[07:28] <mpt> MacSlow, did you happen to get a screenshot of the kerneloops fallback alert with your actions fix?
[07:42] <pitti> Good morning
[07:42] <didrocks> good morning o/
[07:44] <MacSlow> mpt, already fixed upstrem
[07:44] <MacSlow> mpt, pitti got our notify-osd release for that yesterday
[07:45] <MacSlow> mpt, I still need to do the new/proper dialog for kerneloops-applet
[07:45] <mpt> MacSlow, yes, I saw that you fixed the bug, thanks, I was just wanting to see what it looked like
[07:45] <MacSlow> mpt, there's time allocated for such work today
[07:45] <mpt> ok, I'll chat with you about it this afternoon
[07:46] <MacSlow> mpt, sure
[08:05] <mvo> asac: hm, I get the "zero signal strengh" icon now for unmanaged devices as well. is that known?
[08:06] <mvo> asac: IIRC it used to show something different for those (my network is fine, its just not managed by NM)
[08:08] <pitti> mvo, asac: zero sig strength> I get the same, when I'm not connected to any wifi
[08:08] <didrocks> mvo: yep, cf -devel
[08:08] <didrocks> (the ML)
[08:12] <mvo> pitti: I learned yesterday it is a design desicion to show that when no connection is there
[08:12] <pitti> okay
[08:13] <mvo> I'm just curious about the unmanaged devices case
[08:15] <davmor2> pitti: morning I've got a query about freesoftware only install jockey offered to install the nvidia binary should it?
[08:15] <pitti> davmor2: no, it's not supposed to
[08:15] <pitti> davmor2: could you please do "ubuntu-bug jockey-gtk" and then add your /etc/apt/sources.list?
[08:16] <pitti> davmor2: please use ubuntu-bug, that will collect log files, etc.
[08:16] <davmor2> I didn't think it had before which is why it through me.
[08:16] <pitti> if you don't have restricted in your apt sources, it shouldn't offer it indeed
[08:16] <davmor2> pitti: I need to re-do the Ubuntu tests due to re-spin so I'll check it out again then for you
[08:16] <pitti> davmor2: many thank!
[08:16] <pitti> s
[08:21] <didrocks> mvo & pitti : the full thread about this change is there: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-March/007345.html
[08:23] <seb128> didrocks: what change?
[08:27] <didrocks> seb128: the 0-strength wifi icon for disconnected network
[08:27] <seb128> ah, discussing that again
[08:28] <seb128> we discussed it yesterday afternoon on this channel already ;-)
[08:29] <seb128> hey didrocks mvo pitti btw ;-)
[08:29]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:29] <didrocks> seb128: mvo & pitti seemed to not be aware of that or is that my english is getting so bad? ;)
[08:29]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[08:29] <didrocks> hey seb128 btw ;)
[08:30] <pitti> seb128: with the freeze still being on, I declare today as an apport day
[08:30] <pitti> didrocks: I just missed it, probably
[08:30] <seb128> that's basically the design team which decided that disconnected == no signal
[08:30] <pitti> well, I hope I only get that icon if a wifi is available
[08:30] <seb128> which suboptimal if you ask me
[08:30] <pitti> then it makes sense
[08:30] <pitti> (to me, anyway)
[08:30] <didrocks> seb128: we agree so :)
[08:30] <didrocks> pitti: no
[08:30] <seb128> but macOS does it apparently and that's a good justification for most changes ...
[08:31] <pitti> before, I couldn't tell whether there's wifi available and I'm not connected, or whether there's no wifi at all
[08:31] <pitti> but *shrug*
[08:31] <didrocks> pitti: from the ML discussion, it seems not. If you have no wifi card even, you have that icon :/
[08:31] <pitti> too small a detail for me to argue about..
[08:31] <seb128> pitti: my first reaction was "urg, my AP is broken"
[08:31] <pitti> didrocks: that sounds wrong
[08:31] <didrocks> seb128: so do I :/
[08:31] <seb128> pitti: ie, "I'm connected but get pretty bad signal but I'm sitting some meters away so it must be broken"
[08:31] <pitti> didrocks: and no, MacOS does *not* show a wifi symbol if you don't have a wifi card
[08:32] <pitti> at least not the one from 2004, which I had on my old ibook
[08:32] <pitti> seb128: it could really be a different icon..
[08:32] <seb128> not only it could but it should ;-)
[08:32] <seb128> ok, so ffmpeg is crash land but not for me, shrug
[08:33] <seb128> can somebody try playing a video for me?
[08:33] <pitti> which one?
[08:33] <seb128> bug #330165
[08:33] <pitti> with my wife being in Italy, I watched a lot of videos this week :)
[08:33] <seb128> the description has instructions
[08:34] <seb128> pitti: the bug seems to be with flv and mp4 mostly
[08:34] <pitti> flv, that's youtube, isn't it?
[08:35]  * pitti tries http://www.jhepple.com/SampleMovies/niceday.wmv
[08:35] <pitti> which was said to crash totem
[08:35] <seb128> pitti: yeah
[08:35] <didrocks> pitti: we totally agree. It seems counter-intuitive. But they are experts and can't argue against that from my user/dev point of view :)
[08:35] <didrocks> we'll see user's reaction (and bad one), I'm afraid :/
[08:35] <didrocks> ho, It wasn't intended to troll, just to point you to the discussion thread at the beginning :)
[08:36] <pitti> seb128: hm, it plays and doesn't crash, but it's more like a dia show
[08:37] <seb128> bug #341068 has an example too
[08:37] <pitti> seb128: erm, "slide show", I mean
[08:37] <huats> morning everyone
[08:37] <seb128> lut huats
[08:37] <huats> hello seb128 and pitti
[08:37] <mvo> seb128: I just got a 0-zero symbol for unmanaged devices as well, this is why I brought it up again. I was wondering if that was intentional as well
[08:37] <tjaalton> huats: how's the anjuta update doing?-)
[08:38] <huats> tjaalton: it is on his way
[08:38] <huats> I was really busy lately
[08:38] <tjaalton> ok
[08:38] <huats> but I hope to finish it today
[08:38] <tjaalton> great
[08:38] <huats> tjaalton: I hope I'll be able to talk to the debian maintainer today... so that we can take some common decisions...
[08:38] <didrocks> hello huats
[08:39] <huats> hello didrocks
[08:39] <seb128> pitti: that is driving me crazy, lot of users have crashes they can trigger easily on those files but I don't get the bugs on my installs
[08:40] <pitti> hm, .flv works just fine here
[08:40] <pitti> oh, hang on, that was in firefox
[08:40]  * pitti searches for a youtube downloader
[08:40] <seb128> pitti: the flv is attached to the bug
[08:44] <pitti> seb128: I don't see it
[08:44] <seb128> pitti: what about http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/download/video/6205/talk/481?
[08:44] <seb128> pitti: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23766462/Romeo_-_Basement_Jaxx.flv on the bug
[08:44] <pitti> I installed youtube download plugin and got http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-B7_7LA02A
[08:44] <pitti> plays fine
[08:44] <seb128> comment #7
[08:44] <seb128> ok, you don't get those issues either than
[08:44] <seb128> *shrug*
[08:45] <pitti> seb128: I don't think I'm looking at the same bug than you then; I'm on 330165
[08:45] <seb128> pitti: I was speaking about #341068
[08:45] <seb128> which is another example
[08:45] <seb128> but people who get the issue seem to get it on any of those example
[08:46] <seb128> could be specific to some hardware or something
[08:46] <seb128> well, upstream disabled the vdpau decoder in svn
[08:46] <seb128> let's see if that makes a difference for those who have the bug
[08:46] <pitti> seb128: romeo plays; do I need to watch the entire one?
[08:46] <seb128> pitti: no, it crash directly for them, thanks
[08:47] <seb128> you are in the same case that I am, works fine for you too
[08:47] <davmor2> pitti: is this in totem
[08:47] <pitti> davmor2: yes, standard totem-gstreamer
[08:47] <pitti> seb128: the TED talk works fine as well
[08:47] <seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg/+bug/332860 has mp4 and flv examples
[08:47] <seb128> which work fine for me too
[08:47] <pitti> seb128: perhaps we have a different set of codecs installed than them?
[08:48] <pitti> seb128: the codec packages overlap
[08:48] <seb128> pitti: I went though 60 bugs or something and none of the example are crashing for me *shrug*
[08:48] <pitti> seb128: comparing dpkg -l '*gstreamer*'
[08:48] <pitti> might reveal something?
[08:48] <seb128> pitti: I did try to uninstall the universe code totem reinstall those with the codec install thing
[08:48] <seb128> and still no bug
[08:48] <davmor2> pitti: the video for me would crash just after it had finished.  Type in canon and select the guitar one at the top let it run all the way through and see if it crashes :)
[08:48] <seb128> and got dpkg -l lists form users
[08:48] <pitti> http://pastebin.com/f4de99573 <- mine
[08:48] <seb128> from
[08:51] <seb128> pitti: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23755515/dpkg_l_gst.txt
[08:51] <seb128> pitti: from bug #330165
[08:51] <seb128> pitti: not much difference
[08:54] <seb128> pitti: thanks for trying, don't bother too much I spent yesterday triaging those bugs, there is quite some responsive users I will try to get some to open upstream bugs
[08:54] <seb128> pitti: apport bug days -> good
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: well, not apport bugs
[08:54] <seb128> pitti: please fix the autoduplication to handle master being a duplicate again
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: (1) write launchpad crashdb test suite
[08:54] <seb128> pitti: that's driving me crazy too
[08:54] <pitti> (2) fix that double-duplicate bug
[08:55] <pitti> (3) if there's still time, merge/test the launchpadlib branch
[08:55] <pitti> but this thing really needs a test suite
[08:55] <pitti> LP behaviour is changing too often
[08:55] <seb128> well, once you use launchpadlib things should be stable no?
[08:56] <pitti> right
[08:56] <pitti> but you never know..
[08:56] <pitti> it's also better for reproducing errors and making sure that bug fixes don't regress other things
[08:56] <pitti> I'm sure that the dup-of-a-dup thing worked some day
[08:57] <seb128> it worked until recently
[08:57] <pitti> and I still need to fix the dup db consolidation
[08:57] <seb128> we rely on that a lot, I closed at least 15 duplicates myself yesterday due to it not working
[08:57] <seb128> all the notify-osd duplicates are let open for example
[08:57] <seb128> I just closed yet an another one
[08:59] <crevette> good morning
[08:59] <seb128> lut crevette
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: btw, you can use dupdb-admin changeid <oldmasterbug> <newmasterbug>
[09:05] <pitti> seb128: this will change the master bug number
[09:05] <seb128> pitti: ah, good to know, thanks
[09:05] <pitti> seb128: there's also "dump"
[09:08] <seb128> what was the same again of that tools which allowed to search through launchpad bugs using the command line?
[09:09] <pitti> something from bughelper?
[09:09] <pitti> sorry, I never really used that
[09:09] <seb128> bughelper thanks
[09:09] <pitti> ah :)
[09:09] <seb128> launchpad search sucks so much
[09:09] <seb128> that's a shame
[09:09]  * pitti uses site:bugs.launchpad.net with google
[09:12] <asac> mvo: pitti: fact is that human theme now has 00_signal for nm-no-connection. thats basically it. so everywhere where we had "nm-no-connection" before in NM we see zero signal strength now.
[09:13] <pitti> asac: that sounds wrong..
[09:13] <asac> pitti: dont tell me
[09:13] <asac> tell dxteam
[09:13] <asac> or even dux
[09:13] <pitti> mpt: using an empty wifi signal to tell people that they don't have a connection sounds just plain wrong to me
[09:13] <asac> pitti: look at the thread in devel-discuss
[09:13] <pitti> asac: yeah, I should do that
[09:14] <asac> pitti: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-March/007345.html
[09:15] <asac> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-March/007352.html
[09:15] <asac> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-March/007356.html
[09:15] <asac> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-March/007359.html
[09:16] <asac> last one was my suggestion.
[09:16] <mpt> pitti, I agree
[09:17] <pitti> mpt: I do think it makes sense to tell apart the "wifi available, but none connected", and "no network connetion at all available" cases
[09:18] <mpt> yep
[09:18] <pitti> nice
[09:18] <asac> also ... even if you only have wifi, no signal means for me: "out of range" rather than "APs available, you can click here to connect"
[09:18] <pitti> so if you agree as well, why did we do that change then?
[09:18] <asac> mat says its logical
[09:19] <pitti> yes, if I don't have a wifi card, it's absolutely logical to display a signal strength
[09:19] <davmor2> pitti: I just tried it and it works again Yay :)
[09:19] <pitti> davmor2: jockey or video playback?
[09:19] <davmor2> totem playing canon that is :)
[09:19] <asac> pitti: marks point is that nowadays wired doesnt matter
[09:20] <pitti> huh?
[09:20] <asac> everybody goes for wifi or broadband
[09:20] <pitti> ok, let me rip out my ethernet cable and disconnect then
[09:20] <mpt> pitti, I don't know
[09:20] <asac> :)
[09:21] <seb128> I'm using wired connection too right now, should I stop by design team decision? ;-)
[09:22] <pitti> ok, sarcasm aside, it actually works as it should with wired
[09:22] <pitti> I have the two computers, and no signal strength indicator
[09:23] <seb128> right
[09:23] <seb128> the "weird" case is non connected wireless
[09:23] <pitti> mt isn't online right now, but once he does, we should negotiate a compromise with him
[09:23] <seb128> which makes you think you are connected but your accesspoint is broken
[09:23] <pitti> seb128: well, I could even live with that *if* there is wifi available at all
[09:23] <didrocks> seb128: +1
[09:23] <seb128> I find it *very* confusing
[09:23] <pitti> but if you don't even *have* a wifi/3g adapter, it's just plain wrong
[09:23] <seb128> I checked my router first thing
[09:24] <asac> pitti: only compromise is a red cross
[09:24] <asac> pitti: every other compromise requires code
[09:24] <seb128> "why should I be connected and get no signal"
[09:24] <pitti> asac: red cross?
[09:24] <seb128> pitti: they sort of agreed that add a red cross over the 0 signal icon would be ok
[09:24] <asac> pitti: yeah. at least there should be a red-cross over the no-signal icon to show that you are disconnected
[09:24] <pitti> (wasn't that meant to make the icon to be recognized _easier_?)
[09:24] <pitti> asac: ah
[09:24] <asac> pitti: i mean even if i have wireless, its completely confusing to see empty signal for me
[09:24] <seb128> add -> adding
[09:25] <pitti> asac: +1
[09:26] <asac> as i said in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-March/007359.html ... imo we should go back and do our homework and come up with something more innnovative. if we find something more innovative we should skip this step
[09:26] <mvo> for the record: I find it confusing as well and think people will assume our n-m is broken if it shows a signal strengh icon on non-wifi hardware
[09:27] <asac> even if that means we dont change anything this cycle
[09:34] <seb128> mvo: if they think nm is broken that's not too bad ;-)
[09:35] <seb128> mvo: I though my accesspoint was broken ;-)
[10:00] <mpt> pitti, seb128, asac, we've just discussed this in the sprint and I've followed up on ubuntu-devel-discuss@
[10:01] <pitti> mpt: thanks!
[10:01] <mpt> (short version: we'll have another go at designing the wireless-off icon)
[10:01] <seb128> mpt: thanks!
[10:10] <asac> mpt: great.
[10:14] <mvo> thanks mpt
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: ok, those ffmpeg crash are there only when using libavcodec52-unstripped
[10:17] <pitti> aah
[10:17] <seb128> ie the multiverse build
[10:18] <seb128> thanks to siretart who give me the hint to try that
[10:36] <asac> mvo: you said once that i can cleanup my apt packages db (so it gets faster again) ... any hints?
[10:41] <mvo> asac: system-cleaner can do that now for you, sudo dpkg --forget-old-unavail and then sudo dpkg --clear-avail
[10:45] <seb128> mvo:  system-cleaner is not deprecated?
[10:45] <seb128> mvo: it got cleaned on my boxes
[10:45] <didrocks> mpt: thanks for the change proposal on the icon :)
[10:47] <mpt> didrocks, thank kwwii and mat_t for getting it sorted out under pressure :-)
[10:52] <asac> mvo: trying
[10:53] <davmor2> guys not sure if this is a bug or what but I just noticed that on my laptop on login I get no notify-osd for the wifi connection.  However if I click on it again to make it reconnect I do.  Is this a bug is it just that notify-osd has kicked in at that point?
[10:54] <mvo> seb128: oh? interessting - by autoclean ?
[10:55] <seb128> mvo: rather by the dist-upgrader in update-manager I think
[10:55] <seb128> mvo: and by system-cleaner itself on an another box I think which is ironic ;-)
[10:57] <mvo> haha
[10:57] <mvo> indeed :)
[10:58] <seb128> mvo: wasn't that supposed to be available in update manager or something?
[10:58] <seb128> I didn't follow the details
[11:01] <mvo> yes, but it was decided to keep it as a seperate one too
[11:06] <asac> hmm after reboot my nfs authentication fails e.g. no mount
[11:11] <seb128> mvo: how do you access to the update-manager copy?
[11:12] <mvo> seb128: for computer-janitor? the core is now merged into u-m
[11:12] <seb128> mvo: right, how do you get that to trigger?
[11:12] <seb128> mvo: ie I had 15 linux versions installed recently
[11:12] <seb128> mvo: and I didn't find what to do to clean those
[11:12] <seb128> that's why I ran the deprecated system-cleaner
[11:12] <seb128> which cleaned itself while cleaning those ;-)
[11:13] <mvo> the update-manager one is only run after a release upgrade, there is no other way to trigger it
[11:13] <seb128> hum ok
[11:13] <mvo> it depends on some infomration that is gathered during the upgrade (like what is obsolete before and after sources.list rewrite)
[11:13] <mvo> this is why the system-cleaner is still there :)
[11:46] <davmor2> pitti: bug 341647 I just check the source.list and restricted doesn't seem to be there.  Do you want me to try and install the nvidia driver (which I haven't yet)?
[11:48] <pitti> davmor2: is it offering it?
[11:48] <pitti> davmor2: no need to try
[11:48] <pitti> davmor2: just start jockey, check if it's there
[11:48] <pitti> davmor2: and if so, close it, and send "ubuntu-bug jockey-gtk"
[11:49] <pitti> davmor2: "no need to try" -> "no need to install"
[11:49] <davmor2> pitti: yes it's offered.  Jockey auto starts and says there are drivers available
[11:49] <pitti> davmor2: you found a bug then
[11:49] <davmor2> the bug above was created with ubuntu-bug
[11:51] <pitti> davmor2: cool, thanks!
[11:54] <pitti> davmor2: hm, are you still in that system?
[11:54] <pitti> davmor2: would you mind trying to install it?
[11:55] <pitti> davmor2: I can't reproduce bug 335567
[11:55] <pitti> I don't have an nvidia card
[11:55] <pitti> I tried to "fake" it, but it doesn't crash
[11:57] <asac> pitti: are you in the release team?
[11:58] <asac> pitti: i guess so. are the CDs done? i would like to upload the icon fix for the signal thing ... bug 341638
[11:58] <pitti> asac: no, we are still in freeze
[11:58] <asac> pitti: e.g. kwwii provided the update
[11:58] <pitti> slangasek will announce the un-freeze
[11:58] <asac> pitti: yeah. but couldnt we upload and so in case new CDs need to be made it would just pick this change as a ride along?
[11:58] <asac> ok
[11:58] <pitti> no, sorry
[11:58] <asac> i will wait then
[12:06] <davmor2> pitti: no probs
[12:08] <davmor2> pitti: I had it still earlier on desktop install but on this one it's not downloading it.  Give me half an hour I need to test manual install
[12:09] <pitti> davmor2: maybe because it didn't run apt-get update once?
[12:09] <davmor2> pitti: by the way on that one it does install the driver it just doesn't tell you it has :)
[12:09] <pitti> davmor2: btw, offering you the driver if apt-get update didn't fire before is the very same bug
[12:15] <davmor2> pitti: so should jockey not trigger an update before it starts trying to download?
[12:15] <pitti> davmor2: I'd rather not have that
[12:15] <pitti> davmor2: instead I want jockey to only fire after there are packages available
[12:16] <pitti> which will help for both situations
[12:16] <pitti> (apt-get update not done, and restricted not available)
[12:16] <davmor2> pitti: makes sense
[12:54] <davmor2> pitti: Right up and running about to test now
[12:56] <davmor2> and crash
[12:59] <davmor2> pitti: it hits 100% on the download and install then the bar swings left and right and it's at that point that the crash icon appears
[13:05] <davmor2> pitti: Anything else before I move on?
[13:05] <pitti> davmor2: which crash do you get, the IOError 19?
[13:06] <davmor2> pitti: Just double checking
[13:06] <davmor2> pitti: Yes
[13:06] <pitti> ah!
[13:07] <pitti> davmor2: if you try to disable the driver and enable it again. does it happen again?
[13:07] <pitti> davmor2: I'm looking for someone who can reproduce that without much effort
[13:07] <pitti> davmor2: the log isn't sufficient, I need an strace of the backend
[13:07] <pitti> and I just can't reproduce it without a real nvidia card, it seems :(
[13:07] <davmor2> pitti:  Uninstalling now
[13:08] <davmor2> re-installing
[13:08] <davmor2> pitti: No crash the second time
[13:10] <pitti> hum
[13:10] <pitti> davmor2: could you try this:
[13:10] <pitti> - close jockey
[13:10] <pitti> - sudo killall jockey-backend
[13:10] <pitti> - enable driver in jockey
[13:10] <pitti> oh, please uninstall the driver before
[13:10] <pitti> davmor2: do you have a little time for debugging this?
[13:11] <pitti> davmor2: hang on, let me reprase
[13:11] <pitti> - uninstall driver
[13:11] <pitti> - close jocokey
[13:11] <pitti> - sudo killall jockey-backend
[13:11] <pitti> - start jockey
[13:11] <pitti> - sudo strace -f -o /tmp/jockey.trace -p `pidof jockey-backend`
[13:12] <pitti> - enable driver
[13:12] <davmor2> pitti: Let me get my isotesting done for now.  I'll get back to you.  Also I'll partimage the drive after a fresh install then if all else fails I can always drop it back on :)
[13:12] <pitti> if it crashes, please attach /tmp/jockey.trace to bug 335567
[13:12] <pitti> davmor2: ah, right
[13:12] <pitti> davmor2: I'll attach those instructions to the bug
[13:12] <davmor2> thanks :)
[13:12] <pitti> davmor2: If you're going to do another install anyway, maybe you can attach strace to jockey-backend the next time right away after a fresh install?
[13:13] <pitti> davmor2: thanks, dude, you rock
[13:13] <davmor2> no probs
[13:13] <kenvandine_wk> morning rickspencer3
[13:16] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: did you see my comments on that bug about the indicator script?
[13:17] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: i tried every scenario i could think of... one time it randomly ended up to the right of the help icon instead of to the left of the notification area
[13:18] <pitti> davmor2: pidof jockey-backend doesn't work; I added the steps to bug 335567
[13:18] <pitti> hey kenvandine_wk
[13:19] <mvo> kenvandine_wk: I read it. do oyu have the gconf dumb of this time? I'm currently disussing it with ted and seb how to bring it to the users
[13:20] <mvo> kenvandine_wk: the idea of ted was to run it automatically once on login on the grouds that it just adds something
[13:20] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: i agree with ted
[13:20] <mvo> I'm not sure about that, or if we should rather have a notice and let the user decide (but the user can alays remove it)
[13:20] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: i should have been dumping gconf :/
[13:20] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: i can do it a bunch more times
[13:20] <kenvandine_wk> might happen again
[13:21] <kenvandine_wk> hey pitti
[13:21] <mvo> kenvandine_wk: thanks, we can watch bugreport I guess
[13:21] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[13:21] <kenvandine_wk> i'll do it
[13:23] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: just dump /apps/panel ?
[13:24] <mvo> kenvandine_wk: yeah, that should be good
[13:25] <mvo> kenvandine_wk: see /msg :)
[13:34] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: i  just attached a gconf dump where it was placed to the left of the menu
[13:34] <mvo> thanks
[13:34]  * mvo checks
[13:34] <mvo> a screenshot too please ? I have a bad imagination
[13:34] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: it succeeded 7 times before that happened
[13:34] <kenvandine_wk> sure
[13:35] <kenvandine_wk> mvo: attached
[13:37] <mvo> always with the same panel layout?
[13:37] <kenvandine_wk> yeah
[13:37] <mvo> when you run "killall gnome-panel" on the broken one
[13:37] <mvo> is it still broken after the restart?
[13:37]  * kenvandine_wk tries
[13:37] <kenvandine_wk> yeah
[13:37] <rickspencer3> pitti: ArneGoetje: asac: bryce_: calc: seb128: kenvandine_wk: it looks like the sponsoring deadline for Karmic UDS is in two days
[13:38] <rickspencer3> !
[13:38] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: that is for sponsoring community folks, right?
[13:38] <seb128> rickspencer3: what? did we get any email about inviting people yet?
[13:38] <kenvandine_wk> is there anything i should do there?
[13:38] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: yes
[13:38]  * kenvandine_wk didn't know :)
[13:38] <mvo> seb128: it was probably on a blog somewhere :P
[13:39] <asac> rickspencer3: err. you mean for upstream folks?
[13:39] <rickspencer3> seb128: kenvandine_wk: I think it was blogged and such .
[13:39]  * kenvandine_wk blames jono
[13:39] <rickspencer3> asac: yes ... anyone we want to sponsor
[13:39] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: so do we just suggest one person?
[13:39] <seb128> the community team people live in an another world
[13:40] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: unfortunately, I am not familiar with this part of the process, so I will have to rely on you guys
[13:40] <asac> rickspencer3: thought the ubuntu deadline was like last week
[13:40] <seb128> first don't expect we read all the blog posts, etc
[13:40] <kenvandine_wk> hehe...
[13:40] <seb128> and usually we have 2 sorts of people
[13:40] <seb128> - community people can apply
[13:40] <rickspencer3> I just got a mail that the "deadline is looming" and it's the 14th
[13:40] <seb128> - and we can make list of people we want to invite
[13:40] <seb128> I was waiting for an email about the second category
[13:40] <rickspencer3> here's the link:
[13:40] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/UDS/Karmic/Sponsorship
[13:41] <rickspencer3> (sorry folks, it's internal canonical ;) )
[13:41] <seb128> jcastro: dude, do you know about that?
[13:41] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: no page there
[13:41] <seb128> I already had complain about uds organization previous cycle
[13:41] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[13:42] <seb128> they are trying hard to make sure we don't invite upstream people or what ;-)
[13:42] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: jcastro isn't on IM... so i guess not around
[13:42] <rickspencer3> let's not start throwing our friends under buses!
[13:42] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: right, he will read that when he's around
[13:42] <rickspencer3> we still have a couple of days :)
[13:42] <seb128> rickspencer3: right, we just had the same issue previous cycle so that would be nice if they could consider starting using proper media to reach people who don't read blogs every day
[13:43] <kenvandine_wk> should it be upstream folks and community developers?
[13:47] <asac> rickspencer3: i dont like how this was announced this time. last time there was at least a mail i think
[13:47] <asac> rickspencer3: yesterday night i wondered about exactly this ;)
[13:50] <davmor2> pitti: Right I'm going to try this strace for you now :)
[13:58] <davmor2> aborted core-dumped at 60% hmmm
[13:59] <rickspencer3> asac: seb128: ok, it looks like I got a mail about UDS sponsorship last week, and didn't pass it on :(
[13:59] <rickspencer3> my bad
[14:00] <seb128> rickspencer3: ok, no problem, we still have time to make the list so it's all good ;-)
[14:03] <asac> rickspencer3: can you forward the mail so we know how the nomination works? e.g. where to send the email and so on?
[14:03] <rickspencer3> asac: all the mail says is that the deadline is 14th, and to go to that page
[14:03] <rickspencer3> (which isn't there apparantly)
[14:03] <asac> hehe
[14:03] <rickspencer3> I'll ask Jono to come and help
[14:03] <asac> ok
[14:04] <rickspencer3> he's not up yet though
[14:04] <rickspencer3> (but we have a meeting in an hour, so I'll talk to him soon)
[14:05] <davmor2> pitti: the strace just keeps going
[14:06] <seb128> rickspencer3: https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/UDS/Karmic/Sponsorships
[14:07] <seb128> rickspencer3: you dropped a char when copying or he did in the email
[14:07] <rickspencer3> seb128: tx
[14:08] <rickspencer3> seb128: btw, I'm cranking tunes on Jamendo right now
[14:08] <rickspencer3> :)
[14:08] <seb128> cool ;-)
[14:08] <pitti> davmor2: yeah, I expect the file will grow pretty large
[14:08] <davmor2> pitti: 84.6 meg
[14:09] <pitti> davmor2: wow
[14:09] <pitti> davmor2: I guess cutting off the last 500 KB should be enough
[14:09] <pitti> davmor2: maybe pastebin the tail of it once it crashed
[14:09] <rickspencer3> seb128: perhaps "access to 118,131" totally free songs should be communicated as a benefit of Ubuntu ")
[14:09] <davmor2> I thought it was taking a while to upload to lp
[14:12] <seb128> rickspencer3: right and we could calculate how many years of free music listening that is ;-)
[14:17] <davmor2> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/130173/  let me know if you need more than that
[14:24] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: jamendo is pretty nice... i just need a banshee plugin for it :)
[14:25]  * rickspencer3 whacks kenvandine_wk
[14:26] <davmor2> kenvandine_wk: I think that magnatune is better
[14:27] <kenvandine_wk> last i tried i couldn't get that to work
[14:29] <davmor2> kenvandine_wk: Works fine in Rhythmbox must be a banshee flaw
[14:29] <kenvandine> davmor2: i was trying in rhythmbox :)
[14:29] <kenvandine> i don't think there is a banshee plugin for that either
[14:30] <davmor2> kenvandine yes there is they are in by default
[14:30] <davmor2> iirc
[14:31] <seb128> mvo: is the codec install thing supposed to activate universe by default if the users want? ie ask if it should be used?
[14:31] <mvo> seb128: no, it does not support that anymore
[14:31] <seb128> mvo: :-(((
[14:31] <seb128> mvo: it's useless basically now then
[14:32] <seb128> mvo: any reason?
[14:32] <seb128> things we can install we do install
[14:32] <seb128> things we can't install ie mp3 or mpeg decodes will not be handled
[14:32] <kenvandine> davmor2: not that i can see
[14:32] <seb128> decoders
[14:33] <davmor2> kenvandine hang on installing now
[14:37] <mvo> seb128: we enale universe and multiverse by default, so by default it work just fine (or am I missing something)
[14:38] <mvo> seb128: that was discussed during the uds session, people said its not important because we enable universe and multiverse by default
[14:38] <seb128> mvo: I'm trying an alpha6 image and only main and restricted are enabled
[14:38] <mvo> on the live cd?
[14:38] <seb128> mvo: well not on the CD apparently
[14:38] <mvo> that is a known bug
[14:38] <seb128> mvo: ok, good
[14:38] <mvo> (or feature, not sure)
[14:38] <seb128> I'm just doing alpha6 testing
[14:39] <seb128> and I wanted to try playing some videos
[14:39] <seb128> but I go no universe and totem complain about having no codec to install
[14:39] <seb128> go -> got
[14:39] <seb128> mvo: thanks, so it's a CD corner case ;-)
[14:42] <davmor2> kenvandine: oh well you'll just have to try the rhythmbox version sorry they dropped it :)
[14:42] <seb128> mvo: ok, that works fine once universe enabled
[14:42] <mvo> thanks seb128
[14:43] <seb128> mvo: thanks to you and sorry about the false alarm there, I didn't realize the CD sources were differents than the install ones
[14:43] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: I just assigned you bug 131679
[14:43] <kenvandine_wk> ok
[14:44] <rickspencer3> but it's in compiz, so perhaps mvo can help figure out what to do with it if needed?
[14:45] <kenvandine_wk> sure... i will ping him if i need to
[14:45]  * kenvandine_wk wished he could get compiz to work in virtualbox :)
[14:45] <kenvandine_wk> easier than crashing your desktop
[14:46] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: does kvm not work on your laptop?
[14:46] <kenvandine_wk> it does
[14:47] <kenvandine_wk> but  you can't do compiz there either
[14:47] <kenvandine_wk> i am trying out virtualbox...
[14:47] <kenvandine_wk> but have been using kvm for ages now
[14:47] <rickspencer3> for some reason I thought kvm could access your video hardware
[14:47] <rickspencer3> guess not
[14:47] <kenvandine_wk> no
[14:47] <kenvandine_wk> well
[14:47] <kenvandine_wk> i think they are workign on that
[14:48] <rickspencer3> did you get virtual box extensions working in Jaunty?
[14:49] <kenvandine_wk> no
[14:50] <kenvandine_wk> it wants to downgrade xorg
[14:50] <kenvandine_wk> so i guess that stuff needs to be rebuilt
[14:50] <kenvandine_wk> rickspencer3: weird thing is it will only do 800x600 with a jaunty guest
[14:50] <kenvandine_wk> but i can do any resolution i want with a foresight guest
[14:50] <kenvandine_wk> which is very strange
[14:51] <kenvandine_wk> if i specify i higher mode it just blows up
[14:51]  * kenvandine_wk will live with 800x600 and try to work on that tonight :)
[14:51] <rickspencer3> kenvandine_wk: if you get it to work for alpha-6, that would make a great blog post
[14:51] <mvo> rickspencer3, kenvandine_wkon the phone right now, but happy to talk about it afterwards
[14:51] <mvo> (the compiz bug)
[14:55]  * kenvandine_wk tries to rebuild the guest extenstions for virtualbox for fun
[15:00] <davmor2> pitti: Was that strace info enough?  If you want I can drop the whole file on my server for you.  Need to keep testing though.
[15:01] <pitti> davmor2: looking
[15:02] <pitti> davmor2: I don't see it on the bug report?
[15:02] <pitti> davmor2: oh, missed your ping, sorry
[15:02] <pitti> davmor2: hm, no EIO there, though
[15:02] <pitti> davmor2: did that actually crash with the IOError again?
[15:03] <davmor2> pitti: No it crashed at 60% the install didn't finish and the core got dumped
[15:03] <pitti> bah, why is that so unstable..
[15:04] <pitti> davmor2: that's a different bug then, though
[15:05] <davmor2> pitti: Tell you what leave it till Monday and I'll play kill jockey all day long :)
[15:05] <pitti> hehe
[15:05] <pitti> davmor2: thanks a lot so far; maybe the strace catches the IOError for someone
[15:06] <pitti> davmor2: that bug is nasty, since it doesn't have any stack trace at all
[15:06] <pitti> which is very unusual for python
[15:06] <pitti> but due to that I don't have the slightest idea why and where it happens
[15:06] <davmor2> pitti: do you want me to dump the file on my server
[15:06] <pitti> davmor2: not necessary
[15:07] <davmor2> okay cool :)
[15:07] <pitti> davmor2: the other crashes all have a proper stack trace, I'm just chasing this bloody IOError 19
[15:07]  * pitti hugs davmor2
[15:08] <mvo> kenvandine: re 131679 - the value in the backtrace is impossble to get from normal execution, so maybe some sort of memory corruption.
[15:09] <kenvandine> mvo: which means i shouldn't be able to repro it :)
[15:10] <mvo> kenvandine: if you can/could that would be great, I suspect this is actually not a screensaver bug itself but a issue from either resume (when a screensaver is also used)
[15:10] <mvo> kenvandine: the amount of duplicates in the stacktrace may very well mean it some sort of generic corruption and the backtrace is a red-herring
[15:11] <mvo> kenvandine: I was talking about it with upstream some time ago and other than "corruption" not a lot came out of it :/
[15:13]  * kenvandine resumes
[15:13] <kenvandine> no crash here.. i don't have a hardy box to test on
[15:15] <kenvandine> and i have the same video card has one of the reports
[15:16] <kenvandine> G965
[15:16]  * kenvandine comments on the bug
[15:16] <davmor2> pitti: I got a crash file in /log/crash  I didn't think to look in there doing the strace is it worth putting that some where for you?
[15:17] <pitti> davmor2: can you please look at its Traceback?
[15:31] <davmor2> pitti: I've run apport-cli -c against the crash it's just gibberish to me I'll open it as a new bug give you the number and you can always dupe it if necessary
[15:31] <pitti> davmor2: right, thanks
[15:32] <davmor2> pitti: bug 341777
[15:32] <davmor2> I'm just knocking off the private
[15:34] <davmor2> pitti: does that help at all?
[15:35] <pitti> davmor2: ugh, indeed, it's just gibberish
[15:35] <pitti> davmor2: maybe it's interfering with strace
[15:35] <pitti> davmor2: anyway, I'll have another look later
[15:35] <davmor2> noprobs I'm going to move on anyway
[15:36] <davmor2> I can always crash it again latter :)
[15:53]  * kenvandine_wk -> lunch
[17:04] <mvo> seb128: do you ahve any clever ideas about where to run add-indicator-applet.py ?
[17:05] <mvo> (other than the one I outlined in the mail)
[17:05] <seb128> mvo: I'm on a phone call right now, will reply later
[17:05] <mvo> seb128: ok, no problem
[17:32] <seb128> mvo: where did you run the previous code to add fusa on upgrade?
[17:43] <seb128> mvo: can you get update-manager to do it?
[17:55] <maxb> seb128: It's in gnome-panel
[17:59] <seb128> maxb: right, it uses update-notifier
[18:15] <salty-horse> hi. chrisccoulson, here?
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> hi
[18:16] <salty-horse> I fixed a pretty annoying regression in metacity that appears in jaunty. I think the new version should get into jaunty: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/332624
[18:16] <salty-horse> it affects windows not resizing when panels are added/removed, window icons not changing when an app changes them, and more
[18:16] <salty-horse> see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=572573 and its dupes for details
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> will that patch end up in 2.26?
[18:17] <salty-horse> it's in the newest 2.27.0 -- http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/metacity/trunk/ChangeLog?revision=4198&view=markup
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> 2.27 is an unstable release though is it not?
[18:21] <salty-horse> perhaps. I don't know anything about the gnome release process. whatever the case, I think it's important to get that specific fix in
[18:21] <chrisccoulson> i think metacity follows the rest of the gnome release numbering. if that is the case, then 2.27 will be part of the next gnome development cycle
[18:22] <chrisccoulson> if the patch applies to the current series (which will become 2.26 i think), then that's great
[18:23] <salty-horse> I'm pretty sure it should apply. the bug is quite new.. what can I do to help?
[18:24] <chrisccoulson> attaching the patch to the bug report would be quite useful i think, and making sure it applies to the current 2.25.144 release
[18:24] <salty-horse> I'll make sure it applies to the current jaunty package
[18:25] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[18:30] <salty-horse> chrisccoulson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/332624/comments/5
[18:30] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[19:44] <dobey> what's a udeb package?
[19:44] <dobey> ie, ubuntu-keyring-udeb?
[19:50] <maxb> An udeb is a package specifically for use by the debian-installer pre-installation environment
[19:53] <dobey> ah ok
[20:34] <crevette> pitti: hey
[20:34] <crevette> I forgot to say you I uploaded a bluez-gnome package with vuntz patch.
[20:35] <crevette> pitti: https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive/ppa
[20:43] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure how to get it to preserve the build environment though. that would be useful
[20:43] <kenvandine_wk> i have the log... but it isn't very useful
[20:44] <davmor2> bryce_: I've updated the bug with the improvements it bring and where I put it in the list :)
[20:45] <didrocks> seb128: the sport was good? ;)
[20:45] <kenvandine_wk> seb128!
[20:45] <bryce_> davmor2: great
[20:45] <kenvandine_wk> seb128: is there a way to keep pbuilder from cleaning up the chroot after a failure?
[20:45] <seb128> didrocks: I'm a bit tired today but otherwise yes
[20:46] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: man pbuilder? ;-)
[20:46] <seb128> kenvandine_wk: I usually use pbuilder login and work in the pbuilder then but there might be better ways
[20:46] <kenvandine_wk> i did... ok... so that is what login is for
[20:47] <didrocks> seb128: slomo didn't take 2 new .so files in the last gstreamer debian version, do you think there is this is intended?
[20:47] <didrocks> kenvandine_wk: login --save-after-login
[20:47] <seb128> didrocks: dunno ask him when he's around
[20:47] <kenvandine_wk> didrocks: thx!
[20:48] <asomething> kenvandine_wk: there's a pbuilder hook here: bzr branch lp:~kubuntu-members/pbuilder/pbuilder-hooks that will drop you to a shell on failure
[20:48] <didrocks> seb128: ok, and the multiverse version of the package seems to use different source code, do you confirm?
[20:48] <seb128> didrocks: I've no clue about that but I would guess no
[20:48] <seb128> didrocks: just different build-depends
[20:49] <didrocks> seb128: some changes in debian/rules apparently in configure phase. I think I have to update this one too, consequently…
[20:49] <kenvandine_wk> asomething: that is useful!
[20:49] <seb128> didrocks: yeah, just use the same tarball and copy the debian directory over
[20:50] <didrocks> seb128: I will see first with slomo for this 2 new .so files. Maybe they are non-free and I have to put them in multiverse
[20:50] <asomething> kenvandine_wk: there are a couple other useful hooks in that branch as well
[20:50] <didrocks> (no updated upstream NEWS file, unfortunately :/)
[20:54] <didrocks> seb128: I will not available until Monday (I don't keep my gpg key on my server, surprinsingly ;)). So, I will update this version which is mostly synced on debian (with just the patch), and ask to slomo tomorrow
[21:03] <seb128> re
[21:03] <seb128> didrocks: sorry I was having dinner
[21:03] <didrocks> seb128: no problem :)
[21:03] <seb128> didrocks: ELACKVERB?
[21:03] <didrocks> (you ate quickly)
[21:03] <seb128> not *be* available?
[21:03] <didrocks> seb128: exactly, I ate words sometimes ;)
[21:03] <seb128> didrocks: yeah, after sport I have an light dinner usually
[21:04] <didrocks> seb128: it's better ^^
[21:04] <seb128> didrocks: anyway no hurry, yes just upload what slomo did for debian and you can figure other changes next week
[21:05] <didrocks> seb128: I am just checking that everything is still ok with the multiverse package
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm just looking at some of the milestoned desktop bugs, in particular, this one: bug 337235
[21:23] <seb128> bug #337235
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> i've seen this before but with a different package
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media/+bug/337235
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> ah
[21:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson: well, I had a quick look some days ago the .omf is there so it should be indexed
[21:24] <seb128> dunno why it's not
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> it calls "xdg-open ghelp:gnome-volume-control", but somewhere along the way, the URI gets mangled and becomes "ghelp:///gnome-volume-control"
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> if you run "yelp ghelp:gnome-volume-control", then it works fine
[21:25] <seb128> indeed
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> but call it with gnome-open, and it fails this way
[21:25] <seb128> another glib issue?
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> thats what i was thinking
[21:26] <seb128> there is another weird bug
[21:26] <chrisccoulson> it can be worked around, by using gtk_show_uri()
[21:26] <seb128> clicking on the website url in the help dialog of several GNOME program open a browser twice
[21:26] <seb128> do it ;-)
[21:26] <seb128> would still be nice to fix the issue though
[21:26] <seb128> but gtk_show_uri() seems a correct change anyway
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> i'm trying to find a help page with a url on ;)
[21:29] <seb128> gedit
[21:29] <chrisccoulson> ah, from the "About" dialog is it?
[21:29] <seb128> yes
[21:29] <chrisccoulson> i get that too
[21:29] <seb128> gtk-demo doesn't has the issue
[21:29] <chrisccoulson> thats strange
[21:29] <seb128> so I'm not sure that's a gtk bug
[21:29] <chrisccoulson> quite possibly
[21:31] <seb128> that's weird
[21:31] <seb128> they just use gtk_show_about_dialog()
[21:31] <seb128> gtk-demo and gedit
[21:31] <seb128> I don't get why they behave differently
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that doesn't make much sense
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> i'll report a bug upstream against glib about the URI mangling
[21:36] <seb128> thanks
[21:36] <seb128> there was an another bug about uri mangling no?
[21:36] <seb128> or that was desktop handling?
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> there was the one where http:/// uri's were being opened as local files
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> that one is fixed now
[21:37] <seb128> I was thinking about bug #335712
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> i haven't tried to recreate that yet
[21:49] <didrocks> hum, time to go to bed, have a good night :)
[21:50] <calc> seb128: where does the gnome-user-share file share show up after you enable it?
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> is bzr-buildpackage working for anyone here?
[21:51] <seb128> dunno I never used it
[21:51] <calc> seb128: ok
[21:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson: what error do you get?
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> then a traceback
[21:52] <calc> kenvandine_wk: i see you uploaded it last? happen to know how it works, if at all?
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> i wrote a patch for that gnome-media bug and was trying to build it from bzr
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> it works if i already have the upstream tarball
[21:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson: didn't that error yet
[21:55]  * calc will try logging out and back in to see if it helps any
[21:55] <chrisccoulson> that's odd. i've probably broken something on my system ;)
[21:56] <calc> ok that fixed it
[21:57] <calc> gah! gvfs is crap
[21:57] <calc> ccheney@x200:~/.gvfs/ccheney%27s public files on x200$ touch foo
[21:57] <calc> touch: cannot touch `foo': No such file or directory
[21:57] <calc> then ls and its there
[21:58] <calc> you know i'm beginning to think OOo's native gvfs support might not be buggy... its just gvfs is so buggy itself
[22:02] <dobey> OOo doesn't use gvfs :)
[22:07] <calc> dobey: it tries to, i have disabled in my build but this failure i am seeing is trying to save the gvfs fuse fs under ~/.gvfs/foo
[22:07] <calc> and apparently no one uses gvfs much as I am finding bugs with every new attempt to use it
[22:07] <seb128> gvfs is not so buggy stop trolling
[22:08] <seb128> the fuse implementation is fallback method and not as tested
[22:08] <dobey> calc: it uses gio. gvfs just happens to provide some backends for gio to use, and does some funky stuff with exposing mounts via fuse implementation
[22:08] <dobey> seb128: no it isn't. it only ever passes around paths that point to the fuse filesystem now, so that stuff works better together
[22:08] <calc> seb128: truncate was not supported at all until 1.1.7 (at which point it did with size == 0), it still doesn't support truncate right even for smb, it doesn't work properly for ftp and webdav still
[22:09] <calc> seb128: if you touch a file under ftp or webdav it claims it did not save even when it did
[22:09] <seb128> why is truncate useful?
[22:09] <seb128> those backends are crappy yes
[22:09] <calc> seb128: truncate on a fuse fs useful? eh so you can actually save files to the fs like a normal fs
[22:09] <seb128> ftp is not a nice protocol and doesn't make the job easy
[22:09] <seb128> and webdav has been written quickly and not maintained actively since
[22:09] <seb128> that's what I say, don't use fuse
[22:09] <seb128> gedit uses gvfs directly and has no such issue
[22:10]  * calc can't tell if the issues he was seeing in OOo before were due to it secretly using gvfs fuse instead of real gvfs or were other bugs
[22:10] <seb128> those are bugs but GNOME applications usually use gvfs directly and no the fuse thing
[22:10] <dobey> seb128: one doesn't really have much choice to 'not use fuse' for gvfs any more
[22:10] <dobey> no gnome apps use gvfs directly
[22:10] <dobey> it's not a library :)
[22:11] <seb128> they use gio same difference ;-)
[22:11] <seb128> rather than trying to do posix calls over fuse which is prone to be buggy
[22:12] <calc> so OOo has gnome-vfs and gio support, gio support is totally broken for some reason (can't even start OOo with it enabled), and gnome-vfs support is weirdly broken at this point i think it was because it was giving OOo fuse urls from nautilus at least in some of the cases as fuse seems to have been really broken at least < 1.1.7
[22:12] <calc> seb128: isn't posix calls the entire point of fuse?
[22:12] <calc> if it isn't intended to support posix calls probably gvfs fuse should go away entirely
[22:12] <seb128> gnomevfs was crap to use no doubt
[22:13] <seb128> it's not that it's not intended
[22:13] <calc> er it in my longer comment above meant nautilus i forgot to mention that
[22:13] <seb128> but rather than alex prefers to spend effort making gio works correctly
[22:13] <seb128> which is what GNOME applications use
[22:13] <calc> yea
[22:13] <seb128> rather than working on the fuse thingy
[22:13] <dobey> well, davidz does most of the gvfs hacking, not alex
[22:13] <dobey> afaict
[22:13] <seb128> no
[22:14] <seb128> davidz does the monitors and gphoto coding
[22:14] <calc> fuse is useful if it is usable as there are many non-gnome applications that might want network access as well
[22:14] <dobey> filesystems on linux just suck :)
[22:14] <seb128> alex has writting most of gvfs and do most of the gio and gvfs daemon work
[22:14] <seb128> well, that's good that you test it and they are fixing bugs you submit
[22:15] <dobey> yeah gvfs exists to avoid doing i/o inside gio :)
[22:15] <seb128> that's just not the most interesting part for GNOME
[22:17] <calc> heh
[22:17] <calc> yea, i agree, i wish OOo gio support would just work :-\
[22:18] <calc> i don't have time to debug it yet, maybe it will just magically start working with OOo 3.1 for karmic :)
[22:18] <calc> supposedly it works fine for Novell so it might be they forgot to put a patch into trunk
[22:26] <mclasen> calc: if you want to ensure that specific OOo-needs keep working in gvfs, figuring out a way to add unit tests for them to gvfs would help enormously
[22:32] <calc> mclasen: i'm not actually sure if they ever worked at all, i recently decided to switch OOo over to using gvfs fuse since i couldn't determine what was causing the other saving problems when it was using gnome-vfs
[22:32] <calc> mclasen: meaning i don't know if these issues are regressions or just never tested functionality
[22:33] <mclasen> it doesn't make any difference for my recommendation...
[22:35] <calc> mclasen: does gvfs has a unit test setup already?
[22:36] <calc> s/has/have
[22:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson: the bzr-builddeb bug is known and fixed to debian apparently, we can probably sync, I will check with pitti or james_w tomorrow
[22:47] <james_w> correct
[22:47] <james_w> I forgot to request the sync, sorry
[22:47] <seb128> oh, hey james_w
[22:47] <james_w> I'll sort that today
[22:47] <seb128> james_w: you know you don't need to request those
[22:47] <seb128> james_w: you can just do the sync yourself directly ;-)
[22:47] <chrisccoulson> thanks seb128. i've created a branch of gnome-media with a patch in, and requested a merge in to ubuntu-desktop. i sent the patch upstream too
[22:47] <james_w> heh :-)
[22:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson: yeah, I'm sponsoring that right now, thanks
[22:48] <james_w> ah, that's it, it's a merge, due to --install-layout
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[22:48] <james_w> I need to find out if that's supported in Debian
[22:48] <james_w> but I'll upload today
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - just looking at the gnome-desktop bug that slangasek opened. I can recreate it, but it also seems like creating the desktop file is broken too. I just created a desktop file with (what I thought) was a similar Exec line to the one quoted, using gnome-desktop-item-edit, and the backslashes in the unquoted string ended up doubled in the desktop file (so there are 4 of them)
[22:56] <chrisccoulson> so the created desktop file actually ends up working. it only fails if you manually edit the desktop file