[00:00] crdlb, can notify-send dismiss the current notification? [00:00] dtchen: "break your system in bad ways" ...as opposed to breaking in good ways? [00:00] maco: er, yeah? But warning, I get a system lockup [00:00] magcius: it doesn't appear so [00:00] O_O [00:00] maco: ? [00:00] danbhfive: well my wpa passphrase gets rejected all the time on...well any network but my own (?) and it doesnt lock my system [00:00] maco: Im trying to confirm its an actual bug, and not just me [00:00] (i only removed the udev portion) [00:00] crdlb, what library do I build against then? [00:01] dtchen: yeah but im still laughing at that [00:01] Is it still the same libnotify? [00:01] magcius: yes [00:01] Using d-bus messaging? [00:01] you can uninstall notify-osd [00:01] libnotify has python and vala bindings (and of course there's C) [00:01] crdlb, but is notify-osd using a different libnotify library? [00:02] yes, or you could use dbus directly, I guess [00:02] no, it's just a different service implementing the same API [00:02] magcius: the library is notify-osd [00:02] magcius: notify-send is still the same command though [00:02] no, the library is libnotify? [00:02] er...ok im confused [00:03] i thought libnotify meant you get those little yellow bubbles in lower right corner [00:03] notify-osd and notification-daemon are the two choices for the service which listens on dbus to display the popups [00:03] maco, that's notification-daemon [00:03] oooooh [00:03] ok [00:03] sorry [00:03] maco: hmmm, then I don't know whats going on. My system crashes everytime [00:03] danbhfive: could be your driver [00:03] crdlb, what about notify-daemon? [00:03] danbhfive: what happens if it fails from the command line instead of nm? [00:03] never heard of that [00:04] maco: I haven't tested that yet. I suppose thats the next step. Its just such a pain, since it locks up my system :) [00:04] crdlb, it's in the Ubuntu package index, I'm assuming it's nothing important. [00:05] magcius: it's not installed and not available here, so ... :) === MTecknology is now known as tacoball [00:05] probably an old name for a package === tacoball is now known as MTecknology [00:06] Is there then a way to get the ID for the current message displaying? [00:07] Why is notify-osd in the Orca package? [00:07] err... /var/lib/python-support/orca [00:07] Not package, directory/. [00:08] ...is not [00:08] oh [00:08] wait yes there is one... [00:09] it says there's a notify-osd script for orca, in dpkg -S's output [00:09] That's the only notify-osd locate found. [00:09] what does orca do again? [00:09] Screen reader. [00:09] dpkg -S notify-osd will show all notify-osd files and what package they're in [00:09] it's for assisting in reading notify-osd bubbles, presumably [00:10] there's a notification-daemon.py too [00:10] Ah. [00:10] Why can't it just listen on dbus? [00:11] no idea [00:24] crdlb, Is there then a way to get the ID for the current message displaying? [00:25] dtchen: any news regarding the audio stack ? [00:26] aboSamoor: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6846672#post6846672 [00:27] magcius: doesn't look like it [00:28] crdlb, :(. That's stupid. I can't do this entirely in bash. [00:28] you can close a notification, but you need its id [00:29] So how do I find its ID? [00:30] it's the return value of the Notify method if you're using dbus directly [00:30] crdlb, notify-send? === bruce89-test is now known as bruce89 [00:31] dbus-send if you really wanted to do it with a shell, but it's a losing proposition [00:31] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_r500_power&num=1 [00:32] Certainly doesn't agree with my experience.' [00:32] what ever happened to fast boot times? [00:33] billybigrigger: in what context? [00:33] billybigrigger, I don't know. What ever happened to fast boot times? [00:33] seems like my bootchart times are getting alot worse as we get closer to release [00:33] e.g., fresh install or distribution upgrade? [00:33] my tests in a vm have gotten faster [00:33] well after the last couple kernel updates my boot times keep getting 5 or 10 secs to them [00:33] fresh install a couple weeks ago [00:33] billybigrigger, it's faster for me. [00:33] alpha 5 [00:34] well i was at 16s fresh install alpha 5, im now over 30s [00:34] seems every time i do a kernel update they get worse [00:34] same happening for me. [00:35] It was down to 35 seconds, and now is back to 47 or so. [00:36] keep in mind Scott's reference platform is unlikely to be identical to your current hardware [00:36] (Mini9) [00:36] wasnt "on netbooks with solid state drives" also something that tacked on as fine print with "we're going for faster boot speeds"? [00:37] crdlb, so there's no way to get the ID of the current notification? That sucks... [00:37] magcius: how do you define "the current"? [00:38] magcius: request another notification and then kill that ID-1? [00:38] maco: depends. IMO, no, not fine print. i was sitting there when we discussed that goal. [00:38] maco, I'm using notify-send, which doesn't give IDs. [00:38] crdlb, the one that notify-osd is currently showing? [00:38] I should point out that I'm using notification-daemon, so it's possible that notify-osd has some additional methods [00:38] but I doubt it [00:38] dtchen: heh i just mean that its only ever repeated as "faster boot times" as if it were "in general" but im pretty sure netbook/ssd was the context of the goal [00:39] magcius: but it can show one of each type can't it? [00:39] crdlb, yes, which sucks. [00:39] dtchen: you were there though, so ill defer to your memory [00:39] crdlb, why can't it stack notifications? [00:40] magcius: they want to make it as useless as possible [00:40] I didn't write it :) [00:40] maco: the goal is to decrease boot time across modern commodity desktops, yes [00:40] magcius: because they want it to be legible [00:40] It looks pretty but it's practically useless feature-wise. [00:40] maco: however, the reference platform is a particular Dell Mini9 config [00:40] * bruce89 now uses gnome-(italian name)-session [00:41] Can't attach to GTK+ objects, no actions, only one notification at a time. [00:41] magcius: if i get my entire right 1/4 of my screen taken up by 15 notifications that i cant even read because i cant read 15 things at once and i also cant use the right 1/4 of my screen (hint: the way notification-daemon works)...that's not usable [00:41] maco, and that's why they should have a backlog and a close button, like notification-daemon [00:41] why they've done this, I just don't know [00:42] they do have a backlog... [00:42] maco, read the blog post again? [00:42] they store up to 1000 in the backlog [00:42] maybe they want people to go elsewhere [00:42] Okay, I have a serious feature request. [00:42] Go to System->Administration->Services. [00:42] Notice the Unlock button. [00:43] Now click on it. Instead of gksu, a beautiful su dialog comes up. [00:43] a su dialog? [00:43] WORKSFORME [00:43] maco, "They don’t pile up like email, there is no journal of the ones you missed, you can’t scroll back and see them again, and therefor you are under no obligation to do so - they can’t become work while you are already busy with something else" [00:43] but su's just command line...how would it have a dialog? [00:43] maco: that's PolicyKit [00:43] maco, I meant the Authenticate dialog. [00:44] PolicyKit, thank you. [00:44] magcius: what's the feature request part? [00:44] bruce89: oh that [00:44] which is better than gk* [00:44] I was looking for the name of that. [00:44] Is it a Gnome project? [00:44] magcius: oh i thought by backlog you meant "if one's currently up and another is sent, that one'll be trashed because it wont queue them" [00:44] magcius: add the indicator applet to your panel [00:44] oh I see, PolicyKit has a dialogue saying "enter root password" [00:44] magcius: it has -gnome and -kde frontends [00:44] Ah. [00:45] magcius: fd.o [00:45] magcius: if you watch the video of how it should be, messages go to the indicator applet [00:45] I want that to be in every gnome app. [00:45] what to be in every gnome app? [00:45] currently only in one [00:45] PolicyKit [00:45] it will be, I'm sure [00:45] why? not all of them need root access... [00:45] and shouldn't it be a bug that its asking for root pw when root has no pw? [00:45] maco, I meant the ones that require root access. [00:46] maco, it says nothing about root. [00:46] "System policy prevents modifying the configuration" [00:46] indicator applet is useless currently [00:46] only supports Evolution and Pidgin [00:46] Umm... yeah... that's pretty useless. [00:46] lemme log into gnome again. last time i tried, it didnt even work for pidgin. [00:47] New notification thingy sucks for me... it doesn't show brightness or volume notifications at all. [00:47] still? -_- [00:47] Not blank, not empty... just not at all. [00:47] rather a few people don't use Evolution, and I don't use Piding [00:47] oh [00:47] And when you skip back a bunch of tracks in quodlibet, it can get stuck laggingly showing bubbles for like 15 minutes. [00:47] And the new volume control applet is broken too. [00:47] DanaG, I feel the same way. [00:48] Oh, and you scroll up... the slider moves left... to lower volume. [00:48] DanaG: is the "not showing brightness adjustments" symptom reproducible in a fresh user? [00:48] The key is that I don't use the default Human icon theme -- I shouldn't have to! [00:48] Also, are the images resized in notify-osd? It displays Album Art for me! I don't want a 20x20 image [00:48] DanaG: so human fixes it just like the regular missing icons bug? [00:49] it is clearly very bad [00:49] Not sure; I'll check in a while. Right now I'm in Windows. [00:49] I use OSS4 and the volume control isn't working at ALL. [00:49] * DanaG uses pulseaudio. [00:49] Can't use oss4 with pulseaudio... it gives bogus error signals that make PA give up on the device. [00:50] umm... you're not supposed to use two sound servers at the same time. [00:50] And I do need the multi-device stuff from PA. [00:50] The reason I don't use PulseAudio is because of Wine. Wine says it's PA's fault, PA says it's Wine's fault. [00:50] Two sound cards. [00:50] replace a decent notification system with a half-arsed one which doesn't work if you don't use the default icon theme [00:50] OSS4 has multi-device support? [00:50] I say it's Wine's fault. [00:50] bruce89, and less features. [00:50] even over network, and switching on the fly? with upmixing? [00:50] that's what I meant by half-arsed! [00:51] I would say it's fully-arsed. [00:51] God's not going to bother touching this one. [00:51] not even Godman [00:51] Oh yeah, and try playing stuff in quodlibet with the notification plugin. [00:51] sudo apt-get install notification-daemon [00:51] Goodbye. [00:51] magcius: which v4 snapshot? [00:51] And skip back to first track a few times. [00:51] laaag laagg laggg [00:52] magcius: on which hardware +codec? [00:52] shows bubbles for like 15 minutes if you hit the button 20 times. The old one just stacked them, and then let them all expire at once. [00:52] dtchen, AC97 [00:52] not that update-manager appearing as if by virus is good either [00:52] magcius: which codec? [00:52] C-Media PCI, old old old sound-card. [00:52] dtchen, AC97 is the codec? [00:52] no it's not; it's a specification [00:52] you need to see /proc/asound/card*/*codec*/* [00:53] oh, and when I tried oss4 with my old laptop with a cardbus audigy2, it just hard-locked. Thus, oss4 was a no-go. [00:53] AC97 = Audio Codec '97? [00:53] magcius: AC'97 and HDA are both design specifications. They are both implemented by different codecs. [00:54] CM8768 [00:54] right, that's better [00:55] the latest v4.1 snapshot should be just fine [00:55] dtchen, I have OSS 4.1 [00:55] magcius: yes, which snapshot? [00:56] rev 68 [00:56] how can I know which process is using my Hard disk and in what percentage, my laptop hanged twice with HDD being busy for more than 10 minutes with no clear reason ! [00:57] aboSamoor: try iotop if you don't want to go with systemtap [00:58] How can I start a dbus service? [00:59] I don't know what you mean by that [01:00] There's a .service file that I want to start. [01:00] just connect to the service name and dbus will start the service [01:00] crdlb, not happening. [01:01] * bruce89 should have kept quiet [01:01] crdlb, I just purged notify-osd and now notification-daemon isn't starting. [01:01] will it work like that? [01:01] * crdlb tries to figure out how ubuntu has set things up [01:01] magcius: install gnome-thingy-session [01:02] I guess there are some diversions involved [01:02] replace thingy with some italian word [01:02] crdlb, maybe it unregistered notification-daemon as a service? [01:02] To replace it with notify-osd? [01:02] stacciatella [01:02] close [01:03] I had to look it up in aptitude, but my finger was wrong [01:03] /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service [01:03] package diverts others to: /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service.notify-osd [01:03] Yes, what about it? [01:03] !info gnome-stracciatella-session [01:03] gnome-stracciatella-session (source: stracciatella-session): GNOME session without Ubuntu specific components. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.0.2 (jaunty), package size 2 kB, installed size 64 kB [01:04] so uninstalling notify-osd, should (if I understand dpkg correctly) restore the old .service from notification-daemon to its rightful place [01:04] more like usable GNOME session [01:04] crdlb, it didn't, and both .service files were there when it was installed. [01:04] * crdlb wonders how on earth ubuntu makes that work at runtime with gnome-stracciatella [01:04] eh? there's only one .service file; the other one has to get renamed [01:05] crdlb, there was both .notify-osd and .service in the directory. [01:05] * bruce89 thinks it should have been gnome-haggis-session [01:05] magcius: right [01:05] * magcius thinks no Ubuntu-specific components should ever make its way to production. [01:05] * crdlb apt-get sources [01:06] oh ugh [01:06] export GDMSESSION=gnome-stracciatella [01:06] yeah [01:06] So how do I get notification-daemon back? [01:06] so the package is just a trigger for it [01:06] Just make notification-daemon pretty and I'll be fine. [01:06] * bruce89 waits for all the fuss once Jaunty is released [01:06] I guess I have to apt-get source gnome-session :/ [01:07] dtchen: should I restart to test the new pulse patches ? [01:07] crdlb: http://patches.ubuntu.com/g/gdm/extracted/ [01:08] it's in gdm? O_o [01:08] good point [01:09] doesn't appear to be in gnome-session mind [01:09] haha [01:09] aboSamoor: which new pulse patches? [01:09] they put it in the .service file [01:10] magcius: now that you've uninstalled notify-osd, what do you see in services/ ? [01:10] dtchen: the ones available in your PPA [01:11] crdlb, a correct org.freedesktop.Notifications.service [01:11] ok, now you need to kill the running notify-osd [01:11] crdlb, did that. [01:11] aboSamoor: you need to at least log out of your desktop session(s) and back in [01:11] so what happens now? [01:12] aboSamoor: keep in mind that [PPA] space will be pretty active this weekend [01:12] aboSamoor: i'm currently reworking delay and fork detection [01:13] crdlb, doing a notify-send test does nothing. [01:13] aboSamoor: so expect to see at least one new test version with those changes and at least one new test version beyond that with default resampler changes [01:13] * bruce89 doesn't like all the patching Ubuntu is doing to "fix" their defective notifications [01:13] magcius: is notification-daemon running? [01:13] crdlb, nope. [01:13] dtchen: no problem. I am ready to do anything to fix my mic [01:13] crdlb, I don't know how to start it either. [01:13] magcius: does it manually start if you run /usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon ? [01:13] crdlb, yes. [01:14] and now notify-send works while it's running? [01:14] crdlb, [01:14] crdlb, yes. [01:14] How the fuck do I remove the completely useless Indicator panel applet? Right-click does nothing. [01:14] language please [01:14] crdlb, sorry. [01:14] I just uninstalled it [01:14] magcius: the mail indicator? [01:15] calc, the useless Indicator applet in Jaunty. [01:15] just use gnome-stracciatella :> [01:15] magcius: if it is what i think it is you might have to uninstall it [01:15] calc, and I do that how? [01:15] dpkg --purge some package [01:15] don't know which one [01:15] I meant which package is it. [01:15] I like how the applet is just a no-op in the strac. session [01:15] indicator-appplet suprisingly [01:16] so I tried adding it several times, then switched to regular gnome, and ... :) [01:16] aboSamoor: meaning internal mic or [external] mic jack? if so, neither are related to PulseAudio [01:16] and indicator-messages, evolution-indicator [01:16] bah [01:16] oh i just removed the indicator applet no problem here [01:16] it is possible to remove it, it's just finnicky [01:16] Bah, I just removed that package and nothing happened. [01:16] it's still in memory [01:17] maybe you should try that session ... [01:17] killall did the trick. [01:17] the only two things it does are turning off the things you don't like [01:17] I thought there were more Ubuntu-specific components than that. [01:18] i think it used to not be possible to remove it, but that was back when it was still in a private repo [01:18] according to the blog, those are the only things it does for jaunty [01:19] magcius: the only ones that are easy to remove [01:20] they're not wrapping any of their patches in "if os.environ['GDMSESSION'] == 'gnome-stracciatella'" [01:20] s/==/!=/ :) [01:20] crdlb, please don't tell me they are doing that anywhere. [01:21] _not_ [01:21] well, apparently the indicator-applet has such a check [01:21] crdlb, the way you said it you made it seem like it was going to come. [01:21] so, sorry ;) [01:21] * magcius bangs his head against the wall. [01:21] so it's invisible in stracciatella and reappears in chocolate [01:22] * bruce89 should just remove the messed up GNOME and use jhbuild to install it [01:31] Arrgghh... notify-osd doesn't allow actions on notifications, saying an alert box should be used instead (wtf?), has no log for viewing later, it's one size for every notification, and truncates any text longer than will fit. (How is that in any way useful?), resizes images to a miniscule 20x20 size, only allows one notification at a time, and doesn't allow attaching to GTK+ components. [01:35] crdlb, so how do I restart this service? [01:36] what service? [01:39] magcius: that's a good summary [01:40] perhaps I'll use it in my latest moan to ubuntu-devel [01:45] magcius: well, you have it running now :) [01:46] magcius: if you want to figure out what's going on, you'll need to install d-feet [01:46] ctrl-c that notification-daemon you ran in the terminal and see if there's still something on org.freedesktop.Notifications [02:17] is there a package for the novell SLAB menu in jaunty? i googled and did a couple apt searches but didnt come up with anything [02:17] i seem to remember it being in the repos, but i dont remember the package name [02:18] lamalex: gnome-main-menu? [02:21] I like mintMenu... [02:21] rww: yes i think thats it thank you! [02:22] magcius: whats the mintmeun? [02:23] lamalex, http://www.linuxmint.com/ [02:25] thanks [02:45] dtchen: PulseAudio has gone completely crackly for me again... I did upgrade a couple of hours ago, but I've rebooted thrice since then and only this boot has been dodgy. === asac_ is now known as asac [03:38] so... all my file associations are broken, apparently because my compy crashed during an install [03:38] so [03:39] I downloaded an ISO to reinstall, but Brasereo does not see it as a valid disk image, because it no longer recognizes .iso files [03:40] heh, nvidia 96 is broken for me on Jaunty, at leas twith compiz. [03:40] Login just simply hangs. [03:42] bah, all the text previews on every icon displays in random locations on my screen instead, its kinda cool :P [03:45] * DanaG has a "kill -9 compiz" acpi hotkey setup on the old laptop. [03:46] poor compiz [03:46] too bad that doesn't do anything on ubuntu :> [03:46] well, it doesn't do anything on any distro without the kill being killall or pkill ... [03:47] killall -9 compiz [03:47] .real [03:47] It's bound in acpid. =P [03:47] yeah. [03:47] Bound to the useless "battery info" hotkey. [03:48] * DanaG wonders what you can do with an S3 Savage [03:48] Destroy the environment a little bit more. [03:51] hmm does anyone know offhand what notify-osd does with notifications which ask to be permanent? [03:51] I would guess it just ignores that since there's no way to click on them ... [04:33] wgrant: which pa packages are you using, jaunty's or a ppa's? if the latter, which? [04:36] dtchen: Plain Jaunty. [04:36] wgrant: ok, that's known. [04:36] wgrant: there's a race with the watermarking [04:37] you can work around it either at the driver level or at the pa level [04:37] dtchen: Aha. [04:37] Which is better? [04:37] wgrant: in any case, that's moot; the next upload has glitch-free re-disabled [04:37] wgrant: driver-level is better [04:38] dtchen: How do I do it? [04:38] wgrant: see the position_fix module parameter for snd-hda-intel.ko [04:40] (defaults to 0; you may need 2) [04:40] dtchen: Thanks, I'll try that. [04:41] (it should fall back to the equivalent of 1 [lpib] if io-mapped fails) [04:42] also, presuming you're using a kernel newer than 2.6.27, you shouldn't need to adjust bdl_pos_adj to 32, but it is possible [04:43] try powers-of-two for bdl_pos_adj [04:43] `dmesg' *should* have some info [04:44] [ 4460.554348] hda-intel: IRQ timing workaround is activated for card #0. Suggest a bigger bdl_pos_adj. [04:45] yep [04:45] why does the indicator applet just say "no indicators" all the time, even when pidgin is running and i'm receiving messages? [04:45] try the next higher power-of-two (2^1 == 2) [04:45] 4? [04:46] no, the default value for Intel is 2^0 == 1 [04:46] oh [04:52] dtchen: I've tried lots of combinations of position_fix and bdl_pos_adj, and thye do change things, but not to anything useful. [04:56] wgrant: each with a fresh reload of snd-hda-intel, correct? [04:56] wgrant: what's the highest val of bdl_pos_adj you've tried? [04:56] dtchen: Correct. [04:57] dtchen: 64 [04:57] wgrant: try only adjusting bdl_pos_adj to 4 [04:57] you'll need to try across a cold power-cycle [04:58] echo options snd-hda-intel bdl_pos_adj=4|sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base [04:59] Why the power cycle? [04:59] you need to reset the codec [05:00] some codecs don't reset properly across rmmod & insmod [05:00] Ah. Wonderful. [05:00] * wgrant tries. [05:02] hmm, my chip gives the same sort of error -- and a "Too large adjustment 32" [05:03] DanaG: sigmatel or realtek? [05:03] it's known for some conexants [05:03] ADI1988, actually. [05:03] it's a model=laptop one. [05:03] Also has funky mute behavior: [05:03] yeah, you might want to see if you can reproduce it in 2.6.29-rc7 using the mainline deb from kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa [05:04] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/284319 [05:04] Ubuntu bug 284319 in linux "mute, brightness buttons on new HP 6930p laptop" [Undecided,New] [05:04] or use a recent -driver-stable git snapshots [05:04] I'm using that kernel already, actually -- it fixes my sdhc slot, my accelerometer, and a few other things I can't remember. [05:06] Mute hotkey is a bit of a bummer, though. [05:06] Though it IS nice that it's in hardware. [05:10] Is Jaunty affected with the 3d application crash bug with the GM965 chipset? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/mesa/+bug/120834 [05:10] Ubuntu bug 120834 in mesa "[i965] [Needs UXA] intel gm965 freezes with 3d applications" [High,Fix released] [05:11] argh, danged r600. [05:12] Hrm, I can haz no fix! X crashes in hardy. hrm. [05:12] I should try in Jaunty [05:15] ugh, with nouveau, this old laptop around here FLICKERS quite madly. [05:15] will kubuntu use kde4? [05:16] 9.04 [05:17] fserve: Kubuntu 8.10 and 9.04 use kde4, yes. [05:17] woot nice [05:17] thank ya [05:17] dtchen: That doesn't help much either... [05:18] wgrant: ok, revert the alsa-base change, and try my PPA debs [05:18] Is this the PA 0.9.15? [05:19] DanaG: no, that's Luke's (themuso's) [05:19]