[07:16] <naymyowin> hi
[11:58]  * persia peers about
[12:00] <persia> OK.  Time for the Mobile Team meeting
[12:00] <persia> #startmeeting
[12:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is persia.
[12:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:00] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090312
[12:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090312
[12:00] <persia> [topic] persia's action items
[12:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia's action items
[12:00] <persia> Erm.  I'll run through the test cases and put them up tomorrow
[12:01] <persia> [topic] NCommander's action items
[12:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander's action items
[12:01]  * NCommander is trying to pull up the list
[12:01]  * ogra is here now 
[12:02] <ogra> do we have lool ? or is he travelling ?
[12:02] <NCommander> I have my jax10 working again, I'll be posting the log today
[12:02] <ogra> (i know davidm is)
[12:02] <NCommander> No progress on anything else due to babbage enablement.
[12:02]  * ogra looks around for StevenK 
[12:02] <persia> NCommander, OK.  DO you want those carried over?
[12:03] <NCommander> persia, I think the arm-softboot-loader spec probably should me scratched, simply because I'm not going to touch it until karmic unless my TODO flies away and I have nothing left/
[12:03] <NCommander> the dmesg will be posted today, no need to carry over.
[12:04]  * StevenK shores
[12:04] <persia> I'll carry it anyway, as it's not done now :)
[12:04] <NCommander> fair enough
[12:04] <persia> But I'll drop the arm-softboot-loader stuff.
[12:04] <ogra> NCommander, it would still be helpful to have a full researc on the softbootloader stuff in advance to karmic
[12:04] <persia> [topic] lool's action items
[12:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool's action items
[12:05] <NCommander> ogra, I perfectly agree, but I don't think its worth this getting carried over constantly, I'm not touching it until karmic.
[12:05] <persia> It's on the roadmap anyway.
[12:06] <persia> OK.  I'll carry that over.
[12:06] <persia> [topic] ogra's action items
[12:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's action items
[12:06] <persia> ogra, Still three people listed on the Roadmap.  Did the less visible part get done?
[12:07] <ogra> well, babbage enablement kept me from doing anytrhing else
[12:07] <persia> Well, since your only action item was "take charge of Babbage enablement", I'm still curious if it got done :)
[12:07] <ogra> though i think the babbage image implements a part of selection-of-arm images
[12:08] <ogra> probably even the biggest part :)
[12:08] <persia> That's not a bad thing.
[12:08] <persia> Still, are you the reporting person, or shall this be carried over?
[12:08] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/babbage/ has the image ...
[12:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/babbage/ has the image ...
[12:08] <persia> We're not there yet :)  That comes later.
[12:08] <ogra> seems to largely work with a handfull of known bugs
[12:09] <ogra> (well, thats my report on babbage enablement ... whgich is an action item ;) )
[12:10] <persia> OK.  I'm claiming you're in charge, and that the action is done then.
[12:10] <persia> Moving on to the roadmap
[12:10] <persia> [topic] offline-installer
[12:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer
[12:11] <ogra> nmo progress ... still the rootfs script is our best we have
[12:11] <ogra> *no
[12:11] <persia> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard
[12:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard
[12:11] <ogra> and i'm happy to confirm that bug 328167 isnt caused by the setup the script implements
[12:11] <persia> Oh, good!
[12:11] <ogra> its actually a g-k-d bug
[12:12] <ogra> (since it also shows up on the live image)
[12:13] <ogra> any news on the setup wizard ?
[12:14] <persia> I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to display the right next steps to complete the procedure with oem-config, but think I'm nearly there.  I ought to be able to report out on a procedure for an OEM install of both mobile flavours for next week.
[12:14] <persia> Note that UNR can be oem installed now, if one doesn't use the launcher (or exposes the Desktop).
[12:14] <persia> [topic] arm-library-optimisation
[12:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  arm-library-optimisation
[12:14] <persia> lool doesn't seem to be around, so we'll skip this one this week
[12:15] <persia> [topic] pouslbo-packaging
[12:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  pouslbo-packaging
[12:15] <persia> In Progress.  The 2D stuff works great.  The 3D stuff doesn't work.  The documentation is lagging.
[12:15] <persia> [topic] general-resolution-for-touchscree-handling
[12:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  general-resolution-for-touchscree-handling
[12:15] <ogra> no progress (sadly)
[12:16] <persia> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
[12:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
[12:16] <ogra> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=3127852160d9e8ec0680bf3720e08e49&t=25975 the bootmenu at the bootom is very intresting
[12:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=3127852160d9e8ec0680bf3720e08e49&t=25975 the bootmenu at the bootom is very intresting
[12:16] <persia> So, digging into this debate: I agree that we need to get more research and prep work done before karmic starts.
[12:16] <NCommander> no progress w.r.t. to drafting the spec.
[12:16] <persia> Not necessarily any code, but it would be nice to have at least some serious framework for discussion for UDS.
[12:17] <ogra> right
[12:17] <NCommander> No, that I agree
[12:17] <ogra> the possible existing implementations should be researched (and there are plenty)
[12:17] <persia> OK.  Since we're all in agreement, let's leave this on the roadmap, and keep tracking it.
[12:17] <ogra> and should be listed in the spec draft
[12:17] <persia> [topic] selection-of-arm-images
[12:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images
[12:18] <ogra> well ...
[12:18] <ogra> no gui tzool and i doubt i'll write one
[12:18] <ogra> but we have a live image
[12:18] <ogra> due to lack of offficially supported kernels it doesnt make real sense to add the additional tool
[12:18] <persia> Should the spec be trimmed, and a follow-up spec be written for a GUI, or will a GUI not be useful in the long-term?
[12:18] <NCommander> Now that the kernel has landed, we just need flash-kernel added, then a d-i port becomes fessible.
[12:19] <ogra> yeah, spec trimming seems sensible
[12:19] <persia> [action] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
[12:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
[12:19] <ogra> a gui tool really only makes sense if we have multiple kernels we support
[12:19] <persia> [action] ogra to register a new spec for a GUI to assist with kernel addition to arm images
[12:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to register a new spec for a GUI to assist with kernel addition to arm images
[12:20] <persia> Right.  Let's just register that separately, and then discuss again once we have a better picture of the karmic kernel situation.
[12:20] <ogra> jep
[12:20] <persia> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
[12:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
[12:20] <ogra> really depends what platforms we'll support in KK
[12:20] <persia> lool is away again, so skipping.
[12:20] <persia> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
[12:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
[12:20] <persia> No change
[12:20] <persia> [topic] bug #299847
[12:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #299847
[12:21] <ogra> did you ever recieve the app reviews ?
[12:21]  * ogra knows he didnt do one
[12:21] <persia> That was mid-application-selection, and no, y'all suck :p
[12:21] <NCommander> What app reviews?
[12:21] <NCommander> oh
[12:21] <NCommander> I sent mine!
[12:21] <persia> Anyway, we're talking about a FTBFS bug.
[12:22] <NCommander> Anyway, no real progress. strace has a huge signal to noise ratio due to perl, and I have yet to create  a working test case
[12:22] <ogra> right, NCommander, any news ?
[12:22] <persia> OK.
[12:22] <persia> [topic] bug#328167
[12:22]  * NCommander would like to see if a new kernel this still happens
[12:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug#328167
[12:22] <ogra> upstream acknowledged it as NEW ...
[12:22] <ogra> no further response yet
[12:22] <persia> Cool.  Any likelihood of a solution?
[12:22] <persia> Oh well.
[12:22] <ogra> i saw it working once on the live image and thought it was a clock issue
[12:23] <ogra> but that was a red herring
[12:23] <NCommander> As a datapoint
[12:23] <NCommander> I've never had an issues with g-k-d
[12:23] <ogra> now that i have a live image i can work on that to do further debugging though
[12:23]  * NCommander has not been able to reproduce :-/
[12:23] <ogra> NCommander, it should show up on the live image
[12:23] <ogra> if it doesnt for you, please note that in the bug
[12:24] <ogra> because then its somehow HW related
[12:24] <ogra> i cant actually reproduce it now
[12:24] <ogra> on all my setups
[12:25] <ogra> it might as well be kernel related, but we need more data to actually point at a place
[12:26] <NCommander> ogra, scratch that, just started up, and its happening for me
[12:26] <ogra> right
[12:26]  * NCommander hasn't had this issue before expect when running on the liveCD
[12:26] <ogra> so everyone of us can reproduce it now
[12:26] <persia> [topic] bug #280699
[12:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280699
[12:26] <ogra> which should give us the option to nail it down more easily
[12:27] <NCommander> I think that's the wrong bug number
[12:27] <ogra> yeah
[12:27] <ogra> 669 :)
[12:27] <persia> [topic] bug #280669
[12:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669
[12:27] <persia> Sorry.
[12:27]  * ogra once had a car plate with the same issue :) was fun
[12:28] <NCommander> I have my jax10 working again, and I have an lpia image, I'm going to post the dmesg and answer lool's question, hopefully today
[12:28] <persia> [topic] bug #336770
[12:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #336770
[12:29] <ogra> its gotten a lot further and i think the issues the reporter sees are due to lvm or encryption
[12:29] <ogra> thought its a bit odd that he hits oom while swap is mounted
[12:29] <ogra> i'm running a test install today but it will still take several hours
[12:29] <persia> Sounds under control then.
[12:30] <ogra> i think its fixed if you go with all the standards
[12:30] <NCommander> ogra, NSLU2 installation requires loads of swap, I've had it OOM with Debian with a 364M swap partition.
[12:30] <persia> [topic] bug #338148
[12:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  bug #338148
[12:30] <ogra> just selecting special options seems to trigger it
[12:31] <ogra> that vnc bug doesnt lok any arm specific
[12:31] <ogra> (the rodmap mentionjs it as armel porting specific)
[12:31] <persia> Right.  I'll take a look at it in detail tomorrow, but I agree it doesn't look ARM specific.
[12:32] <ogra> looks liek a simple merge bug
[12:32] <ogra> *like
[12:32] <persia> [action] persia to investigate 338148
[12:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to investigate 338148
[12:32] <persia> [topic] NSLU2 enablement
[12:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  NSLU2 enablement
[12:33] <ogra> well, its tracked on bug #336770
[12:33] <persia> And you said that you think it works if you use the default options, right?
[12:33] <ogra> as i said above, i assume installing without extra options works
[12:33] <ogra> right
[12:33] <persia> If you can confirm that, would you drop it from the roadmap as complete?
[12:34] <ogra> the reporter there tries to use encrypted lvm and i assume thats just not possible with the amount of ram
[12:34] <ogra> but i need to confirm first
[12:34] <ogra> yep
[12:34] <persia> [topic] Babbage Enablement
[12:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Babbage Enablement
[12:34] <ogra> first manually rolled live image is there
[12:35] <NCommander> morning davidm
[12:35] <davidm> NCommander, morning
[12:35] <ogra> we're waiting for NCommanders redboot package and for lool's redboot partitioning scheme
[12:35] <ogra> and a tool to write to the partitions
[12:35] <NCommander> Well, we can build redboot from source now
[12:35] <davidm> Sorry I'm late and I have to leave again in minutes
[12:35] <NCommander> (and its evil toolchain)
[12:35] <ogra> right, package it :)
[12:35] <NCommander> I have
[12:35] <NCommander> (mostly)
[12:35] <NCommander> Packages still need some work, but I can get a working GCC package
[12:36]  * ogra considers it done if a package shows up on jaunty-changes :P
[12:36] <ogra> (so dont say "i have" ;) )
[12:36] <NCommander> Well, I packaged it (which I have)
[12:36] <NCommander> I just haven't submitted it :-)
[12:37] <ogra> if we require a special tool to write to the redboot partitions, this tool should probably go into the package as well
[12:37] <ogra> please talk to lool about that
[12:37] <ogra> it might only use dd with different offests
[12:37] <ogra> which could as well be a flash-kernel addition, but i'm not sure
[12:38] <NCommander> ogra, well, at the moment, I'm concerned on building redboot as a package, lool is handling fis/fconfig/flash-kernel AFAIK
[12:38] <ogra> right
[12:38] <ogra> thats what i'm saying
[12:38] <ogra> lool handles the partitioning and will tell us what we need to write to them
[12:39] <ogra> if there is a special script that might be better going into the redboot package
[12:39] <NCommander> ogra, well, at the moment, I only have the EVIL toolchain building
[12:39] <NCommander> and I need to fix up the GCC package so its not just one major blob of files
[12:39] <ogra> right, do what you need to do
[12:39] <ogra> thats highest prio
[12:40] <ogra> we need redboot packaged to autobuild the images
[12:40] <ogra> i'm currently blocked on that with liveimage auto-creation
[12:40] <ogra> a manual image is nice as a first shot, but we need dailies
[12:41] <davidm> NCommander, please get the situation solved ASAP, we need to get liveimage auto-creation
[12:41] <davidm> I need dailies last week!!!!
[12:41] <davidm> NCommander,
[12:41] <ogra> haha
[12:41] <davidm> NCommander, ^^
[12:41] <ogra> without kernel :P
[12:41]  * NCommander would need a time machine to fix that for you :-/
[12:41] <davidm> OK sorry have to run to catch shuttle to office
[12:41] <ogra> even the kernel we have atm is very shaky
[12:42] <ogra> it only works due to several hacks i applied
[12:42] <NCommander> ogra, I still can't use a root=USB stick :-/
[12:42] <ogra> (in initramfs/casper)
[12:42] <davidm> understood, but lets get what we can done, done.
[12:42] <ogra> right
[12:42] <ogra> first step is redboot
[12:42] <NCommander> davidm, its top of my priorities, but full directions on how to build RedBoot are up, so we can generate the blob by hand, but if I'm lucky, we can get a RB binary built, then I need to sitdown and make the packages not be ugly
[12:42] <NCommander> (building GCC is extremely nasty ATM)
[12:42] <ogra> and getting the kernel in shape, which i''m working on with amitk
[12:43] <ogra> last step is to make it all work with ubiquity
[12:43] <NCommander> I should have all the initial packaging done by weeks end. Probably take a few more days though to get it all through REVU, through NEW, and into the archive ...
[12:44] <ogra> some issues are already on cjwatson's plate for that (partitioning and HW support in d.i for example)
[12:44] <ogra> NCommander, feel free to ask StevenK, persia and me for REVU reviews ... we should get it through fast
[12:44] <NCommander> ogra, oh, I plan to, but I still need to have the packages done to do that :-)
[12:45] <ogra> indeed
[12:45] <ogra> persia, i think thats it for babbage enablement atm
[12:46] <persia> [topic] ARM benchmarking
[12:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM benchmarking
[12:46] <NCommander> Mostly completed. Two app benchmarks haven't been run, but I have a working LCD again, so I can finish those up once I write the old redboot and a 2.6.26 kernel to my SD card.
[12:47] <ogra> thats only relevant for karmic, right ?
[12:47] <ogra> we wont do any archive rebuild for jaunty
[12:47] <NCommander> ogra, right, these have been done awhile, but blocked on my LCD going bing and dying
[12:47] <ogra> so its not critical to have before beta
[12:47] <ogra> babbage enablement is ...
[12:48] <persia> OK.  That's it for the roadmap then.
[12:48] <ogra> so please priorize babbage above benchmarks
[12:48] <persia> The only other thing on the agenda is meeting times, so:
[12:48] <NCommander> ogra, I know :-)
[12:48] <persia> [topic] Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
[12:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
[12:48] <ogra> well, not enought people around to discuss that imho
[12:49] <persia> I submit that not enough people are around in part because of the current time of the meeting.
[12:49] <ogra> not really
[12:49]  * NCommander notes that most of the Americans that are regulars are MIA
[12:49] <persia> Anyone else want to defer to next week?
[12:49] <ogra> the US people are all in UK atm
[12:49] <NCommander> ogra, I'm not :-P
[12:49] <ogra> theoretically it should be a perfect time
[12:50] <ogra> NCommander, well, but you are here :)
[12:50] <persia> OK.  Deferred.
[12:50] <NCommander> It should be noted that with the US in daylight savings, the meeting is now an hour lower for us US folks
[12:50] <NCommander> (yay for 8am vs 7m)
[12:50] <persia> Any other business?
[12:50]  * ogra hasnt heard lower wrt to time ever :)
[12:52] <ogra> looks like we're done ?
[12:52] <persia> OK. Meeting adjourned.
[12:52] <persia> #endmeeting
[12:52] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:52.
[12:53] <persia> I'm feeling lousy today.  If someone else volunteered to write up the minutes, I'd be happy.
[12:53]  * dholbach hugs persia
[12:54] <persia> Oh well.  Expect them late then.
[12:54] <ogra> thanks persia for chairing
[12:54] <persia> dholbach, :)
[12:54]  * NCommander hugs persia as well
[12:55] <cjwatson> ogra: I'm interested to know what these issues that are on my plate are :-)
[12:55] <ogra> cjwatson, the partitioning stuff that partman came up with
[12:56] <cjwatson> ogra: err, you'll have to remind me
[12:56] <ogra> cjwatson, and general HW support for babbage, we talked about both before but i'm waiting for a motre finalized kernel
[12:56] <ogra> *more
[12:56] <ogra> cjwatson, be sure i will, its my main work item until beta
[12:57] <ogra> but atm i'm focuing mre on getting the images clean than on installability
[12:57] <ogra> *focusing more
[12:57] <ogra> (one step at a time)
[13:57]  * persia peers about
[14:00] <persia> Who's here for the Java Team Meeting?
[14:00] <ttx> o/
[14:01] <persia> Right.  Someone ought popularise these meetings more :)
[14:01] <persia> Nothing special on the agenda.
[14:01] <persia> robilad isn't here
[14:01] <persia> slytherin isn't here
[14:02] <persia> The only remaining obstacle to dropping sun-java5 is that there are some pending SRUs, which I'm hoping to get in process this weekend.  I do expect it can be dropped for beta.
[14:02] <persia> ttx, How's progrss on the Java-Contents file?
[14:03] <ttx> persia: I haven't make a lot of progress since last week, I was taken on something more urgent.
[14:03] <ttx> As soon as I free one hour or two it should be completed
[14:04] <ttx> and the result posted on some people.ubuntu.com location. + code to regenerate it in LP
[14:04] <persia> OK.
[14:05] <persia> How about plans to attract more Java packagers?
[14:05] <ttx> I still have to compile a list of missing libraries that we would target and coordinate with debian-java
[14:06] <ttx> so no progress here either, sorry
[14:06] <persia> OK.
[14:06] <persia> Anything else to add or mention?
[14:06] <ttx> i had good feedback on my LibraryPackaging doc though
[14:06] <persia> Cool!
[14:06] <ttx> ludovicc and twerner seem to make good progress on the Maven side of things
[14:07] <ttx> Checking their work out is on my TODO list... somewhere
[14:07] <persia> Excellent.  You think we'll be in shape for karmic?
[14:07] <ttx> We should import most of what's needed during the debian import window, yes.
[14:08] <ttx> I have to look at it deeper to be sure it will be the case
[14:09] <persia> That should make it easier to adopt more packages, or at least handle those who have signed on to maven completely.
[14:11] <ttx> nothing else on my side
[14:12] <persia> I don't have anything else either.
[14:12] <persia> Meeting adjourned then.  Until next week.
[14:13] <ttx> Thanks persia !
[15:36] <lool> persia: Thanks for running the mobile meeting