[01:49] <JontheEchidna> There is a known startup crash in 4.2.1
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> I have searched for the patch but unsuccessfully unfortunately
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> a|wen: Have you done anything about kde4bindings yet? If not I can
[01:56] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: He said he planned on it tomorrow.
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> I could do it tonight. The mono/cli packages in debian/control just need commenting out or removing
[01:56] <ScottK> We took care of kdebindings in Jaunty today.
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> Great, that should fix all of our python issues
[01:58] <ScottK> And wgrant even took care of uploading a new upstream of python-kde3 so that's fixed too.
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> Awesome.
[02:02] <JontheEchidna> Oh, new k3b
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> That means the last kde3libs rdepend on the LiveCD is gone!
[02:09] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Nope.
[02:09] <ScottK> Note the revision on the upload.
[02:10] <JontheEchidna> oh
[02:10] <ScottK> Also there's OOo to deal with.
[02:10] <JontheEchidna> *sigh*
[02:10] <ScottK> It was an inadvertent upload, which Tonio_ said he intends to revert.
[02:13] <ScottK> Although if we convinced ourselves k3b was ready, we could just drop the OOo integration stuff, I'm pretty sure.
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> OOo without integration is bare java, completely ugly
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> I doubt we'd be able to get away with that
[02:24] <ScottK> Dunno.
[02:44] <rgreening> k3b is solid here.
[02:45] <rgreening> I've burned many DVD's in last couple of days
[02:45] <rgreening> 0 issues
[02:53] <ScottK> So maybe Tonio_ shouldn't revert it then.
[07:40] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: already had kde4bindings test-building ... looks fine so uploading in a few minutes
[08:59] <davmor2> Guys today is a general Smoke testing day on the testing channel.  Everyone is welcome and we are after reports on Kubuntu as well as everything else.  If you can spare the time to give a quick blast through your beloved desktop that would be great :)
[09:00] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: kdebase in jaunty had got a few fixes, amongst them one for konsole, if you would look at backporting that one ... but dunno if we want to re-enable the simple about-page or not after the fixes to it
[10:09] <Tonio_> hi there
[10:10] <a|wen> hey Tonio_
[10:16] <Tonio_> a|wen: hi
[10:36] <urkud> Hi! What are debian/*.installgen files?
[10:37] <urkud> Am I right that *.install files are generated from *.installgen? Which tool do the job?
[10:55] <urkud> Sory for repeating question but google gives nothing about debian/*.installgen...
[11:58] <Tonio_> would someone try this command please ?
[11:58] <Tonio_> grep ksmserver /var/log/messages
[11:58] <Tonio_> I've been reported that ksmserver is craching sometimes due to libqt-dbus... I can confirm it happened 4 times for me according to the logs...
[11:59] <Tonio_> google isn't aware of any issue on that point..
[12:01] <serzholino> Tonio_: empty here in interpid, KDE 4.2.0 from backports
[12:01] <Tonio_> serzholino: thanks
[12:01] <Tonio_> serzholino: you may have qt4.4 right ?
[12:01] <serzholino> yes
[12:02] <Tonio_> serzholino: I'm pretty sure the issue is due to qt4.5 w kde 4.2…..
[12:14] <Tonio_> ScottK: I read that k3b was tested successfully with dvds.... that's pretty cool :)
[12:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: I already switched back the archives to kde3, but we can consider upgrading.... I'd like the packaging to be read by another person, since it is pretty complex...
[12:25] <knusperf1osch> ScottK: do you intend to backport 4.2.1 for intrepid?
[12:32] <ScottK> knusperf1osch: If we get good results from the packages in the PPA, yes.
[12:33] <ScottK> Tonio_: OK.  I'd say wait for Riddell to get back from his trip.  I think he should decide.
[12:36] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did you have stuff that needs sponsoring? We need to get it done today before the Alpha 6 freeze kicks in.
[12:36] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I do. Let me see what it is
[12:37] <JontheEchidna> kdeartwork needs it. I built it in a universeless pbuilder
[12:37] <JontheEchidna> kdebase workspace needs sponsoring too
[12:38] <JontheEchidna> kdeadmin
[12:38] <JontheEchidna> I think that's it
[12:47] <urkud> I'm trying to package current KDE svn trunk. Which tool is used to manage *.install files?
[12:47] <ScottK> All in bzr?
[12:47] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Yes
[12:48] <JontheEchidna> urkud: Any text editor
[12:48] <urkud> JontheEchidna: And what are *.installgen files?
[12:48] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ^^
[12:48] <JontheEchidna> Those are used to generate the .install files by debian or something. We don't use 'em much
[12:49] <JontheEchidna> We usually do a make -f debian/rules list-missing to see which files are missing
[12:49] <JontheEchidna> then add them to the proper .install file accordingly
[12:49] <urkud> Thanks for list-missing target.
[12:50] <JontheEchidna> You're welcome.
[13:09] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Are you on amd64?
[13:09] <JontheEchidna> i386
[13:11] <Tonio_> ScottK: I agreee the decision comes to Riddell
[13:11] <ScottK> OK.  We'll wait for him to get back.
[13:14] <ScottK> I got it figured ou.
[13:23] <rgreening> morning all
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> \o
[13:27] <rgreening> omg.. git is slow.
[13:29] <ScottK> lol
[13:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: kdeadmin uploaded.
[13:30] <ScottK> Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> Thx
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> You're welcome. And if you sponsor my other ones you don't have to repeat that line 2 more times :P
[13:30] <rgreening> bwahahahaha
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> Unless you want to, of course :D
[13:31] <ScottK> I'm suprised to find some of these packages still have the Debian vcs stuff in them.  I'm fixing that too.
[13:31] <JontheEchidna> Hmm, I thought apachelogger would have gotten those all taken care of by now
[13:31] <JontheEchidna> or, by the time he left
[13:32] <ScottK> Working on the others now ...
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> But I guess kdeadmin, et al aren't updated very often outside of new upstream releases
[13:34] <rgreening> ScottK: add kdeartwork to the list (assuming it wasn't fixed already)
[13:34] <ScottK> I'm working on that right now.
[13:35] <rgreening> coolios
[13:35] <ScottK> It's test building and I'm getting workspace set up to go next.
[13:35] <rgreening> out of the 10 packages I have, that was the only one still ref'ing debian
[13:36] <rgreening> never noticed during upload, or I would have corrected . :(
[13:43] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/share/kde4/services/ScreenSavers/celtic.desktop': No such file or directory
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> argh
[13:43] <ScottK> Should be easy enough to fix.
[13:43] <ScottK> Let me look
[13:47] <ScottK> Trying again.
[13:54] <ScottK> If someone is looking for something worth doing, bug 337791 might be worth looking into.
[14:19] <ScottK> Does anyone else have Main uploads they think need to happen before Alpha 6?
[14:26] <rgreening> glatzor: ping
[14:34] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: kdeartwork uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[15:01] <cumulus007> How is this possible: KPackageKit can update my system without my root password?
[15:01] <cumulus007> It doesn't ask for it.
[15:03]  * ScottK suspects rgreening knows about that ...
[15:05] <jussi01> hrm, mine seems to ask for it... though it did have a "remember authorisation" tickbox
[15:34] <kishore> rgreening: ping
[15:35] <rgreening> kishore: pong
[15:35] <kishore> rgreening: last time i was here, a|wen suggested that i ask you about why kexi-kde4 package was missing..
[15:36] <kishore> the rest of koffice seems to be there
[15:36] <rgreening> hmm... jaunty or intrepid?
[15:36] <kishore> actually... its missing in both
[15:36] <kishore> im on jaunty now
[15:36] <rgreening> let me review the package.. 1 sec
[15:39] <rgreening> kishore: kexi appears ot be commented out. Prob issue with earlier beta versions. I'll try and build it here and see what happens. If it works, I'll uncomment and re-upload new version.
[15:39] <kishore> rgreening: cool that would be great!
[15:39] <kishore> it has indeed been missing since earlier versions
[15:40] <kishore> if it does successfully build.. what wouold be the lead time before it appears in the repo?
[15:40] <kishore> rgreening: in other words when can i check? :P
[15:41] <rgreening> well, it'll take a while to build here. Then I have to upload. Once uploaded, it'll have to build there as well. Maybe sometime later today (4hrs)
[15:42] <kishore> wow! that's lot lesser than i was expecting! thanks
[15:42] <ScottK> \o/ - workspace finally finished.
[15:42] <rgreening> Its a guesstimate :)
[15:43] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: kdebase-workspace uploaded without change.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[15:43] <ScottK> rgreening: It'll got to binary New too, so longer.
[15:43] <ScottK> got/to
[15:43] <ScottK> go even
[15:45] <rgreening> ScottK: binary new?
[15:45]  * rgreening not familiar
[15:45] <ScottK> If you add a new binary package it goes back to New and needs an archive admin review.
[15:46] <rgreening> so if an existing source adds a new binary?
[15:46] <ScottK> Yes.
[15:46] <rgreening> oh...
[15:46] <ScottK> And that would definitely be a 'feature' too.
[15:47] <rgreening> ScottK: it's replacing kexi (1.6.3) with kexi-kde4
[15:47] <ScottK> It's not.  It's adding the KDE4 kexi.
[15:47] <rgreening> ok, true... conflict
[15:47] <ScottK> rgreening: I'm sure Riddell will say yes if it works OK, but we ought to run it by him.
[15:48] <rgreening> Im sure as well.
[15:48] <rgreening> His last comment was "it;'s beta, it couldn't get much worse"
[15:48] <ScottK> Yeah, but I think he needs to be asked.
[15:50] <rgreening> Riddell: If you get online. Need to update koffice2 (kexi, kformula and pvivio were missing in package - commented out). Will need your ok to upload after I test/verify it works
[15:50] <rgreening> s/pvivio/kvivio
[15:51] <kishore> i recollect reading that in koffice dev blogs that kexi is among the most  complete of koffice2 apps
[15:54] <kishore> rgreening: or was it the other way? koffice2 beta 7 announcement does not seem to include kexi... weird
[15:55] <rgreening> kishore: pbuilding local. lets see what bombs.
[15:57] <rgreening> scottk: I'm reasonably sure no build/package issues with adding these. It built fine for me last time I up0loaded beta7. It was just the control files were commented out (from a while back).
[15:57] <ScottK> OK.  Well I think it's fine once Riddell gives an ack.
[15:57] <rgreening> cool. I'll get it working locally then.
[16:02] <davmor2> ScottK: Whose the best person to talk to about the panel?
[16:02] <ScottK> davmor2: Riddell, but he's away, so I'd say talk to the channel and see who jumps in (not sure).
[16:03] <rgreening> davmor2: whats the issue
[16:03] <davmor2> panel is still 2 inches shorter than the desktop Riddell was hoping to get it fixed for alpha 6
[16:04] <rgreening> oh, that's likely a kubuntu-default-settings thing we can do.
[16:04] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: ^ are you familiar?
[16:04] <davmor2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/309419
[16:05] <davmor2> it happens on all compiz viable drivers
[16:05] <davmor2> so intel out of the box, nvidia once enabled etc
[16:05] <rgreening> davmor2: yeah, I had the same
[16:09] <davmor2> rgreening: if memory servers Riddell gave me a bunch of commands one of which was to remove one of the .files from home and then log back in and that fixed it but I can't remember what or when :(
[16:09] <davmor2> serves even
[16:09] <rgreening> davmor2: would it be in your irclogs?
[16:09] <davmor2> checking
[16:25] <davmor2> rgreening: (14:51:52) Riddell: logout, rm ~/.kde/share/config/plasma*; rm /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/share/config/plasma-appletsrc  (14:51:56) Riddell: login
[16:29] <rgreening> davmor2: likely the kde4-profile
[16:29] <rgreening> but I could be wrong
[16:30] <ScottK> rgreening: If you can figure something out, I can upload it tonight before the freeze.
[16:30] <rgreening> ScottK: I'll see what I can do
[16:30] <ScottK> OK.
[16:30] <davmor2> rgreening: Well all I know is that it fixed it when I did that :)
[16:31] <ghostcube> hmm a question folks is it normal that with 2 seperate xscreens there is nothiung on the second screen except an x for mouse and rest is black ?
[16:31] <ghostcube> nvidia
[16:32] <ghostcube> DISPLAY=":0.1" kwin  isnt working
[16:43] <Tonio_> rgreening: hey :) nice to see k3b has been working for you
[16:44] <Tonio_> rgreening: just a question since I added and removed patches.... when did you burn and did you note the version you used ?
[16:44] <Tonio_> rgreening: for instance does it work with my current ppa version ?
[16:44] <rgreening> Tonio_: just updated. Will test as soon as I can.,
[16:45] <Tonio_> rgreening: thanks :)
[16:45] <Tonio_> would be nice to get it in after the freeze if that works...
[16:53] <kishore> rgreening: I just checked on #koffice and it seems that kexi is not going to be released with koffice 2.0
[16:54] <kishore> and appears "doubtful" for 2.1 but it should atleast compile
[17:41] <seele> anyone use krecipes? it keeps crashing and i´m not sure how to figure out why so i can write a bug
[17:44] <ScottK> rgreening: If koffice is going to release 2.0 without it, I'm not sure we want to add it ....
[18:16] <rgreening> ScottK: I was thinking the same thing
[18:16] <rgreening> I'll prob just upload to my PPA.
[18:25] <JontheEchidna> OK, knetworkconf is completely and absolutely broken
[18:26] <ScottK> \o/
[18:26] <ScottK> Plz be fixoring.
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> I think we should just not package it and instead move the NetworkManager SystemSettings module to the Network Settings module
[18:27] <JontheEchidna> I don't know why upstream even releases it
[18:27] <JontheEchidna> It hasn't been touched with any signification coding changes for two years
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> (They do have bug reports, but untouched)
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> sebas: what would you think about making the Network Management KCM a child of the Network Settings KCM?
[18:33] <JontheEchidna> It's hidden away in the advanced tab of systemsettings as it is
[18:35] <vorian> JontheEchidna: did you have a chance to get that quicklunch patch sponsored?
[18:35] <JontheEchidna> vorian: yus, I am being rosettaspammed about it right now
[18:35] <vorian> haha
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> About 150 emails this time
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> I fear I'm seeing repeats
[18:36] <vorian> heh, that's not too bad then
[18:36]  * vorian just arrived in Music City, USA
[18:36] <ScottK> Then I'm glad I didn't find something to change in that one before I uploaded it then.
[18:38] <vorian> I wonder when/if that bug will be fixored
[18:44] <ScottK> vorian: Set up and automatic forward based on subject line regex to certain LP developers?
[18:45] <ScottK> That might speed it up.
[18:45] <vorian> haha
[18:45] <vorian> well, I WILL do that on the 4.2.2 release
[18:45] <vorian> I have been assured the problem will be taken care of by then
[18:46] <vorian> and all the loverly karma will go away too
[18:51] <vorian> JontheEchidna: when was it uploaded?  I see no change
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> vorian: 45 mins ago? It's probably not built
[18:51] <vorian> ahhh
[18:51] <vorian> ok
[19:41] <_StefanS_> evening
[21:50]  * JontheEchidna blackholes anything from rosetta@launchpad.net
[22:27] <Lure> can two packages Provides the same name and be installed at the same time?
[22:28] <ScottK> If they don't conflict, yes.
[22:37] <nixternal> that's what alternatives are all about :)
[22:37] <nhandler> ScottK: ping
[22:38] <ScottK> nhandler: Pong
[22:39] <nhandler> scottk: I started looking at kpogre, and it appears that someone has had a new version sitting on mentors.debian.net for a while. Is there a reason that we aren't using that version?
[22:39] <ScottK> nhandler: Dunno.  They were discussing having it removed on #debian-qt-kde if no one agreed to be interested in the package.
[22:39] <ScottK> nhandler: I'd ask anna.
[22:40] <nhandler> scottK: Is she on freenode? Or only oftc?
[22:41] <ScottK> nhandler: She's anna` on freenode if she's around, but mostly on oftc.
[22:42] <Tonio_> ScottK: ever seen a launchpad build failing since "ifconfig" was missing ?
[22:42] <ScottK> No.
[22:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: I couldn't imagin there was such a difference between launchpad buildd and the ppa...
[22:43] <ScottK> There shouldn't be.  What package?
[22:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: it looks like you have to manually add net-tools as a build-dep :)
[22:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: knemo
[22:43] <nhandler> scottk: It doesn't look like she is online (either freenode or oftc). Do you have an email address? Or should I just comment on the debian bug?
[22:43] <Tonio_> ScottK: built like a charm on my ppa, failed for the archives, I just reuploaded adding net-tools to the build-deps.... we'll see
[22:44] <Tonio_> I seem to remember I already saw that in the past, when packaging kwlan
[22:44] <Tonio_> or was is wireless-assistant.... I don't remember
[22:44] <ScottK> Tonio_: net-tools is build-essential, so you shouldn't need to b-d on it.
[22:45] <Tonio_> ScottK: I know but look at the buildlog :)
[22:45] <ScottK> I believe you, but I think it's a LP bug then.
[22:45] <Tonio_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/knemo/0.5.0-0ubuntu1/+build/899047/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.knemo_0.5.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[22:45] <ScottK> nhandler: I told you wrong.  ana, not anna.
[22:46] <Tonio_> ScottK: probably yes....
[22:46] <nhandler> scottk: I just noticed that after checking the bug report ;)
[22:53] <ScottK> Did you all see http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/03/09/patch-for-lancelot-and-qt4/
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: We've had that for a few weeks ;-)
[22:58] <ScottK> Ah, excellent.
[23:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Did anyone get anywhere with k-d-s and the task bar width problem while I was out?
[23:02] <JontheEchidna> I don't think so. I also have no clue why it's not working
[23:02] <JontheEchidna> Works for me (tm)
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> The way it's currently (since 8.10) set up is that the default is a 9000 pixel wide panel. In all situations I tested Plasma successfully downsized to the screen resolution on login
[23:05] <Tonio_> guys, I'm just facing a really bad bug...
[23:05] <Tonio_> could you all pastebin me the result of "grep ksmserver /var/log/messages" for you please ?
[23:05] <ScottK> OK.  Just checking if we needed anymore uploading before the Alpha 6 freeze.
[23:05] <Tonio_> I'd like to get a confirmation
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: I get nothing
[23:07] <nhandler> Tonio_: I get nothing too (although I am also on Ubuntu)
[23:07] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: Mar  5 03:28:27 tonio-laptop kernel: [13988.858856] ksmserver[5932]: segfault at 4 ip b6834f46 sp b35cd7b0 error 4 in libQtDBus.so.4.5.0[b67f3000+73000]
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> ow
[23:07] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I got 2 people confirming that happened for them on an up to date jaunty
[23:07] <Tonio_> it happened to me 4 times actually
[23:08] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: could be due to soem drivers at some points, that's why I'd like everyone to check...
[23:08] <JontheEchidna> I got nvidia-glx-96 here
[23:08] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: that's already 3 people including me that confirmed...
[23:08] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: radeon for me
[23:08] <JontheEchidna> Maybe bug 332811?
[23:08] <Tonio_> one of the guys had intel
[23:08] <Tonio_> could be the same indeed... hard to say without the log
[23:08] <ScottK> I got nothing with 4.2.0 on Intrepid (and intel).
[23:09] <Lure> ScottK: ok, I think that option 2. is then more appropriate fix for 340210
[23:09] <Tonio_> ScottK: thanks
[23:09] <Lure> Tonio_: ^^^ what do you think?
[23:10] <Tonio_> Lure: hu ? ;)
[23:10] <Lure> Tonio_: I think knetworkmanager and plama-widget-network-manager should be change to both Provides network-manager-kde
[23:10] <Lure> bug 340210
[23:11] <Lure> but we should probably align with debian
[23:12] <Tonio_> Lure: Riddell's intention was to have them both available... so I don't know...
[23:12] <Tonio_> Lure: I'd be in favor of simply dropping knetworkmanager
[23:13] <ScottK> Well network-manager recommending plasma-widget-network-manager would be unfriendly to Gnome people anyway.
[23:13] <ScottK> Tonio_: It doesn't hurt to have it if it's off the CD.
[23:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: with dist-upgrade, people will get it on jaunty, and still use it, missing the new one
[23:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: droping and let the plasmoid providing it would force the transition, which is probably better
[23:15] <Lure> Tonio_: re ksmserver: I have two segfaults
[23:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: I have seen to many people at work using adept with jaunty, simply cause they don't know it has changed...
[23:16] <ScottK> Tonio_: I suspect it'll be better for some, worse for others.
[23:16] <Tonio_> Lure: hum, with the same libqtdbus thing ?
[23:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: hard to say indeed...
[23:16] <Lure> Tonio_: yes - on thinkpad x200s (intel)
[23:17] <Tonio_> Lure: we have to take care if that doesn't get any better
[23:17] <Lure> ScottK: why unfriendy to gnome?  it would be "network-manager-gnome
[23:17] <Lure> | network-manager-kde
[23:17] <Tonio_> Lure: I really suspect soemthing with xorg... it never happened to me again after the recent radeon driver update
[23:18] <ScottK> Lure: OK.  Missed that part.
[23:18] <Lure> | plasma-widget-network-manager
[23:18]  * Lure is getting used to thinkpad keyboard ;-)
[23:18] <Tonio_> Lure: I'd say nevermind, the plasmoid is a dep of kubuntu-desktop
[23:18] <Tonio_> Lure: people will not have to install it, or know the name :)
[23:19] <Lure> Tonio_: I mind - I get gnome depends with clean install!
[23:19] <Tonio_> ScottK: the thing is that I see a lot of duplication for people upgrading...
[23:19] <ScottK> And in theory at least knetwortmanager will quailfy for autoremove
[23:19] <ScottK> qualify...
[23:19] <Tonio_> ScottK: kpackagekit<>adept, powerdevil<>guidance-power-manager, knetworkmanager<>plasma-widget-network-manager
[23:20] <Tonio_> ScottK: that'll mess their computer, and also they might miss the new components (that are a *lot* better)
[23:20] <Tonio_> I've seen a lot of people complaining about guidance and didn't knew the powerdevil applet, for example
[23:21] <Tonio_> or using adept and complaining about crashes... or that ip settings in knetworkmanager didn't work at all
[23:22] <Tonio_> maybe the upgrader tool should remove them and we let them in the repo for further manual installation..... dunno
[23:22] <Tonio_> but that's something we have to consider I'd say
[23:22] <ScottK> When I suggested have updatemanager remove guidance-powermanager, Riddell said no.
[23:23] <Tonio_> ScottK: I think you were right, and I'll extend the concept to knetworkmanager and adept
[23:23] <ScottK> Tonio_: OK.  You take it up with him when he gets back.
[23:23] <Tonio_> ScottK: let's say like this : no guidance removal -> no k3b kde4 :)
[23:23] <Tonio_> haha
[23:24]  * Tonio_ is rude on negociations...
[23:24]  * Lure thinks that french know how to blackmail ;-)
[23:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: talking about that as the kde4 version of k3b seems to work now, I'd like to get people to review it
[23:24] <Lure> Tonio_: btw, how is k3b looking?
[23:25] <Tonio_> the packaging is not super simple, so maybe other eyes would be better
[23:25]  * Lure cannot test as no optical drive in new laptop
[23:25] <Tonio_> Lure: rgrenning reported to burn dvds succesfully :)
[23:25] <Tonio_> Lure: reviewing the packaging on my ppa would be nice
[23:27] <Lure> Tonio_: as k-d-s guy, any comment to my suggestions in bug 340220 ?
[23:27] <Lure> Tonio_: will look at k3b package tommorow
[23:27]  * Lure is too braindead today and needs to go to bed ;-)
[23:28] <Tonio_> Lure: yep, first for gtk-qt-engines, that causes ugly results in firefox, which is pretty much of a problem since most of our users do use firefox...
[23:28] <Tonio_> Lure: about the "hover" thing in kickoff, I tend to agree, that changed with 4.2.1, dunno why, but I think we should revert
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> Hover being off has been there since Intrepid
[23:28] <Lure> Tonio_: I think it was changed in 4.2.0 or even before
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> it was part of the spec iirc
[23:29] <Tonio_> desktop effect set to auto is fine.... there is probably a bug for you since most people reported that to work as expected...
[23:29] <Tonio_> Lure: the less clicks, the best, imho
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> but then the setting moved from kickoffrc to plasma-appletsrc and it broke
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> it got fixed in a recent kubuntu-default-settings upload
[23:30] <Tonio_> Lure: pager to 1 line = waste of space imho
[23:30] <Lure> Tonio_: I do not notice firefox issues with fonts - what is the problem?
[23:30] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: agreed on one-line pager
[23:30] <Tonio_> Lure: it fucks up the tabs, you have glinches, and qt buttons are *horrible*
[23:31] <JontheEchidna> We already ship a bunch of stuff taking up horizontal space in the panel, including a battery icon. I don't even have a battery
[23:31] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: I'd love the battery and networkmanager in the systray btw...
[23:32] <Tonio_> JontheEchidna: but that's not possible yet.... maybe we could patch in the future for that
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, probably not going to happen until a later KDE release though
[23:32] <Lure> Tonio_: that would be cool (+autohide)
[23:32] <Tonio_> Lure: yup, we should consider pushing some autohide settings (kwallet manager for example) by default
[23:32] <Tonio_> Lure: I'd say it's a bit late to overtweak kds imho...
[23:33] <Tonio_> Lure: the only change I'd be free to apply would be with kickoff.... the other ones, I'd say rediscuss this for karmik :)
[23:33] <Tonio_> Lure: but that's my opinion only :)
[23:33] <JontheEchidna> Might wanna get Riddell's input on reverting the hover setting
[23:33] <Lure> Tonio_:  I think this need decision on meeting
[23:33] <Tonio_> Lure: agree with you for the digital clock
[23:34] <Lure> Tonio_: yes, year in clock does not make much sense
[23:34] <Tonio_> Lure: and now seele's there, there's no reason I decide usability settings on my own as I used to do in the past :)
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> The digital clock settings were my attempt at cloning what we had in KDE3 :P
[23:34] <Lure> Tonio_: and weekday instead of year brings me quite some horizontal space back
[23:35] <Tonio_> Lure: probably yes....
[23:35] <Lure> Tonio_: that is why I subscribed seele to bug
[23:35] <Tonio_> seele: would you agree on changing those 2 things ? replacing year by day of week in the clock, and activation of the hover change in kickoff ?
[23:36] <Tonio_> Lure: and you didn't subscribe me ? :'(
[23:36]  * Tonio_ gets frustrated :)
[23:36] <Lure> Tonio_: you are autosubscribed ;-)
[23:36] <Tonio_> Lure: hum.... true :)
[23:37] <Tonio_> Lure: on the other hand, discussing default in a meeting is a *very* bad idea, since the most people, the most different opinions :)
[23:37] <Tonio_> Lure: I tried in the past, it generally gives a 50% in favor, 50% against....
[23:38] <Lure> Tonio_: yes, I know
[23:38] <Tonio_> Lure: remember discussions with konversation tabs on the left ? ;)
[23:38] <Lure> but it is fun to watch different arguments ;-)
[23:38] <Tonio_> that's was such a great moment...
[23:39] <Tonio_> Lure: that's why in past, I used to ask Riddell only
[23:39] <Tonio_> Lure: when he approved, I uploaded the changes
[23:39] <Tonio_> Lure: when he didn't, I still uploaded then changes, and wait for his arch comments... :)
[23:39] <Lure> ;-)
[23:40]  * Lure notices more french negotiation skills ;-)
[23:42]  * JontheEchidna refrains from making french retreat/surrender jokes and muches quietly on his freedom fries of tolerance :P
[23:43]  * kuaera steals JontheEchidna's fries; flees
[23:43]  * Lure refrains from making scotland/england jokes while Riddell is not here 
[23:43] <Lure> no use ;-)
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> ~order freedom fries
[23:44]  * kubotu slides freedom fries down the bar to JontheEchidna
[23:44] <kuaera> Foiled!
[23:44] <JontheEchidna> ~order haggis for Lure
[23:44]  * kubotu slides haggis down the bar to Lure
[23:44] <Lure> JontheEchidna: thanks a lot ;-)
[23:44] <seele> Tonio_: i'm responding to it.. give me two minutes
[23:44] <Tonio_> seele: super, thanks :)
[23:44] <seele> Tonio_: no to the hover thing in kickoff though, that was a change i've been recommending for the past two releases
[23:44] <Tonio_> seele: even 3 if needed...  but not more !
[23:45] <seele> it doesnt make any sense that half the time you navigate with hover and the other half click
[23:45] <seele> it's very disorienting
[23:45] <Tonio_> seele: but that adding a lot more clicks imho...
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> Tonio_: that's why they made Lancelot :P
[23:45] <Tonio_> seele: and the old standard kmenu was like this
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> no-click by default, other than the click for opening it
[23:46] <Tonio_> seele: hover to navigate in and then click to start your thing... no ?
[23:46] <Tonio_> seele: well you are the expert, I just tend to have different opinion :)
[23:46] <seele> no, because you need to click to navigate to your thing
[23:46] <seele> so half the time you hover to navigate then the other half you click
[23:47] <Tonio_> allright (I'll change it for me only then ^^)
[23:47] <seele> Tonio_: that's why the option exists :)