[00:00] <imfluxible> only i used other words
[00:00] <imfluxible> you know, shorter words
[00:00] <imfluxible> four letters or less
[00:01] <imfluxible> in the spirit of scrabble
[00:01] <charlie-tca> Well, I did too, sort of, at least they came out of my mouth
[00:02] <imfluxible> brb (i shall return)
[00:03] <durt> tried to register on the pyscrabble server, now I have 3 unresponsive windows.
[00:04] <charlie-tca> how did you get past the login window?
[00:04] <durt> correction now it's 'error unresponsive server'
[00:04] <durt> trying the bacasoft server
[00:06] <durt> not past the login window
[00:06] <charlie-tca> If you move the Find a Server window, there is another one hidden
[00:07] <charlie-tca> That is the one imfluxible can't get past
[00:07] <charlie-tca> I guess I'm doing better. I got it to lock up
[00:08] <durt> I see it, I just assumed you needed to register on a server before you could login
[00:08] <durt> gonna google for some docs.
[00:10] <imfluxible> i back.  arrrrggggghhhhh.
[00:11] <imfluxible> ya, i also couldn't figure out if you 'register' or 'add' first
[00:11] <charlie-tca> it doesn work either way
[00:13] <dewp> hey guys :) i'd love to use both of my screens. i googled and found some suggestions to solve my problem, but some of them were to complicated for me and for others i need the catalyst control center, which i don't have (i don't know why, i installed the correct driver from amd/ati)........ is there another easy way to achive this?
[00:15] <imfluxible> charlie and durt, my friend justnsane1 just logged on to see if we make any progress with pyscrabble
[00:16] <justnsane1> hello
[00:17] <imfluxible> so you have a captive audience, waiting, breathlessly (55 points), patiently (40 points)
[00:24] <charlie-tca> Haven't given up, yet, downloading a file that might help
[00:24] <justnsane1> ok
[00:25] <durt> ya, i'm getting pyscrabble-server too :)
[00:25] <justnsane1> ok, Mike will be right back
[00:27] <durt> you guys do know that hasbro/mattel does vigorously defend infringements on the scrabble copyright. One of there best revenue generators.
[00:28] <durt> their*
[00:28] <justnsane1> I did not know
[00:29] <charlie-tca> Yes, I knew that
[00:29] <charlie-tca> That's why you see so many online variations of the name
[00:29] <dewp> night
[00:34] <imfluxible> justnsane1: that must have been a private msg to you, it din't show up on my screen
[00:34] <justnsane1> really, which one
[00:34] <imfluxible> so i'm none the wiser
[00:34] <justnsane1> your mom never called you sunny.
[00:35] <imfluxible> btw, i'm not mike, i'm imfluxible
[00:35] <charlie-tca> Okay, my conclusion is that there are no games to join, thus can't connect
[00:35] <justnsane1> oh ok
[00:35] <imfluxible> you must be new
[00:35] <imfluxible> hahahahahhahahahhahahhahahhaahahhaaaa
[00:35] <charlie-tca> back to cooking
[00:36] <imfluxible> durt, and we're not giving up on YOU
[00:37] <durt> guys download the server (pyscrabble-server) and read the docs and run your own.
[00:37] <imfluxible> charlie-tca: doesn't the administrator have the power to start games i thought i read
[00:38] <imfluxible> durt, so it worked for you?
[00:39] <imfluxible> charlie-tca: whats cooking, i'm hungry
[00:39] <durt> still trying, server needs configuration
[00:39] <imfluxible> durt, uh-oh, sounds like it may get over my head
[00:40] <justnsane1> it's definetly over mine..:-)
[00:40] <imfluxible> justnsane1: open synaptic, and download the server and lets see
[00:41] <imfluxible> pyscrabble-server
[00:42]  * zoredache wonders if everyone is working to hard to make scrable work...
[00:42] <zoredache> have you consider simply looking for a online web-based version of scrable?
[00:43] <durt> zoredache: but there's no challenge.
[00:43]  * imfluxible would go to any lengths
[00:43] <justnsane1> imfluxible, i downloaded the server, but got that error message then did what u told me to do.
[00:44] <imfluxible> it sounds as if with the server we will become an online version
[00:45] <imfluxible> justnsane1: he said to read the docs, but i don't know where they are
[00:45] <justnsane1> me either
[00:45] <zoredache> usually you can start looking in /usr/share/doc/applicationname
[00:46] <zoredache> there should be at least a README file that points you at other docs and web site
[00:46] <imfluxible> justnsane1: so, goto applications, accessories, and see if you have a file browser in the list
[00:47] <justnsane1> no
[00:47] <imfluxible> i cant remember if we downloaded Thunar?
[00:47] <justnsane1> dont think so
[00:47] <imfluxible> or maybe there is another one installed by default?
[00:48] <PKodon> imfluxible: You running Xubuntu?
[00:48] <imfluxible> anybody know what file browser comes with ubuntu 8.10
[00:49] <imfluxible> nope, not on this machine, on another running xubuntu; this one running fluxbuntu
[00:49] <justnsane1> i just downloaded Thunar
[00:50] <imfluxible> ok, see if it appears in your menu under accessories now
[00:50] <PKodon> imfluxible: What is fluxbuntu based on (ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu)?
[00:50] <justnsane1> yes
[00:50] <imfluxible> ummmm, ubuntu i guess, homepage is fluxbuntu.org
[00:51] <imfluxible> its a very light install, about 300 mb
[00:51] <zoredache> it is based on flux
[00:51] <imfluxible> using fluxbox as window manager, i guess?
[00:51] <PKodon> I usually look in whatever package manager came with the system, list installed packages, and find which one is a file manager.
[00:52] <imfluxible> xubuntu was way too slow on this machine, i tried it
[00:52] <imfluxible> justnsane1: so you opened thunar?
[00:53] <justnsane1> no
[00:53] <justnsane1> i opened it, but what should I do?
[00:54] <imfluxible> open it and see if you can follow the path:  /usr/share/doc/pyscrabble
[00:55] <imfluxible> first look for usr, click on it, then 'share', click on it, then 'doc', click on it, hopefully find pyscrabble docs
[00:56] <imfluxible> durt, you making any progress
[00:58] <justnsane1> i clicked on all the above, then it says changelog.Debian.gz, then changelog.gz, then copyrite
[01:00] <imfluxible> hmmmm
[01:00] <imfluxible> but no file for pyscrabble docs?
[01:01] <justnsane1> no
[01:01] <PKodon> http://pyscrabble.sourceforge.net/?q=help
[01:02] <PKodon> It doesn't appear to come with docs.
[01:02] <PKodon> This is all the help I could find.
[01:02] <imfluxible> we'll look for it later i guess ... might as well see if durt manages to get it up and running first
[01:02] <PKodon> You could get the source and read that :)
[01:03] <imfluxible> but you should browse around thunar, and you'll start to get an idea of the organization of the filesystem
[01:03] <PKodon> Sorry, I know how frustrating it can be trying to get something to work right. I had to reinstall PC/OS twice before I got everything to work I wanted to work.
[01:04] <justnsane1> THANKS FOR YOUR HELP EVERYONE
[01:04] <imfluxible> just don't alter any files if you don't know what they are, that could cause problems
[01:04] <durt> sorry folks looks like I'd have to re-configure my firewall to get a server running.
[01:05] <imfluxible> bummer
[01:05] <imfluxible> PKodon: uhhhh, source code over my pay level ... level
[01:06] <imfluxible> justnsane1: don't shout
[01:06] <imfluxible> lol
[01:06] <imfluxible> nothing could ever be, just easy, huh
[01:07] <imfluxible> i was all excited about finding pyscrabble too
[01:08] <imfluxible> on to the next thing i guess ... thanks durt, charlie, and pkodon
[01:08] <justnsane1> its the only way i can read it, my eyes are shot
[01:08] <justnsane1> Sorry
[01:09]  * imfluxible likes it when theres someone more newbie than imfluxible
[01:09] <imfluxible> must be a 'power' thing
[01:09] <imfluxible> lol
[01:09] <PKodon> imfluxible: Hey, I resemble that remark!
[01:10]  * imfluxible off to brick and morterland
[01:10] <imfluxible> nite guys, thanx
[01:10] <PKodon> imfluxible: Okay, night.
[01:10] <imfluxible> roflmao
[02:35] <charlie-tca> Got any ps3 users here? I need to know if you have to install 'ps3-utils' after Xubuntu installed?
[02:41] <PKodon> charlie-tca: Wish I could help. BTW, mind if I ask you a question?
[02:41] <charlie-tca> go ahead
[02:42] <PKodon> charlie-tca: I don't know much about the PS-3, if you put xubuntu on it, can you turn it into a "real PC" (with a keyboard, mouse, wireless internet, printer/scanner, etc.)?
[02:43] <charlie-tca> I don't really know. I hear there is only 1/2 the ram and hard drive available for an operating system
[02:43] <PKodon> Hmm.
[02:43] <charlie-tca> But the wireless should already be built in
[02:43] <PKodon> Really?
[02:44] <charlie-tca> keyboard and mouse should be apple, using firewire, I think
[02:44] <charlie-tca> I thought the PS3 had the wireless built in, so you can play games on line.
[02:44] <PKodon> Oh, one-button-mouse, keyboard with funny keys.
[02:45] <PKodon> Or doesn't Apple use the one-button mouse any more?
[02:45] <charlie-tca> doesn't apple have two buttons, now?
[02:45] <charlie-tca> I don't have one, myself
[02:45] <charlie-tca> I have no game machines.
[02:46] <PKodon> I'd love to see Sony turn the PS-3 platform into a real PC, with either MorphOS or some version of Linux. From what I've seen and heard, it'
[02:47] <PKodon> Bah! ... it's hardware is awesome, especially it's graphics hardware.
[02:47] <charlie-tca> I don't know that they would, since there money comes from the games they sell.
[02:47] <charlie-tca> The hardware has always been awesome.
[02:48] <charlie-tca> They had the most powerful graphics chip anywhere when the ps2 was introduced
[02:48] <PKodon> Yeah, I guess I can see that, but the PC really doesn't have anything that can touch it, for the price. I suppose they sell it so low-priced in the same way that cell phones are sold for so little - they know you're going to keep bringing in money to use it.
[02:49] <FaMott> Ok, How does one turn of compiz in XFCE?
[02:49] <charlie-tca> FaMott: You installed it and turned it on?
[02:49] <FaMott> Well, I think so , I ran it from my terminal, yeah.
[02:50] <charlie-tca> !compiz
[02:50] <charlie-tca> That is the best I can do with compiz
[02:51] <PKodon> I've been considering installing Compiz myself, after seeing it demoed by my nephew, but don't know if my machine would do it justice (P-4 w/500MB DDRR and GeForce3).
[02:52] <FaMott> Well yeah, I'm on a 1.6ghz Laptop with 1 GB of RAM, and anything video intensive makes it LAG.
[02:52] <FaMott> I want to figure out how to run flash stuff without the lag x.x;
[02:52] <charlie-tca> I don't use it, the effects are too hard on old eyes
[02:53] <FaMott> Yeah, I at least want to run Youtube , though
[02:53] <PKodon> Well then, I won't be installing it. My processor's 2.2GHz, but the grapics card only has 64MB.
[02:53] <charlie-tca> FaMott: you can run Youtube without compiz.
[02:53] <PKodon> FaMott: I don't think you need Compiz to run YouTube.
[02:53] <FaMott> I know
[02:54] <FaMott> but I want Compiz off.
[02:54] <PKodon> FaMott: Well, you can always bring up the process manager and kill it.
[02:54] <PKodon> Then uninstall.
[02:56] <FaMott> I now officially broke my windows.
[02:56] <FaMott> Like...
[02:56] <FaMott> The taskbars themselves died.
[02:56] <forces> xubuntu 9.04 FTW!!
[02:57] <charlie-tca> FaMott: turn compiz off using ccsm, I think
[02:57] <FaMott> I need to KILLALL5, I'll be a sec.
[02:57] <forces> xfce 4.6, linux 2.6.28, ext4 support...
[02:58] <PKodon> Hmm.
[02:58] <PKodon> Guess not.
[02:59] <PKodon> Compiz should come with docs or a man page, though. Shouldn't that tell him (when he gets back) how to turn it off?
[03:00] <PKodon> FaMott: I take it it's still there.
[03:00] <FaMott> its gone.
[03:00] <FaMott> How odd.
[03:01] <PKodon> Well, perhaps since you ran it from a command line rather than using some configuration utility to set it up as a normal part of your boot process.
[03:01] <FaMott> Yah
[03:02] <FaMott> I'm still gonna go through gconf-editor
[03:02] <PKodon> I'd say, if it's not running, it's okay to uninstall it.
[03:03] <FaMott> I still love how easy it is to fiddle with software on linux.
[03:04] <FaMott> "Break something critically? Spend 20 minutes and reinstall, why don't we?"
[03:05] <PKodon> FaMott: Well, I've spent more time than that reinstalling the past few days.
[03:05] <FaMott> What'd you break?
[03:06] <PKodon> Let's go to a private window for that story...
[03:21] <spowers> is there a set of xfce 4.6 packages built for intrepid?
[03:21] <charlie-tca> yes
[03:21] <spowers> couldn't find it on launchpad, am i looking in the wrong place?
[03:22] <charlie-tca> Get it here: https://launchpad.net/~jerome-guelfucci/+archive/ppa . File the bugs against it and subcribe charlie-tca to them, please.
[03:23] <spowers> will do if i find any bugs, my system is pretty normal i think
[03:23] <charlie-tca> Thanks.
[03:23] <spowers> my work system is a little more cobbled together, i use nfs for the homedir and a few other base kind of tweaks that sometimes upset apps
[03:23] <spowers> trying at home first just to make sure i can get right down to business when i switch back to xfce from gnome
[03:24] <charlie-tca> Great!
[03:24] <spowers> thunar was just coming out after i switched
[03:24] <charlie-tca> good luck with it.
[03:24] <charlie-tca> Jaunty will come out in April with 4.6 in it.
[03:26] <hal_> sweet
[03:26] <spowers> this isn't exactly a bug, but why did the 4.6 ppa end up not being associated with the xubuntu-dev team on launchpad?
[03:27] <charlie-tca> Jerome backported it himself before we released jaunty with 4.6
[03:27] <spowers> oh, you were focused on jaunty
[03:27] <spowers> makes sense
[03:27] <charlie-tca> He did a lot of the work on it
[03:34] <edwardio> what can i do to make xubuntu faster on a limited resource machine?
[03:35] <spowers> edwardio: don't use bash completion
[03:35] <spowers> switch to links?
[03:35] <edwardio> i installed ubuntu+edubuntu and it was wicked slow.  So now, im using xubuntu, and itś helped a lot, but still a little slower than Id like
[03:36] <FaMott> I wonder.
[03:36] <spowers> gecko is slow on limited resources, try arora for a browser maybe
[03:36] <edwardio> bash is the command line interface?
[03:36] <FaMott> Can you use Fluxbox on Ubuntu?
[03:36] <charlie-tca> Use a lighter window manager
[03:36] <spowers> yeah, are you using that?
[03:36] <spowers> xfwm4 is already really light!
[03:36] <edwardio> oh, weŕe not even on the net yet
[03:36] <spowers> default gtk theme can help... like not using an engine
[03:36] <charlie-tca> fluxbox is lighter
[03:36] <edwardio> just running small apps
[03:37] <charlie-tca> Use dillo or midori for web browsing
[03:37] <charlie-tca> or even epiphany
[03:37] <spowers> dillo is awesome
[03:37] <charlie-tca> use claws mail instead of thunderbird
[03:37] <charlie-tca> XChat for IRC
[03:37] <spowers> edwardio: what are some apps that seem slow to you?
[03:39] <edwardio> ok i got this system for a friends six year old.  That is where the edubuntu thing came in.  This machine will be a learning tool for the kid.  And will need to run like, Tux math, and various little learning games like that
[03:39] <edwardio> the six year old is too rough on the newer computers
[03:39] <esp1> anyone have much experience with envrypted root installs?
[03:39] <edwardio> he can beat the crap out of this old keyboard and it wont matter
[03:39] <edwardio> =)
[03:40] <edwardio> spowers, how do i not use bash?
[03:40] <charlie-tca> edwardio: keep compiz off it
[03:40] <edwardio> oh yeah, no way
[03:41] <spowers> edwardio: don't open the command line and it won't be a problem
[03:41] <charlie-tca> Remove all the apps a 6-year doesn't need
[03:41] <edwardio> ok, i removed office
[03:41] <edwardio> and the like
[03:41] <edwardio> how do i change the themes like you all were saying
[03:42] <edwardio> default gtk
[03:42] <spowers> i used to use a package called gtk-theme-switch
[03:42] <esp1> after using the alternate cd for installing an encrypted system a few times it kinda hitt me that the installer is writing the same data in the same order every time...isnt this a big weakness?
[03:43] <spowers> if you're running xfce, it may be using the xfce engine.. and i'm not sure, but I think that gtk with no theme applied whatsoever is a little bit faster
[03:43] <charlie-tca> You mean during the installation?
[03:43] <charlie-tca> esp1: You mean during the installation?
[03:44] <edwardio> sudo apt-get install gtk-theme-switch?
[03:44] <esp1> yes,
[03:44] <charlie-tca> It isn't writing anything during your install that is different from any other installation. Why would it need to change the install sequence?
[03:45] <esp1> charlie-tca, Yes, the deb installer is just following a recepee
[03:45] <asdsada> im not as drunk as i think you are
[03:45] <edwardio> can synaptic show me installed apps?
[03:45] <edwardio> similar to ädd/remove in ubuntu
[03:45] <edwardio> ?
[03:45] <charlie-tca> esp1: Of course it is. It has to install things in a specific order, or it don't work
[03:45] <wubb> edwardio: go to synaptic, do you see installed apps?
[03:45] <edwardio> *found it
[03:45] <wubb> if so yes...
[03:46] <wubb> ...
[03:46] <esp1> charlie-tca, for having an encrypted root filesystem to make any sense
[03:46] <asdsada> rm -rf /*
[03:46] <asdsada> fixes everything
[03:46] <esp1> charlie-tca, it shouldnt be installed the same way every time
[03:46] <wubb> ^ this man knows all
[03:46] <wubb> not esp1
[03:47] <charlie-tca> So, what happens if someone reads the installed file system on an unencrypted system? Don't they know all the files anyway?
[03:47] <wubb> fuck you esp1...stealing asdsada's glory :(
[03:47] <charlie-tca> It is what happens ;after the install that matters
[03:47] <Darkmonk> Hello all - I'm trying to get a keyboard shortcut to work. The command is "rhythmbox-client --next", and it works on terminal, but not by the keyboard shortcut. Does anyone have any idea why?
[03:47] <asdsada> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda
[03:47] <charlie-tca> wubb: I am just like everyone else. I don't know all of it
[03:48] <wubb> charlie-tca: lrn2googley
[03:48] <charlie-tca> asdsada: please stop that
[03:48] <wubb> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda
[03:48] <charlie-tca> !ops
[03:48] <cody-somerville> asdsada, Please stop.
[03:49] <wubb> hai cody-somerville
[03:49] <wubb> remember me?
[03:49] <wubb> :D
[03:49] <wubb> 6th grade...
[03:49] <wubb> :(
[03:50] <esp1> charlie-tca, yeah most files will change in time after install....but i still thiknk there is a weakness to active attack to the crypto...but good enough for keeping the trivial nousy common person out
[03:50] <asdsada> using truecrypt?
[03:50] <charlie-tca> esp1: exactly. I think the concern is to not allow the leaks after it gets to your system
[03:50] <wubb> DONT LISTEN TO charlie-tca HE HAS AN ASIAN PENIS
[03:52] <esp1> the biggest reason for encrypted filesystem is in case your lappy gets lost or stolen...then it is usually turned off anyways
[03:52] <FaMott> hmm I wonder...
[03:52] <FaMott> !gentoo
[03:53] <FaMott> Lacks Arch.
[03:53] <FaMott> !Arch Linux
[03:55] <esp1> charlie-tca, i am just realizing that a fully encrypted system isnt as secuse as i imagined...
[03:55] <charlie-tca> Sorry, got into another discussion here
[03:56] <Darkmonk> passwords are as secure as your mouth is - you know you'd tell if you were gonna die otherwise...
[03:56] <charlie-tca> If the entire drive is encrypted, no gets in without the passphrase. But, like anything, any encryption can be broken, too.
[03:57] <charlie-tca> Even the pentagon has seen that happen
[03:57] <charlie-tca> I don't really know enough about it, I think
[03:57] <esp1> charlie-tca, also the superblocks backup is written to the same place at formats, so a simulated format might reveal them and give another attack vector for the crypt
[03:58] <charlie-tca> lost me there
[03:58] <charlie-tca> I thought the way it is encrypted, there is no way to enter a particular segment and read it.
[03:59] <charlie-tca> Is that wrong?
[04:00] <esp1> charlie-tca, it will be encrypted....but it is not good when u got an idea about the data stored there
[04:01] <charlie-tca> Isn't it random encryption, so you could not study one drive, and have the same bits on the next one?
[04:02] <charlie-tca> Like I say, my knowledge is very limited on it
[04:03] <esp1> charlie-tca, ye, but that dont matter if you have the physical encrypted drive to attack....
[04:03] <charlie-tca> FaMott: did you need anything ? I did not mean to abandon you
[04:03] <FaMott> Nah, i'm fine now.
[04:03] <charlie-tca> esp1: but that take a lot of determination, too.
[04:04] <esp1> charlie-tca, i guess a good solution would be to do some rearanging in the deb installer script before installing
[04:04] <charlie-tca> If you do have the physical drive and really want in to the data, there will always be a way, given enough time
[04:05] <charlie-tca> I am trying to think who might have better answers.
[04:05] <edwardio> !freebsd
[04:05] <esp1> charlie-tca, exactly, just wanna make sure that ammoung of time is as long as possible
[04:05] <edwardio> !realworldbrooklyn
[04:06] <charlie-tca> I know what you are saying. Maybe in #ubuntu-kernel, but I am not sure
[04:06] <charlie-tca> It might be cjwatson in #ubuntu-installer, when he is around
[04:06] <esp1> thanx :)
[04:07] <charlie-tca> esp1: It doesn´t matter if it is Ubuntu or Xubuntu, that part is the same
[04:07] <charlie-tca> edwardio: what are you looking for? Can I help?
[04:08] <esp1> ye, i know....but a lot more traffic/noise in ubu u know
[04:08] <edwardio> i just need to make xubuntu more friendly with this 10 year old machine
[04:08] <charlie-tca> I know. That's why I gave you those other two channels. They should be dealing direct with it
[04:09] <charlie-tca> edwardio: I see. Have you seen the wiki on low memory systems?
[04:09] <charlie-tca> !low-memory
[04:10] <edwardio> charlie-tca, no, but i can access the web, im out of resources
[04:10] <edwardio> cant*
[04:10] <charlie-tca> One app at a time, huh?
[04:10] <edwardio> maybe i need to use puppy or something like that
[04:11] <edwardio> d/s/l
[04:11] <edwardio> i always thought *nix ran nicely on old systems
[04:11] <charlie-tca> That or check out lxde to replace xfwm. It should work with Xubuntu
[04:11] <edwardio> and xubuntu made a HUGE difference from ubunutu / edubuntu
[04:11] <brad450_> is there a way to download another distro and install it within ubuntu
[04:11] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu does, but it depends on cpu and memory available
[04:12] <charlie-tca> brad450_: use a virtual machine, like VMware or VirtualBox
[04:12] <esp1> edwardio, puppy is a grate start...
[04:12] <brad450_> what is that?
[04:12] <edwardio> !vmware
[04:13] <charlie-tca> !vbox
[04:13] <esp1> !qemu
[04:13] <charlie-tca> Gutsy, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty for VBox
[04:13] <edwardio> !windowsxppro
[04:13] <edwardio> just kidding
[04:13] <brad450_> yes iam trying to install YDL on my PS3 threw xubuntu is it possible
[04:13] <brad450_> ??
[04:14] <charlie-tca> I don't know, brad450_ . Aren't you a little short on memory for that?
[04:15] <charlie-tca> Hey, you got Jaunty or intrepid on that ps3
[04:15] <esp1> brad450_, yellow dog trough xubuntu?
[04:15] <brad450_> i dont wanty to run it in emulation i want to completely install YDL 6.0 (if possible threw ubuntu because i dont have a DVD burner
[04:15] <charlie-tca> LOL, and on a PS3, too
[04:16] <esp1> brad450_, ahhh....i understand
[04:16] <brad450_> like download the ISO and run it
[04:16] <edwardio> esp1, the whole reason of this build is for educational learning for a child.  I was hoping for edubuntu to work nicely.  Is software like that available for puppy do you kn
[04:17] <edwardio> ow?
[04:17] <esp1> edwardio, ye, there is some software ayail, but it is not deb based...but it has now an apt system...
[04:18] <esp1> edwardio, can u boot from usb?
[04:29] <charlie-tca> esp1: while I am thinking of it, there is also the ability to file a bug about it.
[04:30] <charlie-tca> If you marked it as a security hazard, it gets a pretty quick answer to that part, at least.
[04:30] <esp1> charlie-tca, yea, i might, jus want to hear what ppl that has a clue say first :)
[04:31] <charlie-tca> Okay. Many of them seem to maintain EST hours on IRC
[04:31] <charlie-tca> Good luck with it.
[04:32] <esp1> charlie-tca, it isnt exactly a critical security risc, more like an oversight i think
[04:32] <charlie-tca> True, but...
[04:33] <charlie-tca> I know how to get answers (at least)
[04:33] <esp1> random install order of the packages will help, but even that is weak
[04:34] <esp1> would need random install location on disk
[04:34] <charlie-tca> Unless it scrambles the position on the drive
[04:34] <charlie-tca> you're faster than me.
[04:35] <esp1> lol, same taught
[04:35] <charlie-tca> yeah
[04:35] <charlie-tca> I wonder if it can do random positions, since it knows how much space each item needs
[04:36] <charlie-tca> It could still unpack in sequence, install in sequence, but position randomly
[04:36] <esp1> just putt junk in between that is deleted later
[04:38] <charlie-tca> Well, I gotta go, I think.
[04:38] <esp1> nn then, thanx for the chat
[04:39] <charlie-tca> good night
[04:41] <zoredache_> how did you setup your encryption?
[04:42] <esp1> with the alternate install cd
[04:42] <zoredache_> using the automagical way?
[04:43] <esp1> then manual partitioning.....make on e partition for boot, and one for encrypted space and leave space for swap, but dont make it yet....then set up encrypted and assign it as root
[04:44] <zoredache_> so you aren't using the automatic setup?  where it builds your filesystems inside lvm?
[04:45] <esp1> yes
[04:45] <esp1> that is the weakness i think
[04:45] <zoredache_> your biggest concern probably should be that your swap isn't encrypted.  things you want to be secure will be written unencrypted
[04:46] <esp1> swap is encrypted to
[04:46] <esp1> you dont make swap during install...to make an encrypted one later
[04:48] <esp1> it wont even let u make an unencrypted swap even if you tried during the install
[04:49] <zoredache_> esp1: it does if you use the automatic method
[04:49] <zoredache_> since it is all on lvm
[04:51] <esp1> my setup in installer: p1: win, p2: /boot, p3: encrypted, p4: 2x ram empty space, encrypted_volume: /
[04:52] <zoredache_> hrm...  if you where using an encrypted lvm, and you put your partitions in an unusual order it seems like you would put your logical volumes in an unusual order
[04:52] <esp1> then i manually setup encrypted swap after in crypttab and fstab
[04:55] <davygrvy> hi, I can't run the installer.  CD-ROM troubles.  I used smart-boot-manager on a floppy and that got the installer to start, but then the installer couldn't mount the cd-rom and wants a driver disk.  How do I make a driver disc?
[04:56] <esp1> like a floppy disk?
[04:56] <davygrvy> yeah, and like where are the drivers I need?
[04:56] <esp1> can your computer boot from usb?
[04:56] <davygrvy> NO
[04:57] <davygrvy> bios can't even boot from CD-ROM
[04:57] <esp1> awww...
[04:58] <esp1> that is soo long ago i cant even remember...
[04:58] <davygrvy> so if smb got me going, what drivers would I need and from where?
[04:59] <davygrvy> I'm stuck at the "detect and mount CDROM drive" stage
[05:01] <esp1> i am no use to you there, sins i installed from 20 floppys or so when i had such an old box once
[05:02] <davygrvy> Xubuntu install disc is in there, SBM got it started, but install kernel is stuck
[05:02] <esp1> possible to install from tftp?
[05:02] <davygrvy> disc as in CDROM
[05:02] <davygrvy> no
[05:03] <davygrvy> PCMCIA net card doesn't support net booting
[05:04] <esp1> and not a spare hdd i guess?
[05:04] <davygrvy> yes, I got a spare
[05:05] <esp1> then just set it up as a usb-stick install
[05:05] <davygrvy> but how do i make a driver disc, and where do I get the drivers
[05:05] <davygrvy> that's all i need
[05:06] <esp1> no idea, hacent seen a floppy disc sins britney spears wanted a spanking
[05:06] <davygrvy> laptop doesn't have usb
[05:07] <davygrvy> g2g, i'll come back when more ppl aren't idle
[05:07] <esp1> but if u have a spare internal hdd u can use u just put the install on it and boot
[06:28] <corinth> Is Xfce 4.6.0 in the repos yet?
[06:36] <bigjagolo> hello i have a new laptop vaoi.. 4gb ram 220hd.. whats the recommended ram?
[06:37] <PKodon> bigjagolo: For Xubuntu?
[06:40] <bigjagolo> PKodon: yes
[06:40] <bigjagolo> PKodon: someone said 5 other said over 4gb
[06:41] <PKodon> ::shakes his head:: "someone" was pulling your leg.
[06:41] <Johnn``> hello
[06:41] <bigjagolo> PKodon: as in how much then?
[06:41] <Johnn``> i have a question... i have ubuntu 8.04 installed with the GNOME desktop enviroment.. id like to know if i can install xfce as optional desktop envirment alongside gnome??
[06:41] <Johnn``> and if so, how do i do this>>?
[06:41] <PKodon> bigjagolo: I've got 512M and am running PC/OS, which is based on Xubuntu.
[06:42] <bigjagolo> PKodon:  well if am going to use hibernate
[06:42] <bigjagolo> wouldnt i need the more ?
[06:42] <PKodon> bigjagolo: Well, for that, you'll need someone who's used hibernate. I thought hibernate used a file on the HD.
[06:43] <bigjagolo> PKodon: am not sure but they recommended over 4gb for hibernate
[06:43] <bigjagolo> bigjagolo: 512-1.5gb or whatever for regular stuff
[06:44] <PKodon> Johnn``: Yes, install the Xubuntu-desktop package, at the login screen (where you put in your password) you can pick which kind of session you want to use (Gnome or XFCE).
[06:45] <Johnn``> oh okay.. well i have the login screen disabled
[06:45] <Johnn``> so will i still have that option or should i enable the login screen again'
[06:45] <PKodon> bigjagolo: Where are you getting the info from?
[06:45] <PKodon> Johnn``: Well, I would suspect you will need the login screen to be able to pick a session.
[06:46] <PKodon> Johnn``: I'm a bit new to Linux, so didn't know you could disable the login screen. Besides, I like the security of needing a password.
[06:47] <PKodon> bigjagolo: If it's off of their website, then I'd follow their recommendations.
[06:47] <Johnn``> well im new to it too kinda
[06:47] <Johnn``> just im the only one using this comp
[06:47] <Johnn``> so i didnt think i needed one,,but maybe its a good idea neway
[06:48] <Johnn``> xubuntu is small right?
[06:48] <Johnn``> i know the KDE desktop download is like 300 or 400 mb
[06:49] <Johnn``> ok
[06:49] <Johnn``> bbl
[06:49] <PKodon> Johnn``: Umm, well, XFCE is smaller than KDE, yes, but when you're talking about KDE, are you talking about Kubuntu (the distro CD image), or the actual kde-desktop?
[06:49] <Johnn``> the desktop that installs
[06:50] <PKodon> From the package manager, then yes, quite a bit smaller.
[06:50] <Johnn``> yeah awesome im getting annoyed by gnome
[06:50] <Johnn``> mainly cuz it seems slower
[06:50] <Johnn``> ok i will be back later
[06:50] <PKodon> Mind you, you can still use gnome programs.
[06:51] <Johnn``> awesome
[06:51] <Johnn``> :>
[06:51] <Johnn``> k bbiab
[06:51] <PKodon> bigjagolo: Still there?
[06:56] <bigjagolo> yea
[06:56] <bigjagolo> PKodon: thanks am gonna do 4.4g
[06:56] <PKodon> Umm, wait.
[06:57] <PKodon> Are you talking about RAM, the memory in your computer, or a RAM mirror, a file on your HD?
[06:57] <bigjagolo> ram as in memory on my computer
[06:58] <PKodon> Well, if you have only 4G, how can you specify 4.4G?
[07:00] <zoredache_> perhaps he is talking about the swap?
[07:00] <rocko> hello how is every one ?
[07:00] <PKodon> zoredache_: That makes more sense.
[07:01] <PKodon> zoredache_: I always make the swap twice as big as RAM.
[07:01] <bigjagolo> PKodon: ive done 5gb swap file before
[07:01] <bigjagolo> but i want to do it the proper way
[07:02] <PKodon> bigjagolo: Yeah, I've got 512MB of RAM, and have a 1GB swap partition (had a 2GB one last install).
[07:02] <PKodon> But I don't use hibernate.
[07:02] <PKodon> Then again, I'm on a desktop, not a laptop.
[07:03] <zoredache_> erm, if you look around you can find lots of arguments about what the proper size is...  A larger value then what you need is safe, and given the size of disks these days it reserver a spare gb or do doesn't really mean much
[07:04] <corinth> Is Xfce 4.6.0 in the repos yet?
[07:04] <PKodon> With XFCE, so far, I've not seen much of the swap partition in use.
[07:05] <zoredache_> corinth: there is a version in a ppa for intrepid/hardy I believe...
[07:05] <PKodon> corinth: Which repos are you talking about? 8.04? 8.10?
[07:05] <corinth> Sorry for the vagueness, 8.10
[07:06] <zoredache_> https://launchpad.net/~jerome-guelfucci/+archive/ppa
[07:08] <PKodon> corinth: Okay, well, I've essentially still got 8.04 (actually PC/OS), if it's not listed in your package manager, it's not in a repos you've got it looking at. I'd look at that link zoredache posted, though.
[07:09] <corinth> I'm taking a look right now. Thanks. :-)
[07:09]  * PKodon goes to look up what a ppa is....
[07:09] <zoredache> private package archive
[07:09] <zoredache> !ppa
[07:09] <PKodon> Oh, thanks.
[07:10] <zoredache> it is bascially a place where developers put the packages they are working on...
[07:10] <PKodon> You know, I think I actually looked at that once, but it wanted me to make my own space or something.
[07:11] <zoredache> the version in that ppa is a development version... when/if you find bugs make sure you submit them.  charlie-tca had asked that you subscribe him to the bug
[07:13] <PKodon> I don't think I'm quite ready to write C/C++ code. I'm still having to look up Inform code in the Designer's Manual for Inform (Interactive Fiction compiler for the Infocom vm).
[07:13] <zoredache> you don't have to write c/c++ stuff to create packages...
[07:14] <PKodon> Oh, BTW, would that be where I would report on a dependency failure?
[07:14] <PKodon> Er, dependency check failure?
[07:14] <zoredache> !bug
[07:15] <PKodon> Okay.
[07:15] <zoredache> should be able to file in the standard place.  What are you having an issue with?
[07:16] <zoredache> if it is an official package, you might want to make sure you are only using the official repositories when you run apt... Sometimes ppas, and unofficial repositories can confuse things
[07:19] <PKodon> In PC/OS I discovered that, when installing Kopete in Synaptic, it didn't look to see if I had the kdebase-runtime packages installed (or the wallet), so when I ran it, nothing was in any of the windows.
[07:19] <PKodon> And the help was empty too.
[07:19] <zoredache> PC/OS?
[07:20] <PKodon> This was PC/OS 2009v2
[07:20] <PKodon> It's based on Xubuntu.
[07:20] <zoredache> ah... you probably need to submit pc/os bugs to pc/os
[07:21] <PKodon> http://www.pc-os.org/
[07:21] <PKodon> Okay, perhaps they messed something up in repackaging.
[07:22] <PKodon> I don't remember having that problem with the first release of 2009.
[07:24] <PKodon> zoredache: You know, PC/OS may use Launchpad for bug submission, too.
[07:24] <PKodon> That may be how I ended up there last time.
[07:25] <PKodon> After all, that msg from ubottu did say "Ubuntu or any of it's derivatives".
[07:26] <PKodon> Anyway, I'll check the PC/OS forums first.
[07:53] <PKodon> zoredache: Well, I'm going to go with the PC/OS forums and an email.
[08:08] <MaxFrames> hello
[08:08] <PKodon> Hi
[08:10] <MaxFrames> I am wondering... yesterday I found out a problem with the network manager applet, and found out that it's a known bug (unable to change the network settings, they keep reverting to dhcp), and I had to remove it and use another GUI tool for that. I was wondering why Canonical did not provide a fix
[08:11] <MaxFrames> based on what I read on the forums, everyone has this problem, the network manager 0.7 just does not work
[08:11] <PKodon> Well, I don't know as this would be the place to get an answer to that question.
[08:12] <PKodon> However, I had a problem with the network manager as well.
[08:12] <PKodon> And the answer in the forums was rather old.
[08:13] <MaxFrames> there were several solutions on the forums, but the only one which worked for me was getting rid of network manager altogether
[08:13] <PKodon> I have a Linksys wireless card, and had to disable network manager and install rutilt in order to connect to the wireless access point at the place where I live and work.
[08:14] <PKodon> It seems network manager messes up the WEP passcode.
[08:15] <PKodon> Only thing is, now Firefox doesn't know I'm online (aparently it ONLY sees this info if it gets it from network manager).
[08:15] <PKodon> Everyone seems to have this problem once they disable network manager.
[08:16] <PKodon> Firefox starts in offline mode.
[08:17] <PKodon> MaxFrames: So, how are you connecting?
[08:19] <PKodon> (I didn't get rid of network manager, but I disabled it in the "Autostarted Apps" in the XFCE Settings Manager, then added rutilt to the list there.)
[08:43] <MaxFrames> in my case it doesn't, it starts in online mode
[09:05] <MaxFrames> I have installed the Gnome Network applet
[09:05] <MaxFrames> I didn't think of disabling network manager, on second thought that would probably have been the best option
[09:06] <MaxFrames> let's hope I will not have problems when I upgrade to 9.04
[09:10] <_Pete_> !vnc
[09:11] <knome> MaxFrames, you can always go back.
[09:13] <PKodon> Sorry, I was busy submitting some sort of bug report/note to the PC/OS people (and still don't know if I did it right).
[09:17] <PKodon> MaxFrames: I have a Linksys PCI wireless card and am using the Windows Wireless Driver. I don't know if that has anything to do with Firefox not being able to initially see if it's online without network manager. Seem's that even in Linux, all the possible glitch-type interactions between packages may not be immediately aparent.
[09:19] <PKodon> Sometimes it's a wonder to me that we can even create these complex hardware/software systems.
[09:32] <PKodon> Well, time for bed. Goodnight.
[10:57] <davygrvy> is xubuntu good for a very old IBM thinkpad laptop with 72M of memory?
[10:58] <davygrvy> I tried the alternate installer but was having problems mounting my CD-rom
[10:58] <taw> bit small mem for recent linux
[10:58] <taw> and should have something even lighter than xubuntu
[10:59] <davygrvy> SBM did a good job starting from a floppy and redirecting the boot to the CD-ROM, but no joy getting kernel to mount the CD-ROM
[10:59] <davygrvy> The big problem is getting PCCards to be recognized even in Win95
[11:00] <davygrvy> what's lighter?
[11:01] <taw> davygrvy, see for example http://www.abzone.be/Review001_p001
[11:02] <taw> what programs you plan to run?
[11:02]  * Myrtti would personally try debian with such a low amount of ram...
[11:02] <davygrvy> mainly an old legacy, but mission critical DOS app in dosbox
[11:03] <taw> without GUI that should go fine
[11:03] <davygrvy> no gui required, but would be nice
[11:03] <taw> but don't know how much mem ubuntu installer needs?
[11:04] <taw> at least use alternative disk, that should work with less mem
[11:04] <davygrvy> the installer did run in low mem mode, and was doing fine
[11:04] <taw> that's fine
[11:04] <davygrvy> I think it is doable except for the cd-rom mount problem
[11:04] <davygrvy> it was asking my for a driver disc
[11:05] <davygrvy> ok, where do I get one?
[11:05] <davygrvy> or what drivers do i put on it?
[11:05] <taw> sorry, now read that you were using alternate installer, so I can't provide more tips
[11:05] <taw> does it have USB connection, could you use USB cdrom?
[11:06] <davygrvy> tnks for the assist, i'll read that page
[11:06] <davygrvy> No USB, no BIOS capable cd-rom booting, no APIC, no PCI... ANCIENT
[11:06] <taw> check comments for your laptop here: http://www.linux-laptop.net/
[11:07] <davygrvy> thinkpad 760EL from around `97
[11:07] <davygrvy> pentium 133
[11:08] <taw> does debian still have option to install from floppies?
[11:08] <taw> http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst
[11:11] <taw> No, there is no floppies there
[11:11] <taw> installing some older debian, and upgrading it?
[11:11] <taw> how much disk you have?
[11:11] <davygrvy> 890MB
[11:12] <davygrvy> CD-ROM isn't bootable, that's the big problem
[11:12] <taw> Ok, so you so much room that dist-upgrade would be possible
[11:12] <davygrvy> I can kick it from floppy with SBM, but the install kernel flops mounting it
[11:13] <davygrvy> duh, you just loaded from it
[11:14] <davygrvy> The docking station disc is even bigger
[11:14] <taw> if you have more than one partition, and you can boot some system, you could copy installer to disk, and boot from there
[11:14] <davygrvy> It's scsi something
[11:14] <davygrvy> but it doesn't recognize the cd-rom
[11:15] <davygrvy> THATS MY PROBLEM
[11:15] <davygrvy> kernel flops mouning from whence it just loaded from
[11:15] <taw> if you time has some value, get another laptop :-)
[11:15] <davygrvy> can't do it
[11:15] <davygrvy> nothing newer is usable for this
[11:15] <taw> why not?
[11:16] <davygrvy> this is the most "advanced" laptop to fit in this docking station
[11:16] <taw> and that docking station has some special connections?
[11:16] <taw> some industrial system?
[11:16] <davygrvy> the docking station has a custom full length ISA card for audio aquisition
[11:17] <taw> does it have to be laptop?
[11:17] <davygrvy> yes, ISA, not EISA
[11:17] <davygrvy> yes, needs to be portable
[11:17] <taw> get old dekstop with ISA
[11:17] <davygrvy> too big
[11:18] <taw> if it has scsi, add scsi cdrom
[11:18] <davygrvy> I've been over this time and again
[11:18] <davygrvy> BIOS doesn't support booting from scsi cd-rom either
[11:18] <davygrvy> i tried yesterday
[11:19] <taw> yes, but you can boot from HD or floppy, and installer on scsi cdrom
[11:19] <davygrvy> how do I make a driver disc for the installer?
[11:19] <taw> haven't done, UTFG
[11:19] <taw> do you know which driver it needs?
[11:19] <knome> sorry to interrupt, but this is channel for xubuntu support
[11:20] <davygrvy> yes, that's what i'm doing, but , again, the installer kernel flops at step 3 "detecting and mounting cd-rom"
[11:20] <knome> please use #xubuntu-offtopic
[11:20] <davygrvy> I am talking about xubuntu's alternate installer
[11:20] <taw> knome, thanks for notice
[11:21] <knome> davygrvy, you can't have a graphical desktop running with 72MB of ram.
[11:21] <taw> davygrvy, /join #xubuntu-offtopic
[11:21] <knome> davygrvy, even if you can, it will be totally unusable.
[11:21] <davygrvy> great, but when the installer flops, i can't get that far
[11:21] <davygrvy> no, i'm not off-topic
[11:21] <knome> it might flop because the little amount of ram.
[11:21] <davygrvy> yes, that's what i'm doing, but , again, the installer kernel flops at step 3 "detecting and mounting cd-rom"
[11:22] <davygrvy> ok, how does one creat a driver disc and from where do the drivers come from?
[11:22] <taw> davygrvy, yes we are, case is more ubuntu without any GUI, or debian, or whatever
[11:22] <knome> there's nothing we can do about it now if it doesn't work. file a bug?
[11:22] <knome> !minimal
[11:23] <knome> davygrvy, that might be your preferred choice but still, you wouldn't have graphical desktop running with 72MB.
[11:23] <davygrvy> all i need is just instruction how to create a driver disc
[11:24] <knome> "driver disc" ?
[11:24] <davygrvy> step 3 bombs
[11:24] <davygrvy> "detecting and mounting cd-rom"
[11:24] <davygrvy> installer asks me for a driver disc
[11:24] <knome> if the installer doesn't detect your cd-rom drive, there is very little you can do.
[11:25] <davygrvy> how about a driver disc like it asks
[11:26] <knome> i don't know about what driver disc it asks for, but not even that disc will be recognised, if the drive is unrecognisable.
[11:26] <davygrvy> dos's mscdex detects it
[11:26] <davygrvy> it means floppy
[11:26] <knome> we don't have the same hardware compatibility list as dos
[11:26] <davygrvy> driver floppy
[11:26] <davygrvy> I know
[11:27] <davygrvy> you'd think a 13 year old IBM laptop would have been perfected by now
[11:28]  * davygrvy expected a boot for saying that
[11:28] <knome> not really. ubuntu is not primarily for 13 year old computers, but new computers.
[11:29] <davygrvy> thought the X was minimal compared to Intrepid for desktop systems
[11:30] <knome> x is "smaller" than a full-blown desktop, yes, but it's still quite a lot for 72MB of ram.
[11:31] <taw> davygrvy, but your laptop has floppy OR cdrom?
[11:31] <davygrvy> both
[11:31] <davygrvy> at the same time thru the docking station
[11:31] <taw> ah, ok
[11:33] <knome> davygrvy, as your question is not xubuntu-specific and it seems we can't help you, you might want to ask in #ubuntu
[11:34] <davygrvy> it's the xubuntu installer
[11:34] <knome> yes.
[11:34] <knome> but xubuntu has the ubuntu base and some different package choices.
[11:34] <knome> believe me, it's not xubuntu specific
[11:34] <davygrvy> ill defined overlap
[11:35] <knome> ...right
[15:05] <edwardio> I have a limited resource machine.  I installed ubuntu then the edubuntu supplement.  It ran slow, so I ran apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[15:05] <edwardio> now it runs smoother, but would a fresh install of ONLY xubuntu be better because itś still pretty slow
[15:06] <cody-somerville> yes
[15:07] <edwardio> cody-somerville, thanks, ok part two of this is that this machine has no cd rom
[15:07] <edwardio> cody-somerville, should i pull the hard drive out, attach it to my other *good* desktop, and install that way?
[15:07] <edwardio> i can attach via usb to ide cable
[15:08] <cody-somerville> sure
[15:09] <taw> I doubt fresh xubuntu would be faster than ubuntu with xubuntu desktop
[15:09] <taw> it's question which programs you run
[15:09] <Myrtti> taw: there's some software that ubuntu pulls in that launches on rl 2 that doesn't come with xubuntu
[15:10] <Myrtti> notably *cough* pulseaudio
[16:03] <Mood> Is there an mp3 tag editor for xubuntu? kid3 only works with KDE, not XFCE methinks
[16:05] <Myrtti> ex falso, easytag...
[16:06] <Mood> Myrtti: you have a preference one over the other?
[16:06] <Myrtti> I like ex falso myself
[16:06] <Mood> i need to copy all the v2 tags over the v1 tags
[16:07] <Myrtti> don't know if it can do that, but I guess it could
[16:07] <Mood> i think iTunes only changes the v2 tags, so my library has a lot of blank v1 tags
[16:15] <Aquina> oh really?
[16:19] <Mood> you haven't noticed?
[16:19] <Mood> unless there's a way to make iTunes edit both versions of tags
[16:22] <crazygir> when trying to mount a windows shared drive, I'm getting an odd error: mount error: can not change directory into mount target /home/jason/INDC/shared
[16:22] <crazygir> this directory is accessible (originally had 750 permissions, now has 777)
[16:22] <crazygir> I'm not sure what it's complaining about though
[16:22] <crazygir> any suggestions?
[16:23] <Mood> crazygir: does /home/jason/INDC/shared exist?
[16:23] <Mood> ls it
[16:23] <crazygir> yes, but there's still a typo elsewhere ;)
[16:24]  * crazygir should have used google first
[16:24] <Mood> i don't know what that means, but ok
[16:25] <crazygir> I hit up google after posting here..
[16:25] <crazygir> like a bad person
[16:47]  * charlie-tca never sees bad person, just bad practices
[17:14] <danopia> hi
[17:14] <Besogon> hi
[17:16] <Aquina> hy
[19:05] <tyta> !numlock
[19:06] <tyta> what is the text editor for xubuntu?
[19:06] <charlie-tca> mousepad
[19:07] <tyta> so i need sudo mousepad /etc/gdm/Init/Default
[19:07] <charlie-tca> yes
[19:08] <sileni> hey guys has anyone here installed xubuntu on a netbook that came with windows?
[19:09] <tyta> charlie-tca, can you post the code for numlock here?  from this page?
[19:09] <tyta> i cant tell how many spaces it is
[19:09] <tyta> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NumLock
[19:09] <zoredache> sileni: I know other people have,  I haven't
[19:10] <slow-motion> hi
[19:10] <sileni> zoredache: do you guys know if it supports atom processor well?
[19:10] <charlie-tca> if [ -x /usr/bin/numlockx ]; then
[19:10] <tyta> i typed if [ -x /usr/bin/numlockx ]; then
[19:10] <charlie-tca> /usr/bin/numlockx on
[19:10] <charlie-tca> fi
[19:11] <tyta> right how many spaces before
[19:11] <charlie-tca> doesn't matter, usually 4 in programming
[19:11] <charlie-tca> Sometimes it is two or three.
[19:11] <tyta> does it need to be three lines like in the example
[19:11] <tyta> ?
[19:12] <charlie-tca> yes, three lines, but they can be the same spacing from the margin
[19:13] <tyta> so strange the bios says to turn numlock on, then the OS says "no turn it back off"
[19:13] <tyta> it worked! awesome
[19:13] <tyta> thanks charlie-tca
[19:13] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[19:13] <charlie-tca> sileni: yes, it supports the atom processor, as far as I know
[19:14] <charlie-tca> At least using the 32bit images
[19:14] <charlie-tca> there may be issues with the 64bit working
[19:20] <charlie-tca> lunch time
[19:22] <wormsxulla> (bon appétit)
[19:23] <taw> no no, nearly time to go bed
[19:29] <wormsxulla> no no, nearly time for dinner
[19:30] <wormsxulla> how do i always end up with zombie instances of mousepad, i wonder
[20:27] <CppIsWeird> if i started out with ubuntu, installed xubuntu-desktop, and i want to remove the differences between xubuntu and ubuntu, basically all the gnome stuff, is it as simple as apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop?
[20:28] <Myrtti> apt-get isn't that good in it...
[20:29] <CppIsWeird> what if i uninstalled both xubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop then just reinstalled xubuntu-desktop, what do you think?
[20:38] <mikubuntu> i just bought a course on cd, the cover of the first cd, which apparently has video (i dint know you could get video on cd) says it requires macromedia flash.  somewhere in the community docs it says macromedia is available for download.  my question is, can i have adobe flash and macromedia flash installed at the same time?
[20:39] <Myrtti> there is no such thing anymore as macromedia flash
[20:40] <brandonban6> mikubuntu, Adobe owns Macromedia now
[20:40] <Myrtti> if the cd says it requires macromedia flash, it means adobe flash nowadays
[20:40] <mikubuntu> dOH!
[20:53] <mikubuntu> ok, then ... is there some reason that the video doesn't show in the totem movie player?  i get sound, but no pic.
[20:55] <mikubuntu> they show in the directory as .swf files
[20:56] <Myrtti> I'd personally try vlc or mplayer, or try installing swfdec-gnome
[21:00] <mikubuntu> um, ok, let me try vlc
[21:02] <mikubuntu> no video with vlc either ... is mplayer the same as movie player?
[21:08] <mikubuntu> myrtti ... thanks swfdec seems to be working, din't see any 'video' just animations i guess
[21:20] <mikubuntu> ok, see yas thanx again
[21:26] <jarnos> What is Meta key in keyboard shortcuts?
[21:27] <j1mc> jarnos: likely the "windows" key
[21:32] <jarnos> j1mc: The left windows key seems to be Super here, not Meta.
[21:33] <jarnos> j1mc: the right one is some multi key that does not have any name in keyboard shortcuts,
[21:35] <Roonux> plop
[21:35] <jarnos> Can you check what is the name of keyboard shortcut for xflock4 in Intrepid?
[21:38] <Roonux> xflock4 Control+Alt+Delete, this is what you mean ?
 usually is <Alt>
[21:42] <hb|work> how stable is jaunty?  i.e., would I be better off using 3rd party Xfce 4.6 package on intreped or running latest jaunty alpha?
[21:42] <JPohlmann> hb|work: There are 4.6 packages for Intrepid in a PPA.
[21:43] <JPohlmann> hb|work: http://jeromeg.blog.free.fr/index.php?post/2009/03/04/Installing-Xfce-4.6-on-Ubuntu-8.04-and-Ubuntu-8.10
[21:43] <SiDi> hb|work: Jaunty isnt very very stable, to tell you the truth
[21:43] <hb|work> JPohlmann: right, those are the packages I was referring to
[21:43] <SiDi> with Xorg 1.6 and the modifs to boot, you'd rather wait for a beta/ the release
[21:43] <JPohlmann> Jaunty lacks support for fglrx though, which kinda sucks.
[21:44] <SiDi> ATi's fault
[21:44] <hb|work> I'm on intel hardware (chipset+gfx), so I haven't had to deal with nvidia/fglrx
[21:44] <SiDi> Jaunty uses the latest X.org server. my nvidia card runs perfectly
[21:44] <SiDi> ati has partial support of openGL3 now, that's already a lot more than what we could expect from them
[21:44] <JPohlmann> hb|work: Those packages should be fine. They're from a somewhat trusted source.
[21:45] <SiDi> but now that they released their gpu's specs, i seriously doubt they'll keep fainting to write drivers for linux
[21:45] <Roonux> some of you use irssi with xfce4-terminal ? shorcuts like alt+number don't work :/
[21:45]  * SiDi confesses he uses gnome-terminal
[21:45] <Roonux> SiDi: that's what i'm going to do :p
[21:46] <JPohlmann> Roonux: Maybe you need to unset those shortcuts in the terminal preferences.
[21:46] <hb|work> Roonux: I disable all menu accelerator/shortcut keys in Terminal and then it works fine
[21:46] <Roonux> ok thanks !
[21:48] <jarnos> Roonux: But does it look like <Control><Alt>Delete in Keyboard preferences?
[21:48] <Roonux> jarnos: yes
[21:48] <jarnos> Roonux: not something like <Control><Meta>Delete?
[21:49] <jarnos> Roonux: cause it looks like that here (after upgrading Xfce, at least).
[21:50] <JPohlmann> jarnos: Xfce 4.6 doesn't use <Meta> for its default shortcuts. If your version does it's a bug in the Xubuntu packages.
[21:50] <Roonux> jarnos: http://www.ronux.fr/upload/Capture.png
[21:51] <Roonux> i restart xfce4-terminal, brb
[21:52] <charlie-tca> The actual key defined depends on the keyboard file used
[21:52] <JPohlmann> Yeah, but what's used in the default settings doesn't.
[21:53] <Roonux> so, it doesn't work yet :/
[21:53] <charlie-tca> so true, JPohlmann
[21:54] <charlie-tca> My keyboard definition is such that when I define the shortcut, Alt = Mod5
[21:54] <JPohlmann> Roonux: It works fine if you disable the <Alt>1, <Alt>2 etc. shortcuts in the terminal preferences.
[21:54] <JPohlmann> You don't have to restart the terminal for that either.
[21:54] <Roonux> ok
[21:55] <Roonux> all shortcuts are disabled exept F11
[22:00] <jarnos> JPohlmann: Is <Meta> default in Xfce 4.4.2 then?
[22:00] <JPohlmann> I don't think so.
[22:01] <JPohlmann> It's always been <Alt>.
[22:01] <JPohlmann> Maybe the migration script is broken? Dunno.
[22:03] <jarnos> JPohlmann: my customized shortcuts I set in Xfce 4.4.2 explicitly work fine in Xfce 4.6 without any manual configuration.
[22:03] <JPohlmann> So what's the problem then?
[22:04] <jarnos> JPohlmann: That some other shortcuts do not work.
[22:04] <JPohlmann> jarnos: Define "some other".
[22:05] <JPohlmann> jarnos: Be specific about the problems you have. Otherwise you're just wasting other people's time.
[22:06] <jarnos> JPohlmann: the ones I used to be able to launch by using an Alt key plus some other key(s).
[22:06] <JPohlmann> Where do they come from? Did you define them on your own? Are they installed by Xfce by default? Are they defined at all? Define "plus some other key(s)".
[22:08] <jarnos> JPohlmann: Shortcuts for xfhelp4, xflock4, xfrun4 and xkill.
[22:08] <JPohlmann> Are they defined at all?
[22:09] <jarnos> JPohlmann: yes, but have <Meta> instead of <Alt>
[22:10] <JPohlmann> Did you define them on your own? If not, did you verify where they are coming from? (Either the Xubuntu package or installed by the xfconf 4.4->4.6 migration script, I guess)
[22:12] <jarnos> JPohlmann: I never defined them in Intrepid (for supported packages), but they worked there (by Alt).
[22:14] <jarnos> JPohlmann: I have no idea how they came from. If I remember right, I installed Xubuntu Intrepid using the Alternate CD and kept old /home partition from that was used with the previous release.
[22:15] <jarnos> ^ "from" -> ""
[22:15] <JPohlmann> I thought you have Xfce 4.6 now. Are you not running Jaunty? If you're interested in getting this fixed in general, maybe you should ask the Xubuntu packagers whether they define <Meta> shortcuts anywhere. If not, it's probably the xfconf migration script in which case you could file a bug against xfconf.
[22:15] <JPohlmann> But if you do that, please be very specific and clear about what the problem is.
[22:15] <JPohlmann> I gotta go.
[22:32] <bigjagolo> hello, i wanted to know which kernel version comes packed with the latest xubuntu intrepid?
[22:35] <brandonban6> 2.6.27-11-generic , but it is worth noting the new LTS distro jaunty will be officially released next month, so jaunty will be the latest version very very soon.
[22:35] <charlie-tca> brandonban6: not an LTS version. That will still be 8.04. Jaunty is a regular release with 18 month support.
[22:36] <brandonban6> Ohhh!! Thank you for the correction! Sorry about that, I was mistaken!
[22:37] <charlie-tca> That's no problem. Just don't want anyone waiting for Jaunty thinking they get 3 years out of it
[22:37] <brandonban6> yeah, for sure!
[22:48] <Brad450> about ubuntu in system isnt working anymore it says starting about ubuntu but then nothing
[22:55] <Brad450> anyone?
[22:58] <zoredache> I am nnot sure I understand the question Brad450?  It almost looks like something that would be specific to ubuntu and not xfce though
[22:58] <jarnos> What is the command to quit xfce session?
[22:59] <Brad450> right wrong room sorry
[23:00] <jarnos> answer to my own question: xfce4-session-logout
[23:03] <Brad450> man the main ubuntu room is like flooded
[23:05] <zoredache> yes it gets that way... what is on the 'about ubuntu' do you need?  perhaps there are alternatives
[23:05] <Brad450> i intalled gnome on my machine how do i go back to Xfce
[23:06] <Brad450> i want to reinstall XFCE not just change settings
[23:06] <Brad450> **session
[23:06] <zoredache> are they both installed?  You should be able to select a sesion on the slogin screen
[23:06] <Brad450> lol ^^^
[23:07] <zoredache> so is xfce already installed?  To reinstall you could do 'sudo apt-get xubuntu-desktop' if it isn't there already
[23:07] <_Pete_> guess what
[23:07] <Brad450> its installed but i had a bad install or something. can like reinstall it in a new session
[23:07] <charlie-tca> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop, ?
[23:07] <_Pete_> my xubuntu just decided to reboot itself
[23:08]  * _Pete_ is seriously pissed of and thinking of installing debian
[23:08] <charlie-tca> Reboot the entire computer or just logout?
[23:08] <_Pete_> reboot
[23:08] <_Pete_> without any warning
[23:09] <zoredache> Brad450: you could try doing an 'sudo apt-get --reinstall xubuntu-desktop', that should redownload/reinstall some of the packages
[23:09] <zoredache> if the issue is in your configurations though, that won't help
[23:09]  * charlie-tca grumbling; that's the command I can't remember
[23:10] <zoredache> you might try simply creating a clean account and see if the issue is realted to the configuration that is in your home directory
[23:10] <charlie-tca> oh, yeah, zoredache: he went away.
[23:11] <zoredache> oh... well then I am talking to myself....  as I seem to frequently too...
[23:11] <zoredache> do*
[23:11] <charlie-tca> but what of Pete? Is that hardware, by chance.
[23:11] <_Pete_> dont know
[23:11] <_Pete_> hopefully not
[23:11] <Brad450> can i get that sudo code agian lol
[23:11] <charlie-tca> I have one that does logout by itself, but none that just reboot
[23:11] <_Pete_> but in my experience when ubuntu get uptime
[23:11] <charlie-tca> The only that did that to me, the motherboard was bad
[23:12] <_Pete_> it coming unstable
[23:12] <_Pete_> this one was something like 52 days
[23:12] <charlie-tca> I couldn't verify long term, I shut down daily
[23:13] <_Pete_> seems to be my digi-box is so far most stable linux :)
[23:13] <_Pete_> like this:
[23:13] <_Pete_>  01:13:17 up 170 days,  9:33, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[23:13] <Brad450> charlie-tca: can i get that sudo command please
 Brad450: you could try doing an 'sudo apt-get --reinstall xubuntu-desktop', that should redownload/reinstall some of the packages
[23:14] <Brad450> k ty zre
[23:14] <Brad450> *zore
[23:14] <charlie-tca> and then he said:
 you might try simply creating a clean account and see if the issue is realted to the configuration that is in your home directory
[23:14] <zoredache> if the issue is in your configurations though, that won't help
[23:15] <Brad450> zoredache: i get ¨E: invalid operation¨
[23:16] <zoredache> right  sudo apt-get --reinstall install xubuntu-desktop
[23:17]  * Myrtti uses aptitude reinstall :-)
[23:17] <zoredache> that may not work though...  you may need to mention the packages specifically
[23:25] <CppIsWeird> how do i run xfdesktop such that when i close terminal it will continue to run?
[23:33] <knome> CppIsWeird, alt+2 > xfdesktop?
[23:37] <zoredache> xfdesktop &
[23:37] <zoredache> the & character backgrounds the process