[01:48] <damjan> I'm playing with upstart, but I can't login on tty1.. any idea how to make a job that just starts a shell on tty1 ?
[01:49] <sadmac> damjan: start on runlevel 5 / exec /bin/bash
[01:49] <sadmac> runlevel 3 rather
[01:50] <damjan> how about "start on startup"?
[01:53] <damjan> I'm getting "main processes ended"
[02:16] <MarcWeber> damjan:  Also add "session leader"
[02:18] <MarcWeber> ar 10 02:13:52 nixos init: sshd pre-start process (25558)
[02:18] <damjan> MarcWeber: still no luck "init: rescue main process ended, respawning"
[02:18] <MarcWeber> seeing this line and ps -p no longer showing any process pid 25558
[02:18] <damjan> rescues is the name of the job (file) I created
[02:19] <MarcWeber> Then this means that the kernel doesn't tell upstart the the pr-start process has finished?
[02:20] <MarcWeber> damjan: Are you sure that upstart has noticed that your file has changed?
[02:20] <damjan> MarcWeber: I'm installing upstart on a non-Upstart system
[02:20] <damjan> in a virtual machine, so I reboot it all the time
[02:21] <MarcWeber> damjan: Which virtual machine?  vserver?
[02:21] <damjan> KVM
[02:21] <MarcWeber> Or qemu..
[02:22] <damjan> I can't even login to the VM with upstart
[02:22] <MarcWeber> http://rafb.net/p/3MfPOS65.html from line 3 on. This works hree
[02:22] <damjan> the stupid thing is, obviously /bin/bash fails to start for some reason but where is the error output ?!?
[02:24] <MarcWeber> Try exec &> /tmp/foo
[02:25] <damjan> well / is not rw at that point :)
[02:25] <damjan> .. I suspect
[02:25] <damjan> .. although I have a script that should do the basic system setup, I don't see it's output so I don't know if it worked ok
[02:26] <MarcWeber> You have do create /dev/console
[02:27] <damjan> yeah, I know that .. hmm .. I think it should exist .. but let me confirm
[02:28] <damjan> .. (just what was the trick to get the real /dev/ beneath udevs tmpfs ?!?)...
[02:28] <MarcWeber> mkdir and mknod use google or kernel Documentation
[02:29] <damjan> ok the trick is "mount --bind / /mnt" now I can see the real /dev/ in /mnt/dev/
[02:29] <damjan> it does have /dev/console null and zero
[02:33] <MarcWeber> I know that upstart has nice goals. However I think it should try to be at least as good as the old init* programs.
[02:36] <damjan> I feel like it's hard to beat the old init* programs, they've been baked to perfection with the years
[02:38] <MarcWeber> It's not that hard. However not beeing able to set oom shouldn't make starting the job fail altogther.
[02:39] <MarcWeber> Maybe there should be a simple /bin/sh test and if upstart doesn't get to know within 1/20s that it has failed assume that it has to use ps -p to check wether a process has died. I know that sucks. But it would work in 99% of all cases which is much better than 0%
[02:43] <MarcWeber> Let's hope that my snapshot I'v taken month ago works fine. It alread did..
[03:23] <MarcWeber> No, didn't help. Maybe I'm just talking nonsense. I'm a little bit disappointed that I still haven't suceeded..
[10:32] <MarcWeber> Keybuk, sadmac Do you think there is any chance  using an alternative less pretty implementation of getting notified when processes (such a spre-start) exit?
[10:33] <Keybuk> how do you mean?
[10:34] <MarcWeber> As I've said. Currently I've the problem on the v-server that the sshd-pre start script gets started..
[10:35] <MarcWeber> init prints the pid to the log. But then nothing happens. I can no longer show that process using ps -p pid
[10:35] <MarcWeber> So it has died (it contained a mkdir -p command only. .)
[10:36] <MarcWeber> init doesn't get notified that the pre-start script has exited so it dosen't start sshd
[10:36] <Keybuk> why doesn't init get notified that the pre-start script has exited?
[10:36] <Keybuk> that sounds like your vserver has broken if it's not sending SIGCHLDs to init
[10:39] <MarcWeber> I can try contacting the support service again and ask wether they can enable it. Don't know yet was is happening. All I now that pre-start doesn't cause the daemon to be started.
[10:39] <MarcWeber> Can I test the SIGCHLDs without being PID 1 somehow?
[10:39] <Keybuk> sure, sigchld is pretty fundamental ;)
[10:39] <Keybuk> did you try init with --debug and capturing the output?
[10:39] <MarcWeber> only -v
[10:39] <MarcWeber> I'll retry
[10:40] <MarcWeber> I've commented out the whole oom_adj part Because I don't have permissions to change them (for whatever reasons).
[10:48] <MarcWeber> line 165 http://rafb.net/p/gdEQ1132.html
[10:48] <MarcWeber> sshd should be started on event manual
[10:50] <MarcWeber> The job and debugging output http://rafb.net/p/sXDAnh65.html
[10:52] <MarcWeber> Would it make sense to add an upstart-test application which could be run on startup once to verify that all required features are availible?
[10:55] <MarcWeber> I could also move the code from the pro-start scripts into the main script..
[11:02] <MarcWeber> Is --debug output sent to the logging daemon as well?
[11:04] <MarcWeber> Keybuk: So does this anything to you?
[11:42] <MarcWeber> Keybuk: Would you mind pingingn me if you're availible for some minutes again?
[13:55] <MarcWeber> Keybuk: You've been right. the strace shows that no SIGCHD is sent. http://rafb.net/p/2VpHyE47.html. I've sent another ticket. Thank you!
[13:57] <Keybuk> MarcWeber: sorry, been having X server crashes all morning
[13:57] <Keybuk> lost your log
[13:57] <MarcWeber> Ah never mind. :-)
[13:57] <Keybuk> I'll never understand why people use vserver
[13:57] <Keybuk> from what I can tell, it doesn't implement a POSIX system very well
[13:57] <MarcWeber> Because they are cheep and except of those troubles they work well..
[13:57] <Keybuk> so it's pot luck whether anything works
[13:58] <Keybuk> surely Xen has killed it by now?
[13:58] <MarcWeber> Keybuk: I can't affort a dedicated server yet :-(
[13:58] <Keybuk> I don't mean virtualisation in general
[13:58] <Keybuk> just the particular implementation that is vserver
[13:58] <MarcWeber> So which kind of hosting service do you recommend ?
[13:58] <Keybuk> http://www.linode.com/ do lovely cheap Xen instances ;)
[13:58] <Keybuk> $19,95/mo for basic
[13:59] <Keybuk> though I don't know how that compares with your vserver host
[13:59] <MarcWeber> Xen is supposed to work?
[13:59] <Keybuk> Xen works brilliantly
[14:00] <MarcWeber> I guess I've found another hosting company which is using xen. So I'll just give up and switch again :)
[14:00] <Keybuk> heh
[14:00] <Keybuk> I don't mean to be mean ;)
[14:00] <Keybuk> but I have been on the receiving end of what feels like dozens of vserver bugs now
[14:00] <Keybuk> (both for upstart and udev)
[14:00] <Keybuk> where it just flat-out does things that the book says it can't
[14:01] <MarcWeber> I can't ping linode < 120ms
[14:01] <MarcWeber> So maybe I should use a hosting service which is closer to Germany.
[14:01] <MarcWeber> Keybuk: I think upstart is great. I think it will take off.
[14:02] <Keybuk> there is one, I can't think what it is
[14:18] <sadmac> Keybuk: liked the talk
[14:18] <MarcWeber> Keybuk: I've just added some debugging hints which have helped me: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Debugging#preview
[14:22] <damjan> echo "Debug Message" >> /tmp/upstart will not succeed until / is remounted RW
[14:27] <MarcWeber> damjan: I've added that note :)
[14:30] <MarcWeber> Keybuk: May I also quote you telling that Xen systems are known to work much better?
[14:38] <keesj> also the naming sounds a little weird echo "Debug Message" >> /tmp/upstart looks like it some sort of magic to make upsart be in debug mode
[14:39] <keesj>  echo "Debug Message" >> /tmp/my_job_debug sounds better to me
[14:39] <keesj> with 0.5.1 you can do initctl log-priority debug so see what is happening inside upstart
[14:40] <keesj> I would also say on what version this wiki page applies to
[14:51] <MarcWeber> I hope that everyone setting up upstart has enough knowledge to know what echo "" >> foo means :-)
[14:53] <MarcWeber> keesj: I've added the log-priority hint as well
[15:52] <ion_> Meh, no waitfd in jaunty’s kernel.
[15:53] <Keybuk> no
[16:33] <sadmac2> ion_: no waitfd in anybody's kernel I hope.
[16:33] <sadmac2> the patch isn't upstream
[16:44] <Keybuk> talking of which
[16:44]  * Keybuk fires the patch gun at lkml
[16:45] <sadmac2> Keybuk: you have a patch for it?
[16:45] <Keybuk> no
[16:45] <Keybuk> you have :p
[16:45] <Keybuk> these are different patches
[16:46] <sadmac2> Keybuk: oic
[16:46] <sadmac2> Keybuk: thought you got bored and just rewrote it for me :)
[16:50] <sadmac2> Keybuk: how will upstart process these "when dbus started" lines? is dbus an argument before the name? some other construct?
[20:40] <ion_> Any news about waitfd? Is it getting into Linus’ tree any time soon?
[20:43] <sadmac2> ion_: I think it needs another round of fixes, and impressions are mixed. It also needs to be better explained.
[20:46] <sadmac2> The next patch had better be good. Alan Cox is going to flip his shit when he sees the thing a third time.
[20:50] <ion_> Heh