[03:30] <Pirate_king> anyone using a Quick cam for notebooks in ubuntu 8.10 with skype?
[03:30] <Pirate_king> works in ekiga
[07:52] <pitti> Good morning
[08:17] <crevette> hello
[08:17] <crevette> good morning
[08:23] <didrocks> hey seb128 & crevette
[08:23] <crevette> hey didrocks
[08:23] <seb128> lut didrocks crevette
[08:23] <didrocks> crevette: did you see my comments this week-end?
[08:23] <crevette> didrocks, I didn't had time to looke to the package
[08:24] <crevette> I was tired due to some birthday party
[08:24] <didrocks> seb128: if there is some update/things to do, do not hesitate (even if it will be updated after the soft freeze)
[08:24] <seb128> hey mvo
[08:25] <mvo> hey seb128
[08:25] <seb128> didrocks: there is a gnome-netstatus update you can look at if you want
[08:25] <seb128> mvo: your compiz updates were not installable, did you forgot to upload package renames?
[08:25] <crevette> salut seb128
[08:26] <didrocks> seb128: oki
[08:26] <didrocks> hi mvo
[08:26] <mvo> seb128: hrm, what packages were not installalble?
[08:26] <seb128> mvo: slangasek fixed it
[08:26] <seb128> mvo: "  * Depend still on compiz-fusion-plugins-{main,extra} instead of on
[08:26] <seb128>     compiz-plugins-{main,extra}, as the package names have not changed in
[08:26] <seb128>     0.8.2."
[08:27] <mvo> ohhh
[08:27] <mvo> I had planned to rename them (upstream renamed them) but didn't in the end to avoid NEW and all this
[08:27] <mvo> hey didrocks
[08:28] <mvo> seb128: but one most have made it into bzr :(
[08:29] <didrocks> crevette: ok, just tell me when you fixed those :)
[08:29] <crevette> didrocks, yeah, I'll update bugs when it's ready, I'll try to do nautilus-sendto-universe quickly
[08:33] <seb128> pitti: I've untagged yet another firefox bug and removed the retracer lock
[08:33] <pitti> seb128: thanks; I'm about to fix it once and for call in crash-digger
[08:33] <pitti> just need another 5 mins to finish the morning email
[08:33] <seb128> pitti: thank you
[08:34] <seb128> brb restarting session
[08:42] <mvo> 456 mails from rosetta, not bad for the night
[08:45] <huats> morning everyone
[08:46] <didrocks> morning huats
[08:47] <seb128> mvo: I got rosetta and bug watch spam this night
[08:47] <seb128> lut huats
[08:48] <huats> hello seb128
[08:54] <didrocks> mvo, seb128: so do I
[09:00] <didrocks> seb128: gnome-netstatus update is finished. I will test it this evening and try to push it to alioth too as it is a stable release
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks: we are on sync with debian?
[09:02] <didrocks> seb128: not for this package. There is only a few remaining patches that seems to not be ubuntu specific and I have to seek if they have been reported to debian and refused, or just not been reported
[09:05] <asac> too bad. i think the update yesterday killed my window decorations :/
[09:06]  * asac checks whether there are more updates ;)
[09:07] <asac> k ... so compiz is not running and there are new compiz bits coming
[09:09] <pitti> didrocks: great, you'll look into the pidgin backport? I added stable tasks to that bug which originally asked for 2.5.5 update
[09:09] <crevette> hey pitti
[09:10] <crevette> pitti, if you want to test gnome-bluetooth 2.27.1 which can replace bluez-gnome (and hence fix the pin code problem) you can try my package in my ppa (https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive/ppa)
[09:11] <crevette> seb128 suggested to push in universe to have time to test it, I think this is a very good idea
[09:12] <pitti> crevette: oh, the entire bluez-gnome is obsolete then?
[09:12] <pitti> crevette: is g-b an entirely different project, or was b-g renamed?
[09:12] <crevette> pitti, not sure..., bastien didn't expected new release from bluez-gnome
[09:13] <pitti> I don't think it's appropriate to switch at this time
[09:13] <crevette> gnome-bluetooth has a different purpose before, but it was superseded by gnome-user-share
[09:13] <pitti> I just want this silly bug fixed, but that can't be too hard with the current version either
[09:13] <crevette> so bastien decided to fork bluez-gnome and use the name gnome-bluetooth
[09:14] <crevette> so the code base is almost the same than bluez-gnome with a lot of enhancements, but still rough
[09:17] <asac> mvo: compiz is really dead for me ;)
[09:17] <mvo> asac: oh?
[09:18] <mvo> asac: I was just about to ask you what to do with n-m on ugrdae. should I add code that detects if n-m is being used and refuse upgrades over ssh (because at some point n-m will stop the interface?)
[09:18] <asac> mvo: yes. no window decorations on my intel chipset
[09:18] <mvo> asac: could you please check if "compiz" (the meta-package) is installed
[09:19] <asac> mvo: please try to disable hal getting torn down
[09:19] <asac> also ensure that udev is not restarted/shutdown
[09:19] <asac> mvo: no
[09:19] <mvo> asac: and then put a ps afx into a pastebin
[09:19] <asac> its pn
[09:19] <mvo> asac: could you please install it ?
[09:19] <mvo> and re-login into the session
[09:20] <asac> mvo: well i have metactiy running. should i get back to no-decoration state?
[09:20] <asac> mvo: i looked and compiz wasnt running iirc
[09:20] <asac> mvo: was compiz removed by accident?
[09:20] <mvo> pitti: do you have any opinion on the "hal/udev" should not be restarted so that n-m keeps its interfaces
[09:21] <pitti> oh? I restart hal all the time
[09:21] <mvo> asac: yes, there was a transient issue with the update
[09:21] <asac> mvo: i dont even say it shouldnt be restarted. hal should not be stopped like in the beginning of the upgrade process
[09:21] <asac> and then being down for 20 minutes
[09:21] <pitti> ah
[09:21] <pitti> right
[09:21] <asac> at least i would like to try that
[09:21] <pitti> it should be restarted in the postinst only
[09:21] <mvo> yeah
[09:22] <asac> mvo: also check what udev does ;)
[09:22] <pitti> it would wreak havoc if d-bus changed underneath us, but it hasn't changed since 1.0
[09:22] <pitti> so I think it's okay
[09:22] <pitti> if you need it, please file a bug against hal and assign it to me
[09:23] <pitti> (or commit it into the hal bzr, of course :) )
[09:23] <mvo> I will do a local version and try it there, I still ahve a test-image
[09:23] <pitti> ah, convenient: dh_installinit -R
[09:23] <pitti> so this should just be a DEB_DH_INSTALLINIT_ARGS=-R in debian/rules
[09:25] <asac> mvo: ok. i so i am now installing compiz meta package and re-login?
[09:25] <mvo> asac: please do
[09:26] <mvo> pitti: sweet
[09:28] <asac> so do we restart dbus during upgrade?
[09:28] <asac> mvo: any clue why hal disappears/reappears multiple times in the syslog?
[09:29] <asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22876290/nm-upgrade-syslog
[09:30]  * asac relogin
[09:32] <asac> mvo: so i dont have desktop effects enabled. if i enable it everything gets so slow that i cannot even click the "keep previous settings" thing
[09:32] <asac> have to wait 45 seconds
[09:33] <asac> i will reboot now. who knows whats going on in the driver
[09:38] <asac> mvo: ok. so nothing helps. compiz dead on my X61 ;)
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: bug 337110 :-)
[09:39] <mvo> asac: could you please put your .xsession-errors log into some pastebin? or the startup stuff it outputs (if you run it from a terminal)
[09:39] <seb128> pitti: \o/
[09:39] <didrocks> pitti: I will have a look at it within the day, yes
[09:39] <pitti> didrocks: you rock
[09:39] <pitti> it's pretty urgent, I think
[09:39] <asac> mvo: ok i will try to run it from terminal
[09:39] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for the task :-)
[09:39] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: the icq issue?
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: yes
[09:39] <pitti> didrocks: I wish I could help you, but I have so many tasks to do ATM that I'd need to fork three times..
[09:40] <mvo> pitti: oh, babies ;) ?
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: I also committed a change to drop CoreDump et al from invalid bugs
[09:40] <didrocks> pitti: no problem. I will give a first status about it this evening :)
[09:40] <pitti> mvo: eventually :) but training lasts quite a bit
[09:40] <asac> mvo: http://pastebin.com/f12055dbb
[09:40] <seb128> pitti: waouh ;-)
[09:41] <mvo> heh :)
[09:41] <didrocks> mvo: I told that to a friend yesterday "oh, you had babies, you forked? " ;)
[09:41] <asac> so .xsession-erros is completely cluttered by Gsm things
[09:41] <asac> how can i disable that=
[09:41] <asac> x-session-manager[4454]: DEBUG(+): GsmManager: disconnect client
[09:42] <mvo> didrocks: is he a geek, did he get the joke?
[09:42] <mvo> asac: hm, that looks ok, but its still dog-slow?
[09:42] <asac> mvo: didnt work at all
[09:43] <didrocks> mvo: yes, he is a geek, otherwise, I would not have told him that. Not *so* crazy :)
[09:43] <mvo> :)
[09:43] <asac> mvo: now i am without decorations
[09:43] <asac> could be that i hit ctrl-c
[09:43] <asac> let me run again
[09:44] <mvo> asac: could you run gconftool --unset /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins
[09:44] <mvo> please ?
[09:44] <asac> mvo so yes. its gdog slow
[09:44] <asac> switching gnome terminal tab takes 20 seconds
[09:44] <seb128> didrocks: let me know if you need testing or sponsoring, I use ICQ and have intrepid and hardy boxes
[09:44] <asac> typing this line takes like 10 seconds
[09:44] <mvo> asac: that is strange, I want your Xorg.0.log
[09:45] <asac> let me kill compiz first
[09:45] <mvo> asac: what is super strange is that hardly anything in the graphic code changed due to the update
[09:45] <asac> mvo: indeed.
[09:45] <didrocks> seb128: yes, I will appreciate: I guess last time I connected to ICQ, it was something like 2001 :)
[09:46] <didrocks> so, what can be my ICQ number? :p
[09:46]  * mvo has his first cup of japanese tea after days of stomach suffering - what a delight
[09:46] <asac> mvo: http://pastebin.com/f5d8a3cd4
[09:46] <didrocks> mvo: be careful with your stomach in this case, tea can be more harmful than coffee
[09:47] <pitti> seb128: new apport uploaded (with fixed apport-retrace); next time it fails, please ignore; I'll update the chroots when it built/published, and restart
[09:47] <mvo> didrocks: yeah, I'm just having one cup (to be on the safe side)
[09:47] <mvo> but its *so* good :)
[09:47]  * mvo is happy
[09:47]  * asac not happy ;)
[09:48] <seb128> pitti: ok
[09:48] <mvo> asac: #
[09:48] <mvo> [    0.619738] (**) intel(0): Using UXA for acceleration <- was that working before
[09:48] <asac> mvo: i used this since berlin. yes.
[09:48] <mvo> ok
[09:48] <asac> mvo: its the new default for intel i think
[09:48] <seb128> pitti: if you log into the chroots please add a deb-src source there so source retracing works again
[09:48] <asac> mvo: i can check if thats the reason. but EXA was severly broken lsat time
[09:48] <mvo> #
[09:48] <mvo> [    2.455715] (II) intel(0): direct rendering: DRI2 Enabled <- and that was ok too?
[09:48] <asac> so i assumed its just not supported for intel anymore
[09:49] <pitti> seb128: ah, will do
[09:49] <asac> mvo: i never explcitly did anything with DRI
[09:49] <mvo> asac: its fine, I'm just poking
[09:49] <asac> mvo: so no idea.
[09:49] <asac> mvo: how can i disable it ?
[09:50] <mvo> I don't know, I need to check the driver
[09:50] <asac> ok i will disable the expclitit UXA now and re-login
[09:51] <asac> mvo: ok UXA it is indeed
[09:51] <asac> bryce_: ^^
[09:52] <asac> bryce_: UXA breaks compiz since yesterday
[09:54] <asac> seb128: can i bribe you to NEW pywebkitgtk?
[09:54] <seb128> asac: yes, let me have a look
[09:54] <asac> seb128: or reject
[09:55] <seb128> asac: why reject?
[09:55] <asac> seb128: its broken since doko didnt care
[09:55] <seb128> it's not binary NEW?
[09:55] <asac> seb128: its binary NEW
[09:55] <asac> seb128: dont know. its a new upstream version that huats prepared
[09:55] <asac> if you didnt hand out FFe
[09:55] <asac> i hope you can just new it ;)
[09:56] <seb128> yeah, I grant it and will new it
[09:56] <asac> seb128: thats so precious. maybe after all these weeks gwibber will finally work then ;)
[09:56] <huats> asac: it is accepted already I think
[09:56] <seb128> what is all the buzz about this thing ;-)
[09:56] <huats> (since this night)
[09:56] <asac> huats: since when?
[09:56] <asac> huats: hmm.
[09:56] <asac> let me check
[09:57] <huats> at least it is not in new anymore from my point of view
[09:57] <asac> seb128: its the main app for using twitter with gtk
[09:57] <asac> seb128: yes. scratch that
[09:57] <seb128> what is all the buzz about twitter
[09:57] <asac> seb128: it was still in new yestrerday night
[09:57] <seb128> ok, good ;-)
[09:57] <huats> asac: it was yesterday indeed
[09:57] <seb128> slangasek probably cleaned
[09:57] <asac> seb128: twitter (identi.ca) is good for bonding
[09:57] <asac> seb128: and if you dont like writing prosa blogs ;)
[09:58] <asac> but still want to get news out
[09:58] <seb128> I'm so not into all those web2 social website things
[09:58] <asac> seb128: get an identi.ca account ;)
[09:58] <seb128> but if people enjoy writting their life on the web and sharing all their privates datas there good for them ;-)
[09:58] <asac> seb128: start doing it. i wondered about it before i started doing it too
[09:59] <asac> and thought it was senseless ;)
[10:00] <seb128> and they got you now? ;-)
[10:00] <asac> seb128: yeah ;) ... since three month already.
[10:00] <asac> seb128: not sure if i will continue to do that forever
[10:00] <asac> at least i managed to find some firefox security testers through that channel ;)
[10:01] <asac> seb128: good thing is you can create a search for keywords (like ubuntu, gnome, firefox)= and then you see if someone has to say something about it ;)
[10:01] <asac> so you get news you would miss otherwise
[10:02] <asac> also the new notifications are good for that ;) (lots of notifications that shouldnt get in your way)
[10:02] <seb128> I will give it a try and test gwibber too
[10:02] <cassidy> seb128: hi! When you have some time, could you take a look on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-farsight/+bug/337195 please? We need it to upload latest Empathy to Jaunty
[10:02] <asac> seb128: :-P
[10:03] <seb128> cassidy: do you need a merge or a sync?
[10:03] <asac> seb128: let me and jorge know when you have an account so you can be properly introduced ... that will give you a bunch of subscribers/followers right away ;)
[10:03] <asac> ok back to nss
[10:03] <cassidy> seb128: a sync I think.
[10:03] <seb128> asac: ok ;-)
[10:04] <asac> bryce_: let me know if you need anything for the UXA-compiz bustage
[10:04] <cassidy> seb128: if the pkg has no ubuntu change, that's a sync, right?
[10:04] <seb128> cassidy: right, the bug seems to suggest that but the title doesn't
[10:04] <cassidy> seb128: indeed. Let me ask confirmation to bigon
[10:05] <seb128> cassidy: synced
[10:05] <cassidy> thanks!
[10:05] <seb128> you're welcome
[10:05] <cassidy> great, hopefully we should have an Empathy with working/reliable audio/video in Jaunty :)
[10:06] <seb128> cassidy: excellent ;-)
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: do you have your script somewhere which debdiffs a built .deb against dpkg -L?
[10:15] <seb128> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/diff-symbols.py
[10:15] <seb128> pitti: just run diff-symbols.py in the src dir after the build
[10:16] <seb128> pitti: dholbach had an another variant which takes 2 debs and compare those
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: hm, that's for shlib symbols
[10:16] <seb128> oh
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: I mean .deb contents
[10:16] <pitti> like debdiff old.deb new.deb
[10:16] <seb128> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/debnbfiles
[10:16] <pitti> but old.deb being dpkg -L
[10:16] <asac> mvo: "asac:Modify Update Manager so that it does not automatically download new indexes when connected to a 3G network:started "
[10:16] <asac> mvo: whats the status on this? is that postponed?
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: that very; merci!
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: run "debnbfiles" in the directory which has the debs
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: you're welcome
[10:26] <seb128> asac: any opinion on bug #332253?
[10:26] <mvo> asac: I hope to still get to it, but a lot of stuff kept me busy
[10:28] <mvo> hey MacSlow
[10:28] <MacSlow> mvo, hey there
[10:28] <MacSlow> seb128, pitti yo
[10:29]  * MacSlow is so happy to have working network on his laptop again
[10:29] <seb128> hello MacSlow
[10:30] <cassidy> seb128: we'll need gabble .22 too for proper audio/video support. See https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/337361
[10:30] <mvo> asac: hrm, I blew away my image with the nm settings, what was the magic to tell it to do a dhcp connection again? I think you had it on your server in tmp somewhere
[10:31] <seb128> cassidy: I trust you guys to follow on issues due to updates, synced
[10:31] <asac> seb128: gave input on how to do that
[10:31] <seb128> asac: thanks
[10:32] <cassidy> seb128: thanks. I want it working and think for now we still have time to sync version
[10:32] <cassidy> seb128: FYI, I created a small script generating http://people.collabora.co.uk/~cassidy/tp-versions.html
[10:32] <seb128> cassidy: right before beta is still fine
[10:33] <seb128> cassidy: do you need some other syncs on this list?
[10:33] <asac> mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/mvodhcp
[10:33] <asac> mvo: put that in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connec*/
[10:33] <cassidy> seb128: Salut would be good if we care about file transfer https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-salut/+bug/333070
[10:34] <seb128> cassidy: synced
[10:35] <cassidy> seb128: great, thanks
[10:35] <cassidy> seb128: what's the deadline until which we can push new versions btw?
[10:35] <mvo> asac: excellent, thanks a lot
[10:35] <seb128> cassidy: syncing -glib too
[10:36] <seb128> cassidy: one month ago? ;-)
[10:36] <mvo> asac: I'm building new images now, lets see how it goes
[10:36] <seb128> cassidy: beta is in 2 weeks, so you still have until end of next week for reasonable changes I would say
[10:36] <cassidy> seb128: right but in practice :)  I guess the TP stack is a bit different as it's basically use only by Empathy atm
[10:37] <cassidy> ok
[10:37] <seb128> cassidy: right, that'w why I'm doing syncs now without asking too much
[10:37] <cassidy> and we did lot of audio/video stabilizing work these last weeks so it would a shame to miss them in Jaunty
[10:37] <seb128> cassidy: but still we are past the freeze and beta is a good time to stop getting new versions
[10:38] <cassidy> ok. I'll try to make some tests with current jaunty packages
[10:38] <seb128> cassidy: do you want telepathy-python 0.15.7 too?
[10:38] <seb128> cassidy: so we can get your list back to mostly green ;-)
[10:39] <cassidy> let me check the release ntoes
[10:39] <cassidy> seb128: yeah, it's a safe and good to have one
[10:43] <seb128> cassidy: ok, syncs done, now get the current empathy version in jaunty ;-)
[10:43] <Zdra> \o/
[10:43] <cassidy> seb128: yep, I'll ask to bigon to merge the pacakge
[10:43] <seb128> thanks
[10:50] <asac> seb128: i think I will upload the simple default for subpixel now so we get it on alpha CD (and see how many complain) ... the other big fix i will put in some PPA the other day.
[10:50] <seb128> asac: oh good idea I wanted to ping you about that yesterday and forgot, thanks
[10:50] <asac> shout if you disagree ;) (e.g. greyscale vs. rgba in gnome-settings-daemon font schema)
[10:50] <asac> ok
[10:52] <seb128> asac: just add a .gconf-defaults to gnome-settings-daemon
[10:54] <asac> seb128: hmm. i wanted to do something like this: # asac:Communicate with Mozilla upstream that they should start responding:done
[10:54] <asac> oops ;)
[10:54] <asac> someone fix paste
[10:54] <asac> seb128: http://pastebin.com/f4f60f27e
[10:55] <seb128> asac: right, that's why I wrote to use a .gconf-defaults, they are made for that
[10:55] <seb128> asac: echo "/desktop/gnome/font_rendering/antialiasing rgba" > debian/gnome-settings-daemon.gconf-default
[10:55] <seb128> asac: echo "/desktop/gnome/font_rendering/antialiasing rgba" > debian/gnome-settings-daemon.gconf-defaults
[10:56] <asac> oh
[10:56] <seb128> asac: dh_gconf does the installation, registration etc
[10:56] <asac> nice
[10:56]  * asac reverts stuff
[10:56] <seb128> asac: ls /usr/share/gconf/defaults for some example
[10:57] <seb128> asac: that allow use to have a "clean upstream" set of default and an another layer with distro changes
[10:57] <seb128> use -> us
[10:57] <asac> yes, I see the benefit. didnt know about that hook
[10:58] <pitti> tedg: *hug* @ bug 339818
[10:58] <seb128> pitti: ;-)
[11:17] <seb128> pitti: retracer crashed, good update ;-)
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: I'm just updating right now
[11:20] <pitti> added deb-src, too
[11:20]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[11:25] <cassidy> seb128: thanks to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=474053  most of the packages FTBFS :(
[11:26] <seb128> cassidy: shouldn't those build-depends on python2.5 then?
[11:27] <lool> asac: Just commented on the moz bug (was travelling yesterday evening; just came at the oxford sprint)
[11:27] <cassidy> seb128: don't know. I'm just an upstream dev. :)  bigon: ^
[11:27] <bigon> cassidy: rohh
[11:28] <bigon> I'm fixing tp-farsight right now
[11:28] <asac> lool: oxford sprint?
[11:28] <asac> lool: no problem ;)
[11:28] <cassidy> bigon: what's the right fix?
[11:28] <bigon> s/site-packages/*-packages
[11:29] <bigon> I think it's the thing to do
[11:31] <seb128> right
[11:31] <bigon> rahh xchat has crashed
[11:32] <lool> asac: The QA Desktop Automation sprint
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: retracers updated and unlocked; shoul be fixed for good now, hopefully
[11:34] <seb128> pitti: you rock!
[11:34] <seb128> lool: automatic bugs fixing? ;-)
[11:35] <lool> seb128: Press reboot!
[11:35] <lool> Hmm no
[11:36] <pitti> mvo: bwah, I lost my window decorations after latest dist-upgrade (new compiz)
[11:36] <pitti> mvo: known problem already? or shall I file a bug?
[11:37] <mvo> pitti: do you have compiz (the meta-package) still installed? there was a transient problem during the upgrade
[11:37] <pitti> . o O { wow, metacity feels fast }
[11:38] <asac> the inability to stack notifications is really annoying if you get many notifications
[11:38] <asac> e.g. add a search in gwibber on "Ubuntu" in twitter and you will constantly see notifications ;)
[11:39] <asac> not sure if it would be better if they get stacked ;)
[11:41] <pitti> mvo: oops, indeed not
[11:42] <pitti>   compiz: Hängt ab: compiz-gnome soll aber nicht installiert werden
[11:42] <pitti>           Hängt ab: libcompizconfig0 (>= 0.8.2) soll aber nicht installiert werden
[11:42] <pitti> mvo: ^
[11:42] <asac> ich haenge auch immer ab ;)
[11:42] <mvo> pitti: oh? is your mirror up-to-date, that should be fine
[11:42] <mvo> haha@asac
[11:42] <pitti> mvo: well, as up to date as archive.u.c. can be..
[11:42]  * pitti hugs assasc
[11:42] <pitti> and asac, too
[11:42]  * asac hugs all ;)
[11:43]  * pitti hugs the German mafia
[11:43]  * mvo scratches his head
[11:44] <mvo> pitti: maybe because of the new libprotobuf3 dependency? but you have universe enabled, right?
[11:45] <didrocks> seb128: pidgin seems to build successfully with no change. I will give some basic tests this evening in intrepid (without ICQ) before giving it to you for ICQ testing.
[11:46] <didrocks> (it builds on both intrepid & hardy)
[11:46] <seb128> didrocks: ok
[11:46] <seb128> didrocks: "with no change"?
[11:47] <didrocks> seb128: yep, just backporting it (I saw that there is already one backported version in hardy for 2.5.2)
[11:47] <seb128> ah ok, good
[11:48] <pitti> what's ls -l /etc/fuse.conf for you guys?
[11:49] <pitti> and are you in the "fuse" group?
[11:49] <pitti> and do you have ~/.gvfs mounted and gvfs-fuse-daemon running?
[11:49] <seb128> didrocks: I'm fine doing build and test this afternoon if you want, I've access to my hardy and intrepid install easily today but not this evening
[11:49] <seb128> didrocks: and I've nothing special to do due to alpha freeze
[11:49] <asac> pitti: yes. i am in fuse group
[11:50] <pitti> hm, anyone who is *not* in the fuse group?
[11:50] <seb128> no
[11:50] <asac> let me check my other system
[11:50] <pitti> hmm
[11:50] <didrocks> seb128: ok, let me push the branch somewhere if it's easier for you, (ok, that's a little bit overkill for only a changelog change ;))
[11:50] <pitti> ah, it seems the permissions of /etc/fuse.conf don't atually matter
[11:50] <seb128> pitti: I can start a test user if you want
[11:50] <asac> pitti: yes
[11:50] <asac> pitti: my other system isnt in fuse
[11:50] <pitti> my unmounted ~/.gvfs was not writable for me, so I couldn't mount
[11:50] <seb128> didrocks: only a changelog log? there is no code change, what fixes the bug?
[11:50] <pitti> that was the reason why gvfs-fuse-daemon didn't start, not the /etc/fuse.conf permissions
[11:51] <asac> but i logged in through ssh (i doubt that this matters)
[11:51] <pitti> asac: ok, thanks
[11:52] <didrocks> seb128: I just rebuilt the last version (1:2.5.5-1ubuntu1) against a hardy and intrepid chroot. I thought we just wanted to backport it, not doing a update (maybe I was not clear enough in my previous sentence)
[11:52] <didrocks> but if you prefer, we can prepare a proper update and cherry picking the fix
[11:52] <seb128> didrocks: we want to backport the code change which fixes that specific issue
[11:52] <seb128> didrocks: not to update hardy to 2.5.5
[11:53] <didrocks> seb128: ok. because that what was done in hardy-backports already (they have 2.5.2 although hardy is at 2.4.1), so, people who uses backport will not have the fix
[11:54] <seb128> didrocks: backport is not my issue, I want to get those fixes to -updates, everybody doesn't use backports
[11:54] <seb128> didrocks: I consider backport as crack usually ;-)
[11:54] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I was mislead by the "backport" term used there lately :)
[11:54] <seb128> pitti: retracer crashed again
[11:54] <didrocks> seb128: I am on it right now :)
[11:54] <seb128> didrocks: thanks!
[11:55] <seb128> pitti: oh, new error
[11:55] <seb128> pitti: seems an apport bug now
[11:58] <asac> mvo: compiz somehow makes firefox 3.1 and trunk behave bad. seems that XQueryTree gives error:
[11:58] <asac> The error was 'BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)'. (Details: serial 1247 error_code 3 request_code 20 minor_code 0)
[11:58] <asac> mvo: takes about 20 seconds to go away ... feels like it doesnt remove a not existing window instantly when proces goes away
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: bwaaah, my stupidity
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: will fix in a bit
[12:02] <seb128> thanks
[12:03] <didrocks> seb128: I will do it this evening. Unfortunately, my company firewall prevents me to go to pidgin.im website (I wanted to follow the commits and to search through the bugtracker)
[12:04] <seb128> didrocks: ok
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: fixed locally in i386 retracer, restarted, committed to trunk
[12:07] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: python-mechanized was fun :)
[12:08] <mvo> asac: how can I reproduce this?
[12:08] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: oh indeed; took me a while to figure it out, too
[12:08] <kenvandine_wk> :)
[12:08] <kenvandine_wk> makes me feel a little better :)
[12:08] <kenvandine_wk> and your fix is of course better than mine
[12:08] <kenvandine_wk> but i am glad i got as far as i did with it :)
[12:09] <asac> mvo: install firefox-3.1 from universe should work
[12:09] <asac> then run firefox-3.1
[12:09] <asac> stop it
[12:09] <asac> then start it again and see the error
[12:10] <seb128> pitti: danke
[12:10] <asac> mvo: 3.1 uses its own profile so you can safely use it in parallel
[12:13] <mvo> asac: thanks, doing that now
[12:13] <mvo> stop it as in click on "file/quit" ?
[12:13] <mvo> or close it via the decoartions?
[12:13] <asac> mvo: doesnt matter i think
[12:13] <asac> mvo: just stop it regularly or even thorugh ctrl-c
[12:14] <asac> mvo: i probably can trap the error and loop till it works, but that would be a bad hack and i dont know how long to loop ;) (1 minute?)
[12:20] <mvo> asac: gehh, ff-3.1 is pretty heavy on io, brings my machine to a crawl here :/
[12:23] <asac> mvo: interesting. consider to stop ffox 3 first ;)?
[12:24] <asac> mvo: also ffox 3.1 copies your whole ffox 3.0 profile on first start. so if thats huge it might be the cp
[12:25] <mvo> asac: yeah, thats it probably
[12:35] <seb128> didrocks: http://download.gnome.org/sources/pangomm/2.24/pangomm-2.24.0.tar.gz is yours
[12:35] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: libgtop is still waiting to be sponsored
[12:36] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: i am anxious for feedback... see if i did things right :)
[12:36] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: right, I've been swamped in other tasks sorry and now main is soft frozen for alpha6
[12:37] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[12:37] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: I will let you know when I've a look later today or tomorrow
[12:37] <kenvandine_wk> np
[12:37] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: can i have another gnome pacakge to bump?
[12:38] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: there is no so many updates right now, new GNOME due next week, you can do http://download.gnome.org/sources/libgda/3.99/libgda-3.99.13.tar.gz (and http://download.gnome.org/sources/libgdamm/3.99/libgdamm-3.99.13.tar.gz) if huats is not doing those already
[12:38] <seb128> didrocks: do you know if huats is doing any ubuntu work atm or started on the libgda update?
[12:38] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: ok, thx
[12:39] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: do you know if the ekiga guys aim 3.2 or something for 2.26?
[12:40] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: i don't know... they are usually off the gnome schedule
[12:40] <seb128> we have 3.0 and there is some new 3.1 tarballs
[12:40] <seb128> dunno if we should do the updates for jaunty
[12:40] <seb128> can you try to figure about that?
[12:40] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: sure
[12:41] <seb128> thanks
[12:41] <mvo> asac: hm, I can not reproduce it, I open/close it and its about as fast to open as before
[12:42] <pitti> didrocks: ah, bug 340151 just got a patch
[12:43] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: ^ I will give a try to the hardy and intrepid backports now, I've access to computer with those versions right now and nothing special to do due to the freeze
[12:43] <asac> mvo: hmm
[12:43] <asac> mvo: which version is it?
[12:44]  * pitti hugs seb128
[12:44]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: you mean backports of the patch?
[12:44] <asac> mvo: try to killall -KILL firefox-3.1 to stop it ... maybe that helps to reproduce it
[12:45] <seb128> pitti: I mean sru updates with this changeset applied
[12:45] <pitti> right
[12:45]  * seb128 knows how to do a sru don't worry ;-)
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: right, I thought you'd prepare *-backports
[12:46] <seb128> no, I don't touch those
[12:46] <seb128> I still consider backport as crack ;-)
[12:47] <asac> mvo: if not i will have to check code. maybe you need multiple profiles or something to hit the XQueryTree code involved here
[12:48] <asac> its arguably low prio. except that i fear this will happen on upstream builds when they release 3.1
[12:48] <mvo> asac: right, not sure if I hit it or not, it takes some seconds to start, but strace shows it doing a lot of $stuff with sqlite
[12:49] <asac> mvo: if it starts you dont hit the bug
[12:49] <asac> mvo: it will just abort
[12:49] <asac> e.g. symptoms are: you cannot start firefox for 20-40 seconds after stopping it
[12:49] <asac> mvo: it will always bail out with the BadWindow error from above
[12:50] <mvo> asac: aha, ok. no that did not happen
[12:50] <asac> mvo: its not even 20-40 seconds. now it doesnt start at all anymore here ;) ... anyway. i will check code
[12:54] <sivang> hi all
[12:55] <sivang> is there anywhere to read about the current state of notification stuff and where help is needed?
[12:56] <asac> sivang: what kind of help?
[12:58] <sivang> asac: well, do you require any? I read sabdfl 's posts about new notification framework and he suggested there work is needed to put things in place. I'm curious to see if I can help and explore where.
[12:59] <seb128> ask on #dx
[12:59] <seb128> there is a wiki page about that
[13:00] <sivang> hi seb128 ! thanks
[13:02] <sivang> seb128: what is 'dx' ?
[13:02] <seb128> desktop experience, the team working on those changes
[13:13] <seb128> didrocks: there?
[13:31] <didrocks> seb128: yep, not for too long, but there :)
[13:32] <seb128> didrocks: I'm doing a testbuild on intrepid with the pidgin change pointed on the bug
[13:32] <seb128> didrocks: I will let you know if that works if you still want to do the sru uploads
[13:34] <didrocks> seb128: he basically backport the new version, what I have done, no?
[13:34] <didrocks> ok, ok, there is a patch
[13:34] <seb128> didrocks: no, there is one comment pointing an upstream changeset
[13:34] <didrocks> seb128: yep I saw it now, keep me in touch, thanks :)
[13:34] <seb128> you're welcome
[13:42] <seb128> hum
[13:42] <seb128> pitti:
[13:42] <seb128> "    raise IOError, "The importance of this bug can't be edited, maybe because this bug is a duplicate of an other one""
[13:43] <seb128> I guess the retracer will not pick that bug again?
[13:43]  * seb128 rm lock
[14:01] <seb128> didrocks: I can confirm that the change works on intrepid and apply cleanly
[14:04] <didrocks> seb128: ok, do you want I do a clean package with it?
[14:05] <seb128> didrocks: do you want to do it or should I just upload my version?
[14:06] <pitti> seb128: huh, weird; if it gets stuck, please poke me
[14:07] <seb128> pitti: no news since, seems to be working ;-)
[14:08] <pitti> phew
[14:08] <pitti> not much luck with apport recently..
[14:10] <seb128> vuntz: there?
[14:12] <mvo> asac: hm, the restart in postinst did not really help :/
[14:12] <mvo> asac: I check a bit further, but its not enough of a workaround
[14:12] <asac> mvo: when is the interface torn down now?
[14:13] <didrocks> seb128: as you wish. I can handle it, but if it's just extra work for you, you can do it now :)
[14:13] <mvo> asac: the ssh from the virtual machine stopped, I'm checking whats going on now
[14:13] <asac> mvo: so the syslog hopefully stopped when this happened
[14:13] <mvo> asac: yes, network interface is gone
[14:13] <asac> mvo: plesae capture it before the iface comes up
[14:14] <asac> mvo: the last log was not really informative about the reason, but maybe just because i failed to spot the time when things go wrong
[14:14] <seb128> didrocks: when will you do it? I don't really care either way but that would be nice to get that uploaded today ;-)
[14:14] <asac> seb128: how can i disable DEBUG for x-session-manager?
[14:14] <asac> all my syslog is flooded with that now ;)
[14:14] <seb128> asac: wait for 2.26 or rebuild it
[14:15] <seb128> 2.26 is due next week
[14:15] <asac> seb128: ok
[14:17] <didrocks> seb128: let's say it's done at 6PM
[14:17] <seb128> didrocks: ok excellent thanks
[14:17] <didrocks> (sorry for the delay, I am in a meeting right now)
[14:17] <mvo> asac: hm, the log looks interessting
[14:17] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/129329/
[14:20] <asac> let me look
[14:23] <seb128> pitti: do you remember the specifics about f-spot import?
[14:23] <asac> mvo: so does the time of the hal reappearing really match the time when hal postinst is run?
[14:23] <seb128> pitti: nautilus is calling it using the .gvfs fuse path right now
[14:23] <asac> mvo: or maybe something else triggers this?
[14:23] <seb128> pitti: do we want to disable that and use the gphoto uri rather?
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: I thought we already did that, because gvfs was so slow (especially with thumbnails)
[14:24] <asac> mvo: i mean: reason 36 just means that the device has been removed. so hal probably doesnt have that device after coming up
[14:24] <mvo> asac: hm
[14:24] <asac> mvo: which probably will make us come back to the bogus lshal output with just 3 devices
[14:24] <asac> as the root cause of the bug
[14:24] <seb128> pitti: well it's currently using fuse in jaunty, I've a fix I just wanted to check with you before uploading
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: the other day, David was reasoning about thumbnail support in gvfs
[14:25] <pitti> if that's there now, why not
[14:25] <pitti> seb128: I can't test it right now, I'm afraid; I gave my camera to my wife, and she's in Italy this week
[14:25] <seb128> pitti: glib understand X-GIO-NoFuse keys in desktop files now
[14:25] <asac> mvo: one theory would be that udev was unpacked before and then something triggers event registration
[14:25] <pitti> seb128: what kind of magic does that do?
[14:25] <seb128> pitti: I've just tested, adding that to the .desktop makes it work
[14:26] <asac> mvo: and new udev needs new kernel or whatever. mysterious
[14:26] <seb128> pitti: it just tells glib to not pass the fuse path when %u or %U is used
[14:26] <pitti> seb128: "work" -> it supplies the gvfs path instead of the fuse path?
[14:26] <pitti> ah, nice
[14:26] <seb128> yes
[14:26] <asac> mvo: for now i would really like to know if its hal that restarts hal at that time or something else ;)
[14:31] <mvo> asac: you are right, its hal triggers that generate the restarts
[14:31] <mvo> asac: at points where udev is unpacked but not configured
[14:48] <pitti> mvo: oh, you are saying that some package installs an .fdi, and the hal package trigger is called at a point where hal isn't configured yet?
[14:49] <pitti> that sounds very strange to me
[14:49] <mvo> pitti: yes
[14:49] <pitti> I thought triggers would run after all pckages are configured
[14:49] <mvo> pitti: eh, I wanted to say at a point where udev is not configured
[14:49] <pitti> hm, hal is configured, but not udev?
[14:49] <mvo> during the last test I did lshal return really strange output in the middle of a upgrade
[14:49] <pitti> but hal depends on udev...
[14:49] <mvo> just 3 device
[14:50] <pitti> mvo: if hal was not running during that time, then I think we can just fix the trigger to not restart hal if it isn't running
[14:50] <pitti> the main part of the trigger is to delete the fdi cche
[14:50] <pitti> cache
[14:51] <mvo> pitti: hal is running at this point (the old version)
[14:51] <mvo> the trouble seems to be that the restart causes it to get incorrect devices and then it thinks the network device disappared
[14:51] <pitti> mvo: hm, I think I know too little about the origial problem to understand it properly
[14:51] <mvo> pitti: we (asac and I) are in the middle of diagnosing it, there is no real understanding yet what the actual problem is :/
[14:52] <pitti> mvo: but ideally, the trigger would be deferred util after all packages got configured
[14:52] <mvo> pitti: but the issue at hand is that network manager kills network interfaces during a upgrade
[14:52] <mvo> and we would like it not to do that (or if it does, for as short as possible)
[14:54] <asac> mvo: sorry was on a call
[14:54] <asac> mvo: so is it udev trigger?
[14:54] <mvo> asac: no, hal trigger (old version)
[14:54] <asac> mvo: oh. so its coming from the intrepid package? that sound bad
[14:55] <asac> mvo: did you see which package runs the hal trigger thing?
[14:56] <rickspencer3> pitti: our team meeting is too late for folks in  capetown
[14:56] <pitti> rickspencer3: no problem
[14:57] <asac> rickspencer3: capetown is in almost the same timezone that we are
[14:57] <mvo> asac: no, but let me try a (crude) workaround
[14:57] <asac> rickspencer3: at least i think they are just a week off
[14:57] <asac> an hour ;)
[14:57] <rickspencer3> asac: yeah, well, they have dinner meetings and such after the sprint
[14:58] <asac> ok ;)
[14:58] <asac> mvo: so you want to hack the hal init script?
[15:00] <mvo> asac: just temporarely to see if that fixes the problem or triggers (haha) a new one
[15:04] <vuntz> seb128: pong
[15:04] <seb128> vuntz: hey
[15:05] <seb128> vuntz: gnome-desktop-edit-item doesn't create +x desktop so launchers are unsecure according to nautilus standards
[15:05] <seb128> vuntz: that's a known issue? will you fix for 2.26? do you want a bug?
[15:06] <vuntz> seb128: that was unknown, but it should be fixed for 2.26, yes
[15:06] <seb128> vuntz: do you want a bug? alex said you were supposed to work on that
[15:07] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: tkamppeter: seb128: the desktop team meeting is scheduled for one hour and twenty-four minutes from now, right?
[15:07] <rickspencer3> (we already changed to daylight savings time, and it scrambled my calendar a bit)
[15:07] <seb128> rickspencer3: twenty-three minutes according to my clock
[15:07] <seb128> ;-)
[15:07] <asac> rickspencer3: i would think its scheduled for in 23 minutes
[15:07] <asac> ack
[15:07] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[15:07] <asac> let me look in calendar
[15:07] <pitti> ack
[15:07] <seb128> 1h23min
[15:07] <seb128> just to be clear
[15:08] <rickspencer3> seb128: thanks
[15:08] <seb128> np
[15:08] <rickspencer3> actually 1h22min
[15:08] <rickspencer3> :)
[15:08] <seb128> heh
[15:08] <vuntz> seb128: feel free to open a bug and make it a blocker
[15:08] <pitti> 1630 UTC
[15:08] <pitti> rickspencer3: ^
[15:08] <seb128> vuntz: ok
[15:08] <pitti> i. e. in 82 mins, yes
[15:08] <rickspencer3> heh
[15:08] <asac> ack 81 minutes :-P
[15:08] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: oh... good point :)
[15:09] <rickspencer3> pitti: seb128: thanks for catching and following up on the MI problems
[15:09] <kenvandine_wk> i forgot that... i i can eat lunch on time :)
[15:09] <seb128> rickspencer3: np
[15:09] <rickspencer3> great work
[15:09] <seb128> vuntz: gnome-desktop or gnome-panel bug?
[15:09] <vuntz> seb128: panel
[15:21] <seb128> pitti: ok, camera import working fine for me again in jaunty, one icon displayed only by gvfs and f-spot import correctly
[15:22] <pitti> seb128: hurray
[15:25] <mvo> excellent news :)
[15:27] <tkamppeter> rickspencer3, yes, it is.
[15:30] <mvo> asac: hrm, so I now deteted the (old) triggers file in my test upgrade, but this did not help, the same problem, just 2 devices
[15:33] <asac> mvo: is udev unpacked by then?
[15:38] <mvo> yes
[15:38] <mvo> unpacked but not configured
[15:40] <asac> mvo: i would guess its udev then
[15:41]  * kenvandine_wk -> lunch
[15:41] <asac> mvo: most likely hacked to death to tune boot time
[15:46] <asac> mvo: grepping through udev: ./udev/udevd.c:			inotify_add_watch(inotify_fd, SYSCONFDIR "/udev/rules.d",
[15:46] <asac> so probably the new rules cause issues when unpacked
[15:46] <pitti> that's to load new rules
[15:46] <pitti> but they only do something when a new device appears
[15:46] <pitti> or changes
[15:49] <asac> mvo: another idea would be to try to stop hal right in the beginning and then take care that it never comes up again until its finished?
[15:51] <asac> i mean as long as hal doesnt reappear in this broken state all should be fine. i can use NM happily with hal stopped
[15:53] <mvo> asac: hm, interessting idea, to just not let it restart in release upgrades
[15:55] <asac> mvo: well. in the end i would like to find the root cause. something must trigger hal or udev
[15:55] <asac> and we should prevent that
[16:05] <seb128> pitti: the amd64 retracer crashed on the same "ups" bug you fixed in trunk and i386 some hours ago
[16:06] <pitti> seb128: ok; I'll do an upload later today, and ensure it gets rolled out
[16:06] <pitti> seb128: do you think it's urgent to fix it?
[16:06] <pitti> I was too lazy to manually fix the chroot
[16:13] <Amaranth> mesa needs to not be as good
[16:14] <Amaranth> I liked it better when it didn't implement everything so software wouldn't think you've got hardware accel
[16:15] <pitti> heh
[16:16] <seb128> pitti: no
[16:16] <seb128> pitti: the amd64 was running normally for days so there is no catchup to do on this one
[16:17] <pitti> ok, what I thought
[16:19] <cj> Amaranth: we're living in difficult times
[16:19] <cj> nice to have a complete fallback, though :)
[16:21] <cj> seb128: you know if y'all have found a candidate for the opengl position yet?  I see it's still open on the jobs page.  I'd sure like to have a job where I could hack on that stuff as a day job.  Weekends don't provide enough contiguous time to get much done...
[16:22] <asac> pitti: err, since when does apport close bugs on its own?
[16:22] <asac> 338851
[16:22] <asac> AI ;)
[16:22] <pitti> asac: it has done that for a couple of weeks already, for outdated reports
[16:23] <pitti> I got lots of complaints of those reports being useless
[16:23] <asac> pitti: well the one above was submitted my mvo a few days ago
[16:23] <seb128> cj: no idea, talk to davidbarth about that
[16:23] <cj> seb128: alrighty.  thanks.
[16:23] <pitti> asac: well, stack trace is useless..
[16:24] <pitti> asac: do you want apport to keep them open?
[16:24] <pitti> asac: I can add a kind of "don't invalidate reports" whitelist
[16:24] <asac> pitti: yeah. i think its ok in general. just wonder if i missed an annonucement about that or something (because i was confused that i couldnt find his bug anymore ;))
[16:24] <seb128> asac: we crawl under incomplete crash bugs
[16:24] <pitti> seb128: ITYM "drown" :)
[16:24] <seb128> pitti: thanks ;-)
[16:25] <asac> pitti: no no ... just close ;) for me crashes as bugs has always been kind of wrong ;)
[16:25] <seb128> asac: the idea was to only keep those which are useful
[16:25] <pitti> asac: *phew* :)
[16:25] <asac> seb128: good idea and i am completely supportive
[16:25] <seb128> good ;-)
[16:25] <pitti> I tried to be nice in the close message
[16:26] <asac> its just that i think some backtraces have some ?? in it for firefox
[16:26] <pitti> but of course, a bot closing those bugs is always better than having it yourself
[16:26] <pitti> less bad conscience :)
[16:26] <pitti> asac: that's fine
[16:26] <asac> and still seem to be correct. havent checked if the heuristic properly catches tem
[16:26] <pitti> asac: it has three stages
[16:26] <pitti> asac: "perfect" -> no ??
[16:26] <pitti> asac: "useful" -> more than half of frames have function names
[16:26] <pitti> asac: "useless" -> rest
[16:27] <pitti> to be precise
[16:27] <pitti>     def has_useful_stacktrace(self):
[16:27] <pitti>         if len(unknown_fn) < 3:
[16:27] <pitti>             return unknown_fn.count(True) == 0
[16:27] <pitti>         return unknown_fn.count(True) <= len(unknown_fn)/2.
[16:27] <Amaranth> cj: do you really have the source code from your a modeler you made in 1999?
[16:27] <Amaranth> s/your//
[16:28] <cj> Amaranth: yes, but I just moved all the servers.  I can put up a tarball if you want it
[16:28] <asac> pitti: err. what does count(True) do?
[16:28] <Amaranth> cj: nah, just impressed
[16:29] <Amaranth> I would have tossed it
[16:29] <Amaranth> or lost it
[16:29] <cj> Amaranth: I'm pretty good about keeping track of that stuff.  I also have all of my email since then.
[16:29] <rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in  1 minute!
[16:29]  * cj takes position as fly on wall
[16:29] <mvo> asac: so my crash report does not contain anything useful?
[16:29] <mvo> hmm
[16:29] <pitti> asac: the number of Trues in the unknown_fn list
[16:29] <asac> mvo: seems not. you could try to retrace it manually locally
[16:29] <seb128> mvo: versions might have changed between report and retracing ...
[16:29] <pitti> asac: don't worry, that's implementation detail
[16:30] <asac> mvo: in the same system
[16:30] <pitti> asac: it says "if the stack trace is shorter than 3, all functions need to be known"
[16:30] <asac> pitti: ah so unknown_fn is a list of booleans
[16:30] <asac> ok
[16:30] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-03-10
[16:30] <ArneGoetje> Hi all
[16:30] <pitti> asac: and if it's >= 3 and <= 5, at least half of them need to be known
[16:30] <pitti> asac: right
[16:30] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[16:30] <pitti> asac:         unknown_fn = [f.startswith('??') for f in self['StacktraceTop'].splitlines()]
[16:30] <rickspencer3> I think Riddell is traveling back from Nigeria today
[16:30] <asac> pitti: yeah. thought unknown was a filtered list and not a boolean indiciation thing
[16:30] <seb128> *** MEETING ***
[16:31] <calc> hi
[16:31] <rickspencer3> hi calc
[16:31] <bryce_> hi
[16:31] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: wow, no other outstanding items? nice
[16:31] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: ?
[16:31] <rickspencer3> still having lunch :)
[16:31] <rickspencer3> ready to go?
[16:31] <asac> yes
[16:32] <rickspencer3> from last meeting, there was only one action: ACTION: rickspencer3 to post ideas from last week to the marketing team's wiki page.
[16:32] <rickspencer3> this is done
[16:32] <rickspencer3> feel free to add more
[16:32] <kenvandine> rickspencer3: i'm here
[16:32] <rickspencer3> pitti: had a three agenda items, which I think were related
[16:32] <pitti> right, but we discussed them with the DX team already
[16:32] <asac> rickspencer3: where is the marketing wiki page again?
[16:32] <rickspencer3> Indicator applet woes, MI bugs. I don't get any pidgin messages
[16:33] <pitti> so, as a summary, the current state of MI leaves several things to be desired
[16:33] <pitti> I'll convert the remaining ones to bug reports
[16:33] <pitti> so from my POV we can skip this now
[16:33] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:33] <rickspencer3> asac: internal wiki - https://wiki.canonical.com/Marketing/Launches/9.04/Messaging
[16:34] <rickspencer3> moving on then
[16:34] <asac> thx
[16:34] <pitti> I wasn't sure what *should* happen for pidgin messages
[16:34] <rickspencer3> 9.10 planning process
[16:34] <rickspencer3> this is just an fyi
[16:34] <rickspencer3> We (the platform team) are hosting a series of meetings with other canonical teams, called road map meetings. Some of you may be booked into one or two of them. There are 22 altogether. This will be very good fodder for UDS.
[16:34] <rickspencer3> that's 22 for the desktop team! though some meetings are only 15 minutes
[16:34] <pitti> 22 for the desktop team, right?
[16:35] <rickspencer3> next item is all hands
[16:35]  * pitti can contribute two
[16:35] <rickspencer3> everyone has submitted a talk for all hands, right?
[16:35] <seb128> 1 or 2 or 5 ;-)
[16:35] <kenvandine> rickspencer3: i will today :)
[16:35] <pitti> seb128: 5 hands?
[16:35] <kenvandine> haha
[16:35] <rickspencer3> a little zaphod beeblebrox action?
[16:35]  * seb128 slaps pitti
[16:35] <ArneGoetje> I did already
[16:35] <rickspencer3> three hands?
[16:36] <rickspencer3> asac: ?
[16:36] <pitti> I have two now
[16:36] <pitti> (talks)
[16:36] <calc> rickspencer3: i need to send mine in still, any suggestions for what i should do (anyone)?
[16:36] <seb128> rickspencer3: is that mandatory?
[16:36] <asac> rickspencer3: me and mvo and brian are doing a talk.i think there was a miscommunication who should submit that
[16:36] <seb128> the allhand talks
[16:36] <asac> rickspencer3: as we found out today. so we will do that now ;)
[16:36] <rickspencer3> seb128: this is one of the rare cases where I will say that something is mandatory
[16:36] <pitti> calc: personally I'd be interested in an "on par" feature comparison between current MS Office and OO.o
[16:37] <rickspencer3> mandatory to submit, obviously
[16:37] <pitti> calc: and a pony :)
[16:37] <rickspencer3> at least one
[16:37] <calc> pitti: heh
[16:37] <seb128> hum, I've no clue what to talk about
[16:37] <mvo> seb128: efficient bug triage
[16:37] <pitti> seb128: "how to deal with 2304823049320432 bugs every day" :)
[16:37] <rickspencer3> calc: besides the pony, also I think many people may be interested in how OO is released, the deal with Sun and Go OO
[16:37]  * pitti ^5s mvo
[16:37] <calc> ok
[16:37] <rickspencer3> seb128: yes, exactly
[16:37] <mvo> seb128: crash diagnosinis, valgrind
[16:37] <rickspencer3> what they said
[16:37] <pitti> mvo: that's my talk already, though :)
[16:38] <mvo> oh :)
[16:38] <asac> pitti: you can do that with seb128 together
[16:38] <asac> ;)
[16:38] <seb128> pitti is already doing that?
[16:38] <pitti> but I have 50% presentation and 50% discussion with audience
[16:38] <mvo> seb128: valgrind is probably a good idea
[16:38] <rickspencer3> you guys can team up, and show different ways of doing bug management
[16:38] <pitti> that was my idea
[16:38] <pitti> present how I handle them, collect experience from others
[16:38] <pitti> and in the end sum it up in a "best practices" wiki page
[16:38] <asac> i would appreciate to get pitti and seb128 on the stage in that talk, really
[16:38] <seb128> I can do one on GNOME regular schedules and how we handle updates otherwise I guess
[16:38]  * kenvandine makes a note to attend pitti's talk
[16:38] <rickspencer3> calc: OO, and your job, are very important to the company and to our users, I think there would be a lot of interest in hearing what interests *you* about OO
[16:39] <calc> ok
[16:39] <rickspencer3> new deadline to submit is March 13th
[16:39] <pitti> calc: or, "cool features unique to OO.o" perhaps?
[16:39]  * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
[16:39] <calc> yea friday the 13th :)
[16:39] <pitti> hehe
[16:39] <kenvandine> nice
[16:39] <rickspencer3> for those of you who have already submitted, the track leads are reviewing and will let us know what topics are accepted.
[16:40] <rickspencer3> (I should create a whip cracking noises plugin for pidgin)
[16:40] <rickspencer3> any more questions regarding all hands?
[16:40] <rickspencer3> moving on then ...
[16:40] <rickspencer3> release status
[16:41] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:41] <pitti> I don't really envy bryce_ ..
[16:41] <rickspencer3> looks like our RC list has grown quite a bit :(
[16:41] <bryce_> :-/
[16:41] <pitti> anyway, I believe we won't be able to fix each and every X.org bug/regression, so we should think about fallback plans
[16:41] <calc> i think we should demote 305790 unless someone knows how to backport just the code changes to fix jaxme
[16:42] <pitti> rickspencer3: grown> partly my fault; I went through the jaunty/milestoned bugs and added proper assignees, and such
[16:42] <calc> otherwise the new jaxme which uses maven will pull in a lot of other universe packages due to maven
[16:42] <rickspencer3> pitti: ack - but that's very good to know what is really there
[16:42] <pitti> calc: what would break in OO.o without jaxme?}
[16:42] <pitti> rickspencer3: right
[16:42] <rickspencer3> bryce_: is there anything we should be doing to help with x?
[16:43] <calc> pitti: probably lots of stuff since it is a lower level dep, OOo doesn't use it directly aiui but through libdom4j-java (iirc)
[16:43] <bryce_> rickspencer3: do you mean like helping report these bugs upstream?  That could help a lot
[16:43] <pitti> calc: if it breaks something important, I'll connect with doko and try to help out
[16:43] <asac> calc: what is jaxme?
[16:44] <calc> asac: some sort of java xml compiler
[16:44] <bryce_> most of the bugs on this list are already on progress, we're just waiting for someone external to finish doing fixes
[16:44] <asac> calc: yeah. seems like its xml bindings
[16:45] <kenvandine> calc: probably breaks the docs?
[16:45] <calc> pitti: i think it would break search among other things
[16:45] <pitti> calc: ugh, let's not then
[16:45] <bryce_> hmm, 2328035  is not a real bug... is that a typo?
[16:45] <calc> pitti: since libsaxonb-java -> libdom4j-java -> libjaxme-java
[16:45] <pitti> bryce_: yeah, just trying to figure out the correct number; I saw it, but typoed
[16:46] <calc> pitti: its so interconnected it might break just about all of OOo's java bits, heh
[16:46] <bryce_> seems to be 328035
[16:46] <calc> pitti: it also is depended on by libjaxen which in turn is by libxom-java, etc
[16:47] <pitti> bryce_: it's bug 328035
[16:47] <bryce_> ok, that one we're still waiting on further testing from steve
[16:47] <pitti> eek, it detected a glibc!
[16:47] <seb128> lol
[16:47] <calc> bryce_: i've seen 328035 again since last week but it seems much less common than in the past for some reason
[16:47] <seb128> let's uninstall that and see if that fixes the bug ;-)
[16:47] <rickspencer3> I'm detecting glibc right now
[16:48] <bryce_> 267241 I need to set up a system and reproduce; I wrote a patch that I think fixes it, just need to test it to be sure
[16:48] <seb128> bug #267241
[16:48] <calc> well maybe not 328035 but the intel video crash on resume anyway
[16:48] <pitti> bryce_: rocking
[16:48] <rickspencer3> bryce_: sweet
[16:48] <bryce_> rickspencer3: there is one bug I could use seb128's help on though
[16:49] <seb128> which one?
[16:49] <bryce_> give me a minute to locate it
[16:49] <cj> I've got an intel video card in my laptop.  if you need someone to attempt a repro, I've been meaning to test out jaynty anyway.
[16:49] <seb128> there is GNOME 2.26 due next week though
[16:49] <seb128> so I expect to be busy a lot soon
[16:49] <rickspencer3> cj: you should test out Jaunty ... while we are discussing bugs, it's actually in quite good shape imho
[16:50] <rickspencer3> seb128: ack
[16:50] <rickspencer3> while bryce_ is looking for that bug, may we move on to work items?
[16:50] <calc> rickspencer3: the OOo gvfs bug with smb not saving appears to be ooo-build related, it works with sun version, so i filed a novell ooo-build bug about it and will look into the patches that might cause it
[16:50] <pitti> seb128: I think kenvandine and I can help with the updates, and I with sponsoring
[16:51] <bryce_> bug 67188 - which is actually a whole bunch of unrelated bugs, but we can't debug them because GNOME is hiding the error messages.  So seb128 I need your help solving #328980 first
[16:51] <rickspencer3> ug
[16:51] <seb128> bryce_: should be easy enough to patch that redirect to null out no?
[16:51] <seb128> let's talk about that after the meering
[16:51] <seb128> meeting
[16:52] <calc> rickspencer3: also caolan (redhat OOo) gave me a hint on what to do that might help make disabling gvfs entirely in OOo work via gvfs fuse
[16:52] <bryce_> seb128: ok
[16:52] <rickspencer3> calc: sweet
[16:52] <bryce_> seb128: I do think it's easy, I am just up to my eyeballs an don't have time to work on it myself
[16:52] <seb128> pitti: thanks, we have a good team of contributors nowadays so good part of the work is sponsoring indeed, help on that is appreciated ;-)
[16:52] <seb128> bryce_: oh, known feeling ;-)
[16:53] <seb128> but it should be easy to get one of those people running into the issue to do a rebuild to get debug informations
[16:53] <rickspencer3> calc: I think it might help for you to go over your ideas with a colleague before you dive in. Sometimes a sanity check can really help
[16:53] <bryce_> rickspencer3: also I'm waiting on feedback from asac on one of the bugs he reported that I put in a fix for last week.  I'd love to just get his thumb's up so I can upload the fix.
[16:53] <calc> rickspencer3: yea seb128 might know something about the fix caolan mentioned :)
[16:54] <asac> bryce_: the xhost thing?
[16:54] <pitti> calc: is the gvfs fuse daemon working for you, in general? or is that the problem?
[16:54] <pitti> calc: I'm asking because it wasn't working for me either, and it took me a bit to find out why
[16:54] <asac> bryce_: thumbs up. and no, i really dont think we need to enable tcp
[16:54] <bryce_> asac: yep
[16:54] <bryce_> asac: great thanks.
[16:55] <calc> pitti: fuse works but (i think) i need to convince the file dialog to give OOo the local url instead of the remote uri to the file
[16:55] <asac> bryce_: if you want me to verify the fix in practice wait till tomorrow. but i can check that once it arrives here imo
[16:55] <seb128> calc: I have difficulties to parse your " that might help make disabling gvfs entirely in OOo work via gvfs fuse"
[16:55] <calc> pitti: ie saving to ~/.gvfs/foo inside OOo works, but clicking the left side gvfs mount does not
[16:56] <calc> seb128: i tried disabling gvfs in OOo and have it fall back to using fuse support only, but that doesn't work since it appears it is giving remote uri's to internal OOo via its file dialog still
[16:56] <seb128> calc: does ooffice tries to use gvfs uris or does it rely on the fuse mounts?
[16:56] <calc> seb128: caolan mentioned gtk_file_chooser_set_local_only might make it use the fuse urls
[16:56] <seb128> right
[16:56] <calc> if that does work i just need to determine where to stick that line :)
[16:57] <calc> i just got that email this morning so haven't had a chance to dig around in it yet
[16:57]  * kenvandine has a crashy desktop he needs to collect info for and file a bug
[16:57] <kenvandine> hard lock right before the meeting started
[16:57] <calc> i think relying on fuse would be much better than trying to use the gvfs/gio support in OOo anyway since it appears to be very buggy in general
[16:57] <seb128> do you switch users or use guest session?
[16:57] <asac> kenvandine: like the mouse worked, but was in kind of "select" text mode?
[16:57] <kenvandine> not that bug
[16:57] <asac> k
[16:57] <kenvandine> i have seen that too
[16:58] <kenvandine> seb128: and when i switch users Xorg crashes
[16:58] <rickspencer3> so, good discussion, and actions to take out of the bug conversation?
[16:58] <seb128> calc: gvfs is not that buggy, the ooffice use of it might be
[16:58] <kenvandine> known bugs
[16:58] <calc> seb128: yea sorry if that parsed wrong, the gvfs/gio support in OOo is the buggy bit
[16:58] <pitti> calc: *nod*
[16:59] <calc> i think i got the parts of gvfs fuse that were causing problems for OOo resolved with gvfs 1.1.8
[16:59] <rickspencer3> is someone going to try to get more debugging info for bug 67188?
[16:59] <seb128> calc: ok good so let's do that
[16:59] <asac> rickspencer3: bryce_ talked about that above
[16:59] <seb128> rickspencer3: I will discuss that was bryce_ after the meeting
[16:59] <rickspencer3> asac: yeah, but I didn't see an action
[16:59] <bryce_> asac: your xauth fix is uploaded now
[16:59] <rickspencer3> seb128: ok
[16:59] <calc> seb128: yep will do, just need to patch it to see fuse urls and then it will be good to go :)
[17:00] <asac> bryce_: thanks. i will check the hostname changes toomrrow
[17:00] <rickspencer3> ACTION : seb128 and bryce_ to work on getting more debugging info for bug 67188
[17:00] <rickspencer3> shall we move on to the work items?
[17:00] <asac> yes. please.
[17:00] <seb128> yes
[17:00] <calc> yes
[17:00] <kenvandine> yup
[17:00] <rickspencer3> pitti: shall I set these as "done", "postponed"?
[17:00] <rickspencer3> pitti:Advice Dx Team Regarding where to store assets such as icon:not started pitti:Advice Dx Team Regarding “Do not disturb systems”:not started
[17:01] <rickspencer3> pitti:Advice Dx Team Regarding where to store assets such as icon:not started
[17:01] <rickspencer3> pitti:Advice Dx Team Regarding where to store assets such as icon:not started pitti:Advice Dx Team Regarding “Do not disturb systems”:not started
[17:01] <rickspencer3> sorry :P
[17:01] <rickspencer3> there are two in any case
[17:01] <pitti> rickspencer3: I still want to talk to ted about those
[17:01] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:01] <rickspencer3> Riddell is not here, so we'll have to skip his for now
[17:02] <rickspencer3> bryce_: should this be postponed? bryce:Support the Dx team by consulting and helping with low level packages.:blocked
[17:02] <bryce_> rickspencer3: honestly I don't know what that task is
[17:02] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:02] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:02] <bryce_> rickspencer3: as far as I know, I have nothing to do there, so mark it done?
[17:02] <rickspencer3> bryce_: I think the Dx team wanted help with something, so I'll follow up with them and make sure they are good
[17:02] <bryce_> I'm of course happy to help if they need it, but they've not asked for anything
[17:03] <rickspencer3> pitti: this should be postponed: pitti:Refactor packages and build system to support moving help files to language packs:blocked
[17:03] <rickspencer3> asac:Adobe Flash in partner repository with apturl:started
[17:03] <rickspencer3> when should that be "done"?
[17:04] <pitti> rickspencer3: ack
[17:04] <rickspencer3> bryce_: should these be postponed?
[17:04] <asac> rickspencer3: we have to do the next step this week. luckily its not really a freeze thing because the technology is already in
[17:04] <rickspencer3> bryce:Create X Historical Package Pages:started
[17:04] <rickspencer3> bryce:Create X Smoke Tests:started
[17:04] <rickspencer3> asac: ack
[17:04] <rickspencer3> in general, I think we are in great shape
[17:05] <rickspencer3> except for Kubuntu, many of the remaining items are almost done, trivial, or aren't critical for Jaunty
[17:05] <bryce_> rickspencer3: okay.  I'd like to get them off the list though.  I just can't seem to find a good solid week or two to work on them.
[17:06] <rickspencer3> bryce_: n/p
[17:06] <calc> pitti: the libxom-java and libjaxme-java as mentioned before probably need doko to examine them, would you like me to ping him about the issues or do you want to?
[17:06] <calc> pitti: the libxom-java case seems to be it fails on buildds but not on developer machines due to a resources issue of some sort
[17:06] <rickspencer3> they don't really block Jaunty, right? So we can just postpone them and you can pick them up later
[17:06] <rickspencer3> everyone sent an activity report, so thanks for that
[17:06] <bryce_> they don't block jaunty; neither actually go into ubuntu, they're just test stuff
[17:06] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:07] <pitti> calc: you have more context about what's needed, so if you could?
[17:07] <bryce_> like documentation, test stuff is always the last thing to get done ;-)
[17:07] <calc> pitti: ok
[17:07] <asac> rickspencer3: last cylcle the roundtable calls not always had an agenda
[17:07] <asac> rickspencer3: i even had one call where all parties didnt know who wanted that call ;)
[17:07] <rickspencer3> asac: ack
[17:07] <rickspencer3> this should be significantly improved this time around
[17:08] <rickspencer3> we have a template and everything :) !
[17:08] <asac> rickspencer3: would be good if any invite has a clearly marked leader who takes responsibility for the agenda too
[17:08] <asac> rickspencer3: great.
[17:08] <rickspencer3> asac: that's already covered. mdz sent everyone a list of their responsibilities
[17:09] <rickspencer3> of course, you can't guarantee everyone actually fulfills the expectations, but none the less ...
[17:09] <pitti> calc: let's disuss that in the MIR bug, and I'll poke doko about it
[17:09] <asac> sure
[17:09] <rickspencer3> one last word
[17:09] <pitti> calc: I'm subscribed; so please just summarize the current situation there
[17:09] <rickspencer3> I know that everyone is working very hard right now ...
[17:09] <rickspencer3> but I can tell you from where I am sitting, it is paying off
[17:09] <kenvandine> ;)
[17:09] <seb128> rickspencer3: thanks ;-)
[17:09] <calc> pitti: ok
[17:09] <rickspencer3> I think Jaunty is going to be a really solid release and really mean a lot to our users
[17:10] <seb128> +1
[17:10] <pitti> \o/
[17:10] <rickspencer3> I know they will appreciate the extra attention to quality this release, and there are some cool new features
[17:10] <pitti> fix...more...bugz
[17:10] <bryce_> I hope so, so far it seems like just an endless stream of bugs
[17:10] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:10] <seb128> I'm pretty happy how things shaped this cycle, upstream codebase didn't change too much and the focus on fixing has been good
[17:10] <pitti> btw, we should get an update to http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html
[17:10] <pitti> it's pretty old now
[17:10] <kenvandine> bryce_: that is always the case for Xorg :)
[17:10] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[17:11] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: do you know anything about X?
[17:11] <bryce_> kenvandine: indeedy
[17:11] <kenvandine> rickspencer3: not enough
[17:11] <pitti> kenvandine: run!
[17:11] <rickspencer3> I think we should all try to peel off an hour or two over the next week and see if there is some little thing we can do to help bryce_ out
[17:11] <bryce_> lol
[17:11] <kenvandine> best i can do is help test bugs and report them
[17:11] <asac> so even more bugs ;)
[17:11] <kenvandine> yup :)
[17:12] <kenvandine> and maintain packages
[17:12] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: that helps, actually
[17:12] <kenvandine> xorg hurts me
[17:12] <bryce_> getting backtraces on any crash or hang you've reported would help a lot.  Or even just assisting with bug triage in any of the X packages would be quite welcomed.
[17:12] <kenvandine> rickspencer3: yup...  i know
[17:12] <rickspencer3> so does testing out bugs as they get fixed, etc...
[17:12] <kenvandine> bryce_: jaunty is also stressing Xorg more... enabling compiz by default
[17:12] <pitti> and if you file a bug, file it upstream as well, and link it
[17:12] <kenvandine> so uncovering more crap i bet
[17:12] <kenvandine> sure
[17:12] <asac> bryce_: is UXA off the table for this cycle or do you want me to keep using it (its broken since yesterday)
[17:13] <pitti> everyone here needs a bugzilla.{freedesktop,gnome}.org account anyway
[17:13] <kenvandine> asac: broken?
[17:13] <kenvandine> working here
[17:13] <kenvandine> UXA makes my box usable
[17:13] <asac> kenvandine: its not usable with compiz ... slow
[17:13] <kenvandine> pitti: got mine :)
[17:13] <rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
[17:13] <bryce_> a lot of X bugs we're stuck because we don't have good debug and/or testing info.  I've got some troubleshooting guides at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting that can help guide you to get deeper info.
[17:13] <kenvandine> asac: fast as hell here
[17:13] <kenvandine> bryce_: thx
[17:13] <bryce_> rickspencer3: thanks
[17:13] <asac> kenvandine: it worked all the time. bug upgrade from yesterday night killed it
[17:13] <kenvandine> rickspencer3: yeah
[17:13] <asac> kenvandine: have you upgraded today?
[17:13] <rickspencer3> thanks all
[17:13] <kenvandine> asac: hummm
[17:14]  * kenvandine checks
[17:14] <asac> thanks all
[17:14] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[17:14] <pitti> thanks all
[17:14] <rickspencer3> seb128: talk to you in 16 minutes
[17:14] <seb128> rickspencer3: indeed
[17:14] <kenvandine> asac: no i haven't.... asac is it confirmed it is broken for everyone?
[17:14] <rickspencer3> g'night ArneGoetje, talk to you in the morning
[17:14] <seb128> thanks everybody
[17:14]  * kenvandine is scared to break his desktop more :)
[17:14] <asac> kenvandine: i dont think that many upgrade three times a day ;)
[17:14] <calc> pitti: updated the bug report
[17:14] <kenvandine> asac: got a bug number?
[17:15] <kenvandine> i can verify :)
[17:15] <bryce_> asac: I built a new -intel last night which purports to fix a lot of UXA bugs, but had to wait for the libdrm I did yesterday to get to the mirrors.  But now we're in freeze so need to check with steve before uploading it
[17:15] <asac> kenvandine: no. i didnt want to bother bryce_ before asking if UXA is really something we want to work on this cycle
[17:15] <bryce_> asac: anyway, so I dunno if UXA is this is going to make UXA stable enough to consider, so your continued testing would be very appreciated
[17:15] <kenvandine> ok, only breaks uxa
[17:15] <asac> bryce_: well. so you say the problem might be because its out of sycn?
[17:15] <asac> bryce_: if so we should open bug and mark it as release critical
[17:15] <pitti> calc: thanks
[17:16] <kenvandine> bryce_: got something I can install locally if it breaks for me?
[17:16] <asac> bryce_: which should give enough reason to bring stuff in sync again
[17:16] <pitti> bryce_: I'm happy to test it, but I have some serious gripes about doing the switch in Jaunty..
[17:16] <cj> compiz is enabled by default?  Does there exist a 'minimum requiement' specification for Jaunty?
[17:16] <asac> kenvandine: does EXA not work for me?
[17:16] <asac> kenvandine: for me it didnt work in the past, but today it worked (luckily)
[17:17]  * calc bbl, lunch
[17:17] <asac> kenvandine: s/for me/for you/
[17:17] <kenvandine> asac: it was slow for me
[17:17] <asac> damn. you know what i mean
[17:17] <asac> kenvandine:yeah. but its still usable so you shouldnt be scared to upgrade ;)
[17:17] <kenvandine> not really usable :)
[17:17] <kenvandine> really really slow
[17:17] <asac> hmm .. probably it was just flipped then ;)
[17:17] <bryce_> pitti: yeah I don't really want to do the switch in jaunty either.  But upstream is putting 100% bug fixing attention into UXA, and round about 0% in EXA, so we're standing on a crumbling ledge and need to jump at some point...
[17:17] <kenvandine> like over a minute to render the app switcher
[17:18] <asac> bryce_: so where can i get the package?
[17:18] <asac> bryce_: to test if it fixes UXA for me
[17:18] <pitti> bryce_: I guess we can upload the bug fixes either way, it's just a question of the default, right?
[17:19] <bryce_> asac: I'll have it later today; I need to rebuild it with the libdrm dependency
[17:19] <pitti> bryce_: since we are in a6 freeze, perhaps upload to your PPA and send out a CFT?
[17:19] <bryce_> pitti: that's was I was planning
[17:20] <pitti> \o/
[17:20] <kenvandine> bryce_: great
[17:20]  * kenvandine updates/breaks his box :)
[17:21] <pitti> bryce_: I guess the default is for the entire driver, it's not model or model range or chipset specific?
[17:21] <pitti> bryce_: I. e. can we say "enable it on 945, but not on the 845"?
[17:21] <asac> i guess this would be a similar effort as deciding whether we want compositing in metacity or not
[17:22] <pitti> yeah, whitelisting based on testing
[17:22] <bryce_> pitti: well, the easiest change to make is all or nothing
[17:22] <pitti> bryce_: right
[17:22] <pitti> bryce_: so in intrepid it was XAA across the board, right?
[17:22] <bryce_> pitti: however of course you can always put in whatever you want int he code to whitelist/blacklist specific pci ids, chip families, etc.
[17:23] <pitti> bryce_: oh, hang on, that's still per-driver, or for all drivers?
[17:23] <asac> pitti: EXA for intel i would think in intrepid
[17:23] <bryce_> however in the case of UXA we never saw good correlation of it works for 965 but not 915 for instance - there were failures being reported across the board on all chipsets
[17:23] <pitti> didn't we have the "enable EXA" spec for jaunty?
[17:23] <pitti> bryce_: ah, so e. g. the artifacts with compiz happened on all chipsets?
[17:23] <bryce_> pitti: UXA is specific to -intel; it is not appropriate for any other driver
[17:24] <pitti> bryce_: any idea how that relates to bug 304871?
[17:24] <pitti> bryce_: i. e. will older chips be even worse off with UXA?
[17:25] <bryce_> pitti: one of the design assumptions for UXA is that the video memory and the system memory are physically shared - which is only true for on-board integrated video cards; so for video drivers that are used with discrete cards (nvidia, ati, etc.) that assumption doesn't hold, so UXA wouldn't be usable on them
[17:25] <bryce_> pitti: the enable EXA spec was for -ati
[17:25] <bryce_> pitti: purportedly the UXA changes would fix that BO front buffer bug
[17:26] <pitti> oh!
[17:26] <bryce_> pitti: however in testing it was found it didn't solve the problem as upstream had said it would
[17:26] <pitti> un-oh!
[17:26] <bryce_> but there are tons of BO fixes in the 2.6.3 changelog, so maybe...
[17:27] <bryce_> I am coming not to trust the -intel upstream quite so readily though ;-)
[17:27] <pitti> bryce_: would be curious if the crack-of-the-day UXA would fix chips that the more solid EXA obsoleted..
[17:28] <bryce_> you mean 8xx?  don't hold your breath
[17:29] <cj> bryce_: will a GM965/GL960 suffice as a repro card for bug 328035?
[17:30] <cj> also, I may not be able to get this laptop to sleep/wakeup...
[17:30] <bryce_> cj: maybe
[17:30] <cj> any way to fake a wakeup?
[17:30] <bryce_> cj: it may be particular to the lenovo's 965 specifically
[17:31] <bryce_> cj: that I don't know
[17:31] <bryce_> cj: but you should report suspend/resume troubles to the kernel team.  There's a test script out now for those kinds of issues.
[17:31] <cj> this is a sony vgn cr520e.. I'll post a lspci dump in a moment...
[17:31] <cj> oh?  do they have a channel on freenode?
[17:32] <bryce_> cj: you mean like #ubuntu-kernel?
[17:33] <cj> yeah, something like that :)
[17:33] <bryce_> ;-)
[17:35] <pitti> cj: why fake a wakeup? neither suspend nor hibernate works for you?
[17:36] <cj> pitti: da
[17:37] <cj> pitti: it's been a while since I tried it... I'm dist-upgrading to jaunty as we type, so I'll give it a go when that finishes...
[17:38] <bryce_> I've just uploaded the new intel 2.6.3 to my ppa
[17:38] <bryce_> I'll put out an email to #ubuntu-x once it's finished building
[17:40] <asac> bryce_: what is your ppa? ~bryce?
[17:40] <asac> or with last name too?
[17:40] <bryce_> ~bryceharrington
[17:40] <asac> k
[17:40] <asac> i will check that tomorrow. today is almost done
[17:57] <crevette> didrocks: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/337911 updated
[17:58] <didrocks> crevette: I finish a build on dapper first and I am up to you :)
[18:03] <didrocks> crevette: is it the file you uploaded http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23727032/nautilus-sendto_1.1.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz ?
[18:04] <seb128> pitti: can you look at accept pidgin srus?
[18:05] <didrocks> seb128: I can upload gaim for hardy right now. Do you have something to test it?
[18:05] <seb128> didrocks: dapper you mean?
[18:05] <crevette> didrocks: no
[18:05] <didrocks> seb128: oupsss, sorry, dapper yes
[18:05] <seb128> no
[18:06] <crevette> didrocks: my changelog has just changelog related to nautilus-sendto-universe
[18:06] <didrocks> crevette: strange, I see that in your comment :/
[18:06] <crevette> I admit I didn't check the file before uploading
[18:06] <crevette> letme check
[18:06] <didrocks> seb128: I upload it in everycase and for someone to test it with an ICQ account?
[18:06] <seb128> didrocks: yes
[18:08] <didrocks> crevette: last time, it was the same: it seems you uploaded nautilus-sendto and not nautilus-sendto-universe
[18:08] <didrocks> seb128: isn't better that I add the gaim package to the bug, instead of pidgin one, for automatic closure?
[18:08] <crevette> didrocks: okay, I uploaded the wrong one :)
[18:08] <seb128> didrocks: yes indeed
[18:09] <didrocks> crevette: twice :p not do a third one ;)
[18:09] <crevette> okay done
[18:10] <didrocks> seb128: it recreates all candidates /o\ I have to invalidate some :)
[18:11] <seb128> yes
[18:12] <crevette> for nemiver, is the changelog can be like http://dpaste.com/12031/ or should I remove reference of GNOME bugs
[18:12] <didrocks> crevette: fixe minute ;)
[18:12] <didrocks> five*
[18:17] <cj> didrocks: that's much better than "/me ducks"
[18:19] <didrocks> cj: :)
[18:19] <didrocks> ok, crevette let's have a look
[18:21] <didrocks> crevette: all depends fo the readibility, I usually remove them and nobody killed me (apparently ;))
[18:21] <didrocks> of*
[18:22] <crevette> didrocks: yeah, I have mixed feelings, let's remove them
[18:23] <didrocks> crevette: the important thing is that you check there are not taken as launchpad bugs (so, listed in .changes file when building your source package)
[18:23] <crevette> yeah :)
[18:24] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128. i just saw someone reported a gnome-session bug describing what tedg was experiencing a few days ago (vino-server continually spawning). do you think that is actually a gnome-session bug?
[18:24] <chrisccoulson> bug 340515 fyi
[18:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson: is vino-server crashing?
[18:24] <chrisccoulson> not sure, i suppose i should find out. i wasn't sure if tedg had understood why it was happening
[18:28] <crevette> didrocks: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/337914 is updated as well
[18:37] <pitti> seb128: sure
[18:37] <seb128> pitti: danke
[18:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson: did you send the gnome-desktop-edit-item bug upstream btw?
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> its done
[18:44] <seb128> thanks
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> ii was confused at first as i wasn't sure what gnome-panel had to do with it. i worked it out in the end though ;)
[18:45] <pitti> seb128: hardy and intrepid accepted; I don't see a dapper and gutsy upload?
[18:45] <seb128> pitti: do we care about gutsy?
[18:46] <seb128> pitti: there is a debdiff for gaim dapper on the bug but nobody has a dapper install around to build and test it apparently
[18:46] <pitti> seb128: oh, I'll sponsor dapper then, I have a dapper chroot
[18:46] <seb128> ETOOMANYSUPPORTEDVERSIONS
[18:47] <seb128> pitti: danke
[18:47] <pitti> seb128: I think we should still update gutsy, it has another month to live, and the backport is probably trivial
[18:47] <seb128> right
[18:47] <seb128> I've no gutsy install either
[18:49] <pitti> neither have I, I'm afraid, but I can bootstrap one
[18:49] <seb128> pitti: let's source build on an another and upload to proposed
[18:50] <pitti> "on an another"?
[18:50] <seb128> pitti: I doubt many users will complain about gutsy-proposed
[18:50] <seb128> +ubuntu version
[18:50] <pitti> ah, right
[18:50] <seb128> if the patch apply cleanly no need to test build on gutsy
[18:50] <pitti> seb128: I'll test didrocks's gaim update on dapper, since it's untested
[18:50] <seb128> just do a source upload, let's the buildd do that
[18:50] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[18:50] <pitti> seb128: I agree, we can test the -propsoed .debs
[18:52] <pitti> seb128: they should work on hardy, too
[18:52] <didrocks> pitti & seb128 : thanks a lot. If I can do anything (no, I won't search for my deprecated icq account :))
[18:53] <pitti> I actively use ICQ, so I can test dapper
[18:53] <pitti> seb128: do you have an icq account?
[18:53] <pitti> or anyone else here?
[18:53] <didrocks> pitti: great ;) I must advocate I dropped everything for jabber
[18:55] <seb128> pitti: yes
[18:55] <seb128> pitti: not on jabber?
[18:55] <pitti> seb128: well, we are testing ICQ here :)
[18:55] <pitti> seb128: I just stopped pidgin to start gaim
[18:55]  * pitti currently configures his account
[18:56] <pitti> hm, I can log into ICQ just fine with current dapper's gaim
[18:56] <pitti> seb128: I am 135336116, can you please ping me?
[18:57] <crevette> is ICQ still one of the top IM protocol ? it was when I was young, let say 12 years ago
[18:58]  * crevette did use ICQ for a while, and has not use it since few years
[18:58] <pitti> crevette: nowadays a lot of my friends are using skype (I don't), but it's still fairly popular here, yes
[18:58] <pitti> I'm mainly using it because they do :)
[18:58] <crevette> XMPP for the win
[18:58] <pitti> works fine for me
[18:58] <pitti> just talking to a friend
[18:59] <pitti> tsk, how can a 3 year old client still work and a 0.5 year old not?
[19:00] <didrocks> pitti: the parameters have changed
[19:00] <pitti> didrocks: right, I know
[19:00] <pitti> didrocks: but the current dapper version (not your patched one) works just fine
[19:00] <didrocks> pitti: apparently old protocol continues working :)
[19:00] <seb128> pitti: I added you but you are not online? or didn't add me?
[19:00] <pitti> seb128: you don't appear in my list either
[19:01] <pitti> ah, there you come
[19:01] <seb128> ok, that works!
[19:02] <seb128> ok, I've to go for dinner, bbl
[19:02] <didrocks> seb128: have a nice dinner!
[19:02] <seb128> thanks, you too
[19:02] <didrocks> crevette: nautilus-sendto-universe seems good (build and install). I upload it right now
[19:03] <cj> eep.  ctrl-alt-backspace broke!
[19:03] <pitti> cj: s/broke/was disabled/
[19:03] <cj> pitti: okay.  I can see the argument for that.  *sigh*
[19:03] <cj> how do I toggle that?
[19:04] <cj> it probably breaks some apps, doesn't it?
[19:05] <pitti> cj: install dontzap, it has a scrpit; or modify xorg.conf manually
[19:06] <crevette> didrocks: danke
[19:07] <cj> is my proxy doing something weird?  I'm getting a bad sig for dists/jaunty/Release (40976eaf437d05b5)
[19:11] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: ekiga 3.2 is planned for next week
[19:16] <pitti> we don't even have 3.1 yet..
[19:18] <dobey> did icon-naming-utils 0.8.90 get pulled in yet?
[19:19] <kenvandine_wk> pitti:  i know, 3.1 is a devel release and seb128 was wanting to know if 3.2 would come out with gnome 2.26
[19:19] <kenvandine_wk> before we thought about updating it
[19:20] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: did we really want to update libgda from 3.0.2 to 3.99.13?
[19:20] <kenvandine_wk> that is a major bump
[19:20] <kenvandine_wk> 3755 lines in the Changelog
[19:24] <cj> oooh, hibernate seems to work...
[19:25] <cj> however, resume does not...
[19:26] <kenvandine_wk> cj: then hibernate doesn't sound so useful :)
[19:26] <cj> kenvandine_wk: I'll agree with you :)
[19:26] <cj> but the little light on the bottom of my computer does its flashy thing during hibernate...
[19:27] <cj> which may be considered "useful" by some.  probably those in marketing...
[19:27] <kenvandine_wk> hehe
[19:27] <crevette> kenvandine: 3.99.13 is a pre-version for 4.0 so It's seems risky
[19:28] <kenvandine_wk> crevette: exactly
[19:28] <kenvandine_wk> but if 4.0 will be part of 2.26... maybe
[19:28] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: if we want it, then we should package the devel release sooner rather than later
[19:29] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: I still remember the pain we had with the upgrade to 3.0
[19:29] <pitti> in one major step that took a lot of time, and broke a lot
[19:29] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: yeah, just want to check with seb128 before i spend a ton of time on it
[19:29] <crevette> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2009-January/msg00006.html
[19:29] <crevette> ligda is in, but there is no decision on the version
[19:35] <seb128> kenvandine_wk:
[19:35] <seb128> $ apt-cache showsrc libgda4 | grep Version
[19:35] <seb128> Version: 3.99.11-0ubuntu1
[19:35] <kenvandine_wk> oh
[19:35] <kenvandine_wk> doh
[19:35] <kenvandine_wk> i didn't see that :)
[19:35] <seb128> kenvandine_wk, pitti: before beta seems the right time to update ekiga if we want to do it
[19:36] <pitti> right
[19:36] <pitti> we should track their dev releases as we track GNOME's
[19:36] <seb128> ETOOMUCHTODOANDNOINTEREST but right ;-)
[19:36] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: ekiga is one of those unchartered^Wunmaintained corners of the GNOME desktop, that I was talking about
[19:36] <seb128> if somebody wants to do the updates that would be nice
[19:36] <pitti> seb128: if only we had another GNOME maintainer...
[19:37] <pitti> :)
[19:37] <seb128> pitti: ;-)
[19:37] <pitti> March 16!
[19:37] <pitti> seb128, didrocks: for the record, preparing pidgin/gutsy right now
[19:37] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[19:37] <didrocks> pitti: ok, thanks :)
[19:38] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: want me to take ekiga and it's deps too?
[19:38] <pitti> didrocks: I just apply your debdiff to the gutsy version
[19:38] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: if you have time, and it interests you, sure
[19:38] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: I'm happy to test it again with you :)
[19:38] <didrocks> crevette: uploaded, thanks, please, check my comments on minor issues on bug #337914
[19:38] <pitti> kenvandine_wk: last time wasn't very successful :)
[19:39] <didrocks> pitti: you cheated :p
[19:39] <kenvandine_wk> pitti: i have a few things in front of it in queue :)
[19:39] <kenvandine_wk> but i can do it when i have time
[19:39] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: would be nice!
[19:40] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: opal and ptlib probably need to be update too right?
[19:40] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: also, what about libgdamm?  is there a 3.99 package for it?
[19:40] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: yes
[19:40] <kenvandine_wk> always do
[19:40] <kenvandine_wk> :/
[19:40]  * kenvandine_wk actually hates that stack... but knows it pretty well :)
[19:41] <seb128> hehe
[19:41] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: I don't think so for libgdamm and no hurry I don't think anything use it right now
[19:41] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[19:41]  * kenvandine_wk ditches that one for now :)
[19:41] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: do libgda and ekiga stack first we will see about that later
[19:42] <crevette> didrocks: okay thanks a lot for the fixes
[19:42] <didrocks> I am going to have my lunch now, bbl
[19:42] <didrocks> crevette: you're welcome :)
[19:43] <mvo> didrocks: a late lunch :)
[19:43] <mvo> bon appetite
[19:43] <seb128> didrocks: dinner you mean right?
[19:44] <didrocks> mvo: thanks
[19:45] <didrocks> seb128: hum, considering I didn't have the time at work to have my lunch, technically… :)
[19:47] <seb128> didrocks: enjoy anyway ;-)
[19:48] <didrocks> seb128: thanks ;)
[19:52] <seb128> bbl
[21:01] <seb128> pitti: still aorund?
[21:01] <seb128> around
[21:01] <seb128> pitti: do you know why bug #340508 has been cleaned?
[21:02] <seb128> pitti: I've seen several bugs that I know to be duplicated cleaned today
[21:02] <seb128> pitti: I'm wondering if there is an apport or retracer bug somewhere there
[21:03] <seb128> pitti: those have not been tagged as retracing failed and no comment has been added
[21:45] <pochu> seb128_: hi, do you have time for some sponsorship? I need a libproxy upload for bug 314945 :)
[21:45] <pochu> the package is at http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/libproxy_0.2.3-2~jaunty1.dsc
[21:46] <seb128_> pochu: could you fix the version to be a normal one and not ~jaunty?
[21:48] <pochu> seb128_: sure thing
[21:48] <seb128_> thanks
[21:48] <pochu> seb128_: can I base it in the Debian package? It's basically a fake-sync
[21:49] <pochu> i.e. just add a -0ubuntu2 entry
[21:49] <seb128_> pochu: why do you need to fake sync it rather than real sync?
[21:49] <pochu> seb128_: it's in NEW :(
[21:49] <seb128_> ah ok, yeah sure then
[21:50] <pochu> and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be processed...
[21:50] <pochu> :)
[21:50] <pochu> actually it has to be -0ubuntu4, since we have ubuntu3 in the archive ;)
[21:52] <pochu> seb128_: ok, this should be fine: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/libproxy_0.2.3-0ubuntu4.dsc
[21:55] <pochu> who should I ask for a UI freeze exception? slangasek?
[21:55] <pochu> (it's about one of the "check for notification capabilities" patch)
[21:55] <seb128_> what UI do you want to change?
[21:55] <seb128_> which one?
[21:55] <pochu> liferea
[21:55] <seb128_> libproxy uploaded
[21:56] <pochu> cool, thanks :-)
[21:56] <pochu> that should make slangasek happy
[21:56] <pochu> I could ask for a freeze in exchange for that
[21:56] <seb128_> yeah, you can try asking steve, he will tell you what to do if that's not right ;-)
[21:56] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: ping
[21:56] <pochu> seb128_: ok, thanks!
[22:03] <didrocks> seb128: I almost forget gnome-netstatus :) it's ready when the soft freeze will be ended. bug #340775
[22:03] <seb128> didrocks: thanks
[22:03] <didrocks> you're welcome
[22:04] <seb128> didrocks: you still have pangomm on your todo right? ;-)
[22:05] <didrocks> seb128: when did you give me pangomm ? Looking at my backlog…
[22:05] <seb128> didrocks: I though I did this afternoon
[22:05] <seb128> didrocks: but maybe I meant to and I didn't
[22:06] <didrocks> seb128: not sure. Or maybe I was afk and working :)
[22:06] <didrocks> it happens sometimes ;)
[22:06] <seb128> didrocks: let's try again, do want to update pangomm tomorrow ? ;-)
[22:07] <didrocks> seb128: "Oh yeah, for sure ;)"
[22:07] <seb128> cool
[22:07] <seb128> no hurry with the freeze
[22:07] <seb128> and it's probably a good time to watch some TV or something before going to bed
[22:08] <didrocks> seb128: yes, just before GNOME release :)
[22:08] <seb128> indeed!
[22:08] <didrocks> when exactly is it scheduled, btw?
[22:08] <seb128> be ready for 2.26 soon ;-)
[22:08] <seb128> tarballs due next monday for 2.26
[22:08] <didrocks> ok, I will be available at the end of the day :)
[22:08] <didrocks> and then, everyday :D
[22:08] <didrocks> (on vacations)
[22:09] <seb128> didrocks: oh, cool ;-)
[22:09] <seb128> you took holidays to package GNOME 2.26? ;-)
[22:09] <didrocks> seb128: didn't know it? ;)
[22:09] <didrocks> more seriously, some days away from my job will be great for my health :)
[22:10] <seb128> you should take some days away from the computer too
[22:10] <seb128> sometimes it's good to do a real break ;-)
[22:10] <didrocks> seb128: hum, yeah, but ubuntu-fr + gchildcare project + my book to update + ubuntu lessons to prepare for ORSYS…
[22:11] <didrocks> well, I plan more to take some break just after UDS ;)
[22:11] <seb128> utch
[22:11] <seb128> good luck then ;-)
[22:11] <seb128> yeah, good plan, it will be sunny there and almost summer
[22:11] <seb128> better plan for a break away from computers
[22:11] <didrocks> it's just a question of right scheduler algorithm :)
[22:12] <didrocks> seb128: yes, I will! You too, I imagine?
[22:12] <seb128> I didn't decide yet but I will for sure take some holidays during summer
[22:12] <seb128> after uds, after GUADEC ... not sure yet
[22:14] <didrocks> that should be a good plan :)
[22:14] <didrocks> hum, time to have some rest so ^^
[22:14] <seb128> 'night didrocks
[22:14] <didrocks> thanks, have a good night too!
[22:15] <seb128> thanks!