[21:20] <Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , i was hoping to get your 2 cents on the email i sent last weekend re: RootSudo page and enabling the root account
[21:22] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I tend to agree with Phil, that it's better that we document it with an appropriate warning than not, because otherwise those interested will just go elsewhere
[21:23] <Rocket2DMn> Ok.  IMHO, it would be ok to do for server documentation, but not for desktop
[21:23] <Rocket2DMn> I seem to have been overruled on this point though :)
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> thanks for the feedback
[21:25] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't feel particularly strongly about it, which is why I've left it to others to debate
[21:25] <Rocket2DMn> I can live with it, but from a security-oriented background, it makes me twitch sometimes
[21:41] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: what are actually the security implications of enabling the root account?
[21:42] <mdke> most linux distros have a root account I think, so it's not the end of the world, surely
[21:43] <mdke> the RootSudo documents a few things, but none of them strike me as screaming huge security  issues
[21:51] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, the world isnt going to end
[21:53] <Rocket2DMn> For one, Ubuntu disables it by default as part of its security model
[21:54] <Rocket2DMn> It favors sudo, which is more configurable, and has to be used in order to make system changes, whereas when logged into root, you dont get prompted or have to type anything extra.  users may not even realize changes they are making
[21:54] <Rocket2DMn> in cases where people enable remote connections, root is often the first account to be targeted
[21:55] <Rocket2DMn> Users often want to sacrifice security for ease of use, which is often though of as a Windows mindset (though thankfully, Windows is changing that)
[21:56] <Rocket2DMn> I think we should be showing users the Ubuntu way of doing things, rather than circumventing the security model for convenience
[21:56] <Rocket2DMn> There are many arguments to be made from both sides, needless to say its still an ongoing debate, which I don't want to drag out :)
[22:01] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I think the page still dooes show users the Ubuntu way of doing things, even on Phil's proposed way
[22:01] <mdke> because it explains the disadvantages quite clearly and gives a disclaimer
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> Yeah, there is a lot of good information on that page.  What worries me most is that people won't read it.
[22:04] <mdke> you kind of have to if you are going to get any information from the page
[22:04] <Rocket2DMn> Users often get frustrated and just jump to what looks like the easiest way to achieve their goals
[22:04] <mdke> also, the warning on the "enabling the root account" could be made a bit more explicit, I think that's Phil's suggestion
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> Yeah I think taht section of the page was a little awkward, I will go through and clean it up a bit
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> which leads me to my next question :)
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> I am planning on holding a meeting with the Beginners Team Wiki focus group next week.  we haven't met in a few months, and you are invited
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> next tuesday at 8pm EDT.  That is midnight Wed UTC
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> I am hoping to get some users to help get community docs ready for Jaunty
[22:08] <Rocket2DMn> Do you have anything specific you would like us to work on, mdke ?
[22:08] <Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki
[22:09] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: nothing that springs to mind. I think the Bluetooth documentation could do with some work if there are people with some bluetooth devices. That way we could use the documents produced to add some system documentation on the subject
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> ill mention that mdke
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> We might try for another summer of documentation like we did last year.  This seems to be a good time to get volunteers as people tend to take time off and students are out of school
[22:14] <Rocket2DMn> I want the Focus Group (FG) members to be working as part of the doc-team/wiki-team.  We are not a separate entity, we just happen to be on another team together which encourages users to get involved in other areas of ubuntu
[22:14] <Rocket2DMn> for that reason i dont setup a mailing list for our FG or have a separate IRC channel for them
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> some FGs do
[22:27] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, I think that would be good. I'd like to use the same mailing list.
[22:27] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'd be happy to add the LP group to ubuntu-doc, if you have one
[22:32] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i dont have a separate LP team for our wiki fg either, i have them join the WikiTeam and ubuntu-doc-students
[22:37] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: that's fine
[22:38] <mdke> would be great if you could lead a summer of documentation in terms of publicity on the fridge and elsewhere
[22:39] <mdke> we should extend it to the whole community, not just the forums, and the key is to ensure that we have healthy and updated task lists for both system docs and wiki docs
[22:39] <mdke> one way to kick it off would be to appeal to people about what they would like to see documented
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, the forums are my primary mode of communication b/c that's where i dedicate most of my time.  This may be of interest to you as well, from our Education Focus Group
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1093535
[22:40] <mdke> yes, I'm not saying you should ignore the forums, just extend the idea
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> proposed topics for sessions - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Proposals
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> there could be one on wiki documentation
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> ah, there sorta is already "How to use the Ubuntu Wiki"
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> its not just for BT or forums, its for anybody, both teachers and students
[22:41] <mdke> sure
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> i believe matthew helmke blogged about it, should be on planet
[22:42] <mdke> I saw the post from bodhi.zazen
[22:42] <mdke> (on the planet)
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> ah yeah i guess they both did
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> as much fun as it would be to try and organize users from all over, i have to focus my efforts a little in the interest of time
[22:43] <mdke> ok, thats fine.
[22:43] <Rocket2DMn> the BT has some really cool connections in the community, so we do manage to reach others as well
[22:43] <mdke> it won't take any effort to take what you are doing and get it covered on the fridge
[22:43] <mdke> someone else can do it :)
[22:43] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, it can go in the fridge, and in uwn
[22:44] <mdke> that's all I had in mind
[22:44]  * Rocket2DMn write stuff down
[22:45] <mdke> the key is just to ensure that when you post something, you don't limit participation in any way or make it seem like only members of the forum team can help - that way we will automatically get contribution from all over
[22:45] <mdke> ok, i have to go now, cya later
[22:45] <Rocket2DMn> I think one of the easiest things to have people do is work on pages that already exist, so this is what I like to focus on.  However, if people have new topics, that is cool, too.  I forgot who I was talking to, but I tihnk they metnioned bluetooth as well
[22:45] <Rocket2DMn> peace mdke
[22:45] <LjL> i might be mistaken, but wasn't there (at least as a work in progress) a hardware support list in the form of a database somewhere?
[22:45] <LjL> as in, not the one on the wiki
[22:46] <Rocket2DMn> LjL, i believe there are some universal ones for linux, but most ive seen specifically for Ubuntu have not lasted
[22:47] <LjL> no, i was thinking Ubuntu specific. i vaguely recall hearing about that during the Open Week, or some meeting
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/ ?
[22:48] <LjL> Rocket2DMn: possibly that. but probably i was thinking http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/
[22:48] <LjL> the latter at least seems something official.
[22:48] <Rocket2DMn> ah, i didnt know about that
[22:49] <Rocket2DMn> so where are the directions on how to use that?
[22:49] <Rocket2DMn> is that just from System->Administration->Hardware Testing?
[22:49] <LjL> Rocket2DMn: not sure. but i think it's really just the output from the, uh what's it called, the Reporting tool
[22:49] <LjL> yes i do think so
[22:50] <LjL> how good is ubuntuchl anyway?
[22:50] <LjL> hcl even
[22:50] <Rocket2DMn> i have no idea
[22:51] <LjL> the wiki is sometimes a bit... uh, contradictory and confusing, it looks like
[22:51] <LjL> which is not surprising when it comes to lists of hardware
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, the stuff on the wiki re: specific hardware, cant be trusted