[00:00] <mattparry> Hi!  How can you tell which version of QT you are currently running?
[00:01] <crdlb> mattparry: apt-cache policy libqt4-core ?
[00:03] <mattparry> crdlb - wow, thats what I like about linux - you learn something new everyday - thank you
[00:07] <mase_work> mattparry: doesn't matter how long you use it for either..i started in 98 and i still learn new stuff almost every day.
[00:18] <unixdawg> ok how do I reconfigure x
[00:19] <unixdawg> whats the command in jaunty xorgconfig does not seem to be in a pkg
[00:19] <unixdawg> I lost my monitor and have to fall back to a older unit
[00:20] <unixdawg> ?
[00:21] <unixdawg> hello ?
[00:22] <marijus> unixdawg: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
[00:26] <unixdawg> x comes up but I get a black background\
[00:27] <danbhfive> unixdawg try xrandr also
[00:28] <theholyduck> unixdawg, got a new ati card?
[00:29] <theholyduck> "New"
[00:31] <unixdawg> its ati radeon xpress
[00:32] <theholyduck> unixdawg, well try adding Driver     "radeonhd" under the device section
[00:32] <theholyduck> i've had xorg THINK it detects my graphics card correctly then give me a black screen
[00:32] <theholyduck> instead of picking the radeonhd driver
[00:32] <unixdawg> but come to find out it looks like the monitor only does 1024x768 and I cant get it to load in the proper res
[00:33] <theholyduck> meh. xorg is always trying to be clever and failing hard
[00:33] <theholyduck> i really dont know how to fix that piece of broken shit
[00:43] <unixdawg> well I just went and barrowed a moniter from my neighbor hoping it will come up in a min
[00:43] <unixdawg> I need to get in and backup my data
[00:51] <unixdawg_> ok got it up witht he lcd
[01:32] <swj> does anyone know if you have to install a separate package for the 'New' gnome artwork that is suppose to be in gnome 2.26?
[01:53] <TheUnderTaker> ext4 is AMAZING!
[01:53] <zerwas> yesh?
[01:53] <mphill_> is the update-notifer not working for everyone or just me?
[01:53] <crdlb> mphill_: intentional :/
[01:53] <mphill_> ok
[01:54] <TheUnderTaker> Extents do make a difference
[01:54] <crdlb> mphill_: now it will pop update-manager up in the background once a week
[01:54] <mase_work> TheUnderTaker: so for those of us who haven't tried it, what is amazing about it ?
[01:54] <mphill_> humm
[01:54] <mphill_> are they going to switch to package kit or something?
[01:54] <crdlb> there's a gconf setting to make it work the old way
[01:55] <TheUnderTaker> faster fsck, faster file deletion times thanks to extents, less fragmentation
[01:55] <crdlb> mphill_: not this cycle
[01:55] <crdlb> afaik
[01:55] <TheUnderTaker> although i dont trust it to my /home parition yet
[01:55] <mphill_> crdlb, why did they do this?
[01:55] <crdlb> TheUnderTaker: hmm, that's pretty smart :)
[01:57] <crdlb> mphill_: because OS X does it :P
[01:57] <crdlb> basically, they felt that users don't know what to do when they see the updates icon
[01:57] <mphill_> windows does updates once a week too
[01:58] <TheUnderTaker> no windows does updates once a month mostly called update tuesday
[01:59] <mphill_> i found it: /apps/update-notifier/regular_auto_launch_interval
[01:59] <crdlb> that's when they push them
[01:59] <crdlb> which isn't what this is about; this is about when the computer does them / annoys the user about them
[01:59] <mphill_> dood
[02:00] <mphill_> well
[02:00] <mphill_> thats the price i guess we pay for having a bunch of people jump ship to linux
[02:00] <mphill_> :\
[02:00] <crdlb> it's design-by-committee at its worst
[02:00] <TheUnderTaker> cya
[02:01] <mphill_> i might install package-kit
[02:01] <mphill_> its pretty nice
[02:02] <mase_work> its not so bad as long as you have the ability to change it
[02:15] <sigma92> hi guys, i just downloaded kubuntu alpha 6.
[02:15] <sigma92> on both the computers i've tried it, so far a netbook and a desktop, plasma crashes immediately upon launch
[02:15] <sigma92> it gives the following error
[02:15] <sigma92> error message was: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply"
[02:15] <sigma92> (when run manually from a terminal)
[02:16] <sigma92> i essentially have no desktop.
[02:16] <sigma92> this is a showstopping bug, even for an alpha release.
[02:16] <sigma92> i googled the error message and got a launchpad bug that as of march 9, is labeled "fix committed."
[02:16] <sigma92> however, i've downloaded all updates (had to plug in anethernet cable because network manager is now a plasma widget...)
[02:17] <sigma92> no dice.
[02:17] <sigma92> what's going on? how did an alpha get released that literally doesn't work?
[02:25] <sigma92> well after further googling i found a fix, luckily. if anyone else comes in and asks about the problem, tell them the fix is to run this
[02:25] <sigma92> sudo rm /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/share/config/plasma-appletsrc
[02:31] <z0d14k> I've been running Jaunty since ~Alpha 2.  It is awesome.  Love it.  I had a couple complaints, but figured if I was patient, they would go away.  All except 1 has.  I can't get my bluetooth mouse to connect.  bluetooth applet claims to connect, but the mouse stays in discovery mode.  dmesg and /var/log/messages both look like they think the connection is happening....
[02:31] <z0d14k> Any ideas what I could try
[02:41] <victory747> hi, has anyone noticed that apt-get update will resize your terminal window?  It seems apt-get update sends escape codes to the terminal on summary, changes colors and such, but also resizes the terminal.
[02:42] <victory747> Can someone test this - make a terminal window much wider and then apt-get update?
[02:43] <crdlb> victory747: I don't see that with gnome-terminal
[02:44] <crdlb> your apt-get update has colors?
[02:44] <victory747> odd - why is it doing it for me?
[02:44] <victory747> yes
[02:44] <victory747> actually, it gives a big summary after I run apt-get update
[02:44] <victory747> of all the changes since the last time I ran it, I guess
[02:44] <victory747> I've only seen this in jaunty
[02:44] <crdlb> are you sure that's not some kind of hook you added?
[02:44] <victory747> I don't recall doing anything like that on purpose
[02:45] <victory747> hmmm, let me look into it - maybe i loaded in a package
[02:47] <victory747> ah, I think it's daptup
[02:50] <victory747> yep, that's it!
[02:50] <victory747> thanks for your help!
[02:50] <crdlb> same happens here :)
[02:50] <victory747> you mean with daptup?
[02:51] <crdlb> yes, it reverts the terminal to 80x24
[02:51] <victory747> I wonder if that is intentional behavior
[02:51] <victory747> seems strange
[02:51] <crdlb> I doubt it
[02:51] <victory747> maybe I'll file a bug against it then
[02:54] <victory747> although does anyone care about universe packages?
[02:55] <crdlb> they do, just not to the same degree
[02:56] <victory747> it's just a shell script - I don't know where these codes are coming from
[02:58] <victory747> it uses tput
[03:00] <victory747> tput iniut
[03:00] <victory747> tput init
[03:00] <victory747> that is the offending line
[03:01] <crdlb> it is?
[03:01] <victory747> yes
[03:01] <victory747> line 430 of /usr/bin/daptup
[03:01] <victory747> just type tput init in your terminal
[03:01] <crdlb> I saw that, but it's not doing anything here :/
[03:01] <crdlb> ah
[03:02] <crdlb> I hadn't made it wide enough
[03:02] <victory747> there must be a work-around
[03:09] <victory747> you can GET the width with tput cols
[03:19] <victory747> crdlb, why is the tput init there in the first place?  Is it necessary?
[03:19] <crdlb> I have no idea
[03:19] <crdlb> I've never used it
[03:20] <victory747> are you still looking at this, or have you lost interest?
[03:20] <crdlb> what is there to look at? :)
[03:21] <victory747> I want to fix it!
[03:22] <victory747> maybe I'll file a bug report against it
[03:22] <victory747> since I don't really understand it
[03:22] <victory747> ok, thanks for your help!
[03:23] <crdlb> bug 251105
[03:23] <crdlb> maybe?
[03:23] <victory747> hmm
[03:24] <victory747> tput init does not resize xterm
[03:26] <victory747> I don't think the init is needed
[03:28] <victory747> I'm going to write to the daptup author who is also the debian package maintainer
[03:28] <crdlb> it appears to be for clearing any changes it made
[03:30] <victory747> tput sgr0 seems to do that
[03:33] <victory747> i don't think tput init is needed
[03:38] <victory747> i wrote to the author
[03:38] <victory747> thanks for your help
[03:41] <victory747> hey, reading that bug, it seems this is a problem with gnome-terminal
[03:41] <victory747> if I type "reset" in intrepid, it merely resets the terminal
[03:41] <victory747> if I type "reset" in jaunty, it resizes the terminal to 80 columns
[03:47] <victory747> ah! bug 330205
[03:51] <victory747> this is beyond me now, - back to work!
[04:30] <DanaG> !find jcapimin.o
[05:06] <mattparry> Hi, Im running alpha 6 live CD - Plasma desktop not working - anyone else having this issue?
[05:07] <mattparry> on kubuntu - btw
[05:09] <DanaG> KMS is interesting, now that I built a kernel with it......
[05:09] <DanaG> ... but Plymouth doesn't work, for some reason.
[05:18] <xtknight> pulseaudio messing up for anyone else?  the new time scheduling mechanism or w/e...... at first tsched=0 fixed it for me, but no longer.  my audio skips.  and now i don't even know where to find the pulseaudio logs
[06:06] <xtknight> why does vlc use alsa when pulseaudio is the default in jaunty?
[06:07] <xtknight> i have to say.......this sound stuff is quite a mess :O
[06:11] <DanaG> gnome-terminal:
[06:11] <DanaG> Failed to contact the GConf daemon; exiting.
[06:21] <DanaG> goddamnit, openoffice won't save to fat32.
[06:21] <DanaG> Error saving the document <document name>"
[06:21] <DanaG> Object not accessible.  The object cannot be accessed due to insufficient user rights."
[06:21] <DanaG> W------T---------F?
[06:29] <sjanssen> so is unclutter now active by default in jaunty?  How do I turn this off?
[06:31] <Hobbsee> unclutter?
[06:32] <sparr> Is the python package currently broken in jaunty?
[06:32] <sjanssen> Hobbsee: yes, the executable and packaged named 'unclutter'.  It makes the mouse pointer disappear after a period of inactivity
[06:34] <Hobbsee> sjanssen: oh.  It's not by default, although it is in main
[06:35] <sjanssen> ah, I've figured it out
[06:36] <sjanssen> apparently the new version of unclutter adds a file in /etc/X11/Xsession.d that starts it automatically.  This is a poor decision, IMO
[06:37] <Hobbsee> well, if you've deliberately installed it, why shouldn't it automatically start?
[06:37] <Hobbsee> it doesn't have any reverse dependancies, at all
[06:37] <sparr> I am getting this error when trying to upgrade python 2.6  http://rafb.net/p/G2oBpa98.html
[06:37] <Hobbsee> or at least, according to my system.
[06:37] <lanoxx> hi, where should i file bugs against help.ubuntu.com?
[06:37] <sjanssen> Hobbsee: it is a notoriously broken program and I develop a window manager, I have it around for testing purposes
[06:37] <Hobbsee> lanoxx: under the 'ubuntu-website' project on launchpad.net
[06:38] <Hobbsee> sjanssen: ahhh.
[06:38] <lanoxx> Hobbsee, thx
[06:38] <sjanssen> it seems silly that installation should imply automatic use -- especially when there doesn't seem to be any way to disable without removing random files in /etc
[06:39] <Hobbsee> removing the package again to stop using it doesn't work?
[06:39]  * Hobbsee is still unsure why it's in main at all
[06:39] <sjanssen> Hobbsee: sure, that works
[06:39] <sjanssen> Hobbsee: but isn't it silly for me to install and uninstall it every time I want to use it for just a few minutes?
[06:40] <Hobbsee> it probalby is.  OTOH, i'm not sure most people use it for short periods of time.
[06:41] <Hobbsee> how strange.  It should have dropped out of main, i'd expect
[06:42] <Amaranth> oh jeez
[06:42] <sjanssen> Hobbsee: IIRC it hasn't been maintained upstream for something like ten years
[06:42] <Amaranth> sjanssen: does it have the same bug where after the cursor comes back animated cursors are sized 1x1 pixel?
[06:43] <lanoxx> Hobbsee, should i file bugs about outdated pages there too?
[06:43] <Hobbsee> lanoxx: yes, i think so
[06:43] <lanoxx> alright
[06:43] <Amaranth> compiz ezoom gets that if you zoom the cursor due to some bug in xfixes
[06:44] <sparr> sadly that python upgrade problem is blocking hundreds of other packages
[06:50] <sparr> why doesn't an ubuntu upgrade ever install new nvidia drivers?  i always end up at a console after rebooting and have to install them myself
[07:27] <DanaG> oh yeah, with accelerated ati driver, the notify-osd no longer lags so horribly.
[07:29] <rww> I'm loving the new ATI drivers. I can watch videos without ridiculous flickering problems now <3
[07:29] <DanaG> I just wish they had some friggin' power savings.
[07:29] <rww> I assume it was the -ati update that did that, anyway, since it didn't used to work and now does.
[07:30]  * DanaG happens to have R600.
[07:30] <DanaG> oh yeah, you have tormodvolden's PPA enabled?
[07:30] <rww> DanaG: nope. the jaunty repos got a snapshot of the new -ati drivers today
[07:50] <lucent> discovered data corruption issue with ext4 on Jaunty
[07:51] <lucent> anyone awake to check me? I submitted a reply to what I think is the relevant LK bug tracker report
[07:51] <lucent> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12821
[07:54] <sparr> python upgrade problems resolved by removing the offending packages, libboost-python-dev libboost-dbg pitivi
[07:55] <DanaG> I ran into some corruption today when compiling a kernel.... all the compiled files had corrupt descriptors in some group.
[07:55] <DanaG> Particularly aggravating was
[07:55] <DanaG> Particularly aggravating was the
[07:55] <DanaG> Particularly aggravating was the fact
[07:55] <lucent> ?
[07:56] <DanaG> ... was the fact that, like I just did with my sentence...
[07:56] <DanaG> .... it went back to the start after each SINGLE error fix.
[07:56] <DanaG> 0->80%, back to 0->80.1%
[07:56] <lucent> well what was in dmesg?
[07:57] <DanaG> oh, I don't remember now... lemme dig it up.
[07:58] <DanaG> Oh, I remember....
[07:58] <DanaG> it was, some file referred to unused inode X in group Y, where X was a large (as expected) number.
[07:59] <DanaG> or rather, referred to inode X in unused inodes table of Group Y.
[08:39] <sjanssen> does the version of Pidgin packaged with Jaunty apply any patches that modify its window close behavior?  How do I go about figuring this out?
[08:42] <ikonia> sjanssen: download the source package from jaunty repos and look at the patch files
[08:47] <Lounge> i've been reading about ext4's delayed allocation and the zero-length file problem on reddit. might this be the reason why teh latest kernel update goes into panic when mountin my ext4 system?
[08:50] <Lounge> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/846ih/ext4_delayed_allocation_and_the_zerolength_file/
[08:59] <Eruaran> I'm using Ext4
[08:59] <Eruaran> Haven't seen any panics
[09:00] <cwillu> Lounge, no, a kernel panic would be a different issue
[09:01] <cwillu> bug #317781
[09:01] <cwillu> more relevant than a reddit link :p
[09:02] <crdlb> also, if it works with an older kernel, it's probably not the data
[09:02] <DanaG> heh, bluez changelog.
[09:02] <DanaG>  (LP: #)
[09:03] <Lounge> well i was just wondering about that if the latest kernel-image-2.6.28-9 panic and ext4 are related
[09:07] <beardbar-lap> anyone having issues with dual monitors and the login screen and logoff screens showing up dead center of the two monitors rather then just one
[09:09] <cwillu> chipset?
[09:10]  * crdlb guesses nvidia
[09:10]  * cwillu doesn't presume :p
[09:11] <crdlb> nvidia is the only one that doesn't always get Xinerama hints right nowadays :)
[09:12] <beardbar-lap> ya nvidia 9800gt
[09:12] <cwillu> really?  I don't think I've ever had a 'middle of the screen' issue except where an app didn't acknowledge the existence of xinerama (i.e., did the same thing on ati/intel)
[09:12] <DanaG> MASQUERADE: lo ate my IP address
[09:12] <DanaG> MASQUERADE: lo ate my IP address
[09:12] <DanaG> MASQUERADE: lo ate my IP address
[09:12] <DanaG> MASQUERADE: lo ate my IP address
[09:12] <cwillu> unless
[09:12] <DanaG> MASQUERADE: lo ate my IP address
[09:13] <crdlb> um
[09:13] <DanaG> .... what exactly does that mean?
[09:13] <cwillu> beardbar-lap, did you plug in the second monitor after gdm started?
[09:13] <crdlb> we only needed one
[09:13] <DanaG> MMmm, IP address... sounds tasty.
[09:13] <beardbar-lap> im actually in ubuntu+1 i just noticed guys, im on kubuntu 8.10 running kde4.2 sorry
[09:13] <cwillu> beardbar-lap, hold up :p
[09:13] <DanaG> So tasty, it ate it multiple times.  =þ
[09:13] <beardbar-lap> no, its been plugged in
[09:13] <beardbar-lap> the entire time. even during initial setup, this is a fresh install
[09:13] <cwillu> beardbar-lap, nvidia's xinerama extension isn't enabled unless you had it configured at x start
[09:13] <crdlb> yep, that's the usual problem with nvidia
[09:14] <cwillu> hmm, dunno then
[09:14] <crdlb> they haven't taken the changes in XRandR 1.2's version to make it truly dynamic
[09:14] <beardbar-lap> you had me at hold up, inspired my dreams of a fix and then left me on the side of road, a love lost :( hehe
[09:15] <crdlb> beardbar-lap: xdpyinfo -ext XINERAMA| grep -i head
[09:15] <ActionParsnip1> is alpha 6 release only a few days old?
[09:16] <beardbar-lap> crdlb: head #0: 3840X1200 @ 1920,0 head#1: 1920X1200 @ 0,0
[09:17] <crdlb> whoa
[09:17] <beardbar-lap> running 3 monitors 28inch samsung sync, and 2 24inch samsungsyncs
[09:17] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f2beb2a3b
[09:17] <crdlb> do you really have a 3840px wide monitor? :P
[09:17] <DanaG> my xrandr
[09:18] <crdlb> nvidia seems to be screwing it up
[09:18] <crdlb> it's making head 0 the width of both of them, which would obviously screw up any apps trying to use that info
[09:18] <crdlb> oh, 3 monitors?
[09:18] <beardbar-lap> ya 3 monitors, 2 on one card, 1 on another, both are 9800Gt nvidias
[09:19] <crdlb> so I guess the other card is its own screen?
[09:19] <crdlb> and that's the 28-incher?
[09:19] <beardbar-lap> exactly right
[09:19] <beardbar-lap> no its actually the 24,
[09:19] <crdlb> I wonder if that's somehow confusing the nvidia driver
[09:19] <beardbar-lap> i wanted my 28 in the middle and the 24inces on the sides.
[09:20] <crdlb> oh, I figured you'd have the two small ones on the same GPU
[09:20] <crdlb> but I guess they're the same resolution anyway?
[09:20] <beardbar-lap> ya same reso
[09:20] <beardbar-lap> all 1920X1200
[09:20] <crdlb> can I have one?
[09:21] <UbuntuUserDK> Hi. Is anyone having trouble with the screensaver after updating today? On my system the windows freezes
[09:21] <crdlb> anyway, my original description of the problem was correct
[09:21] <crdlb> since the xinerama hints only apply to that one screen
[09:21] <crdlb> the third monitor is out of the picture (unless it's somehow triggering a bug in the nvidia driver)
[09:21] <beardbar-lap> any suggestions on a course of action?
[09:22] <crdlb> you could ask #nvidia
[09:22] <beardbar-lap> theres an actual channel hehe, checking it out, hey thanks crdlb, even when i was in the wrong room.
[09:27] <UbuntuUserDK> Okay, I no one has experienced this, I guess I should report it as a bug
[09:35] <chronographer> anyone else think the removal of ctrl-alt-backspace was bad?
[09:35] <chronographer> What is suggested replacement?
[09:35] <ActionParsnip1> chronographer: you can reinstate it
[09:36] <lucent> chronographer: I am not a fan of disabling zap
[09:36] <chronographer> yeah. is there a suggested replacement though? what happens when the game I run break and I can't get bac kto the desktop?
[09:36] <lucent> chronographer: there's a cli utility to re-enable it
[09:36] <robin0800> chronographer,  you can add it back in xorg.conf
[09:36] <ActionParsnip1> chronographer: just re-enable it in xorg.conf
[09:36] <lucent> robin0800: no need to b0rk around with xorg.conf
[09:36] <crdlb> magic sysrq can be a replacement
[09:37] <lucent> sudo apt-get install dontzap
[09:37] <ActionParsnip1> chronographer: you can disable it in gutsy if you so wish, its not a new feature, just a new default feature
[09:38] <cwillu> chronographer, you ever been on the other side of the phone call that starts "I was zooming in on a picture, and all of a sudden the whole screen went blank."?
[09:38] <lucent> crdlb: I've not seen how SysRq could be used from X11
[09:38] <crdlb> really?
[09:38] <cwillu> lucent, you can put the keyboard into raw mode to force alt-f1 to work
[09:38] <lucent> oh...
[09:38] <crdlb> sysrq+r for switching vts, or sysrq+k to kill X
[09:38] <cwillu> the 'r' in 'reisub'
[09:38] <lucent> isn't Alt+SysRq trapped by X11 though?
[09:38] <crdlb> no
[09:38] <chronographer> sudo apt-get install dontzap <- sounds good
[09:39] <lucent> alt+SysRq here triggers the screen capture
[09:39] <lucent> heh
[09:41] <crdlb> it should still work
[09:41] <crdlb> or maybe you need shift or something
[09:42] <lucent> nope
[09:42] <lucent> I'd like to know what key combination you are pressing to do this
[09:43]  * crdlb just murdered his X for science
[09:44] <crdlb> alt+sysrq+k
[09:44]  * cwillu gets crdlb a new one
[09:44] <crdlb> where sysrq is printscreen
[09:44] <lucent> kill? okay, what about just switching term
[09:44] <crdlb> r instead of k
[09:44] <cwillu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key - "Kill all processes on the current virtual console (Can be used to kill X and svgalib programs, see below)
[09:45] <cwillu> This was originally designed to imitate a Secure Access Key 	k"
[09:45] <crdlb> it means unraw
[09:45] <lucent> ah!
[09:45] <BUGabundo> lucent: I get screenshot too
[09:45] <lucent> thanks for the info and labrattery
[09:45] <BUGabundo> bug 276056
[09:45]  * lucent lols 
[09:46] <cwillu> BUGabundo, k works though
[09:46] <cwillu> r doesn't, but k does
[09:46] <BUGabundo> ahh
[09:46] <BUGabundo> sure
[09:46] <cwillu> (k will kill the xserver though, don't do it on a whim)
[09:46] <BUGabundo> but REISUB doesn't... yes
[09:46] <lucent> what if I don't need to kill X, and I just need to switch to a virtual console in a hurry?
[09:46] <BUGabundo> eheheh
[09:46] <cwillu> lucent, uh, switch to a virtual console then
[09:46] <crdlb> if your server is in need of unrawing, I'd think it'd work?
[09:46] <BUGabundo> lucent: ctrl alt Fx ?
[09:46] <cwillu> ctrl-alt-f1 still works
[09:46] <BUGabundo> cwillu: not every where
[09:46] <lucent> ctrl+alt+Fn doesn't work when X11 is borked
[09:47] <BUGabundo> some intel and nvidia mess the TTYs
[09:47] <crdlb> right, but that's no different from how it was before dontzap
[09:47] <lucent> point taken.
[09:47] <BUGabundo> yep same thing
[09:49] <cwillu> crdlb, sysrq doesn't work if I killall -STOP Xorg
[09:49] <cwillu> sysrq-r rather.  -k works fine
[09:49] <crdlb> hmm, that sucks :/
[10:06] <CosmiChaos> Hehe Linus hopes to to go stable next release... ;)
[10:06] <BUGabundo> yea right
[10:07] <lucent> which Linus and what stable?
[10:07] <CosmiChaos> the famous one and the kernel one
[10:08] <lucent> oh .29
[10:08] <CosmiChaos> yes maybe with a bit luck well see a stable .29 next week
[10:08] <lucent> you're waiting on .29 for some development?
[10:09] <CosmiChaos> no just for monitoring developement
[10:09] <ikonia> not this again
[10:09] <CosmiChaos> currently im very interested in .30
[10:10] <CosmiChaos> ikonia: me stfu? :)
[10:10] <virtuald> do you follow lkml?
[10:10] <ikonia> well, thats harsh
[10:10] <lucent> I want T.Tso's patch for dumb people applied
[10:10] <CosmiChaos> i follow the daily digest as far (bit) as i can and read lkml release notes
[10:10] <lucent> there's a tendancy for software authors to write really crappy code, and ext4 exposes the design flaws
[10:11] <lucent> it cripples ext4-as-root on Jaunty installs
[10:11] <CosmiChaos> lucent: what do you mena by that i installed on ext4 and using ext4 on all of my drives, still no data loss
[10:11] <lucent> CosmiChaos: mostly on power loss
[10:11] <CosmiChaos> i even tried copying files and hardresetting
[10:11] <CosmiChaos> ;)
[10:11] <lucent> which is a common event for desktops
[10:12] <CosmiChaos> yes i know, i have no losses for months with sometimes power losses
[10:12] <lucent> I've been bitten by ext4 related dataloss no fewer than a dozen times since Jaunty alpha 3
[10:13] <lucent> there are some bizarre code paths that you have to hit to trigger the problems
[10:13] <lucent> I am just lucky to hit these code paths?
[10:13]  * lucent :(
[10:13] <CosmiChaos> O.O.o i converted all my storage 3 days ago ;)
[10:14] <CosmiChaos> seems like me is not using any of those related coded programms
[10:14] <crdlb> and this is why I don't use new filesystems
[10:14] <CosmiChaos> till now im a lucky btch
[10:14] <lucent> at the moment I have an 1TB ext4 volume which is experiencing somewhat-reproducable data loss on a 50GB bittorrent download
[10:15] <lucent> if I leave Transmission running for longer than an hour or so, there's a scary message in dmesg and sync() no longer completes
[10:16] <lucent> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12821
[10:16] <CosmiChaos> lucent: as far as i can tell, my / root partition is on ext4 and has no dataloss under sometimes heavy power losses, and my storages are most of the time shut down because they are filed up completely with media
[10:16] <CosmiChaos> :)
[10:17] <CosmiChaos> took me lonk nights to get the fragmented NTFS to ext4
[10:17] <lucent> I think you're just not pushing it hard enough yet
[10:17] <CosmiChaos> what can i do?
[10:17] <CosmiChaos> :D
[10:18] <CosmiChaos> any reproducablility, should i try downloading some torrents?
[10:18] <lucent> well, how many files are on the volume?
[10:18] <CosmiChaos> the 465GiB is ehm 550 files, full
[10:18] <lucent> also was this some ext2/3 volume that you mounted as ext4, or was it formatted as ext4?
[10:18] <CosmiChaos> the 372 is 1/3 full
[10:19] <CosmiChaos> no i installed alpha 5 on clean new partitions with ext4
[10:19] <lucent> mine is "21,227 items, totalling 371.3 GB"
[10:19] <CosmiChaos> i removed NTFS completely and created new ext4
[10:19] <CosmiChaos> and transfered all my data
[10:20] <lucent> yeah it's probably okay if it wrote out cleanly
[10:20] <CosmiChaos> i swaped them out, since i have 3 drives for storage
[10:20] <lucent> I don't have any problems yet *reading* data
[10:21]  * lucent just notices something
[10:21] <CosmiChaos> kernel option profile is one of the tasks i often do tough it writes alot to hdd
[10:21] <lucent> hope it's not confusing that my name Eric Shattow is similar looking to Eric Sandeen on the above bug report
[10:22] <lucent> CosmiChaos: there will be no mistaking it if the bug bites you, shit stops working and you can't cleanly shut down
[10:22] <CosmiChaos> lucent: but i will of course try out some torrents, did you say one 50gb torrent??
[10:23] <lucent> I've hit a lot of different torrents that worked just fine
[10:23] <CosmiChaos> lucent: then ill pray to eris that only /root is affected
[10:24] <lucent> the "problem" torrent does save several large files (10-15gb ea)
[10:24] <CosmiChaos> regularly i dont suck blueray :DD
[10:24] <BUGabundo> lucent: never saw transmission lossing data... deluge is quite common on that!
[10:24] <lucent> else I have completed without issue a 79gb total data torrent, where files are mid-size (less than 5 gb ea)
[10:25] <CosmiChaos> lets reboot few times and when screen changes to login just hit reset on and on until its broke, or what??? :D
[10:25] <lucent> CosmiChaos: what does "regularly i dont suck"
[10:25] <lucent> I'm confused
[10:25] <BUGabundo> I find it funny that Tso says xfs suffers from the same prob as ext4
[10:25] <lucent> eh he's opinionated
[10:26] <BUGabundo> but I've been using xfs on this laptop for an year, and 2y before why on the old laptop, and never noticed it
[10:26] <CosmiChaos> what do you have on harddisk that is greater than 10gb except backup files and i assume you not to save backups on new filesystems ;)
[10:26] <lucent> the real problem is morons who write software incorrectly
[10:26] <lucent> CosmiChaos: MAME LaserDisc CHDs?
[10:26] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: yes ReiserFS is known for the same data losses
[10:26] <lucent> I'm preserving video game ROMs
[10:27] <BUGabundo> again I had a 500GBs disk on reiserFS with ZERO data loss luckly
[10:27] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: nearly all performance tuned filesystem lack for that bug
[10:27] <BUGabundo> CosmiChaos: I understand
[10:27] <BUGabundo> I read the report and understood how it works
[10:28] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: i have 5 ext4 partitions on bleeding edge alpha 64bit, data losses, not for me it seems
[10:28] <BUGabundo> no power failures (or simulates) ?
[10:28] <BUGabundo> hi Hew
[10:28] <lucent> no power failure is needed to trigger data loss on ext4
[10:28] <Hew> hey BUGabundo
[10:28] <CosmiChaos> of course sometimes my gpu freezes the sys, i hardreset
[10:28] <lucent> just uh... whatever issue I am having
[10:29] <CosmiChaos> or a game freezes dont know or wine
[10:29] <BUGabundo> lucent: actually it is!
[10:29] <CosmiChaos> i often have to reset power
[10:29] <lucent> no sir
[10:29] <lucent> data is lost due to some bug here
[10:29] <BUGabundo> CosmiChaos: even on ALPHAs I rarelly do it! REISUB tends to help
[10:29] <lucent> no power loss involed
[10:29] <lucent> *involved
[10:29] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: do what?
[10:30] <BUGabundo> lucent: acording to Tso data lost happens when cache is not dumped to disk... ONLY
[10:30] <BUGabundo> CosmiChaos: hard reboot
[10:30] <lucent> BUGabundo: different bug here
[10:30] <BUGabundo> ahh
[10:30] <BUGabundo> what is your bug then?
[10:30] <CosmiChaos> but same symptomatics doesnt it
[10:31] <lucent> BUGabundo: someone fucked up in the ext4 code, but it's extremely unfathomable that anyone would actually reach the corresponding code path in actual life
[10:31] <lucent> I just happened to be triggering it
[10:31] <lucent> even I have no idea how to reproduce the circumstance, other than "do X and wait Y minutes"
[10:31] <CosmiChaos> and isnt it a problem that only occurs because reiser cashes internally and on power losses not have the data written and the files beeing empty
[10:31] <lucent> it happens about half the time I am downloading with Transmission a particular torrent
[10:32] <CosmiChaos> lucent: will you say ext4 is crippley for a mans lifetime, do i understand that right?
[10:32] <lucent> I'm saying that it has a data loss bug not related to molly
[10:33] <CosmiChaos> who is molly? :)
[10:33] <lucent> there is no molly involved in my case
[10:33] <jagez> this conversation is surreal
[10:33] <BUGabundo> open a bug and let Tso know about it then!
[10:33] <lucent> molly is the little girl who runs around your office and flips the power switches!
[10:33] <lucent> no molly here!
[10:33]  * CosmiChaos is googling about "molly", what might that be, molotov cocktail?
[10:34] <lucent> look for maybe "molly guard"
[10:34] <CosmiChaos> to much results
[10:35] <lucent> well it means thata person is accidentally tripping over a power switch
[10:35] <BUGabundo> lucent: provide correct link... we are too lazy
[10:35] <lucent> it's in the jargon file
[10:36] <lucent> here there is no molly, no unintended power interruption
[10:36] <lucent> that's what I am meaning
[10:36] <CosmiChaos> you mean the roomcleaner to unplug your mainservers power cable to plugin the vacuum cleaner?
[10:36] <lucent> CosmiChaos: yes
[10:36] <lucent> very accurately, yes
[10:37] <CosmiChaos> ok sry that wasnt coloquial for me
[10:38]  * BUGabundo don't start with cleaning ladies!!!! grrrr
[10:38] <BUGabundo> ola joaopinto
[10:38] <joaopinto> ola BUGabundo
[10:41] <CosmiChaos> will i crash in some tunnel with on my high speed-ext4 train, lets disble brakes, how to tune ext4. on ext3 i could reproduce data losses on Data=Writeback, can i apply that for ext4 O.o
[10:42] <brinstar> CosmiChaos: out of interest, how much faster is ext4
[10:43] <brinstar> than ext3
[10:43] <lucent> holy crap....  sudo filefrag /media/ESTBStorageA/Datasets/MAME/LD-CHD/usvsthem/usvsthem.chd
[10:43] <lucent> /media/ESTBStorageA/Datasets/MAME/LD-CHD/usvsthem/usvsthem.chd: 125592 extents found
[10:43] <CosmiChaos> brinstar: quite a bit, subjectively, i have not measuered, but boot time decreased, writeing slightly increased and deleting vastly increased
[10:43] <brinstar> ok
[10:43] <BUGabundo> guys gonna be away for a bit... have to get work done! ping if something urgent comes up
[10:44] <jaunty_newbie> Hi, I am facing problems that I had to upgrade to 2.6.28 and choose to install it from jaunty but now I messed my system, the keyboard is not working in GUI though works in console and the network interfaces cannot be used, I now either try to upgrade to fully to jaunty or recover back to my old system, how and what plessssssssssssssse?
[10:44] <CosmiChaos> i mean writing slightly decreased and deleting vastly decreased ( all three beeing faster)
[10:44] <lucent> what is "plessssssssssssssse" word mean?
[10:44] <CosmiChaos> brinstar:
[10:45] <lucent> is your keyboard broken?
[10:45] <brinstar> CosmiChaos:  got it
[10:45] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: yes the kb is brokkken
[10:45] <CosmiChaos> lucent: is it possible to check the partition with filefrag?
[10:45] <lucent> CosmiChaos: huh?  partition with filefrag?
[10:46] <lucent> filefrag reports on filesystem, not partition
[10:46] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: open it, clean it, close it :)
[10:46] <lucent> see filefrag(8)
[10:47] <CosmiChaos> lucent: i mean to show me a list of all fragmented files of one partition
[10:47] <lucent> CosmiChaos: it's meant to aid developers, not print a cheese wheel
[10:47] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: the matter is serious can you please show some sympathy with my situation instead of laughing at me
[10:47] <lucent> so, I don't think so
[10:47] <brinstar> is it fairly straightforward to install intrpid and jaunty side-by-side while i test jaunty?
[10:47] <scizzo-> lucent: correction "what does "plessssssse" mean?" not what is... haha
[10:48] <scizzo-> brinstar: use virtualbox?
[10:48] <scizzo-> brinstar: would be the easiest to work with
[10:48] <brinstar> scizzo-: hmm maybe
[10:48] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: you only upgraded the kernel in intrepid?
[10:48] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: i dont laugh, i smiled, i mean it for real: clean it, its not that hard to redo coffee-accidents or similar
[10:48] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: that is....using jaunty kernel in intrepid installation?
[10:49] <jaunty_newbie> scizzo-: yes
[10:49] <brinstar> :)
[10:49] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: okie dokie...now...are you using a xorg file also?
[10:49] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: I don't know how
[10:49] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: /etc/X11/xorg.conf example
[10:50] <jaunty_newbie> scizzo-: I didn't upgrade the xserver so it should be the old one, I guess, do you want me to pastebin it?
[10:51] <CosmiChaos> why do you tell him to configurate his keyboard
[10:51] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: my question would simply be if you have the old kernel for intrepid still installed.....boot into that and see if you can get into GUI with keyboard working properly
[10:51] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: are you using that keyboard right now?
[10:51] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: I am not...
[10:51] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: I am trying to at first hand find the problem to why this happens
[10:52] <jaunty_newbie> scizzo-: yes I tried that but still same problem, may be because udev is upgraded in the process?
[10:52] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: after that determine the proper way to fix the issue
[10:52] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: I booted from intrepid live and connected to you
[10:52] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: and it works in console?
[10:52] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: i have never seen a configuration or driver problem counting 1 key as say 20, thats mostly a broblem of dirty keyboard :D
[10:52] <jaunty_newbie> scizzo-: yes
[10:53] <robin0800> where is the options file for modprobe I need to amend it?
[10:53] <CosmiChaos> i guess the "s" is stucking
[10:53] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: if _YOU_ can point me to where I have asked him to configure the keyboard then please show me
[10:53] <lucent> most modules are compiled in now
[10:53] <lucent> robin0800: which module?
[10:54] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: wow....thats really something
[10:54] <lucent> robin0800: first step is decide if your module is a module, or is it compiled in
[10:54] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: why did you only get the kernel btw?
[10:55] <robin0800> ipw2200 need to activate led on laptop
[10:55] <jaunty_newbie> scizzo-: because of a regression in the -27 kernel that renders my WSUB54GC now working
[10:55] <jaunty_newbie> *WUSB54GC
[10:56] <lucent> robin0800: I suggest a kernel arg, and/or /etc/modprobe.d/your_new_file
[10:56] <jaunty_newbie> scizzo-: how stable is jaunty now, do you suggest I download a copy and upgrade?
[10:56] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: something interesting would be to see what the logfile says when you boot and when you start X
[10:56] <CosmiChaos> lol the kernel causing stucking key, thats a good one i have to remember :)
[10:56] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: I wouldn't have suggested to only install the kernel anyways.....since that might cause problems
[10:57] <robin0800> lucent:  what would i put in a kernal argument
[10:57] <lucent> robin0800: modulename.modulearg=value
[10:57]  * scizzo- is not saying its the kernel either
[10:57] <scizzo-> still looking into what is causing the issue
[10:58] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: how old is that keyboard?
[10:59] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: have you had experienced similar bugs with that keyboard before jaunty(-kernel)
[11:00] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos, scizzo-: http://pastebin.ca/1359768
[11:01] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: it's a dell studio 1535 laptop and the problem is not the keyboard. btw I am just kidding when I said the ssssssss is because of a broken kb but I guess you know that
[11:03] <CosmiChaos> no i didn't i thought that was the main point
[11:03] <CosmiChaos> can ou please repeat whats your problem?
[11:05] <lucent> robin0800: you got that alright? I can give an example if needed
[11:06] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: I install jaunty kernel in intrepid and I remember udev is also upgrade and now when I boot in either my intrepid or jaunty kernel and had kdm I cannot type and cannot use my touchpad, but if I ctrl+alt+f1 I can use the keyboard but ifconfig shows my ethernet cannot be upped
[11:06] <lucent> -GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
[11:06] <lucent> +GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash pciehp.pciehp_force=1"
[11:06] <lucent> something like this in /etc/default/grub
[11:06] <lucent> I use that because pciehp is built into the kernel now and my pci expresscard slot doesn't work otherwise
[11:07] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: I pasted my X log and it contains lines like Cannot locate a core keyboard device
[11:07] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: so scizzo-was right, im sry. watch the file /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[11:07] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: could be APIC issues
[11:07] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: i watched your log and saw that line
[11:07] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: so I try to boot with noapic?
[11:08] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: please take my advice mate, don't waste everyone's time with a half-installed OS. The Jaunty kernels DO NOT WORK with other releases of Ubuntu, period.
[11:08] <lucent> just stop going down that path because it will not work.
[11:08] <lucent> is your problem appearing with a stable version of Ubuntu?
[11:09] <lucent> try a full install of Intrepid
[11:09] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: yes I accept that advice and now I am asking you how I can rollback or is it better to download a fresh jaunty and upgrade?
[11:09] <lucent> there is no way to roll back.
[11:09] <lucent> end of story on that
[11:09] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: ok how stable is jaunty now? can I live with it?
[11:09] <CosmiChaos> jaunty for this case it is good to have a backup of your personal files, and settings ~/.*
[11:09] <lucent> it *is* marked Alpha for a reason?
[11:10] <lucent> CosmiChaos: don't forget /var
[11:10] <lucent> the new ecryptfs crap lives in /var now
[11:10] <lucent> not to mention mail spool etc
[11:10] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: the last time I tried alpha version of ubuntu it's very stable and this is why I am asking.
[11:10] <CosmiChaos> what does craps life mean?
[11:10] <CosmiChaos> craps lives i mean
[11:11] <lucent> sorry to get frustrated and just speak my mind everyone, I'm tired of hearing about this bickering over lost keyboard interrupts and shit
[11:11] <lucent> CosmiChaos: "crap" is a swear word I say it to mean "Any thing"
[11:11] <lucent> I'm just upset because this is going no where
[11:11] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: use something stable, please
[11:11] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: ok thanks man
[11:12]  * scizzo- thought this was a support for jaunty channel....might be mistaken
[11:12] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: if you're feeling adventurous later, take a full backup of your systems and THEN go venture out into a full Alpha 6 jaunty install
[11:12] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: developement channel != support-channel :)
[11:13] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: btw the alternate cd seems broken to me, I would stick to the desktop installer and don't try anything weird like ext4 or ecryptfs
[11:13] <CosmiChaos> btw it is nithe rboth it is a "discussion channel"
[11:13] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: I promise you'll get a better start for it
[11:13] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: its impossible to speak with you.....
[11:14] <lucent> scizzo-: /ignore works well
[11:14] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: what have i done?
[11:15] <scizzo-> jaunty_newbie: I agree with lucent btw....a jaunty kernel in a intrepid system or any mixed kernel thingy in other systems is not a good idea.....if you want to use later kernels and such you should try to find backports instead
[11:15] <jaunty_newbie> scizzo-: yes i learned this the hard way unfortunately
[11:15] <lucent> yeah it's not a terrible idea, but it just ends up being a terrible idea when it fails, sorry you find out like this way
[11:15] <lucent> :)
[11:16] <lucent> from Intrepid going towards => Jaunty;   there are some big decisions and changes made in kernel config
[11:17] <lucent> the modules are being compiled in whenever possible, the initramfs works differently, the udev works differently, there's watershed which is split from udev... so many things
[11:17] <lucent> it will break earlier Ubuntu installs just to try
[11:20] <lucent> my personal axe to grind is the decision to compile in ipv6
[11:20] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: since I would backup my system and install intrepid from scratch, i won't to try something before that. I would upgrade to jaunty from the livecd just to learn more lessons and play a bit, can i just chroot sda1; update-manager -d?
[11:21] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: I really suggest making a backup of $HOME to offline media and doing a complete fresh install
[11:21] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: so you don't suggest I try chroot even for fun?
[11:22] <lucent> I don't consider possible data loss "fun"
[11:22] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: no I have a backup outside now
[11:22] <fyl0n> Asus 1000H with Kubuntu alpha 6 wifi not completly working.. open ap is no problem but an ap with a key isn't working..?
[11:22] <CosmiChaos> jaunty wait i have a sets of commands
[11:23] <lucent> the only supported upgrade path will be Intrepid -> Jaunty
[11:23] <lucent> the alphas are not supported.
[11:23] <lucent> unless you *really know what it is you are doing* then I do not suggest any action different from a full install
[11:23] <jaunty_newbie> lucent: aha! thanks
[11:24] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: 'sudo sed -i -e “s/intrepid/jaunty/g” /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y'
[11:24] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: i wont take any warranty for that ;)
[11:25] <lucent> apt-get doesn't handle dist-upgrade correctly
[11:25] <lucent> I advise strongly AGAINST doing the above
[11:25] <lucent> even aptitude only gets it mostly correct
[11:25] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: beside I cannot connect to the net from that system. I suggested chroot and lucent is against it and I accept that
[11:26] <CosmiChaos> jaunty_newbie: why dont you ask your momme?
[11:26] <lucent> jaunty_newbie: bug reports against the installer are quite valuable
[11:27] <lucent> in the scope of helping out Ubuntu, a fresh install is best :)
[11:27] <jaunty_newbie> CosmiChaos: ?!
[11:27] <CosmiChaos> lucent: what exactly is apt-get dist-upgrade doing wrong?
[11:27] <lucent> CosmiChaos: why are you still using apt-get ?
[11:27] <CosmiChaos> of course it is best, lucent, but he has a installtion so why dont give it a try, his files are backed up
[11:28] <CosmiChaos> lucent: because sometimes you have tu use console to do upgrades
[11:28] <lucent> "give it a try" I do not have time to waste on computer problems that make no sense.
[11:28] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: that is why do-release-upgrade exists
[11:28] <CosmiChaos> lucent: but you have the time to tell anyone doing the easiest most secure way
[11:28] <CosmiChaos> goodboy
[11:29] <robin0800> lucent: ipw2200.led=1 works but grub complains its an unknown boot option so where should I put it?
[11:29] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: so everytime i wanna check for regular updates i do "do-release-upgrade"? cant believe that
[11:29] <lucent> robin0800: glad to hear good progress! yay
[11:30] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: everything depends on _how_ you want to upgrade and to what you want to upgrade
[11:30] <lucent> robin0800: I stuffed mine in /etc/default/grub... would you mind pastebin'ing that file for me to look at?
[11:30] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: at least in Debian and Ubuntu based systems
[11:30] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: so waht is missing with apt-get dist-upgrade again
[11:31] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: there are other thing that the ubuntu upgrade is doing that dist-upgrade does not
[11:31] <CosmiChaos> of course it does not update your distribution if the your sources.lst is not configured ;)
[11:31] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: seems that you cant name one single one ......
[11:32] <lucent> apt-get is fine for changing the package selections on a few programs, it is not good to use for system wide upgrades as it fails on many circular dependancies
[11:32] <lucent> nevermind my spellings for certain words :(
[11:32] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-:  do you mean the button showing "you have to restart your system"
[11:32] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: ubuntu specific configurations, deps etc are examples
[11:32] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: no
[11:32] <robin0800> lucent: its not a file just added to menu.lst for grub at present
[11:32] <scizzo-> and I need to eat now
[11:33] <scizzo-> see you all after lunch
[11:33] <CosmiChaos> apt-get always fit my dependencies, its more slim because it does not install all suggested packages
[11:33] <lucent> robin0800: I modified /etc/default/grub and then I ran "update-grub"
[11:34] <lucent> robin0800: I do have grub2 installed so it may be slightly different, that's why I ask for your /etc/default/grub
[11:34] <robin0800> lucent: don't have that file
[11:34] <lucent> oh huh
[11:34] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: what any meta-packages mentiones as dependency might not be a true dependency
[11:35] <lucent> robin0800: I forgot how it used to be done, sorry
[11:35] <lucent> robin0800: maybe it was a comment in menu.lst KOPT="blah blah" something?
[11:35] <lucent> robin0800: could you pastebin your menu.lst?
[11:36] <CosmiChaos> lucent: scizzo- btw apt is ubuntu maintained so stop telling lies
[11:37]  * lucent face palms
[11:37] <robin0800> lucent: menu.lst http://pastebin.com/m4388a99c
[11:38] <lucent> robin0800: cool, you have the "full" version like I was hoping for, one sec while I grok it
[11:39] <lucent> robin0800: you see the line...  (follows)?
[11:39] <lucent> # kopt=root=UUID=ff9b565b-7a3f-45b3-8941-89805187c6d5 ro lapic hpet=force
[11:39] <robin0800> lucent: yes
[11:39] <lucent> I think this would have to be changed to read
[11:39] <CosmiChaos> lucent: read the package information for apt:  ... tools for APT and DSELECT ... both are easy and secure to install packages and upgrade system...
[11:39] <lucent> # kopt=root=UUID=ff9b565b-7a3f-45b3-8941-89805187c6d5 ro lapic hpet=force ipw2200.led=1
[11:40] <lucent> CosmiChaos: do you want to be /ignore'd?
[11:40] <CosmiChaos> lucent: do you think me cares
[11:41] <lucent> easy enough.
[11:41] <CosmiChaos> stop be read by a lieer
[11:41] <lucent> robin0800: after changing the line and writing out, then run update-grub
[11:42] <CosmiChaos> lucent: scizzo-tell me if you have any valuable argue what apt-get dist-upgrade does wrong that can brake your system
[11:42] <lucent> I guess that in your system with grub1 (presumably) the update-grub is reading from (grubroot)/boot/grub/menu.lst and on my system with grub2, update-grub2 reads from /etc/default/grub
[11:42] <lucent> so explains the advice I gave earlier :P
[11:45] <BUGabundo> compiz question: how to make water effect with mouse move?
[11:46] <lucent> BUGabundo: IMO that effect always crashes my intel graphics, so I never got to make it work
[11:47] <BUGabundo> it used to work
[11:47] <BUGabundo> with ctr+super+mouse
[11:47] <lucent> BUGabundo: basic procedure is to get the ccsm installed and configure it from System | Preferences | Advanced graphics settings
[11:47] <BUGabundo> doesn't now, don't know where to activate it
[11:47] <BUGabundo> already have that
[11:47] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: I am not saying the apt-get will break the system.....or anything like that...I am saying that in a ubuntu system its better to use update-manager or do-release-upgrade because of packages and system wide configurations and tasks
[11:47] <lucent> ah, and there may be another app that is catching that hotkey then
[11:48] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: btw.....apt is developed by both Ubuntu team and Debian
[11:48] <robin0800> lucent: grub still complains don't think position in that line is important
[11:48] <lucent> robin0800: :(
[11:49] <lucent> robin0800: does update-grub complain?  or is it grub
[11:49] <beardbar-lap> crdlb: gave up on 8.10 and the multi monitor issue, decided to put my efforts towards jaunty and bughunt until release. :)
[11:49] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: and for the record I find you very rude in stateing that I am lying.....its offensive
[11:49] <robin0800> lucent: grub at boot time
[11:49]  * lucent hands beardbar-lap some heavy drugs and quiet advice "use in moderation."
[11:50] <BUGabundo> beardbar-lap: you are coming late in the game! been here since November! lol
[11:50] <BUGabundo> Beardbar: wanna help triage my bug queue?
[11:51]  * Beardbar downs the bottle of drugs
[11:51] <Beardbar> oops
[11:51] <lucent> robin0800: okay I'm kind of stuck :(
[11:51]  * Beardbar drinks water, breaths air
[11:51] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: its not the kind of strange bug I have where the Win key on left side of the key board is marked as Suprt+L and Right win key is marked Super only....
[11:52] <lucent> robin0800: it works, but it doesn't work.  At this point I would normally poke the computer with a wooden spoon until it did what I wanted
[11:52] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: that is if  you are using right side of keyboard to do Ctrl+Super+Mouse it works and not on the left side?
[11:52] <lucent> robin0800: i.e. I don't know what else to do
[11:53] <Beardbar> BUGabundo: hehe im the wrong to ask, ive only been back with linux after a 3 year hiatus since yesterday. I was suprised I remembered how to write xorg.conf files gonna take me a few months to get back into the game, so much forgottton
[11:53] <lucent> scizzo-: ugh! the WinKey configuration in Ubuntu is a verifiable headache :(
[11:53] <robin0800> lucent: not to worry grub ignores it but it still works not realy clear why options dissapeared from modprobe and any way IMHO led=1 should be in the driver
[11:53] <scizzo-> lucent: creates some issues in my head for keybinding
[11:53] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: IT IS FACT that you are lying, there are mentiones of apt-get dist-upgrade in the official ubuntu upgrade wikis. dist-upgrade is the same than apt-get upgrade but it additionally installs packages that are DEPENDENDANT so telling that dist-upgrade misses dependencies is a LIE! EOD
[11:54] <BUGabundo> scizzo-: I only have one (its a laptop)
[11:54] <CosmiChaos> fav-heads
[11:54] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: you are so damn rude
[11:54] <lucent> scizzo-: the strange fact is that Xgl (compiz-fusion) traps keys even when it's not active, and instead Metacity is active
[11:54] <BUGabundo> Beardbar: even better! go by the list from older to new ones, and see if they are still valid or reproducable on your jaunty
[11:55] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: ooo well no then not the same problem
[11:55] <BUGabundo> question me on the bug, if you have any question
[11:55] <Beardbar> actually, can someone tell me where to look at the bug queues, where the tracker is etc?
[11:55] <BUGabundo> Beardbar: launchpad.net/ubuntu
[11:55] <BUGabundo>  !bugs
[11:55] <BUGabundo>  !QA
[11:56] <Beardbar> does kubuntu have its own tracker or the same?
[11:56] <scizzo-> lucent: thats....ummm well thats strange.....don't use xgl though
[11:56] <lucent> robin0800: other way would be 'echo "option iwl2200 led=1" > /etc/modprobe.d/tweak-iwl2200-led' and then update-modules
[11:56] <BUGabundo> Beardbar: the packages are the same, so same BTS
[11:56] <lucent> scizzo-: for Gnome desktops anyways, default Ubuntu stuffs
[11:56] <Beardbar> right, duh
[11:56] <scizzo-> lucent: I use the standard setups.....however even though I change the preference to use win keys normally the left key is always Super+L and not only Super
[11:56] <maxb> lucent: modprobe.d files need to end in .conf these days, IIUC
[11:56] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: due to bleeding edge :)
[11:57] <lucent> scizzo-: the various Meta and Mod3 Mod4 incarnations get intercepted, and not to mention Super
[11:57] <lucent> maxb: thanks! I didn't know that changed
[11:57] <lucent> robin0800: okay so maybe it would be 'echo "option iwl2200 led=1" >  /etc/modprobe.d/tweak-iwl2200-led
[11:57] <lucent> .conf'
[11:57] <scizzo-> CosmiChaos: anything else you want to say before I ignore you?
[11:57]  * lucent hands CosmiChaos an /ignore stick
[11:57] <CosmiChaos> not here in this channel ;)
[11:58] <maxb> lucent: modprobe will whine loudly at you to inform you of this, for now :-) (The old naming is deprecated but still works... for now.)
[11:59] <BUGabundo> Beardbar: and try to subscribe to some Mailinglists... most intel comes from there
[11:59]  * CosmiChaos hands lucent a sign "i tells tupid"
[11:59] <BUGabundo> ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-devel-discuss, ubuntu-devel-announce, launchpad-users
[11:59] <lucent> maxb: my last pet peeve (module-related) is the inclusion of ipv6 with no means to disable it
[12:00] <maxb> *shrug*  Nothing to do with me :-)
[12:00] <scizzo-> lucent: really need to understand how those strange keybindings work
[12:00] <lucent> har, yeah I guess I hear that a lot
[12:00] <scizzo-> lucent: since I have a bunch of bindings I want to get working
[12:01] <lucent> scizzo-: I figured it out one day after gouging 4-5 blog posts rambling on the topic
[12:01] <scizzo-> lucent: haha
[12:01] <lucent> since then I've abandoned hope and use the default Ubuntu keybindings as-is
[12:01] <scizzo-> note to self.....use google
[12:01] <CosmiChaos> some of you are really strange in here
[12:02] <Beardbar> BUGabundo: cheers mate
[12:02] <robin0800> lucent: I get permission denied even with sudo
[12:02] <lucent> robin0800: the redirection... mate
[12:02] <lucent> robin0800: try 'sudo su' to get root rights
[12:02] <lucent> then redirection will work
[12:03] <lucent> (full explanation is that if you do sudo somecommand > output_file ;   the somecommand runs as root, and the output of sudo is redirected to output_file as your username not as root)
[12:04] <lucent> so step 1. sudo su    step 2. commandname > output_file   step 3. exit
[12:04] <lucent> there are other ways of doing this as a 1-liner but above is how *I* remember it
[12:05] <danbhfive> other option is to use tee
[12:05] <danbhfive> sudo command | sudo tee output_file I think
[12:05] <lucent> yeah that looks eloquent
[12:05] <danbhfive> :P
[12:06] <CosmiChaos> or  sudo echo bla >  ~/bla.conf && sudo chown root:root bla.conf && sudo cp bla.conf /etc/
[12:07] <lucent> I get freaked out when doing redirection as root user via sudo, that it will ask me for my password and I might get unintended data in the output
[12:07] <BUGabundo> Beardbar: feel free to join us and the gang on http://identi.ca
[12:07] <robin0800> lucent: it would appear that update grub has removed my menu.lst file
[12:08] <lucent> robin0800: sorry, that sholdn't be happening?  is there a grub.conf now?
[12:08] <lucent> (grubroot)/boot/grub/grub.conf
[12:08] <BUGabundo> anybody EVER hear of a laptop (w/ nvidia) fail to boot or show BIOS POST after using ANY ubuntu Live CD?
[12:08] <lucent> BUGabundo: yes
[12:08] <BUGabundo> one of my students yesterday lost her laptop like that
[12:08] <BUGabundo> lucent: really?
[12:08] <BUGabundo> what causes it?
[12:08] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: what do you mean by AFTER livecd?
[12:09] <lucent> BUGabundo: that is a very old and obscure issue, if it is what I sort of fuzzy-recall
[12:09] <CosmiChaos> do you mena it reboot or showing the bios post-splash after starting ubuntu-live-cd O.o
[12:09] <BUGabundo> I wasn't there yet, so I can't be 100% sure
[12:09] <lucent> BUGabundo: laptop brand?
[12:09] <BUGabundo> she said she tested LiveCD, rebooted, and it wouldn't boot again
[12:09] <BUGabundo> lucent: HP
[12:10] <lucent> uhh... HP's and Dells, there was something odd
[12:10] <BUGabundo> CosmiChaos: BLACK screen of DEATH
[12:10] <BUGabundo> didn't work... not on LCD or external VGA
[12:10] <lucent> it's so rare, I'm guessing your student did something like, stupid.
[12:10] <lucent> and human
[12:10] <BUGabundo> 1st time I saw or heard about it
[12:11] <BUGabundo> lucent: is it fixable?
[12:11] <lucent> the bug I'm thinking of was isolinux loading the kernel a certain way, and the kernel did something to the cd drive which triggered a cd firmware hardware bug
[12:11] <lucent> and then machine was dead
[12:11] <BUGabundo> yeah
[12:11] <BUGabundo> that would seem to be it!
[12:11] <lucent> it's akin to having a dead IDE device
[12:12] <lucent> which you know, can fuck things up
[12:12] <lucent> it's unlikely to be this particular bug though, it's so rare
[12:12] <lucent> better bet would be a bad sleep state
[12:12] <lucent> dead battery
[12:12] <lucent> student dropped the laptop and failed to mention that
[12:12] <BUGabundo> naaa
[12:13] <BUGabundo> took power and bat off
[12:13] <BUGabundo> as I said.. I wasn't there
[12:13] <BUGabundo> but there were other students and another teacher
[12:13] <lucent> does the charge controller turn on the LED when a power brick is inserted?
[12:13] <lucent> whatever it is sounds freaky
[12:14] <lucent> my other favored thing is - well, sniff the keyboard
[12:14] <lucent> does it smell like beer?
[12:14] <BUGabundo> eheh
[12:14]  * lucent invokes, "Ah, memories of working for CompUSA as a tech"
[12:14] <BUGabundo> LOL
[12:15]  * BUGabundo have you tried to reboot? no no... the other button!
[12:15]  * CosmiChaos riases lucent palms so everyone can read the sign "i tell stupid"
[12:15] <lucent> "Like, it just stopped working? Like, you know, it was working, here it is, can you fix it? It's not mine so I like, don't know like, what that phone number is?"
[12:16] <lucent> Ma'am, it's not a phone number I'm asking for, it's a serial number...  you do know this thing reeks of cheap beer right?
[12:16] <CosmiChaos> you need some alcohol to get along?
[12:16] <lucent> "like, bud light was cheap - I MEAN BEER? WHAT DO YOU MEAN?"
[12:16] <lucent> heh
[12:18] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: i assume isolinux exploited that biso O.o
[12:19] <lucent> BUGabundo: it's only vaguely possible that cd-firmware-system-death bug happened, more likely is bad RAM, "lo-jack" anti-theft system tripped, or someone dumped a good part of a keg into it
[12:19] <lucent> doesn't quite sound like a bad lcd backlight, you say an external VGA doesn't work
[12:19] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: of course right after inserting a ubuntu cd, he must be right ;)))
[12:20] <lucent> but yeah I've heard of really strange things killing laptops just after an Ubuntu Live CD is booted
[12:20] <BUGabundo> 1st time with something like that
[12:20] <tgpraveen123> lucent: how many times u heard such a thing?
[12:20] <tgpraveen123> scary...
[12:21] <lucent> it was common when ... shit I forget which release
[12:21] <CosmiChaos> so we have a hp laptop, a ubuntu live cd, a known bug, maybe its the memory BUGabundo ;)
[12:21] <lucent> there was an Ubuntu release that killed a thousand Dell machines in a deployment
[12:21] <lucent> long long time ago
[12:22] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: has the laptop got warranty?
[12:23] <lucent> I've *observed* the failure of RAM due to a bootable "live" *nix system
[12:23] <lucent> works one minute, boot live system, reboot, dead.
[12:23] <BUGabundo> not sure
[12:24] <BUGabundo> so, syslinux, fall, memory corruption!
[12:24] <CosmiChaos> dead memory makes the mobo not show any bios post
[12:24] <lucent> huh well the computer is probably fine
[12:24] <BUGabundo> Murphy's Law then?
[12:24] <lucent> failure is most likely human
[12:24] <BUGabundo> or did Ubuntu tricked it into happening ?
[12:24] <tgpraveen123> lucent: woah this is really scary. now i will have to think twice before recommending linux to my friends with laptops
[12:25] <lucent> tgpraveen123: the thousand Dells that failed were desktops btw
[12:25] <BUGabundo> tgpraveen123: I have helped instaling HUNDERDS of PCs and Laptops
[12:25] <lucent> I've only heard of a dozen or so reports of anyone being hit by that on a laptop
[12:25] <BUGabundo> 1st time I saw something like this
[12:25] <lucent> it's so freaky, you just don't worry about it
[12:25] <CosmiChaos> at all failing hardware due to software trigger is nothing special
[12:26] <lucent> it's bad hardware or a human doing something stupid, almost certainly
[12:26] <CosmiChaos> you see this in great exercise on windows ;)
[12:26] <lucent> I've worked personally with volumes enough of hardware to make this observation, FYI
[12:26] <lucent> 100-200 machines / day when I worked for Google
[12:27] <lucent> home users get away with all kinds of crazy unsound shit
[12:28] <lucent> borderline failure RAM, buggy harddrive firmware, invalid ACPI tables, damage from static electric discharge
[12:29] <lucent> just don't suggest that it's the person's fault, let them believe whatever they want to
[12:29] <ha55an> hi, i want to but the jaunty mid image on a cd but i did not manage to, the image comes as .img instead of .iso. i have tried ccd2iso to convert it but could not. any help will be appreciated
[12:29] <lucent> average person hears "hardware is faulty" and they take it as a personal issue
[12:30] <BUGabundo> since you mention Windows and we are already OT (its almost lunch time, so this is hungry talking)
[12:30] <lucent> ha55an: what does 'file (your file).img' have to say about the contents?
[12:31] <BUGabundo> I just hear a report of a client with Vista where a non-admin user manage to remove the execute property from .EXEs to the ALL system. Seems like a SERIOUS MSFT security bug. lets make a virus
[12:32] <lucent> BUGabundo: I'm more concerned about the .desktop vunlerability in Ubuntu
[12:32] <ha55an> lucent: it says, jaunty-mid--lpia.iso: x86 boot sector
[12:32] <lucent> ha55an: okay, that's a... disk image
[12:32] <lucent> not a "disc image" I needto explain with some more words
[12:33] <ha55an> ok
[12:33] <ha55an> klike a ghost image ?
[12:33] <lucent> yes!
[12:33] <lucent> only, it is the whole block device for a partition table
[12:33] <ha55an> do you know ghow to put that on usb stick?
[12:34] <lucent> sort of
[12:34] <ha55an> any pointerrs will be great :)
[12:34] <lucent> how big is the .img file, what capacity is the usb stick?
[12:34] <ha55an> 740 MB
[12:34] <ha55an> the USB is 16 Gb
[12:34] <tgpraveen123> ha55an: the pg from which u downloaded the img file
[12:35] <tgpraveen123> at the bottom of the page is a link to instructions to use this file
[12:35] <ha55an> one second, i will find the page (ubuntu.com)
[12:35] <ha55an> aww
[12:35] <ha55an> let me see
[12:35] <lucent> ha55an: if you "copied" it would not be a file copy, the content of that .img file would replace the partition table on your USB stick
[12:35] <ha55an> should i use dd or something like that?
[12:35] <lucent> yeah but remember it will obliterate and destroy your usb stick, and then replace with that new data
[12:36] <ha55an> sure
[12:36] <lucent> just need to emphasis this for common sense reasons :)
[12:36] <ha55an> ok i got the page
[12:36] <ha55an> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
[12:36] <ha55an> reading is also an art
[12:36] <ha55an> sory for that guys
[12:36] <lucent> ha55an: before you mess with the usb stick, note your C/H/S settings
[12:36] <robin0800> lucent:  thanks it works now, had to rename file to .conf and add # to be the first line
[12:37] <lucent> robin0800: gratz!   sorry I didn't know exactly what to do, glad you've sussed it
[12:37] <ha55an> lucent: i will make sure i do
[12:37] <ha55an> thanks
[12:38] <lucent> ha55an: making a backup of the first 512 bytes is suggested
[12:38] <tgpraveen123> lucent: so u mentioned that u worked for google. so do they use a modified ubuntu there ?
[12:38] <robin0800> lucent: as you are so helpfull how are you on usb?
[12:38] <lucent> tgpraveen123: years ago mate, Ubuntu was pretty young yet then
[12:39] <tgpraveen123> lucent: ok.
[12:39] <Beardbar> how do I tell what graphics chipset I have? I know I have a nvidia 9800gt.
[12:39] <lucent> tgpraveen123: I could talk about it, but everything I remember is now common knowledge :)
[12:40] <lucent> robin0800: depends
[12:40] <lucent> I kind of know what I've done already, and I've had 10+ years to tinker around so that covers a pretty wide range of gadgets
[12:41] <lucent> Beardbar: my favored way is to look up the PCI ID
[12:41] <tiax> Where can I find documentatioin on how to hook into indicator-applet with my own app? Are there python bindings or something?
[12:42] <lucent> lspci -n | grep `lspci | grep Display | awk '{print $1}'`
[12:42] <lucent> something like that
[12:42] <robin0800> lucent: try this all usb bits work except my rockbox'd mp3 player rockbox now has a usb mode this is seen in windows & kde but not gnome
[12:43] <CosmiChaos> will the libav*-unstripped be upgrade, i cannot upgrade ffmpg cause it lacks lependencies
[12:43] <lucent> robin0800: oh, I just happen to have an educated guess about that
[12:43] <lucent> robin0800: Microsoft Transport Protocol (MTP)  vs. MSC mode where you see files and folders
[12:44] <lucent> if your player is set for Auto, it will pick MTP mode and libmtp doesn't quite get it right for a lot of players and the current stable release of libmtp
[12:44] <lucent> robin0800: err... you said rockbox though
[12:45] <lucent> robin0800: try running 'lsusb' after plugging in the player
[12:45] <lucent> for reasons unknown to me, running 'lsusb' makes some devices work after they are plugged in
[12:45] <lucent> elsewise you can try rmmod'ing ehci-hcd if you think it could be a USB 2.0 vs 1.1 issue
[12:46] <makdaknife> hello
[12:47] <makdaknife> I've installed jaunty on a virtualbox to try it out... and I can login, but it looks like plasma crashes constantly... any ideas on how I can troubleshoot it?
[12:47] <lucent> what is plasma?
[12:47] <robin0800> lucent: dosn't see it
[12:47] <lucent> robin0800: tough luck :(
[12:48] <lucent> robin0800: sleepy time for me, please do harass me in a few days on IRC if it's not working, would be interested to learn more
[12:49] <makdaknife> lucent: plasma is a kde4 component
[12:51] <CosmiChaos> will the libav*-unstripped be upgrade, i cannot upgrade ffmpg cause it lacks lependencies
[13:05] <Beardbar> so I downloaded the alpha 6 and went to install, i just get a blank scree, no errors pop up. could find anything on the bug tracker. i let it sit for about 10 minutes
[13:21] <CosmiChaos> Re
[13:22] <CosmiChaos> I installed notify-osd for the new osd in jaunty. i checked notifications-properties. no matter to which corner i set it up, its stays default black at the top right. but it is working in test, but my volume for example is not shown any ideas?
[13:26] <d-b> hi btw if you people have read the alpha6 page there is a bug, it says the latest 1.6 xorg has been used
[13:26] <d-b> .... / included but the latest xorg is 7.4 isn't it ?
[13:26] <d-b>  / 7.3
[13:27] <d-b> ah my fault xorg-server is that yeah
[13:32] <scizzo-> d-b: yes....I was also looking at that once and noticed the version strangeness however xorg is a rather big project. haha
[13:34] <CosmiChaos> can somebody please help me with notify-osd
[13:42] <masu3701> when is jaunty coming out?
[13:42] <a3Dman> 23 august I think
[13:42] <scizzo-> masu3701: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule
[13:43] <masu3701> thnks
[13:44] <scizzo-> a3Dman: you might be thinking of 9.10 or what the release number will be which is october
[13:44] <scizzo-> a3Dman: jaunty is 9.04
[13:45] <a3Dman> err I meant april
[13:45] <a3Dman> sorry
[13:45] <a3Dman> lol
[13:45] <scizzo-> a3Dman: ;)
[13:55] <CosmiChaos> so seems like noone has tried what marc shuttleworth announced for 9.04
[13:56] <CosmiChaos> it completely does not work for me
[13:59] <tgpraveen> CosmiChaos: tried "what"?
[14:00] <d1g1t> notify-osd
[14:04] <BUGabundo> tiax: on the technical details wiki page
[14:05] <tgpraveen> it seems to work fine with me
[14:05] <ikonia> CosmiChaos: tried what ?
[14:05] <tgpraveen> what probrs u facing?
[14:08] <tiax> BUGabundo: sorry, which wiki page?
[14:11] <unixdawg> wich image is the amd kubuntu jaunty image
[14:13] <charlie-tca> This is from the alpha 6 release notes: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/jaunty/alpha-6/
[14:14] <ziroday> Can anyone use any icon theme besides human with notify-osd successfully?
[14:14] <unixdawg> yes but it does not say wich one is kde and wich one is gnome
[14:16] <BUGabundo> tiax: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD/ and
[14:16] <tgpraveen> ziroday:  there is a method to do it it involves copying
[14:16] <BUGabundo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines
[14:16] <ziroday> tgpraveen: link?
[14:16] <tgpraveen> from ur icon to human pack or something the exact command is in the realted forum post in the forums
[14:16] <tgpraveen> in the jaunty section
[14:16] <ziroday> tgpraveen: shall google, thanks!
[14:16] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen: ikonia: notify-osd
[14:17] <tgpraveen> CosmiChaos: now a days it works pretty much as it is shown in mockup what is ur prob specifically/
[14:17] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen: it does not work at all ;)
[14:17] <charlie-tca> unixdawg: that url is Kubuntu releases only, which do not use Gnome
[14:18] <tgpraveen> unixdawg: kubuntu =kde+buntu
[14:18] <unixdawg> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/jaunty/alpha-6/jaunty-desktop-i386.iso
[14:18] <unixdawg> is the gnome desktop
[14:19] <unixdawg> I pulled it last night
[14:19] <charlie-tca> unixdawg: correct
[14:19] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen: i installed the package and now for example my regular volume OSD notification is lost nothing new came across, altough the notification-properties shows the correct preview
[14:19] <unixdawg> and it was not kde
[14:19] <charlie-tca> so, go to the url I gave you, which is kubuntu
[14:19] <Beardbar> wow
[14:19] <tgpraveen> CosmiChaos: installed?? u r using jaunty right?
[14:20] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen: thats right of course
[14:20] <CosmiChaos> tgpreview: yes installed sudo apt-get install notify-osd
[14:21] <tgpraveen> CosmiChaos: why would u need to install it. it comes by default in jaunty.
[14:21] <Beardbar> i left for 10 minutes to make coffee and the wife cleaned the office, stacked all my cds in a pile, unlabeled ofcourse, hrmm which one is which!
[14:21] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen: no it doesnt ;)
[14:21] <ziroday> tgpraveen: found the related bug
[14:21] <scizzo-> tgpraveen: doesnt that depend on which _version_ of jaunty you install?
[14:21] <CosmiChaos> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ - New notfication in Jaunty
[14:22] <d1g1t> notify-osd doesn't work for me either, unless I kill it once
[14:22] <tgpraveen> CosmiChaos: that is odd .. hmm something is wrong it does come by default do u have all the updates installed?
[14:22] <scizzo-> tgpraveen: wasn't it ubuntu-desktop that it was added to after alpha 5 or something like that
[14:22] <scizzo-> tgpraveen: ?
[14:22] <tgpraveen> scizzo-: am asuuming a fully updated system
[14:22] <CosmiChaos> i havent seen that before
[14:22] <CosmiChaos> this is not default tgpraven
[14:22] <tgpraveen> ziroday: enjoy!
[14:22] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen: New notification work lands in JauntySaturday, February 21st, 2009
[14:23] <tgpraveen> CosmiChaos: if u r not running a fully updated system then update it and most probably all ur problems should go away
[14:23] <CosmiChaos> tgpraveen: im with a fully updated jaunty
[14:23] <unixdawg> ok got it
[14:23] <CosmiChaos> wtf
[14:23] <scizzo-> tgpraveen: yes its a dep in ubuntu-desktop
[14:24] <scizzo-> tgpraveen: apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop
[14:25] <CosmiChaos> scizzo-: tgpraveen: i have ubuntu-desktop not installed because of a gtk-theme engine that requires the metapackage to be uninstalled
[14:25] <tgpraveen> scizzo-: so u mean to say notify-osd isnt installed by default on say the alpha 6 ?
[14:25] <CosmiChaos> anyway i have the notify-osd installed
[14:26] <BUGabundo> scizzo-: apt-cache policy is a bit better and less verbose
[14:26] <scizzo-> tgpraveen: no...I mean the dependency was added to ubuntu-desktop after alpha 4 or alpha 5
[14:26] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: ooo...thanks
[14:26] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: didn't know that one
[14:26] <CosmiChaos> letme first see if reinstalling ubuntu-desktop fix notify-osd
[14:26] <BUGabundo> scizzo-: man apt-cache
[14:27] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: hmmm it does not really list the deps though
[14:27] <BUGabundo> I think ill remove --purge ALL my audio stuff
[14:27] <BUGabundo> and reinstall
[14:27] <BUGabundo> no audio for weeks...
[14:27] <BUGabundo> scizzo-: apt-cache rdependes
[14:27] <tgpraveen> CosmiChaos: so u have manually installed it. then u might search for a post on net which details how to install notify-osd on intrepid
[14:27] <tgpraveen> that might give u something u might hacve missed
[14:27] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: actually I like apt-cache show more
[14:28] <BUGabundo> really?
[14:29] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: right.....ok: apt-cache depends | egrep 'notify-osd'
[14:29] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: that gave a better result
[14:32] <CosmiChaos> I cannot fully install ubuntu-desktop installing of apturl failed
[14:33] <scizzo-> BUGabundo: that was actually what I was looking for
[14:34] <CosmiChaos> Entpacke apturl (aus .../apturl_0.3.2ubuntu2_all.deb) ...dpkg: Ernste Warnung: Dateilisten-Datei des Paketes »apturl« fehlt, nehme an, dass das Paket derzeit keine Dateien installiert hat.
[14:36] <BUGabundo> CosmiChaos: english please
[14:37] <CosmiChaos> BUGabundo: sorry its console output
[15:08] <Beardbar> anyone actuall try a fresh install of alpha6? i keep getting sqaushfhs errors and a bad cd check. burned 3 fresh downloads and cds of the .iso image. kubuntu amd64
[15:11] <BUGabundo> Beardbar: did you check the md5 of the iso?
[15:11] <BUGabundo> or tried to mount it on loop
[15:11] <BUGabundo> and check md5.txt inside?
[15:13] <Beardbar> no i didnt, will do now
[15:20] <BUGabundo> just removed all my audio stuff (alsa and PA). gonna reinstall it again and see if i get sound working
[15:23] <BUGabundo> anything else I need to know?
[15:23] <vbgunz> can someone with the latest konqueror check out this page -> http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Hannity_suggests_Christianity_compatible_with_torture_0311.html
[15:23] <BUGabundo> so that ALL audio stuff goes?
[15:23] <BUGabundo> I'm purging it
[15:24] <vbgunz> I never seen this before *but* konqueror is endlessly looping on it? refresh after refresh. something wrong with the site or konqueror?
[15:24] <makdaknife> Beardbar: I'm running a fresh install of alpha6 in virtualbox and its running fine
[15:24] <vbgunz> I cant stop it either
[15:25] <vbgunz> I can stop it with ESC but I land on a white page
[15:38] <sparr> after pre-configuring the acrobat plugin package SEVENTEEN TIMES it is finally getting installed.  Why does that package preconfigure so long before its installation?
[16:07] <kahrn> Has anyone had any trouble upgrading to alpha 6? (i.e. checkbox and checkbox-gtk being left in a broken state, thus system being left in a broken state)
[16:18] <humbolt1> Why does Ubuntu not copy the partitioning part from Fedoras anaconda installer?
[16:19] <humbolt1> Built in LVM and RAID support would eliminate the need for an -alternate installer image altogether!
[16:19] <humbolt1> Is there a supported method create an USB pen drive install media? There are so many machines out there these days without a cdrom drive!
[16:20] <Pici> humbolt1: Log a brainstorm ticket then.
[16:20] <Pici> !install
[16:20] <humbolt1> Installing FROM USB pendrive should really be a supported installation path!
[16:20] <humbolt1> Pici: will do that!
[16:20] <Pici> Plus this really should be an #ubuntu question
[16:20] <tgpraveen> humbolt1: they are busy improving the timeone selector for jaunty installler that must be more important to them lol
[16:21] <humbolt1> tgpraveen: this is the "what can I do with ubuntu" bullshit animation, right?
[16:21] <Pici> humbolt1: Please watch the language here.
[16:22] <humbolt1> tgpraveen: the new partitioner kinda sucks by the way. The permanent rescanning the disk, stinks.
[16:22] <humbolt1> Pici: did I use the f word?
[16:23] <tgpraveen> no its the new world map in the installer. just makes it easier to select ur location and timezone
[16:23] <humbolt1> tgpraveen: which is not true at all. This thing does not work at all.
[16:23] <humbolt1> tgpraveen: at least, not yet
[16:24] <tgpraveen> humbolt1: i know. btw didnt knw that the new animation had been integrated in the installer
[16:24] <humbolt1> tgpraveen: have not seen it either. but heard about the IDEA
[16:24] <tgpraveen> tell me one thing can we still access our desktop of live cd nd all apps while installation is going on or the animation restricts it
[16:24] <humbolt1> tgpraveen: I'd rather have RAID and LVM support
[16:24] <tgpraveen> humbolt1: ohok
[16:24] <tgpraveen> humbolt1: +1
[16:25] <humbolt1> tgpraveen: +1 has RAID and LVM support?
[16:25] <Eruaran> So... Ubuntu is not perfect... its easy to criticize, and easy to forget the things it does extremely well. Today I installed Ubuntu on a Fujitsu A1110 notebook and it was very impressive... Also was asked to make sure this persons 3 mobile internet dongle worked with it. I just plugged it in and it was correctly recognized straight away, configuration was ridiculously simple and easier for the user to understand than Window
[16:26] <humbolt1> Eruaran: I am not complaining about the OS in general. I am complaining about focusing on non-vital features, while forgetting about the real frontiers.
[16:28] <Pici> humbolt1: Complaining here isn't going to fix anything, submit something to brainstorm, or log a bug if that seems more appropriate.
[16:29] <tgpraveen> humbolt1: i am voting +1 on ur idea of support for RAID
[16:29] <humbolt1> Pici: Actually I did not come here to complain at all. Just to ask, if there is a supported FROM USB install path.
[16:30] <adelie42> What package contains the documents included in the "Example' directory linked in peoples home directory?
[16:30] <Pici> humbolt1: I already gave you a link for that.... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[16:31] <tgpraveen> humbolt1: dont bother brainstorm submiting . devs rarely visit there or dont care. more helpful would be filing a bug.
[16:31] <ikonia> real frontiers.......really
[16:31] <humbolt1> Pici: And didn't I read something about RAID and LVM support on the live cd installer? Is that already in there?
[16:31] <ikonia> humbolt1: the liveCD has raid tools and LVM on it - but what good are they on a liveCD
[16:32] <Pici> humbolt1: Not to my knowledge, but I haven't used the live-cd in quiet a while.
[16:32] <humbolt1> Pici: I have that link already. But that does not work for the -alternate cd.
[16:32] <humbolt1> ikonia: in the installer on the livecd, that I mean!
[16:32] <adelie42> I am really starting to hate brainstorm. It really is beginning to build its own negative thing.
[16:32] <Pici> humbolt1: Please read the entire page
[16:32] <ikonia> humbolt1: that currently does not have raid/lvm support as that is not "common" for a desktop PC
[16:32] <Pici> !offtopic
[16:32] <ikonia> humbolt1: and the livecd is the "Desktop" CD
[16:33] <Pici> This isn't the rant about Ubuntu channel.
[16:33] <humbolt1> ikonia: and there are who knows how many netbooks out there, which have not cdrom drive. You want them to run ubuntu, then provide them an easy way to get there!
[16:33] <DanaG> I tried booting my system from SDHC card.... but usb-creator won't let you deploy to non-usb-based memory cards.
[16:33] <ikonia> humbolt1: netboot is available in all Linux distros
[16:33] <adelie42> I need to file a bug report, but I do not know what package the example documentation is in. Should that just be a general Ubuntu bug?
[16:33] <ikonia> adelie42: launchpad will guide you when logging
[16:34] <ikonia> adelie42: it will get you close - if not the exact package
[16:34] <ikonia> adelie42: what is your bug with  ?
[16:34] <tgpraveen> adelie42: agree brainstorm has become terrible. the new upgrade is not good . usability has decreased imho in the name of simplicfication
[16:34] <humbolt1> ikonia: RAID and LVM are common on Fedora Desktops as it seems.
[16:34] <ikonia> humbolt1: there is no server/desktop install for fedora
[16:34] <tgpraveen> and the worst part is neither the devs respond to the popular posts nor do we knw they even read it
[16:35] <adelie42> Some typos in the documentation. There is a lot of really cool new stuff in the "example" directory, but one of the presentations has some typos
[16:35] <ikonia> tgpraveen: #ubuntu-brainstorm - chat to the admins
[16:35] <charlie-tca> humbolt1: there actually is an easy way to install from USB. Just order it from the Ubuntu Store already on a usb drive
[16:35] <tgpraveen> there sohould be a rule that devs have to reply to a brainstorm idea if it gets x votes
[16:35] <ikonia> tgpraveen: brainstorm is nothing to do with this channel
[16:35] <ikonia> tgpraveen: talk to the devs/admins in #brainstorm
[16:35] <Pici> #ubuntu-brainstorm
[16:35] <Pici> iirc.
[16:35] <ikonia> Pici: thank you
[16:36] <Pici> adelie42: Whats the filename for the presentation?
[16:37] <Pici> !info example-content
[16:37] <Pici> adelie42: ^
[16:37] <adelie42> Pici: case_Wellcome.pdf
[16:38] <Pici> adelie42: example-content is the package name
[16:38] <adelie42> thank you
[16:38] <fargiolas> do notify-osd volume and brightness control only work with human theme?
[16:39] <ikonia> fargiolas: nope, I'm using them with an emerald theme here
[16:39] <fargiolas> ikonia: emerald icon theme?
[16:39] <BUGabundo> mine don't work for bright
[16:39] <ikonia> no, emerald desktop theme, my icon theme is ubuntu studio I think
[16:39] <BUGabundo> I am under the impression it used to work on ibex
[16:39] <Pici> notify-osd didn't exist on ibex.
[16:40] <fargiolas> ikonia: probably ubuntu studio icon theme fallbacks to human
[16:40] <ikonia> fargiolas: I'd suggest you check that
[16:40] <fargiolas> I have GNOME and I have no notification for volume and for brightness, neither with tango, while I have them with Human
[16:40] <Pici> bug 331383
[16:43]  * DanaG has volume icons, but not brightness icons.
[16:43] <fargiolas> Pici: thanks
[16:47] <fargiolas> sudo mv /usr/share/notify_osd /usr/share/notify-osd/ solves the issue here, do they even test their changes before to commit them :)?
[16:52] <fargiolas> brightness icons still missing
[16:56] <DanaG> same here.
[16:58] <erle-> which kernel is in jaunty?
[16:58] <erle-> .28 or .29?
[16:59] <charlie-tca> .28
[16:59] <WelshDragon> .28
[16:59] <charlie-tca> According to the release notes
[17:12] <adelie42> If I want to submit a patch to launchpad, do I just need the original unmodified source directory and a patched version then do "diff -r foo-1.0.0 foo-1.0.0-patched > foo-1.0.0.patch" ?
[17:16] <adelie42> do I have that right? I do quite a bit of hobby programming, but I am new to the collaborative environment...
[17:16] <BUGabundo> DanaG: here too
[17:16] <BUGabundo> Linux blubug 2.6.28-9-generic #31-Ubuntu SMP Wed Mar 11 15:43:49 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[17:17] <BUGabundo> erle-:  2.6.28-9
[17:17] <erle-> thank you
[17:17] <erle-> just heard about a new thing in .29:
[17:17] <erle-> energy saving alsa
[17:17] <erle-> not experimental any more
[17:19] <BUGabundo> email the kernel list about it
[17:21] <erle-> no, i think thats not realistic
[17:21] <erle-> for this release
[17:24] <BUGabundo> depends how much it changes
[17:24] <BUGabundo> and getting some one to do a FFe
[17:28] <adelie42> Is there a way to remove comments from launchpad?
[17:29] <slytherin> adelie42: don't think so
[17:29] <BUGabundo> adelie42: if you really need it
[17:30] <BUGabundo> open an answer on LP against LP and an LP admin will hide it
[17:30] <BUGabundo> adelie42: what is it?
[17:30] <adelie42> :( Launchpad and the forums each have some really awesome features that  I REALLY wish they would bring to each other...
[17:30] <adelie42> ok, thanks  :)
[17:35] <BUGabundo> adelie42: can we know what the comment was ?
[17:36] <adelie42> sure, I was just commenting that there was no source package for example-content, and after I commented, I discovered I mistyped 'apt-get source example-content'
[17:37] <adelie42> oh, btw, the source files for example-content are pdf. Is that the closest thing I am going to get to 'source'?
[17:38] <adelie42> I would think it would have a more editable format for fixes
[17:41] <ZeZu> updated day eh ?
[17:41] <ZeZu> will this fix compiz problem?
[17:44] <cwillu> ZeZu, I would imagine the bug page for whatever compiz problem you're having would be a better place to look for information regarding recent updates
[17:45] <BUGabundo> cwillu: so how is uwsu work going?
[17:45] <bobbob1016> Is there any way to take compiz from a jaunty repo while on intrepid?  I want to play with some of the new features.  Not sure if this is a jaunty or intrepid quesion, but figured I'd ask here.
[17:45] <BUGabundo> can I use debian binaries ?
[17:45] <BUGabundo> bobbob1016: what new features??
[17:46] <BUGabundo> I didn't notice anything new
[17:48] <bobbob1016> BUGabundo, I thought jaunty had .8, or .8.2, which had more than .7.8 in intrepid.
[17:48] <BUGabundo> I didn't notice anything new
[17:48] <BUGabundo> cwillu: ping
[17:49] <bobbob1016> BUGabundo, Fusion or just compiz?  Anyways, is it do-able or no?  I figured just changing a repo in my sources list from intrepid to jaunty, upgrade JUST compiz, then change it back to intrepid, but not sure which one, and I didn't want to do all.
[17:50] <d1g1t> https://launchpad.net/~compiz/+archive/ppa
[17:52] <crdlb> bobbob1016: there really isn't anything new
[17:52] <crdlb> in the features department
[17:52] <bobbob1016> crdlb, I thought peek was there, and a few more animations.  Just a junkie trying for a fix I know, but if it ain't broke I need to break it.
[17:52] <crdlb> nope
[17:55] <BUGabundo> bobbob1016: maybe mvo has a PPA with it?
[17:55] <BUGabundo> check is ppa
[17:56] <bobbob1016> BUGabundo, mvo?
[17:56] <bobbob1016> BUGabundo, I was just going to use the ppa d1g1t suggested
[17:58] <mvo> Hm, good idea. I should build 0.8.2 for intrepid as well in the compiz ppa
[17:58] <DanaG> what's new in compiz 0.8 versus previous versions?
[17:58] <DanaG> ... and in 0.8.2?
[17:58] <mvo> faster statup for example :)
[17:58] <DanaG> ah.
[17:58] <DanaG> cool.  Not that I can use it until we get a new fglrx.
[18:01] <BUGabundo> mvo: did ever got the time to fix synaptic order when using the quick search?
[18:01] <cwillu> BUGabundo, I just poked the bug report, nothing more :p
[18:01] <BUGabundo> yeah I saw cwillu
[18:01] <BUGabundo> mvo: bug 252931
[18:02] <BUGabundo> its a really old bug!
[18:19] <ZeZu> maybe i just suck at the search in the bugtracker, but i can't find the bug for missing title bars under compiz to look for any workaround etc
[18:19] <ZeZu> and updates didn't manage to fix it
[18:19] <xtknight> ZeZu, that's usually because you don't have a window manager started, such as emerald or metacity
[18:20] <ZeZu> which is what i said
[18:20] <ZeZu> but someone in here said it was a packaging bug
[18:20] <ZeZu> and to just enable metacity w/o compiz
[18:20] <ZeZu> how can i start a wm underneath it ?
[18:20] <xtknight> it's no packaging bug
[18:20] <xtknight> well
[18:20] <ZeZu> I use linux for development i dont know a ton about X or the WM really
[18:21] <xtknight> so you don't even want compiz in the first place right?
[18:21] <ZeZu> I do
[18:21] <ZeZu> it works fine with it off
[18:21] <xtknight> you can try starting metacity with "metacity --replace" i think
[18:21] <ZeZu> but i'd much rather have compositing enabled
[18:21] <ZeZu> ok
[18:22] <xtknight> and if that doesn't work, install emerald and try running it with "emerald --replace"
[18:22] <ZeZu> hmm
[18:22] <ZeZu> it did work, but it seems it turned off compiz or turned off the visual settings i'm not sure
[18:23] <ZeZu> ie: in appearance it says they are on, but they have no effect now
[18:23] <xtknight> when u ran metacity?
[18:23] <ZeZu> yes
[18:23] <xtknight> ok turn compiz back on and then try emerald instead (and kill metacity)
[18:24] <crdlb> ZeZu: make sure you have 'compiz' installed
[18:24] <vbgunz> just curious. what happened to the grub editor for KDE system settings?
[18:27] <ZeZu> haha
[18:27] <ZeZu> that was indeed the problem
[18:27] <ZeZu> rather compiz was installed but not some of the libraries
[18:27] <xtknight> how did that happen?
[18:28] <xtknight> that's funny tho that suggestion seemed so random and then fixed everything lol
[18:28] <xtknight> but i dont have the problem
[18:29] <ZeZu> yea
[18:29] <ZeZu> very strange
[18:29] <slytherin> xtknight: is emerald even available in repositories now?
[18:29] <ZeZu> it seems so
[18:29] <xtknight> !info emerald jaunty
[18:29] <ZeZu> but it did not work
[18:29] <ZeZu> (emerald)
[18:30] <ZeZu> maybe because compiz wasn't working right
[18:30] <xtknight> well i think emerald and metacity may require the same underlying library
[18:30] <xtknight> now after u installed 'compiz'  i bet emerald will work and imo it's cooler ;)
[18:30] <ZeZu> works now
[18:30] <xtknight> libwindowdecoration or somethi
[18:31] <ZeZu> other than its design, i notice few differences
[18:31] <xtknight> check out the skins in emerald theme manager
[18:31] <xtknight> well not too many by default
[18:32] <ZeZu> ah i hadn't noticed that ;)
[18:32] <crdlb> xtknight: packaging bug :)
[18:32] <ZeZu> yes just one
[18:32] <xtknight> crdlb, haha
[18:32] <xtknight> ya sounds right to me
[18:32] <crdlb> happened a few days ago with the update to 0.8.2
[18:33] <xtknight> lots of themes on gnome-look are .emerald files  http://gnome-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=102&PHPSESSID=06ca61fba11c67263b2add0f5d3827eb
[18:33] <xtknight> i dont know what the fundamental difference is between emerald and metacity i guess but everytime i just used emerald becuz it seemed like the community was focused around it
[18:33] <crdlb> the choice is between emerald and gtk-window-decorator
[18:33] <xtknight> gtk-window-decorator is metacity or no?
[18:34] <crdlb> the latter uses metacity themes (by linking against libmetacity-private)
[18:34] <crdlb> g-w-d is the default decorator on ubuntu
[18:35] <xtknight> ah so metacity itself isnt even the window decorator
[18:35] <eMaX> hello all
[18:35] <eMaX> anyone here has googleearth 5 running on jaunty?
[18:35] <crdlb> no, it's a separate window manager (which like most wms, decorates windows in-process)
[18:39] <xtknight> eMaX, ya install googleearth-package
[18:39] <xtknight> run  "make-googleearth" and then it makes a pkg in the current dir.  then run  sudo dpkg -i google*.deb
[18:39] <xtknight> make-googleearth-package sorry
[19:03] <Kurlon> So, Alpha 5 hangs at boot on my Inspiron 2650, right after Grub loads the kernel.  I can boot using my prior kernel, but then the machine is a bit wonky... nics come up, show packets in and out, but dhcp fails.
[19:04]  * crdlb has one of those :o
[19:04] <crdlb> it's running intrepid though
[19:05] <Kurlon> I just reloaded mine with Intrepid as well
[19:07] <rysiek|pl> hi guys
[19:07] <rysiek|pl> anybody on kubuntu jaunty alpha6 around?
[19:08] <Kurlon> And even more interesting... opening my fonts dir on this windows box whacks out my desktop's fonts... that's a new trick.
[19:08] <Kurlon> I'm going to have to remember that. : )
[19:09] <crdlb> I'll try the alpha 6 livecd on it to see what happens
[19:09] <Kurlon> crdlb: Will your inspiron boot directly from an Ubuntu CD?  Mine's gotten real picky about what it will and won't boot for CDs.
[19:10] <Kurlon> I have to pull the HD and install on a different system as I can't coax it to recognize Ubuntu CDs as bootable.
[19:10] <crdlb> I think it was originally installed as gutsy
[19:10] <crdlb> haven't tried since, I guess
[19:10] <Kurlon> I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya.  If it behaves for you I may try upgrading again.
[19:12] <relik> hello does ubuntu jaunty support full disk encryption?
[19:12] <ZeZu> hmm the makefile for emerald-themes seems to not install them to the correct path for ubuntu
[19:13] <relik> i downloaded it but cant find the option
[19:13] <rysiek|pl> relik: AFAIK the full disk encryption is only available on the alternate install cds
[19:16] <crdlb> yay bittorrent: 1.73MB/s
[19:20] <_Hicham_> Hi All!
[19:20] <_Hicham_> who has tested notify-osd?
[19:22] <_Hicham_> no one is in here
[19:22] <_Hicham_> ?
[19:22] <rysiek|pl> I am, haven't tested, hence no answer from me
[19:22] <Pici> I've used it, but not thoroughly tested it
[19:23] <_Hicham_> is it working at least?
[19:23] <_Hicham_> i tried it on intrepid
[19:23] <_Hicham_> but it was not working
[19:23] <Lounge> okay i just found out why and fixed the problem on why my 2..6.28-9-generic kernel was going into panic on boot up
[19:24] <_Hicham_> what was the pb with ur setup?
[19:24] <Lounge> i did "update-initramfs -c -k 2.6.28-9-generic" and that fixed it
[19:25] <Lounge> i guess it needed to be recreated from scratch
[19:25] <ZeZu> eh it installs theme to /home/$USER/.emerald :|
[19:25] <_Hicham_> how is ur overall experience with Jaunty?
[19:26] <Lounge> is the issue with ext4 zeroing out files after system crashes still being worked on?
[19:27] <rysiek|pl> I am sure it is
[19:27] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: but the problem is not exactly with the filesystem,a ctually
[19:27] <Lounge> rysiek|pl: its a setting right?
[19:28] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: it's a default setting
[19:28] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: thing is, the POSIX specification states that in order to make *sure* that any files are written to the disk, a program needs to do a call to fsync()
[19:29] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: fsync() is very costly, time-wise
[19:29] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: so devs omit the call and expect that everything will *magically* work
[19:29] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: problems show up when the system dies (power failure, kernel panic, whatever)
[19:30] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: and the files are not on the disk (not fsync()ed) but in the disk/fs cache
[19:30] <Lounge> rysiek|pl: aw and fsync is somewhat controversial i guess?
[19:30] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: it's not controversial
[19:30] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: it's very costly
[19:30] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: if one was to call fsync after *every single* write to a file, OS would work an order of magnitude slower
[19:31] <Lounge> okay what should the setting be changed to from the default?
[19:31] <Lounge> it's in fstab right?
[19:31] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: depends what you do and what you expect :)
[19:31] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: not yet, no
[19:31] <Lounge> okay
[19:32] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: a settings flag is being implemented AFAIK, so it's not yet in jaunty
[19:32] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: but the ext4 devs should make it for the beta, probably
[19:32] <Lounge> um i have some quake II style games going on like jedi academy, alien arena, open arena and what not
[19:32] <Lounge> quake III *
[19:32] <rysiek|pl> ?
[19:33] <adelie42> I just finished fixing a few bugs in example-content. The source contains a number of binary files. How do I do a diff that will include the binaries, or do I just upload the whole thing?
[19:33] <Lounge> they seem to function fine but i hear that with nvidea drivers, the sytem can freeze up al though i've never experinced that in jaunty - but should the sytem freeze on ext4...
[19:33] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: it won't "zero your files"
[19:33] <Lounge> some of these games run under wine
[19:34] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: in the worst scenario
[19:34] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: only the changes from the last [max sync delay] will be lost
[19:34] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: the default is 60s for ext4
[19:34] <Lounge> rysiek|pl: that makes things faster?
[19:35] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: a lot; files are written and re-writtenm in memory, which is a few orders of magnitude faster than disk IO
[19:35] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: besides, when you're gaming I don't think you write a lot of important files ;)
[19:36] <Lounge> sorry my smarts aint all there when it comes to files and alocations and all that
[19:37] <Lounge> but i'm glad things are okay
[19:37] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: no problem; I'm playing the smart-ass now, but I've been reading about that just yesterday, so that's just my smart-0assery, actually ;)
[19:37] <Lounge> i almost thought the reason why the latest kernel update was going into panic was because ext4 was nolonger supported lol
[19:38] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: things are not okay, they are actually broken; thing is, the KDE/GNOME/other apps devs need to re-think they're way of using files and the filesystem
[19:38] <Lounge> yes it'll happen just like the economy will get better
[19:38] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: and use some better mechanisms than "a whole lotta small, constantly reqritten files"
[19:39] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: dunno about the economy, but as far as I can tell from my few years worth of observations of the FLOSS community, it *will* happen :)
[19:39] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: simply because it's The Right Thing
[19:39] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: and the FLOSS devs are usually *compelled* to do The Right Thing
[19:39] <Lounge> this kinda reminds me of 64bit vs 32bit processors
[19:39] <rysiek|pl> ?
[19:39] <Lounge> most apps still need to be written fro 64bit
[19:39] <bruce89> GVFS
[19:40] <Lounge> from what i read
[19:40] <bruce89> Lounge: not if they've been written properly
[19:40] <rysiek|pl> bruce89: huh?
[19:40] <rysiek|pl> bruce89: ah, sorry, nvm
[19:40] <bruce89> well, using size_t
[19:41] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: +1 on what bruce_t is saying
[19:41] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: 64bit and 32bit is actually a very similar problem as with ext4 here
[19:41] <rysiek|pl> *bruce89
[19:41]  * bruce89 didn't know that I had a type named after me
[19:42] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: the devs made some assumptions that were not correct for all the platforms
[19:42] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: like an assumption that <some_type> is always, say, 2 bytes long
[19:42] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: or, like an assumption that the filesystem sync delay is always almost instant (ext3 has 5s here)
[19:43] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: those assumptions were made agains the specifications and the fact that not all (processors|filesystems) support those assumptions
[19:43] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: hence problems on some other-than-expected (processors|filesystems) :)
[19:44] <Lounge> okay
[19:44] <bruce89> perhaps non-free things still have assembly though
[19:44] <rysiek|pl> oooh yeah!
[19:45] <rysiek|pl> guess what had the *most* problems (and still has!) with 64bit?
[19:45] <rysiek|pl> closed-source, proprietary apps, drivers and Adobe Flash
[19:45] <bruce89> not much better on 32
[19:46] <rysiek|pl> the way those problems got worked-around by the FLOSS community is simply awesome
[19:47] <Lounge> here's the article i read about ext4 and the zero length issue
[19:47] <Lounge> http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2009/03/12/delayed-allocation-and-the-zero-length-file-problem/
[19:47] <ethana2> so I'm running Jaunty off my 4 GB flash drive
[19:47] <ethana2> keeps saying it's out of space
[19:48] <ethana2> can't install anything, can't uninstall anything, can't activate drivers, can't even run apps half the time
[19:48] <ethana2> anything I can do about this?
[19:48] <ethana2> 4 GB should be enough for it, right?
[19:48] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: first of all make *sure* to disable swap on your flash drive
[19:49] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: flash drives do not like millions of writes per minute, so if you swap out to a flash drive, it will wear off much more quickly than it ought to
[19:50] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: yeah, that's one of the better arts on that
[19:50] <ethana2> rysiek|pl: I just did the 'make USB' thingy in ubuntu
[19:50] <ethana2> I don't know what it does
[19:50] <ethana2> does it do swap?
[19:50] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: dunno, it's actually easy to check
[19:51] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: just boot from your USB-based ubuntu
[19:51] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: fire-up a terminal
[19:51] <ethana2> k
[19:51] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: and run: free -m
[19:51] <ethana2> Swap:         2957          2       2954
[19:51] <rysiek|pl> oops
[19:52] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: so you have almost 3gigs used for swap here
[19:52] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: please run: df -h
[19:52] <ethana2> k
[19:52] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: but paste the output not in the channel!
[19:52] <ethana2> right
[19:52] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: use a pastebin
[19:52] <ethana2> I hope firefox will open...
[19:52] <ethana2> ..nope
[19:53] <ethana2> rysiek|pl: pm okay?
[19:53] <rysiek|pl> ethana2: sure
[19:55] <Lounge> rysiek|pl: there is one more bug i wanted to mention that i'm getting - when i shut the system down, it tends to hang in the middle of teh shutdown process trying to shutdown bluetooth
[19:55] <Lounge> i don't even have the bluetooth service enabled
[19:59] <rysiek|pl> Lounge: dunno, file a bug o launchpad
[20:05] <ethana2> any usb-creator folk in here?
[20:06] <ethana2> I've got jaunty on my flash drive with 2.95 GB of unused space, and writes keep failing because it's 'full'
[20:06] <ethana2> I've disabled swap
[20:08] <mjheagle8> hello.
[20:09] <mjheagle8> anyone here use kubuntu 9.04?
[20:09]  * rysiek|pl tests alpha6
[20:10] <mjheagle8> rysiek|pl: does kubuntu use the new notifications too?
[20:10] <bruce89> thankfully not AFAIK
[20:10] <mjheagle8> you dont like them?
[20:11] <bruce89> I don't that many do
[20:12] <mjheagle8> what do you dislike about it?
[20:12] <erle-> is it a know bug, that the alpha 5 cd can not be used to make bootable usb stick?
[20:12] <mjheagle8> they look nice. and i like the idea that notifications shouldnt be intrusive.
[20:12] <erle-> i dont like the look, too
[20:12] <bruce89> well, they are always one size, they don't queue
[20:13] <bruce89> the icons are too small
[20:13] <erle-> i dont just dislike it, i hate it
[20:13] <bruce89> erle-: same here
[20:13] <mjheagle8> although i wish they still would have buttons.
[20:13] <masu3701> exit
[20:13] <masu3701> exit
[20:13] <masu3701> exit
[20:13] <mjheagle8> i thought they did queue.
[20:13] <mjheagle8> thats probably still in dev.
[20:14] <rysiek|pl> mjheagle8: nope, they use some plasma stuff
[20:14] <rysiek|pl> masu3701: "/exit", maybe? :)
[20:14] <mjheagle8> i dont use kde right now.
[20:14] <mjheagle8> i'm currently running ubuntu 8.10
[20:14]  * bruce89 uses gnome-{italian_name}-session
[20:15] <mjheagle8> so i know what's going on, but i'm not familiar with all kde's functioning. i have used it before.
[20:17] <mjheagle8> rysiek|pl: what do you mean, they use some plasma stuff?
[20:18] <rysiek|pl> mjheagle8: I mean, there are notifications in kubuntu and they seem to be handled by some plasma stuff, i.e. some plasma widgets or whatever
[20:18] <adelie42> If I have submitted a bug fix to launchpad, do I change the status to "in progress"?
[20:18] <mjheagle8> rysiek|pl: ah, okay. do you know if they plan on moving the new notifications cross platform?
[20:18] <rysiek|pl> adelie42: are you able to? are you this bugs maintainer?
[20:19] <rysiek|pl> mjheagle8: who knows? no idea. but I do not see the need for that
[20:19] <bruce89> mjheagle8: that is a long-term plan I hea
[20:19] <rysiek|pl> mjheagle8: rather, they should implement those *ideas* the plasma-way
[20:19] <bruce89> but I hope they will drop them completely
[20:19] <adelie42> there is no maintainer. they were several wishlist / low priority fixes
[20:19] <rysiek|pl> adelie42: are you able to change this in this bug?
[20:20] <adelie42> rysiek|pl: It will let me change the status
[20:20] <rysiek|pl> adelie42: if so, why not? I suppose if you do something wrong, somebody will correct you
[20:20] <adelie42> rysiek|pl: sounds good. thanks
[20:21] <rysiek|pl> no prob
[20:22] <mjheagle8> so what's new in the kubuntu 9.04?
[20:22] <mjheagle8> i'm keeping up with gnome. but not too much kde.
[20:22] <mjheagle8> :P
[20:23] <rysiek|pl> read the changelog or release notes then, plese ;)
[20:24] <bruce89> mjheagle8: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/Alpha2/Kubuntu etc.
[20:26] <mjheagle8> bruce89: you like the improvements yourself?
[20:26] <mjheagle8> bruce89: what do you think of them?
[20:26] <bruce89> mjheagle8: I don't use KDE
[20:27] <mjheagle8> bruce89: oh, nvm then.
[20:27] <bruce89> but the use of PackageKit is nice
[20:27] <mjheagle8> bruce89: are you the bruce from the forums that does all the conky stuff.
[20:27] <mjheagle8> ?
[20:28] <bruce89> I'm bruce89 on the forums too
[20:28] <rysiek|pl> bruce89: +1 on KPackageKit, nice work of the devs there, true
[20:28] <bruce89> if only the GNOME lot got their act together
[20:29] <bruce89> still using the old GDM and the old g-p-m
[20:29] <dtchen> martin already has the necessary devicekit and new gpm in universe
[20:29] <bruce89> dtchen: yup, I've got the PPA pacakges
[20:31] <mjheagle8> why isnt gnome using packagekit as well?
[20:31] <rysiek|pl> oh! Shiretoko in the jaunty repos! /me loves
[20:34] <mjheagle8> why isnt gnome using packagekit as well?
[20:34] <bruce89> mjheagle8: I think there's a standoff (not in the rugby sense)
[20:35] <mjheagle8> bruce89: why? i though that packagekit is plain better?
[20:35] <bruce89> Ubuntu claim it is flawed Fedora-centric stuff
[20:35] <bruce89> Ubuntu claim it is flawed Fedora-centric stuff
[20:35] <bruce89> oops; which is a bit mad IMO
[20:36] <bruce89> doesn't handle debconf
[20:38] <bruce89> actually, Nautilus has PackageKit support, which fails currently
[20:44] <mjheagle8> oh.
[21:09] <billisnice> if you update jaunty will it automatically update to alpha 6? Or do i need to install the .iso?
[21:09] <bruce89> there is no such thing as an alpha as such
[21:10] <bruce89> it's just a tagged selection of packages
[21:10] <billisnice> so, i do not need to reinstall to get alpha 6?
[21:11] <bruce89> no
[21:11] <billisnice> good
[21:11] <billisnice> thanks
[21:32] <tom_eats_lives> Just updated have to problems, 1 , when i start i get an endless loop of nautilus windows that pop up , 2 ; Update manager complains about checkbox , checkbox-gtk not being instaleld
[21:33] <billisnice> where are the control for the notification loacated?
[21:36] <bruce89> billisnice: there aren't any
[21:39] <billisnice> will there be some in the final release?
[21:39] <tom_eats_lives> !ext 4
[21:39] <bruce89> billisnice: probably not
[21:40] <tom_eats_lives> !ext4
[21:42] <tom_eats_lives> !Ext4
[21:42] <tom_eats_lives> !Ext 4
[21:44] <blueyed> anyone having "mouse+keyboard pauses" after locking the desktop (or DPMS?!) - using Kubuntu here.
[22:00] <adelie42> grrr.... this is frustrating. So I got the source for example-content and fixed a bunch of bugs / issues. I did a diff -r and submitted a patch to launchpad. Looking, I am thinking I should have used bzr to make / submit the patch, so I follow the directions at http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html, but it appears that a LOT is different. Can someone explain how I am supposed to be doing this?
[22:03] <bruce89> adelie42: diff doesn't work on binary files
[22:03] <adelie42> use -a switch
[22:04] <adelie42> real question, why would the bzr version be dramatically different from the jaunty apt-get source version
[22:06] <virtuelv> Hm, me reads bug 332945
[22:06] <adelie42> launchpad
[22:06] <peepsalot> is Jaunty planned to be LTS?
[22:06] <adelie42> just using the web site
[22:07] <virtuelv> peepsalot: afaik, no
[22:07] <peepsalot> ok
[22:07] <adelie42> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/example-content/+bug/342362
[22:08] <virtuelv> peepsalot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
[22:08] <bruce89> peepsalot: every 4th will be AFAIK
[22:08] <virtuelv> my guess is that 10.04 will be LTS
[22:09] <peepsalot> virtuelv, yeah i read that page, it doesn't say anything about what the next LTS is
[22:10] <bruce89> adelie42: the source would have been useful there
[22:10] <bruce89> LaTeX or something
[22:11] <adelie42> bruce89: ??
[22:11] <bruce89> instead of having to edit some PDF directly
[22:15] <lenios> hi everyone
[22:16] <TuTUXG> the rt kernel (2.6.28-2-rt) failed to build nvidia driver
[22:19] <tom_eats_lives> Get endless loop of nautilus windows. any help suggestions ? thanks
[22:27] <DrHalan> can gedit highlight GLSL somehow?
[22:28] <bruce89> DrHalan: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=300162
[22:29] <DrHalan> thank bruce89
[22:29] <bruce89> np
[22:29] <DrHalan> btw weren't you one of teh guys saying xorg-radeon wouldn't improve in terms of speed?
[22:30] <bruce89> nope
[22:30] <d-b> the radeon seems faster to me ^^
[22:30] <DrHalan> hehe thats what i wanted to say
[22:30] <DrHalan> it speeded up a lot :)
[22:31] <DrHalan> bruce89: where do i have to put those .lang files? somewhoer ein /usr/share/gedit-2 i guess?
[22:32] <bruce89> DrHalan: it won't work any more I'm afraid, thanks to a rewrite
[22:32] <DrHalan> lame :P
[22:35] <bruce89> DrHalan: I suppose if you felt like it, you could port it to the 2.0 syntax - http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtksourceview/unstable/lang-reference.html
[22:35] <DrHalan> i guess i will
[22:35] <DrHalan> but first ill file a bug on launchpad
[23:47] <vbabiy> Hey will ffmepg be used in the new totem movie player in 8.10
[23:47] <vbabiy> if so will this fix 1080p videos?
[23:48] <vbabiy> I mean ffmepg 0.5
[23:49] <bruce89> ffmpeg 0.5 isn't there AFAIK
[23:50] <bruce89> also, Totem uses GStreamer
[23:51] <theholyduck> vbabiy, but really. you're better off using something like mplayer
[23:51] <theholyduck> totem and gstreamer are both pretty slow
[23:52] <bruce89> not again
[23:52] <theholyduck> just a comment
[23:52] <theholyduck> :D
[23:53] <bruce89> I suppose I harp on about notify-osd, carry on