[00:02] <alex_mayorga1> Is it possible to get Skype in Jaunty
[00:07] <hggdh_> skype is proprietary
[00:08] <hggdh_> but I think medibuntu will/does have it
[00:09] <alex_mayorga1> hggdh_: I know the proprietary part, what do we have in the open side to tease friends away from it?
[00:09] <bruce89> SIP
[00:09] <Ienorand> alex_mayorga1: Skype works in ubuntu but I don't know about jaunty specifically...
[00:09] <alex_mayorga1> what app?
[00:10] <hggdh_> I use it in Jaunty, and it is (or was) working
[00:10] <Ienorand> http://www.skype.com/intl/en-gb/download/skype/linux/
[00:14] <crdlb> erm, why is libindicate using org.freedesktop.indicator? shouldn't there be an fd.o spec first? :/
[00:14] <alex_mayorga1> OK, thanks all, I'll look into it
[00:15] <alex_mayorga1> anyone with working gwibber?
[00:15] <alex_mayorga1> I have this problem: python-webkitgtk: Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 is installed.
[00:15] <crdlb> same here
[00:16] <alex_mayorga1> is a gwibber bug?
[00:16] <crdlb> no, jaunty recently switched to python 2.6
[00:17] <bruce89> crdlb: bloody good point
[00:17] <crdlb> and it's taking the packagers a metric forever to get them ported/rebuilt
[00:18] <bazhang> Edbuntu, due in April this year
[00:18] <Edbuntu> sweet
[00:18] <Edbuntu> who comes up with the names?
[00:19] <bazhang> currently alpha 5, use at your own risk
[00:19] <Edbuntu> I like that, the Jaunty Jackalope
[00:19] <Edbuntu> whats next? The Greedy Jew?
[00:20] <bazhang> !names
[00:20] <bazhang> Edbuntu, please adhere to the code of conduct and refrain from that talk
[00:20] <Edbuntu> thank you
[00:20] <Edbuntu> im jewish fyi
[00:20] <bazhang> does not matter
[00:21] <bruce89> crdlb: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/339363
[00:21] <alex_mayorga1> Edbuntu, next is Karmic Koala I believe
[00:51] <DrHalan1> hey, i uploaded packages to my PPA but didn't get an email nor do they show up on launchpad. what do i do wrong?
[00:53] <bruce89> DrHalan1: how did you upload them?
[00:53] <DrHalan1> using dput. It said taht everything went fine
[00:54] <bruce89> gpg keys uploaded, ubuntero I assume
[00:54] <DrHalan1> ye
[00:54] <DrHalan1> but shouldn't there be a complaint or something?
[00:55] <bruce89> certainly seems a bit odd, I've never had any trouble
[00:55] <bruce89> I assume ~/.dput.cf is correct
[00:56] <DrHalan1> well the upload log always states "Successfully uploaded irrlicht_1.5.0-0ubuntu0~rzr1_amd64.changes to ppa.launchpad.net for kai."
[00:58] <DrHalan1> bruce89: i just tried to upload again and it says "already uploaded
[00:59] <bruce89> hmm
[01:00] <bruce89> can I have a link to your PPA page
[01:01] <DrHalan1> https://launchpad.net/~kai-mast/+archive/ppa
[01:02] <bruce89> not entirely interesting
[01:03] <bruce89> is the address in the packaging right?
[01:05] <DrHalan1> is that line correct bruce89 : "incoming = ~kai-mast/ubuntu/"
[01:06] <bruce89> ah, it's now ~kai-mast/ppa/ubuntu
[01:06] <DrHalan1> did taht line change too? "fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net"
[01:09] <bruce89> no
[01:10] <DrHalan1> okay ill try thank you very much :)
[01:16] <bruce89> np
[01:51] <ripps> Can someone here help me figure out why the git gmpc won't compile? http://paste.ubuntu.com/128035/
[01:55] <savvas> ripps: try #gmpc :)
[01:56] <ripps> oh, didn't know they had their own channel.
[01:57] <savvas> ripps: http://gmpc.wikia.com/wiki/GMPC_INSTALLATION
[02:04] <savvas> ripps: looks like you need: libtoolize; autoconf; automake
[02:04] <savvas> :)
[02:04] <savvas> but not 100% sure, just judging by the error messages
[02:38] <SnoFox> Okay then, where are the Jaunty kernel headers located?
[02:39] <JanC> SnoFox: in the usual place  ツ
[02:39] <bruce89> that's what I said on #ubuntu
[02:39]  * crdlb hides from that smiley
[02:39] <SnoFox> Yes I was trying to think up something funny to say... But meh.
[02:41] <JanC> SnoFox: do your have linux-headers-generic or linux-headers-server (or whatever kernel variant you have) installed?
[02:41] <SnoFox> Generic, methinks. I saw it update on Synaptic earlier. I found the folder...
[02:42] <JanC> if you have a generic kernel, you need the generic headers...
[02:42] <SnoFox> I wanted to say that the restricted Nvidia drivers available through the GUI crash the whole software. And I'm working on installing the ones that come straight from the site.
[02:42] <SnoFox> s/software/OS/
[02:42] <SnoFox> Both in Jaunty and Intrepid.
[02:43] <JanC> eh, sorry, no experience with nvidia
[02:44] <bruce89> ich, the "offical" ones from the site are even worse
[02:44] <SnoFox> JanC, 'tis fine. I don't really need help, but I thought I should make it known because it stumped me for a while why my computer would stop responding after X launched...
[02:44] <SnoFox> bruce89: The official ones from the site work great in Debian. Working on getting them installed on Ubuntu.
[02:45] <durt> anybody got googleearth working in jaunty (from medibuntu)?
[02:46] <crdlb> SnoFox: well, you're just installing the same thing ...
[02:46] <SnoFox> crdlb: Then is something wrong with the way the GUI installs it?
[02:47] <JanC> I guess no nvidia driver will ever work for everybody... :-/
[02:47] <crdlb> well, if you have a recent card, you can get 180.37 instead of 180.35 which fixes the bug where nvidia broke ^C
[02:47] <crdlb> but that's not going to kill X entirely
[02:47] <crdlb> SnoFox: what version did it install, and what GPU do you have?
[02:48] <SnoFox> Geez, I don't even remember anymore.
[02:48] <SnoFox> The driver is...
[02:49] <SnoFox> 172.
[02:49] <crdlb> 'lspci | grep -i vga' for the card
[02:49] <crdlb> you mean 173?
[02:49] <SnoFox> Er, yeah.
[02:49] <crdlb> if you have something 6 series or newer, you could try nvidia-glx-180
[02:50] <crdlb> with the broken keyboard interrupting :/
[02:50] <SnoFox> Integrated is a GeForce 6100 nForce, but the card I'm using, PCI, is a Geforce FX 5200.
[02:50] <crdlb> jockey made the right choice then
[02:51] <crdlb> maybe nvidia is trying to use the other gpu?
[02:51] <crdlb> is it disabled in the bios?
[02:51] <SnoFox> crdlb: No. The card is working fine, it's something Ubuntu-level. I booted straight from Debian, mutli-head setup working great on this very card, to Ubuntu freshly installed.
[02:52] <crdlb> what version nvidia driver did you use in debian?
[02:52] <SnoFox> Same file I have on my user's Desktop - 173.
[02:53] <crdlb> oh, just to clarify, that is also the version hardware drivers (jockey) installed?
[02:53] <crdlb> it's a bit annoying to debug nvidia issues on ubuntu because of BulletProofX
[02:53] <SnoFox> Jockey?
[02:53] <crdlb> the vesa X sessions clobber all the log files
[02:54] <crdlb> the hardware drivers manager
[02:54] <SnoFox> Jockey is the GUI I was using before, which had the driver crash the OS? :p
[02:54] <crdlb> yes
[02:54] <crdlb> the only way to figure out what is going wrong is to stop your dm (eg gdm) and run startx manually
[02:54] <SnoFox> Yeah, I remember it was 173.
[02:55] <crdlb> when it fails, back up the /var/log/Xorg.0.log to another file
[02:55] <crdlb> then you can restart gdm and pastebin it ...
[02:55] <SnoFox> I haven't tried recently, but I don't want to reinstall Ubuntu again...
[02:55] <SnoFox> No, X starts up, and kills the OS.
[02:55] <crdlb> ?
[02:55] <crdlb> "the OS"?
[02:55] <SnoFox> I can't switch ttys, num/caps/scroll lock won't even change.
[02:55] <SnoFox> Ubuntu.
[02:55] <SnoFox> I say "the OS" because it applies to all Ubuntu builds I've tried thus far.
[02:55] <crdlb> err, did you try the recovery console in grub?
[02:56] <SnoFox> Yeah. It still crashes after enabling the restricted driver, no matter what I try to reverse it.
[02:57] <crdlb> uh, I guess that could happen if the nvidia kernel module was completely broken
[02:57] <JanC> sell all your nvidia hardware, it sucks  :P
[02:57] <crdlb> since the linux-restricted-modules-common init script would still modprobe them
[02:57] <crdlb> which is nvidia's fault
[02:57] <SnoFox> JanC, shush.
[02:57] <crdlb> if they used DRI, X would modprobe them as needed ...
[02:58] <SnoFox> crdlb: Why does the module work fine if I install it manually, though?
[02:58] <crdlb> let me get out my crystal ball
[02:58] <SnoFox> :p
[02:58] <JanC> SnoFox: seriously, gfx issues, fakeraid issues, etc., I've been talking to people with nvidia hardware every day for 2 weeks I guess  :-(
[02:59] <Marco> I'm noticing a lot of apps bring up notifications on the upper-right hand corner of the screen
[02:59] <Marco> what are they using?
[02:59] <Marco> libnotify?
[02:59] <crdlb> nvidia makes horrible hardware other than the GPUs
[02:59] <crdlb> and horrible software for the GPUs ...
[02:59] <crdlb> Marco: yes, specifically the new notify-osd daemon
[02:59] <JanC> Marco: notify-osd
[02:59] <crdlb> an ubuntu production
[02:59] <SnoFox> I've never had a problem with Nvidia, except retarded hardware design and occasional Linux issues.
[03:00] <SnoFox> Retarded hardware design: Making S-Video piggyback off the second VGA, so you can have a maximum of 2 displays on a 3 port card no matter what...
[03:00] <JanC> anyway, 90% of hardware design is retarded  ;)
[03:00] <bruce89> which is why it makes no sense
[03:01] <crdlb> which we can mostly blame on Windows :)
[03:01] <SnoFox> Woo! Blame Windows!
[03:01] <bruce89> for notify-osd?
[03:02] <crdlb> unforunately not
[03:02] <crdlb> that's Apple's fault
[03:02] <JanC> notify-osd is fine for me
[03:02]  * bruce89 worried when Mark said "we're going to make Ubuntu look as good as OS X"
[03:02] <bruce89> I knew that meant "copy them"
[03:02] <Marco> notify-osd is a great
[03:03] <crdlb> it'll be fine in time for Karmic :)
[03:03] <bruce89> badly-designed fork
[03:03] <JanC> it's what was built next to it what wasn't well-thought-out
[03:03]  * Marco confesses to being a mactard
[03:03] <bruce89> the reason I was given for u-m appearing magically is that "Apple do it"
[03:03] <SnoFox> I actually like Aero.
[03:04] <Marco> u-m?
[03:04] <Marco> oh, update-manager
[03:04] <crdlb> yeah, somebody needs to take away his mac :>
[03:04] <dtchen> Laney: let me know (via memoserv) if pulseaudio_0.9.14-0ubuntu11~ppa6~ubuntu3 performs better (glitch-free is *enabled* in that one)
[03:04] <SnoFox> Too bad I figured out that Nautilus doesn't recruse into hidden directories so I lost my desktop theme...
[03:04] <Marco> ubuntu shouldn't try to be OS X, but there's a lot to learn from OS X from a usability point of view
[03:04] <SnoFox> On my reformat. :\
[03:04] <bruce89> my brother said it was nicked from Vista actually
[03:04] <crdlb> SnoFox: really?
[03:05] <JanC> I don't like Mac OS X because they fucked up the FHS
[03:05] <crdlb> ahem
[03:05] <SnoFox> crdlb: Indeed. I copied my /home directory onto my backup partition, and it left out all my hidden directories.
[03:05]  * SnoFox double checks to make sure he used ls -a
[03:06] <crdlb> worksforme
[03:06] <SnoFox> Yeah. So I don't have any of my configurations or themes. :(
[03:06] <crdlb> in a quick test
[03:06] <dtchen> SnoFox: another reason you want to use tar or rsync instead of cp [if you used cp]
[03:06] <Marco> JanC, have you seen gobolinux?
[03:06] <JanC> SnoFox: nautilus recurses in hidden direcotries if you tell it to show hidden directories
[03:06] <JanC> Marco: yes
[03:06] <crdlb> and I had hidden files off
[03:06] <SnoFox> dtchen: JanC: Forgot to do that... :P
[03:06] <JanC> Marco: but that's not what I mean
[03:08] <bruce89> all those brainstormers saying "change the filesystem structure" make me shudder
[03:08] <crdlb> SnoFox: I made a Foo/Bar/.baz/afile heirarchy on my desktop, then copied Bar to the desktop, then copied Foo by dnd with Ctrl
[03:08] <crdlb> all with show hidden files off
[03:08] <JanC> Marco: those Mac application images that Mac users like so much because they can copy applications around easily, they have the annoying habbit to copy files around on your system where they want them to be, but they never clean anything up
[03:09] <JanC> it's even worse than Windows installers
[03:09] <crdlb> people don't seem to realize that nobody else has shared libraries
[03:10] <Marco> bruce89, keeping applications in a self-contained directory wouldn't be a bad idea though
[03:10] <Marco> right now, when you install an applications, it's put in a bunch of different directories
[03:10] <bruce89> so what?
[03:10] <crdlb> except that none of that helps when two apps need different versions of a library
[03:11] <crdlb> now you're in DLL hell
[03:11] <Marco> config files in /etc, binaries in /usr/bin, libraries in /usr/lib
[03:11] <Marco> bruce89, it's also near impossible to keep two versions of a package at a time
[03:12] <bruce89> that'd be a pain to do though
[03:12] <Marco> without doing hacks like the ruby1.8 and ruby1.9 packages
[03:12] <crdlb> what's hacky about that?
[03:13] <Marco> crdlb, you need a new package everytime you want to install a new version
[03:13] <JanC> Marco: it's actually very possible if you know what you're doing...
[03:13] <Marco> it's not a solution
[03:13] <Marco> it's a hack for a specific applications
[03:13] <crdlb> eh? only if the ABI breaks
[03:13] <SandGorgon> ZeroInstall or nix are a good approach to a single-directory theory of packages
[03:13] <crdlb> python uses the same system
[03:13] <crdlb> it's just a primitive slots system
[03:13] <Marco> gobolinux basically does /Applications/irssi/0.9
[03:13] <bruce89> you don't need different versions of the same thing usually, apart from libraries
[03:13] <Marco> and there's different directories for the different versions
[03:14] <Marco> and they're completely self-contained
[03:14] <JanC> and you duplicate 80%
[03:14] <Marco> JanC, only if you want
[03:14] <crdlb> the FHS really works fine
[03:14] <SandGorgon> disk-space is cheap - i am completely in favor of single directory approach to installing stuff
[03:14] <crdlb> maybe a tweak or two would be good, but the idea is sound
[03:15] <crdlb> and how do app launchers get into /usr/share/applications ?
[03:15] <JanC> anyway, the problem with Mac OS X is that those "packages" copy around files to other directories and never clean them up
[03:15] <Marco> crdlb, I've lost more than one linux install to fubaring a few files
[03:15] <Marco> JanC, yes, that is a problem
[03:15] <crdlb> I install from source to /opt/someprefix
[03:16] <crdlb> that way my system is safe
[03:16] <Marco> crdlb, I usually do /usr/local
[03:16] <Marco> or ~/opt
[03:16] <crdlb> /opt/foo is better
[03:16] <crdlb> home is good though
[03:16] <JanC> depends on what you want
[03:16] <Marco> crdlb, the problem with /opt/foo is that it doesn't work too well when the package includes libraries you want available to other packages
[03:17] <crdlb> Marco: I wouldn't do that
[03:17] <crdlb> unless I'm installing those packages to /opt/foo too
[03:17] <crdlb> then I use PKG_CONFIG_PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH (and sometimes PYTHONPATH)
[03:17] <JanC> that's the whole point, if you want to use system packages, use /usr/local
[03:18] <JanC> if you want your own shit, use /opt
[03:18] <crdlb> I just don't see the point in /usr/local; everything in /usr already works together, the distro ensures that
[03:19] <JanC> you might want newer versions of something
[03:19] <crdlb> why?
[03:19] <JanC> because you need them?
[03:19] <crdlb> so put them in /opt :>
[03:19] <bruce89> you might compile something from source, but don't want the packaged version to be overwritten
[03:20] <crdlb> it's just annoying when you get cases in #ubuntu where somebody has installed a library in /usr/local
[03:20] <crdlb> which of course the system respects, and breaks packaged apps
[03:20] <Marco> crdlb, I use /usr/local to install stuff from source
[03:21] <crdlb> everything you install should be in its own prefix for easy rm'ing
[03:21] <JanC> crdlb: that's just a matter of asking the right questions  ;)
[03:21] <crdlb> eg, when I install all the compiz packages, I use /opt/compiz for all of them
[03:21] <Marco> I use apt for compiz
[03:21] <crdlb> and /opt/ephywebkit for playing with webkit and epiphany 2.27
[03:21] <bruce89> mind you, jhbuild builds gnome in /opt/gnome
[03:21] <crdlb> Marco: I do too; it's for developing/testing :)
[03:22] <Marco> ah, I see
[03:22] <Marco> crdlb, have you ever tried checkinstall?
[03:22] <crdlb> long ago, but I wouldn't touch it now
[03:22] <crdlb> I know better :)
[03:22] <Marco> :o
[03:22] <Marco> what do you mean?
[03:22] <crdlb> it makes bad packages
[03:22] <Marco> shame, it's a great concept
[03:23] <crdlb> if it could make good packages, we wouldn't need the ubuntu developers :)
[03:23] <JanC> well, it's fine for quick installs of packages that you *need* *now*
[03:24] <JanC> most of th time
[03:24] <crdlb> well, I recently replaced gentoo with ubuntu on this computer
[03:24] <crdlb> and I hadn't followed my advice on that install :)
[03:25] <JanC> crdlb: hah, you'll need apt-build then  ;)
[03:25] <Marco> gentoo, bad memories
[03:25]  * crdlb used -O2
[03:26] <Marco> I remember when I used gentoo for a few months and then changed back to debian sid
[03:26] <Marco> I was mesmerized by how fast I could install things
[03:27] <crdlb> or even search :x
[03:31] <JanC> ah well, I used both Ubuntu & CRUX on a Pentium MMX 166 MHz with 64 MiB RAM
[03:32] <JanC> and CRUX booted 5-10 faster
[03:32] <DanaG> P2 266 with 128 megs of RAM... useful?
[03:32] <JanC> but it took me 12 hours to compile Firefox  ;)
[03:32] <Marco> crdlb, even with a core 2 quad, I remember installing gnome being a painful experience
[03:32] <Marco> and if you ran ~x86, you almost always got some compiler error you had to look up online to fix
[03:33] <JanC> OTOH, booting Ubuntu took about 5 minutes :P
[03:33] <Marco> JanC, you could have used your minimal gentoo kernel with ubuntu
[03:33] <JanC> and my CRUX Setup took < 1 minute
[03:33] <Marco> *crux
[03:34] <JanC> it's not (only) the kernel
[03:34] <JanC> CRUX uses an old-style BSD init
[03:35] <JanC> and other stuff is very minimal too
[03:35] <DanaG> ooh: http://francois.vogelweith.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=3&Itemid=14
[03:35] <JanC> no udev or other automounting (back then)
[03:44] <DanaG> oh yeah, nouveau on the nv17 finally no longer devours CPU time.
[03:55] <SnoFox> crdlb: Don't happen to still be here? :D
[03:55] <crdlb> I do
[03:56] <SnoFox> Oh neat.
[03:57] <SnoFox> I used Jockey to install the restricted driver again, and Jaunty didn't crash... Only X can't find a device, it says.
[03:57] <crdlb> and it did install 173?
[03:58] <crdlb> as 180 would break in that manner
[03:58] <SnoFox> That's what I clicked on, so I assume so. How would I be sure it installed 173
[03:58] <SnoFox> Missed the question mark.
[03:59] <crdlb> see which packages are installed of nvidia-glx-173 and nvidia-glx-180
[04:00] <SnoFox> Um...
[04:00] <SnoFox> I never figured that out, oddly.
[04:00] <SnoFox> How to see which packages are installed. :p
[04:00] <crdlb> apt-cache policy nvidia-glx-173 nvidia-glx-180
[04:01] <SnoFox> I see.
[04:01] <SnoFox> Yes, 173 is installed.
[04:03] <SnoFox> So this is an Nvidia-kernel problem? :\
[04:03] <crdlb> when you say X can't find a device, that's what NVIDIA says in the log?
[04:03] <crdlb> if it were a kernel problem, the log would say that instead
[04:03] <SnoFox> In the startx command, all is well until: "No devices detected"
[04:04] <SnoFox> Then: "Fatal server error: no screens found"
[04:04] <crdlb> did you copy the Xorg.0.log ?
[04:04] <crdlb> I'd like to see that
[04:04] <SnoFox> Let me install apache really quick... I have no way to copy/paste or pastebin.
[04:05] <crdlb> apache?
[04:05] <crdlb> you could use pastebinit :)
[04:05] <SnoFox> What's that?
[04:05] <crdlb> !info pastebinit
[04:05] <SnoFox> Meh.
[04:05] <SnoFox> `cp` sounds easier.
[04:07] <crdlb> pastebinit /path/to/file
[04:08] <SnoFox> http://snofox.net/Xorg.0.log
[04:10] <crdlb> so I guess it can't make a decision ...
[04:10] <crdlb> you could use a BusID line in Section "Device"
[04:11] <crdlb> looks like you want "PCI:1:8:0"
[04:11] <SnoFox> How would I fetch the BusID I'm supposed to... First, how did you read my mind, second, how did you know where to find that? xD
[04:12] <crdlb> I looked at man xorg.conf + the bus ids listed at the top of the log
[04:13] <SnoFox> You're good. You're very good.
[04:14] <SnoFox> So in device: BusID "PCI:1:8:0" ?
[04:14] <crdlb> yes
[04:14] <SnoFox> Okay.
[04:14]  * SnoFox attempts to start X.
[04:15] <SnoFox> Hey crdlb, you're awesome.
[04:15] <SnoFox> And attentive.
[04:15] <crdlb> :>
[04:15] <SnoFox> I'mma reboot really quick to be sure it works. :)
[04:16] <SnoFox> startx worked, so yeah.
[04:18] <SnoFox> Win!
[04:18] <SnoFox> Now to get my second monitor up again. :)
[04:18] <crdlb> you should probably file that bug, btw
[04:19] <SnoFox> Where, might I ask?
[04:19] <crdlb> I guess normally, you're supposed to get failsafe, so it's not a _huge_ deal
[04:19] <crdlb> in launchpad
[04:19]  * SnoFox looks around absently.
[04:19] <SnoFox> Failsafe had a log in /var/log as well.
[04:20] <crdlb> ideally, I guess nvidia should just pick one, but since we live in the real world, jockey should pick one and put the BusID in, I guess :/
[04:21] <SnoFox> I bet I'll find the place by Googling "Ubuntu Launchpad"? :p
[04:21] <crdlb> launchpad.net :)
[04:22] <SnoFox> Oh. :x
[04:22] <SnoFox> Ah kay. I'll do that soon. First, I need to install a bunch of stuff...
[04:22] <SnoFox> I need my music... It's been to quiet for the past couple hours.
[04:23] <SnoFox> I'll come back shortly to chat. I need to mess with GNOME a bit. :p
[04:57] <SnoFox> Working great!
[04:57] <SnoFox> :D
[05:20] <bruce89> !info gvim
[05:21] <rww> bruce89: You probably want vim-gnome or vim-gtk. Not sure what the difference is.
[05:21] <bruce89> yup, so I see
[05:40] <DanaG> ugh, no space left on device... wtf?
[05:42] <bruce89> ext4?
[05:42] <wgrant> DanaG: ext4?
[05:42] <wgrant> Gah.
[05:42] <wgrant> I had that problem.
[05:42] <wgrant> Rebooting once or twice fixes it.
[05:42] <wgrant> Although it was symptomatic of a bigger problem.
[05:43] <wgrant> (the FS was created as ext4dev, and one of the older kernels broke it somehow)
[05:43]  * crdlb coughs
[06:06] <virtuald> i have an ati card. if i upgrade to the alpha now, can i watch video?
[06:08] <rww> virtuald: depends on which card you have. If it's one of the ones that requires fglrx to watch videos, then no.
[06:10] <crdlb> well, XVideo works with the radeon driver on all cards afaik
[06:10] <crdlb> tear-free!
[06:11] <DanaG> hmm, not for r600 if you want working suspend-to-RAM.
[06:11] <crdlb> that's a big if :)
[06:11] <crdlb> it does work though, right?
[06:11] <DanaG> Which?  Enabling acceleration breaks resume from suspend.
[06:12] <DanaG> To me, the latter is more valuable.
[06:12] <crdlb> textured XVideo
[06:12] <rww> DanaG: How do you enable/disable acceleration for r600 with the radeon driver?
[06:12] <DanaG> you edit xorg.conf -- the "DRI" line.  You may also have to use the tormodvolden PPA.
[06:14] <rww> DanaG: I assume so. I don't think the Jaunty version of radeon has acceleration for r6xx yet.
[06:15]  * DanaG just wishes it had power management, so it didn't suck 10 more watts than when in Windows.
[06:15] <crdlb> DanaG: did you use the macro this time?
[06:15] <DanaG> nope.
[06:15] <DanaG> No macro.
[06:15] <DanaG> =þf
[06:15] <DanaG> uh, that 'f' wasn't intentional...
[06:16] <DanaG> ... now I have to figure out what it looks like.  =þ
[06:16] <DanaG> nevermind.
[06:20] <SnoFox> Before I get in the mindset that this won't break, will ext4 break on me in Jaunty?
[06:21] <crdlb> it might
[06:21] <virtuald> thank you.. i'll try the open drivers on intrepid now. i have an rv570 (x1950 pro)
[06:21] <crdlb> virtuald: oh, it'll certainly provide 3d for you then
[06:21] <virtuald> 3d?
[06:22] <virtuald> o.O
[06:22] <crdlb> virtuald: and I have bad news: there will probably never be a fglrx for you on jaunty
[06:22] <DanaG> oh yeah, ext4 periodically gives me "disk full".
[06:22] <virtuald> ok
[06:22]  * DanaG is in an odd place: will have R600 support in next fglrx, whenever that happens to be -- but has had fglrx itself be broken even in Intrepid!
[06:22] <crdlb> fglrx has dropped support for anything below r600 in the upcoming 9.4 release
[06:22] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/314600
[06:22] <virtuald> i hope there's power mangement in radeonhd now
[06:22] <DanaG> Not yet.
[06:22] <DanaG> At least for mine.
[06:22] <crdlb> with an R500, you want radeon
[06:23] <virtuald> ok
[06:23] <DanaG> Maybe for yours, there will be.
[06:23] <crdlb> I don't think there's any for anybody
[06:23] <crdlb> my card uses no power anyway ...
[06:26] <virtuald> so when are we getting real ati support?
[06:26] <crdlb> when the driver is finished? :)
[06:27] <crdlb> but keep in mind that you will _never_ be able to use fglrx in jaunty
[06:27] <virtuald> open source is never finished :)
[06:27] <crdlb> unless ATI does an about-face
[06:27] <virtuald> so maybe i should stay with intrepid?
[06:27] <crdlb> they claim that fglrx 9.3, which will be the last release supporting R500 will not support XServer 1.6 (because they hate their users apparently)
[06:28] <crdlb> or at least phoronix claims they claim ... :)
[06:28] <virtuald> ok
[06:28] <virtuald> sauce?
[06:29] <crdlb> for my purposes, an R500 in a desktop would run fine with the radeon driver now
[06:29] <crdlb> but your purposes may be different :)
[06:29] <virtuald> found it
[06:29] <virtuald> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_r500_legacy&num=1
[06:29] <virtuald> i'll try it
[06:29] <crdlb> particularly if you're the kind of peerson who gets an X1950 pro :)
[06:30] <virtuald> well my brother moved abroad so i got his computer
[06:30] <crdlb> heh
[06:31] <crdlb> I remember when the top of the line cards were ATI X1950 pro and nvidia 8800 GTX
[06:31] <crdlb> so long ago now
[06:31] <virtuald> i lost track a long time ago
[06:32] <virtuald> i don't play much games or buy much hardware anyway
[06:34] <virtuald> aticonfig --od-gettemperature doesn't work for me and the fan is manually controlled, that's why i worry about power management
[06:44] <DanaG> Last card I had in a laptop was a Go 7600.
[06:44] <DanaG> Before that, I had a desktop with a 9800 Pro.
[06:44] <DanaG> ... and before that, a 7500.
[06:45] <DanaG> ... and before that, a 3dfx Voodoo3 2000 PCI.
[06:45] <DanaG> Still have all of those around.
[06:46] <crdlb> yay, 7500
[06:51] <DanaG> Another fun thing you can do with radeon open-source driver: xrandr transformations -- once you enable acceleration.
[06:51] <DanaG> You can mirror (not just rotate, but actually mirror!).
[06:51] <DanaG> You may also be able to feed it arbitrary transform matrices... but last time I tried that, the xrandr command-line utility just segfaulted.
[06:51] <DanaG> To get back to normal: xrandr -o 0
[06:51] <DanaG> lowercase o, zero.
[06:52]  * crdlb uses dejavu sans mono for irc
[06:52] <DanaG> DejaVu fonts rock, with subpixel hinting.
[06:52] <DanaG> ... especially on a really high DPI display like mine (147DPI).
[06:52] <crdlb> :<
[06:53] <DanaG> Gnome apps tend to scale usually pretty well.
[06:53] <DanaG> Windows apps... tend to get cut off.
[06:53] <DanaG> And Apple apps.... don't even bother trying.  At all.
[06:53]  * DanaG hits sleep button (yes, acceleration disabled), and goes off to bed himself.
[06:53] <DanaG> Sat Mar  7 22:53:34 PST 2009
[06:53] <DanaG> DST switch tomorrow morning.
[06:54] <crdlb> an hour away for me :o
[07:19] <crdlb> oops, it was only 6 minutes away
[09:35] <lucypher> Hi, how do I get a log for NetworkManager? ca't find it...
[09:40] <lucypher> I've found it by myself...daemon.log
[10:22] <matt______> Hi - is skype in the repos?
[10:27] <fargiolas> any news about python dependencies? I'm beginning to miss gwibber
[10:48] <geser> fargiolas: it should become installable again when python-webkitgtk leaves the NEW queue
[10:50] <fargiolas> geser: ok, thanks
[13:47] <LSD200> heya all
[13:48] <a3Dman> hi
[13:49] <LSD200> quick Q - i know it's buggy atm jaunty but is it a known issue with the applets and panels crashing / not showing properly?
[13:58] <charlie-tca> panels, yes
[13:58] <charlie-tca> applets, I think it depends on which one
[14:02] <LSD200> cool cheers charlie-tca I'll stop going insane then :p
[14:03] <Hobbsee> LSD200: what does it look like?
[14:03] <LSD200> my panels just won't update all the time
[14:04] <LSD200> wasn't sure if it was an issue with the drivers and SLI or an issue with jaunty itself
[14:06] <Hobbsee> oh
[14:06] <Hobbsee> haven't seen that, then
[14:07] <LSD200> i call it not showing properly because at logon sometimes the aplets on the panels just don't show
[14:07] <LSD200> it's not as tho the machine is short on spec to show them
[14:08] <charlie-tca> Kinda like they got lost?
[14:08] <LSD200> if i right click where they should be i get the pop menu for them
[14:09] <LSD200> btw this is on a rig with 8GB RAM, quad core, and SLI 9800GTX+
[14:10] <LSD200> anyway gonna leave this rig running and see what new surprises jaunty has for me when i get back
[15:02] <ingenius> Hi ! ..
[15:03] <LSD200> hi ingenius
[15:04] <ingenius> I'm installed the last alpha and runs perfect but and I found one missing idiot package , modem-manager for NetworkManager ...
[15:15] <charlie-tca> May not have caught up in alpha yet
[15:19] <ingenius> Probably, but the solution was copy the files from other system :)
[15:22] <gnomefreak> Wicla are you here?
[15:23] <Wicla> mhm?
[15:30] <gnomefreak> Wicla: sorry wrong nick
[15:31] <Wicla> as i thought :P
[15:38] <LSD200> now the panels work again :/
[16:33] <bardyr> has canonical any special relations with AMD, so they can get a beta of the future 9.4 catalyst driver, it should be very bad if xserver 1.6 support for ati chips first came in april
[16:35] <filthpig> Hi. I've noticed Miro wont install on jaunty because of a conflict in pyhton. That is, miro needs python (>2.6), but with jaunty 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 will be installed... Should I report this somewhere?
[16:37] <geser> filthpig: bug 336029
[16:39] <filthpig> ah, thanks
[16:39] <gnomefreak> geser: that is ok since jaunty has >2.6
[16:39] <gnomefreak> 2.6.1 == >2.6
[16:39] <filthpig> I'll just wait for the updated build, then
[16:45] <aguai> 假牙掉下來
[16:49] <geser> gnomefreak: and how does python 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 fullfil miro's dependency on python (<< 2.6)?
[16:50] <gnomefreak> oh its <<? i read the above (>2.6), but with jaunty
[16:50] <gnomefreak> i havent looked into miro im working on sunbird atm
[16:51] <gnomefreak> python (<< 2.6), python (>= 2.5),
[16:52] <gnomefreak> yep thats the issue. i was just going on the first comment about the problem
[16:52] <geser> gnomefreak: and fixing it doesn't seem to be easy as python-boost pulls in python2.6 while miro doesn't work with python2.6 yet (upstream issue)
[16:53] <geser> at least that's what I understand from the bug report
[16:53] <gnomefreak> ofcourse why would it be easy
[16:53] <gnomefreak> not sure fta at one time was working on it atleast for PPA but not sure if he still is
[16:55] <gnomefreak> ill be back for some reason dpkg-build.... fails to apply autoconf patch but bzr builddeb works let me find out what is going on here
[16:55] <Ging> is it possible to break a system in good ways?
[16:55] <gnomefreak> break by defintion == bad
[16:56]  * gnomefreak gone now
[16:56] <Ging> that's what i thought
[17:23] <xtknight> anyone with multiple audio adapters?  when you change the primary mixer track under Sound Properties, does it lose your choice on reboot?
[17:53] <Finnish> Should Me-TV work in Jaunty? I can't scan channes, but in Kaffeine I can. I'm using a Anysee digi-tv-card
[18:11] <Zeroyez> oops
[18:11] <Zeroyez> has anyone managed to get catalyst 9.2 working?
[18:26] <crdlb> Zeroyez: it doesn't support xserver 1.6
[18:27] <crdlb> and phoronix claims that fglrx 9.3 won't either
[18:31] <Zeroyez> can i downgrade xserver?
[18:55] <eternal_p> hey guys..quick question I have multiple desktops setup via compiz..whenever I click on anything other than the first desktop, I lose everything, the desktop is blank and I cannot do anything...any thoughts?
[18:56] <crdlb> when you say "desktops", you just mean workspaces, right? (which are implemented as viewport pages)
[18:57] <eternal_p> crdlb: correct
[18:57] <crdlb> huh
[18:57] <crdlb> does this happen with ctrl+alt+right too?
[18:58] <eternal_p> ctrl-alt-right doesnt work at all
[18:59] <crdlb> in Desktop Wall or Desktop Cube enabled in ccsm?
[19:00] <eternal_p> crdlb: the cube is enabled
[19:01] <crdlb> try disabling that and enabling Desktop Wall
[19:06] <eternal_p> crdlb: no dice
[20:08] <Assid> yello
[20:08]  * Assid is back
[20:13] <savvas> Does anyone have ext4 for root "/" partition and faced a problem with any package upgrade in jaunty?
[20:14] <savvas> (where the easy solution was to delete it from the /var/cache/apt/archives/ ?)
[20:26] <gotiniens> savvas, nope no problems here
[20:27] <bruce89> savvas: fine here after installing grub2
[20:34] <savvas> gotiniens, bruce89: ok, thanks :)
[22:16] <DrHalan> is there already a working fglrx?
[22:18] <crdlb> no
[22:18] <crdlb> and supposedly 9.3 won't work either when it's released
[22:18] <crdlb> what GPU do you have?
[22:19] <DrHalan> oh i dont use jaunty on my ati machine yet be cause of that but its a Mobility Radeon x1600
[22:20] <DrHalan> i already tried radeonhd but didnt work with 3d stuff  yet :(
[22:20] <DrHalan> at least on intrepid
[22:20] <tiagoboldt> I there, I need to get the fglrx driver to work on jaunty, do I have to compile it myself, or is there a way to force the compilation through dkms or something??
[22:20] <crdlb> DrHalan: don't use radeonhd, you want radeon
[22:22] <crdlb> DrHalan: also, there will probably never be a fglrx that'll work for you in jaunty :/
[22:22] <tiagoboldt> ohh, I guess I've just arrived in time, since you're discussing fglrx
[22:22] <crdlb> since 9.3 is the last release for r500, and ATI claims it won't support xserver 1.6
[22:22] <crdlb> there is no way to get it to work other than downgrading X
[22:23] <LSD200> have any of you guys tried to get wallpaper-tray working?
[22:23] <crdlb> tiagoboldt: if you have an r600 or r700, then fglrx 9.4 should work once that is released (in april :/)
[22:23] <tiagoboldt> I really need to have hardware rendering, on a hd3650
[22:24] <tiagoboldt> crdlb, sure thing, but I kinda need it now, manual install??
[22:24] <crdlb> tiagoboldt: it will not work
[22:24] <crdlb> unless you downgrade X to intrepid's version, and I've never attempted anything like that on ubuntu
[22:26] <tiagoboldt> ohh, I didn't knew, the driver is incompatible with the X, right?
[22:26] <tiagoboldt> darn ;\ even with the open driver?
[22:26] <crdlb> yes, xserver 1.6
[22:27] <crdlb> radeon won't give you (much) 3d acceleration on r600/r700
[22:27] <DrHalan> crdlb: i know that :S
[22:27] <DrHalan> so i guess ill stay on jautny iwth that machine
[22:27] <crdlb> assuming you mean intrepid, that's probably a good idea
[22:28] <tiagoboldt> crdlb, tks ;)
[22:29] <tiagoboldt> I'll switch to to radeonhd meanwhile, and i'll upgrade later :)
[22:29]  * crdlb would use radeon
[22:30] <tiagoboldt> even though it's an hdxxxx?
[22:30] <crdlb> radeon supports all radeon cards
[22:31] <crdlb> I really don't know why novell bothered with radeonhd
[22:31] <tiagoboldt> than that's what i'll use for now : )
[22:31] <tiagoboldt> tks crdlb
[22:31] <tiagoboldt> bye*
[22:32]  * genii ponders to what degree his AIWHD3650PM will work
[22:34] <DrHalan> but crdlb isnt r500 supported by radeonhd?
[22:34] <LSD200> prolly at least 100C
[22:35] <thehook> anyone been using gimp lately? I am experiencing a lot of crashing..
[22:36] <bruce89> thehook: I heard others were finding that
 bruce89: gimp + jaunty = 100% crash within 5 minutes
[22:37] <DrHalan> what?
[22:37] <thehook> how a bout the computer restart X and bring me back to gdm after i inster a usb mouse? anyone else tested?
[22:38] <DrHalan> gimp has never crashed for me in ever..
[22:39] <thehook> bruce89: i think that was a bit unaccurate, it works until i do something in the rightclick menus on a big file, 5sec or 5 hours.. well, i must admit i have used it for maximum half an hour on a small (400x400) file before a crash occoured :P
[22:40] <keith_> Is this the correct place to talk about kubuntu too?
[22:41] <bruce89> no need for a right click menu any more
[22:41] <thehook> keith_: as long as it is kubuntu jaunty it is as far as i know :)
[22:42] <keith_> thehook: Thanks, it seemed to redirect me here whene I tried to join #kubuntu+1
[22:42] <thehook> bruce89: how so?
[22:42] <sebsebseb> keith_: nope #kubuntu
[22:42] <bruce89> surely just the same as the main menu
[22:42] <thehook> sebsebseb: for 9.04 jaunty?
[22:42] <sebsebseb> yes
[22:43] <sebsebseb> then correct place
[22:43] <thehook> ok
[22:43] <keith_> there or here?
[22:43] <thehook> bruce89: yes, but what about rightclicking a layer for "alpha to selection"? :P
[22:43] <bruce89> ah
[22:43] <sebsebseb> I  like to get stuff early, but not to early, and yes I can deal with bugs.  apparantly the current alpha is pretty stable?
[22:44] <keith_> Seems pretty stable, but I am having an issue with Kubuntu that I wanted to ask someone about
[22:44] <crdlb> DrHalan: yes radeonhd support r500 and up
[22:44] <keith_> were you saying I should go to #kubuntu for 9.04?
[22:44] <crdlb> DrHalan: but the r500 is _much_ closer to the older r300/400 than it is to r600/700
[22:44] <sebsebseb> no
[22:45] <sebsebseb> stay here
[22:45] <DrHalan> okay :)
[22:45] <sebsebseb> for that
[22:45] <keith_> ok, lol
[22:45] <thehook> keith_: what program do you experience problems with? if its kde or something it #kubuntu
[22:45] <keith_> now you are saying opposite things again, lol
[22:45] <nikolam> is it freaking normal that my video gets stuck on 2.5Ghz machine, when update is done??
[22:46] <crdlb> DrHalan: also, novell laid off the main radeonhd developer, so I'd say it's finally dead
[22:46] <nikolam> why freakin instlling packages in background get picture and user appts to be locked for.. seconds??
[22:46] <DrHalan> its dead before being finished?
[22:46] <keith_> It seems to be Plasma related, though I am not very familiar with KDE. Sometiems when I try to open programs, it looks like they are opening but they never do... then if I try again to open it, Plasma seems to freeze so that I can't click the panel or move any of the widgets.
[22:48] <thehook> keith_: i have been having a lot of trouble with that also, but i actually think they know more about that in #kubuntu :)
[22:48] <keith_> thehook: I'll try, thanks. lol
[22:49] <LSD200> heh was one of the reasons i moved away from kubuntu
[22:49] <keith_> I have been an avid Gnome user, but I thought I would give KDE another chance
[22:50] <thehook> keith_: me too, but after plaing around with kde 4.2 on jaunty, i'm back using gnome :P
[22:51] <sebsebseb> ah ha yeah as I thought, can get sort of Ext4 suppourt on Ext3 with jaunty, but is that  really worth it?  http://kyleabaker.com/2009/02/23/how-to-upgrade-to-ubuntu-904-and-ext4/
[22:51] <keith_> sebsebseb: I am running ext4 right now, lol
[22:51] <sebsebseb> keith_: a clean install?
[22:52] <keith_> sebsebseb: Yes
[22:52] <sebsebseb> keith_: well I don't just want to clean install
[22:52] <sebsebseb> right now
[22:52] <crdlb> I would recommend just waiting until you do a fresh install
[22:52] <sebsebseb> keith_: so just standard Ext3 or this sort of thing
[22:52] <keith_> sebsebseb: ah, well... yeah. I guess there is some forward compatibility.
[22:52] <sebsebseb> crdlb: why?
[22:52] <crdlb> why not?
[22:53] <sebsebseb> apparnatlly Ext4 is still buggy as well, external kernel suppourt
[22:53] <sebsebseb> experimental
[22:53] <keith_> Ext4 wouldn't be causing my problems with Plasma, would it? :-p
[22:53] <crdlb> if you try to use ext4 with an ext3 fs, you're going to be using less tested code without most of the improvements :)
[22:53] <sebsebseb> crdlb: that sounds about right
[22:54] <sebsebseb> Ext4 faster speed?  will I even notice with only 1GB RAM?
[22:54] <sebsebseb> on 32bit of course
[22:54] <sebsebseb> jaunty has the latest XFCE?
[22:55] <keith_> Could Ext4 cause problems with Plasma? Anyone know? I am not familiar with FileSystem bug symptoms.
[22:55] <crdlb> the only bug I've heard of is one where it decides that your FS is full
[22:56] <crdlb> and you have to reboot to fix it
[22:56] <keith_> weird
[22:56] <keith_> Can filesystem bugs be fixed through patches? Or would you have to re-format?
[22:57] <crdlb> hopefully, they won't screw up the layout of the disk ;)
[22:57] <crdlb> so it would just be an update to the code
[22:57] <keith_> That's what I thought. lol
[22:57] <keith_> I was using ReiserFS before
[22:58] <keith_> Don't ask me why though
[22:58] <sebsebseb> MurderFS
[22:58] <sebsebseb> not sure if Ext4 is worth reinstalling in my case
[22:58] <keith_> I have had no problems with ReiserFS
[22:58] <sebsebseb> and if I am to clean install then it will be the final
[22:58] <keith_> sebsebseb: I will probably re-install when final is released
[22:59]  * crdlb will wait until karmic before he considers ext4
[22:59] <sebsebseb> karmic?????
[22:59] <keith_> awwww... Plasma died again
[23:00] <sebsebseb> anyway Ext3 will be the default file system still, since it's so mature, and Ext4 is buggy?
[23:01] <keith_> Ext4 will be considered as the default for 9.10 based on user feedback
[23:01] <sebsebseb> ah ha
[23:01] <sebsebseb> so it might be the default
[23:01] <crdlb> not in 9.04
[23:01] <sebsebseb> oh 9.10
[23:01] <sebsebseb> yeah and by then it will be less buggy as well
[23:02] <sebsebseb> maybe that's the time to clean install in my case
[23:02] <sebsebseb> there will be more articles and such about Ext4 in Jaunty that's something I am waiting for as well
[23:03] <thehook> isn't 9.10 going to be a lts release? or am i completely wrong
[23:03] <crdlb> probably 10.04
[23:03] <sebsebseb> number system is weird
[23:03] <crdlb> just based upon the pattern
[23:03] <sebsebseb> the names that's fine that's differnet
[23:03] <sebsebseb> ,but the number system is weird
[23:03] <keith_> They do a LTS every 2 years
[23:04] <sebsebseb> yeah poor KDE3 on the verge of dieing :(  RIP KDE3
[23:04] <sebsebseb> ok  I mainly went with Gnome, but still
[23:04] <thehook> sebsebseb: why? 9 is for 2009 and 04 is for april :P
[23:04] <crdlb> 2-3 officially, but doing it at 11.04 would be a bit painful for hardy users
[23:04] <sebsebseb> thehook:  oh it's done by year and month now I see
[23:04] <genii> thehook: 6.04 (6.06),8.04,10.04      etc LTS
[23:05] <keith_> Always has been done by month and year, lol
[23:05] <sebsebseb> so  I started on 4.10  it must have been
[23:05] <sebsebseb> second Ubuntu release
[23:05] <bruce89> 5.04 then
[23:05] <crdlb> the second release was 5.04
[23:05] <sebsebseb> before that Fedora Core 2 and 4 :)
[23:05] <keith_> Think they will change the system at some point? like version... 20.04?
[23:05] <crdlb> nah, they can pretty much keep it up forever
[23:05] <keith_> lol
[23:05] <crdlb> at least 1000 years :)
[23:05] <keith_> but it starts looking weird
[23:05] <sebsebseb> no Ubuntu in 1000 years I expect
[23:06] <keith_> Why not?
[23:06] <sebsebseb> Ubuntu will be mentioned in the cmoputer history musuem
[23:06] <keith_> lol
[23:06] <keith_> Ubuntu will never die!!
[23:06] <bruce89> 1020.04
[23:06] <keith_> Think Windows will ever go away?
[23:06] <sebsebseb> 80000.10
[23:06] <sebsebseb> Windows may f off and die one day yes :D
[23:06] <keith_> or will it haunt our dreams forever?
[23:07] <sebsebseb> ReactOS will be developed enough one day :D
[23:07] <thehook> keith_: yep, absolutely! microsoft has been talking about creating a non windows os the last year(s) because of the bad reputation
[23:07] <bruce89> Holly will surely be the future
[23:07] <sebsebseb> and so those that didn't go Linux, BSD, or Unix, may go ReactOS then
[23:07] <sebsebseb> oh OS X
[23:07] <keith_> and will we continue to hate Windows it even if it becomes decent?
[23:07] <sebsebseb> or that didn't go OS X
[23:07] <sebsebseb> Windows maybe won't become that decant
[23:07] <sebsebseb> ,but ReactOS will I expect
[23:07] <keith_> lol
[23:08] <sebsebseb> that will be like an open source version of Windows
[23:08] <keith_> What is ReactOS?
[23:08] <sebsebseb> very alpha stage at the moment
[23:08] <sebsebseb> http://www.reactos.org
[23:08] <keith_> Who runs the project?
[23:08] <sebsebseb> even though it's been around quite a lot of years
[23:08] <sebsebseb> they don't have enough developers
[23:08] <sebsebseb> and it uses some code from wine
[23:08] <sebsebseb> ,but they made their own windows like kernel and that
[23:09] <keith_> oh... Plasma starts responding again... but still doesn't open the program
[23:09] <bruce89> one Windows is bad enough
[23:09] <sebsebseb> GNU/Linux was meant to be a Unix alternative/replacement and  ReactOS will be a Windows alternative/replacement
[23:09] <sebsebseb> it's not Windows
[23:09] <sebsebseb> it's done by the open source community
[23:10] <bruce89> I know, I just thought I'd say something
[23:10] <sebsebseb> hopefully open source community can make a better Windows than MS,  I expect they can, it will just take time
[23:10] <sebsebseb> ,but by the time ReactOS is mature enough Wine will be as well
[23:10] <sebsebseb> ,but even so  not everyone will want Linux, Unix, or OS X
[23:10] <keith_> Wine does so much.... and yet so little
[23:10] <keith_> lol
[23:11] <sebsebseb> Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD, but  only proper computer people ever call it a Unix
[23:27] <eternal_p> hey all..I am having some problems with Compiz and my nvidia card, I have tried the cube and desktop wall, accessing any other "desktop" means I lose all my icons as well as my panels, I have to reboot to get any of it back
[23:28] <LSD200> join the club
[23:28] <eternal_p> LSD200: is it known bug in launchpad ?
[23:28] <LSD200> not sure - not been able to prove it fully yet
[23:29] <LSD200> but i think it's a setting rather than the app
[23:33] <nikolam> Can someone answer me, why my video is twitching and apps waits for SECONDS while update installation is done?
[23:33] <nikolam> i miss several seconds of video etc when install is doing its job
[23:33] <nikolam> that goes to every package install
[23:36] <nikolam> do i need to use real time kernel to avoid such applications lockups
[23:36] <bruce89> Jaunty?
[23:36] <nikolam> What if my user application is so important to me, so much more important then fast freakin update
[23:36] <nikolam> Yes Jaunty
[23:36] <nikolam> but all previous ones too
[23:37] <bruce89> I've never noticed that
[23:37] <bruce89> but u-m is fat
[23:37] <nikolam> well do install, play some video sound or something and watch when update is done
[23:37] <nikolam> also i use software raid
[23:38] <bruce89> I suppose installing stuff is quite IO intensive
[23:38] <nikolam> i noticed also on hardy that every intensive Hdd operation locka all other applications for seconds
[23:38] <nikolam> like there is actually no multitasking for disk operations
[23:38] <nikolam> bruce89, but what installing stuff have to do with video?
[23:39] <bruce89> they both require IO
[23:39] <nikolam> it is some kind kernel bug that reduces disk preority of all other applications to zero
[23:40] <nikolam> i use it as desktop and i see it as horrible thing. Every single app is twitching like dieing rhino.
[23:40]  * bruce89 didn't know there was any IO priority system
[23:40] <bruce89> apart from ionice
[23:40] <LSD200> nikolam: i did notice something with the software raid other day - just make sure they aren't running constant verify
[23:40] <nikolam> so mulititasking is thing to forget, What about rt kernel?
[23:41] <nikolam> also my jaunty is installed on sda2 not on raid..
[23:41] <nikolam> but behaves the same
[23:41] <bruce89> well, RAID afaik needs to have stuff written twice
[23:41] <LSD200> depends on how it's all setup bruce89
[23:42] <nikolam> bruce89, its all beside point. i feel it in my user experience, like multitasking stops working completely when some disk-intensive background process is running
[23:42] <nikolam> like that update
[23:42] <nikolam> Also every morning, that update thing for slocate does the same lock.
[23:42] <LSD200> you can tell raid system to write imediately and then tell OS it's written or immediately tell the OS it's written and then write it
[23:43] <bruce89> nikolam: certainly it seems odd
[23:43] <bruce89> !raid
[23:43] <nikolam> LSD200, but is obviously happens with or without raid on /
[23:43] <nikolam> its 64bit
[23:44] <nikolam> Ok, should I try to use RT kernel? Is it advisable?
[23:44] <LSD200> tbh i don't know how the kernel talks to sata drives and any raid chips on the way
[23:44] <LSD200> a lot of sata chips are raid chips aswell
[23:46] <nikolam> LSD200, that is fake raid . All mobo chips are fake raid / dmraid
[23:46] <nikolam> I am saying the same thing is going one even without raid being used.
[23:46] <nikolam> So is seems it is something lower
[23:47] <nikolam> eather disk usage priority or some kind of sata chipset bug, like you suggested
[23:47] <nikolam> I have 690g chipset with S600 south bridge, i think
[23:47] <nikolam> Amdx2, seagate hdds
[23:48] <nikolam> ok, i will not bother the channel anymore.