats> seb128: nope
[15:36] <kenvandine_wk> but it is availble?
[15:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I meant that the module is not in the Jaunty kernel
[15:37] <kenvandine_wk> right, but is it available as another package?
[15:37] <kenvandine_wk> or not packaged at all?
[15:38] <rickspencer3> it's not packages afaik
[15:38] <kenvandine_wk> so either against 'linux' requesting it get built as a module in the kernel by default or as a new package request
[15:38] <rickspencer3> tx
[15:38] <kenvandine_wk> is there a package request mechanism in LP?
[15:39] <kenvandine_wk> i guess against 'linux' for now... let them decide if it should be mainline :)
[15:40] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine_wk
[15:40] <kenvandine_wk> np
[15:44] <seb128> huats: so I don't know
[15:45] <huats> seb128: ok thanks anyway
[15:46] <seb128> huats: ask on #launchpad, usually that's because the version you try using has been published somewhere, your ppa or ubuntu
[15:46] <huats> seb128: ok
[15:47] <huats> I have started something else, but I will right after...
[15:47] <huats> thanks seb128
[15:47] <seb128> huats: https://edge.launchpad.net/~christophe.sauthier/+archive/ppa/+build/891847
[15:47] <seb128> huats: you did upload a such version yesterday apparently
[15:47] <huats> seb128: but I have removed it...
[15:47] <huats> so it shouldn't be a problem I guess...
[15:47] <seb128> huats: yes, but it has been published you can't re-use it
[15:48] <seb128> huats: that's why I asked if you did use it already
[15:48] <seb128> you said "no"
[15:48] <huats> honnnestly I don't remember all the things I did yesterday (thanks to fever and my brain which sometimes forget stuffs...)
[15:48] <huats> :)
[15:49] <huats> seb128: from my understanding since it was removed from the ppa, it was free to be used...
[15:49] <seb128> wrong understanding
[15:49] <huats> it is indeed...
[15:50] <seb128> it would mean you could reupload a version people already have installed and they would not get the changes
[15:50] <huats> seb128: I see the idea...
[15:50] <huats> I was not looking at my ppa to distribute stuffs, but as a building mechanism...
[15:53] <davmor2> Guys I seem to be having an issue using with Hardware Drivers today.  It's recognised the Nvidia gfx card and 180 version is selected.  Policykit (I'm guessing) requests password the bar scans left and right a couple of times and then stops and nothing else happens
[15:53] <seb128> huats: use buildn versions then ;-)
[15:56] <didrocks> seb128: I created a branch for gtkmm2.4 but apparently, it wasn't published in ~ubuntu-desktop because we don't derivate too much. Is this still valid?
[15:56] <seb128> didrocks: yes
[15:56] <seb128> didrocks: we will sync when they package the new version
[15:57] <didrocks> seb128: oki
[15:57] <didrocks> so, let's try to build :)
[16:00] <didrocks> seb128: do I have to take some particular actions: "Added interfaces, but we can't use them yet without breaking ABI: Activatable, Orientation."?
[16:01] <seb128> didrocks: I don't think so
[16:01] <didrocks> seb128: like libeel2, let's say they don't assure ABI stability? :)
[16:02] <seb128> they said they didn't change because they don't want to break abi no?
[16:03] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, from what I understand is that they added interfaces which can't be use because it will break ABI. I didn't build it still and have to check this myself
[16:03] <didrocks> (what I will do in a minute, didn't have the time before, I worked today :))
[16:03] <seb128> no hurry ;-)
[16:16] <seb128> pedro_: why did you reopen bug #338211?
[16:47] <fta2> seb128, i'm back. i think my gnome-session issue is wider than just gnome. even in a console, everything is slow or unresponsive
[16:47] <seb128> fta2: ok
[16:50] <pedro_> seb128: grgr thought i was marked it as wishlist , didn't see you closed it before, I've closed it, thanks you
[16:50] <seb128> pedro_: ok, you probably set it as wishlist while I was marking wishlist and closing it, which explain why the only change I got was the status change to new
[16:51] <pedro_> seb128: yep, didn't bugzilla show you a warning for such things?
[16:51] <pedro_> thought i've seen something like that
[16:52]  * pedro_ starts to search in malone bugs
[16:52] <seb128> pedro_: yes, it display a "the page changed" warning and ask if you want to submit anyway
[16:56] <fta2> seb128, found the culprit: sysklogd. I just stopped it, X died, gdm came back and now it's all fine.
[16:57] <fta2> strangest thing ever :P
[16:58] <crevette> seb128, the real message is "MID-AIR COLLISION" on bgo :)
[16:58] <seb128> crevette: yeah
[16:58]  * crevette is used to that message
[16:58] <crevette> :)
[16:58] <seb128> fta2: indeed quite strange
[16:58]  * seb128 is not, he's usually faster that other people to comment ;-)
[16:58] <seb128> just joking ;-)
[16:59] <crevette> :)
[16:59] <pedro_> is already reported: bug 28459
[17:09] <fta2> huats, are you still working python-webkitgtk?
[17:09] <huats> fta2: I am
[17:09] <huats> I am about to put it tonight
[17:09] <huats> fta2 why ?
[17:09] <fta2> huats, ok, great :)
[17:10] <huats> fta2: I just need a final test and I will upload it
[17:10] <fta2> huats, because we need it for gwibber
[17:10] <huats> o
[17:10] <huats> k
[17:10] <huats> I have read that
[17:10] <huats> you can count on it tonight I think
[17:10] <fta2> excellent, thanks
[17:10] <huats> sorry for the LONG delay...
[17:12] <fta2> the flow of dents on identi.ca decreased, i assume most were using gwibber on jaunty ;)
[17:21] <davmor2> tseliot: 20090305.1 iso image is playing up with Jockey
[17:22] <tseliot> davmor2: did you file a bug report about it?
[17:23] <davmor2> tseliot: I'm still trying to track down the issue a bit more before I do.  Does jockey have a log at all?
[17:23] <tseliot> davmor2: yes, if you launch its backend in debugging mode
[17:23] <tseliot> pitti: ^^
[17:27] <davmor2> tseliot: what the command for debugging mode please
[17:30] <fta2> seb128, the issue with sysklokg blocking the desktop was caused by libnss-mdns. This was added as a dep of google-earth 5.
[17:30]  * asac hugs huats for fixing webkit python ;)
[17:30] <fta2> -sysklokg+sysklogd
[17:31] <huats> asac: thanks :)
[17:31] <huats> asac: on the otherside it is my fault if it is not yet here :)
[17:32] <seb128> fta2: NOTUBUNTU
[17:32] <seb128> or at least google earth is not ;-)
[17:32] <fta2> seb128, the installer is
[17:32] <fta2> seb128, it's even my fault, iirc
[17:35] <tseliot> davmor2: try with:
[17:35] <tseliot> sudo killall jockey-backend
[17:35] <tseliot> sudo /usr/share/jockey/jockey-backend --debug -l /tmp/jockey.log &
[17:35] <davmor2> tseliot: I'll try it now
[17:35] <tseliot> davmor2: then run jockey-gtk or jockey-kde , reproduce the problem, and get the log
[17:37] <asac> huats: do you have an identi.ca acount? or is that someone else?
[17:38] <davmor2> tseliot: okay that's weird with the debuging on it's working I'll have a quick look at the log anyway
[17:39] <tseliot> ok
[17:39] <huats> asac: I think I have one, but I don't think I have ever used it...
[17:40] <huats> (I might have created it during last UDS)
[17:40] <asac> huats: yeah. its huats
[17:40] <asac> and its empty ;)
[17:40] <asac> huats: good idea to try gwibber ;)
[17:40] <huats> ;)
[17:40] <huats> I will then :)
[17:40] <asac> huats: when it works just push a dent and include !gwibber in your line so the gwibber fangroup will know ;)
[17:41] <huats> ok, I will and you enjoy the fresh air :)
[17:41] <asac> lol ;)
[17:41] <asac> right. out for few
[17:48] <fta2> asac, is bzr bd still broken /w python 2.6?
[17:49] <davmor2> tseliot: It crashed at 80%  the log is on bug 338340
[17:51] <tseliot> davmor2: ok, thanks for reporting I'll add it to my todo list
[17:52] <davmor2> np's
[17:52] <seb128> pitti: ok, some hours later the gnome-mount list is down to 63 bugs and 19 new ;-)
[17:52]  * pitti hugs seb128, you rock
[17:53] <seb128> pitti: you are still welcome to look through the NEW bugs if you want, I let some of the lukfs or encrypted device issues since I've no clue about those
[17:53]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[17:53] <pitti> I killed almost all untriaged hal-info and apport bugs
[17:53] <pitti> seb128: yeah, I'll still go through them
[17:53] <seb128> policykit has some bugs untriaged too, but not so much, would perhaps deserve a look too since getting credential to do actions is important
[17:54] <pitti> yeah, and consolekit
[18:07] <asac> fta2: yesterday it was broken, yes.
[18:07] <asac> james_w: ^^ ?
[18:10] <seb128> asac, fta2: bzr-buildpackage you mean? the fixed version has been synced today
[18:12] <asac> seb128: yeah. bzr builddeb (i guess its used by bzr.-buildpacakge)
[18:13] <asac> james_w: does this version also reintroduce my precious --export-upstream?
[18:13] <asac> (i had to downgrage to intrepid version again to do the latest NM round)
[18:13] <asac> hmm not in changelog
[18:13]  * asac stays on hold ;)
[18:14] <asac> james_w: i know that you agreed to reintroduce it soon, but in general i would like to ask you to not just drop parameters, but rather keep them with a deprecatd warning at least for a cycle
[18:15] <asac> james_w: if there is a senseful change its ok, but i just want some time to reorganize branches to fit the new approach ;)
[18:15] <asac> and deprecation is the right way to do that imo
[19:42]  * mpt DoSes himself with notification-daemon
[19:43] <mpt> notify-send "foo" "bar" -i some-image-larger-than-your-screen.png
[19:47] <kenvandine_wk> huats: have you done anything with the python-webkitgtk update?
[19:47] <kenvandine_wk> bug 328576
[19:48] <huats> kenvandine_wk: I am doing right now
[19:48] <kenvandine_wk> huats: awesome
[19:48]  * kenvandine_wk misses gwibber
[19:50] <asac> AOL
[19:51] <asac> kenvandine_wk: on identi.ca your small icon is still broken.
[19:51] <asac> you are the last on my list ;)
[19:51] <asac> kenvandine_wk: use png not jpeg is the fix i think (if i didnt tell you yet)
[19:52] <kenvandine_wk> asac: yeah... been meaning to fix that
[19:53] <asac> kenvandine_wk: no problem. i actually forgot if i told you ;)
[19:53] <kenvandine_wk> asac: the actual problem was i messed with it the week their image crap was hosed :)
[19:53] <kenvandine_wk> so it got mangled or something
[19:53] <kenvandine_wk> and i never went back :)
[20:07] <huats> kenvandine I am doing a last test (of an upgrade) and then I upload the python-webkitgtk update
[20:18] <kenvandine_wk> huats: awesome
[20:41] <tedg> Could someone please sponsor bug 283095 ?  It's gotten an ack from chrisccoulson and kenvandine saying it works for them.
[20:45] <kenvandine_wk> yes... someone please :)
[20:50] <kenvandine_wk> hey seb128
[20:50] <seb128> good evening kenvandine_wk
[21:13] <tedg> Uhm, gnome-session has written 2 GB of logs to /var/log/daemon.log on my system.  Anyone else seeing that?
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> i'm seeing a lot of messages, but not on that scale
[21:15]  * kenvandine_wk looks
[21:15] <tedg> I'm getting about 1 MB/minute
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> tedg - i just looked at the code, and it's configured for debug by default
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> probably should build without really
[21:16] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: it does that by default for odd numbered versions
[21:16] <kenvandine_wk> mine is 1.7M
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i remember that last cycle
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> so that will disappear once 2.26 lands;)
[21:16] <kenvandine_wk> i think i have a patch for that buried from years ago
[21:16] <kenvandine_wk> yeah :)
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> 2GB is excessive though
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> what is being logged tedg?
[21:18] <tedg> It's constantly restarting vino-server.  Like I can't kill it fast enough.
[21:19]  * kenvandine_wk lives on the edge and enables vino
[21:20] <seb128> ah ah
[21:21] <tedg> Hmm, I think that one vino-server went AWOL, and then the others all detected it and exited immediately.  But, gnome-session saw that as it dying, and restarted it.
[21:21] <seb128> that's similar to the nautilus no background issue
[21:21] <seb128> nautilus starts, has nothing to do and exit
[21:21] <seb128> gnome-session goes, hum nautilus exited it should be restarted
[21:21] <seb128> nautilus starts, has nothing to do and exit
[21:21] <seb128> etc
[21:21] <seb128> etc
[21:21] <seb128> etc
[21:22] <tedg> Hmm, gnome-session is broken... where have I heard that before :)
[21:22] <seb128> I blame vuntz for that ;-)
[21:22] <kenvandine_wk> tedg: yeah, fine here... enabling it doesn't create much noise
[21:22] <kenvandine_wk> tedg: lies!
[21:22] <seb128> vuntz: it's getting late but I'm wondering if that should be a blocker issue for 2.26
[21:23] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: is it too late for you to sponsor tedg's fusa patches?
[21:23] <kenvandine_wk> bug 283095
[21:28] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: no, let me have a look
[21:29] <kenvandine_wk> thx
[21:33] <seb128> tedg: the photos ratio in the notify-osd bubble when people go online is wrong, is that a known issue?
[21:36] <kenvandine_wk> tedg: that dropped messages bug is more noticable now that i have moved to using pidgin for irc... but when it works i LOVE getting my messages with the indicator
[21:42] <huats> asac: python-webkitgtk uploaded
[21:43] <huats> but I cannot get gwibber work (problem related to gnome_keyring I think on my vm....)
[21:43] <huats> I have to go
[21:43] <huats> talk to you tomorrow
[21:45] <tedg> seb128: Yes, design teams likes square.  I find it annoying too.
[21:46] <tedg> kenvandine_wk: Hmm, have too look at that more.
[21:46] <seb128> tedg: well it's clearly buggy the ratio is not good
[21:46] <seb128> tedg: is that pidgin-notify or notify-osd buggy?
[21:47] <asac> seb128: iirc i saw comments in notify-osd saying "XXX: images should have a better ratio" ... or something
[21:47] <asac> seb128: bubble.c:		/* TODO: improve scaling for non-square pixmaps */
[21:48] <seb128> ok, notify-osd then
[21:50] <seb128> brb trying fusa update
[21:54] <seb128> tedg: good work ;-)
[21:55] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: mind if itake bug 86796?
[21:55] <kenvandine_wk> uses quilt... which i know nothing about yet :)
[21:55] <chrisccoulson> quilt is easy ;)
[21:55] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: oh feel free
[21:55] <seb128> thanks
[21:55] <kenvandine_wk> np
[21:55] <kenvandine_wk> chrisccoulson: good :)
[21:55] <seb128> there is a wiki page about patch systems which is great
[21:55] <kenvandine_wk> yeah
[21:55] <seb128> an ubuntu openweek class by pitti
[21:56] <kenvandine_wk> just haven't had a chance to use it yet :)
[21:56] <seb128> quilt is the most sucking patch system we have imho
[21:56] <seb128> it's powerful but just so annoying to use for little win in 99% of the cases
[21:57] <LaserJock> +1
[21:57] <chrisccoulson> i'm doing a patch with quilt at the moment, and i just forgot the "quilt refresh"
[21:58] <tedg> seb128: Thanks, I just got the status change message (trying to catch up on e-mail after the UI Freeze sprint :) )
[22:00] <seb128> tedg: I triaged the indicator-applet ubuntu bugs this morning, you should subscribe to those btw ;-)
[22:01] <tedg> Yeah, focusing on real bugs now that UI ones are done.  (hopefully)
[22:01]  * tedg is guessing he'll have some UIEs to write after meeting with Mark next week :-/
[22:04] <seb128> tedg: bug #338483
[22:06] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: done... that was a very simple use case for quilt
[22:06] <tedg> seb128: commented :)
[22:07] <seb128> tedg: thanks, not sure if I should set the settings since that's an upstream bug on notify-osd, I will let mirco do that
[22:07] <didrocks> seb128: bugs #338416 and #338481 :)
[22:07] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: good ;-)
[22:07] <seb128> didrocks: hello, thanks!
[22:07] <didrocks> seb128: hello, been very busy today :)
[22:07] <seb128> me too
[22:07] <seb128> like every day ... ;-)
[22:08] <seb128> didrocks: your tasks for tomorrow or this weekend are to sponsor the universe desktopish updates waiting
[22:08] <seb128> let's use your uploads right a bit ;-)
[22:08] <didrocks> seb128: yep: #337914 and #337911 only?
[22:09] <seb128> didrocks: well, for desktop yes but feel free to clean other things if you want or help them on the python2.6 transition if you are bored or to enjoy the nice weather or something ;-)
[22:10] <didrocks> seb128: I will see. I have also my book to prepare for jaunty. Will see what inspire me on the moment :)
[22:10] <didrocks> have a good night and see you tomorrow!
[22:10] <seb128> 'night
[22:10] <seb128> doh you didn't use bzr
[22:10] <seb128> I got used to it for reviews ;-)
[22:10] <didrocks> seb128: no, you told me to not use bzr?
[22:11] <seb128> I've to download the tarball myself now ;-)
[22:11] <didrocks> seb128: oh I can promote it
[22:11] <didrocks> I have done it in bzr
[22:11] <didrocks> but didn't push into my branch
[22:11] <didrocks> let me a second
[22:11] <seb128> didrocks: well we don't publish in bzr, you can still use a temporary bzr for review and upload though ;-)
[22:13] <didrocks> seb128: done, have fun with bzr :)
[22:13] <seb128> thanks
[22:13] <seb128> good night
[22:13] <didrocks> thanks, you too
[22:29] <dobey> hrmm
[22:29] <dobey> who's updating packages?
[22:30] <seb128> everybody there?
[22:31] <dobey> seb128: i'm just wondering if someone can update icon-naming-utils and tango-icon-theme to 0.8.90 :)
[22:32] <seb128> I just mailed the debian maintainer about i-n-u this afternoon since we are on sync on debian
[22:32] <seb128> he will update on monday and we will sync then
[22:32] <seb128> we can probably find somebody to update t-i-t ;-)
[22:32] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: ^ interesting to have a look to this one?
[22:41] <dobey> seb128: cool. i'm going to try and get jimmac to fix one small thing and then make another gnome-icon-theme release, but g-i-t and t-i-t need to be built against the new i-n-u also, to fix some other bugs that are on lp, since it adds some more symlinks and such :)
[22:41] <seb128> dobey: right, I will make sure that happens before jaunty
[22:41] <seb128> if you roll a tarball for GNOME 2.26 that should be alright
[22:42] <seb128> we will get the new i-n-u next week
[22:42] <seb128> which is before 2.26
[22:43] <dobey> seb128: yeah, there will definitely be a 2.26.0 for gnome
[22:43] <dobey> i just haven't done a .92 yet
[23:17] <walters> hey, does anyone have access to debian's arm/m68k builders who could test something for me?
[23:18] <walters> basically i want to close http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=563681
[23:25] <lajjr> walters do you have a patch??
[23:26] <walters> lajjr: basically git clone http://git.gnome.org/gobject-introspection and toss the tarball at the build system
[23:27] <walters> or hmmm
[23:27]  * walters goes to look up the working public git url
[23:27] <walters> git://git.gnome.org/gobject-introspection
[23:34] <lajjr> oh ok..
[23:36] <lajjr> if you have a patch put it up on gnome bug they like it when they get fixed.